July 10, 2025 • 38 mins
This week, we are bringing to you a special episode of Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freleng featuring Selma Butler. Maggie has returned to share this remarkable story with you, and to set the stage for another special announcement next week alongside Pulitzer Prize-winning author and creator of the Bone Valley podcast, Gilbert King. So please make sure and check in next Wednesday, July 16th.
On November 13, 1995, Angela Young was stabbed to death in her apartment which was located in a building that was controlled by the Gangster Disciples in Chicago, IL. Within weeks, teenagers Selma Butler and Gino Wilson were charged with the murder—despite the shaky testimony of a single 14-year-old witness. Gino was acquitted, the witness recanted, yet Selma was sentenced to 50 years in prison.
In this episode, Maggie talks with Selma Butler and Ashley Cohen, Managing Partner at Bonjean Law Group and founder of ABC Reentry, a nonprofit helping people rebuild their lives after incarceration.
To learn more and get involved, visit:
Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freleng is a production of Lava for Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1.
We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, y'all, it's Maggie today. I'm sharing an interview I
did last year, but we chose to hold off on
releasing it. At the time, Selma Butler was working on
his post conviction relief, so we didn't want to risk
slowing down his pursuit of justice in the courts. But sadly,
despite strong evidence of his innocence, Selma's request for post
(00:20):
conviction relief has been denied. Now, for the second time,
he has to go before the Illinois Appellet Court to
continue his fight. Selma's story is a painful reminder of
how our justice system can fail and how easily innocent
people can pay the price, how easy it is to
lock someone up and how hard it is to get
(00:42):
them out. I also want you to be the first
to hear that next week, I'll be making a very
big announcement. My LoVa for Good colleague Gilbert King will
be joining me to discuss something I've been working on
for two years. It'll be coming out in the Bone
Valley Feed very soon, so stay tuned for that. In
(01:05):
November of nineteen ninety five, the body of thirty four
year old Angela Young was found in her thirteenth floor apartment.
She had been stabbed over sixty times. Angela lived in
the Chicago Projects in a building that was said to
be ruled by the notorious gangster Disciples. Rumor had it
that she was holding drugs for someone in the gang,
(01:27):
and that she had been killed in a drug related dispute.
Seventeen year old Salma Butler, who lived three floors below,
saw the police and sirens outside that day.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I could remember the day they found her body. It's
the project building, so everybody want to know what happened.
You know, someone was killed in the building.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
A few weeks later, Selma was picked up and arrested
for Angela's murder based on a statement that police had
taken from another teenaged boy during an unrelated interrogation.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
When we got in the car, the detective reached back
and grabbed my neck and he choked me out and
like spit on me and told me I did it,
andthing like he really spit in my face. My name
is Selma Butler. I was wrongfully convicted in nineteen ninety
five and I served twenty five years for a crime
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Commit from LoVa for good. This is wrongful conviction with
Maggie Freeling today.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Selma Butler, Yeah, I grew up in Chicago in the projects,
the Robbert Taylor Projects.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Selma Butler was born in nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
My mom's passed away when I was thirteen, and my
father was incocrated, basically my entire He went to prison
when I was five, so he did the maximum of
like thirty.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Did you have any kind of relationship with him?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah? When I was younger, he used to like for
Christmas and toy cars and stuff and write letters and
things of that nature.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Did Sema had two older sisters. He was closest to
his sister, Lakeisha, who was two years older than him.
So what was growing up like where you grew up?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
What did you guys do? What was life like?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
It was fun, you know if he was in a project,
you know, you had all your friends and things like that,
so it wouldn't as hardsh as you would think it
would be. You know, by was living in the ghetto.
You know, it was loving in the household.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
But gangs and gang violence were all around him. By
the time he reached first grade, Selma had already seen
his first shooting.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Like I seen him they shot the garbage man, like
the guy to get the trash. And in that day,
I was probably like six or seven somewhere as they
shot like five six people out there that day, you know.
So and I was on the basketball court and I
seen it, you know what I mean. So you see
it like every day.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Were you scared? Is that scary to grow up like that?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah? Yeah, it's real scary, you know, because I have
seen guys like come down from school and the guy
was like just dead out on the bench in front
of the building.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Were you worried something could happen to you?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Always? Really always, you know, not just me and my sisters,
you know, my family, friends, everybody's life. It's just not mine,
you know. And then I chose not to be part
of a game, even though like they automatically put all
us in the gang, right right, you know what I mean.
(04:48):
So it don't really matter if you're not in the gang.
Is in the game when the police gonna see you
in the gang anyway, depending on where you live, you know, sure,
you always find yourself at a disadvantage.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
You know, as kids, you have run ins with the
law and stuff like that. Not just like I'm a
saying to anything, you know, and I think it's in trouble.
Not no murderer, But I got in some trouble.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Despite getting into some trouble now and then, Selma resisted
the gang life. He had other ambitions, a rite.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I'm a writer. I didn't have any really hopes and
dreams like that because I really didn't have a good
foundation or direction on where I was going in life,
you know. I mean, I know, I enjoyed school, so
I went to school and things like that. I would
have loved to go to college, you know, like and
be something in life, you know, but I didn't, unfortunately,
(05:43):
get the opportunity to, you know, yeah, figure out like
how great I could be out here.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know. When he was thirteen, Selma's mother died suddenly
from a brain aneurysm. After that, he went to stay
with his aunt and one of the other buildings in
the project on the tenth floor of forty three thirty
one South Federal. That's where he met Gino Wilson.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I love sports. I played basketball, baseball, and I met
Geno in a basketball court. He's really good at basketball.
So we met each other, Like through sports, what.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Do you remember about him being good at basketball. I
don't play basketball, So what does that mean now?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That dude co that dude is that a dude coat?
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Sa'ma butler. He lived in a community in Bronsville, Chicago, Illinois,
in a public housing authority Robert Taylor Holmes. It was
like a known area.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
This is Ashley Cohen, partner at the Bonjean Law Group.
She and Jennifer Bonjean have represented Selma on his post
conviction proceedings since twenty sixteen.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
And there were four or five separate project buildings. Each
one of them was associated with a different gang. Basically
the building that he was in, the specific one was
allegedly run by the gangster Disciples at the time. And
if you think about it, it's a huge building. It's
a housing project. It's has sixteen floors, there's ten apartments
(07:11):
on each floor. It's a massive building.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
When Selma was seventeen and Gino was fifteen, something happened
in that building that would change both of their lives.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
On November thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, Angela Young is found
stabbed to death in her apartment. She has sixty five
stab wounds. The Medical Examiner opine that the wounds appeared
to have been caused by either a scissor or another
instrument with multiple blades.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
After Angela's body was found, the police were called. The
first person to speak with them was a neighbor by
the name of Hope Miller.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
And according to her, she saw an unidentified male come
down the stairs and say there's a woman dead in
that apartment, and then she goes up with a fella
by the name of Andre Parks. They find her, and
then the police are called and they examined the scene.
(08:19):
The apartment was basically a disaster. A female black wig
was found by the front door. She was found in
the back bedroom. There's blood on the stove in the
front She's sitting in a pool of blood. There's blood
on the walls.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I can remember the day they found her body because
you know, it's the Project building, so everybody want to
know what happened. You know, someone's killed in the building,
you know, because I could recall like coming out the
house and looking off the porch and seeing all the
police cars down there and things like that, and I
can recall I was I stayed ten o three. Miss
(09:07):
Young stayed three floors above being thirteen oh one, everybody
knew everybody in up building. That's how I knew Miss Young.
I knew her daughters. Her daughter Shamiko was our age
and she was pretty. So Gino liked her, so you know,
so you know, he like so, yeah, That's how I
knew Miss Young. I never had a conversation with Miss Young,
but I knew her, like you know, how you doing
(09:29):
type of switch, you know.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
And then the investigation ensues. But as I know from
doing wrongful conviction work, I never trust what's in police reports,
but it gives a little bit of a framework of
what happened. After they find the body, they interview a
bunch of witnesses. So Gina Wilson was one of the
people that they interviewed. Hoult Miller is one of the
(09:53):
people that they interviewed, and Andre Parks is another one
that they interviewed. And Gino in his his original interview
to the police, if you believe it, he basically says
that he went up to the apartment and that he
had been dating one of Angela's daughters and was going
(10:13):
up to the apartment to go to see his girlfriend
and he discovers the body. The police kind of ran
with that.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
S almost says he hadn't been anywhere near the apartment,
but somehow, during an entirely separate police interrogation on a
different matter, his name got pulled into the case.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
The Area One detectives claimed that two teenagers, Earl Gilmore,
who was fourteen years old at the time but he
was in seventh grade or sixth grade, and Antonio Thomas,
who is sixteen years old. They were both in custody
for unrelated charges. Apparently Earl Gilmour was violating a curfew
(10:55):
because you know, you just lock people up for violating
their curfew back then. So detectives have two teenagers in
custody who they know don't have parents present, are underage,
easily coursed, easily manipulated, and basically they tell them somebody died,
and you're going to tell us who did it, and
(11:16):
you're going to tell us the story of what happened.
According to the police, they volunteered that they were present
for the murder of young and that they did it
with Gina Wilson and Selma Butler. There's this story that
Angela basically was holding marijuana in her apartment for Gina
(11:36):
Wilson and Selma Butler. And the reason that they killed
her was because they discovered that three bags of marijuana
was missing from the stash that she was holding. So naturally,
three bags of marijuana equates to sixty six stab wounds.
And that's how they kind of get their narrative.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And did you know, Gilmore didn't know.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Gilmore didn't know Antonio Thomas never hung out with him
or nothing. He was in the sixth grade. I was
a junior, you know, so he was a little kid.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
On November thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, Earl Gilmore testified before
a grand jury that he had seen Selma and Gino
punch and stab angela young in her bedroom. Earl was
fourteen years old. There was no adult present while he
was being questioned by police, and he was not allowed
to leave police custody until he had given testimony. A
(12:28):
few days later, Selma and Gino were both arrested and
charged with first degree murder.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I was took it to the police station and they
just set me in a room for a long time.
When I officer finally came in, I can't recall his
name or whatever, he explained why I was there. Saying
that my name came up in a murder. They said,
I killed my young whatever the case may be like,
And I explained to him, like, yo, I could I
kill someone. I got on the same clothes I had
on yesterday, you know, Like I got on the same clothes,
(12:58):
so I would just you know, I couldn't, you know.
So I asked for a polygraph test, and they took
me to take a polygraph test, and we came back.
They never gave me the results. But when we got
in the car, the detective reached back and grabbed my
neck and he choked me out and like spit on
me and told me I did it, and things like
he really spit in my face.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
You were seventeen? Did you have an attorney with you?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I did?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Did you know you could?
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Nah?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Not really nine?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So they didn't tell you you had to write to
an attorney.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
No, not that I can recall. I was sent to
the county jail at the time I was seventeen. I
was five feet ninety pounds. I mean I was placed
in the county jail and that was the head.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.
You can listen to this and all the Lava for
Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing
to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. In June
(14:21):
of nineteen ninety eight, Gino Wilson and Selma Butler both
went to trial separately before Judge Joseph Urso.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Gino goes to trial first, he chooses to have a
bench trial before Judge Urso and he's acquitted. A trial
Judge Ursau finds him not guilty. So my client then
goes to trial.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
How come you opted for a bench trial?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
My attorney, he made ee made the suggested because Gino
Wilson was acquitted. So he was like, well, if Gino
Wilson was acquitted, we have the same opportunities would have
bench draped.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So when you're at trial, did you think everything was
going okay? Did you think it was going to wind
up the same as Geno's and you'd be acquitted.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yes, ma'am, I did. Once they realized that he didn't
do it, then I figured like, uh, they don't realize
I didn't do it as well. That was the case.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
The trial was appalling, So George Grizzecca represented my client,
Sama Butler and Joe mcgattz prosecuted my client. He waves
opening arguments. Selma's attorney waves opening arguments, and there was
a total of five witnesses. The trial lasted maybe all
(15:43):
of forty five minutes. There were a total of thirteen
questions asked by Selma's attorney to all of the witnesses.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I've never been to trial, you know, so I figured
this hat trial. Go somebody, you know, And then I
thought he did a good job. I didn't know better.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Earl Gilmore was brought in to testify for the prosecution.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Like I prayed to God that Gilmore come to court
and tell the truth, which he did.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So I was hopeful.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I was afraid, but I was hopeful as well, you know.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Earl Gilmore gets on the stand and then Earl begins
his testimony by saying that whoever brought him over to
the grand jury basically said go along with everything they
tell you, and that's why he did.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Remember while he was being held in police custody, Earl
testified before the grand jury that Selma and Gino had
killed Angela. When he appeared at Thoma's trial two and
a half years later, Earl tried his best to walk
back his previous testimony.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
He actually, to his credit Dawes say, he says, when
I was taken to the police station, I didn't know
what I was taken there for while we got you.
Now we're going to charge you with this case if
you don't go along with what we tell you.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
But despite his recantation, the prosecution was still able to
admit Earl's initial grand jury statement as evidence.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
And how they present this is they say, you know,
did you take an oath to tell the truth before
you testified? And he says yes. And when you testified
before the grand jury, you were asked the following questions
and did you give the following answers?
Speaker 3 (17:22):
So they basically put.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
Him in a scenario where he has to say, yes,
I did give those answers. They're putting him in a
perjury trap because if he says anything other than that,
he can be charged with perjury for lying to the
grand jury. Then they continue asking him questions or you
asked this question, did you give this answer? And he
says yes, I was forced, Yes, I was forced, And
(17:45):
that's kind of how the narrative. But they get in
the substance of the grand jury testimony, and that's the
evidence that was ultimately used to convict Selma.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
On October twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, less than an
hour after the trial started, Judge Urso found Selma guilty
of first degree murder. He was sentenced to fifty years
in prison.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I'm being more often in cost ready for a crab.
I didn't commit No, I was, I was hurt.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I cried, I cried, I cried.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I cried every day I cried.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Do you think, I guess do you think racism played
a part in your case? Just lumping just because you
lived in this building, because of your skin color, they
said you were a gang member and really kind of
just determined your faith that way.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah. I say that in the sense of, like I
probably know hundreds of people in the same situation that
I'm in that's not given the opportunity to talk to you,
but half the same exact situation. You know, Like when
you think about what Joseph mcgatz did, because he was
the state's attorney on this case, and like the little
(19:04):
evidence that he used to convict me, how many other
people was done like this? You know, African American poor
people that couldn't afford attorneys and things like that. You
know how many other people was done like.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
This, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So yeah, race played the part, poverty paid the part.
(19:40):
You know. I was afraid, and then I was really little,
you know, I was a little little. I was only
five feet. I was afraid, you know. You know, then
you're around all these guys that didn't committed crimes and
stuff like that, and murders and things like that, and
you know, you not that guy, you know what I mean,
I'm not that guy that's here tough and all that.
You know. So I was hurt and afraid.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Within a year or so, Selma began studying at the
prison law library in order to appeal his case. His
first appeals in two thousand and two thousand and four
were dismissed, but he kept at it and eventually that
led him to someone who would become very important in
helping him survive life in prison.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I'll never forget is the lady named Miss Flowers, and
she runs the law library. She seen my name, My
name is unique Selma, and she asks me, she said,
do you have a sibling by the name of Selma?
That I said, my father. She said, you know you
work here so the whole time my father worked in
the library.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
So you got to know your dad from inside prison.
That is unusual.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
It was due to the fact I haven't seen him
in so long since I was like five. When I
met him, I was actually impressed on how intelligent he was,
like because he studied law and he didn't help guys
get out of prison and things of that nature. So
he he's a blessing. He was actually myself made for
for quite some time.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Wow, wait, so what was that like?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It was a blessing due to the fact I asked
somebody there that was guiding me and things of that nature.
And then you know, so it's a blessing. It was
a blase, it was. It was horrible. It was with
him still a blessing. You know.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Did he give you advice on, you know, how to
survive in there or anything.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, in the sense, you know, state of yourself, mind,
your business, you know what I mean. You know, go
to school. I went to school, made the President's list
a couple of times in college, you know, so you know,
I mean, you know, no, just put my head down.
It sucked that I was there for something I didn't do,
but I tried to make the best of it.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
You know, did he believe you?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, well he do laws. So he read the case
and knew that I was innocent, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
So, in addition to reconnecting with his father, there was
another family member that helped Selma get through prison.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
I am Linda Butler. I am Selma's niece. I know
him all my life, even though it was of course
telephonically while he was in prison.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Linda is the daughter of Selma's sister, Lakeisha. She was
just a baby when he went to prison, but she
says he's always been a big part of her life.
Lakeisha made sure of that.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
She talked to all of us about it. She's she's
a mother of five, and she just all I remember
is her, you know, supporting him, having to put money
on the phone, to the point where it groomed us
to do the same thing, you know, like this this
has become our norm. We got an uncle in jail
for some he didn't do like this is our norm.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Selma was at the Minard Correctional Center, nearly four hundred
miles from Chicago, so throughout the first decade of Linda's life,
their relationship was only by phone.
Speaker 6 (22:56):
We made the best out of it, you know, as
far as like when he got but of course it
was very limited, you know, like when he called, we'll
try to Oh uncle, can you, you know, help me
write this? Can you you know? Just I just I
think it was hot. I feel like it was heartbreaking.
And I remember when I was seven years old. Well,
(23:16):
I was turning seven, and he was like, I'm gonna
come home for your birthday. I'm coming home for your birthday.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
She was seven years old. I told her she her
birthday was coming, and I told her, well, I'll be.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
On for your birthday.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
And I was like, okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And on the day of her birthday, I called her
to wish happy birthday. She told me out lied.
Speaker 6 (23:32):
To her, and I just remember being heartbroken. I didn't
want to talk to him on the phone, and when
my mom was like, just talk to your uncle, and
he like, he was like, I'm sorry, you know, but
I didn't know any better.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
When Linda was around seven years old, Lakeisha arranged for
the family to visit Selma in prison, and Linda couldn't
wait to finally meet her uncle in person. She remembers
that they had to get up in the middle of
the night to catch the bus.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
And we rode eight hours and they turned us around.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
Why because I think the prison just went on lockdown
and all that. And mind you, my mom and single mom.
So the money that she put into it, she don't
get it back. You know.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Linda and Selma didn't meet face to face until she
was eleven years old.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
Oh my god, we had so much to talk about.
I was able to touch his hand. I was super
excited could in my mind, I literally didn't know that
he had a face like cause all I know, you know,
is him being over the phone. We not have pictures
because he was so young when he was away. So
when I first saw him, he just had this little
(24:42):
smirk on his face, and I'm like, you look like
my mama.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Over the years, throughout his appeals, Linda and Selma remained close.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
She sent me money to send letters that I write
to different attorneys and stuff like that, because it costs
like seven bucks to send out my path. So she
would make sure I have money to send to send
my mail out and stuff like that. And she was young,
she's probably nineteen twenty, you know what I mean. But
she's been there on my entire life, you know, I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
For a time, Linda even worked as a corrections officer.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
You decided to go into.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Corrections, which is interesting because your uncle's in prison.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
So what prompted that? What motivated thought? I don't know.
Speaker 6 (25:25):
I just I guess I was. I wanted to know.
And when I went into correction, I'm like, Oh my god,
this is how my uncle's living. He's caged, this is
his life. Them having to go to bed when they're
being told to go to bed, the stuff they had
to eat, and them not being around their family. It
just gave me a whole outlook on life, like, oh
(25:49):
my god, in the blink of eye anything, So I
got to take life seriously.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Thirteen, with the help of a pro bono attorney, Selma
filed a second motion for DNA testing, which was granted.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I realized DNA was my case couse, miss Young she
had skin ut her and nails. So once I realized that,
I filed for DNA.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
Testing, and then the conviction integrity unit decided to undertake
an investigation into his claims.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Fabio Valatini, he was in chart at the integrity on
it at the time, and he said he wanted to
redo the DNA test because you wanted to cross his
t's and got his eyes. And they gave me a
court date of July twenty eighth. So I'm thinking, I'm
gonna go home. So I gave away all my items,
my food and everything, and my T shirts and stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
But when Selma got to court that day, no one
was there for him, no one from the Conviction Integrity
Unit and no one from his attorney's office.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
And I had to go back to NRC, which is
State Ville, and I was crushed. My soul was crushed.
So I wrote you to court and they told me
my case was off call, which something I never heard of.
So I was in court, but I never had a
court date for like a year.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
At that point. Selma wrote to Bonjen Law Group.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
And we started representing him pro bono in twenty sixteen,
and we basically started from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
And that included reinvestigating the DNA evidence, what there was
of it.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
What's so difficult about a case like Selma's is when
there's no evidence to begin with, it's really hard to
unravel it because there's really no evidence in the first instance.
You know, it's not a cut and dry DNA case.
So you know the DNA evidence, it excluded selma from
two of the bloodstains, but the victim's fingernails had five
(27:55):
male profiles and could have been sixty four percent of
the population, and he was not excluded from that mixture.
And then another stain he was excluded from was the
top kitchen gas range and that was a mixture of
two male profiles and he was excluded from that. The
(28:15):
problem with the DNA and what the CiU ultimately kind
of hung their hat on is like, well, he's not excluded,
so we can't say it's exonerating, right.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Ashley's team also wanted to explore the idea of alternate suspects.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
The three offenders who we believe are the ones who
actually did it. One of them could not be excluded
from the fingernails, and two of them were not excluded
from a stobe sample and a hall sample.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Those three individuals were Maurice Pearson, Ricky Buckley, and Andre Parks,
all known members of the gangster Disciples.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
I mean, had the attorney at the time done any
investigating at all, he would have come up with what
we came up with. Twenty five years later, which was
that everybody in the community knew that Angela was holding
marijuana for Ruler Reese and dre who were Maurice Pearson,
Ricky Buckley and andrake Parks, and that there is evidence
(29:20):
to suggest that they are the true perpetrators.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
When their investigator spoke to Angela Young's daughter, Shamika, the
team learned even more.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Jamika told our investigator that young people used to sell marijuana,
but Ruler Ricky ran the big operation out of the building.
She also said that a woman and a man outside
her building one day after the murder told her that
Reese had killed her mom. Ruler, Reese and Dre went
and watched some of the trial. It just seemed like
they were keeping their presence known to make sure that
(29:53):
nobody snitched. And that's the kind of community that they
lived in. When we got the file, there was a
report in there that said that someone called the police
to report that Maurice Pearson was responsible for Young's murder.
There's a report that shows he was picked up, there
was no questioning, and he was ultimately released. That report
(30:14):
was not in the public defenders fat and as the
appellate court even said in their decision. The Pearson report
gives the distinct impression that more information was not available
because the police did not want to find it. And
we've seen this in other cases. It wasn't uncommon for
there to be some sort of relationship with police officers,
like you scratch my back, eye, scratch yours. You know,
(30:36):
whoever had the connection to the police officers were like,
you're going to cover me on this, and we're going
to frame these other kids because I'm not going to
prison for this. And that's just how it shook out.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
In twenty eighteen, the Bonjin Group filed a post conviction
petition based on newly discovered evidence of innocence and ineffective
assistance of counsel. In March of twenty twenty two, Jennifer
Bonjing argued Selma's case before the Appellate Court. Justice is
Nathaniel House, Cynthia Cobbs, and Terrence Lanvin, who is.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
The attorney who's going to make a presentation for the
appellant today.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Good morning, your honor, Jennifer Bonjing on behalf.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Of mister Butler.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Thanks, I mean, I just listened to the oral argument again.
The Appellate Corps, especially Justice Labin was appalled by this trial.
Speaker 7 (31:32):
Yeah, and trying to compare with this is one of
the more unusual cases that I've ever dealt with in
my thirteen years in the appellate court. Here, but we
have two defendants co defendants who were tried in bench
trials in front of the same judge. The first guy
gets off, the second guy gets fifty years.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Jennifer Bonjing went on to explain that much of the
state's case against Selma hinged on the coorst grand jury
testimony of fourteen years old Earl Gilmore and.
Speaker 7 (32:03):
At the trial of mister Butler, his public defender, who
by all accounts was a competent attorney, asked all of
four questions of the police officer who allegedly took this statement,
a statement that was never memorialized, wasn't signed off on,
wasn't written, wasn't recorded.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Nothing that's right, you're right, your honor, and there was
just no effort to challenge it. And again it is
mind boggling to me. I can only assume that what
happened here is that he assumed and not guilty. But
you can't make those types of assumptions.
Speaker 7 (32:38):
Why the state, I don't know what the state was
assuming either, because both parties waived opening statement. I've never
seen a record like this wave opening statement. First witnesses,
no questions, no questions, no questions, then four questions. Then
you know, didn't even need a lunch break, and the
case is over. I mean, this entire case is justice delayed?
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Yes, so I side threw my hands up.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
The Illinois Pellet Court ordered the case to Cook County
Circuit Court for an evidentiary hearing. In January of twenty
twenty three, Selma was discharged from prison after receiving day
for day credit for good behavior. He had served twenty
five years of his fifty year sentence.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
Oh my gosh, you come home during a pandemic, like,
what are we gonna do? So I had looked up
some things to do and we ended up doing a
boat ride. Just met him and a couple of my friends.
We finally able to really have some type of memory,
and it, oh my gosh, it was so much fun.
Even when he's on a boat ride, everybody's dancing. He
he just bombed his head, just chilling.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
You know. Once I got off parole and I was
able to travel, I went to my me. Wow, I
rode the jet ski. I got on a parasale. Wow,
I got the helicopter. Was able to helicopter Beyonce house,
Bill Gates house.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
You know, was able to look at their backyards.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
In they pools.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I was able to do, you know, some things that
I'm so you know, I know there's the guys were
things that get better with you know, I've been having
some fun.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
You know, Selma is keeping busy with a cause that
is close to his heart.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I work with the outlet. There's a mentor program. I
get paid to mentor fatherless other age boys from the
age of eight to twenty two. You know. I work
with the parole officers, you know, going to the schools
to speak, teaching positive things about gods, stuff like that.
And then after I leave that job, I go to
another job with maintenance supply and I clean buildings and stuff,
(34:58):
you know, like janitorial work. So that's what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
And there's been another significant change in Selma's life since
he got out of prison.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
A friend of mine told me about a Dayton site.
So I got on the Dayton site and we had
changed not much, and we started speaking and things of
that nature.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
And what's her name?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
That name is Jamila. She's intelligent, you know. Uh, she's
s thoughtful, she's beautiful. The nonprofit organization that I actually
work for, which is the outlet, she the intake coordinator there,
so she's responsible for all the boys that come into
the program just to see someone that gives back and
(35:42):
thoughtful and things of that nature. You know, you like
what I like, so I like you.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Selma and Jamala got married in twenty twenty two. But
even though he served his full sentence, Selma is still
not fully exonerated in the eyes of the law.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
He's trying to make a life for himself.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
He's trying to live and he can't because you know,
he has this looming over him. You know a lot
of people would be like, oh, you're out anyway, what's
the big deal, you know, but it's not about that
for him. He's innocent, and it is a complete travesty
of justice, even justice. Lavin said. The entire case is
(36:22):
justice delayed.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
I have to just be hopeful and just lean on God,
you know, and just get out and do the best
I can. You know, give more to amenity than it
didn't gave.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
To me, you know, and Soma says he's not the
only one who is mistreated by the justice system. He
still thinks about Angela Young and her two daughters, Shamikha
and Nicole.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
They didn't probably investigate her mother's death. I wasn't only wrong,
Miss Young was wrong because they didn't properly investigate her death.
They didn't care about a death. They didn't care about
my wrongful resident. You know what I mean. So at
some point black deaths don't matter, Black lives don't matter.
We don't matter. You know. Everybody that was a partitive
(37:12):
was mistreated. So God's will I do right? I do
right by life.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freelink.
Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the
links in our bio to see how you can help.
I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler,
and Kevin Wurtis, as well as senior producer Annie Chelsea,
producer Kathleen Fink, story editor Hannah Bial and researcher Shelby Sorels.
(37:53):
The show is engineered by Jackie Pauley, with additional production
by Jeff Cliburn and Connor Hall. The music in this
production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms
at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can
also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful
(38:14):
Conviction with Maggie Freeling is the production of Lava for
Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
Hey, y'all, it's Maggie today. I'm sharing an interview I
did last year, but we chose to hold off on
releasing it. At the time, Selma Butler was working on
his post conviction relief, so we didn't want to risk
slowing down his pursuit of justice in the courts. But sadly,
despite strong evidence of his innocence, Selma's request for post
(00:20):
conviction relief has been denied. Now, for the second time,
he has to go before the Illinois Appellet Court to
continue his fight. Selma's story is a painful reminder of
how our justice system can fail and how easily innocent
people can pay the price, how easy it is to
lock someone up and how hard it is to get
(00:42):
them out. I also want you to be the first
to hear that next week, I'll be making a very
big announcement. My LoVa for Good colleague Gilbert King will
be joining me to discuss something I've been working on
for two years. It'll be coming out in the Bone
Valley Feed very soon, so stay tuned for that. In
(01:05):
November of nineteen ninety five, the body of thirty four
year old Angela Young was found in her thirteenth floor apartment.
She had been stabbed over sixty times. Angela lived in
the Chicago Projects in a building that was said to
be ruled by the notorious gangster Disciples. Rumor had it
that she was holding drugs for someone in the gang,
(01:27):
and that she had been killed in a drug related dispute.
Seventeen year old Salma Butler, who lived three floors below,
saw the police and sirens outside that day.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I could remember the day they found her body. It's
the project building, so everybody want to know what happened.
You know, someone was killed in the building.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
A few weeks later, Selma was picked up and arrested
for Angela's murder based on a statement that police had
taken from another teenaged boy during an unrelated interrogation.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
When we got in the car, the detective reached back
and grabbed my neck and he choked me out and
like spit on me and told me I did it,
andthing like he really spit in my face. My name
is Selma Butler. I was wrongfully convicted in nineteen ninety
five and I served twenty five years for a crime
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Commit from LoVa for good. This is wrongful conviction with
Maggie Freeling today.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Selma Butler, Yeah, I grew up in Chicago in the projects,
the Robbert Taylor Projects.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Selma Butler was born in nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
My mom's passed away when I was thirteen, and my
father was incocrated, basically my entire He went to prison
when I was five, so he did the maximum of
like thirty.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Did you have any kind of relationship with him?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah? When I was younger, he used to like for
Christmas and toy cars and stuff and write letters and
things of that nature.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Did Sema had two older sisters. He was closest to
his sister, Lakeisha, who was two years older than him.
So what was growing up like where you grew up?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
What did you guys do? What was life like?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
It was fun, you know if he was in a project,
you know, you had all your friends and things like that,
so it wouldn't as hardsh as you would think it
would be. You know, by was living in the ghetto.
You know, it was loving in the household.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
But gangs and gang violence were all around him. By
the time he reached first grade, Selma had already seen
his first shooting.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Like I seen him they shot the garbage man, like
the guy to get the trash. And in that day,
I was probably like six or seven somewhere as they
shot like five six people out there that day, you know.
So and I was on the basketball court and I
seen it, you know what I mean. So you see
it like every day.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Were you scared? Is that scary to grow up like that?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah? Yeah, it's real scary, you know, because I have
seen guys like come down from school and the guy
was like just dead out on the bench in front
of the building.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Were you worried something could happen to you?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Always? Really always, you know, not just me and my sisters,
you know, my family, friends, everybody's life. It's just not mine,
you know. And then I chose not to be part
of a game, even though like they automatically put all
us in the gang, right right, you know what I mean.
(04:48):
So it don't really matter if you're not in the gang.
Is in the game when the police gonna see you
in the gang anyway, depending on where you live, you know, sure,
you always find yourself at a disadvantage.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
You know, as kids, you have run ins with the
law and stuff like that. Not just like I'm a
saying to anything, you know, and I think it's in trouble.
Not no murderer, But I got in some trouble.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Despite getting into some trouble now and then, Selma resisted
the gang life. He had other ambitions, a rite.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I'm a writer. I didn't have any really hopes and
dreams like that because I really didn't have a good
foundation or direction on where I was going in life,
you know. I mean, I know, I enjoyed school, so
I went to school and things like that. I would
have loved to go to college, you know, like and
be something in life, you know, but I didn't, unfortunately,
(05:43):
get the opportunity to, you know, yeah, figure out like
how great I could be out here.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know. When he was thirteen, Selma's mother died suddenly
from a brain aneurysm. After that, he went to stay
with his aunt and one of the other buildings in
the project on the tenth floor of forty three thirty
one South Federal. That's where he met Gino Wilson.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I love sports. I played basketball, baseball, and I met
Geno in a basketball court. He's really good at basketball.
So we met each other, Like through sports, what.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Do you remember about him being good at basketball. I
don't play basketball, So what does that mean now?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That dude co that dude is that a dude coat?
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Sa'ma butler. He lived in a community in Bronsville, Chicago, Illinois,
in a public housing authority Robert Taylor Holmes. It was
like a known area.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
This is Ashley Cohen, partner at the Bonjean Law Group.
She and Jennifer Bonjean have represented Selma on his post
conviction proceedings since twenty sixteen.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
And there were four or five separate project buildings. Each
one of them was associated with a different gang. Basically
the building that he was in, the specific one was
allegedly run by the gangster Disciples at the time. And
if you think about it, it's a huge building. It's
a housing project. It's has sixteen floors, there's ten apartments
(07:11):
on each floor. It's a massive building.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
When Selma was seventeen and Gino was fifteen, something happened
in that building that would change both of their lives.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
On November thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, Angela Young is found
stabbed to death in her apartment. She has sixty five
stab wounds. The Medical Examiner opine that the wounds appeared
to have been caused by either a scissor or another
instrument with multiple blades.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
After Angela's body was found, the police were called. The
first person to speak with them was a neighbor by
the name of Hope Miller.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
And according to her, she saw an unidentified male come
down the stairs and say there's a woman dead in
that apartment, and then she goes up with a fella
by the name of Andre Parks. They find her, and
then the police are called and they examined the scene.
(08:19):
The apartment was basically a disaster. A female black wig
was found by the front door. She was found in
the back bedroom. There's blood on the stove in the
front She's sitting in a pool of blood. There's blood
on the walls.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I can remember the day they found her body because
you know, it's the Project building, so everybody want to
know what happened. You know, someone's killed in the building,
you know, because I could recall like coming out the
house and looking off the porch and seeing all the
police cars down there and things like that, and I
can recall I was I stayed ten o three. Miss
(09:07):
Young stayed three floors above being thirteen oh one, everybody
knew everybody in up building. That's how I knew Miss Young.
I knew her daughters. Her daughter Shamiko was our age
and she was pretty. So Gino liked her, so you know,
so you know, he like so, yeah, That's how I
knew Miss Young. I never had a conversation with Miss Young,
but I knew her, like you know, how you doing
(09:29):
type of switch, you know.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
And then the investigation ensues. But as I know from
doing wrongful conviction work, I never trust what's in police reports,
but it gives a little bit of a framework of
what happened. After they find the body, they interview a
bunch of witnesses. So Gina Wilson was one of the
people that they interviewed. Hoult Miller is one of the
(09:53):
people that they interviewed, and Andre Parks is another one
that they interviewed. And Gino in his his original interview
to the police, if you believe it, he basically says
that he went up to the apartment and that he
had been dating one of Angela's daughters and was going
(10:13):
up to the apartment to go to see his girlfriend
and he discovers the body. The police kind of ran
with that.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
S almost says he hadn't been anywhere near the apartment,
but somehow, during an entirely separate police interrogation on a
different matter, his name got pulled into the case.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
The Area One detectives claimed that two teenagers, Earl Gilmore,
who was fourteen years old at the time but he
was in seventh grade or sixth grade, and Antonio Thomas,
who is sixteen years old. They were both in custody
for unrelated charges. Apparently Earl Gilmour was violating a curfew
(10:55):
because you know, you just lock people up for violating
their curfew back then. So detectives have two teenagers in
custody who they know don't have parents present, are underage,
easily coursed, easily manipulated, and basically they tell them somebody died,
and you're going to tell us who did it, and
(11:16):
you're going to tell us the story of what happened.
According to the police, they volunteered that they were present
for the murder of young and that they did it
with Gina Wilson and Selma Butler. There's this story that
Angela basically was holding marijuana in her apartment for Gina
(11:36):
Wilson and Selma Butler. And the reason that they killed
her was because they discovered that three bags of marijuana
was missing from the stash that she was holding. So naturally,
three bags of marijuana equates to sixty six stab wounds.
And that's how they kind of get their narrative.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And did you know, Gilmore didn't know.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Gilmore didn't know Antonio Thomas never hung out with him
or nothing. He was in the sixth grade. I was
a junior, you know, so he was a little kid.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
On November thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, Earl Gilmore testified before
a grand jury that he had seen Selma and Gino
punch and stab angela young in her bedroom. Earl was
fourteen years old. There was no adult present while he
was being questioned by police, and he was not allowed
to leave police custody until he had given testimony. A
(12:28):
few days later, Selma and Gino were both arrested and
charged with first degree murder.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I was took it to the police station and they
just set me in a room for a long time.
When I officer finally came in, I can't recall his
name or whatever, he explained why I was there. Saying
that my name came up in a murder. They said,
I killed my young whatever the case may be like,
And I explained to him, like, yo, I could I
kill someone. I got on the same clothes I had
on yesterday, you know, Like I got on the same clothes,
(12:58):
so I would just you know, I couldn't, you know.
So I asked for a polygraph test, and they took
me to take a polygraph test, and we came back.
They never gave me the results. But when we got
in the car, the detective reached back and grabbed my
neck and he choked me out and like spit on
me and told me I did it, and things like
he really spit in my face.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
You were seventeen? Did you have an attorney with you?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I did?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Did you know you could?
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Nah?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Not really nine?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So they didn't tell you you had to write to
an attorney.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
No, not that I can recall. I was sent to
the county jail at the time I was seventeen. I
was five feet ninety pounds. I mean I was placed
in the county jail and that was the head.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.
You can listen to this and all the Lava for
Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing
to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. In June
(14:21):
of nineteen ninety eight, Gino Wilson and Selma Butler both
went to trial separately before Judge Joseph Urso.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Gino goes to trial first, he chooses to have a
bench trial before Judge Urso and he's acquitted. A trial
Judge Ursau finds him not guilty. So my client then
goes to trial.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
How come you opted for a bench trial?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
My attorney, he made ee made the suggested because Gino
Wilson was acquitted. So he was like, well, if Gino
Wilson was acquitted, we have the same opportunities would have
bench draped.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So when you're at trial, did you think everything was
going okay? Did you think it was going to wind
up the same as Geno's and you'd be acquitted.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yes, ma'am, I did. Once they realized that he didn't
do it, then I figured like, uh, they don't realize
I didn't do it as well. That was the case.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
The trial was appalling, So George Grizzecca represented my client,
Sama Butler and Joe mcgattz prosecuted my client. He waves
opening arguments. Selma's attorney waves opening arguments, and there was
a total of five witnesses. The trial lasted maybe all
(15:43):
of forty five minutes. There were a total of thirteen
questions asked by Selma's attorney to all of the witnesses.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I've never been to trial, you know, so I figured
this hat trial. Go somebody, you know, And then I
thought he did a good job. I didn't know better.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Earl Gilmore was brought in to testify for the prosecution.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Like I prayed to God that Gilmore come to court
and tell the truth, which he did.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So I was hopeful.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I was afraid, but I was hopeful as well, you know.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Earl Gilmore gets on the stand and then Earl begins
his testimony by saying that whoever brought him over to
the grand jury basically said go along with everything they
tell you, and that's why he did.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Remember while he was being held in police custody, Earl
testified before the grand jury that Selma and Gino had
killed Angela. When he appeared at Thoma's trial two and
a half years later, Earl tried his best to walk
back his previous testimony.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
He actually, to his credit Dawes say, he says, when
I was taken to the police station, I didn't know
what I was taken there for while we got you.
Now we're going to charge you with this case if
you don't go along with what we tell you.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
But despite his recantation, the prosecution was still able to
admit Earl's initial grand jury statement as evidence.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
And how they present this is they say, you know,
did you take an oath to tell the truth before
you testified? And he says yes. And when you testified
before the grand jury, you were asked the following questions
and did you give the following answers?
Speaker 3 (17:22):
So they basically put.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
Him in a scenario where he has to say, yes,
I did give those answers. They're putting him in a
perjury trap because if he says anything other than that,
he can be charged with perjury for lying to the
grand jury. Then they continue asking him questions or you
asked this question, did you give this answer? And he
says yes, I was forced, Yes, I was forced, And
(17:45):
that's kind of how the narrative. But they get in
the substance of the grand jury testimony, and that's the
evidence that was ultimately used to convict Selma.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
On October twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, less than an
hour after the trial started, Judge Urso found Selma guilty
of first degree murder. He was sentenced to fifty years
in prison.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I'm being more often in cost ready for a crab.
I didn't commit No, I was, I was hurt.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I cried, I cried, I cried.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I cried every day I cried.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Do you think, I guess do you think racism played
a part in your case? Just lumping just because you
lived in this building, because of your skin color, they
said you were a gang member and really kind of
just determined your faith that way.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah. I say that in the sense of, like I
probably know hundreds of people in the same situation that
I'm in that's not given the opportunity to talk to you,
but half the same exact situation. You know, Like when
you think about what Joseph mcgatz did, because he was
the state's attorney on this case, and like the little
(19:04):
evidence that he used to convict me, how many other
people was done like this? You know, African American poor
people that couldn't afford attorneys and things like that. You
know how many other people was done like.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
This, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So yeah, race played the part, poverty paid the part.
(19:40):
You know. I was afraid, and then I was really little,
you know, I was a little little. I was only
five feet. I was afraid, you know. You know, then
you're around all these guys that didn't committed crimes and
stuff like that, and murders and things like that, and
you know, you not that guy, you know what I mean,
I'm not that guy that's here tough and all that.
You know. So I was hurt and afraid.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Within a year or so, Selma began studying at the
prison law library in order to appeal his case. His
first appeals in two thousand and two thousand and four
were dismissed, but he kept at it and eventually that
led him to someone who would become very important in
helping him survive life in prison.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I'll never forget is the lady named Miss Flowers, and
she runs the law library. She seen my name, My
name is unique Selma, and she asks me, she said,
do you have a sibling by the name of Selma?
That I said, my father. She said, you know you
work here so the whole time my father worked in
the library.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
So you got to know your dad from inside prison.
That is unusual.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
It was due to the fact I haven't seen him
in so long since I was like five. When I
met him, I was actually impressed on how intelligent he was,
like because he studied law and he didn't help guys
get out of prison and things of that nature. So
he he's a blessing. He was actually myself made for
for quite some time.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Wow, wait, so what was that like?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It was a blessing due to the fact I asked
somebody there that was guiding me and things of that nature.
And then you know, so it's a blessing. It was
a blase, it was. It was horrible. It was with
him still a blessing. You know.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Did he give you advice on, you know, how to
survive in there or anything.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, in the sense, you know, state of yourself, mind,
your business, you know what I mean. You know, go
to school. I went to school, made the President's list
a couple of times in college, you know, so you know,
I mean, you know, no, just put my head down.
It sucked that I was there for something I didn't do,
but I tried to make the best of it.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
You know, did he believe you?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, well he do laws. So he read the case
and knew that I was innocent, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
So, in addition to reconnecting with his father, there was
another family member that helped Selma get through prison.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
I am Linda Butler. I am Selma's niece. I know
him all my life, even though it was of course
telephonically while he was in prison.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Linda is the daughter of Selma's sister, Lakeisha. She was
just a baby when he went to prison, but she
says he's always been a big part of her life.
Lakeisha made sure of that.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
She talked to all of us about it. She's she's
a mother of five, and she just all I remember
is her, you know, supporting him, having to put money
on the phone, to the point where it groomed us
to do the same thing, you know, like this this
has become our norm. We got an uncle in jail
for some he didn't do like this is our norm.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Selma was at the Minard Correctional Center, nearly four hundred
miles from Chicago, so throughout the first decade of Linda's life,
their relationship was only by phone.
Speaker 6 (22:56):
We made the best out of it, you know, as
far as like when he got but of course it
was very limited, you know, like when he called, we'll
try to Oh uncle, can you, you know, help me
write this? Can you you know? Just I just I
think it was hot. I feel like it was heartbreaking.
And I remember when I was seven years old. Well,
(23:16):
I was turning seven, and he was like, I'm gonna
come home for your birthday. I'm coming home for your birthday.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
She was seven years old. I told her she her
birthday was coming, and I told her, well, I'll be.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
On for your birthday.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
And I was like, okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And on the day of her birthday, I called her
to wish happy birthday. She told me out lied.
Speaker 6 (23:32):
To her, and I just remember being heartbroken. I didn't
want to talk to him on the phone, and when
my mom was like, just talk to your uncle, and
he like, he was like, I'm sorry, you know, but
I didn't know any better.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
When Linda was around seven years old, Lakeisha arranged for
the family to visit Selma in prison, and Linda couldn't
wait to finally meet her uncle in person. She remembers
that they had to get up in the middle of
the night to catch the bus.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
And we rode eight hours and they turned us around.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
Why because I think the prison just went on lockdown
and all that. And mind you, my mom and single mom.
So the money that she put into it, she don't
get it back. You know.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Linda and Selma didn't meet face to face until she
was eleven years old.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
Oh my god, we had so much to talk about.
I was able to touch his hand. I was super
excited could in my mind, I literally didn't know that
he had a face like cause all I know, you know,
is him being over the phone. We not have pictures
because he was so young when he was away. So
when I first saw him, he just had this little
(24:42):
smirk on his face, and I'm like, you look like
my mama.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Over the years, throughout his appeals, Linda and Selma remained close.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
She sent me money to send letters that I write
to different attorneys and stuff like that, because it costs
like seven bucks to send out my path. So she
would make sure I have money to send to send
my mail out and stuff like that. And she was young,
she's probably nineteen twenty, you know what I mean. But
she's been there on my entire life, you know, I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
For a time, Linda even worked as a corrections officer.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
You decided to go into.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Corrections, which is interesting because your uncle's in prison.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
So what prompted that? What motivated thought? I don't know.
Speaker 6 (25:25):
I just I guess I was. I wanted to know.
And when I went into correction, I'm like, Oh my god,
this is how my uncle's living. He's caged, this is
his life. Them having to go to bed when they're
being told to go to bed, the stuff they had
to eat, and them not being around their family. It
just gave me a whole outlook on life, like, oh
(25:49):
my god, in the blink of eye anything, So I
got to take life seriously.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Thirteen, with the help of a pro bono attorney, Selma
filed a second motion for DNA testing, which was granted.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I realized DNA was my case couse, miss Young she
had skin ut her and nails. So once I realized that,
I filed for DNA.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
Testing, and then the conviction integrity unit decided to undertake
an investigation into his claims.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Fabio Valatini, he was in chart at the integrity on
it at the time, and he said he wanted to
redo the DNA test because you wanted to cross his
t's and got his eyes. And they gave me a
court date of July twenty eighth. So I'm thinking, I'm
gonna go home. So I gave away all my items,
my food and everything, and my T shirts and stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
But when Selma got to court that day, no one
was there for him, no one from the Conviction Integrity
Unit and no one from his attorney's office.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
And I had to go back to NRC, which is
State Ville, and I was crushed. My soul was crushed.
So I wrote you to court and they told me
my case was off call, which something I never heard of.
So I was in court, but I never had a
court date for like a year.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
At that point. Selma wrote to Bonjen Law Group.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
And we started representing him pro bono in twenty sixteen,
and we basically started from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
And that included reinvestigating the DNA evidence, what there was
of it.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
What's so difficult about a case like Selma's is when
there's no evidence to begin with, it's really hard to
unravel it because there's really no evidence in the first instance.
You know, it's not a cut and dry DNA case.
So you know the DNA evidence, it excluded selma from
two of the bloodstains, but the victim's fingernails had five
(27:55):
male profiles and could have been sixty four percent of
the population, and he was not excluded from that mixture.
And then another stain he was excluded from was the
top kitchen gas range and that was a mixture of
two male profiles and he was excluded from that. The
(28:15):
problem with the DNA and what the CiU ultimately kind
of hung their hat on is like, well, he's not excluded,
so we can't say it's exonerating, right.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Ashley's team also wanted to explore the idea of alternate suspects.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
The three offenders who we believe are the ones who
actually did it. One of them could not be excluded
from the fingernails, and two of them were not excluded
from a stobe sample and a hall sample.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Those three individuals were Maurice Pearson, Ricky Buckley, and Andre Parks,
all known members of the gangster Disciples.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
I mean, had the attorney at the time done any
investigating at all, he would have come up with what
we came up with. Twenty five years later, which was
that everybody in the community knew that Angela was holding
marijuana for Ruler Reese and dre who were Maurice Pearson,
Ricky Buckley and andrake Parks, and that there is evidence
(29:20):
to suggest that they are the true perpetrators.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
When their investigator spoke to Angela Young's daughter, Shamika, the
team learned even more.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Jamika told our investigator that young people used to sell marijuana,
but Ruler Ricky ran the big operation out of the building.
She also said that a woman and a man outside
her building one day after the murder told her that
Reese had killed her mom. Ruler, Reese and Dre went
and watched some of the trial. It just seemed like
they were keeping their presence known to make sure that
(29:53):
nobody snitched. And that's the kind of community that they
lived in. When we got the file, there was a
report in there that said that someone called the police
to report that Maurice Pearson was responsible for Young's murder.
There's a report that shows he was picked up, there
was no questioning, and he was ultimately released. That report
(30:14):
was not in the public defenders fat and as the
appellate court even said in their decision. The Pearson report
gives the distinct impression that more information was not available
because the police did not want to find it. And
we've seen this in other cases. It wasn't uncommon for
there to be some sort of relationship with police officers,
like you scratch my back, eye, scratch yours. You know,
(30:36):
whoever had the connection to the police officers were like,
you're going to cover me on this, and we're going
to frame these other kids because I'm not going to
prison for this. And that's just how it shook out.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
In twenty eighteen, the Bonjin Group filed a post conviction
petition based on newly discovered evidence of innocence and ineffective
assistance of counsel. In March of twenty twenty two, Jennifer
Bonjing argued Selma's case before the Appellate Court. Justice is
Nathaniel House, Cynthia Cobbs, and Terrence Lanvin, who is.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
The attorney who's going to make a presentation for the
appellant today.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Good morning, your honor, Jennifer Bonjing on behalf.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Of mister Butler.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Thanks, I mean, I just listened to the oral argument again.
The Appellate Corps, especially Justice Labin was appalled by this trial.
Speaker 7 (31:32):
Yeah, and trying to compare with this is one of
the more unusual cases that I've ever dealt with in
my thirteen years in the appellate court. Here, but we
have two defendants co defendants who were tried in bench
trials in front of the same judge. The first guy
gets off, the second guy gets fifty years.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Jennifer Bonjing went on to explain that much of the
state's case against Selma hinged on the coorst grand jury
testimony of fourteen years old Earl Gilmore and.
Speaker 7 (32:03):
At the trial of mister Butler, his public defender, who
by all accounts was a competent attorney, asked all of
four questions of the police officer who allegedly took this statement,
a statement that was never memorialized, wasn't signed off on,
wasn't written, wasn't recorded.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Nothing that's right, you're right, your honor, and there was
just no effort to challenge it. And again it is
mind boggling to me. I can only assume that what
happened here is that he assumed and not guilty. But
you can't make those types of assumptions.
Speaker 7 (32:38):
Why the state, I don't know what the state was
assuming either, because both parties waived opening statement. I've never
seen a record like this wave opening statement. First witnesses,
no questions, no questions, no questions, then four questions. Then
you know, didn't even need a lunch break, and the
case is over. I mean, this entire case is justice delayed?
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Yes, so I side threw my hands up.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
The Illinois Pellet Court ordered the case to Cook County
Circuit Court for an evidentiary hearing. In January of twenty
twenty three, Selma was discharged from prison after receiving day
for day credit for good behavior. He had served twenty
five years of his fifty year sentence.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
Oh my gosh, you come home during a pandemic, like,
what are we gonna do? So I had looked up
some things to do and we ended up doing a
boat ride. Just met him and a couple of my friends.
We finally able to really have some type of memory,
and it, oh my gosh, it was so much fun.
Even when he's on a boat ride, everybody's dancing. He
he just bombed his head, just chilling.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
You know. Once I got off parole and I was
able to travel, I went to my me. Wow, I
rode the jet ski. I got on a parasale. Wow,
I got the helicopter. Was able to helicopter Beyonce house,
Bill Gates house.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
You know, was able to look at their backyards.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
In they pools.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I was able to do, you know, some things that
I'm so you know, I know there's the guys were
things that get better with you know, I've been having
some fun.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
You know, Selma is keeping busy with a cause that
is close to his heart.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I work with the outlet. There's a mentor program. I
get paid to mentor fatherless other age boys from the
age of eight to twenty two. You know. I work
with the parole officers, you know, going to the schools
to speak, teaching positive things about gods, stuff like that.
And then after I leave that job, I go to
another job with maintenance supply and I clean buildings and stuff,
(34:58):
you know, like janitorial work. So that's what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
And there's been another significant change in Selma's life since
he got out of prison.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
A friend of mine told me about a Dayton site.
So I got on the Dayton site and we had
changed not much, and we started speaking and things of
that nature.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
And what's her name?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
That name is Jamila. She's intelligent, you know. Uh, she's
s thoughtful, she's beautiful. The nonprofit organization that I actually
work for, which is the outlet, she the intake coordinator there,
so she's responsible for all the boys that come into
the program just to see someone that gives back and
(35:42):
thoughtful and things of that nature. You know, you like
what I like, so I like you.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Selma and Jamala got married in twenty twenty two. But
even though he served his full sentence, Selma is still
not fully exonerated in the eyes of the law.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
He's trying to make a life for himself.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
He's trying to live and he can't because you know,
he has this looming over him. You know a lot
of people would be like, oh, you're out anyway, what's
the big deal, you know, but it's not about that
for him. He's innocent, and it is a complete travesty
of justice, even justice. Lavin said. The entire case is
(36:22):
justice delayed.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
I have to just be hopeful and just lean on God,
you know, and just get out and do the best
I can. You know, give more to amenity than it
didn't gave.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
To me, you know, and Soma says he's not the
only one who is mistreated by the justice system. He
still thinks about Angela Young and her two daughters, Shamikha
and Nicole.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
They didn't probably investigate her mother's death. I wasn't only wrong,
Miss Young was wrong because they didn't properly investigate her death.
They didn't care about a death. They didn't care about
my wrongful resident. You know what I mean. So at
some point black deaths don't matter, Black lives don't matter.
We don't matter. You know. Everybody that was a partitive
(37:12):
was mistreated. So God's will I do right? I do
right by life.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freelink.
Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the
links in our bio to see how you can help.
I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler,
and Kevin Wurtis, as well as senior producer Annie Chelsea,
producer Kathleen Fink, story editor Hannah Bial and researcher Shelby Sorels.
(37:53):
The show is engineered by Jackie Pauley, with additional production
by Jeff Cliburn and Connor Hall. The music in this
production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms
at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can
also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful
(38:14):
Conviction with Maggie Freeling is the production of Lava for
Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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