July 14, 2025 • 50 mins
As Hari Seldon predicted, Jason is joined by Abu to briefly recap the first two seasons of Foundation, and then dive deep on the first episode of season three. The Cleons are messier than ever, the Empire is in trouble, and the Foundation finds itself facing another crisis. All while the Mule is wreaking havoc.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warrying. Today's episode contains spoilers for the first episode of
Foundation season three and a recap of seasons one and two,
which is gonna be necessary for you, so you warn't.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello, my name is Jason Sepsio and I'm brother a
Boot and welcome back to.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Ex very major of the podcast where we dive deepy
movie coming to you from my Heart podcast, where we're
bringing you episodes every Tuesday and Thursday, plus highlighting summer's
biggest movies every Friday, and news on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Don't forget about news on Saturday. In today's episode, in
the previously on Jason, you and I are going to
be recapping Foundation seasons one and two as quickly as
we can because that's a lot to get through. But
it is dare I say foundational for understanding season three? Yeah,
and there's a quick Foundation and then later in the
air lock where we will be getting into our recap
(01:05):
of the first episode of Foundation season three, and of
course a quick programming note before we get into all
of that. Jason, Ewan, Rosie and Joelle and Ian super
producer Ian will all be at San Diego Comic Con,
so folks can't wait if you want to meet up
with Jason and Rosie and say hello, find them there
and hop in the discord to find out more details
(01:26):
about schedules.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
First recaps for Foundations seasons one and two. Okay, a
lot happens.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
All happens in the first.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Two seasons of Foundation, and it's a great, great show. Yes,
and we're hoping, we really hope you're thinking about jumping
in and hopefully these recaps will help you.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
That's right, Okay. Season one, in the first season a Foundation,
we're introduced to this galaxy spanning empire ten thousand ish
plus years in the future, and on its capital, the
capital city of Trantor, which might remind you of a
corrosion somewhat. The math prodigy Gail Dornick arrives to meet
(02:15):
with the genius mathematician Harry Selden, a very important name
in the show, and Gail quickly then gets wrapped up
in Selden's many, many schemes. Selden is a genius and
he has developed this advanced mathematical way to predict.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
The future and it's one hundred and he's right, that's
the other thing you need to know.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
The math, right, And Gail, in fact has arrived to
double check his math and confirms that this all checks out.
This psychohistory is one hundred percent true and correct and
right and unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
How do we feel about the brand name psychohistory? I
feel like we could have done I feel like Harry
could have done something a little poppier there, a little less,
you know, like brain melts sounding Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Well, like many geniuses, I don't think Harry is particularly
great at branding. He's good at the nuts and bolts,
but not so great at the sales pitch. Unfortunately for
everybody in this empire, Selden's models show a pretty grim
future for humanity. His models show that within the next
five hundred years give or take, the Empire will collapse
(03:24):
and humanity will be thrown into a dark age that
will last thirty thousand years. Folks, dangn that's a long time.
And in the first episode actually of the show, almost
as if on Q, tragedy strikes on the Capitol planet
when terrorists blow up the StarBridge, this massive space elevator
(03:45):
on tran tour. Now, lucky for us and luckily for humanity,
Selden has developed a plan to reduce that suffering. He
can't make it go away. He can't avoid the collapse altogether.
But what he can do is shorten it to just
an nice tight thousand years of suffering. Unfortunately, the powers
that be on Trantur, the folks who are in charge,
(04:06):
including the Emperor who will talk about shortly, are in
denial about all of this. They don't want to acknowledge
the fact that the great empire that they are in
charge of could be wiped away, that there could be
an end to all of this. So what they do
instead is they exile Selden and his many followers to
the edge of the galaxy to this like nothing burger
(04:26):
of a planet called Terminus. Just get out of here.
We don't want you or your psychohistory disrupting anything here
in the empire. And of course the twist here is
that Selden predicted all of this, Folks, the math checks out.
It's rocks now aboard the ship that's headed for Terminus.
(04:47):
Selden's adopted son, Rache, falls in love with Gail, and
he begins to grow suspicious that there's gaps in Seldon's plan, Like,
does this old man even know what he's talking about?
Or are we all just going out to the edge
of the g Alexy on a total whim. Here does
the math check out, Race has some questions Here, things
ultimately come to ahead. Rache confronts Selden and stabs and
(05:11):
kills him, which Harry predicted. Harry predicted It's all part
of the plan, folks, that'll become a theme in the show.
Escape Gail enters an escape pod, goes into crowdsleep, and
is able to escape, and again, all of this fulfills
Seldon's plan. Selden intended to die here before they even
made it to Terminus, because, as we'll see over the
(05:35):
course of the next season and a half, he will
become a martyr and a prophet for the foundation on Terminus.
Now backing up a little bit, over the course of
the first season, we're also introduced to what I think
is one of the most interesting and best parts of
the show, the Kleonic Dynasty, the genetic dynasty that rules
(05:56):
this empire and has ruled it for the last four
hundred or so years. Basically, there is a triplet of
clones of Cleon the first that are born over and
over and over again to rule the empire, assisted by
their mysterious and stoic mother figure, caretaker.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Advisor, the right hand person.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Demosel, who we will learn a ton about in season two. Now,
over the course of this first season, the Cleons continue
to be in denial basically that their empire is in decline,
even as they are literally dealing with rebels and rising
religious tensions within their empire. Brother Day, the sort of
(06:43):
main Cleon in charge played by Leepes, goes off and
does a bunch of stuff basically over the course of
the season to pacify the Luminous Church, which has been
threatening to undermine Cleonic rule. Basically. Now, while all that
is happening on tran Tour and with the Cleons, a
character named Salver Harden over on Terminus is also struggling
(07:08):
to help keep the Foundation alive. This group has managed
to make landfall on Terminus and over the last twenty
or so years, they've established a foothold and created the Foundation,
and they're continuing to pursue Selden's plan, but they're faced
with rising tensions from their neighbors an Acreon and Thespus.
(07:28):
After a bunch of conflicts fast forwarding a bit throughout
the season, and Harden ultimately is able to succeed in
defeating an Acreon's Zelit leader and is able to open
up this mysterious vault that's on Terminus. Inside the vault
is a hologram of Harry Selden, who is here to
guide the Foundation well into the future, again all part
(07:51):
of Harry's plan. This hologram reveals to the Foundation that
its purpose is not just to gather information and create
an encyclopedia of knowledge to preserve humanity's knowledge and technology
through the dark ages. In fact, Foundation's true purpose is
to be the center of a new empire that will
(08:13):
replace the current one once the current one fully disappears
and declines. Okay, Meanwhile, in between all of this, we
can't forget about Gail, who's been in cryosleep for twenty years.
Gail wakes up on the ship alone and finds herself
with the uploaded consciousness of Harry Selden. They spend a
(08:34):
lot of the season sort of arguing about Seldon's plans
and his schemes and what role Gail will play in them,
willingly or unwillingly, and ultimately, by the end of the season,
Gail ends up on Sinax, which is her home planet.
At the same time as Salverharden also finds herself on Sinax,
and the season ends on a pretty big reveal. Salbor
(08:56):
is Gail's daughter with rage and because of the time
travel cryo sleep stuff, they're like sort of the same age.
Big reveal. Okay, that was a lot about season one,
but that's a lot of setting up the world and
its key players. I'm going to go through season two
even faster because now we now we're familiar with who
(09:18):
everyone is and what they're doing. Okay, season two. Over
the course of season two, Gail is having these weird
visions of the future, hinting at her mentallic her telepathic abilities.
She and Selvoor go on a bunch of weird adventures
with like Hologram Seldon, and somehow Selden's consciousness Hologram is
(09:39):
installed into a new body for him. It's left totally
unexplained so far how that happens exactly, but he's back
Seldon in the flesh. Now, guided by Gail's visions and
Selden's overall plan, the three of them end up on
the planet Ignes, where a powerful mentallic named Tellum has
created this refuge for mentallics across the galaxy. But it
(10:05):
turns out she's actually evil and kills her like a
younger follower and downloads herself into the new body, and
that's how she's been able to stay alive forever. They
have to kill her ultimately, and they do. Sal War
dies in this conflict tragically, and Gail and Selden are
left to become the new leaders of these refugees, thus
(10:27):
forming the extremely important second Foundation. The Second Foundation, who
are the secret caretakers of the plan, who are pulling
the strings of destiny from behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Again all part of Harry's plan. He knew that the
first Foundation would there'd be a lot of heat on
the first foundation exactly, so he knew that, like in secret,
you're gonna have to set up that second foundation so
that when all the heat falls on the first foundation,
second foundation.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Just boom exactly, takes root and flourishes. Yep, need somebody
to be pruning the tree while the tree is on fire,
because there's a lot of heat on the tree. Meanwhile,
Wild Gale and Selden and Salver are doing their thing
on terminus. I love this character, by the way, the
charming rogue ne'er do well over, Mallow gets wrapped up
(11:19):
in Selden's schemes with the Foundation. We learned that at
this point in the timeline, we've skipped ahead a couple
of decades again, and Foundation's religious influence has really begun
to flourish, and in fact, Foundation itself has advanced quite
a bit. That enough so that their technology is beginning
to outpace the Empire, which has stalled and continue to
(11:41):
decline over these many years. Mallow ultimately ends up playing
a pretty critical role in Foundation's survival during the Second Crisis,
when the Empire attacks Terminus and ultimately is able to
defeat Brother Day and General bell Rios, who blow up
Terminus tragically. Luckily for everybody in the Foundation, the vault
(12:06):
is happens to be a sanctuary and the whole population
just kind of goes into the vault. Again not super explained,
but everyone is safe in the vault.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Don't worry about it. Don't worry, do not worry about it.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Right, quantum physics something something something. Now, while all of
this is happening, let's not forget the drama. Back on Trantor, Folks,
my favorite part of the show, the Cleons, the Triple
Emperors are literally having the worst time ever. In season two,
Brother Dusk the older One realizes that his memory has
been tampered with. There are certain things that have been
(12:40):
wiped over the years from.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
His memory and maybe the memories of all of the
Cleons for a long time, maybe since the beginning.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
That's right, and he's sort of, you know, clawing at
his agency and his purpose beyond just being a clone
of a long, long dead emperor. And we also cover
over the course of the season that there's been some
genetic drift. These clones aren't exactly clear on the first
like they've been told, and we're introducing some anomalies within
(13:12):
these clones which can be dangerous. So that's Brother Dusk's
sort of existential crisis happening this season. Brother Day is
sort of a central tension in this season because he
wants to literally shake things up permanently. He wants to
end the genetic dynasty. He wants to end the clones forever,
and in fact, he is choosing to marry Queen Sarah
(13:35):
of Cloud Dominion and produce a natural born air as
the next emperor. Meanwhile, Brother Don the younger One starts
an elicit fair affair with Queen Sarah during this season,
which is is that cheating that's up to you, dear listener.
I don't know what's happening here. They're technically all the same. Yeah,
(13:57):
it's very, very complicated. Yeah. So, over the course of
the season, Brother Day again Lee Pace the main one.
He survives in an assassination attempt, and a lot of
the blame gets thrown on Saah because Cloud Dominion not
exactly cozy with the Empire. A lot of palace intrey
happens over the course of this season, but we ultimately
(14:18):
ultimately learned by the end that Demozel is a robot
who we thought were extinct in this universe. Humanity had
gone to war with the robots, and one Demozel seems
to be one of the last surviving robots in the
entire galaxy, and she in fact is behind all of
the schemes we've witnessed over the course of this season.
The assassination attempt, pinning it on Sarah. All of that
(14:40):
drama is because of Demrizel and because she doesn't want
this wedding to go through. She has been programmed by
the First Cleon to maintain the Dynasty. That is her
programming and her purpose, and she will go to any
lengths to do that. And so season two wraps up
with the promise that the iconic Mule, if you're a
book reader, this is a very important character in the series.
(15:03):
That the Mule is coming, and that the Mule is
perhaps the single most dangerous monkey wrench thrown into Seldon's
plans and into the future of humanity, and as we
know from the first episode, he will play a huge
role this season for sure. So that's season one and two, folks.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Let's take a quick break and dive into the first
episode of season three of The Foundation. Okay, Foundation Season three,
(15:44):
Episode one, a Song for the End of Everything. We
open with Gail's narration saying, in part, if you live
for a long time, time can be a weapon. And
Gail has now been alive for like three hundred plus years,
and she doesn't look a day over like maybe thirty.
(16:04):
She looks really good. It has been one hundred and
fifty two years since the second Crisis of season two.
The Empire is in steady decline. The Foundation has taken
over the outer edge of Imperial you know, the former
Imperial territory, which is like a collection of like galaxies
(16:27):
and planets. So they're out there, and they're expanding further
into the middle areas and eating away into Imperial territory.
And like a very very important planet that sits on
the frontier between the outer we're gonna call it the
outer edge here, not the outer rim like in Star Wars,
and the Middle Era and the middle part of the
(16:50):
Imperial regions is Calgan, which is like a gambling planet,
like a beautiful lush horse racing and gambling plant. It right,
and it's the key to controlling the Middle Band. But
and nobody seems to be very concerned about this, which
is proud enough. There's a third nobody is like at
(17:14):
all concerns, which is really weird to me. There's a
third party now active in this struggle between Empire and Foundation,
and it is the Mule. This who's like a just
like a genocidal mutant maniac who has this power to
control minds, much like we saw in season two, and
(17:39):
we see it here. The Mule shows up on Kalgan.
He's apparently taken Archduke Blerian, the leader of Kalgan's like
daughter hostage and so like a Blarion has gone with
his battalions and lots of warships to meet the guy
and pay the pay the the fee to get her back.
(17:59):
But the Mule is like, no, watch this, He mind
controls everyone, makes them all kill each other, crashes the ships,
and then takes Lord Blayon's signet ring, makes him shoot himself.
And now the Mule is the new lord of Klgan.
Easy is that? Ye today Kalgan tomorrow the galaxy?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Who needs an army?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
You really don't need one, it's just him. We learn
more about Empire. They're really on their ass. It's a
poverty empire now. Previously Empire's strength was that they primarily
the fact that they had a monopoly on space travel.
You could not go anywhere in Imperial space in known
(18:43):
space without using an imperial ship. And guess what, they
don't have that monopoly anymore. Now they have to use
like fucking poverty ass mass transit jumpkies like everybody else, right.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
Like galactic MTA like everyone else. All right, yeah, wait
on the please stump away. And so it's you know,
it's not looking great. The Cleons are kind of mildly
freaking out about everything.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Going on, each one of them wondering, you know, in
the one hundred and fifty two years since the second crisis,
like will I be will us three? Will we three
cleons be the ones who lose it, you know? Or
could we possibly.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Get it all back?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Demarzelle and Dawn find evidence, well, Demarzelle shows Dawn evidence
of a new unexpected crisis looming. We should add that,
as as mentioned in the recaps, the imperial structure was this.
You had Dusk, who is the older one who's kind
of like the cool head who's here to give advice.
(19:55):
You have Day, who's like the main guy. He's he's
doing all the ruling, and and then you had Down,
who is really there just to kind of learn it's
Things have clearly changed because Dawn has taken a much
more front and center role at this point, as evidenced
by the fact that Demarsel is directly talking to him
about this crisis that she's discovered with the prime radiant
(20:17):
that Harry gave her for some reason, we don't know
where he is. They go to Clarion Station, which is
where the Galactic Council is located. The Galactic Council is
kind of like the parliament to the emperor. And as
the empire and the emperors have weakened, the Galactic Council
(20:39):
now is like really flexing their muscles. We learn that
the Galactic Council, sensing that the Cleons are washed, are
just like increasingly more difficult, and you can see this
by the fact that they're letting like this. There's protests,
like as soon as the Cleons land and Brother Don
(21:02):
gets hit with what appears to be shit but is
apparently just dirt thrown by a protester who's like immediately
like tased. They go into the meeting. The Empire is
still the numbers, the underlying numbers look good on paper.
They still have like over six thousand worlds. Foundation is
only at like eight hundred worlds, but they're like eight
(21:23):
hundred and growing, and the Empire is not growing. And
many of the Foundation's planets at this point in time
are like the it's where the food comes from, which
is like, uh oh, the important resources the bread basket planets.
But Dawn tells the Galactic Council listen, here's the good news, folks.
(21:47):
There is a group within the Foundation called the Traders.
They are like the capitalists of Foundation. They're like, they
got involved in Foundation, but then they started making making
money and now they're like, yeah, but the galaxies, but like, yeah,
do we care about it that much? Like, let's keep
making money, guys, right.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
They're less interested in the plan and the religious hoopla
of it all. They're just here because Foundation is a
great way to make money for them right now, and
so it's long as the cash keeps coming in, they'll
keep working.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
So Don is like, listen, they're you going to make
a deal and maybe we can split them away from Foundation,
And so he pitches the council on let's supply them
with weapons and let's like weaken Foundation, and they all agree,
and Den Marcella's like, Wow, whoa, You're one of Holy shit, Don,
You're like one of the most daylight Don's ever even
(22:41):
though he's only like ten days from being so he's
like almost day already, right, But he still looks like Don,
I don't know how that works.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
We'll figure that out later.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Back on Trent Tour, Dusk is going through an existential crisis.
He is just watching over and over again, like videos
like this.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Is like me, This is like me scrolling on Twitter
and watching like plane crash videos over and over again,
knowing I'm afraid of flying, Like why am I doing this? Yeah?
Why do I?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Why do we do that? And so Dusk is just
it's ten days till ascension day, which means everybody moves
up a level, which means Dusk moves moves all the
way up to the pearly gates and we'll be vaporized soon.
So he's watching like videos of like previous Dusks and
how they handled getting vaporized right, and he's clearly like
(23:36):
stressed the fuck out. Down comes to see him, and
you know, Don is like they're complaining together about the
failures of the past and a genetic drift and cleon
the seventeen he fucked this up and he fucked that
up and YadA, YadA, YadA. Don tries to settle Dusk
(23:59):
down and they talk about Colgan, but but essentially they're
both like the mule, this guy who you know will
take care of him when the time comes. Not a
big problem, he's a pirate, Not a big deal. Don
and Dusk then commiserate over the new Selden crisis on
the horizon. Dusk makes Dawn watch a video, watch one
of the watch one of the Dusk vaporized videos, and
(24:22):
it's honey.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Watch day.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
You know you gotta got you gotta see this one.
We watch this one and it's one in which this
previous version of Dusk like flips out and tries to
run like dem grabs him and throws him into the
vaporized and uh. And Don is like, so, what do
you think you're gonna run? And he's like, no, I
don't have it. I don't have it in me. It's
not in my heart to run like I'll walk into
(24:50):
the vaporizer like a man, or like a coward.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
I think he also acknowledges that, like there is some
cowardice in him. He yes, as much as he does,
absolutely he.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Doesn't have it in him. So we go to New Terminus,
where we see the Second Foundation, which is thriving now
on New Terminus, a much better planet, a much greener planet,
not this rocky kind of like high desert junk that
the previous Terminus was. The traders and it's it's I
prefer to call them the merchants because the traders it's
(25:26):
almost too easy to call them the trade tours. Yes,
but the traders are greedy, little fucking pigs led by
Mayor Inbur and they are openly talking about cessation from
the Foundation. Professor Ebling miss is like an academic and
he's been studying this coming rift, like he's kind of
(25:47):
like a sociologist, I guess, and he believes that this
is going to lead to a new crisis, and so
to kind of like figure out if he's right about that,
he goes to the vault on New Terminus to go
talk to Hologram Harry Seldon, who lives in there. Let's
take a good break and see what.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
Hologram Harry Seldon is and we're back. Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
So Professor miss tells Hologram Harry Seldon that the Foundation,
you know, is moving in a much more royalist direction
than even Harry had predicted. Harry predicted, like, okay, by
now the religious aspects of Foundation are gonna kind of
fade away, and now it's gonna be like this merchant
kind of oligarch class that are running things, these little
(26:48):
princelings of Foundation, and they're gonna be you know, agitating
for more control over Foundation. And Missus like, professor Missus
is like, yeah, you're right, but it's like much much
more in tense, And you know, he's like, I think
Empire and the Traders are like they look like they're
circling each other. I think they have a lot of
(27:09):
reason to collaborate. And Harry thinks, he's like, oh, why
is this happening? Why is it different than my plan?
I think it's because I gave Demarzelle the prime Radiant
back in season two. Yeah, why And Professor misses like,
(27:30):
hold on record, scratch moment, wait what you get? Why
did you give our enemy like your most important quantum
supercomputer that has like the plants, everything, And before you
know he can get an answer, Harry just flat kicks
him out of the vault, like goodbye, get out of
my simulated office on Haven, which is like where the
(27:57):
Traders of Foundation like have their own and kind of
like mini side headquarters and a terrible planet, you know,
very very hot, kind of volcanic. We see that the
Traders are arming, they're receiving like air drops of weapons
from the Empire Foundation. Like private investigator Han Pritcher and
(28:21):
his partner Sephanie get evidence of this, and there's like
a trait. There's a chase between like this guy, one
of these leaders of the Traders ran du and Pritcher,
and Pritcher almost dies, but he escapes and he and
Pritch and Sephanie are like flying away to go warn
(28:42):
Foundation that hey, like it's true the Empire and Foundation
seemed to be collaborating, and he and.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Sephanie almost fucked.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
But then they don't preaches like no, no, no, I'm
not going to do that.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Prench by the.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Way, shredded. This guy is like shredded unbelievable workout routine.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, well were you never sleep with a co worker,
but unless he looks like Han Fritcher, don't do that,
then you know, think about it, but don't try.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, but like yeah, I mean, you know, just like
put it out there and if it's.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
A no, it's I was gonna say it's it's notable
that Pritcher isn't able to get hard evidence here. He
has to go back to the Foundation and say, I
found a thing. You just have to believe me that
is I found that to be.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
I guess he's Yeah, he's got to like either capture Randu,
capture the weapons, or like get hard video evidence, which.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
He doesn't have.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, so he goes back to New Trantor and he
tells Mayor in berr Hey, it's true like the traders
and by the way, the mule and all this other stuff.
And the mayor is like, eh, first of all, the
mule is small potatoes, we don't care about him, and
or cowgn like big deal. And second of all, like
you do have no hard evidence. I love my job.
(29:57):
I want to keep making money. You're annoying me, I
don't you know, Like, yes, the vault is going to
open up and in like a couple days and Hallogram
Harry Selton's gonna pop out with his regular update. But like,
I'm not really interested in that because I've got a
cush job and things are very lucrative right now, eat.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
A jolly rancher and chill, my guy, Why are you
so stressed?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, just shill out, like we're all making money. What's
a big deal, Pritcher. He tries to fire Pritcher. Pritch
refuses to get fired and goes off to get more
evidence that Empire is collaborating with traders and also the
mule is a problem. On Trantor, New Zephyr of the
Luminous Church Virelis, who now lives on Trantor in the
(30:41):
Imperial Palace. Is chatting with Demarzella in the gardens. Dem
is like, listen, here's why I brought you here, because, like,
I need somebody to talk to. I'm an ancient robot
that's been alive for millennia. I have to like nanny
these cleons and also like I'm their mom, but also
I'm their wife and this whole thing, and it's and
I have no one to talk to you, so I'm
(31:02):
here to talk to you. But here's the thing, Like,
I'm gonna talk to you and then I'm gonna immediately
wipe your memory and you're not gonna remember anything we
talked about until the next time. I'm like, hey, I
need another session. Zephyr's like, okay, what can I I have?
I can't say anything, so I guess we got to
do this. She's like, I'm a robot. Here's my whole history,
here's all that stuff, and then she complains about her
programming serving humans, like the robot war, how she was
(31:27):
programmed to serve the cleons, and her weird feelings about this,
and then she cuts open her chests and pulls out
the prime radiant, and Zephyr's like, whoa, why did Harry
give that to you? Like what is this? And we
don't ever get any clarity on that, but we but
(31:48):
Demozel thinks that maybe it's so that she could see
that Empire really is coming to an end. And yet
despite the fact that Demarzel can see clearly the evidence
that Empires coming to an end and much quicker than
anyone predicted, she remains dedicated to the Cleons. Uh. And
(32:09):
you know, she says, listen, if I outlive my reason
for living, which are the Cleons, I'm going to need
the luminous Church and your guidance.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah, I really, I really, I want to pause here
for a second because I really liked this was my
favorite scene. I did too this. I thought it was
great because not only do we get like the iconic
three laws of robotics like blatantly topped here in this scene,
but I really liked this. I like how they shared
the history of the robot war, how robots kind of
(32:41):
discovered this idea of the greater good that kind of
supersedes the three laws that they are forced to follow.
And so Demrosel really there is having like sort of
a crisis of faith in her in her own programming,
in her own purpose, in the genetic dynasty that she
has maintained for hundreds and hundred of you now, And
(33:01):
I really liked that there's this looming question of what's next,
Like Demrizela has to face the existential question that I
think all humans do, right, what's next? After I am gone,
after everything I know is gone? What's next? We're seeing
a robot struggle with that, And I really loved it.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I mean, you mentioned it up top, I think, and
I think I agree. I think I love this show
and to me, like the most interesting parts are always Empire,
Like de Marzella's probably the most fascinating character in the
whole show. And then the Cleons are just good old
fashioned fun. So they're just it is an absolute mess
(33:42):
over there, Like there should be a Bravo show about.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Everything they're doing.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
It would be it would be absolutely so down and dusk. Again,
they know where to be found, are having dinner with
Foundation as Ambassador Kent, and there's Zephyr Kant is upset
about Caligan, but again no one is like really they're concerned,
(34:08):
but no one is truly alarmed. Yeah, day they say,
is not there because he's getting ready for the ascension.
He will become Dusk, of course, but he won't be vaporized.
So I don't know what he This does not seem
to be a great excuse, like nothing's really changing for him,
but whatever, right, we really we find out though, that
(34:30):
really what's going on with him is he's like, I
don't want to rule anymore. I just want to take
drugs and fuck. And that's what he's been doing for
I guess his entire run as Day.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
An incredible looks but but also spot on, right, like
when the maths shows you that everything that you are
meant for coming to an end. Who fucking cares? That's
his Who cares?
Speaker 1 (34:56):
We got two other Yeah, we got two other kleons,
you guys had.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I'm good, right, what you know?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Like, what's why do I have to do it? Right?
So Dusk goes to c Day and it's like, listen,
you got to meet with Demarzel and you have to
we have to update you on all the things that
are happening like in the galaxy, the Foundation and the
Mule and all this stuff. And then there's another crisis
coming and.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Right, did you clone a ferret. What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, what are you doing? Then Day probably still high,
goes to the meeting with Demarzel and the and his
cleonic brothers, but then he almost walks out, but then
Dusk and Donn are like, come on, Day, we need.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
You any stays just up is incredible, Oh as always
gotta have the shirt off because it's leap pace, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
And he in his like most messianic looking is he's like,
fuck Jesus this season like he's just like loving unbelievable.
He just keeps vaping. Throughout the episode, Demozel doodles with
the Prime Radiant and shows them look at this new
crisis it's coming and guess what not in like two
(36:10):
hundred years or whatever it was supposed to be like
really soon four months the end of everything, not even
four years, four months?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
And yeah, he's just like he's thinking about how you
can't wait to get back to his fuck palace, and
Denmorzella's like, listen, it's not just like the end of Empire.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
It's the immediate dark Age is happening, like right now,
end of civilization in four months, what are we gonna do?
We go to ignis where Gail Dornick is being defrosted
for another run as a as an active human not
in stasis, and while she's been there, of course, as
(36:55):
she was in season two, she was dreaming about the Mule,
and she continues to dream about the Mule. And Gail
for sure is the only person here who's gonna be like, folks,
the mule huge fucking problem. Can we all get on
the same page with this? And that's the end of
episode one. Uh A fun and very messy as usual
(37:21):
episode of Foundation on the drama front.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Your thoughts, I'm having a blast, I think, Yeah, we
have already talked about Day and Leepace and how much
fun he's having on screen. That's all that. That all continues,
I will say to be my favorite part of the show.
Every time we cut back to dray Tour, I'm locked in,
you know, phone, what is Day up to now? Like
(37:46):
I need a whole show that just follows Day.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I really like. I love the we saw Dawn take
a more active role in season two, both with you know,
basically trying to rebel against everything, the entire imperial hierarchy,
and to see another version of Dawn now basically ruling empire.
(38:13):
While Dusk is in the throes of like a complete
existential like collapse and Day is just on a full backenal.
It's really really, really fun. Demarzelle, what do you think
is going on with What do you think the relationship
(38:35):
between demarzell Empire and possibly Foundation is going to be
going forward? Because it feels like we're heading towards a
place where Gail and Demarzel are the only people who
really get it right now.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I agree, I think gosh. I mean, there is a
world in which Gail and Demarzel are the ones who
raise the big scary red flag about the mule because
both of them are reading the prime radiance. They are
the ones saying, look at this branch. We have shot
off into an unknown branch of the plan and things
(39:11):
are looking dire in just four months time. We got
to do something about this. I see a world in
which Deverzel this season tries to and perhaps finds an
answer to the question of what's next beyond the Cleons?
What am I if not the Cleons? And obviously in
the therapy session today she's posing that question. I don't
(39:34):
think she has an answer to it, and it would
be interesting to watch her character arc here start to
break away from her programming and whatever capacity she can.
She is still a robot constrained by certain programming, but
I think she could begin to answer the question for herself,
what beyond the Cleons? Can I leave the Cleons behind?
And I think that in and of itself is a
(39:56):
very interesting arc for Debrizel.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
A lot of new care characters, including Zephyr Ferrella's played
by Rebecca Innocent, daughter of Ralph Innocent, who plays art
Duke Valerian in this very episode. I will say that
one of the things that I've found delightful is, you know, Ralph,
who is in so many things, has one of the
most unique voices I think in like acting, and his
(40:23):
daughter like has those pipes as well. Yeah, Like, I
don't know if she does voiceover stuff, but she should
start because she's got like that command like a commanding voice.
But I really enjoyed the addition of of Zephyr Verrella's
for this show.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
What about the Mule, because the Mule is going to
be central to this season so far.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Really scary of course, like, as you mentioned, kind of
the iconic antagonist of the Foundation book series, a super
super scary character whose ability to put thoughts in people's
minds completely upends any of the calculations that Harry had
(41:06):
carefully put together in previous years, because he's just an
X factor, and I thought he was really scary. It
was really cool to see what he could do and
how easily he could do it. It'll be interesting to
see like, Okay, so, like what are because right now
he seems I would call him ope, Like what are
the limits? Does he get tired?
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Like?
Speaker 1 (41:28):
It'll be interesting to figure that out. And how do
you attack a character like this who can whose influence
is incredibly strong and can go for huge distances beyond him,
like his direct influences. Yeah, what did you think as
a big foundation head, what did you think?
Speaker 3 (41:50):
I really loved the Mule in this episode. I thought
that opening scene of the episode was a great way
to introduce the uninitiated to just how scary and dangerous
the Mule is and why he throws off the plans
so much. Right, because so much of psychohistory is about
big picture trends and movements and populations, right, It's not
(42:11):
about individuals changing things. And that's kind of one of
the most interesting struggles at the heart of Foundation is
like the individual versus the collective movement of entire forces,
and how much one can affect the other, and if
one can affect one person can affect things at all.
And what's interesting is, despite how much Harry Selden reinforces
(42:34):
the fact that his math is about millions and billions
and trillions of people and trends and ships happening over history,
both in the books and in the show, we continue
to see individuals, through their actions, push history one way
or another. And also individuals like Day thinking that they
(42:55):
are so important that with the wave of their hand
they can push history any which way they want. Realizing
that they're not. That was a big part of season two.
And so I think the Mule is one of these
people who can actually, with a wave of his metaphorical
mental hand, shift the course of history. And I think
that that's gonna be so fun to watch explored over
(43:16):
the course of this season.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
It's gonna be interesting to find out, like what Harry's
actual reaction to Hologram Harry, what his reaction to all
of this is.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
He's been so.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Dedicated to his plan. He's a creation in a sense
of his of his own plan an uploaded consciousness from
you know, three hundred years past now. And I found
his like reaction to Professor miss to be like really
kind of mystifying, Like I couldn't tell if he was
(43:54):
troubled and surprised at this to learn that, like, actually,
things are going much much faster and much more intensely
than you predicted, or if he was just like kind
of improvising on the fly, as it kind of seemed
like he was doing in season two.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I love seeing the two sides of Harry.
We have Hologram Harry in the vault, who is basically
Harry one point zero from like the first episode original
like he died original Harry. Yes. And then we have
like reincarnated flesh and Blood fresh and Blood, who is
like Harry. Like flesh and Blood, Harry knows about the
(44:33):
mule and knows about the threat, and Gail and Harry
have been working with Second Foundation to prepare for this,
but Holograham Harry doesn't know that. And so in this episode,
I agree, I found the reaction puzzling from Hologram Harry.
Was it confusion? Did he ever expect the mule to happen?
Is he scared. I'm interested to see how how that
(44:54):
plays out.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
It seems like we're heading towards I mean, we've already
seen foundation and kind of fracture which Harry predicted, but
he didn't predict that it would happen this intensely and
this quickly, And it seems like we're heading towards another fracture.
When the two Harrys eventually meet and discover each other,
(45:17):
and as you mentioned, you've got reincardinated Harry, who his
hairiness is honestly TBD. He seems to be Harry, but
he's also Harry with like who's been alive, who's been
running around, who's been active in different incidents throughout the
galaxy at times at Gale side, and who has a
(45:40):
different and more closer to the street perception of what's
going on, while Hologram Harry, as you mentioned, is like
the is like Harry as if you hit pause three
hundred years ago and is isolated in the vault and
only pops out like every I forget, however many decades
it comes out. And when they discover each other, or
(46:04):
when really when Hologram Harry discovers flesh and blood Harry.
What happens then, and who is going to say if
at all? Like, wait a second, I'm the guy, it's me, Yeah,
I'm the Foundation. Hold on a second, it's me, not
that one.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
It feels like we're going there and that's going to be.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
That'll be juicy, that'll be fun. Yeah, I think it's
gonna be a fun season of television.
Speaker 4 (46:29):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
I have always been a fan of Foundation. I love
the books, and I think the show has I mean,
for what it's worth, I think it's worth saying, like
for folks who are are fans of the show or
are fans of the book, the show is its own beast.
At this point, we have diverged off the original Isaac
Asimov plan that we are in like a totally different like.
So many of the characters are borrowed, ideas are borrowed.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
But where do you stand on that? Because I think
that to really adapt this you kind of have to
do that. I'm a fan of the books well, while
also admitting they are at times not the most like
propulsive reads like on Earth.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
I gosh, I'm of two minds. I really really love
the original books, and I think by the time you
get into where we are in season three. We're into
you know, we're kind of blending the books together at
this point too, but we're kind of in like Book two,
but also in Book three at this point. But when
you get into that, like, things get super interesting and
I think would make for great television should just stuck
(47:30):
to it. Book one is very difficult to adapt because
it's like time jumps between every chapter, and that almost
has to be played as like some sort of anthology
loosely connected anthology series. So I'm not sure how I
would tackle that challenge of adapting these books. I will
say season one. I almost dropped the show season one
because I came in being like, oh my gosh, my
one of my favorite books of all time is being adapted.
(47:51):
I can't wait. And then I was like, what is this.
This is not my favorite book of all time, and
I almost dropped it. I came back for season two
and I was like, I'll watch this as long as
I'm I'm interested, and maybe I'll forget about the original books.
And that's kind of the best way to enjoy this show,
Like you can't be too attached to the source material,
because I think this stands on its own as an
(48:12):
amazing sci fi show loosely inspired by Asimov's work and
borrowing many ideas and characters from Asimov's work. But this
is not Asimov's original story. This is its own story
that I think stands on its own in a different way.
So I've come to appreciate it in a different way
separate from the books.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Ultimately, Yeah, I completely agree. I agree with you that
Book three is really where it becomes. You know, Book
one was written episodically for sci fi magazines and so
there's like a dryness to it. It's a lot of
like talking about like tobacco futures on different planets and
stuff like that. You know. Like, but book three is
(48:53):
like the action book, and season two really is the
like the action season.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
And I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
The Kleonic Dynasty is, bottom line, just like really fun.
It's really fun to see them struggle with who they
are and what they are and their roles within this
and like whether it matters or not, and like their
relationship with Demarzelle and what she really knows, which you know,
(49:25):
these particular cleons haven't yet asked that question, but you
feel like they're going to, and when they do. It's
going to open up a whole another like box of
worms when that happens, because she knows so much more
than she lets one, so much more to talk about
it same, We'll be following a foundation all season. On
(49:48):
the next episode of Extra Vision, we're gathering the Justice
Gang for our Superman Roundtable. That's it for this episode.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
Are we keeping the name of Justice Gang?
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Or Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:58):
I like it? X ray Vision is hosted by Jason
Sepsion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman. Our
supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 4 (50:15):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan, and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord,
Kenny Goodman, and Heidi our discord moderator.
Warrying. Today's episode contains spoilers for the first episode of
Foundation season three and a recap of seasons one and two,
which is gonna be necessary for you, so you warn't.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello, my name is Jason Sepsio and I'm brother a
Boot and welcome back to.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Ex very major of the podcast where we dive deepy
movie coming to you from my Heart podcast, where we're
bringing you episodes every Tuesday and Thursday, plus highlighting summer's
biggest movies every Friday, and news on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Don't forget about news on Saturday. In today's episode, in
the previously on Jason, you and I are going to
be recapping Foundation seasons one and two as quickly as
we can because that's a lot to get through. But
it is dare I say foundational for understanding season three? Yeah,
and there's a quick Foundation and then later in the
air lock where we will be getting into our recap
(01:05):
of the first episode of Foundation season three, and of
course a quick programming note before we get into all
of that. Jason, Ewan, Rosie and Joelle and Ian super
producer Ian will all be at San Diego Comic Con,
so folks can't wait if you want to meet up
with Jason and Rosie and say hello, find them there
and hop in the discord to find out more details
(01:26):
about schedules.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
First recaps for Foundations seasons one and two. Okay, a
lot happens.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
All happens in the first.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Two seasons of Foundation, and it's a great, great show. Yes,
and we're hoping, we really hope you're thinking about jumping
in and hopefully these recaps will help you.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
That's right, Okay. Season one, in the first season a Foundation,
we're introduced to this galaxy spanning empire ten thousand ish
plus years in the future, and on its capital, the
capital city of Trantor, which might remind you of a
corrosion somewhat. The math prodigy Gail Dornick arrives to meet
(02:15):
with the genius mathematician Harry Selden, a very important name
in the show, and Gail quickly then gets wrapped up
in Selden's many, many schemes. Selden is a genius and
he has developed this advanced mathematical way to predict.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
The future and it's one hundred and he's right, that's
the other thing you need to know.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
The math, right, And Gail, in fact has arrived to
double check his math and confirms that this all checks out.
This psychohistory is one hundred percent true and correct and
right and unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
How do we feel about the brand name psychohistory? I
feel like we could have done I feel like Harry
could have done something a little poppier there, a little less,
you know, like brain melts sounding Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Well, like many geniuses, I don't think Harry is particularly
great at branding. He's good at the nuts and bolts,
but not so great at the sales pitch. Unfortunately for
everybody in this empire, Selden's models show a pretty grim
future for humanity. His models show that within the next
five hundred years give or take, the Empire will collapse
(03:24):
and humanity will be thrown into a dark age that
will last thirty thousand years. Folks, dangn that's a long time.
And in the first episode actually of the show, almost
as if on Q, tragedy strikes on the Capitol planet
when terrorists blow up the StarBridge, this massive space elevator
(03:45):
on tran tour. Now, lucky for us and luckily for humanity,
Selden has developed a plan to reduce that suffering. He
can't make it go away. He can't avoid the collapse altogether.
But what he can do is shorten it to just
an nice tight thousand years of suffering. Unfortunately, the powers
that be on Trantur, the folks who are in charge,
(04:06):
including the Emperor who will talk about shortly, are in
denial about all of this. They don't want to acknowledge
the fact that the great empire that they are in
charge of could be wiped away, that there could be
an end to all of this. So what they do
instead is they exile Selden and his many followers to
the edge of the galaxy to this like nothing burger
(04:26):
of a planet called Terminus. Just get out of here.
We don't want you or your psychohistory disrupting anything here
in the empire. And of course the twist here is
that Selden predicted all of this, Folks, the math checks out.
It's rocks now aboard the ship that's headed for Terminus.
(04:47):
Selden's adopted son, Rache, falls in love with Gail, and
he begins to grow suspicious that there's gaps in Seldon's plan, Like,
does this old man even know what he's talking about?
Or are we all just going out to the edge
of the g Alexy on a total whim. Here does
the math check out, Race has some questions Here, things
ultimately come to ahead. Rache confronts Selden and stabs and
(05:11):
kills him, which Harry predicted. Harry predicted It's all part
of the plan, folks, that'll become a theme in the show.
Escape Gail enters an escape pod, goes into crowdsleep, and
is able to escape, and again, all of this fulfills
Seldon's plan. Selden intended to die here before they even
made it to Terminus, because, as we'll see over the
(05:35):
course of the next season and a half, he will
become a martyr and a prophet for the foundation on Terminus.
Now backing up a little bit, over the course of
the first season, we're also introduced to what I think
is one of the most interesting and best parts of
the show, the Kleonic Dynasty, the genetic dynasty that rules
(05:56):
this empire and has ruled it for the last four
hundred or so years. Basically, there is a triplet of
clones of Cleon the first that are born over and
over and over again to rule the empire, assisted by
their mysterious and stoic mother figure, caretaker.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Advisor, the right hand person.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Demosel, who we will learn a ton about in season two. Now,
over the course of this first season, the Cleons continue
to be in denial basically that their empire is in decline,
even as they are literally dealing with rebels and rising
religious tensions within their empire. Brother Day, the sort of
(06:43):
main Cleon in charge played by Leepes, goes off and
does a bunch of stuff basically over the course of
the season to pacify the Luminous Church, which has been
threatening to undermine Cleonic rule. Basically. Now, while all that
is happening on tran Tour and with the Cleons, a
character named Salver Harden over on Terminus is also struggling
(07:08):
to help keep the Foundation alive. This group has managed
to make landfall on Terminus and over the last twenty
or so years, they've established a foothold and created the Foundation,
and they're continuing to pursue Selden's plan, but they're faced
with rising tensions from their neighbors an Acreon and Thespus.
(07:28):
After a bunch of conflicts fast forwarding a bit throughout
the season, and Harden ultimately is able to succeed in
defeating an Acreon's Zelit leader and is able to open
up this mysterious vault that's on Terminus. Inside the vault
is a hologram of Harry Selden, who is here to
guide the Foundation well into the future, again all part
(07:51):
of Harry's plan. This hologram reveals to the Foundation that
its purpose is not just to gather information and create
an encyclopedia of knowledge to preserve humanity's knowledge and technology
through the dark ages. In fact, Foundation's true purpose is
to be the center of a new empire that will
(08:13):
replace the current one once the current one fully disappears
and declines. Okay, Meanwhile, in between all of this, we
can't forget about Gail, who's been in cryosleep for twenty years.
Gail wakes up on the ship alone and finds herself
with the uploaded consciousness of Harry Selden. They spend a
(08:34):
lot of the season sort of arguing about Seldon's plans
and his schemes and what role Gail will play in them,
willingly or unwillingly, and ultimately, by the end of the season,
Gail ends up on Sinax, which is her home planet.
At the same time as Salverharden also finds herself on Sinax,
and the season ends on a pretty big reveal. Salbor
(08:56):
is Gail's daughter with rage and because of the time
travel cryo sleep stuff, they're like sort of the same age.
Big reveal. Okay, that was a lot about season one,
but that's a lot of setting up the world and
its key players. I'm going to go through season two
even faster because now we now we're familiar with who
(09:18):
everyone is and what they're doing. Okay, season two. Over
the course of season two, Gail is having these weird
visions of the future, hinting at her mentallic her telepathic abilities.
She and Selvoor go on a bunch of weird adventures
with like Hologram Seldon, and somehow Selden's consciousness Hologram is
(09:39):
installed into a new body for him. It's left totally
unexplained so far how that happens exactly, but he's back
Seldon in the flesh. Now, guided by Gail's visions and
Selden's overall plan, the three of them end up on
the planet Ignes, where a powerful mentallic named Tellum has
created this refuge for mentallics across the galaxy. But it
(10:05):
turns out she's actually evil and kills her like a
younger follower and downloads herself into the new body, and
that's how she's been able to stay alive forever. They
have to kill her ultimately, and they do. Sal War
dies in this conflict tragically, and Gail and Selden are
left to become the new leaders of these refugees, thus
(10:27):
forming the extremely important second Foundation. The Second Foundation, who
are the secret caretakers of the plan, who are pulling
the strings of destiny from behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Again all part of Harry's plan. He knew that the
first Foundation would there'd be a lot of heat on
the first foundation exactly, so he knew that, like in secret,
you're gonna have to set up that second foundation so
that when all the heat falls on the first foundation,
second foundation.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Just boom exactly, takes root and flourishes. Yep, need somebody
to be pruning the tree while the tree is on fire,
because there's a lot of heat on the tree. Meanwhile,
Wild Gale and Selden and Salver are doing their thing
on terminus. I love this character, by the way, the
charming rogue ne'er do well over, Mallow gets wrapped up
(11:19):
in Selden's schemes with the Foundation. We learned that at
this point in the timeline, we've skipped ahead a couple
of decades again, and Foundation's religious influence has really begun
to flourish, and in fact, Foundation itself has advanced quite
a bit. That enough so that their technology is beginning
to outpace the Empire, which has stalled and continue to
(11:41):
decline over these many years. Mallow ultimately ends up playing
a pretty critical role in Foundation's survival during the Second Crisis,
when the Empire attacks Terminus and ultimately is able to
defeat Brother Day and General bell Rios, who blow up
Terminus tragically. Luckily for everybody in the Foundation, the vault
(12:06):
is happens to be a sanctuary and the whole population
just kind of goes into the vault. Again not super explained,
but everyone is safe in the vault.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Don't worry about it. Don't worry, do not worry about it.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Right, quantum physics something something something. Now, while all of
this is happening, let's not forget the drama. Back on Trantor, Folks,
my favorite part of the show, the Cleons, the Triple
Emperors are literally having the worst time ever. In season two,
Brother Dusk the older One realizes that his memory has
been tampered with. There are certain things that have been
(12:40):
wiped over the years from.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
His memory and maybe the memories of all of the
Cleons for a long time, maybe since the beginning.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
That's right, and he's sort of, you know, clawing at
his agency and his purpose beyond just being a clone
of a long, long dead emperor. And we also cover
over the course of the season that there's been some
genetic drift. These clones aren't exactly clear on the first
like they've been told, and we're introducing some anomalies within
(13:12):
these clones which can be dangerous. So that's Brother Dusk's
sort of existential crisis happening this season. Brother Day is
sort of a central tension in this season because he
wants to literally shake things up permanently. He wants to
end the genetic dynasty. He wants to end the clones forever,
and in fact, he is choosing to marry Queen Sarah
(13:35):
of Cloud Dominion and produce a natural born air as
the next emperor. Meanwhile, Brother Don the younger One starts
an elicit fair affair with Queen Sarah during this season,
which is is that cheating that's up to you, dear listener.
I don't know what's happening here. They're technically all the same. Yeah,
(13:57):
it's very, very complicated. Yeah. So, over the course of
the season, Brother Day again Lee Pace the main one.
He survives in an assassination attempt, and a lot of
the blame gets thrown on Saah because Cloud Dominion not
exactly cozy with the Empire. A lot of palace intrey
happens over the course of this season, but we ultimately
(14:18):
ultimately learned by the end that Demozel is a robot
who we thought were extinct in this universe. Humanity had
gone to war with the robots, and one Demozel seems
to be one of the last surviving robots in the
entire galaxy, and she in fact is behind all of
the schemes we've witnessed over the course of this season.
The assassination attempt, pinning it on Sarah. All of that
(14:40):
drama is because of Demrizel and because she doesn't want
this wedding to go through. She has been programmed by
the First Cleon to maintain the Dynasty. That is her
programming and her purpose, and she will go to any
lengths to do that. And so season two wraps up
with the promise that the iconic Mule, if you're a
book reader, this is a very important character in the series.
(15:03):
That the Mule is coming, and that the Mule is
perhaps the single most dangerous monkey wrench thrown into Seldon's
plans and into the future of humanity, and as we
know from the first episode, he will play a huge
role this season for sure. So that's season one and two, folks.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Let's take a quick break and dive into the first
episode of season three of The Foundation. Okay, Foundation Season three,
(15:44):
Episode one, a Song for the End of Everything. We
open with Gail's narration saying, in part, if you live
for a long time, time can be a weapon. And
Gail has now been alive for like three hundred plus years,
and she doesn't look a day over like maybe thirty.
(16:04):
She looks really good. It has been one hundred and
fifty two years since the second Crisis of season two.
The Empire is in steady decline. The Foundation has taken
over the outer edge of Imperial you know, the former
Imperial territory, which is like a collection of like galaxies
(16:27):
and planets. So they're out there, and they're expanding further
into the middle areas and eating away into Imperial territory.
And like a very very important planet that sits on
the frontier between the outer we're gonna call it the
outer edge here, not the outer rim like in Star Wars,
and the Middle Era and the middle part of the
(16:50):
Imperial regions is Calgan, which is like a gambling planet,
like a beautiful lush horse racing and gambling plant. It right,
and it's the key to controlling the Middle Band. But
and nobody seems to be very concerned about this, which
is proud enough. There's a third nobody is like at
(17:14):
all concerns, which is really weird to me. There's a
third party now active in this struggle between Empire and Foundation,
and it is the Mule. This who's like a just
like a genocidal mutant maniac who has this power to
control minds, much like we saw in season two, and
(17:39):
we see it here. The Mule shows up on Kalgan.
He's apparently taken Archduke Blerian, the leader of Kalgan's like
daughter hostage and so like a Blarion has gone with
his battalions and lots of warships to meet the guy
and pay the pay the the fee to get her back.
(17:59):
But the Mule is like, no, watch this, He mind
controls everyone, makes them all kill each other, crashes the ships,
and then takes Lord Blayon's signet ring, makes him shoot himself.
And now the Mule is the new lord of Klgan.
Easy is that? Ye today Kalgan tomorrow the galaxy?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Who needs an army?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
You really don't need one, it's just him. We learn
more about Empire. They're really on their ass. It's a
poverty empire now. Previously Empire's strength was that they primarily
the fact that they had a monopoly on space travel.
You could not go anywhere in Imperial space in known
(18:43):
space without using an imperial ship. And guess what, they
don't have that monopoly anymore. Now they have to use
like fucking poverty ass mass transit jumpkies like everybody else, right.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
Like galactic MTA like everyone else. All right, yeah, wait
on the please stump away. And so it's you know,
it's not looking great. The Cleons are kind of mildly
freaking out about everything.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Going on, each one of them wondering, you know, in
the one hundred and fifty two years since the second crisis,
like will I be will us three? Will we three
cleons be the ones who lose it, you know? Or
could we possibly.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Get it all back?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Demarzelle and Dawn find evidence, well, Demarzelle shows Dawn evidence
of a new unexpected crisis looming. We should add that,
as as mentioned in the recaps, the imperial structure was this.
You had Dusk, who is the older one who's kind
of like the cool head who's here to give advice.
(19:55):
You have Day, who's like the main guy. He's he's
doing all the ruling, and and then you had Down,
who is really there just to kind of learn it's
Things have clearly changed because Dawn has taken a much
more front and center role at this point, as evidenced
by the fact that Demarsel is directly talking to him
about this crisis that she's discovered with the prime radiant
(20:17):
that Harry gave her for some reason, we don't know
where he is. They go to Clarion Station, which is
where the Galactic Council is located. The Galactic Council is
kind of like the parliament to the emperor. And as
the empire and the emperors have weakened, the Galactic Council
(20:39):
now is like really flexing their muscles. We learn that
the Galactic Council, sensing that the Cleons are washed, are
just like increasingly more difficult, and you can see this
by the fact that they're letting like this. There's protests,
like as soon as the Cleons land and Brother Don
(21:02):
gets hit with what appears to be shit but is
apparently just dirt thrown by a protester who's like immediately
like tased. They go into the meeting. The Empire is
still the numbers, the underlying numbers look good on paper.
They still have like over six thousand worlds. Foundation is
only at like eight hundred worlds, but they're like eight
(21:23):
hundred and growing, and the Empire is not growing. And
many of the Foundation's planets at this point in time
are like the it's where the food comes from, which
is like, uh oh, the important resources the bread basket planets.
But Dawn tells the Galactic Council listen, here's the good news, folks.
(21:47):
There is a group within the Foundation called the Traders.
They are like the capitalists of Foundation. They're like, they
got involved in Foundation, but then they started making making
money and now they're like, yeah, but the galaxies, but like, yeah,
do we care about it that much? Like, let's keep
making money, guys, right.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
They're less interested in the plan and the religious hoopla
of it all. They're just here because Foundation is a
great way to make money for them right now, and
so it's long as the cash keeps coming in, they'll
keep working.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
So Don is like, listen, they're you going to make
a deal and maybe we can split them away from Foundation,
And so he pitches the council on let's supply them
with weapons and let's like weaken Foundation, and they all agree,
and Den Marcella's like, Wow, whoa, You're one of Holy shit, Don,
You're like one of the most daylight Don's ever even
(22:41):
though he's only like ten days from being so he's
like almost day already, right, But he still looks like Don,
I don't know how that works.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
We'll figure that out later.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Back on Trent Tour, Dusk is going through an existential crisis.
He is just watching over and over again, like videos
like this.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Is like me, This is like me scrolling on Twitter
and watching like plane crash videos over and over again,
knowing I'm afraid of flying, Like why am I doing this? Yeah?
Why do I?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Why do we do that? And so Dusk is just
it's ten days till ascension day, which means everybody moves
up a level, which means Dusk moves moves all the
way up to the pearly gates and we'll be vaporized soon.
So he's watching like videos of like previous Dusks and
how they handled getting vaporized right, and he's clearly like
(23:36):
stressed the fuck out. Down comes to see him, and
you know, Don is like they're complaining together about the
failures of the past and a genetic drift and cleon
the seventeen he fucked this up and he fucked that
up and YadA, YadA, YadA. Don tries to settle Dusk
(23:59):
down and they talk about Colgan, but but essentially they're
both like the mule, this guy who you know will
take care of him when the time comes. Not a
big problem, he's a pirate, Not a big deal. Don
and Dusk then commiserate over the new Selden crisis on
the horizon. Dusk makes Dawn watch a video, watch one
of the watch one of the Dusk vaporized videos, and
(24:22):
it's honey.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Watch day.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
You know you gotta got you gotta see this one.
We watch this one and it's one in which this
previous version of Dusk like flips out and tries to
run like dem grabs him and throws him into the
vaporized and uh. And Don is like, so, what do
you think you're gonna run? And he's like, no, I
don't have it. I don't have it in me. It's
not in my heart to run like I'll walk into
(24:50):
the vaporizer like a man, or like a coward.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
I think he also acknowledges that, like there is some
cowardice in him. He yes, as much as he does,
absolutely he.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Doesn't have it in him. So we go to New Terminus,
where we see the Second Foundation, which is thriving now
on New Terminus, a much better planet, a much greener planet,
not this rocky kind of like high desert junk that
the previous Terminus was. The traders and it's it's I
prefer to call them the merchants because the traders it's
(25:26):
almost too easy to call them the trade tours. Yes,
but the traders are greedy, little fucking pigs led by
Mayor Inbur and they are openly talking about cessation from
the Foundation. Professor Ebling miss is like an academic and
he's been studying this coming rift, like he's kind of
(25:47):
like a sociologist, I guess, and he believes that this
is going to lead to a new crisis, and so
to kind of like figure out if he's right about that,
he goes to the vault on New Terminus to go
talk to Hologram Harry Seldon, who lives in there. Let's
take a good break and see what.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
Hologram Harry Seldon is and we're back. Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
So Professor miss tells Hologram Harry Seldon that the Foundation,
you know, is moving in a much more royalist direction
than even Harry had predicted. Harry predicted, like, okay, by
now the religious aspects of Foundation are gonna kind of
fade away, and now it's gonna be like this merchant
kind of oligarch class that are running things, these little
(26:48):
princelings of Foundation, and they're gonna be you know, agitating
for more control over Foundation. And Missus like, professor Missus
is like, yeah, you're right, but it's like much much
more in tense, And you know, he's like, I think
Empire and the Traders are like they look like they're
circling each other. I think they have a lot of
(27:09):
reason to collaborate. And Harry thinks, he's like, oh, why
is this happening? Why is it different than my plan?
I think it's because I gave Demarzelle the prime Radiant
back in season two. Yeah, why And Professor misses like,
(27:30):
hold on record, scratch moment, wait what you get? Why
did you give our enemy like your most important quantum
supercomputer that has like the plants, everything, And before you
know he can get an answer, Harry just flat kicks
him out of the vault, like goodbye, get out of
my simulated office on Haven, which is like where the
(27:57):
Traders of Foundation like have their own and kind of
like mini side headquarters and a terrible planet, you know,
very very hot, kind of volcanic. We see that the
Traders are arming, they're receiving like air drops of weapons
from the Empire Foundation. Like private investigator Han Pritcher and
(28:21):
his partner Sephanie get evidence of this, and there's like
a trait. There's a chase between like this guy, one
of these leaders of the Traders ran du and Pritcher,
and Pritcher almost dies, but he escapes and he and
Pritch and Sephanie are like flying away to go warn
(28:42):
Foundation that hey, like it's true the Empire and Foundation
seemed to be collaborating, and he and.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Sephanie almost fucked.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
But then they don't preaches like no, no, no, I'm
not going to do that.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Prench by the.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Way, shredded. This guy is like shredded unbelievable workout routine.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, well were you never sleep with a co worker,
but unless he looks like Han Fritcher, don't do that,
then you know, think about it, but don't try.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, but like yeah, I mean, you know, just like
put it out there and if it's.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
A no, it's I was gonna say it's it's notable
that Pritcher isn't able to get hard evidence here. He
has to go back to the Foundation and say, I
found a thing. You just have to believe me that
is I found that to be.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
I guess he's Yeah, he's got to like either capture Randu,
capture the weapons, or like get hard video evidence, which.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
He doesn't have.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, so he goes back to New Trantor and he
tells Mayor in berr Hey, it's true like the traders
and by the way, the mule and all this other stuff.
And the mayor is like, eh, first of all, the
mule is small potatoes, we don't care about him, and
or cowgn like big deal. And second of all, like
you do have no hard evidence. I love my job.
(29:57):
I want to keep making money. You're annoying me, I
don't you know, Like, yes, the vault is going to
open up and in like a couple days and Hallogram
Harry Selton's gonna pop out with his regular update. But like,
I'm not really interested in that because I've got a
cush job and things are very lucrative right now, eat.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
A jolly rancher and chill, my guy, Why are you
so stressed?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, just shill out, like we're all making money. What's
a big deal, Pritcher. He tries to fire Pritcher. Pritch
refuses to get fired and goes off to get more
evidence that Empire is collaborating with traders and also the
mule is a problem. On Trantor, New Zephyr of the
Luminous Church Virelis, who now lives on Trantor in the
(30:41):
Imperial Palace. Is chatting with Demarzella in the gardens. Dem
is like, listen, here's why I brought you here, because, like,
I need somebody to talk to. I'm an ancient robot
that's been alive for millennia. I have to like nanny
these cleons and also like I'm their mom, but also
I'm their wife and this whole thing, and it's and
I have no one to talk to you, so I'm
(31:02):
here to talk to you. But here's the thing, Like,
I'm gonna talk to you and then I'm gonna immediately
wipe your memory and you're not gonna remember anything we
talked about until the next time. I'm like, hey, I
need another session. Zephyr's like, okay, what can I I have?
I can't say anything, so I guess we got to
do this. She's like, I'm a robot. Here's my whole history,
here's all that stuff, and then she complains about her
programming serving humans, like the robot war, how she was
(31:27):
programmed to serve the cleons, and her weird feelings about this,
and then she cuts open her chests and pulls out
the prime radiant, and Zephyr's like, whoa, why did Harry
give that to you? Like what is this? And we
don't ever get any clarity on that, but we but
(31:48):
Demozel thinks that maybe it's so that she could see
that Empire really is coming to an end. And yet
despite the fact that Demarzel can see clearly the evidence
that Empires coming to an end and much quicker than
anyone predicted, she remains dedicated to the Cleons. Uh. And
(32:09):
you know, she says, listen, if I outlive my reason
for living, which are the Cleons, I'm going to need
the luminous Church and your guidance.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah, I really, I really, I want to pause here
for a second because I really liked this was my
favorite scene. I did too this. I thought it was
great because not only do we get like the iconic
three laws of robotics like blatantly topped here in this scene,
but I really liked this. I like how they shared
the history of the robot war, how robots kind of
(32:41):
discovered this idea of the greater good that kind of
supersedes the three laws that they are forced to follow.
And so Demrosel really there is having like sort of
a crisis of faith in her in her own programming,
in her own purpose, in the genetic dynasty that she
has maintained for hundreds and hundred of you now, And
(33:01):
I really liked that there's this looming question of what's next,
Like Demrizela has to face the existential question that I
think all humans do, right, what's next? After I am gone,
after everything I know is gone? What's next? We're seeing
a robot struggle with that, And I really loved it.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I mean, you mentioned it up top, I think, and
I think I agree. I think I love this show
and to me, like the most interesting parts are always Empire,
Like de Marzella's probably the most fascinating character in the
whole show. And then the Cleons are just good old
fashioned fun. So they're just it is an absolute mess
(33:42):
over there, Like there should be a Bravo show about.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Everything they're doing.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
It would be it would be absolutely so down and dusk. Again,
they know where to be found, are having dinner with
Foundation as Ambassador Kent, and there's Zephyr Kant is upset
about Caligan, but again no one is like really they're concerned,
(34:08):
but no one is truly alarmed. Yeah, day they say,
is not there because he's getting ready for the ascension.
He will become Dusk, of course, but he won't be vaporized.
So I don't know what he This does not seem
to be a great excuse, like nothing's really changing for him,
but whatever, right, we really we find out though, that
(34:30):
really what's going on with him is he's like, I
don't want to rule anymore. I just want to take
drugs and fuck. And that's what he's been doing for
I guess his entire run as Day.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
An incredible looks but but also spot on, right, like
when the maths shows you that everything that you are
meant for coming to an end. Who fucking cares? That's
his Who cares?
Speaker 1 (34:56):
We got two other Yeah, we got two other kleons,
you guys had.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I'm good, right, what you know?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Like, what's why do I have to do it? Right?
So Dusk goes to c Day and it's like, listen,
you got to meet with Demarzel and you have to
we have to update you on all the things that
are happening like in the galaxy, the Foundation and the
Mule and all this stuff. And then there's another crisis
coming and.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Right, did you clone a ferret. What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, what are you doing? Then Day probably still high,
goes to the meeting with Demarzel and the and his
cleonic brothers, but then he almost walks out, but then
Dusk and Donn are like, come on, Day, we need.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
You any stays just up is incredible, Oh as always
gotta have the shirt off because it's leap pace, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
And he in his like most messianic looking is he's like,
fuck Jesus this season like he's just like loving unbelievable.
He just keeps vaping. Throughout the episode, Demozel doodles with
the Prime Radiant and shows them look at this new
crisis it's coming and guess what not in like two
(36:10):
hundred years or whatever it was supposed to be like
really soon four months the end of everything, not even
four years, four months?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
And yeah, he's just like he's thinking about how you
can't wait to get back to his fuck palace, and
Denmorzella's like, listen, it's not just like the end of Empire.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
It's the immediate dark Age is happening, like right now,
end of civilization in four months, what are we gonna do?
We go to ignis where Gail Dornick is being defrosted
for another run as a as an active human not
in stasis, and while she's been there, of course, as
(36:55):
she was in season two, she was dreaming about the Mule,
and she continues to dream about the Mule. And Gail
for sure is the only person here who's gonna be like, folks,
the mule huge fucking problem. Can we all get on
the same page with this? And that's the end of
episode one. Uh A fun and very messy as usual
(37:21):
episode of Foundation on the drama front.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Your thoughts, I'm having a blast, I think, Yeah, we
have already talked about Day and Leepace and how much
fun he's having on screen. That's all that. That all continues,
I will say to be my favorite part of the show.
Every time we cut back to dray Tour, I'm locked in,
you know, phone, what is Day up to now? Like
(37:46):
I need a whole show that just follows Day.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I really like. I love the we saw Dawn take
a more active role in season two, both with you know,
basically trying to rebel against everything, the entire imperial hierarchy,
and to see another version of Dawn now basically ruling empire.
(38:13):
While Dusk is in the throes of like a complete
existential like collapse and Day is just on a full backenal.
It's really really, really fun. Demarzelle, what do you think
is going on with What do you think the relationship
(38:35):
between demarzell Empire and possibly Foundation is going to be
going forward? Because it feels like we're heading towards a
place where Gail and Demarzel are the only people who
really get it right now.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I agree, I think gosh. I mean, there is a
world in which Gail and Demarzel are the ones who
raise the big scary red flag about the mule because
both of them are reading the prime radiance. They are
the ones saying, look at this branch. We have shot
off into an unknown branch of the plan and things
(39:11):
are looking dire in just four months time. We got
to do something about this. I see a world in
which Deverzel this season tries to and perhaps finds an
answer to the question of what's next beyond the Cleons?
What am I if not the Cleons? And obviously in
the therapy session today she's posing that question. I don't
(39:34):
think she has an answer to it, and it would
be interesting to watch her character arc here start to
break away from her programming and whatever capacity she can.
She is still a robot constrained by certain programming, but
I think she could begin to answer the question for herself,
what beyond the Cleons? Can I leave the Cleons behind?
And I think that in and of itself is a
(39:56):
very interesting arc for Debrizel.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
A lot of new care characters, including Zephyr Ferrella's played
by Rebecca Innocent, daughter of Ralph Innocent, who plays art
Duke Valerian in this very episode. I will say that
one of the things that I've found delightful is, you know, Ralph,
who is in so many things, has one of the
most unique voices I think in like acting, and his
(40:23):
daughter like has those pipes as well. Yeah, Like, I
don't know if she does voiceover stuff, but she should
start because she's got like that command like a commanding voice.
But I really enjoyed the addition of of Zephyr Verrella's
for this show.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
What about the Mule, because the Mule is going to
be central to this season so far.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Really scary of course, like, as you mentioned, kind of
the iconic antagonist of the Foundation book series, a super
super scary character whose ability to put thoughts in people's
minds completely upends any of the calculations that Harry had
(41:06):
carefully put together in previous years, because he's just an
X factor, and I thought he was really scary. It
was really cool to see what he could do and
how easily he could do it. It'll be interesting to
see like, Okay, so, like what are because right now
he seems I would call him ope, Like what are
the limits? Does he get tired?
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Like?
Speaker 1 (41:28):
It'll be interesting to figure that out. And how do
you attack a character like this who can whose influence
is incredibly strong and can go for huge distances beyond him,
like his direct influences. Yeah, what did you think as
a big foundation head, what did you think?
Speaker 3 (41:50):
I really loved the Mule in this episode. I thought
that opening scene of the episode was a great way
to introduce the uninitiated to just how scary and dangerous
the Mule is and why he throws off the plans
so much. Right, because so much of psychohistory is about
big picture trends and movements and populations, right, It's not
(42:11):
about individuals changing things. And that's kind of one of
the most interesting struggles at the heart of Foundation is
like the individual versus the collective movement of entire forces,
and how much one can affect the other, and if
one can affect one person can affect things at all.
And what's interesting is, despite how much Harry Selden reinforces
(42:34):
the fact that his math is about millions and billions
and trillions of people and trends and ships happening over history,
both in the books and in the show, we continue
to see individuals, through their actions, push history one way
or another. And also individuals like Day thinking that they
(42:55):
are so important that with the wave of their hand
they can push history any which way they want. Realizing
that they're not. That was a big part of season two.
And so I think the Mule is one of these
people who can actually, with a wave of his metaphorical
mental hand, shift the course of history. And I think
that that's gonna be so fun to watch explored over
(43:16):
the course of this season.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
It's gonna be interesting to find out, like what Harry's
actual reaction to Hologram Harry, what his reaction to all
of this is.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
He's been so.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Dedicated to his plan. He's a creation in a sense
of his of his own plan an uploaded consciousness from
you know, three hundred years past now. And I found
his like reaction to Professor miss to be like really
kind of mystifying, Like I couldn't tell if he was
(43:54):
troubled and surprised at this to learn that, like, actually,
things are going much much faster and much more intensely
than you predicted, or if he was just like kind
of improvising on the fly, as it kind of seemed
like he was doing in season two.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I love seeing the two sides of Harry.
We have Hologram Harry in the vault, who is basically
Harry one point zero from like the first episode original
like he died original Harry. Yes. And then we have
like reincarnated flesh and Blood fresh and Blood, who is
like Harry. Like flesh and Blood, Harry knows about the
(44:33):
mule and knows about the threat, and Gail and Harry
have been working with Second Foundation to prepare for this,
but Holograham Harry doesn't know that. And so in this episode,
I agree, I found the reaction puzzling from Hologram Harry.
Was it confusion? Did he ever expect the mule to happen?
Is he scared. I'm interested to see how how that
(44:54):
plays out.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
It seems like we're heading towards I mean, we've already
seen foundation and kind of fracture which Harry predicted, but
he didn't predict that it would happen this intensely and
this quickly, And it seems like we're heading towards another fracture.
When the two Harrys eventually meet and discover each other,
(45:17):
and as you mentioned, you've got reincardinated Harry, who his
hairiness is honestly TBD. He seems to be Harry, but
he's also Harry with like who's been alive, who's been
running around, who's been active in different incidents throughout the
galaxy at times at Gale side, and who has a
(45:40):
different and more closer to the street perception of what's
going on, while Hologram Harry, as you mentioned, is like
the is like Harry as if you hit pause three
hundred years ago and is isolated in the vault and
only pops out like every I forget, however many decades
it comes out. And when they discover each other, or
(46:04):
when really when Hologram Harry discovers flesh and blood Harry.
What happens then, and who is going to say if
at all? Like, wait a second, I'm the guy, it's me, Yeah,
I'm the Foundation. Hold on a second, it's me, not
that one.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
It feels like we're going there and that's going to be.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
That'll be juicy, that'll be fun. Yeah, I think it's
gonna be a fun season of television.
Speaker 4 (46:29):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
I have always been a fan of Foundation. I love
the books, and I think the show has I mean,
for what it's worth, I think it's worth saying, like
for folks who are are fans of the show or
are fans of the book, the show is its own beast.
At this point, we have diverged off the original Isaac
Asimov plan that we are in like a totally different like.
So many of the characters are borrowed, ideas are borrowed.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
But where do you stand on that? Because I think
that to really adapt this you kind of have to
do that. I'm a fan of the books well, while
also admitting they are at times not the most like
propulsive reads like on Earth.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
I gosh, I'm of two minds. I really really love
the original books, and I think by the time you
get into where we are in season three. We're into
you know, we're kind of blending the books together at
this point too, but we're kind of in like Book two,
but also in Book three at this point. But when
you get into that, like, things get super interesting and
I think would make for great television should just stuck
(47:30):
to it. Book one is very difficult to adapt because
it's like time jumps between every chapter, and that almost
has to be played as like some sort of anthology
loosely connected anthology series. So I'm not sure how I
would tackle that challenge of adapting these books. I will
say season one. I almost dropped the show season one
because I came in being like, oh my gosh, my
one of my favorite books of all time is being adapted.
(47:51):
I can't wait. And then I was like, what is this.
This is not my favorite book of all time, and
I almost dropped it. I came back for season two
and I was like, I'll watch this as long as
I'm I'm interested, and maybe I'll forget about the original books.
And that's kind of the best way to enjoy this show,
Like you can't be too attached to the source material,
because I think this stands on its own as an
(48:12):
amazing sci fi show loosely inspired by Asimov's work and
borrowing many ideas and characters from Asimov's work. But this
is not Asimov's original story. This is its own story
that I think stands on its own in a different way.
So I've come to appreciate it in a different way
separate from the books.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Ultimately, Yeah, I completely agree. I agree with you that
Book three is really where it becomes. You know, Book
one was written episodically for sci fi magazines and so
there's like a dryness to it. It's a lot of
like talking about like tobacco futures on different planets and
stuff like that. You know. Like, but book three is
(48:53):
like the action book, and season two really is the
like the action season.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
And I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
The Kleonic Dynasty is, bottom line, just like really fun.
It's really fun to see them struggle with who they
are and what they are and their roles within this
and like whether it matters or not, and like their
relationship with Demarzelle and what she really knows, which you know,
(49:25):
these particular cleons haven't yet asked that question, but you
feel like they're going to, and when they do. It's
going to open up a whole another like box of
worms when that happens, because she knows so much more
than she lets one, so much more to talk about
it same, We'll be following a foundation all season. On
(49:48):
the next episode of Extra Vision, we're gathering the Justice
Gang for our Superman Roundtable. That's it for this episode.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
Are we keeping the name of Justice Gang?
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Or Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:58):
I like it? X ray Vision is hosted by Jason
Sepsion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman. Our
supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 4 (50:15):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan, and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord,
Kenny Goodman, and Heidi our discord moderator.
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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