July 28, 2025 • 31 mins
Jason and Rosie are joined by Abu to recap and dive deep into the third episode of Foundation season three. Plots are unfolding on Trantor as all three clones of Cleon find ways to rebel, and the Mule proves to be a powerful adversary for the chiseled and handsome Pritcher.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning, this episode contains spoilers for a Foundation season three
episode three. Hello, my name is Jason Sepsion and I'm
(00:24):
Rosy Night, and welcome back to x ray Vision of
the podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics,
and pop culture.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
We're here and iHeart podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
We'll bring you three episodes every week Tuesday Thursday, and.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
The summer's biggest movies every Friday, plus news on Saturday,
plus news.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
In today's episode, most importantly for me, as a new
space traveler in the world of Foundation, we are bringing
back our spice Master.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
A boo, A boo.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I think this interests This is an episode that really
I have a lot of questions about in broadens the
wild a little bit, so let's talk about it.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
I'm really excited to do this with you guys.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Episode three, season three, When a Book Finds You. We
open three years ago, flashback to the library where Don
current Don was down. Then rise to the library and
he's like, I what do you got on psychohistory? Give
me all the books on psychohistory, and the library is like, ahaa,
I'll take you to see the old books, and they
(01:29):
go back there. And what's very interesting is it's very
clear here that down is beginning to become work.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Is psychohistory curious? Hold on, do we get it wrong?
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Maybe did cleon the whatever the whichever one he was back? Then?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Do we get it wrong?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Is psychohistory a lot more interesting with a lot more
to tell us about the world than we thought?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Is that the case?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So he goes back there and they show him I
believe it's the ninth Book of Folding book right, which
is a Callan's ninth ninth Theorem of Folding, which was
a very a very important book, a source book for
Harry Seldon's work. And Donn is like, well, how did
(02:23):
you even get this book? And the library is like
super super cagey about it and is like, by the way,
the person who left the book here said that if
anybody ever came looking for it, that we should tell them.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So I'm going to do that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And guess who it was who left that little message
and who brought the book back? It was Gaild her
periods of being awake when she was not frozen. Who
knows when this could have been like aboo, any idea
timeline wise when this might have happened.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I I'm unclear on that.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
No, I think it's got to be some time after
her for awakening, the first time she was unfrozen.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, I think anyway, so day, I mean, excuse me.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Dusk, all disguised up, goes to a tea house to
meet this mysterious person.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It's Gail Dorning and they begin plotting together.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
He's like, how are you still alive? She's like, weird
question coming from you, but it's cryos.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Come on, my guy, Like, what do you mean you
think of anyone?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Who else is it going to be?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So apparently Gail and the Foundation have been using the
Ninth Book as like a lure for.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
People who are.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Have the same kind of mindset as what Foundation is
looking for. And Gale and Dawn they kind of spar
back and forth about like whose fault everything is? And
Dawn eventually tells Gail that the Empire has the prime
Radiant that Harry Seldon gave it to him.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
This is a shock to Gail.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Don uh Is, like, listen, the data is obviously like
fucked and Demarzelle has been is the gate is the
Gatekeeper basically of the prime radiant data, and I believe
that she's interpreting the data in a way that is
only beneficial the Empire, not the galaxy, and I care
about the galaxy. So Gail's like, Okay, here's here's my
(04:25):
pitch escape Empire.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And we keep talking.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
We deal with the threat of the mule, which I'm
gonna tell you is a big deal, and Don is like,
I'll think about it, and he reaches out and then
his hand goes right through Gale's wrist.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
She's a hologram.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
A tough choice as far as disguises go. I'm not
so sure about the goate look for.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
A lot more.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Have you guys seen the movie pop Star Never Stop
Popping Iconic Lone Moe, one of the funniest movies ever made.
I always think about when anyone puts on a disguise.
I always think about the Andy Sambak character. He puts
on like a full face of makeup, and I'm like,
he does like a prostatic knows like that's how he
does it to hide from the press. And I always think,
I'm like, you guys are not doing enough what the
(05:14):
disguise is, Like, you got to really put that stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I mean, you gotta go full mission impossible.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Yeah, you need a fake mosque.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, the facial recognition technology. However, many thousands of years
in the future, this has got to be great.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
We go to the present.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Don reads a secret message, he destroys it. He gets
this little Gail communicator out and they start talking and
Gail tells Dawn that he needs to ask the council
to do like a siege, like let's let's let's completely
seal off Kalgan. Don is like, but, like, that's not
even imperial territory. It'll start a war with original og Foundation,
(05:53):
First Foundation. And Gail is like, let me handle the bitches.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
She said, I it's like she was like, She's like,
Harry Selden gave me this ninth proof manuscript and twelve
O sixty seven, Like, come.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
On, Mariam is a fucking pushover. And she's like, listen,
the mule. Nobody's getting it. We need to act now
because the mule quickly will become too strong for us
to deal with. And she warns Don that also it's
gonna sound crazy, okay, but the mule can control people's minds,
and Don was like, what he's like, peace and then
(06:31):
she hangs up Kalgan. It's the big party. It's the
Mule Party, Torn Beta and Preitch. The spies enter Spicy
with no shirt.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Can we talk about the outsits?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I love this. It's like, you know, it's kind of
like the opposite of being solid's like hiding and play insight.
He's like, I gotta look extra sexy that no one would.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Yeah, I mean he's live streaming. The whole thing is
a little like vlog Cambridge.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
So fun. Okay, so it's spy time.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
We see at the center of it all the Mules,
personal balladeer DJ Magnifico Giganticus.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
This is why is this.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Is the funnest fantastic This is like the most fun
episode of this season so far. There's so much like
in depth political lore and kind of and Spycroft like
stage setting that the first two episodes do. But this
episode is.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Like a blost everyone.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
They just sneaking on everyone and there's a potty I mean,
who doesn't want to be named Magnifico Giganticus is like
the best name of all time.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
Like that's that's a bad name than duncan Idaho.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Like, come on, man, I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
They drop a mike Sure, ask name on us magnifical
and magnifico. Giganticus plays like it appears to be a
highly advanced like Beats Bluetooth speaker and is just like,
has the room and trance that mule.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Come out of that speaker, But it's not connected.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
That the mule is just chilling watching it all. He's
with Scarlet and some other like his other top lieutenants.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Pritch comes over.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And bad idea. I think I don't know what Prichard
was thinking. Of course he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Really yeah, yeah, what was the planner?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
But of course he I guess theoretically isn't fully aware
of the mule's abilities, right, So the mule just like
is like, okay, great, I'm gonna scour your mind. Immediately
just goes like rifling through the files of his mind.
Is like, who's Gail Dornic by the way, And Pritchard
is like his brain partially broken, has to he like
(08:55):
immediately flees the party.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
I cannot in this situation.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
He's off planet in one hundred forty five seconds.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It's actually crazy.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
I he was like, this is too much for me.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I'm out. He knew his limits, and it was having
his brain scoured beta.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Meanwhile, smart idea is like, wait a second, the sky
gigantic Kiss appears to be central to.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
The Mule's entire things.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
The mule appears to be taking this guy from planet
to planet. Why don't we grab him and find out
what he knows? Meanwhile, Torren, seeing how Pritch failed, figures, Okay,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Maybe I can do better.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Uh look at my chest, Look at my abs.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I'm going up there.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
He's like, no one would ever think I'm trying to
get any info.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
Don't think about my brain. Just look at these abs.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Baby, can I rip through my mind through my body?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Say some of the most cut acting talent working to
day Baby Foundation, Pritch, Torn Mallows and of course and
Day like shredded guy.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Well, I was going to say as well, Like the
biggest rumor right now is that Lee Pace is going
to be the DCU batman.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
That's like the biggest room of room of.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Mil I'm saying Lee Pace said, I think that he
was in conversation about it. That has to be from
this show. Like, no question, I know James Gunn is
watching this show thinking, oh he's tall, he's cut he
can be like really weird six four baby, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Like batmanful. Torren goes over there and you know, under
the cover of like oh I'm streaming this still, like hey,
chat check it.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Out and with the Mule or on can I can subscribe?
Subscribe up with the mule?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
You want to know about him? I'm gonna have a
drink with this guy.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So the Mule is kind of tickled by Torrent and
is like, hey, it's a it's a cultural thing. On
my plan it that we trade insults.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
Let's roast.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Just do it, roast battle and Torren gets pretty deep.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
He does pretty well.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
The mules impressed, and the Mule tells Torren because of this,
He's like, listen, I don't want to just rule Kalgan,
like this is a small change.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Chat you on me? You got the two gett.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I want I want the galaxy chat and then he
and then he like begins to peel like an orange,
the palm, the skin off Torren's pom as he's.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Telling them this.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
So Torren, quick thinking, he uses his stream cameras with
like on flash mode to distract the Mule, and then
he and Beta flee the party with magnet with magnificent interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Abo thoughts on the Mule and this and.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
This, this meeting confrontation between the spies of Foundation one
and the Mule.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
You know, I really pret she ate Beta stepping into
the limelight in this scene, because Beta is such a
great character in the books as well, and folks underestimate
Beta in the books, right.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, little girl, who are you?
Speaker 4 (12:11):
What are you getting into? You're in over your head?
And then we see time and time again Beta surprise everybody. Yeah,
and so I think seeing her step up in this
moment and actually do something that Pritch should have thought
of in the first place. Mister master Spy, you ran away?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Hey, yeah, I'm like you.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I really like both of those ideas of using the
stream and talking to Magnifico so much better than Pritch
is just like, hey are you the Mule? Like no,
this guy is like a he's you know, he can
read people's minds, you can break people's minds. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
It was a little skeptical in the first couple episodes
when Beta and Mallow were introduced as these like influencer
TikTok influencer kids, and I was like, Okay, that's an
interesting reinterpretation of these characters, but I do feel like
we're going back to the core of the characters.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah. Yeah, We go to trantour Day is with his
companion's song. They go to the barracks to watch the
soldiers shower.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Weird vibe.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Day finds his the commander who he's been gambling with
over you know, these last several months and perhaps longer,
and he's like, listen, you're gonna help me and my
girlfriend sneak out of the palace and you can come
with by the way, like it must. You know, don't
worry about any repercussions because you'll be with me. We'll
(13:41):
get out of here. And if you help, I'm going
to make sure that your daughter, who is ill, will
be healed by He doesn't say it here, but the
implication clearly is the healing nanites that the emperor has.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
It will give them some of these.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
So Dawn sees Demarzelle kind of walking through the gardens,
and he tells his companion that Demarzell's a robots.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
She is shocked by that.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
No one's supposed to know this, of course, but excuse me,
Day spies Demarzell. But of course day Is Day is
like fully checked out of everything that's happened.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Why do you I want to know, why do you
think he tells song that? Because I I feel like
that's going to have like massive ramifications.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
I think he's he's gone a little soft, right like Empire. Yeah,
all three empires are always raised as the emperors of
this galaxy. They know how to do politics, they know
how to do espionage and subterfusion and manipulation. And I
think this day in particular is a bit of a
(14:51):
lover boy. He is in love and this is this
is his way of saying I love you, I trust you.
We're about to do this crazy thing together. We're going
to escape the PA and go off on her own.
So you know what harm does it do to tell you?
Speaker 3 (15:05):
That makes a lot of sense because also Demoiselas also
like has a lot of control over his life, like
his kind of for this this like spooky presence to
him in this escape.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
So yeah, I like that read. I think that's right.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I was actually very shocked when that happened though, because
I was like, this is like top secret, like last
Immortal Robot.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
I feel like you shouldn't be saying something, But I
like your love a boy.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Read that's.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Don and Dusk are arguing about the Mule, about what
to do about it. De Marcel senses this schism and
the tension. Dusk doesn't, frankly, understand why this is important
at all, and of course he is. His mind is
completely on the fact that in three or four days
he's going to be evaporated, and that's really what he's
(16:07):
thinking about, honestly, fat Don says. Don says, the Mule
is dangerous. We know he's been talking to Gail, so
I'm sure Gail has been telling him Don, the Mule
is dangerous. He can put thoughts in your mind. And
that's why when we have our little conference with the Mule,
we should do it over video chat. So Don pitches
the Mule on Kligan becoming part of the empire and
(16:30):
if you refuse, you know, that could mean war. The
Mule says, great war.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I love it. That's what I'm hoping.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Meanwhile, the Mule and his pirates are just like fully
looting Kalgan.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
They're actually that they take over the MTA station. That's
what they're doing. In that moment. Oh wow, he says
something like the one of the officers says something like, Okay,
we've locked down the station, and so I think this
hints to us that the Mule has greater ambitions and
that he's actually seizing the means of transportation around calganhu Oh, I's.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
So interesting, Like he's doing again crazy, just looting doing something,
but really he has like this big a plan.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Interesting.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Yeah, And that was one of the threats from Don right.
Don was like, well, one of the things if you
join Empire, one of the things we can offer you
is access to the transportation system, the galactic transportation system,
the travel gates. You will be able to expand if
you want to. And so I think the fact that
he's just out here he was like Cathinkingham, Yeah, he's
(17:33):
taking them himself. He doesn't need Empire was the importation
I think.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
On transwer various secret plans are taking shape. Days.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Discussing his escape plan with Song, she is like, Okay,
but I'm scared of Demarzel now now that I know
she's a robot. I'm like really freaked out about her,
and maybe we should just stay because it's she would know.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Right, and we get caught. It's too weird, and it's.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It's actually scary out beyond up beyond the palace, like
let's stay here, and days like no, absolutely not, like
and by the way, let's just do let's just like
to have a normal chill day.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
For Yeah, could we just have a chill day.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
But before they can do that, Demosel is like, Day,
come see me in the library. We need to talk
in the throne room. Dusk and Dawn are continuing to
argue about the mule. Dawn says, Hey, I've got an
idea that I definitely didn't get from Gail Dornet. We
should put under blockade. Yeah, but we should seal it off.
(18:35):
We should seal off Calgan and Day shows up and
he's like, what's going on here? Dusk and Dawn think
Day is acting very strange. Dawn wants Day to call
because he's really the main guy. He's the theory. He's
still structurally the main emperor. So they're like pressuring him, listen,
(18:55):
you need to call an emergency session of the council. Uh,
so we can discuss this mule stuff in the blockade.
Den Marosela is like, no, because if we do that,
that would be giving, that would be basically telling the
council that we can't do anything without them. Either we
do it unilateral unilaterally, or we don't do it. But
if we, if we bring in the Council, that will
(19:17):
embolden them. Don is like, okay, fine, but can we
at least put the kalgan in the mule under twenty
four to seven surveillance. It's not clear that any of
that is going to happen. Day produces a flask drinks
to strength, wisdom, and fortitude.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
They all follow.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Suit and the Cleons have a nice moment together and
it's very clear that you know the the ascension day
is coming, and this is like a moment where they're
all like, okay, hey, we're all moving up and one
of us is moving out.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yeah, some of us is later it's going to die.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, one of us is not going to be here.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Really, this was my favorite scene in the episode. First
tell me why. In particular, I liked the staging and framing,
the fact that all three of them are doing the
same hand motions throughout the way they sit in front
of their thrones, and the way that shot in particular
was framed I thought was really beautiful. And then I
really want to hand it to foundation. I think this
(20:10):
is a show that's not afraid to slow down and
dwell on moments like this, Like, yeah, we spent quite
a few minutes just hanging out here with these three
brothers slash clones, understanding that at the end of the day,
like they are Empire, they are clones on the first
whatever they are and whatever they're supposed to be, at
(20:31):
the end of the day, they are still humans. Yeah,
and this is a very human moment for three brothers
to share it together. I appreciated that the show took
the time to dwell on that.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I love that read because you know, definitely with season three,
I've been seeing a lot more like this is Game
of Thrones in space, like you go to jump in
and this scene definitely gave me that throwback feeling too.
I'm not going to be able to remember the episode name, Jason,
I'm sure you will, but you know, the episode.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
Before the bowel where it's just all.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Of them in the room, like having a conversation, sharing stories.
I love those kind of things, and I think you're right,
a boo, they spent more time here than I expected,
just allowing them to have that moment, you know, and
just kind of the gravitas of what's happening and the
importance of those characters being together and what it really
(21:22):
means to be one of them, because we mostly just
see like the scheming or the loving or the kind
of the fun parts, the scary parts, the terrible parts.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
So yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I think that's great, a great moment and also something
that's important in a story that has so much going on,
Like there is so much law, so much kind of
important spycraft and plot lines and and and spaces and scenes.
So I love that this, this gives that a little
(21:52):
bit of time to breathe.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So Day meets with his commander gambling buddy, and the
commanders agreed, I'll sneak you out, but here's what you
guys need to do. You guys need to dress like shit,
you and your girlfriend so that nobody's gonna nobody's gonna
nobody's gonna look at you and days like. In return
for this, I'm gonna get you like a nice water
future for your future. Later, Demarzel comes to see down
(22:19):
at his garden palace.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
Which we love, like come on iconic.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Where a song. Don is like, where is she?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Demarselle is like, well, basically hinting that she's dead or
as good as dead, and says that because songs ancient
religion had to do with robots, that was really bad
that you told her that, because she was not going
to be able to let that little bit of information go.
You know, her religion worships the robots. This is gonna
(22:50):
be this, this type of cult is gonna be important
going for it's a very ancient robot worshiping cult. And
Demarcel says, you know, I could have killed her, but
instead what I did is I just like wiped her
memories and sent her back where she came from.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So that's it.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And I did it for you. Bye, and days like
out and that is the end of episode three or three.
And I there's so many things happening, and there's so
many plots within plots, which is really fun. Aboo your
thoughts on this episode.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I'm having a great time with this season so far,
and I had a great time with this episode. I
think there were some highlights. In particular, I think the
mule scene with Beta and Mallow was really great. I
already called out the wonderful scene between the Empires where
we got to see them be human and honestly, I
will say this final scene where Demerzel is talking today
(23:55):
kind of made me emotional because Demerzel, I think she
specifically says at one point, like I don't have a
lot of choices in my life. Not killing your girlfriend
is a choice I made for you. That is how
I can show you my love. I could have killed her,
(24:15):
and in fact I should have killed her. That would
have been the way to actually nip this in the bud.
But I know you loved her, or at least you
felt something for her. So I made a choice, the
only kind of choice I can within the parameters that
I have to operate in as a robot. And I
think a big through line in this season that we
set up in the first couple episodes is this character
arc for Demerzel coming to terms with what's next for her,
(24:39):
what her own purpose is, what happens when Empire falls,
what does her future look like, and has she made
all of the right choices up to this point. She's
dealing with a lot of quote unquote human guilt but
has to work through it within the framework of her
robot processing. So I really appreciate you get.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
The sense too that she doesn't even fully she's because
of like her sessions that she's having with Zephyr, where
she's trying to unpack like what what are my what
am I doing?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Like what what.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Are my intentions? Am I here trying to help empire?
Or am I working against them? Or or what do
I know about myself? You get you really get the
sense that she doesn't know from minute to minute exactly
why she is doing the things that previously made so
(25:30):
much sense to her before. And it's really interesting to
watch the different emperors like grapple with the fact that like, hey,
in four months, this shit is older us and for
for for for dusk, excuse me, it's over even quick
sooner than that, And all of them while pretending that oh,
(25:52):
we're dealing with the mule, and we're dealing with the foundation,
We're dealing with all these things kind of normal things right,
even though they are they're various crisis situations. All of
them are also thinking, Okay, I need my exit strategy
days like get me out it don is like I
think this whole thing is gonna come apart unless I
(26:13):
lie with Gail Dornick, who I don't even know actually
who she works for at this moment, and then Dusk
is Dusk made a.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I don't even know why.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Is that like a universe destroying bomb, like the most
extensive bomb, Like it doesn't It was over the top.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
It wasn't just like a little bomb.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
It wasn't like an anarchist cupbook bomb like this.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I mean, by the way, have you seen this video
of me like trying to run away while being from
my execution?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And also like can we push that deadline back?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
By the way, I was gonna say a boo and Jason,
both of you know more about this than me. Something
I'm really feeling about season three is like it feels
like it's a lot about kind of the way that
people don't really have choice in this world, Like everything
is set out for you for the good of you know,
whatever side you're on.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
And I found that that was really interesting.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
And I think that's why the demoisel thing hits because
just like the human you know, inverted commas clone characters,
which everyone to think she actually like wants, has wants
and needs and things that she liked, but she doesn't.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
She isn't allowed to put them out there.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
And that moment where she makes the choice to allow
someone to live, I think is just really powerful in
a world where kind of everyone is trying to run
away from the fact that they don't have a choice
in their life. They don't really they can't choose anything
because everything is set out ahead of them. Over All
this kind of insane amount of period of time that
you can't even.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
Really consider how long it is.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I just think it's a I think it's a really
interesting thing for sci fi to explore in a way
that we haven't really seen before on this Gael Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I mean the question of like predestination lingers over this
entire series over the is it even possible? And I
think like what's always so interesting is like this is
also just the question of fate and faith, right, and
it's just put in scientific terms. It's psychohistory and Harry
Selden as your prophet versus you know, whatever religion and
(28:23):
whatever prophet you know insert name and certain religion, and
ultimately it still comes down to the same human questions, right,
Like we are still watching Empire, all three of them
crash out because.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
They're just like PRIs absolutely in.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
The face of a faith they they didn't believe in
in season one and in fact rejected and now have
come around to where to the point where Don is
like looking for the ancient texts and out here communicating
with Gail Dornic, one of the leaders of this you know,
the foundation. So like that question, Sho, definitely, Rosie, You're
(29:01):
absolutely correct. This idea of how much autonomy and choice
do I have if the math shows this is what's
going to happen. That lingers over every character, over every
book of this series, and it's one of the most
interesting parts of.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
It for sure.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, yeah, I think that for me. There's like a
quantum mechanics idea here too, where oh, you know, the
idea that when you observe something, you naturally change it,
And I think that's happening here too, where sure, maybe
Selden's formula was accurate, but as soon as you start
(29:36):
paying attention to as soon as that has been revealed
to you, the future.
Speaker 5 (29:41):
Is changing now because you're aware of it.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Because you're aware of it, and we're seeing that all
the time, where you know, the math is way off.
The dark Ages are coming in four months. Nobody knows
why the math is off. But except for all these
like huge variables that have been introduced, like the mule
and like Gail Dornic currently being a lot, you know,
all these all these things that weren't in the original formula.
(30:06):
And it's interesting because I think what it's saying is, yes,
we do have free will, but but you can't necessarily
square that any kind of prediction of the future. Yeah,
because as soon as you become aware of a prediction
of the future, you've changed it enough where the prediction
(30:28):
is going to be off enough somehow.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Okay, fun episode, Yeah, Love.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Next time an extra vision, we're gathering our round table
for a deep dive on Fantastic for first Steps. Thank
you to our our spice master a Boot again for Foundation.
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening by x Ray.
(30:54):
Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsi, I'm Rosy Night and
is a production of iHeart Podcasts Are.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
And Fay Wag.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Heidi our discord moderator,
Warning, this episode contains spoilers for a Foundation season three
episode three. Hello, my name is Jason Sepsion and I'm
(00:24):
Rosy Night, and welcome back to x ray Vision of
the podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics,
and pop culture.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
We're here and iHeart podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
We'll bring you three episodes every week Tuesday Thursday, and.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
The summer's biggest movies every Friday, plus news on Saturday,
plus news.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
In today's episode, most importantly for me, as a new
space traveler in the world of Foundation, we are bringing
back our spice Master.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
A boo, A boo.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I think this interests This is an episode that really
I have a lot of questions about in broadens the
wild a little bit, so let's talk about it.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
I'm really excited to do this with you guys.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Episode three, season three, When a Book Finds You. We
open three years ago, flashback to the library where Don
current Don was down. Then rise to the library and
he's like, I what do you got on psychohistory? Give
me all the books on psychohistory, and the library is like, ahaa,
I'll take you to see the old books, and they
(01:29):
go back there. And what's very interesting is it's very
clear here that down is beginning to become work.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Is psychohistory curious? Hold on, do we get it wrong?
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Maybe did cleon the whatever the whichever one he was back? Then?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Do we get it wrong?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Is psychohistory a lot more interesting with a lot more
to tell us about the world than we thought?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Is that the case?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So he goes back there and they show him I
believe it's the ninth Book of Folding book right, which
is a Callan's ninth ninth Theorem of Folding, which was
a very a very important book, a source book for
Harry Seldon's work. And Donn is like, well, how did
(02:23):
you even get this book? And the library is like
super super cagey about it and is like, by the way,
the person who left the book here said that if
anybody ever came looking for it, that we should tell them.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So I'm going to do that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And guess who it was who left that little message
and who brought the book back? It was Gaild her
periods of being awake when she was not frozen. Who
knows when this could have been like aboo, any idea
timeline wise when this might have happened.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I I'm unclear on that.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
No, I think it's got to be some time after
her for awakening, the first time she was unfrozen.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, I think anyway, so day, I mean, excuse me.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Dusk, all disguised up, goes to a tea house to
meet this mysterious person.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It's Gail Dorning and they begin plotting together.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
He's like, how are you still alive? She's like, weird
question coming from you, but it's cryos.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Come on, my guy, Like, what do you mean you
think of anyone?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Who else is it going to be?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So apparently Gail and the Foundation have been using the
Ninth Book as like a lure for.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
People who are.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Have the same kind of mindset as what Foundation is
looking for. And Gale and Dawn they kind of spar
back and forth about like whose fault everything is? And
Dawn eventually tells Gail that the Empire has the prime
Radiant that Harry Seldon gave it to him.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
This is a shock to Gail.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Don uh Is, like, listen, the data is obviously like
fucked and Demarzelle has been is the gate is the
Gatekeeper basically of the prime radiant data, and I believe
that she's interpreting the data in a way that is
only beneficial the Empire, not the galaxy, and I care
about the galaxy. So Gail's like, Okay, here's here's my
(04:25):
pitch escape Empire.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And we keep talking.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
We deal with the threat of the mule, which I'm
gonna tell you is a big deal, and Don is like,
I'll think about it, and he reaches out and then
his hand goes right through Gale's wrist.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
She's a hologram.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
A tough choice as far as disguises go. I'm not
so sure about the goate look for.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
A lot more.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Have you guys seen the movie pop Star Never Stop
Popping Iconic Lone Moe, one of the funniest movies ever made.
I always think about when anyone puts on a disguise.
I always think about the Andy Sambak character. He puts
on like a full face of makeup, and I'm like,
he does like a prostatic knows like that's how he
does it to hide from the press. And I always think,
I'm like, you guys are not doing enough what the
(05:14):
disguise is, Like, you got to really put that stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I mean, you gotta go full mission impossible.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Yeah, you need a fake mosque.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, the facial recognition technology. However, many thousands of years
in the future, this has got to be great.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
We go to the present.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Don reads a secret message, he destroys it. He gets
this little Gail communicator out and they start talking and
Gail tells Dawn that he needs to ask the council
to do like a siege, like let's let's let's completely
seal off Kalgan. Don is like, but, like, that's not
even imperial territory. It'll start a war with original og Foundation,
(05:53):
First Foundation. And Gail is like, let me handle the bitches.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
She said, I it's like she was like, She's like,
Harry Selden gave me this ninth proof manuscript and twelve
O sixty seven, Like, come.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
On, Mariam is a fucking pushover. And she's like, listen,
the mule. Nobody's getting it. We need to act now
because the mule quickly will become too strong for us
to deal with. And she warns Don that also it's
gonna sound crazy, okay, but the mule can control people's minds,
and Don was like, what he's like, peace and then
(06:31):
she hangs up Kalgan. It's the big party. It's the
Mule Party, Torn Beta and Preitch. The spies enter Spicy
with no shirt.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Can we talk about the outsits?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I love this. It's like, you know, it's kind of
like the opposite of being solid's like hiding and play insight.
He's like, I gotta look extra sexy that no one would.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Yeah, I mean he's live streaming. The whole thing is
a little like vlog Cambridge.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
So fun. Okay, so it's spy time.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
We see at the center of it all the Mules,
personal balladeer DJ Magnifico Giganticus.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
This is why is this.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Is the funnest fantastic This is like the most fun
episode of this season so far. There's so much like
in depth political lore and kind of and Spycroft like
stage setting that the first two episodes do. But this
episode is.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Like a blost everyone.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
They just sneaking on everyone and there's a potty I mean,
who doesn't want to be named Magnifico Giganticus is like
the best name of all time.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
Like that's that's a bad name than duncan Idaho.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Like, come on, man, I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
They drop a mike Sure, ask name on us magnifical
and magnifico. Giganticus plays like it appears to be a
highly advanced like Beats Bluetooth speaker and is just like,
has the room and trance that mule.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Come out of that speaker, But it's not connected.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
That the mule is just chilling watching it all. He's
with Scarlet and some other like his other top lieutenants.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Pritch comes over.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And bad idea. I think I don't know what Prichard
was thinking. Of course he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Really yeah, yeah, what was the planner?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
But of course he I guess theoretically isn't fully aware
of the mule's abilities, right, So the mule just like
is like, okay, great, I'm gonna scour your mind. Immediately
just goes like rifling through the files of his mind.
Is like, who's Gail Dornic by the way, And Pritchard
is like his brain partially broken, has to he like
(08:55):
immediately flees the party.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
I cannot in this situation.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
He's off planet in one hundred forty five seconds.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It's actually crazy.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
I he was like, this is too much for me.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I'm out. He knew his limits, and it was having
his brain scoured beta.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Meanwhile, smart idea is like, wait a second, the sky
gigantic Kiss appears to be central to.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
The Mule's entire things.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
The mule appears to be taking this guy from planet
to planet. Why don't we grab him and find out
what he knows? Meanwhile, Torren, seeing how Pritch failed, figures, Okay,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Maybe I can do better.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Uh look at my chest, Look at my abs.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I'm going up there.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
He's like, no one would ever think I'm trying to
get any info.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
Don't think about my brain. Just look at these abs.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Baby, can I rip through my mind through my body?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Say some of the most cut acting talent working to
day Baby Foundation, Pritch, Torn Mallows and of course and
Day like shredded guy.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Well, I was going to say as well, Like the
biggest rumor right now is that Lee Pace is going
to be the DCU batman.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
That's like the biggest room of room of.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Mil I'm saying Lee Pace said, I think that he
was in conversation about it. That has to be from
this show. Like, no question, I know James Gunn is
watching this show thinking, oh he's tall, he's cut he
can be like really weird six four baby, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Like batmanful. Torren goes over there and you know, under
the cover of like oh I'm streaming this still, like hey,
chat check it.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Out and with the Mule or on can I can subscribe?
Subscribe up with the mule?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
You want to know about him? I'm gonna have a
drink with this guy.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So the Mule is kind of tickled by Torrent and
is like, hey, it's a it's a cultural thing. On
my plan it that we trade insults.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
Let's roast.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Just do it, roast battle and Torren gets pretty deep.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
He does pretty well.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
The mules impressed, and the Mule tells Torren because of this,
He's like, listen, I don't want to just rule Kalgan,
like this is a small change.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Chat you on me? You got the two gett.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I want I want the galaxy chat and then he
and then he like begins to peel like an orange,
the palm, the skin off Torren's pom as he's.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Telling them this.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
So Torren, quick thinking, he uses his stream cameras with
like on flash mode to distract the Mule, and then
he and Beta flee the party with magnet with magnificent interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Abo thoughts on the Mule and this and.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
This, this meeting confrontation between the spies of Foundation one
and the Mule.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
You know, I really pret she ate Beta stepping into
the limelight in this scene, because Beta is such a
great character in the books as well, and folks underestimate
Beta in the books, right.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, little girl, who are you?
Speaker 4 (12:11):
What are you getting into? You're in over your head?
And then we see time and time again Beta surprise everybody. Yeah,
and so I think seeing her step up in this
moment and actually do something that Pritch should have thought
of in the first place. Mister master Spy, you ran away?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Hey, yeah, I'm like you.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I really like both of those ideas of using the
stream and talking to Magnifico so much better than Pritch
is just like, hey are you the Mule? Like no,
this guy is like a he's you know, he can
read people's minds, you can break people's minds. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
It was a little skeptical in the first couple episodes
when Beta and Mallow were introduced as these like influencer
TikTok influencer kids, and I was like, Okay, that's an
interesting reinterpretation of these characters, but I do feel like
we're going back to the core of the characters.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah. Yeah, We go to trantour Day is with his
companion's song. They go to the barracks to watch the
soldiers shower.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Weird vibe.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Day finds his the commander who he's been gambling with
over you know, these last several months and perhaps longer,
and he's like, listen, you're gonna help me and my
girlfriend sneak out of the palace and you can come
with by the way, like it must. You know, don't
worry about any repercussions because you'll be with me. We'll
(13:41):
get out of here. And if you help, I'm going
to make sure that your daughter, who is ill, will
be healed by He doesn't say it here, but the
implication clearly is the healing nanites that the emperor has.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
It will give them some of these.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
So Dawn sees Demarzelle kind of walking through the gardens,
and he tells his companion that Demarzell's a robots.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
She is shocked by that.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
No one's supposed to know this, of course, but excuse me,
Day spies Demarzell. But of course day Is Day is
like fully checked out of everything that's happened.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Why do you I want to know, why do you
think he tells song that? Because I I feel like
that's going to have like massive ramifications.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
I think he's he's gone a little soft, right like Empire. Yeah,
all three empires are always raised as the emperors of
this galaxy. They know how to do politics, they know
how to do espionage and subterfusion and manipulation. And I
think this day in particular is a bit of a
(14:51):
lover boy. He is in love and this is this
is his way of saying I love you, I trust you.
We're about to do this crazy thing together. We're going
to escape the PA and go off on her own.
So you know what harm does it do to tell you?
Speaker 3 (15:05):
That makes a lot of sense because also Demoiselas also
like has a lot of control over his life, like
his kind of for this this like spooky presence to
him in this escape.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
So yeah, I like that read. I think that's right.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I was actually very shocked when that happened though, because
I was like, this is like top secret, like last
Immortal Robot.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
I feel like you shouldn't be saying something, But I
like your love a boy.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Read that's.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Don and Dusk are arguing about the Mule, about what
to do about it. De Marcel senses this schism and
the tension. Dusk doesn't, frankly, understand why this is important
at all, and of course he is. His mind is
completely on the fact that in three or four days
he's going to be evaporated, and that's really what he's
(16:07):
thinking about, honestly, fat Don says. Don says, the Mule
is dangerous. We know he's been talking to Gail, so
I'm sure Gail has been telling him Don, the Mule
is dangerous. He can put thoughts in your mind. And
that's why when we have our little conference with the Mule,
we should do it over video chat. So Don pitches
the Mule on Kligan becoming part of the empire and
(16:30):
if you refuse, you know, that could mean war. The
Mule says, great war.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I love it. That's what I'm hoping.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Meanwhile, the Mule and his pirates are just like fully
looting Kalgan.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
They're actually that they take over the MTA station. That's
what they're doing. In that moment. Oh wow, he says
something like the one of the officers says something like, Okay,
we've locked down the station, and so I think this
hints to us that the Mule has greater ambitions and
that he's actually seizing the means of transportation around calganhu Oh, I's.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
So interesting, Like he's doing again crazy, just looting doing something,
but really he has like this big a plan.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Interesting.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Yeah, And that was one of the threats from Don right.
Don was like, well, one of the things if you
join Empire, one of the things we can offer you
is access to the transportation system, the galactic transportation system,
the travel gates. You will be able to expand if
you want to. And so I think the fact that
he's just out here he was like Cathinkingham, Yeah, he's
(17:33):
taking them himself. He doesn't need Empire was the importation
I think.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
On transwer various secret plans are taking shape. Days.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Discussing his escape plan with Song, she is like, Okay,
but I'm scared of Demarzel now now that I know
she's a robot. I'm like really freaked out about her,
and maybe we should just stay because it's she would know.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Right, and we get caught. It's too weird, and it's.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It's actually scary out beyond up beyond the palace, like
let's stay here, and days like no, absolutely not, like
and by the way, let's just do let's just like
to have a normal chill day.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
For Yeah, could we just have a chill day.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
But before they can do that, Demosel is like, Day,
come see me in the library. We need to talk
in the throne room. Dusk and Dawn are continuing to
argue about the mule. Dawn says, Hey, I've got an
idea that I definitely didn't get from Gail Dornet. We
should put under blockade. Yeah, but we should seal it off.
(18:35):
We should seal off Calgan and Day shows up and
he's like, what's going on here? Dusk and Dawn think
Day is acting very strange. Dawn wants Day to call
because he's really the main guy. He's the theory. He's
still structurally the main emperor. So they're like pressuring him, listen,
(18:55):
you need to call an emergency session of the council. Uh,
so we can discuss this mule stuff in the blockade.
Den Marosela is like, no, because if we do that,
that would be giving, that would be basically telling the
council that we can't do anything without them. Either we
do it unilateral unilaterally, or we don't do it. But
if we, if we bring in the Council, that will
(19:17):
embolden them. Don is like, okay, fine, but can we
at least put the kalgan in the mule under twenty
four to seven surveillance. It's not clear that any of
that is going to happen. Day produces a flask drinks
to strength, wisdom, and fortitude.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
They all follow.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Suit and the Cleons have a nice moment together and
it's very clear that you know the the ascension day
is coming, and this is like a moment where they're
all like, okay, hey, we're all moving up and one
of us is moving out.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yeah, some of us is later it's going to die.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, one of us is not going to be here.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Really, this was my favorite scene in the episode. First
tell me why. In particular, I liked the staging and framing,
the fact that all three of them are doing the
same hand motions throughout the way they sit in front
of their thrones, and the way that shot in particular
was framed I thought was really beautiful. And then I
really want to hand it to foundation. I think this
(20:10):
is a show that's not afraid to slow down and
dwell on moments like this, Like, yeah, we spent quite
a few minutes just hanging out here with these three
brothers slash clones, understanding that at the end of the day,
like they are Empire, they are clones on the first
whatever they are and whatever they're supposed to be, at
(20:31):
the end of the day, they are still humans. Yeah,
and this is a very human moment for three brothers
to share it together. I appreciated that the show took
the time to dwell on that.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I love that read because you know, definitely with season three,
I've been seeing a lot more like this is Game
of Thrones in space, like you go to jump in
and this scene definitely gave me that throwback feeling too.
I'm not going to be able to remember the episode name, Jason,
I'm sure you will, but you know, the episode.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
Before the bowel where it's just all.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Of them in the room, like having a conversation, sharing stories.
I love those kind of things, and I think you're right,
a boo, they spent more time here than I expected,
just allowing them to have that moment, you know, and
just kind of the gravitas of what's happening and the
importance of those characters being together and what it really
(21:22):
means to be one of them, because we mostly just
see like the scheming or the loving or the kind
of the fun parts, the scary parts, the terrible parts.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
So yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I think that's great, a great moment and also something
that's important in a story that has so much going on,
Like there is so much law, so much kind of
important spycraft and plot lines and and and spaces and scenes.
So I love that this, this gives that a little
(21:52):
bit of time to breathe.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So Day meets with his commander gambling buddy, and the
commanders agreed, I'll sneak you out, but here's what you
guys need to do. You guys need to dress like shit,
you and your girlfriend so that nobody's gonna nobody's gonna
nobody's gonna look at you and days like. In return
for this, I'm gonna get you like a nice water
future for your future. Later, Demarzel comes to see down
(22:19):
at his garden palace.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
Which we love, like come on iconic.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Where a song. Don is like, where is she?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Demarselle is like, well, basically hinting that she's dead or
as good as dead, and says that because songs ancient
religion had to do with robots, that was really bad
that you told her that, because she was not going
to be able to let that little bit of information go.
You know, her religion worships the robots. This is gonna
(22:50):
be this, this type of cult is gonna be important
going for it's a very ancient robot worshiping cult. And
Demarcel says, you know, I could have killed her, but
instead what I did is I just like wiped her
memories and sent her back where she came from.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So that's it.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And I did it for you. Bye, and days like
out and that is the end of episode three or three.
And I there's so many things happening, and there's so
many plots within plots, which is really fun. Aboo your
thoughts on this episode.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I'm having a great time with this season so far,
and I had a great time with this episode. I
think there were some highlights. In particular, I think the
mule scene with Beta and Mallow was really great. I
already called out the wonderful scene between the Empires where
we got to see them be human and honestly, I
will say this final scene where Demerzel is talking today
(23:55):
kind of made me emotional because Demerzel, I think she
specifically says at one point, like I don't have a
lot of choices in my life. Not killing your girlfriend
is a choice I made for you. That is how
I can show you my love. I could have killed her,
(24:15):
and in fact I should have killed her. That would
have been the way to actually nip this in the bud.
But I know you loved her, or at least you
felt something for her. So I made a choice, the
only kind of choice I can within the parameters that
I have to operate in as a robot. And I
think a big through line in this season that we
set up in the first couple episodes is this character
arc for Demerzel coming to terms with what's next for her,
(24:39):
what her own purpose is, what happens when Empire falls,
what does her future look like, and has she made
all of the right choices up to this point. She's
dealing with a lot of quote unquote human guilt but
has to work through it within the framework of her
robot processing. So I really appreciate you get.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
The sense too that she doesn't even fully she's because
of like her sessions that she's having with Zephyr, where
she's trying to unpack like what what are my what
am I doing?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Like what what.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Are my intentions? Am I here trying to help empire?
Or am I working against them? Or or what do
I know about myself? You get you really get the
sense that she doesn't know from minute to minute exactly
why she is doing the things that previously made so
(25:30):
much sense to her before. And it's really interesting to
watch the different emperors like grapple with the fact that like, hey,
in four months, this shit is older us and for
for for for dusk, excuse me, it's over even quick
sooner than that, And all of them while pretending that oh,
(25:52):
we're dealing with the mule, and we're dealing with the foundation,
We're dealing with all these things kind of normal things right,
even though they are they're various crisis situations. All of
them are also thinking, Okay, I need my exit strategy
days like get me out it don is like I
think this whole thing is gonna come apart unless I
(26:13):
lie with Gail Dornick, who I don't even know actually
who she works for at this moment, and then Dusk
is Dusk made a.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I don't even know why.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Is that like a universe destroying bomb, like the most
extensive bomb, Like it doesn't It was over the top.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
It wasn't just like a little bomb.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
It wasn't like an anarchist cupbook bomb like this.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I mean, by the way, have you seen this video
of me like trying to run away while being from
my execution?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And also like can we push that deadline back?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
By the way, I was gonna say a boo and Jason,
both of you know more about this than me. Something
I'm really feeling about season three is like it feels
like it's a lot about kind of the way that
people don't really have choice in this world, Like everything
is set out for you for the good of you know,
whatever side you're on.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
And I found that that was really interesting.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
And I think that's why the demoisel thing hits because
just like the human you know, inverted commas clone characters,
which everyone to think she actually like wants, has wants
and needs and things that she liked, but she doesn't.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
She isn't allowed to put them out there.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
And that moment where she makes the choice to allow
someone to live, I think is just really powerful in
a world where kind of everyone is trying to run
away from the fact that they don't have a choice
in their life. They don't really they can't choose anything
because everything is set out ahead of them. Over All
this kind of insane amount of period of time that
you can't even.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
Really consider how long it is.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I just think it's a I think it's a really
interesting thing for sci fi to explore in a way
that we haven't really seen before on this Gael Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I mean the question of like predestination lingers over this
entire series over the is it even possible? And I
think like what's always so interesting is like this is
also just the question of fate and faith, right, and
it's just put in scientific terms. It's psychohistory and Harry
Selden as your prophet versus you know, whatever religion and
(28:23):
whatever prophet you know insert name and certain religion, and
ultimately it still comes down to the same human questions, right,
Like we are still watching Empire, all three of them
crash out because.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
They're just like PRIs absolutely in.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
The face of a faith they they didn't believe in
in season one and in fact rejected and now have
come around to where to the point where Don is
like looking for the ancient texts and out here communicating
with Gail Dornic, one of the leaders of this you know,
the foundation. So like that question, Sho, definitely, Rosie, You're
(29:01):
absolutely correct. This idea of how much autonomy and choice
do I have if the math shows this is what's
going to happen. That lingers over every character, over every
book of this series, and it's one of the most
interesting parts of.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
It for sure.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, yeah, I think that for me. There's like a
quantum mechanics idea here too, where oh, you know, the
idea that when you observe something, you naturally change it,
And I think that's happening here too, where sure, maybe
Selden's formula was accurate, but as soon as you start
(29:36):
paying attention to as soon as that has been revealed
to you, the future.
Speaker 5 (29:41):
Is changing now because you're aware of it.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Because you're aware of it, and we're seeing that all
the time, where you know, the math is way off.
The dark Ages are coming in four months. Nobody knows
why the math is off. But except for all these
like huge variables that have been introduced, like the mule
and like Gail Dornic currently being a lot, you know,
all these all these things that weren't in the original formula.
(30:06):
And it's interesting because I think what it's saying is, yes,
we do have free will, but but you can't necessarily
square that any kind of prediction of the future. Yeah,
because as soon as you become aware of a prediction
of the future, you've changed it enough where the prediction
(30:28):
is going to be off enough somehow.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Okay, fun episode, Yeah, Love.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Next time an extra vision, we're gathering our round table
for a deep dive on Fantastic for first Steps. Thank
you to our our spice master a Boot again for Foundation.
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening by x Ray.
(30:54):
Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsi, I'm Rosy Night and
is a production of iHeart Podcasts Are.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
And Fay Wag.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Heidi our discord moderator,
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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