September 1, 2025 • 43 mins
Jason and Abu recap and dive deep into the eigth episode of Foundation season three. Day is put on trial, the Mule confronts Hari Seldon, and Gaal arrives on New Terminus for the final showdown.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning today's episode canad spoilers for Foundation season three episode.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Eight, Skin in the Game. You warn't Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
My name is Jason Concepcion and my name's a boo
and welcome back to x Ray Vision of the podcast
where we dive me pet your favorite shows, movies, comics,
and pop up culture coming to you from our podcast
where we're bringing you episodes every Tuesday Thursday. Plus we're
discussing the summer's biggest movies every Friday, and news on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Today, Jason, we are continuing our journey across the Empire.
We're gonna be talking about Foundation season three, episode eight.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Let's dive immediately into it. Foundation season three episode eight,
Skin in the Game. We open outside of the vault
where the Mule has just got done telling Harry his
backstory as we saw in the flashback in episode seven.
(01:13):
Harry then puts all a little clues together from that
flashback and goes, oh, let's see big Spinach, monocrop planet,
heavy Imperial quotas I'm guessing Rassam is that right? And
he Harry then shares his own you know background. He's like, listen,
I know I know a lot about the heavy hand
(01:36):
of empire when you feel it weighing on your shoulder,
and how taro all that can be. So you know,
let's talk, let's make a deal. Harry and the Mule,
you know, come to a conversation where they're you know,
you know, kind of like moving around the idea of
(01:56):
can we deal with each other? They're not sure, but
they're kind of poking around the Mule very clearly. He
knows what he wants, and he's wanted it for a while.
He wants Gail. He wants this woman who's hounding him
in the second in Harry's Hidden Second Foundation, like give
up her location because I'm tired of her hunting me
across time. And Harry is like, Gail Dornic, Yeah, Gail
(02:19):
Dornic helped me out with some stuff like three hundred
and forty years ago.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
You know, help me bring up like point, very very random.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
She helped me with some stuff for that big Imperial
meeting back in season one, which again.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Is like over three centuries ago.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, but she died, you know, back in the day,
way way way long ago. And the Mule is like, listen,
very funny, ha ha ha, gil me Gail or I'm
going to destroy this planet. I'm gonna blow up the
vault and then your little project.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Is is done.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And then he realizes, wait a second, you're not fooling around.
You actually don't know that Gail is a lot. And
then he's like, oh wow, now I'm kind of disappointed,
like the great Harry Seldon, and you're just kind of
like this ghost in this box that doesn't know what's happening.
Like right now, Harry comes back in him and I'm
(03:16):
I got a lot of respect for hologram Harry after this,
because I have to say, I kind of arrived at
where the mule arrived seconds ago, much earlier.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The hologram Harry.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Is the out of it Harry who is adhering to
this plan that has long since gone off the rails.
He pops out of his little vault like every so
often to being like, Hi, I'm Harry, I'm still around
and a great plan blah blah blah blah blah, and
then he goes away and he is completely disconnected.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
He doesn't know anything.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
But then Harry says, oh, yeah, I feel you searching
around and whatever. This hologram mind of mine is trying
to find little secrets you can't do it because I'm
not like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
And by the way, I watch this null field.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Boom traps the mule in the null field and is
like a bat like draining him, gonna squeeze him his
very essence to to nothing, until like all that's left
is this dry husk of a mule. But then he
spares his life. Shockingly, God, I could and I'm like,
wait what? And then he lords over the mules, you know,
(04:27):
standing over the moon, and It's like, yeah, I could have.
I could have done you in, but you're interesting to
me right now.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
You have some little secrets in.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Your little mind that I would like to unlock, and
so I want to unlock those first before I kill
you in a null field, I guess. And then Harry
just strides off, Yeah, what do you think that secret is?
Because I was trying to figure that out.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
What is this? What is the secret that the mule has?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
You know, I hadn't given that much thought.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I don't think that Harry believes that this is the
mule's true backstory. Are you really from Rossum?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Did you actually.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Grow up on Big Spinach? Like?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Right?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I think Harry wants to learn the true origins of
the Mule, because I do think Hologram Harry, between what
the foundationers told him and now this confrontation with the Mule,
is starting to put together how much he doesn't know
about what's going on in the galaxy. And I think
learning about the Mule's origins might be something that he
(05:30):
thinks he can plug back into his equation in order
to fix his plan to get it back on track.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I think that's right.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I think that he's he's he caught a glimpse of
like another wheel within the game that he was not
aware of, and.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Weirdly is excited by it.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I mean, you get a feeling that Hologram Harry was
kind of on autopilot for many, many years, and it's this,
you know, with decided, I've got it all planned out
and it's running on rails at this point and I
barely need to be here. But I think this has
like rekindled his passion for fucking around in galactic politics.
And I think he's fired up and engaged Hologram Harry now,
(06:14):
and I'm very excited to see what that means, considering
he has no body, he has no constituency, really anymore.
It's everything's you know, the foundation one has fallen apart,
So what can he really do?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I'm excited to see.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, I appreciate that hologram Harry. I think I mentioned
this early on in our coverage of this season, but
Halo Graham Harry is like Harry one point zero. He's
like still the arrogant has asshole Harry. We met like
the episode one of the show without the character development
and growth alongside Gail. That real life body Harry got
(06:47):
in season two, season three, so good, Like the edges
definitely softened for real life Harry, I think. And it's
really fun to go back to this og like kind
of dickhead Harry.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Dig Harry because dick Harry one point zero would not
have built other people's statues before his own.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
He would have built his first.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Absolutely and he got the statue.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Right, but he would have built it first.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Body Harry is like, I I appreciate what everybody else
has done.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Let me build their statues then I'll I'll really work
on it. Growth, significant growth.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
We go to Micagen the Layer of the Sun Master,
God and Man the Sun Master. This guy loves his job.
There's nobody I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
If anyone he's in there.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
He's got his Loki staff stopped by the you know,
topped by the skull of a genuine robot. Folks, this
is a genuine robot skull. And he tells Day, you're
about to go on trial for crimes against our religion
and robots in general. Elsewhere on the surface, Demarsela it
returns to Trantor informs Dusk of Dawn's demise elsewhere in
(08:15):
the galaxy, and Dusk goes off to UH to a
meeting with Ambassador Quent, and he vents his heartbreak upon her,
basically saying, oh, that kid, that kid Dawn, he had everything,
he had the future, the future was brite for him.
And yeah, I can't believe that kid.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
He was right here under my wing and now he's gone.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
He's dead, and it doesn't mean anything that galaxy is
falling apart, and Ambassador quents without telling him. An Ambassador
Quent has been nothing but an incredible try. It is
true that like her, she could be handed over to
(09:05):
the Mule at any time, and thus she is she
must kind of be this type of prison, but she
really is, Like listen, don forget the clone stuff. I
have to believe that every clone is, yes, genetically a
copy of a person, but also they're a person in
(09:28):
their own right, and therefore down what is the galaxy
lost in the miracle that was down his own person
more than a clone.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
He's gone.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I offer you my sincere condolences, Dusk, and they are
about to like really kind of commiserate over this, but
then an ambassador comes up and Dusk is getting pulled
into some very very important imperial meetings with a triumvirate
of ambassadors who are not on Zoom.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
They're here get out of the worst kind of meeting,
the kind in the office.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Before we move on from this scene, I do want
to say the ambassador says something here that really resonated
with me. I think is really touches on a big
theme in this story. She says that she was raised
to believe that one individual person could not change the galaxy,
but that she believes we do change each other. You
(10:27):
can't affect the entire galaxy, but you can affect the
people around you. I just thought that was really beautiful
and heartfelt and really resonant with the core ideas of
this whole story.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I was touched by that as well.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And I also and there's another layer two of it,
which is I found a little sinister, because of course
she is the ambassador Foundation. She is an adherent to
the philosophies of psychohistory and the teachings of original now
hologram Harry. And it isn't it so like Harry to,
while as a singular man attempting to affect history, basically
(11:05):
close that door behind you and tell everybody, by the way,
you can't do this, can do this, okay, be good
to each other.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I'll be in the vault. We go back to Mica.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Jen Song is told by uh sun Master that listen,
sorry about it, but the whole reason that he's down
here is because of you. So you kind of have to.
It's a formality, but you gotta sit next to him
up there on the dais uh. And then, by the way,
I'm gonna make your partner the prosecutor, so just roll
(11:46):
with it. This is just a procedure. So then sun Master,
you know, launches into his incredibly dramatic reading of the charges,
which are basically, you know, crime against their religion, the enslavement.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Of robots, the.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Destruction of all robots, which is the doings of Cleon one.
But still we're going to since you are the clone,
we're going to charge.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
You with these things.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
And then the audience begins to chant and it activates
the robots.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Skull a top sun Master's staff.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
In the throne room, Dusk is meeting with the Galactic Council,
the Cloud Dominion and the Lumens, the Zephyr of the
Lumens to basically try and put out this fire that
is the Mule, and they basically flex immediately. They say, listen,
where are your other brother emperors.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
They're not here.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And we represent a substantial power set within the empire
five trillion people, and we want a voice in this
confrontation with the Mule because you have no choice but
to include us, because you have nothing now your power
is int tatters. And so here's what we are proposing, Dusk,
(13:12):
who by the way, is going to be out of
here in forty nine hours, like so that you know
more evidence that your power is built on sands that
are shifting and have indeed shifted way beyond your control.
We want to surrender Trantor to the Mule to basically
placate him while we get our shit together to confront him.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
What do you say about that?
Speaker 4 (13:35):
And Dusk is like, how dare you the seat of empire,
Empire high empire, well without without the kleos, what sort
of empire?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Cand we have?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
We have a heart and the soul of empire. And
Ambassador Cannon is like, let's look at the facts again, Donna,
day are missing. You're gonna get put up the pope
chimney as smoke. In forty nine hours, you're gone. Okay,
they're decanning another one. And ultimately it was the Luminists,
(14:09):
who have trillions and trillions and trillions of adherents across
the galaxy, who swung us in this direction. It was
kind of them saying, yes, you should do this, so
we have the authority and the legitimacy to make this decision.
And Dusky is absolutely furious. De Marselle steps in, No,
(14:30):
we're not doing this. This discussion goes no further, and
Ken is basically like, it's not discussion, like we're doing it, bye, goodbye.
So this is a huge I mean empire. These three
would argue empire is gone. Essentially at this point, it
has fallen. It is a fact that it has fallen,
(14:50):
and I think they're right back in Micagen, the robot
worshippers are making their case about they basically as a
(15:12):
form of ballet, is kind of like Swan Lake. They
recount the fall of the robots during the Robot War,
and we learn that central to their belief system is
this robot messiah named Daniel, who obviously is de Marcel,
and Day is like, wait a second, hold on ah
Demarsella like sometimes when we're when I've been alone with her,
(15:36):
she refers to herself as Daniel, so she's real and
he's saying this to Song, and Song is like blown
like what the robots skull does the Halo theme, which
means that judgment has been passing.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
Oh, and Day is like, hold on a second, I
know that sound for playing Halo one, two and three.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That is like burned in my brain? Where have I
heard that before? And meanwhile Sun Masters like okay, so
here's the verdict, folks.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
The verdict is which he describes.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
As a return to the subsoil and a return to
absolute obscurity.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Like are you gonna kill me? That mean to the subsoil?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
What a Day who has seen courtroom dramas, so he
knows how and and don't forget Days.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
This is not Day's first rodeo.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Recall his pilgrimage, his Luminous pilgrimage in season one, not
this Day, but previous ones. He kind of knows how this,
this kind of these religious trials work. So he says,
hold on, I demand my right in this courtroom to
(17:13):
speak to the authentic head of this robot right down,
and Sunmasters like, okay, yes you have all right, fine,
you have that right.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
How dare you? But yes you do?
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And then Day says, very smartly, again much like his
performance in the Luminate with the with the Luminous in
season one, he says, first of all, I'm sorry, let
me atone for my sins, and then tell you this
my personal assistant in the palace, my secretary every day
(17:49):
I'm working with. This is Daniel, And you know, everybody's
kind of like, what shock? Can we trust this man? Sunmaster,
of course, is like, I'm not. I'm not buying it,
no way that you're fucking the Messiah is your assistant,
your personal advisor. Day continues. He says, listen, I am
(18:09):
so sorry. I did not realize that we had enslaved
your robot, Messiah. I I again, I we used her
as a mother, as a lover, as a sister, as
a as.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
A person to vent our.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Our our our hatreds too, as a person to enact
our love with and we're and you know again, I'm
so sorry that we did this. But some masters like
going to continue. He's like, no, but we're we're continuing
the with the prosecution, like no, no, no, you're not
getting security speech.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I told you about the sub.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Soil, like we're doing it, but day now and to
day is continuing, and he could continue to be like God,
but that haunting melody from Halo, from the Halo video game,
I remember it, and then he begins to hum the
answer melody.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
And the head reacts to.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
This kind of handshake melody and begins now to scan
for other robots that might be in the in the region,
in the area, and some masters like I don't give
a shit. Okay you okay, the Head's doing something, but listen,
you're gonna get in the soil.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Now.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
You're getting pretty mediation now tabbing it, Gail returns to
question for you to no, no, please, do you read
Day's speech here?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
As genuine or do you think he is playing it
up to get himself out of a sticky situation.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I mean it's a lot like again, it's like his
kind of epiphany when he took the luminous pilgrimage. It
seemed as if he had a sincere epiphany. Now, that
epiphany from centuries ago and not this version of day
also kind of bolstered his preexisting notions about himself. So
(20:06):
I read it is sincere because it was also self serving.
This one also feels sincere. But of course he is
heavily incentivized to save his own life and his empire.
So I don't know, but it does read a sincere
to me.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I think he is coming.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
He wants to Demoiselle genuinely.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I think he's just to save his life more than anything,
and then let's go.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And I think he wants to.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I think he would say if he had the time
and he wasn't being shoved into the sub soil, I
think he would say, well, listen, uh, we can't even
have the freeing Demrzelle conversation unless you free me, right, So,
because I don't only want to, she's programmed to serve
me I'm the only one that buys this whole thing
(20:57):
with the with your religion, which, by the way, I am.
I am very touched by your religious fervor towards her,
and I believe the whole history of the thing.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
So you kind of need me.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
So I think he would say, like, you kind of
need me to have that conversation.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
What do you do you think it's sincerely?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I also read it as sincere. I think if we
hadn't had his drug trip from the previous episode, maybe
two episodes ago, then this would have read as like
a self serving lie to get out of a sticky
situation to me.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
But I think.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
The fact that he has recognized that Demozelle is maybe
the only person that has ever loved and believed in
him now does perhaps lead him to hear sincerely wanting
to set her free.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I agree with that take.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Gail returns to New Terminus, Prima is there to meet her,
and you know, they begin discussing what's happened. She's like,
have you got any word from Pritch? He's like no,
And now they're worried because obvious save Pritch falls into
the Mule's hands. Second foundation is vulnerable. We learned that
Gail's original plan was to bait the Mule into attacking
(22:08):
Empire before, but he messed it all up by attacking
Foundation first, and of course they had weakened Empire to
the point that it looked like a delicious morsel will
be gobbled up. But now this plan has collapsed and
everything is in turmoil because he did the thing that
he did, the thing that they didn't expect him to do.
Gail is like, Okay, here's what's gonna happen. I will
go face down the Mule to buy Foundation time to
(22:33):
run prem You will run Foundation while that's happening, and
just like get everybody to safety and who knows what's
gonna happen. Pream's like, no, we're not doing that, and
I refuse to do that, and Gail's like, you're gonna
do it. Be ready to go on the run if
you don't hear from me in forty eight hours. Del
Marzella is down in the wine cellar getting ready to
(22:53):
decant the next generation of Cleons, while Dusk is, of
course at her sides, saying, really.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Right now, come on, come on, is now really the
right time to be decanting you guys?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
We don't have time to train these guys up. They
don't know what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
The mule is.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Here, now, okay, I'm up to speed on.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
All of this.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
And by the way, then evacular like the what oh,
only the one weapon capable of like wiping out the
mule in one shot, my gravity bomb, and den Marsela
is actually pretty impressed that Dusk kept this secret from her,
like this is unheard of in the history of cleons, Like, yeah,
(23:38):
that they could keep one anything secret from her, but
to keep something this secret from her, like a massive
project that required a huge investment from the Late Empire's
dwindling resources, and somehow they managed to do it. And
Dusk is like this gravity bomb, Ah, it's it's my
backup plan.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I wanted it for Dawn.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
As a deterrent for when he became Day in Dusk,
but sadly he died in an heroic fashion and Demozelle's
a heroic fashion. No, Actually, Don was a complete trader
working with Gail Dordic, And Dusk is like, no, that
young man, that's such a promising.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I can't believe it. No, that can have happened.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
And Demorzelle, yeah, that's right, there's a second Foundation, and
they have the full premium plan to Harry Selton's math
like everybody else. First Foundation, they're just like on the
seven ninety nine. A month they get a subscription to Harry's,
they get ads. Gail got the full math, so they
know everything and and and that's who Don was working with.
(24:51):
So I'm sorry to tell you this. And Dusk is like, well,
one thing's for sure. It's you and me now, Demarselle
against the galaxy.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
So what do you say?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
We hit pause on Ascension day and we can you know,
of course we can decant these guys later, but.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
We got to deal with.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
This now, which means I stay alive for a little while.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
We go to space.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Dawn is alive.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
He survived amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
He's with Beta. They are prisoners of the Mule.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
His legs are.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Hamburger after being used somehow as fuel for his spacesuit.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
They're still in orbit around New Terminus and they're just
awaiting the outcome of the Mule's destruction of a New Terminus.
In the Imperial Gardens on Trantor, the Zephyr explains to
Demarzel why the Luminists have allied with the Insurgents, the
Cloud Dominion and the Galactic Council, and Demarzelle is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(25:54):
don't worry about it, like I'm not going to execute
you this very moment because I still need to do
this therapy stuff that I've been doing and kind of
grapple with all these it's turbulent emotions and feelings I'm having.
And this effort says, but why empires? Some would say
fallen already, You're free. That's good for you. You can
(26:17):
go on and be yourself now. And she says, by
the way, we're not just kind of I haven't the
Luminous haven't just like lightly allied with this, with the
Cloud Dominion and the glact Council.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
We've also been.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Secretly working to overthrow the Empire for some amount of time. Now,
Demarzelle gets a pissed and she says, well, now I
have to First of all, you've made me mad. I
now have to renounce Luminism and any kind of warm
feelings I had for the Luminis, which were many, as
we saw in season one. And you're really lucky I
(26:55):
don't kill you, and I am the Empire's a Reaper.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You got me fucked up. Now you got me.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
You had me one hundred percent wrong, you thought because
I showed you a little bit of warmth and empathy
in here and a different side of myself.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Uh huh that I'm not.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
That person that jumps out of like the spaceship with
the street sweeper and just wipes out the Empire's enemies.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
That's me. Now, go get your mind wipe.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
She wipes the Zephyr's mind, and Zephyr is like crying
when she comes out of the other side of the
mind wipe, and she's like, why am I crying, Demoiselle,
and Demozel's like.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Not a word.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Figure it out, bitch walks away.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Stone cold, Stone Cold, She's mad.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Now the Mule is in in Bird's office celebrating, and
he comes to this realization that his kind of search
for Gail is probably over, because she's gonna come see
him at some point. Gail, meanwhile, goes to the statue
that that body Harry carved of himself after he carved
this atues his loved ones and is like, God, I
(28:03):
wish I had you here, I wish I had a mentor,
I wish i'd had someone to like bounce ideas off of.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I wish Salvar my daughter was.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Here, but of course everyone's has died and I'm alone
with the math. And then Pream comes and says, hold on.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
And another heartfelt moment from Gail here that I really liked.
She said, there was never enough time to tell the
people I love that I love them. I love you, Harry.
I'm sorry I didn't say that earlier. I just felt
that was really powerful. Given this is a character who
has lived three hundred years and in some ways has
(28:40):
had more time than any other character we've met so far.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It's a good point because, you know, think about how
many people she has known and been close to have
who have died while she's been asleep. She hasn't been
even been around to see them off. It's an extremely
lonely feeling, and she's really feeling that isolation now. But
then Pream comes and says, listen, your mentalics, me and
(29:08):
the others we are like we're of one mind basically,
like the.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Way our powers work is.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
We understand each other's thoughts in this kind of like
instinctive way. It feels like one breath. And so when
you face the Mule, You're not gonna be alone. You're
gonna be with us. With all of our minds, they're
gonna be there with you, and we're gonna come with
you too, and in actual body, we're gonna be with you,
backing you up above Neutran tour, the Mule goes to
(29:37):
visit his print, his prisoners. He probes Down's brain for
any information on Gail. He doesn't have much. He wants
to know where she is. He then he's grabbing Cleon's
injured legs, making him scream it's terrible. Beta says, why
don't you just fucking leave? I know beatas has continues
to be incredible, and the Mules like, you know what,
(30:02):
I will because I'm sensing now that Gail has just
arrived on New Terminus, and indeed that has happened. Gail
and her metallics arrive on New Terminus for the showdown
with the Mule. We go to Micagen to end the episode.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
There's an uproar in the.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Courtroom because many who have heard Day's words are like, wait,
hold on a second, this surely the sub soil can
wait right like, let's it is? Is it not worth
finding out? If Daniel really is his secretary if the
Messiah does not exist, like we got to figure that out.
Sunmaster is like, no, we're not doing that.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
We're we're doing media.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
And then he leans in today it is like, yeah, Daniel,
to whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Let me tell you something, buddy.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
I don't want robot Messiah, if she exists, to come back.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Because I want this powerful myse Oh my god, and
you will go to.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
The subsoil where your body will be broken down by
the bacteria and fed to our mushrooms. And the trap
door opens and Dave falls falls, Walls falls down, ending
the episode. Yet another crazy wow and kind of and
(31:24):
another crazy episode with some I think kind of major reveals.
We learned that the Lunis have for some time been
working against Empire.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
We find out that.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Gail's big plan was to hand over Empire and a
silver platter, but the Mule wrong footed her and went
for Foundation instead.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Right, And we.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Learned that hologram Harry now has the full picture of
what's going on in the galaxy and he must he
must know. Maybe let's start here. He must know now
that second Foundation means another Harry running around. Gail can't
have done this on her own. Yeah, so if there's
(32:06):
another Harry, what does that mean for hologram Harry, because
he must have realized that, don't you think.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
I think he has started to fit the pieces of
this puzzle together, and I I'm definitely excited for a
potential Harry v. Harry standoff. If body Harry comes back again,
he's off in some other cosmic realm with being.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Of beings of pure energy doing God knows what. We
don't understand.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
It's still unclear if body Harry has just exited stage
left and is never coming back. But if he does, yeah,
there could be a world in which we have a
Harry v. Harry showdown. I also see an alternate world
in which body Harry legitimately has just left, but Holograham
Harry steps into that role once he's sort of filled
in on the situation. Maybe his desires to truly like
(33:02):
step into body Harry's position and lead second Foundation alongside
Gail and continue to nurture his plan as he sees fit.
So you know, maybe this is just a way to
bring Harry back without bringing Harry back, If that make sense.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
How much of what's happening do we think is you know,
a major theme of this season has been the kind
of cross currents that del Marsella is faced with. She's
programmed to serve Empire, and as she reiterated this episode,
if you think that she's not still down for the
(33:38):
cause of Empire, then you got her really wrong, because
and you got her wrong.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
To your detriment.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
At the same time, as she herself is wondering, is
there not some massive part of her that is working
to create a loophole by which she can actually be
free of this program dedication to Empire. And so I wonder, like,
with what's going on right now, how much of that
(34:04):
is Demarzelle's subconscious plan to have it happen.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I think, you know, we had talked a few episodes
ago with Rosie about the potential that all of this,
everything we've seen play out over three seasons, is part
of like a long term Demorzel plan to break free
from the cleon subjugation. I have maybe had a change
of heart. I actually think Demozel maybe knows less than
(34:35):
we've assumed. This episode in particular made me think that
she's kind of waffling a little bit and doesn't quite
know where to go. Next, the fact that she didn't
know about the death Star weapon, the fact that she
can so easily be convinced not to decant another set
of cleons. I think she's maybe just like making it
(34:56):
up a little bit as she goes.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
It's a good point.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I mean, she it must be incredibly almost disheartening for
her to realize that one that she's been fooled like this.
She didn't see the looms coming, and she didn't see
someone in her own household. I mean, she didn't see
multiple people in her own household doing things outside of
(35:21):
her vision. Days slipped away. We don't even know where
he is down was working with Gail Dornick, couldn't do
anything about it. And now Dusk has created a super
weapon with like some kind of slush fund cobbled together
from like household shopping funds, has created this gravity bomb.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Right's saving his allowance for like thirty years to.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Make this bomb, and she had no idea about it.
And now what will they do with it?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I guess that's the other question, is like, Okay, so
like you have this, you just lobb it at new
Terminus and hope the mule is there.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Right, I'm not sure where I'm interested to see where
these last few episodes go because does the showdown take
place on New Terminus that's where certain powers have certainly
converged at this point, or is the showdown going to
be at Trant or I'm not sure. I mean, we
do know that a black hole is going to be
involved at some point, because Gail, of course, is beyond
(36:22):
the what was it.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Beyond the subsequent Oh yeah, what was it?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
It was like beyond the like computation horizon of blah
blah blah blah blah. But we know that Gail's going
to end up in a black hole. So I don't
know there's definitely a Gaale versus Mule showdown happening.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I think there.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
I don't think Day is dead, to be clear, the
end of this episode made me certain that he's not dead.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
He's not absolutely not. Will.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I think we'll be saved maybe by Demarselle. I expect
she hasked to go down there right when she feels
the call of one of her.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Well, where I was going. I suspect like we've been
watching Demozel be like more and more unmoored throughout this
whole season, and I think hearing the call of another
robot might be the thing that finally shakes her world enough.
You know, I suspect this season's going to end on
(37:20):
like a Demozel communicating with another robot for the first
time in what five thousand years? Yeah, so that would
be a huge reveal.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
I think Sunmaster I have to wonder, like, it seems
like not a really great end game for him. So
his plan is like feed day to the soil, hope
that this transmission that his staff has put out doesn't
(37:50):
connect with Danielle and that whole story was completely bullshit.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, and also.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Is seemingly completely not plugged in with things going on
elsewhere in the galaxy, like the Mule and these other things.
Because it feels to me like sun Master, if I
had to bet on stuff that will definitely happen this season, Sunmaster.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Dies a hundred.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Most definitely Sunmaster dies, I couldn't agree more. I would
also happily put money down on that. Yeah. I mean,
I think I don't think he's that deep of a
character in the sense that, like he's not a major
player in this story. I do just think he's like
a small time Gould leader obsessed with his little small
time power in this corner of my Kagen that he
(38:43):
doesn't want to let go of. But clearly he's now
been wrapped up in literally empire spanning events and there's
no putting the signal back in the bottle. Like, it's
out there. He can flip the reset switch on that
skull all he wants, but it's out there, and I
do think Deverzel's going to hear it.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
I mean, we're heading up to some really incredible confrontations.
Gail the Mule, Gail Hologram Harry. Yes, I mean if
I'm almost more interested in that one. What happens when
Hologram Harry comes face to face with the leader of
the Foundation, they his protege that he did not know
(39:20):
was still alive, who had been working with a fully
bodied version of himself for a number of years.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
What will that meeting be like?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, that I agree so wholeheartedly. I'm almost more interested
in the interpersonal conflicts that are going to happen versus
the sort of like big pewpw guns fighting showdown. Yeah
the Mule, And I don't know, like that is going
to be so incredible. I think the Demozel meeting now
(39:52):
the robot thing is going to be incredible. I think
that's a great strength of this show is like the
smaller human interactions feel somehow more powerful than the galact
expanding wars that are happening in the Those are almost
are almost the backdrop upon which all of the human
interpersonal relationships are taking place, which I find most interesting.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
It's same here.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And finally, I gotta I I'm feeling more and more
like the Mule is someone's pawn because he appeared out
of nowhere, yeah, with these powers that we've seen elsewhere
in the universe, and he kind of came with only
one mission in mind, which is to find this woman,
(40:36):
Gail Dornick, who has been in his mind pursuing him
through his dreams, and the things he's doing.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Are seemingly aims.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
That others would have like a heavy incentive to see happen,
And so I wonder, like, who who really put the
Mule in play? If anyone do you have any thoughts
on that.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I also, as I'm glad you brought this up, I
literally had this thought where I was like, we're eight
episodes in and if there was one very tiny critique
I'd have for this show this season eight episodes in,
is that I feel like I didn't get enough Mule,
Like we got a flashback. But I'm actually in agreement
with Halo Graham Harry that I think that flashback is
(41:22):
bullshit and just a story that the Mule has made
up for himself, or it's been a story that's been
implanted in his brain by someone, some other mentalit who knows.
I don't think that's true, you know, I think the
flashback is a red herring. So given that, like we've
basically been given no backstory or character development for the
Mule beyond, like you stated, a very simple motivation to
(41:44):
find Gail Dornick, which I agree with you, feels more
and more like not his motivation feels like a different
powers motivation. And so I'm curious if intentionally we don't
know much about the Mule because in these last two episodes.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Of the season, and.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
There are big reveals to come that the meal is
just upon I suspect that might be the case, or
at least that's that's where my head's at currently.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Well, incredible episode.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
I'm sad that we'reried not going to get that much
more of this season, and also sun Masters, My guy,
I was just eating up the scenery to a truly
insane degree.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
This Yahiso it.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Is, I mean, making a century out of every syllable
everywhere is unbelievable performance from sun Master eighteen. Any any
final predictions to leave us with?
Speaker 3 (42:41):
You know, I'm not going to get into the Harry
Selden prediction game because I genuinely I'm very excited to
see where nine and ten go, and I'm here for
the ride. We're so far from book territory that it's
like not even worth the efforts for me to try
and like mind my book knowledge to guess what happens next.
So I have deeply enjoyed this season and I can't
(43:04):
wait to see where we go.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Well that's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
Our producers are Common Laurent, Dean Jonathan, and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman
Speaker 1 (43:36):
And Heidi our discord moderator,
Warning today's episode canad spoilers for Foundation season three episode.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Eight, Skin in the Game. You warn't Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
My name is Jason Concepcion and my name's a boo
and welcome back to x Ray Vision of the podcast
where we dive me pet your favorite shows, movies, comics,
and pop up culture coming to you from our podcast
where we're bringing you episodes every Tuesday Thursday. Plus we're
discussing the summer's biggest movies every Friday, and news on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Today, Jason, we are continuing our journey across the Empire.
We're gonna be talking about Foundation season three, episode eight.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Let's dive immediately into it. Foundation season three episode eight,
Skin in the Game. We open outside of the vault
where the Mule has just got done telling Harry his
backstory as we saw in the flashback in episode seven.
(01:13):
Harry then puts all a little clues together from that
flashback and goes, oh, let's see big Spinach, monocrop planet,
heavy Imperial quotas I'm guessing Rassam is that right? And
he Harry then shares his own you know background. He's like, listen,
I know I know a lot about the heavy hand
(01:36):
of empire when you feel it weighing on your shoulder,
and how taro all that can be. So you know,
let's talk, let's make a deal. Harry and the Mule,
you know, come to a conversation where they're you know,
you know, kind of like moving around the idea of
(01:56):
can we deal with each other? They're not sure, but
they're kind of poking around the Mule very clearly. He
knows what he wants, and he's wanted it for a while.
He wants Gail. He wants this woman who's hounding him
in the second in Harry's Hidden Second Foundation, like give
up her location because I'm tired of her hunting me
across time. And Harry is like, Gail Dornic, Yeah, Gail
(02:19):
Dornic helped me out with some stuff like three hundred
and forty years ago.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
You know, help me bring up like point, very very random.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
She helped me with some stuff for that big Imperial
meeting back in season one, which again.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Is like over three centuries ago.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, but she died, you know, back in the day,
way way way long ago. And the Mule is like, listen,
very funny, ha ha ha, gil me Gail or I'm
going to destroy this planet. I'm gonna blow up the
vault and then your little project.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Is is done.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And then he realizes, wait a second, you're not fooling around.
You actually don't know that Gail is a lot. And
then he's like, oh wow, now I'm kind of disappointed,
like the great Harry Seldon, and you're just kind of
like this ghost in this box that doesn't know what's happening.
Like right now, Harry comes back in him and I'm
(03:16):
I got a lot of respect for hologram Harry after this,
because I have to say, I kind of arrived at
where the mule arrived seconds ago, much earlier.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The hologram Harry.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Is the out of it Harry who is adhering to
this plan that has long since gone off the rails.
He pops out of his little vault like every so
often to being like, Hi, I'm Harry, I'm still around
and a great plan blah blah blah blah blah, and
then he goes away and he is completely disconnected.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
He doesn't know anything.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
But then Harry says, oh, yeah, I feel you searching
around and whatever. This hologram mind of mine is trying
to find little secrets you can't do it because I'm
not like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
And by the way, I watch this null field.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Boom traps the mule in the null field and is
like a bat like draining him, gonna squeeze him his
very essence to to nothing, until like all that's left
is this dry husk of a mule. But then he
spares his life. Shockingly, God, I could and I'm like,
wait what? And then he lords over the mules, you know,
(04:27):
standing over the moon, and It's like, yeah, I could have.
I could have done you in, but you're interesting to
me right now.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
You have some little secrets in.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Your little mind that I would like to unlock, and
so I want to unlock those first before I kill
you in a null field, I guess. And then Harry
just strides off, Yeah, what do you think that secret is?
Because I was trying to figure that out.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
What is this? What is the secret that the mule has?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
You know, I hadn't given that much thought.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I don't think that Harry believes that this is the
mule's true backstory. Are you really from Rossum?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Did you actually.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Grow up on Big Spinach? Like?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Right?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I think Harry wants to learn the true origins of
the Mule, because I do think Hologram Harry, between what
the foundationers told him and now this confrontation with the Mule,
is starting to put together how much he doesn't know
about what's going on in the galaxy. And I think
learning about the Mule's origins might be something that he
(05:30):
thinks he can plug back into his equation in order
to fix his plan to get it back on track.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I think that's right.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I think that he's he's he caught a glimpse of
like another wheel within the game that he was not
aware of, and.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Weirdly is excited by it.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I mean, you get a feeling that Hologram Harry was
kind of on autopilot for many, many years, and it's this,
you know, with decided, I've got it all planned out
and it's running on rails at this point and I
barely need to be here. But I think this has
like rekindled his passion for fucking around in galactic politics.
And I think he's fired up and engaged Hologram Harry now,
(06:14):
and I'm very excited to see what that means, considering
he has no body, he has no constituency, really anymore.
It's everything's you know, the foundation one has fallen apart,
So what can he really do?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I'm excited to see.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, I appreciate that hologram Harry. I think I mentioned
this early on in our coverage of this season, but
Halo Graham Harry is like Harry one point zero. He's
like still the arrogant has asshole Harry. We met like
the episode one of the show without the character development
and growth alongside Gail. That real life body Harry got
(06:47):
in season two, season three, so good, Like the edges
definitely softened for real life Harry, I think. And it's
really fun to go back to this og like kind
of dickhead Harry.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Dig Harry because dick Harry one point zero would not
have built other people's statues before his own.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
He would have built his first.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Absolutely and he got the statue.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Right, but he would have built it first.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Body Harry is like, I I appreciate what everybody else
has done.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Let me build their statues then I'll I'll really work
on it. Growth, significant growth.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
We go to Micagen the Layer of the Sun Master,
God and Man the Sun Master. This guy loves his job.
There's nobody I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
If anyone he's in there.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
He's got his Loki staff stopped by the you know,
topped by the skull of a genuine robot. Folks, this
is a genuine robot skull. And he tells Day, you're
about to go on trial for crimes against our religion
and robots in general. Elsewhere on the surface, Demarsela it
returns to Trantor informs Dusk of Dawn's demise elsewhere in
(08:15):
the galaxy, and Dusk goes off to UH to a
meeting with Ambassador Quent, and he vents his heartbreak upon her,
basically saying, oh, that kid, that kid Dawn, he had everything,
he had the future, the future was brite for him.
And yeah, I can't believe that kid.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
He was right here under my wing and now he's gone.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
He's dead, and it doesn't mean anything that galaxy is
falling apart, and Ambassador quents without telling him. An Ambassador
Quent has been nothing but an incredible try. It is
true that like her, she could be handed over to
(09:05):
the Mule at any time, and thus she is she
must kind of be this type of prison, but she
really is, Like listen, don forget the clone stuff. I
have to believe that every clone is, yes, genetically a
copy of a person, but also they're a person in
(09:28):
their own right, and therefore down what is the galaxy
lost in the miracle that was down his own person
more than a clone.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
He's gone.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I offer you my sincere condolences, Dusk, and they are
about to like really kind of commiserate over this, but
then an ambassador comes up and Dusk is getting pulled
into some very very important imperial meetings with a triumvirate
of ambassadors who are not on Zoom.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
They're here get out of the worst kind of meeting,
the kind in the office.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Before we move on from this scene, I do want
to say the ambassador says something here that really resonated
with me. I think is really touches on a big
theme in this story. She says that she was raised
to believe that one individual person could not change the galaxy,
but that she believes we do change each other. You
(10:27):
can't affect the entire galaxy, but you can affect the
people around you. I just thought that was really beautiful
and heartfelt and really resonant with the core ideas of
this whole story.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I was touched by that as well.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And I also and there's another layer two of it,
which is I found a little sinister, because of course
she is the ambassador Foundation. She is an adherent to
the philosophies of psychohistory and the teachings of original now
hologram Harry. And it isn't it so like Harry to,
while as a singular man attempting to affect history, basically
(11:05):
close that door behind you and tell everybody, by the way,
you can't do this, can do this, okay, be good
to each other.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I'll be in the vault. We go back to Mica.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Jen Song is told by uh sun Master that listen,
sorry about it, but the whole reason that he's down
here is because of you. So you kind of have to.
It's a formality, but you gotta sit next to him
up there on the dais uh. And then, by the way,
I'm gonna make your partner the prosecutor, so just roll
(11:46):
with it. This is just a procedure. So then sun Master,
you know, launches into his incredibly dramatic reading of the charges,
which are basically, you know, crime against their religion, the enslavement.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Of robots, the.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Destruction of all robots, which is the doings of Cleon one.
But still we're going to since you are the clone,
we're going to charge.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
You with these things.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
And then the audience begins to chant and it activates
the robots.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Skull a top sun Master's staff.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
In the throne room, Dusk is meeting with the Galactic Council,
the Cloud Dominion and the Lumens, the Zephyr of the
Lumens to basically try and put out this fire that
is the Mule, and they basically flex immediately. They say, listen,
where are your other brother emperors.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
They're not here.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And we represent a substantial power set within the empire
five trillion people, and we want a voice in this
confrontation with the Mule because you have no choice but
to include us, because you have nothing now your power
is int tatters. And so here's what we are proposing, Dusk,
(13:12):
who by the way, is going to be out of
here in forty nine hours, like so that you know
more evidence that your power is built on sands that
are shifting and have indeed shifted way beyond your control.
We want to surrender Trantor to the Mule to basically
placate him while we get our shit together to confront him.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
What do you say about that?
Speaker 4 (13:35):
And Dusk is like, how dare you the seat of empire,
Empire high empire, well without without the kleos, what sort
of empire?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Cand we have?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
We have a heart and the soul of empire. And
Ambassador Cannon is like, let's look at the facts again, Donna,
day are missing. You're gonna get put up the pope
chimney as smoke. In forty nine hours, you're gone. Okay,
they're decanning another one. And ultimately it was the Luminists,
(14:09):
who have trillions and trillions and trillions of adherents across
the galaxy, who swung us in this direction. It was
kind of them saying, yes, you should do this, so
we have the authority and the legitimacy to make this decision.
And Dusky is absolutely furious. De Marselle steps in, No,
(14:30):
we're not doing this. This discussion goes no further, and
Ken is basically like, it's not discussion, like we're doing it, bye, goodbye.
So this is a huge I mean empire. These three
would argue empire is gone. Essentially at this point, it
has fallen. It is a fact that it has fallen,
(14:50):
and I think they're right back in Micagen, the robot
worshippers are making their case about they basically as a
(15:12):
form of ballet, is kind of like Swan Lake. They
recount the fall of the robots during the Robot War,
and we learn that central to their belief system is
this robot messiah named Daniel, who obviously is de Marcel,
and Day is like, wait a second, hold on ah
Demarsella like sometimes when we're when I've been alone with her,
(15:36):
she refers to herself as Daniel, so she's real and
he's saying this to Song, and Song is like blown
like what the robots skull does the Halo theme, which
means that judgment has been passing.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
Oh, and Day is like, hold on a second, I
know that sound for playing Halo one, two and three.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That is like burned in my brain? Where have I
heard that before? And meanwhile Sun Masters like okay, so
here's the verdict, folks.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
The verdict is which he describes.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
As a return to the subsoil and a return to
absolute obscurity.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Like are you gonna kill me? That mean to the subsoil?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
What a Day who has seen courtroom dramas, so he
knows how and and don't forget Days.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
This is not Day's first rodeo.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Recall his pilgrimage, his Luminous pilgrimage in season one, not
this Day, but previous ones. He kind of knows how this,
this kind of these religious trials work. So he says,
hold on, I demand my right in this courtroom to
(17:13):
speak to the authentic head of this robot right down,
and Sunmasters like, okay, yes you have all right, fine,
you have that right.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
How dare you? But yes you do?
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And then Day says, very smartly, again much like his
performance in the Luminate with the with the Luminous in
season one, he says, first of all, I'm sorry, let
me atone for my sins, and then tell you this
my personal assistant in the palace, my secretary every day
(17:49):
I'm working with. This is Daniel, And you know, everybody's
kind of like, what shock? Can we trust this man? Sunmaster,
of course, is like, I'm not. I'm not buying it,
no way that you're fucking the Messiah is your assistant,
your personal advisor. Day continues. He says, listen, I am
(18:09):
so sorry. I did not realize that we had enslaved
your robot, Messiah. I I again, I we used her
as a mother, as a lover, as a sister, as
a as.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
A person to vent our.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Our our our hatreds too, as a person to enact
our love with and we're and you know again, I'm
so sorry that we did this. But some masters like
going to continue. He's like, no, but we're we're continuing
the with the prosecution, like no, no, no, you're not
getting security speech.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I told you about the sub.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Soil, like we're doing it, but day now and to
day is continuing, and he could continue to be like God,
but that haunting melody from Halo, from the Halo video game,
I remember it, and then he begins to hum the
answer melody.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
And the head reacts to.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
This kind of handshake melody and begins now to scan
for other robots that might be in the in the region,
in the area, and some masters like I don't give
a shit. Okay you okay, the Head's doing something, but listen,
you're gonna get in the soil.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Now.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
You're getting pretty mediation now tabbing it, Gail returns to
question for you to no, no, please, do you read
Day's speech here?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
As genuine or do you think he is playing it
up to get himself out of a sticky situation.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I mean it's a lot like again, it's like his
kind of epiphany when he took the luminous pilgrimage. It
seemed as if he had a sincere epiphany. Now, that
epiphany from centuries ago and not this version of day
also kind of bolstered his preexisting notions about himself. So
(20:06):
I read it is sincere because it was also self serving.
This one also feels sincere. But of course he is
heavily incentivized to save his own life and his empire.
So I don't know, but it does read a sincere
to me.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I think he is coming.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
He wants to Demoiselle genuinely.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I think he's just to save his life more than anything,
and then let's go.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And I think he wants to.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I think he would say if he had the time
and he wasn't being shoved into the sub soil, I
think he would say, well, listen, uh, we can't even
have the freeing Demrzelle conversation unless you free me, right, So,
because I don't only want to, she's programmed to serve
me I'm the only one that buys this whole thing
(20:57):
with the with your religion, which, by the way, I am.
I am very touched by your religious fervor towards her,
and I believe the whole history of the thing.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
So you kind of need me.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
So I think he would say, like, you kind of
need me to have that conversation.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
What do you do you think it's sincerely?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I also read it as sincere. I think if we
hadn't had his drug trip from the previous episode, maybe
two episodes ago, then this would have read as like
a self serving lie to get out of a sticky
situation to me.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
But I think.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
The fact that he has recognized that Demozelle is maybe
the only person that has ever loved and believed in
him now does perhaps lead him to hear sincerely wanting
to set her free.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I agree with that take.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Gail returns to New Terminus, Prima is there to meet her,
and you know, they begin discussing what's happened. She's like,
have you got any word from Pritch? He's like no,
And now they're worried because obvious save Pritch falls into
the Mule's hands. Second foundation is vulnerable. We learned that
Gail's original plan was to bait the Mule into attacking
(22:08):
Empire before, but he messed it all up by attacking
Foundation first, and of course they had weakened Empire to
the point that it looked like a delicious morsel will
be gobbled up. But now this plan has collapsed and
everything is in turmoil because he did the thing that
he did, the thing that they didn't expect him to do.
Gail is like, Okay, here's what's gonna happen. I will
go face down the Mule to buy Foundation time to
(22:33):
run prem You will run Foundation while that's happening, and
just like get everybody to safety and who knows what's
gonna happen. Pream's like, no, we're not doing that, and
I refuse to do that, and Gail's like, you're gonna
do it. Be ready to go on the run if
you don't hear from me in forty eight hours. Del
Marzella is down in the wine cellar getting ready to
(22:53):
decant the next generation of Cleons, while Dusk is, of
course at her sides, saying, really.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Right now, come on, come on, is now really the
right time to be decanting you guys?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
We don't have time to train these guys up. They
don't know what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
The mule is.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Here, now, okay, I'm up to speed on.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
All of this.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
And by the way, then evacular like the what oh,
only the one weapon capable of like wiping out the
mule in one shot, my gravity bomb, and den Marsela
is actually pretty impressed that Dusk kept this secret from her,
like this is unheard of in the history of cleons, Like, yeah,
(23:38):
that they could keep one anything secret from her, but
to keep something this secret from her, like a massive
project that required a huge investment from the Late Empire's
dwindling resources, and somehow they managed to do it. And
Dusk is like this gravity bomb, Ah, it's it's my
backup plan.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I wanted it for Dawn.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
As a deterrent for when he became Day in Dusk,
but sadly he died in an heroic fashion and Demozelle's
a heroic fashion. No, Actually, Don was a complete trader
working with Gail Dordic, And Dusk is like, no, that
young man, that's such a promising.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I can't believe it. No, that can have happened.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
And Demorzelle, yeah, that's right, there's a second Foundation, and
they have the full premium plan to Harry Selton's math
like everybody else. First Foundation, they're just like on the
seven ninety nine. A month they get a subscription to Harry's,
they get ads. Gail got the full math, so they
know everything and and and that's who Don was working with.
(24:51):
So I'm sorry to tell you this. And Dusk is like, well,
one thing's for sure. It's you and me now, Demarselle
against the galaxy.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
So what do you say?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
We hit pause on Ascension day and we can you know,
of course we can decant these guys later, but.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
We got to deal with.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
This now, which means I stay alive for a little while.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
We go to space.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Dawn is alive.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
He survived amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
He's with Beta. They are prisoners of the Mule.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
His legs are.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Hamburger after being used somehow as fuel for his spacesuit.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
They're still in orbit around New Terminus and they're just
awaiting the outcome of the Mule's destruction of a New Terminus.
In the Imperial Gardens on Trantor, the Zephyr explains to
Demarzel why the Luminists have allied with the Insurgents, the
Cloud Dominion and the Galactic Council, and Demarzelle is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(25:54):
don't worry about it, like I'm not going to execute
you this very moment because I still need to do
this therapy stuff that I've been doing and kind of
grapple with all these it's turbulent emotions and feelings I'm having.
And this effort says, but why empires? Some would say
fallen already, You're free. That's good for you. You can
(26:17):
go on and be yourself now. And she says, by
the way, we're not just kind of I haven't the
Luminous haven't just like lightly allied with this, with the
Cloud Dominion and the glact Council.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
We've also been.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Secretly working to overthrow the Empire for some amount of time. Now,
Demarzelle gets a pissed and she says, well, now I
have to First of all, you've made me mad. I
now have to renounce Luminism and any kind of warm
feelings I had for the Luminis, which were many, as
we saw in season one. And you're really lucky I
(26:55):
don't kill you, and I am the Empire's a Reaper.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You got me fucked up. Now you got me.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
You had me one hundred percent wrong, you thought because
I showed you a little bit of warmth and empathy
in here and a different side of myself.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Uh huh that I'm not.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
That person that jumps out of like the spaceship with
the street sweeper and just wipes out the Empire's enemies.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
That's me. Now, go get your mind wipe.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
She wipes the Zephyr's mind, and Zephyr is like crying
when she comes out of the other side of the
mind wipe, and she's like, why am I crying, Demoiselle,
and Demozel's like.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Not a word.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Figure it out, bitch walks away.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Stone cold, Stone Cold, She's mad.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Now the Mule is in in Bird's office celebrating, and
he comes to this realization that his kind of search
for Gail is probably over, because she's gonna come see
him at some point. Gail, meanwhile, goes to the statue
that that body Harry carved of himself after he carved
this atues his loved ones and is like, God, I
(28:03):
wish I had you here, I wish I had a mentor,
I wish i'd had someone to like bounce ideas off of.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I wish Salvar my daughter was.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Here, but of course everyone's has died and I'm alone
with the math. And then Pream comes and says, hold on.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
And another heartfelt moment from Gail here that I really liked.
She said, there was never enough time to tell the
people I love that I love them. I love you, Harry.
I'm sorry I didn't say that earlier. I just felt
that was really powerful. Given this is a character who
has lived three hundred years and in some ways has
(28:40):
had more time than any other character we've met so far.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It's a good point because, you know, think about how
many people she has known and been close to have
who have died while she's been asleep. She hasn't been
even been around to see them off. It's an extremely
lonely feeling, and she's really feeling that isolation now. But
then Pream comes and says, listen, your mentalics, me and
(29:08):
the others we are like we're of one mind basically,
like the.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Way our powers work is.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
We understand each other's thoughts in this kind of like
instinctive way. It feels like one breath. And so when
you face the Mule, You're not gonna be alone. You're
gonna be with us. With all of our minds, they're
gonna be there with you, and we're gonna come with
you too, and in actual body, we're gonna be with you,
backing you up above Neutran tour, the Mule goes to
(29:37):
visit his print, his prisoners. He probes Down's brain for
any information on Gail. He doesn't have much. He wants
to know where she is. He then he's grabbing Cleon's
injured legs, making him scream it's terrible. Beta says, why
don't you just fucking leave? I know beatas has continues
to be incredible, and the Mules like, you know what,
(30:02):
I will because I'm sensing now that Gail has just
arrived on New Terminus, and indeed that has happened. Gail
and her metallics arrive on New Terminus for the showdown
with the Mule. We go to Micagen to end the episode.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
There's an uproar in the.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Courtroom because many who have heard Day's words are like, wait,
hold on a second, this surely the sub soil can
wait right like, let's it is? Is it not worth
finding out? If Daniel really is his secretary if the
Messiah does not exist, like we got to figure that out.
Sunmaster is like, no, we're not doing that.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
We're we're doing media.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
And then he leans in today it is like, yeah, Daniel,
to whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Let me tell you something, buddy.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
I don't want robot Messiah, if she exists, to come back.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Because I want this powerful myse Oh my god, and
you will go to.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
The subsoil where your body will be broken down by
the bacteria and fed to our mushrooms. And the trap
door opens and Dave falls falls, Walls falls down, ending
the episode. Yet another crazy wow and kind of and
(31:24):
another crazy episode with some I think kind of major reveals.
We learned that the Lunis have for some time been
working against Empire.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
We find out that.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Gail's big plan was to hand over Empire and a
silver platter, but the Mule wrong footed her and went
for Foundation instead.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Right, And we.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Learned that hologram Harry now has the full picture of
what's going on in the galaxy and he must he
must know. Maybe let's start here. He must know now
that second Foundation means another Harry running around. Gail can't
have done this on her own. Yeah, so if there's
(32:06):
another Harry, what does that mean for hologram Harry, because
he must have realized that, don't you think.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
I think he has started to fit the pieces of
this puzzle together, and I I'm definitely excited for a
potential Harry v. Harry standoff. If body Harry comes back again,
he's off in some other cosmic realm with being.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Of beings of pure energy doing God knows what. We
don't understand.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
It's still unclear if body Harry has just exited stage
left and is never coming back. But if he does, yeah,
there could be a world in which we have a
Harry v. Harry showdown. I also see an alternate world
in which body Harry legitimately has just left, but Holograham
Harry steps into that role once he's sort of filled
in on the situation. Maybe his desires to truly like
(33:02):
step into body Harry's position and lead second Foundation alongside
Gail and continue to nurture his plan as he sees fit.
So you know, maybe this is just a way to
bring Harry back without bringing Harry back, If that make sense.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
How much of what's happening do we think is you know,
a major theme of this season has been the kind
of cross currents that del Marsella is faced with. She's
programmed to serve Empire, and as she reiterated this episode,
if you think that she's not still down for the
(33:38):
cause of Empire, then you got her really wrong, because
and you got her wrong.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
To your detriment.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
At the same time, as she herself is wondering, is
there not some massive part of her that is working
to create a loophole by which she can actually be
free of this program dedication to Empire. And so I wonder, like,
with what's going on right now, how much of that
(34:04):
is Demarzelle's subconscious plan to have it happen.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I think, you know, we had talked a few episodes
ago with Rosie about the potential that all of this,
everything we've seen play out over three seasons, is part
of like a long term Demorzel plan to break free
from the cleon subjugation. I have maybe had a change
of heart. I actually think Demozel maybe knows less than
(34:35):
we've assumed. This episode in particular made me think that
she's kind of waffling a little bit and doesn't quite
know where to go. Next, the fact that she didn't
know about the death Star weapon, the fact that she
can so easily be convinced not to decant another set
of cleons. I think she's maybe just like making it
(34:56):
up a little bit as she goes.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
It's a good point.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I mean, she it must be incredibly almost disheartening for
her to realize that one that she's been fooled like this.
She didn't see the looms coming, and she didn't see
someone in her own household. I mean, she didn't see
multiple people in her own household doing things outside of
(35:21):
her vision. Days slipped away. We don't even know where
he is down was working with Gail Dornick, couldn't do
anything about it. And now Dusk has created a super
weapon with like some kind of slush fund cobbled together
from like household shopping funds, has created this gravity bomb.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Right's saving his allowance for like thirty years to.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Make this bomb, and she had no idea about it.
And now what will they do with it?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I guess that's the other question, is like, Okay, so
like you have this, you just lobb it at new
Terminus and hope the mule is there.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Right, I'm not sure where I'm interested to see where
these last few episodes go because does the showdown take
place on New Terminus that's where certain powers have certainly
converged at this point, or is the showdown going to
be at Trant or I'm not sure. I mean, we
do know that a black hole is going to be
involved at some point, because Gail, of course, is beyond
(36:22):
the what was it.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Beyond the subsequent Oh yeah, what was it?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
It was like beyond the like computation horizon of blah
blah blah blah blah. But we know that Gail's going
to end up in a black hole. So I don't
know there's definitely a Gaale versus Mule showdown happening.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I think there.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
I don't think Day is dead, to be clear, the
end of this episode made me certain that he's not dead.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
He's not absolutely not. Will.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I think we'll be saved maybe by Demarselle. I expect
she hasked to go down there right when she feels
the call of one of her.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Well, where I was going. I suspect like we've been
watching Demozel be like more and more unmoored throughout this
whole season, and I think hearing the call of another
robot might be the thing that finally shakes her world enough.
You know, I suspect this season's going to end on
(37:20):
like a Demozel communicating with another robot for the first
time in what five thousand years? Yeah, so that would
be a huge reveal.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
I think Sunmaster I have to wonder, like, it seems
like not a really great end game for him. So
his plan is like feed day to the soil, hope
that this transmission that his staff has put out doesn't
(37:50):
connect with Danielle and that whole story was completely bullshit.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, and also.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Is seemingly completely not plugged in with things going on
elsewhere in the galaxy, like the Mule and these other things.
Because it feels to me like sun Master, if I
had to bet on stuff that will definitely happen this season, Sunmaster.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Dies a hundred.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Most definitely Sunmaster dies, I couldn't agree more. I would
also happily put money down on that. Yeah. I mean,
I think I don't think he's that deep of a
character in the sense that, like he's not a major
player in this story. I do just think he's like
a small time Gould leader obsessed with his little small
time power in this corner of my Kagen that he
(38:43):
doesn't want to let go of. But clearly he's now
been wrapped up in literally empire spanning events and there's
no putting the signal back in the bottle. Like, it's
out there. He can flip the reset switch on that
skull all he wants, but it's out there, and I
do think Deverzel's going to hear it.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
I mean, we're heading up to some really incredible confrontations.
Gail the Mule, Gail Hologram Harry. Yes, I mean if
I'm almost more interested in that one. What happens when
Hologram Harry comes face to face with the leader of
the Foundation, they his protege that he did not know
(39:20):
was still alive, who had been working with a fully
bodied version of himself for a number of years.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
What will that meeting be like?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, that I agree so wholeheartedly. I'm almost more interested
in the interpersonal conflicts that are going to happen versus
the sort of like big pewpw guns fighting showdown. Yeah
the Mule, And I don't know, like that is going
to be so incredible. I think the Demozel meeting now
(39:52):
the robot thing is going to be incredible. I think
that's a great strength of this show is like the
smaller human interactions feel somehow more powerful than the galact
expanding wars that are happening in the Those are almost
are almost the backdrop upon which all of the human
interpersonal relationships are taking place, which I find most interesting.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
It's same here.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And finally, I gotta I I'm feeling more and more
like the Mule is someone's pawn because he appeared out
of nowhere, yeah, with these powers that we've seen elsewhere
in the universe, and he kind of came with only
one mission in mind, which is to find this woman,
(40:36):
Gail Dornick, who has been in his mind pursuing him
through his dreams, and the things he's doing.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Are seemingly aims.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
That others would have like a heavy incentive to see happen,
And so I wonder, like, who who really put the
Mule in play? If anyone do you have any thoughts
on that.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I also, as I'm glad you brought this up, I
literally had this thought where I was like, we're eight
episodes in and if there was one very tiny critique
I'd have for this show this season eight episodes in,
is that I feel like I didn't get enough Mule,
Like we got a flashback. But I'm actually in agreement
with Halo Graham Harry that I think that flashback is
(41:22):
bullshit and just a story that the Mule has made
up for himself, or it's been a story that's been
implanted in his brain by someone, some other mentalit who knows.
I don't think that's true, you know, I think the
flashback is a red herring. So given that, like we've
basically been given no backstory or character development for the
Mule beyond, like you stated, a very simple motivation to
(41:44):
find Gail Dornick, which I agree with you, feels more
and more like not his motivation feels like a different
powers motivation. And so I'm curious if intentionally we don't
know much about the Mule because in these last two episodes.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Of the season, and.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
There are big reveals to come that the meal is
just upon I suspect that might be the case, or
at least that's that's where my head's at currently.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Well, incredible episode.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
I'm sad that we'reried not going to get that much
more of this season, and also sun Masters, My guy,
I was just eating up the scenery to a truly
insane degree.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
This Yahiso it.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Is, I mean, making a century out of every syllable
everywhere is unbelievable performance from sun Master eighteen. Any any
final predictions to leave us with?
Speaker 3 (42:41):
You know, I'm not going to get into the Harry
Selden prediction game because I genuinely I'm very excited to
see where nine and ten go, and I'm here for
the ride. We're so far from book territory that it's
like not even worth the efforts for me to try
and like mind my book knowledge to guess what happens next.
So I have deeply enjoyed this season and I can't
(43:04):
wait to see where we go.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Well that's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
Our producers are Common Laurent, Dean Jonathan, and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman
Speaker 1 (43:36):
And Heidi our discord moderator,
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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