Gladiator II: ARE WE NOT ENTERTAINED?!

GET OUT OF MY HOUSE! The XRV team has seen Gladiator II, and they were in fact entertained. Join us today as Jason and Rosie recap the film. They invite producer Joelle Monique to review the movie together and discuss how it could have been even better. Then to wrap it all up, the panel of hosts asks when was the last truly great Ridley Scott film released? They take us through a ranking of all of his films of the 21st century.

Follow Jason: twitter.com/netw3rk

Follow Rosie: IG & Letterboxd 

Follow X-Ray Vision on Instagram

Join the X-Ray Vision Discord

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning today's episode, Today's spoiler's for Gladiator too, So if
you haven't seen it, you want to see it. You've
been waiting for a decade plus twenty to almost twenty years?
Has it been twenty actually twenty twenty four years since
since the release of the original Gladiator to get the sequel,

(00:20):
then go watch it and then come back to us.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
We'll be here.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Hello.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
My name is Jasononcepsion and I'm Ersday Night. Welcome back
to x Ray Vision of the podcast where we dive
deep been to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.
Coming from IRA Podcast, where we're bringing you three episodes
a week, every Tuesday, every Thursday, with an extra eppisode

(01:00):
every Wednesday.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
In today's episode, we're gonna be looking at the box
office and asking the question, is Glicked the new Barbenheimer?
I'm more interested in Baby Ratu, So listen to learn
about that terrifying double bill. In the airlock, we will
be talking a wide ranging discussion about Gladiator to Revenge

(01:22):
is here? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it fun?
What was Ridley Scott's last good movie? We will be
tapping into producer. We're gonna talk about it and we're
gonna see what happens.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
But first previously on First Up Glad eat Or two
and Wickeder Box AMA's Prodigions.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
So this is kind of unbelievable to me, but I
guess we'll see if it happens. Wicked is expected to
pull in a hundred Jason, watch out. They're gonna scoop
you for the sequel part two. It's coming there. It's
expected to pull one hundred and twenty five million to
one hundred and fifty million domestic opening this weekend. That's

(02:08):
why it go hear well. I have been very interested
to see how positive the reviews have been from all
kinds of spaces. The trailers have not been showcasing the
best of the movie, apparently, and apparently on the big
screen it looks a lot more like a traditional, beautiful
Hollywood classic than the kind of, you know, heavily cged

(02:34):
version that we're seeing when it translates to trailers. I'm
interested to see how that goes. And I do love Wicked,
so I'm a sucker. I will be there.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
I remember reading the book.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
Oh Man, Me Too when I was a kid.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
In like in high school or something, and being like,
holy shit, this is awesome, and never expecting that they'd
make it into it.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
No and the and yeah, the songs of bangers and
it's gonna be This has been a wild press tour,
so that's gonna be one that lives in infamy, and
it will be interesting to see how it does. Also,
you know that they think the movie is going to
be successful because they've already announced the on Christmas Day
they will be releasing a singer long version that actually

(03:19):
has all the words and everything and kind of encourages singing,
So that'll be interesting and it's not just Wicked. Opening
this weekend, we also have Gladiator two, which has already
been a sizeable hit outside of the US, and it
will be hitting stateside sixty million plus opening, so actually
very similar Barbie Oppenheimer's styles. It will be the biggest

(03:42):
start for an rated movie in November and the best
ever three day total for Ridley Scott and star Denzel Washington.
I also think this could go a little bit higher
because of things like forty X and IMAX. It'll be
interesting to see, and also we know that there's a
lot of people who just love thinking about the Roman Empire.
We are we are obsessed with the Roman Empire, as a.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
P as a race, as a human beings.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
We are obsessed with them. So that, yeah, it's gonna
be interesting. I do think this is the closest that
we've had to a Bobenheimer. As much as every studio
has tried to make it happen, I think this one,
box office wise, is gonna be our closest.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
So next up is Ridley Scott and he's out here
denying Denzel Washington's Gladiator. I'm sorry, Ridley Scott. I've seen
Gladiator two and absolutely there were like twenty five moments
where there were obviously could have been a gay kiss.
I'm not believe in this, Ridley Scott.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
It is sprinkled all through it. So for those who
of you who missed it, Denzel Washington referenced a same
sex kiss that was in a Gladiator two but that
he says was cut because the powers it be in
the studio or wherever whoever got quote unquote chicken. Ridley
Scott comes out and says, no, that's bullshit. They never

(05:06):
did backed at the moment it didn't happen, he says. Now,
Denzel said, just you know, just for context, ends it
was saying it was just like a peck on the lips, which,
by the way, I don't know. I grew up around
a lot of Italians. There's a lot of saying on
the cheek. Yeah, like there's a lot of guys kissing
on the cheek, and that was very normal. That said,

(05:28):
he continues, quote it really as much ado about nothing,
Denzel said, they're making more of it than it was.
I kissed him on his hands, I gave him a pack,
and I killed him. I'll say this, I mean, he's
spoiler his character backrod Is at one point says, yeah,
I like a guy sometimes too.

Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah. But it's funny because throughout the movie and the screening,
I was in like a home every time that he
was seeing someone and being a little bit fruity with
and we were like, this is why they cut it.
This is where they cut the guess like, so sorry,
It's it's just how it is, Ridley Scott. Everyone's always
going to be thinking about Denzel's gay kiss that got

(06:06):
cut because he's Denzel Washington. He's the best thing about
the movie.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Next up, spoiler alert, glad Eater Too is done historically accurate.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
Why did anyone think it was historically accurate. That's my
first thing.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Historian Charlotte Higgins has come out and said, it's none
of this shit. You would have appaed there's no sharks
the area. Da YadA, YadA, YadA. Don't worry about it, folks,
don't worry about it. But yet, yes, historians are upset
at Ridley Scott, yet again, continuing the theme from from Napoleon,
where Napoleonic historians were equally as pissed at really Scott,

(06:45):
they continue to be mad at him. He's a filmmaker,
not historian. It's fine.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
Yeah, this is one of the funniest things. It's like
they upset because like Denzel Washington drinks what looks like
a coffee not around for a thousand years, or tea
only has it at a cafe, there aren't any while
reading a paper. Only China has paper, guys. Come on,
it's like he's just He's just a guy reading a paper.
Like it's fine, don't worry about it.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Also, though, the criticism that the real Emperor Caracalla is
like a tougher looking guy based on coins in his statue.
Come on, we don't have a photo, right, who cares,
so shut.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Up, shut up?

Speaker 4 (07:24):
Is that that? I guess what? They didn't even know
what a shark was. I don't care because as a
movie going individual, I'm not going to gladiate it too
because I want to know about history.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
If I want to do that, I'll read the horrible
history books.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
I want to see the Colosseum flooded, and I want
to see men having to fight for their lives as
sharks eat them. That's why I'm going to the cinema.
I'm not going there to learn about ancient Rome.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
The problem with our education system is not Gladiator Too
and reading. That's God's depiction of the of the fucking
Roman Empire. Coming up next a Gladiator gladiat two Gladiator

(08:17):
too quick recap off the top of the Dome of
the Dome. It is sixteen years after Maximus's glorious death
in the in the arena. But guess what, nothing has changed.
In fact, it got worse because now.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
That's too creepy antas.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, Cobbins killed the last good emperor who is his dad,
and we followed up from there, which is a bunch
of bad emperors. And now we've got twin co emperors
Galba and Caracalla, and they're a fucking mess. The empire
is worse than ever. And we open it the Kingdom
of Numidia, which spanned what is much of what is

(08:56):
modern day Algeria. The Romans are going in. They're gonna
conquer it. And guess who lives there? A guy named.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
Hanno who is strange name choice.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
The son of Maximus and Lucilla from the first movie.
He ran away and now he's living here in in Numidia.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
Because it's a legacy sequel, you have to have that
kind of.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Strange connecty, some sort of genetic air to the characters
from the first film. Anyway, Numidia falls, his wife and
his wife is killed. There's a lot of frigid in
this movie.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
Oh baby, the women are getting fridged, and they get
fridged in the same way every time.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
It's so funny. What do well ship?

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Is there?

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Do we do? We have need to come up with
a different term. If there's no refrigeration.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
No, I think it's been like it's been dry aged.
It's been it's been long enough that we know what
fridging means. But hey, you could say they've been arrowed
because they both get shot in chests with an arrow,
so we can make up our own new term.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
So Hannah now has this grudge against the Roman Empire,
and in particular the general who carried out the attack,
who led the attack, Marcus aicacious oh lad By the underused,
very underused, the sexy Pedro. We talk about that I

(10:26):
needed a little bit more Pedro.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
They should have used him more. He's a very interesting
character who gets to have an emotionally conflicted relationship with
being a part of a colonizer at all, and I
think that that would have been very interesting to explore more.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Hannah is taken prisoner. He ends up at a gladiator
school run by Macrinus Denzel Washington. Macronus is a a
very successful procure trainer and purveyor of gladiator content, and

(11:06):
he sees something in young Hanno, a rage that is
very attractive to him, and he thinks, I can use
you to further my ends, which are mysterious for much
of the movie they are.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
And also, can I just say the rage that he
sees in Hannah comes from the fact that Hannoh kills
a baboon by biting its arm. It is in one
of the most outrageous and early scenes of the movie
where they unleash baboons and he's like fighting the baboon
and the boon scat of him, and then he's killing
the baboon. If you're a person who frequently goes un

(11:44):
does the dog die, this is not the movie for you.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yo.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
No, there's a there's a tremendous amount of tremendous amount
of cg and alness, but like animal carcasses abound. Macrinus
takes hand to Rome and shows him off. Yeah, he
has him do a private gladiator fight in front of
the emperors, like in a private house. Uh, the house

(12:11):
of this guy Thracks is his name Thrax.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
I think it's Thrags or Thracks, But yeah, he who
seems like a big contender for someone Denzel may have kissed.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, Thrax is like a senator level guy who has
his fingers in a lot of pies around Rome, and.

Speaker 4 (12:27):
He has a serious gambling problem and is a serious
gambling problem.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
And in what I think is the best line in
the movie, Uh, Denzel ends up like basically taking over
this guy's house because this guy owes him so much money.
And I think the best line of the movie is
is backward is going I own your house?

Speaker 4 (12:51):
Yeah, I own your house, So get back in?

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Is like at anyway, While this is going going on
and Hanno is going through various gladiator bouts across Rome, Lucilla,
daughter of Marcus Aurelius, is still pining over her missing son.
She is now married to General Acasius, and she continues

(13:22):
to harbor her father's dream of a revitalized Roman republic,
and she's looking for a way to unlicia conspiracy, by
which the twin emperors are overthrown and the senators are
put back in charge and Rome is given back to
the people.

Speaker 4 (13:41):
I have to say she is that is what she
claims she wants. But she's also married to the guy
who's just been going around doing stuff for the twin empress.
So I feel like there's a conflict of interest here.
I feel like she could have she could have worked
a bit faster to get it back.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Just to put a finer point on that, Marcus Eurelius
was complaining about how depraved Rome had become, and there
was a dream of Rome. You only need to whisper
its name and it would disappear. It was so so fragile.
It's like, hold on, you're the emperor, right, couldn't you
do something about it? Like it seems like the guy

(14:17):
to talk to you about fixing it is you. How
about I get it that you couldn't figure it out.
I don't know if you couldn't put your dream into action,
I don't think anybody else is going to be able to,
because you are literally the emperor of my fucking guy anyway.
So that's Lucilla is continuing to conspire. There are a

(14:41):
bunch of gladiatorior matches through which Hanno like grows and
grows and grows in influence in Rome because everybody's like, wow,
cool guy. Meanwhile, Macrinus continues to plot. Everything comes to
a head. Macronus ends up engineering the deaths of the

(15:03):
emperors in order to wipe out Marcus Aurelius's bloodline. Hanno
and Macronus have a big fight, and then Hanno makes
like a big speech in front of the dueling armies
of Rome, the Praetorians and this kind of rebellious army
that had been assembled by Lucilla and Asia. General Acasius

(15:26):
and he I guess unifies the the the armies of
Rome who acclaim him, and that's and that's basically the
end of the movie. Yes, am I wrong?

Speaker 4 (15:38):
Correct?

Speaker 1 (15:39):
He then he then tells everybody who he is, and
everybody's like, okay, yeah, let's know. Uh, well, we're going
to take a break to talk to our sponsors, who uh,
you know, are just chomping at the bit like a
bunch of Mediterranean sharks swimming in the Amphithea. And then

(16:01):
we'll be back and we're gonna welcome back super producer Joel,
who I watched the movie with last night, and watched
the movie with all of us, and we're gonna discuss.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
Glad You're too.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Welcome back, Joelle, Welcome to the program.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
Yo.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Let's discuss hi now, glad eat too? And our overall thoughts.
What are our overall thoughts? Joel? Let's start with you.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
I think I had turned to you at the end
of the movie and gave a look of like huh.
And I think maybe the final shot of that movie
sums it up perfectly. If you've seen the first movie,
you know there is a motif of Max was walking
through a wheat field and it's akin to heaven. You
understand this is his ideal. He wants to go home,
he wants to be where the wheat is growing. It's beautiful, Okay.

Speaker 5 (17:05):
The final sequences.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
His son picking up some dirt and being like, Dad,
speak to me, and the sky looks really cool in
like the late nineties, early two thousands kind of way,
clouds just racing across.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
I will say I love the I love the different
visual motifs that they've there's a different visual palette in
this movie that I like.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
I do like as well that he gets his own
weird underworld kind of off the life segment Heaven. He
is more like he has to fight his way back
from the underworld, which I thought was interesting. But yeah,
when it's the end and he's like that talk to
me and then it's just like fallows on the whe

(17:46):
I'm like, come, actually.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
It's just like that.

Speaker 5 (17:51):
And you're just like, wait, what is this movie about?

Speaker 1 (17:53):
What happens? I mean, Joelle, you're I remember turning to
you when we both kind of look gave each other
look and my initial I like the movie. I want
to say that this is it's not a bad movie.
It's it's a fun movie. It is a fun movie,
but it doesn't have you could my senses, it will
not have the resonance of the original.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
I don't feel like the longevity.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Indeed, it also feels like three movies kind of mashed
together before we get into that. Rosie your thoughts, No, no,
I agree.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
So I saw it in forty X, which was honestly
one of the most could.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
You smell it silly? Yes, the smell? Did the shirt
spray sprayed me with water and not just that.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
I don't know if you've ever been to like London
dungeons or like a museum where they try and replicate
the sense of like you're in medieval times or whatever. Dude,
they sprayed out so many nasty smells during that movie.
But the worst part was when they were burning the
bodies at the beginning in Numidia and they put like

(18:55):
a barbecue smell out and I was like, guys, I
don't want to smell like the bush.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Of a conquered somebody.

Speaker 4 (19:05):
Some I was like, guys, I don't this is not
the correct smell. But yeah it was. I san I
am very used to at this point these kind of
like legacy sequels where they're essentially more of a remake.
I do think this one is interesting because it is
that until you know two thirds of the way through

(19:27):
the movie, and then it changes focus too. Uh you
know the character who I do think is the most
interesting character in the movie, which is the Denzel Washington character.
But complete make that decision sooner, Ridley Scott.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Let's okay, So before we get to that important question
that must be answered, which we raise in our various
preview episodes going into this, does Paul Mescal plays Hanno,
the son of Maximus? And and uh so does Paul

(20:01):
Scout have the juice? Yes or no? Joelle? Does he
have the juice?

Speaker 3 (20:07):
Here we go, Okay, here's my takeaway. Russell Crowe comes
in at like thirty six. I think is an actor
when they're filming.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
Yes, so much present.

Speaker 5 (20:20):
He is a fucking leader. You understand immediately I'll follow this.
I'd have no training in war, but if he was
like you got this, I'd be like, we totally have this.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
You would follow him into war. And it's so precise
and clean. He's focused, he's and he's like a very
full adult. He's like, I have a family, I just
want to go home and I'm tired of work. Oh
I hear you, buddy, I get it. Paul reads to
me very young like yes, which is fine except for
that they place his story immediately over Russell Crose and
because of that, he's not allowed to have the juice.

(20:51):
I think performance wise, there are moments where you're like, oh,
Paul is giving it to me. Look at how he's
buddy buddy with everybody. He's much more of a bro
than a leader. And I I don't think they hit
that angle strong enough.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
I completely agree, but let Rosie you go first.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
Juice juice or no juice, juice the juice omitter. At
the beginning, my friend Annie looked at me and she said,
she said, he doesn't have the juice. She said that
to me, and I said, I looked at her and
I was like, I think you're right, but I'm not
gonna lie. I think for the third part of the movie,
the part where it's this different movie that follows, you know,

(21:26):
the Denzel Washington character, I feel like there is a
version of Hannah where Paul Mascal does have the juice.
When he's basically like like Joelle said, he's more of
this kind of like every man, so of the earth,
like friend and that's how he gets people, and that
is so opposite from the Denzel Washington character who just

(21:47):
wants power, who wants to be on top. That that
works really well. So at the end I was like, Okay,
he does have the juice for this part of the movie,
but I don't think for the first two parts. I
don't know if he had the juice. Though I will
say the Boon fight scene he had the juice for
that scene. That's not a lot of who would have
given it as hard as he gave it in that scene. Jason,

(22:08):
what about you?

Speaker 1 (22:10):
I think that he has some juice, But like Joelle,
I think it's they didn't squeeze his unique juice in
the right way for this film. I think you're absolutely right.
There are moments. Here's the two things that I think
stood out to me as oh shit, that's some juice.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
That's some that's some deliciously freshly squeeze.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
That's some uniquely Irish mescallion scenian juice. Here is the
two things. One his voice. He is such a resonant
basso voice, and it's such a laconic role. Right, He's
got to talk, He's gotta speak more. Yes, because when

(22:56):
he speaks, I am like leaning forward too. He does
have a uniquely he's younger obviously, I think he's like
not quite thirty canonically in this his character in this
in this, in this film, and thus there's like a
jocularity and a joking around like his his fellow gladiators

(23:18):
kind of like mock him for the thing and it's
and the way he deals with it is wonderful and
those two things that kind of very irish wit and
his deep voice. I wanted more of those truths, and
I felt like I didn't.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
Yes, he should have held right back with them and
become back like I was like, what's happening here?

Speaker 2 (23:42):
I think it was a nice building.

Speaker 5 (23:44):
He played it well, but for me, I do think as.

Speaker 4 (23:46):
Well, like the choice to always have him not speak
and then you're like, oh, well, when he does speak,
it makes such an impact. But I'm like, no, he's
a great speaker. He's an Auretsa, Like he has this
wonderful voice and people listen to him and so like
you get those moments when he does the poetry to
quotes true jumpers and stuff, and I'm like, but let's

(24:07):
have more of that, like not always people dude.

Speaker 5 (24:11):
Quotes what kind of person quotes poetry?

Speaker 3 (24:14):
And then at the moment of uniting your country in
the finale.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
I'm not a speaker.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
I was like, what you quoted Virgil at the presence
of the twin emperor?

Speaker 4 (24:25):
You know?

Speaker 3 (24:27):
And it was perfect after straight killing a man, after
begging him to be like, bro, we don't have to
do this for their entertainment, and that guy was like, actually, bro,
I'm bought in on the entertainment aspect of it, and
I came to lead. He's like, merks him in up
one of my favorite fights of this film, and then
he quotes Virgil. It's the twins are so confused. It
sparks something and the guy who owns him right now
like it's a perfect sequence. I don't understand why, Yes,

(24:49):
there it works. And then at the end they were
just like, I'm not a no, we get it.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
You're a man of the people, know, say something cool.
Your dad taught you cool poetry. That's a good thing,
like it would.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
There's also there's also a moment where he's like, as
you may have noted, like I love an irishman, I
really do. I'm a fan of Irish culture and history
and an Irish hell. I just think that, you know,
a lot of our a lot of the a lot
of our fantasy tropes come from Irish folklore, which is
very interesting to make sure. Anyway, Uh, Mescal has this

(25:23):
very like in my mind irishman thing where where when
he really gets like reving talking wise rack in his
rant con tour mode, he kind of goes out of
the side of his mouth, like you see his mouth
go like this, and he starts out of the out
of the side. And there was a couple moments like

(25:44):
that where he was like addressing gladiators and stuff and
doing that, and I was like, yes, more but and
we just and I felt like that's the Mescal juice
and we needed to get more into that, more into
that juice.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
I will also say that for me, it felt like
at a certain point making this movie, people got worried
that Mescal doesn't have the juice and they were like,
more Denzel like, ramp it up. Maybe he's the guy
and the juice, the juices, Like the arena is filled

(26:27):
that his juice, and that is what the sharks are
swimming in. The swing did sell.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
His wardrobe, choreography, constantly adjusting and positioning, the dangling of
the This is an actor who has full understanding of
how a wardrobe can increase your character, but who also
gets to be He gets to finally be in his
old man era. He's like, I'm not going for rewards,
I'm not really here to you anything other but freaking master.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
Probably the only person who will even look in at
awards from this movie.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
I think he I think he'll get down. Also, he
should be, Yes, he should be.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
Denzel Like, no one can wear a slightly little air
ring like Denzel.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Like, he's gonna.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
Wear that sly little air ring and he's gonna be
like looking around with that grin, and you're just thinking,
like you can arm Like I believe it.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
You're gonna do the lighting in the chaos in the back.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yes, again, the moment where he he's fully like trapped
tracks in his web of debt. He's made him completely
a creature of his own ownership. And there's that moment
where he'd get knocked on that's his door and is like,
this is my house now, and he goes in various

(27:47):
ways just says this is.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
My house, gets out, gets out.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
And that was truly the most magnet for me, the
most magnetic scene in the entire film, where I'm just
like more of the Bill Washing did say, get out
of my fucking house.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
So good house.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
He's having so much and Timmy Jay gives him a
lot to play off of as their acts is really debul.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Now, this is a film that is missing an antagonist
for much of it, and I think that's part of
the play.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
I think they could have.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
It's unclear who the who the bad guy is. You
think it's maybe Acacious, because it's not Hannah wants to
kill him. You think it's maybe the Twin Emperors because
they're so despicable and and we should.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
Have got more of them because they have so much fun.
They did a great job, they knew what they needed
to do, scene chewing like growdious and just instantly hate
the ball. But then they get you know, dispensed with
pretty quickly. Though. I will say in forty X spoiler alert, guys,

(28:54):
when Denzel chops one of their heads off, they sprayed
us with water and every in the cinema.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
And yeah, good. Anyway, it emerges. It emerges maybe two
thirds of the way third act. It emerges that oh,
Macrinus is our antagonist and has been pulling these strings up.
And my problem and my issue. I love that, I

(29:21):
truly love that. I just wish that had been in
the entire movie exactly because two issues for me with that. One,
it's not clear throughout the entire movie who the bad
guy is, and it should and if it was going
to be Macronus, I love it, but there should have
been more stuff, definitely. Two, let's talk about what Macronus's
motivation is. Why is he trying to tear down the

(29:42):
emperor Empire? Now he says something I'm but I'm not
sure it sells. He basically is, like he tells Lucilla,
he reveals that at one point Marcus Aurelius had owned him.
He had been an enslaved person in the service of
Marcus Aurelius, and that apparently is why he wants specifically

(30:04):
to tear down the Emperor the Empire and wipe out
her bloodline. Did that carry for anybody, because it kind
of didn't sell for me.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
To me, it's sold because I just think that that's
like But ironically I think the issue is Denzel sells it.
But also that is almost like a that's an uncorruptible reason,
Like we can't be mad at him because of that,
So like that doesn't make him an antagonist. And I
think that's the issue is like that reveal and be like, oh,

(30:36):
and he's our antagonist because he wants to wipe them
out and it's like pro Rome sucks and he was enslaved.
So actually, like go for it, Denzel, Like I don't
think they were clean.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
I'm totally fine with that being a motive, right, Like
I think you have zero rights is a great reason
to want to tear down Empire.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Completely understand that.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
But from a character building I want to be on
this guy's side sort of element. They don't give you
an interpersonal reason, that's true. They don't explore what that
was specifically like for him. They don't showcase any other
ways he's tried to maneuver through this side society. He
seems to have a grudge against Rome, but Rome as
an entity, it's people. The people he's with all the

(31:15):
time haven't seemed to do anything to him, which is
maybe not the case. Maybe Rome's been a healthscate for him.
But enough about his interior life, That's what I'm saying,
And he seems to want to. He's almost the complete
embodiment of it. He even has this line throughout where
he's like, it's a quote from the emperor who owned him,
granddaddy Emperor's Does anyone remember the direct quote?

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Oh, it was. The greatest revenge is to to become
unlike the person who did the injury.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
Mm hmm. How does he And he says that he no, no,
he doesn't. He says he disagrees, your dad was wrong.
The best thing is to become the person who did
the injury, and then you go on from then you
you do it yourself, like you do your own version
of the terrible thing, which I think they just it

(32:06):
feels like they just put that line in there at
the end to be like, this is why he's doing it.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Let me pitch my better version of Yeah, this is full.
This is with full acknowledgment that really Scott is a
genius and has given us over the course of his
uh you know, incredibly stellar career, various movies that are iconic.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
Here it is, Brandy.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
I think you make it, first of all, you make
it more obvious that Macronus is the central figure. And
I think you do it this way. I think it's
really dumb that Hanno is the natural child of Maximus
and Lucilla. I think that's a stupid party. I think
that's really a dumb through line, like it doesn't make sense,

(32:53):
like something genetically passed to him and he has the
same kind of magnetism therefore because his father's I think
that's so stupid. Here's the better version to me. Macrinus
has a grudge against the Empire because Marcus Aurelius wasn't
the great man that everybody thinks he was. He had
a personal relationship with him, was enslaved by him, and

(33:14):
bears a grudge against Rome, the emperors, and the Aurelian
family in particular. He knows that Lucilla, still a major
player in Rome, has been looking for her son who
disappeared in the wake of Maximus. Is the whole Maximus
thing that was going on in Rome. And he finds
this guy Hanno in nu media and thinks, oh, this

(33:38):
is perfect. I'm going to go to Rome with this guy.
I'm going to pass him off as the sun Maximus
and Lucille. I love that, and I'm going to use
him as a pawn to tear down the Empire that
to me is like a very simple arc and a
fun movie where we don't have to be like where

(34:00):
we don't have to deal with this weird the son
of Maximus thing that to me doesn't really go.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
But also if they wanted to, they could still at
the end have a moment between him, like between Hannah
and Loscilla that implies that he really is the son,
just like Anastasia, you know, maybe yeah, you could have wait.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
You don't know, you know, rather than it being like
shouldn't know.

Speaker 4 (34:24):
The funny thing that I the thing I found the
beginning of the like throughout the movie, it both enticed
me and like frustrated me, was there was this version
of the movie where it was like kind of this
mystery about Maximus and this mystery of who Maximus was,
and and then like Maximus is his father, but at

(34:46):
the same time he knew Lascilla was his mom. He
recognized Luscilla his mom, so there really wasn't a mystery,
And it was a shame because I felt like there
were these moments like, you know, when the guy who's
been healing him shows him the underground tomb where Maximus's
armor was that was really evocative and fun and quite

(35:07):
like spoaky and interesting. And I feel like there's a
version I think that you're kind of anister Anastasia idea
where it's like it's a it's a play, could have
added to that potential mystery and that that touch more
simple narrative that this movie does end up feeling like

(35:28):
it's three different movies, but it's three fun movies to watch.
But it's not like when you rewatch Gladiator, which we
did for our rewatch episode, which was really fun. You know,
I was shocked by how good that movie still felt.
I was like, whoa, this is like I understand, like
this is going to go down in the Hollywood cannon.

(35:49):
This movie does not necessarily feel like that. You know.
It definitely feels like a late stage sequel that Hollywood
is very into putting out right now. But I will say,
in Ridley Scott's favor, I appreciate that this is that
late stage weird as fuck Ridley Scott shit where he's
just like I'm putting sharks in the colosseum, like I'm

(36:11):
having a baboon fight, Like you don't tell me what
to do. I'm fucking Ridley Scott, Like, that's the best
stuff to me from his most recent kind of over Like,
I really really enjoyed the weird late stage alien movies
that he did that are just so un like Hollywood
and so unsellable, and he's just like, they've got nothing

(36:32):
to do with other ones, and if they do, it's
in the weirdest possible way. And I appreciate that, like
fuck uness of somebody who's been around in the business
for so long. But speaking of Ridley Scott and his movies, Jason,
what was the last time When was the last time
that Ridley Scott made like a truly great in the
Hollywood canon movie.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
We'll be right back after a quick brick and we're back.
Let's go twenty first century. Let's count up the twenty

(37:12):
first century of Ridley Scott, and it obviously starts with
Gladiator two thousand. Wow. I think is a great movie.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
Fantastic movie.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Awesome movie.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, two thousand and one, Black Hawk Down. I'll be
honest with you, I thought Tony Scott did this movie,
and in retrospect, I guess, okay, Ridley Scott made this movie.
I think that's a fine action movie, but also not
like a timeless no, and also.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
Like aged very badly politically as we understand more about
those kind of conflicts in the way that they are
then represented in Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
It we're just we were gunning down Somali's left and
right in this movie and in a completely thoughtless kind
of kind of way. Next, Hannibal two thousand and one.
Didn't love this movie, but I thought there were some
really creepy fun moments. Yeah. Any thoughts on on Hannibal

(38:08):
two thousand and one.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
No, The truth it's hard to come in to a
franchise and be like, yeah, Hannibal, I'm gonna do the
late stage. The truth is, is it a fun movie
to watch?

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (38:18):
Is it Silence of the Lambs?

Speaker 1 (38:19):
No?

Speaker 4 (38:20):
And then were you also even more hindered by the
fact that you know, twelve years later somebody like Brian
fill is gonna come out and make a seminal Hannibal
story Like, but it's still got some fun moments and
Anthony Hopkins is having time of his life.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Match stick Men, Nicholas Cage, the Wonderful Sam Rockwell and
Alison Lohman. Where she been about these kind of u
two con men who become like father figures to a
burgeoning con artist. This is fun, a fun movie. Smaller movie,
and I like when Ridley Scott goes small like this.

(38:57):
Mm hmm, so good movie but certainly not like a
timeless classic. Next two thousand and five's Kingdom of Heaven.
Bad movie in the theaters, but the director's cut, I
maintain is you are a true believer. In the director's cut,
it's an indible film, like truly an unbelievable really great action,

(39:17):
incredible central character arc, wonderful like battle scenes, awesome, good movie.
Two thousand and fives Came to Heaven, A Good Year,
two thousand and six, Anyone A Good Year?

Speaker 4 (39:29):
I have never seen this movie. It has Russell Crowe
in it, and it's like it's essentially like a Hallmark
movie where it's like a British investment broker inherits his
uncle's chateau where he spent much of his childhood and
he discovers a new, laid back lifestyle as he tries
to renovate the estate to be sold. That sounds like

(39:50):
a Wholemark movie to me.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
Smaller film reuniting with Russell Crowe have not haven't seen it,
so I gonna have to check that One Gangster two
thousand and seven. I like some of American Gangster. I
think the performances, obviously Denzel is incredible, is amazing. I've
said this on numerous other podcasts. I'll say it again here.
American Gangster set in the winter in New York City.

(40:13):
It opens like around Thanksgiving and there's snow falling from
the sky and you can see in the background that
the leaves are still on the trees. It's very clear
they film this like in summer or or spring, and
did summer or spring for winter, and it immediately takes
me out of the fun. I'm sorry. There's copious snow,

(40:34):
fake snow falling from the sky. Everybody's in these big overcoats,
and in the background of every scene full leaves on
the trees, fully bushed out, beautiful, the height of summer trees.
And it's always taken me out of it. And I
can't be unbiased about American guys for that reason. Does
do anybody think American.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
I like that it opened people's minds to the notion
that the police may be involved with drug dealing. I
think that that for a lot of people, like that
was like a really shocking thing, like, oh, the police
were the ones who like bought drugs into these neighborhoods, Like.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
So I appreciate Ridley Scott for opening some people's eyes
to that. But I watched it once. I thought it
was good.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
I just feel like American Gangster works for me on
a couple of levels. I feel like most black gangster
movies that are not black exploitation are like lateies, early
nineties and later like in time period, which is fine,
A lot of those movies are amazing, but like to
get Denzel in the classic like fifties gear, like just
from that level of aesthetics, that's really fun for me.

(41:41):
And I do think we get some great scenes like
Iris elba Is like chewing up.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
The scenery, having a good ass time.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
Like there's a lot of like iconic actors doing iconic
moments in that film. And I also like the idea
like we're not going to get a black like, I mean,
we just got one, but it wasn't very good. I
think exploring how the cops antagonize black organizations into additional

(42:09):
crimes in order to is a fun watch. Yeah, from
that angle, it was fun and it was like done
really well. But to your point, like the vibes of
that movie are a little off, Like you don't get
the I don't even think you get the Crisplake New
York cool all the way through, you know what I mean.

(42:30):
It's it's a missing an element.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
I also feel like you can't do a movie when
you're Ridley Scott and you're doing like a big movie
like that that was obviously a big oscar push movie
that was meant to be another one of those Hollywood
canon movies. You can't just not pay attention to details
like that, like suddenly it's summary and there's too many
trees like those kind of things. I think that stuff matters,

(42:53):
So Jason, I appreciate that that is something that takes
you out of a movie because I also am impact
did by those kind of choices.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Next up the CIA thriller Body of Lies, which is
a fine movie, but I always it's a movie that
I always get mixed up with the Robert Redford brad
Pitt vehicle Spy Game.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
Oh yeah, I prefer Spy Game.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
I think Spy Game is the better version of that. Okay.
Next up twenty ten's robin Hood retelling of the robin
Hood legend. Now here's the interesting thing about this robin
Hood script. It started as a medieval police procedural. Does
anybody remember.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
This, dude?

Speaker 1 (43:37):
No, but I believe it. No. This script was on
the Blacklist for a while, you know, the famous the
list of best unproduced screenplays in Hollywood. I might be
getting this wrong, but I remember this being a very
very buzzy Blacklist script because it treated the robin Hood

(43:57):
legend as a police proceed None of that is evident
in the final film. That said, I don't think this
is a great movie, but I do have a soft
spot for this movie because I think Russell Crow is
good in it, and I think Uh Blanchette is good
in it. And you know, Mark Strong is wonderful, Mark Addie.

(44:19):
You get Oscar Isaac in an early role as a
absolutely villainous and contemptible King John, and it is he is.
He was like, there's this iconic moment in this Robinhood
where he where he says of robin Hood, he goes,
I brad him out and he goes like to the

(44:41):
he goes like to the top floor with the with
the bond read and I've loved Oscar Isaac since then.
Not a great movie, but but a fun movie.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
Yeah, I'm English, so that is just like a lot
of great robin Hoods. And this, to me, I've tried
to watch it many times. I've tried to be open
to it. Oscar Isaac is the best thing about it.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah, he's great.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
I really love the idea that we like it because
we're boring.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
I'm just saying, you guys were not blessed with Like, dude,
when I was a kid. There is literally a TV
show called Maid Marian and Her Merry Men, which.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Was like I used to watch that on BBC.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
It's like a reggae kiddy musical version of robin Hood.
Like we were blessed with many different versions.

Speaker 5 (45:29):
Okay, this one is like it's there.

Speaker 4 (45:32):
I do try and rewatch it every soften because Robinhood
makes me feel nostalgic, just any version. But this one
for me is just like it's too serious. I think
you've got to have a little bit of camp, or
you gotta go like so far to the other side
of seriousness, like Prince of Thebes that it becomes camp.
This for me is a bit in the middle. But
it does have a great cast and Oscar Isaac is

(45:53):
really good.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Twenty twelve, we returned to the alien universe with Prometheus.
We've talked about it. Good movie.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
I'm a Prometheus apologist. It's a good movie.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Next up, twenty thirteen's The Counselor, with a script from
a literary icon and giant one of my favorite authors,
Cormac McCarthy. This movie's a mess.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
It's a hot mess. It's at about the Counselor.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Hot mess. But this is definitely a movie where you
could I mean, the cast is like Fastbender, Penelope Cruz,
Karmen Diaz, Javier Barda, and Brad Pitt and it was
clear that they were like someone was like, hey, Cormac
McCarthy and Ridley scottter doing a movie, and everybody was like, yes,
I'll do it for five in this film. Next twenty

(46:40):
forty text it is God's.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
Oh god, dude, I'm what. I worked to the movie
theater when this came out, and we would like go
in on our lunch breaks and watch it just for jokes.
It was so bad. This is also notable because this
is when Ridley Scott said some real weird islamophobic shit
about why he cast Christian Bale in the movie, and
everyone was like, bro, what's wrong with you? Terrible movie again.

(47:06):
Not when you're doing like a big biblical style movie,
you can't be too serious about it, and if you are,
you've got to be so sincere that it goes the
other way to camp like this is that very middle
ground bad stuff.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Can I say something absolutely? I know this is a
biblical film, but sacrilegious about Exodus, guys, and I think,
I think please. The two thousand and two Rock feature
The Scorpion King is a better film.

Speaker 5 (47:30):
No, I agree, definitely.

Speaker 4 (47:35):
It habits some fun in the ancient times like God's
and King. No fun. No one's having fun, not at all,
just that horrible blue filtering.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah oh yeah. Next up, twenty fifteen's The Martian, from
a best selling book by the novelist Andy Weir. I
like the book, I like the movie. Every thoughts about
the Martian. Great NASA movie, pro science.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
Movie, which is space. If you like growing potatoes and poop,
there's all kinds of things for you here.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Matt Dames, I love a mission impossible in safe like,
just how are we gonna do this? It's it seems impossible,
and then they're like, here's a sprinkle of science and
some fantasy, and then bam, like you say.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
The whole world.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
I would say it's fun.

Speaker 4 (48:19):
For his small movies, this is definitely like the peak
of what he can do when he goes.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
I think you're probably right. I think you're probably right.
I think my one. I think it's a good movie.
I think by one reservation. And the thing I felt
while seeing this was I felt like anybody could have
done this movie. It didn't feel I didn't feel the
really Scottness in it. But that's it's a good movie.
Next up, twenty seventeen, we get Too Alien Covenant.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
I'm a fan. I know it's not I'm a movie.
It's a weird gothic horror in space. I'm in. I'm
a fan. I like it. Good for you?

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yes, and the next is a non fiction adaptation of
a real life Event's twenty seventies All the Money in
the World.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
Most notable because he re recorded all of the Kevin
Spacey scenes and replaced him with I Believe Christopher Plumber.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Christopher Plumber. Yeah, it does feel a little bit lumpy
that way, but I am not the Wahlberg guy. I
do respect the movie. I'm not a Wallburg guy, and
I'm not a big fan of this movie. Next up
twenty twenty one, The Last Duel, Oh, Adam Driver, Julie Comer,
Ben Affleck. I like this movie. I think this is

(49:40):
probably his best film of the second decade of the
twenty first century, if you want to put it that way.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
But I think them is this film might this film
might be a good film. I just can't stand to
watch a bunch of men talk about a woman exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
That's the issue with this is.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
My biggest problem with this movie is like it is
in interestingly shot, it's weird to use as a lot.
He's definitely trying to do like I'm what if I
was small independent Ridley Scott, but I was working with
some of the biggest actors in the world. Also, for me,
the wigs were bad and I would rather like just

(50:17):
just change it's like you say, oh, based on a
real historical story. I would rather see the woman Jewel
just make it up like you got you got blooming
killing even there and you got her like letting Adam
Driver like yea with her. No, I don't. I don't
buy it. I don't want to hear about it.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
I think the thing that was the most interesting thing
about the film is also like the weakest storytelling device,
which is the last duel, which is again I think
it's a good movie. They go through like his version,
the other his version, and then they finally give you
her version, and I think that is really I can

(50:56):
see now like the the idea like, oh, we're giving
her who's the last No, but it's just doesn't it
doesn't it?

Speaker 4 (51:03):
We can her opinion, just have her yess of it
be the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Especially that's the whole I think from her perspective, I
think that.

Speaker 4 (51:11):
The setup of this idea of like what can men
in power get away with and how that hasn't changed
throughout centuries is really really interesting. But yeah, like Joel said,
I don't care about a bunch of men sitting around
talking about women's rape. But the next movie twenty twenty
one House of Gucci. Who doesn't love that movie Gucci?

Speaker 1 (51:32):
You know what? A house of Gucci has a Gucci.
Here's here's my but here's my problem that has a
Gucci And excuse me, I'm talking about here's my problem
with the House of Gucci. I'm watching this and I'm going,
when does it get funny? Because this seems like it
should be funny, right, this should be an That's the

(51:53):
real truth.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
And the only manage money is when Jared Leto shows
up in like full prosthetics and he's like, it's to me, Johnny, Gucci,
I gotta be a part of the Goci and You're like,
what is going on the Gucci?

Speaker 1 (52:08):
You're gonna give it a Gucci brand, and it's like yeah,
Jared Letto is like I'm in Austin Powers for and
everybody else is like, I'm in a serious film.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
I believe.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Just to me, this is consistent.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
This thing about this movie to me is like this
is literally like a made for TV movie. And people
like Ship on Women all the time for watching Lifetime
or watching made for TV movies or rip from the
headline movies. But then when Bridley Scott does it exactly
the same, exactly the same tenor we're all supposed to
be like, yeah, this is like a serious dramatic film. No,

(52:44):
Like you say, Jason should have been funnier.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Should have been a funny movie. I was thinking, I mean,
you see the the like set photos of Letto and
you're thinking, this is a hilarious movie and it just
never well.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
So I will say, I actually know Italian people who
walked out of the movie the and that doesn't happen
very often, that you're like that offended, but that really did.
That was a real thing that happened.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Next up, twenty twenty three's Apple TV plus Sony Pictures
co pro Napoleon. The epic story of Napoleon Bonapart finally
comes to the screen.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
Should have been funnier, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
I think, you know, honestly, like late stage Napoleon is
funny and they play it for lass a little bit,
and that is probably my favorite stuff in the movie.
I thought this movie should have been more. It was
like reaches for epic noss and never gets there.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
I know it's so fortunate for me.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
I'm sorry, Bridley Scott. My ultimate version of Napoleon is
Napoleon from Bill and Ted, and you'll never be able
to top it. That's that's to me. As the historically
accurate version of Billa of Napoleon, that's all I need.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
I don't need the three Now we have Gladiator.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
Honestly, Gladiator too is looking pretty good after your listen
those movies.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
That's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
So let's go in the twenty first century. Where does
Gladiator rank in the Ridley Scott move Is it number one?
It could be.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
I think that when it comes to wide audience appeal,
fun that you have in the cinema, could you take
your family to go and see it during this holiday
you know tunnel that we're about to go into. It's
pretty high up there, because like I like, I really
like Haley and Covenant, I really like Prometheus. I think
both of those could be argued for many years about

(54:36):
their masterpiece status as weird sci fi spaces, but they're
not like wide audience appeal. They're not something that everybody
can watch. They could also be equally as argued as boring,
even though I love them. So, like, I think Gladiated
two is pretty high up there in this over obviously, yeah,
I would say like I would say that it's definitely

(54:57):
in the top three, and the rest of them are
probably contentious. Whether you're an Alien fan or a Kingdom
of Heaven fan, go for it.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Here's my top three Ridley Scott in the twenty first century. Okay,
Kingdom of Heaven number one, director Scott number two, director's
cut number two, the Martian number three. It might be

(55:27):
Gladiator two or pro. I think Gladiator two, and then
and then the Aliens.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
Would finish up the top five.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
And we're not counting Gladiator in our top three.

Speaker 4 (55:37):
Now, we're not counting Gladiators far and beyond. I would
say so.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
I guess here's the question. Has he made a movie
as good as the original Gladiator in the twenty five
years since that movie came out?

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
I don't think he's made a movie as consistently good
as Gladiator, because that is not a movie where you're like,
oh there's a or oh they should have cost someone else.
Most of the other movies can come with a bot.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
I think Kingdom of Heaven director's cut is is on
par with Gladiator. The problem being that one director's cut,
so obviously the theatrical cut is not great. And two,
as we've stated on previous podcasts, Orlando Bloom doesn't quite
have the juice. Even though he's good in this, he

(56:26):
just doesn't He does not have juice. I think my
scale has more juice than Orlando bloom sadly.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Oh absolutely, I see.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
The cultural impact of Gladiator is such that you can
still yell are you not entertaining? And like very into
I think, and really hasn't touched that level of impact
in its films. I think you could argue that Kingdom
of Heaven Instructors Cut or The Martian just from a
structural standpoint, are pretty close to the Gladiator and like,

(56:56):
this is a strong lead with a pretty clean story
that's beautiful to look at and a fun time at
the movies and is engaging to the audience. But there's
just something about Gladiator that I think, again, if I'm
really looking from as an American, like for the American
mystique of cinema, from the height of Russell Crowe as
an actor, to some truly great villain work out of

(57:18):
Joaquin who later goes on to be considered one of
the greatest actors of his generation.

Speaker 4 (57:22):
It is definitely getting to see him that early on
in this like such a fully bodied, horrifying, cool, creepy,
gross role that almost makes it hard to watch. That
is a very special thing, especially against the kind of heroic,
straightforwardness that Russell Crowe brings to the screen as Maximus.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Yeah, I agree, And then there's like a very base
accessible level to the fights in that movie where you
understand like how hard a hit is. And I think
that's like the most important thing in a film is
if I watching the film can feel the hit in
my buy. That to me is like when you're reaching
peak fight sequencing and shooting. And I think the way
the fights escalate really drive the story, which makes it

(58:09):
solidly a Gladiator film with the politics sort of just
surrounding it, and it's delightful.

Speaker 5 (58:14):
It's something I think Gladiator Too misses out on, is
the way the fights.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Can impact narrative storytelling, and also like the drain on
the fighter you're so exhausted for Russell by the end
of Gladiator.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
To your point too about Crow and Denzel Washington's performance
in The Gladiator Too, I also think you're so right
about the way the opening of the first Gladiator, just
in the little gestures and non speaking facial reactions of
different characters gives you everything in that opening scene, like

(58:47):
the tiredness of Marcus Aurelius when the battle is won
and he just closes his eyes and kind of slumps
forward a little bit the way that commitists comes bouncing
out of the her DoD. I miss it, like almost
tripping in the mud, you know, like that joke of
a man, like all of that stuff is wonderful, and
I feel like we never quite obviously Denzel has that

(59:14):
and part of the conversation about Mesco not having the juices,
I don't know that we ever get anything as good
as like Maximus throwing his sword and spitting on the
ground like in Gladiator one, to just be like that's
who that guy.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
Yeah, I think you're right. I also think as well,
we don't get those moments for like the other characters,
whereas we do get them in Gladia A one. And
I do think that part of the issue with GLADIAA
two is even like Lecilla, like what is her life
like outside of just being married and having a son?

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Like do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (59:46):
Like what does she do? What does she enjoy? And
I do I feel like Denzel, it feels like maybe
he had people look over the script, maybe Ridley was
just very inspired by working with him, but the level
of character work he got was so far beyond anyone
else in the movie that you wonder like, where was

(01:00:07):
that for everyone else.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
I just think that that's a guy who knows how
to deliver when the camera is on and there's nothing
on the page for him to say yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
I just think that's what he can bring a level
of like character and vibe to a role, even if
it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Yeah. To Joelle's point, just in the way he wears
his robes and touches his jewelry like that he's giving
you everything and just that, And I think that it's
just a level of craft that I don't know is
there for everybody. I love pagro Pscal, I don't. He
feels like almost an empty space in this movie. Like

(01:00:47):
there's a moment where when he's burning the bodies and
you could feel that he hates what he's doing, and
I wanted more of that, and I just felt like
it came in and came out and then went away.
Your point about Lucilla, here is this woman who at

(01:01:08):
one point in the First Gladiator, Marcus Aurelius is like,
if you had been a man, you should have would
have been my error. Speak on it, Jason, and speak
on so where the I never get the feeling that
it would have been so much more Interesting's not the
tactician here that she would have been so much more
interesting to me if she had been plotting and moving

(01:01:30):
pieces around and doing things, and.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
She could have been doing that for acacious like he
was a hero. There's no reason he wouldn't have been
able to rise those ranks if she was.

Speaker 5 (01:01:39):
Why did she choose him as her chance? Why did
she choose them here?

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Like I I'm well, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
From what I understood in some of the language with
the twins, they're like, don't forget the good graces we
give your wife. Essentially, I think the reason he keeps
serving is so that they don't come after her. And
she's supposed to be there to be taking note, but
to be fair, like I always see her do with
like call yeah, when before we see her constantly listening
in the background, moving around, moving pieces. Too many characters

(01:02:06):
in this film. We have like four solid main characters
and then about five to six of them in the
first film that are background players that are giving you
a lot of direction and information about the world at large.
There's so many people to follow, we never really get
inside and any of them except for Denzel's character. And
on top of all of that, I just don't understand
why am I following Lucia. I don't understand what he's

(01:02:27):
if he's a creature of rage. They don't let him
go far enough. Yeah, right, Like think about the battle
with Pedro. I'm sorry to keep going back to fights,
but I really feel like if you're doing glad of
your movie, like those have got to be peak and
this is one of the weakest points of the film
for me. There's this great battle with Pedro where they
don't let them go along enough in the fight, like
Pedro should be begging for it, like please, I don't
want to fight you listen, And really that fight ends

(01:02:49):
so quickly, even the death of him is so fast
that this very important emotional crux that really should have
driven a further wedge between him and his mother, Like
all of this great like crunchy relation stuff is just
not there, and therefore the movie can't be as good
as the first one.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
I feel like to your point, Joelle, the fights didn't
have stakes in the way that the original.

Speaker 4 (01:03:11):
They were set pieces had sakes building.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Right, Those were emotional story building moments in addition to
being incredible set piece action, And these are just kind
of incredible set piece action, yeah, and you don't feel that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
Emotion, as Joel says, even then they're like not really
long enough. Like the scene in with the sharks and
the boats is really fun, but it's over in like
two minutes, and I think like that here in Gladiate,
it's too They do often replace like that drawn out

(01:03:50):
kind of tooth and claw fight for survival that feels
so real in the first movie. They swap that here
for kind of gore because there are a lot of like, yeah,
brutal gory moments, which like some of the people in
the audience were, and my friend who doesn't really watch
horror were pretty like horrified by in a way that
I think the first movie is a lot more of

(01:04:11):
your classic kind of ben her swords and sandals. There
is brutality, but it's it's encased in this kind of
historical story. This stuff was just like blood sputing like
gore instead of necessarily It's easier.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
To understand the violence in the first one because so
much of it is said like you're like, oh, they're
setting them up to fail, like consistently setting them up
to fail, which you don't get as much as here,
Like you would think, oh, they're frastractional, like, but they're
in the boat. You have to fall off the boat,
and technically they're being shot at, but the boat's pretty big,
and I don't get the sense of them like trying
not to dive. Also, Mediterranean country, some of y'all are

(01:04:46):
good swimmers and know how to fitch.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
Like, I just feel like there's so much where we
could have.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Gotten out of.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Again, all these secondary gladiator characters that are hanging out
in the pits. I don't know any of them, and
that like I missed my gime in Hansu.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Where is he?

Speaker 4 (01:04:58):
They didn't manage to create the true bromance in the
way that was such a big haw of the first one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
It's a good point there was not Hano does not have.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
He doesn't have the best.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
He's like, I believe in you. I guess they try
to create that would Ravi the doctor.

Speaker 4 (01:05:16):
But you know what, that's that's a different relationship because
there's an imbalance that because he needs Rovi to like
keep him alive. And but yeah, there's no Jim in
Russell Crowe chemistry in the same way.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
All of which is to say, I feel like the
reason we respond so much to Denzel as Macrinus is
he does have a couple of those great line moments,
like the one of the moment with Ratso we talked about.
But I also think it's just his understanding of here's
how I tell you who I am. Yes, exactly one second,

(01:05:52):
two second, three second reaction shot where I'm just wearing
my clothes, living my life, watching the things that Macronus watches,
And I just think he's better than that, better at
that than everybody else that's in this movie. Like Connie
Nielsen is just kind of the same Lucilla that she

(01:06:12):
was in the first and to be fair, they don't
give her. I wish they had given her more. But
also I feel like there's something, there's something compelling about
the pairing with her and Acacious that could have been like,
here's Acacius. He's the blunt instrument, he's there smashing, she's
the chess player, and here's how they compliment each other,

(01:06:35):
and and that feels so inert and not there. And
I just feel like part of it is that maybe
I just felt like they didn't sell that party. I
agree enough, and and that's unfortunate.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
I think that when you have something that says beloved
is Gladier. I think that in a wild where everyone
is doing these ip face likelegacy sequels, it's very easy,
especially if you are the original director, as Ridley Scott is,
to be like, yeah, we'll just do it. You just
keep telling the story like it's twenty years later, this
is someone's son. But if you look to the spaces

(01:07:12):
where these have been done best, like the Scream series,
for example, you really have to have people in that
room who are making you do innovative, strange things that
basically justify why the movie is being made. And I
do think to me, Denzel's performance and that introduction of

(01:07:34):
that it's the price swash, the price of admission. But
it is not. This is not going to be in
a conversation like many of these genre movies are, like
the Halloween trilogy or this, you know, Scream five and six.
When Scream Sits came out, people were like, is this
better than the original Scream? And I think that is

(01:07:54):
the power of doing a great legacy sequel. And nobody
is gonna watch this except from two friends who did
come with me, who did enjoy it more than the
first movie. But like, I don't think the general audience
is gonna be having that conversation of is this better
than Gladiator? Does this best Gladiator? I don't think so,
And I think that's the tough thing is if you're

(01:08:16):
gonna revisit something over twenty years later, can you justify
its existence? I think this does by its entertainment value,
but not necessarily by how it will be remembered next
to Glad.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
What are our final grades? Gladiator to our final grades?

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
B plus?

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Okay, it's like it's hitting on almost every level. Like
Paul's having an ec I like, I see the future
of this kid in this role. I'm like, Okay, you've
got a lot of range. There's a lot you can
do in the right role. I think costumes, if y'all
want to oscar.

Speaker 4 (01:08:50):
Yes, mini skirts on men like I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
I was living first of all, and the gorgeous still
gowns and the veil the women get I was like
all the extras.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
I was just looking in the background like this is
a dreamy.

Speaker 4 (01:09:05):
Is unbelievable, Like the layers, the different levels of fabric,
like really delightful. B plus. Okay, I'm gonna go. I'm
gonna go for like a three out of five. I
think this is a solid three out of five. You're
gonna enjoy it if you go and see it. I
don't think anyone's gonna be bored watching it. I think

(01:09:25):
that for certain young actors, they're gonna see those creepy
twins and they're gonna be like, Yes, that's the kind
of career I want to have. I want to be
the weirdo in the movie. I want to be able
to be Johnny Storm but also play this role. You know.
I think that's something that's very inspiring to young actors.

(01:09:45):
And I also think that Denzel is gonna win an
Oscar and he deserves it. And I think this is
the kind of movie that pretty much anyone can enjoy,
which I think is a is a very very very
very wonderful thing to have in a movie theater in
twenty twenty four. So yeah, I must say. I'm gonna

(01:10:06):
say three out of five. It's a solid, like, you know,
seven out of ten, Like it's better than your average,
but it's not gonna blow you away. Jason, what about you?

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
I am going to give it since I'm gonna continue,
first of all, with the theme of each of us
giving completely metrics. I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna give
it two thumbs up. Okay, I think this is a
good a good movie, all right, Roderick. I think it's

(01:10:36):
a good movie. I think Denzel's performance is awesome. I
think Paul Mescal has the juice. He has the juice.
I don't know that the juice was fully realized in
this film, but he had. There is juice. He's there
is juice there, and I can't wait to see more

(01:10:59):
of that juice. And as an action spectacle, fantastic. Two
thumbs up for me, Glad You're too. It left me
wanting more.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Internet.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
The Internet gave it a seventy five over on the ratatos.
We're pretty we're roughly in alignment. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Well, on the next couple of episodes of Extra Vision,
we're diving into the final act of arcane. Oh I
can't wait. The Extras are back Wednesday with a recap
of Dune Prophecy Episode two.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
Special guests from June Pod slash Escape Patch.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Our good friends from the Dune Pod will be joining us.
And then for the holiday week we're gonna be dropping
our must watch Thanksgiving movies. That's it for this episode Thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
For Listening, Bye, Thank You.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kensumsion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer
is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Lawn and
Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi Our discoord moderata