November 17, 2025 • 56 mins
What in the Derry dementia is going on in Derry? Rosie and Jason recap the fourth episode of IT: Welcome To Derry, then invite in the Scream Queens Carmen and Joelle to discuss.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning, today's episode contains spoilers for episode four of IT.
Welcome to Derry on HBO B one. Hello, my name
(00:23):
is Jason Concepcion and I'm Rosey Night and welcome back
to x Ray Vision of podcast, where we dive the
your favorite shows, movies, comics, and.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Pop culture comedy from my heart.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
We'll bring you three episodes plus.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
In today's episode, it's Andy and Barbara Musghetti again and
they are returning to Derry with their new group of kids.
They're traumatizing years prior to the events of the movie.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
But guys, guys, we're getting closer. We're getting closer to
understanding the mystery.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
And as usual, Jason and I will be recapping the
episode together and then we will be bringing in the
Scream Queen's super producers Common.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
And Joel to join us and discuss.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Okay it Episode four, Welcome to Derry, the Great Swirling
Apparatus of Our Planet's Function. Episode written by Helen Shang.
We open fresh after the Graveyard mission. The kids ride
over to the police station with the photos and they're
(01:24):
telling the police chief like everything happened, and they're like, yeah,
it was we did the Santa Ria thing, and we
went there and it was really crazy and check out
these photos. You're gonna be blown away. And the chief
is like, holy shit, and then we see what he
sees and it's just kind of like the ghosts aren't there.
They disappeared, I guess from the negatives. So even though
(01:47):
they were there, when they were they just delusion?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Were they just illusions?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Did they disappear from the photo because of some magic unclear?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
But then they're like, well what about this one? And
they did manage to keep the image of Pennywise in
that very dark and blurry photo from inside the crypt
that Will took.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
But she was like, I don't even that doesn't even
look like anything.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
You guys, You guys are nuts. And by the way,
keep doing this shit, Lily.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
You're going back to.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Hill kids in a house. What about the rest of them?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Just like anyway, but Lily, Lily's got that rep so
she might end up back into the Juniper Hill nuthouse.
And that's pretty scary. The kids talk it over at
school in the gym and they're like, maybe it's like
a Dracula thing, you know, like where the image doesn't
show up, you know, that kind of type of thing.
Ronnie's like, why don't you ask your mom, who's lived
(02:46):
in town her whole life, if she recalls, like any
weird stuff from when she was a kid, Like were
there visions or demons or disappearances, anything weird like that
clown specters, you know that kind of thing. Lily's like,
you know, my mom is not the best person, asks
but I know somebody. So she goes and asks Madeline Stowe,
who they never to my recollection, they have not yet
(03:08):
mentioned her name in this show, but this show, right,
but she's listed as Ingrid on IMDb, and there is
fervent speculation in the It Stephen King It movie communities
that she is the old woman from IT one who yeah,
Ingrid KSh.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Yes, the door who is believed to be the door
of Bob Gray's Penny Wise, that's right, and who runs
naked through the house in it too.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
She runs naked through the house and Ingrid, if that's
her name, does dimly recall something like back in the
thirties and the depression era, kids were going missing, but
it was not there was no spectral clowns earning like
that involved, and clearly like she's the mom that Lily
always wanted, and they're really bonding, and she grabs Ingrid
(03:56):
grabs Lily's hand and says, but it sounds like you've
got great friends, and with your friends, you know behind you,
you guys are gonna beat anything that comes out. Okay,
I'm sure you guys are going to succeed.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Is this because ever since Ingrid was a little kid
and she was the door of Bob Gray and then
Pennywise took over Bob Gray's pace, she's.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Been putting together these teams of kids and doesn't remember.
And she doesn't remember try.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
I don't know, because she's like, she's like, you know,
as long as you've got your good friends, and we
know it's usually like kids, So maybe she doesn't remember.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I thought that too, but she seemed very sincere about
not knowing what Lily was talking about.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Yeah, that the cycle makes people act in weird ways,
So it might.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Be that the that the dairy dementia is just hitting
her where she's done this.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
You know, she's put these teams.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Together that would make a lot of sense compared to
what we see in the fire right too.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And some kind of like essential goodness combined with her
past experiences that she doesn't remember, keeps her in this
cycle of like putting together anti very interesting.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I would like that perhaps Charlotte is at home reading
the news about Hatchet Hank's arrest, and she's obviously extremely
upset about it because we all know it's a big injustice.
There's a knock at the door and it's Rose dropping
off whatever it was that Charlotte bought at the store.
Charlotte invites Rose into coffee, and this scene basically marks like,
obviously a new team up that we're gonna get and
(05:24):
I love to see it.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Rose explains that her.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
People used to roam around the lands around Demi Derry
up to Nova Scotia. Rose obviously is digging politely for
information about the pipeline. Charlotte says, hey, the major doesn't
talk about work, national security and all of that, but
Charlotte wants to know something herself. She wants to know
about the theater event, the missing kids. Do I need
to be concerned about will? She asked, like, is this
(05:47):
something really worrying? And Rose is like, yeah, freaky shit
happens here.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Here's my number.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
She's like very great.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
She's like, yeah, you're right, it's terrible. It's bad. Kids
are gonna go missing. She's like, but here's my number,
and I want to see the two of these guys
team up. And how what a concerning answer.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I was watching this episode. Christina is peaking over my shoulder.
She's like, that's exactly like what your grandma said when
you asked her if exor systems were real.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
I'm like, that was like the same. She was like,
what a worrying answer.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
She's like, yeah, that's happens. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Dick and the airmen get to check out their new
clubhouse and it's like a kind of supply shed that
might be either on the very outskirts of the base
or just beyond the base on a wooded road somewhere,
and the guys are talking about turning you know. It's
like filled with you know, boxes and different shit. And
the guys are like, well, we can put a bar here,
and we can put a little kitchen here, and we
(06:43):
can turn it into nightclub.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Is the dance floor here?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
All great ideas, but Dick, there's a there's a moment
where Dick kind of looks around in a way that
makes you feel like he's sensing some vibes to this area.
At school, Lily is watching, you know, one of the
it was early sixties duck and cover presentations that argued like,
if you just get under your desk, you'll be fine
(07:06):
when a nuke goes off.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
But she's lost trick kids into being relaxed while they die.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Right, I'm behaving, but she's she's kind of lost in
thought with all the stuff going on, and she happens
to catch Marge's eye from she sees Marge looking at her.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
From a cross room and they share this kind of
longing glance.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Will arrives at home and he goes immediately to his
dresser drawer in the back of the bottom dresser drawer
where kids hide everything to go look for the packet
of photos. But I guess to look at them again
and really study them, I guess. But Charlotte has them
and she's like, what's this, Ah, like, what you've been doing?
(07:44):
And Will is like, we've been hanging on the graveyard
and trying.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
To take pictures and sorry.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Charlotte's like, don't do that anymore. And we're not going
to tell your dad about this, but you're basically grounded.
Come home directly from school, don't hang out with your friends,
and it's not because you're in trouble. It's just because
the nice native lady in town told me that there's weird.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So I'm listening, and.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
We're not going to tell your dad, but just and
that means that.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
The next awkward dinner scene is directly connected to those actions.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Dinner at the handleans dad asked about school. Will tries
to say as little.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
As possible, but Charlotte saves him by revealing he has
a crossround a girl. Charlotte tells the major about the girl,
and yes, she is black. Of course it's Ronnie the Icon.
Charlotte wants the major to go spend some time with Will,
so he takes Will fly fishing.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Will is antsy. He's stressed.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
He's trying to keep the fact that he's grounded and
being chased by an evil clown named Pennywise. So when
his dad asks about the girl, Will kind of lose
his AND's up and they catch a fish and he's
reeling it in and this is a fantastic father son moment,
but oh the fish escapes and suddenly Will is alone
(09:07):
on the river as his dad goes to get somebody I.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Know, like worms, who puts the tackle box in the car?
Why in the boat?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Or it should be at the shoreline at the very least.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Whatever come so, but obviously maybe derry dementia made him
do that.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah yeah, so you know.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
So the scene as soon as his father is gone,
it turns ominous.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And this is something I love about this season. They've
done such a good job playing.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
With what may always made it so scary, which is
what's bubbling under the suburban perfectness of Dairy or wherever
else you are, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And a fish, a.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
Huge fish, swims up to him and looks up at him,
and as Will connects eyes and he's like, what the
fuck's going on, a scary demon version of his dad
jumps up Jason.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Vohe's style and pulls him into water, splashing down. The
Major runs back and Will is like, bro, that was
definitely a burned up version of you who just jumped
out there like I thought it was bad And luckily
for Will, you know, Finally the Major sees bruises on
his wrist, yes, and knows that something crazy has actually happened.
(10:18):
It's getting into Freddy Krueger territory. Now the things from
the dreams can hurt you. That makes it much more
easy for Major Handan to believe it. And if you
need a double confirmation, sir. They look back and they
see a red balloon floating in the water in the river,
and obviously Major Handlan sees it too.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Charlotte goes to the police station and she's like, listen,
the the kids are telling the truth. Something crazy happened,
and certainly hatchet Hank was not involved in this disappearance.
And Chief Bowers is not doesn't care, he's not listening
to this. And Charlotte is like, well, has he talked
to a lawyer? And the Chief says, yeah, man, this
(10:59):
is not Mississippi, like we let our imprisoned suspects talk
to their representation. And Charlotte's like, well, I want to
talk to him, and the chief says, well, listen, you're
not the family of the lawyers, so you can't.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
You can't go in there.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Charlotte flips through the phone book and finds the Grogan's number,
goes over there and listens to Granny Grogan basically talk
about what's going on with Hank, and she doesn't believe
that he did this, and Charlotte's like, listen, I've got
experience working with the movement in the South. Okay, I
understand how to use the press, how to use the media,
how to kind of work the levers of the legal system.
(11:36):
Let me help Ronnie listens in the doorwaywhile in the
hallway meanwhile, and then we get a cleaning montage. We
see the airmen fix it. Our first montage, I believe
of the show, does we see that?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I feel like it's not a show that heavily uses montage.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
This is no Baywatch, this is not every episode when
one comes it hits.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And the clubhouses looking in really nice. Right, It's you
could see it all coming together. There's gonna be a
great spot. Dick goes to take some of the trash
out and boom, he's hit by that shining and it's
his shinning.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
It's it's the shinning.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
He went out and he took a shin and he
sees his grandmother in the woods and she basically warns
him be careful, don't let whatever evil is brewing escape
from where it is. Keep it trapped where it is,
don't mess around with this. And I think it was
(12:35):
his I think it was his grandmother contacting him through
the shining to tell him like, hey, be careful because
you're messing now with something that is really really dangerous.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yeah, And just at that moment, Major Hanlan pulls up
Leroy and he kind of shakes Dick from the vision
and he's like, hey, what's going on? What as the
General said, what is the point of this? And it's
very interesting because he's just have this vision kind of
telling basically by somebody that he loves telling him, Hey,
this isn't what you're doing is wrong, don't do it.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So this could be an ally.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Ship with lee Roy, but I think at the moment,
you know, he keeps it on the d loo as always,
but he's also like, hey, the General gave us this
clubhouse and I'm not about to go, you know, making
him mad. So now lee Very says to Dick, hey,
my son, he saw a gold version then, like an
evil version of me pulled him into the river and
like it was really crazy and is this something to
(13:32):
do with it? And Dick poker face fails and Lee
Roy knows he's onto something and yes, Dick is like,
I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I just do what I'm told. You know, sure.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Back at the kids' clubhouse, lots of clubhouse action today,
a big clubhouse, big clubhouse episode, big episode of clubhouses.
Will tells his pals about the fishing vision and he's like, well,
I got bruises, so surely it could kill us at
any time. Why doesn't it do that? And the kids
they kind of realized, like the kids who disappeared or
said that they'd seen we stuff that now they know
(14:06):
obviously is true. Will comes up with a theory the
thing loves human meat spiced with fear. Lily's like, well,
what if we can't not be Like, what if we
cannot be scared?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And then Lily's like, here's some pills.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, play play the play pot future beautiful.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Okay, I'll just do it over there.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Molly Percoset, Lily Ronnie Percoset, Molly Percoset, Will Richie Percoset.
I love that this is the idea. It's such a kid,
It's so bad. This is a terrible fucking idea. And
and you'd think that the genius Will, who has a
advanced for a kid grasp of chemistry and science, would
be like, oh, I'm not sure that that's what the
(14:52):
pill does let's really yeah, right if it does that,
But there's it's such an absolute idea that a kid
would come up with. My mom said, this makes her
not afraid of anything and makes all the fears and
anxieties go away.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
It's like y kind of true, but not exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I have to say, I don't know what's gonna happen.
My sense is this is what's gonna happen. They're gonna
take the pills, and of course it doesn't make fear
truly go away, and now they're gonna be trapped for
the duration of the pill in this really heightened like
deep Penny wise hallucination that's not even a hallucination, and
(15:32):
be even more vulnerable. Anyway, that's what I think is
gonna happen. I can't believe Lily did this. And by
the way, her mom is the type to notice that
those pills are gone, so I.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Know I was gonna say as well, like, oh, Lily,
my friend, this is not good.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Next in science class, Uh, there's a snail presentation the
you know, and the big, long, stocky eyes of the
snail will be important here. Margely, spurred on by mean
girl Patty, asks Lily in a very kind and empathic way,
like let's hang out. It's been a long time, I
(16:09):
miss you. And clearly some new kind some Carrie Ish
bullying is afoot, and Stephen King is you know, Stephen
King has given us some of the most intense and
visceral scenes of bullying ever put to the page or film,
and this is in that vein. Meanwhile, Captain Russo sees
(16:30):
Charlotte going to the jail and what's she doing. Charlotte
has a note from Missus Grogan saying that she has
permission to visit Hank, so what's up? Can she visit Hank?
Charlotte refuses to leave when they're like you gotta wait
for the chief, and she's like, listen, I can make
I know how to use a phone, I know how
to talk to the press. I can make this a mess.
(16:54):
She gets in and Charlotte tells Hank that first of all,
she looked like at his arrest documents and is like,
they didn't do this, that and the other. So actually
they should let you go, and they haven't, Like there's
a bunch of reasons that you should get out of
here and let me.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Do my thing.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
You're gonna have to go to trial, but you can
be on your own recognisance outside while you wait for trial.
You don't have to sit in jail while you wait
for this. However, there's one thing. I have to know,
where were you?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Because your alibi doesn't line up? Okay, and you can't
say where you were, so you know where the fuck
were you? And Hank is like, okay, you really want
me to talk about it, I'll talk about you really
want to know?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Here's why I was.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I was fucking a woman, a white woman, and we
all know that that could be a death sentence for
me anyway, and maybe even her.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So now what are we going to do about this information.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Speculation about who it is?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Later?
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Yes, the group gets together in uh the military base.
The colonel tells the general that the areas that Rose
told him to stay away from and nothing special. Rose
is smart. The general is upset because he knows the
cycle is ending soon. The general gets an idea.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
He grabs a file.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Inside there are security pictures of local Indian kids peeking
through the fence. The general wants a trap laid for them.
Oh my god, my guy, Like, could you just leave
these people alone?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Like what the fuck bro, Like, also, do you not always?
You haven't always record the fact.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
That you've forgotten a lot of stuff, Like how about
you just go and have a real conversation instead of
acting up?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Oh, here we go.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Marge, Marge, Marge, Marge, March, Marge, Marge, Marge, Marge, March.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
At lunch, Marge grills Lily about Ronnie Grogan and Marge
is really really laying it on thick. I'm like, Lily,
please escape this.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Marge is not a good person. I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Patty and the mean girls watch from afar and then
the carry of it all begins to happen, the true Carrier,
classic trick that has been done many times, many many times.
Tim the sexy high school quarterback jock sports king.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I don't know, he's just one of those guys that
people like.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
And he comes over to say hi, and Marge of
course is like totally go talk to him, like.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Go do it, don't do it.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Patty is ecstatic, she can't wait. Marge is torn, but
you did it so not really.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
She's not really you did it? Like sure?
Speaker 4 (19:47):
She follows Lily to the bathroom, where her alleged best
friend is really freaking out. She goes to pe understandable
it's nerve wracking to see a hot jock or whatever,
and Marge is like, Okay, I'm waiting. But then she
starts looking in the mirror and her guilt and her
fear start coming in, and she has the realization that
(20:08):
she has to tell Lily that something really bad is
gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Tim is not into her and it's totally a setup.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
But then she's like, oh, oh, my eye, Why is
my eye so painful?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Dud, dud, dud. They're just just.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Popping straight out theirs, just just snail eyed, just just
jiggling down the face like crazy stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Couldn't honestly believe anything I've seen before.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Lily's like, I know, my valley, I've dropped it down
the toilet, my toilet percoset, my toilet, percocet. My just
walking down the big traumatizing a million kids. Her eyes
popped out of her head. And then Lily's got a
percocet from the toilet and she's following Marge when I
just trying to cut her eye stalks out.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
She's trying to gouge him out of her head. Lily
pits much from cutting her eye out.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
But now, of course it looks like Lily was the
one who attacked Margin. How crazy eye stalks, which, by
the way, may be scariest scene so far.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I don't know, it was scary to me.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I mean, listen, Lily, let her cut her eyes, just
let her do it.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I mean, business much of a good friend. It's like,
give you break because you're just staying yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Up and I and I love that you're the type
of person to help people. But you got a lot
on your plate right now, and just it's out of
your hands. This penny Wise fault, it's not your fault.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
That's all exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
We'll continue covering episode four of it. Welcome to Eric,
and we're back the Major. Leroy confronts his wife Charli
(22:00):
about the Hank Grogan situation. Why are you getting involved?
Here we go again with this whole rock in the
boat thing. It's like, I don't give a shit, I'm
gonna help him. Okay, Yeah, I'm also like, Major, what's
wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
She's literally doing like the only good vibe, Like this
is such a good thing to do. Give me a break.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
He's an innocent man, like, you know what this is.
And LeRoy's like, listen, okay, there's some actual, like top
secret and this is not an excuse, honey, but there's
some real top secret shit that I think involves ghosts
and red balloons. And he doesn't say that, but he's like,
he is dead. Is like, very very serious ghostshit is
(22:40):
compacting the family.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
But I can't tell.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
You, Hella, because like she knows and she believes Will
class like they both not communication.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, it's very spy X family.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
It's very good. And he's like, okay, so you know,
it's real serious, top secret shit, okay, and what you're
doing could mess it up in a way that's bad.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
He doesn't explain anything.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Charlotte agrees in a way where you believe that she's
gonna keep doing what she's doing anyway, Like.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
She's just like, yeah, okay, you got it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Will is in bed. He has a brief nightmare of
the fishing trip and he can't sleep, so he gets up.
He decides to look through the telescope, and when he's
looking through the telescope, he looks down at the street,
just kind of watching a guy walk his dog. And
he sees a catches a glimpse of a scary clown
watching him, very scary image.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
He's screaming.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Dad comes in. He tells Dad there's a scary fucking
clown out.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
There in the street.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Dad runs out with a golf club, like.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Hey, he actually thinks that it's a spying It's like
a counterintelligence situation at something to do with the base.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Leeboy's always so worried about Charlotte, like messing, like making a.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Scene or messing things up.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
But Tree has no fear and he's just running out
into the street with this golf club. I'm like, please
have some fear for yourself, Like, have some worry for yourself, please.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yes. So he's screaming in the street with the golf club.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
But then he looks up in a tree he's a
red balloon and he's like, oh shit, it's happening. He
goes to see the General. He's like, what the fuck
are we doing? Like what's what the fuck is why?
Speaker 7 (24:20):
What's not?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
In General is like you know what, it's time you
see what we do here. So he takes Leroy to
come see the interrogation of Taniel, the Native American kid
who they caught peeking through the fence, and he's like, listen,
Taniel knows the location is this thing we're looking for. Okay,
(24:41):
and the Russians and the Cubans, all that shit is happening,
Like we're on the clock here. We need the weapon.
You gotta go into his mind and find out where
the fuck it is. Uh, okay, you know, excuse me.
He's saying, we're going to go into his mind. Dick
is going to go into his mind, Leroy, and he's
going to find out, like where the thing is. That's
(25:01):
what we're doing. So Dick puts the shining on Taniel,
and she finds himself in the space of like many
many doors. He opens the door, he goes into it
and he sees a memory.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
It Rose.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Telling Taniel an actual thing that happened like when Taniel
was young, that hey, the legend of penny Wise.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
That they don't call it Pennywise, but.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
He's like, the legend, that legend of the evil spirit
is real. Tell me about the story so I know
that you remember it. And then Daniel recounts the story
so we can all learn it.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, so penny Wise, it the alien crashed on Earth,
and he's basically been trapped there for a million years, correct, Jason,
We were right, millions only been three hundred and twenty
six years. But it was their ancestor who carved a
weapon from Pennywise's comet to use against it, and that
(25:58):
was how they beat him and ended up trapping him.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Then the Whites came.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
They did not heed the warnings of the glue, and
many were killed.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
The clan mothers got together.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
And sent an expedition to get more comet stone to
use as weapons against Pennyways smart plan, but the young
party went missing. When rescuers were sent, they were taken
two attacked by visions of what they most feared.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
The tribe's greatest warriors killed.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Eventually the warrior's daughter went to the cave where the
comet lay. They did end up making more weapons, and these,
I feel like are going to become a really big
part of this. So the season we can expect, I think,
for the kids to maybe get their hands on some
of these and came up with a plan to trap it.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Now this is why the government is here.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
We were right.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
This was it now, I have to say, though I
did not realize it was gonna be so.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Literal and I'm very interested. So how did they do it?
How did they trap the mystery monster? They trapped him
in pillars of its own comet. This is very kryptonite.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
I'm vibing on it. You know, it's greatest weakness is
its own this thing from its own planet, you know,
which I'm assuming there will argue is because he was
in a meteorites. Maybe he was trapped in there to
get him away from the planet. But anyway, Rose is like, yep,
you're right, Daniel, and then Dick appears and he says,
(27:19):
where are the pillars? Daniel opens the door to show
Dick where they are and close up.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Of dont don't house from the movie and that is
the end of it. Welcome to Davery Episode four.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Let's take a quick break and we'll be back with
the screen queens to discuss episode four.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Hey, welcome here.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Anywhere back?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Want to show Joel and Carmen welcome.
Speaker 8 (28:08):
I think that dairy dementia off that off the perks.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, before we dive into the discussion, your your you know,
headline thoughts on this episode, Carmen.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
Really fun episode. The scares in this episode are like evolving,
I think into something even like bigger. I think that
might take away from this episode, like, Wow, it really
is like getting kind of junge Eto style scares in
this episode, which I really enjoyed. I'm also continuing to
love how we are getting more of Dick Halloran's backstory.
(28:44):
And also I'm loving how we're getting more of the
shining and how we're seeing the shining and action a
lot more sh Yeah, that is the connective tissue between
all of the Stephen King you know, I p you know,
so it's cool to see more of that. It reminds
me too of you know, another movie that.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Is good.
Speaker 8 (29:06):
Time to go back and watch Doctor Sleep.
Speaker 7 (29:08):
You know, so m great film.
Speaker 8 (29:11):
Yeah it, loving it, Loving it, Joelle, I'm.
Speaker 9 (29:16):
About to get in my black person bag about this episode.
I have many thoughts. I am thrilled at what Court
Jefferson is doing and Jovanna Duffo and Taylor Page the
hottest couple of the year by the way, Yeah sorry.
Speaker 7 (29:30):
Sinners, but we've we found him.
Speaker 9 (29:33):
Uh just iconic performances out of them, and I really
love it.
Speaker 7 (29:38):
Yes to the jungi Eto scared really freaking gross.
Speaker 9 (29:41):
Yeah, and then I'm curious about how we're stretching the
lore and if we're doing it in the best ways,
where is it working?
Speaker 7 (29:49):
Where is it not working. I'm excited to discuss with
you guys.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Okay, well let's discuss it.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Let's just get into it then, because I have I
also have some thoughts regarding the extended a flashback of
you know, Rosentaniel's ancestors conversation. Yeah, last yes, whether it
wasn't working for you, Jason, it's not that it wasn't
It's not that it wasn't working. I have no particular
qualms about the way all of our characters are depicted
(30:21):
in this show, and I just wanted to kind of
point out, and it's a it's a hard point to
get it. It's a weird point to get into. But
I guess while I agree that like our characters are
depicted in positive ways, in ways that like, you know,
(30:42):
show them in a fleshed out way, not the negative
kind of stereotypical tropes about you know, indigenous people, Native Americans,
it is also like heavily relying on tropes, but it's
the ones we like, right, Like it's and I just
am left one more because to me, It's like when
(31:02):
you don't when you show a particular community in ways
that they are always shown running around in the hood
in the woods, hunting evil spirits that they understand and
we don't because of their connection to nature, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera, you're kind of like robbing us
(31:23):
of an opportunity to like just connect with that culture
on a human level. That's why I'm like, you know,
what are they Like, what do they talk about when
they're like sitting and eating dinner.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
I was gonna say, I want to see more of
Tanio and his friends, Like what do they do when
then not hunting?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
It like do they time together?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
And so you know, So it's not a negative. It's again,
it's not. I'm it's just I would love I would
love to be for it to be expanded and for
there to be more because I do feel while you know,
we rightfully so have criticized Stephen for some of his
depictions of Native Americans that lean heavily on hey I
(32:06):
saw this in a movie.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah exactly, you know what.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I read this that this happens, this, this.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Show, which is depicting its characters in a positive light,
is also doing that. It's just that we like it,
that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 9 (32:19):
We have got to find I'm searching for indigenous journalists
who can sort of speak to the like a critical
way about the show. I do wonder I agree with
you that there's not enough balance. That's just a hard stop,
like there's not enough there's a variety that we, you know,
that we're getting out of, like let's say our black family,
Like we're seeing all kinds of areas of the black
communities and all that.
Speaker 7 (32:40):
But I also wonder.
Speaker 9 (32:41):
If in the same way when people are like, uh,
we can always se black people says, should't always set
them as slaves, but like we were enslaved at one
point as the important part of our culture in our
history in America, and seeing those stories, I don't feel
personally diminishes us. And so I just wonder if if
there is an element of story that, like it is
at all resonant to the end of just community possibly
(33:05):
not open to it.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I mean, I'm yeah, I think that's that would be
a really cool conversation to have. I think just from
my perspective, it's like you see another tribal gathering where
the you know, the the elders are discussing what to do,
and it's like, I feel like I've seen the scene
a million times, and whenever I want to see like
white people making a decision, it doesn't happen.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Like at the halls of Congress.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Oh, like all the congressmen get together to discuss, like
what decision some white people are gonna do? It's right,
you know, like it's never on a human to human level.
Two characters who are from a place just discussing like
what's going on in a not.
Speaker 8 (33:45):
A dinner table.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
I would even say, but I would even say, like
I think something for example that would that would help
even if they want to do it in the space
of having the res there and being able to show
all different kinds of people and have it at the
meeting you it would be good if like the first
part was just about you know, like the electricity bills
going up because of a day SNR or something that
wasn't directly connected to it.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I think that would also help.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
But at the moment, everything we're getting from them is
just about their connection.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
To and get I get that this is a nitpicky,
a little bit of a nitpicky it's just like I
don't feel like I've seen versions of that entire flashback
a million times, like the good and the bad version,
and I'm just left. This is kind of like why
(34:35):
I love res Dogs so much, because it's like it
was not that it was life, just like the lives
of people who live in a place and you get
to know them on a human level, and you get
to see the ways that like, oh we talk about
I talk about that kind of thing too, or that's
how like we have the same kind of conversations but
(34:57):
on different topics. It was like that it robs us
of our ability to like latch on to this culture
and kind of like understand it. Instead, it's so mythologized
and like heightened in this legendary mythic way that it
feels like.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I think it's hard to connect to it.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
You know, res Dogs did a good job as well
of bringing in the stuff that was very much about
like how they interacted with their own ideas of folklore
and mythology.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
And you did get those elements, but it was about
that center, but in.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
A way that it intersected with their normal life and
conversation and and and I'm just feeling like I want
that from.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Some of this thing. I just I totally agree.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
I will also just say there was some there was
some quite deep criics, especially of the first season of
res Dogs, for not doing a great job with like
blackness and anti blackness in the show. So I would
say that oftentimes I think, like with within a studio system,
if there's a focus on one set of characters, this
kind of just happened. Well.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
At the same time, that doesn't mean we shouldn't aim
for more. And I love what they're doing and.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Taniel, but I agree for this show to go truly
like elevate this Stephen King use of Indian burial grounds
Native American burial grounds for a trope, then they need
to start doing something that imagines what life is like
for them outside of the trope.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
So fingers crossed, I would love like a.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Rose Bottle episode that's more just about her throughout her life.
But yeah, how are you guys feeling about that aspect?
And also about how this episode we're starting to really
see these storylines come together with Leroy seeing what's going on,
knowing what's going on with Taniel and Dick and everything,
(36:46):
Like Joelle, how are you feeling all the threads are
coming together at this point?
Speaker 7 (36:52):
Beautifully?
Speaker 9 (36:54):
We were talking before we got on mic about how
much less as though we were right episode.
Speaker 7 (37:00):
Right, we called out.
Speaker 9 (37:01):
That Marge's eyes were doing funky things in episode two,
we saw that it glowed in her eyes, and then
here we are cutting out it from her eyes.
Speaker 7 (37:11):
You know, we had mentioned briefly the element of fear.
Speaker 9 (37:18):
In our major and I really think.
Speaker 7 (37:22):
That that's come full circle.
Speaker 9 (37:23):
And I think what's most interesting about this episode for
me is the dynamic between Leroy and Charlotte. I am
compelled endlessly by this dichotomy. And it's something we've seen done.
I mean, you can all it back to a raisin
in the sun, like black family, different sides of how
to attack the problem of injustice.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Da da da da.
Speaker 9 (37:45):
But I think what Cord has done so well here
and what maybe is not often done, is like he
similar to what he did in episode six of Watchmen. Yeah,
he puts black people in positions of assumed power, showcases
how that's not really any kind of power, and then
(38:06):
sort of attacks it from a community perspective. And you know,
I was thinking too, I was like, oh, I wonder
when Maryland integrated their schools. Maryland starts the integration process
in nineteen fifty four, but it's not until nineteen seventy
three that all counties are integrated. So if you could
this idea what's happening in Maryland at this time, Matt
(38:28):
and so so, then in addition to the dynamics between
the parents, you have Will, who his whole life has
lived essentially under a national goal to integrate schools. He
was in the South, so probably not getting much there.
We know they can come later becomes of Maryland. Is
(38:48):
this his first time in an integrated school?
Speaker 7 (38:50):
I'm not sure. It doesn't quite feel like it.
Speaker 9 (38:52):
It does feel like this school has only been integrated
for a short period of time. And I think this
sort of highlights what Jason was saying earlier about like
what's life like Fordigitou communities in this area at this time?
I feel like I know so much about what black
life is like in this area at this time, just
through the show's lens, because it leads you to ask
all of these questions. And I love the idea of fear.
(39:14):
So getting back to fear, Okay LeRoy's fear, I think
two things one, it's possible to the army just straight up
lied and they were like, Bye, people don't experience fear
at the same tight.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I totally thought that could be because they the way
that they describe it is that like he's just able
to be analytical when he hasn't gone to his head,
And it's like.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
That just sounds like maybe like he's on the.
Speaker 9 (39:39):
Jick says, you don't experience fear in the same way
that I.
Speaker 7 (39:43):
Say experience fear.
Speaker 9 (39:45):
So I think that this is a really interesting commentary
on black masculinity and this idea of like and and
so not black masculinity and the idea of respectability politics, and.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
Really like teasing that out right.
Speaker 9 (40:01):
So Lee Ray is the guy who's like, if I
follow the rules, if my wife follows the rules, if
my son is good in school and like sports, then
we can all come together and be the quintessential American family.
Be safe, be happy. My wife is messing this up.
She's like, I'm trying to fulfill your dream by doing
the dirty work that you just don't want.
Speaker 7 (40:19):
To look at. That's fascinating.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
Will's out here living the life, and I.
Speaker 9 (40:23):
Think when we see his fear triggered. It's always around Will.
I don't think if the army's telling the truth, I
don't think the fear lives in his head. I don't
think it's fear for himself. I think he only has
fear and his kid's future. And I think that is
such a fucking beautiful way to explore the world of
it that we haven't had before, because most parents are
trash and awful in this series, and so to get
(40:44):
two parents who care in totally different ways, who's ways
of caring clash with each other, but they have clearly
so much love for each other and so much love
for their kid, and then doing it in Maryland, where
integration is really I mean, like we could even look
this is the last thing I'll say, but we can
look at this scene where Charlotte goes to the police
office and they're like, we're not the South, while dropping
(41:05):
like an atomic bomb's worth of microaggressions on her to
be like, you don't know what you're talking about. I
don't have to address you, lady, not calling her by
her name, not you never speak to a white woman
this way with your back turn and continuing your work, never,
especially this time week. No no, and so I think
this show has done such a beautiful job of sort
(41:27):
of exploring black culture. And they've I mean, they've credited
Chord quite a lot, not to take anything away from
each individual writer for these episodes, but they said like
they brought Chord in specifically to work on the dynamics
of this family, and I'm so excited. I'm really guys,
everyone cross your fingers. I'm trying to get him for
episode six.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yeah, the sense of the father episode do we feel about.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
When they I feel complex when when a production signals
that it's because it's On the one hand, I love
the acknowledgment of we need some we need to do
this right, we need to have that life experience and
we don't heaven Sweeney Tea. I also feel like there's
a cynical version that I've seen a lot where it's
like it's all that person's fault.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Of course it is.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
I do think that oftentimes when you take on that responsibility,
it is so that the studio can go, well, we
had one person.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
If you don't like it, they approved everything that we did.
But I also do think that Cord is.
Speaker 9 (42:19):
I think this is the great this it Yes, agree
the best possible outcome, the best possible even.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
If there isn't exact who feels like that, that's fine
because Coord's gonna do his thing. Yeah, Court, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
But I totally, I totally understand. I would also say
as well, just to jump off what you were saying, Joelle,
I was looking up some stuff. I find that the
inclusion of Julia Juniper Hill really interesting as just kind
of such a major plot point and Maryland at the
same time still had segregated institutions. It also was had
(42:50):
a lot of institutions that ran from the seven late
like seventeen hundreds where they were putting women and children
all the time. So I just think there is a
level of history here that they are delving into about
American history that is more.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Than surface level. And that's me is a big appeal.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
It's giving so much more than it needed to, which
I like respect, like there is on the.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Quote, there is a giving more than it needed to.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
There's a portion of this show that that just goes
very surface level with all of the societal and racial dynamics,
and we kind of shrug and go, okay, it's it,
you know whatever.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
But credit to the show for not doing that.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, for and for accepting a very kind of quietly
radical good version of of this into a show that's
this mainstream.
Speaker 4 (43:46):
Is kind of great that they Okay, guys, before we
jump off, because I just I love talking about the show.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
What do you think I'll we kind.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Of talked about the sling shot.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
No need to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
We have to Is the slingshot doing too much?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Okay?
Speaker 9 (44:03):
First of all, first of all, I'm gonna I'm going
about it back to you briefly, Jason explain what the
slingshot means in the original text.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
In the original text, is it Bill.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Has a slingshot that also can kill monsters, And it's
this representation of, like I think it's meant to be about,
like youth and innocence, and it's their version of like
the Freddy Krueger you don't exist. Is like this toy
that a kid can use can defeat a monster.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
That's how I read it when I was young.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
I do feel like at this point we've seen that
slingshot do a lot.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Is it the same slingshot?
Speaker 1 (44:42):
That's why I want to slingshot, right, I thought? See
now my reading of this slingshot was that because Rose
head shot it with it, there is now a connection
between the.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
And the item.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
It's not like some kind of myster embodiment of like
the innocence of childhood that can like the garlic or
the silver bullet that can hurt it. It's just like
you hit the demon with this thing and it's got
demon juice.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
In that case, is I would say in that case,
because that's a really great read. And in that case,
I would say that it probably is the same slingshot
that they will reveal goes to Bill somehow. Now, as
Chris Hayna, someone I've been on many fun set visits
with and who is generally just a great writer who
wrote a polygon, is like, does Bill unknowingly find the
(45:33):
magical slingshot at thrift store or is welcome to dairy
making the leap that slingshots in general often at all
by children. He's on the same page as me, are
especially dangerous against him once that feeds on kids, because
as he points out, there's no link like the general
isn't in the original books.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
That's a new character.
Speaker 9 (45:52):
Through like the mother's side of the family. I mean,
Chris mentions that earlier in the article.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
I would also say Rose like it just ends up
in her shop, and she the family make sure that
the sling shot always ends up with kids who are
in the town.
Speaker 9 (46:05):
I love this secret adults who don't remember but are
constantly setting kids up for success. Yeah, and that I
think it seems to be all adults against all children,
like if there's a I sort of enjoyed this idea
of because I think too, if you think about a
small town, I grew up in a very small town. Uh,
there are radical.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
Adults sprinkled throughout who like just give you the tools.
Speaker 7 (46:24):
To not just survive, but like get out if you
want to.
Speaker 9 (46:27):
And I would be curious to see how that play
out in a Stephen King type universe.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
I think that could be a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
It makes sense too, because, like you said, we already
establishing the fact that.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
There is.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
No adults who seemingly remember this in any definite way.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Or can I ask you to I only think, oh, no,
go ahead, no, no, let's talk. Well, I just wanted
to ask, I guess what do we think the general's
actual plan? Or it is like they're going to put
them in the comment and drop them on.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Moscow or something.
Speaker 5 (47:08):
What's I do think the Annual Plan.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
I do think that for some reason he thinks that
they need to be in charge of it because it
will give them some kind of technology fear weapons, fear weapons,
which I'm just like, guys, haven't you lumped by this point?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Like this is the eerr of like MK ultra, like.
Speaker 8 (47:29):
Guys weaponing people off handedly in one of the episodes
about the men Whoster at Goats program or something.
Speaker 4 (47:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, Like it's acknowledging that this is America's
occult exploration.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
I will say what's interesting about MK ultra and the
whole Not to get too far on.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Aside, but part of this was spurred on by.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Powc came back from North Korea in the Korean War,
who appeared to have been broken in some kind of
mind control way. That led the US government to be like,
we've got a mind control gap. We need to get
up with the we need to beat the Soviets and
the Communists in mind control technology, believing that the Communists
(48:12):
had somehow broken the code on how to like create
sleeper cells, break people's minds, et cetera, which led to
so it is a fascinating. It is that whole trip
is very fascinating. This makes sense that this would they
would be trying to do this.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Agreed.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
What if you guys each going forward from now to
the end of the season, what is the character that
you're most excited to see that journey from here on out?
Speaker 8 (48:39):
I think it's got to be for me. I am
most curious about what Rose is doing and what her
plan for the community is, because she seems to be
like kind of a maternal character. But I'm telling you,
if they don't, if that atomic bomb doesn't happen by
the end of the season, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
I will say Carmen Rose is so unconcerned. There must
be something else that she has in mind, or that
that's what I'm she has going because she is not
at all obviously it's concerning that the military is digging
(49:24):
around looking for it, right.
Speaker 5 (49:26):
She also doesn't seem like that pressed.
Speaker 9 (49:28):
She really doesn't so like bringing in other people, real
calm demeanor about everything. She must have backup plans on
backup plans, like I think she's like prepared, like these
white people are crazy, and I'm gonna stay prepared so
I don't be surprised, and I respect the ship out
of prass for that. Uh, I am just okay. Two,
(49:49):
it's it's Charlotte for sure. I need she. She's such
an interesting and unique character, Like her energy is so distinct,
like that not being able, it's still the sort of
like coin is she plays with her husband where he
was like, don't over trouble, She's like, you don't even
have to worry about me, don't even Yeah, I'm just thinking,
would you even.
Speaker 7 (50:08):
Think about that?
Speaker 9 (50:10):
She is just so like I'm just gonna do whatever
I feel is right in this moment. I love that
in a woman, and I feel like most women are
like that, and I feel like most women aren't represented
like that.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 9 (50:20):
I love Charlotte. And then, oh, there's one other thing
I've talked about. Baby Will is my other one who's
no longer a baby.
Speaker 5 (50:27):
Guys, one of this.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Age show is crazy.
Speaker 5 (50:32):
These kids are suddenly so much older.
Speaker 9 (50:36):
This shot through both of the strikes, and so there
was a lot of stoppage and restarting, and so suddenly
the kids are two years older. And it's a little wild.
But I feel like the show doesn't they play it
off well enough that it doesn't bother even you're he's sway.
Speaker 7 (50:51):
He's grown like four full inches.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
I was looking through the telescope and I saw a
scared clo scared right now.
Speaker 5 (51:01):
In the fifth grade.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
But I will say, Will, I'm glad you brought him
up because I love Will, and I'm specifically I'm very
excited to see how Charlotte Will and LeRoy's relationship. I
feel like that could be an ultimate kind of the
tip of the IT fighting triangle.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Is that family.
Speaker 4 (51:21):
And I'm really excited to see how they bring in
everyone else because also Charlotte's clearly like a found family
type mom.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
She's gonna look at anyone like.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
I'm going to take a hard left turn on who
I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
You're gonna say, what.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Do you think I'm gonna say anyway? No, no, no, no, no, okay.
I want to see Marge, what's up now?
Speaker 3 (51:43):
What's up?
Speaker 8 (51:43):
Now?
Speaker 2 (51:44):
What happened? What Marge? What happened? What up?
Speaker 1 (51:50):
I can't wait to see how badly or not your
eye stalks are cut. Don't listen things that go on
in high school ut to school like it's in a sense,
it's all okay because you can move on and it
doesn't matter, but hopefully you'll you know, you're the type
of person who processes all the bad things you did
(52:12):
in high school and go, Okay, that was terrible.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
I'm not going to do that again. I learned to
not do that. But come on, that was.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
You know, you did your girl so fucking dirty, and
I don't care that you had to change your heart
at the last second and that Pennywise kept you from
like you still put the thing in motion, and the
way the switch up when she's like when Lily's not
looking at her and she's like feeling, oh my gosh,
should I do this? And then Lily looks at her
and she turns it on all of a sudden, She's like,
(52:41):
I miss you so much, like when are we gonna?
It's like, you're so it's so chay, I don't care
you feel bad Tilda Lawlor though, because she's crushing performance.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
We all knew that girl again.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
A brash side of womanhood that you don't really get
to see, which is like the nerdy girl who gets
in with the popular girl. You see real life, but
we haven't necessarily seen it on screen represented in this way.
It's usually a mean girls type thing, a kind of
like played for jokes.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
This is very interesting to see a girl.
Speaker 9 (53:18):
Turned sort of version where now she's and now she's just.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
Now they're gonna obviously reject her because of this, or
they could turn her into another classic kind of American trope,
which is like she's like their pet because she's disabled.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
And aren't they so nice but all sticking with her.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
But Mike got says on a storytelling level, exactly, like,
on a storytelling level, I would say that we're probably
gonna see margin Lily now come together.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Marge will cover for Lily.
Speaker 4 (53:50):
Say that Marge, Yeah, because they have to bring Marge
back into the crew.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
It was always gonna happen. Is she gonna the.
Speaker 7 (53:56):
Third trip to the sanatorium for poor Lily?
Speaker 5 (53:59):
Like I feel like she get out of that.
Speaker 9 (54:02):
I don't think she could do a third trip, first
of all, and I don't think the show can sustain
a third trip at this point.
Speaker 7 (54:07):
It's too soon. So you might be right about that.
Speaker 9 (54:09):
I just think, like, yeah, Marge's thorist because your friend
lost her father in a horrific accident, institutionalized twice by
your side while you were getting the dog shit bullied
out of you and then you portray her.
Speaker 5 (54:22):
Yeah, Marge, you have to work for this forgiveness.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Yeah you got back. I deserve to get snail eyed plenty.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Wise, I did enjoy it for a for a brief
for one second second, I was like, well, you played
around and look what happened, and friend who you don't
deserve is out here trying to stop you from cutting
your snail eyes out. And let me tell you when
it's all said and done, when when when we come
(54:56):
back next episode, you better be like that she didn't
she was trying to help me, because if I'll tell
you what if Marge is like, yeah, maybe she was
trying to kill me, And that was like, you know,
like that makes sense the vision that I saw that
seems so real, like maybe I was just losing it
and it was just Lily's craziness infecting me when actually
she was like harming me. If that's where you go, March,
(55:19):
well that's wroth. I will turn my back on you.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
Time your back on much no forgiveness.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
On the next episode of X Ray Vision, we're getting
ready for the final season of Stranger Things with a
recap up season four. That's it for this episode.
Speaker 3 (55:32):
THANXT for listening.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
Bye Hey by.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie
Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 4 (55:43):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 4 (55:49):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fey Wack.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (55:58):
Special thanks to Saul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi Our discord moderator
Speaker 8 (56:06):
H m hmm
Warning, today's episode contains spoilers for episode four of IT.
Welcome to Derry on HBO B one. Hello, my name
(00:23):
is Jason Concepcion and I'm Rosey Night and welcome back
to x Ray Vision of podcast, where we dive the
your favorite shows, movies, comics, and.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Pop culture comedy from my heart.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
We'll bring you three episodes plus.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
In today's episode, it's Andy and Barbara Musghetti again and
they are returning to Derry with their new group of kids.
They're traumatizing years prior to the events of the movie.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
But guys, guys, we're getting closer. We're getting closer to
understanding the mystery.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
And as usual, Jason and I will be recapping the
episode together and then we will be bringing in the
Scream Queen's super producers Common.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
And Joel to join us and discuss.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Okay it Episode four, Welcome to Derry, the Great Swirling
Apparatus of Our Planet's Function. Episode written by Helen Shang.
We open fresh after the Graveyard mission. The kids ride
over to the police station with the photos and they're
(01:24):
telling the police chief like everything happened, and they're like, yeah,
it was we did the Santa Ria thing, and we
went there and it was really crazy and check out
these photos. You're gonna be blown away. And the chief
is like, holy shit, and then we see what he
sees and it's just kind of like the ghosts aren't there.
They disappeared, I guess from the negatives. So even though
(01:47):
they were there, when they were they just delusion?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Were they just illusions?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Did they disappear from the photo because of some magic unclear?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
But then they're like, well what about this one? And
they did manage to keep the image of Pennywise in
that very dark and blurry photo from inside the crypt
that Will took.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
But she was like, I don't even that doesn't even
look like anything.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
You guys, You guys are nuts. And by the way,
keep doing this shit, Lily.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
You're going back to.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Hill kids in a house. What about the rest of them?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Just like anyway, but Lily, Lily's got that rep so
she might end up back into the Juniper Hill nuthouse.
And that's pretty scary. The kids talk it over at
school in the gym and they're like, maybe it's like
a Dracula thing, you know, like where the image doesn't
show up, you know, that kind of type of thing.
Ronnie's like, why don't you ask your mom, who's lived
(02:46):
in town her whole life, if she recalls, like any
weird stuff from when she was a kid, Like were
there visions or demons or disappearances, anything weird like that
clown specters, you know that kind of thing. Lily's like,
you know, my mom is not the best person, asks
but I know somebody. So she goes and asks Madeline Stowe,
who they never to my recollection, they have not yet
(03:08):
mentioned her name in this show, but this show, right,
but she's listed as Ingrid on IMDb, and there is
fervent speculation in the It Stephen King It movie communities
that she is the old woman from IT one who yeah,
Ingrid KSh.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Yes, the door who is believed to be the door
of Bob Gray's Penny Wise, that's right, and who runs
naked through the house in it too.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
She runs naked through the house and Ingrid, if that's
her name, does dimly recall something like back in the
thirties and the depression era, kids were going missing, but
it was not there was no spectral clowns earning like
that involved, and clearly like she's the mom that Lily
always wanted, and they're really bonding, and she grabs Ingrid
(03:56):
grabs Lily's hand and says, but it sounds like you've
got great friends, and with your friends, you know behind you,
you guys are gonna beat anything that comes out. Okay,
I'm sure you guys are going to succeed.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Is this because ever since Ingrid was a little kid
and she was the door of Bob Gray and then
Pennywise took over Bob Gray's pace, she's.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Been putting together these teams of kids and doesn't remember.
And she doesn't remember try.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
I don't know, because she's like, she's like, you know,
as long as you've got your good friends, and we
know it's usually like kids, So maybe she doesn't remember.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I thought that too, but she seemed very sincere about
not knowing what Lily was talking about.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Yeah, that the cycle makes people act in weird ways,
So it might.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Be that the that the dairy dementia is just hitting
her where she's done this.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
You know, she's put these teams.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Together that would make a lot of sense compared to
what we see in the fire right too.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And some kind of like essential goodness combined with her
past experiences that she doesn't remember, keeps her in this
cycle of like putting together anti very interesting.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I would like that perhaps Charlotte is at home reading
the news about Hatchet Hank's arrest, and she's obviously extremely
upset about it because we all know it's a big injustice.
There's a knock at the door and it's Rose dropping
off whatever it was that Charlotte bought at the store.
Charlotte invites Rose into coffee, and this scene basically marks like,
obviously a new team up that we're gonna get and
(05:24):
I love to see it.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Rose explains that her.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
People used to roam around the lands around Demi Derry
up to Nova Scotia. Rose obviously is digging politely for
information about the pipeline. Charlotte says, hey, the major doesn't
talk about work, national security and all of that, but
Charlotte wants to know something herself. She wants to know
about the theater event, the missing kids. Do I need
to be concerned about will? She asked, like, is this
(05:47):
something really worrying? And Rose is like, yeah, freaky shit
happens here.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Here's my number.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
She's like very great.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
She's like, yeah, you're right, it's terrible. It's bad. Kids
are gonna go missing. She's like, but here's my number,
and I want to see the two of these guys
team up. And how what a concerning answer.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I was watching this episode. Christina is peaking over my shoulder.
She's like, that's exactly like what your grandma said when
you asked her if exor systems were real.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
I'm like, that was like the same. She was like,
what a worrying answer.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
She's like, yeah, that's happens. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Dick and the airmen get to check out their new
clubhouse and it's like a kind of supply shed that
might be either on the very outskirts of the base
or just beyond the base on a wooded road somewhere,
and the guys are talking about turning you know. It's
like filled with you know, boxes and different shit. And
the guys are like, well, we can put a bar here,
and we can put a little kitchen here, and we
(06:43):
can turn it into nightclub.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Is the dance floor here?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
All great ideas, but Dick, there's a there's a moment
where Dick kind of looks around in a way that
makes you feel like he's sensing some vibes to this area.
At school, Lily is watching, you know, one of the
it was early sixties duck and cover presentations that argued like,
if you just get under your desk, you'll be fine
(07:06):
when a nuke goes off.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
But she's lost trick kids into being relaxed while they die.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Right, I'm behaving, but she's she's kind of lost in
thought with all the stuff going on, and she happens
to catch Marge's eye from she sees Marge looking at her.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
From a cross room and they share this kind of
longing glance.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Will arrives at home and he goes immediately to his
dresser drawer in the back of the bottom dresser drawer
where kids hide everything to go look for the packet
of photos. But I guess to look at them again
and really study them, I guess. But Charlotte has them
and she's like, what's this, Ah, like, what you've been doing?
(07:44):
And Will is like, we've been hanging on the graveyard
and trying.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
To take pictures and sorry.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Charlotte's like, don't do that anymore. And we're not going
to tell your dad about this, but you're basically grounded.
Come home directly from school, don't hang out with your friends,
and it's not because you're in trouble. It's just because
the nice native lady in town told me that there's weird.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So I'm listening, and.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
We're not going to tell your dad, but just and
that means that.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
The next awkward dinner scene is directly connected to those actions.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Dinner at the handleans dad asked about school. Will tries
to say as little.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
As possible, but Charlotte saves him by revealing he has
a crossround a girl. Charlotte tells the major about the girl,
and yes, she is black. Of course it's Ronnie the Icon.
Charlotte wants the major to go spend some time with Will,
so he takes Will fly fishing.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Will is antsy. He's stressed.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
He's trying to keep the fact that he's grounded and
being chased by an evil clown named Pennywise. So when
his dad asks about the girl, Will kind of lose
his AND's up and they catch a fish and he's
reeling it in and this is a fantastic father son moment,
but oh the fish escapes and suddenly Will is alone
(09:07):
on the river as his dad goes to get somebody I.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Know, like worms, who puts the tackle box in the car?
Why in the boat?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Or it should be at the shoreline at the very least.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Whatever come so, but obviously maybe derry dementia made him
do that.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah yeah, so you know.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
So the scene as soon as his father is gone,
it turns ominous.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And this is something I love about this season. They've
done such a good job playing.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
With what may always made it so scary, which is
what's bubbling under the suburban perfectness of Dairy or wherever
else you are, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And a fish, a.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
Huge fish, swims up to him and looks up at him,
and as Will connects eyes and he's like, what the
fuck's going on, a scary demon version of his dad
jumps up Jason.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Vohe's style and pulls him into water, splashing down. The
Major runs back and Will is like, bro, that was
definitely a burned up version of you who just jumped
out there like I thought it was bad And luckily
for Will, you know, Finally the Major sees bruises on
his wrist, yes, and knows that something crazy has actually happened.
(10:18):
It's getting into Freddy Krueger territory. Now the things from
the dreams can hurt you. That makes it much more
easy for Major Handan to believe it. And if you
need a double confirmation, sir. They look back and they
see a red balloon floating in the water in the river,
and obviously Major Handlan sees it too.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Charlotte goes to the police station and she's like, listen,
the the kids are telling the truth. Something crazy happened,
and certainly hatchet Hank was not involved in this disappearance.
And Chief Bowers is not doesn't care, he's not listening
to this. And Charlotte is like, well, has he talked
to a lawyer? And the Chief says, yeah, man, this
(10:59):
is not Mississippi, like we let our imprisoned suspects talk
to their representation. And Charlotte's like, well, I want to
talk to him, and the chief says, well, listen, you're
not the family of the lawyers, so you can't.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
You can't go in there.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Charlotte flips through the phone book and finds the Grogan's number,
goes over there and listens to Granny Grogan basically talk
about what's going on with Hank, and she doesn't believe
that he did this, and Charlotte's like, listen, I've got
experience working with the movement in the South. Okay, I
understand how to use the press, how to use the media,
how to kind of work the levers of the legal system.
(11:36):
Let me help Ronnie listens in the doorwaywhile in the
hallway meanwhile, and then we get a cleaning montage. We
see the airmen fix it. Our first montage, I believe
of the show, does we see that?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I feel like it's not a show that heavily uses montage.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
This is no Baywatch, this is not every episode when
one comes it hits.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And the clubhouses looking in really nice. Right, It's you
could see it all coming together. There's gonna be a
great spot. Dick goes to take some of the trash
out and boom, he's hit by that shining and it's
his shinning.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
It's it's the shinning.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
He went out and he took a shin and he
sees his grandmother in the woods and she basically warns
him be careful, don't let whatever evil is brewing escape
from where it is. Keep it trapped where it is,
don't mess around with this. And I think it was
(12:35):
his I think it was his grandmother contacting him through
the shining to tell him like, hey, be careful because
you're messing now with something that is really really dangerous.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yeah, And just at that moment, Major Hanlan pulls up
Leroy and he kind of shakes Dick from the vision
and he's like, hey, what's going on? What as the
General said, what is the point of this? And it's
very interesting because he's just have this vision kind of
telling basically by somebody that he loves telling him, Hey,
this isn't what you're doing is wrong, don't do it.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So this could be an ally.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Ship with lee Roy, but I think at the moment,
you know, he keeps it on the d loo as always,
but he's also like, hey, the General gave us this
clubhouse and I'm not about to go, you know, making
him mad. So now lee Very says to Dick, hey,
my son, he saw a gold version then, like an
evil version of me pulled him into the river and
like it was really crazy and is this something to
(13:32):
do with it? And Dick poker face fails and Lee
Roy knows he's onto something and yes, Dick is like,
I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I just do what I'm told. You know, sure.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Back at the kids' clubhouse, lots of clubhouse action today,
a big clubhouse, big clubhouse episode, big episode of clubhouses.
Will tells his pals about the fishing vision and he's like, well,
I got bruises, so surely it could kill us at
any time. Why doesn't it do that? And the kids
they kind of realized, like the kids who disappeared or
said that they'd seen we stuff that now they know
(14:06):
obviously is true. Will comes up with a theory the
thing loves human meat spiced with fear. Lily's like, well,
what if we can't not be Like, what if we
cannot be scared?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And then Lily's like, here's some pills.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, play play the play pot future beautiful.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Okay, I'll just do it over there.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Molly Percoset, Lily Ronnie Percoset, Molly Percoset, Will Richie Percoset.
I love that this is the idea. It's such a kid,
It's so bad. This is a terrible fucking idea. And
and you'd think that the genius Will, who has a
advanced for a kid grasp of chemistry and science, would
be like, oh, I'm not sure that that's what the
(14:52):
pill does let's really yeah, right if it does that,
But there's it's such an absolute idea that a kid
would come up with. My mom said, this makes her
not afraid of anything and makes all the fears and
anxieties go away.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
It's like y kind of true, but not exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I have to say, I don't know what's gonna happen.
My sense is this is what's gonna happen. They're gonna
take the pills, and of course it doesn't make fear
truly go away, and now they're gonna be trapped for
the duration of the pill in this really heightened like
deep Penny wise hallucination that's not even a hallucination, and
(15:32):
be even more vulnerable. Anyway, that's what I think is
gonna happen. I can't believe Lily did this. And by
the way, her mom is the type to notice that
those pills are gone, so I.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Know I was gonna say as well, like, oh, Lily,
my friend, this is not good.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Next in science class, Uh, there's a snail presentation the
you know, and the big, long, stocky eyes of the
snail will be important here. Margely, spurred on by mean
girl Patty, asks Lily in a very kind and empathic way,
like let's hang out. It's been a long time, I
(16:09):
miss you. And clearly some new kind some Carrie Ish
bullying is afoot, and Stephen King is you know, Stephen
King has given us some of the most intense and
visceral scenes of bullying ever put to the page or film,
and this is in that vein. Meanwhile, Captain Russo sees
(16:30):
Charlotte going to the jail and what's she doing. Charlotte
has a note from Missus Grogan saying that she has
permission to visit Hank, so what's up? Can she visit Hank?
Charlotte refuses to leave when they're like you gotta wait
for the chief, and she's like, listen, I can make
I know how to use a phone, I know how
to talk to the press. I can make this a mess.
(16:54):
She gets in and Charlotte tells Hank that first of all,
she looked like at his arrest documents and is like,
they didn't do this, that and the other. So actually
they should let you go, and they haven't, Like there's
a bunch of reasons that you should get out of
here and let me.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Do my thing.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
You're gonna have to go to trial, but you can
be on your own recognisance outside while you wait for trial.
You don't have to sit in jail while you wait
for this. However, there's one thing. I have to know,
where were you?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Because your alibi doesn't line up? Okay, and you can't
say where you were, so you know where the fuck
were you? And Hank is like, okay, you really want
me to talk about it, I'll talk about you really
want to know?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Here's why I was.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I was fucking a woman, a white woman, and we
all know that that could be a death sentence for
me anyway, and maybe even her.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So now what are we going to do about this information.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Speculation about who it is?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Later?
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Yes, the group gets together in uh the military base.
The colonel tells the general that the areas that Rose
told him to stay away from and nothing special. Rose
is smart. The general is upset because he knows the
cycle is ending soon. The general gets an idea.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
He grabs a file.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Inside there are security pictures of local Indian kids peeking
through the fence. The general wants a trap laid for them.
Oh my god, my guy, Like, could you just leave
these people alone?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Like what the fuck bro, Like, also, do you not always?
You haven't always record the fact.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
That you've forgotten a lot of stuff, Like how about
you just go and have a real conversation instead of
acting up?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Oh, here we go.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Marge, Marge, Marge, Marge, March, Marge, Marge, Marge, Marge, March.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
At lunch, Marge grills Lily about Ronnie Grogan and Marge
is really really laying it on thick. I'm like, Lily,
please escape this.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Marge is not a good person. I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Patty and the mean girls watch from afar and then
the carry of it all begins to happen, the true Carrier,
classic trick that has been done many times, many many times.
Tim the sexy high school quarterback jock sports king.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I don't know, he's just one of those guys that
people like.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
And he comes over to say hi, and Marge of
course is like totally go talk to him, like.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Go do it, don't do it.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Patty is ecstatic, she can't wait. Marge is torn, but
you did it so not really.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
She's not really you did it? Like sure?
Speaker 4 (19:47):
She follows Lily to the bathroom, where her alleged best
friend is really freaking out. She goes to pe understandable
it's nerve wracking to see a hot jock or whatever,
and Marge is like, Okay, I'm waiting. But then she
starts looking in the mirror and her guilt and her
fear start coming in, and she has the realization that
(20:08):
she has to tell Lily that something really bad is
gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Tim is not into her and it's totally a setup.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
But then she's like, oh, oh, my eye, Why is
my eye so painful?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Dud, dud, dud. They're just just.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Popping straight out theirs, just just snail eyed, just just
jiggling down the face like crazy stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Couldn't honestly believe anything I've seen before.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Lily's like, I know, my valley, I've dropped it down
the toilet, my toilet percoset, my toilet, percocet. My just
walking down the big traumatizing a million kids. Her eyes
popped out of her head. And then Lily's got a
percocet from the toilet and she's following Marge when I
just trying to cut her eye stalks out.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
She's trying to gouge him out of her head. Lily
pits much from cutting her eye out.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
But now, of course it looks like Lily was the
one who attacked Margin. How crazy eye stalks, which, by
the way, may be scariest scene so far.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I don't know, it was scary to me.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I mean, listen, Lily, let her cut her eyes, just
let her do it.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I mean, business much of a good friend. It's like,
give you break because you're just staying yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Up and I and I love that you're the type
of person to help people. But you got a lot
on your plate right now, and just it's out of
your hands. This penny Wise fault, it's not your fault.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
That's all exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
We'll continue covering episode four of it. Welcome to Eric,
and we're back the Major. Leroy confronts his wife Charli
(22:00):
about the Hank Grogan situation. Why are you getting involved?
Here we go again with this whole rock in the
boat thing. It's like, I don't give a shit, I'm
gonna help him. Okay, Yeah, I'm also like, Major, what's
wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
She's literally doing like the only good vibe, Like this
is such a good thing to do. Give me a break.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
He's an innocent man, like, you know what this is.
And LeRoy's like, listen, okay, there's some actual, like top
secret and this is not an excuse, honey, but there's
some real top secret shit that I think involves ghosts
and red balloons. And he doesn't say that, but he's like,
he is dead. Is like, very very serious ghostshit is
(22:40):
compacting the family.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
But I can't tell.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
You, Hella, because like she knows and she believes Will
class like they both not communication.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, it's very spy X family.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
It's very good. And he's like, okay, so you know,
it's real serious, top secret shit, okay, and what you're
doing could mess it up in a way that's bad.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
He doesn't explain anything.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Charlotte agrees in a way where you believe that she's
gonna keep doing what she's doing anyway, Like.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
She's just like, yeah, okay, you got it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Will is in bed. He has a brief nightmare of
the fishing trip and he can't sleep, so he gets up.
He decides to look through the telescope, and when he's
looking through the telescope, he looks down at the street,
just kind of watching a guy walk his dog. And
he sees a catches a glimpse of a scary clown
watching him, very scary image.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
He's screaming.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Dad comes in. He tells Dad there's a scary fucking
clown out.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
There in the street.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Dad runs out with a golf club, like.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Hey, he actually thinks that it's a spying It's like
a counterintelligence situation at something to do with the base.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Leeboy's always so worried about Charlotte, like messing, like making a.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Scene or messing things up.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
But Tree has no fear and he's just running out
into the street with this golf club. I'm like, please
have some fear for yourself, Like, have some worry for yourself, please.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yes. So he's screaming in the street with the golf club.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
But then he looks up in a tree he's a
red balloon and he's like, oh shit, it's happening. He
goes to see the General. He's like, what the fuck
are we doing? Like what's what the fuck is why?
Speaker 7 (24:20):
What's not?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
In General is like you know what, it's time you
see what we do here. So he takes Leroy to
come see the interrogation of Taniel, the Native American kid
who they caught peeking through the fence, and he's like, listen,
Taniel knows the location is this thing we're looking for. Okay,
(24:41):
and the Russians and the Cubans, all that shit is happening,
Like we're on the clock here. We need the weapon.
You gotta go into his mind and find out where
the fuck it is. Uh, okay, you know, excuse me.
He's saying, we're going to go into his mind. Dick
is going to go into his mind, Leroy, and he's
going to find out, like where the thing is. That's
(25:01):
what we're doing. So Dick puts the shining on Taniel,
and she finds himself in the space of like many
many doors. He opens the door, he goes into it
and he sees a memory.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
It Rose.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Telling Taniel an actual thing that happened like when Taniel
was young, that hey, the legend of penny Wise.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
That they don't call it Pennywise, but.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
He's like, the legend, that legend of the evil spirit
is real. Tell me about the story so I know
that you remember it. And then Daniel recounts the story
so we can all learn it.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, so penny Wise, it the alien crashed on Earth,
and he's basically been trapped there for a million years, correct, Jason,
We were right, millions only been three hundred and twenty
six years. But it was their ancestor who carved a
weapon from Pennywise's comet to use against it, and that
(25:58):
was how they beat him and ended up trapping him.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Then the Whites came.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
They did not heed the warnings of the glue, and
many were killed.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
The clan mothers got together.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
And sent an expedition to get more comet stone to
use as weapons against Pennyways smart plan, but the young
party went missing. When rescuers were sent, they were taken
two attacked by visions of what they most feared.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
The tribe's greatest warriors killed.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Eventually the warrior's daughter went to the cave where the
comet lay. They did end up making more weapons, and these,
I feel like are going to become a really big
part of this. So the season we can expect, I think,
for the kids to maybe get their hands on some
of these and came up with a plan to trap it.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Now this is why the government is here.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
We were right.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
This was it now, I have to say, though I
did not realize it was gonna be so.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Literal and I'm very interested. So how did they do it?
How did they trap the mystery monster? They trapped him
in pillars of its own comet. This is very kryptonite.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
I'm vibing on it. You know, it's greatest weakness is
its own this thing from its own planet, you know,
which I'm assuming there will argue is because he was
in a meteorites. Maybe he was trapped in there to
get him away from the planet. But anyway, Rose is like, yep,
you're right, Daniel, and then Dick appears and he says,
(27:19):
where are the pillars? Daniel opens the door to show
Dick where they are and close up.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Of dont don't house from the movie and that is
the end of it. Welcome to Davery Episode four.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Let's take a quick break and we'll be back with
the screen queens to discuss episode four.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Hey, welcome here.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Anywhere back?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Want to show Joel and Carmen welcome.
Speaker 8 (28:08):
I think that dairy dementia off that off the perks.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, before we dive into the discussion, your your you know,
headline thoughts on this episode, Carmen.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
Really fun episode. The scares in this episode are like evolving,
I think into something even like bigger. I think that
might take away from this episode, like, Wow, it really
is like getting kind of junge Eto style scares in
this episode, which I really enjoyed. I'm also continuing to
love how we are getting more of Dick Halloran's backstory.
(28:44):
And also I'm loving how we're getting more of the
shining and how we're seeing the shining and action a
lot more sh Yeah, that is the connective tissue between
all of the Stephen King you know, I p you know,
so it's cool to see more of that. It reminds
me too of you know, another movie that.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Is good.
Speaker 8 (29:06):
Time to go back and watch Doctor Sleep.
Speaker 7 (29:08):
You know, so m great film.
Speaker 8 (29:11):
Yeah it, loving it, Loving it, Joelle, I'm.
Speaker 9 (29:16):
About to get in my black person bag about this episode.
I have many thoughts. I am thrilled at what Court
Jefferson is doing and Jovanna Duffo and Taylor Page the
hottest couple of the year by the way, Yeah sorry.
Speaker 7 (29:30):
Sinners, but we've we found him.
Speaker 9 (29:33):
Uh just iconic performances out of them, and I really
love it.
Speaker 7 (29:38):
Yes to the jungi Eto scared really freaking gross.
Speaker 9 (29:41):
Yeah, and then I'm curious about how we're stretching the
lore and if we're doing it in the best ways,
where is it working?
Speaker 7 (29:49):
Where is it not working. I'm excited to discuss with
you guys.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Okay, well let's discuss it.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Let's just get into it then, because I have I
also have some thoughts regarding the extended a flashback of
you know, Rosentaniel's ancestors conversation. Yeah, last yes, whether it
wasn't working for you, Jason, it's not that it wasn't
It's not that it wasn't working. I have no particular
qualms about the way all of our characters are depicted
(30:21):
in this show, and I just wanted to kind of
point out, and it's a it's a hard point to
get it. It's a weird point to get into. But
I guess while I agree that like our characters are
depicted in positive ways, in ways that like, you know,
(30:42):
show them in a fleshed out way, not the negative
kind of stereotypical tropes about you know, indigenous people, Native Americans,
it is also like heavily relying on tropes, but it's
the ones we like, right, Like it's and I just
am left one more because to me, It's like when
(31:02):
you don't when you show a particular community in ways
that they are always shown running around in the hood
in the woods, hunting evil spirits that they understand and
we don't because of their connection to nature, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera, you're kind of like robbing us
(31:23):
of an opportunity to like just connect with that culture
on a human level. That's why I'm like, you know,
what are they Like, what do they talk about when
they're like sitting and eating dinner.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
I was gonna say, I want to see more of
Tanio and his friends, Like what do they do when
then not hunting?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
It like do they time together?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
And so you know, So it's not a negative. It's again,
it's not. I'm it's just I would love I would
love to be for it to be expanded and for
there to be more because I do feel while you know,
we rightfully so have criticized Stephen for some of his
depictions of Native Americans that lean heavily on hey I
(32:06):
saw this in a movie.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah exactly, you know what.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I read this that this happens, this, this.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Show, which is depicting its characters in a positive light,
is also doing that. It's just that we like it,
that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 9 (32:19):
We have got to find I'm searching for indigenous journalists
who can sort of speak to the like a critical
way about the show. I do wonder I agree with
you that there's not enough balance. That's just a hard stop,
like there's not enough there's a variety that we, you know,
that we're getting out of, like let's say our black family,
Like we're seeing all kinds of areas of the black
communities and all that.
Speaker 7 (32:40):
But I also wonder.
Speaker 9 (32:41):
If in the same way when people are like, uh,
we can always se black people says, should't always set
them as slaves, but like we were enslaved at one
point as the important part of our culture in our
history in America, and seeing those stories, I don't feel
personally diminishes us. And so I just wonder if if
there is an element of story that, like it is
at all resonant to the end of just community possibly
(33:05):
not open to it.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I mean, I'm yeah, I think that's that would be
a really cool conversation to have. I think just from
my perspective, it's like you see another tribal gathering where
the you know, the the elders are discussing what to do,
and it's like, I feel like I've seen the scene
a million times, and whenever I want to see like
white people making a decision, it doesn't happen.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Like at the halls of Congress.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Oh, like all the congressmen get together to discuss, like
what decision some white people are gonna do? It's right,
you know, like it's never on a human to human level.
Two characters who are from a place just discussing like
what's going on in a not.
Speaker 8 (33:45):
A dinner table.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
I would even say, but I would even say, like
I think something for example that would that would help
even if they want to do it in the space
of having the res there and being able to show
all different kinds of people and have it at the
meeting you it would be good if like the first
part was just about you know, like the electricity bills
going up because of a day SNR or something that
wasn't directly connected to it.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I think that would also help.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
But at the moment, everything we're getting from them is
just about their connection.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
To and get I get that this is a nitpicky,
a little bit of a nitpicky it's just like I
don't feel like I've seen versions of that entire flashback
a million times, like the good and the bad version,
and I'm just left. This is kind of like why
(34:35):
I love res Dogs so much, because it's like it
was not that it was life, just like the lives
of people who live in a place and you get
to know them on a human level, and you get
to see the ways that like, oh we talk about
I talk about that kind of thing too, or that's
how like we have the same kind of conversations but
(34:57):
on different topics. It was like that it robs us
of our ability to like latch on to this culture
and kind of like understand it. Instead, it's so mythologized
and like heightened in this legendary mythic way that it
feels like.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I think it's hard to connect to it.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
You know, res Dogs did a good job as well
of bringing in the stuff that was very much about
like how they interacted with their own ideas of folklore
and mythology.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
And you did get those elements, but it was about
that center, but in.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
A way that it intersected with their normal life and
conversation and and and I'm just feeling like I want
that from.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Some of this thing. I just I totally agree.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
I will also just say there was some there was
some quite deep criics, especially of the first season of
res Dogs, for not doing a great job with like
blackness and anti blackness in the show. So I would
say that oftentimes I think, like with within a studio system,
if there's a focus on one set of characters, this
kind of just happened. Well.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
At the same time, that doesn't mean we shouldn't aim
for more. And I love what they're doing and.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Taniel, but I agree for this show to go truly
like elevate this Stephen King use of Indian burial grounds
Native American burial grounds for a trope, then they need
to start doing something that imagines what life is like
for them outside of the trope.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
So fingers crossed, I would love like a.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Rose Bottle episode that's more just about her throughout her life.
But yeah, how are you guys feeling about that aspect?
And also about how this episode we're starting to really
see these storylines come together with Leroy seeing what's going on,
knowing what's going on with Taniel and Dick and everything,
(36:46):
Like Joelle, how are you feeling all the threads are
coming together at this point?
Speaker 7 (36:52):
Beautifully?
Speaker 9 (36:54):
We were talking before we got on mic about how
much less as though we were right episode.
Speaker 7 (37:00):
Right, we called out.
Speaker 9 (37:01):
That Marge's eyes were doing funky things in episode two,
we saw that it glowed in her eyes, and then
here we are cutting out it from her eyes.
Speaker 7 (37:11):
You know, we had mentioned briefly the element of fear.
Speaker 9 (37:18):
In our major and I really think.
Speaker 7 (37:22):
That that's come full circle.
Speaker 9 (37:23):
And I think what's most interesting about this episode for
me is the dynamic between Leroy and Charlotte. I am
compelled endlessly by this dichotomy. And it's something we've seen done.
I mean, you can all it back to a raisin
in the sun, like black family, different sides of how
to attack the problem of injustice.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Da da da da.
Speaker 9 (37:45):
But I think what Cord has done so well here
and what maybe is not often done, is like he
similar to what he did in episode six of Watchmen. Yeah,
he puts black people in positions of assumed power, showcases
how that's not really any kind of power, and then
(38:06):
sort of attacks it from a community perspective. And you know,
I was thinking too, I was like, oh, I wonder
when Maryland integrated their schools. Maryland starts the integration process
in nineteen fifty four, but it's not until nineteen seventy
three that all counties are integrated. So if you could
this idea what's happening in Maryland at this time, Matt
(38:28):
and so so, then in addition to the dynamics between
the parents, you have Will, who his whole life has
lived essentially under a national goal to integrate schools. He
was in the South, so probably not getting much there.
We know they can come later becomes of Maryland. Is
(38:48):
this his first time in an integrated school?
Speaker 7 (38:50):
I'm not sure. It doesn't quite feel like it.
Speaker 9 (38:52):
It does feel like this school has only been integrated
for a short period of time. And I think this
sort of highlights what Jason was saying earlier about like
what's life like Fordigitou communities in this area at this time?
I feel like I know so much about what black
life is like in this area at this time, just
through the show's lens, because it leads you to ask
all of these questions. And I love the idea of fear.
(39:14):
So getting back to fear, Okay LeRoy's fear, I think
two things one, it's possible to the army just straight up
lied and they were like, Bye, people don't experience fear
at the same tight.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I totally thought that could be because they the way
that they describe it is that like he's just able
to be analytical when he hasn't gone to his head,
And it's like.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
That just sounds like maybe like he's on the.
Speaker 9 (39:39):
Jick says, you don't experience fear in the same way
that I.
Speaker 7 (39:43):
Say experience fear.
Speaker 9 (39:45):
So I think that this is a really interesting commentary
on black masculinity and this idea of like and and
so not black masculinity and the idea of respectability politics, and.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
Really like teasing that out right.
Speaker 9 (40:01):
So Lee Ray is the guy who's like, if I
follow the rules, if my wife follows the rules, if
my son is good in school and like sports, then
we can all come together and be the quintessential American family.
Be safe, be happy. My wife is messing this up.
She's like, I'm trying to fulfill your dream by doing
the dirty work that you just don't want.
Speaker 7 (40:19):
To look at. That's fascinating.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
Will's out here living the life, and I.
Speaker 9 (40:23):
Think when we see his fear triggered. It's always around Will.
I don't think if the army's telling the truth, I
don't think the fear lives in his head. I don't
think it's fear for himself. I think he only has
fear and his kid's future. And I think that is
such a fucking beautiful way to explore the world of
it that we haven't had before, because most parents are
trash and awful in this series, and so to get
(40:44):
two parents who care in totally different ways, who's ways
of caring clash with each other, but they have clearly
so much love for each other and so much love
for their kid, and then doing it in Maryland, where
integration is really I mean, like we could even look
this is the last thing I'll say, but we can
look at this scene where Charlotte goes to the police
office and they're like, we're not the South, while dropping
(41:05):
like an atomic bomb's worth of microaggressions on her to
be like, you don't know what you're talking about. I
don't have to address you, lady, not calling her by
her name, not you never speak to a white woman
this way with your back turn and continuing your work, never,
especially this time week. No no, and so I think
this show has done such a beautiful job of sort
(41:27):
of exploring black culture. And they've I mean, they've credited
Chord quite a lot, not to take anything away from
each individual writer for these episodes, but they said like
they brought Chord in specifically to work on the dynamics
of this family, and I'm so excited. I'm really guys,
everyone cross your fingers. I'm trying to get him for
episode six.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yeah, the sense of the father episode do we feel about.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
When they I feel complex when when a production signals
that it's because it's On the one hand, I love
the acknowledgment of we need some we need to do
this right, we need to have that life experience and
we don't heaven Sweeney Tea. I also feel like there's
a cynical version that I've seen a lot where it's
like it's all that person's fault.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Of course it is.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
I do think that oftentimes when you take on that responsibility,
it is so that the studio can go, well, we
had one person.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
If you don't like it, they approved everything that we did.
But I also do think that Cord is.
Speaker 9 (42:19):
I think this is the great this it Yes, agree
the best possible outcome, the best possible even.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
If there isn't exact who feels like that, that's fine
because Coord's gonna do his thing. Yeah, Court, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
But I totally, I totally understand. I would also say
as well, just to jump off what you were saying, Joelle,
I was looking up some stuff. I find that the
inclusion of Julia Juniper Hill really interesting as just kind
of such a major plot point and Maryland at the
same time still had segregated institutions. It also was had
(42:50):
a lot of institutions that ran from the seven late
like seventeen hundreds where they were putting women and children
all the time. So I just think there is a
level of history here that they are delving into about
American history that is more.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Than surface level. And that's me is a big appeal.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
It's giving so much more than it needed to, which
I like respect, like there is on the.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Quote, there is a giving more than it needed to.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
There's a portion of this show that that just goes
very surface level with all of the societal and racial dynamics,
and we kind of shrug and go, okay, it's it,
you know whatever.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
But credit to the show for not doing that.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, for and for accepting a very kind of quietly
radical good version of of this into a show that's
this mainstream.
Speaker 4 (43:46):
Is kind of great that they Okay, guys, before we
jump off, because I just I love talking about the show.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
What do you think I'll we kind.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Of talked about the sling shot.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
No need to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
We have to Is the slingshot doing too much?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Okay?
Speaker 9 (44:03):
First of all, first of all, I'm gonna I'm going
about it back to you briefly, Jason explain what the
slingshot means in the original text.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
In the original text, is it Bill.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Has a slingshot that also can kill monsters, And it's
this representation of, like I think it's meant to be about,
like youth and innocence, and it's their version of like
the Freddy Krueger you don't exist. Is like this toy
that a kid can use can defeat a monster.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
That's how I read it when I was young.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
I do feel like at this point we've seen that
slingshot do a lot.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Is it the same slingshot?
Speaker 1 (44:42):
That's why I want to slingshot, right, I thought? See
now my reading of this slingshot was that because Rose
head shot it with it, there is now a connection
between the.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
And the item.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
It's not like some kind of myster embodiment of like
the innocence of childhood that can like the garlic or
the silver bullet that can hurt it. It's just like
you hit the demon with this thing and it's got
demon juice.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
In that case, is I would say in that case,
because that's a really great read. And in that case,
I would say that it probably is the same slingshot
that they will reveal goes to Bill somehow. Now, as
Chris Hayna, someone I've been on many fun set visits
with and who is generally just a great writer who
wrote a polygon, is like, does Bill unknowingly find the
(45:33):
magical slingshot at thrift store or is welcome to dairy
making the leap that slingshots in general often at all
by children. He's on the same page as me, are
especially dangerous against him once that feeds on kids, because
as he points out, there's no link like the general
isn't in the original books.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
That's a new character.
Speaker 9 (45:52):
Through like the mother's side of the family. I mean,
Chris mentions that earlier in the article.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
I would also say Rose like it just ends up
in her shop, and she the family make sure that
the sling shot always ends up with kids who are
in the town.
Speaker 9 (46:05):
I love this secret adults who don't remember but are
constantly setting kids up for success. Yeah, and that I
think it seems to be all adults against all children,
like if there's a I sort of enjoyed this idea
of because I think too, if you think about a
small town, I grew up in a very small town. Uh,
there are radical.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
Adults sprinkled throughout who like just give you the tools.
Speaker 7 (46:24):
To not just survive, but like get out if you
want to.
Speaker 9 (46:27):
And I would be curious to see how that play
out in a Stephen King type universe.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
I think that could be a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
It makes sense too, because, like you said, we already
establishing the fact that.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
There is.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
No adults who seemingly remember this in any definite way.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Or can I ask you to I only think, oh, no,
go ahead, no, no, let's talk. Well, I just wanted
to ask, I guess what do we think the general's
actual plan? Or it is like they're going to put
them in the comment and drop them on.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Moscow or something.
Speaker 5 (47:08):
What's I do think the Annual Plan.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
I do think that for some reason he thinks that
they need to be in charge of it because it
will give them some kind of technology fear weapons, fear weapons,
which I'm just like, guys, haven't you lumped by this point?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Like this is the eerr of like MK ultra, like.
Speaker 8 (47:29):
Guys weaponing people off handedly in one of the episodes
about the men Whoster at Goats program or something.
Speaker 4 (47:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, Like it's acknowledging that this is America's
occult exploration.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
I will say what's interesting about MK ultra and the
whole Not to get too far on.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Aside, but part of this was spurred on by.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Powc came back from North Korea in the Korean War,
who appeared to have been broken in some kind of
mind control way. That led the US government to be like,
we've got a mind control gap. We need to get
up with the we need to beat the Soviets and
the Communists in mind control technology, believing that the Communists
(48:12):
had somehow broken the code on how to like create
sleeper cells, break people's minds, et cetera, which led to
so it is a fascinating. It is that whole trip
is very fascinating. This makes sense that this would they
would be trying to do this.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Agreed.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
What if you guys each going forward from now to
the end of the season, what is the character that
you're most excited to see that journey from here on out?
Speaker 8 (48:39):
I think it's got to be for me. I am
most curious about what Rose is doing and what her
plan for the community is, because she seems to be
like kind of a maternal character. But I'm telling you,
if they don't, if that atomic bomb doesn't happen by
the end of the season, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
I will say Carmen Rose is so unconcerned. There must
be something else that she has in mind, or that
that's what I'm she has going because she is not
at all obviously it's concerning that the military is digging
(49:24):
around looking for it, right.
Speaker 5 (49:26):
She also doesn't seem like that pressed.
Speaker 9 (49:28):
She really doesn't so like bringing in other people, real
calm demeanor about everything. She must have backup plans on
backup plans, like I think she's like prepared, like these
white people are crazy, and I'm gonna stay prepared so
I don't be surprised, and I respect the ship out
of prass for that. Uh, I am just okay. Two,
(49:49):
it's it's Charlotte for sure. I need she. She's such
an interesting and unique character, Like her energy is so distinct,
like that not being able, it's still the sort of
like coin is she plays with her husband where he
was like, don't over trouble, She's like, you don't even
have to worry about me, don't even Yeah, I'm just thinking,
would you even.
Speaker 7 (50:08):
Think about that?
Speaker 9 (50:10):
She is just so like I'm just gonna do whatever
I feel is right in this moment. I love that
in a woman, and I feel like most women are
like that, and I feel like most women aren't represented
like that.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 9 (50:20):
I love Charlotte. And then, oh, there's one other thing
I've talked about. Baby Will is my other one who's
no longer a baby.
Speaker 5 (50:27):
Guys, one of this.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Age show is crazy.
Speaker 5 (50:32):
These kids are suddenly so much older.
Speaker 9 (50:36):
This shot through both of the strikes, and so there
was a lot of stoppage and restarting, and so suddenly
the kids are two years older. And it's a little wild.
But I feel like the show doesn't they play it
off well enough that it doesn't bother even you're he's sway.
Speaker 7 (50:51):
He's grown like four full inches.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
I was looking through the telescope and I saw a
scared clo scared right now.
Speaker 5 (51:01):
In the fifth grade.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
But I will say, Will, I'm glad you brought him
up because I love Will, and I'm specifically I'm very
excited to see how Charlotte Will and LeRoy's relationship. I
feel like that could be an ultimate kind of the
tip of the IT fighting triangle.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Is that family.
Speaker 4 (51:21):
And I'm really excited to see how they bring in
everyone else because also Charlotte's clearly like a found family
type mom.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
She's gonna look at anyone like.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
I'm going to take a hard left turn on who
I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
You're gonna say, what.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Do you think I'm gonna say anyway? No, no, no, no, no, okay.
I want to see Marge, what's up now?
Speaker 3 (51:43):
What's up?
Speaker 8 (51:43):
Now?
Speaker 2 (51:44):
What happened? What Marge? What happened? What up?
Speaker 1 (51:50):
I can't wait to see how badly or not your
eye stalks are cut. Don't listen things that go on
in high school ut to school like it's in a sense,
it's all okay because you can move on and it
doesn't matter, but hopefully you'll you know, you're the type
of person who processes all the bad things you did
(52:12):
in high school and go, Okay, that was terrible.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
I'm not going to do that again. I learned to
not do that. But come on, that was.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
You know, you did your girl so fucking dirty, and
I don't care that you had to change your heart
at the last second and that Pennywise kept you from
like you still put the thing in motion, and the
way the switch up when she's like when Lily's not
looking at her and she's like feeling, oh my gosh,
should I do this? And then Lily looks at her
and she turns it on all of a sudden, She's like,
(52:41):
I miss you so much, like when are we gonna?
It's like, you're so it's so chay, I don't care
you feel bad Tilda Lawlor though, because she's crushing performance.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
We all knew that girl again.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
A brash side of womanhood that you don't really get
to see, which is like the nerdy girl who gets
in with the popular girl. You see real life, but
we haven't necessarily seen it on screen represented in this way.
It's usually a mean girls type thing, a kind of
like played for jokes.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
This is very interesting to see a girl.
Speaker 9 (53:18):
Turned sort of version where now she's and now she's just.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
Now they're gonna obviously reject her because of this, or
they could turn her into another classic kind of American trope,
which is like she's like their pet because she's disabled.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
And aren't they so nice but all sticking with her.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
But Mike got says on a storytelling level, exactly, like,
on a storytelling level, I would say that we're probably
gonna see margin Lily now come together.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Marge will cover for Lily.
Speaker 4 (53:50):
Say that Marge, Yeah, because they have to bring Marge
back into the crew.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
It was always gonna happen. Is she gonna the.
Speaker 7 (53:56):
Third trip to the sanatorium for poor Lily?
Speaker 5 (53:59):
Like I feel like she get out of that.
Speaker 9 (54:02):
I don't think she could do a third trip, first
of all, and I don't think the show can sustain
a third trip at this point.
Speaker 7 (54:07):
It's too soon. So you might be right about that.
Speaker 9 (54:09):
I just think, like, yeah, Marge's thorist because your friend
lost her father in a horrific accident, institutionalized twice by
your side while you were getting the dog shit bullied
out of you and then you portray her.
Speaker 5 (54:22):
Yeah, Marge, you have to work for this forgiveness.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Yeah you got back. I deserve to get snail eyed plenty.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Wise, I did enjoy it for a for a brief
for one second second, I was like, well, you played
around and look what happened, and friend who you don't
deserve is out here trying to stop you from cutting
your snail eyes out. And let me tell you when
it's all said and done, when when when we come
(54:56):
back next episode, you better be like that she didn't
she was trying to help me, because if I'll tell
you what if Marge is like, yeah, maybe she was
trying to kill me, And that was like, you know,
like that makes sense the vision that I saw that
seems so real, like maybe I was just losing it
and it was just Lily's craziness infecting me when actually
she was like harming me. If that's where you go, March,
(55:19):
well that's wroth. I will turn my back on you.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
Time your back on much no forgiveness.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
On the next episode of X Ray Vision, we're getting
ready for the final season of Stranger Things with a
recap up season four. That's it for this episode.
Speaker 3 (55:32):
THANXT for listening.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
Bye Hey by.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie
Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 4 (55:43):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 4 (55:49):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fey Wack.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (55:58):
Special thanks to Saul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi Our discord moderator
Speaker 8 (56:06):
H m hmm
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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