November 24, 2025 • 49 mins
This week, Rosie is recapping episode 5 of IT: Welcome to Derry with the Scream Queens Carmen and Joelle, then Jason and Rosie are joined by the actor who plays the role of Captain Pauly Russo, Rudy Mancuso, to discuss his experience working on the series with the Muchietti’s.
Follow Rosie: IG & Letterboxd
Follow X-Ray Vision on Instagram
Join the X-Ray Vision Discord
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning, today's episode contains spoilers for the fifth episode of it.
Welcome to Darry and It's a scary one. Hello. My
(00:25):
name is Rosie Night, and welcome back to X Revision,
the podcast where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics,
and pop culture. We are coming to you from iHeart Podcast,
where we'll be bringing you three episodes a week and
news on Saturday. In today's episode, as you may have
guessed by the intro, it's just me today talking about it,
but we do have an incredible interview that me and
(00:47):
Jason did with Captain Paulie Russo himself, Rudy Mancuso. Just
such a charming interview and a big part in this
week's episode. And as I recap, I'll be bringing in
the Scream Queens to join me. So don't worry, guys,
I'm not solo out here fighting it.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I've got my very own Losers.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Club, or as I would call them, the Lovers Club,
because you guys are not losers. So yes, join me
and I will begin. Welcome to Dry episode five. We
pick up right after episode four. Taniel is seizing up
foam coming from his mouth.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
No, I love Taniel. Dick is a complete and art
a mess.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's going badly for him, and the mayor and the
General are there, but Dick is like, hey, there isn't
I'm fucking up and I'm freaking out.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
We're here, we got it. I know where it is.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And the General is like, okay, now I can tell
you what's going on, And of course that means we
skip to go and see Marge, who I have to say,
after cutting out those ice talks, PHI honestly not that bad.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Like I thought we were gonna get a much more
gruesome situation, just a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
The spacing of like where she was when she has
the table saw and she's going after her icetalks. I
was like, oh, she's not close enough to do any
actual damage, just sattery, like in her head, and I
kind of like that element of it.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
I do think.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Marge is too back on her feet, but well, we
can maybe talk about that late. I feel like my
one gripe with the show right now is everyone gets
heal too fast or gloss over too quickly. When Marge
turns to her and she's like, I told everyone you
didn't do it, I'm like, girl, she was over you
with a Chisnel.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
It doesn't mat helping.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
How It's like, is it real or is it not?
Is it well?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I have to say as well.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
I will say I do think that my first thought
her and this might have just been us, But I
also did think, did penny Wise let it not be
that bad? Because we'd kind of already had the penny
Wise playing through Marge maybe and the penny Wise like
possession elements and the Penny So I was interested about that.
But really the real I am as we learn here
(02:55):
is that even Marge basically now is on the team.
That's really what this gets us to is Marge believes
that Pennywise as well. Marge believes Lily about everything. It
is real, Lily's not crazy. I gotta say, Marge, you're
a bad friend. You should have had her back before this.
But this is realistic, and this is very realistic to
(03:15):
eleven and twelve year old friendships like you four hours
you make friends like I get it.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
And she grows up to be a better person.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yes, fingers cross, Marge, because you're not letting. You're not
doing well for the chubby.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Girls right now, like I was.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Really, you're not repping for the people who wear glasses
and have chubby little faces.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Like that, you're not making us look good.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
So back at the kids' clubhouse, which they have now
taken over, which I do just find is like so creepy,
and I understand it, but I think it's a great
echo of how everybody forgets in the town. They're constantly
at the boys clubhouse, even though the boys are gone.
Ronnie wants Marge to tell the chief what really happened,
but everyone's like guys like Marge's They're just gonna think
(03:57):
Marge is covering for Lily. I love these or interactions
because I love the fact that even this young, the
kids understand that there is this generational divide where adults
will just dismiss you. And I think that's such a
good part of why it is so scary.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
I think so universal kid experience, right it is.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It's that That's why slasher movies and horror movies have
characters and adults within them who are not useful, because
that is a representation of that hopelessness and that feeling.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
It's a nightmare.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's a nightmare. And speaking of nightmares, we get this
really scary. And I think one of the best kind
of it esque sequences that we've had so far, where
suddenly there's a tent and there's some pretty coughing coming
from the tent, and I would say you better run away,
but sadly they look inside the tent and it is
(04:51):
none other than Matti himself, a.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Sell he's fifteen now and he's starting a punk band.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Everybody is old in this episode. Guy, we have to
talk about it.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
So basically, there's a big time there's a.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Big time jump here, not cininically, but to do with
when the show had to film.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And I believe this was a post strike gap.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
The film before and after both strikes. There's strikes, there's
about a year, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
And some of the kids have evolved and some of
them have not. And you know what, honestly, this is
very Stranger Things coded. So because this is the cyclical
nature of things like it influencing Stranger things and now
unintentionally the strikes the universe. We now have teenagers here
who were ten the week before. But we're used to
it because the Stranger Things happened so fast.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I know it.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Has an impact. I think too, I just want to
stap down really quickly and say, uh, the Did the
yellow tint make anyone think of Georgie immediately?
Speaker 5 (05:57):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Chapter one, I was It's like, I was like this
bright yellow rubbery. I was like, oh this, this reminds
me of Georgy. And then Maddie sticks his little head out.
I was like, oh, no, this is bad. This doesn't
feel good.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, it doesn't bode well.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Speaking of things that don't bode well, this fucking general
who I have to say, great character, great actor, but
I hate him. He's in addition to this show and
he's driving me fucking mad. So he decides he's gonna
tell Leroy finally about the pillars and the it and
the alien and guess what. It crashed down a million
(06:34):
years ago, as we always know.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
We knew that law and basically.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
The local indigenous community was able to trap it within
these pillars that they made out of the comment that
it crashed into the world with, and Handlin is like,
what the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
This sounds made up?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And he's like, go to the house right now, you
better go to the house for the movies and betels
and you better, you better capture penny Wise.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And then I guess, like.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Drop him on Moscow or whatever scheme they have to
start working the crisis.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I love that every time somebody questions them, Who's like, hey,
what's really the place that we're gonna make their cage smaller?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's like what you're trying to trap the demon?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I mean the real truth is like, as we all know,
as people who live in the American Nation can't really
can't really trust people in charge. Sometimes, you know, things
we say, sorry, sorry.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
But is there anything true this guy has said, he
said I major to get beat up. He lied to
his friend. He said he couldn't remember, but he actually
all his memories had been recovered. Like, this guy's a
lying liar who lies, and I look forward to you agree.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I agree, and I do think that to me, it's
very clear that whatever they really want Pennywise for or
it as they call him, it's not just about this
Cuban missile crisis.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It's about having a fear.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Weapon that they can use not only on other countries
but also on themselves, because.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Exactly that's the genus.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
And stranger things kind of yes element there as well,
that kind of mkultra sort of.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
You can really tell how much the law of Stephen
King influenced Stranger Things by how much? So much of
this feels like Stranger Things, even though this was the
prior the existing ip. But yes, so anyway, Hanlan's like, bro,
how could you let me bring my entire family and
my gorgeous wife and my cool intelligent child here when
(08:41):
there is like a demon alien?
Speaker 6 (08:44):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And you want me to trap him? What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And the generals like I can't, that's honestly true, Like
that was kind of messed up with me.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
And I thought you you could stay on the base, sir.
Are you out of your mind?
Speaker 1 (08:58):
You literally are in the town dairy mane that is
being used to specifically trap this guy, and you want
to trap.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Him more for what purpose?
Speaker 7 (09:08):
Sir?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
For what pursed?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
At the clubhouse, Matty tells the kids about the clown
in the sewers. Now apparently and this was something we
were right about, but I'm still pretty shocked they committed
to Teddy, Phil and Susie, the people that we saw
murdered in the first episode. The children who seemed like
they were going to be our main cast are dead.
(09:32):
It ate Teddy's brain fill alive for now, but it's
not looking good. And what the arm. Susie's arm was
the last piece surviving of her. He ate the rest
of them.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Ronnie has watch.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, Ronnie is like, let's go to the police, and
honestly she is correct in her heart, but wrong for
this situation as Lily.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Lily is the one who's like, hey.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Are you I would Ronnie want to go.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
It's Lily who's like, let's go. Ronnie is still kind
of stuck in this idea of like, if we just
explain to people, they'll understand. And I love that all
the kids were like, girl, we don'et tried that, and
they do not, and so Lily's really pushing. Maddie seems
kind of hesitating, like.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
No cops, no cops, and he'd rather go back to
the Seers, which, yeah, I would also say that the
fact that Mattie is saying no cops and he'd rather
go back to it tells us that the leadership of
Derry is just as fucked as we thought. And even
this kid, who is so scared of what is down
(10:39):
in the Sewers does not want them to go to
the cops.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Thought I'd rather face Penny Wise than my own father.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I'm like, what is really scary, and I think we
are going to get more into the way that Derry
causes adult to act violently, which we knew before, but
I do think as well, that is also gonna be
(11:08):
something we explore here with how that causes them to
treat their kids. Because we've already had the implication that
Lily was abused, you know, we've had We've now got
this implication that Matty doesn't want to go and see
the cops even though like that includes his dad, And yeah,
just really really scary, scary stuff, honestly, And I love
(11:30):
that the show is raising these issues.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I think it's what makes it so good.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
So anyway, the we get a meeting with the tribal
leaders and they basically discuss the ongoing cycles, the twenty
six year cycles that we know about. They are claiming
that it's feces poisoning the water supply boom.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
That sounds discussing making decisions more aggressive. We know that
really it's it.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Poisoning cod very he led poisoning, which I also like
because actually around this time in American history there was
a lot of experimentation with nuclear and different power stations,
and we do have places like.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The Salton Sea and stuff in Palm Springs.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Which just became completely toxic and people couldn't live there.
I also read a fantastic book about this woman who
lived next to a kind of some kind of nuclear station,
and the book was essentially about how it made her,
you know, physically her body began to betray her and
then mentally it did, and it was all about living
next to these dangerous places of exploitation of the land,
(12:39):
which I love. Daniel bad news for him. He's been
taken prisoner. And this is also where we start to
get those bigger connections to the widest Stephen King universe.
The police are moving Hank to Shawshank as Charlotte.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Looks on helplessly.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
A vigilante actually tries to rush up an assassinate Hank.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So you could start to feel that racist.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
But not just a vigilante. The failure of the children
who were killed. Yeah, he's like, you'll die for what
you did to my children. So he's this is the father.
He's in a rage. And then in addition to his attack,
you know, while Charlotte looking around, like somebody stop the craziness,
she peers into a door that leads back into the
Flea season and there is a penny Wise cop the
(13:21):
most terrifying for him, Pennywise has taken so.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Definitely the scariest mile.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Includes definitely the Pennywise cope.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Foremost as I love Charlotte so much because she's still
then like, I got to call the Grogans. She's like,
I gotta let them know their son's been taken away.
I'm going to keep fighting for them. And then the
Major comes home and is like, hey, so got to
tell you some anger heads hunt down an evil demon
alien clown.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
How are you feeling about that?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
On such a sunny face, She's like, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
The General is in his office watching the news. When
Rose comes through.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
She's like, hey, give me Taniel please, because what the heck?
And the General is basically like, hey, I was given
a truth serum.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Very interesting.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Another connection to one of our other shows that we've
been talking about, Guys Pluribus, and he basically is like,
I can remember everything. I was always able to remember everything,
and I fucking lied to you and I'm gonna weaponize it.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
And Rose is like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
This is an insane thing to suggest, and I hate
this that you would even come up with this, and
then he basically said, hey, I know where the tunnels are,
so what if we just work together?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And Rose is like, well, you need my help. So
she goes home.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Dig something out of her hidden place in her closet
and this is one of those comet daggers. That was
the way that they were able to attack and eventually
trap it.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The general Letrocy Taniel.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
He asks her about you know, hey, we're doing this
with Dick Caller and he's probing the shining. We are
coming at this from a supernatural space. We're trying to
do something different here. And Rose is like, you know what,
You're a fucking idiot, but I'm giving Taniel the dagger
and he will go and take you into the tunnels.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Oh and Major Leroy Hanlan drives.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Will and Charlotte to the base for safety and we'll
tell you what happens next after this ad.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
Break and we're back and guess what, guys, Lily, she
goes to see Iris and she's like, hey, we're going
(15:49):
to in the.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Tunnels and Mattie is back, even though he's not back,
and you know what's going on, And Iris is like,
you've got to go to the police, Babe, You've got
to go to the police. And she's like, okay, but what, like,
what what should I really do? And mister Kersh's like,
I'm butchering, I'm butchering. I need I need a steak.
Like the vibes are just bad.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
With every adult.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I feel like at this point, like every single place
a child goes with an adult, they are getting that
we should leave vibes. And that's what Pennywise wants because
he wants them to feel alone.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Ingrid, Ingrid, Ingrid, Ingrid. Sorry, Jason will die with if
he before he gets this name.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Right, Yeah, take it from Actually we think couple.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Okay, Lily comes to see Ingrid, who we now know
is the old lady from It to aka Bob Gray's daughter.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And not only.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Other vibes bad there, but they are much worse because
before when we've seen Ingrid, she is helpful and she's
kind of knowing about what's been going on.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
She gave her the Losers Club kind of bracelet.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
But here husband's there and he's just obsessed with steak, steak, steak, steak, steak.
He's a steak, He's a butcher And suddenly Ingrid wants
to be the place, which doesn't seem like good ingrid
advice at all. So I think we're really starting to
see the influence of Penny Wise and it on the adults, say,
because he can probably sense that he's being hunted down.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Yeah, I give the query about okay, so when we
get there later the way think about the way mister
Krush stands and the way we see someone else stand later,
I'm like, anywise is everywhere. I also want to like
the Rose Tanniel scene. I thought was really moving her
handing him this like, you know, piece of material that
(17:42):
she's been part of protecting for a long time. But
then too, like I do appreciate the way the show
has like snuck in small elements. For example, Uh, they
start speaking their language to each other, the guard gets
really upset and stops them exactly. Oh yeah. And then
to just the idea of like what it means to
be of another race or culture and be in prison
(18:02):
in the American prison system, like everything is so controlled
so and able to like really reach Taniel even though
she has like a little bit of power over the
general I just thought that whole scene was really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
And I think as well, we're getting that build out
of these relationships, and also like yes, I love that
we've gotten this turnaround of kind of the usual story,
like you know, everyone knows. I watch a lot of
like Murder she wrote, right, and those those stories. Even
when they're trying to do something in the eighties or
nineties that is more transgressive or subversive by having indigenous characters,
(18:40):
it is often based around like these young indigenous people
are causing problems by trying to blow up a pipeline,
which aka, don't put the pipeline there, But like it
would always come with this thing of the outsiders doing
the wrong thing and the cops trying to navigate it,
And I love that here we are seeing like, no,
(19:01):
this is how fucking tough it is to be an
indigenous person trying to protect your land, trying to do
the right thing, and these fucking cops just won't let
you do it, like they just keep fucking stopping you.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
And then now they're fucking it up.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
By trying to put this thing in in like a
comic prison that you've already done you you need to
do it.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Like in prison.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
He's in comic prison.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
So we then see will who makes an excuse to
go to the base because he is an extremely brave
and wiley child. Charlotte definitely knows he's full of shit,
but she's also smart and wiley and scheming and wants
to know what's really going on.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
On the news, we learned that the bus.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
To shore Shank crashed and Hatchet Hank Grogan is thought
to be on the loose. Sounds honestly, as much as
I would love for Hank to be escaping, that sounds
like a penny wise plan to me. Yeah, get him
out cause more problems set people off on a you know,
potential race riot, which.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
We you know, there's been a lot of.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Theories in the discord about whether or not we will
see the black Spot fire this season, so that.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Could lead into that.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Lily brings Marge to the clubhouse and Ronnie is understandably pissed.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I would not bring her there. Marge is like, she's
an ex patty.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And no, I don't care, she's a bit, she's a bully.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Lily says, Mattie is right, we can't go to the police.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Oh, Matti's right, really okay, but if we save Phil,
who is allegedly still alive, in the sewer. It proves
that Hank is innocent, and Mattie, you're gonna take us
down there and we're gonna go to the police. And
Lily is like, so you know, he runs on fear.
My mom takes these pills that make her not feel fear,
(20:42):
so you know, I will just steal some of her
vicodin and we'll just take them and we won't be scared.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Insane theory in college. It doesn't work, children.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
And also, I gotta say I love the eleven year
oldness of this plan. This is such a kid planning, guys.
This is a real great kid plan.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
So I'm surprised none of them ode because they took
three and we don't know Mom's dose it, but we
do know they were wild with the dosages.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Back in the day, lithium or some shit like, you
don't know. But luckily none of them as far as
we know, die from the pills. The team gets their
mission briefing, hits the house and heads into the sewers
with Taniel and Dick there as pathfinders. Once again, look
(21:28):
who is out there having to do the emotional and
physical labor to take them to this place. It is
an indigenous person and a black person, and they are
traumatizing them and exploiting them, and Dick is immediately just
hearing shit like he falls in the war. He disappears,
He calls out of a bathtob he sees his grandmother,
who's really been looking out for him this season, and
(21:49):
she is.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I think his grandmother is pissed from the other side,
just be like that, I done told you ninety eleven
times not to go near this thing he is trying
to get.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
She's extremely pissed, and not only I think she also
is worried because she can see that he is being
like exploited and pushed by these people who want it
for another reason, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
And also we get this great.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Moment here where we kind of see a lot about
how it plays on people's trauma, because the grandmother says
he's coming, and then you get this kind of implication
that that would be his grandfather. Two Red shirts from
the same squad rip to those guys. They try and
find Dick. They hear footsteps, and in one of my
favorite images so far, it is Pennywise in the form
(22:31):
of Uncle Sam that.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Awesome I want you.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I want you, and it makes so much sense in
the context of everything that we know the show is
playing in. So then we get Mattie. He leads the
kids to the pipe. They take three pills each and
they head down, and guys, I gotta say.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
How did make out there? Don't just trust that, Mattie.
That could be some pennywise situation.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Guys like I love like, I love the but anything
could be, and they are not being wary enough of
that for me. Taniel leads him to the cusp, and
it's then that Leroy realizes Dick and several of the
guys are gone.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Taniel's like, fuck it, I'm out of here.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
You guys are crazy. He runs away, but he drops
the comet dagger. I do not believe he did not
have like a good sheath for that thing. I feel
like somebody would have made him yeah, or like right
around your neck or something bad news. But I'm guessing
that that means that will be there for somebody else
(23:36):
who needs it. Dick's grandpa is mad in his dream
that him and the granny are talking with the shining
Grandpa has uh huh, and Grandma warns Dick not to
open it. Grandpa opens the box and shit just gets
really crazy. Like I gotta say, Charlie is just absolutely
fucking killing it.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Wod.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Galeran.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
This is the kind of role that Scatman Carruthers made
so iconic that it is very hard to reimagine. But
scatmank Cruthers was also not given the space and existence
in the Stanley Kubrick book that he was given in
the Stanley Kubrick film that he was given in the
Stephen King books. So it's really nice to see Ham
then actually get to be properly explored here and get
(24:21):
to show his entire experience rather than as a magical
saving trope, you know. Instead, here we get to see
all the things that have impacted him and what he
has gone through.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
The kids slush around. They are hire as shit. Richie
and Marje vibein.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
They're seeing like beautiful Zack Snyder esque lens flares everywhere
like great. This is like a peak kid adventure. I
have sorry if anyone who is an adult who cares
about me is listening to this. But I was a
young child who would hang out on the railway tracks.
We had railway tracks that ran through our town, and
we'd hang out on the edge of them. So I've
(25:00):
held some hands in some dangerous situations. It feels wonderful
in the moment, but they will learn soon it is
not wonderful. We then see that Russou and Handlan are lost,
and we are getting to some of the scariest stuff
we've seen in the show now, guys, and we're also
going to bring up some very interesting questions here about
Leroy Hanlan's fear and the assumption that he does not
(25:22):
feel fear by the American government. We see Charlotte run up,
Russo doesn't see her. It's actually penny Wise. Leroy realizes
he still sees his wife as dead, but Russo can't
see shit. The body swims away, and Handlan tells Russo
shoot everything that doesn't make sense down here.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
If you see your fucking teacher, your pee teacher.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Shoot him.
Speaker 7 (25:43):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
And then, speaking of scary stuff, the kids find Susie's corpse.
All the others gross dead. Matty starts singing, his head
splits open. Come on, guys, I was trying to warn
you about this.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
And then Lily sees real Matty's corpse.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
This is actually penny Wise, and he changes into his
true form. Here we get that penny Wise moment. It's
really scary, and poor old Lily she falls behind Russo
and Handlon hear the kid's yelling. Will comes round the corner,
and just as Hanlon is about to shoot him, Russo.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Realizes he can also see Will, and he screams, no, no, no,
no no, don't shoot him.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
He's real and he jumps in front of Will, pushes
him out of the way, and takes a bullet and dies.
And this is such an incredible moment, and it's why
we have Rudy on the show talking about this story
and why he took this role. Because Rudy is not
a full time actor. Rudys a musician, Rudy is a creative.
Rudy is a writer, Rudy is a comedian, and he
(26:50):
took this role because he's friends with Andy and Barbara Machette,
and they basically said to him, Hey, we need someone
who can make this feel like it matters this moment,
and it does. It feels absolutely heartbreaking, and Hanlan realizes
in that moment, I think what true fear actually is, Like,
I think that he under whatever they've told him in
(27:12):
that moment he knows he can feel fear and fear
as something is happening to his family, and he is
so sweet and kind and tries to hold Rudy and.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
It's just really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
But before you know, we really get to deal with
Leeory having to come to terms with this, we see
that Lily is trapped and penny Wise is closing in,
and of course, penny Wise plays into her greatest fear,
thanking her for convincing everyone to come down here.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
He's like, hey, guess what. Guess what you did this?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
You bought all of your friends down here, and thanks
for doing it, because now I can kill them all.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
But guess what, guys, Lily's right.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Next to bro the Tannil comet shard a little bit
comet ex Mackinna, and that was We saw.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
A lot of really scary versions of penny Wise, but
him frozen with the teeth like maw giant wide open.
Oh he gave me the he I was like, Lily girl,
I gotta just pissed my pants and said I can't
move like.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I would have probably had an honestly.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Like, he's so close to almost eating her, and I
just feel like I also okay. So that was really scary.
I'm glad Lily's alive. I worry about this shard being
in her hands. Lily, we love you, girl, but you
have not made a lot of wise decisions over the
course of your Pennywise interactions.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
You have also just been proven that you once again
got tricked by penny Wise.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Like emotionally played, I.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Would also say, I I think something I would love
that I would hope happens before the end of this season.
We need an indigenous kid from that community to be
a part of this group.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Agree, Like, there's there's no reason not too.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I love Tangielle, I love the actor who plays Taniel,
but let's bring that age down a bit. I know
there are kids, there was Rose. Let's bring someone in
who knows how to wield it or who at least
understands it, even if it's more in a funny way,
kind of like Ritchie and his bad misunderstanding of you know,
Breweria and stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Like, let's make sure that this isn't like, we don't need.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Lily holding that thing to fight it, Like, I know
who can hold it to fight it, and it's not hers,
and so let's see what happens. But I could imagine
some kind of Tannial Dick Haller and team up. I
feel like that would be interesting. So I want to
see more Taniel. I want to see more of that.
But yes, as we get out of the sewers, we
learn that Hank is hiding out in none other than
(29:44):
Ingrid's car.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Now, this was a huge shock for me.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
He makes her drive away and it's very clear that
this is the married white woman that he has.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Been sitting around with. Bo they try and.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Work out their next move, and this is just so
crazy to me, considering of what we've seen of Ingrid
before and where this is going to.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Go, said.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Dressed, I'm interested. We love a complicated woman. We love
a naked lady who runs around. Okay, you can't have
exploitation us.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
We support old ladies, please put them back on. Back
at the base, Handlon is debriefed about the ARP and
the gen is like, so sorry that when left. Russo
was a great guy, love that, but you know he's dead.
What what about the other side?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Just what happened?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Well, the General's like, well, I'm gonna just prosecute Taniel
and the Native community for abandonism down there, and just
like shut the fuck up first of all, and Lee
Roy is like, I'm just fucking.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Going home and Dick is missing. Now this is the.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Really scary stuff because we end up and we see
Dick wandering around wondering out of that drain pipe.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
He sees russo so we know that it's a vision.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
The open box was crazy. The open box was crazy.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
At the end.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
It really blew my mind because it's like, okay, we know.
Grandma was like, you cannot open that box. Dick was
surprised his grandfather found it. It's something that he buried.
I'm trying to remember the speech from the Shining, but
there's something about like putting things away in a box,
locking it up, and like hiding it. So his grandpa finds.
It's his grandpa who actually crushes the lock and opens it.
And now I'm wondering, is Dick Dick anymore or penny
(31:31):
Wise inside of him the same way we saw him
rifyingly climb out of Maddie.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
I feel like Dick is not okay, though.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
I feel like good is not okay.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
But he is very powerful, and I do feel like
they're setting up kind of a Dick penny Wise it
mental showdown.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
The quote from Dick is he says you can put
things from the overlook away in boxes, but not memories.
They are real. They are the real ghosts. You take
them with you, and so the box thing is like
a metaphor throughout. Also doctor Sleep, you know, it's like
trapping those evil like demons inside your mental like mind box.
(32:10):
It's a thing that does a lot. Also because in
DreamCatcher not a great movie DreamCatcher, he also uses.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
This unless you love farting, Yeah, unless you.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Love farting and all of that. He uses the uh
the mind palace as yack, a sort of.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Very Hannibal lecter.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I think Dick has the power to get through this
and to battle Pennywise, but I am nervous and you
know what to talk about this incredible episode. Thank you
so much, Common and Joel for joining me. This is
maybe my favorite episode.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I think there's so much scariest, so much intrigue, so
much emotion, and yet to talk about this. We are
gonna jump to an interview after this break that me
and Jason were lucky enough to do with Pauly Russo himself.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Rudy Mahews.
Speaker 8 (33:02):
Yeah, guys, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 9 (33:23):
Tell us about your experience filming this extremely gory, scary,
and very fun show. It Welcome to Derry Suck.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Hated every second of it.
Speaker 8 (33:33):
It was uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
They treated me poorly. No, there was nothing short of
the extraordinary.
Speaker 7 (33:41):
You know, as a fan and then also as a
close friend of Andy and Barbara Musquetti, this was one
of the safest and the most interesting and most comfortable
places to rome creatively.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
I am not a full time actor.
Speaker 7 (33:57):
In rare instances, I do some acting, and it's usually
inspired by Andy and Barbara's genius. So as a storyteller,
as a musician, as a filmmaker, and as a fan
of this, this iteration of it, it was a dream
come true.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
I mean, come on, yeah, I was going to ask
you about that specific thing. How do you balance all
those different parts of your creativity and when you're especially
because now you're stepping in from making stuff yourself, being
a self made creator, into a space of there is
forty fifty years of cannon.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So many people love it. You yourself are a fan, Like,
what is that? What was that transitional step like for you.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
Yeah, I see it less as different different umbrellas, and
to me, it's all sort of one big umbrella. Like
my musicality informs how I act and make jokes and
approach dialogue, and the way I direct is very much
much inspired by all of the the years of videos
(35:06):
I made, auditioning some of these ideas, and it's like
kind of all it all comes from the same place,
even though even though they're different departments, it's all one
big hub of creativity. Whether it's acting in something like
this or creating something entirely different, that's that's my own.
They're all sort of woven. And I'm a big Stephen
King fan, A big I'm a big Andy and Barbara
(35:29):
Muschetti fan. Uh, And I got to I got to
experience both in this.
Speaker 9 (35:35):
Tell us about that relationship with the Mischties and and
how that informs your work with them.
Speaker 7 (35:42):
Yeah, I mean they I went from being fans of them,
like I said, to being friends and now you know, family.
I see I talk to Andy every day, Andy and
or Barbara every day. I see him a few times
a week, probably see him tonight fair soccer. I've very
lucky to call them my older brother and sister at
this point, and we creatively respect each other very much
(36:06):
and have almost we made a vow to incorporate each
other in each other's work in some way forever. So
you know, Andy's in my film musica. He put me
in The Flash, he put me in this and now,
and now we have a film, a musical we're developing
together right now.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
So so yeah.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
I think if you're lucky enough to collaborate with your
your friends, people you love and respect and admire, and
also they're talented on top of it, you can create
some really cool things.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Okay, First of all, who's your soccer team?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Seeing as I'm from England and Jason and I both
watch sports.
Speaker 7 (36:42):
I'm bigger Knopoly because of my dad, So that's more
about that. Incredible, Yeah, and then when it comes to soccer, yeah, absolutely,
And when it comes to Brazilian soccer on my mom's side,
it's flam Angle.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I love this. So you've been following all your life.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Then by force?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, well yeah, yeah, yeah, same, I understand. I understand
that deeply.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
When it came to working with Barbara and Andy on this,
how did the collaboration come apart? Was the character of poorly.
Some of you guys were like collaborating on to craft it.
Did they present it to you and say, here's what
the story is going to be.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
What was that process?
Speaker 7 (37:17):
Like, Yeah, so fairly early on, and he was telling
me about the development of Welcome to Darius, it as
a series and the time period that it took place in.
I was compelled in that very moment because it was
always a dream of Andy's but also a dream of
(37:38):
me of mine as a fan, to see this within
the context of the sixties, you know, where the actual
original source takes place, which is a dream to bring
to life. And he told me fairly early like, you know,
there's this character kicking around, I think it would be
really great for you. Because we both agreed it was
sort of an extension of who I really am. I
(38:00):
know this guy, this Italian American, you know, quick witted, reactive, uh.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Napoleon complex, little shit. I know this.
Speaker 7 (38:11):
I know this guy because he's inside of me.
Speaker 9 (38:17):
You mentioned being a fan of Stephen King. Are you
a fan of horror also just the work of Stephen King?
How do you feel about the scary stuff?
Speaker 4 (38:25):
I'm a fan of great storytelling and cinema and TV
and music.
Speaker 7 (38:30):
I'm not necessarily a fan of of of horror as
a genre, but again, like, when what a story is
so compelling and the filmmaking is so uh sophisticated, I'm
in So are my favorite films horror films? No? Mostly
I would say no, but but like and my favorite
(38:51):
Stephen King story that then we're adapted into films aren't
classically horror. Their their chance. They're suspenseful and dramatic. But
like I love stand By Me, I love I love Shawshank, Redemption, I.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
Love Green Mile. I did like it because I thought
it was fucking weird.
Speaker 7 (39:07):
The original TV movies and Courage we were in Strength
and it was like somehow it was like kind of
cool and interesting, quirky and jovial, but then fucking horrific.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
I was like, that's interesting.
Speaker 7 (39:18):
But then I saw twenty sixteen Andy Muschetti's Andy Barber's It,
and I'm watching this thing, and I'm I'm not one
to go watch a horror film in theater, Like I'm
not into the jump scares.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
I know it's part of the language of horror and thriller.
Speaker 7 (39:34):
To have you know, that spring and that sound design
and that creepy music and then the jump scare and
the disturbing image.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
But like, that's not scary to me, that's a little
bit cheesy, that leans that leans cheap to me sometimes personally.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
But then you get every so often you get something
as sophisticated as as it that blends beautiful romantic filmmaking,
classic style of filmmaking with really really horrific and horrifying
set pieces and performances that to me was compelling.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
And I think that and and you know, films like Get.
Speaker 7 (40:11):
Out are have contributed to this resurgence of a respectable
version of elevated horror and thrillers.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah, that's really interesting that you brought up like the
stand By Me and the Green Mile and Shawshank, because
those are very like emotionally tied stories and you really
get to kind of take part in that Stephen King
legacy of like the Kid's Adventure, the kids coming together.
The storylines of this season really converge in the sewers
(40:41):
where you are with Leroy and in this kind of
journey that you guys take on. So could you talk
a little bit about setting up that closeness that just
made all the events that we see in episode five,
Feel Possible, yea.
Speaker 7 (40:56):
You know, Paul is a small character, but an important one,
and that's how it was. It was described to me
very early on. It's like, this isn't a big character,
but like he's going to.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Mean a lot. And uh.
Speaker 7 (41:10):
In order to really warrant that that that this big
sacrificial death, this big set piece that's meant to be
quite significant and moving, we really need to sell the
chemistry between these these two guys who are more than
friends and and and Air Force officers and pilots there
(41:34):
they're brothers. I like to believe that Leroy is all
Paully really has. And you know, you meet this guy,
he's sort of a peripheral character and he says funny ship,
and he's always trying to outsmart the situation or even
get out of the situation, and he's doubting everything.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Not a character you'd expect.
Speaker 7 (41:54):
To jump in front of a bullet, right, and yet
that's exactly who he is underneath all that all the
defense armor. Is this this this this a very caring
person who really really doesn't have a ton to lose
other than Leroy. Whereas Leroy has a family and he's
up against a lot more. And I think in that
(42:16):
moment that's why Poly is so accepting of what he's
just done. It's like, Okay, yeah, I think this is
what it was all about. This is what this is,
what my purpose is.
Speaker 9 (42:25):
It is really such a horror kind of set piece,
the kind of thing that I think fans of it,
whether it's the book or the original miniseries or the
later movies, I would expect to find in some form
of fashion in a story like this tell us about
filming that thats it.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Sucked the war right in the series, it.
Speaker 7 (42:51):
Was so hard not I mean, look, I should be
so lucky to be to be acting with this crew
and these people and being a part of this universe.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
But I'm not going to tell you was comfortable. It's uh,
we're in you know.
Speaker 7 (43:03):
It's like eighteen hours of We had three layers, so
we had a wet suit, and then over the wet suit,
it was another costume.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
Over that costume was another military costume. Many days.
Speaker 7 (43:15):
The thing is, they staggered my shooting. So I go
in for a week and then I leave for a month.
I go in for two weeks, I go in for
two days. This this this episode five. The reshoot, the
one that was used was over the course of three days,
I want to say, and it was like, it's not
that not you know, three days is not that bad.
You know, my fiance shot for eight months out of the.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Year on Riverdale.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I'm a huge fan, so.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
Yeah, yeah, me too, also by force.
Speaker 10 (43:46):
But I.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Should be so lucky, Oh poor me.
Speaker 7 (43:51):
Three days in the sewers of the most iconic one
of the most iconic you know, stories and franchise in
the world.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
But it's not easy. Again, I'm not to it, not
a full time actor. So in this uncomfortable costume.
Speaker 7 (44:03):
They're all period accurate, incredible that they're also very heavy
and dense, and these guns which are real period guns,
not functional, but they're really and you're inside these beautiful,
practical builds. These sewers are yes, we're on a stage,
but they're real.
Speaker 11 (44:17):
It's real water, it's real sewers, uh, highly detailed, and
the whole crew is outside, so it's just me and
and Javon and it's really dark, creepy tunnel.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
So a lot of what you're seeing is is uh
is very is very real and.
Speaker 7 (44:34):
One end incredibly rewarding and surreal to be to be
in there as a fan. On the other end, I was, uh,
we were suffering.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
We were really suffering.
Speaker 10 (44:47):
Yeah, And and and the death moment, that that big
moment was done, like we barely made the day, the
very end of the day, and you have fucking I
gotta get in this disgusting water, and I'm and tired.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
Intents are high. I hadn't eaten in twenty four hours.
Speaker 7 (45:04):
And Andy would stull get at one point in more
blood and more blood.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
There's shoving blood in my.
Speaker 7 (45:09):
Mouth, and then and then Andy at one point he
was like, all right, I guess I'll just do it myself,
and he runs into the set getting all wet, pouring
blood into my mouth.
Speaker 12 (45:19):
I'm like, by the by the time we're rolling, I
hope the performance sold because it was the product of
all these things.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
No, it did, And I think, like it feels so
much heavier because of the entire setup of oh this
is fake. The whole series has been about what can
you believe? What can you not believe? Can you believe
your eyes? And then it's the worst possible version, like
if that had happened, it's not just about saving Will,
It's also about saving Leroy because he's never going to
(45:56):
be able to get over it, and also interesting to
see a man who is never you know, who currently
doesn't feel fear, but dealing and grappling with the emotions
of what would it be like if I lost my wife?
What would I be like if I lost my son? Basically,
just like, how do you balance that it's such a
hugely emotional moment, how do you balance that with the
(46:19):
physical nature of the shoot and worrying that it's a
believable death and all those other things that go through
your head when you are acting with difficulty.
Speaker 7 (46:27):
I mean, it's like, I'm trying my best to think
about what what what this means, what it means for
the character, what it means to the series, but also
what it means to me, what I like about this moment,
and again, within the context and the grand scheme of
(46:47):
this series, it's it's a small moment, but it's an
important one. It's a it's a humanized death.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
It's happened. It's a grounded death.
Speaker 7 (46:56):
This isn't some big supernatural crusom attack by Penny Penny
Wise or or or or the illusion of a monster
or a ghost. It's it's real, it's really happening. And
I like the sort of poetic irony of it, because
you'd expect this man who's desensitized to fear to be
(47:19):
the one to take a bullet, and yet it's the
other way around. And sometimes it's important for fear to
find you so that you can you can react, you
can really feel, and you can really react responsibly. It's
dangerous to be fearless. And Pully is this guy who
(47:40):
who is especially in the Sewers, is consumed by fear
because he doesn't understand. He doesn't fully understand what's happening.
There's apparently these these these this external force that is
tormenting them, but he can't see any of them.
Speaker 4 (47:54):
So how do you? How do you?
Speaker 7 (47:57):
He really wants to believe Leroy because it's only probably
the only person in the world he loves and trusts,
and yet it's so hard to And then in this
moment he does something that actually Leroy is usually the
good one, the one to do this, be analytical and
mathematical and solve a problem. It's like that, wait, wait,
And in this moment, actually Pauli gets gets to be
that guy where he's like Okay, that's his son. If
(48:20):
I see him, then he must be real. And it's
all on a blink of an eye. And then he
jumps in front, and then when he takes that bullet
instead of panicky, I think that's why he accepts it,
because like, Okay, this is I've found my purpose in all.
Speaker 9 (48:34):
This great episode, great show. You were wonderful in it.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
Of course, thank you guys for the cool questions.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Of course, thank you so much for joining us, Rudy,
and thank you guys for listening to our talk about it.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Welcome to Derry episode five. This week on Extra Vision.
We're celebrating the holidays with some short stocking stuff for episodes,
including a fictional food potlock, some very chaotic.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Answers, and a deep dive into what we really want
from adaptations, and some thoughts from me and Aboo on
the new season of The Witcher.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
That's the episode.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Thanks so much for listening, Bye.
Speaker 9 (49:14):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Korfman.
Speaker 8 (49:23):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bai Wag.
Speaker 9 (49:30):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our discord moderator
Warning, today's episode contains spoilers for the fifth episode of it.
Welcome to Darry and It's a scary one. Hello. My
(00:25):
name is Rosie Night, and welcome back to X Revision,
the podcast where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics,
and pop culture. We are coming to you from iHeart Podcast,
where we'll be bringing you three episodes a week and
news on Saturday. In today's episode, as you may have
guessed by the intro, it's just me today talking about it,
but we do have an incredible interview that me and
(00:47):
Jason did with Captain Paulie Russo himself, Rudy Mancuso. Just
such a charming interview and a big part in this
week's episode. And as I recap, I'll be bringing in
the Scream Queens to join me. So don't worry, guys,
I'm not solo out here fighting it.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I've got my very own Losers.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Club, or as I would call them, the Lovers Club,
because you guys are not losers. So yes, join me
and I will begin. Welcome to Dry episode five. We
pick up right after episode four. Taniel is seizing up
foam coming from his mouth.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
No, I love Taniel. Dick is a complete and art
a mess.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's going badly for him, and the mayor and the
General are there, but Dick is like, hey, there isn't
I'm fucking up and I'm freaking out.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
We're here, we got it. I know where it is.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And the General is like, okay, now I can tell
you what's going on, And of course that means we
skip to go and see Marge, who I have to say,
after cutting out those ice talks, PHI honestly not that bad.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Like I thought we were gonna get a much more
gruesome situation, just a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
The spacing of like where she was when she has
the table saw and she's going after her icetalks. I
was like, oh, she's not close enough to do any
actual damage, just sattery, like in her head, and I
kind of like that element of it.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
I do think.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Marge is too back on her feet, but well, we
can maybe talk about that late. I feel like my
one gripe with the show right now is everyone gets
heal too fast or gloss over too quickly. When Marge
turns to her and she's like, I told everyone you
didn't do it, I'm like, girl, she was over you
with a Chisnel.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
It doesn't mat helping.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
How It's like, is it real or is it not?
Is it well?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I have to say as well.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
I will say I do think that my first thought
her and this might have just been us, But I
also did think, did penny Wise let it not be
that bad? Because we'd kind of already had the penny
Wise playing through Marge maybe and the penny Wise like
possession elements and the Penny So I was interested about that.
But really the real I am as we learn here
(02:55):
is that even Marge basically now is on the team.
That's really what this gets us to is Marge believes
that Pennywise as well. Marge believes Lily about everything. It
is real, Lily's not crazy. I gotta say, Marge, you're
a bad friend. You should have had her back before this.
But this is realistic, and this is very realistic to
(03:15):
eleven and twelve year old friendships like you four hours
you make friends like I get it.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
And she grows up to be a better person.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yes, fingers cross, Marge, because you're not letting. You're not
doing well for the chubby.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Girls right now, like I was.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Really, you're not repping for the people who wear glasses
and have chubby little faces.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Like that, you're not making us look good.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
So back at the kids' clubhouse, which they have now
taken over, which I do just find is like so creepy,
and I understand it, but I think it's a great
echo of how everybody forgets in the town. They're constantly
at the boys clubhouse, even though the boys are gone.
Ronnie wants Marge to tell the chief what really happened,
but everyone's like guys like Marge's They're just gonna think
(03:57):
Marge is covering for Lily. I love these or interactions
because I love the fact that even this young, the
kids understand that there is this generational divide where adults
will just dismiss you. And I think that's such a
good part of why it is so scary.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
I think so universal kid experience, right it is.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It's that That's why slasher movies and horror movies have
characters and adults within them who are not useful, because
that is a representation of that hopelessness and that feeling.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
It's a nightmare.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's a nightmare. And speaking of nightmares, we get this
really scary. And I think one of the best kind
of it esque sequences that we've had so far, where
suddenly there's a tent and there's some pretty coughing coming
from the tent, and I would say you better run away,
but sadly they look inside the tent and it is
(04:51):
none other than Matti himself, a.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Sell he's fifteen now and he's starting a punk band.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Everybody is old in this episode. Guy, we have to
talk about it.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
So basically, there's a big time there's a.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Big time jump here, not cininically, but to do with
when the show had to film.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And I believe this was a post strike gap.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
The film before and after both strikes. There's strikes, there's
about a year, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
And some of the kids have evolved and some of
them have not. And you know what, honestly, this is
very Stranger Things coded. So because this is the cyclical
nature of things like it influencing Stranger things and now
unintentionally the strikes the universe. We now have teenagers here
who were ten the week before. But we're used to
it because the Stranger Things happened so fast.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I know it.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Has an impact. I think too, I just want to
stap down really quickly and say, uh, the Did the
yellow tint make anyone think of Georgie immediately?
Speaker 5 (05:57):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Chapter one, I was It's like, I was like this
bright yellow rubbery. I was like, oh this, this reminds
me of Georgy. And then Maddie sticks his little head out.
I was like, oh, no, this is bad. This doesn't
feel good.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, it doesn't bode well.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Speaking of things that don't bode well, this fucking general
who I have to say, great character, great actor, but
I hate him. He's in addition to this show and
he's driving me fucking mad. So he decides he's gonna
tell Leroy finally about the pillars and the it and
the alien and guess what. It crashed down a million
(06:34):
years ago, as we always know.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
We knew that law and basically.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
The local indigenous community was able to trap it within
these pillars that they made out of the comment that
it crashed into the world with, and Handlin is like,
what the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
This sounds made up?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And he's like, go to the house right now, you
better go to the house for the movies and betels
and you better, you better capture penny Wise.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And then I guess, like.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Drop him on Moscow or whatever scheme they have to
start working the crisis.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I love that every time somebody questions them, Who's like, hey,
what's really the place that we're gonna make their cage smaller?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's like what you're trying to trap the demon?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I mean the real truth is like, as we all know,
as people who live in the American Nation can't really
can't really trust people in charge. Sometimes, you know, things
we say, sorry, sorry.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
But is there anything true this guy has said, he
said I major to get beat up. He lied to
his friend. He said he couldn't remember, but he actually
all his memories had been recovered. Like, this guy's a
lying liar who lies, and I look forward to you agree.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I agree, and I do think that to me, it's
very clear that whatever they really want Pennywise for or
it as they call him, it's not just about this
Cuban missile crisis.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It's about having a fear.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Weapon that they can use not only on other countries
but also on themselves, because.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Exactly that's the genus.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
And stranger things kind of yes element there as well,
that kind of mkultra sort of.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
You can really tell how much the law of Stephen
King influenced Stranger Things by how much? So much of
this feels like Stranger Things, even though this was the
prior the existing ip. But yes, so anyway, Hanlan's like, bro,
how could you let me bring my entire family and
my gorgeous wife and my cool intelligent child here when
(08:41):
there is like a demon alien?
Speaker 6 (08:44):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And you want me to trap him? What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And the generals like I can't, that's honestly true, Like
that was kind of messed up with me.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
And I thought you you could stay on the base, sir.
Are you out of your mind?
Speaker 1 (08:58):
You literally are in the town dairy mane that is
being used to specifically trap this guy, and you want
to trap.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Him more for what purpose?
Speaker 7 (09:08):
Sir?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
For what pursed?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
At the clubhouse, Matty tells the kids about the clown
in the sewers. Now apparently and this was something we
were right about, but I'm still pretty shocked they committed
to Teddy, Phil and Susie, the people that we saw
murdered in the first episode. The children who seemed like
they were going to be our main cast are dead.
(09:32):
It ate Teddy's brain fill alive for now, but it's
not looking good. And what the arm. Susie's arm was
the last piece surviving of her. He ate the rest
of them.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Ronnie has watch.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, Ronnie is like, let's go to the police, and
honestly she is correct in her heart, but wrong for
this situation as Lily.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Lily is the one who's like, hey.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Are you I would Ronnie want to go.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
It's Lily who's like, let's go. Ronnie is still kind
of stuck in this idea of like, if we just
explain to people, they'll understand. And I love that all
the kids were like, girl, we don'et tried that, and
they do not, and so Lily's really pushing. Maddie seems
kind of hesitating, like.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
No cops, no cops, and he'd rather go back to
the Seers, which, yeah, I would also say that the
fact that Mattie is saying no cops and he'd rather
go back to it tells us that the leadership of
Derry is just as fucked as we thought. And even
this kid, who is so scared of what is down
(10:39):
in the Sewers does not want them to go to
the cops.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Thought I'd rather face Penny Wise than my own father.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I'm like, what is really scary, and I think we
are going to get more into the way that Derry
causes adult to act violently, which we knew before, but
I do think as well, that is also gonna be
(11:08):
something we explore here with how that causes them to
treat their kids. Because we've already had the implication that
Lily was abused, you know, we've had We've now got
this implication that Matty doesn't want to go and see
the cops even though like that includes his dad, And yeah,
just really really scary, scary stuff, honestly, And I love
(11:30):
that the show is raising these issues.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I think it's what makes it so good.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
So anyway, the we get a meeting with the tribal
leaders and they basically discuss the ongoing cycles, the twenty
six year cycles that we know about. They are claiming
that it's feces poisoning the water supply boom.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
That sounds discussing making decisions more aggressive. We know that
really it's it.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Poisoning cod very he led poisoning, which I also like
because actually around this time in American history there was
a lot of experimentation with nuclear and different power stations,
and we do have places like.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The Salton Sea and stuff in Palm Springs.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Which just became completely toxic and people couldn't live there.
I also read a fantastic book about this woman who
lived next to a kind of some kind of nuclear station,
and the book was essentially about how it made her,
you know, physically her body began to betray her and
then mentally it did, and it was all about living
next to these dangerous places of exploitation of the land,
(12:39):
which I love. Daniel bad news for him. He's been
taken prisoner. And this is also where we start to
get those bigger connections to the widest Stephen King universe.
The police are moving Hank to Shawshank as Charlotte.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Looks on helplessly.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
A vigilante actually tries to rush up an assassinate Hank.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So you could start to feel that racist.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
But not just a vigilante. The failure of the children
who were killed. Yeah, he's like, you'll die for what
you did to my children. So he's this is the father.
He's in a rage. And then in addition to his attack,
you know, while Charlotte looking around, like somebody stop the craziness,
she peers into a door that leads back into the
Flea season and there is a penny Wise cop the
(13:21):
most terrifying for him, Pennywise has taken so.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Definitely the scariest mile.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Includes definitely the Pennywise cope.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Foremost as I love Charlotte so much because she's still
then like, I got to call the Grogans. She's like,
I gotta let them know their son's been taken away.
I'm going to keep fighting for them. And then the
Major comes home and is like, hey, so got to
tell you some anger heads hunt down an evil demon
alien clown.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
How are you feeling about that?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
On such a sunny face, She's like, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
The General is in his office watching the news. When
Rose comes through.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
She's like, hey, give me Taniel please, because what the heck?
And the General is basically like, hey, I was given
a truth serum.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Very interesting.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Another connection to one of our other shows that we've
been talking about, Guys Pluribus, and he basically is like,
I can remember everything. I was always able to remember everything,
and I fucking lied to you and I'm gonna weaponize it.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
And Rose is like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
This is an insane thing to suggest, and I hate
this that you would even come up with this, and
then he basically said, hey, I know where the tunnels are,
so what if we just work together?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And Rose is like, well, you need my help. So
she goes home.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Dig something out of her hidden place in her closet
and this is one of those comet daggers. That was
the way that they were able to attack and eventually
trap it.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The general Letrocy Taniel.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
He asks her about you know, hey, we're doing this
with Dick Caller and he's probing the shining. We are
coming at this from a supernatural space. We're trying to
do something different here. And Rose is like, you know what,
You're a fucking idiot, but I'm giving Taniel the dagger
and he will go and take you into the tunnels.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Oh and Major Leroy Hanlan drives.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Will and Charlotte to the base for safety and we'll
tell you what happens next after this ad.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
Break and we're back and guess what, guys, Lily, she
goes to see Iris and she's like, hey, we're going
(15:49):
to in the.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Tunnels and Mattie is back, even though he's not back,
and you know what's going on, And Iris is like,
you've got to go to the police, Babe, You've got
to go to the police. And she's like, okay, but what, like,
what what should I really do? And mister Kersh's like,
I'm butchering, I'm butchering. I need I need a steak.
Like the vibes are just bad.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
With every adult.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I feel like at this point, like every single place
a child goes with an adult, they are getting that
we should leave vibes. And that's what Pennywise wants because
he wants them to feel alone.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Ingrid, Ingrid, Ingrid, Ingrid. Sorry, Jason will die with if
he before he gets this name.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Right, Yeah, take it from Actually we think couple.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Okay, Lily comes to see Ingrid, who we now know
is the old lady from It to aka Bob Gray's daughter.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And not only.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Other vibes bad there, but they are much worse because
before when we've seen Ingrid, she is helpful and she's
kind of knowing about what's been going on.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
She gave her the Losers Club kind of bracelet.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
But here husband's there and he's just obsessed with steak, steak, steak, steak, steak.
He's a steak, He's a butcher And suddenly Ingrid wants
to be the place, which doesn't seem like good ingrid
advice at all. So I think we're really starting to
see the influence of Penny Wise and it on the adults, say,
because he can probably sense that he's being hunted down.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Yeah, I give the query about okay, so when we
get there later the way think about the way mister
Krush stands and the way we see someone else stand later,
I'm like, anywise is everywhere. I also want to like
the Rose Tanniel scene. I thought was really moving her
handing him this like, you know, piece of material that
(17:42):
she's been part of protecting for a long time. But
then too, like I do appreciate the way the show
has like snuck in small elements. For example, Uh, they
start speaking their language to each other, the guard gets
really upset and stops them exactly. Oh yeah. And then
to just the idea of like what it means to
be of another race or culture and be in prison
(18:02):
in the American prison system, like everything is so controlled
so and able to like really reach Taniel even though
she has like a little bit of power over the
general I just thought that whole scene was really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
And I think as well, we're getting that build out
of these relationships, and also like yes, I love that
we've gotten this turnaround of kind of the usual story,
like you know, everyone knows. I watch a lot of
like Murder she wrote, right, and those those stories. Even
when they're trying to do something in the eighties or
nineties that is more transgressive or subversive by having indigenous characters,
(18:40):
it is often based around like these young indigenous people
are causing problems by trying to blow up a pipeline,
which aka, don't put the pipeline there, But like it
would always come with this thing of the outsiders doing
the wrong thing and the cops trying to navigate it,
And I love that here we are seeing like, no,
(19:01):
this is how fucking tough it is to be an
indigenous person trying to protect your land, trying to do
the right thing, and these fucking cops just won't let
you do it, like they just keep fucking stopping you.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
And then now they're fucking it up.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
By trying to put this thing in in like a
comic prison that you've already done you you need to
do it.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Like in prison.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
He's in comic prison.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
So we then see will who makes an excuse to
go to the base because he is an extremely brave
and wiley child. Charlotte definitely knows he's full of shit,
but she's also smart and wiley and scheming and wants
to know what's really going on.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
On the news, we learned that the bus.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
To shore Shank crashed and Hatchet Hank Grogan is thought
to be on the loose. Sounds honestly, as much as
I would love for Hank to be escaping, that sounds
like a penny wise plan to me. Yeah, get him
out cause more problems set people off on a you know,
potential race riot, which.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
We you know, there's been a lot of.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Theories in the discord about whether or not we will
see the black Spot fire this season, so that.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Could lead into that.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Lily brings Marge to the clubhouse and Ronnie is understandably pissed.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I would not bring her there. Marge is like, she's
an ex patty.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And no, I don't care, she's a bit, she's a bully.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Lily says, Mattie is right, we can't go to the police.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Oh, Matti's right, really okay, but if we save Phil,
who is allegedly still alive, in the sewer. It proves
that Hank is innocent, and Mattie, you're gonna take us
down there and we're gonna go to the police. And
Lily is like, so you know, he runs on fear.
My mom takes these pills that make her not feel fear,
(20:42):
so you know, I will just steal some of her
vicodin and we'll just take them and we won't be scared.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Insane theory in college. It doesn't work, children.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
And also, I gotta say I love the eleven year
oldness of this plan. This is such a kid planning, guys.
This is a real great kid plan.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
So I'm surprised none of them ode because they took
three and we don't know Mom's dose it, but we
do know they were wild with the dosages.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Back in the day, lithium or some shit like, you
don't know. But luckily none of them as far as
we know, die from the pills. The team gets their
mission briefing, hits the house and heads into the sewers
with Taniel and Dick there as pathfinders. Once again, look
(21:28):
who is out there having to do the emotional and
physical labor to take them to this place. It is
an indigenous person and a black person, and they are
traumatizing them and exploiting them, and Dick is immediately just
hearing shit like he falls in the war. He disappears,
He calls out of a bathtob he sees his grandmother,
who's really been looking out for him this season, and
(21:49):
she is.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I think his grandmother is pissed from the other side,
just be like that, I done told you ninety eleven
times not to go near this thing he is trying
to get.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
She's extremely pissed, and not only I think she also
is worried because she can see that he is being
like exploited and pushed by these people who want it
for another reason, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
And also we get this great.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Moment here where we kind of see a lot about
how it plays on people's trauma, because the grandmother says
he's coming, and then you get this kind of implication
that that would be his grandfather. Two Red shirts from
the same squad rip to those guys. They try and
find Dick. They hear footsteps, and in one of my
favorite images so far, it is Pennywise in the form
(22:31):
of Uncle Sam that.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Awesome I want you.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I want you, and it makes so much sense in
the context of everything that we know the show is
playing in. So then we get Mattie. He leads the
kids to the pipe. They take three pills each and
they head down, and guys, I gotta say.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
How did make out there? Don't just trust that, Mattie.
That could be some pennywise situation.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Guys like I love like, I love the but anything
could be, and they are not being wary enough of
that for me. Taniel leads him to the cusp, and
it's then that Leroy realizes Dick and several of the
guys are gone.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Taniel's like, fuck it, I'm out of here.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
You guys are crazy. He runs away, but he drops
the comet dagger. I do not believe he did not
have like a good sheath for that thing. I feel
like somebody would have made him yeah, or like right
around your neck or something bad news. But I'm guessing
that that means that will be there for somebody else
(23:36):
who needs it. Dick's grandpa is mad in his dream
that him and the granny are talking with the shining
Grandpa has uh huh, and Grandma warns Dick not to
open it. Grandpa opens the box and shit just gets
really crazy. Like I gotta say, Charlie is just absolutely
fucking killing it.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Wod.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Galeran.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
This is the kind of role that Scatman Carruthers made
so iconic that it is very hard to reimagine. But
scatmank Cruthers was also not given the space and existence
in the Stanley Kubrick book that he was given in
the Stanley Kubrick film that he was given in the
Stephen King books. So it's really nice to see Ham
then actually get to be properly explored here and get
(24:21):
to show his entire experience rather than as a magical
saving trope, you know. Instead, here we get to see
all the things that have impacted him and what he
has gone through.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
The kids slush around. They are hire as shit. Richie
and Marje vibein.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
They're seeing like beautiful Zack Snyder esque lens flares everywhere
like great. This is like a peak kid adventure. I
have sorry if anyone who is an adult who cares
about me is listening to this. But I was a
young child who would hang out on the railway tracks.
We had railway tracks that ran through our town, and
we'd hang out on the edge of them. So I've
(25:00):
held some hands in some dangerous situations. It feels wonderful
in the moment, but they will learn soon it is
not wonderful. We then see that Russou and Handlan are lost,
and we are getting to some of the scariest stuff
we've seen in the show now, guys, and we're also
going to bring up some very interesting questions here about
Leroy Hanlan's fear and the assumption that he does not
(25:22):
feel fear by the American government. We see Charlotte run up,
Russo doesn't see her. It's actually penny Wise. Leroy realizes
he still sees his wife as dead, but Russo can't
see shit. The body swims away, and Handlan tells Russo
shoot everything that doesn't make sense down here.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
If you see your fucking teacher, your pee teacher.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Shoot him.
Speaker 7 (25:43):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
And then, speaking of scary stuff, the kids find Susie's corpse.
All the others gross dead. Matty starts singing, his head
splits open. Come on, guys, I was trying to warn
you about this.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
And then Lily sees real Matty's corpse.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
This is actually penny Wise, and he changes into his
true form. Here we get that penny Wise moment. It's
really scary, and poor old Lily she falls behind Russo
and Handlon hear the kid's yelling. Will comes round the corner,
and just as Hanlon is about to shoot him, Russo.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Realizes he can also see Will, and he screams, no, no, no,
no no, don't shoot him.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
He's real and he jumps in front of Will, pushes
him out of the way, and takes a bullet and dies.
And this is such an incredible moment, and it's why
we have Rudy on the show talking about this story
and why he took this role. Because Rudy is not
a full time actor. Rudys a musician, Rudy is a creative.
Rudy is a writer, Rudy is a comedian, and he
(26:50):
took this role because he's friends with Andy and Barbara Machette,
and they basically said to him, Hey, we need someone
who can make this feel like it matters this moment,
and it does. It feels absolutely heartbreaking, and Hanlan realizes
in that moment, I think what true fear actually is, Like,
I think that he under whatever they've told him in
(27:12):
that moment he knows he can feel fear and fear
as something is happening to his family, and he is
so sweet and kind and tries to hold Rudy and.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
It's just really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
But before you know, we really get to deal with
Leeory having to come to terms with this, we see
that Lily is trapped and penny Wise is closing in,
and of course, penny Wise plays into her greatest fear,
thanking her for convincing everyone to come down here.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
He's like, hey, guess what. Guess what you did this?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
You bought all of your friends down here, and thanks
for doing it, because now I can kill them all.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
But guess what, guys, Lily's right.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Next to bro the Tannil comet shard a little bit
comet ex Mackinna, and that was We saw.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
A lot of really scary versions of penny Wise, but
him frozen with the teeth like maw giant wide open.
Oh he gave me the he I was like, Lily girl,
I gotta just pissed my pants and said I can't
move like.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I would have probably had an honestly.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Like, he's so close to almost eating her, and I
just feel like I also okay. So that was really scary.
I'm glad Lily's alive. I worry about this shard being
in her hands. Lily, we love you, girl, but you
have not made a lot of wise decisions over the
course of your Pennywise interactions.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
You have also just been proven that you once again
got tricked by penny Wise.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Like emotionally played, I.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Would also say, I I think something I would love
that I would hope happens before the end of this season.
We need an indigenous kid from that community to be
a part of this group.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Agree, Like, there's there's no reason not too.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I love Tangielle, I love the actor who plays Taniel,
but let's bring that age down a bit. I know
there are kids, there was Rose. Let's bring someone in
who knows how to wield it or who at least
understands it, even if it's more in a funny way,
kind of like Ritchie and his bad misunderstanding of you know,
Breweria and stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Like, let's make sure that this isn't like, we don't need.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Lily holding that thing to fight it, Like, I know
who can hold it to fight it, and it's not hers,
and so let's see what happens. But I could imagine
some kind of Tannial Dick Haller and team up. I
feel like that would be interesting. So I want to
see more Taniel. I want to see more of that.
But yes, as we get out of the sewers, we
learn that Hank is hiding out in none other than
(29:44):
Ingrid's car.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Now, this was a huge shock for me.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
He makes her drive away and it's very clear that
this is the married white woman that he has.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Been sitting around with. Bo they try and.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Work out their next move, and this is just so
crazy to me, considering of what we've seen of Ingrid
before and where this is going to.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Go, said.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Dressed, I'm interested. We love a complicated woman. We love
a naked lady who runs around. Okay, you can't have
exploitation us.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
We support old ladies, please put them back on. Back
at the base, Handlon is debriefed about the ARP and
the gen is like, so sorry that when left. Russo
was a great guy, love that, but you know he's dead.
What what about the other side?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Just what happened?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Well, the General's like, well, I'm gonna just prosecute Taniel
and the Native community for abandonism down there, and just
like shut the fuck up first of all, and Lee
Roy is like, I'm just fucking.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Going home and Dick is missing. Now this is the.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Really scary stuff because we end up and we see
Dick wandering around wondering out of that drain pipe.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
He sees russo so we know that it's a vision.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
The open box was crazy. The open box was crazy.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
At the end.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
It really blew my mind because it's like, okay, we know.
Grandma was like, you cannot open that box. Dick was
surprised his grandfather found it. It's something that he buried.
I'm trying to remember the speech from the Shining, but
there's something about like putting things away in a box,
locking it up, and like hiding it. So his grandpa finds.
It's his grandpa who actually crushes the lock and opens it.
And now I'm wondering, is Dick Dick anymore or penny
(31:31):
Wise inside of him the same way we saw him
rifyingly climb out of Maddie.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
I feel like Dick is not okay, though.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
I feel like good is not okay.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
But he is very powerful, and I do feel like
they're setting up kind of a Dick penny Wise it
mental showdown.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
The quote from Dick is he says you can put
things from the overlook away in boxes, but not memories.
They are real. They are the real ghosts. You take
them with you, and so the box thing is like
a metaphor throughout. Also doctor Sleep, you know, it's like
trapping those evil like demons inside your mental like mind box.
(32:10):
It's a thing that does a lot. Also because in
DreamCatcher not a great movie DreamCatcher, he also uses.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
This unless you love farting, Yeah, unless you.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Love farting and all of that. He uses the uh
the mind palace as yack, a sort of.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Very Hannibal lecter.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I think Dick has the power to get through this
and to battle Pennywise, but I am nervous and you
know what to talk about this incredible episode. Thank you
so much, Common and Joel for joining me. This is
maybe my favorite episode.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I think there's so much scariest, so much intrigue, so
much emotion, and yet to talk about this. We are
gonna jump to an interview after this break that me
and Jason were lucky enough to do with Pauly Russo himself.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Rudy Mahews.
Speaker 8 (33:02):
Yeah, guys, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 9 (33:23):
Tell us about your experience filming this extremely gory, scary,
and very fun show. It Welcome to Derry Suck.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Hated every second of it.
Speaker 8 (33:33):
It was uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
They treated me poorly. No, there was nothing short of
the extraordinary.
Speaker 7 (33:41):
You know, as a fan and then also as a
close friend of Andy and Barbara Musquetti, this was one
of the safest and the most interesting and most comfortable
places to rome creatively.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
I am not a full time actor.
Speaker 7 (33:57):
In rare instances, I do some acting, and it's usually
inspired by Andy and Barbara's genius. So as a storyteller,
as a musician, as a filmmaker, and as a fan
of this, this iteration of it, it was a dream
come true.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
I mean, come on, yeah, I was going to ask
you about that specific thing. How do you balance all
those different parts of your creativity and when you're especially
because now you're stepping in from making stuff yourself, being
a self made creator, into a space of there is
forty fifty years of cannon.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So many people love it. You yourself are a fan, Like,
what is that? What was that transitional step like for you.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
Yeah, I see it less as different different umbrellas, and
to me, it's all sort of one big umbrella. Like
my musicality informs how I act and make jokes and
approach dialogue, and the way I direct is very much
much inspired by all of the the years of videos
(35:06):
I made, auditioning some of these ideas, and it's like
kind of all it all comes from the same place,
even though even though they're different departments, it's all one
big hub of creativity. Whether it's acting in something like
this or creating something entirely different, that's that's my own.
They're all sort of woven. And I'm a big Stephen
King fan, A big I'm a big Andy and Barbara
(35:29):
Muschetti fan. Uh, And I got to I got to
experience both in this.
Speaker 9 (35:35):
Tell us about that relationship with the Mischties and and
how that informs your work with them.
Speaker 7 (35:42):
Yeah, I mean they I went from being fans of them,
like I said, to being friends and now you know, family.
I see I talk to Andy every day, Andy and
or Barbara every day. I see him a few times
a week, probably see him tonight fair soccer. I've very
lucky to call them my older brother and sister at
this point, and we creatively respect each other very much
(36:06):
and have almost we made a vow to incorporate each
other in each other's work in some way forever. So
you know, Andy's in my film musica. He put me
in The Flash, he put me in this and now,
and now we have a film, a musical we're developing
together right now.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
So so yeah.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
I think if you're lucky enough to collaborate with your
your friends, people you love and respect and admire, and
also they're talented on top of it, you can create
some really cool things.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Okay, First of all, who's your soccer team?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Seeing as I'm from England and Jason and I both
watch sports.
Speaker 7 (36:42):
I'm bigger Knopoly because of my dad, So that's more
about that. Incredible, Yeah, and then when it comes to soccer, yeah, absolutely,
And when it comes to Brazilian soccer on my mom's side,
it's flam Angle.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I love this. So you've been following all your life.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Then by force?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, well yeah, yeah, yeah, same, I understand. I understand
that deeply.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
When it came to working with Barbara and Andy on this,
how did the collaboration come apart? Was the character of poorly.
Some of you guys were like collaborating on to craft it.
Did they present it to you and say, here's what
the story is going to be.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
What was that process?
Speaker 7 (37:17):
Like, Yeah, so fairly early on, and he was telling
me about the development of Welcome to Darius, it as
a series and the time period that it took place in.
I was compelled in that very moment because it was
always a dream of Andy's but also a dream of
(37:38):
me of mine as a fan, to see this within
the context of the sixties, you know, where the actual
original source takes place, which is a dream to bring
to life. And he told me fairly early like, you know,
there's this character kicking around, I think it would be
really great for you. Because we both agreed it was
sort of an extension of who I really am. I
(38:00):
know this guy, this Italian American, you know, quick witted, reactive, uh.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Napoleon complex, little shit. I know this.
Speaker 7 (38:11):
I know this guy because he's inside of me.
Speaker 9 (38:17):
You mentioned being a fan of Stephen King. Are you
a fan of horror also just the work of Stephen King?
How do you feel about the scary stuff?
Speaker 4 (38:25):
I'm a fan of great storytelling and cinema and TV
and music.
Speaker 7 (38:30):
I'm not necessarily a fan of of of horror as
a genre, but again, like, when what a story is
so compelling and the filmmaking is so uh sophisticated, I'm
in So are my favorite films horror films? No? Mostly
I would say no, but but like and my favorite
(38:51):
Stephen King story that then we're adapted into films aren't
classically horror. Their their chance. They're suspenseful and dramatic. But
like I love stand By Me, I love I love Shawshank, Redemption, I.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
Love Green Mile. I did like it because I thought
it was fucking weird.
Speaker 7 (39:07):
The original TV movies and Courage we were in Strength
and it was like somehow it was like kind of
cool and interesting, quirky and jovial, but then fucking horrific.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
I was like, that's interesting.
Speaker 7 (39:18):
But then I saw twenty sixteen Andy Muschetti's Andy Barber's It,
and I'm watching this thing, and I'm I'm not one
to go watch a horror film in theater, Like I'm
not into the jump scares.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
I know it's part of the language of horror and thriller.
Speaker 7 (39:34):
To have you know, that spring and that sound design
and that creepy music and then the jump scare and
the disturbing image.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
But like, that's not scary to me, that's a little
bit cheesy, that leans that leans cheap to me sometimes personally.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
But then you get every so often you get something
as sophisticated as as it that blends beautiful romantic filmmaking,
classic style of filmmaking with really really horrific and horrifying
set pieces and performances that to me was compelling.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
And I think that and and you know, films like Get.
Speaker 7 (40:11):
Out are have contributed to this resurgence of a respectable
version of elevated horror and thrillers.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah, that's really interesting that you brought up like the
stand By Me and the Green Mile and Shawshank, because
those are very like emotionally tied stories and you really
get to kind of take part in that Stephen King
legacy of like the Kid's Adventure, the kids coming together.
The storylines of this season really converge in the sewers
(40:41):
where you are with Leroy and in this kind of
journey that you guys take on. So could you talk
a little bit about setting up that closeness that just
made all the events that we see in episode five,
Feel Possible, yea.
Speaker 7 (40:56):
You know, Paul is a small character, but an important one,
and that's how it was. It was described to me
very early on. It's like, this isn't a big character,
but like he's going to.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Mean a lot. And uh.
Speaker 7 (41:10):
In order to really warrant that that that this big
sacrificial death, this big set piece that's meant to be
quite significant and moving, we really need to sell the
chemistry between these these two guys who are more than
friends and and and Air Force officers and pilots there
(41:34):
they're brothers. I like to believe that Leroy is all
Paully really has. And you know, you meet this guy,
he's sort of a peripheral character and he says funny ship,
and he's always trying to outsmart the situation or even
get out of the situation, and he's doubting everything.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Not a character you'd expect.
Speaker 7 (41:54):
To jump in front of a bullet, right, and yet
that's exactly who he is underneath all that all the
defense armor. Is this this this this a very caring
person who really really doesn't have a ton to lose
other than Leroy. Whereas Leroy has a family and he's
up against a lot more. And I think in that
(42:16):
moment that's why Poly is so accepting of what he's
just done. It's like, Okay, yeah, I think this is
what it was all about. This is what this is,
what my purpose is.
Speaker 9 (42:25):
It is really such a horror kind of set piece,
the kind of thing that I think fans of it,
whether it's the book or the original miniseries or the
later movies, I would expect to find in some form
of fashion in a story like this tell us about
filming that thats it.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Sucked the war right in the series, it.
Speaker 7 (42:51):
Was so hard not I mean, look, I should be
so lucky to be to be acting with this crew
and these people and being a part of this universe.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
But I'm not going to tell you was comfortable. It's uh,
we're in you know.
Speaker 7 (43:03):
It's like eighteen hours of We had three layers, so
we had a wet suit, and then over the wet suit,
it was another costume.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
Over that costume was another military costume. Many days.
Speaker 7 (43:15):
The thing is, they staggered my shooting. So I go
in for a week and then I leave for a month.
I go in for two weeks, I go in for
two days. This this this episode five. The reshoot, the
one that was used was over the course of three days,
I want to say, and it was like, it's not
that not you know, three days is not that bad.
You know, my fiance shot for eight months out of the.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Year on Riverdale.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I'm a huge fan, so.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
Yeah, yeah, me too, also by force.
Speaker 10 (43:46):
But I.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Should be so lucky, Oh poor me.
Speaker 7 (43:51):
Three days in the sewers of the most iconic one
of the most iconic you know, stories and franchise in
the world.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
But it's not easy. Again, I'm not to it, not
a full time actor. So in this uncomfortable costume.
Speaker 7 (44:03):
They're all period accurate, incredible that they're also very heavy
and dense, and these guns which are real period guns,
not functional, but they're really and you're inside these beautiful,
practical builds. These sewers are yes, we're on a stage,
but they're real.
Speaker 11 (44:17):
It's real water, it's real sewers, uh, highly detailed, and
the whole crew is outside, so it's just me and
and Javon and it's really dark, creepy tunnel.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
So a lot of what you're seeing is is uh
is very is very real and.
Speaker 7 (44:34):
One end incredibly rewarding and surreal to be to be
in there as a fan. On the other end, I was, uh,
we were suffering.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
We were really suffering.
Speaker 10 (44:47):
Yeah, And and and the death moment, that that big
moment was done, like we barely made the day, the
very end of the day, and you have fucking I
gotta get in this disgusting water, and I'm and tired.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
Intents are high. I hadn't eaten in twenty four hours.
Speaker 7 (45:04):
And Andy would stull get at one point in more
blood and more blood.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
There's shoving blood in my.
Speaker 7 (45:09):
Mouth, and then and then Andy at one point he
was like, all right, I guess I'll just do it myself,
and he runs into the set getting all wet, pouring
blood into my mouth.
Speaker 12 (45:19):
I'm like, by the by the time we're rolling, I
hope the performance sold because it was the product of
all these things.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
No, it did, And I think, like it feels so
much heavier because of the entire setup of oh this
is fake. The whole series has been about what can
you believe? What can you not believe? Can you believe
your eyes? And then it's the worst possible version, like
if that had happened, it's not just about saving Will,
It's also about saving Leroy because he's never going to
(45:56):
be able to get over it, and also interesting to
see a man who is never you know, who currently
doesn't feel fear, but dealing and grappling with the emotions
of what would it be like if I lost my wife?
What would I be like if I lost my son? Basically,
just like, how do you balance that it's such a
hugely emotional moment, how do you balance that with the
(46:19):
physical nature of the shoot and worrying that it's a
believable death and all those other things that go through
your head when you are acting with difficulty.
Speaker 7 (46:27):
I mean, it's like, I'm trying my best to think
about what what what this means, what it means for
the character, what it means to the series, but also
what it means to me, what I like about this moment,
and again, within the context and the grand scheme of
(46:47):
this series, it's it's a small moment, but it's an
important one. It's a it's a humanized death.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
It's happened. It's a grounded death.
Speaker 7 (46:56):
This isn't some big supernatural crusom attack by Penny Penny
Wise or or or or the illusion of a monster
or a ghost. It's it's real, it's really happening. And
I like the sort of poetic irony of it, because
you'd expect this man who's desensitized to fear to be
(47:19):
the one to take a bullet, and yet it's the
other way around. And sometimes it's important for fear to
find you so that you can you can react, you
can really feel, and you can really react responsibly. It's
dangerous to be fearless. And Pully is this guy who
(47:40):
who is especially in the Sewers, is consumed by fear
because he doesn't understand. He doesn't fully understand what's happening.
There's apparently these these these this external force that is
tormenting them, but he can't see any of them.
Speaker 4 (47:54):
So how do you? How do you?
Speaker 7 (47:57):
He really wants to believe Leroy because it's only probably
the only person in the world he loves and trusts,
and yet it's so hard to And then in this
moment he does something that actually Leroy is usually the
good one, the one to do this, be analytical and
mathematical and solve a problem. It's like that, wait, wait,
And in this moment, actually Pauli gets gets to be
that guy where he's like Okay, that's his son. If
(48:20):
I see him, then he must be real. And it's
all on a blink of an eye. And then he
jumps in front, and then when he takes that bullet
instead of panicky, I think that's why he accepts it,
because like, Okay, this is I've found my purpose in all.
Speaker 9 (48:34):
This great episode, great show. You were wonderful in it.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
Of course, thank you guys for the cool questions.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Of course, thank you so much for joining us, Rudy,
and thank you guys for listening to our talk about it.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Welcome to Derry episode five. This week on Extra Vision.
We're celebrating the holidays with some short stocking stuff for episodes,
including a fictional food potlock, some very chaotic.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Answers, and a deep dive into what we really want
from adaptations, and some thoughts from me and Aboo on
the new season of The Witcher.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
That's the episode.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Thanks so much for listening, Bye.
Speaker 9 (49:14):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Korfman.
Speaker 8 (49:23):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bai Wag.
Speaker 9 (49:30):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our discord moderator
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.