November 16, 2025 • 36 mins
Jason and Rosie recap the explosive third episode of Pluribus and are then joined by producer Ian to discuss how far the show can push Carol's unlike-ability, grocery store ethics, what the end goal of the assimilation process could be and what's going on with that guy in Paraguay.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning, today's episode can date spoilers for Plurists episode three.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
They're Grenade. Be warned.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and on Merseay Night
and welcome back to extra.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Visions of podcast. Will be divetue to your favorite shows.
Move becomes pot culture call we ye our prodcucts. We're
ready three episodes weekday.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
In today's episode, it's Pluribus episode three, we will be
recapping it and then bringing Ian in to join.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
The combo and a quick production note.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Guys, remember this holiday season we are sharing some stocking
stuffer episodes. With so many great shows, movies and TV
thinger the Jiggy's coming out these next few months. These
episodes will help us cover some extra content we wouldn't
be able to get on our normal episodes, So stay
tuned for our stocking stuffers starting the week Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Okay, episode three The Grenade. We open somewhere very very
very cold.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It is.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
In the past years in the past, two thousand, six
hundred and seventeen days in the past to be to
be exact seven years, thank you, seven years before the
outbreak in one of those ice hotels like in Norway
or Scandinavia, somewhere Caroly and Helen are checking in being
shown to their room, the Koi suite. It is, of course,
(01:31):
very fucking cold. Carol is looking very suspiciously at all
of this and is clearly not sold on the idea
the experience, the whole thing. Helen is couldn't be more enthused.
Is really really blown away, And you know, look at
(01:52):
the ice sculptures, aren't they Maybe the ice sculptures.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Were really quite striking.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
It was very beautiful, and.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know, as the scene goes on, it's very clear
like Carol hates this or is most of the way
to fully hating, while Helen is like, this is so cool,
this is awesome, Like can't you just chill out, Helen.
We learn talk to someone named Val, who we don't
know who she is yet, and learned from Val probably
their publicist or their book editor or you know whoever
(02:18):
their direct connection is with the publisher that Carol's latest
book is on the bestseller list. It's on the New
York Times bestseller list. Where on the list Carol wants,
specifically where top twenty? Well, is it closer to twenty
or is.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
It like more like eleven?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
And Helen doesn't want to specify, but stresses to Carol, like, listen,
you're a bestseller. You can credibly say I'm a best
selling author.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Don't worry about where specifically, look at the northern lights
through this ice skylight and just enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Very clear from this that Carol cannot enjoy anything, and
even before I mean this is to show us like
she is always she even when she was with someone
she loved, she struggled to enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
We'll talk about that more later, because I think that
that this scene shows an acknowledgment of something about Carol
that m hm. Very clearly Vince Gilligan and the creators
and the people writing the show understand. And I'm interested.
It's interested to see the balance they strike me.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
In the present day post hive mind, Carol is flying
somewhere with Zosha. Zosha wonders, well, why don't you want
to stay in first class? We got the whole plane.
Carol is, of course, sat at the back, next to
the toilet, in the worst seat on the plane. Carol
decides the best way to spend this time is to
grill Zosha on all the non English speaking individuals who
(03:44):
are immune to the virus that she has not yet met.
Carol is interested, are they like, is any of them
doctors or scientists? And then there's the guy from Paraguay,
who I feel like is gonna definitely be a massive
part of this story, yes, who they just didn't know
about for thirty six hours and will not pick up
the phone and is not at any point been in
(04:05):
contact with the hive mine.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
So she's like, this seems like we should just try him.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Obviously, Carol decides she's gonna do that, and she's like,
fuck it, and Zosha says, j you want us to
translate you? Nope, She's fine, calls up. Carol speaks bad Spanish,
she calls her hor and hangs up.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
She calls back and.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Is like, fuck your mum, asshole and setting up a
great friendship there.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Clearly.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Carolyn goes to the bathroom tied out. I really did
like this scene. I felt like this is one of
the strongest scenes in the episode because the episode is
all about this vast space that she is now inhabiting
as like one of the only people. Because we don't
really know where other people are unless they are there.
What theyreserve Carol doing like ups is working if Carol
(04:48):
needs it, or the airplane is working if Carol needs it.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
But anyone can do those jobs, so we don't know
where most people are.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So I love this scene where she's just trying to
be in the smallest space possible.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Away from them.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Eventually, you know, Soosha drops her back at the house,
so she gives her her mail. There is a box
and there is a bill with Helen's name on it,
again telling us more about this obviously incredibly close relationship.
And finally she opens the box and it is a
parra gun.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Carol calls Zosha regarding the box, and I was like,
what's up with this box? What's up with the thera gun?
And this the theragun is from a conversation that she
had with Helen before the end of tour, basically saying, oh,
I love that thing, and you know.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
They tried it out and like it.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
They tried it out, Yeah, but Helen didn't get a
chance to order it for her and had intended to.
And so now the hive mind has done it for Helen,
who is part of them, right. Carol flips out but
manages to keep it you know, below the level of
fritzing out the entire hive mind. And she's like, listen,
I order you delete everything you know about Helen. Don't
(06:03):
stop using Helen's thoughts and memories to do anything for me.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I don't want that.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
She takes a bunch of pills. She's watching The Golden
Girls when the doorbell rings and it's a room service
platter brought by the hive mind. Carol is mad about it,
feeling like she does want to be infantalized by this
highlind Right.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
She calls Zosha A Zosha says, do you recognize it?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
It's like the same meal that you guys had at
this bed and breakfast in Provincetown from a specific memory
of you and Helen on vacation in Provincetown. And again
Carol's upset. It is like, didn't I tell you to
stop using Helen's memories? Did I tell you that? And
she's like, listen, leave me alone, and then.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
She throws up the room service.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
We're going to take a quick break and we'll be
right back as we continue.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
To cover her purpose.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
And we're back.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So now Helen needs dinner because she threw out the
room service. So she goes to Sprouts, but the place
is like stripped, totally gone, stripped.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Bear everything's there that needs to be there to run
a Sprouts, but there are no products products they want,
no fruit, no produce, nothing.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So she calls Zosha's like, Zosh, what the fuck is
up at this? And she said, well, you know, like
obviously the world runs differently now, right, and so we've
kind of centralized our food supplies for more efficient distribution
across the country. And Carol's like, well, fuck that shit.
Open my fucking sprouts, man, open it up. Like when
(07:45):
should I come back in two days or like a day.
She's in the store making this call on the landline.
It's like, so when should I come back, like next week?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Two days?
Speaker 5 (07:52):
What?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And Soosha's like, no, no, no, we're coming now.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
She goes outside and the trucks are pulling up right then.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Mm hmmm, crazy stuff And we see the whole store
go from empty to set up in about twenty minutes.
Then Carol goes shopping and returns time to watch Golden Girls.
I do have to make quick just brief commentary here, guys.
I would never be upset about people giving me free groceries.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
I think she's too upset about it.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
I'm like, if I could have my own sprouts and
they set it up for twenty minutes, I would at
least have a tiny wonder in my eye. And I
do think this is an issue that we are going
to have going on with this show unless we learn
some more about Carol, and we'll talk about that more.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
But yees specifically, like this is actually miraculous. It's not good.
It's still creepy.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
They're doing it because they're a high mind, but like,
who doesn't want free food? It's inflation, guys. She doesn't
look like she's been doing great, Like I feel like
she would be a little bit more excited about being
able to eat. But yeah, she goes home, watches Golden
Girls with her many groceries, and then her lights go out,
and this is very interesting because she looks outside and
then all the other lights are out.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Then her lights go back on, but it's just lights.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
And you're starting to get more of a feeling now
that they need the electricity for something, like what is
their plan?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
It seems like maybe they want our resources.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Zosia calls anyway, before we can get too into our
theories or Carol can and she's like, hey, it was
a mistake.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Turned off your lights. The conservation.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Everyone's lights will be on in like a staggered pattern,
except for yours. Your power will be on whenever you
want it. And is there anything that can make you happy?
Like what can we do? That's all we care about.
And Carol has a simple answer, because she's an angry woman.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
She says, a hand grenade.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Okay, she's drink or drink or drink, you take your pills,
puts golden girls back on, and of course thinks there
will never be a hand grenade.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
She was being.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Sarcasticck Sosha's car pulls up and she's got the grenade.
She brought it, even though she was like we well,
we weren't sure if you were serious, but you did
ask for us, so we brought it. So Carol invites
Soshian for a drink and she wants to know, like, okay,
like if you get drunk the hive mind get drunk,
how does that work? AND's like no, no, no, don't worry
(10:03):
about that. Carol by bye, by the way, at this
point is surely blasted. She's been throwing them back for pails.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
She's crossed.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It's not good.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And Zosha's like dropping crazy fun facts like a vodka
and spirits, like did you know vodka is actually a
shortened version for.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
The word for water in She's just dropping crazy, crazy,
crazy cool.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Wikipedia friend to have Zosia and the like I get it.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
So Carol wants to know how long she's got before
the hive mind figures out how to assimilate her, and
she's like, well, it could be could be as short
as weeks, and could be as long as many months.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
You know, we don't.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, we're working.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
On it around the clock, but clearly they're stumped. And
Carol's like, yeah, but I don't want to be part
of the hive mind, Like can't we just get that
through our heads?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Like I don't want it, And so.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
She's like, listen, I feel really bad about that, and
I acknowledge your resistance and you're the fact that you
object to this, but we do have a biological imperative,
like we actually genetically can't not.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Do that's what we do, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So Zosha argues that Carol needs this essentially like listen,
you're doing terribly, like you're depressed, you're sad time you're
doing pills. You don't know how to deal with your
negative emotions, your trauma, your depression. That was the case
before all of this, and it's certainly the case even
more now. By assimilating you, we'll be saving you, like
(11:44):
we'll be saving you and the best parts of you
from being destroyed by the worst parts of you. Carol
is you know, of course she's like angry and drunken
on pills, and so it's hard for her to receive
this information from a hive mind. Also, like what's your
You've just mentioned you have a by illogical imperative to
assimilate me, so it's not like you're gonna be unbiased
about this. And she begins monologue and Carol does about
(12:08):
like all the places that she's experienced in her life
that you know, and she talks about the Ice Hotel
and Zosha finishes off, Oh yes, the Ice Hotel. The memory,
and Carol like flips and she's like, I told you
Helen's memories off limits. Stop doing that, and she gets
really mad. She picks up the grenade, she pulls up
pin oh, and like.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
This is She's like, that's oh sorry, no, no, no,
It's just really funny because after she fiddles with the grenade,
Zosh's like what they all wait a second, and Carol's pissed,
like they gave her a fake grenade.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
But Carol just doesn't know how grenade works. So then
Zosha jumps up, grabs it, throws out the window. It
fucking explodes the whole front of her house. We get
very breaking bad esque scene of this kind of mansion
space in Albuquerque that's like on fire and the cars
are on fire, and Carol like wanders out and shock.
Zosha tries to follow her, but we see that her
(13:00):
back is all fucked up from the shrapnel. I will
say Carol actually does seem like she is upset and
cares about this. In the moment she covers Zosha's back
she tries to stop the bleeding. It's one of the
first moments we really get her to see Carol being
like an emotional kind of human being with connections. Carol then,
(13:21):
you know, finds out luckily that Zosha is fine. She
does have a concussion, which could interestingly bring some some
theories into the conversation. When we bring an ian in
a minute and via a handy delivery driver. Carol asks like,
why did you give me the hand grenade? And she
is kind of shocked to learn from this conversation that
(13:43):
as long as she says it will make her happy,
they will just give her whatever weapon she wants. They
will give her a gun, they will give her a tank,
they will give her a bazuka, they will give her
whatever goes in a berzukra and has shot out a missile.
She asks like, and she even asks if they will
give her a nuke, and although they don't want to
give it to her, they essentially admit that, yeah, we'll
(14:05):
bring you a new if you need one.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Which also which you know how to even set it off?
I don't know. But basically, after what seems to be
a pretty slow.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Very small in scope episode, you get this huge explosion
and then this realization from Carol that I'm guessing she
can become essentially like a warlord and just take them down.
That seems like what she wants to do, but also
seems like it would be a huge jump. But I'm
interested to see where this goes once again, and an
intriguing end.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Very intriguing.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Let's take a quick break and welcome in and then
discuss this episode, and we are back. We're talking about
episode three of Plour of Us. Let's now bring in
(14:56):
super producer Ian to discuss this episode.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Hello, how's it go?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
What do you think of this episode?
Speaker 6 (15:04):
I like the episode overall. It's not as not as
spicy as the first two episodes, but I mean, I
think by nature, the first two episodes were so insane
and fantastical, especially just setting up the whole premise that
this next episode was gonna be kind of maybe pumping
the brakes a little bit. But I think that still
had some really great moments and raise some interesting questions,
(15:26):
like the sprout scene, that whole montage where they the
trucks come in and they restock the store and you
get to see like the peak like coordination and efficiency
of the hive mind. Like, I thought that was a
really fantastic sequence and scene. And I think the flashback
at the beginning and the Ice Hotel gives us a
little bit more insight into Carol as a person a character. Yeah,
(15:48):
you know, she's always been like this, so there's there's
something about her that I think maybe, you know, the
reason that she might be immune may have something to
do with you know her having like this even from
the beginning. Maybe we'll learn more about that as the
show goes on.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I like that.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I think that that's true.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I would also see in something I thought was really
cool that you noted was the way that when Helen died,
she essentially loses any connection to anyone else in her
life before the virus. I also wonder if that's part
of it.
Speaker 6 (16:20):
Right, because all the other survivors have their family members
or someone that they care about to still tether them to,
you know, what life was like before the virus, and
that they obviously still care about those people they don't
want anything bad to happen to them. But Carol doesn't
have anyone.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
So they'll go along with it exactly.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
But she doesn't really have anything to make her think like, oh,
there's there's some positive to this, you know. But I
also do think it's interesting that clearly she is starting
to form some kind of attachment to Zosha. Clearly cares
about her well being to some degree, Like when she
got her, she tried to help her and save her.
She wanted her to come with her instead of going
(16:58):
on to Air Force One. She even invites her in
a drink with her, like you know, so she's there
is some kind of bond or connection there, So it'll
be interesting to see how that continues to develop. But yeah,
what did you guys think about the episode?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
It raised some issues.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I liked this episode, although I think there are some issues.
I think for me, the cold open is interesting literally
cold actually physically cold open because it it it sets
up the thesis of the show in a really interesting way,
which is like, okay, the everything at your fingertips, but
(17:32):
you're the our hero is like can literally can't be
happy with anything. She can't be happy on vacation with
the person she loves staring at the northern lights. She
can't be happy when she's on the bestseller list because
she's not number one on the best seller list.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Right, nothing is going to make.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Her feel as if she's worthy enough, she's good enough,
what she's doing is enough, and so of course you're
not gonna be happy with this. That said, there were
multiple times during this episode, and that happened in the
previous episodes to where I'm like, man, you're not going
to solve this shit overnight.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Like chill out, you know, like have a little bit
more realism.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Enjoy it a little bit like yeah, I'm not saying
you need to get a harem, you know what I yeah, yeah, yeah,
but you know, like whatever, enjoy it, like go see.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Go to a spa like relax it.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Doesn't go call in one of the hive mind and
be like tell me what everything that we knew about
at UFOs, like do fun stuff?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
You know actual.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
You know what conspiracies are true or not?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Everyone has that stuff.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
People have a bat. Yeah, all of that.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Stuff is at your fingertips. And again, you're not going
to fix the world overnight, so don't try to. And
I do wonder, if I do wonder how this show
will strike the balance of centering a character that is
kind of like unlikable, is it irascable?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Is frustrating? Is like not ever going to be be
happy with things? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
That was also the success of Breaking Bad, right, so
we get why he's back here again, you know, but
I definitely did have a similar feeling to Jason. I
also spoke to some friends who are just kind of,
you know, average like TV watchers, who wanted to check it,
and they liked it and they were intrigued, but even
by the second episode, they were finding Carol a little
bit hard to like to follow or root for or
(19:31):
kind of even understand.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Like what her motives are.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
You know, I'm doing a screenwriting class right now. We
talk a lot about the what, like what is her want? Like,
I don't know what it is, but I'm guessing it's
going to be to destroy the high mind, very traditional,
classical sife I want. So I'm down, but I do
feel like maybe this is a bit of an extreme
shift for people who are not, you know, already fully
(19:58):
sold because it's a really quiet episode. I also don't
know if for me the writing is up to that
one hundred percent quality that I need if I'm in
like a bottle episode with just two people, you know,
I feel like it wasn't fully there, But I do
still I'm very interested. I want to know more about this.
(20:19):
I also did think on a rewatch this morning, I
was really feeling this notion of like this kind of
is about We've talked a lot about algorithms and kind
of this idea of complacency and comfort and how that
can take away your initiative or even just your enjoyment
of like you know that famous letter where it's the it's.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
It's one of those iconic, you know, old guy authors
like William Burrows or someone like that, but not the
one who killed his wife, but one of those guys
I'm talking about, Like.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Oh, I.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Love going to buy stamps because I go out and
when I buy stamps, I meet a person who is
at the shop and I get to speak to someone
and I pick up a treat on the way home.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
This is about how algorithms.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
And the notion of like ease can take that away
from you. But I felt like this episode had a
really interesting thing to say about basically right now, what
Carol is dealing with is like if somebody you know
dies and then your phone is constantly serving up those
weird movies with emotional music behind them, and they're like
best summer of your life, but it's like the year
(21:29):
they died or something like. She's kind of living through
that experience of they're trying to please her and understand
how to connect with her emotionally, but it's just not working.
I thought that was pretty cool thematic thread through this episode.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I will also say that I felt as if, obviously
the show the themes and the kind of ideas that
this show is grappling with really interesting you know, whether it's.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
AI, the way AI has.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Influenced our daily lives, the way we shop, the way
we ask questions, the kind of instant, teneous gratification of
like the Amazon economy. If I can get something right
away that whatever you want, you can get it. I'll
just can see, Yeah, I can see a movie, I
can get a product, I can watch more like whatever
(22:14):
it is exactly. And this was the first episode where
I was like, Okay, I know it's about that, but
we know, like you're making it too obviously that it's
about that from and I will be interested to see
how they balance it. That said, now, some interesting mysteries
I think were kind of sprinkled throughout, one being this gentleman,
(22:35):
this Paraguay gentleman. Oh sorry, were you going to say something.
Speaker 6 (22:38):
In yeah, just to kind of piggyback off of what
Rosie was saying before we move on. You know about
Carol being increasingly unlikable as the series goes on, which
I think we'll learn more about why that happens. But
I think going back to that sprout scene, I understand
her defiance of like not wanting to eat the food,
and she wants to shop for herself and stop making
(23:00):
dishes from my memories. Which is funny that even though
she's like stop thinking about Helen and her memories, they
still have the memories of every other person she's ever
interacted with, so like, oh, we know your coffee order
because we know the barista's memories and we remember you
love this breakfast and whatever. So it's like, no matter what,
she can't escape from it. But I feel like when
I was watching that Sprout scene where she was like,
(23:21):
I want my sprouts back. I just want to shop
for myself. I was like, low key, you're being like
kind of selfish, straightness.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Sanely selfish, and I think.
Speaker 6 (23:29):
You're gonna have them stock this entire store for you
just to like buy some like frozen dinners. Because when
it cuts back to her eating, she just had like
a TV dinner. She'd even like make her food.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
And to your point, it's like the food is packaged
out of your site, is harvested out of your site.
The idea that like somehow because you are making it
at home, you frosting it at home. Yeah, this guards
you from whatever virus is out there.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yeah, Also, they she should cook the she should eat
the cook food they cook for Aaron.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
This is one of his biggest takes away.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
And I agree because like she's drinking the water at
any point, if they wanted to do this non consensually
to they could of and they're trying to. But like,
eating the food from them that they cook for you
is no different than eating the nasty prepackaged meal that
they could have injected food, like something into. And I
do agree with you, Ian, like why couldn't she just
(24:27):
have been like, hey, can you bring me a bag
of groceries?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Like I get it, aliens have taken over her whole planet.
But yeah, she's a She's definitely, I think he.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I think Vince would probably loved tar Us having this
conversation because I'm sure him and Re talked consistently about
like how far can you push like an unlikable woman
on TV and.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
In a story like this.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
But yeah, I definitely I need to know more. I
need to know the one. I need to know something.
Speaker 6 (24:52):
If you think about it, this whole scenario is essentially
like her personal hell. She's already like the most like cantankerous,
angry person, and then she realizes, like, I can't be angry,
I'm gonna kill a bunch of people, So she has
to like keep her shit under wraps. And it's like
this is literally like her personal help.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
I like that read.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So she's having to be unselfish in some ways, but
the selfishness is still there. I mean, yeah, she needs
to start thinking about these people, and I'm hoping she
will post the grenade with Zosha. She needs to start
realizing those are still human beings in like human bodies
at least, you know, whatever hive mind situation there is,
and she is essentially currently using them as servants.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
You know, let's start there. And yeah, it's not.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
Especially if she's trying to save them from the high mind.
It's like they're gonna be regular people again after that.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Isn't that the point?
Speaker 6 (25:45):
Isn't that the point? So, like what.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I wonder if the art is gonna be in its
own way after this conversation, a relatively simple one, which
is simply like that journey of going from I want
to destroy everything to realizing like, oh maybe there's some
stuff I shouldn't destroy, you know, which I think for
angry people is a really and people have sort of
struggled with severe depression like I have, like the feeling
(26:08):
of hopelessness and the void and there's no one out
there for you. It can be changed simply by just
like having a nice cup of tea with your friends
and you're like, ah, life's worth living again. I wish
I fucking had left my house six months before this
or whatever. And I think I would love to see
her go on that journey. We don't expect Carol to
become like the world's nicest person, that's not the point.
But I would love to see her have some kind
(26:30):
of personal growth on this journey.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
For sure. That must happen, right, because I do think
this very clearly. The show is asking you to be
critical of her, you know, it's showing you moments from
her life where she just can't be She can't She's mean.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
To the people who read her books.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
She's so them.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
She doesn't respect herself.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Even like the sprouts thing is.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So Boomerish in it's like in the way that she's
clinging to this idea that she could somehow.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Isolate herself from the virus by.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
And ignore all this bad stuff that's happening to other
people if she can keep her normal life going.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
That's actually pretty deep.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
So.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
She must.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
All of which is to say there there will be
some personal growth because there she's gonna learn how to
how to use the mechanisms of the Hive Mind in
a way that will will better allow her to fulfill
I guess some sort of vision that is to free
people from this.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
I think, actually, you guys are sparking something in my
head where I think part of what we're seeing right
now is her inability to enjoy it and her inability
to have somebody they can bribe her with, like, oh,
your family's already here, Helen's already here. That doesn't work.
She knows she saw Helen die. It's gonna be harder
for them to find a way to get her to
do it. So I think that is going to also
(27:55):
be like the growth is by the end, does she
have someone in her life that she would be willing
to join the Hive Mind four, which gives out even
more reason to fight for them to do.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
I think there's also.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
There's an interesting thing here of it's not the show
is not inviting you to ask Carol to surrender, but
it's also for me asking you to wonder if, like
what odds, at what odds are a battle worth fighting?
(28:27):
Like the entire world is this way? Okay, you don't
like it, it's wrong on probably several different levels. But everybody,
literally everybody who is alive, is part of this and
agrees with what's going on. So do you care about
their opinion or do you care about yours? How much
can you change a world that you don't agree with?
(28:49):
And how much should you try and change a world
that you don't agree with? I think all those things
are really interesting. Yeah, let's talk about because I do
think that the show gives us, like a breadcrumb that
it might be possible with this guy from Paraguay.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
That's definitely well.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I think the fact that it took them thirty six
hours to find him leads you to believe that maybe
he was under the influence of the hive mind but
got out of it somehow, and got out of it
in a way that is so quirky, weird and uncommon
that only one this only happened once. Like, it's not
(29:27):
like a Felon hit, because if it was the zosia
thing with a concussion that could bring you out of it,
how many people in the world probably had concussion from
just like four when it had Yeah, yeah, five hundred million,
right it like, so there should be a lot of
a lot of people if it was that. So it's
got to be such a weird set of circumstances that
allowed him to escape.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And I can't.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Wait to because we literally have no information, but I
feel like it must be that. What is your thoughts
about this guy and what it portends for the story?
Speaker 6 (29:58):
Well, based on that phone call, we can tell he's
also kind of like an angry, cantankerous son of a bitch,
So I do think there is something to that thread
where like all the people that immune, there's some character
trait or something about them that predisposes them to being immune.
So I think we can tell from the phone call
he's skeptical, doesn't want anything to do with the hive mind,
(30:19):
he's an angry son of a bitch, So I think
there's gonna be something there with that.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Ian yes to push back, I thought about that too,
but like, how many cantankerists, angry niche people that you
can't satisfy are there, Like it's gotta be even.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
More's be something deeper than that.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, yeah, so interested in what it is because I
do think the Paraguay guy is the wrinkle I'm living
for right now, because I do think he could be
a NASA librarian or archivist who's kind of had always
thought about something like this, or he could be a prepper,
or he could be a conspiracy theorist, or he could
(30:56):
just be someone who's a survivalist. He could be a
homeless guy, and that's why they could find him, because
he's not like easily, he doesn't have a lot of
interconnected personal you know, ways that people can remember.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Him or recall him. So I'm I'm most interested for that.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
I would love for episode four to be focused on him,
or at least give us a little bit more insight there,
because I can imagine it's probably gonna be an interesting
casting and they'll probably drop him near the end of
the season, but I would like to know more about
that sooner rather than later.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I think it's got Yeah, it's gotta be like genetically
predisposed to being immune, plus some fluky weird set of
He was tying his shoe while eating bubble while chewing
bubble gum while thinking about this, while like touching his
eye with his like pinky finger, and some weird, very
(31:48):
very rare fluky combination of all those things allowed him
to like snap out of it. And we're gonna that,
I'm guessing is gonna be careful.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
I'm very how did you do it?
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Like?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
What happened? Do you remember what happens?
Speaker 5 (32:01):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (32:01):
That makes so much sense.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
And then together they're trying to work out how they
can snap people out of it.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
That's going to be really interesting.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
And how much of it are they going to be
able to get done in season one because they already
approved season two?
Speaker 4 (32:12):
True?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
So how many you'll go ahead?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Anything good?
Speaker 6 (32:20):
I think. Another interesting thing to that we kind of
briefly touched on, but I want to talk about a
little bit more, is you know this compulsion that the
high mind has to assimilate everyone. They keep saying it's
it's a biological directive. We like have to do it,
We're compelled to do it. And even though Carol's like,
but you say, my life is my own, you know,
but how long? And once you figure it out? Like
(32:42):
what then you know?
Speaker 5 (32:44):
So?
Speaker 6 (32:44):
And and that drowning metaphor that Zosha used, I think
is really interesting because from their perspective, it's almost like
an act of compassion, like we're trying to help you,
We're trying to save you, Like why wouldn't you want
to be a part of this? But it still has
that sinister undertone of like gonna get this work no
matter what. So it's like I just yeah, how they
balance that will be interesting to see, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Well, I think the biggest thing is is like, there's
so it's such, it's an it's a fantastically simple, out
there concept.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
But now we're already three episodes. We're only three episodes.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
In, and I already need to know more about law.
I need to know more about how it happens. I
need to know more about what is driving people. I
need to know either I either need to know what's
driving the Hive Mind or what striving But either way,
what's the want? And yeah, and I'm I'm unclear, but
I'm still vibing.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Do we have any theories about the end goal of
the Hive Mind?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I have one. Here's my is this is there is a.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Uh, some sort of being. Maybe it's like a supercomputer, right,
some kind of space super AI that was built by
other creatures.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Or whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Oh yeah, like a supreme intelligence or some kind of thing,
an alien something. And the way it reproduces is by
seating this RNA virus to other biological so that they can,
as one mass harness a planet's entire like resource tree
(34:17):
to build another one to make another one that and
then it bursts another baby super computer and then it
keeps spreading like fantastic.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Honestly, that would be such a brilliant way.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
But I feel like we'll never find out.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
I feel like I feel like it's gonna be one
of those where Vince is gonna never really tell us
what is behind all this.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Do you have a theory in.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
I mean, I was thinking something similar, you know. I think, yeah,
once everyone is fully assimilated, they're just gonna, like you said,
use all the resource on the planet to continue spreading
this virus from world to world to what end. I'm
still kind of unsure what like they could possibly want
with that, but yeah, I was thinking something similar. I'd
be very curious to see, like, yeah, like once everyone
is assimilar, like then what you know, because they.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Use them to terraform the planet so that other aliens
can come. Jason, I like your idea where it's more
about just creating entire planets of people to just build
more supercomputers that have this, you know, ability to run
because we know how much water and memory and energy
they take. So I think, I think that's a really
cool and I think it's gonna be hard to top that.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Well, a very fun show to talk about. I can't
wait to keep watching it. Coming up on the next
episode of x ra Vision, we're diving into it Welcome
to Dairy, episode four recapping Stranger Things season four two
shows that if you like one, you'll probably like the other.
And then we're off to see the Wizard with our
Wicked for Good, the sequel to Wicked coming out soon,
(35:43):
our coverage of Wicked for Good. That's it for this episode.
Thanks for listening, Bye bye. X ray Vision is hosted
by Jason SEPs Young and Rosie Knight and is a
production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Our executive producers are just Al Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan, and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Heidi our discord moderator,
Warning, today's episode can date spoilers for Plurists episode three.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
They're Grenade. Be warned.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and on Merseay Night
and welcome back to extra.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Visions of podcast. Will be divetue to your favorite shows.
Move becomes pot culture call we ye our prodcucts. We're
ready three episodes weekday.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
In today's episode, it's Pluribus episode three, we will be
recapping it and then bringing Ian in to join.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
The combo and a quick production note.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Guys, remember this holiday season we are sharing some stocking
stuffer episodes. With so many great shows, movies and TV
thinger the Jiggy's coming out these next few months. These
episodes will help us cover some extra content we wouldn't
be able to get on our normal episodes, So stay
tuned for our stocking stuffers starting the week Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Okay, episode three The Grenade. We open somewhere very very
very cold.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It is.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
In the past years in the past, two thousand, six
hundred and seventeen days in the past to be to
be exact seven years, thank you, seven years before the
outbreak in one of those ice hotels like in Norway
or Scandinavia, somewhere Caroly and Helen are checking in being
shown to their room, the Koi suite. It is, of course,
(01:31):
very fucking cold. Carol is looking very suspiciously at all
of this and is clearly not sold on the idea
the experience, the whole thing. Helen is couldn't be more enthused.
Is really really blown away, And you know, look at
(01:52):
the ice sculptures, aren't they Maybe the ice sculptures.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Were really quite striking.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
It was very beautiful, and.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know, as the scene goes on, it's very clear
like Carol hates this or is most of the way
to fully hating, while Helen is like, this is so cool,
this is awesome, Like can't you just chill out, Helen.
We learn talk to someone named Val, who we don't
know who she is yet, and learned from Val probably
their publicist or their book editor or you know whoever
(02:18):
their direct connection is with the publisher that Carol's latest
book is on the bestseller list. It's on the New
York Times bestseller list. Where on the list Carol wants,
specifically where top twenty? Well, is it closer to twenty
or is.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
It like more like eleven?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
And Helen doesn't want to specify, but stresses to Carol, like, listen,
you're a bestseller. You can credibly say I'm a best
selling author.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Don't worry about where specifically, look at the northern lights
through this ice skylight and just enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Very clear from this that Carol cannot enjoy anything, and
even before I mean this is to show us like
she is always she even when she was with someone
she loved, she struggled to enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
We'll talk about that more later, because I think that
that this scene shows an acknowledgment of something about Carol
that m hm. Very clearly Vince Gilligan and the creators
and the people writing the show understand. And I'm interested.
It's interested to see the balance they strike me.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
In the present day post hive mind, Carol is flying
somewhere with Zosha. Zosha wonders, well, why don't you want
to stay in first class? We got the whole plane.
Carol is, of course, sat at the back, next to
the toilet, in the worst seat on the plane. Carol
decides the best way to spend this time is to
grill Zosha on all the non English speaking individuals who
(03:44):
are immune to the virus that she has not yet met.
Carol is interested, are they like, is any of them
doctors or scientists? And then there's the guy from Paraguay,
who I feel like is gonna definitely be a massive
part of this story, yes, who they just didn't know
about for thirty six hours and will not pick up
the phone and is not at any point been in
(04:05):
contact with the hive mine.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
So she's like, this seems like we should just try him.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Obviously, Carol decides she's gonna do that, and she's like,
fuck it, and Zosha says, j you want us to
translate you? Nope, She's fine, calls up. Carol speaks bad Spanish,
she calls her hor and hangs up.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
She calls back and.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Is like, fuck your mum, asshole and setting up a
great friendship there.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Clearly.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Carolyn goes to the bathroom tied out. I really did
like this scene. I felt like this is one of
the strongest scenes in the episode because the episode is
all about this vast space that she is now inhabiting
as like one of the only people. Because we don't
really know where other people are unless they are there.
What theyreserve Carol doing like ups is working if Carol
(04:48):
needs it, or the airplane is working if Carol needs it.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
But anyone can do those jobs, so we don't know
where most people are.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So I love this scene where she's just trying to
be in the smallest space possible.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Away from them.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Eventually, you know, Soosha drops her back at the house,
so she gives her her mail. There is a box
and there is a bill with Helen's name on it,
again telling us more about this obviously incredibly close relationship.
And finally she opens the box and it is a
parra gun.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Carol calls Zosha regarding the box, and I was like,
what's up with this box? What's up with the thera gun?
And this the theragun is from a conversation that she
had with Helen before the end of tour, basically saying, oh,
I love that thing, and you know.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
They tried it out and like it.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
They tried it out, Yeah, but Helen didn't get a
chance to order it for her and had intended to.
And so now the hive mind has done it for Helen,
who is part of them, right. Carol flips out but
manages to keep it you know, below the level of
fritzing out the entire hive mind. And she's like, listen,
I order you delete everything you know about Helen. Don't
(06:03):
stop using Helen's thoughts and memories to do anything for me.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I don't want that.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
She takes a bunch of pills. She's watching The Golden
Girls when the doorbell rings and it's a room service
platter brought by the hive mind. Carol is mad about it,
feeling like she does want to be infantalized by this
highlind Right.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
She calls Zosha A Zosha says, do you recognize it?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
It's like the same meal that you guys had at
this bed and breakfast in Provincetown from a specific memory
of you and Helen on vacation in Provincetown. And again
Carol's upset. It is like, didn't I tell you to
stop using Helen's memories? Did I tell you that? And
she's like, listen, leave me alone, and then.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
She throws up the room service.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
We're going to take a quick break and we'll be
right back as we continue.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
To cover her purpose.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
And we're back.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So now Helen needs dinner because she threw out the
room service. So she goes to Sprouts, but the place
is like stripped, totally gone, stripped.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Bear everything's there that needs to be there to run
a Sprouts, but there are no products products they want,
no fruit, no produce, nothing.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So she calls Zosha's like, Zosh, what the fuck is
up at this? And she said, well, you know, like
obviously the world runs differently now, right, and so we've
kind of centralized our food supplies for more efficient distribution
across the country. And Carol's like, well, fuck that shit.
Open my fucking sprouts, man, open it up. Like when
(07:45):
should I come back in two days or like a day.
She's in the store making this call on the landline.
It's like, so when should I come back, like next week?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Two days?
Speaker 5 (07:52):
What?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And Soosha's like, no, no, no, we're coming now.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
She goes outside and the trucks are pulling up right then.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Mm hmmm, crazy stuff And we see the whole store
go from empty to set up in about twenty minutes.
Then Carol goes shopping and returns time to watch Golden Girls.
I do have to make quick just brief commentary here, guys.
I would never be upset about people giving me free groceries.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
I think she's too upset about it.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
I'm like, if I could have my own sprouts and
they set it up for twenty minutes, I would at
least have a tiny wonder in my eye. And I
do think this is an issue that we are going
to have going on with this show unless we learn
some more about Carol, and we'll talk about that more.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
But yees specifically, like this is actually miraculous. It's not good.
It's still creepy.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
They're doing it because they're a high mind, but like,
who doesn't want free food? It's inflation, guys. She doesn't
look like she's been doing great, Like I feel like
she would be a little bit more excited about being
able to eat. But yeah, she goes home, watches Golden
Girls with her many groceries, and then her lights go out,
and this is very interesting because she looks outside and
then all the other lights are out.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Then her lights go back on, but it's just lights.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
And you're starting to get more of a feeling now
that they need the electricity for something, like what is
their plan?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
It seems like maybe they want our resources.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Zosia calls anyway, before we can get too into our
theories or Carol can and she's like, hey, it was
a mistake.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Turned off your lights. The conservation.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Everyone's lights will be on in like a staggered pattern,
except for yours. Your power will be on whenever you
want it. And is there anything that can make you happy?
Like what can we do? That's all we care about.
And Carol has a simple answer, because she's an angry woman.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
She says, a hand grenade.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Okay, she's drink or drink or drink, you take your pills,
puts golden girls back on, and of course thinks there
will never be a hand grenade.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
She was being.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Sarcasticck Sosha's car pulls up and she's got the grenade.
She brought it, even though she was like we well,
we weren't sure if you were serious, but you did
ask for us, so we brought it. So Carol invites
Soshian for a drink and she wants to know, like, okay,
like if you get drunk the hive mind get drunk,
how does that work? AND's like no, no, no, don't worry
(10:03):
about that. Carol by bye, by the way, at this
point is surely blasted. She's been throwing them back for pails.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
She's crossed.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It's not good.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And Zosha's like dropping crazy fun facts like a vodka
and spirits, like did you know vodka is actually a
shortened version for.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
The word for water in She's just dropping crazy, crazy,
crazy cool.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Wikipedia friend to have Zosia and the like I get it.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
So Carol wants to know how long she's got before
the hive mind figures out how to assimilate her, and
she's like, well, it could be could be as short
as weeks, and could be as long as many months.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
You know, we don't.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, we're working.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
On it around the clock, but clearly they're stumped. And
Carol's like, yeah, but I don't want to be part
of the hive mind, Like can't we just get that
through our heads?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Like I don't want it, And so.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
She's like, listen, I feel really bad about that, and
I acknowledge your resistance and you're the fact that you
object to this, but we do have a biological imperative,
like we actually genetically can't not.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Do that's what we do, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So Zosha argues that Carol needs this essentially like listen,
you're doing terribly, like you're depressed, you're sad time you're
doing pills. You don't know how to deal with your
negative emotions, your trauma, your depression. That was the case
before all of this, and it's certainly the case even
more now. By assimilating you, we'll be saving you, like
(11:44):
we'll be saving you and the best parts of you
from being destroyed by the worst parts of you. Carol
is you know, of course she's like angry and drunken
on pills, and so it's hard for her to receive
this information from a hive mind. Also, like what's your
You've just mentioned you have a by illogical imperative to
assimilate me, so it's not like you're gonna be unbiased
about this. And she begins monologue and Carol does about
(12:08):
like all the places that she's experienced in her life
that you know, and she talks about the Ice Hotel
and Zosha finishes off, Oh yes, the Ice Hotel. The memory,
and Carol like flips and she's like, I told you
Helen's memories off limits. Stop doing that, and she gets
really mad. She picks up the grenade, she pulls up
pin oh, and like.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
This is She's like, that's oh sorry, no, no, no,
It's just really funny because after she fiddles with the grenade,
Zosh's like what they all wait a second, and Carol's pissed,
like they gave her a fake grenade.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
But Carol just doesn't know how grenade works. So then
Zosha jumps up, grabs it, throws out the window. It
fucking explodes the whole front of her house. We get
very breaking bad esque scene of this kind of mansion
space in Albuquerque that's like on fire and the cars
are on fire, and Carol like wanders out and shock.
Zosha tries to follow her, but we see that her
(13:00):
back is all fucked up from the shrapnel. I will
say Carol actually does seem like she is upset and
cares about this. In the moment she covers Zosha's back
she tries to stop the bleeding. It's one of the
first moments we really get her to see Carol being
like an emotional kind of human being with connections. Carol then,
(13:21):
you know, finds out luckily that Zosha is fine. She
does have a concussion, which could interestingly bring some some
theories into the conversation. When we bring an ian in
a minute and via a handy delivery driver. Carol asks like,
why did you give me the hand grenade? And she
is kind of shocked to learn from this conversation that
(13:43):
as long as she says it will make her happy,
they will just give her whatever weapon she wants. They
will give her a gun, they will give her a tank,
they will give her a bazuka, they will give her
whatever goes in a berzukra and has shot out a missile.
She asks like, and she even asks if they will
give her a nuke, and although they don't want to
give it to her, they essentially admit that, yeah, we'll
(14:05):
bring you a new if you need one.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Which also which you know how to even set it off?
I don't know. But basically, after what seems to be
a pretty slow.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Very small in scope episode, you get this huge explosion
and then this realization from Carol that I'm guessing she
can become essentially like a warlord and just take them down.
That seems like what she wants to do, but also
seems like it would be a huge jump. But I'm
interested to see where this goes once again, and an
intriguing end.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Very intriguing.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Let's take a quick break and welcome in and then
discuss this episode, and we are back. We're talking about
episode three of Plour of Us. Let's now bring in
(14:56):
super producer Ian to discuss this episode.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Hello, how's it go?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
What do you think of this episode?
Speaker 6 (15:04):
I like the episode overall. It's not as not as
spicy as the first two episodes, but I mean, I
think by nature, the first two episodes were so insane
and fantastical, especially just setting up the whole premise that
this next episode was gonna be kind of maybe pumping
the brakes a little bit. But I think that still
had some really great moments and raise some interesting questions,
(15:26):
like the sprout scene, that whole montage where they the
trucks come in and they restock the store and you
get to see like the peak like coordination and efficiency
of the hive mind. Like, I thought that was a
really fantastic sequence and scene. And I think the flashback
at the beginning and the Ice Hotel gives us a
little bit more insight into Carol as a person a character. Yeah,
(15:48):
you know, she's always been like this, so there's there's
something about her that I think maybe, you know, the
reason that she might be immune may have something to
do with you know her having like this even from
the beginning. Maybe we'll learn more about that as the
show goes on.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I like that.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I think that that's true.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I would also see in something I thought was really
cool that you noted was the way that when Helen died,
she essentially loses any connection to anyone else in her
life before the virus. I also wonder if that's part
of it.
Speaker 6 (16:20):
Right, because all the other survivors have their family members
or someone that they care about to still tether them to,
you know, what life was like before the virus, and
that they obviously still care about those people they don't
want anything bad to happen to them. But Carol doesn't
have anyone.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
So they'll go along with it exactly.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
But she doesn't really have anything to make her think like, oh,
there's there's some positive to this, you know. But I
also do think it's interesting that clearly she is starting
to form some kind of attachment to Zosha. Clearly cares
about her well being to some degree, Like when she
got her, she tried to help her and save her.
She wanted her to come with her instead of going
(16:58):
on to Air Force One. She even invites her in
a drink with her, like you know, so she's there
is some kind of bond or connection there, So it'll
be interesting to see how that continues to develop. But yeah,
what did you guys think about the episode?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
It raised some issues.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I liked this episode, although I think there are some issues.
I think for me, the cold open is interesting literally
cold actually physically cold open because it it it sets
up the thesis of the show in a really interesting way,
which is like, okay, the everything at your fingertips, but
(17:32):
you're the our hero is like can literally can't be
happy with anything. She can't be happy on vacation with
the person she loves staring at the northern lights. She
can't be happy when she's on the bestseller list because
she's not number one on the best seller list.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Right, nothing is going to make.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Her feel as if she's worthy enough, she's good enough,
what she's doing is enough, and so of course you're
not gonna be happy with this. That said, there were
multiple times during this episode, and that happened in the
previous episodes to where I'm like, man, you're not going
to solve this shit overnight.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Like chill out, you know, like have a little bit
more realism.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Enjoy it a little bit like yeah, I'm not saying
you need to get a harem, you know what I yeah, yeah, yeah,
but you know, like whatever, enjoy it, like go see.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Go to a spa like relax it.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Doesn't go call in one of the hive mind and
be like tell me what everything that we knew about
at UFOs, like do fun stuff?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
You know actual.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
You know what conspiracies are true or not?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Everyone has that stuff.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
People have a bat. Yeah, all of that.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Stuff is at your fingertips. And again, you're not going
to fix the world overnight, so don't try to. And
I do wonder, if I do wonder how this show
will strike the balance of centering a character that is
kind of like unlikable, is it irascable?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Is frustrating? Is like not ever going to be be
happy with things? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
That was also the success of Breaking Bad, right, so
we get why he's back here again, you know, but
I definitely did have a similar feeling to Jason. I
also spoke to some friends who are just kind of,
you know, average like TV watchers, who wanted to check it,
and they liked it and they were intrigued, but even
by the second episode, they were finding Carol a little
bit hard to like to follow or root for or
(19:31):
kind of even understand.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Like what her motives are.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
You know, I'm doing a screenwriting class right now. We
talk a lot about the what, like what is her want? Like,
I don't know what it is, but I'm guessing it's
going to be to destroy the high mind, very traditional,
classical sife I want. So I'm down, but I do
feel like maybe this is a bit of an extreme
shift for people who are not, you know, already fully
(19:58):
sold because it's a really quiet episode. I also don't
know if for me the writing is up to that
one hundred percent quality that I need if I'm in
like a bottle episode with just two people, you know,
I feel like it wasn't fully there, But I do
still I'm very interested. I want to know more about this.
(20:19):
I also did think on a rewatch this morning, I
was really feeling this notion of like this kind of
is about We've talked a lot about algorithms and kind
of this idea of complacency and comfort and how that
can take away your initiative or even just your enjoyment
of like you know that famous letter where it's the it's.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
It's one of those iconic, you know, old guy authors
like William Burrows or someone like that, but not the
one who killed his wife, but one of those guys
I'm talking about, Like.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Oh, I.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Love going to buy stamps because I go out and
when I buy stamps, I meet a person who is
at the shop and I get to speak to someone
and I pick up a treat on the way home.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
This is about how algorithms.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
And the notion of like ease can take that away
from you. But I felt like this episode had a
really interesting thing to say about basically right now, what
Carol is dealing with is like if somebody you know
dies and then your phone is constantly serving up those
weird movies with emotional music behind them, and they're like
best summer of your life, but it's like the year
(21:29):
they died or something like. She's kind of living through
that experience of they're trying to please her and understand
how to connect with her emotionally, but it's just not working.
I thought that was pretty cool thematic thread through this episode.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I will also say that I felt as if, obviously
the show the themes and the kind of ideas that
this show is grappling with really interesting you know, whether it's.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
AI, the way AI has.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Influenced our daily lives, the way we shop, the way
we ask questions, the kind of instant, teneous gratification of
like the Amazon economy. If I can get something right
away that whatever you want, you can get it. I'll
just can see, Yeah, I can see a movie, I
can get a product, I can watch more like whatever
(22:14):
it is exactly. And this was the first episode where
I was like, Okay, I know it's about that, but
we know, like you're making it too obviously that it's
about that from and I will be interested to see
how they balance it. That said, now, some interesting mysteries
I think were kind of sprinkled throughout, one being this gentleman,
(22:35):
this Paraguay gentleman. Oh sorry, were you going to say something.
Speaker 6 (22:38):
In yeah, just to kind of piggyback off of what
Rosie was saying before we move on. You know about
Carol being increasingly unlikable as the series goes on, which
I think we'll learn more about why that happens. But
I think going back to that sprout scene, I understand
her defiance of like not wanting to eat the food,
and she wants to shop for herself and stop making
(23:00):
dishes from my memories. Which is funny that even though
she's like stop thinking about Helen and her memories, they
still have the memories of every other person she's ever
interacted with, so like, oh, we know your coffee order
because we know the barista's memories and we remember you
love this breakfast and whatever. So it's like, no matter what,
she can't escape from it. But I feel like when
I was watching that Sprout scene where she was like,
(23:21):
I want my sprouts back. I just want to shop
for myself. I was like, low key, you're being like
kind of selfish, straightness.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Sanely selfish, and I think.
Speaker 6 (23:29):
You're gonna have them stock this entire store for you
just to like buy some like frozen dinners. Because when
it cuts back to her eating, she just had like
a TV dinner. She'd even like make her food.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
And to your point, it's like the food is packaged
out of your site, is harvested out of your site.
The idea that like somehow because you are making it
at home, you frosting it at home. Yeah, this guards
you from whatever virus is out there.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yeah, Also, they she should cook the she should eat
the cook food they cook for Aaron.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
This is one of his biggest takes away.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
And I agree because like she's drinking the water at
any point, if they wanted to do this non consensually
to they could of and they're trying to. But like,
eating the food from them that they cook for you
is no different than eating the nasty prepackaged meal that
they could have injected food, like something into. And I
do agree with you, Ian, like why couldn't she just
(24:27):
have been like, hey, can you bring me a bag
of groceries?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Like I get it, aliens have taken over her whole planet.
But yeah, she's a She's definitely, I think he.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I think Vince would probably loved tar Us having this
conversation because I'm sure him and Re talked consistently about
like how far can you push like an unlikable woman
on TV and.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
In a story like this.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
But yeah, I definitely I need to know more. I
need to know the one. I need to know something.
Speaker 6 (24:52):
If you think about it, this whole scenario is essentially
like her personal hell. She's already like the most like cantankerous,
angry person, and then she realizes, like, I can't be angry,
I'm gonna kill a bunch of people, So she has
to like keep her shit under wraps. And it's like
this is literally like her personal help.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
I like that read.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So she's having to be unselfish in some ways, but
the selfishness is still there. I mean, yeah, she needs
to start thinking about these people, and I'm hoping she
will post the grenade with Zosha. She needs to start
realizing those are still human beings in like human bodies
at least, you know, whatever hive mind situation there is,
and she is essentially currently using them as servants.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
You know, let's start there. And yeah, it's not.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
Especially if she's trying to save them from the high mind.
It's like they're gonna be regular people again after that.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Isn't that the point?
Speaker 6 (25:45):
Isn't that the point? So, like what.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I wonder if the art is gonna be in its
own way after this conversation, a relatively simple one, which
is simply like that journey of going from I want
to destroy everything to realizing like, oh maybe there's some
stuff I shouldn't destroy, you know, which I think for
angry people is a really and people have sort of
struggled with severe depression like I have, like the feeling
(26:08):
of hopelessness and the void and there's no one out
there for you. It can be changed simply by just
like having a nice cup of tea with your friends
and you're like, ah, life's worth living again. I wish
I fucking had left my house six months before this
or whatever. And I think I would love to see
her go on that journey. We don't expect Carol to
become like the world's nicest person, that's not the point.
But I would love to see her have some kind
(26:30):
of personal growth on this journey.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
For sure. That must happen, right, because I do think
this very clearly. The show is asking you to be
critical of her, you know, it's showing you moments from
her life where she just can't be She can't She's mean.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
To the people who read her books.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
She's so them.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
She doesn't respect herself.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Even like the sprouts thing is.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So Boomerish in it's like in the way that she's
clinging to this idea that she could somehow.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Isolate herself from the virus by.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
And ignore all this bad stuff that's happening to other
people if she can keep her normal life going.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
That's actually pretty deep.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
So.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
She must.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
All of which is to say there there will be
some personal growth because there she's gonna learn how to
how to use the mechanisms of the Hive Mind in
a way that will will better allow her to fulfill
I guess some sort of vision that is to free
people from this.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
I think, actually, you guys are sparking something in my
head where I think part of what we're seeing right
now is her inability to enjoy it and her inability
to have somebody they can bribe her with, like, oh,
your family's already here, Helen's already here. That doesn't work.
She knows she saw Helen die. It's gonna be harder
for them to find a way to get her to
do it. So I think that is going to also
(27:55):
be like the growth is by the end, does she
have someone in her life that she would be willing
to join the Hive Mind four, which gives out even
more reason to fight for them to do.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
I think there's also.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
There's an interesting thing here of it's not the show
is not inviting you to ask Carol to surrender, but
it's also for me asking you to wonder if, like
what odds, at what odds are a battle worth fighting?
(28:27):
Like the entire world is this way? Okay, you don't
like it, it's wrong on probably several different levels. But everybody,
literally everybody who is alive, is part of this and
agrees with what's going on. So do you care about
their opinion or do you care about yours? How much
can you change a world that you don't agree with?
(28:49):
And how much should you try and change a world
that you don't agree with? I think all those things
are really interesting. Yeah, let's talk about because I do
think that the show gives us, like a breadcrumb that
it might be possible with this guy from Paraguay.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
That's definitely well.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I think the fact that it took them thirty six
hours to find him leads you to believe that maybe
he was under the influence of the hive mind but
got out of it somehow, and got out of it
in a way that is so quirky, weird and uncommon
that only one this only happened once. Like, it's not
(29:27):
like a Felon hit, because if it was the zosia
thing with a concussion that could bring you out of it,
how many people in the world probably had concussion from
just like four when it had Yeah, yeah, five hundred million,
right it like, so there should be a lot of
a lot of people if it was that. So it's
got to be such a weird set of circumstances that
allowed him to escape.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And I can't.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Wait to because we literally have no information, but I
feel like it must be that. What is your thoughts
about this guy and what it portends for the story?
Speaker 6 (29:58):
Well, based on that phone call, we can tell he's
also kind of like an angry, cantankerous son of a bitch,
So I do think there is something to that thread
where like all the people that immune, there's some character
trait or something about them that predisposes them to being immune.
So I think we can tell from the phone call
he's skeptical, doesn't want anything to do with the hive mind,
(30:19):
he's an angry son of a bitch, So I think
there's gonna be something there with that.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Ian yes to push back, I thought about that too,
but like, how many cantankerists, angry niche people that you
can't satisfy are there, Like it's gotta be even.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
More's be something deeper than that.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, yeah, so interested in what it is because I
do think the Paraguay guy is the wrinkle I'm living
for right now, because I do think he could be
a NASA librarian or archivist who's kind of had always
thought about something like this, or he could be a prepper,
or he could be a conspiracy theorist, or he could
(30:56):
just be someone who's a survivalist. He could be a
homeless guy, and that's why they could find him, because
he's not like easily, he doesn't have a lot of
interconnected personal you know, ways that people can remember.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Him or recall him. So I'm I'm most interested for that.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
I would love for episode four to be focused on him,
or at least give us a little bit more insight there,
because I can imagine it's probably gonna be an interesting
casting and they'll probably drop him near the end of
the season, but I would like to know more about
that sooner rather than later.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I think it's got Yeah, it's gotta be like genetically
predisposed to being immune, plus some fluky weird set of
He was tying his shoe while eating bubble while chewing
bubble gum while thinking about this, while like touching his
eye with his like pinky finger, and some weird, very
(31:48):
very rare fluky combination of all those things allowed him
to like snap out of it. And we're gonna that,
I'm guessing is gonna be careful.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
I'm very how did you do it?
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Like?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
What happened? Do you remember what happens?
Speaker 5 (32:01):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (32:01):
That makes so much sense.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
And then together they're trying to work out how they
can snap people out of it.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
That's going to be really interesting.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
And how much of it are they going to be
able to get done in season one because they already
approved season two?
Speaker 4 (32:12):
True?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
So how many you'll go ahead?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Anything good?
Speaker 6 (32:20):
I think. Another interesting thing to that we kind of
briefly touched on, but I want to talk about a
little bit more, is you know this compulsion that the
high mind has to assimilate everyone. They keep saying it's
it's a biological directive. We like have to do it,
We're compelled to do it. And even though Carol's like,
but you say, my life is my own, you know,
but how long? And once you figure it out? Like
(32:42):
what then you know?
Speaker 5 (32:44):
So?
Speaker 6 (32:44):
And and that drowning metaphor that Zosha used, I think
is really interesting because from their perspective, it's almost like
an act of compassion, like we're trying to help you,
We're trying to save you, Like why wouldn't you want
to be a part of this? But it still has
that sinister undertone of like gonna get this work no
matter what. So it's like I just yeah, how they
balance that will be interesting to see, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Well, I think the biggest thing is is like, there's
so it's such, it's an it's a fantastically simple, out
there concept.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
But now we're already three episodes. We're only three episodes.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
In, and I already need to know more about law.
I need to know more about how it happens. I
need to know more about what is driving people. I
need to know either I either need to know what's
driving the Hive Mind or what striving But either way,
what's the want? And yeah, and I'm I'm unclear, but
I'm still vibing.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Do we have any theories about the end goal of
the Hive Mind?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I have one. Here's my is this is there is a.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Uh, some sort of being. Maybe it's like a supercomputer, right,
some kind of space super AI that was built by
other creatures.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Or whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Oh yeah, like a supreme intelligence or some kind of thing,
an alien something. And the way it reproduces is by
seating this RNA virus to other biological so that they can,
as one mass harness a planet's entire like resource tree
(34:17):
to build another one to make another one that and
then it bursts another baby super computer and then it
keeps spreading like fantastic.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Honestly, that would be such a brilliant way.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
But I feel like we'll never find out.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
I feel like I feel like it's gonna be one
of those where Vince is gonna never really tell us
what is behind all this.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Do you have a theory in.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
I mean, I was thinking something similar, you know. I think, yeah,
once everyone is fully assimilated, they're just gonna, like you said,
use all the resource on the planet to continue spreading
this virus from world to world to what end. I'm
still kind of unsure what like they could possibly want
with that, but yeah, I was thinking something similar. I'd
be very curious to see, like, yeah, like once everyone
is assimilar, like then what you know, because they.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Use them to terraform the planet so that other aliens
can come. Jason, I like your idea where it's more
about just creating entire planets of people to just build
more supercomputers that have this, you know, ability to run
because we know how much water and memory and energy
they take. So I think, I think that's a really
cool and I think it's gonna be hard to top that.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Well, a very fun show to talk about. I can't
wait to keep watching it. Coming up on the next
episode of x ra Vision, we're diving into it Welcome
to Dairy, episode four recapping Stranger Things season four two
shows that if you like one, you'll probably like the other.
And then we're off to see the Wizard with our
Wicked for Good, the sequel to Wicked coming out soon,
(35:43):
our coverage of Wicked for Good. That's it for this episode.
Thanks for listening, Bye bye. X ray Vision is hosted
by Jason SEPs Young and Rosie Knight and is a
production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Our executive producers are just Al Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan, and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Heidi our discord moderator,
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.