December 21, 2025 • 46 mins
Jason recaps the penultimate episode of Pluribus season one, then brings in producer Ian to discuss Carol’s new tactics for extracting information from the hivemind, Zosia rizzing Carol up, the lore drops we learned, and, finally, their predictions for what could happen in the looming confrontation when Manousos finally reaches Albuquerque in the finale.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Today's episode contains spoilers for Pluribus episode oneh eight.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Be warned.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh it is Jason Concepcion and I'm by myself.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
That's because Rosie is not feeling today.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Get well soon, Rosie, She'll be fun. That's just under
the weather today. And our super producer, Ian, who is
our other Pluribus expert, is currently under active cyber attack,
possibly by an enemy nation state. That's Carmen's theory. Cannot
connect to the Internet and we've all been there, haven't we.
(00:54):
So welcome back the x ray vision of the podcast,
where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics
of pop culture from my Heart. We're'll bring you three
episodes a week, plus neis on Saturday. Before we jump
in a quick product note. This holiday season, we'll be
shouting a couple of short stopping Steppa episodes. With so
many great shows and movies coming out this next few months,
(01:15):
these episodes will help us cover some extra content we
wouldn't be able to get on our normal episode, so
keep an eye out for those. But first, I'm not
to solo this purvious episode. Episode eight of season one.
We open with what I think is going to be
a important, very short detail that we see in this
(01:40):
cold open of this episode, which is Manusos, who recently
impaled himself on a spiny tree in the Darien Gap
and is now clearly suffering from a very serious bacterial infection,
among other things, dehydration, et cetera. Is in the hospital
and we see his blood dripping on the floor. I
think you've heard us talk about the ian stem cell theory.
(02:05):
I think the hive mind is going to collect this
blood and be able and other material as we've talked
about in our previous Curvous episode, and I think they're
going to be able to reverse DNA engineer the infection.
Wait and see. His surgeon greets him and is like, hey,
how you doing? You passed out? Do you remember anything about?
(02:27):
Like why you're here?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Good news.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You've got a very serious infection, but it's responding well
to the antibacterials, and you're in bad shape, but.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
We got you on the mend. Just hank tight.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You got to rest, don't worry about it. Well, Menusless
is in no state of mind to rest. He pops up,
grabs a scalpel, presses it to the surgeon's throat and
is like, I demand to pay for my medical care.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
All the hive mind is like no, no, no, no,
it's on us. Like really, we love to do this.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Ask Carol about it, Ask any of the other survivors.
We love to just you know, be here to serve.
And he's like, no, absolutely not, Like I'm paying for
this shit. There were real people before you guys got here.
You guys are not real people. I'm not stealing goods
and services from the real people who you are currently
(03:26):
holding in your hive mind prison. So the hive mind
are like, okay, so it's like eight thousand and changed, basically,
can we write your receipt? And he's like yeah, great.
He also learns that he's in Panama. In other words,
he's made it to the other side of the Darien
Gap and can basically drive all the way up to Albertquerque,
New Mexico to meet Carol. Carol is at home hosting Zosia.
(03:49):
She's very nervous. It's quite it's quite charming, it's quite cute.
She makes some lemonade. Zosha compliments the the authentic Georgia
o'kee on the wall, and Carol tries to be like, oh, yeah, yeah,
you know I'm just keeping it here, you know, for
safe keeping, and I'm thinking about collecting other art because
(04:11):
of She goes on to say, like wild animal attacks
could be the reason, like that she's gonna collect priceless art.
But Zosha's like, yeah, don't worry about it, you know,
we don't care about that. I think it looks great here.
And then there's like an awkward silence because Carol, you know,
is still feeling things out. I think it's clearly developing
feelings for Zosha, but doesn't know how to grapple with
(04:36):
the reality of that. So Zosha suggests a board game,
which clearly she knows Carol loves board games. But they
come up against the problem, or at least Carol does,
which is, how do you play a game, a game
of strategy against all of the smartest people currently in
the world, which the hive mine are. You can't play
chess because the hive mind is like, you know, I
(04:59):
don't know how many great masters there are in the world,
but they're all of them, and et cetera, and so on.
Risk is going to be difficult. And I think this
is a really interesting metaphor actually for the for the
challenge that Carol and Manuso's face in trying to rest
the world back from the Hive mind, if indeed they
(05:20):
want to do that, because they are up against the
greatest living human strategists. So they end up playing spit,
which is a card game kind of akin to war
that I used to play as a kid, and now
I can't remember how it's played at all, but it's
going kind of, you know, it's back and forth game.
Sosha ask Carol, just kind of making small talk, Hey,
(05:44):
would you want to see your cousin. Your cousin's part
of us, you know, and you haven't seen him in
a while. And Carol's like, no, you know, if he
didn't ever come to see me before this.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Why would I want that to happen now?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And they're having a lot of fun playing this game.
Carol learns that all the people in Albuquerque will be
back soon. They they're you know, currently coming back in
waves and they'll be back in you know, like twenty
four hours or something like that. And she also puts
in a request, is oh to powerwash the white letters
off of her street, and it's again, it's very awkward.
(06:18):
It's clearly there's a feeling out process here where Carol is,
I mean, it's it's cute in a way. Zosha tells
Carol that, you know, everything is community space now. It's
basically like the best version of the most idealistic version
of communism that like Marx and Angles like absolutely dreamed
about when they were in the throes of imagination. Everybody
(06:44):
sleeps in the same few locations in order to you know,
make everything energy efficient and such. Zosha takes them to
the local sports arena, where Carol sees, you know, a
bunch of people's sleeping on the arena floor, all kind
of cuddling together, setting up their blankets. It's all very actually,
(07:06):
all very nice. There's a dog there. Zosia tells Carol
that they don't control the dogs, but when the dogs
a lot of times will stay bonded to the form
of their former owner, and then the hive mind takes
care of them, which is all very sweet. So Sha
asks Carol if she would like to stay overnight at
the sports arena. Carol is like, no, I think I'm good,
(07:27):
but then she does end up spending the night. She
kind of just dozes off in the warmth and acceptance
of the hive mind. Cuddling with Zoshia, and it's clear
that Carol is beginning to see different perspectives on the
Hive mind situation. Yes, it's troubling on many levels, like
this is an alien invasion, full stop. They're eating people
(07:51):
like soil it green, full stop. That's really bad. But
there is something about the warmth, the acceptance, and like
the overall community that she's seeing that adds a different
dimension to this experience.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
In Carol is.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Clearly trying to process all of that, and she goes
home by herself, opens up her whiteboard, stares for a
long time at the outline of her latest waikaro novel,
which you know she may or may not start, but
then eventually moves the whiteboard aside and writes on her
(08:33):
list of Hive Mind facts. They eat people underline, underline, underline,
as if to remind herself, like, yes, this is I
can see, I can see a different side of it. Yes,
I'm developing feelings for Zosia. Yes, like peace and the
lack of any kind of strife is actually quite nice
(08:54):
to see.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
They eat people.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Later, Zosha and Carol.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Go hiking, and Zosha is just like drinking up every
fact about Carol that Carol shares, and Carol they see
a train, you know, moving in the distance at the
at the bottom of the valley there it's an incredible vista.
And Carol's like, oh, you know, I love trains, and Zosha's.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Like, what, tell me, tell me more about this?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
What And Carol's like, oh, do you don't know about
Like I must have told someone at some point during
my life that I love trains?
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Did I not do that?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And Zosha in the hive mind don't know this fact,
And they're clearly there's this one interesting thing where they're
they know everything right, they have the totality of human experience,
but they can't really develop any new experiences or new perspectives,
and they're clearly hungry for it. Like when Carol begins
(09:48):
to share that, Zosha is like wrapped and and loves
hearing about this, and Carol basically says, like, part of
it is because the horn of a train, you know,
in the distance is the loneliest sound in the world,
and something about that resonates with her.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
And then a.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Second later, the train in the distance sounds its horn
and Carol asks, okay, so like how do you do that?
Like how does the hive mind? How are you all connected?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Like what is it?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And Zosha's basically like, it's kind of like electromagnetic waves
that the human body gives off and receives but that
you don't know how to access right now, but like
the infection has allowed us to access it, so they
kind of share this wavelength. They then go to get
massages and Carol is like, how do you experience this massage?
(10:38):
Because it's like you're giving it, but you're also receiving it,
and you're giving it to me, but you're receiving it too.
And Zosha tries to kind of explain what it's like
to be the hive mind and know at that very moment,
like how many people were just born and how many
people have died, and she she's like, there's this guy,
(11:02):
you know, and I forget where it was, like Bulgaria
or something, who just was impaled. He'll be fine. But
like all of this like granular understanding of the outer
reaches of the hive mind, as if like they were
fingers and toes on a single body, really freaks Carol out.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So Zosha kind of sensing that brings it back.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
To the massage, like but basically like the massage feels
really really good, feels great. Later, Zosha shows Carol where
the message, the alien invasion message originally came from, and
she tells her that they think, because again they don't know,
they have not received any actual information from the hive
(11:44):
mind message, it's just activated them.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
As a hive mind.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
They think that the original planet where the single came
from is like one huge ocean. So they all live
together in like this huge ocean. And Carol finally manages
to dial in the planet. It's Kepler twenty two B.
And the hive mind we learn on this planet are
so and this is what we were, right, folks, so
(12:10):
taken by the message and so thankful and grateful for
the unity and love and acceptance that it is given
them access to that they are they want to pass
it along. In Zosia's words, they are driven clearly to
at some point muster the world's resources to build and
other continent size antenna and spread the message. That's what
(12:34):
they want to do. Carol is a little chilled by that, clearly.
She then asks for more pens from Zosia, and so
she's like, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Because you're writing, we can't wait, like a new way, Cara,
that would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Carol lies and says, yeah, yeah, yeah, a new wi
Caral for sure, you know, Carol, And she again she
does spend a lot of time looking at the white
Carol board, but then she goes directly to her save
the world from the hive mind board to write stuff. Later,
Carol and Zosha played croquet and Zosha is absolutely fucking
crushing Carol because she is every croquet world champion that
(13:09):
was alive at the time of the invasion. She talks
a little bit of trash to Carol, which I found
quite charming, and I think Carol did as well. Zosha
asks Carol what was your best writing day?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Like, like what was that like?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
And why?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And then Carol's like, I don't know, it's hard to explain,
and you know, do you really want to know about this?
And then Zosha's like, I have some place to take you.
It takes her to a diner that had been closed
for years but is now back in business and just
the way that Carol remembered it. And this is the
place where Carol began her writing journey, trying to figure
(13:46):
out how to write while having a day job. And
you know, spending all her days at work and then
finding a place to write. And this diner was a
lot about that place. And she talks about that, the
hive minds eating it up. And then she looks up
and she's like, yeah, because she's talking about this waitress
that she remembered, who is so kind and like, without
(14:09):
knowing it helped her on her journey. And she looks
up and that there's the waitress. And then she's like, wait,
holy shit, that's the waitress. And this place burned down,
didn't it. You You built it from scratch, did you not?
And Zosha's like, yeah, we built it from scratch. And
Carol's like, God, I miss those days. But the more
she thinks about it, and the more she thinks about
(14:30):
this incredible expenditure of resources that they put into creating
this experience and bringing back the original waitress, Carol becomes
disturbed and she immediately she just like leaves with Soosha's
very confused. The hive mind is like what happened. Sosha
comes to see Carol at her house and Carol is
drinking and she's clearly in a weird mood, and she
(14:51):
wants Zosha to use I as a pronoun, not we,
and Zosha really has trouble with that, like that's a
hard thing for the hive mind to grapple with. And
then Carol begins to interrogate social about the waitress. Where
was she before all this? What was her life like
(15:12):
before the invasion? Where was she living when you made
her come all the way to Albuquerque and do this.
Zosha doesn't deny that there's a weirdness to this, and
there's a question of agency and all of this, and
there's a kind of like chess master moving people around
(15:33):
as pieces kind of aspect to this, and she doesn't
deny Carol's charge that actually, you're trying to distract me
from my mission to stop this infection, to roll it back,
aren't you, Like that's really what you want to do.
You're presenting me with all of these nostalgic things that
(15:53):
make me think of writing, because you want me to
write a new waikaru and not save the world. And
Zosha's basically like, yeah, but also like a lot of
the many people that are part of us love why
Kara and they can't wait for a new wayikaro. Carol
basically says listen, I'm never going to give up trying
to save the world. Okay, are you okay with that?
(16:15):
Zosh and Zosha answers by going in for a kiss,
which is like super weird, big big gamble on the
Hive Mind's part, but it works and they get together physically,
there's a physical joining. Later, the Hive Mind wakes up
to find Carol printing stuff out in her office, writing
(16:37):
and printing stuff out, and Carol asks Oosha to read
chapter one of the New Wayko and it's ten minutes
while Carol is waiting for Zosha to finish it. But
then Zosha comes down and she's like, I'm blown away
by this.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Raban is a woman. Now, oh my god, this makes
so much sense.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
And then they have like such a nerdy and fun
conversation about, well, how are you going to do it?
Are you just gonna retck on it where it's like,
you know, rebooting the series, and Carol insists and this
is so good that no, like, actually, I can do
it canonically, I can do it in world using this
(17:14):
and that mechanism, and they and they're both nerding out
about the way it could work and how it could
actually happen.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
And make sense.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Carol then ask Zosha in the singular, like you as
the person you as Zosha, what did you what did
you like to do?
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Like, what were your likes and dislikes? What was what
were your favorite things?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And Zosha again kind of like stumbles on the Wei
versus I, but she manages to share that she loved
mango ice cream and that there was a guy in
her city that sold it, and that when she was
a kid, she would go up to the hill overlooking
the harbor and she would watch all these ships coming
in and out, and she was like fascinated with the ships,
(17:56):
like and fascinated with the idea of who built them
and where are they going and who lives on them,
and where are all these places where they're coming to
and going from. And it's a really beautiful and very
human kind of remembrance. And in the middle of that
she freezes, and Carol's like, what's wrong, And then Zosha's like,
(18:23):
you're gonna have a visitor. And we know now that
Manusos is coming and we see him crossing the border.
Let's take a quick break and be back with super
producer Ian, who has figured out his Internet let's talk
(18:47):
about this episode that I think is one of the
best of the season and just incredible.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
I mean the turn.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I think what I most appreciate about it is you
so vividly understand what Carol is struggling with. It's like
the loneliness, the depression, the sadness, it's too much. She
hasn't she's fully cognizant that what's going on with the
Hive Mind is bad, but she's also seeing new perspectives
(19:22):
on it that haven't fully convinced her that it's worth
just forgetting about it and going with the flow.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
But right, there's different levels to it.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Now, there's this kind of clear warmth and community of
the Hive Mind, even if it's clearly marshaling itself toward
the goal of building some other huge antenna, right and
infecting another world, But there's like a warmth to it,
there's a community to it. There's the lack of violence,
the lack of you know, any kind of class race strife.
(19:56):
All the wars have stopped, and Soosha's really cool and charming,
Like there is that aspect to it, and it's the
episode does such a great job of bringing you along
and making you feel like, Okay, this is fucked up,
but also like let's just yeah, why not like rest
and just gather your thoughts in this kind of feeling
for a while. And that's contrasted with the figure Who's coming,
(20:23):
and I feel.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Like the blooming threat of Manuso's and.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I feel very, very concerned that Manuso's is coming and
he's gonna kill Zosha. I yes, feel like that's where
it's going. What are your thoughts about this episode.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
I love the episode for a lot of the reasons
you laid out, and I think, yeah, that seeing that
conflict brew within Carol throughout the whole episode is just
so fascinating and like super relatable, and like, I think
if I was in a similar situation, I would probably
be battling with a lot of the same feelings, you know.
I thought it was interesting because when the episode started,
(21:02):
I was like, Oh, maybe she really is kind of
coming around, you know, and is kind of embracing the
positives of the situation that she found herself in. You know,
she realizes she doesn't want to be alone, she doesn't
want to be isolated like that. But then as the
episode progressed, I was like, oh, Okay, No, she's like
hitting them with like a little bit of a reverse
Uno card. You know, she's actually just doing this to
(21:25):
serve her ultimate goal of still trying to stop them.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
And it's also like she is doing that because clearly
she's going back and she's you know, writing all the stuff,
the new intel that she's learned. You know that they're
bent on spreading the infection that you know, the underlining
of the fact that they eat people, as in as
if to say like, don't forget don't forget about that all,
(21:52):
don't forget about this. Right At the same time, you
get the sense that the hive mind, I mean, they're
not just like the greatest chess players, the greatest croquet players,
they are the most charming people.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Right. They rizzed her up in this episode. It was crazy,
and there.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Is there is this there is this like charming transparency
to them where they're like, listen, you know, are we
trying to disharpt you, Yes, but also.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
We love Woycaro and like.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
This is like we're loving this, you know, like the
way they are hanging on every word when she's talking
about the trains, and you know that sense that the
Hive mind. Though they have all the experiences that humanity
can offer, they can't really generate new ones, right, They
can't generate other new perspectives, and so they were so
(22:49):
hungry for this new perspective from Carol. That was I
think that that is there's something intoxicating about that. And
I'm not saying that Carol is going to forge get
about her mission, but there is also the sense that
maybe it's working a little bit, like they can slow
her down for sure.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
So when I was watching that scene, what I read was,
you know, obviously, when Carol explicitly calls out like you're
trying to distract me from my mission, Zosha goes in
for the kiss, and I'm like, oh shit, it's like
low key working. And then all of a sudden she's
inspired to start writing again. But then after I've sat
with the episode for a little bit, I was like,
what she genuinely inspired to start writing in from that moment?
(23:31):
Or is this again Carol trying to play for d
Chess and his in turn trying to distract the Hive
mind again by giving them this new book to put
focus their attention on, you know, because I think maybe
that's what Carol is doing is she's trying to like
one up them with an even bigger distraction.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I think you're right. I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I think she's playing the game for them, playing the
game back at them and saying, yes, yeah, it's working,
it's working. I also think that, like human nature tells
me that people can one of the most amazing things,
like I feel like people can do is rationalize what
they're doing to make it so actually I meant to
do this. I think that there's a world in which
(24:10):
Carol gets so wrapped up in the writing that the
Hive Mind actually succeeds. I mean that kiss huge gamble, right,
And I think that there's a world in which you
can imagine Carol being actually.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Disgusted, Oh for sure.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
But I think it's a.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Measure of how cunning and.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Good the Hive Mind are at their Ris game that
they took the gamble, probably with the idea that like
this is.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Actually going to work.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And it also made me think that maybe they're buying
time for your theory to start doing something with the
stem cells from the eggs.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Like I was, I found the.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Cold open of this episode it felt very important to
me seeing that blood Menusus's blood hit the floor because
I think, yeah, that bloo. I think they're going to
collect that and any material that they got from Manusa's
because I think it's important to me, right, and it's
important detail I think that they don't. I think if
(25:12):
Manuso's could have said don't operate on me and save
my life, he would have. And I think they could
have meaningly inferred that from everything he had done up
to that point, and yet they went against that to
save his life.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
So I do kind of feel like they can immediately.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Jump to using his genetic material in order to, I
don't know, maybe stop this looming threat that they clearly
see coming. Like Zosha was ye troubled by his approach
in a way that the Hive mind who told Diabate
about Carol's approach were not, like they were a little
(25:57):
like put off, But it wasn't like like Zosha seems.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
She seems scared your thoughts Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
I think this is kind of ties back into what
we were discussing on the previous episode. This is clearly
setting us up for a major confrontation when Manusos arrives,
and I think it's either gonna end with Zosia getting
seriously injured or dying, or Carol might have to fend
(26:23):
Manuso's off and end up maybe killing him. But I
think someone is not going to make it out of
this finale. I think it's gonna be like what you
said last week, it's going to be a careful what
you wish for situation because as we saw in this episode,
Manuso's clearly has a pensiant or a tolerance for violence
and physical harm against the Hive mind. You know, he
(26:43):
had the scalpel to the surgeon's neck in a way
that Carol to this point we have not seen her have.
So I think that's going to be a part of
the a central part of the conflict when they do meet.
I think he's gonna be willing to, you know, get
the job done through violent means, whereas.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
That Carol may balk at that.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
So I think it'll be really interesting to see how
it plays out.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, I am very very nervous about his appearance on
the scene, and that hostage taking scene made me think,
you know, we've wondered, like Manuso's like, what's his background,
I'm now wondering like soldier, here's the thing. Imagine yourself
for the first time coming to a place where your
(27:27):
decision making tells you, you know what I should do
is grab this scalpel and put it to this person's
neck to get out of here. That would never occur
to me. That's not a thing like, that's not the
first time he's done something like that. That's what that
tells me that this is a person who is used
to making these kind of extreme decisions.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
And to your point, I do. I think he's.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Gonna have a very militaristic idea about how to roll
this whole thing back. And I wonder if the choice
to infect him, potentially using the genetic material that they
collected during his surgery. I wonder if it's going to
be put into Carol's hands somehow, Like I wonder if,
(28:19):
like here's what I think might happen. There's an initial
meeting Zosha, I'm Carol and.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Manusos. Carol realizes.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
How one dedicated to the cause Manuslas is, but also
how scary and maybe there's something that threatens Zosha's life
and maybe she's injured. And then Zosha says, hey, I know,
we kind of have a solution, but we can't do
it because of consent or whatever. But we made the infection,
(28:52):
and if you infect him with this, because I don't
think they can do it, Like, I don't think that
they could, like even if they make the thing.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
They can't like inject him with it or whatever.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah, I don't think they can do that.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
So I think they would need Carol to do it,
and Carol will be faced with this dilemma.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
That's what I think could happen.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
That would be really wild. Yeah, Oh that's good. Hmmm.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Yeah, because I think this episode really explored the sense
of like duty versus connection, and particularly with Carol. You know,
she has not given up on her mission to save
the world, as we discussed, but at the same time,
she really is connecting with Zosha and seeing the beauty
in the hive mind like you said, and I think
(29:37):
she's she's torn because she's like, on the surface like
this is pretty good, Like I get it, but like
you know, she still feels a sense of duty to
set the world right. And she said, even if it means,
you know, I'm gonna be hated or alone or whatever,
I'm willing to make that choice to fix the world.
And I think if for nothing else, just to like
prevent everybody from starving, you know, yeah, because if nothing happened,
(30:00):
like they're eventually all gonna die. And like I don't
think she wants them to keep eating people either. So yeah,
it's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
And I think I think once they begin their big
antenna project, you're likely to see many more people die
because I think that is they're marshaling all these resources
and centralizing things one to keep the community efficient, which
is you know, it was honestly like really nice. You
(30:27):
couldn't help but be warmed by like the site inside
the arena with everyone, yeah, peacefully coexisting and it was
pretty sweet, right, But clearly that's so they can build
the big thing.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Right, And I think it's very likely that.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
That the deaths from starvation will only increase during that period,
And like what then I the other here's the other thing.
I I don't know. I was putting myself in Carol's
shoes a lot. And I also think like there's an
there's an aspect of like ego to being like it's
on me. I've got to stop this, don't you think,
(31:04):
Like I'm not saying what happened? Is right, But I'm
also saying like it's twelve against seven billion, you know,
like if you go by majority rules and what you've
kind of lost already, Like what do you what do
you think about that? And what would you do? Like
what would what would you do in Carol's shoes?
Speaker 5 (31:24):
I mean, yeah, I think it takes a sort of
like a rational level of confidence, like similar to like
a professional athlete or something to think like, okay, like
it's me versus seven billion, but I'm there be the
one to get it done. Yeah, But I think if
I was in her shoes, I would probably do more
(31:44):
of what Diabate is doing and just like kind of
try to make the best of it, because I don't
know if I would be able to try to figure
out out on my own, especially knowing that the other
people who are in a similar position to me like want.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Nothing to do with me.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
I think that would be tough.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I think the other thing that really scares me is
you know that that moment where accidentally Carol caused how
many deaths? Did they say it was like seven million
or something?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It was like a lot, it was it was in
the millions. Yeah, what is.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
The like, what is the acceptable loss rate for fixing
the world if you're going to fix it like that?
To me is the other thing, like how many millions
are you or hundreds of thousands or tens of thousands
or hundreds or dozens, what is the number that you
are comfortable with losing in order to potentially put things right?
(32:49):
And I'm not sure that that's like, I'm not sure
that's a choice that I'd be comfortable making in the
same situation as Carol.
Speaker 5 (32:59):
And that actually makes me think it's interesting, like we
haven't seen manusos cause that kind of like short out
to the hive mind yet, which I'm it's a little surprising.
So maybe it's something specific about Carol, But I wonder
if that maybe comes into play in the finale, Like
he does something so aggressive towards somebody in the hive
mind it causes a bunch of people to short out,
(33:21):
and maybe that kills a bunch of people and that's what,
you know, turns Carol against him or something. So I
think it'll be interesting to see how that plays out too,
because we know, you know, they react really strongly to
negative emotions.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
So yeah, Manusas is coming in with a shitloader.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
Negative emotions, so we'll see if that is a factor too,
But yeah, I think it's again just setting us up
for a wild finale.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
It's what's interesting to me is like that the Hive
Mind or whoever initiated this signal has they must have
had this problem before, right, like on whatever other planet
they've managed to transform, Like there must have been a
handful of like immune individuals right somehow. And it's interesting
(34:11):
to me that though the Hive Mind code unites, it
unites everyone, it has kind of like no other information.
It's just basically like, okay, you're all united, and in
that uniting they are clearly so grateful for the gift
they've been given that they want to send the message on.
(34:32):
But there's no script in there, no anything in there
about how to deal with the eventuality. That's not everyone
will be transformed, and that is I don't know, that's
interesting to me.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
Yeah, there's no like troubleshooting steps if something goes wrong. Yeah,
it's interesting. It is kind of like they you know,
like leaving them to their own devices. It's like, all right,
like you guys are born now here, you're out in
the world, like figure it out, you know, it interesting
And to that point, I think we did get a
lot of some really kind of big lore drops in
(35:06):
this episode. But yeah, it was very casually dropped and
then they kind of moved past it pretty quickly. But
I think that's a kind of par for the course
with the show, where Vince is just like, oh, yeah,
you want to know some more stuff. Here it is,
but like, that's not really what it's about. It's about
the connections between these characters. So, you know, we learn
about the planet where the signal comes from Kepler two
two six. But it's interesting that even the High Mind
(35:28):
is like, we don't really know much about the planet
or its inhabitants. We just know that we love them
and we're grateful to them for sharing this gift with us,
and we just want to keep spreading it out to
whoever else is out there in the universe. So I
honestly like wonder if there even was that kind of
knowledge of like what to do if something goes wrong
from that from Kepler two two six, or if that
(35:48):
was a similar situation where you know, the signal got
beamed to them and they just passed it on without
really much knowledge of its origin, and so I wonder
if we will find out more about that or if
that just going to kind of be like a looming
mystery of like we don't really know where it came from.
We just know we want to keep spreading it. You know,
what are your thoughts about about that and that information
that was revealed.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I think it's pretty fascinating. I also think that, like
the loard drop that kind of like broke my brain
a little bit was the fact that the infection works
by activating a latent ability for telepathy that human beings have,
like an ability to mind meld over the electromagnetic spectrum
(36:30):
somehow that just humans are not able to uh to
interact with because it doesn't add anything or take any
It just kind of like opens up that channel. And
that part of it was you know, really fascinating, really
really really interesting.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Yeah, when Zosha is like, oh, it's part of you know,
the human body's natural electromagnetic field, Like you have one too,
you're just like not tapping into it, that is really
interesting ideas. So I guess maybe the virus or the
code rerid it's your DNA in a way to allow
you to access that on a I guess subconscious level,
because she said there it's like breathing for them and
they're not actively using it like a radio. So oh,
(37:11):
and then that makes me think, is that the frequency
that Manuso's picked up on the radio? That electromagnetic frequency?
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Do we think?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I think that that's what it is? And I think,
you know, Manusa's is going to have some big brain
idea like, you know, let's go to that field of
huge antennas that we saw in episode one and let's
jam the signal or something like that.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I also think that I can't wait to learn more
about Manusos because I also feel like the way he
he's like, how did he know this was happening? He
must have picked up on it somehow, and because he
obviously Carol has sent him information and he's watched the video,
(37:56):
so he knows a certain amount in particular that you
know that this is some kind of alien invasion, et cetera.
But he also seemed like he knew that beforehand, like
that there was something that had that had signaled to
him that something was happening. And his like rage about
(38:17):
that is fascinating to me. And so when are we
going to get and I feel like it must be
the finale, right, when.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Are we going to get a backstory?
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yes, the backstory, It must be next episode, right, it
has to be.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
Yeah, because yeah, it is interesting because in the beginning,
when we first are introduced to him, he's already locked
down in the bunker. We don't really know how long
he's been there, how he found out. But then when
he gets that first tape from Carol, he is surprised
to learn that there are other people like him. So
he was siloed in that way where he knew some
things but not, you know, as much as Carol or
(38:55):
the other survivors knew. But then clearly he had interacted
with some other people before, like like when he was
leaving to go on his journey and he runs across
a person used to be his mom.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
You know. I think maybe that was initially.
Speaker 5 (39:09):
What like clued him in or something, when he was like,
you know, my mom was a horrible person, like you're
not her. Maybe that was when it first started. He
was yeah with his mom or something, and that's what
clued him in like something is not right. Yeah, I
think we're gonna have to get some kind of backstory
about where he was like the day had happened during
the joining or something. Maybe we'll get that flashback in
(39:29):
the in the finale.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Any predictions for the finale.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
I mean, but beyond just the big conflict between Carol
and Manusos, I think, yeah, we'll learn maybe a little
bit more about Manusa's backstory. I think I hope the
eggs come into play because that was like a really
big detail that's been left dangling. So I think that
(39:56):
will come into play.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Hmm yeah.
Speaker 5 (39:59):
I mean other than that, I'm like not really sure
where it's going to go, but I think we're we're
in for a doozy of a finale doozy. But I
think the main the main conflict is going to be,
you know, how is Manussa's going to react when he
sees how buddy buddy Carol has become with with Zosia
and and aspects of the Hive Mind situation. So be
(40:20):
fascinating to see how that plays out.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Well, thanks for joining us uh and getting over the
hurdle of your wonky internet. This show is just incredible, incredible.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
It's so good.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I mean, there's so much too, Like The The Clear,
I mean it you'd almost call it like a seduction
of Carol by the hive mind is so effective and
well done, and them sharing things about each other is
so interesting. I mean, I can't I can't get enough.
(40:59):
I'm I'm like love the show and I can't wait
for the finale. I'm really really worried that Sosha is
gonna get hurt or die. I'm very concerned, yes, very
very worried. It feels like it's got to be either
Manuso's or Zosia at this point.
Speaker 5 (41:16):
Yeah, definitely one of those two. Something bad is going
to happen to one of the two of them. There's
no way that they can all co exist, I don't
think peacefully. So yeah, we'll see what happens. But yeah,
to the last point, you were just making it that
is something I hadn't really considered until this episode. But
it's like, not only do they have the collective intellect
of you know, all the best pilot surgeons, doctors, chess
(41:37):
players in the world, but also like they have the
charm and charisma of the most charismatic people on the planet,
and they really put it on full display this episode.
You know, even like Zosha teasing Carol when they're playing
croquet and like that's like and them like joking around
and being like humorous like that.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
We hadn't really seen much.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Yeah, the little trash talk like all that stuff was
so good, and.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
They really turned it on on this episode to as
Carol called out, to distract her and manipulate her. And
I thought that was pretty sinister. Actually, the fact that
they like rebuilt the diner, moved this woman from like
Florida back to to Albertquerque just to appease or to
distract Carrol as like pretty that was pretty gross.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
So it's like oof.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
What I find like really sinister about it too, is
that it's also sincere, like the hive mind. Are all
these people right, like they're they're they're great, They're great strategists,
they're great manipulators, they're you know, uh, but also you
know lovers and empaths and fans of Waikaro. And so
(42:44):
while they're simultaneously planning to distract and dissuade Carol from
going through with trying to find a cure, and that
is very sinister, there's also the level of their sincerely
falling in love with Carol. Potentially they're sincerely like interested
(43:06):
in everything she has to say, they're sincerely fans of
Waikaro and can't wait for more, while they're also sincerely.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Trying to fuck her up.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Like it's all of that at once, which is it's
hard to get your mind around it.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
It's fascinating, and yeah, it's like it's so conflicting, and
like I can see why Carol is like so on
the fence and unsure of what's the right way to proceed,
because yeah, I mean that would be enough to make
anybody's head spin because they're actively trying to fuck with you.
But at the same time, like they also are, as
you said, so sincere in everything that they're doing. So
it's like where does that leave you? You know, Yeah,
(43:45):
it's it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
It reminds me in fact of like this. I think
I've talked about this on before. There's this book I
read Up the River, and it's about like colonialism in Africa,
and the narrator talks about how, you know, how destructive
and oppressive like Western civilization through colonialism is there in Africa.
(44:10):
He's he's a South Asian immigrant in Africa living in Africa,
which is under colonial rule, and and he says like
he's talking about like a statue that the Europeans put
up like in the town square, and he's like, you know,
the Europeans they want they want golden slaves like everybody else,
(44:31):
but they also.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
Want you to like be you all.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
They also want you to look at them as like
these great intellectuals and lovers of culture, with all these
other like with all these other positive aspects, despite the
fact that they want to do bad things, destructive things here.
And I think it's I think about it in the
same kind of way where it's like it's hard to
unwrap it all, Like the the hive mind have ill intent,
(45:05):
but they also have like good intent. They have there's
a part of them that wants to do the best
for you and they are true and it's more than
two things.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
And it's so.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Like complex to try and grapple with. I think Carol's
doing kind of her best, but it must be such
an incredible mind fucking who could blame a person for
taking the diabate route where they're just like, you know what,
I can't I don't know if I can necessarily fix this,
(45:37):
and I certainly can't fix this today. So like let's uh,
you know. Uh, let's let's play James Bond like in
Las Vegas and just enjoy ourselves.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, oh man, it's just such a good show man,
I can't.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Live I me neither. Finale coming up soon.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Stay tuned x ray Vision, where we're diving into continuing
to dive into Pluribus as well as start our coverage
of Fallout season two, and on the next episode of
Extra Vision, we're diving into non traditional holiday movies the
whole family can joy and discussing in the second episode
of Fallout season two. That's it from this episode.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Thanks for listening to.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie
Night and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wax.
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord,
Kenny Goodman and Heidi our Discord moderate them
Warning.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Today's episode contains spoilers for Pluribus episode oneh eight.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Be warned.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh it is Jason Concepcion and I'm by myself.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
That's because Rosie is not feeling today.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Get well soon, Rosie, She'll be fun. That's just under
the weather today. And our super producer, Ian, who is
our other Pluribus expert, is currently under active cyber attack,
possibly by an enemy nation state. That's Carmen's theory. Cannot
connect to the Internet and we've all been there, haven't we.
(00:54):
So welcome back the x ray vision of the podcast,
where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics
of pop culture from my Heart. We're'll bring you three
episodes a week, plus neis on Saturday. Before we jump
in a quick product note. This holiday season, we'll be
shouting a couple of short stopping Steppa episodes. With so
many great shows and movies coming out this next few months,
(01:15):
these episodes will help us cover some extra content we
wouldn't be able to get on our normal episode, so
keep an eye out for those. But first, I'm not
to solo this purvious episode. Episode eight of season one.
We open with what I think is going to be
a important, very short detail that we see in this
(01:40):
cold open of this episode, which is Manusos, who recently
impaled himself on a spiny tree in the Darien Gap
and is now clearly suffering from a very serious bacterial infection,
among other things, dehydration, et cetera. Is in the hospital
and we see his blood dripping on the floor. I
think you've heard us talk about the ian stem cell theory.
(02:05):
I think the hive mind is going to collect this
blood and be able and other material as we've talked
about in our previous Curvous episode, and I think they're
going to be able to reverse DNA engineer the infection.
Wait and see. His surgeon greets him and is like, hey,
how you doing? You passed out? Do you remember anything about?
(02:27):
Like why you're here?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Good news.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You've got a very serious infection, but it's responding well
to the antibacterials, and you're in bad shape, but.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
We got you on the mend. Just hank tight.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You got to rest, don't worry about it. Well, Menusless
is in no state of mind to rest. He pops up,
grabs a scalpel, presses it to the surgeon's throat and
is like, I demand to pay for my medical care.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
All the hive mind is like no, no, no, no,
it's on us. Like really, we love to do this.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Ask Carol about it, Ask any of the other survivors.
We love to just you know, be here to serve.
And he's like, no, absolutely not, Like I'm paying for
this shit. There were real people before you guys got here.
You guys are not real people. I'm not stealing goods
and services from the real people who you are currently
(03:26):
holding in your hive mind prison. So the hive mind
are like, okay, so it's like eight thousand and changed, basically,
can we write your receipt? And he's like yeah, great.
He also learns that he's in Panama. In other words,
he's made it to the other side of the Darien
Gap and can basically drive all the way up to Albertquerque,
New Mexico to meet Carol. Carol is at home hosting Zosia.
(03:49):
She's very nervous. It's quite it's quite charming, it's quite cute.
She makes some lemonade. Zosha compliments the the authentic Georgia
o'kee on the wall, and Carol tries to be like, oh, yeah, yeah,
you know I'm just keeping it here, you know, for
safe keeping, and I'm thinking about collecting other art because
(04:11):
of She goes on to say, like wild animal attacks
could be the reason, like that she's gonna collect priceless art.
But Zosha's like, yeah, don't worry about it, you know,
we don't care about that. I think it looks great here.
And then there's like an awkward silence because Carol, you know,
is still feeling things out. I think it's clearly developing
feelings for Zosha, but doesn't know how to grapple with
(04:36):
the reality of that. So Zosha suggests a board game,
which clearly she knows Carol loves board games. But they
come up against the problem, or at least Carol does,
which is, how do you play a game, a game
of strategy against all of the smartest people currently in
the world, which the hive mine are. You can't play
chess because the hive mind is like, you know, I
(04:59):
don't know how many great masters there are in the world,
but they're all of them, and et cetera, and so on.
Risk is going to be difficult. And I think this
is a really interesting metaphor actually for the for the
challenge that Carol and Manuso's face in trying to rest
the world back from the Hive mind, if indeed they
(05:20):
want to do that, because they are up against the
greatest living human strategists. So they end up playing spit,
which is a card game kind of akin to war
that I used to play as a kid, and now
I can't remember how it's played at all, but it's
going kind of, you know, it's back and forth game.
Sosha ask Carol, just kind of making small talk, Hey,
(05:44):
would you want to see your cousin. Your cousin's part
of us, you know, and you haven't seen him in
a while. And Carol's like, no, you know, if he
didn't ever come to see me before this.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Why would I want that to happen now?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And they're having a lot of fun playing this game.
Carol learns that all the people in Albuquerque will be
back soon. They they're you know, currently coming back in
waves and they'll be back in you know, like twenty
four hours or something like that. And she also puts
in a request, is oh to powerwash the white letters
off of her street, and it's again, it's very awkward.
(06:18):
It's clearly there's a feeling out process here where Carol is,
I mean, it's it's cute in a way. Zosha tells
Carol that, you know, everything is community space now. It's
basically like the best version of the most idealistic version
of communism that like Marx and Angles like absolutely dreamed
about when they were in the throes of imagination. Everybody
(06:44):
sleeps in the same few locations in order to you know,
make everything energy efficient and such. Zosha takes them to
the local sports arena, where Carol sees, you know, a
bunch of people's sleeping on the arena floor, all kind
of cuddling together, setting up their blankets. It's all very actually,
(07:06):
all very nice. There's a dog there. Zosia tells Carol
that they don't control the dogs, but when the dogs
a lot of times will stay bonded to the form
of their former owner, and then the hive mind takes
care of them, which is all very sweet. So Sha
asks Carol if she would like to stay overnight at
the sports arena. Carol is like, no, I think I'm good,
(07:27):
but then she does end up spending the night. She
kind of just dozes off in the warmth and acceptance
of the hive mind. Cuddling with Zoshia, and it's clear
that Carol is beginning to see different perspectives on the
Hive mind situation. Yes, it's troubling on many levels, like
this is an alien invasion, full stop. They're eating people
(07:51):
like soil it green, full stop. That's really bad. But
there is something about the warmth, the acceptance, and like
the overall community that she's seeing that adds a different
dimension to this experience.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
In Carol is.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Clearly trying to process all of that, and she goes
home by herself, opens up her whiteboard, stares for a
long time at the outline of her latest waikaro novel,
which you know she may or may not start, but
then eventually moves the whiteboard aside and writes on her
(08:33):
list of Hive Mind facts. They eat people underline, underline, underline,
as if to remind herself, like, yes, this is I
can see, I can see a different side of it. Yes,
I'm developing feelings for Zosia. Yes, like peace and the
lack of any kind of strife is actually quite nice
(08:54):
to see.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
They eat people.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Later, Zosha and Carol.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Go hiking, and Zosha is just like drinking up every
fact about Carol that Carol shares, and Carol they see
a train, you know, moving in the distance at the
at the bottom of the valley there it's an incredible vista.
And Carol's like, oh, you know, I love trains, and Zosha's.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Like, what, tell me, tell me more about this?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
What And Carol's like, oh, do you don't know about
Like I must have told someone at some point during
my life that I love trains?
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Did I not do that?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And Zosha in the hive mind don't know this fact,
And they're clearly there's this one interesting thing where they're
they know everything right, they have the totality of human experience,
but they can't really develop any new experiences or new perspectives,
and they're clearly hungry for it. Like when Carol begins
(09:48):
to share that, Zosha is like wrapped and and loves
hearing about this, and Carol basically says, like, part of
it is because the horn of a train, you know,
in the distance is the loneliest sound in the world,
and something about that resonates with her.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
And then a.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Second later, the train in the distance sounds its horn
and Carol asks, okay, so like how do you do that?
Like how does the hive mind? How are you all connected?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Like what is it?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And Zosha's basically like, it's kind of like electromagnetic waves
that the human body gives off and receives but that
you don't know how to access right now, but like
the infection has allowed us to access it, so they
kind of share this wavelength. They then go to get
massages and Carol is like, how do you experience this massage?
(10:38):
Because it's like you're giving it, but you're also receiving it,
and you're giving it to me, but you're receiving it too.
And Zosha tries to kind of explain what it's like
to be the hive mind and know at that very moment,
like how many people were just born and how many
people have died, and she she's like, there's this guy,
(11:02):
you know, and I forget where it was, like Bulgaria
or something, who just was impaled. He'll be fine. But
like all of this like granular understanding of the outer
reaches of the hive mind, as if like they were
fingers and toes on a single body, really freaks Carol out.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So Zosha kind of sensing that brings it back.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
To the massage, like but basically like the massage feels
really really good, feels great. Later, Zosha shows Carol where
the message, the alien invasion message originally came from, and
she tells her that they think, because again they don't know,
they have not received any actual information from the hive
(11:44):
mind message, it's just activated them.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
As a hive mind.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
They think that the original planet where the single came
from is like one huge ocean. So they all live
together in like this huge ocean. And Carol finally manages
to dial in the planet. It's Kepler twenty two B.
And the hive mind we learn on this planet are
so and this is what we were, right, folks, so
(12:10):
taken by the message and so thankful and grateful for
the unity and love and acceptance that it is given
them access to that they are they want to pass
it along. In Zosia's words, they are driven clearly to
at some point muster the world's resources to build and
other continent size antenna and spread the message. That's what
(12:34):
they want to do. Carol is a little chilled by that, clearly.
She then asks for more pens from Zosia, and so
she's like, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Because you're writing, we can't wait, like a new way, Cara,
that would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Carol lies and says, yeah, yeah, yeah, a new wi
Caral for sure, you know, Carol, And she again she
does spend a lot of time looking at the white
Carol board, but then she goes directly to her save
the world from the hive mind board to write stuff. Later,
Carol and Zosha played croquet and Zosha is absolutely fucking
crushing Carol because she is every croquet world champion that
(13:09):
was alive at the time of the invasion. She talks
a little bit of trash to Carol, which I found
quite charming, and I think Carol did as well. Zosha
asks Carol what was your best writing day?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Like, like what was that like?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
And why?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And then Carol's like, I don't know, it's hard to explain,
and you know, do you really want to know about this?
And then Zosha's like, I have some place to take you.
It takes her to a diner that had been closed
for years but is now back in business and just
the way that Carol remembered it. And this is the
place where Carol began her writing journey, trying to figure
(13:46):
out how to write while having a day job. And
you know, spending all her days at work and then
finding a place to write. And this diner was a
lot about that place. And she talks about that, the
hive minds eating it up. And then she looks up
and she's like, yeah, because she's talking about this waitress
that she remembered, who is so kind and like, without
(14:09):
knowing it helped her on her journey. And she looks
up and that there's the waitress. And then she's like, wait,
holy shit, that's the waitress. And this place burned down,
didn't it. You You built it from scratch, did you not?
And Zosha's like, yeah, we built it from scratch. And
Carol's like, God, I miss those days. But the more
she thinks about it, and the more she thinks about
(14:30):
this incredible expenditure of resources that they put into creating
this experience and bringing back the original waitress, Carol becomes
disturbed and she immediately she just like leaves with Soosha's
very confused. The hive mind is like what happened. Sosha
comes to see Carol at her house and Carol is
drinking and she's clearly in a weird mood, and she
(14:51):
wants Zosha to use I as a pronoun, not we,
and Zosha really has trouble with that, like that's a
hard thing for the hive mind to grapple with. And
then Carol begins to interrogate social about the waitress. Where
was she before all this? What was her life like
(15:12):
before the invasion? Where was she living when you made
her come all the way to Albuquerque and do this.
Zosha doesn't deny that there's a weirdness to this, and
there's a question of agency and all of this, and
there's a kind of like chess master moving people around
(15:33):
as pieces kind of aspect to this, and she doesn't
deny Carol's charge that actually, you're trying to distract me
from my mission to stop this infection, to roll it back,
aren't you, Like that's really what you want to do.
You're presenting me with all of these nostalgic things that
(15:53):
make me think of writing, because you want me to
write a new waikaru and not save the world. And
Zosha's basically like, yeah, but also like a lot of
the many people that are part of us love why
Kara and they can't wait for a new wayikaro. Carol
basically says listen, I'm never going to give up trying
to save the world. Okay, are you okay with that?
(16:15):
Zosh and Zosha answers by going in for a kiss,
which is like super weird, big big gamble on the
Hive Mind's part, but it works and they get together physically,
there's a physical joining. Later, the Hive Mind wakes up
to find Carol printing stuff out in her office, writing
(16:37):
and printing stuff out, and Carol asks Oosha to read
chapter one of the New Wayko and it's ten minutes
while Carol is waiting for Zosha to finish it. But
then Zosha comes down and she's like, I'm blown away
by this.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Raban is a woman. Now, oh my god, this makes
so much sense.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
And then they have like such a nerdy and fun
conversation about, well, how are you going to do it?
Are you just gonna retck on it where it's like,
you know, rebooting the series, and Carol insists and this
is so good that no, like, actually, I can do
it canonically, I can do it in world using this
(17:14):
and that mechanism, and they and they're both nerding out
about the way it could work and how it could
actually happen.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
And make sense.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Carol then ask Zosha in the singular, like you as
the person you as Zosha, what did you what did
you like to do?
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Like, what were your likes and dislikes? What was what
were your favorite things?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And Zosha again kind of like stumbles on the Wei
versus I, but she manages to share that she loved
mango ice cream and that there was a guy in
her city that sold it, and that when she was
a kid, she would go up to the hill overlooking
the harbor and she would watch all these ships coming
in and out, and she was like fascinated with the ships,
(17:56):
like and fascinated with the idea of who built them
and where are they going and who lives on them,
and where are all these places where they're coming to
and going from. And it's a really beautiful and very
human kind of remembrance. And in the middle of that
she freezes, and Carol's like, what's wrong, And then Zosha's like,
(18:23):
you're gonna have a visitor. And we know now that
Manusos is coming and we see him crossing the border.
Let's take a quick break and be back with super
producer Ian, who has figured out his Internet let's talk
(18:47):
about this episode that I think is one of the
best of the season and just incredible.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
I mean the turn.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I think what I most appreciate about it is you
so vividly understand what Carol is struggling with. It's like
the loneliness, the depression, the sadness, it's too much. She
hasn't she's fully cognizant that what's going on with the
Hive Mind is bad, but she's also seeing new perspectives
(19:22):
on it that haven't fully convinced her that it's worth
just forgetting about it and going with the flow.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
But right, there's different levels to it.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Now, there's this kind of clear warmth and community of
the Hive Mind, even if it's clearly marshaling itself toward
the goal of building some other huge antenna, right and
infecting another world, But there's like a warmth to it,
there's a community to it. There's the lack of violence,
the lack of you know, any kind of class race strife.
(19:56):
All the wars have stopped, and Soosha's really cool and charming,
Like there is that aspect to it, and it's the
episode does such a great job of bringing you along
and making you feel like, Okay, this is fucked up,
but also like let's just yeah, why not like rest
and just gather your thoughts in this kind of feeling
for a while. And that's contrasted with the figure Who's coming,
(20:23):
and I feel.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Like the blooming threat of Manuso's and.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I feel very, very concerned that Manuso's is coming and
he's gonna kill Zosha. I yes, feel like that's where
it's going. What are your thoughts about this episode.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
I love the episode for a lot of the reasons
you laid out, and I think, yeah, that seeing that
conflict brew within Carol throughout the whole episode is just
so fascinating and like super relatable, and like, I think
if I was in a similar situation, I would probably
be battling with a lot of the same feelings, you know.
I thought it was interesting because when the episode started,
(21:02):
I was like, Oh, maybe she really is kind of
coming around, you know, and is kind of embracing the
positives of the situation that she found herself in. You know,
she realizes she doesn't want to be alone, she doesn't
want to be isolated like that. But then as the
episode progressed, I was like, oh, Okay, No, she's like
hitting them with like a little bit of a reverse
Uno card. You know, she's actually just doing this to
(21:25):
serve her ultimate goal of still trying to stop them.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
And it's also like she is doing that because clearly
she's going back and she's you know, writing all the stuff,
the new intel that she's learned. You know that they're
bent on spreading the infection that you know, the underlining
of the fact that they eat people, as in as
if to say like, don't forget don't forget about that all,
(21:52):
don't forget about this. Right At the same time, you
get the sense that the hive mind, I mean, they're
not just like the greatest chess players, the greatest croquet players,
they are the most charming people.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Right. They rizzed her up in this episode. It was crazy,
and there.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Is there is this there is this like charming transparency
to them where they're like, listen, you know, are we
trying to disharpt you, Yes, but also.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
We love Woycaro and like.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
This is like we're loving this, you know, like the
way they are hanging on every word when she's talking
about the trains, and you know that sense that the
Hive mind. Though they have all the experiences that humanity
can offer, they can't really generate new ones, right, They
can't generate other new perspectives, and so they were so
(22:49):
hungry for this new perspective from Carol. That was I
think that that is there's something intoxicating about that. And
I'm not saying that Carol is going to forge get
about her mission, but there is also the sense that
maybe it's working a little bit, like they can slow
her down for sure.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
So when I was watching that scene, what I read was,
you know, obviously, when Carol explicitly calls out like you're
trying to distract me from my mission, Zosha goes in
for the kiss, and I'm like, oh shit, it's like
low key working. And then all of a sudden she's
inspired to start writing again. But then after I've sat
with the episode for a little bit, I was like,
what she genuinely inspired to start writing in from that moment?
(23:31):
Or is this again Carol trying to play for d
Chess and his in turn trying to distract the Hive
mind again by giving them this new book to put
focus their attention on, you know, because I think maybe
that's what Carol is doing is she's trying to like
one up them with an even bigger distraction.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I think you're right. I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I think she's playing the game for them, playing the
game back at them and saying, yes, yeah, it's working,
it's working. I also think that, like human nature tells
me that people can one of the most amazing things,
like I feel like people can do is rationalize what
they're doing to make it so actually I meant to
do this. I think that there's a world in which
(24:10):
Carol gets so wrapped up in the writing that the
Hive Mind actually succeeds. I mean that kiss huge gamble, right,
And I think that there's a world in which you
can imagine Carol being actually.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Disgusted, Oh for sure.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
But I think it's a.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Measure of how cunning and.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Good the Hive Mind are at their Ris game that
they took the gamble, probably with the idea that like
this is.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Actually going to work.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And it also made me think that maybe they're buying
time for your theory to start doing something with the
stem cells from the eggs.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Like I was, I found the.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Cold open of this episode it felt very important to
me seeing that blood Menusus's blood hit the floor because
I think, yeah, that bloo. I think they're going to
collect that and any material that they got from Manusa's
because I think it's important to me, right, and it's
important detail I think that they don't. I think if
(25:12):
Manuso's could have said don't operate on me and save
my life, he would have. And I think they could
have meaningly inferred that from everything he had done up
to that point, and yet they went against that to
save his life.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
So I do kind of feel like they can immediately.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Jump to using his genetic material in order to, I
don't know, maybe stop this looming threat that they clearly
see coming. Like Zosha was ye troubled by his approach
in a way that the Hive mind who told Diabate
about Carol's approach were not, like they were a little
(25:57):
like put off, But it wasn't like like Zosha seems.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
She seems scared your thoughts Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
I think this is kind of ties back into what
we were discussing on the previous episode. This is clearly
setting us up for a major confrontation when Manusos arrives,
and I think it's either gonna end with Zosia getting
seriously injured or dying, or Carol might have to fend
(26:23):
Manuso's off and end up maybe killing him. But I
think someone is not going to make it out of
this finale. I think it's gonna be like what you
said last week, it's going to be a careful what
you wish for situation because as we saw in this episode,
Manuso's clearly has a pensiant or a tolerance for violence
and physical harm against the Hive mind. You know, he
(26:43):
had the scalpel to the surgeon's neck in a way
that Carol to this point we have not seen her have.
So I think that's going to be a part of
the a central part of the conflict when they do meet.
I think he's gonna be willing to, you know, get
the job done through violent means, whereas.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
That Carol may balk at that.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
So I think it'll be really interesting to see how
it plays out.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, I am very very nervous about his appearance on
the scene, and that hostage taking scene made me think,
you know, we've wondered, like Manuso's like, what's his background,
I'm now wondering like soldier, here's the thing. Imagine yourself
for the first time coming to a place where your
(27:27):
decision making tells you, you know what I should do
is grab this scalpel and put it to this person's
neck to get out of here. That would never occur
to me. That's not a thing like, that's not the
first time he's done something like that. That's what that
tells me that this is a person who is used
to making these kind of extreme decisions.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
And to your point, I do. I think he's.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Gonna have a very militaristic idea about how to roll
this whole thing back. And I wonder if the choice
to infect him, potentially using the genetic material that they
collected during his surgery. I wonder if it's going to
be put into Carol's hands somehow, Like I wonder if,
(28:19):
like here's what I think might happen. There's an initial
meeting Zosha, I'm Carol and.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Manusos. Carol realizes.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
How one dedicated to the cause Manuslas is, but also
how scary and maybe there's something that threatens Zosha's life
and maybe she's injured. And then Zosha says, hey, I know,
we kind of have a solution, but we can't do
it because of consent or whatever. But we made the infection,
(28:52):
and if you infect him with this, because I don't
think they can do it, Like, I don't think that
they could, like even if they make the thing.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
They can't like inject him with it or whatever.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah, I don't think they can do that.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
So I think they would need Carol to do it,
and Carol will be faced with this dilemma.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
That's what I think could happen.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
That would be really wild. Yeah, Oh that's good. Hmmm.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Yeah, because I think this episode really explored the sense
of like duty versus connection, and particularly with Carol. You know,
she has not given up on her mission to save
the world, as we discussed, but at the same time,
she really is connecting with Zosha and seeing the beauty
in the hive mind like you said, and I think
(29:37):
she's she's torn because she's like, on the surface like
this is pretty good, Like I get it, but like
you know, she still feels a sense of duty to
set the world right. And she said, even if it means,
you know, I'm gonna be hated or alone or whatever,
I'm willing to make that choice to fix the world.
And I think if for nothing else, just to like
prevent everybody from starving, you know, yeah, because if nothing happened,
(30:00):
like they're eventually all gonna die. And like I don't
think she wants them to keep eating people either. So yeah,
it's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
And I think I think once they begin their big
antenna project, you're likely to see many more people die
because I think that is they're marshaling all these resources
and centralizing things one to keep the community efficient, which
is you know, it was honestly like really nice. You
(30:27):
couldn't help but be warmed by like the site inside
the arena with everyone, yeah, peacefully coexisting and it was
pretty sweet, right, But clearly that's so they can build
the big thing.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Right, And I think it's very likely that.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
That the deaths from starvation will only increase during that period,
And like what then I the other here's the other thing.
I I don't know. I was putting myself in Carol's
shoes a lot. And I also think like there's an
there's an aspect of like ego to being like it's
on me. I've got to stop this, don't you think,
(31:04):
Like I'm not saying what happened? Is right, But I'm
also saying like it's twelve against seven billion, you know,
like if you go by majority rules and what you've
kind of lost already, Like what do you what do
you think about that? And what would you do? Like
what would what would you do in Carol's shoes?
Speaker 5 (31:24):
I mean, yeah, I think it takes a sort of
like a rational level of confidence, like similar to like
a professional athlete or something to think like, okay, like
it's me versus seven billion, but I'm there be the
one to get it done. Yeah, But I think if
I was in her shoes, I would probably do more
(31:44):
of what Diabate is doing and just like kind of
try to make the best of it, because I don't
know if I would be able to try to figure
out out on my own, especially knowing that the other
people who are in a similar position to me like want.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Nothing to do with me.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
I think that would be tough.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I think the other thing that really scares me is
you know that that moment where accidentally Carol caused how
many deaths? Did they say it was like seven million
or something?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It was like a lot, it was it was in
the millions. Yeah, what is.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
The like, what is the acceptable loss rate for fixing
the world if you're going to fix it like that?
To me is the other thing, like how many millions
are you or hundreds of thousands or tens of thousands
or hundreds or dozens, what is the number that you
are comfortable with losing in order to potentially put things right?
(32:49):
And I'm not sure that that's like, I'm not sure
that's a choice that I'd be comfortable making in the
same situation as Carol.
Speaker 5 (32:59):
And that actually makes me think it's interesting, like we
haven't seen manusos cause that kind of like short out
to the hive mind yet, which I'm it's a little surprising.
So maybe it's something specific about Carol, But I wonder
if that maybe comes into play in the finale, Like
he does something so aggressive towards somebody in the hive
mind it causes a bunch of people to short out,
(33:21):
and maybe that kills a bunch of people and that's what,
you know, turns Carol against him or something. So I
think it'll be interesting to see how that plays out too,
because we know, you know, they react really strongly to
negative emotions.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
So yeah, Manusas is coming in with a shitloader.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
Negative emotions, so we'll see if that is a factor too,
But yeah, I think it's again just setting us up
for a wild finale.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
It's what's interesting to me is like that the Hive
Mind or whoever initiated this signal has they must have
had this problem before, right, like on whatever other planet
they've managed to transform, Like there must have been a
handful of like immune individuals right somehow. And it's interesting
(34:11):
to me that though the Hive Mind code unites, it
unites everyone, it has kind of like no other information.
It's just basically like, okay, you're all united, and in
that uniting they are clearly so grateful for the gift
they've been given that they want to send the message on.
(34:32):
But there's no script in there, no anything in there
about how to deal with the eventuality. That's not everyone
will be transformed, and that is I don't know, that's
interesting to me.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
Yeah, there's no like troubleshooting steps if something goes wrong. Yeah,
it's interesting. It is kind of like they you know,
like leaving them to their own devices. It's like, all right,
like you guys are born now here, you're out in
the world, like figure it out, you know, it interesting
And to that point, I think we did get a
lot of some really kind of big lore drops in
(35:06):
this episode. But yeah, it was very casually dropped and
then they kind of moved past it pretty quickly. But
I think that's a kind of par for the course
with the show, where Vince is just like, oh, yeah,
you want to know some more stuff. Here it is,
but like, that's not really what it's about. It's about
the connections between these characters. So, you know, we learn
about the planet where the signal comes from Kepler two
two six. But it's interesting that even the High Mind
(35:28):
is like, we don't really know much about the planet
or its inhabitants. We just know that we love them
and we're grateful to them for sharing this gift with us,
and we just want to keep spreading it out to
whoever else is out there in the universe. So I
honestly like wonder if there even was that kind of
knowledge of like what to do if something goes wrong
from that from Kepler two two six, or if that
(35:48):
was a similar situation where you know, the signal got
beamed to them and they just passed it on without
really much knowledge of its origin, and so I wonder
if we will find out more about that or if
that just going to kind of be like a looming
mystery of like we don't really know where it came from.
We just know we want to keep spreading it. You know,
what are your thoughts about about that and that information
that was revealed.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I think it's pretty fascinating. I also think that, like
the loard drop that kind of like broke my brain
a little bit was the fact that the infection works
by activating a latent ability for telepathy that human beings have,
like an ability to mind meld over the electromagnetic spectrum
(36:30):
somehow that just humans are not able to uh to
interact with because it doesn't add anything or take any
It just kind of like opens up that channel. And
that part of it was you know, really fascinating, really
really really interesting.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Yeah, when Zosha is like, oh, it's part of you know,
the human body's natural electromagnetic field, Like you have one too,
you're just like not tapping into it, that is really
interesting ideas. So I guess maybe the virus or the
code rerid it's your DNA in a way to allow
you to access that on a I guess subconscious level,
because she said there it's like breathing for them and
they're not actively using it like a radio. So oh,
(37:11):
and then that makes me think, is that the frequency
that Manuso's picked up on the radio? That electromagnetic frequency?
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Do we think?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I think that that's what it is? And I think,
you know, Manusa's is going to have some big brain
idea like, you know, let's go to that field of
huge antennas that we saw in episode one and let's
jam the signal or something like that.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I also think that I can't wait to learn more
about Manusos because I also feel like the way he
he's like, how did he know this was happening? He
must have picked up on it somehow, and because he
obviously Carol has sent him information and he's watched the video,
(37:56):
so he knows a certain amount in particular that you
know that this is some kind of alien invasion, et cetera.
But he also seemed like he knew that beforehand, like
that there was something that had that had signaled to
him that something was happening. And his like rage about
(38:17):
that is fascinating to me. And so when are we
going to get and I feel like it must be
the finale, right, when.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Are we going to get a backstory?
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yes, the backstory, It must be next episode, right, it
has to be.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
Yeah, because yeah, it is interesting because in the beginning,
when we first are introduced to him, he's already locked
down in the bunker. We don't really know how long
he's been there, how he found out. But then when
he gets that first tape from Carol, he is surprised
to learn that there are other people like him. So
he was siloed in that way where he knew some
things but not, you know, as much as Carol or
(38:55):
the other survivors knew. But then clearly he had interacted
with some other people before, like like when he was
leaving to go on his journey and he runs across
a person used to be his mom.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
You know. I think maybe that was initially.
Speaker 5 (39:09):
What like clued him in or something, when he was like,
you know, my mom was a horrible person, like you're
not her. Maybe that was when it first started. He
was yeah with his mom or something, and that's what
clued him in like something is not right. Yeah, I
think we're gonna have to get some kind of backstory
about where he was like the day had happened during
the joining or something. Maybe we'll get that flashback in
(39:29):
the in the finale.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Any predictions for the finale.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
I mean, but beyond just the big conflict between Carol
and Manusos, I think, yeah, we'll learn maybe a little
bit more about Manusa's backstory. I think I hope the
eggs come into play because that was like a really
big detail that's been left dangling. So I think that
(39:56):
will come into play.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Hmm yeah.
Speaker 5 (39:59):
I mean other than that, I'm like not really sure
where it's going to go, but I think we're we're
in for a doozy of a finale doozy. But I
think the main the main conflict is going to be,
you know, how is Manussa's going to react when he
sees how buddy buddy Carol has become with with Zosia
and and aspects of the Hive Mind situation. So be
(40:20):
fascinating to see how that plays out.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Well, thanks for joining us uh and getting over the
hurdle of your wonky internet. This show is just incredible, incredible.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
It's so good.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I mean, there's so much too, Like The The Clear,
I mean it you'd almost call it like a seduction
of Carol by the hive mind is so effective and
well done, and them sharing things about each other is
so interesting. I mean, I can't I can't get enough.
(40:59):
I'm I'm like love the show and I can't wait
for the finale. I'm really really worried that Sosha is
gonna get hurt or die. I'm very concerned, yes, very
very worried. It feels like it's got to be either
Manuso's or Zosia at this point.
Speaker 5 (41:16):
Yeah, definitely one of those two. Something bad is going
to happen to one of the two of them. There's
no way that they can all co exist, I don't
think peacefully. So yeah, we'll see what happens. But yeah,
to the last point, you were just making it that
is something I hadn't really considered until this episode. But
it's like, not only do they have the collective intellect
of you know, all the best pilot surgeons, doctors, chess
(41:37):
players in the world, but also like they have the
charm and charisma of the most charismatic people on the planet,
and they really put it on full display this episode.
You know, even like Zosha teasing Carol when they're playing
croquet and like that's like and them like joking around
and being like humorous like that.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
We hadn't really seen much.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Yeah, the little trash talk like all that stuff was
so good, and.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
They really turned it on on this episode to as
Carol called out, to distract her and manipulate her. And
I thought that was pretty sinister. Actually, the fact that
they like rebuilt the diner, moved this woman from like
Florida back to to Albertquerque just to appease or to
distract Carrol as like pretty that was pretty gross.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
So it's like oof.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
What I find like really sinister about it too, is
that it's also sincere, like the hive mind. Are all
these people right, like they're they're they're great, They're great strategists,
they're great manipulators, they're you know, uh, but also you
know lovers and empaths and fans of Waikaro. And so
(42:44):
while they're simultaneously planning to distract and dissuade Carol from
going through with trying to find a cure, and that
is very sinister, there's also the level of their sincerely
falling in love with Carol. Potentially they're sincerely like interested
(43:06):
in everything she has to say, they're sincerely fans of
Waikaro and can't wait for more, while they're also sincerely.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Trying to fuck her up.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Like it's all of that at once, which is it's
hard to get your mind around it.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
It's fascinating, and yeah, it's like it's so conflicting, and
like I can see why Carol is like so on
the fence and unsure of what's the right way to proceed,
because yeah, I mean that would be enough to make
anybody's head spin because they're actively trying to fuck with you.
But at the same time, like they also are, as
you said, so sincere in everything that they're doing. So
it's like where does that leave you? You know, Yeah,
(43:45):
it's it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
It reminds me in fact of like this. I think
I've talked about this on before. There's this book I
read Up the River, and it's about like colonialism in Africa,
and the narrator talks about how, you know, how destructive
and oppressive like Western civilization through colonialism is there in Africa.
(44:10):
He's he's a South Asian immigrant in Africa living in Africa,
which is under colonial rule, and and he says like
he's talking about like a statue that the Europeans put
up like in the town square, and he's like, you know,
the Europeans they want they want golden slaves like everybody else,
(44:31):
but they also.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
Want you to like be you all.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
They also want you to look at them as like
these great intellectuals and lovers of culture, with all these
other like with all these other positive aspects, despite the
fact that they want to do bad things, destructive things here.
And I think it's I think about it in the
same kind of way where it's like it's hard to
unwrap it all, Like the the hive mind have ill intent,
(45:05):
but they also have like good intent. They have there's
a part of them that wants to do the best
for you and they are true and it's more than
two things.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
And it's so.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Like complex to try and grapple with. I think Carol's
doing kind of her best, but it must be such
an incredible mind fucking who could blame a person for
taking the diabate route where they're just like, you know what,
I can't I don't know if I can necessarily fix this,
(45:37):
and I certainly can't fix this today. So like let's uh,
you know. Uh, let's let's play James Bond like in
Las Vegas and just enjoy ourselves.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, oh man, it's just such a good show man,
I can't.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Live I me neither. Finale coming up soon.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Stay tuned x ray Vision, where we're diving into continuing
to dive into Pluribus as well as start our coverage
of Fallout season two, and on the next episode of
Extra Vision, we're diving into non traditional holiday movies the
whole family can joy and discussing in the second episode
of Fallout season two. That's it from this episode.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Thanks for listening to.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie
Night and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wax.
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord,
Kenny Goodman and Heidi our Discord moderate them
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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