May 23, 2025 • 48 mins
Jason and Rosie are finally sinking their teeth into the movie of the year, Ryan Coogler’s Sinners! Plus, Jason's omnibus takes us even deeper into the history of the Choctaw–Irish bond from famine to Sinners. Then, Rosie sits down with the directors of Final Destination: Bloodlines, Zach Lipovsky and Adam Stein, to dissect some of the best horror moments in the franchise's history!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning, today's episode contains some spoilers for the some spoilers
for the twenty twenty five Ryan Coogler epic Sinners. Hello,
(00:27):
my name is Jason, getupcion and on Mersday Night, and
welcome back to Xtra Vision of the podcast where we
dive could your favorite shows, movies, collegs of pop culture
coming to you from iHeart Podcast, where we're bringing you
three episodes a week every Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, plus news
last news.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
In today's episode, you guys have been asking for it,
and honestly, we have wanted to do it because we
love Sinners and we do want to talk about Sinners.
But it's been of Ipmageddon, guys, it's been busy. So
now we're finally diving deep into Sinnas. We'll be having
a chat about the movie and what we loved about it,
and you are going to be blessed with ad Jason
Concepsion omnibus about some of the influencers and inspirations behind Sinners,
(01:11):
which is gonna be really cool.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
But first we need.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
To introduce you guys to a new segment on X
ray Vision and the new segment is called Popcorn Pop Outay,
me really exciting and good Welcome to our very first
(01:34):
episode of Popcorn Pop Out. It's a bite sized Friday
special where we prep for the weekend cinematic releases, get
a quick film history lesson, and hear from the stars
and creators behind your next favorite movie. Twenty twenty five,
I will say, is shaping up to be a landmark
here for cinema after twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I feel like it was a little bit down here.
It was a down here with double double strikes.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It kind of yeah, we started stuff we loved, but
it's more than just recognizable.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Ip.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Like, while we have our tickets for Summer classics, Jurassic World,
you know I will be there, comes out the day
after my birthday. Superman, Fantastic Form, Mission Impossible, How to
Train Your Dragon, Final Destination. But there's also a giant
list of directors releasing pictures this year that we can't
wait to watch, like bon June, Who, Steven Soderberg, Ryan
cooglerre They already kicked the door open for Paul Thomas Anderson,
(02:24):
Park Chamwork, Where's Anderson, Catherine Bigelow, Spike Lee, Paul Greengrass.
I'm putting the Philip Howeer Brothers in there, because I
just watched Bring Her Back and it was amazing. Jim
jar Moush, Giamma del Toro close back in Oh, I
love Jim jar Moosh. Guys, you're gonna get the most
annoying version of me and Jason talking about these old
art house movies. Yeah, Damian Chazzelle, Darren Aronofsky, ari Asta,
(02:48):
Benny Safti, Danny boy or Ryan Johnson, your Goss, I
love your gossl Anthemos and Gareth Evans who are all
still planning to release movies this year. Basically, it's a
smagas board of cinema and for our very first pop out,
we are revisiting Ryan Coogler's Sinners, and we are a
little interview with the creative team buying the upcoming Final
(03:08):
Destination Bloodlines, which is very.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Very good and we can't wait. But first let's talk
about Sinners.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Rosie Sinners, what an incredible cinema experience. I saw it
in those seventy millimeters panavision, gorgeous and at the vista,
and you know what, this is a movie that gets
better the more you think about it. It's an incredible
experience there. But it's there's so much richness to the film.
(03:40):
I can't wait to see it again.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I think what blew me about a way about the movie,
and I was very lucky. I got to watch it
at the Imax headquarters, which is where they edit the
Imax movie, so it was a true Imax screen and
I went in and I was expecting Coogler, I was
expecting horror. I was expecting vampires, just because less about
what they revealed in the trailers, which I do as
always think it could have been cool to see this
(04:04):
movie get that word of mouth hit of people not
knowing about that. But I already knew about this because
it had been rumored for a long time that it
was going to be vampires. What I didn't expect was
when I sat down in the cinema and the movie began,
and there was just this unbelievable, sprawling cinematography and yeah,
the most some of the most stunning stuff I've seen
(04:26):
set to film in a long time. The absolute breakout
performance of Miles Katton. I just thought the whole movie
was quite astonishing. And what I thought it did incredibly
well was it crafted a true four quadrant blockbuster. If
you just love vampires and you love Lost Boy Rules
and you want to see a vampire movie about that,
(04:49):
It's got you covered. If you want to see a
movie that allows like adult storytelling, fucking violence but it's
set in a period piece, if you want to learn
about Delta, Mississippi and the history of Chinese grocery stores, Like,
there are so many levels to this movie before you
(05:09):
even get to the blues, before you even get to
the fact that it's a black gangster movie with nods
to capone. There is so much here to break apart
that I think is just truly astonishing, and I think
it's a really astonishing piece of cinema. I absolutely adore
the practical work, and I also think something that for
(05:30):
me was really gorgeous about this film was it had violence,
it had horror, it had trauma, but it also had
hope and it also had It was also a story
about two brothers who get to find their own versions
of immortality, which I absolutely adored. I thought that it
was rioteously funny at parts two, which is some of
(05:54):
the cool. I think the balance between the action, the humor,
the music, the kind of transcendent exploration of the way
that music can connect to ancestral pasts and futures. That
sequence like made me cry. I also think something that
Koogler did that was really interesting and kind of unheard
(06:15):
of is he made sure the movie looked good for everyone.
I saw the movie in for Imax, but I also
saw the movie in a tiny screen at the Alamo
draft House, eating like the Sinners themed menu.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
It was just as good. It was just it was
just a different experience. And I think he.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Shot it down multiple formats to allow for multiple framings. Yeah,
and to have it look good for everybody, no matter
whether you're an Imax, semi mil whatever.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I think is really cool.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I think it's one of those films that will be
looked back on as a seminal movie.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
But I also think it's a rare seminal movie.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
That will also be looked back on as like a
great sleepover film and a great film that will be
studied at in film school, and a great film that
inspire storytellers.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
It walks on so many different levels.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
It's what I love about cinema, which is, you know,
I can kind of end up rolling my eyes when
when people start having these overly artistic kind of amorphous
conversations about the meaning of cinema and art and stuff.
To me, cinema the movies, it's about number one, like
(07:30):
are you entertaining people? This is an entertainment itedom And
then after you're entertaining them, are they are there deeper
levels to the entertainment?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
You know?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
And siners like.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Really has that in a way that's more profound the
more you think about it. And to kind of piggyback
off what you talked about, I love that this is
a movie about a period of American history and a
lace the Jim Crow South. That doesn't compress that story
(08:08):
into just a story about oppression and the oppressed. It's
a story about life and the variety and the richness
of the life there at that time. Yes, that that
was oppression was part of the story, and the fact
that the non white residents, the black residents of this
area had very little security in their homes and their lives.
(08:32):
At the same time, this is a story about people
creating this space, this jupe joint where life can happen,
where celebrations happened.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
In spite of the oppression, and that's how people survive.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And I think that I adore that aspect of this movie.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And I also think that this sets Coogler apart as
a kind of generational time. We knew that he could
do that with you know, Black Panther, and we knew
he could tell like intimate inspired by true life stories
with The Fruit Real Station, which is like obviously an
unbelievable movie, but also like he gets to have fun
(09:14):
here and he gets to put together all of his
creative collaborators and craft something that is incredibly specific. But again,
I think this happened with Squid Game. I think this
happened with everything everywhere all at once. If you make
something that is really specific and authentic and true to
the story you want to tell, there is a universality
(09:36):
in that that will appeal to people, and people will go, well,
I I connect to this part, and I connect to
this part. And even just like I think having like
a fat woman and obviously in this case it's win
Me Massako incredible, you know, fat black woman in a
space where she is like loved and lusted after and appreciated.
(09:59):
And two I don't know, I just there's so many
different levels. I think people are going to be talking
about this movie for so long, and I do think
when I came out of this movie, I said to
Warner Brothers, I said to my friend who works there,
I said, in a just world, this movie sweeps the Oscars.
And when I said that before the movie was out,
it seemed crazy to say that.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Well, I think I think there's a I think there's
a lane.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I think I think it's got Elaine.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I certainly think Coogler is going to get Best Director.
I certainly think he's gonna get Best Original screen Yeah, nominations.
I think the cinematography is going to be in there.
I think we get Ludwig Gore and Ericsson definites again
in there for soundtrack and a few other things.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I think, and they who knows, like but I.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Think there's a shot. I think there's a shot for
certainly nomination Best of It, definitely nominations. I definitely think
Best Original Screenplay is our best shot.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Though I do feel like for a movie and a
movie awards show, as Bongin who called it a local
awards show that is so heavily American, so focused on
American cinema, I feel like sinners should be the.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Only option when it comes to a sweep. I think
we could be.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
This is my far out prediction because in we are
far Out, We're over, We're like, We're over.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Like it's basically like a year.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Basically, my gut says it's gonna get like ten or
eleven nominations, but then we'll win like Best Original Screenplay.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
But I'm hoping.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
As I said when I first saw the movie and
me and Joelle kind of did our brief feedback, I
do think this could be this year's everything everwhere all
at once.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
I think it can keep playing.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Sure, it's back in the IMAX right now once Friendship
is a hit come back, which it's a huge financial hit,
which I think helps, but it's also a rare critical
and commercial hit where a score is really high. There
is a accessibility hit that means people will actually have
seen the movie and be rooting for it. But there
(12:04):
is also a quality of cinematography, of movie making, of
reference that makes this something that the Academy should be exploring.
This is my this is my far out as an
unlikely thing, which is in a just world Sinners sweeps,
but I also think post bring Her Back Sally Hawkins
(12:26):
following the Dememor route set from the substance. I think
that Sally Hawkins for Bring Her Back should be up
for Best Leading.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And I would love to see a world you know,
Final Destination. Put that in there for best effects that
movie and you know what, the.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
David Ayer Suicide Side Squad movie, a OSCAR winning movie,
some makeup. So I'm saying, put Final Destination in there
for special effects. I want to see a horror centric
Oscars next year. That's my that's my way out there.
Like not gonna happen, but I would love to see it.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I'm gonna talk about one thing that you mentioned, which
is that incredible scene when as the celebrations and the
duke joint and the music starts to really crescendo.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah, the Coogler brings in.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Like all the vast tributaries in the Great River that
springs from Black American culture, including hip hop, including.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You get a j all these other Yeah. I love
that when you see that he pitches in. He doesn't
just go for the ancestral past.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
He goes for like this goes into the future and
the future.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And you get that kind of Bootsy Collins esque And
that was when I was like I got core in
my throat, like, oh, he's doing something we've never seen before.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
It really made me.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
You know, hopeful is the right word that you used,
because I think, you know, one of the with all
the terrible things that can happen in the world, and
that we're happening at that time, and that maybe are
happening now. I think one of the things to take
away is that, you know, love doesn't this kind of hopefulness.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Love of community, love of humanity.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
It never it's never able to. It doesn't have the
strength in the moment to stop anything that's terrible, but
it has the strength over time to continue to inspire
people over the long term.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
And that's what it really got.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That's what really hit me in that in the middle
of that scene is like, look how people survive and
not just survive, but thrive under circumstances that are oppressed.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Imagine.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, and and to be able to put that in
the middle of a quote unquote genre film, it just
made me feel like we just joked about how it's
not good. You know, you're you saying it's going to
be horror Oscars twenty twenty six. It's not going to be, no,
but this is a this is a movie that absolute
like deletes the idea of genre. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that
(15:05):
genre is like less than or or should be less
than or shouldn't be thought of as something, you know,
intensely profound and meaningful, with something deeper to say than
just the stuff that's on the surface level text, which is,
you know, if you just whatever read the logline of
this movie or had somebody come out and just immediately
(15:27):
pitch you this movie after leaving the theater, it'd be like, okay,
this kind of genre bending vampire epic set in the
nineteen twenties South Like, you'd be like okay.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
But there's so.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Much more to it than that. And I do hope that.
I do hope, and I do think that it is
going to be there in Awards season.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I do see a lot of it in a conversation
because I also don't think it's going to be out
of the movie fas for a long time. People want
to see this in imax exhibit as, want to play it,
someone like Tyn Tino could keep playing it at.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
The Vista also as well.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I would say we've seen like Nope Is in continual
play in LA and sevent email and meters like every
few months. Everyone wants to see it that way as
it was, you know, meant to be seen, And I
would say Sinners and Note would.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Be a truly great double bill. But yeah, I'm very
excited for the future of this movie. I love thinking
about how I bet that Ryan Coogler and Michael B.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Jordan when this movie, like the lead into it, I
bet they were just sitting there like absolutely knowing, like shit,
we fucking like we really we really cooked at this.
So I'm like, I feel like I hope that they
were just like they knew that they had something that
was so special.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And I really I'm so happy to see the.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Way this has got people excited to go back to
movie theaters, excited to talk about movies, excited to make movies,
Like there's.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Just so much Rosie.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Is there anything about remis Vampire Pitch that had you
at any point thinking, you know, what if I was
out in the swamp somewhere and all of a sudden
we're under attacked by vampires.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
But then the.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Vampire comes and makes and is playing some some jaunty
music and makes me a picture about eternal life, and
I come with a smile. I think about it would
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I don't, no, no, no, I gotta tell you. I
would be like a number one sucker, like if.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
A vampire, I just can't help it.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Ever since I was a little kid, I knew that
if a vampire came to me, I would say, let's go.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I like it is funny because like I relate deeply
to the kind of memes where people are like, I'm
all life, I've seen enough, like I don't need them all.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, But at the same time, it's like, yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I do want to be a little I do want
to be a little vampire. I want to just be
like hanging out and like dancing. Well, then, I'm not
a banjo music fan, so I don't think this particular
band of vampires would have sold me on it.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
But generally I'm open to vampirism. Let me ask you this.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
You're a vampire, Okay, how do you feed? Are you
doing like bad people? Or it's just like listen, I'm
I'm a creature of nature, like a lion doesn't think
about is that a good will to beast or a
bad will? They're just eating? Which which philosophy do you
go with?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Think that a rich.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
You know, early on, I think all of us are
going to try and live that kind of like we're
just killing bad people, like we're just drinking that blood,
like it's just bad. But I'm sure that at some
point then it starts getting like really small. You like
see someone litter after one hundred years and you're like
that bad, Like that's you could have recycled that shit, babe,
(18:48):
Like it's time you're off. I definitely I don't think
I could live like the the Twilight you only drink,
you know, animal blood kind of kind of situation.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
How about you? What are you? Are?
Speaker 7 (19:00):
You?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Are you just? You're just a stone called killer?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I think, well, first of all, I I think like
you that I would. I'm susceptible to the pitch. I'm
not gonna say one hundred percent no, I'm not going
to do it. But if I'm like you know what,
I don't have the feistiness to be fighting dozens of
vampires tonight, I don't think I'm gonna make it.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I like that just lazy. Yeah it sounds and it does.
It doesn't sound bad.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
It sounds pretty good, like there are there's definitely upsides
to it. And then I think after the fact, should
I take the plunge? And my only you know, obviously,
like you, my only points of reference to what it
would be like are every vampire movie I've ever seen,
every story I've ever read about vampires, and then like
you know, allowing myself to be turned into a vampire
(19:50):
in Oblivion and Skyrim. So those are my only thing. Yeah,
those are my only touchdotes. I think like you, I
would be the same. I would be like, first, bad people,
I'm gonna just are going down the list, who's bad,
who's bad, who's like very loudly bad, and let me
see if I can stuck their blood and then and
not turn them. Yes, they don't get to be turned.
(20:12):
I think, you know, the turning is a very intimate thing,
and you I want to make sure that somebody's down
with it. Like really, I'd be like, listen, this is
gonna be a multi stage.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
PROCESSU consensual vampire where.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
It's really going to talk about what because you can't
there's no going back, so we're going to talk about it.
And then I think, like you listen, over time, over
hundreds of years, I can't. I can't promise that I
that standards wouldn't slip a little bit.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
We would try our best, but after a while, you're
just like really hungry.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Humans are annoying. Yeah, you guys are so annoying.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
But I would say, like, you know, as a vampire,
you could just like you could live off billion as
for a pretty long time with how many So I
think that would be like start at the top kind
of trickle downditors.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Were like jacking terrible billionaires.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, maybe maybe this If any vampires listening, let me
and Jason No, we might have a plan.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Okay, let's go to the Omlands and we're back.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Welcome to the Omnibus, where Lauren, analysis and understanding come together.
Today we're going to talk about kindred spirits, the Choctaw
Irish bond in real life, and its depiction here in Sinners.
In eighteen forty seven, as Ireland was ravaged by the
Great Famine, a remarkable act of compassion across the Atlantic,
(21:52):
A group of Choctaw leaders in Oklahoma, themselves survivors of
the Trail of Tears, forced March a decade prior, raised
a hunt undred and seventy dollars for quote, the relief
of the starving poor in Ireland, the equivalent today of
a bit more than sixty two hundred dollars. The Choctaws
people their resources were not great, but they gave what
(22:13):
they could to those who they saw as in great need.
The remarkableness of the gesture was noted even at the time.
Martin vent Shake, the chairman of the General Irish Relief
Committee of New York City, mentioned the donation specifically in
his report back to Ireland. As Choctaw historian Judy Allen
explained to the BBC quote, we had been through so much,
losing so many of our people through death because of
(22:33):
the weather, starvation, a disease that sixteen years later we
heard about the famine and the horrible situation that they
were going through.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
We felt such empathy that we wanted to help.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
The Choctaw donation during eighteen forty seven, what is known
as Black forty seven, the Famin's darkest year, forged an
unlikely bond between the two peoples who were separated by
an ocean. The only real link between them was a
common humanity, a common sense of another people's suffering, as
the Choctawn nation had suffered.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yet that was enough.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
This unexpected kinship had been passed down through generations, entering
Irish and Choctaw folk memory. It planted seeds of a
future friendship that would be rekindled and honored many times over.
Irish communities walk the Trail of Tears in a six
hundred mile fund raising trek in nineteen ninety two, raising
one hundred and seventy thousand dollars for famine relief in Somalia,
one thousand dollars for every dollar the Choctaw gave. In
(23:25):
nineteen ninety five, Ireland's President Mary Robinson, the first woman
President of Ireland, traveled to Oklahoma to thank the Choctaw
in person, and more recently, in twenty twenty, tens of
thousands of Irish donors sent over a million dollars in
COVID nineteen relief to hard hit Native American reservations. The
Irish have enshrined this relationship in art. In a park
in Middleton County, Cork, a stunning monument called Kindred Spirits
(23:49):
stands as a tribute to the choctaws generosity. The sculpture
consists of nine twenty foot stainless steel eagle feathers arranged
in a circle, forming the shape of a giant empty bowl.
Each feather is unique a sign of respect, symbolizing those
used in Choctaw ceremonies. The empty bowl of feathers points
to both the famines, hunger and the nourishment given. Unveiled
in twenty seventeen with Chalktaw representatives in attendants, Kindred spirits
(24:13):
is an enduring expression of gratitude and empathy.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
These people were still recovering from their own injustice, and
they helped strangers, noted one Irish official at the dedication,
calling it a rare and selfless generosity that had to
be acknowledged. Alex Pentech, the Irish The Irish artist Alex Pentech,
the Irish artist who created a monument, said he aimed
to capture quote the courage for Jilly and humanity shown
(24:37):
by the Choctaw people. The memorial thus serves not only
as a reminder of a past charity, but as a
celebration of resilience had shared hope. And it's fitting then
that this legacy of mutual compassion intertwined history finds a
new life in Ryan Coogler's Sinners, a modern vampire film,
and it's a testament to the rich call research and
(25:01):
history that Kugler did. One thread of the film follows
an Irish immigrant named Remick played by Jack O'Connell, a
vampire who is being pursued by a band of Choctaw
vampire hunters. Beneath the horror action of the film, Kugler
is engaging with deep themes of hunger, of colonization, and
cross cultural kinship. The film's premise was directly inspired by
(25:24):
real history. Kugler, in researching nineteen thirties Mississippi, discovered that
Chinese chalked on Irish communities all had a hand and
influence in the Delta's cultural life and music. Quote all
of them appears in Sinners, he says, a deliberate choice
to reflect a richer reality than one commonly used to
depict the Jim Crow South. As he notes in an
(25:44):
interview with Phillyvoice dot com, quote, it's very easy to
flatten the Jim Crow South just because the signs and
had colored and white on them.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
You think that's all the people that were there. But
that wasn't the case.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Remick, the vampire villain, embodies these themes in complex ways.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
He arrives as an outsider.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
From another world, an older world, one that pre existed
American racial hierarchies, and as an irishman turned on dead,
Remick carries the legacy of Ireland's own history of colonization
and famine. He is, in fact literally famished, literally starving,
a vampire driven by hunger, emerging from a nation that
new starvation. In one pivotal scene, Remic stands outside a
(26:23):
juke joint and begins to sing the Rocky Rote to Dublin,
a bouncy nineteenth century Irish folk ballad which tells the
story of an irishman who leaves home for Liverpool in
search of work, and once there he finds hardship, violence
and solace and protection in the kinship of his fellow
Irish immigrants. It's an ironic choice. Remick is using the
tune to tempt the patrons outside, offering them a chance
(26:44):
to escape Jim Crow Mississippi by joining him in immortality.
But as doctor Rachel Stewart of Brunell University in London
notes quote, the music he chooses, although catchy, is a
story of exchanging one form of suffering life in tu
him in Ireland during the height of English suppression, for
another life on the English Mainland, where the ballad tells
of victimization and violence, depicting in Sinners, Rocky wrote to
(27:08):
Dublin is the song of a predator promising escape while
secretly leading his victims into another form of exploitation. Coogler's
own love of Irish music and culture infuses this scene
and others with a genuine musical verve and dynamism, he
told the Filmmaker Toolkit podcast quote, I'm obsessed with Irish
(27:28):
folk music. My kids are obsessed with it. My first
name is Irish.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
He continued.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I think it's not known how much crossover there is
between African American culture and Irish culture, and how much
that stuff is loved in our community.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
See Sinners to really tap into that.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
An incredible movie, unbelievable stuff, and I love Jason, you
are the king of omnibuses.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
That was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Let's go to a message from our sponsors, and afterwards,
I will be speaking to the directors of the Delightfully
grow Tesque Final Destination bloodline about their inspirations the franchise
and sending off horror legends.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Tony Todd, Hello, guys.
Speaker 8 (28:21):
It's so great to speak to you.
Speaker 9 (28:23):
Yeah, great to talk to you.
Speaker 8 (28:25):
I absolutely loved the movie.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
It was fantastic, and I was lucky enough to take
a friend who is a lifelong Final Destination superstar and.
Speaker 8 (28:33):
He absolutely loved it amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I want to because I'm kind of lucky to get
a little bit more time with you guys. I would
love to know, like, what's your first memory of watching
Final Destination?
Speaker 8 (28:46):
When did that begin?
Speaker 7 (28:48):
I think for me it was FD two, And you know,
I think for a lot of people, the logging truck
scene kind of scars you, especially if you saw it
back then at an early age of sort of wow,
driving on a highway could be extremely dangerous, especially for
me because I grew up in Vancouver, which is where
all the FT movies were shot except for number four,
and so that highway that they shot that scene, and
(29:10):
I've been down many times, and I've been on the
rollercoaster from FT three, and I've been on the bridge
of FT five, and so all of those set pieces
are very very real for me and my growing up
in that city.
Speaker 10 (29:21):
I remember the plane scene, I mean, and to this day,
you know, whenever there's turbulence, I go probably because of
that scene. But you know, then as filmmakers, you know,
we really connected to the films even more because these
films are special. There's no antagonists like in other horror movies.
(29:42):
There's no monster in the woods, there's no guy in
a mask, you know, with a knife. It's really the
filmmaking that's creating the suspense. You know, those close up
shots that are all connected and that are cut in
the perfect way to create the maximums of suspense is
really something as filmmakers we've always relished and it was
(30:03):
such a joy to be able to create that.
Speaker 7 (30:05):
In this movie.
Speaker 9 (30:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Well, I at the screening that we went to in
La we did get a tease about how you guys
got this movie. So I would love if for our
listeners you could kind of explain what was your pitching
process like and how did you put together that really
unique pitch.
Speaker 9 (30:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (30:22):
Well, yeah, your listeners may not know that directors often
have to audition just like actors zoo to get these
bigger jobs, and part of that process is putting images
together and all your thoughts on the scenes and new ideas.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
And we did all that, but one of the.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Really hard things when you're pitching is to pitch tone
and Final Destination has a really unique tone. It's not
just scary, it's not just fun, it's all it's all
these things kind of mixed together, and so we wanted
to bring that to life for them, and we had
this crazy idea of basically having death come for us
at the end of our pitch and for the for
(30:58):
the executives watching, they had no idea any was going
to happen. So for them it was just as much
a surprise as it would be when you're in the
theater and we were pitching our the finale of what
we thought the end of the movie should be, while
the fireplace behind us was lighting the wall on fire,
and they all started pointing and being very concerned, and
we got up and quickly put the fire out and
turned on this big ceiling fan, and I'm running around
(31:19):
saying should I call nine one one?
Speaker 6 (31:20):
And then then we like calmed down and they all.
Speaker 7 (31:22):
Started up plouding, being like, oh, that's great, that was
very They kind of realized that it was a joke.
And then right at that moment, there was sparks that
came from the ceiling fan and it fell off the
ceiling and I jumped out of the way, and it
chopped Adham's head off and his blood went sprang everywhere,
and it was quite a surprise for them, and it
gave them the experience of watching Final Destination, and so
that was really important because we wanted them to know
(31:44):
that we knew how to build these types of set pieces.
Speaker 8 (31:47):
What was it like, top of your head chopped on that?
Speaker 9 (31:49):
You know, I know he's always trying to get rid
of me.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
So why was it so important for you guys to
not just showcase that you understand the tone, which is important,
but also you brought something else in that moment, which was, hey,
we can do VFX, we can make this look real.
Could you talk a little bit about kind of putting
that on the screen.
Speaker 9 (32:11):
You know what it was for me?
Speaker 10 (32:13):
It was the joy bringing the joy in and showing
them that like, not only do we get how to
do this technically, but that we can bring our sort
of creativity to the franchise in unexpected ways. Kind Of
when you're pitching sometimes, I'm sure you know filmmakers in
(32:34):
your audience or actors in your audience can relate to this.
It can kind of feel like a slog. You know,
you're trying to get these jobs. You're trying to do
self tapes.
Speaker 8 (32:44):
Everything's inn ip you're trying.
Speaker 10 (32:46):
To you're trying to prove that you can do it
and to bring our joy of filmmaking into that process
and make like a little mini movie that we could
entertain them with. That's I think what made it feel
so special.
Speaker 8 (33:02):
The most incredible thing about that I think I heard
is there.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Was no one recording it right, even though most pictures
are recorded, so it's never going on the Blu ray.
Speaker 10 (33:10):
They've been kicking themselves because I think they you know,
they hit record on some of the pitches and they
just forgot to do ours or something.
Speaker 8 (33:17):
I love that.
Speaker 10 (33:19):
And the fact that it was a live experience, I
think is what also made it feel special. That like
those you know, twenty people who were on that zoom
are the only people who could ever expecience exactly made
it feel you know, extra special.
Speaker 8 (33:34):
Well, you kind of touched on the joy. I think
this is the funniest final destination.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I think it's it has some of the most brutal,
scary kills, but it also has the most kind of
on screen, non contextual, non tongue in cheek kind of laughs.
So could you talk about kind of bringing after you know,
fourteen years, like kind of bringing that new layer to
the films.
Speaker 7 (33:55):
I think we always wanted to create a film where
you're watching it through your fingers because it's super intense,
but you also have a huge smile on your face.
And I think Adam and I just have an incredibly dark,
twisted sense of humor, where the darker it gets, the
funnier we think it gets. And I think a lot
of the humor that we wanted to bring out aren't
necessarily jokes. They're not necessarily one liners. They're just the
(34:17):
emergent humor that comes out of how insane the situation is.
And we always kind of keep asking ourselves when we're
working on those scenes, like.
Speaker 6 (34:23):
What would it feel like to be in the situation?
And what would you say? And what would you do?
Speaker 7 (34:27):
And if you knew that you could only you know,
live for the years of however much someone had if
you killed them, well, wouldn't you try and kill the
youngest person possible? And wouldn't that and wouldn't that be
hilarious to put in the movie? And like, just like
those types of things, it all comes from the that
emerge the humor emerges out of the situation, and I think.
Speaker 10 (34:46):
People especially now want to be in the theater having
that experience with it in a communal way, you know,
to scream when everyone else is screaming, and laugh when
everyone else is laughing, and feel all of those feelings.
If the crowd is such a special, special thing.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, Well, in twenty twenty five, when a lot of
movies are not going to theaters, and obviously we are
currently living in a moment where everyone is loving to
go to the theater because of a horror movie with sinners,
what was it like for you guys to make a
movie that was exactly always going to be for that.
It's not going to streaming, it's not going to be
second screen. It is about the people in the cinema
going like, oh, Mike, well I can't watch that, or
(35:24):
everyone kind of laughing when you think somebody's gotten away,
And there are many many moments like that in this movie.
So how fun was it to be able to go
into it knowing you're making a cinematic experience.
Speaker 10 (35:35):
That was our first and foremost goal the entire time,
is make this a movie that's so special to experience
with other people that you have to see it in theaters.
A big part of that was actually working with Imax people.
From the very beginning, we knew this movie was going
to be in Imax. We were crafting it for the
big screen to have that intensity and that delight of
(35:57):
how intense it could be on a big screen and
also craft. You know, one of the things that was
really fun while working with the Imax people is they
really encouraged us to use that aspect ratio change as
a creative tool, not just you know, suddenly cut to it,
but how can you guys use this as a creative tool.
And we had the idea to use it as a
(36:20):
signal of death being present. So we designed for each
death sequence a specific shot that pushes in in a
very creepy, slow way, and that's when it expands to
Imax and it gives you that feeling that death is here,
and you know, for people who don't know to look
out for it, it just has this feeling of extra
(36:42):
ominous intensity. But for fans who know to look for that,
it's similar to the way death arrives on the wind
or with a music cue, except now there's a visual
symbol too. There's a moment where you can actually see
death arrive on the scene, which is just so much fun.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, that's amazing, and I've feel like people are extra
prime to understand Imax understand those aspect ratios because of Ryan.
Speaker 8 (37:05):
And Sinners, which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Something else that I really loved about this film is
I am like a law lover, like lor Everyone.
Speaker 8 (37:14):
Always rags on me.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
They're like, oh, you love the law. I'm like, it's
not that kind of law. This is a movie that's
heavily invested in final destination law. So, as fans, what
was it like to get to play in the sandbox
but also expand it because we get new backstories here
for fan favorite characters, we get a new understanding of
how death works.
Speaker 8 (37:32):
So could you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
That kind of expansion while also getting to pull from
so many different sources, because I think a lot of
the early reviews are like, wow, I did not expect
that reference. I did not expect you to care about
this one, which is my favorite movie, you know, So
could you talk a little bit.
Speaker 7 (37:50):
Yeah, that was very much by design from the beginning.
You know, We're we come at it as fans of
the franchise and FT five had one of the best
endings that felt like it wrapped up even the franchise
so well. So when we heard they were making another one,
our kind of primary question was why what are they.
Speaker 6 (38:07):
Doing here that it deserves to have another one?
Speaker 7 (38:11):
And we really approached it from the perspective of, let's
make sure that it doesn't break anything from the previous movies,
but it's adding and twisting it in a way that's
new because we want the audience, especially the super fans
of the franchise, to never know where a movie's going next.
That's what makes you lean forward, that's what makes we
(38:31):
think for a really great experience in the theater is
I have no idea where this is going. And Final
Listenation has a structure to it that is very well understood.
You have an opening set piece, it's a premonition. All
these people are marked for death, and it goes one
by one all the way through that list, and we
wanted to make sure to take that structure and then
twist it and bend it in new ways that feel
(38:55):
like they break the cannon. But then slowly, as the
movie progresses, you realize it doesn't break the canon. It
actually borrows on all sorts of delicious rules that we
know and love, and that was really exciting to us
as fans of the franchise to both kind of honor
the movies that have come before it, but also offer
something new.
Speaker 10 (39:13):
We also filled it chock full of Easter eggs for
the fans. You know, every license plate, every little little
note scrawled in in the book or in the maitre
D's book or on the wall of the tattoo parlor,
they're all just filled with Easter eggs that that you know,
fans will We'll see, maybe maybe you take multiple viewings
(39:35):
to really unpack.
Speaker 9 (39:36):
We're still discovering things.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I was going to say because so many people who
made it must and fans, so those people impost.
Speaker 9 (39:42):
That Easter well.
Speaker 10 (39:43):
And in the art department, you know, we encouraged everyone
to put in Easter eggs without even telling us I
love this, so that you know there could always be
multiple layers that you're unpacking. And you mentioned, you know,
you hinted at Bloodworth's character. Another thing that was really
important for us as we were working with Tony, you
know and the writers on the script, is to give
(40:05):
him more of a backstory and more of an understanding
of where blood Worth came from and why he cares
so much about death, why he knows so much, why
he's so focused on understanding the premonitions of all the
characters in the previous movies, and to do it in
a way that you know, made him more than just
(40:25):
a mysterious mentor figure yes that comes in and gives
advice and disappears. How do we really understand him more
on a human level? And that was something he was
really excited about. You know, he's always relished the fan
theories of who blood Worth is, but also it was
just so excited to kind of explore him as an
(40:46):
individual and as a person.
Speaker 9 (40:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I have a friend, a really fantastic Cora or the
Good Endship and Fitzpatrick, and she loves these movies. But
her one big thing has always been I want to
know more about blood Worth, Like does he fit into
a trope of just being someone who helps? Does he
ever just say like go away, yeah please, I've had enough?
And does he ever get to like have his own story?
And I texted her as soon as I go out
of the movie there, and I was like, you were
(41:08):
going to love this movie, and I, like you had
been absolutely love it, and I do think it's one
of the coolest parts of the movie. And I would
love to talk to you a little bit about that,
Like what was it like to work with Tony to
get to collaborate, because we also learned at the screening
that his final words those are his words, right, So
could you talk a little bit about getting to kind
of Yeah, it was pay homage to him, but also
collaborate with him.
Speaker 9 (41:29):
He's such an icon, he's such an honor.
Speaker 7 (41:31):
Yeah, he came to set and it was a really
special moment for a bunch of reasons, all at the
same time. He was so charming and so excited to
be there and cracking jokes, and everyone was just amazed
at kind of the vitality that he had despite the
fact that he physically was obviously extremely weak. So we
knew going into this movie when we were crafting the
(41:51):
story that he was ill, and so all of the
details of sort of his character were with that in
mind and working with him very closely to figure out
like we were just saying, not only do how do
we give him a beginning, but how do we give
him an end?
Speaker 6 (42:05):
How do we say goodbye to this character, and how
does he want to do that?
Speaker 7 (42:09):
And in that moment that you were just talking about,
when at the very end of that scene there was
stuff we'd written in planned, but we just wanted to
give him a chance to just speak from the heart
because the experience we'd been having him with him that
day was so meaningful and we could tell that he
had so many different emotions going on, just said, what
has this all been about? You know, what is life about?
What is death about? What are you thinking about? Just
(42:32):
speak to the audience, And that take that's in the
film is him speaking from the heart. And you can
really tell when you watch that scene that there's an
icon kind of saying goodbye to the audience there and
leaving us with a message of hope and beauty, which
is something that we've really taken after that moment.
Speaker 8 (42:51):
Yeah, I thought it was such a special moment. It
was so much fun.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
And also it's like kind of I love how in
conversation it is with like the audience, with fans, but
also it's got a dark hilarity to it because then
you go on to some of the worst deaths.
Speaker 8 (43:08):
Like the most so it's not like denying what the
films are, but it gives him that moment which is
really just completely lovely.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
How does it feel now you've done the work, you've
worked with the legends, How does it feel for the
movie to almost be out there and to be a
tangible thing that fans are going to see, that people
are going to get to throw popcorn up in the air.
You're starting to see those first responses of the audiences.
Speaker 8 (43:32):
How does that feel?
Speaker 10 (43:33):
I mean, my favorite thing is to is to hear
from people who are big fans who really love the movie,
you know, because because you know, it's a bit nerve
wracking to make a new installment of such a beloved
franchise and not know how people are going to respond
to it, and to start hearing from people who saw
(43:54):
the movie and absolutely loved it, just you know, I mean,
what more can.
Speaker 9 (43:57):
You ask for?
Speaker 8 (43:58):
Yeah? How does it feel?
Speaker 1 (44:00):
You?
Speaker 6 (44:00):
It's a dream come true?
Speaker 7 (44:01):
I mean, as filmmakers, you start making movies when you're
in your house with your friends running around with the
camera and spring tomato sauce over them as they die horribly,
and to kind of be able to bring to life
a beloved franchise and kind of doing it from the
perspective of a fan wanting other fans to love it.
(44:22):
It's so much fun to see those fans now getting
to enjoy it and being thankful that they get a.
Speaker 6 (44:27):
Little bit more of what they love. Is really really
special as a filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah, the title of my review was like final Destination.
Bloodlines knows exactly what we want and gives it to us.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
So I think you guys deliver it on that front.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Awesome when you're going back rewatching the movies, just kind
of immersing yourself in the world.
Speaker 8 (44:46):
Was there like a moment or.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
A movie that kind of stood out for you more
than you expected when you were revisiting from the original franchises.
Speaker 6 (44:54):
You know what, we.
Speaker 10 (44:56):
Were big fans, and we became even more super nerves
just because the first thing we did when we were
hired was break down every single death on a spreadsheet
exactly how many omens it had, how many dominoes to
the route Goldberg, you.
Speaker 9 (45:11):
Know how successful it was on a scale of one
to ten.
Speaker 10 (45:15):
And we put the deaths into categories and made sure
that we never repeated ourselves and all that stuff. But
there were several deaths that became kind of touch points
some of our favorite deaths that inspired some of the
set pieces. So for example, the screw on the balance
beam from FD five, which is just such a delightful
(45:36):
exercise masterclass in suspense. You're watching a screw, the tiniest
thing possible. You're watching a bunch of feet miss the screw.
Nothing's happening, and you're just cringing and on the edge
of your seat watching. That really was inspirational for the
barbecue sying with the glass and the cup and how
(45:59):
can we make the audience cringe but then bring that
object in in an unexpected way into the roupe goldbrigs.
You can't just swallow the glass, you can't just step
on the screw. You have to bring it in in
a way that nobody expected.
Speaker 9 (46:14):
So that was one.
Speaker 10 (46:15):
Another one was this what we call the spaghetti death
and FT two, where the guy throws the spaghetti out
the window. A bunch of other stuff happens, you completely
forget about the spaghetti and then he at the very end,
he slips on the spaghetti and that's what kills him.
Speaker 9 (46:29):
So that was.
Speaker 10 (46:30):
Inspirational for let's say the hospital death sees that comes
later where you set something up and then you kind
of forget about it, and then it comes in at
the very end. So we definitely were inspired by a
lot of the deaths that came before, but using them
in new ways, you know, and uh, you know, all
(46:50):
to keep the audience on their toes.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, I would love to see those breakdowns. That's incredibly fun.
That's real fun.
Speaker 8 (46:59):
Is there a no context spoiler that you are most
excited for people to see?
Speaker 6 (47:06):
No context spoiler for me would be the poster of
FT five.
Speaker 8 (47:12):
Yeah, okay, I love this. Thank you both so much.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
I appreciate you for joining us. The movie is great
and it was a total joy to talk to you guys,
so thank.
Speaker 9 (47:20):
You so much.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Next week on x ray Vision, Tuesday, we take one
final visit to Jackson Hall as we review the season
two finale of The Last of Us. Wednesday, we're reacting
to Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning. Thursday, the Council gathers
to discuss season two.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Of the Last of Us.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Friday, we're diving deep into the action set pieces of
Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
Saturday News.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jesus Upson and Rosie Knight.
And is a production of Iheard Podcasts. Our Executive producers
are Jeelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman are super as in
producer is a Booze Afar. Our producers are Carmen Lawn
and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi our discord moderator.
Warning, today's episode contains some spoilers for the some spoilers
for the twenty twenty five Ryan Coogler epic Sinners. Hello,
(00:27):
my name is Jason, getupcion and on Mersday Night, and
welcome back to Xtra Vision of the podcast where we
dive could your favorite shows, movies, collegs of pop culture
coming to you from iHeart Podcast, where we're bringing you
three episodes a week every Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, plus news
last news.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
In today's episode, you guys have been asking for it,
and honestly, we have wanted to do it because we
love Sinners and we do want to talk about Sinners.
But it's been of Ipmageddon, guys, it's been busy. So
now we're finally diving deep into Sinnas. We'll be having
a chat about the movie and what we loved about it,
and you are going to be blessed with ad Jason
Concepsion omnibus about some of the influencers and inspirations behind Sinners,
(01:11):
which is gonna be really cool.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
But first we need.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
To introduce you guys to a new segment on X
ray Vision and the new segment is called Popcorn Pop Outay,
me really exciting and good Welcome to our very first
(01:34):
episode of Popcorn Pop Out. It's a bite sized Friday
special where we prep for the weekend cinematic releases, get
a quick film history lesson, and hear from the stars
and creators behind your next favorite movie. Twenty twenty five,
I will say, is shaping up to be a landmark
here for cinema after twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I feel like it was a little bit down here.
It was a down here with double double strikes.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It kind of yeah, we started stuff we loved, but
it's more than just recognizable.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Ip.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Like, while we have our tickets for Summer classics, Jurassic World,
you know I will be there, comes out the day
after my birthday. Superman, Fantastic Form, Mission Impossible, How to
Train Your Dragon, Final Destination. But there's also a giant
list of directors releasing pictures this year that we can't
wait to watch, like bon June, Who, Steven Soderberg, Ryan
cooglerre They already kicked the door open for Paul Thomas Anderson,
(02:24):
Park Chamwork, Where's Anderson, Catherine Bigelow, Spike Lee, Paul Greengrass.
I'm putting the Philip Howeer Brothers in there, because I
just watched Bring Her Back and it was amazing. Jim
jar Moush, Giamma del Toro close back in Oh, I
love Jim jar Moosh. Guys, you're gonna get the most
annoying version of me and Jason talking about these old
art house movies. Yeah, Damian Chazzelle, Darren Aronofsky, ari Asta,
(02:48):
Benny Safti, Danny boy or Ryan Johnson, your Goss, I
love your gossl Anthemos and Gareth Evans who are all
still planning to release movies this year. Basically, it's a
smagas board of cinema and for our very first pop out,
we are revisiting Ryan Coogler's Sinners, and we are a
little interview with the creative team buying the upcoming Final
(03:08):
Destination Bloodlines, which is very.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Very good and we can't wait. But first let's talk
about Sinners.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Rosie Sinners, what an incredible cinema experience. I saw it
in those seventy millimeters panavision, gorgeous and at the vista,
and you know what, this is a movie that gets
better the more you think about it. It's an incredible
experience there. But it's there's so much richness to the film.
(03:40):
I can't wait to see it again.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I think what blew me about a way about the movie,
and I was very lucky. I got to watch it
at the Imax headquarters, which is where they edit the
Imax movie, so it was a true Imax screen and
I went in and I was expecting Coogler, I was
expecting horror. I was expecting vampires, just because less about
what they revealed in the trailers, which I do as
always think it could have been cool to see this
(04:04):
movie get that word of mouth hit of people not
knowing about that. But I already knew about this because
it had been rumored for a long time that it
was going to be vampires. What I didn't expect was
when I sat down in the cinema and the movie began,
and there was just this unbelievable, sprawling cinematography and yeah,
the most some of the most stunning stuff I've seen
(04:26):
set to film in a long time. The absolute breakout
performance of Miles Katton. I just thought the whole movie
was quite astonishing. And what I thought it did incredibly
well was it crafted a true four quadrant blockbuster. If
you just love vampires and you love Lost Boy Rules
and you want to see a vampire movie about that,
(04:49):
It's got you covered. If you want to see a
movie that allows like adult storytelling, fucking violence but it's
set in a period piece, if you want to learn
about Delta, Mississippi and the history of Chinese grocery stores, Like,
there are so many levels to this movie before you
(05:09):
even get to the blues, before you even get to
the fact that it's a black gangster movie with nods
to capone. There is so much here to break apart
that I think is just truly astonishing, and I think
it's a really astonishing piece of cinema. I absolutely adore
the practical work, and I also think something that for
(05:30):
me was really gorgeous about this film was it had violence,
it had horror, it had trauma, but it also had
hope and it also had It was also a story
about two brothers who get to find their own versions
of immortality, which I absolutely adored. I thought that it
was rioteously funny at parts two, which is some of
(05:54):
the cool. I think the balance between the action, the humor,
the music, the kind of transcendent exploration of the way
that music can connect to ancestral pasts and futures. That
sequence like made me cry. I also think something that
Koogler did that was really interesting and kind of unheard
(06:15):
of is he made sure the movie looked good for everyone.
I saw the movie in for Imax, but I also
saw the movie in a tiny screen at the Alamo
draft House, eating like the Sinners themed menu.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
It was just as good. It was just it was
just a different experience. And I think he.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Shot it down multiple formats to allow for multiple framings. Yeah,
and to have it look good for everybody, no matter
whether you're an Imax, semi mil whatever.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I think is really cool.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I think it's one of those films that will be
looked back on as a seminal movie.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
But I also think it's a rare seminal movie.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
That will also be looked back on as like a
great sleepover film and a great film that will be
studied at in film school, and a great film that
inspire storytellers.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
It walks on so many different levels.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
It's what I love about cinema, which is, you know,
I can kind of end up rolling my eyes when
when people start having these overly artistic kind of amorphous
conversations about the meaning of cinema and art and stuff.
To me, cinema the movies, it's about number one, like
(07:30):
are you entertaining people? This is an entertainment itedom And
then after you're entertaining them, are they are there deeper
levels to the entertainment?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
You know?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
And siners like.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Really has that in a way that's more profound the
more you think about it. And to kind of piggyback
off what you talked about, I love that this is
a movie about a period of American history and a
lace the Jim Crow South. That doesn't compress that story
(08:08):
into just a story about oppression and the oppressed. It's
a story about life and the variety and the richness
of the life there at that time. Yes, that that
was oppression was part of the story, and the fact
that the non white residents, the black residents of this
area had very little security in their homes and their lives.
(08:32):
At the same time, this is a story about people
creating this space, this jupe joint where life can happen,
where celebrations happened.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
In spite of the oppression, and that's how people survive.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And I think that I adore that aspect of this movie.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And I also think that this sets Coogler apart as
a kind of generational time. We knew that he could
do that with you know, Black Panther, and we knew
he could tell like intimate inspired by true life stories
with The Fruit Real Station, which is like obviously an
unbelievable movie, but also like he gets to have fun
(09:14):
here and he gets to put together all of his
creative collaborators and craft something that is incredibly specific. But again,
I think this happened with Squid Game. I think this
happened with everything everywhere all at once. If you make
something that is really specific and authentic and true to
the story you want to tell, there is a universality
(09:36):
in that that will appeal to people, and people will go, well,
I I connect to this part, and I connect to
this part. And even just like I think having like
a fat woman and obviously in this case it's win
Me Massako incredible, you know, fat black woman in a
space where she is like loved and lusted after and appreciated.
(09:59):
And two I don't know, I just there's so many
different levels. I think people are going to be talking
about this movie for so long, and I do think
when I came out of this movie, I said to
Warner Brothers, I said to my friend who works there,
I said, in a just world, this movie sweeps the Oscars.
And when I said that before the movie was out,
it seemed crazy to say that.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Well, I think I think there's a I think there's
a lane.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I think I think it's got Elaine.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I certainly think Coogler is going to get Best Director.
I certainly think he's gonna get Best Original screen Yeah, nominations.
I think the cinematography is going to be in there.
I think we get Ludwig Gore and Ericsson definites again
in there for soundtrack and a few other things.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I think, and they who knows, like but I.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Think there's a shot. I think there's a shot for
certainly nomination Best of It, definitely nominations. I definitely think
Best Original Screenplay is our best shot.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Though I do feel like for a movie and a
movie awards show, as Bongin who called it a local
awards show that is so heavily American, so focused on
American cinema, I feel like sinners should be the.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Only option when it comes to a sweep. I think
we could be.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
This is my far out prediction because in we are
far Out, We're over, We're like, We're over.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Like it's basically like a year.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Basically, my gut says it's gonna get like ten or
eleven nominations, but then we'll win like Best Original Screenplay.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
But I'm hoping.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
As I said when I first saw the movie and
me and Joelle kind of did our brief feedback, I
do think this could be this year's everything everwhere all
at once.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
I think it can keep playing.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Sure, it's back in the IMAX right now once Friendship
is a hit come back, which it's a huge financial hit,
which I think helps, but it's also a rare critical
and commercial hit where a score is really high. There
is a accessibility hit that means people will actually have
seen the movie and be rooting for it. But there
(12:04):
is also a quality of cinematography, of movie making, of
reference that makes this something that the Academy should be exploring.
This is my this is my far out as an
unlikely thing, which is in a just world Sinners sweeps,
but I also think post bring Her Back Sally Hawkins
(12:26):
following the Dememor route set from the substance. I think
that Sally Hawkins for Bring Her Back should be up
for Best Leading.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And I would love to see a world you know,
Final Destination. Put that in there for best effects that
movie and you know what, the.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
David Ayer Suicide Side Squad movie, a OSCAR winning movie,
some makeup. So I'm saying, put Final Destination in there
for special effects. I want to see a horror centric
Oscars next year. That's my that's my way out there.
Like not gonna happen, but I would love to see it.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I'm gonna talk about one thing that you mentioned, which
is that incredible scene when as the celebrations and the
duke joint and the music starts to really crescendo.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah, the Coogler brings in.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Like all the vast tributaries in the Great River that
springs from Black American culture, including hip hop, including.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You get a j all these other Yeah. I love
that when you see that he pitches in. He doesn't
just go for the ancestral past.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
He goes for like this goes into the future and
the future.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And you get that kind of Bootsy Collins esque And
that was when I was like I got core in
my throat, like, oh, he's doing something we've never seen before.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
It really made me.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
You know, hopeful is the right word that you used,
because I think, you know, one of the with all
the terrible things that can happen in the world, and
that we're happening at that time, and that maybe are
happening now. I think one of the things to take
away is that, you know, love doesn't this kind of hopefulness.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Love of community, love of humanity.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
It never it's never able to. It doesn't have the
strength in the moment to stop anything that's terrible, but
it has the strength over time to continue to inspire
people over the long term.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
And that's what it really got.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That's what really hit me in that in the middle
of that scene is like, look how people survive and
not just survive, but thrive under circumstances that are oppressed.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Imagine.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, and and to be able to put that in
the middle of a quote unquote genre film, it just
made me feel like we just joked about how it's
not good. You know, you're you saying it's going to
be horror Oscars twenty twenty six. It's not going to be, no,
but this is a this is a movie that absolute
like deletes the idea of genre. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that
(15:05):
genre is like less than or or should be less
than or shouldn't be thought of as something, you know,
intensely profound and meaningful, with something deeper to say than
just the stuff that's on the surface level text, which is,
you know, if you just whatever read the logline of
this movie or had somebody come out and just immediately
(15:27):
pitch you this movie after leaving the theater, it'd be like, okay,
this kind of genre bending vampire epic set in the
nineteen twenties South Like, you'd be like okay.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
But there's so.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Much more to it than that. And I do hope that.
I do hope, and I do think that it is
going to be there in Awards season.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I do see a lot of it in a conversation
because I also don't think it's going to be out
of the movie fas for a long time. People want
to see this in imax exhibit as, want to play it,
someone like Tyn Tino could keep playing it at.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
The Vista also as well.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I would say we've seen like Nope Is in continual
play in LA and sevent email and meters like every
few months. Everyone wants to see it that way as
it was, you know, meant to be seen, And I
would say Sinners and Note would.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Be a truly great double bill. But yeah, I'm very
excited for the future of this movie. I love thinking
about how I bet that Ryan Coogler and Michael B.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Jordan when this movie, like the lead into it, I
bet they were just sitting there like absolutely knowing, like shit,
we fucking like we really we really cooked at this.
So I'm like, I feel like I hope that they
were just like they knew that they had something that
was so special.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And I really I'm so happy to see the.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Way this has got people excited to go back to
movie theaters, excited to talk about movies, excited to make movies,
Like there's.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Just so much Rosie.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Is there anything about remis Vampire Pitch that had you
at any point thinking, you know, what if I was
out in the swamp somewhere and all of a sudden
we're under attacked by vampires.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
But then the.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Vampire comes and makes and is playing some some jaunty
music and makes me a picture about eternal life, and
I come with a smile. I think about it would
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I don't, no, no, no, I gotta tell you. I
would be like a number one sucker, like if.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
A vampire, I just can't help it.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Ever since I was a little kid, I knew that
if a vampire came to me, I would say, let's go.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I like it is funny because like I relate deeply
to the kind of memes where people are like, I'm
all life, I've seen enough, like I don't need them all.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, But at the same time, it's like, yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I do want to be a little I do want
to be a little vampire. I want to just be
like hanging out and like dancing. Well, then, I'm not
a banjo music fan, so I don't think this particular
band of vampires would have sold me on it.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
But generally I'm open to vampirism. Let me ask you this.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
You're a vampire, Okay, how do you feed? Are you
doing like bad people? Or it's just like listen, I'm
I'm a creature of nature, like a lion doesn't think
about is that a good will to beast or a
bad will? They're just eating? Which which philosophy do you
go with?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Think that a rich.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
You know, early on, I think all of us are
going to try and live that kind of like we're
just killing bad people, like we're just drinking that blood,
like it's just bad. But I'm sure that at some
point then it starts getting like really small. You like
see someone litter after one hundred years and you're like
that bad, Like that's you could have recycled that shit, babe,
(18:48):
Like it's time you're off. I definitely I don't think
I could live like the the Twilight you only drink,
you know, animal blood kind of kind of situation.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
How about you? What are you? Are?
Speaker 7 (19:00):
You?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Are you just? You're just a stone called killer?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I think, well, first of all, I I think like
you that I would. I'm susceptible to the pitch. I'm
not gonna say one hundred percent no, I'm not going
to do it. But if I'm like you know what,
I don't have the feistiness to be fighting dozens of
vampires tonight, I don't think I'm gonna make it.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I like that just lazy. Yeah it sounds and it does.
It doesn't sound bad.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
It sounds pretty good, like there are there's definitely upsides
to it. And then I think after the fact, should
I take the plunge? And my only you know, obviously,
like you, my only points of reference to what it
would be like are every vampire movie I've ever seen,
every story I've ever read about vampires, and then like
you know, allowing myself to be turned into a vampire
(19:50):
in Oblivion and Skyrim. So those are my only thing. Yeah,
those are my only touchdotes. I think like you, I
would be the same. I would be like, first, bad people,
I'm gonna just are going down the list, who's bad,
who's bad, who's like very loudly bad, and let me
see if I can stuck their blood and then and
not turn them. Yes, they don't get to be turned.
(20:12):
I think, you know, the turning is a very intimate thing,
and you I want to make sure that somebody's down
with it. Like really, I'd be like, listen, this is
gonna be a multi stage.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
PROCESSU consensual vampire where.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
It's really going to talk about what because you can't
there's no going back, so we're going to talk about it.
And then I think, like you listen, over time, over
hundreds of years, I can't. I can't promise that I
that standards wouldn't slip a little bit.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
We would try our best, but after a while, you're
just like really hungry.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Humans are annoying. Yeah, you guys are so annoying.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
But I would say, like, you know, as a vampire,
you could just like you could live off billion as
for a pretty long time with how many So I
think that would be like start at the top kind
of trickle downditors.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Were like jacking terrible billionaires.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, maybe maybe this If any vampires listening, let me
and Jason No, we might have a plan.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Okay, let's go to the Omlands and we're back.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Welcome to the Omnibus, where Lauren, analysis and understanding come together.
Today we're going to talk about kindred spirits, the Choctaw
Irish bond in real life, and its depiction here in Sinners.
In eighteen forty seven, as Ireland was ravaged by the
Great Famine, a remarkable act of compassion across the Atlantic,
(21:52):
A group of Choctaw leaders in Oklahoma, themselves survivors of
the Trail of Tears, forced March a decade prior, raised
a hunt undred and seventy dollars for quote, the relief
of the starving poor in Ireland, the equivalent today of
a bit more than sixty two hundred dollars. The Choctaws
people their resources were not great, but they gave what
(22:13):
they could to those who they saw as in great need.
The remarkableness of the gesture was noted even at the time.
Martin vent Shake, the chairman of the General Irish Relief
Committee of New York City, mentioned the donation specifically in
his report back to Ireland. As Choctaw historian Judy Allen
explained to the BBC quote, we had been through so much,
losing so many of our people through death because of
(22:33):
the weather, starvation, a disease that sixteen years later we
heard about the famine and the horrible situation that they
were going through.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
We felt such empathy that we wanted to help.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
The Choctaw donation during eighteen forty seven, what is known
as Black forty seven, the Famin's darkest year, forged an
unlikely bond between the two peoples who were separated by
an ocean. The only real link between them was a
common humanity, a common sense of another people's suffering, as
the Choctawn nation had suffered.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yet that was enough.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
This unexpected kinship had been passed down through generations, entering
Irish and Choctaw folk memory. It planted seeds of a
future friendship that would be rekindled and honored many times over.
Irish communities walk the Trail of Tears in a six
hundred mile fund raising trek in nineteen ninety two, raising
one hundred and seventy thousand dollars for famine relief in Somalia,
one thousand dollars for every dollar the Choctaw gave. In
(23:25):
nineteen ninety five, Ireland's President Mary Robinson, the first woman
President of Ireland, traveled to Oklahoma to thank the Choctaw
in person, and more recently, in twenty twenty, tens of
thousands of Irish donors sent over a million dollars in
COVID nineteen relief to hard hit Native American reservations. The
Irish have enshrined this relationship in art. In a park
in Middleton County, Cork, a stunning monument called Kindred Spirits
(23:49):
stands as a tribute to the choctaws generosity. The sculpture
consists of nine twenty foot stainless steel eagle feathers arranged
in a circle, forming the shape of a giant empty bowl.
Each feather is unique a sign of respect, symbolizing those
used in Choctaw ceremonies. The empty bowl of feathers points
to both the famines, hunger and the nourishment given. Unveiled
in twenty seventeen with Chalktaw representatives in attendants, Kindred spirits
(24:13):
is an enduring expression of gratitude and empathy.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
These people were still recovering from their own injustice, and
they helped strangers, noted one Irish official at the dedication,
calling it a rare and selfless generosity that had to
be acknowledged. Alex Pentech, the Irish The Irish artist Alex Pentech,
the Irish artist who created a monument, said he aimed
to capture quote the courage for Jilly and humanity shown
(24:37):
by the Choctaw people. The memorial thus serves not only
as a reminder of a past charity, but as a
celebration of resilience had shared hope. And it's fitting then
that this legacy of mutual compassion intertwined history finds a
new life in Ryan Coogler's Sinners, a modern vampire film,
and it's a testament to the rich call research and
(25:01):
history that Kugler did. One thread of the film follows
an Irish immigrant named Remick played by Jack O'Connell, a
vampire who is being pursued by a band of Choctaw
vampire hunters. Beneath the horror action of the film, Kugler
is engaging with deep themes of hunger, of colonization, and
cross cultural kinship. The film's premise was directly inspired by
(25:24):
real history. Kugler, in researching nineteen thirties Mississippi, discovered that
Chinese chalked on Irish communities all had a hand and
influence in the Delta's cultural life and music. Quote all
of them appears in Sinners, he says, a deliberate choice
to reflect a richer reality than one commonly used to
depict the Jim Crow South. As he notes in an
(25:44):
interview with Phillyvoice dot com, quote, it's very easy to
flatten the Jim Crow South just because the signs and
had colored and white on them.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
You think that's all the people that were there. But
that wasn't the case.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Remick, the vampire villain, embodies these themes in complex ways.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
He arrives as an outsider.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
From another world, an older world, one that pre existed
American racial hierarchies, and as an irishman turned on dead,
Remick carries the legacy of Ireland's own history of colonization
and famine. He is, in fact literally famished, literally starving,
a vampire driven by hunger, emerging from a nation that
new starvation. In one pivotal scene, Remic stands outside a
(26:23):
juke joint and begins to sing the Rocky Rote to Dublin,
a bouncy nineteenth century Irish folk ballad which tells the
story of an irishman who leaves home for Liverpool in
search of work, and once there he finds hardship, violence
and solace and protection in the kinship of his fellow
Irish immigrants. It's an ironic choice. Remick is using the
tune to tempt the patrons outside, offering them a chance
(26:44):
to escape Jim Crow Mississippi by joining him in immortality.
But as doctor Rachel Stewart of Brunell University in London
notes quote, the music he chooses, although catchy, is a
story of exchanging one form of suffering life in tu
him in Ireland during the height of English suppression, for
another life on the English Mainland, where the ballad tells
of victimization and violence, depicting in Sinners, Rocky wrote to
(27:08):
Dublin is the song of a predator promising escape while
secretly leading his victims into another form of exploitation. Coogler's
own love of Irish music and culture infuses this scene
and others with a genuine musical verve and dynamism, he
told the Filmmaker Toolkit podcast quote, I'm obsessed with Irish
(27:28):
folk music. My kids are obsessed with it. My first
name is Irish.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
He continued.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I think it's not known how much crossover there is
between African American culture and Irish culture, and how much
that stuff is loved in our community.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
See Sinners to really tap into that.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
An incredible movie, unbelievable stuff, and I love Jason, you
are the king of omnibuses.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
That was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Let's go to a message from our sponsors, and afterwards,
I will be speaking to the directors of the Delightfully
grow Tesque Final Destination bloodline about their inspirations the franchise
and sending off horror legends.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Tony Todd, Hello, guys.
Speaker 8 (28:21):
It's so great to speak to you.
Speaker 9 (28:23):
Yeah, great to talk to you.
Speaker 8 (28:25):
I absolutely loved the movie.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
It was fantastic, and I was lucky enough to take
a friend who is a lifelong Final Destination superstar and.
Speaker 8 (28:33):
He absolutely loved it amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I want to because I'm kind of lucky to get
a little bit more time with you guys. I would
love to know, like, what's your first memory of watching
Final Destination?
Speaker 8 (28:46):
When did that begin?
Speaker 7 (28:48):
I think for me it was FD two, And you know,
I think for a lot of people, the logging truck
scene kind of scars you, especially if you saw it
back then at an early age of sort of wow,
driving on a highway could be extremely dangerous, especially for
me because I grew up in Vancouver, which is where
all the FT movies were shot except for number four,
and so that highway that they shot that scene, and
(29:10):
I've been down many times, and I've been on the
rollercoaster from FT three, and I've been on the bridge
of FT five, and so all of those set pieces
are very very real for me and my growing up
in that city.
Speaker 10 (29:21):
I remember the plane scene, I mean, and to this day,
you know, whenever there's turbulence, I go probably because of
that scene. But you know, then as filmmakers, you know,
we really connected to the films even more because these
films are special. There's no antagonists like in other horror movies.
(29:42):
There's no monster in the woods, there's no guy in
a mask, you know, with a knife. It's really the
filmmaking that's creating the suspense. You know, those close up
shots that are all connected and that are cut in
the perfect way to create the maximums of suspense is
really something as filmmakers we've always relished and it was
(30:03):
such a joy to be able to create that.
Speaker 7 (30:05):
In this movie.
Speaker 9 (30:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Well, I at the screening that we went to in
La we did get a tease about how you guys
got this movie. So I would love if for our
listeners you could kind of explain what was your pitching
process like and how did you put together that really
unique pitch.
Speaker 9 (30:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (30:22):
Well, yeah, your listeners may not know that directors often
have to audition just like actors zoo to get these
bigger jobs, and part of that process is putting images
together and all your thoughts on the scenes and new ideas.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
And we did all that, but one of the.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Really hard things when you're pitching is to pitch tone
and Final Destination has a really unique tone. It's not
just scary, it's not just fun, it's all it's all
these things kind of mixed together, and so we wanted
to bring that to life for them, and we had
this crazy idea of basically having death come for us
at the end of our pitch and for the for
(30:58):
the executives watching, they had no idea any was going
to happen. So for them it was just as much
a surprise as it would be when you're in the
theater and we were pitching our the finale of what
we thought the end of the movie should be, while
the fireplace behind us was lighting the wall on fire,
and they all started pointing and being very concerned, and
we got up and quickly put the fire out and
turned on this big ceiling fan, and I'm running around
(31:19):
saying should I call nine one one?
Speaker 6 (31:20):
And then then we like calmed down and they all.
Speaker 7 (31:22):
Started up plouding, being like, oh, that's great, that was
very They kind of realized that it was a joke.
And then right at that moment, there was sparks that
came from the ceiling fan and it fell off the
ceiling and I jumped out of the way, and it
chopped Adham's head off and his blood went sprang everywhere,
and it was quite a surprise for them, and it
gave them the experience of watching Final Destination, and so
that was really important because we wanted them to know
(31:44):
that we knew how to build these types of set pieces.
Speaker 8 (31:47):
What was it like, top of your head chopped on that?
Speaker 9 (31:49):
You know, I know he's always trying to get rid
of me.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
So why was it so important for you guys to
not just showcase that you understand the tone, which is important,
but also you brought something else in that moment, which was, hey,
we can do VFX, we can make this look real.
Could you talk a little bit about kind of putting
that on the screen.
Speaker 9 (32:11):
You know what it was for me?
Speaker 10 (32:13):
It was the joy bringing the joy in and showing
them that like, not only do we get how to
do this technically, but that we can bring our sort
of creativity to the franchise in unexpected ways. Kind Of
when you're pitching sometimes, I'm sure you know filmmakers in
(32:34):
your audience or actors in your audience can relate to this.
It can kind of feel like a slog. You know,
you're trying to get these jobs. You're trying to do
self tapes.
Speaker 8 (32:44):
Everything's inn ip you're trying.
Speaker 10 (32:46):
To you're trying to prove that you can do it
and to bring our joy of filmmaking into that process
and make like a little mini movie that we could
entertain them with. That's I think what made it feel
so special.
Speaker 8 (33:02):
The most incredible thing about that I think I heard
is there.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Was no one recording it right, even though most pictures
are recorded, so it's never going on the Blu ray.
Speaker 10 (33:10):
They've been kicking themselves because I think they you know,
they hit record on some of the pitches and they
just forgot to do ours or something.
Speaker 8 (33:17):
I love that.
Speaker 10 (33:19):
And the fact that it was a live experience, I
think is what also made it feel special. That like
those you know, twenty people who were on that zoom
are the only people who could ever expecience exactly made
it feel you know, extra special.
Speaker 8 (33:34):
Well, you kind of touched on the joy. I think
this is the funniest final destination.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I think it's it has some of the most brutal,
scary kills, but it also has the most kind of
on screen, non contextual, non tongue in cheek kind of laughs.
So could you talk about kind of bringing after you know,
fourteen years, like kind of bringing that new layer to
the films.
Speaker 7 (33:55):
I think we always wanted to create a film where
you're watching it through your fingers because it's super intense,
but you also have a huge smile on your face.
And I think Adam and I just have an incredibly dark,
twisted sense of humor, where the darker it gets, the
funnier we think it gets. And I think a lot
of the humor that we wanted to bring out aren't
necessarily jokes. They're not necessarily one liners. They're just the
(34:17):
emergent humor that comes out of how insane the situation is.
And we always kind of keep asking ourselves when we're
working on those scenes, like.
Speaker 6 (34:23):
What would it feel like to be in the situation?
And what would you say? And what would you do?
Speaker 7 (34:27):
And if you knew that you could only you know,
live for the years of however much someone had if
you killed them, well, wouldn't you try and kill the
youngest person possible? And wouldn't that and wouldn't that be
hilarious to put in the movie? And like, just like
those types of things, it all comes from the that
emerge the humor emerges out of the situation, and I think.
Speaker 10 (34:46):
People especially now want to be in the theater having
that experience with it in a communal way, you know,
to scream when everyone else is screaming, and laugh when
everyone else is laughing, and feel all of those feelings.
If the crowd is such a special, special thing.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, Well, in twenty twenty five, when a lot of
movies are not going to theaters, and obviously we are
currently living in a moment where everyone is loving to
go to the theater because of a horror movie with sinners,
what was it like for you guys to make a
movie that was exactly always going to be for that.
It's not going to streaming, it's not going to be
second screen. It is about the people in the cinema
going like, oh, Mike, well I can't watch that, or
(35:24):
everyone kind of laughing when you think somebody's gotten away,
And there are many many moments like that in this movie.
So how fun was it to be able to go
into it knowing you're making a cinematic experience.
Speaker 10 (35:35):
That was our first and foremost goal the entire time,
is make this a movie that's so special to experience
with other people that you have to see it in theaters.
A big part of that was actually working with Imax people.
From the very beginning, we knew this movie was going
to be in Imax. We were crafting it for the
big screen to have that intensity and that delight of
(35:57):
how intense it could be on a big screen and
also craft. You know, one of the things that was
really fun while working with the Imax people is they
really encouraged us to use that aspect ratio change as
a creative tool, not just you know, suddenly cut to it,
but how can you guys use this as a creative tool.
And we had the idea to use it as a
(36:20):
signal of death being present. So we designed for each
death sequence a specific shot that pushes in in a
very creepy, slow way, and that's when it expands to
Imax and it gives you that feeling that death is here,
and you know, for people who don't know to look
out for it, it just has this feeling of extra
(36:42):
ominous intensity. But for fans who know to look for that,
it's similar to the way death arrives on the wind
or with a music cue, except now there's a visual
symbol too. There's a moment where you can actually see
death arrive on the scene, which is just so much fun.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, that's amazing, and I've feel like people are extra
prime to understand Imax understand those aspect ratios because of Ryan.
Speaker 8 (37:05):
And Sinners, which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Something else that I really loved about this film is
I am like a law lover, like lor Everyone.
Speaker 8 (37:14):
Always rags on me.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
They're like, oh, you love the law. I'm like, it's
not that kind of law. This is a movie that's
heavily invested in final destination law. So, as fans, what
was it like to get to play in the sandbox
but also expand it because we get new backstories here
for fan favorite characters, we get a new understanding of
how death works.
Speaker 8 (37:32):
So could you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
That kind of expansion while also getting to pull from
so many different sources, because I think a lot of
the early reviews are like, wow, I did not expect
that reference. I did not expect you to care about
this one, which is my favorite movie, you know, So
could you talk a little bit.
Speaker 7 (37:50):
Yeah, that was very much by design from the beginning.
You know, We're we come at it as fans of
the franchise and FT five had one of the best
endings that felt like it wrapped up even the franchise
so well. So when we heard they were making another one,
our kind of primary question was why what are they.
Speaker 6 (38:07):
Doing here that it deserves to have another one?
Speaker 7 (38:11):
And we really approached it from the perspective of, let's
make sure that it doesn't break anything from the previous movies,
but it's adding and twisting it in a way that's
new because we want the audience, especially the super fans
of the franchise, to never know where a movie's going next.
That's what makes you lean forward, that's what makes we
(38:31):
think for a really great experience in the theater is
I have no idea where this is going. And Final
Listenation has a structure to it that is very well understood.
You have an opening set piece, it's a premonition. All
these people are marked for death, and it goes one
by one all the way through that list, and we
wanted to make sure to take that structure and then
twist it and bend it in new ways that feel
(38:55):
like they break the cannon. But then slowly, as the
movie progresses, you realize it doesn't break the canon. It
actually borrows on all sorts of delicious rules that we
know and love, and that was really exciting to us
as fans of the franchise to both kind of honor
the movies that have come before it, but also offer
something new.
Speaker 10 (39:13):
We also filled it chock full of Easter eggs for
the fans. You know, every license plate, every little little
note scrawled in in the book or in the maitre
D's book or on the wall of the tattoo parlor,
they're all just filled with Easter eggs that that you know,
fans will We'll see, maybe maybe you take multiple viewings
(39:35):
to really unpack.
Speaker 9 (39:36):
We're still discovering things.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I was going to say because so many people who
made it must and fans, so those people impost.
Speaker 9 (39:42):
That Easter well.
Speaker 10 (39:43):
And in the art department, you know, we encouraged everyone
to put in Easter eggs without even telling us I
love this, so that you know there could always be
multiple layers that you're unpacking. And you mentioned, you know,
you hinted at Bloodworth's character. Another thing that was really
important for us as we were working with Tony, you
know and the writers on the script, is to give
(40:05):
him more of a backstory and more of an understanding
of where blood Worth came from and why he cares
so much about death, why he knows so much, why
he's so focused on understanding the premonitions of all the
characters in the previous movies, and to do it in
a way that you know, made him more than just
(40:25):
a mysterious mentor figure yes that comes in and gives
advice and disappears. How do we really understand him more
on a human level? And that was something he was
really excited about. You know, he's always relished the fan
theories of who blood Worth is, but also it was
just so excited to kind of explore him as an
(40:46):
individual and as a person.
Speaker 9 (40:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I have a friend, a really fantastic Cora or the
Good Endship and Fitzpatrick, and she loves these movies. But
her one big thing has always been I want to
know more about blood Worth, Like does he fit into
a trope of just being someone who helps? Does he
ever just say like go away, yeah please, I've had enough?
And does he ever get to like have his own story?
And I texted her as soon as I go out
of the movie there, and I was like, you were
(41:08):
going to love this movie, and I, like you had
been absolutely love it, and I do think it's one
of the coolest parts of the movie. And I would
love to talk to you a little bit about that,
Like what was it like to work with Tony to
get to collaborate, because we also learned at the screening
that his final words those are his words, right, So
could you talk a little bit about getting to kind
of Yeah, it was pay homage to him, but also
collaborate with him.
Speaker 9 (41:29):
He's such an icon, he's such an honor.
Speaker 7 (41:31):
Yeah, he came to set and it was a really
special moment for a bunch of reasons, all at the
same time. He was so charming and so excited to
be there and cracking jokes, and everyone was just amazed
at kind of the vitality that he had despite the
fact that he physically was obviously extremely weak. So we
knew going into this movie when we were crafting the
(41:51):
story that he was ill, and so all of the
details of sort of his character were with that in
mind and working with him very closely to figure out
like we were just saying, not only do how do
we give him a beginning, but how do we give
him an end?
Speaker 6 (42:05):
How do we say goodbye to this character, and how
does he want to do that?
Speaker 7 (42:09):
And in that moment that you were just talking about,
when at the very end of that scene there was
stuff we'd written in planned, but we just wanted to
give him a chance to just speak from the heart
because the experience we'd been having him with him that
day was so meaningful and we could tell that he
had so many different emotions going on, just said, what
has this all been about? You know, what is life about?
What is death about? What are you thinking about? Just
(42:32):
speak to the audience, And that take that's in the
film is him speaking from the heart. And you can
really tell when you watch that scene that there's an
icon kind of saying goodbye to the audience there and
leaving us with a message of hope and beauty, which
is something that we've really taken after that moment.
Speaker 8 (42:51):
Yeah, I thought it was such a special moment. It
was so much fun.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
And also it's like kind of I love how in
conversation it is with like the audience, with fans, but
also it's got a dark hilarity to it because then
you go on to some of the worst deaths.
Speaker 8 (43:08):
Like the most so it's not like denying what the
films are, but it gives him that moment which is
really just completely lovely.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
How does it feel now you've done the work, you've
worked with the legends, How does it feel for the
movie to almost be out there and to be a
tangible thing that fans are going to see, that people
are going to get to throw popcorn up in the air.
You're starting to see those first responses of the audiences.
Speaker 8 (43:32):
How does that feel?
Speaker 10 (43:33):
I mean, my favorite thing is to is to hear
from people who are big fans who really love the movie,
you know, because because you know, it's a bit nerve
wracking to make a new installment of such a beloved
franchise and not know how people are going to respond
to it, and to start hearing from people who saw
(43:54):
the movie and absolutely loved it, just you know, I mean,
what more can.
Speaker 9 (43:57):
You ask for?
Speaker 8 (43:58):
Yeah? How does it feel?
Speaker 1 (44:00):
You?
Speaker 6 (44:00):
It's a dream come true?
Speaker 7 (44:01):
I mean, as filmmakers, you start making movies when you're
in your house with your friends running around with the
camera and spring tomato sauce over them as they die horribly,
and to kind of be able to bring to life
a beloved franchise and kind of doing it from the
perspective of a fan wanting other fans to love it.
(44:22):
It's so much fun to see those fans now getting
to enjoy it and being thankful that they get a.
Speaker 6 (44:27):
Little bit more of what they love. Is really really
special as a filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah, the title of my review was like final Destination.
Bloodlines knows exactly what we want and gives it to us.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
So I think you guys deliver it on that front.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Awesome when you're going back rewatching the movies, just kind
of immersing yourself in the world.
Speaker 8 (44:46):
Was there like a moment or.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
A movie that kind of stood out for you more
than you expected when you were revisiting from the original franchises.
Speaker 6 (44:54):
You know what, we.
Speaker 10 (44:56):
Were big fans, and we became even more super nerves
just because the first thing we did when we were
hired was break down every single death on a spreadsheet
exactly how many omens it had, how many dominoes to
the route Goldberg, you.
Speaker 9 (45:11):
Know how successful it was on a scale of one
to ten.
Speaker 10 (45:15):
And we put the deaths into categories and made sure
that we never repeated ourselves and all that stuff. But
there were several deaths that became kind of touch points
some of our favorite deaths that inspired some of the
set pieces. So for example, the screw on the balance
beam from FD five, which is just such a delightful
(45:36):
exercise masterclass in suspense. You're watching a screw, the tiniest
thing possible. You're watching a bunch of feet miss the screw.
Nothing's happening, and you're just cringing and on the edge
of your seat watching. That really was inspirational for the
barbecue sying with the glass and the cup and how
(45:59):
can we make the audience cringe but then bring that
object in in an unexpected way into the roupe goldbrigs.
You can't just swallow the glass, you can't just step
on the screw. You have to bring it in in
a way that nobody expected.
Speaker 9 (46:14):
So that was one.
Speaker 10 (46:15):
Another one was this what we call the spaghetti death
and FT two, where the guy throws the spaghetti out
the window. A bunch of other stuff happens, you completely
forget about the spaghetti and then he at the very end,
he slips on the spaghetti and that's what kills him.
Speaker 9 (46:29):
So that was.
Speaker 10 (46:30):
Inspirational for let's say the hospital death sees that comes
later where you set something up and then you kind
of forget about it, and then it comes in at
the very end. So we definitely were inspired by a
lot of the deaths that came before, but using them
in new ways, you know, and uh, you know, all
(46:50):
to keep the audience on their toes.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, I would love to see those breakdowns. That's incredibly fun.
That's real fun.
Speaker 8 (46:59):
Is there a no context spoiler that you are most
excited for people to see?
Speaker 6 (47:06):
No context spoiler for me would be the poster of
FT five.
Speaker 8 (47:12):
Yeah, okay, I love this. Thank you both so much.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
I appreciate you for joining us. The movie is great
and it was a total joy to talk to you guys,
so thank.
Speaker 9 (47:20):
You so much.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Next week on x ray Vision, Tuesday, we take one
final visit to Jackson Hall as we review the season
two finale of The Last of Us. Wednesday, we're reacting
to Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning. Thursday, the Council gathers
to discuss season two.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Of the Last of Us.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Friday, we're diving deep into the action set pieces of
Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
Saturday News.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jesus Upson and Rosie Knight.
And is a production of Iheard Podcasts. Our Executive producers
are Jeelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman are super as in
producer is a Booze Afar. Our producers are Carmen Lawn
and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi our discord moderator.
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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