May 20, 2025 • 43 mins
Never tell me the odds. Jason and Rosie are joined by Joelle as the gang breaks out the lightsabers and carbonite to celebrate the 45th anniversary of The Empire Strikes Back and the 20th anniversary of Revenge of the Sith.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warrying.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode contaves spoilers for the original trilogy and the
prequel Star Wars trilogies. You've seen those, though, come on you.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Define you gotta see them, guys.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
I believe in.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, it was Jason and on Mesday Night and welcome
back to x ray video of the podcast Movie Dive
even your favorite shows, movies, colleges, and pop culture company
from Myra Podcast. We're to bring you three episodes a
week every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus news.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
In today's episode, we are calling in the Rebel Alliance.
They catch it Han and Anakin is killing younglings. Boo,
that was don't do it, guy, don't go ahead.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
It's you know that I've been never gonna let you
live it down. Join us as we.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
Revisit some of the most horrific moments and some of
Star Wars's best and most depressing pictures.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay, folks, welcome to our round table where we are
welcoming super producer Joel Mooney. Joel, how are you hey?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Good Sun's good day. We get to talk about Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That's right, And today we are talking about two movies
that I think we probably agree with the consensus that
these are the two best movies in their respective trilogies,
And of course it is a wonderful anniversary for these films,
this being the forty fifth anniversary of The Empire Strikes Back,
(01:38):
which debuted in May of nineteen eighty back in the
Days of Your End, Revenge of the Sith, which premiered
twenty years ago. This way, so, folks, let's talk about
that first point. Are these indeed the best films in
(01:59):
their perspective trilogies?
Speaker 6 (02:01):
Joelle by far and away like light years speeds away.
Revenge of the Sith is the best film, and it's
got issues, but I have.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I went back and.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
Watched The Attack of the Clones and the description on
Disney Plus is like Padme and Anakin fall in love.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And I was like, that's a description.
Speaker 6 (02:20):
For this, okay, And that's literally just politics Anaka and Pame,
politics Anakin and Pame.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I was like, oh no, there's no sa.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
And obi Wan's like weird secret mission, his like weird
secret spy mission.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah. String together.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
That is when these movies sing, is when obi Wan
and Anakin are together.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Every time you pull them apart, it's a catastrophe. Yeah.
But Revenge of the synth.
Speaker 6 (02:48):
We get the whole, like the coming of them together
as brothers and more like equals in the opening shots
just kiss fabulous. And then you get everything on Moustafar,
which is such a freaking ha.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You can't even believe it.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
You get Yoda dueling the lightsaber on the center.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
My lord, Oh we love flying Yoda.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
In this house.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
Okay, event this says effing rocks, scores galory great, great great,
and an empire strikes back. It's like one of those
movies where you know, I don't remember a time where
I can't recall that movie, you know, like it was
just always on when I was a kid. My dad,
you know, was like, if this is a film they can.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Watch, it's great. I'm shocked at how good it is.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
The editing doesn't make like where are they cut and
how they're jumping in and out of these scenes should
make no sense, but it's so emotionally you're You're like,
we're in there, they're in the ship, and now we're
like back out with Vader, and now we're like landing
the ship and now we're leaving again.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You're like, what are these scenes?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Like?
Speaker 6 (03:50):
They make no logical sense, but emotionally, timing wise, almost musically.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
It works, and it's fast and it's tight.
Speaker 6 (03:59):
You get begin Yoda being an MVP in the the film,
everything about it, who works, and then that ending which
you can never see coming in a million years.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It was just they get.
Speaker 6 (04:10):
What Tahn the baddest you betray?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Oh my god, it's so good.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
It's so day remains quality Love Empire strikes.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Back, Rosie your thoughts. So these are the two best
of their respective trilogies.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Okay, are these my two favorites?
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Like? Probably not Like REMEMBLESSI I do think is the best,
Like I do think it's the best one.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, favorite and best, I think different conversations.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Yeah, I'm obviously I'm a return of the Jedi like Superstand.
But and It Takes Back is like a fucking masterpiece.
And when I was rewatching it last night, I was
just blown away again by like the production design and
the kind of like spaces that they chose to film
(04:54):
in the Hawk opening is like so unbelievable and just
still to this day looks so fas fantastic.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, the creature work is impeccable.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Like all the things I love about Star Wars.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
Which is feeling like I'm in a different world and
spending time with all different kinds of people who navigate
that world. I think Empire does super well. And I
also think that Empire is continuing like a grand tradition
that we don't often get in films in the same way,
but that we always get in like literature, which is
(05:27):
kind of the autumnal ending, like the you know, have
you ever read Persuasion by Jane Austen. They make you
study it when you're a kid, right, And it was
like super controversial when it came out because at the end,
like she marries the guy and then she's like, Eh,
my life kind of sucks, actually, like.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Was it worth me going through this like experience?
Speaker 5 (05:48):
And I recently wrote an article about how The Hunger
Games follows in that tradition, and I think The Empire
for a lot of people was one of the first
times where they watched a movie that had an unhappy ending,
like a film where you think you're following the heroes,
you think something good is going to happen, you think
you know what is to expect, you've seen a new hope,
(06:10):
but you end in a situation that is absolutely not
that you end in a tragic situation, you end in
a situation of loss, you end in a situation of darkness.
And I think that was pretty radical in like forty
five for what was at this point a blockbuster movie
because of how successful the first one was, Like forty
five years ago, You're not getting that unless it's like
(06:33):
a movie like Thief or like an indie kind of
crime movie. And I think that really still just stands
out to me so much. And also the fact that
like Empire, I think about this a lot, but the
budget was like eight million dollars.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Like the blunniest way.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I think it was a little more like eleven or
something or thirty.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
And I think he had to get like that. He
had to get the deal from like.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
The Bang nineteen eighty money though, which is I.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Yeah, it was just like completely crazy to me that
this movie costs so little and looks so fantastic. And
also I think expands on like Leah, who's one of
my favorite characters, and I think she gets like a
totally different kind of story in this, which I love.
And yeah, I just I just think this is like
a classic and it's still every time I put it on,
(07:22):
it still just hooks me. There's no like putting this
on in the background. It's not a vibes movie. It
is like a narrative film. How about you, Jason, I listen.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I agree that these are the best movies in their trilogy.
I agree with Joel that Revenge of the Sith is
by far, far away, no question, best movie of the
prequel trilogies, which are beloved but bad movies, I think
is a thing that we can say right now. Some
of that badness, I believe does Persistvegulous is the stilted,
(07:54):
strange dialogue, particularly anytime Padme and Anakin are talking about anything.
It's like, who what humans have ever spoken this way
to each other?
Speaker 4 (08:04):
With their yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Be that as it may.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Action incredible even like the like the politics is very
dense here.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
This is you know it.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
It wasn't incorrect, like we know now.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
This ship is like very prescient.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
The culmination of Sheeve's plan involves multiple betrayals of characters
who were secretly working for him, including Dooku, including General Grievous,
although General Grievous is several layers removed, and so that
can be confusing. But even there, just like the action,
(08:41):
everything is so propulsive that it works. You've got you know,
the iconic lightsaber duel between Obi Wan and Anakin set
to a duel of the fates, proving that once again
by that, you know, Star Wars can deliver music that
(09:02):
is timeless, like even at that late stage. And I
think that overall it's really good. You know, it's a
fantastic film that that goes into the darkness in a
way that even Empire doesn't like it.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
He needs more depressing ending than Empire.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Which you in the in the completely lost and in
the dark and the Jedi have fallen and there they're scattered.
Obi Wan and Yoda are in hiding. Padme is dead,
Padme is dead. Darth Vader has risen, very very very scary.
And then for Empire, listen, you know what more needs
(09:42):
to be said? I think to me, I watched it,
rewatched it last week, and the thing that stands out
for me is the way that the characters continue to
evolve from Star Wars. Yes, yes, Luke at a place
where he's accomplished so much and now he's almost you know,
he's in full brat mode like I, you know, I
(10:05):
destroyed the death Star I know the force a little bit.
Now I'm getting lectured by this frog like.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Going on.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And then you have Han and Leah struggling with new responsibilities,
with their feelings for each other. Han just like not
being able to deal with the fact that like he's
in love with this woman who wants to do her
job and doesn't want to just spend time with him,
the fact that he can't deal with that. And then
you know, this is some of the best acting in
(10:36):
Star Wars period, when Mark Hamill says, not just post
the duel with Darth right, Darth reaches out to him
and contacts him through the force, and he said, and
mark Hamill goes father, you know, after this, like he's
been beaten and he's like holding the stump of his hand,
(10:57):
but there's still like a warmth in it, except and
so yeah, you know, like I rejected that at the time,
but I accept it.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
And also like who doesn't want that, Like who doesn't
want that feeling if you've never had a fo.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And it's so believable.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Mark Hamill really taps into something there and then like
beyond the like I love you, I know, the kind
of like dashing swash Buckler Riz of that moment. There
is also the way that Hans's friends are heartbroken as
he's getting dropped into this into the carbon freeze. Shoey's
(11:37):
losing My god, that's his real boyfriend, Shoey. No, don't
do this, like not now, even C three po like
his like his like churlishness is you kind of feel
it in a different way in that moment Leah's heartbreak
like it's it's emotional moments here par excellence in Star
(11:59):
Wars and yes, all of which is to say these
are the best films in their trilogy. But I agree
with you, Rosie, like listen, I'm an ending stand and
so you're the Jedi. For me, it's hard for me
to watch Empire and not be like, well, I gotta
watch them blow up the Second Death Star yep, and
actually win in Return of the Jedi. Let's take a
(12:21):
quick break and we'll be right back to continue this conversation.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And we're back.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
I want to know, like, how often do you rewatch
these movies because these are on like perennial. Star Wars
are like perennial rewatches for me, and I will say
I think Revenge of the Sith extremely rewatchable. I do
think I also do watch Empire, but as Jason makes
the point of, I usually watch it as part of
(12:56):
like a full trilogy rewatch I don't often just I
put it on last night and I watched that. I
watched Revenge of the Sith before this so that we
could talk about it.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
But definitely like they are.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
I do think that in that way, they are not
necessarily like movies that you just put on for like vibes.
You know, They're not necessarily in the same way as
some fandom movies, because I think both of them are
quite emotionally taxing and need kind of a closer watch. Joelle,
how about you, are these Star Wars movies that you
often put back on and just kind of have one
as you're doing your thing.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yes, absolutely. Thanksgiving is for Lord of the Rings. Star
Wars is for Christmas. There you used to be another
Christmas series, but we don't talk about that one no more.
So it's.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Oh no, not that Christmas series. I just mean the
holiday specially.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
So I love watching Star Wars at Christmas. Usually I'm
at home. It's a good tend to revisit with dad,
you know, go through It's interesting because the sequels have
never made the rotation, like I feel like we're all
we're prequels. Okay, fie like originals. Absolutely it must watch sequels.
(14:05):
I will frequently want I love Rogue One. I'm a
Rogue one san as you guys know. And then I'll
also watched The Last Jedi and that's pretty much it
from our post two thousand and five collection. But yeah,
I think that's the appropriate time to watch them. I
also think they could make good Fourth of July movie watches.
If you're into that take Down the Empire with Star Wars,
(14:25):
it's good times.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
For me, Empire is a rewatch. I'll rewatch it, and
often as a I'll often start there and rewatch just
Empire and Return of the Jedi for Revenge of This Sith.
It's like a moment's thing, like I'll watch the Grievous fight,
or I'll.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Like the end game Captain America picking up the Hammer.
You just go back and watch moments.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I'll watch the entire Duel of the Fates sequence with
Yoda and Obi Wan fighting their way into the Senate House,
and then eventual the big duel with Anakin and obi
Wan like I'll watch from there basically, you know, the
last half hour forty minutes of the film, Like, I'll
just watch because I do find a lot of the
other stuff still kind of very stilted and like being full.
(15:15):
Although I will say she is such a scene stealer, yeah, oh,
chewing up the scene, chewing it that I almost find
myself thinking, God, you know, they should have drilled down
on this guy more.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
Imagine instead of it has been his series.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Love taking all I machinations.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, deciding to extend the Clone Wars to keep you know,
to keep the separatest crisis kind of like running so
he can continue to accumulate power. Like all of these
moves kind of happening behind the scenes, Like the Douku
portrayal should have hit harder, the moment where Douku where
she was like get him killing Yeah you see Douco
(16:02):
sec Wait, that's I thought we were gonna kill them,
the only one can you kill the Jedi?
Speaker 6 (16:11):
But also consistence, I'm remaining quiet even even in your death,
you remain a loyal servant.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
You're like, holy shit, like this guy is locked in.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
That's really true, But I thought, you know, you later
find out through other things, right di Duco was legitimately
plotting against she of course says are doing that, But
we should have had more of that, like put me
in that, like help me feel the tension between Duco
(16:41):
being like, you know what she doesn't really believe in,
like the things that because you know, the Separatists had
legitimate gripes. And when you learn more about Doku and
his his biography, you honestly I find him to be
one of the more fascinating characters from that absolutely period
of no question, who's you know, the rich kid whose
(17:05):
heart was in the right place. And to see him
like dispatched so quickly and for and for you know,
Christopher Leed.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
He puts so much in that.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Moment of surprise when she went Palpatine.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Was lam it.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
You just I'm just like, man, I wish there was
more of that.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So that's really my thing.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I love all the Palpatine stuff, particularly for Revenge, but man,
it leaves you feeling like it should have been his story.
The trilogy should have just been about him, basically.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Like for me, it's hard to be completely objective about
the prequels because they really did hit a time when
I was like, I remember going to see that, and
I was like, I don't know, I must have been
like ten or some shit, because I was running down
the street with like a stick that I was pretending
was a light saber. And I've been to see all
the re releases with my mom, and I saw to
(18:00):
Menace and I think I just thought it was like good.
I don't think I had any deep feelings about it,
but like I went to the Clone Wars, I went
and stood outside the Clone Wars premiere to get like
my Star Wars book signed.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
By George Lucas. And by the time we came.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
To Revenge, I think it did deliver for me. And obviously,
like I really loved it because obviously the original name
of Return of the Jedi was meant to be Revenge
of the Jedi, but Jedis can't feel revenge, so there
was a lot of kind of all of that kind
of swept up for me in it. And then obviously
we kind of grew up and we realized, well, the
movies aren't that great, but what was kind of incredible
(18:34):
that I've loved to see, And this is why I
kind of am loathed to call them like bad movies,
even if I can objectively like sport issues with them.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
When I worked at the comic book Shop, I.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
Learned that for like a the Generation under Us, like
gen Z, those were like their original trilogy, and to them,
Revenge is like their empire, right, Like they really do
think it is that movie that they love that they
watched every weekend when it was on reruns on USA
or whatever. So like I just have like such a
nostalgic love for that era of like being excited it
(19:08):
was like that and Lord of the Rings, like I
was there at every premiere like outside trying to get
my little signatures from Lego Lass or whatever. And I
think like the releases of these prequels came at a
time when they made people excited about movies again, and I.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Think that is like very magical.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
And I still really remember that even when I'm like
watching I'm like, I'm gonna try and watch all of
Star Wars in relig like in order chronologically, and I
know that those tariffs, I'm like, this is Dragon, babe.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
I'm like, this is not the Dragon.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Like I'm like, speed up the plan Sheep, like speed
up the past.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
For through this part.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
Yeah, I think like from a film history point, there's
so much to love about the ambition of these films.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I completely agree, not just what.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
Was trying to be cheap, but like what was actually achieved.
This is the first film made with a digital camera.
This is like, you know, the first film we're trying
special effects like this, many lasers and shit. I will
say that, I will say that while I I.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Completely respect the pioneer the technological vision of Lucas here
and the pioneering use of digital technology the way you
said he needed a story, I do also think it
comes in the service of the fact that and this
is I think pretty clear from George's interviews contemporaneously and
after the fact that he's he says numerous times when
(20:29):
talking about the technology, I'm not good working with actors
and connecting with them, and it's just much easier to
do this all digitally move them around.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
George.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
So, while I I think very important films technologically, it
also like it kind of comes in the service of,
like George's worst, the worst thing that he has to
give the filmmaking arts. Although but I agree with you
that the bones, the plot stuff that now at the
time it felt so clunky and like overly dance at
(21:02):
the time. Now is like you're sitting with the flames
of like the United States of America like falling on you.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
You're like, actually, well, this is like we he was
ahead of his time.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
I would also say something I love about Revenge when
it comes to like the things that speak to us
about it, is like it expanded the world a lot,
you know, most of far like Kashik. I'm like a
Wookie lover, you know, so to like see the attack,
like Yoda has to go to Kashik. And I think
that those elements and also I will say when it
(21:37):
comes to a kind of prequel situation, another reason I
think Revenge stands as one of the best entries is
and the best obviously of the prequels, is because it
also like has those direct like connections, like we knew
that Darth Vader went through this, We knew this was
what had led him here. We knew we knew if
(21:57):
you had read the books that like there were these
stories that George wanted to tell.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
So I think like the payoff of actually getting to see.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
The origin of Darth Vader in that final movie and no,
and like see that was kind of like, I think
that that felt very momentous, even if now you know
it's a little bit corny and it's kind of take
maybe takes away a little bit from how you feel
about Darth or whatever. I think that even though people,
you know, they critique Hayden so horribly, he was another
(22:25):
person who was really like impacted by the releases of
these movies and that kind of toxic fan culture that
was around them.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Actually, I think like by the end of this movie, you.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Were so devastated to see what happens to him, even
on rewatch, like and I do think the Mustafar scene,
and then you know, you're.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
I've got the higher ground.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Like those moments that have become so mean, they are
actually still effective because you do care about those characters
by the end of this movie, which feels impossible when
you're watching Bandom, Menace and Clone Wars, because it's like
there's so many issues with the characterizations.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
But once you.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Get to this, you're like, oh my god, no, this
is this is bad times guys like this is they just.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
Start Anakin off way too angry and they don't give
him time to really evolve and descend, you know, to mention.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Clone War's the animated series.
Speaker 6 (23:18):
One of the greatest things it does is it really
showcases like the Empire's failings and why Anakin would be
disillusioned with the promises that the Jedi have made, which
out of the film seems to come out of nowhere.
You're just like, wait, what what what didn't the.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Jedi do the show? Why what happened?
Speaker 6 (23:36):
But I do think to your point, Rosie, like, to me,
there's no more effective moment in all of the prequels
then Anakin sliced up on the side of his volcano.
Just you're like, oh God, like he's lost to the rage,
Like he's really like Hyden is absolutely dialed in in
that moment, back.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
To that like teenage childhood let down.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Because I speaker, and we've talked about this, you know,
as fans, we talk about this like Yoda fucking sucks,
like obi Wan fucking sucks as an actual mental like
they are not good at this stuff, Like Yoda will
literally die rather than tell Luke the truth.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
Yoda would rather die than tell them.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
No.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
Literally, obi Wan comes back and he's like, Hey, I've
got this kid, No matter what you say, I'm gonna
train him as a Jedi and he's like, well, suck,
what can I do?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I guess he's got to be trained as a Jedi.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
You're the leader, I.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
Will say, one of my favorite things. And this is
like such an us.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Like in the weeds kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
But like another reason I always think about Revenge of
the Sith is In twenty seventeen, like Sarah Johng wrote
this article called did inadequate Women's Healthcare destroy Star Wars?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
All Over?
Speaker 5 (24:45):
And it's basically about how like the whole way through,
like no one talks about like padme going to a
doctor or having any prenatal care or and like obviously
you know, other women die in this universe and kind
of I love I remember that being one of those
pieces that I really connected to as like, oh, there
(25:05):
are like so many interesting ways to talk about the
things that we love. And that was just the same
year that I really started to get into journalism, and
I think about it a lot because I also think
about how the vision of one au te, especially if
it's only gonna ever, really have their one lived experience.
And it's kind of funny how something like well, what's
(25:30):
it like for a woman to give birth, like could
that be something that's dangerous just never comes up? And
I always think about that as one of those talking
points where I was like, Okay, talking about this stuff
can be just as inventive and radical and interesting as
the piece of art itself.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
That was like very definitive for me.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I found Anakin's Rage off putting at the time these
movies came out, and now it's you know, like a
lot of the stuff that was put in here it
makes a lot more. It feels like in the age
of insults and school shootings, you know, Anakin is like
unabashedly a school spree killer, like in the Cannon of
(26:11):
the It.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
All makes a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
It feels it feels prescient in a way that feels
less fun but also like I have to respect his vision.
I also think the thing that remains funny to me
about Reelismith and Anekid's rage is like how pushed over
the edge he gets because he doesn't get a promotion.
He doesn't get promoted to and.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
That's not fair.
Speaker 6 (26:36):
He gets the promotion, he just doesn't get the full
title he won.
Speaker 7 (26:40):
He doesn't get a new title at work, and he
is like this is outrageous. Really, you're all the fucking
Jedi Council, the youngest guy to ever do it.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And because you don't get the full title.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Bump, you're screaming in the middle of a meeting that
this is outrage and you're gonna tell your friend Palpatine
about it. And by the way, for the Yoda defenders
out there, this is when Yoda should have been like, Okay,
let me see, did we know the Sith are back?
And then they're plotting, and I feel the presence of
the Sith all around us, moving events in ways that
(27:17):
we can't see. Our young padawan, who has been prophised
to be the Chosen One, has been hanging out with
Senator Sheef Palpatine a lot, and every time he comes
back from hanging out with him, he's like in a
different and new rage about something. And by the way,
it was also Palpatine who leaned on us to make
(27:37):
him a member of the Jedi Council can I And.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
Yoda was also like, well, there's only the rule of
two as well, so maybe the fact that there's just
the two of them hanging out all the time, like
how do I.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Put these all together?
Speaker 4 (27:52):
This man is never he is like so useless.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
He's so useless, but will so say another thing about
and like another thing I think about Avenger of the
Sith that is like, yeah, it's so funny. It's just like,
just have a fucking conversation. This is a peak like
have a conversation movie, like please two people have a
conversation together and understand what is going on. But we
(28:18):
do get as well some really fantastic additions. This is
where Genevieve O'Reilly was cast as mon Motma and never
got a speaking role and is now an and or
you know, like this is where we we have like
Tamura Morrison portraying Commander Cody kind of explained like building
out that clone law from the second I think that
(28:39):
this movie just establishes so many incredible kind of moments
that would obviously go on to reshape Star Wars as
we know it. And yeah, obviously me and Jason Bigger,
big General grievous fans he is.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
I will watch jennything with him amazing, like he's the best.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
What is the most memorable moment in these films, y'all?
Speaker 6 (29:01):
Joelle For Empire, it's a tie from the first time
we see Lando in a swishy cape to Mac macanon
leya in front of how You're people exist in space.
(29:21):
There's a lot of really crazy things happening in that
moment that are magnificent. Since I already mentioned my favorite
part of uh you know Anakin on the side of
the mountain, I think another great moment for me it's
gotta be the opening sequence where we get to see
R two D two just absolutely go and ham on
(29:43):
some droids. Wow, Anakin' try try to keep these elevators
up and moving around where everybody needs them to, but
also like being a proto chopper, like absolutely just murking
people and keeping the mission on track. I think Uh
I'd Love was a really difficult thing to get a
good amount of early and a lot of times what
(30:05):
happened is like, oh R two is the cool one,
and see three po is annoying, but here like R
two is effective and you see, like in addition, does
what we get to see him do in a cockpit,
it's cool to see him in action here. And then
it's coupled with us seeing Anakin and Obi Wan and
their partnership, and it's so funny and warm and it
(30:25):
makes pretty much everything you've been through up to this point,
You're like, Wow, worth it to get to these guys
running around trying to take out Dooku.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
It's great. What about you, Rizzie.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I think for me.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I was an Empire.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
I still just so remember as much as I am
a Yoda hater, like I so deeply remember the moment
where he like uses the force to levitate that x
wing oh yeah, from the swamp, and I think like
that gave me that movie magic feeling, that kind of
like oh imagine, like what could what could I do?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Like what could you do?
Speaker 5 (31:08):
In this also as well, like I loved the womper
attack and then Luke hiding in the Taunton.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I think about that a lot in Empire.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
I just I know that the Taunton and the one
for are not like always beloved, but like I think
like the creature worked there again that I felt like
hath was so different like shooting in Norway, this whole
different feeling, and those are still like those kind of
magical moments and the scary moments and those feelings that
those inspired in me as a kid. Those are still
(31:39):
the moments I think are most memorable from Empire Revenge
of the Sith.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I do.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
I think for me the most memorable moment is like
Yoda doing like a flip with his lightsaber for bears, honestly,
but whenever I think of Revenge of the Sith, I
always see little c GI Yoda flipping out there like
and I'm also like, George, please, I know that Frank
Oz would have found a way to do that practically.
That man made comment like fucking ride a bike, like
(32:06):
he could have done that, that you didn't need to
use CG. But yeah, I mean, who doesn't want to
see like fucking Christopher Lee fight Yoda in a light
save the Bow. That's like insane and I'm so glad
it happened, Jason, how about you?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
For me, it's all the Force ghost stuff. I've talked
about this, but like I saw this movie, my dad
had passed away pretty recently in terms of how I
think it. First saw this movie maybe six months to
a year after that, so like all the being able
(32:41):
to speak to Ben who was gone was super super
emotional and.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Impactful for me. I was like, Wow, that really hit.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I mean they're having full conversations on Degaba about like
stuff that Luke should do. It's not even just like
he's popping in for the very heightened like emotional moments.
It's like there having a full on debate on whether
Luke should leave his training or not. All that stuff
really hit. And then for you know, honestly, for Revenge
of the Cith, it was Yoda, it was Yoda ficking.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Look at how mobile this little guy is.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
For nine hundred, that was That was a jaw drop
moment for me. And I think just how we talked
about these movies being on the technological cutting edge, and
I think the by the time you got to Revenge
of the Sith, the effects had gotten so good in
a way that Force awakens, you know, Force awakens. It's
(33:34):
like battle in Naboo. It looks okay, but it's it
also looks like a Microsoft screensaver, like it doesn't not like,
oh my god, you know, too shiny, too good. And
the opening of Revenge of the Sith, the battle above
Coroissant looks so dense and good that I was just
(33:55):
kind of floored by how good it looked. So those
are my two Yoda and Uh and Force ghosts. Let's
go to a quick break and we're back Okay, let's
(34:18):
talk about I think rewatching Revenge of the Sith, and
you know, there are certain things that.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
At the time I was didn't hit and now I'm.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Like, wowge George Lucas was cooking, And I think the
big ones for me are that the final showdown with
Obi Wan and Darth Vader, and then also the moment
when she fully takes power and Padme says, so this
is how democracy dies to I'm like, god, damn, yeah,
(34:51):
George Lucas was was in the kitchen cooking it.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Please, Like, if you went in the time machine, you
should have worn us in.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
A non f fictional fashion in a world in which
and Or is you know, not based on real world
events and the outside world is completely not troubling at all.
How do you respond to that last forty five minutes
of Revenge of the Sith now watching it with modernize
Joela Rosie.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I mean horrifying.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
I think is like, it is horrifying, and if that
were to happen in real life, it would feel even
more horrifying, you know, I think so, I do think
I feel that this is the ultimate Testament and this
Star Wars have long been at the forefront of this
in Western entertainment, but just a distinct reminder of the
(35:47):
power of allegorical storytelling and the way that George Lucas
at this time, after you know, this massive successive Star Wars,
like he probably could have made whatever movie he wanted,
but no one was going to be like, can't wait
for you to make your political thriller set in real
world America in nineteen seventy nine about the danger of
(36:08):
international tariffs and like the rise of fascism.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
No.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
I mean, George Lucas has talked pretty extensively about how
in the original Star Wars movie, you know, the empire
is America and the rebels are the Vietcong. Like, this
is a man who was making movies that were subversive
and that were saying something about American culture. And I
think that that did continue with Revenge, even in a
(36:35):
way that at the time we maybe didn't see but
when you rewatch it right now, I mean, I was
going to ask you guys, like, what's something you would
say to someone who doesn't want to watch the prequels
and you will be like, well, Revenge is worth watching
because and actually, Jason, I think this is it. Like
I've told so many people like, hey, go back, and
obviously I'm actually very proud of the Internet for just
understanding inherently as soon as the tariffs started kind of
(36:59):
impacting us in real but being like, hey, guys, these
are really easy to watch fictional kids trilogy that will
maybe kind of lay out why this isn't going to
end well, and as we see in those last forty
five minutes, it does not end well. So, Joelle, how
does it feel for you watching Revenge in twenty twenty five?
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (37:19):
I think the line that Padme has where she's talking
to Anakin and she's like, what if the Senate we
think we serve no longer exists? And I think that
is maybe one of the most chilling moments and Revenge
of the Sith.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
It's also.
Speaker 6 (37:37):
So infui, Like the last forty five minutes, I'm gonna
be honest, as a padmey Stan are just infuriating, like
it is almost impossible.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
You really want to like shake Lucas and be like, sir,
what were you doing?
Speaker 6 (37:49):
She was a senator, she was running countries since she
was sixteen. For her, Anakin is like, hey, for the
second time since you've known me, I just slaughtered children
and she's.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Like I don't care, Like, I'm like, what are you
talking about? Where will you go that you can outrun
child murder?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Like what?
Speaker 5 (38:11):
This is a very silly fan question, but this was
always my theory as someone else who is a stan
of padme.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Do you think that Anakin's inherent force powers made her dumb?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (38:22):
Like do you think yes?
Speaker 5 (38:23):
Because she was in love with a force us of
the dark side was like seeping out of him and
she was like, yeah, child murder, who cares, like, it's
really great when we when we kiss in these beautiful
places like Corusson, Like is that because I was always
like otherwise?
Speaker 4 (38:37):
This makes no fucking sense now.
Speaker 6 (38:38):
Even the seduction back on Naboo in the second episode,
it's just so awkward and he's so snappy and angry
and childlike compared to her very mature essence that you're like, well,
this must be the empire.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Not to support a man, right, not to support a man.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
But I will say, like, yeah, he's childlike because he
was literally a fucking child when they met.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
He was like a little baby. Oh no, he was
like a little baby child.
Speaker 6 (39:07):
Like Angel, you should not marry this woman. It's you
thought she was an actual angelic being. This is not
a healthy relationship. Uh yeah, so the last choices and
then the fact that she died of a broken heart. Again,
she has been dealing with war and conflict.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Since she was sixteen. It doesn't make sense, Like.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Why would she care? Yeah, it doesn't make sense, Jason.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
How about for you, how's it feeling watching Revenge of
the Sip in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I just have a lot more respect for what George
Lucas was planning up and a disappointment also that kind
of stems from just wishing that he had been able
to connect that to emotional character driven sea. Yes, you know,
it's so plot driven. That's the thing about the prequels.
(39:59):
It's like it really is about these macro forces, about
taxes and tariffs and yeah, and you know, emergency powers
and how the Senate works within the framework of a
galactic republic and all these things, And it has much
less to do with characters moving throughout it. Since the
(40:23):
main characters who we are following all throughout this are
completely in the dark the entire time. They have agency,
but only within this deluded version of what's actually going on.
And it's only the emperor, the future emperor soon to
be emperor, who has any kind of real agency in
the storytelling. So I both feel a heightened and a
(40:46):
newfound respect for the things that George was concerned about
twenty plus years ago. And I think it's incredible that
he was like, I must tell this story about democracy dying.
I must tell it now. That's incredible to incredible to me.
He's like, you know, in a in a real sense,
(41:07):
in a storytelling sense, in the sense of pop culture,
kind of like a prophet about these things.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Just feeling like, ah, it could have been It could
have been a lot better. It just could have been
a lot better, because you know, I wish that he
had outsourced some of the storytelling work, as he did
with the original trilogy, to either a different director or
the actors more.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I had heard that he tried, and that everyone was like,
I'm too afraid.
Speaker 5 (41:37):
I gotta bring I also have to bring in Like
you know why this, at least all Wars movies were
amazing is because George Lucas was married to Marsha Lucas,
and she was his story at it. And we've this
has been kind of talked about extensively how much she
helped with those.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
He definitely needed that kind of mindset on these movies.
He needed an overseer.
Speaker 5 (41:56):
But I think when you've made some of the most
successful movies of all time and you come back, you
often don't have somebody who helps you out and says, hey,
maybe a little bit more character work would be great here,
or maybe we need to understand why they're falling in love,
you know. But yeah, I think that's a really fair read, Jason,
and probably kind of the most objective way of looking
(42:17):
at them, which is like, Wow, they did some stuff
really incredibly, But those gaping' holes you do feel them
when you.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Start to do the rewatch.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Well, Happy anniversary to Empolaws. It's wonderful to have Star
Wars with us. Coming up on X ray Vision Tomorrow,
Rosie and I will be accepting the Impossible Mission to
recap the entire Mission Impossible franchise In fifteen minutes, I
will be timing you.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
I will do it.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Friday, we're diving deep into Tom Cruise's career the action
stunt pieces featured throughout the Mission Impossible series. Saturday News
and Tuesday, we're visiting Jackson Hole one last time for
the Last of US finale, That's it for this episode,
That's really x ray Vision is hosted by Jason kenspcion
(43:06):
and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our
supervising producer is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen
Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 5 (43:24):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi A discoll Moderata
Warrying.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode contaves spoilers for the original trilogy and the
prequel Star Wars trilogies. You've seen those, though, come on you.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Define you gotta see them, guys.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
I believe in.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, it was Jason and on Mesday Night and welcome
back to x ray video of the podcast Movie Dive
even your favorite shows, movies, colleges, and pop culture company
from Myra Podcast. We're to bring you three episodes a
week every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus news.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
In today's episode, we are calling in the Rebel Alliance.
They catch it Han and Anakin is killing younglings. Boo,
that was don't do it, guy, don't go ahead.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
It's you know that I've been never gonna let you
live it down. Join us as we.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
Revisit some of the most horrific moments and some of
Star Wars's best and most depressing pictures.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay, folks, welcome to our round table where we are
welcoming super producer Joel Mooney. Joel, how are you hey?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Good Sun's good day. We get to talk about Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That's right, And today we are talking about two movies
that I think we probably agree with the consensus that
these are the two best movies in their respective trilogies,
And of course it is a wonderful anniversary for these films,
this being the forty fifth anniversary of The Empire Strikes Back,
(01:38):
which debuted in May of nineteen eighty back in the
Days of Your End, Revenge of the Sith, which premiered
twenty years ago. This way, so, folks, let's talk about
that first point. Are these indeed the best films in
(01:59):
their perspective trilogies?
Speaker 6 (02:01):
Joelle by far and away like light years speeds away.
Revenge of the Sith is the best film, and it's
got issues, but I have.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I went back and.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
Watched The Attack of the Clones and the description on
Disney Plus is like Padme and Anakin fall in love.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And I was like, that's a description.
Speaker 6 (02:20):
For this, okay, And that's literally just politics Anaka and Pame,
politics Anakin and Pame.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I was like, oh no, there's no sa.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
And obi Wan's like weird secret mission, his like weird
secret spy mission.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah. String together.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
That is when these movies sing, is when obi Wan
and Anakin are together.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Every time you pull them apart, it's a catastrophe. Yeah.
But Revenge of the synth.
Speaker 6 (02:48):
We get the whole, like the coming of them together
as brothers and more like equals in the opening shots
just kiss fabulous. And then you get everything on Moustafar,
which is such a freaking ha.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You can't even believe it.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
You get Yoda dueling the lightsaber on the center.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
My lord, Oh we love flying Yoda.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
In this house.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
Okay, event this says effing rocks, scores galory great, great great,
and an empire strikes back. It's like one of those
movies where you know, I don't remember a time where
I can't recall that movie, you know, like it was
just always on when I was a kid. My dad,
you know, was like, if this is a film they can.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Watch, it's great. I'm shocked at how good it is.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
The editing doesn't make like where are they cut and
how they're jumping in and out of these scenes should
make no sense, but it's so emotionally you're You're like,
we're in there, they're in the ship, and now we're
like back out with Vader, and now we're like landing
the ship and now we're leaving again.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You're like, what are these scenes?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Like?
Speaker 6 (03:50):
They make no logical sense, but emotionally, timing wise, almost musically.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
It works, and it's fast and it's tight.
Speaker 6 (03:59):
You get begin Yoda being an MVP in the the film,
everything about it, who works, and then that ending which
you can never see coming in a million years.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It was just they get.
Speaker 6 (04:10):
What Tahn the baddest you betray?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Oh my god, it's so good.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
It's so day remains quality Love Empire strikes.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Back, Rosie your thoughts. So these are the two best
of their respective trilogies.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Okay, are these my two favorites?
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Like? Probably not Like REMEMBLESSI I do think is the best,
Like I do think it's the best one.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, favorite and best, I think different conversations.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Yeah, I'm obviously I'm a return of the Jedi like Superstand.
But and It Takes Back is like a fucking masterpiece.
And when I was rewatching it last night, I was
just blown away again by like the production design and
the kind of like spaces that they chose to film
(04:54):
in the Hawk opening is like so unbelievable and just
still to this day looks so fas fantastic.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, the creature work is impeccable.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Like all the things I love about Star Wars.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
Which is feeling like I'm in a different world and
spending time with all different kinds of people who navigate
that world. I think Empire does super well. And I
also think that Empire is continuing like a grand tradition
that we don't often get in films in the same way,
but that we always get in like literature, which is
(05:27):
kind of the autumnal ending, like the you know, have
you ever read Persuasion by Jane Austen. They make you
study it when you're a kid, right, And it was
like super controversial when it came out because at the end,
like she marries the guy and then she's like, Eh,
my life kind of sucks, actually, like.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Was it worth me going through this like experience?
Speaker 5 (05:48):
And I recently wrote an article about how The Hunger
Games follows in that tradition, and I think The Empire
for a lot of people was one of the first
times where they watched a movie that had an unhappy ending,
like a film where you think you're following the heroes,
you think something good is going to happen, you think
you know what is to expect, you've seen a new hope,
(06:10):
but you end in a situation that is absolutely not
that you end in a tragic situation, you end in
a situation of loss, you end in a situation of darkness.
And I think that was pretty radical in like forty
five for what was at this point a blockbuster movie
because of how successful the first one was, Like forty
five years ago, You're not getting that unless it's like
(06:33):
a movie like Thief or like an indie kind of
crime movie. And I think that really still just stands
out to me so much. And also the fact that
like Empire, I think about this a lot, but the
budget was like eight million dollars.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Like the blunniest way.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I think it was a little more like eleven or
something or thirty.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
And I think he had to get like that. He
had to get the deal from like.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
The Bang nineteen eighty money though, which is I.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Yeah, it was just like completely crazy to me that
this movie costs so little and looks so fantastic. And
also I think expands on like Leah, who's one of
my favorite characters, and I think she gets like a
totally different kind of story in this, which I love.
And yeah, I just I just think this is like
a classic and it's still every time I put it on,
(07:22):
it still just hooks me. There's no like putting this
on in the background. It's not a vibes movie. It
is like a narrative film. How about you, Jason, I listen.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I agree that these are the best movies in their trilogy.
I agree with Joel that Revenge of the Sith is
by far, far away, no question, best movie of the
prequel trilogies, which are beloved but bad movies, I think
is a thing that we can say right now. Some
of that badness, I believe does Persistvegulous is the stilted,
(07:54):
strange dialogue, particularly anytime Padme and Anakin are talking about anything.
It's like, who what humans have ever spoken this way
to each other?
Speaker 4 (08:04):
With their yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Be that as it may.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Action incredible even like the like the politics is very
dense here.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
This is you know it.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
It wasn't incorrect, like we know now.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
This ship is like very prescient.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
The culmination of Sheeve's plan involves multiple betrayals of characters
who were secretly working for him, including Dooku, including General Grievous,
although General Grievous is several layers removed, and so that
can be confusing. But even there, just like the action,
(08:41):
everything is so propulsive that it works. You've got you know,
the iconic lightsaber duel between Obi Wan and Anakin set
to a duel of the fates, proving that once again
by that, you know, Star Wars can deliver music that
(09:02):
is timeless, like even at that late stage. And I
think that overall it's really good. You know, it's a
fantastic film that that goes into the darkness in a
way that even Empire doesn't like it.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
He needs more depressing ending than Empire.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Which you in the in the completely lost and in
the dark and the Jedi have fallen and there they're scattered.
Obi Wan and Yoda are in hiding. Padme is dead,
Padme is dead. Darth Vader has risen, very very very scary.
And then for Empire, listen, you know what more needs
(09:42):
to be said? I think to me, I watched it,
rewatched it last week, and the thing that stands out
for me is the way that the characters continue to
evolve from Star Wars. Yes, yes, Luke at a place
where he's accomplished so much and now he's almost you know,
he's in full brat mode like I, you know, I
(10:05):
destroyed the death Star I know the force a little bit.
Now I'm getting lectured by this frog like.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Going on.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And then you have Han and Leah struggling with new responsibilities,
with their feelings for each other. Han just like not
being able to deal with the fact that like he's
in love with this woman who wants to do her
job and doesn't want to just spend time with him,
the fact that he can't deal with that. And then
you know, this is some of the best acting in
(10:36):
Star Wars period, when Mark Hamill says, not just post
the duel with Darth right, Darth reaches out to him
and contacts him through the force, and he said, and
mark Hamill goes father, you know, after this, like he's
been beaten and he's like holding the stump of his hand,
(10:57):
but there's still like a warmth in it, except and
so yeah, you know, like I rejected that at the time,
but I accept it.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
And also like who doesn't want that, Like who doesn't
want that feeling if you've never had a fo.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And it's so believable.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Mark Hamill really taps into something there and then like
beyond the like I love you, I know, the kind
of like dashing swash Buckler Riz of that moment. There
is also the way that Hans's friends are heartbroken as
he's getting dropped into this into the carbon freeze. Shoey's
(11:37):
losing My god, that's his real boyfriend, Shoey. No, don't
do this, like not now, even C three po like
his like his like churlishness is you kind of feel
it in a different way in that moment Leah's heartbreak
like it's it's emotional moments here par excellence in Star
(11:59):
Wars and yes, all of which is to say these
are the best films in their trilogy. But I agree
with you, Rosie, like listen, I'm an ending stand and
so you're the Jedi. For me, it's hard for me
to watch Empire and not be like, well, I gotta
watch them blow up the Second Death Star yep, and
actually win in Return of the Jedi. Let's take a
(12:21):
quick break and we'll be right back to continue this conversation.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And we're back.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
I want to know, like, how often do you rewatch
these movies because these are on like perennial. Star Wars
are like perennial rewatches for me, and I will say
I think Revenge of the Sith extremely rewatchable. I do
think I also do watch Empire, but as Jason makes
the point of, I usually watch it as part of
(12:56):
like a full trilogy rewatch I don't often just I
put it on last night and I watched that. I
watched Revenge of the Sith before this so that we
could talk about it.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
But definitely like they are.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
I do think that in that way, they are not
necessarily like movies that you just put on for like vibes.
You know, They're not necessarily in the same way as
some fandom movies, because I think both of them are
quite emotionally taxing and need kind of a closer watch. Joelle,
how about you, are these Star Wars movies that you
often put back on and just kind of have one
as you're doing your thing.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yes, absolutely. Thanksgiving is for Lord of the Rings. Star
Wars is for Christmas. There you used to be another
Christmas series, but we don't talk about that one no more.
So it's.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Oh no, not that Christmas series. I just mean the
holiday specially.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
So I love watching Star Wars at Christmas. Usually I'm
at home. It's a good tend to revisit with dad,
you know, go through It's interesting because the sequels have
never made the rotation, like I feel like we're all
we're prequels. Okay, fie like originals. Absolutely it must watch sequels.
(14:05):
I will frequently want I love Rogue One. I'm a
Rogue one san as you guys know. And then I'll
also watched The Last Jedi and that's pretty much it
from our post two thousand and five collection. But yeah,
I think that's the appropriate time to watch them. I
also think they could make good Fourth of July movie watches.
If you're into that take Down the Empire with Star Wars,
(14:25):
it's good times.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
For me, Empire is a rewatch. I'll rewatch it, and
often as a I'll often start there and rewatch just
Empire and Return of the Jedi for Revenge of This Sith.
It's like a moment's thing, like I'll watch the Grievous fight,
or I'll.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Like the end game Captain America picking up the Hammer.
You just go back and watch moments.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I'll watch the entire Duel of the Fates sequence with
Yoda and Obi Wan fighting their way into the Senate House,
and then eventual the big duel with Anakin and obi
Wan like I'll watch from there basically, you know, the
last half hour forty minutes of the film, Like, I'll
just watch because I do find a lot of the
other stuff still kind of very stilted and like being full.
(15:15):
Although I will say she is such a scene stealer, yeah, oh,
chewing up the scene, chewing it that I almost find
myself thinking, God, you know, they should have drilled down
on this guy more.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
Imagine instead of it has been his series.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Love taking all I machinations.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, deciding to extend the Clone Wars to keep you know,
to keep the separatest crisis kind of like running so
he can continue to accumulate power. Like all of these
moves kind of happening behind the scenes, Like the Douku
portrayal should have hit harder, the moment where Douku where
she was like get him killing Yeah you see Douco
(16:02):
sec Wait, that's I thought we were gonna kill them,
the only one can you kill the Jedi?
Speaker 6 (16:11):
But also consistence, I'm remaining quiet even even in your death,
you remain a loyal servant.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
You're like, holy shit, like this guy is locked in.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
That's really true, But I thought, you know, you later
find out through other things, right di Duco was legitimately
plotting against she of course says are doing that, But
we should have had more of that, like put me
in that, like help me feel the tension between Duco
(16:41):
being like, you know what she doesn't really believe in,
like the things that because you know, the Separatists had
legitimate gripes. And when you learn more about Doku and
his his biography, you honestly I find him to be
one of the more fascinating characters from that absolutely period
of no question, who's you know, the rich kid whose
(17:05):
heart was in the right place. And to see him
like dispatched so quickly and for and for you know,
Christopher Leed.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
He puts so much in that.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Moment of surprise when she went Palpatine.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Was lam it.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
You just I'm just like, man, I wish there was
more of that.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So that's really my thing.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I love all the Palpatine stuff, particularly for Revenge, but man,
it leaves you feeling like it should have been his story.
The trilogy should have just been about him, basically.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Like for me, it's hard to be completely objective about
the prequels because they really did hit a time when
I was like, I remember going to see that, and
I was like, I don't know, I must have been
like ten or some shit, because I was running down
the street with like a stick that I was pretending
was a light saber. And I've been to see all
the re releases with my mom, and I saw to
(18:00):
Menace and I think I just thought it was like good.
I don't think I had any deep feelings about it,
but like I went to the Clone Wars, I went
and stood outside the Clone Wars premiere to get like
my Star Wars book signed.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
By George Lucas. And by the time we came.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
To Revenge, I think it did deliver for me. And obviously,
like I really loved it because obviously the original name
of Return of the Jedi was meant to be Revenge
of the Jedi, but Jedis can't feel revenge, so there
was a lot of kind of all of that kind
of swept up for me in it. And then obviously
we kind of grew up and we realized, well, the
movies aren't that great, but what was kind of incredible
(18:34):
that I've loved to see, And this is why I
kind of am loathed to call them like bad movies,
even if I can objectively like sport issues with them.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
When I worked at the comic book Shop, I.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
Learned that for like a the Generation under Us, like
gen Z, those were like their original trilogy, and to them,
Revenge is like their empire, right, Like they really do
think it is that movie that they love that they
watched every weekend when it was on reruns on USA
or whatever. So like I just have like such a
nostalgic love for that era of like being excited it
(19:08):
was like that and Lord of the Rings, like I
was there at every premiere like outside trying to get
my little signatures from Lego Lass or whatever. And I
think like the releases of these prequels came at a
time when they made people excited about movies again, and I.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Think that is like very magical.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
And I still really remember that even when I'm like
watching I'm like, I'm gonna try and watch all of
Star Wars in relig like in order chronologically, and I
know that those tariffs, I'm like, this is Dragon, babe.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
I'm like, this is not the Dragon.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Like I'm like, speed up the plan Sheep, like speed
up the past.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
For through this part.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
Yeah, I think like from a film history point, there's
so much to love about the ambition of these films.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I completely agree, not just what.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
Was trying to be cheap, but like what was actually achieved.
This is the first film made with a digital camera.
This is like, you know, the first film we're trying
special effects like this, many lasers and shit. I will
say that, I will say that while I I.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Completely respect the pioneer the technological vision of Lucas here
and the pioneering use of digital technology the way you
said he needed a story, I do also think it
comes in the service of the fact that and this
is I think pretty clear from George's interviews contemporaneously and
after the fact that he's he says numerous times when
(20:29):
talking about the technology, I'm not good working with actors
and connecting with them, and it's just much easier to
do this all digitally move them around.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
George.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
So, while I I think very important films technologically, it
also like it kind of comes in the service of,
like George's worst, the worst thing that he has to
give the filmmaking arts. Although but I agree with you
that the bones, the plot stuff that now at the
time it felt so clunky and like overly dance at
(21:02):
the time. Now is like you're sitting with the flames
of like the United States of America like falling on you.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
You're like, actually, well, this is like we he was
ahead of his time.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
I would also say something I love about Revenge when
it comes to like the things that speak to us
about it, is like it expanded the world a lot,
you know, most of far like Kashik. I'm like a
Wookie lover, you know, so to like see the attack,
like Yoda has to go to Kashik. And I think
that those elements and also I will say when it
(21:37):
comes to a kind of prequel situation, another reason I
think Revenge stands as one of the best entries is
and the best obviously of the prequels, is because it
also like has those direct like connections, like we knew
that Darth Vader went through this, We knew this was
what had led him here. We knew we knew if
(21:57):
you had read the books that like there were these
stories that George wanted to tell.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
So I think like the payoff of actually getting to see.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
The origin of Darth Vader in that final movie and no,
and like see that was kind of like, I think
that that felt very momentous, even if now you know
it's a little bit corny and it's kind of take
maybe takes away a little bit from how you feel
about Darth or whatever. I think that even though people,
you know, they critique Hayden so horribly, he was another
(22:25):
person who was really like impacted by the releases of
these movies and that kind of toxic fan culture that
was around them.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Actually, I think like by the end of this movie, you.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Were so devastated to see what happens to him, even
on rewatch, like and I do think the Mustafar scene,
and then you know, you're.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
I've got the higher ground.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Like those moments that have become so mean, they are
actually still effective because you do care about those characters
by the end of this movie, which feels impossible when
you're watching Bandom, Menace and Clone Wars, because it's like
there's so many issues with the characterizations.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
But once you.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Get to this, you're like, oh my god, no, this
is this is bad times guys like this is they just.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
Start Anakin off way too angry and they don't give
him time to really evolve and descend, you know, to mention.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Clone War's the animated series.
Speaker 6 (23:18):
One of the greatest things it does is it really
showcases like the Empire's failings and why Anakin would be
disillusioned with the promises that the Jedi have made, which
out of the film seems to come out of nowhere.
You're just like, wait, what what what didn't the.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Jedi do the show? Why what happened?
Speaker 6 (23:36):
But I do think to your point, Rosie, like, to me,
there's no more effective moment in all of the prequels
then Anakin sliced up on the side of his volcano.
Just you're like, oh God, like he's lost to the rage,
Like he's really like Hyden is absolutely dialed in in
that moment, back.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
To that like teenage childhood let down.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Because I speaker, and we've talked about this, you know,
as fans, we talk about this like Yoda fucking sucks,
like obi Wan fucking sucks as an actual mental like
they are not good at this stuff, Like Yoda will
literally die rather than tell Luke the truth.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
Yoda would rather die than tell them.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
No.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
Literally, obi Wan comes back and he's like, Hey, I've
got this kid, No matter what you say, I'm gonna
train him as a Jedi and he's like, well, suck,
what can I do?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I guess he's got to be trained as a Jedi.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
You're the leader, I.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
Will say, one of my favorite things. And this is
like such an us.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Like in the weeds kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
But like another reason I always think about Revenge of
the Sith is In twenty seventeen, like Sarah Johng wrote
this article called did inadequate Women's Healthcare destroy Star Wars?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
All Over?
Speaker 5 (24:45):
And it's basically about how like the whole way through,
like no one talks about like padme going to a
doctor or having any prenatal care or and like obviously
you know, other women die in this universe and kind
of I love I remember that being one of those
pieces that I really connected to as like, oh, there
(25:05):
are like so many interesting ways to talk about the
things that we love. And that was just the same
year that I really started to get into journalism, and
I think about it a lot because I also think
about how the vision of one au te, especially if
it's only gonna ever, really have their one lived experience.
And it's kind of funny how something like well, what's
(25:30):
it like for a woman to give birth, like could
that be something that's dangerous just never comes up? And
I always think about that as one of those talking
points where I was like, Okay, talking about this stuff
can be just as inventive and radical and interesting as
the piece of art itself.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
That was like very definitive for me.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I found Anakin's Rage off putting at the time these
movies came out, and now it's you know, like a
lot of the stuff that was put in here it
makes a lot more. It feels like in the age
of insults and school shootings, you know, Anakin is like
unabashedly a school spree killer, like in the Cannon of
(26:11):
the It.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
All makes a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
It feels it feels prescient in a way that feels
less fun but also like I have to respect his vision.
I also think the thing that remains funny to me
about Reelismith and Anekid's rage is like how pushed over
the edge he gets because he doesn't get a promotion.
He doesn't get promoted to and.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
That's not fair.
Speaker 6 (26:36):
He gets the promotion, he just doesn't get the full
title he won.
Speaker 7 (26:40):
He doesn't get a new title at work, and he
is like this is outrageous. Really, you're all the fucking
Jedi Council, the youngest guy to ever do it.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And because you don't get the full title.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Bump, you're screaming in the middle of a meeting that
this is outrage and you're gonna tell your friend Palpatine
about it. And by the way, for the Yoda defenders
out there, this is when Yoda should have been like, Okay,
let me see, did we know the Sith are back?
And then they're plotting, and I feel the presence of
the Sith all around us, moving events in ways that
(27:17):
we can't see. Our young padawan, who has been prophised
to be the Chosen One, has been hanging out with
Senator Sheef Palpatine a lot, and every time he comes
back from hanging out with him, he's like in a
different and new rage about something. And by the way,
it was also Palpatine who leaned on us to make
(27:37):
him a member of the Jedi Council can I And.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
Yoda was also like, well, there's only the rule of
two as well, so maybe the fact that there's just
the two of them hanging out all the time, like
how do I.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Put these all together?
Speaker 4 (27:52):
This man is never he is like so useless.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
He's so useless, but will so say another thing about
and like another thing I think about Avenger of the
Sith that is like, yeah, it's so funny. It's just like,
just have a fucking conversation. This is a peak like
have a conversation movie, like please two people have a
conversation together and understand what is going on. But we
(28:18):
do get as well some really fantastic additions. This is
where Genevieve O'Reilly was cast as mon Motma and never
got a speaking role and is now an and or
you know, like this is where we we have like
Tamura Morrison portraying Commander Cody kind of explained like building
out that clone law from the second I think that
(28:39):
this movie just establishes so many incredible kind of moments
that would obviously go on to reshape Star Wars as
we know it. And yeah, obviously me and Jason Bigger,
big General grievous fans he is.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
I will watch jennything with him amazing, like he's the best.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
What is the most memorable moment in these films, y'all?
Speaker 6 (29:01):
Joelle For Empire, it's a tie from the first time
we see Lando in a swishy cape to Mac macanon
leya in front of how You're people exist in space.
(29:21):
There's a lot of really crazy things happening in that
moment that are magnificent. Since I already mentioned my favorite
part of uh you know Anakin on the side of
the mountain, I think another great moment for me it's
gotta be the opening sequence where we get to see
R two D two just absolutely go and ham on
(29:43):
some droids. Wow, Anakin' try try to keep these elevators
up and moving around where everybody needs them to, but
also like being a proto chopper, like absolutely just murking
people and keeping the mission on track. I think Uh
I'd Love was a really difficult thing to get a
good amount of early and a lot of times what
(30:05):
happened is like, oh R two is the cool one,
and see three po is annoying, but here like R
two is effective and you see, like in addition, does
what we get to see him do in a cockpit,
it's cool to see him in action here. And then
it's coupled with us seeing Anakin and Obi Wan and
their partnership, and it's so funny and warm and it
(30:25):
makes pretty much everything you've been through up to this point,
You're like, Wow, worth it to get to these guys
running around trying to take out Dooku.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
It's great. What about you, Rizzie.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I think for me.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I was an Empire.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
I still just so remember as much as I am
a Yoda hater, like I so deeply remember the moment
where he like uses the force to levitate that x
wing oh yeah, from the swamp, and I think like
that gave me that movie magic feeling, that kind of
like oh imagine, like what could what could I do?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Like what could you do?
Speaker 5 (31:08):
In this also as well, like I loved the womper
attack and then Luke hiding in the Taunton.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I think about that a lot in Empire.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
I just I know that the Taunton and the one
for are not like always beloved, but like I think
like the creature worked there again that I felt like
hath was so different like shooting in Norway, this whole
different feeling, and those are still like those kind of
magical moments and the scary moments and those feelings that
those inspired in me as a kid. Those are still
(31:39):
the moments I think are most memorable from Empire Revenge
of the Sith.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I do.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
I think for me the most memorable moment is like
Yoda doing like a flip with his lightsaber for bears, honestly,
but whenever I think of Revenge of the Sith, I
always see little c GI Yoda flipping out there like
and I'm also like, George, please, I know that Frank
Oz would have found a way to do that practically.
That man made comment like fucking ride a bike, like
(32:06):
he could have done that, that you didn't need to
use CG. But yeah, I mean, who doesn't want to
see like fucking Christopher Lee fight Yoda in a light
save the Bow. That's like insane and I'm so glad
it happened, Jason, how about you?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
For me, it's all the Force ghost stuff. I've talked
about this, but like I saw this movie, my dad
had passed away pretty recently in terms of how I
think it. First saw this movie maybe six months to
a year after that, so like all the being able
(32:41):
to speak to Ben who was gone was super super
emotional and.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Impactful for me. I was like, Wow, that really hit.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I mean they're having full conversations on Degaba about like
stuff that Luke should do. It's not even just like
he's popping in for the very heightened like emotional moments.
It's like there having a full on debate on whether
Luke should leave his training or not. All that stuff
really hit. And then for you know, honestly, for Revenge
of the Cith, it was Yoda, it was Yoda ficking.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Look at how mobile this little guy is.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
For nine hundred, that was That was a jaw drop
moment for me. And I think just how we talked
about these movies being on the technological cutting edge, and
I think the by the time you got to Revenge
of the Sith, the effects had gotten so good in
a way that Force awakens, you know, Force awakens. It's
(33:34):
like battle in Naboo. It looks okay, but it's it
also looks like a Microsoft screensaver, like it doesn't not like,
oh my god, you know, too shiny, too good. And
the opening of Revenge of the Sith, the battle above
Coroissant looks so dense and good that I was just
(33:55):
kind of floored by how good it looked. So those
are my two Yoda and Uh and Force ghosts. Let's
go to a quick break and we're back Okay, let's
(34:18):
talk about I think rewatching Revenge of the Sith, and
you know, there are certain things that.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
At the time I was didn't hit and now I'm.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Like, wowge George Lucas was cooking, And I think the
big ones for me are that the final showdown with
Obi Wan and Darth Vader, and then also the moment
when she fully takes power and Padme says, so this
is how democracy dies to I'm like, god, damn, yeah,
(34:51):
George Lucas was was in the kitchen cooking it.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Please, Like, if you went in the time machine, you
should have worn us in.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
A non f fictional fashion in a world in which
and Or is you know, not based on real world
events and the outside world is completely not troubling at all.
How do you respond to that last forty five minutes
of Revenge of the Sith now watching it with modernize
Joela Rosie.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I mean horrifying.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
I think is like, it is horrifying, and if that
were to happen in real life, it would feel even
more horrifying, you know, I think so, I do think
I feel that this is the ultimate Testament and this
Star Wars have long been at the forefront of this
in Western entertainment, but just a distinct reminder of the
(35:47):
power of allegorical storytelling and the way that George Lucas
at this time, after you know, this massive successive Star Wars,
like he probably could have made whatever movie he wanted,
but no one was going to be like, can't wait
for you to make your political thriller set in real
world America in nineteen seventy nine about the danger of
(36:08):
international tariffs and like the rise of fascism.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
No.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
I mean, George Lucas has talked pretty extensively about how
in the original Star Wars movie, you know, the empire
is America and the rebels are the Vietcong. Like, this
is a man who was making movies that were subversive
and that were saying something about American culture. And I
think that that did continue with Revenge, even in a
(36:35):
way that at the time we maybe didn't see but
when you rewatch it right now, I mean, I was
going to ask you guys, like, what's something you would
say to someone who doesn't want to watch the prequels
and you will be like, well, Revenge is worth watching
because and actually, Jason, I think this is it. Like
I've told so many people like, hey, go back, and
obviously I'm actually very proud of the Internet for just
understanding inherently as soon as the tariffs started kind of
(36:59):
impacting us in real but being like, hey, guys, these
are really easy to watch fictional kids trilogy that will
maybe kind of lay out why this isn't going to
end well, and as we see in those last forty
five minutes, it does not end well. So, Joelle, how
does it feel for you watching Revenge in twenty twenty five?
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (37:19):
I think the line that Padme has where she's talking
to Anakin and she's like, what if the Senate we
think we serve no longer exists? And I think that
is maybe one of the most chilling moments and Revenge
of the Sith.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
It's also.
Speaker 6 (37:37):
So infui, Like the last forty five minutes, I'm gonna
be honest, as a padmey Stan are just infuriating, like
it is almost impossible.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
You really want to like shake Lucas and be like, sir,
what were you doing?
Speaker 6 (37:49):
She was a senator, she was running countries since she
was sixteen. For her, Anakin is like, hey, for the
second time since you've known me, I just slaughtered children
and she's.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Like I don't care, Like, I'm like, what are you
talking about? Where will you go that you can outrun
child murder?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Like what?
Speaker 5 (38:11):
This is a very silly fan question, but this was
always my theory as someone else who is a stan
of padme.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Do you think that Anakin's inherent force powers made her dumb?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (38:22):
Like do you think yes?
Speaker 5 (38:23):
Because she was in love with a force us of
the dark side was like seeping out of him and
she was like, yeah, child murder, who cares, like, it's
really great when we when we kiss in these beautiful
places like Corusson, Like is that because I was always
like otherwise?
Speaker 4 (38:37):
This makes no fucking sense now.
Speaker 6 (38:38):
Even the seduction back on Naboo in the second episode,
it's just so awkward and he's so snappy and angry
and childlike compared to her very mature essence that you're like, well,
this must be the empire.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Not to support a man, right, not to support a man.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
But I will say, like, yeah, he's childlike because he
was literally a fucking child when they met.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
He was like a little baby. Oh no, he was
like a little baby child.
Speaker 6 (39:07):
Like Angel, you should not marry this woman. It's you
thought she was an actual angelic being. This is not
a healthy relationship. Uh yeah, so the last choices and
then the fact that she died of a broken heart. Again,
she has been dealing with war and conflict.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Since she was sixteen. It doesn't make sense, Like.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Why would she care? Yeah, it doesn't make sense, Jason.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
How about for you, how's it feeling watching Revenge of
the Sip in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I just have a lot more respect for what George
Lucas was planning up and a disappointment also that kind
of stems from just wishing that he had been able
to connect that to emotional character driven sea. Yes, you know,
it's so plot driven. That's the thing about the prequels.
(39:59):
It's like it really is about these macro forces, about
taxes and tariffs and yeah, and you know, emergency powers
and how the Senate works within the framework of a
galactic republic and all these things, And it has much
less to do with characters moving throughout it. Since the
(40:23):
main characters who we are following all throughout this are
completely in the dark the entire time. They have agency,
but only within this deluded version of what's actually going on.
And it's only the emperor, the future emperor soon to
be emperor, who has any kind of real agency in
the storytelling. So I both feel a heightened and a
(40:46):
newfound respect for the things that George was concerned about
twenty plus years ago. And I think it's incredible that
he was like, I must tell this story about democracy dying.
I must tell it now. That's incredible to incredible to me.
He's like, you know, in a in a real sense,
(41:07):
in a storytelling sense, in the sense of pop culture,
kind of like a prophet about these things.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Just feeling like, ah, it could have been It could
have been a lot better. It just could have been
a lot better, because you know, I wish that he
had outsourced some of the storytelling work, as he did
with the original trilogy, to either a different director or
the actors more.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I had heard that he tried, and that everyone was like,
I'm too afraid.
Speaker 5 (41:37):
I gotta bring I also have to bring in Like
you know why this, at least all Wars movies were
amazing is because George Lucas was married to Marsha Lucas,
and she was his story at it. And we've this
has been kind of talked about extensively how much she
helped with those.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
He definitely needed that kind of mindset on these movies.
He needed an overseer.
Speaker 5 (41:56):
But I think when you've made some of the most
successful movies of all time and you come back, you
often don't have somebody who helps you out and says, hey,
maybe a little bit more character work would be great here,
or maybe we need to understand why they're falling in love,
you know. But yeah, I think that's a really fair read, Jason,
and probably kind of the most objective way of looking
(42:17):
at them, which is like, Wow, they did some stuff
really incredibly, But those gaping' holes you do feel them
when you.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Start to do the rewatch.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Well, Happy anniversary to Empolaws. It's wonderful to have Star
Wars with us. Coming up on X ray Vision Tomorrow,
Rosie and I will be accepting the Impossible Mission to
recap the entire Mission Impossible franchise In fifteen minutes, I
will be timing you.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
I will do it.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Friday, we're diving deep into Tom Cruise's career the action
stunt pieces featured throughout the Mission Impossible series. Saturday News
and Tuesday, we're visiting Jackson Hole one last time for
the Last of US finale, That's it for this episode,
That's really x ray Vision is hosted by Jason kenspcion
(43:06):
and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our
supervising producer is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen
Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 5 (43:24):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi A discoll Moderata
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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