The Fantastic Four: First Steps Instant Reaction

Fantastic FOOOUUURRR!!! Marvel’s first family arrives in all their retro glory. But did they stick the landing? Jason and Rosie start with a spoiler free review, and then dive into the spoilers with thoughts on what the movie does and doesn’t do well (or at all). Finally, Jason and Rosie give their predictions for the opening weekend box office.

We’ll be back next week with our Fantastic Four Round Table, where we dive deeper into the movie and have some dissenting opinions!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Today's episode will contain a spoiler free and a spoiler
laden conversation about Marvel's Fantastic Four. First steps were Hello,

(00:34):
my name is Jason Concepcion, and on Meersday Night, and
welcome back Egs, everybody, we dived evening movies coming in
the Pop CULTU you are coming in ver Mayra podcast,
where we're bringing you episodes every Tuesday and Thursday, plus
discussions of the summer's biggest movies every Friday.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Say in today's episode, oh baby, It's finally here. Instant
reactions to Marvel's first family joining the see you and
this weekend this movie comes out, and guess what. We're
gonna be at San Diego Comic Con where you can
come and find us talking about this movie and many

(01:11):
other things like Superman, our favorite comic books. We're gonna
have a recording, check our social media. We've got the
outline there. You can come find us. We'll be there
for the whole time. Baby, let's live it up.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Okay, but first Fantastic Four reactions spoiler free, first spoiler free,
and then we're gonna get into it a little bit
of a recap. Okay, Rosie, we have seen the Fantastic
four film. I got my little click viewer thing that
they handed out you Moss at the screen, my viewmaster.
I got my little card that they gave us, the

(01:47):
Future Foundation card. Did not see any read popcorn buckets,
but I've seen the film. You have seen the film.
Your thoughts on Fantastic four? Four steps non spoiler where not?
This is the non spoiler part of the discussion.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
I was enticed early on. I personally, they make some
very interesting stylistic choices. I feel like the first forty
five minutes for me was pretty good, Like I was
interested in what they were doing. It felt like they
were taken from the comics. It felt like they had
a really intriguing angle on it. Visually, it you know,

(02:27):
doesn't look great, but I thought it was interesting. But
then I feel like as the movie went on, it
was definitely very uneven and unfortunately some of the casting
chemistry didn't hit for me, though I do want to
shout out I think Joseph Quinn and Ebon Moss barreck

(02:47):
Back are really really good together as Ben and Johnny.
I felt like that was fun chemistry that kind of
kept interesting me as the film went on, even though
some of the other stuff didn't. How about you it.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, it felt you know, when you have Paedro Pascali
and Vanessa Kirby, you have some of these great actors.
It felt a little bit like driving a sports car,
like at twenty five miles per hour. I wanted them
to I wanted them to cut loose. I wanted this
is this is a the Fantastic Four. It's about the relationships.

(03:24):
It's about them being a family and the way they
all relate to each other. And it felt like just
there were moments where you felt like it was gonna
really lean into that and I and it kind of did,
but it should have leaned in more the family stuff.
For the action, you always know that Marvel's going to
do something action. There's gonna be there's gonna be said

(03:46):
piece action. Whether it hits for you or not, that's
one thing, but they're always going to take a swing there.
But contrasting the home life and the domestic life of
this family and what it's like to all live together
in this building with the action is something I wanted
and I felt like we didn't get it, and and
that left me feeling disappointed. Now this has all the

(04:08):
hallmarks of a movie with a story and with beats
for all the characters. But it just felt like, in
terms of going deep on who they are, I wanted
them to go deeper. I wanted more. I wanted more
of the relationship stuff. And that's I've really felt like
it was lacking.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, there's some reporting, you know, we that we've been
talking about off Mike where they said, like Matt Schackman,
the director didn't chemistry cost He cast like it was
a theater play, where he cast off one on one
interviews and then essentially, you know, gut checked himself and
said will this work. I don't think that was the

(04:47):
right choice. I think that some of the end result
no matter what he saw in those actors. I feel
like the movie is a little sterile. I feel like
in its representation of the family, it feels a little sterile.
I also found it to be, you know, quite kind

(05:08):
of like drab and dreary for what I would expect
to be Marvel's kind of compliment or competition to Superman,
because the Fantastic Four are always supposed to be this optimistic,
forward looking group unless you're getting you know, into the
kind of more deep versions, or the more strange versions,

(05:29):
or the versions where Read is potentially evil, which we
will talk about more, because I do think they're leading
into that with this representation of Read. But it didn't
have the kind of joy and the retro futurism the
early stuff. I felt like did get that and did
get what the Fantastic Four is supposed to be. But
by the time we were at the end of the movie,
I had some I had some issues, which we're going

(05:52):
to get into. I think it is a few texted
and you were like, it's fine, and I think that
is the truth. Like it's a fine movie. I think
for some people it's gonna be really exciting. For me,
it just didn't tick those boxes, though I do think
there are some really great sequences that actually are from
a better version of the movie. I don't know if

(06:14):
this movie was I don't know if this movie was
kind of movie by committee. I don't know if it
was killed by all these hilariously rumored, you know, bad
test screenings that Reddit is talking about with some really
funny stories on there. But like, I can't quite work
out why it didn't work, though I do have a

(06:36):
few theories, because there's a lot of good Easter eggs
in here, So I think there's some ways they can
kind of come away from this and not have to
commit as hard as they did.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, I mean, I think you just need I think
we needed more. It's the Fantastic Four, and it's really
striking how little they are, all four of them in
the same scene. It's like Sue and Johnny or Johnny
and and Ben or Sue and read or read in Franklin.

(07:05):
You don't, except for like a little snippet at the beginning,
you don't really get them all together talking, just being
a family, whether that means bickering or whatever whatever they're doing,
you don't get that feeling of them hanging out together,
and so it feels almost siloed off. And even when

(07:26):
they're in action, there's no Yes, there is no synergy,
you know, there's no I mean, this is an X
Men moment, right. But one of the coolest things the
X Men do is like the Fastball Special, because you
get to see two characters figure out how they can
use their powers together, and here they're always using their
power separately. Johnny's flying off alone, Ben is off punching

(07:49):
something by himself, and one shot read is stretching by himself,
SU's in the car, or Sue's doing pushing Galactus on
her own. We need they needed to be doing where
their powers interact, and they interact in the midst of
the action, and it didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I think that that speaks to the biggest issue with
this movie, which is Marvel the CG. I kind I
don't want to blame the animators because I know that
the only reason that doesn't look crisp as fuck is
because they didn't have time. But like I think, Marvel
has gotten used to being able to do not great

(08:26):
CGI and getting away with it. There's one moment where
Ben and Johnny used their powers together and it was
like the first moment in about an hour where I
started to get goosebumps. It worked, but it feels like
to me, whoever was visualizing this movie, and as we
learned from watching the movie and watching the credits, there
is like five or six people who were involved in

(08:47):
writing this movie, and it definitely was.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Were credited screenwriters. Five.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, it was a very complex, clearly processed, but I
feel like the one thing they couldn't get right was
like how the powers should look now, I saying that
I do really like the way they represented the invisible
women's powers.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
That was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
But otherwise, and I'll have some funny things to say
about that in our round table in our recap, But
other than that, like I think they should have gone
for Johnny actually looking more like the human torch with
the stripes or something. We've seen people burning through the
sky before. You know, the thing, what are his powers really?
We don't even like aside from he can lift a

(09:28):
car and he's made of rocks. They don't really showcase
what he can do in a fight, which is kind
of strange and the biggest thing of all guys. And
this is not a spoiler. You know, read stretches, but
it doesn't. It doesn't hit like I have been talking
about this. I wrote an article about this. I have

(09:48):
seen the One Piece live action TV show on Netflix,
and that problem solved the stretching issue. They did it
with Loofy. It looked fantastic. It was all about mass displacement,
the way that his limbs kind of snapped back. It
was really great. Cgi I wrote an article and I
believe the headline was like one Piece just solved Marvel's

(10:09):
biggest problem, like why Marvel didn't go to that specific
team and say, hey, this looks fantastic, how do we
do it? Can we hire you? There's a part in
the movie where he gets that's a spoiler. Okay, I'm talking,
let's let's do a spoilers because I think the generals Okay, wait, no, no, first, actually,
what's your what's your like star rating? Coming out of.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
The star rating out of five? Are we doing like five?
I'd give it a soft three.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
It's a soft like a two and a half three, like.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
A two and a half to three. It's not bad.
And I enjoyed it, and I'm I found myself thinking
of like some early Marvel Phase one things where the Hulk,
for instance, which wasn't which was good but not great,
or even like Captain America First Avenger, which all the
time I didn't love right slow, but because of like

(11:04):
the framework that I understood was in place, I was
tremendously excited. And so I guess a lot of it
will be like how excited are you for Doomsday? I
think I'm pretty excited for that. But it was still
a soft, a soft three, and I think it left
me feeling like they could have done so much more.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
I'm a soft three too. I think it is uh
feels it feels like they could have done a lot more.
I also think that if this the whole time, especially
once Galactus arrives and the people know I love Galactus
as once that started to really like come into play,
I was like, oh my god, if you could erase

(11:44):
or move this movie back in time, do the Fox
deal quicker or be more patient. And this is the
first thing that comes out after Endgame. I think it's
a fucking banger, even though it's flawed, because you'd feel like, Wow,
they're doing something so different. They're bringing us something completely different,
whereas now it's taken them two phases. They're talking about
phase six now. I feel like most people don't even

(12:06):
know what Kevin fag is talking about when he says
that stuff now, and I just feel like it took
too long and it didn't hit hard enough, which feels
like the opposite of Superman, which came true super quick
and feels like it landed in a way that people
needed in twenty twenty five. This doesn't feel like a
necessary watch in twenty twenty five. Sadly, which I think

(12:31):
for people like us who've been waiting for the Fantastic
Four to arrive for so long, is a crazy thing
to say.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yes, I agree, Okay, we're gonna go to break and
we'll agree it back.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
And we're back. We're back.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Okay, let's go into our recap. We open in sometime
and I guess the sixties in Earth eight to eight
in the multiverse.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yes, nice nod. Jack Kirby's birthday there, twenty eighth of August.
This is a movie. The one thing I do love.
It is filled with knots to Jack Kirby direct and
filled which is nice.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Quotes from him. It's one that part of it is
really wonderful and warm. The Fantastic Four exists four years previously.
They famously flew up to space where they got bombarded
with cosmic rays that altered their DNA, and they came
back they had different powers, and in that time they've
been battling, you know, the Wizard the moment, the moment,

(13:45):
and we opened with this wonderful moment that apparently there
had been like a moleman human war and Sue had
broken peace between the Subterranea and Earth.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Which funnily enough, actually does feel like it directly leads
in from that Matt Fraction prequel book were talking about.
I was surprised Paul Waterhouser wasn't excited for him as
more Man, but I thought I was one of the
funniest roles. Also very surprised because in this moment where
you see kind of all the different things they've done,
they kept in the mention of red Ghosts. They kept

(14:21):
in his space apes, which I thought was really fun.
And then we didn't obviously see John Markovic. He got cut,
but I thought that was interesting. I assume the space
apes would also be gone. I like this opening. I
felt like it threw us into a world we hadn't
seen before. I love the retro fusturistic use of television.
I thought it was a smart idea to essentially have

(14:42):
it as like a TV special we were watching. I
liked all of the ways they chose to do the
exposition here.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Can I can? I I liked it too. Here's my concern. Shackman,
of course uses the TV the TV structure to wonderful,
wonderful effect in uh WandaVision. I think, you know, we
could argue about it, but potentially the best Marvel.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
TV show, no question in my mind, I do.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
I left me wondering, like for Shackman specifically, Okay, what
else you got, Like Okay, you've done the TV thing,
now you're gonna do it again? Ayah and and I
and I guess I was feeling like, much like my
critique about I'm not going deep enough, I felt like

(15:39):
they didn't lean into the TV of it enough, Like
we have this host Ted who kind of is delivering
exposition Ted Gilbert in his show. He's kind of like this,
what's the what's the old timey?

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Everybody the Beatles the beritles anyway, So he's like one
of the ed something anyway, Ed celibate David later Ed Sulivan,
thank you. And there's moments towards the end of the
film where you go backstage and you get some of
like the TV politics of it, but it doesn't do
it enough to where I feel like that's a real

(16:16):
frame of the show. But I liked some of the
but as a delivery vehicle for exposition, I did think
it was useful.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
I completely agree because for me, once they moved away
from that style, I thought the movie was not as
high quality, So I think you're totally right. Also, this
does lean into if they want to get out of it.
I will say Matt Shackman did a very good job
throughout the retrofuturistic world of putting in very interesting easter eggs.

(16:44):
There is a shop called Kaplan's. There is like wonder
coded things. If at one point I actually thought that
the Franklin situation was maybe going to be explained away
as some kind of magic baby, because he puts so
many wonder things in that. So I'm like, you know what,
maybe whoever writes it next just says that was some
fake world, because I don't know if this has got

(17:05):
the juice to carry the rest of the MCU post
kind of an end game world.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Right, So Sue has broken peace between Harvey the Moleman
and his Subterranean people, his nation of Subterranean and in fact,
because of the hopeful goodness of the Fantastic Four, basically
all the nations in the world have been like, Okay,
let's join this like un called the Future Foundation. We

(17:33):
will all like decommission our militaries and we're going to
just like do global politics through the Future Foundation with
the Fantastic four kind of like at the head of
this as the kind of guaranteurs of world peace, which
is like a very interesting idea. And I've kept waiting

(17:53):
for like the hints of darkness to come in. It
never did. It was always good, and I think I
would argue I would have liked some of them, those
hints of dark I.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Think that's a really interesting point because I was talking
to one of my friends, well, I was responding to
one of my friends DMS, my friend Jules, who's a
fantastic young writer. Jules Green writes at pop Verse he
had felt like a similar feeling like the movie was
almost like too optimistic or too kind of flat in
its representation. I thought it was interesting because for me,

(18:22):
aside from this which is you know, I will say,
is going to make the conspiracy theories, heads talk and
the future foundation. I did, and I agree with you,
it was a little bit too like everything's good, there's
no issues with the global government. But at the same
time I actually found this to be like a very
sad version of the Fantastic Four, Like read is sad

(18:43):
all the time? He's why is he more sad than
Ben Grim?

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Doesn't make sense, Let's get into that, because I mean
that was Yeah, Ben Grim should be the sadder one.
I thought that some of the characterizations were a little
off to me. Let's get into that Read eventually, because
I thought there was a couple of moments where as like, oh,
interesting thing that Reid is communicating here, So okay, the
future foundation exists and everything's going great. We get this

(19:11):
wonderful early scene, which is a lot of the scene
from the trailer where Read and Sue were getting ready
for something and they're late for dinner. They get all
dressed up for Sunday dinner with the whole family. Herbie's there,
and this is one of the few moments where you
get a lot of banter and interplay between the family
as a family unit, and Sue discovers she's pregnant, and
everybody is tremendously excited. And then at a certain point,

(19:37):
guess what, the silver surface shows up shall.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Pretty quick, like I'd say, retty quick, five forty minutes in. Yeah,
I believe that's what they were showing at the fan
screenings as well. Was basically till Galactus kind of arrived.
So that's what they've been showing. When you see those
pictures of them all around the world kind of attending
these premieres.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
And Schalibal basically says, hey, glactus Is Cummings can eat
your planet, and you guys are finished, and then she
says something in her native language that corresponds to some
communications to some radio bursts that the Future Foundation has

(20:19):
been picking up from space. And Johnny begins to put
these things together to get on the case of these things,
to try and figure out what Shalibal said. Because Johnny,
in what I think is one of the more fun
subject agree with the movie. Johnny, it is immediately smitten
with the silver Surfer. It's a one way relationship. But

(20:44):
that was fun.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
That was funny. I thought it was a hilarious play.
I have to say I went into this expecting Joseph
Quinn because I didn't necessarily get the costing. I expected
him to be my weak link. I actually think his
Johnny is so insting. He plays it very differently. The
arrogance comes across in a different kind of way, and

(21:06):
I felt like this notion of him being really really
clever and also like still just kind of smitten with
a hot space chick because he likes space and he
likes Hot Chicks was very funny and well done, I thought,
and also leads to some really interesting kind of science
and space escapades later in a way that I feel

(21:27):
like more of Reid's story could have echoed. I have
to say that as we meet these characters, read's kind
of dumb, Like that was my biggest takeaway, Like they
did not show me that Reid could do anything other
than do maths on a board, Like he does a
lot of algorithms, but he is not coming up with

(21:49):
good plans. For example. The next part of the story is,
you know, they head into space, right, and this is
where a normal Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Sue is like nine months pregnant.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, a Fantastic four story would begin is when they
head into space. But here they've already had the accident.
There is a moment here where I died for the
costume that they put Sue in her kind of pregnancy
space suit is incredible. But they go into space, they
you know, chase down the Silver Surfer and they get
to a place where they kind of learn, okay, hey,

(22:22):
you're gonna get eaten by Galactus. You can meet him.
What does Galactus want? They go inside his giant ship,
which giving Kirby giving very detailed technology. I just wish
it had been a bit brighter in there. It's very
dark in there. I need more gaffers. I can't see
what's going on in movies, guys, other people stop making
podcasts up becoming gaffers. As the meme says, like, we

(22:46):
don't see all the brilliant work that I feel like
was there trying to make it look like Kirby Tech
with all these strange patterns because it's so dark. Then
we get this point where it reveals I believe the
main issue with the movie, which is Galactus wants Franklin.
As I was talking to with some pals outside that
I made in the comics, Galactus wants Valaria. He doesn't

(23:09):
want Franklin. I know that seems silly, but there's years
and years of cannon interesting stuff they could have explored there.
He wants Franklin. Will the Fantastic Four give up their
baby for the Earth? No they won't, or there wouldn't
be any conflict. But that starts to feel like a
very selfish choice very quickly. Right, So those moments, I
feel like, narratively they start to put those little cracks

(23:33):
in which is a shame because we then get, in
my opinion, one of the best scenes in the movie,
and one of the best scenes we've had for a
long time in Marvel, which is on their way back
when they're trying to kind of get back to Earth
without the Silver Surfer following them, without Galactus following them,
su goes into birth in space and they have this

(23:54):
anti gravity birth sequence which is so well done and
so fun and so focused on how close they are
as a family. And I want to see that movie
because after they get back to Earth and kind of reveal, hey,
we're no longer you know, we didn't defeat Galactus, here's
our scary CGI baby, which, by the way, why is

(24:15):
the baby CGI? Guys, I am obsessed with this. I'm
claiming it now. I claimed it last night. I am
the one who coined this. He is franksmet This is
a fucking Twilight Baby. It is gonna go down in
history as looking as bad as that baby. I was
sat three rows back in an imax. The baby CGI
face was looming above me, moving around, its head, sliding around.

(24:35):
It was horrifying. I couldn't deal with it. I was
like covering my eyes, my whole row was in hysterics
because it looked so bad when you were that close.
His little head was sliding around Jason on a blanket,
like imagine j.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Here's my conspiracy theory that the retro future setting was
put in place so that the bad I would not
be as noticeable, because everything kind of looks a little
bit off, strange, a little bit off, a little bit sterile.
And they're very clean. Everything all like too clean, and

(25:13):
and I almost want and you know, weird lighting where
you can't tell where where's the light coming from. Everything's lit,
but like where is everything's flat enough?

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Everything's dark in space, and it's like, guys, we want
to see what's happening in space. In space, that's where
the Fantastic Four do best. And so they get back
to Earth. They are in a position where they say, hey,
what does Galactus want? Did you defeat him? No, we
didn't defeat him because he wants to take off this
creepy CGI baby, which again, selfish decision. I feel like
Reid would have tried to talk let me stop there.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
This here's a much more interesting here's a much more
interesting take to me. First of all, I would start
with the they just get maybe this is like Superman
biased now right, but like you just start in space
and they come home.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
And then I gotta say, guys, Superman's looking is look
at tasty off to this mone.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Just just start right there. I do feel like, first
of all, to your point that Reid is done, why
are you telling everybody this right now? Just I hate
we just got back from space. We need to process
all the information that we just got back from space.
Here's the bottom line. Galactus is coming. We're going to

(26:21):
figure something. I'll talk to you about it later. You
don't have to go into oh, well we didn't defeat
collect this because he wanted our baby or he's going
to destroy the earth, and of course we didn't do it,
and then like why would you even tell you?

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Would you tell them there?

Speaker 2 (26:34):
And to me, it's much more interesting. There were moments.
There was a moment I forget the exact dialogue, right,
but there's a moment where Reid has like a crisis
of confidence in his own abilities and he's talking to
Sue and he's like, I'm not He says something like
I'm not good enough or it's my fault or you know,
and it led me to believe for a second like
that Reid had a secret, Like Reid knew something about

(26:59):
glack this, or about what the math said, or about
some way out of this, but it was too terrible
to ever contemplate, and he was keeping it secret from everybody.
That to me, is the more interesting read, the read
who like because he's so smart, he sees all these things,
but some of them are just so horrific that he's like, well,
how do I even say this to people? I know,
I'll try and solve it on my own so people

(27:21):
don't get scared. And that's how he gets in trouble
yep all the time in the comics because he tries
to go it alone because of how smart he is.
That never happened, and I found myself being like, Read,
why are you telling people this? And then why are
you so confused that everybody's like mad at you? Yeah,
it's much more interesting to me if the family tries
to keep it secret and then it comes out.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
I think so too also as well. I think that
you make a great point because the reality is this
version of Read that we get in this is super sad.
He's like a Charlie Brown read and the moments that
made the most sense was when he was like, there's
something you know so terrible inside me. That's all I

(28:02):
do is just think of the worst possible scenario bro
that hit I have OCD. I do that like every
single day. It's literally like my whole life. And it
feels like it makes sense for this version of Reid,
who is a kind of sad sack, sorry Read. But
the thing that I didn't get is like this Read
is so intelligent. He's basically, along with his family, made
world peace and option on Earth. He's taught kids. He

(28:26):
understands everything that happens. But when it comes to kind
of using his brain in the moment when they're with Galactus,
I don't understand why he didn't offer to like help
with Galactus's hunger. I feel like that would be something
that would interest instantly just intrigue Reed, like can I
make a Hadron collider that will somehow free him? Like Also,

(28:50):
something that we didn't mention in the recap is when
they meet Galactus. And this is very interesting and kind
of ties into a theory, a kind of cultural context
theory that I have right now about comics in general.
We hear that Galariason. Galactus wants Franklin is not because
he's like the most powerful being in the world and
he wants to utilize him to become some kind of

(29:11):
like super villain or anything. It is because they chose
to take from the really honestly like quite controversial Earth
X storyline by Jim Krueger and John Paul Leon with
obviously you know, very heavy influenced by Alex Ross. That
is the world where Franklin is Galactus, but that is

(29:35):
like a small mini series and they decided to pluck
from that that. The reason Galactus wants Franklin is because
he knows that Franklin will take on the Mantle and
allow him to be freed from his hunger. This is
like again, and this is not a critique of Superman,
which we really did enjoy, but James Gunn took the
hypno glasses explanation for Superman's glasses, which was very hated

(29:58):
at the time because Tom King had mentioned it in
a meeting. We are kind of getting to this really
interesting place where the comics that were supposed to change
the world and storytelling and shape the stories that kind
of generations would see are no longer the ones that
are shaping them. It's kind of these weirder, unexpected things.
So I thought that was a really odd pull, and
again kind of makes it way harder for the Fantastic

(30:21):
Four to argue that they shouldn't give up Franklin, like
there's I just feel like that choice is an odd
one and it sets us up for this kind of
action packed you know, second half of the movie where
some of the stuff, for example, something I will say
that looked better than in the trailers. I thought that

(30:42):
Julia gana Charli bal silver Surfer looked much better than
we'd seen her in the trailers. There was a little
bit more matt she felt a bit more whole, but
saying that there is a moment when she surfs through
lava pretty sick. But it looks like when Aladdin and
a Boo are on the rug in Aladdin in nineteen

(31:05):
ninety six or whenever, when they're flying on the thing
through lava. I was like, guys, how has the CG
not got better from one of the first times it
was ever used? Like they did not give people enough
time to work on this, and I felt like some
of the action and some of the CG just really
took me out of what the vibe of the movie
was kind of I think missing.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
I think that listen, Superman had a shorter spin up time,
production time, and so much shuff looks great. I think
to me that it's clear to me that this movie
was cut, cut, cut, cut a million times, re edited, cut, reassembled.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
It feels like a movie of a thousand cuts.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yes, I think that Marvel. I think Marvel has enough time.
I think the issue is they keep changing things, they
keep going back. That's a great way to put it. Actually,
they have enough time if they kind of lock their
movie in. For instance, Here's to me is a huge
tell to me that this movie was changed a lot. Uh. Franklin,
he's very powerful. Galactys can sense it. He's gonna be

(32:07):
Galactus's successor, Galactus hopes. Glactus says he's very powerful. Rita
is like, no, Scandamy's normal. He's like, that's because he's hiding.
He's hiding his true nature from you. Okay, why do
we never get even a single instance of Franklin doing
anything powerful except for till the end, right, he never
lifts anything. There's never anything, and you know there must

(32:31):
be stuff, but they probably cut it out. It's not
there anymore.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Right, I'm gonna tell you why. This is my biggest
theory about this movie. And I think even though, like
you know, I kind of feel almost like I'm on
drugs thinking about the fact that I've seen this movie, Guys,
I've been waiting for this movie since before existed. I
was in the comic shop ten eleven years ago, annoying
people talking about how they would get the Fantastic Four

(32:56):
into the MCU, to the point where it became like
a trope of my carrot so that my friends would
get annoyed about it. Feels so weird to have said
it and to have seen it, and to be sitting
here in it not be this kind of groundbreaking thing
that that's not the world we live in. We've had
so many superhero movies. I think the biggest issue with
this movie. I think the reason that we didn't see Franklin,

(33:16):
and I think something that Disney was probably incredibly aware
about is that to an entire generation of people, this
movie is going to seem derivative of The Incredibles, and
I think that is why they do not have Franklin
doing multiple powers, because it makes him seem too much
like Jack's because I was watching the movie. There is

(33:38):
a character. The end of the movie has a character
who drills into the ground, and that is very similar
to where we end up in the end of this
movie with more Man. Now, all of that is to say, guys,
the reason Pixar made The Incredibles is because Marvel did
not have the Fantastic Four rights, so they made an
animated you know, scratch the kind of license numbers off,

(33:59):
and you have some new version in The Incredibles. But
I actually think they got too into their own heads
and started worrying that it seemed too much like The Incredibles,
because yeah, we never see anything that Franklin does. The
only thing you get is at the end, which is crazy,
and also like I got we got to talk about
that because it's insane. But like, also, the thing that

(34:20):
they decided to do was to seeg his face to
try and make him seem emotionally intelligent, which, by the way,
is what happens in fucking Twilight. That's why they see
g the baby's face, because she is emotionally intelligent and
constantly growing. So I think they wanted to show it
that way, but it was not hitting visually, and then
you end up in a situation where I feel like

(34:41):
as we like, the next part of the recap is
essentially Galactus comes to Earth and they come up with
a plan, which, by the way, bad plan. Let's talk
about the plan.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
I mean it's very much like a like a three
body problem type plan where the future foundation and well,
first of all, everybody gets mad at Sue and then
the family because they're this is what they're doing. They're
choosing their child over you know, six billion people on Earth,
and you people start protesting. Let's they start saying, like

(35:13):
I have a family too. Sue goes out with the
baby and basically talks everybody down. Gives this big speech
about how she's not going to sacrifice her baby for Earth,
but she's not going to sacrifice Earth either, that they're
going to save Earth, and it works. I don't think
like I would have been sold by it, but everybody

(35:35):
definitely buys it. In the movie, I was like, I'm
not your family.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
I'm not living in the back like where am I
living in this retrofuturistic world? But everyone else lives in
like Brownstones. We never see anyone's like quality of life.
We just see like a school in a synegogue with
some kids, which is like cute, you know, but I
don't feel like we know, I wouldn't buy everybody buys it.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
And then kind of Sue says something thing that makes
Read realize, Oh, the teleporter that I was working on,
I can just scale it up and we can teleport
the entire planet out of Galactus's way.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Okay, cool plan, cool plan.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
While that's happening, Johnny is breaking down the space messages
using his understanding of Shahla Baal's language because he had
gotten one kind of like translated snippet. She had told
him what the one thing that she had said to
him meant, so he was able to like back engineer
the rest of the right clever.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Behavior more of a read behavior in my opinion. But
I love that Johnny want to go for it, live
it up man. Maybe he's the cleverest.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Well, they had to give him something because Johnny's usual
thing is like, I fuck but it's a Disney movie,
so that I can't fuck it.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Okay, wait, pause, let's talk about this momentarily. I know
we will dig into it more in our roundtable, which
it produces are chomping at the bit to get to
after our I was gonna say, I was gonna say, okay, okay, yeah,
let's start to break and then we'll come back and
talk about the sexless, fantastic pour and we're back.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Okay, Rosie, what were you gonna say?

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Basically, all I was gonna say is in relation to
this thing, like, yeah, Johnny wants to have sex with
this off surfer. It's very fun, but it doesn't feel
like they have had sex and in a movie where
there is a baby, even though I do believe from
like the very early interactions between them that this version
of readings who have fucked the movie is generally like

(37:49):
very sterile, very sexless. It doesn't feel like Johnny is
kind of a guy who's going out being a lothario.
It more feels like he's got a crush on an
untouchable space lady because then he actually will never have
to commit to it. Even the Ben relationship, which spoiler, guys,
there is no Alisha Masters here. We don't get a

(38:09):
beautiful blind girlfriend. Instead, we get a new character, natash Leone.
She plays a character. I believe her name is like
Rachel Rosaman. I think The reason that they did that
is because as that relationship continues, they will probably end
up calling her Ros, which was Jack Kirby's wife's name.
And I think again it's another allusion to how much

(38:30):
Kirby made the Fantastic Four. He was the creator of Galactus,
I mean co creator of Galactus, creator of Silver Surfer.
He did that without Stan's knowledge. Stan was not a fan,
ended up becoming obviously an iconic character. And I love
like we even get a moment when kind of all
this destruction is going on and there's a fight. We

(38:50):
see two guys inside Timely Comics, which is what Marvel
was called back in the day, and they're they're looking
out drawing, and it's obviously meant to be Jack and Stan.
I love all those little twists, but again Ben needs
to have a Leisha in my opinion, Hey, he can
maybe have this Ros version, but even then it's very
un sexualized, unadult. It's very like, hey, I have a

(39:15):
crush on you. I'm gonna come to your space. It's
a weird choice because I feel like with Pedro, with
Vanessa Kirby characters actors who have both shown how like
sexy and sultry and interesting they could be. I feel
like the sterile nature of it is a strange choice. Hey,
I don't get it, especially yeah, say yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Was gonna say, especially coming off of Superman, where Lois
and Clark are making out like all the time.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
And also obviously fuck no. But this is the this
is the problem that I think Marvel is going to
find itself in. Superman was the underdog. I don't necessarily
know that should have been the case, because I think
our perception of what Superman is often writes out the
fact that Superman's logo itself is a cultural icon. It

(40:05):
has a lot of connections around the world, it has
connections here. I think people love it. I think they
want hope. But I don't think there was any world
where Marvel thought that Fantastic Four would be the not
as good movie, which is why it's placed afterwards. I
think they thought they had it in the bag with this,
but I think that that is clearly not the case,
and it's hard not to compare. I was doing a

(40:26):
straw pole just asking people, Hey, what did you like
more Superman or Fantastic Four? After I watched this movie.
I was asking critics I knew. I was asking families,
and every single person said they thought Superman was a
better movie, which I thought was kind of crazy.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
So they come up with this planet to teleport the
entire Earth out of Galactus's path to some star system
that's very similar, but the Silver Surfer destroys all the
teleport nodes. They basically like turn Earth. They put it
on like this huge, like austerity construction project where it's

(41:07):
like everybody has to reaction.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Very World War two, like you have to turn the
lights off, yes, yeah, and they together to do it.
But also like if you if you lived in that Earth,
wouldn't you be pissed? And the Fantastic Four because like,
why are we doing all of this for your baby?
Like just give him the fucking baby? Why did they

(41:29):
make it a choice like that? I think it immediately
causes issues with the heroic nature of The Fantastic Four,
And also like I believe that Reid would be so
intrigued by a character and a creature like Galactus that
he would be trying to do something other than just
like let's move us away. They're moving the Earth. Insane plan,

(41:50):
But I like how much of a big swing is
That's a great kind of insane read plan, like that's
the kind of shit he should be doing, even though
it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
But that doesn't work because the Silver Surfer blows up
all the teleportation device, leaving only the one in Times Square.
What do we do with new plan? We lure Galactis
to the teleporter using Franklin, and then we teleport Galactus
to some other part of the universe and we don't
care where. He'll just he'll be without his ship and

(42:20):
he'll just be done. And then Sue is like, well,
but you know all these people live around here, what
do we do? Okay, we evacuate everybody to Subterranea. We
patch things up with Harvey the Moleman, and we say, hey, Harvey,
can can eight million people come live with you while
we're fighting Glactus? And Harvey agrees.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
I Also, I just want to say, I actually think
that one of the weirdest things about this movie that
I can't wait to read about is like they clearly
went very in on Subterranea, but it is like a
minor point but noe pun intended because it's underground, but
also like it's like a very whole place. They go

(43:00):
down there and it feels like there was probably something else.
Also again weird for it to be humans. Is no
one talking about how while the Fantastic Four have made
this beauty retro futuristic paradise above, there's all these people
living in poverty below. I want to know more about that,
which you can learn in the New Fantastic Four First

(43:21):
Steps prequel comic by Matt Atchin. But then again I didn't.
I love it, like the reasoning, but I thought that
was very funny that they were just like, hey, go
live underneath here in this fully formed world that we
have never touched on at any point really apart from
the opening credits. Wild choice. But it's good. It works.
It's huge.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Swings comes down, he comes out of his ship to
go get Franklin. They do this fast switch a rule.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
By the way, this is my worst part where I'm like, read,
you are dumb, Like you thought you could just switch
out the bacinet, just leave the baby. Why did you
even make the bacinet like a bomb proof bascinet If
you're not gonna leave it there, you think Galactus isn't
gonna notice there's just an empty baby Like that is
some stupid last minute planning, and I not believe that

(44:12):
the smartest man in this world or you know, one
of the smartest men in the universe, this was his
best plan. Was just like switch it out, like come on,
my guy, like.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Who wrote that, Like think of a bad plad please,
So Galactus doesn't He's not gonna step in the thing,
and then he's rescans. He sees where they hid Franklin.
He goes for him. Sue flips out and is like,
now I'm going to push you all the way back
into the teleporter. She uses like she marshals like all

(44:41):
her strength. She's using a titanic amount of power. She's
pushing Galactus like two blocks back towards this thing. Reid
goes up, gets the baby, They get Galactus in the teleporter,
they hit it. He's going through and then he starts
to climb back out jump scare. Johnny is like, I'm

(45:02):
gonna be the one. I'm gonna sacrifice myself to get
Galactus all the way through. But then, because we know
that Shala Bald doesn't really want to be Galactus as
herald and only did it to sacrifice herself so that
her planet can live, she does it. Everything's fine, but
Sue is dead. But then and you saw it. I
saw it coming a mile away.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
He come out too. It's really funny, like they have
her dead on the floor. Also, this is another issue,
I think, and I think it goes back to them
not knowing how to represent their powers working together on screen.
They also don't really, like I guess, conceptually explain or
get like how their powers work in my opinion, like

(45:45):
I don't know if Sue just like kills herself because
she uses her invisible powers as a shield. Like no,
but don't worry, guys, because I got crazy Sue. Take that.
I'm gonna put on that round table and you're gonna love.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
It as it just does an aside I think, you know,
in the comics who Is, her powers are often depicted
as like her creating these kind of shapes like cylinders
and rods and balls and stuff of her force shield,
and she's able to use those kind of like cylinders

(46:17):
to push people or to trap that like hard light.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Or something like that kind of And.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
So I thought that while I did like the crystalline
kind of prismatic look of her force fields, I also
thought that they should have been bent around a concrete
sheep that she.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Was making that. I think that would have been a
really cool visual. Also, I was cracking up because like
the one thing that they must have been like they
were like throughout this we bat have, we bat have
Sue Storm doing some Jack Cuby for shortening dude man
that Lee were sitting next to each other and we

(46:55):
were just like every single time she came on screen
with just like like she's doing it. She's like she's
pushing back. It's a coal view, but like, let's have
a little bit of difference, guys, let's shake it up
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
So she's dead. Then Franklin uses what you know his
reality warping powers or whatever to bring her back to life.
She comes back to life. Her eyes are like cosmic.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
She has the kind of power cosmic inside her.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
It seems like, and everything's fine. We go back to
the TV show format. They're going to do this big
hit on Ted's TV show where they talk about everything
that's happened in the last few months and years. But
then they get an alert and so they have to
fly out. We don't even know what, we don't know where.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
They go again. I think make it more fun show
a tease of a different villain or something.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
You know, we get this great bit that should have
been in the beginning or middle of the movie where
Reid and Johnny and Ben are like all arguing about
how to put the baby seat in the fantastic.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Very funny, very good stuff, like in.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
The middle of the movie somewhere not at the very end.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Let's go to listen to some messages from our sponsors
and then we'll be right back to talk more than
because the full.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
And we're back, and then the movie ends, and then
you get the first stinger, which is doctor Doom showing
up at the Baxter Building Franklin now four years old.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, but which, by the way, like four year time
jump randomly not I think that was I know they
want to age up that baby, but like that was
very random. And also, okay, Jason, most important question, which
member of the crew of Fantastic four is the real

(49:01):
first appearance of doctor Doom? Because you know that was
not Robert Downing Junior? No, like which pa or eight?
What first ad was it like? And also maybe or
something I imagine that that would actually be amazing. I mean,
this does follow a trend because of course we know
that you know. Danos was originally played by a different actor,
Damien Poiitier, and then was replaced by Josh Brolin. But

(49:23):
for me, as somebody who's number one Dr Doom fan,
this did not hit I thought it was very mid
I did not like the way the cloak looked. I
did not like the mask, which was like shiny. I
also don't know why he's there looking at Franklin like
he wants Franklin to be Galactus, Like it doesn't even
make sense with what we know of Franklin's powers. Also,
biggest issue with this movie that this Stinger sums up

(49:46):
is I don't think you can make a good Fantastic
Four story without Doctor Doom being a part of it.
I think that's one of the biggest issues of this f.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
It also made me. It also left me feeling that
we're never gonna get Valaria. I think it's going to
be Evil Area and Doomsday slash Secret War is going
to be Doom harnessing Franklin's power.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Absolutely to become And I do also think that the
movie brings us to a situation where we can assume
that Reid is probably going to become the Maker, which
is another big part of that Jason Aarron Asadribic Secret Wars,
which we think is probably what they're basing a lot
of this on, because I do think that doing such

(50:30):
a drab, sad, kind of like everything is weighing on him.
Read is definitely the kind of Read who can become evil,
can become a super villain, can become disconnected from his family.
But I think the reason that hits so much is
because usually he's so connected. Here, we didn't necessarily, you know,
get that, and then we get a secondary stinger, which personally,

(50:54):
for me, I thought was quite rude, which is it's
like it's like a it's kind of just a cartoon
version of The Fantastic Four, and they're kind of you're
watching it like you're on TV, and then Herbie's hand
turns it off. But the weirdest thing about it is
they made a new song, which is, you know, fine,
I can't even remember it, but I love Michael Giaccino.

(51:15):
I think otherwise the score is very good. I love
how much Funny was having with it. He was in
his Danny Elfman bag for a little bit when it
started snowing. But also, can I just say met an
incredible another podcast produced called Jade Last Night, and we
were both The reason we met is because we were
outside when that Danny. We were outside the theater talking
about that moment when the Danny Elfman style soundtrack is

(51:37):
coming in. Sue's walking in an empty New York because
everyone's in Subterranea. She didn't even put a fucking hat
on that baby, and we were both mad about it.
We were like, white, take that baby outside, a baby like,
even wearing like a coat like, and we ended up
bonding over that sous storm not a good mum, but
the thing that I think again, it maybe sums up
what they don't get about the fandom. The movie The

(51:59):
Fantastic Four had a great, great cartoon. You don't have
to show that exact cartoon. I get you wanted to
do the kind of old school like Johnny quest Mouth
Badly Moving Up. But that song also has one of
the most iconic theme tunes of all time by Giorgio Moroda.
They were hit by cosmic yes, and I feel it's

(52:19):
like a disco track. I feel like they sort of
want to They wanted to make it something people could
accessibly jump into, but they also kind of took away
a lot of this stuff that has made the Fantastic
Four special made them stay relevant for a long time,
which I think, again, sorry to compare, is kind of

(52:41):
something that James Gunn succeeded at, which is keeping the
core of Superman and who he is at the heart
of the movie while doing a lot of different stuff
around it to kind of open it up. But yeah,
this is this was a hard one. I thought it was.
I was hoping it was going to be like better
or more consistent, consistent.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
I came away feeling like Disney is just kind of scared.
It was such a play.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
It feels so so played safe, to the point where
even the idea of like you have to choose one
member of your family or the whole world, it's been
done so many times.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
But they don't even dive into like what the societal
of Like there's no exploration about how people would turn
on the there's you know, a turn on the Fantastic before,
and even when they do do that, it's so brief.
Then Sue's able to just explain it away with this
speech in front of like fifty people, Like the whole
world feels like this, and there's just many things like

(53:39):
this where it felt like that the movie was cut
and changed and moved around a million different ways to
just make the safest version of this movie. And I
think it's unfortunate it just came away. It's not a
bad movie by any means, but it certainly I came
away feeling like it just felt a little. It felt inert,

(53:59):
It felt like a It felt like reading a Wikipedia
summary of a movie, and you don't get any of
the emotional depth or the kind of passions that these
characters have for each other. I wanted more family moments,
whether it was whether it was arguments, whether it was
you know, that scene with the bassinette that there's a

(54:20):
million different things that they could have done. They needed
like these you know, forgive the reference, but these Tarantino
like scenes where it's just characters around a dinner table,
you know, shooting the shit, and you need more of
that instead, it's you know, two characters together, these two,
and now these two and now these two. You needed

(54:40):
them all on screen more to develop that feeling of emotion,
like for instance, here's here's what was I don't know
what really anybody's other than the baby saving the baby
which happens thirty five minutes into the movie. I don't
know when anybody when any of these characters really want
or what their motivation really is at any given time.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Even then, like his motivation is usually to be changed back.
And I love the idea that he's at least slightly
comfortable and we don't have to do that. Oh he's
a monster, blah blah blah. But like what does he want?
Like does he want human companionship? Like is that way
he's seeking out? You know, Rachel Roussmann is. I didn't
get it on really any I think Johnny like he

(55:25):
wants to be respected by reading Sue, and I think
that was an interesting kind of take, But that was
something I was definitely reading into from what happened in
the movie. They don't really dig into it. Yeah, And
also like no one really gives him credit for the
fact that he is the one who saves the day,
and the way that he saves the day is by
communicating with someone and finding a shared language. I think

(55:46):
that's very interesting. Didn't dig into it. What does Sue
like to do apart from have a baby and put
I don't out in the cold with no hat on
with no jacket on, having a creepy twilight. Reneesme, baby,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
And finally, like you know, Reid opens the movie in
the kind of you know, newsreel clip where he's explaining
how they got their powers and what happened. Reid says, well,
I assembled the greatest science team. They also have it
in me, my friends and family. Yeah, and yet I
come up, if you're gonna say that, because that's not
the that's not really the original fantastic for Ben Gram's

(56:21):
a great pilot. But Reid is just like it's just nepotism,
Like he.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Wants to hang out, wants to hang out with them.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
He loves his wife, and his wife has this like
hot shot high school brother that it's better to keep
him in the tent where he can like make less
trouble than outside of it. Right, Yeah, exactly, if you're
gonna say, well, these they have these incredibly specialized skills,
what are they like? I don't know what Johnny does,

(56:48):
I don't know what his what is his specialty? What
is Sue's specialty? You know? And so I thought that
was another thing where you needed to say why these
are Actually it's not just you picked your family and
friends to go on this mission with you. It's and
it's not just well, they have these powers. Also, it's
here's why they are actually, Like what are the people

(57:10):
for this? What do they do? What does Johnny do
we get?

Speaker 1 (57:13):
I feel like we do get a tease of it
with Sue being good at like negotiating, She's kind of
the face of the Fantastic I thought that was an
interesting twist. I want to know what her specialty in
science is. You know, it's not like, for example, when
I spoke to James Gunn for DC dot Com about
Superman and Lois Lane, he had this whole kind of

(57:33):
I was talking about why journalism was so important and
speaking to him and Rachel Brosenhan, it was so clear
that they'd spoken to investigative journalists. Lois even has a
specialty which is kind of corporation reporting, and that comes
in a little bit. But it's going to be explored
more in other spaces. I don't know what is going
to happen in another Fantastic Four movie. I don't know

(57:55):
why they would pick Read to lead the Avengers. I
don't know why if they did come to our world,
people would have any more reaction to them than any
of the Avengers that we've already had. And also, you know,
and I was complaining that they were connecting it to thunderbolts,
that connection does not become immediately clear. My theory is

(58:17):
that when they were trying to first escape Galactus and
the Silver Surfer, we see them kind of pop through
different spaces and different kind of with a FTL drive,
they kind of go faster than light, and they go
through these different sections of space. My guess is like,
probably the it would be very easy to say, oh,

(58:37):
the Fantastic Ship was, you know, in their universe for
a minute, But then why do it?

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Like I feel like my I mean commit, I think
that it's a different ship.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
But that's even crazier to me though, because they can't commit.
Why not commit to that if you want to connect it,
connect it? Otherwise why do the ts?

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I just think it's a much I thought they were
going to do something darker and much more interesting, which
is the Fantastic Four try to fight Galactus, but then
they failed. Galactus eats the Earth, so they flee with
Franklin and they end up on this earth. I think
that is much more interesting they tried to do it,
and they've got murked and at the end of the day,

(59:21):
they didn't choose their son overdy.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Is it that like they essentially paved the way for
that so much that every single person I talked to
who came out was like it they didn't destroy the world.
And I had been I had been a skeptic on
that because I do believe that it's very dark for
a Fantastic Four movie, But this movie was kind of
dark and depressing anyway, So why not commit again not committing,

(59:45):
not committing? Maybe that didn't play well. Also, I have
to say I did think Alactus looked really cool, but
I felt like Ralph Enison is like wasted because he
doesn't really get to do anything in this it's so
cged over his face. Even his voice doesn't really sound
like he's that classic husky accented voice. So I just

(01:00:07):
feel like, you know, getting Julia Garner, who I literally
was lucky enough to just interview and watch in Weapons,
which is fucking incredible, the new Zach Kreger movie. Go
in with no knowledge of what happens, guys and Ralph
Ennison incredible. Thespian Pedro Pascal who we have seen in
everything and who we know can be dark and be

(01:00:28):
scary like he is in the Last of Us, which
is again why I think they cast him as read
because I think they want him to be the maker.
But we didn't really get to see any of those chops.
I feel like eBAM was the only one who's bringing
the same vibe that he brings in other movies to
this performance where you go, yeah, that's why you cast
this guy. Johnny Storm unexpected little fav for me, if

(01:00:49):
I'm talking about things that worked. I thought Joseph Quinn
was fantastic. I could see him in the MCU. I
kind of love that they made him into their kind
of like he's almost like one of the old school
like Rock Hudson, Heartthorpes, where they're actually secretly gay but
everybody loves them because they're really beautiful and well put
together and funny. But I don't you know, what I

(01:01:11):
think the sad thing is is that it very easily
could be that we never see these characters on screen
together again. And that is an insane thing to say,
but I think there is a world where we don't
ever really see like Franklin growing up or anything like that.
And the next time they said the Fantastic Four we'll
return in Doomsday, Well, guess what, They're probably gonna be

(01:01:33):
spread all over the world, or maybe it will just
be a cameo. It feels crazy to say, but this
movie does not feel like it's necessarily going to have
the impact on the MCU that it needs to to
keep that going. And I think that in the DC
Marvel movie space, I feel like DC is inching ahead
in a way that they haven't since the animated era.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
I think that's right. I think they're a scenden right now.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
And I think they are coming out a lot more
confidently with the stuff they're delivering, whereas Marvel just feels timid. Now,
I will caveat that by saying I thought Thunderbolts was
as excellent and it was a big swing and was
a bit like had a really cool message.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Everyone I spoke to said they thought Thunderbolts was a
bad movie.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Yeah, and it was with good characters that they really
explored their you know, their interior psychees and their emotional
makeups and the way they relate to it to each other.
I thought that was a really, really well executed and
well done film.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
And especially in hindsight, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Especially in hindsight now the money wasn't necessarily there, but
that's a good one. So I want to acknowledge that,
like my disappointed in the Fantastic Four does not necessarily
extend to saying Marvel is kind of on an you know,
has not put out a good movie recently, because they
have that said, this was a big one to you know,

(01:03:03):
Fantasy four is huge. That's a huge one.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Even Thunderbolts I don't think has hit five hundred MILLI yet,
which obviously you can still make a great movie that
doesn't need to make that money. But Marvel used to
be the billion dollar like security, like you would know
if that movie came out it is going to make
a billion dollars, And I don't know if this movie
is going to open to more than Superman. We might

(01:03:27):
open to one hundred and twenty four mil, which I'll
take some guests like perfectly, what is your opening theory?
Because Marvel can open high and drop, That's what happened
with Quontomania. You know, Thunderbolts opened pretty well. But I'm
interested to know, like the reviews right now are looking
pretty good. So maybe it will open big in four,

(01:03:47):
but I don't know if it will open to one
hundred mil.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
I think it will open to just over one hundred
with a steep drop. I think it goes like one
oh five okay, with a with a big drop off
week two.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Mm hmm, Yeah, I think so too. I don't think
the word of mouth is going to be particularly good
on this movie. I think everyone's gonna be comparing it
to Superman. I'm interested to see what it's out of
cinema kind of cinema score is because I feel like
often movies that are a little bit more you know, depressing,
or a little bit more kind of like drab, don't
often do as well. It's why horror movies often kind

(01:04:23):
of don't work. I don't know that people are gonna
love the ending, because I think everyone had kind of ironically,
this is a classic thing with fan theories. I think
everyone had read into what Marvel was hinting at and
felt like they understood where the movie was gonna go.
I don't really know what earth to eight eight to

(01:04:43):
eight really like, what does it do now in the MCU?
Is it going to become completely Subterranea. Is that it
like it's I'm I'm intrigued to see where they go
and I love that they did so much good. Jack
Cuby kind of nods that was great, but like, also

(01:05:04):
like do it mate? How about you like, you know,
you guys have settled out of court as families getting
the money, the estates getting the money. Now, how about
you know pay or marched him by making a really
fantastic movie.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Yeah, that would be good. I just felt a little
too stop playing it safe and just start.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Going do something weird, make a big swing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Yeah, to do something weird and good. On the next
episode of Extra Vision, we're diving into the biggest news
from the floor of San Diego Comic Con. We will
be there. Check out our social media for the itinerary.
We're gonna be all around see you there, and then
we will be delving into the Fantastic Four again with
our Fantastic Four roundtable. That's it for this episode. Thanks
for listening, farewell. X ray Vision is hosted by Jason

(01:05:49):
Concepcion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kolefman.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Faye Wack.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our discord moderator,