The Fantastic Four: First Steps Roundtable!

I herald his beginning. I herald your end. I herald the roundtable! Jason and Rosie are back to dive deeper into Earth 828. Joining them are Joelle and Aaron, and there is dissension among the ranks! How do we feel about Reed and Sue’s relationship? What’s going on with baby Franklin? And why wasn’t there more Mole Man??? Plus, our X-Ray Vision foursome explores how the shadow of Superman impacts the movie, invokes the Eternals, and debates the post-credit scene.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode Canadian spoilers from Marvel's The Fantastic Four First Steps.

Speaker 3 (00:06):
Fun post four. I'm not gonna be able to stop.
Guys killed it that way.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
Hello.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
My name is Jason Concepcion and I'm Rosie Night and
welcome back to Text Revision, the podcast where we don
gee be doing your favorite shows movies is currently some
pop culture. We're coming you from my art podcast, where
we're bringing you episodes every Tuesday and Thursday. Plus we're
discussing the summer's biggest movies every Friday and on Saturday.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
It's on Saturday.

Speaker 5 (00:47):
In today's episode, we are calling in our very own
Heralds of Galactus.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
They do a great job, wouldn't they?

Speaker 5 (00:53):
Joel and Aaron super producers to talk about Fantastic four
First Steps. But we are gonna be doing a very
fun Ryan Table. I can't wait to hear what the
people are saying, because this one's gonna be a controversial one.
And programming note for you listeners out there for our
X ray Vision babes, we are recording this early because

(01:15):
we were lucky to see the movie pre Comic Con.
So if we do not address any kind of like
giant Kevin fie G statements that we haven't heard, or
staggering box office numbers in either direction. That is why
we are getting this to you so you can have
it and listen to it while the movie is out,
because we are gonna be at San Diego basically from

(01:36):
now till Sunday. So yeah, check in for us to
be talking about that in our post SDCC roundup, when
we will surely have more news about the success or
lack of success of Fantastic four.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Okay, let's start first. Let's welcome our roundtable participants. First
of all, we have super producer Joel Joel, how are you?

Speaker 4 (02:00):
I am flum mixed. There is so much perfect, so
much happening on my head around this movie. I really
really can't wait to talk to you guys about it.
I'm not a huge Fantastic forehead, so I went in
with almost no expectations and I left more confused than ever.

Speaker 6 (02:17):
Uh oh, I own it.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
And then up next super producer Aaron Aaron, how are
you well?

Speaker 7 (02:25):
I'm still singing the post credits song let Us Be Devoured.
I love love that little acoustic number at the end
during the credits.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Again.

Speaker 7 (02:34):
Yeah, pretty low expectations going into this, but excited to
hear how Joel feels.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
And then I'll get into a well, let's.

Speaker 6 (02:40):
Get into that.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Okay, so we know how Rosie and I feel your
initial top level headline reactions to Fantastic four First Steps.
Let's start with you, Joelle.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
Okay, my reaction. This is the craziest thing I've ever said.
But y'all remember when we saw Turnles and we were like, Wow,
the scale of this movie. It dwarfs me. I am
in awe at the size of these cash. Yes, I
can remember that Galactus, what happened? That's all you had
to do was just be like, let's just bring up
our little files and now Galactus, who is also one

(03:13):
of these beings? If I'm not incorrect, I don't know
what happened. And that is basically the for everything. That
is how I feel about all of the things. Why
did this happen? You used to be so good at
like family dramas led by complicated men. Not here. Don't
know why. I feel like we used to understand New
York is a city. There were neighborhoods, and they had

(03:33):
different feelings and vibes, and it was great not here.
Not so when a glossal impact used to happen in
a superhero movie, we visit like a monument on every continent,
just so you knew that they knew what the world
looked like. Not so here. They're like the whole world
in danger, but mostly this little corner of New York.
Why is this movie so small when you have such
a large budget. What is going on? And what I really, truly,

(03:55):
truly don't understand is how Marvel has forgotten to tell full,
complete stories of characters. To get full Tony used to
go on a journey of just Oh my god, even
Black Panthers journey in Civil War alone is monumental. It's
so huge. He's like the fifth most important character in
that movie. I have no arc for any of these characters.

(04:16):
Nothing changes, nothing happens to like things happen to them,
but nothing happens inside of them. You're left so bereft
by the end of this movie that being said, Oh
my god, when they were surfing through that black hole, Wow,
that's really cool. And black Hole was breathtaking. It was beautiful.
They really put their like whole mojo into that. And
I also did like a lot of the Galactys' final fight.

(04:40):
It's the first time they emotionally connected. But the film
isn't stylized enough to survive on emotional vibes, and it's
not saying anything specific enough to justify how grounded it
is in reality. I have no idea where we are
or why to your guys's points earlier, it just feels safe,
and I'm I'm disappointed.

Speaker 7 (05:03):
Aaron, So, I have no formal film training. I did
not study film. I you know, like you all are
so much more knowledgeable.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
When I didn't even go to college, Like I'm going
to sell yourself.

Speaker 7 (05:16):
You're you're all so much more knowledgeable when it comes
to the art of cinema.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
I loved this movie. I thought, yeah, let him go,
let him go.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Okay, I'm so excited.

Speaker 7 (05:28):
I'm not gonna say this is like a great movie,
and I'm not going to say it's necessarily the top
five in MCU by any means.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
I had so much fun.

Speaker 7 (05:39):
I mean, maybe it's because my my expectations were so low,
but I there are multiple times when watching Shala Balls
like surfing through lava, surfing through a black hole, I
was like, this is a fucking great showcase of Superpowers, Like,
we haven't had a scene in a long time in

(06:00):
any sort of comic book movie that hit me in
the same way that like Nightcrawlers open in X two
where it's just like, WHOA, what a unique way of
doing that. And we've had multiple Silver Server iterations. But
her surfing that like made me think she was on waves.
I was just like, and he got me, I'm in
it and yeah, And I mean, listening to all three

(06:25):
of you, how much you dis liked it, how much
Ian didn't like it, I was kind of surprised because
I was really happy the whole time.

Speaker 5 (06:33):
I love this so much is making me very excited
because I always want people to love a superhero movie.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
And honestly, guess what, you are basically.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
Talking about the Fantastic Four in the same way that
we now talk about the movies that came out in
the Zeros. They were fun, they showcased something different. They're
actually kind of campy and great. So it makes me
very happy that someone with zero interest in the Fantastic
Four actually came out of this movie enjoying it. And
I do think that you highlight some of the most

(07:06):
interesting sequences, like the Charla bal stuff. Again, I thought
that looked better than the trailer. I think even though
the CG wasn't great, who doesn't want to see like
a cool alien something through a lava? Like, I love
that those big kind of epic moments worked for you.
What did you think about like Galactus as someone who
has zero knowledge of like that character, Like, did that

(07:27):
all kind of make sense and work for you? Did
it add to the kind of fun of the movie
to have this like totally craziest, biggest stakes we've ever
had kind of creature.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (07:39):
I when when he emerges for the first time with
the voice and the eyes, it felt immense to me.
Within the ship, the ship itself felt immense, and then
it was like he appeared in space to talk to them,
and like, is this hulking thing now? Granted, when he
comes to Earth he feels much smaller. It feels like

(08:02):
he lost a little juice there. But I understood too,
Like you've got to have him like actively pursuing Franklin,
holding Franklin, like so that we can have this moment
of tension with like can we save him as he's
pulling him? But that intro of him both both Silver
Surfer and Galactus I thought were introd in such a
powerful way, like we've all seen the clip. We'd all

(08:23):
seen the clip of Shalli Baal already coming down, and
like I herald your end, I herald his beginning. I
held Galactus like that was a really powerful age.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, and I thought she was incredible like it.

Speaker 7 (08:36):
I actually last night was like looking through her IMDb
to be like, what other things can I watch her
in that are not horror movies. She's like only an
Ozark or horror movies. It feels like like, oh the Americans, Yeah, Americans,
that's right.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah. But I thought she was incredible.

Speaker 7 (08:53):
I loved her interplay with Johnny, and Galactys felt menacing
to him, like I I hope he comes back in
some way. Who knows if he ever really will. Like obviously,
this is you know, another major Marvel villain that could
just be a one off and who knows how long
this universe exists. But I thought it was good and
I actually really enjoyed. You know, we get what not

(09:16):
a great movie to compare it to, but you know,
like Love and Thunder, we have the god Butcher and
we see Gore kill one god and that's really and like, yeah, galack,
this only kills one planet, but it's a pretty cool
set piece to watch.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
And we learned that he you know, he has been
killed five.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Dude.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah, I'm glad Karen's so controversial.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
I'm glad to hear this. I also think, you know
what a death knell. Aaron likes your movie?

Speaker 3 (09:52):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
At the edge of his seat, fucking blown away.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Dude, When Aaron.

Speaker 5 (10:01):
Likes your movie, does that mean that your movie is
gonna play.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Less or play more? We gotta stop paying.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
But this is good because I do hope that people listen.
I think you make a good point, which is, like,
not everybody comes to a movie with this like intense
like background in the lore and a deep relationship with
the characters and just wants to Like I would argue
that despite the fact that, like I have a deep
relationship with many of the characters that have depicted in

(10:29):
recent movies, that I too, just want to eat popcorn
and see a good movie.

Speaker 6 (10:32):
That said, I.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Hope that people share your perspective and that this movie
is successful because I think I think we're better. I
love these movies. I want them to continue, and so
I hope people like the movie in the same way
you did.

Speaker 5 (10:45):
Yeah, I would say, just like because I didn't necessarily
touch on this and not chat.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
It's like, I think the.

Speaker 5 (10:52):
Reason I struggled was like the first forty five minutes
set a very high bar for me. I just was
vibing with whatever that version was, which I guess was
the stuff that felt a lot closer to one division.
But like, at the same time, I also understood as
a somebody who watches a lot of movies, I was like,
how do you keep that momentum and that stylistic editing

(11:14):
and that kind of notion going on when you broaden
out of this TV setup? And in my opinion, they
weren't able to do it. But that drop off for
me was big, and they.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Either should have or they should have just removed that,
because that's what really killed the movie for me. It's like,
it's not that those first few minutes are bad by
any stretch of the imagine. I agree with you, They're
really well done. They tell like a somewhat interesting you
feel like you're getting immersed into the world in an
interesting way, but it also feels so redundant to everything
that happens after it that you're kind of like, why

(11:46):
is this here? Like we've sort of set up like, oh,
Ben's really beloved in his community, but he also has
some trepidation about like how he looks, but then we
never really get into that. It's always just kind of
like some out of the corner looks. No one is
ever afraid of Ben or has a weird reaction to
him or anything like that, and it's fine if they
don't want to go the monster route. But then I

(12:08):
just think, like, why did we spend so much time
showing that dichotomy at that He's like, I just moved
back to the neighborhood. I thought it's because I feel
safe and good here and outside of this space, maybe
I don't, but we don't get into that before the
shows start talking to Jason about how like frustrating it is,
Like I love this iteration of Sue and I thought
like her being a like un world leader with such
a dope angle on the character, but they just tell

(12:30):
us that and we don't get to see it, and
I would have loved to have seen, like how do
you get Moman to trust you? What is it about
Sue's approach to this job that makes her like so
different than everybody else. I think I would have loved
to have seen read watching Sue at work, because you know,
I feel like when you really love your bay and
they're the best of their job, you're like, oh my god,
that's my girl, like look at her. Like you get

(12:51):
to see like the moments where you're like, oh, this
is what connects them, This is what the binding tissue
of these characters is. And they just keep telling us
they're a family, joking a little bit, but you never
get to experience them as a family. I think families
yell at each other. I think the families are getting
angry and walk away and we don't get that.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
I see. I disagree.

Speaker 7 (13:11):
I think that they connected as a family quite well.
They have the family meal, which I think is a
really nice scene them coming.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
They do this every week.

Speaker 7 (13:20):
But Sue and Reid, regardless of whether there's heated sexual chemistry,
like like Clark and Lois, this is a lived in relationship.
These are people who've been together for years. They've done
this I meant space trip and concocted special powers from it.
They've tried to have a child for years. They've abandoned
that hope after they couldn't have a child. They're now

(13:42):
at a point where they know what the other one
is going to say. They fight, they argue, they yell
at each other because they're not living up to what
the other one what they want the other one to do,
and then they still come together Like this is a
This to me felt like a relationship that has lived
in This is not like a fresh new thing.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
And I like that.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
I sort of agree with you, Eric, Like I sort
of agree with like, this is an adult relationship. I
don't need all relationships to be seen me. I do
need the relationships I need to understand, like what it
is that has bound these two to each other for life? Right?
And I think that's what's missing for me, Like there
is a level of like, oh I like you and
you do good work that's not binding for life material

(14:26):
I need your work has fundamentally allowed me to do
my work, or like we've come up together through this
really difficult thing, and like you're the only person I trust.
You're the only person who understands me. Like if we
had seen Read try to communicate his ideas to other
people and constantly fail, but she gets it and she's
the person then I understand, like, oh, these who are

(14:46):
a strong couple and I get.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
It read translater. That's fun. I like that way Sue
essentially is the one who gets his ideas. That's cute.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
Like he's so intelligent he can't communicate with other people.
I just think there's a lot of different things they
could have done, and it's it's small, ticky tac things.
And that's why I think we're gonna have such like
an interesting conversation here and why this might be like
one of those teased out conversations like I could see
twenty years downline and we like it's my favorite Marvel film,
Like this really out for being weird and different for me.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
It's like every scene is about the scene, you know,
and that is why it feels kind of flat to me.
Then you know, read and read and see her together
and he wants to check up on the baby, and
that's what that scene is about. You know, they're having dinner,
and it's about them having dinner. I was talking before
we turn the MIC's on, like I was thinking about

(15:36):
this moment from the first Avengers movie, right where Colson
brings the Avengers iPad to Tony Stark and he's just
turned you know, he's hooked up the Stark Arc reactor
to the Avengers Tower and Colson comes in and it's
clear that Pepper and Coulson know each other, and that
throws Tony off. He's like, why are you calling him

(15:57):
by this like nickname? And then he's you know, ostensibly
that scene is about I want you to join the Avengers,
I want you to manage this thing, but it's also
about like the relationship of all these three characters and
why do you know Colson?

Speaker 6 (16:09):
Like wait, where where do you know him from?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
And by the way, like, I'm going to give you
a twelve percent of the credit for managing the Stark Tower,
and Pepper's like the twelve percent, What the fuck.

Speaker 6 (16:21):
Is that about?

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Like I did this whole thing and like and so
you kind of get why they're together, Like they're jousting
on an intellectual level. On an emotional level, Tony's a
little jealous. He's pretending he's not jealous, but he is, like,
why do you know this fucking Shield agent? When did
you meet this Shield agent? And there's none of that

(16:42):
jealous Yeah, who's the Who's you feel like you walked
into the middle of a conversation where there's all these
other things that you don't necessarily get that makes it
feel like a lived in full world, right, a full relationship.
And I get what you're saying, arin like the things
have died down, but still to me, part of the
flatness of this movie, specifically around the relationships, is every

(17:06):
scene is about the thing that is happening. She walks
into Johnny's room and it's about Johnny decoding Schallibah's language.
Ben goes to see Read and it's about the relationship
between Ben and Reid and why Read won't open up
to him. Johnny goes to see Read, and it's about
the space suits. You know, it's there's no other okay

(17:29):
thing that intersects with it to make you feel like, oh,
I you know, you ever walk into somebody's house and
like the mom is like yelling from the other room
and the dad's talking about something, and somebody walks in
and says, oh, this person called. You don't know who
that person is. There's none of that like dangling threads
that make you feel like it's a life And I

(17:49):
felt like I was really missing that.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
I think that's a great point. Let me ask you,
guys this, how much do you think that some of
these issues, even you're from the outside hour and as
someone did enjoy it and maybe doesn't see it as issues,
how many of these choices. I felt like they really
wanted this to not be like quippy Marvel, like you know.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
How everyone kind of complains about that.

Speaker 5 (18:10):
And I also wonder if like they went too far
in the other direction where we don't get a lot
of bantering scenes.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
In my opinion, we.

Speaker 5 (18:18):
Don't get a lot of the that kind of texture
and in jokes and all those things that you know
families do have. And I do think that part of
that comes from they don't want to do the Origin again.
They want to be like but the irony is they
say they don't want to do the Origin again Alah Superman,
which did that very well, But then they also do

(18:39):
the Origin at the beginning for forty five minutes, which
ironically my favorite part. I think if a story's great
and has a good origin, you can do it as
many times as you want. But I wanted I feel
like the opening had the energy, the wildness, the weirdness.
I want to see them fighting all these villains.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
Why are they in New York.

Speaker 5 (18:55):
Why in this version of New York or they're like
fifty million hilarious themed villains. How did you guys feel
do you feel like they were trying to step away
or do a new direction for.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
The mcu joelle, What about you?

Speaker 8 (19:05):
I'm gonna answer that question when we come back from
this break A.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
She's so profecid.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yay, we're back, Okay. I we were talking a little
bit about how afraid Marvel is. It's from a corporate perspective,
we can understand. I mean, if we again compare like Superman,
it's struggling worldwide, like at home Gangbusters worldwide. People are
not so high on people Americans right now.

Speaker 6 (19:46):
So we get it.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
Yeah, understandably, Understandably.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
I was looking at these numbers yesterday. It's just not
doing like crazy big superhero numbers.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
It's still like.

Speaker 5 (19:57):
Performing pretty well. It's just domestically it's really hanging.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
I think those.

Speaker 4 (20:02):
Margins make a difference to a corporation. So from a
corporate standpoint, I understand wanting to play it safe. I
think we're and this is the thing. You know, if
you've been tracking Hollywood news for a while, so thing
you we've been talking about for a long time like
this is not how art works. You can't play it
safe and hope to succeed in art. It just doesn't
ever work. You have to you really have to pick side.

(20:24):
You have to make difficult choices. It's what makes art
pop and connect to an audience. It's what grips people
to it. So you know, Superman may have detractors, but
it's making very strong, bold statements and it's connecting with
the people it was made for. I think Disney has
to release this idea of we need to be for
everybody and just pick somebody you want to appeal to.

(20:47):
I think, like, for example, if you want to keep
this squeaky clean, cool, but then this should be a
fun ass Avengers movie, like it big, like more time
with your villain who's more dastardly, and like in your face,
Like there is a way that you can keep this
very Disney, very like high polish. If you want to

(21:08):
do the grounded story, then we need the darkness. And
the darkness can't be hinted at. It can't be a suggestion.
It has to be that real for us. If you
want us to be in a real New York, then
we need to feel the real things we would feel
as adults. Like, it's a problem for me, and I
just think I also think there's recently, Kevin Figi did

(21:29):
a big like sit down with a bunch of different
press members. I read the Variety article on it, and
in it he was like, you know, we're always trying
to plus scenes, We're always trying to add more. So
we're never done, and I'm never satisfied with a script
or a film, Kevin gently love. That's a problem. It
is a big problem.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
It is a problem.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
I've never finished or satisfied. It's a problem to.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Say that's why.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
We can never feel grounded or landed in a decision,
because in a couple of weeks you might change your mind.
And for I think performers and artists specifically, they base
so much of like this hand gesture is because sixty
pages from now, this is going to happen. Like they
try to connect all that stuff that's part of their training,
and so when you don't have a grounded world to
build off of, you struggle. And I think that's sort

(22:15):
of where Disney is at right now. They're trying so
hard to a please everybody, b make sure that their
movies can perform at their highest top rank that they
have completely like negated story and arc and saying anything
for a chance to get some cash, and it's it
reads and to me, it's not enjoyable.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
I think as well.

Speaker 5 (22:34):
The issue comes when it's the idea of like not
making a whole movie because guess what, guys, and you
know that with the conversation around this movie, Eternals is
going to be making a return to the discourse even
outside podcast a. Sandy Eternals actually, uh, you know over

(22:57):
hate it underrated and I.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Said, oh, of course, but say this one thing, it.

Speaker 5 (23:01):
Is gonna be like people are gonna be talking about
that feels like a whole movie.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
Babe. You watch the movie. You seen the movie, you
understand what happens. This can't help to me but feel
like a little bit. It doesn't make enough of a
leap away from the MCU is established.

Speaker 5 (23:20):
It kind of feels more in the middle, and I
think that is a problem for what they needed to
do on a corporate level, and also the fact that
I'm even thinking about what they needed to do on
a corporate level. That means the movie didn't immerse me
and make me very happy. But Aaron, what do you
think compared to, like, you know, Phase four and five.
As someone who enjoyed this, what are the things that

(23:41):
made it different for you, that made it something you
really enjoyed.

Speaker 7 (23:44):
I likes that it felt it was detached and felt detached.
This felt like again I mean Thunderpoltz. I think I
said the exact same thing about that movie. If you
hadn't caught up with phases four and five and just
wanted a jumping off point, Thunderbolts was a good spot
to do. I think this is another good spot because
you don't have to have any connection to anything. This
is a different New York, This is a different universe.

(24:06):
Like the connection and how it will move into the
main MCU is not even explained in this movie, which
you know that was a bit of a bummer. I
do wish like there was something that like cleared that up.
And maybe that was too much again fan theorizing and
like how are they going to do this? Oh, they're
gonna send Franklin in the in the ship and you
know whatever. Like I was fine with this being a

(24:27):
little standalone thing. I did personally feel I hear all
of these complaints. I agree, Like, there are definitely moments
in this that feel, like Jason, what a good point,
Like every scene in this is the scene and there
is nothing that it's saying while we're giving you a
little extra stuff here, which again not not like a

(24:49):
great movie, still an enjoyable time for me because it
felt like I felt kind of immersed in it. They
got these little Fantastic Four created you know, baby monitor,
and they got the Fantastic Four created TV and like
there are all these little things that still feel in University,
and I, you know, I loved seeing Subterranea for the

(25:10):
brief twenty seconds. I do wish we had more Moleman, Like,
you know, I wish I got to see Malcovic.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
You never thought I did hear people saying that, but
it's coming out again and again.

Speaker 7 (25:20):
Yeah, yeah, I wanted him to do something molemanny ish
I would have. I would have just loved him coming
through in a big drill or something, you know. But
I like, I I thought that the their group dynamic
gave me the immersion I needed in them. And even

(25:41):
if I don't feel the immersion in that world, and like,
sure there's a shot of the Pyramids, Like that doesn't
give me the world, you know, feels about them or
their decision in not giving up Franklin, which is something
I have thoughts on too, But like them in the

(26:01):
Tower was enough for me of like, oh, yeah, here's
a little like immersive part of them and Sue appearing
out of nowhere on Ben's bed as they're just like
hanging out, and like, oh, I hate that was fun.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
That was fun.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
My favorite part of like, oh, there's where I felt
some texture when Ben turns to look at Sue and
he's like, are you pregnant? My whole heart left out
and I was like, this is the cutest, sweetest, like
I really understand who they are as friends. I will say, ever,
in the Tower it felt like roommates. It felt like
they're arey' all love each other so much?

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Like, yeah, gang roommates, Do more of that, Do more
of that.

Speaker 4 (26:36):
I felt a little less family than I wanted in
that space, but the energy in that dining scene was great. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:43):
Can I just say as well, these are close family
because something that I was absolutely dying at is when
they're in space and she's giving birth, which I do
think is such a fantastic scene, the anti grammaty bro
bro bro thing, not just that she takes off the.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Fantastic pants and things. Head is just all up in it,
like his head is right then, I'm like that.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
By the way, I like these.

Speaker 5 (27:07):
Guys are really close, Like this is like I don't
know if i'd have my my bestie up in the place,
like he knows you're pregnant.

Speaker 4 (27:18):
Last here we have to pause here and talk about
something really important. Okay, I really like here they set
Sue up. No no, no, because you've you've touched on
something that has I can't stop thinking about it. Sue
is an awesome woman character, and we have so few
in the MCU, and a lot of the ones who
are really cool we don't either a get enough of

(27:40):
or be they feel so forced cool that it almost
trips into being on for example. Okay, so like Aquay
is my favorite woman in the MCU. She's so boss,
She's the whole wag Sea like. She's great. She's supposed
to have a series that got canceled too that I like.
I like Carter, she's great. She had a TV show
but it was not treated well and didn't do great.
She kind of pops up in What If. But there again,

(28:02):
I think that her as like the British Captain. It
doesn't do much for me. I'm sorry personally. It feels
a little forced and it's a little wild. Here comes
Sue working for like peace and dealing with world leaders,
and she's so cool. Then she gets pregnant. I love
stories about moms. I think moms are so cool, and
we don't give them enough credit on screen and off.
When they get pregnant, they get shoved off into a

(28:24):
corner boring. She's like, listen on nothing, stop and bid
a great and at the top we're gonna get into it.
So at the top, I think it's really interesting, Like
we get this really tender scene of like, oh my god,
I'm pregnant. We stopped trying. That's crazy. This is very
common story for people to have trouble getting predate them
and you stop trying. That's when it happens. Lovely. They're

(28:44):
so excited. They're an older couple. They're a little bit nervous,
but all of this is working so well. They're like,
it's gonna be good. And then they're like, let's go
to space. I said, pause. She's a geriatric pregnancy, which
is not an offensive term. It's just the scientificiatric pregnancy.
She is way pregnant, I would guess, at least seven months,

(29:05):
but possibly further along. You're not even supposed to be
on an airplane at this point in time, and that
she's about to rock it off into space. This is
what I'm talking about. If you want to be grounded
in reality, then we must address that.

Speaker 6 (29:20):
Joe conversations.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
Joe, I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
I couldn't agree with you more because I think what
we needed in the they come back home and everybody's
mad at them scene is like read being like, Okay,
my wife went up to space to try and fucking
save the world at eight months pregnant. They you're not
even supposed to do any of this. Stuffy could have died.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Out head complaining.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
But let me ask you, well within that because part
of what I felt missing in with the whole question
of why she doing this is.

Speaker 6 (29:56):
She does what? On the like, what does she do?

Speaker 2 (29:59):
I get that she is an incredible communicator and her
ability to build bridges with Harvey the Moullman and his
entire society is like what brought piece of the planet
and there's other variations of this, but like I felt
like they needed to put that on front Street. She
is going on the mission why.

Speaker 5 (30:18):
To communicate with Galactus? Right, that's what the immedia aunts,
so would be like she is the.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
One to say that I agree with you.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
So really what she does other is like she tactically
makes them invisible when it's called for, which is not
something you could aid plan for. And b we can
go back and to read a little bit here. If
Reid is a genius, then I believe that he is
a genius. Is like, we need to attack a problem
on multiple points because we are now at a ticking clock.
They're like, hey, your end is coming. You don't have

(30:49):
a lot of time. Okay, what if I said my
whole team into space explorationally? No, absolutely not. Ben, get
up there, Johnny, you're gonna work on this language thing.
I'm gonna try to figure out the transportation sue. You
go be a diplomats and people don't hate us. We
have different roles that need to be inactive, and we
need back up plans to our play through, like we
have one Hail Mary. I'm like, this is driving me crazy.

(31:10):
There's no person would approach a problem this way.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
I think that the biggest issue I'm realizing.

Speaker 5 (31:18):
I love having these roundtables because Aaron, a lot of
what you're saying is true. There was moments when I
was just vibing. I think for me, I just this
version of Read is at the center of my issues
with the movie. I don't think he's clever enough. I
don't think he's inventive enough. I don't think that he's
taking enough risks. Ironically, he takes a huge risk with

(31:39):
Sue going to space, but like they don't even really
have a conversation about it, and then he doesn't really
take risks when it comes to like, I truly believe
that Read Richard's incredible mind would be so obsessed with
Galactus and the way that he works and the things
he needs, why wouldn't he try and come up with
a different idea? And I get you just gave birth

(32:00):
in space, very like stressful situation.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
But I do feel like for.

Speaker 5 (32:03):
Me that kind of lack of Read being the smartest
or being so smart, being so scientific. It was very
drawn back here, It was very introverted here, and he
didn't even do like something me and Jason talked about
that I thought would have been.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
A great call.

Speaker 5 (32:19):
Is he didn't even like do something really risky by
himself that would have proven that he thought he knew
better than everyone, and that causes like a conflict.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
And then I'm sorry, guys.

Speaker 5 (32:30):
I think you guys are having such a good, sensible, interesting,
diverse conversation, but I got to bring it up the
fucking baby, Like I'm sorry, guys, Like why couldn't they
get a real baby? Like, I mean, there is a
real baby, but like, why did they see gi.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
The baby's face?

Speaker 5 (32:47):
It's so distracting, especially if you're sitting at the front
like me, especially if you have brain rot like me.
As soon as that happened, I started thinking, oh shit,
it's the Twilight Baby. It's frank zmey. This is gonna
be one of the things that becomes a meme. Not
just that, guys, this is my other thing I just
have to say, because they didn't say it on the
other podcast. I have now realized that Bellis One has

(33:08):
exactly the same powers as Sue Storm, And once I
started thinking about it, the whole.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Movie was completely derailed for me.

Speaker 5 (33:14):
Dude, powers that they can control where they protect their
family by putting out a shield like she gets worn
down by it. The baby is a talking baby that
can emotionally talk to Stephanie Meyers. I don't know if
you ever read a comic of The Fantastic Four, but
you either have exactly the same brain as Jack Kirby unlikely,
or you definitely stole all of those powers the baby.

(33:36):
Once that happened, the movie was on a downward swing
for me. Even though I love Galactus, I love Look.
I've been pitching for a long time, guys, this idea
that this year is hot Kaiju summer. Every movie has
a fucking Kaiju. They made Galactus into a Kaiju. They
scaled him down, they had him walk through. Michael Giacchino
even did the dunt dunt dum like it was gonna

(33:58):
be Godzilla's the and I thought that was really fun.
But then I started the baby looks weird. Galactus isn't
the right scale. He's changing size, like we're watching later
Jurassic World movies where the dinosaurs would always changed size.
And I think that's where it started to get muddy
for me. It was all began with Frank Zme and
from there it was it was it was downhill. Let's

(34:20):
talk about before I went on that tangent Pedro Pascal.
I believe the man. I'm not gonna say the question.
Does Pedro have the juice? I believe he has the juice.
We've seen him have the juice. Did they make the
most of having the most famous actor in the world
as read Richards? In my opinion, no, Aaron, did the
read Richard's characterization as someone who doesn't necessarily know him?

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Was that a character you were interested in?

Speaker 7 (34:45):
I mean, I know I have a basic understanding. Yeah, really,
you know, I read you know, fraction comics and stuff.
I just don't have like a huge He was never
one of my favorites, and I think honestly he's very
few people's favorites because we have this constant comparison and
obviously to Superman, and I have been shocked this whole
time that you've thought this would be bigger than Superman

(35:06):
because Superman is just a bigger brand.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
But don't always do crazy well.

Speaker 7 (35:12):
And it also anyways, Yes, but for Reid, I think
reads not the main character of this movie.

Speaker 5 (35:19):
It's a s Johnny, That's what I'm saying. That's a problem.
It is a Swing Johnny movie and they are better.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, but he that shouldn't.

Speaker 5 (35:28):
Be the case when you have Pedro pascal as read
Joe Al what was your read on read?

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Okay, I have a controversial opinion to this groups here
I read I like this version of reading, but I
love a worry dad. Like a worried dad is like
for me, like, I'm like.

Speaker 6 (35:42):
This is so sweet.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
He's like literally was like, what if I took down
every gang at once? Like the ambition to baby proof
of the World is It's what endeared me most to Read.
And simultaneously the fact that didn't pass on to his
wife at all, which I think is really where usually
it's like you're the carrying case and now I'm like,
protect you at all, colle He's like, watch you out
here doing whatever? But how do I make this world
safe for my baby? I love this element of him.

(36:06):
I think there's a lack of dichotomy between Read before
he found out he was going to become a dad
and Read once he found out he became a father.
I think it would have been really interesting to see
this read that everybody knows as a top like adventurer, headstrong,
like confident in all of his thoughts like really like
loving the event, and again we get it in a speech,
see exactly.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
That's the problem.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
But that's what I'm saying, Like if you had given
us a moment instead of telling us, oh, we were
like really adventuring and now I'm a dad, it's different.
Show me, show me, like okay, here he is like
taking risks, not listening to everybody, like really on his own,
and the minute he finds out he's a dad, all
his confidence is gone. He's concerned about everything he's he's

(36:47):
isolating a little more because he's putting all of his
time and effort into these new inventions. Like there's that
gives you an arc, but instead what you get is like, oh,
this guy's become a dad and he's worried about it,
which doesn't give me a lot to connect to the character.
Everybody worries when they find outther becoming apparent. That's like
the universal thing about becoming a parent. But this guy
has changed dramatically and now his wife is like where's
my husband at? And the world is like, where is

(37:08):
our leader at? That's how we get into a story.
There isn't enough dichotomy between who were you before this
inciting incident and who are you now? And there's not
enough character in the who are you now for us
to infer who he was before, and so it's just
it lays kind of flat. I think Patron's giving his all.
I thought when he's been the calculations, when he's talking
to the kids and he gets too lofty's like, let's
explode something like there's so much like where you're like, oh,

(37:30):
I get the personality leader on TV type it. It's
almost there, but the writing just doesn't give us enough
to understand the man fully.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, for me, it's very simple of middle aged genius,
super genius who lives with his family and has no
secrets from them is not interesting period. What is his
internal life like? Like, what is he not telling them?
What is he not the world? He literally tells them

(38:01):
immediately he lands thirty seconds after the galactus thing, and
it's like.

Speaker 6 (38:05):
Here's every here's the here's the absolute.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Most crucial shit that happened. That, by the way, I
should keep to myself. I'm gonna tell you everything, and
that is I agree with you everything you said. You well,
But I think part of the reason it's flat is
like everybody in this is an open book that has
no secrets from anybody else, like what Rosie hinted at.

Speaker 6 (38:24):
It and talked about it.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
We did mention it in the pod. But like part
of being that smart is you see around the corner
and you see what's coming. Do you want to let
people know about how bad it's going to be? Maybe
he doesn't. And now it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Right, imagine if he had been the only.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
One this is much worse than everybody thinks, and I
know it, And how do I break that to everybody?
Or do I even break it to everybody? Now I'm
leaning in and I just felt like the fact that
it's just read telling you, I'm just here's everything that's
going on, and here's everything that I'm thinking, and here's
what happened with and him being such an open book

(39:05):
is part of why it didn't why it felt a
little swagless to me, Like I love that he was
a caring father, but he had a he almost had
there was like he was kind of personality less in
a way that felt a little drab.

Speaker 7 (39:20):
Again, not a bad movie, not to invoke Marvel at
its peak, but it would have been amazing to have
had a scene reminiscent of Doctor Strange saying there's one
there's one universe, there's one path where this works out.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
So I seen it.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yea been very cool.

Speaker 4 (39:37):
They started hinting at it when she's like what you
do hurts me sometimes, and that Jason was talking about
like that being the most interesting part to him. I
think that like if they had actually went and had
that fight instead of like the hard cut Disney decided
to make where he's really like, yes it does. I'm
gonna hurt your babe, Like I'm stupid smart, and I
have to see all of the options and if this
is part of being with me, and she could be

(39:58):
like you terrified, I mean, this world for our child again.
Now we have conflict, Now we have something to go
off of. But like the immediate return to the side
of like I'm sorry, I'll try to be better at that.
You're just like this is not storytelling.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Yeah, we're gonna go to a break. We'll be right back, Okay.
It's the it's the comparison that it's not a comparison,

(40:31):
it's not a competition, but it is a competition because
they are competing companies. Superman versus Fantastic four.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
Do we care?

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Is it like, do we acknowledge it? What do we
think if this movie comes out on its own with
no Superman? Do we feel differently?

Speaker 4 (40:51):
In Arrival? Read this old you cannot help but compare.
I absolutely think we would have a different perspective. I
also think we'd have a term perspective. If Marvel's last one,
two or three movies had been hit, then it wouldn't
matter as much. But because they were like, this is
so new and so different, because it's a property they've
been trying to get back, and everybody's very curious about

(41:11):
what's gonna happen with the formerly Fox characters. I think,
of course, like we can because they had James Gunn
and lost him. I think you can't help but look
and compare and like contrast and see, like, hey, what's
going on here? And when you look at DC hitting
it so hard out of the park, making it completely
their own, and to have Marvel hit you with another

(41:32):
like me like that's it's almost worse than if it
had been bad, because if it had just been straight
up bad, then you could be like, well, at least
they were trying something, and they're trying to shake off
this like dust and get back to something but the
men and the safety of it all. I mean, I'm
hearing life long like since eight Marvel fans be like,
I just don't care anymore. Like it's not superhero fatigue,

(41:54):
it's Marvel fatigue, and it's because you're not giving us
stuff to be excited about and to connect with. I
really like like the idea of Galactus. Again, I'm not
a big Fantastic four person, but Galactus is one of
those creatures that whenever seen me be like, holy shit,
Like he's a world eater. He's a world eater. She
pushed him back with magical rainbow forces. I just what

(42:14):
are we doing? Like why why did that happen? We're
we have tactical geniuses on the ground and they're not
at their tech Like typically what happens when you get
an emotional pushback like that where it's like one person
just giving it. They're all until they died on the field.
What's usually happened is you've had nineteen failures before that. Yeah,
and it's the last hurrah and it's the only time
to save them. And it makes sense. We have like

(42:35):
two tries that are honestly mediocre and haphazard, and it does,
and it makes what should have been this emotionally devastating
moment for a woman he said, I will do everything
to protect my child kind of silly. You're like, he's
a world eater who's older than our universe and you
got to just push him across a lot. I don't
understand you didn't use his hubris against him. Like there's

(42:57):
just classic comic book tropes of how we the villains
that they just chose not to hit here, and it
really bums me up.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
I just want to add before we move on that
I think this what you're talking about, Joelle, we're missing
the early movie scene that usually appears in these kind
of movies where there's some sort of fight so that
it's it's one an exciting moment for the fans, but
it's too an important load bearing structure because it tells

(43:25):
you how strong everybody is and how their powers work.
And the fact that we didn't get that before this
big fight, I think it makes it contributes to this
kind of murky feeling. Okay, Aaron, without Superman, you loved
the movie so like better than Superman?

Speaker 6 (43:42):
Tell me, like, is it better than Superman.

Speaker 7 (43:44):
Uh wow, So obviously I'm gonna say Superman's better because
I'm standing here with the three of.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
You, so.

Speaker 6 (43:53):
They don't be bullied by us.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
I have controversial opinions all the time. Say for it's
all good, we welcome the min I.

Speaker 7 (44:01):
In six months, who knows how I'll feel about the
two of these movies, Like I'll rewatch them and I
will probably like one more than the other.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
At this point, I left the.

Speaker 7 (44:09):
Theater for both movies very happy that I had seen
a fun comic book movie. And I think that I
think Marvel peaked with Endgame. I think Marvel right now
is Lebron on the Lakers like trying to chase his
former glory. Everyone is trying to achieve the same thing,
even Marvel, Like Marvel is trying to be what Marvel was,

(44:30):
and nobody's really doing it. DC is exciting, and I'm
hoping that that will lead into a nice universe and
we can get some fun Mister Terrific and some fun
howtgirl stuff. But I had fun. I had fun with
both of them, and like I left Superman, excited to
see more comic book movies, which I think is something
that hasn't been the case. Like I didn't leave Brave
New World, like Holy, I can't wait to get back

(44:51):
in the theater for one of these. And I left
Superman and I felt excited about stuff, and I left
this and I was like, I'm excited to see all
these people in Doomsday. I think the will be fun.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
So yeah, I think it.

Speaker 7 (45:04):
It will unfortunately be compared to Superman, as we have
done throughout this entire podcast episode, and everyone else will
do the exact same thing. I think it will compare unfavorably.
Everyone I think will prefer Superman to this, which is fine.
You know that's gonna happen when they are released back
to back like this. If it was on its own,

(45:27):
I don't know if I would have felt differently about it.
Maybe because I had such low expectations and was so
happy with Superman that that made me enjoy this one too,
And just like the residual good feelings about comic book
movies was still, I was still high on that.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
But yeah, I don't know that. It's not really an answer.

Speaker 6 (45:45):
I enjoyed it Rosie better. If Superman didn't exist.

Speaker 5 (45:52):
I think it's different, but I don't think it would
take away the biggest problem, which I think you guys
kind of touched on, and I just I think after
this conversation, the biggest issue is they didn't know how
to bring the powers to the screen.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
And I don't think that.

Speaker 5 (46:05):
Would be different if Superman hadn't been released before. Agree,
I think that this I did have a feeling where
if this had come out after Endgame, even with like
a two year gap or something, I think this would
have felt like a gang buster. Hey, they're doing something different,
Like it's still flawed, but I think post everything else,

(46:28):
it feels kind of like the movie should be better,
and for me it is that. I think you made
a great point, Jason, and you two Aaron this note
of like power setting. I don't think they knew how
to do the powers. I think the stretching was bad.
I think there was moments where as a comic book
fan who loves this stuff like reads, so in this world,
he didn't invent unstable molecules because his costume ripped, or wait,

(46:52):
how far can galect Us pull him? Doesn't actually look
that far compared to other things. I think it To me,
it comes down to the powers and how they represented,
and I don't think that that would have changed with Superman.
But Superman had so many different core characters with cool
different powers, like a really inventive green lantern, that I
think that without that, maybe this would have looked a

(47:15):
little bit better. But yeah, I think it's gonna be
the cultural conversation. And Marvel made that choice by putting this.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
This could have been.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
Their main movie if it was finished, but they didn't
make that choice, and they didn't finish it in time.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
I mean, Superman is and that James Gunn Era has
come out with such a bang that we we don't.

Speaker 6 (47:33):
Count Blue Beetle. We're literally like that didn't.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
Happen, which is also funny because the irony is it's
like a really fine made for teaching, which is what
it was made of, right, right, and but it's kind
of funny and we're just like, oh, yeah, I didn't
forget that Superman, they did it right well. James Gunn's
own suicide Squad was a huge bomb, yep, but they
still said, hey, this guy's got a vision, like, let's

(47:57):
see what he can do. So maybe focusing on the
vision in and not the money is the massive day.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Okay, we're heading towards Doomsday, we get a snippet of Doom,
who is surely not RDJ. It's just some guy whatever PA.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Was day Good for that good?

Speaker 2 (48:32):
I have to be feeling going to Doomsday and any
predictions as we head towards Doomsday and secret with.

Speaker 5 (48:38):
Rosie predictions, how am I feeling about it? Give Doctor
doomergreen coat. I don't want to see this silver cape.
I'm not interested in it. I don't know about that
sot out. That mask looks bad if you're I think
a lot of the problem with this is right now,
there is a very interesting resurgence with kids and gen
Z folks of enjoying what Zero's CG looked like. There's

(49:03):
been a lot of retroactive fandom of the Michael Bay movies,
the intricacy of the CG, this kind of detailed focus,
and I do think that, unfortunately, that means people are
looking back to the Odd Fantastic Four movies. They're going, hey,
this looks pretty fun, pretty camp, pretty colorful. I think
there's a lot of comparison here. I think they are

(49:24):
committed to doomsday. They've rushed that through their bringing back
the Russo Brothers. I don't know I would like to
see Doctor Doom dunwell, and everyone knows I was not
a huge RDG Doom fan. This doesn't necessarily fill me
with joy, but I do think, as I mentioned before,
lots of ways to change that, lots of ways to
adapt it. Shachman put in all these wonder Vision kind

(49:46):
of caplans, shop and all these things that made me think, well,
you could always just say it was all a dream
or a pocket universe or whatever version you want to do.
I don't think they're going to do that, because they
committed really hard to this. But my biggest this theory
is that yeah, Doom wants Franklin so he can create
World War Doom. He can create his battle world or whatever,

(50:09):
and then he will use that to craft the drama of.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Secret Wars or you know.

Speaker 5 (50:17):
Honestly, the weirdest thing is like I came out of
this with so many more just like joke thoughts.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
In my head.

Speaker 5 (50:23):
And everyone knows I'm a theorizer, but this really left
me more of like why did the baby look like that?
Which is kind of crazy.

Speaker 4 (50:33):
Joelle, I really hated this post credit scene. I hate both.
This one really upset me. I think a good post
credit scene, as established by Marvel, informs your audience of
something new. So like the end of the Thunderbolts credit
scene was fucking boss. We got new outfits, we understood
that they were. Now like there's a new conflict set

(50:55):
up between these vendors and the new Avengers and then
the fantastic for entering the papers great so much I
can take home and work with and pick up. That's awesome.
Doom is coming and you did a whole presentation on
that year and a half ago. Like I I've done
seen that. I know doom is coming. What do I
get out of here? I don't even understand, Like I

(51:16):
don't even necessarily need to know that, Like I'm working,
like ore Read and Sue still together because they were
having some conflict that never really got resolved, and it's
all very vague and foggy, and he's nowhere to be
seen in this apartment. Uh what is Sue? Is she
stay at home mom? Now they're just chilling at home
or like I don't understand, Like it's four years, You've
done a four year jump, but I don't know, like

(51:37):
what's happened? I don't know. They're just reading books and
now Doom is here. This is such a waste of
my time. I just says, of my time. Makes it
feel so dramatic. I just feel like, if you're gonna
do a post credit scene, like there should be a
reason for rolling the camera. And I just don't even
made a big deal. They were like, oh, if the
Russo's directed, I'm like, who gives a You could put
an interurt on this. It got the exact same shot,

(51:57):
nothing happened.

Speaker 5 (52:01):
I will say as well, Joel, you're making me think
like why as well? Like tonally, maybe don't bring the
verses in because hilariously, my read on that post credit scene,
so who goes into that.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
Room and there's like a sexy music and her magic
starts and I was like, I literally was like no more.
I was like, why they bringing him into this.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
Like they already want to five was like there'd be
another man in this house, like he's not here anymore.

Speaker 5 (52:25):
Feel to me, it didn't feel like Fia. It didn't
feel like Aaron, how is it for you? We're so
happy to see doctor Doom.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
You love him.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
I loved it.

Speaker 7 (52:33):
It was There have been too many Marvel post credit
scenes that introduced some new character that we're never going
to see again. Are we excited that Schiros again? Are
we going to see Clea again? Are we going to
see Hercules? Like there have been too many of those.
This was an in universe introduction to doctor Doom. Yes,
we've had the comic con panels, Yes we've had news
leaks and photos, but this was the first time in

(52:54):
universe we get doomed. This is an introduction to something new.
Like not everyone that's seeing the movie has been in
the subreddits for three years rising about Doom, so this
is an introduction to him. I thought that this did
what the old post credit scenes used to do, introducing
cap Shield, introducing Thor's hammer, introducing like a thing that

(53:18):
we know is going to happen in an upcoming movie,
as opposed to all these other ones that are just
like expanding the universe for the universe's sake and they
never lead to anything. So I thought this was a
really good one, and I I I don't care if
it was downy or not. Like the fact that there
was just a hint of Doom. We get this iconic

(53:40):
villain who's going to be there. I can't believe you're
going off on like whether or not read his home
and if there has to be another man in the house.
What a silly Like it was just about introducing Doom,
that's it, but it wasn't another man in that house.

Speaker 6 (53:52):
Doom the back of Doom, but it's not an introduction.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
Listen, wait, wait, we got Thor's hammer. Like nobody knew
what to expect next. Really like they weren't doing large,
like full scale announcements, and so when you uncover the shield,
you're like, oh, that you're doing more. That's really exciting.
Even Samuel Jackson's like, they're like, oh, here's the full character.
He does have the eye patches. Samuel L. Jackson, we

(54:16):
did the long coat, but there's enough detail in there
that you're like, I'm starting to get an idea of
like who this character is this And yes, the spirit
level Halloween costume where he's on his knees and he's
got the tape. Any action, y'all are gonna beet Ian
on our Comic Con news episode. I'm very excited for
the audience. It's gonna be great, lots of hot takes

(54:36):
for Ian. But I just I felt like, well, if
I'm totally fine with like, here's just a tease of
this character, but then you need to be doing something
And I don't understand what he's doing with the like
what who are you here for the kiddy? Here for Sue?
What's going It's just so out of left field and
not enough information.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
He was he was sitting in front of Franklin and
he taking.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
Off his mask and he's kneeling. But again that it's
not enough information. Aaron is not I need I need
a here's the thing I'm giving you, here's the keys,
you're coming with me? Anything? What are we doing?

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Well?

Speaker 5 (55:10):
Also a big issue and I did bring this up
on mine in Jason's podcast, but I think it leans
into this, like they don't introduce Doom at any point
in the movie, and like Victor von Doom is like
a very important part.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Of what there is.

Speaker 7 (55:24):
In the un with the la He's not there, but
like so that was the.

Speaker 5 (55:28):
Well, like the implication of him being with Franklin, if
he'd been in the movie is like, oh maybe Sumin
Doom did hook up. That was always that like tension
between them, is it his kid? Like this was just
like a random guy coming to find Franklin. They did
they go to college together.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
That was my So my takeaway on obviously the final stinger,
I think is you wasted everybody's time with that. The
the first stinger, I liked it, but I thought what
you needed was one line anywhere in the movie Meeting
of the Future Foundation, lavarious seat is empty. Somebody says

(56:04):
something about that. Somebody just set the table so that
I know if he exists or not, and if you
know who he is or not. That's what I needed,
because now we're heading into this. You know, after this
the credit scene is that her first time she's met Dune.

Speaker 6 (56:25):
They fought him before.

Speaker 8 (56:27):
Does she know who?

Speaker 4 (56:28):
Like I don't want this.

Speaker 5 (56:31):
Room?

Speaker 6 (56:34):
Yes, and and any of that is fine.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
You don't know who he is? You do, like but
I but not knowing is so weird to me.

Speaker 6 (56:41):
Just set it up.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
And then my final takeaway, just like on as we
headed Doomsdays, we head in a Secret Wars all this
stuff is I am left feeling that I don't know
if Marvel has a plan, although I'm sure they say
they do, and if they do have a plan, I'm
not sure that Figgie will stick with it. Like I
think that this movie has all the hallmarks of something

(57:07):
that's been changed a million times, even up to the
fact that Malcovich was surprisingly cut out of it despite
being featured in the in the trailers right as apes
was still bad and the apes are still there. So
do we have a plan? Are we able to follow
through with it?

Speaker 4 (57:26):
According to Variety.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Can we follow Can we follow through with it in
any substantive way? So, because like, here's what happened, you know,
we talk about Marvel fatigue.

Speaker 6 (57:38):
What happened was Marvel ran out of story.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
That's all.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
It's really a very simple thing.

Speaker 4 (57:43):
Like it's not.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Of course, there was some heat that drifted away and
some uh fatigue with the genre overall, But what really
happened is you ran out of story after endgame, the
story was over, and yes there are these little solo
things it happened, but the overarching story was the story
and you ran out of that. So do we have

(58:08):
that anymore? Do we have plans to create that? Or
are we just gonna kind of go movie for movie,
jumping moving to movie.

Speaker 6 (58:15):
And that, to me is the question.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
I have a theory. I have a theory, okay, and
it's it's and maybe it's just what shuol thinking, because
I've been asking Marvel to do this for a very
long time, but you have to go younger, for the
love of God. Look me, I agree, must go younger.
And it's not because we don't want to see stories
from older folks. It's just that you have stocked so
much on the older folks that there's no space for

(58:37):
the young kids to get it. We're worried about like
a forty five year old, like having a baby for
the first time, like a five year old, cannot connect
on that emotional level. They don't understand. Johnny is not
enough of a kid for the kids to connect to.
I don't know who the children are supposed to like
fall in love with and connect with in this movie,
and that.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Is Johnny eat cereal out of the box, Joelle.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
He was in that Stranger Thing movie. He's clearly the
little brother, but it's just not quite enough. He's not
cool or daring enough to sort of get on the
vibe of like, oh he is like the alt outside
kind of bad boy esque energy that we kind of
expect from Johnny. I think that if they can lean
into the X Men and a Young Adventures team and

(59:19):
nail the consequences and the things that concern Like the
youth are concerned about a lot of things. Pick a
tough like is it climate change? Is it their rights?

Speaker 7 (59:28):
Is it war?

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Like?

Speaker 4 (59:29):
All of these very classic comic book things that the
youth tries to process through these heroes. Now is the
time Marvel to tap into those things, and then you
can get in Avengers versus x Men build into that,
and that's really cool because who doesn't love an Avenger
versus X Men showdown? I certainly do.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
I think what you're getting at also is something that
I've been Part of the reason I like Superman so
much is because gun is subversive.

Speaker 6 (59:53):
What do we even buy someone?

Speaker 2 (59:55):
He was able to put all these themes about war,
about immigration, about and and do them in such a
way that, yes, some people called it out, but he's
also like tricking a lot of people realizing that that's
what the movie is about. So much of what I
love about cinema from the fifties and sixties is all

(01:00:16):
of these subversive things about race relations or or homosexuality
that we're snuck into mainstream movies by artists who understood
that this is part of life. But my bosses are
going to say no, So I'm going to put this
in there in a way that nobody could really figure

(01:00:36):
it out, right, And we need that now. We need
that now from our superhero movies, and we need that
now from Marvel. And I think that The Fantastic Four
was a movie that was completely bereft of any kind
of subtext, and we need some subversive subtext in these movies.

Speaker 5 (01:00:54):
Again, I think you've touched on something really incredible that, Jason,
because Superman and DC are generally seen as the above
the real world. You know, they're the gods, the trinity
that they can't connect. They're more about fantasy, and Marvel
is always seen as grounded and talking about things in
the real world. It's much of what made people excited
about the comics and why they've had such a longevity.

(01:01:17):
And I think it's pretty crazy that we're in a
situation where we have a DC movie that's done that
in a really kind of both subtle and on the
noseway and works in both ways. And like you said, Jason,
this movie has nothing to say, which is kind of crazy. Actually, Yeah,
you make a great point.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Well, that's been it for a roundtable of the Fantastic Fool.
On the next episode of xtra Vision, We've got a
special recap from our time at Comic Con featuring Alien
Earth and Rosie's conversation.

Speaker 6 (01:01:49):
With Yeah, who, Rosie, Who, who might you be talking to?

Speaker 5 (01:01:52):
I'm going to talk to Tom McFall and legendary Spawn
creator and Image comic superstar and one of my favorite
comic book.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening. X ray
Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight and
is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

Speaker 5 (01:02:09):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kurtman.

Speaker 6 (01:02:13):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.

Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.

Speaker 5 (01:02:24):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Heidi our discord moderator.