April 15, 2025 • 53 mins
Jason and Rosie recap the first episode of The Last of Us season two, breaking down how utterly dysfunctional Jackson, Wyoming is, Joel’s parenting struggles, and how the show diverges from the game.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Worry.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode contained spoilers for the Last of Us season
two and one, so you better watch that. Be Who
are you listening to this? Hello, my name is Jason
(00:25):
Kincepsio and on Mesday Night, Welcome back to x ray
Vision of the podcast where we dive deep to your favorite shows, movies, comics,
and pop culture. Coming from my our podcast. We're bringing
you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus news.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
In today's episode, we are talking about the already heartbreaking
second season of the Last of Us, with the first
episode available on HBO and Max right now. And who
We're gonna be recapping that first episode. We're gonna be
talking about the issues with Jackson Wyoming.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
We're gonna complaining.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Love me and Jason. We're gonna be out here complaining
from our warm houses, whether it go some of these
telling everyone how they should be doing a bad job.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
We open on the final scene from season one, in
which Joel promises Ellie that his story of their escape
from the Firefly Research facility is true. Now, just as
to remind everybody, Joel's story is there were lots of
(01:33):
immune people that had come through that facility. The fireflies
have given up on a cure and it was actually
raiders that killed everybody, not Joel Elle, And so we
cut directly from there to the same site. It's later
(01:56):
the escape zoo animals are looking on as Abby, whose
dad was one of the firefly surgeons or a doctor,
definitely died in the facility, and other fireflies Nora Owen,
Melmanny and some others whose names we might not have gotten.
(02:16):
They were called at I think as backup on the
radio call, but didn't get there in time to stop
the masacre. And now they have buried everybody. In their
morning they talk about the rumors about who might have
done this. They know his name is Joel, but even
he might be Joe. They're not sure about that. They
think he was there as part of the cure research.
(02:38):
But also like clearly there's a lot of secrecy around
that because they don't have the whole story about whether
there is cure research or whether that's true, and if
that was, they don't.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Know about Ellie at all. Scientists, Yes, they have no
idea about Ali. The scientists died and that's it.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So what's left to do now? And Abby is pretty
clear on this what's left to do now is hunt
down the man responsible, Joel and take him out. And
so Abby's like, Okay, what do we know. He's fifties,
gray hair, six feet They said he was good looking
and that he's got a three day head start on this.
Owen suggests that they have some people in Seattle and
(03:16):
maybe the Seattle Crew could help them. Abby clings to that,
and she makes Owen in a kind of mirror image
of the Joel Ellie promise. She makes Owen promise that
he will help her hunt down Joel and also help
her kill him slowly with as much pain and torture
(03:37):
as possible.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Chill, just chill, like you know, everybody I get it,
but like everybody dies in this like and people get.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I think the vengeance, the cycle of vengeance.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I think that's part of what is so compelling about
this show for me, is in a world without law,
the only real law and reaper hushion is your own
desire to seek vengeance when you've been wrong, and it's
the only thing that could possibly keep people in line
other than them just feeling bad about doing something. And
(04:13):
it's a it's a terrible toxic cycle of violence. We
go to Ellie. She is fighting in a barn, but
it's just sparring. She's training. She's learning the leg locked,
she's learning the triangle choke, she's learning the arm bars.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
She's going into the UFC.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
She's good. She's Their noses bleeding because you got crunched
in the face. And this is all under the tutelage
of Jesse, one of the younger members of the Jackson,
Wyoming community, and he criticizes, criticized. He's like, you're getting
a lot better at the grappling, but you did get
punched in the face early, and try not to get
(04:51):
punched in the face. Later, Ellie and Joel are they're
back with Tommy and the Socialists in Jackson, Wyoming, where
everything's doing pretty great. It's either winter or early spring,
snow still on the ground. There's construction work going on
all over the camp. We're gonna learn that they're trying
to get facilities up and running and trying to expand
the camp because they're getting a lot of refugees in.
(05:13):
And we watch these work work crews dig up some
of the water pipes, the clay pipes from underground, and
when they break up the pipes. There's all these roots,
like tree roots, plant roots growing through it, and I'm
and immediately, immediately, I'm like, why are you so incurious
about this?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Why are you not alarmed? Also, why don't you just
immediately bun them? I think anything that looks like a root,
that shit's.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Getting buned in there. Like, I get it.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
You want to save the pipe, but maybe that pipe
will be fine.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Just bun them.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
This is the problem, I think, one of the many
problems with Jackson White.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
We can't wait to go later.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
The real truth is I love teenagers. I am on
the side of most teenagers this, you know, bah like
Diana is the one who breaks this pie, but she
has a child burn, like have an adult that overseeing.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I think something you bring up a good point, which
is that I think part of what's wrong with Jackson
is we're putting people who are too young into two
important roles without enough structure, and the people, the older,
more experienced people seem utterly and curious about like what
(06:27):
they're doing. Anyway, we will complain a lot about Jackson.
Joel is doing repair work on the breakers for the
electrical system of the of Wyoming. Dina Ellie's best friend
comes in and says, hey, the work. There's the work.
Cruise need guidance out there, like they don't know what
they're doing. I just broke this pipe open with all
(06:49):
these roots, Like what's going on? And she's like, but
what are you doing? He's like, I'm working on the breaker.
She's like, teach me how to do it. It's like,
this is what I'm talking about. You're working on the pipe, right,
Let's go work on the pipe. Like now you're just
gonna switch up and work on the electrician. I get it. Though,
Dina asks why Ellie is mad at Joel, So now
(07:09):
we learn that there's there's some tension between Joel and Ellie.
Joel is like, I don't know, but you know, she's
nineteen and I'm kind of like her father, so maybe
it's natural. He also recognizes that he is quite over protective.
I would say, yeah, carrying out a massacre just good hint,
(07:32):
that's the cat. And we learned that Joel is in therapy,
which is great, and he's twitchy about it. Meanwhile, Ellie
gunnut that she is is out learning how to snipe.
Tommy is teaching as a former military and army snipers.
He's teaching her how to do it. She's already pretty
good longer ranges a little tricky still, but she's learning.
(07:55):
They're shooting it. Infected and we learned that there's not
a lot of them in the valley, but they've been
coming in and Tommy is concerned about it.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
It seems like there's more of them than they were.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, there's more of them, not huge numbers, but but
a concerning amount. Tommy is like, I got to send
out a patrol and figure out what's going on with that.
And Ellie's like great, but Tommy's like, no, but you're
not on patrol duty. You're on gate duty because you're unpredictable.
On patrol, you're reckless, you don't listen to anybody. You
(08:28):
ride off after infected and go chasing them when you're
just supposed to come back and report what you've seen.
And she's like, yeah, well I can do that because
I can't get infected. I'm immune. Isn't it great?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And he's like, shutting the fuck off.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
It's stop saying.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That, Yeah, what are you crazy? Like, we can't talk
about that because various reasons. Ellie and again Jackson leadership Ellie,
as she is so good at doing, just folds up
everybody who gets in her way and talks her way
back on patrol.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Off like screaming into the mountains like I'm at he
shut the fuck.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Up, Chill is serious, She's not. People are getting killed anyway.
Tommy's like, but listen, if you go back on patrol,
you have to listen to your to the captain's orders.
And she clearly won't. We get that right, there's no
way that she's gonna do that. We watch a wagon
(09:30):
of refugees arrive through the gate and Maria, Tommy's wife,
is with Joel and Joel's like, uh, comptroller or something
off whatever his role gap. He's in there like looking
at the plans for construction and all this different stuff.
(09:51):
And Maria's like, Joel, you gotta like drive your crews harder.
We gotta get on we gotta get on our horse
with this construction. We've got peace coming in. We don't
have enough facilities. And Joel's like, well, I don't have
the manpower, Like I just can't.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Who do you?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
We don't have the people to be constructing at this rate,
Like it's just hard. And he's like why don't we
stop letting folks in for a little while? And Maria,
of course disagrees, and Joel says, like, and then and
it's a And I think it's a fascinating discussion. Joel says, Listen,
it's like a lifeboat if they come in at such
(10:27):
a rate that they swamp our lifeboat, Like what what
good are we to anybody? Shouldn't we take care of
our own, make sure we've got the facilities before we
just like let people in. I think that it's a
I think it's a conversation I think worth having. And
why can't they just like as we were saying before
the mics, like throw up tents, put some gap. What
about some like stuff outside the walls, some like shacks
(10:51):
or something outside the walls, and you can let them
in when there's danger.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
How about two people don't need a whole craftsman house,
Like if you live in a socialist call me and
why don't just like why is.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
In her own house? Why is anybody living in their
own exactly?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Like I feel like I get.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
It, guys, but like, if you.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Really want to help, nimbism is already taking.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I would like my own house.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
But I do like, why is Elly living by herself.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
In a garage? Like she doesn't need that, guys, like
she could just let a family in there.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
But I do like when it's kind of the.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Ultimate I think conversation around these kind of things. Because
Joel makes like a really good point, but as Maria
points out to him, she's also like, well, you were
a refugee once, so like it's that trustant cycle of like,
so it's okay for you to come in and take
our resources or whatever, but these other people can't. Like Yeah,
(11:54):
So it's a very interesting conversation. But I actually found
when Tommy returned, I felt that to be the most
interesting thing. When he comes back and he just straight
up lies about hunting with Ellie.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
That was shocking. I was surprised at that. Yeah, so
he just was like, where are you been. He's like, oh,
just out, you know, sniping, sniping, doing that, that whole thing.
Joel goes to see his therapist Gail new character for
season two, Catherine, Wonderful Catherine. He pays for his session
(12:29):
with Weed that apparently is not up to Gail's standard.
She's just like this weed is not good enough. Sweet
is bad. But I'll take it. Uh, and then he
then dives into his issues with Ellie. She won't talk
to him, she's mean to him, she's distant. Yeah, yeah,
Gail is like and he's like, you know, meanwhile, like
her best friend Dina is like so nice, totive, and
(12:50):
she wants to know, like what I'm up to and
what things going on? What's up with that? And Gail's
like basically yawning. She's like, your problems are so fucking
this is so boring.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
She's waste of time. Why are you doing this?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
You're her dad, she's your nineteen year old daughter. That's
all the explanation you need for why it's going like this,
So why don't you tell me, like what's really going on?
Because something's really going on. I can tell that you
have something inside that you're keeping in you're lying about it,
and why won't you go to that place? And Joel
won't talk about it. So then she's like, well, let
me give you, let me show you how it's done.
(13:24):
And then she opens up very vulnerable because she's also
effort and this is the thank you very much. The
substances are a little we got it, I get it.
It's very traumatic here, everybody's traumatized. I would be high, all.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
The fun, all the time, no question.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Question, it would be raped.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Why jump to be therapist and she's the only therapist, Definitely.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Why they've been that for five years?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Therapist has been that because please train somebody, because, as
you're about to find out, she should not be Joel's therapy.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
She should not be. She then opens up about her
anger and fury and sadness and heartbreak about the fact
that Joel murdered her husband Eugene. Now apparently she she
fully acknowledges that that Joel had no choice. It was
like a self defense killer be killed situation in which
(14:28):
Joel at least from a legal standpoint or like a
moral standpoint in the you know, in the contents and wyoming.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So he obviously didn't just kill him for no reason, right.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So but still she's furious, She she's heartbroken. And you
know what this made me think about is like this
Gale is that's how hard it is to break the cycle.
You have to be that, yes, exactly how hard it
is that you want to stop the killing, you want
to stop the vengeance, you want to stop like the bloodlust,
(15:04):
the anger. Then you have to be that person and
that courage.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Gail is willing to sit down with the man who
ruined her life took her husband away, but as Aaron
points out, I did there is a reading that Iowah.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
He probably yeah, he probably does.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
He has sold me. But but also I do think
they're being vague for like maybe maybe Eugene went crazy and.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Put someone in das he was there will definitely be
a flashback because we believe he's.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Iconic. Came back to Joey pants.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I love him so much.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, he has lived my dream sitting in the hot
top with Gina and Tilly on the set of Bounds,
so joy Pans.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I love you. I can't wait to see what a movie.
I can't wait him come back.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
But anyway, so she's like, Sabilla's like, okay, well I
just there. It is like I just opened up to you,
now you do it? What's going on with you? What
are you so afraid of? What are you hiding? What
are you so ashamed of? And we all know what
it is. It's that he committed a fucking brutal mask
in order to save Ellie's life, and now he's gotta
(16:22):
be wondering was it actually worth it? Because she fucking
hates me, And by the way, I think she hates
him because I think she suspects that.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
I think she knows.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I think she knows. She knows he's lying of the.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Situation, and we will talk about this the way they've
had to restructure the show.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
She knows he's lying.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I think that word will have gotten to Jackson about
what like about the way it went down, even if
people don't really know.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
I think that's part of the reason why I think
Tommy knows.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I think that's part of the reason why he doesn't
want Ellie to tell people that she's immune, because that
brings up questions and connects them to location. Yea, And
I think that Ellie knows, and I think she's really
really mad and angry because he promised and she doesn't
want to have the conversation yet because it changes that.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Our whole life. Yeah, it changes everything.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
But she knows, and she's mad because we get a
lot of hints throughout this that she is not interested.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
In Joel's kind of protection, which we know is violence.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So later on Ellie is in the house that she
has all to herself and she's listening to Nirvana and
she's cleaning her guns. Dina comes over because it's time
for patrol, and they go out and Jesse, who is
Dina's we're about to find out X, is talking to
the group and giving them their orders, reminding them you
(18:03):
got to check in at the write your name in
the log book at all the checkpoints. Don't run off.
If you see like one or two infected, clean them up,
but don't go chasing them into the fucking woods. Stick
to the la, stay on your roots, listen to your captains. Okay.
And Ellie is so blase about it that it was
honestly infuriating. Yeah, at points to watch because I'm just
(18:26):
like Ellie, it's fine for you, like you're immune, but
like you're gonna get somebody killed it.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, no one else is immune. Also, I feel like
this is this is one of the and we'll talk
about this too, about how changing the kind of timeline
of what happens in the game understandably to fit the show.
It does bring up questions like this because you think, like, well,
after what happened with Ellie and how she found out
(18:52):
she was immune and losing somebody that she loved, you
would think she would be a little bit more thoughtful
about this. I'm not one hundred percent or that I
believe this version of Ellie, but also I think that
the other thing is I think that part of Ellie's
reckless nurse a being a teenager.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
But I also think it's natural for her.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I do think that part of it is a fuck
you to Joel. I think she's like, you did so,
you did something so terrible, and guess what, I don't
value my life at all, Like I'm gonna rise you
and just throw it around and throw it away because
what you did was so awful.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I think that that's exactly right. Dina and Ellie as
they're riding off on patrol, they're talking about the fact
that the New Year's Dance New Year's Eve, so there's
a big dance that night. Who is Ellie taking. Ellie's
has a crush, but she's not going to say who
it is Dina. Dina's like, well, you can go with
(19:48):
you can go with me because Jesse and I broke up.
What about that the patrol finds a blood trail, it's
a the Ellie just immediately gallops after it without.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Say everyone's like stop.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Elly's like, no, I'm gonna go see what it is.
It was a bear that has been mauled by several infected.
There's a bunch of dead infected around a dead bear.
Dina tells Ellie at dad joke, which is of course
the way to her heart, and then the rest of
the patrol shows up. Ellie immediately disobeys orders to not
(20:23):
go into the buildings that are right here. She's like, well,
I'm going to go in and just see what's going on, Like,
you know, what if they're shooting in there, one of.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Those I will say.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I do think this is like, actually really funny because
this is about a translation issue, because if you were
in the game, you'd just be like, yeah, I'm fucking
going in there, like if you were controlling Kelly R.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
There was a gamer, there's a gamers, go.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Ahead, Kelly infected. So I kind of love the elliot
is the thing the way that we would play.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
That's so that's such a great So they go in,
Ellie and Dina go in, and they hear, you know,
the sounds of the infected. Ellie can't wait to take
care of business. She you know, moments later is on
the back of this infected and fucking stabbing it in
the neck, just like in the game, and it falls
and everything seems chill, and Dina's like, wow, that was
(21:18):
so cool. And next thing you know, Ellie is falling
through the rotten floor of the store. She's okay. She
starts wandering around looking for a way out, flipping through
you know, the place like a time capsule. It's like
a People magazine with a Jennifer Aniston cover. And then
all of a sudden, she realized she's not alone. There's
something in there crawling around, stalking her. Maybe it's almost
(21:40):
making human sense.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
It stops me.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
It sounds like maybe an injured human or something. So
I think that it's almost calling Ellie Ova. She wants
to see what it is.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It's clearly smarter in the way that it's acting because
it's aware of the threat post by Ellie and doesn't
want to be clearly seen by her stalking around. It's
a I think, clearly one of the stalkers.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I think it is definitely changes. They kind of reimagined it.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, so Ellie yells at it. When she gets a
good look at it, she yells at it. It runs
and hides, and that Ellie's very confused. Now Ellie goes
around looking for it again and it ambush ambushes Ellie.
It bites her on the stomach, and Ellie manages to
shoot it, and we get a good look of its
and its its eyes are very human ish, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
That human, but it still has the it's got the
human face. It looks almost like a child, but it
has the very noticeable kind of corter set fungal yes,
spores coming out of its head, which I think is
how we know it is a stalker, as well as
the weird croaking which I remember so distinctly from the game.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
So Ellie is bit on the belly and clearly she
needs to hide it before Dina or anybody else sees it.
And you know what, So I think if you haven't
played the game, and clearly there's gonna be a lot
of people who are watching the show who have not
played the.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Game, especially who who just haven't played part two.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, and I think that you're I think that you
would wonder naturally if this new kind of zombie, this
kind of slower infection that doesn't that seems in which
the infected seems to retain some of their human higher functions.
I think you're meant to wonder if this doesn't pose
a threat to Ellie.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And so yeah, yeah, you're meant to wonder like and
also as well as I would say that, something I
thought was really interesting was, you know, you see the
blood kind of bleeding out of it. It doesn't have
the immediate kind of Wolverine esque keeling that maybe hope
to see if Ellie is immune. So I definitely think
if you haven't played the game, that is a completely
(23:49):
fair thing to think, and it's definitely what the show
wants us to worry about.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
It's very classic.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Zombie movie, you know, Dawn of the Dead, like high
your Bite, and they're putting other people at risk, which
is probably actually what happened to Joey Pant's aka Eugene
and what and Joel found out and had to kill him.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
So luckily, yeah, luckily Dina doesn't see.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So Ellie and Dina have to do their debrief with
the Council, the full Council.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Which, by the way, sorry, I just need to say
something about Jackson Wyoming here.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
I love the idea of the council.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I am look, everyone knows I'm a socialist, I do
have those vibes. But also I also recently was voted
as member of the neighborhood council in sam Pedrocchial Council,
So thank you, But can I just say something, what
on earth why did they spend this time like building
a council room?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Like why did it have?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Like I get it that they're trying to make like
society come back, but what parts of society are you replicating?
How many men had to find the wood and build
this kind of town hall because it looks like a
ceremonial room, Like I feel like they're not putting the right.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Energy into what they are building.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Listen, I do think that one of the things that's
frustrating me about this episode is you're making socialism look bad, guys.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
To make a socialism look is like not.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I just feel like we could tighten it up.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I think they can. You know what, I think they
got to be better about. If I'm in Jackson, Wyoming.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
No no husband than wives on the council, guys, they're
having these they're having these arguments, which I love because
it's so I know.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Early on when it's this very small community, I get,
but as soon as now, yeah, at the size it is, now,
let's have one of you, yeah, because you can have both.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
They have this great interaction where Ellie tells Tommy like, oh,
so you and Joe wouldn't have gone in, and he's
like that's different, and Maria's like, how's it fucking different?
Great point because she knows what he means. But if
he was, if that wasn't a husband and wife situation,
maybe we could deal with this in a bit more
of a cious way.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Guys, and and on another level, Council of Jackson, Wyoming,
stop sending surly teens who don't plan to the very
like important plans and orders and protocols because people's lives
are at stake in the lives of everybody in the community.
(26:21):
Stop putting them on patrol duty.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Why isn't there essentially like a college system that is
just Joel teaching people trades. All the teenagers should just
be learning, like how to build a house?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yes, how to the breakers?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Like Diana's the only smart person. Dinas like, could you
teach me? It's like, oh, fucking thank you, like an
actual sensible person. But yeah, like, let's stop sending teenagers
out to the end of the world, like especially something
I'm interested in that I hope we get to know
more about. But the choice to open up to refugees,
which again morally ethically I agree, but I find it
(27:00):
very interesting because in the first season, if we're just
going by what we've seen in the TV show, they
make it quite clear that they had basically created something
to scare people away. You never go over the river,
you never go there, and they were keeping it secret.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
So I want I guess.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
It's somethings has changed, something's changed that refugees know to
come to Jackson, Like is it something like The Walking
Dead where we would often see people put calls out
for these kind of safe havens, or is it just
the nature of being there for five years that people
just start to hear about it. I want to know
more about that because it's very different than the way
we saw it, which was essentially they pretended to be raiders.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
They made it seem.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Like it was overrun with zombies and hope that no
one would ever find them.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, there's also the issue and then I don't want
to get into this, but like Amo does go bad
over to like where's all the that's the other thing,
shouldn't we not be shooting? Shouldn't we be shooting a
lot less?
Speaker 3 (27:54):
They should be shooting coming from because.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I'll tell you this. Actually, so, I had an interesting
experien sperience where I had to research whether or not
Ammo for an article I was writing, did ever really
go bad?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It?
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Does it? It would take a very long time and
Jenny could still use it?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Who was making it? That's the question, is like, you
guys are out here just you're just practicing sniping? Like
do you don't have no Ammo for practicing sniping? Also,
where's your AMMO maker? I will say one thing, and
I think it's the nature of and everyone knows. I'm
not a huge lover of the Walking Dead TV program.
It was not particularly for me in structure, but it
had fantastic cast, incredible performances.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
But one thing I do love about that world.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
And it's something that Tillie Walden has continued in Clementine,
something we've seen in the video games, something we've seen.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
In the spin offs.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
They are really good at showing how different people with
different skills could become a part of the post apocalyptic world.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I need to know where the AMMO guy is, who's
the guy who's whose.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Dad made guns, and now he's there because everybody has
a gun and he has two guns.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
She is not shy about letting it all. She's letting
it off all the time. She does not seem to
be a problem. Yeah, anyway, so the council knows that
Dina's They're like, Dina's lying. She didn't. Fucking Ellie spirited
his whole thing.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Dina went along, we believe, But we believe Ellie and
Dina's just go back like love.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
That, and they are. The council is duly worried about
this potential new kind of infected, and also worried about
the fact that infected seemed to be coming into the
valley and increasing numbers.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
But an attacking animals now, because we saw them attack
that giant bed.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
They took it down.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
But listen, guys, it's New Year's Eve, so let's party.
While Joel goes to see Ellie, she doesn't want to
talk to him. Joel is like, oh, your acoustic guitar,
I'm going to take it to restring it. It's got
the firefly on the top, and she goes to He
goes to take it away and.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
There's a moment.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
I love this moment where you can tell that Ellie
in that second, she understands that that is like Joel's
love language, like he can't say sorry, but.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
You will just fix something for you.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And for a moment, her fury kind of breaks through
and you think she's gonna call after him, but he's
already gone.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
So we go to the New Year's dance New Year's
Eve twenty twenty nine. Folks are dancing. The music is
very like soft bluegrass, modern bluegrass type of thing. Ellie
is looking sad because Dina was dancing with Jesse on
the floor.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
And also, just like numerous other guys, she's just going,
She's going, everybody's already really drunk.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Dina sees Ellie and leads her out onto the dance
floor and she's like, all these guys should be scared
of you, which I don't understand. No no, no.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
No no no.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
So this is what she said. So the conversation that happens,
this is a very teenage girl crush type situation. Conversation
is Ellie says every guy in here is looking at
you to Dina and they're dancing together. They're dancing very close,
and Dina says, well, actually, what if they're looking at you,
(31:18):
maybe they're jealous of you?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And Ellie's like, well, I'm not a threat, and.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Dina's well, also, Dina's just seen Ellie like fucking kill
multiple zombies.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
So I think she's like, well, they should all be
terrified of you.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Not.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I think she means not just as a romantic threat,
which we're about to see is about to happen, but
also just because actually Ellie is kind of crazy. I
think that Dina sees a side of Ellie that she understands.
And then they start making out, and I love this.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
For Thatt making out. A guy is like, hey, it's
a family event, there's kids here, can you fucking dial
it down?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
But what he really means is you're gay, so stop.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
You're gay, so stop. And then he calls them die
just to make sure that everybody gets it.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah, he's like fucking dykes.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
So Joel comes out like batman. I wasn't even know
where he was in the fucking room.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
It was like he had he was like somebody said something, something,
somebody said something.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
He drops in from the vent not boob Seth goes
down and the room like screeches to a hall. Everybody's like,
oh my god, Maria gets seth out of there. Ellie
is like shocked, and then she's like, I don't need
your help to Joel.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And I think that's when we really know, Like she's saying, like,
this is what your help always looks like.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
It's like it's always violence.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
But the funny thing is, as much as she says
that she is Joel's spiritual you guys images she was
literally and and Tommy says that to her, she's like,
you and Joel are the same fucking person. Like, and
she has that moment where when the guy calls him Dykes,
she's like, what the fuck did you say?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
And she goes up to him.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
And if Joel hadn't like fucking knocked him out, that
would have well, Ellie would have been, you know, given
him the old real naked chokehold or whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Like Gail is watching this like, oh my god, here's
my next session with Joel. This is gonna be this.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
She's deity like picking up on these things that we
are picking up about Ellie and Joel of like, oh,
so your dad stuck up for you against a homophobe.
Why wouldn't you need that kind of help?
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Like hmm, Ellie walks home, she sees Joel playing his
guitar on the porch and the cold, and she just
walks on.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Later that night, as people are celebrating out on the
wall and all around town, we see the thing that
we were getting. We knew this would fucking happen. The
fungi worms are crawling out of that cracked clay pipe.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Of course, it literally looks so much like corny steps guys,
Like I was like, why is DNA just touching it?
Like why are you the dangerous in this world? Burnet
Bune but it with fire.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
It's just everybody, get it together to the Council of Jackson, Wyoming.
Tighten your ship up, Tighten it up, because it's a
mess over here. Meanwhile, Abby and Owen arrive in the
mountains and they can see the lights of Jackson ahead
of them. So a big showdown coming for episode two.
(34:47):
Let's talk about this episode, Rosie.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Your thoughts, very beautifully made episode.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I agree. I just I'm feeling the weight of dread
on me at every moment, Like it is very just
painful to watch because I think that Pedro Pascal was
a once in a lifetime casting for Joel, and the
pain and anger and regret and guilt that he is
(35:16):
able to put across.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
In every episode is just so powerful.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
And I think because we have played the game and
it just heart breaks my heart to see him and
Ellie in this situation. And I know that's why they
have kind of dialed back that relationship, because as the
show moves on, this will make what happens even more heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
But yeah, I mean it's a I thought it was
a great episode.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I also love a show, a fictional show that makes
me want to yell at the show with my friends,
Like yes, I love that.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
That's a sign of a good show.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
That's a sign of a good show as you're like,
what the fuck, like why are you doing this now?
But I did cheer when Joel knocked out the homophobe.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
I do wonder if I do I think people. I
think there's gonna be some folks who are a little
frustrated at the fact that, you know, like there's like
a Joel and Ellie's relationship is like this after everything
that happened, and the fact that Ellie's like, you know,
(36:21):
lashing out and Joel seems unable to like reach her.
I think people are going to be slightly frustrated, but
I thought it was a really great episode. And yeah,
to your point, like yelling at the I was doing
so much of like what are you doing? We were
Carmen's who producer. Carmen was like before the episode was like,
we should do a thing where we figure out like
(36:41):
what everybody's role in Jackson Lyne Wing Camp would be.
And I was like, my role would be like just
going over to people and be like that's wrong, you're
doing that wrong.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah, yes, that's the code enforce that.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
He's like, I'm not even the code enforcer. I'm just
the guy on lots of edibles who's has no official
role with the community. But it's like, why are you
doing that way your feud.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
You're just like sitting in your house reading books, taking
edible coming out and you're like, guys, I'm.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
In my five bedroom, a beautiful craftsman home by myself.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Never afforded it before.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
There' zombie a pockets right now, I've.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Got all to myself. New refugees coming in. Where are
we gonna put them? I have no idea, not in
my house. I don't know. I get clothes to build
some houses from scratch because I got I got my
record collection in one room, you know, oh, my gun's room.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah. If you know, if I'm gonna have a baby
or someone else I knows have a baby, then maybe
I'll put them in that room.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I would. Realistically, I had always.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Thought, like what would my role be, because that's the
kind of thing you think when you're in these when
you like this kind of stuff and you love them. Honestly,
I never really knew because I was like, I don't know,
Like there's a lot of people who can like cook
a meal, but now now I can crochet. I know
I would just be made mad socks and blinks.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
You think you'd make it? My thing is like I
wouldn't make it.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I would. I would never have made it to Jackson, Wyoming.
I'm getting killed. Like the first day. The first day,
I can't even drive, Like where are you? I'm just
staying in my house.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
If without it all depends is like do I lose
my glasses early in the chaos.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Oh my, if I lose my glass, style, we are
we are gone. It's that see me till I.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Am finished and then I have asthma, so I'd need
to scavenge some asthma hailers. So if I lose my
glasses early in the zombie pockleps.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Forget it, folks, dude, this is this is true as
as superb and put it. Every city dwelling person with
bad eyesight is done. And you know what, it's true
over it's and you know what, maybe we would learn
something from the clickers because those motherfuckers blind, so who knows,
Like maybe it would help us, but you know what
I would I always I've always been like a plan
(39:00):
or like where's the closest place I could hide?
Speaker 3 (39:05):
That's generally always. When I used to work at.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
A bar, we had we had a bar, and the
whole front of the building. It was a concrete building.
You could only get in the front, and the whole
front of the building had these great shutters. So we
always used to be like, well, we'll just go to
the bar and we'll just go on the roof of
the bar.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
But behind that, for sure, me, definitely i'd be a hider.
I'd be a hider.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
But also, like you know, my biggest issue I hate
to get like a splinter. So I'm really gonna be
out here like trying to cover up my like nail
my windows with some wood, and I'm gonna get a
splinter and just have like an autistic breakdown and.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Just you're never gonna see me. The the zombies are eating
my feet, Like.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
That's a great one, because like there's my allergies are
kicking off right now. And I keep rubbing my eye
even though I shoult. I'm like, I got yeah, that's what.
I keep running my eye and I keep rubbing it
at night. And if I was in the post apocalyptic,
post infected world where I'm like hiding and basements and
crawling through crawl spaces and on these like a little
(40:03):
different like Heidi holes, I'd be would not be able
to stop rubbing my.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Eye or your eyes would be.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Lost my eye and I'd be dead and I wouldn't
get a million percent get infected by corty SIPs somehow.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I mean, also, you know what, I love bread, So
I would have been dead already because I would have
already eaten the flower, like I would have been there.
They're like, oh guys, there might be a recall on
some bread. I'm like sorry, I'm already eating it, like
and then I'm dead, dead by quarter steps. So I
don't think either of us would have made it to Jackson,
But who knows. Maybe we'd meet like a hunky dad
like Joel and he'd help you.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
That would be great. Neither boo.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
He's also out. He also has glasses.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Basically all of us have done comments only one surviving,
Me and Christina.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Once we both have like about the same I prescription,
so we did. We took off our glasses and we
stood at opposite ends of the room, and we were like, okay,
let's keep taking a step towards each other until we
can see and clearly make out each other's faces. And
it was so pathetic, like how close we had to get,
(41:11):
like it was literally like within arm's reach to be like, okay,
I recognize.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Truly, that's something also like my I think the only
way I would survive is like if I think the
likelihood of me surviving would be way higher if I
was like if I had not done a good job
at getting my medication so I didn't have like my
lexapro and all the other things, keep my stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
If I stocked up, I could I could run.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
If I didn't have it, and I became like really
deranged and like was not on any medication and was
just hyped up all the time.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Maybe there's a version where I could survive.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
I think normal, comfortable, like sensible Rosie that I am
now I would not survive, but deranged teen Rosie. Oh maybe.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Shit it if I have to like jump on an
infected's back and stab it to death, forget it. That
it's never happening.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I gotta make friends with someone like Tommy, who's gonna
teach me how.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
To snipe as close as.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
I'm gay, I need as well, and I need to
know the bullet guy. Whoever the bullet guy.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Is the bullet guy who's come on, guys, send me
a message. We got to start getting their post apocalyptic together. Okay,
Aaron says, can we talk about Isabella.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
She's so great.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I love her plays Dina obviously star of Madam Webb
famous role and The Last City of Gord, which, by
the way, is actually hilarious banging movie.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
You should actually.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Watch it. She's so good.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
I love how warm she is. I also love she
is and for Joel because I.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Like the moment when Joel says to Gail like she
acts like she's my daughter. It's like, no, she acts
like what you wish your daughter would act like. You know,
actually know what your daughter would act like, because she
is dead and that traumatized you. And now you have
this surrogate daughter who doesn't behave in any of the
ways that you wish a daughter would act. And I
(43:12):
think Dina is so brilliant and Isabella is so brilliant
in the role because you kind of just immediately feel like, yeah,
I understand her. She's in this world, this is her
place within it, and she has gone to live, as
far as we know, a rather sheltered life in Jackson,
Wyoming because she has so much confidence.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
In her safety there.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
And you know, she's running around and drinking and dancing
and living it up, and for some reason, she's feeling
so secure that she even dumps Jesse, who is the
hot young brother from Beef. So I'm like, babe, you're
(43:53):
feeling you're feeling pretty confident, but she obviously feeling she's
having those bisexual feelings, and I support it.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Gives me a real sense of like dread to that
of what they're about to go through. Yeah, and you're
absolutely right to point out that it certainly seems like
Dina has not had either. She is pretty unaffected by Dale, yeah,
(44:24):
by the trauma of what's occurred these last ten fifteen years,
or she's been so effectively sheltered by the worst parts
of it that she still has this wonderful, like sunny
like optimism, Like.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
She doesn't she'll get drunk, she'll die, Like she has
an ease to her that Ellie does not have.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
And you know, this is a show about revenge, and
it's the revenge she's about to get swept up in it.
And I think it's really sad. Again. I can't stop
thinking about how Dale Gail excuse me, really is she
exists to be the answer to how you stop all
(45:08):
of this. Yeah, it's really And you understand why it's
so hard, like to sit there with the person who
killed your husband and be like, it wasn't your fault.
I'm really angry about it. Yeah, I understand that it
was not your fault. You couldn't do anything, but I
need to express that I'm like furious and I'm heartbroken.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah. And also it reminds me a lot of you know,
we recently did our dead evil episode one O eight
recap and talk, And there's a moment in that where
my favorite characters everyone knows Ben Poindex the mass murderer,
Benjamin Poindex the AKA boys, you know, love that guy.
(45:49):
But he says to Matt, he says, you know, in
another world, wouldn't you be defending me? Because isn't that
what good men do? They defend their worst enemies, you know.
And I think that Gail is essentially that representation for
the Last of Us, where yeah, you have to fucking
swallow it. You have to say, hey, we live in
a fucking zombie apocalypse and people are gonna die. And
(46:13):
I will say, shall we do like a two minute
put your ear muffs on if you haven't played, Yeah,
let's doe the station. Okay, put yours on. If you
have a blank game and you want to stay spoiler free.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, just just turn to the episode.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Just turn the episode. Now.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
We love you, bye, thank you for listening. Thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you. Here we go, we're
about to start it now. Okay, let's start it now.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I think something that the inevitable death.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
Of Joel that you know, I think episode.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
I think episode two it has to happen because now
we've seen Abby's gang, unless they decide to do a
bottle episode about Abby and her journey there, which I
could see them potentially doing.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I could see them doing it.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Basically, if the show had followed the game, they would
have killed him in episode one, and I think if
they'd have cast anyone other than Pedro Pascal, they would
have killed them in APIs. He is so fantastic that
you want to have him around as long as you can.
But I do think that having this extra time does
(47:15):
lessen some of the emotional propulsion that you get from
the horrific events and the way that they chose to
represent Joel's massacre, which I thought was so fantastically done
and so so correct. That's the only way to represent it.
But when this episode begins, you see Abby and the
(47:35):
gang and they're burying the bodies and there's maybe like,
I know, eight bodies or something, and then you kind
of spend time in why. I mean, you see all
these different people coming and you kind of start thinking, well,
kind of like you said about the way Gail responds
to Joel killing Eugene is like, well, actually a lot
of people do just die in this world and we
don't know if the cure would have worked, and it starts,
I think, to lessen a little bit of the empathy
(48:00):
and understanding that you would have with Abby, and obviously
we're not in her shoes and the way we are
in the game, but like, I just think that suddenly
I was like, wait a minute, everyone kills people in
this and kind of like maybe Joel, you know, maybe
I suddenly don't think Joel was the most wrong in
the world for doing it. And I never really had
(48:20):
that feeling when I played the game, even though there
was a massive gap between them. I immediately was like,
I understand why this is happening.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
What Joel did was horrific.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
But here I feel a bit more. I feel like
it has become after this episode, and maybe that's just
their great storytelling, because I do love Joel in this show,
but I feel like it's become a little bit less
urgent and a little bit less clean cut than it
felt at the end of the last series.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
I don't disagree with the tape, but I think I'm
going to give it until episode two to see because
I agree with you. I do think that we have
to I think that it would make sense to see
a lot of Abby's backstory before they kill Joel. Yes,
just so she doesn't immediately become the pure antagonist because
(49:09):
she's she's not. She's acting according to the same urges
and desire for justice that Ellie is about to be
working under her, working on her.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yes, I think if they if they do the next
episode and they show what Joel did from Abby's perspective
when she was younger, when she saw her father being killed,
I think that could put us in a good position
to understand everything that's about to come next.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I completely agree, do they I wonder how, uh you know?
How slow they do kill Joel? Do you think I
imagine it? It can't be worse than it is in
the game, because the game is pretty fucking bad.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
It can't be worse than it is in the game.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
And I also think, do they learn from a show
like The Walking Dead where after Joel in the chat
was like famous last words, Craig's to hurt us is about.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
To go down? But also I would say, do they
learn from.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
A show like The Walking Dead where after Glenn was
killed and the kind of vicious brutality that they seem
to lavish in that moment and the horror that they
put on him and the way that Megan killed.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Him spoiler alert for like a ten year old chair
and a fifteen year old comic.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
But do they learn that maybe people don't want to
see that and then they're not gonna tune in after
that happens, or do they go super gruesome and they
hope that people's love for Joel and Vengeance will want
to see, you know, Ellie go on this quest. And
they have been quite interesting in this press tour, the
creators saying, well, they might not be a last of
(50:53):
us season three, So I'm also interested to see how
much of the game we cover in this Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
I My other big question is how much how big
are the changes? I think clearly we've seen already that
the changes, while somewhat small, have been I think significant.
They feel the way they've widened the world, whether it's
this new kind of infected or you know, the bringing
(51:21):
Abby and her crew into the story in a different way.
And so I wonder if we end up in the
same place.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
I know That's what I was wondering too, is like,
are they gonna, Yeah, what are the changes that we're
gonna see and Yeah, I'm very interested to see where
they go next because this is gonna be, I think,
one of the most controversial and like shocking moments in TV.
(51:50):
If you don't know what's coming.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
I completely agree. I'll be super Bizerve Boots selling us
that season three I confirmed yesterday.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
Will be wrong. There will be a season three, thanks
Craig Mazon tell us.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
There will be other There will be other episodes of
X ray Vision in the next few episodes. We're breaking
down the season finale of Daredevil Born Again on Thursday,
and then next week we begin our journey with and
Or season two. Wednesday, we'll have our recaps of the
first three episodes of and Or season two, and then
Friday we'll do a deep dive with a full Jedi
Council roundtable discussion about the show. Plaus We're gonna break
(52:24):
down a little bit more backstory on the thunder Bolts
with our book Club episode on Thursday, covering the first
issue of Thunderbolts number one from nineteen ninety seven. That's
it for this episode. Thanks for listening. Bye. X ray
Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion, I'm rosday Night and
(52:45):
is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
Our executive producers are Joe Alminique and Aaron Kolefman.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bai Wag.
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A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
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Speaker 1 (53:01):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin. Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
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Worry.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode contained spoilers for the Last of Us season
two and one, so you better watch that. Be Who
are you listening to this? Hello, my name is Jason
(00:25):
Kincepsio and on Mesday Night, Welcome back to x ray
Vision of the podcast where we dive deep to your favorite shows, movies, comics,
and pop culture. Coming from my our podcast. We're bringing
you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus news.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
In today's episode, we are talking about the already heartbreaking
second season of the Last of Us, with the first
episode available on HBO and Max right now. And who
We're gonna be recapping that first episode. We're gonna be
talking about the issues with Jackson Wyoming.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
We're gonna complaining.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Love me and Jason. We're gonna be out here complaining
from our warm houses, whether it go some of these
telling everyone how they should be doing a bad job.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
We open on the final scene from season one, in
which Joel promises Ellie that his story of their escape
from the Firefly Research facility is true. Now, just as
to remind everybody, Joel's story is there were lots of
(01:33):
immune people that had come through that facility. The fireflies
have given up on a cure and it was actually
raiders that killed everybody, not Joel Elle, And so we
cut directly from there to the same site. It's later
(01:56):
the escape zoo animals are looking on as Abby, whose
dad was one of the firefly surgeons or a doctor,
definitely died in the facility, and other fireflies Nora Owen,
Melmanny and some others whose names we might not have gotten.
(02:16):
They were called at I think as backup on the
radio call, but didn't get there in time to stop
the masacre. And now they have buried everybody. In their
morning they talk about the rumors about who might have
done this. They know his name is Joel, but even
he might be Joe. They're not sure about that. They
think he was there as part of the cure research.
(02:38):
But also like clearly there's a lot of secrecy around
that because they don't have the whole story about whether
there is cure research or whether that's true, and if
that was, they don't.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Know about Ellie at all. Scientists, Yes, they have no
idea about Ali. The scientists died and that's it.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So what's left to do now? And Abby is pretty
clear on this what's left to do now is hunt
down the man responsible, Joel and take him out. And
so Abby's like, Okay, what do we know. He's fifties,
gray hair, six feet They said he was good looking
and that he's got a three day head start on this.
Owen suggests that they have some people in Seattle and
(03:16):
maybe the Seattle Crew could help them. Abby clings to that,
and she makes Owen in a kind of mirror image
of the Joel Ellie promise. She makes Owen promise that
he will help her hunt down Joel and also help
her kill him slowly with as much pain and torture
(03:37):
as possible.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Chill, just chill, like you know, everybody I get it,
but like everybody dies in this like and people get.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I think the vengeance, the cycle of vengeance.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I think that's part of what is so compelling about
this show for me, is in a world without law,
the only real law and reaper hushion is your own
desire to seek vengeance when you've been wrong, and it's
the only thing that could possibly keep people in line
other than them just feeling bad about doing something. And
(04:13):
it's a it's a terrible toxic cycle of violence. We
go to Ellie. She is fighting in a barn, but
it's just sparring. She's training. She's learning the leg locked,
she's learning the triangle choke, she's learning the arm bars.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
She's going into the UFC.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
She's good. She's Their noses bleeding because you got crunched
in the face. And this is all under the tutelage
of Jesse, one of the younger members of the Jackson,
Wyoming community, and he criticizes, criticized. He's like, you're getting
a lot better at the grappling, but you did get
punched in the face early, and try not to get
(04:51):
punched in the face. Later, Ellie and Joel are they're
back with Tommy and the Socialists in Jackson, Wyoming, where
everything's doing pretty great. It's either winter or early spring,
snow still on the ground. There's construction work going on
all over the camp. We're gonna learn that they're trying
to get facilities up and running and trying to expand
the camp because they're getting a lot of refugees in.
(05:13):
And we watch these work work crews dig up some
of the water pipes, the clay pipes from underground, and
when they break up the pipes. There's all these roots,
like tree roots, plant roots growing through it, and I'm
and immediately, immediately, I'm like, why are you so incurious
about this?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Why are you not alarmed? Also, why don't you just
immediately bun them? I think anything that looks like a root,
that shit's.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Getting buned in there. Like, I get it.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
You want to save the pipe, but maybe that pipe
will be fine.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Just bun them.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
This is the problem, I think, one of the many
problems with Jackson White.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
We can't wait to go later.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
The real truth is I love teenagers. I am on
the side of most teenagers this, you know, bah like
Diana is the one who breaks this pie, but she
has a child burn, like have an adult that overseeing.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I think something you bring up a good point, which
is that I think part of what's wrong with Jackson
is we're putting people who are too young into two
important roles without enough structure, and the people, the older,
more experienced people seem utterly and curious about like what
(06:27):
they're doing. Anyway, we will complain a lot about Jackson.
Joel is doing repair work on the breakers for the
electrical system of the of Wyoming. Dina Ellie's best friend
comes in and says, hey, the work. There's the work.
Cruise need guidance out there, like they don't know what
they're doing. I just broke this pipe open with all
(06:49):
these roots, Like what's going on? And she's like, but
what are you doing? He's like, I'm working on the breaker.
She's like, teach me how to do it. It's like,
this is what I'm talking about. You're working on the pipe, right,
Let's go work on the pipe. Like now you're just
gonna switch up and work on the electrician. I get it. Though,
Dina asks why Ellie is mad at Joel, So now
(07:09):
we learn that there's there's some tension between Joel and Ellie.
Joel is like, I don't know, but you know, she's
nineteen and I'm kind of like her father, so maybe
it's natural. He also recognizes that he is quite over protective.
I would say, yeah, carrying out a massacre just good hint,
(07:32):
that's the cat. And we learned that Joel is in therapy,
which is great, and he's twitchy about it. Meanwhile, Ellie
gunnut that she is is out learning how to snipe.
Tommy is teaching as a former military and army snipers.
He's teaching her how to do it. She's already pretty
good longer ranges a little tricky still, but she's learning.
(07:55):
They're shooting it. Infected and we learned that there's not
a lot of them in the valley, but they've been
coming in and Tommy is concerned about it.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
It seems like there's more of them than they were.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, there's more of them, not huge numbers, but but
a concerning amount. Tommy is like, I got to send
out a patrol and figure out what's going on with that.
And Ellie's like great, but Tommy's like, no, but you're
not on patrol duty. You're on gate duty because you're unpredictable.
On patrol, you're reckless, you don't listen to anybody. You
(08:28):
ride off after infected and go chasing them when you're
just supposed to come back and report what you've seen.
And she's like, yeah, well I can do that because
I can't get infected. I'm immune. Isn't it great?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And he's like, shutting the fuck off.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
It's stop saying.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That, Yeah, what are you crazy? Like, we can't talk
about that because various reasons. Ellie and again Jackson leadership Ellie,
as she is so good at doing, just folds up
everybody who gets in her way and talks her way
back on patrol.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Off like screaming into the mountains like I'm at he
shut the fuck.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Up, Chill is serious, She's not. People are getting killed anyway.
Tommy's like, but listen, if you go back on patrol,
you have to listen to your to the captain's orders.
And she clearly won't. We get that right, there's no
way that she's gonna do that. We watch a wagon
(09:30):
of refugees arrive through the gate and Maria, Tommy's wife,
is with Joel and Joel's like, uh, comptroller or something
off whatever his role gap. He's in there like looking
at the plans for construction and all this different stuff.
(09:51):
And Maria's like, Joel, you gotta like drive your crews harder.
We gotta get on we gotta get on our horse
with this construction. We've got peace coming in. We don't
have enough facilities. And Joel's like, well, I don't have
the manpower, Like I just can't.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Who do you?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
We don't have the people to be constructing at this rate,
Like it's just hard. And he's like why don't we
stop letting folks in for a little while? And Maria,
of course disagrees, and Joel says, like, and then and
it's a And I think it's a fascinating discussion. Joel says, Listen,
it's like a lifeboat if they come in at such
(10:27):
a rate that they swamp our lifeboat, Like what what
good are we to anybody? Shouldn't we take care of
our own, make sure we've got the facilities before we
just like let people in. I think that it's a
I think it's a conversation I think worth having. And
why can't they just like as we were saying before
the mics, like throw up tents, put some gap. What
about some like stuff outside the walls, some like shacks
(10:51):
or something outside the walls, and you can let them
in when there's danger.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
How about two people don't need a whole craftsman house,
Like if you live in a socialist call me and
why don't just like why is.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
In her own house? Why is anybody living in their
own exactly?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Like I feel like I get.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
It, guys, but like, if you.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Really want to help, nimbism is already taking.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I would like my own house.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
But I do like, why is Elly living by herself.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
In a garage? Like she doesn't need that, guys, like
she could just let a family in there.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
But I do like when it's kind of the.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Ultimate I think conversation around these kind of things. Because
Joel makes like a really good point, but as Maria
points out to him, she's also like, well, you were
a refugee once, so like it's that trustant cycle of like,
so it's okay for you to come in and take
our resources or whatever, but these other people can't. Like Yeah,
(11:54):
So it's a very interesting conversation. But I actually found
when Tommy returned, I felt that to be the most
interesting thing. When he comes back and he just straight
up lies about hunting with Ellie.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
That was shocking. I was surprised at that. Yeah, so
he just was like, where are you been. He's like, oh,
just out, you know, sniping, sniping, doing that, that whole thing.
Joel goes to see his therapist Gail new character for
season two, Catherine, Wonderful Catherine. He pays for his session
(12:29):
with Weed that apparently is not up to Gail's standard.
She's just like this weed is not good enough. Sweet
is bad. But I'll take it. Uh, and then he
then dives into his issues with Ellie. She won't talk
to him, she's mean to him, she's distant. Yeah, yeah,
Gail is like and he's like, you know, meanwhile, like
her best friend Dina is like so nice, totive, and
(12:50):
she wants to know, like what I'm up to and
what things going on? What's up with that? And Gail's
like basically yawning. She's like, your problems are so fucking
this is so boring.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
She's waste of time. Why are you doing this?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
You're her dad, she's your nineteen year old daughter. That's
all the explanation you need for why it's going like this,
So why don't you tell me, like what's really going on?
Because something's really going on. I can tell that you
have something inside that you're keeping in you're lying about it,
and why won't you go to that place? And Joel
won't talk about it. So then she's like, well, let
me give you, let me show you how it's done.
(13:24):
And then she opens up very vulnerable because she's also
effort and this is the thank you very much. The
substances are a little we got it, I get it.
It's very traumatic here, everybody's traumatized. I would be high, all.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
The fun, all the time, no question.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Question, it would be raped.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Why jump to be therapist and she's the only therapist, Definitely.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Why they've been that for five years?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Therapist has been that because please train somebody, because, as
you're about to find out, she should not be Joel's therapy.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
She should not be. She then opens up about her
anger and fury and sadness and heartbreak about the fact
that Joel murdered her husband Eugene. Now apparently she she
fully acknowledges that that Joel had no choice. It was
like a self defense killer be killed situation in which
(14:28):
Joel at least from a legal standpoint or like a
moral standpoint in the you know, in the contents and wyoming.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So he obviously didn't just kill him for no reason, right.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So but still she's furious, She she's heartbroken. And you
know what this made me think about is like this
Gale is that's how hard it is to break the cycle.
You have to be that, yes, exactly how hard it
is that you want to stop the killing, you want
to stop the vengeance, you want to stop like the bloodlust,
(15:04):
the anger. Then you have to be that person and
that courage.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Gail is willing to sit down with the man who
ruined her life took her husband away, but as Aaron
points out, I did there is a reading that Iowah.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
He probably yeah, he probably does.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
He has sold me. But but also I do think
they're being vague for like maybe maybe Eugene went crazy and.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Put someone in das he was there will definitely be
a flashback because we believe he's.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Iconic. Came back to Joey pants.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I love him so much.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, he has lived my dream sitting in the hot
top with Gina and Tilly on the set of Bounds,
so joy Pans.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I love you. I can't wait to see what a movie.
I can't wait him come back.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
But anyway, so she's like, Sabilla's like, okay, well I
just there. It is like I just opened up to you,
now you do it? What's going on with you? What
are you so afraid of? What are you hiding? What
are you so ashamed of? And we all know what
it is. It's that he committed a fucking brutal mask
in order to save Ellie's life, and now he's gotta
(16:22):
be wondering was it actually worth it? Because she fucking
hates me, And by the way, I think she hates
him because I think she suspects that.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
I think she knows.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I think she knows. She knows he's lying of the.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Situation, and we will talk about this the way they've
had to restructure the show.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
She knows he's lying.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I think that word will have gotten to Jackson about
what like about the way it went down, even if
people don't really know.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
I think that's part of the reason why I think
Tommy knows.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I think that's part of the reason why he doesn't
want Ellie to tell people that she's immune, because that
brings up questions and connects them to location. Yea, And
I think that Ellie knows, and I think she's really
really mad and angry because he promised and she doesn't
want to have the conversation yet because it changes that.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Our whole life. Yeah, it changes everything.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
But she knows, and she's mad because we get a
lot of hints throughout this that she is not interested.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
In Joel's kind of protection, which we know is violence.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So later on Ellie is in the house that she
has all to herself and she's listening to Nirvana and
she's cleaning her guns. Dina comes over because it's time
for patrol, and they go out and Jesse, who is
Dina's we're about to find out X, is talking to
the group and giving them their orders, reminding them you
(18:03):
got to check in at the write your name in
the log book at all the checkpoints. Don't run off.
If you see like one or two infected, clean them up,
but don't go chasing them into the fucking woods. Stick
to the la, stay on your roots, listen to your captains. Okay.
And Ellie is so blase about it that it was
honestly infuriating. Yeah, at points to watch because I'm just
(18:26):
like Ellie, it's fine for you, like you're immune, but
like you're gonna get somebody killed it.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, no one else is immune. Also, I feel like
this is this is one of the and we'll talk
about this too, about how changing the kind of timeline
of what happens in the game understandably to fit the show.
It does bring up questions like this because you think, like, well,
after what happened with Ellie and how she found out
(18:52):
she was immune and losing somebody that she loved, you
would think she would be a little bit more thoughtful
about this. I'm not one hundred percent or that I
believe this version of Ellie, but also I think that
the other thing is I think that part of Ellie's
reckless nurse a being a teenager.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
But I also think it's natural for her.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I do think that part of it is a fuck
you to Joel. I think she's like, you did so,
you did something so terrible, and guess what, I don't
value my life at all, Like I'm gonna rise you
and just throw it around and throw it away because
what you did was so awful.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I think that that's exactly right. Dina and Ellie as
they're riding off on patrol, they're talking about the fact
that the New Year's Dance New Year's Eve, so there's
a big dance that night. Who is Ellie taking. Ellie's
has a crush, but she's not going to say who
it is Dina. Dina's like, well, you can go with
(19:48):
you can go with me because Jesse and I broke up.
What about that the patrol finds a blood trail, it's
a the Ellie just immediately gallops after it without.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Say everyone's like stop.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Elly's like, no, I'm gonna go see what it is.
It was a bear that has been mauled by several infected.
There's a bunch of dead infected around a dead bear.
Dina tells Ellie at dad joke, which is of course
the way to her heart, and then the rest of
the patrol shows up. Ellie immediately disobeys orders to not
(20:23):
go into the buildings that are right here. She's like, well,
I'm going to go in and just see what's going on, Like,
you know, what if they're shooting in there, one of.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Those I will say.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I do think this is like, actually really funny because
this is about a translation issue, because if you were
in the game, you'd just be like, yeah, I'm fucking
going in there, like if you were controlling Kelly R.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
There was a gamer, there's a gamers, go.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Ahead, Kelly infected. So I kind of love the elliot
is the thing the way that we would play.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
That's so that's such a great So they go in,
Ellie and Dina go in, and they hear, you know,
the sounds of the infected. Ellie can't wait to take
care of business. She you know, moments later is on
the back of this infected and fucking stabbing it in
the neck, just like in the game, and it falls
and everything seems chill, and Dina's like, wow, that was
(21:18):
so cool. And next thing you know, Ellie is falling
through the rotten floor of the store. She's okay. She
starts wandering around looking for a way out, flipping through
you know, the place like a time capsule. It's like
a People magazine with a Jennifer Aniston cover. And then
all of a sudden, she realized she's not alone. There's
something in there crawling around, stalking her. Maybe it's almost
(21:40):
making human sense.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
It stops me.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
It sounds like maybe an injured human or something. So
I think that it's almost calling Ellie Ova. She wants
to see what it is.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It's clearly smarter in the way that it's acting because
it's aware of the threat post by Ellie and doesn't
want to be clearly seen by her stalking around. It's
a I think, clearly one of the stalkers.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I think it is definitely changes. They kind of reimagined it.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, so Ellie yells at it. When she gets a
good look at it, she yells at it. It runs
and hides, and that Ellie's very confused. Now Ellie goes
around looking for it again and it ambush ambushes Ellie.
It bites her on the stomach, and Ellie manages to
shoot it, and we get a good look of its
and its its eyes are very human ish, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
That human, but it still has the it's got the
human face. It looks almost like a child, but it
has the very noticeable kind of corter set fungal yes,
spores coming out of its head, which I think is
how we know it is a stalker, as well as
the weird croaking which I remember so distinctly from the game.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
So Ellie is bit on the belly and clearly she
needs to hide it before Dina or anybody else sees it.
And you know what, So I think if you haven't
played the game, and clearly there's gonna be a lot
of people who are watching the show who have not
played the.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Game, especially who who just haven't played part two.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, and I think that you're I think that you
would wonder naturally if this new kind of zombie, this
kind of slower infection that doesn't that seems in which
the infected seems to retain some of their human higher functions.
I think you're meant to wonder if this doesn't pose
a threat to Ellie.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And so yeah, yeah, you're meant to wonder like and
also as well as I would say that, something I
thought was really interesting was, you know, you see the
blood kind of bleeding out of it. It doesn't have
the immediate kind of Wolverine esque keeling that maybe hope
to see if Ellie is immune. So I definitely think
if you haven't played the game, that is a completely
(23:49):
fair thing to think, and it's definitely what the show
wants us to worry about.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
It's very classic.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Zombie movie, you know, Dawn of the Dead, like high
your Bite, and they're putting other people at risk, which
is probably actually what happened to Joey Pant's aka Eugene
and what and Joel found out and had to kill him.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
So luckily, yeah, luckily Dina doesn't see.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So Ellie and Dina have to do their debrief with
the Council, the full Council.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Which, by the way, sorry, I just need to say
something about Jackson Wyoming here.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
I love the idea of the council.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I am look, everyone knows I'm a socialist, I do
have those vibes. But also I also recently was voted
as member of the neighborhood council in sam Pedrocchial Council,
So thank you, But can I just say something, what
on earth why did they spend this time like building
a council room?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Like why did it have?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Like I get it that they're trying to make like
society come back, but what parts of society are you replicating?
How many men had to find the wood and build
this kind of town hall because it looks like a
ceremonial room, Like I feel like they're not putting the right.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Energy into what they are building.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Listen, I do think that one of the things that's
frustrating me about this episode is you're making socialism look bad, guys.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
To make a socialism look is like not.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I just feel like we could tighten it up.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I think they can. You know what, I think they
got to be better about. If I'm in Jackson, Wyoming.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
No no husband than wives on the council, guys, they're
having these they're having these arguments, which I love because
it's so I know.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Early on when it's this very small community, I get,
but as soon as now, yeah, at the size it is, now,
let's have one of you, yeah, because you can have both.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
They have this great interaction where Ellie tells Tommy like, oh,
so you and Joe wouldn't have gone in, and he's
like that's different, and Maria's like, how's it fucking different?
Great point because she knows what he means. But if
he was, if that wasn't a husband and wife situation,
maybe we could deal with this in a bit more
of a cious way.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Guys, and and on another level, Council of Jackson, Wyoming,
stop sending surly teens who don't plan to the very
like important plans and orders and protocols because people's lives
are at stake in the lives of everybody in the community.
(26:21):
Stop putting them on patrol duty.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Why isn't there essentially like a college system that is
just Joel teaching people trades. All the teenagers should just
be learning, like how to build a house?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yes, how to the breakers?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Like Diana's the only smart person. Dinas like, could you
teach me? It's like, oh, fucking thank you, like an
actual sensible person. But yeah, like, let's stop sending teenagers
out to the end of the world, like especially something
I'm interested in that I hope we get to know
more about. But the choice to open up to refugees,
which again morally ethically I agree, but I find it
(27:00):
very interesting because in the first season, if we're just
going by what we've seen in the TV show, they
make it quite clear that they had basically created something
to scare people away. You never go over the river,
you never go there, and they were keeping it secret.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
So I want I guess.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
It's somethings has changed, something's changed that refugees know to
come to Jackson, Like is it something like The Walking
Dead where we would often see people put calls out
for these kind of safe havens, or is it just
the nature of being there for five years that people
just start to hear about it. I want to know
more about that because it's very different than the way
we saw it, which was essentially they pretended to be raiders.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
They made it seem.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Like it was overrun with zombies and hope that no
one would ever find them.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, there's also the issue and then I don't want
to get into this, but like Amo does go bad
over to like where's all the that's the other thing,
shouldn't we not be shooting? Shouldn't we be shooting a
lot less?
Speaker 3 (27:54):
They should be shooting coming from because.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I'll tell you this. Actually, so, I had an interesting
experien sperience where I had to research whether or not
Ammo for an article I was writing, did ever really
go bad?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It?
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Does it? It would take a very long time and
Jenny could still use it?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Who was making it? That's the question, is like, you
guys are out here just you're just practicing sniping? Like
do you don't have no Ammo for practicing sniping? Also,
where's your AMMO maker? I will say one thing, and
I think it's the nature of and everyone knows. I'm
not a huge lover of the Walking Dead TV program.
It was not particularly for me in structure, but it
had fantastic cast, incredible performances.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
But one thing I do love about that world.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
And it's something that Tillie Walden has continued in Clementine,
something we've seen in the video games, something we've seen.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
In the spin offs.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
They are really good at showing how different people with
different skills could become a part of the post apocalyptic world.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I need to know where the AMMO guy is, who's
the guy who's whose.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Dad made guns, and now he's there because everybody has
a gun and he has two guns.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
She is not shy about letting it all. She's letting
it off all the time. She does not seem to
be a problem. Yeah, anyway, so the council knows that
Dina's They're like, Dina's lying. She didn't. Fucking Ellie spirited
his whole thing.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Dina went along, we believe, But we believe Ellie and
Dina's just go back like love.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
That, and they are. The council is duly worried about
this potential new kind of infected, and also worried about
the fact that infected seemed to be coming into the
valley and increasing numbers.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
But an attacking animals now, because we saw them attack
that giant bed.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
They took it down.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
But listen, guys, it's New Year's Eve, so let's party.
While Joel goes to see Ellie, she doesn't want to
talk to him. Joel is like, oh, your acoustic guitar,
I'm going to take it to restring it. It's got
the firefly on the top, and she goes to He
goes to take it away and.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
There's a moment.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
I love this moment where you can tell that Ellie
in that second, she understands that that is like Joel's
love language, like he can't say sorry, but.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
You will just fix something for you.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And for a moment, her fury kind of breaks through
and you think she's gonna call after him, but he's
already gone.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
So we go to the New Year's dance New Year's
Eve twenty twenty nine. Folks are dancing. The music is
very like soft bluegrass, modern bluegrass type of thing. Ellie
is looking sad because Dina was dancing with Jesse on
the floor.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
And also, just like numerous other guys, she's just going,
She's going, everybody's already really drunk.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Dina sees Ellie and leads her out onto the dance
floor and she's like, all these guys should be scared
of you, which I don't understand. No no, no.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
No no no.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
So this is what she said. So the conversation that happens,
this is a very teenage girl crush type situation. Conversation
is Ellie says every guy in here is looking at
you to Dina and they're dancing together. They're dancing very close,
and Dina says, well, actually, what if they're looking at you,
(31:18):
maybe they're jealous of you?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And Ellie's like, well, I'm not a threat, and.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Dina's well, also, Dina's just seen Ellie like fucking kill
multiple zombies.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
So I think she's like, well, they should all be
terrified of you.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Not.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I think she means not just as a romantic threat,
which we're about to see is about to happen, but
also just because actually Ellie is kind of crazy. I
think that Dina sees a side of Ellie that she understands.
And then they start making out, and I love this.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
For Thatt making out. A guy is like, hey, it's
a family event, there's kids here, can you fucking dial
it down?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
But what he really means is you're gay, so stop.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
You're gay, so stop. And then he calls them die
just to make sure that everybody gets it.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah, he's like fucking dykes.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
So Joel comes out like batman. I wasn't even know
where he was in the fucking room.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
It was like he had he was like somebody said something, something,
somebody said something.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
He drops in from the vent not boob Seth goes
down and the room like screeches to a hall. Everybody's like,
oh my god, Maria gets seth out of there. Ellie
is like shocked, and then she's like, I don't need
your help to Joel.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And I think that's when we really know, Like she's saying, like,
this is what your help always looks like.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
It's like it's always violence.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
But the funny thing is, as much as she says
that she is Joel's spiritual you guys images she was
literally and and Tommy says that to her, she's like,
you and Joel are the same fucking person. Like, and
she has that moment where when the guy calls him Dykes,
she's like, what the fuck did you say?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
And she goes up to him.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
And if Joel hadn't like fucking knocked him out, that
would have well, Ellie would have been, you know, given
him the old real naked chokehold or whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Like Gail is watching this like, oh my god, here's
my next session with Joel. This is gonna be this.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
She's deity like picking up on these things that we
are picking up about Ellie and Joel of like, oh,
so your dad stuck up for you against a homophobe.
Why wouldn't you need that kind of help?
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Like hmm, Ellie walks home, she sees Joel playing his
guitar on the porch and the cold, and she just
walks on.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Later that night, as people are celebrating out on the
wall and all around town, we see the thing that
we were getting. We knew this would fucking happen. The
fungi worms are crawling out of that cracked clay pipe.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Of course, it literally looks so much like corny steps guys,
Like I was like, why is DNA just touching it?
Like why are you the dangerous in this world? Burnet
Bune but it with fire.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
It's just everybody, get it together to the Council of Jackson, Wyoming.
Tighten your ship up, Tighten it up, because it's a
mess over here. Meanwhile, Abby and Owen arrive in the
mountains and they can see the lights of Jackson ahead
of them. So a big showdown coming for episode two.
(34:47):
Let's talk about this episode, Rosie.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Your thoughts, very beautifully made episode.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I agree. I just I'm feeling the weight of dread
on me at every moment, Like it is very just
painful to watch because I think that Pedro Pascal was
a once in a lifetime casting for Joel, and the
pain and anger and regret and guilt that he is
(35:16):
able to put across.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
In every episode is just so powerful.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
And I think because we have played the game and
it just heart breaks my heart to see him and
Ellie in this situation. And I know that's why they
have kind of dialed back that relationship, because as the
show moves on, this will make what happens even more heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
But yeah, I mean it's a I thought it was
a great episode.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I also love a show, a fictional show that makes
me want to yell at the show with my friends,
Like yes, I love that.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
That's a sign of a good show.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
That's a sign of a good show as you're like,
what the fuck, like why are you doing this now?
But I did cheer when Joel knocked out the homophobe.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
I do wonder if I do I think people. I
think there's gonna be some folks who are a little
frustrated at the fact that, you know, like there's like
a Joel and Ellie's relationship is like this after everything
that happened, and the fact that Ellie's like, you know,
(36:21):
lashing out and Joel seems unable to like reach her.
I think people are going to be slightly frustrated, but
I thought it was a really great episode. And yeah,
to your point, like yelling at the I was doing
so much of like what are you doing? We were
Carmen's who producer. Carmen was like before the episode was like,
we should do a thing where we figure out like
(36:41):
what everybody's role in Jackson Lyne Wing Camp would be.
And I was like, my role would be like just
going over to people and be like that's wrong, you're
doing that wrong.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah, yes, that's the code enforce that.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
He's like, I'm not even the code enforcer. I'm just
the guy on lots of edibles who's has no official
role with the community. But it's like, why are you
doing that way your feud.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
You're just like sitting in your house reading books, taking
edible coming out and you're like, guys, I'm.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
In my five bedroom, a beautiful craftsman home by myself.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Never afforded it before.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
There' zombie a pockets right now, I've.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Got all to myself. New refugees coming in. Where are
we gonna put them? I have no idea, not in
my house. I don't know. I get clothes to build
some houses from scratch because I got I got my
record collection in one room, you know, oh, my gun's room.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah. If you know, if I'm gonna have a baby
or someone else I knows have a baby, then maybe
I'll put them in that room.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I would. Realistically, I had always.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Thought, like what would my role be, because that's the
kind of thing you think when you're in these when
you like this kind of stuff and you love them. Honestly,
I never really knew because I was like, I don't know,
Like there's a lot of people who can like cook
a meal, but now now I can crochet. I know
I would just be made mad socks and blinks.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
You think you'd make it? My thing is like I
wouldn't make it.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I would. I would never have made it to Jackson, Wyoming.
I'm getting killed. Like the first day. The first day,
I can't even drive, Like where are you? I'm just
staying in my house.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
If without it all depends is like do I lose
my glasses early in the chaos.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Oh my, if I lose my glass, style, we are
we are gone. It's that see me till I.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Am finished and then I have asthma, so I'd need
to scavenge some asthma hailers. So if I lose my
glasses early in the zombie pockleps.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Forget it, folks, dude, this is this is true as
as superb and put it. Every city dwelling person with
bad eyesight is done. And you know what, it's true
over it's and you know what, maybe we would learn
something from the clickers because those motherfuckers blind, so who knows,
Like maybe it would help us, but you know what
I would I always I've always been like a plan
(39:00):
or like where's the closest place I could hide?
Speaker 3 (39:05):
That's generally always. When I used to work at.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
A bar, we had we had a bar, and the
whole front of the building. It was a concrete building.
You could only get in the front, and the whole
front of the building had these great shutters. So we
always used to be like, well, we'll just go to
the bar and we'll just go on the roof of
the bar.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
But behind that, for sure, me, definitely i'd be a hider.
I'd be a hider.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
But also, like you know, my biggest issue I hate
to get like a splinter. So I'm really gonna be
out here like trying to cover up my like nail
my windows with some wood, and I'm gonna get a
splinter and just have like an autistic breakdown and.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Just you're never gonna see me. The the zombies are eating
my feet, Like.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
That's a great one, because like there's my allergies are
kicking off right now. And I keep rubbing my eye
even though I shoult. I'm like, I got yeah, that's what.
I keep running my eye and I keep rubbing it
at night. And if I was in the post apocalyptic,
post infected world where I'm like hiding and basements and
crawling through crawl spaces and on these like a little
(40:03):
different like Heidi holes, I'd be would not be able
to stop rubbing my.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Eye or your eyes would be.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Lost my eye and I'd be dead and I wouldn't
get a million percent get infected by corty SIPs somehow.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I mean, also, you know what, I love bread, So
I would have been dead already because I would have
already eaten the flower, like I would have been there.
They're like, oh guys, there might be a recall on
some bread. I'm like sorry, I'm already eating it, like
and then I'm dead, dead by quarter steps. So I
don't think either of us would have made it to Jackson,
But who knows. Maybe we'd meet like a hunky dad
like Joel and he'd help you.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
That would be great. Neither boo.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
He's also out. He also has glasses.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Basically all of us have done comments only one surviving,
Me and Christina.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Once we both have like about the same I prescription,
so we did. We took off our glasses and we
stood at opposite ends of the room, and we were like, okay,
let's keep taking a step towards each other until we
can see and clearly make out each other's faces. And
it was so pathetic, like how close we had to get,
(41:11):
like it was literally like within arm's reach to be like, okay,
I recognize.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Truly, that's something also like my I think the only
way I would survive is like if I think the
likelihood of me surviving would be way higher if I
was like if I had not done a good job
at getting my medication so I didn't have like my
lexapro and all the other things, keep my stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
If I stocked up, I could I could run.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
If I didn't have it, and I became like really
deranged and like was not on any medication and was
just hyped up all the time.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Maybe there's a version where I could survive.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
I think normal, comfortable, like sensible Rosie that I am
now I would not survive, but deranged teen Rosie. Oh maybe.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Shit it if I have to like jump on an
infected's back and stab it to death, forget it. That
it's never happening.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I gotta make friends with someone like Tommy, who's gonna
teach me how.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
To snipe as close as.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
I'm gay, I need as well, and I need to
know the bullet guy. Whoever the bullet guy.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Is the bullet guy who's come on, guys, send me
a message. We got to start getting their post apocalyptic together. Okay,
Aaron says, can we talk about Isabella.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
She's so great.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I love her plays Dina obviously star of Madam Webb
famous role and The Last City of Gord, which, by
the way, is actually hilarious banging movie.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
You should actually.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Watch it. She's so good.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
I love how warm she is. I also love she
is and for Joel because I.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Like the moment when Joel says to Gail like she
acts like she's my daughter. It's like, no, she acts
like what you wish your daughter would act like. You know,
actually know what your daughter would act like, because she
is dead and that traumatized you. And now you have
this surrogate daughter who doesn't behave in any of the
ways that you wish a daughter would act. And I
(43:12):
think Dina is so brilliant and Isabella is so brilliant
in the role because you kind of just immediately feel like, yeah,
I understand her. She's in this world, this is her
place within it, and she has gone to live, as
far as we know, a rather sheltered life in Jackson,
Wyoming because she has so much confidence.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
In her safety there.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
And you know, she's running around and drinking and dancing
and living it up, and for some reason, she's feeling
so secure that she even dumps Jesse, who is the
hot young brother from Beef. So I'm like, babe, you're
(43:53):
feeling you're feeling pretty confident, but she obviously feeling she's
having those bisexual feelings, and I support it.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Gives me a real sense of like dread to that
of what they're about to go through. Yeah, and you're
absolutely right to point out that it certainly seems like
Dina has not had either. She is pretty unaffected by Dale, yeah,
(44:24):
by the trauma of what's occurred these last ten fifteen years,
or she's been so effectively sheltered by the worst parts
of it that she still has this wonderful, like sunny
like optimism, Like.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
She doesn't she'll get drunk, she'll die, Like she has
an ease to her that Ellie does not have.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
And you know, this is a show about revenge, and
it's the revenge she's about to get swept up in it.
And I think it's really sad. Again. I can't stop
thinking about how Dale Gail excuse me, really is she
exists to be the answer to how you stop all
(45:08):
of this. Yeah, it's really And you understand why it's
so hard, like to sit there with the person who
killed your husband and be like, it wasn't your fault.
I'm really angry about it. Yeah, I understand that it
was not your fault. You couldn't do anything, but I
need to express that I'm like furious and I'm heartbroken.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah. And also it reminds me a lot of you know,
we recently did our dead evil episode one O eight
recap and talk, And there's a moment in that where
my favorite characters everyone knows Ben Poindex the mass murderer,
Benjamin Poindex the AKA boys, you know, love that guy.
(45:49):
But he says to Matt, he says, you know, in
another world, wouldn't you be defending me? Because isn't that
what good men do? They defend their worst enemies, you know.
And I think that Gail is essentially that representation for
the Last of Us, where yeah, you have to fucking
swallow it. You have to say, hey, we live in
a fucking zombie apocalypse and people are gonna die. And
(46:13):
I will say, shall we do like a two minute
put your ear muffs on if you haven't played, Yeah,
let's doe the station. Okay, put yours on. If you
have a blank game and you want to stay spoiler free.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, just just turn to the episode.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Just turn the episode. Now.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
We love you, bye, thank you for listening. Thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you. Here we go, we're
about to start it now. Okay, let's start it now.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I think something that the inevitable death.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
Of Joel that you know, I think episode.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
I think episode two it has to happen because now
we've seen Abby's gang, unless they decide to do a
bottle episode about Abby and her journey there, which I
could see them potentially doing.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I could see them doing it.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Basically, if the show had followed the game, they would
have killed him in episode one, and I think if
they'd have cast anyone other than Pedro Pascal, they would
have killed them in APIs. He is so fantastic that
you want to have him around as long as you can.
But I do think that having this extra time does
(47:15):
lessen some of the emotional propulsion that you get from
the horrific events and the way that they chose to
represent Joel's massacre, which I thought was so fantastically done
and so so correct. That's the only way to represent it.
But when this episode begins, you see Abby and the
(47:35):
gang and they're burying the bodies and there's maybe like,
I know, eight bodies or something, and then you kind
of spend time in why. I mean, you see all
these different people coming and you kind of start thinking, well,
kind of like you said about the way Gail responds
to Joel killing Eugene is like, well, actually a lot
of people do just die in this world and we
don't know if the cure would have worked, and it starts,
I think, to lessen a little bit of the empathy
(48:00):
and understanding that you would have with Abby, and obviously
we're not in her shoes and the way we are
in the game, but like, I just think that suddenly
I was like, wait a minute, everyone kills people in
this and kind of like maybe Joel, you know, maybe
I suddenly don't think Joel was the most wrong in
the world for doing it. And I never really had
(48:20):
that feeling when I played the game, even though there
was a massive gap between them. I immediately was like,
I understand why this is happening.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
What Joel did was horrific.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
But here I feel a bit more. I feel like
it has become after this episode, and maybe that's just
their great storytelling, because I do love Joel in this show,
but I feel like it's become a little bit less
urgent and a little bit less clean cut than it
felt at the end of the last series.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
I don't disagree with the tape, but I think I'm
going to give it until episode two to see because
I agree with you. I do think that we have
to I think that it would make sense to see
a lot of Abby's backstory before they kill Joel. Yes,
just so she doesn't immediately become the pure antagonist because
(49:09):
she's she's not. She's acting according to the same urges
and desire for justice that Ellie is about to be
working under her, working on her.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yes, I think if they if they do the next
episode and they show what Joel did from Abby's perspective
when she was younger, when she saw her father being killed,
I think that could put us in a good position
to understand everything that's about to come next.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I completely agree, do they I wonder how, uh you know?
How slow they do kill Joel? Do you think I
imagine it? It can't be worse than it is in
the game, because the game is pretty fucking bad.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
It can't be worse than it is in the game.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
And I also think, do they learn from a show
like The Walking Dead where after Joel in the chat
was like famous last words, Craig's to hurt us is about.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
To go down? But also I would say, do they
learn from.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
A show like The Walking Dead where after Glenn was
killed and the kind of vicious brutality that they seem
to lavish in that moment and the horror that they
put on him and the way that Megan killed.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Him spoiler alert for like a ten year old chair
and a fifteen year old comic.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
But do they learn that maybe people don't want to
see that and then they're not gonna tune in after
that happens, or do they go super gruesome and they
hope that people's love for Joel and Vengeance will want
to see, you know, Ellie go on this quest. And
they have been quite interesting in this press tour, the
creators saying, well, they might not be a last of
(50:53):
us season three, So I'm also interested to see how
much of the game we cover in this Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
I My other big question is how much how big
are the changes? I think clearly we've seen already that
the changes, while somewhat small, have been I think significant.
They feel the way they've widened the world, whether it's
this new kind of infected or you know, the bringing
(51:21):
Abby and her crew into the story in a different way.
And so I wonder if we end up in the
same place.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
I know That's what I was wondering too, is like,
are they gonna, Yeah, what are the changes that we're
gonna see and Yeah, I'm very interested to see where
they go next because this is gonna be, I think,
one of the most controversial and like shocking moments in TV.
(51:50):
If you don't know what's coming.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
I completely agree. I'll be super Bizerve Boots selling us
that season three I confirmed yesterday.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
Will be wrong. There will be a season three, thanks
Craig Mazon tell us.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
There will be other There will be other episodes of
X ray Vision in the next few episodes. We're breaking
down the season finale of Daredevil Born Again on Thursday,
and then next week we begin our journey with and
Or season two. Wednesday, we'll have our recaps of the
first three episodes of and Or season two, and then
Friday we'll do a deep dive with a full Jedi
Council roundtable discussion about the show. Plaus We're gonna break
(52:24):
down a little bit more backstory on the thunder Bolts
with our book Club episode on Thursday, covering the first
issue of Thunderbolts number one from nineteen ninety seven. That's
it for this episode. Thanks for listening. Bye. X ray
Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion, I'm rosday Night and
(52:45):
is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
Our executive producers are Joe Alminique and Aaron Kolefman.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bai Wag.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin. Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi are Discord moderator
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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