May 19, 2025 • 39 mins
It’s a bottle episode! Joel is back! Backstory time! Jason and Rosie recap episode 6 of season 2 of The Last of Us, and we finally learn just how far you can push the bounds of a patient-therapist relationship, and still not be fired by your therapist.
Follow Rosie: IG & Letterboxd
Follow X-Ray Vision on Instagram
Join the X-Ray Vision Discord
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode contains spoilers for the excellent penultimate episode of
season two of the Last of Us.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
On Max Watch It It's Coming.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's Jason gets Epsy on and on Wesday Night. And
Welcome back to Exervision of the podcast where we diabe
vide your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture. Come
are you from my art podcast, where we're bringing you
three episodes a week on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Games plus news.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
In today's episode is episode six of The Lost of
Us Season two.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Oh Baby. If you've been missing Joel, He's back. Guess what.
He's back. Everything's facking's fun.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
If you've been missing crying watching this show, guess what
You're gonna cry again?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
And Yeah, if you.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Want to know our theories going into the finale, which
we have not seen, I just want to double lee
say that we have not seen it.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
You will hear those two. So let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We open on a flashback to the Four Times. It's
nineteen eighty three Tommy and Jewel Or teens in Austin, Texas.
The boys have just gotten in trouble for a fight,
apparently around a pot deal their dad Tommy and Joel's dad,
Jack Ducane, the swordsman. Oh my god, unexpectedly Jack.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
This is a very depressing like opening. It's really not
you're going to get into it. It's so depressing.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
But immediately I was like, it's a swordsman again.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And he got out of the cage and red hook it.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
And now he's a cop. I don't like to be
in a to being a swordsman guy.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So their dad is saying to Joel, stop trying to
cover for your brother. I know it was you. I
got reports from the other officers who were on the scene,
and then dad proceeds to tell a story about how
he once stole a candy bar and his dad, their
grandfather broke his punch him in the face so hardy
broke his jaw, and the lesson that he is trying.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
With tears in his eyes. It's terrible story.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
But he's like he knows he's a bad dad at least.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, I mean, listen, I get it.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
There's a child of immigrants and the generations. Yeah, like,
you know they beat your ass.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
That we got will they would beat your ass back
in the day.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Let's not talk about it.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
But a three it was a bad time.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I was not. I was like, you're bad, dad, but
I do.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I like.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
His basic message was.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Like yeah, which is like, I'm doing better than my dad.
I'm not breaking.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
I'm just like beating with a belt or something like yeah,
but you know, I'm doing my best.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I'm doing my best, and.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
He's he leaves Joel and us with I'm doing a
little better than my father, did. I hope you do
a little better than me. We fast forward to Jackson.
It is the year of Ellie's fifteenth birthday and Seth
is contracted with Joel to provide a cake in return
for a bag of legos which Joel has scavenged from
(03:27):
around Jackson. We find out Seth is a former walkie cop.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I like that.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Seth is like, well, I couldn't scavenge those legos, and
Joel was like, well, I'm a smuggler. And in my
head I'm thinking, like Joel's like killed a family Mike,
like somewhere else to get the legos.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I'm like, there's.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Only a reason why Joel could get them and you couldn't.
But you know, it's a sweet moment.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Sure, Yeah, legos are cool.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I love Lego.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Joel goes home and is working a piece of bone
that he found somewhere into the saddle.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
For the brig of an acoustic guitar.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
He then works a beautiful moth into the neck of
the guitar, which he inlays with the bone, and the
guitar sounds great. Tommy brings Ellie home. Ellie has burned
her arm on purpose, clearly to cover the bite scars,
and she says like, I just really wanted to wear
short sleeves again.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
You know what I have to say This moment, just
of Joel being so worried for Ellie and Ellie kind
of feeling guilty about upsetting Joel but explaining why she
did what she did. This really just honed in on
how great these two are together and how I think
that the show does a better job when the two
(04:43):
of them are together. And that's not to say there's
a version of the show without Joel that wouldn't work.
I just think that this episode shows that the focus
of the show was always supposed to be Joel, and
without Joel, I feel like they're a little bit less impactful.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Well, I think one of the things that this excellent
heartbreaking episode of the Last of Us had me thinking,
was we need one of these for Dina, people who
are Jesse, who are still Jesse, for the people Abby,
for the people who are still in our story. So
later on they have the birthday party. Joel brings out
(05:22):
the cake. It's not chocolate. Ellie's name is spelled wrong,
but whatever, We're gonna move past that.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
He gives Ellie the guitar. Ellie is like, well, it's
my birthday.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
You got to sing something She hasn't learned how to
play yet, and so Joel sings if I ever were
to lose you by pearl jam, which is generationally correct
for Joel. Ellie is super impressed and Joel And there's
so many like wonderful connective moments where these characters are
so good at hurting each other and making each other
(05:52):
mad and then trying somehow to like say something to
like make up for the pain they caused. And I
think one of the things that's so great about this
episode is the pain that each of them cause each
other keeps getting worse, and their ability to bridge that
gap gets lesser and lesser with each apps, so you
(06:13):
can feel the divide really growing but here Joel is
able to say. He says, you know, like, I understand,
I get why you burnt your arm.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I understand. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I also think that it was a really smart choice
of that song, specifically because it literally sounds like it's
kind of revealing Joel's manifesto. This is almost like his confession.
It really is he does and his intention. And I
was really kind of blown away by how well that
(06:43):
fitted and how much it kind of sets up what
the meat of this episode is going to be.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
We fast forward a year, so now it's at least
sixteenth birthday. They're out in the woods summertime, at least,
trying to guess what her gift is going to be.
She's also agitating to go on patrols, which she's not
allowed to do yet. She's like, you know, Jesse could
train me, And Joel's like, oh, is that the boy
you like? Is that your boyfriend?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I've got a.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Keen eye for that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
No, not really.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
The gift is a visit to a museum out in
the woods that's been overgrown to this a moment from
the video game that is rendered here wonderfully and elevated.
I think from the game.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So the first thing they come to is this statue
of a t Rex, which Ellie climbs. She's so delighted.
They go inside the museum. There's like a solar system,
a display that you can move around with a hand crank.
Joel gives Ellie a rock and they're standing in front
of this display of Apollo astronauts stuff and it's like,
go ahead, like it's your birthday. Break whichever display you want,
(07:55):
and you know, get your space helmet. She breaks one.
She gets the this Apollo era space helmet. They crawl
into the space capsule that is there, and you know,
Ellie's like flipping switches and stuff. Joel gives her the
final the coup de gras gift, and it's a cassette
tape recording of some Apollo space launch and Ellie listens
(08:16):
to it. She's imagining herself lifting off and then going
into space. It's just really beautifully shot. You don't you
see it all on her face with a change of
lighting so.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
That the orange, so yeah, you can really see how
I will say, this is the stuff that I think
the show has not given other characters enough time with.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
This is what I was missing we were critical of
three and four a little bit, but this is the
stuff I love about this.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Yeah, four and five, like I think were a little
bit less for us, But like, I.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Think the thing is like these moments.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
You know, it's like in the game the Giraffe, it's
like here, like when you get these moments. And I
understand we had, you know, the take on me moment
in five, but it didn't get to be about out
both of them. What I didn't see that connection there
in the same way I don't see everything with them
is about survival. And I think something that we've always
loved about these games and the show is that you
(09:11):
get those beautiful moments, and I feel like I would
love to see more of that with Ellie and Dina,
or Diana and Jesse or even yeah, even Abby. You know,
we do have to know more about her as we
head into the end of this season in season three,
So I think, like I love these and these this
moment got me like I was crying.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
I cried the first time I watched it, right the
second time I watched it, but it's not It did also.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Make me think, like, oh, why is this affecting me
so much more than the last couple of episodes, and
I do think it's this focus on Joel and Ellie
and the way that they bring them to life and
the kind of space and time that they get to
exist in with each other.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, for me, it's like, you know, it's interesting when
I play the game, I'm almost like zooming past these
moments because the game for me.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Is.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
About kill, kill kill.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I was gonna say, you want to be killing some zombies.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I want to be killing and kill kill.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
And I think the reason this episode really resonated with
me so much is for me, this show is about
how important and precious life is, and that even when
you're taking it, you should realize it's something you're doing,
something tragic that has ripple effects, right, And I think
(10:30):
that when the show turns away from that, it turns
away by having these kind of like meaningless video game kills,
like meaningless video game deaths right where you see Dina
shoot a wolf in the head and you're like, good, okay.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Yeah, meaningless like video game kind of antagonists like the
Scars who we don't get to know.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
The central thesis of the show is like, all of
these deaths matter to someone, and this episode really drills
down on that, showing you how like the how precious
these moments, how these final a person's final moments are
the precious their life is to someone else, and examining
that through the lens of this like horrible situation everybody
(11:10):
finds himself.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
So I just that's a great point.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Actually, And when we go into the more action oriented
episodes is where I feel that almost that the show
is turning away from that ethos.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So I think every life is important kind.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Of yeah, because if it's that vengeance quest that Ellie
is on right now means like she just killing Nora,
like she doesn't have no thought, she's beaten out to
death with the pipe, I don't necessarily know that I'm
as sold on that side of the story as I
am on the idea of like the ripple effect of
these choices. And I think that, yeah, it's gonna be
(11:44):
interesting to see how they balance that in the finale.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
But this was this was to me, a return to form.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It was a return to It was return to the
heights that this show is capable of.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Yeah, so the emotion that you can you can make
happen in the show.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Fast forward one year later, Ellie's seventeenth birthday. It's raining outside.
Joel comes in with the cake. It is correct this time,
but he hears some weird moaning, something sounds moving around,
of sounds from Ellie's room. He bursts in and there's
a woman in there. She's nineteen, two years older than Ellie,
(12:34):
and they're buttoning their pants and getting into a state
of dress. We make him out that was some stuff.
Stuff was happening, Stuff was occurring. There's weed in the ashtray.
Ellie has a fresh chat on her arm that this
woman was putting on. Ellie admits that she is a
gay woman. Joel can't accept it. He's like, oh, we'll
(12:56):
talk about this. You're emotional right now.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It's like it wasn't an experiment, Like I'm fucking gay.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
You're just blind to it.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
But I thought this was actually kind of funny because
there's something that I think is really interesting in this
episode that they highlight, which is kind of the normality
that people who live in Jackson Hole almost take for granted.
Like Joel should be feeling, Hey, I have a nineteen
year old who is still here, who's still alive, who's
now getting to experience things that we never thought people
(13:27):
would get to experience again in these spaces like love
and getting a tattoo and smoking weed like normal teenage things.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
There's also a moment later where we see Gail in
a dina and she.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Just like reading a book and I'm just thinking, like, guys,
you have no idea how good you have it, And
I think that screw of the problem with.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
You at all right now. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
So Joel is like, you know, laying in his bed
and thinking about this argument they just had, and he
hears more noises and Ellie's moving her stuff out. She's
like gonna move into the garage, and they have it out.
Ellie eventually apologizes for you know, getting inked and messing
around with a girl on weed and basically uses this
as a way to say I should have my own
(14:08):
kind of space, shouldn't I. And Joel agrees and he's like, listen,
I will help you move. And he has to see
the tattoo. It's a moth on a leaf, and Joel says,
it's actually not.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Bad, it's really beautiful. That actually happened to say, very
well done, and we.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Will find out the importance of this is the the
show goes on and I think this is one of
the best details, but this was a story out. Yeah,
Joel goes to see Gail at the commissary. She's reading
her book and she's like.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Eating like a little diner breakfast, just like living life.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Well I was like, come on, guys, like someone here has.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
To be who's actually thinking about the zombies At this point, I.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Feel like you was all people luckily, But yeah, I
mean this is they have a great here.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
It's like it's normalish over here.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Normal is He's like, hey, what do you what is
your psycho therapy training tell you about like dream analysis,
vis a VI moths?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Like what is that? Is that?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Like transformation or what? And she's like it means death
if you believe in that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
And she's like, and the only doctors who believe in
that a stupid And I love that Gail. She was
sassy before he even killed our husband. She never liked him,
she was sick of it even then.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
So we see that among Ellie's things as she's packing
up as her sketches of various moths, you know, design
that she wanted for her tattoo, and there's a there's
a quote there that she didn't include in the tattoo,
and it says you have greater purpose. So this moth
is all about Ellie finding what her reason for being
(15:44):
alive is. That's what it means to her. We go
two years later, Ellie's nineteenth year and Ellie is practicing. Now,
she's practicing in them, asking Joel questions that she has
written down about what happened in Salt Lake, and it
basically all adds up to she doesn't believe him. She
doesn't believe his story. She's been thinking about it more,
(16:07):
she becomes more of an adult, and it just doesn't
add up. Joel arrives, but before she can ask him,
he gets her her presence, like, your present is.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
We're going on patrol. It's your first patrol. Let's go.
So they go.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It's the safest trail, very quiet there. Joel is teaching
Ellie the ropes, how to scan, how to like scout
and report.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
She's already showing she absolutely shouldn't be there, complaining about
having to scout. She's like, oh no, squirrels a fucking like,
Oh I have to look at this nature?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
How terrible for me?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Serious?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Come on, come on, to be serious a call comes
over the radio, infected in the patrol perimeter. Joel tries
to send Ellie back, but she's like, no, no, no,
I'm your partner.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
We're going. So they go.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
They climb down to the spot. There's the sound of gunshots,
there's a sound of infected. A dead scout dragged by
a horse goes past them, and they find the other scout.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It's Eugene.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
He's Babe Joey pat.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Joey Pant's baby, I wonder in an incredible performance.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
He's coming in for that special guest Emmy, the one
like he's get for like twenty minutes of being in
an episode.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
He it's heartbreaking. He's he knows he's gonna die.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
And he says, listen, I figure I got like an
hour or so.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I feel pretty good.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Right now. I want to say goodbye to Gail. Here's
my here's my pitch. Tie me up, take me back
outside the gate. Obviously I don't go inside. Gail stands
whatever it is twenty feet away. I'm still tied up,
and I get to say goodbye to her, and Joel
is like, not gonna do it. Eugene really unwisely draws
(17:48):
his gun but it's empty. Luckily, luckily it's empty. And
then Ellie is like, hold on and she does the
Federa test, the Federa infected test, you know, hold out
your hand, count to ten, and she says, I think
he has time.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I think we have time. Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So Joel is like, Okay, go climb back up, get
the horses, bring up around the trail and we'll take them.
And she goes to walk away and then stops and
is like, really, like, she gives him the most loaded
look she gives him.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I think this is a huge moment as well, because
huge moment she gives him the chance to promise and
act on the promise as it is laid out, and
I think if he did that, she would have actually
given upsis about SLC bec completely.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I think the idea is here.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
She sees the same thing happening, and she's like, can
I trust him? And can I give him a chance
to do what I deem as the right thing here? Now? Look,
I'm not gonna Lie is tying up and infected and
taking them on a horse so he can see his wife.
Like a kind of stupid idea, yes, but also at
the same time, I'm surprised that Jackson doesn't have some
(18:56):
kind of version of this, seeing as they're so well protected.
So I don't disagree with Joel here, but I also
don't how you're doing crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's just no I think you.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Listen, she's nineteen now she's going on patrol. Treat her
like a fucking adult and tell her what you what
the rules are, and what you're gonna do.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
She's not gonna like it, but don't promise.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But don't promise you can do something you can't.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Don't promise to do something. Yes, don't do that, and
he makes it worse later. So she goes off, and
Joel walks Eugene down the trail to a spot, beautiful
spot overlooking the lake, and he's like, don't turn around now,
I'm gonna shoot you, and.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Eugene begs for his life.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I don't need a view. I need Gail. I need
to see her face. I want to I'm so scared.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
I like he's like, there's a moment where Joel's like,
I'll tell her your lost words, and he's like, I
don't need how to hear my lost words.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I need her lost words. Like I am scared. I need.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I'm the one dying, yeah, but me, And Joel says,
you know, if you really love someone, you can always
see their face, and he gives he gives Eugene a
couple of moments to try and conjure Gale's image, and
he says, I could see her and then and then
Joel shoots her. We don't hear the gun shots the gun.
You just see the flight of the birds. Ellie comes
(20:16):
back with the horses and she just in her face
is so fucking mad. They go back, they bring Gail
to see Eugene's body, esquirted by Tommy. Joel fucking flat
out lies. Oh my gosh, he's flat out. He's like
he was so brave, he meant he did it himself.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
He didn't he want to.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Come back here, blah blah, and like the thing is
I do again. Then now this comes into an issue
of like a, don't let Ellie go if you don't
think that she's going to back you, and like you're
not on the same page because she is a teenager. Also,
my biggest thing is, like I understand why Joel does
have to lie about this, because that is the nature
(21:01):
of keeping things safe in Jackson but this was such
a stupid move. He should have just said, I'm so sorry, Gail.
I you know, I had to kill him. But he
loved you and he thought of you in the last
moments even then, Like maybe Ellie wouldn't have blown up
his spot, but like he he lies so distinctly and
easily and differently from what really happened that I think
(21:23):
it was obvious.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I knew it was like it was just a it
was Yeah, you get why Joel is doing it. But again,
you can do the right thing in the wrong way,
and Joel is basically the entire ethos of Joel. Joel's
entire character is I'm.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Gonna do it right.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I'm gonna do the right thing in the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And Ellie blows up the spot. He's like, that's not true.
Eugene wanted to see you. He begged for his life.
He was very fucking scared. Joel promised that he would
be able to come back and say goodbye to you,
and then Joel lied and shot him. Gail is shocked.
She slaps Joel. It is crazy that that. Gail is
(22:11):
then has to be Joel's therapist months later.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
No crazy, no, no, no, no, Joe, just speak to
your brother, speak to anyone else, babe, Like speak to
Maria like no, please.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
This is I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
But maybe the craziest thing Joel has ever done is
to walk up to Gail with a bag of weed
that Eugene grew in his grow house and be like, hey,
I want to talk about my daughter. Let's let's not
address the elephant in the fucking room.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Joel plays, Joel, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
My guy and and Jackson, please take this burden off
off of Gail. Train up some find some folks who
are good at speaking to other people, and let's get
some of this burden off of Gail.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
She should not have this kind of workload.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I love my therapist. I love therapy. It works. I'm
pro therapy.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
But look you you people in this town that are
teaching people to do like fucking the most intricate electrical stuff,
teaching people to be plumbers.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Shit, you like you can teach someone to just listen
to someone listen. This is not a lot of time.
It's just the listening. You don't it's not difficult. They
don't need to like give you a.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Diagnale doesn't time like Gail does it drunk, like any
twenty year old is going to be better at this
than Gail, Like please, please don't.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
By the way, I'm not, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I don't say that to besmirch the skills in the
craft of Earth of the Therapist.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Incredible work.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
But you know, like it's in this hellituation Jackson, and
(24:15):
we're back.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's New Year's Eve.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
It's nine months later after fucking Joe.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Why was he having therapy with her? Like at least
way a year?
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Like please, I love Like I do want men to
get therapy, but like, how about a man gets therapy
that doesn't traumatize the therapist because you killed the husband, Like,
come on, guys, come on.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
And then give her and then pay her was her
husband dead husband's weed?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
And she's like this isn't even as good as Eugene's weed.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
It's like I know that he stole that from there.
He's just not as good at growing it. I would
also say, as well, like this is the.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Maria and Tommy problem you guys are trying to live.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
You know.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Let's go back to the earliest episodes of this season,
when Jason s an iconically good line that I got
a lot of messages about which is like Jackson is
making socialism look bad, guys. And this is another one
of those moments where I'm like Maria and Tommy, You're like,
you gotta be more realistic about the interpersonal connections between
these people.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
You cannot just let Mats murderer Joel who.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
You know, even without knowing about SLC, you know that
this man has a history of being a smuggler, a criminal.
You can't just expect him to a forget that. But
also then you can't expect other people whose impacts or
who are impacted by his actions.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
To just sit around and like take it. Like now
I think post.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
This, I immediately went back and watched Gail interacting with
him in that first therapy scene and.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Like that, like that, I'm sorrying you are like the abs.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
The way that she builds in every single bit of
what we see here, it's just like so fucking good.
She's so great. But yeah, let's give her a break, please.
It was only nine months, Like, yeah, that's insane.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
At least one though, Joel is sitting with Tommy and
Maria and Tommy Maria's kid. Joel is obviously quite pensive
and sad and down, and Maria tries to lift him
up by basically saying, you know, thank you for everything
you've done. I'm sorry that I called you a refugee earlier.
That was unkind, but you know, on behalf of not
(26:28):
just Tommy and me, but the community.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And then the thing with Seth happens. Joel gets up
deck Seth and we have that whole argument. We go
to later. Joela is on the porch playing guitar.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
You're gonna cry.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Ellie comes out to see him. They make small talk.
At first, he's drinking coffee. You don't want to know
what I traded for the coffee beans, but they're okay.
Blah blah blah. Joel asks about Dina. Is that your girlfriend? Now?
Ellie's like, no, that was just one kiss. I don't
know why she did that. And then Joel here's that
moment where he tries to hand out the fig hand
(27:05):
out the peace offering, you know, to basically say.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Hey, I'm cool.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
With it, you know, like, yeah, that's the person you
want to be with, Like I'm fine with that. And
then Ellie launches into questions about Saltwake.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
And this is I just want to say, like This
is a change from what Ellie has been telling people
and what we have seen of the last moment they
were together. We saw a version where she just walked
past and never got to see him and never got
to have a conversa.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
To Jesse.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
So this is kind of a huge moment of discovery
here and again just shows that these two together, There
were moments here like I know that poor Bella, just
like you know, poor Caitlin have had to put up
with like nonsense from people about casting and video games
and blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
There are moments in this seat.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Once with the lighting and the way that Bella acts
and the small kind of micro emotions on their face,
there were multiple moments where I was like, I almost
cannot tell this is not in the video game, like
it visually looked so similar, and obviously the emotional kind
of heart and truth of this moment is like so huge.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
But yeah, I mean, it's time you got to talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
So she says lie to me, and that's it. We're done.
Our relationship is over.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
And he can tell she's telling the truth, the.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Truth, right, And she asks him like, was it raiders
that killed those people? Or was it you did was
did they really give up on the cure? Were there
really other immune people? And he admits it all with
a shake of his head, that it was all eyes.
And then he admits that he killed everyone in that
(28:53):
facility because they were making a cure that would have
killed her, and she blows up. That was my purpose,
She says, like that was the reason. If I was
going to die to save to create a cure that
would save the world, that would have been my choice.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Everybody.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
It would have given my life, meaning like, and then
we wouldn't all be in this situation.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
You took that away from me. You stole that from me.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Look, I'm not I'm not trying to be a Joel
apologist here, okay, because demanded do her like a mass murder,
and the show did a really good job of showing
how horrific it was. But I do think, like when
she asks him, could they have made a cure and
he says yes, I feel like, actually, I'm like, you
don't know that, Like that look like.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Some fucked up duty old room.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
I gotta say, I think I think more plausible deniability
for Joel here, But I appreciate that he's trying to
take full like he's trying to take full accountability for everything.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
We've talked about this, and I do want to say
that I think the Firefly has made a mistake, Like
why are we Yeah, Like, first of all, you've got
to be This is again all about clearly communicating to
people as if they are adults, to let them know
what the situation is, especially when it pertains to life
(30:11):
and death, their life and death. And I think that
with the Fireflies, one should have been clear about that.
Right now, we don't know how to do this without
killing the person one and two?
Speaker 1 (30:24):
What's the fucking run? Like, can't you figure out a
way to do it? Yeah, let's figure out like different
ways that we could do it without killing.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Blood fust See what that tells us?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I know it's crazy to be like, well, we have
to kill the one person you can, there's no other
way to do it.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
As well, I'm like, guys, you're gonna kill the one
immune person you've ever found there was no other immune people.
Doesn't sound Also, it's not like you know what I
gotta be. Look, this is I just want toone to know.
I am generally like a chill person. I don't advocate
for just killing people. But why didn't you just snipe
Joel the moment Ellie was over like under like that
(31:04):
to me is like, you guys high at this man.
He got the girl here somehow across the country, Like
but you think that he's just gonna leave, Like no,
well were you gonna give him? What do they even
give him? Like nothing, like it's no, no silly plan.
But anyway, all that side, he finally admits the.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
True He admits it, and he admits that he knows
that this was wrong what he did, and he knows
that somehow he will pay a price for this, but
that despite all of that, which again incredible acting by Pedro,
because when Abby reveals, when it's revealed that they're there
(31:46):
for him, but before he knows what it's about, he
knows what it's about, like yeah, you know, telling his
face that he's like, fuck, they caught up with me.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
This is it.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
But he's so.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Joel says that despite the fact that he knows that
this was a term of crime and that it will
catch up to him someday, he says he would do
it again, and Ellie's like, because you're selfish, and Juel's like, no,
because I love you in a way that you can't
you can't understand and you'll never understand.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
And he doesn't call back to the dad.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Yeah, he says, you know, I just hope that you
will do a bit better than me, you know, if
you have a kid, which I'm just like, first of all,
don't take that from your dad who was beating you,
and you did.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Not learn any good lessons for am because this is like,
this is a crazy thing to say to someone after.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Family secrets are crazy, like and you signed out crazy bro,
and so this is like one of the worst. This
is like the dystopian version.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
It is such a good point.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Actually, everybody I think has the version of that in
your family where you find out something that has been
buried for years and years and years and it's like this,
you know yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
And I think, like that's a really big moment.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
But also I think this achieved one of those things
that you know, I get a lot when I'm watching
a show that I love where it's like when she
was like, because yourself is I was like, no, because
he loves you, and then he said it.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
You know, It's that kind of engagement. But then this
is the most heartbreaking moment. It's like just before we
leave them.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
So Ellie says that she doesn't know if she can
forgive Joel, but that she's willing to try to do.
And we fade to black and the sound of rain,
and when we fade back, Yeah, it's nighttime. Ellie is
returning to the theater in Seattle, and she's thinking about
(33:34):
clearly thinking about all of this is on her mind
as she walks back to the theater in the rain.
Incredible episode of the Last of Us program. I wish
we had ten episodes so that I have a bottle
or a Jesse bottle or an Abbey bottle.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
This is the kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Maybe season three we'll give us more of that.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, because this is the kind of thing that elevates
it from being the Walking Deadly No, I.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Think, but I think you're right. I think that's absolutely fair.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Okay, where do we end up in episode seven? And
any predictions for where we go? I mean, clearly we're
not gonna.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
The entire game, which they which they'd always said, but
actually I have to say I felt like they were
moving through the game so quickly they will did. What
do I think we'll see? I think we'll have a
check check in back with Abby. I think we will
probably see Ellie kill another one of that group. I
(34:38):
would love if they kind of surprised us with some
more Ellie Dina time. I'm guessing we'll get from the
kind of nature of the show and the season so far,
I'm guessing we'll get some kind of do w Lf
and Scars check ins. I'm interested to see if we
get more Isaac, like more Jeffrey Wright, get to kind
(34:59):
of know a little bit more about him.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
I wonder how it.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Sets up the stage for season three, because they're game wise.
Unless it's like a lot, lot, lot lot of action,
there's not like a huge amount that we necessarily have
to go through. So I'm very interested to see how
season three expands on that until we get to to
that moment in which we kind of the Abby and
(35:26):
and Ellie showdown. So yeah, I honestly I am kind
of flummoxed because I do feel like I don't know
one hundred percent where they're necessarily going to go. But
I'm open and willing to see what are your like
top three things you think will get.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I think we will get reunion with Tommy and Jesse
and Ellie. I I would expect I think that that
will be a minor part of it and that we
will mostly be with Abby. I think that will She'll
(36:07):
we're going to see the ripple effects of the death
of one of her friends, Nora, and we're going to
see maybe her relationship with Owen.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
I was gonna say, I feel like Owen is likely
to be the next one to so I think they've
got to build a bit more on the two of
them to make that have the impact that yeah, we'll
need to have.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
But whatever the case, I think we're going to be
WLF centric next episode and kind to kind of set
up the you know, this feeling of doom, of impending
doom that's that's coming.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
You make a good point.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Actually, we could even just go directly to after Nora's death.
That feels like kind of how the show would go see,
you know how, because how will they find out with
her being down in the spores And obviously we know
there are certain kind of creatures that we are thing
to see before the end of this season.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Because I think that there's.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
As a person who watches every like this is what
three thousand hours of the last of US two super
cut looks like when people are just like Ellie John wicking,
like through good Seattle, like muck. I think there's I
wonder if season three, for a portion of it isn't
going to be almost a horror movie where Ellie is
(37:27):
the monster, because you know, wow, that could.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Be really, really effective if they translate that feeling from
the finale of season one to Ellie and season two
and kind of.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Just going on a rampage while Abby and her friends
are like, oh my god, like hap should we have
killed this girl? How do we stop her? She's like
killing everyone we love. I think that could be really powerful.
But I'm excited. I you know this is this episode
was a killer and I can't wait to see how they.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Follow it up.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Like this just elevated the material that they have. I
completely agree with you. They it did a wonderful job
of marrying camera angles and setups and dialogue from the
video games, but expanding those scenes so that there are
other more surprising, more deep parts of those scenes. And Yeah,
(38:23):
when this show is hitting on all cylinders as this
episode was.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Maybe.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
At its finest prestige.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Okay, on the next few episodes of x ray Vision.
We're celebrating the forty fifth anniversary of the Empire strikes Back.
Whoa Oh, and the twentieth anniversary Oh my God a Revenge,
and then preparing for the final journey of Ethan hunt
for our Mission Impossible. The final reckoning preparation shows. That's
(38:53):
it for this episode, Extra Listening. Convicted x ray Vision
is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie Knight and is
a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bai wag.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our discord moderator.
Warning.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode contains spoilers for the excellent penultimate episode of
season two of the Last of Us.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
On Max Watch It It's Coming.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's Jason gets Epsy on and on Wesday Night. And
Welcome back to Exervision of the podcast where we diabe
vide your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture. Come
are you from my art podcast, where we're bringing you
three episodes a week on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Games plus news.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
In today's episode is episode six of The Lost of
Us Season two.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Oh Baby. If you've been missing Joel, He's back. Guess what.
He's back. Everything's facking's fun.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
If you've been missing crying watching this show, guess what
You're gonna cry again?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
And Yeah, if you.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Want to know our theories going into the finale, which
we have not seen, I just want to double lee
say that we have not seen it.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
You will hear those two. So let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We open on a flashback to the Four Times. It's
nineteen eighty three Tommy and Jewel Or teens in Austin, Texas.
The boys have just gotten in trouble for a fight,
apparently around a pot deal their dad Tommy and Joel's dad,
Jack Ducane, the swordsman. Oh my god, unexpectedly Jack.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
This is a very depressing like opening. It's really not
you're going to get into it. It's so depressing.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
But immediately I was like, it's a swordsman again.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And he got out of the cage and red hook it.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
And now he's a cop. I don't like to be
in a to being a swordsman guy.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So their dad is saying to Joel, stop trying to
cover for your brother. I know it was you. I
got reports from the other officers who were on the scene,
and then dad proceeds to tell a story about how
he once stole a candy bar and his dad, their
grandfather broke his punch him in the face so hardy
broke his jaw, and the lesson that he is trying.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
With tears in his eyes. It's terrible story.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
But he's like he knows he's a bad dad at least.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, I mean, listen, I get it.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
There's a child of immigrants and the generations. Yeah, like,
you know they beat your ass.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
That we got will they would beat your ass back
in the day.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Let's not talk about it.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
But a three it was a bad time.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I was not. I was like, you're bad, dad, but
I do.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I like.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
His basic message was.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Like yeah, which is like, I'm doing better than my dad.
I'm not breaking.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
I'm just like beating with a belt or something like yeah,
but you know, I'm doing my best.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I'm doing my best, and.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
He's he leaves Joel and us with I'm doing a
little better than my father, did. I hope you do
a little better than me. We fast forward to Jackson.
It is the year of Ellie's fifteenth birthday and Seth
is contracted with Joel to provide a cake in return
for a bag of legos which Joel has scavenged from
(03:27):
around Jackson. We find out Seth is a former walkie cop.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I like that.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Seth is like, well, I couldn't scavenge those legos, and
Joel was like, well, I'm a smuggler. And in my
head I'm thinking, like Joel's like killed a family Mike,
like somewhere else to get the legos.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I'm like, there's.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Only a reason why Joel could get them and you couldn't.
But you know, it's a sweet moment.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Sure, Yeah, legos are cool.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I love Lego.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Joel goes home and is working a piece of bone
that he found somewhere into the saddle.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
For the brig of an acoustic guitar.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
He then works a beautiful moth into the neck of
the guitar, which he inlays with the bone, and the
guitar sounds great. Tommy brings Ellie home. Ellie has burned
her arm on purpose, clearly to cover the bite scars,
and she says like, I just really wanted to wear
short sleeves again.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
You know what I have to say This moment, just
of Joel being so worried for Ellie and Ellie kind
of feeling guilty about upsetting Joel but explaining why she
did what she did. This really just honed in on
how great these two are together and how I think
that the show does a better job when the two
(04:43):
of them are together. And that's not to say there's
a version of the show without Joel that wouldn't work.
I just think that this episode shows that the focus
of the show was always supposed to be Joel, and
without Joel, I feel like they're a little bit less impactful.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Well, I think one of the things that this excellent
heartbreaking episode of the Last of Us had me thinking,
was we need one of these for Dina, people who
are Jesse, who are still Jesse, for the people Abby,
for the people who are still in our story. So
later on they have the birthday party. Joel brings out
(05:22):
the cake. It's not chocolate. Ellie's name is spelled wrong,
but whatever, We're gonna move past that.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
He gives Ellie the guitar. Ellie is like, well, it's
my birthday.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
You got to sing something She hasn't learned how to
play yet, and so Joel sings if I ever were
to lose you by pearl jam, which is generationally correct
for Joel. Ellie is super impressed and Joel And there's
so many like wonderful connective moments where these characters are
so good at hurting each other and making each other
(05:52):
mad and then trying somehow to like say something to
like make up for the pain they caused. And I
think one of the things that's so great about this
episode is the pain that each of them cause each
other keeps getting worse, and their ability to bridge that
gap gets lesser and lesser with each apps, so you
(06:13):
can feel the divide really growing but here Joel is
able to say. He says, you know, like, I understand,
I get why you burnt your arm.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I understand. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I also think that it was a really smart choice
of that song, specifically because it literally sounds like it's
kind of revealing Joel's manifesto. This is almost like his confession.
It really is he does and his intention. And I
was really kind of blown away by how well that
(06:43):
fitted and how much it kind of sets up what
the meat of this episode is going to be.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
We fast forward a year, so now it's at least
sixteenth birthday. They're out in the woods summertime, at least,
trying to guess what her gift is going to be.
She's also agitating to go on patrols, which she's not
allowed to do yet. She's like, you know, Jesse could
train me, And Joel's like, oh, is that the boy
you like? Is that your boyfriend?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I've got a.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Keen eye for that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
No, not really.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
The gift is a visit to a museum out in
the woods that's been overgrown to this a moment from
the video game that is rendered here wonderfully and elevated.
I think from the game.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So the first thing they come to is this statue
of a t Rex, which Ellie climbs. She's so delighted.
They go inside the museum. There's like a solar system,
a display that you can move around with a hand crank.
Joel gives Ellie a rock and they're standing in front
of this display of Apollo astronauts stuff and it's like,
go ahead, like it's your birthday. Break whichever display you want,
(07:55):
and you know, get your space helmet. She breaks one.
She gets the this Apollo era space helmet. They crawl
into the space capsule that is there, and you know,
Ellie's like flipping switches and stuff. Joel gives her the
final the coup de gras gift, and it's a cassette
tape recording of some Apollo space launch and Ellie listens
(08:16):
to it. She's imagining herself lifting off and then going
into space. It's just really beautifully shot. You don't you
see it all on her face with a change of
lighting so.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
That the orange, so yeah, you can really see how
I will say, this is the stuff that I think
the show has not given other characters enough time with.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
This is what I was missing we were critical of
three and four a little bit, but this is the
stuff I love about this.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Yeah, four and five, like I think were a little
bit less for us, But like, I.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Think the thing is like these moments.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
You know, it's like in the game the Giraffe, it's
like here, like when you get these moments. And I
understand we had, you know, the take on me moment
in five, but it didn't get to be about out
both of them. What I didn't see that connection there
in the same way I don't see everything with them
is about survival. And I think something that we've always
loved about these games and the show is that you
(09:11):
get those beautiful moments, and I feel like I would
love to see more of that with Ellie and Dina,
or Diana and Jesse or even yeah, even Abby. You know,
we do have to know more about her as we
head into the end of this season in season three,
So I think, like I love these and these this
moment got me like I was crying.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
I cried the first time I watched it, right the
second time I watched it, but it's not It did also.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Make me think, like, oh, why is this affecting me
so much more than the last couple of episodes, and
I do think it's this focus on Joel and Ellie
and the way that they bring them to life and
the kind of space and time that they get to
exist in with each other.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, for me, it's like, you know, it's interesting when
I play the game, I'm almost like zooming past these
moments because the game for me.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Is.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
About kill, kill kill.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I was gonna say, you want to be killing some zombies.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I want to be killing and kill kill.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
And I think the reason this episode really resonated with
me so much is for me, this show is about
how important and precious life is, and that even when
you're taking it, you should realize it's something you're doing,
something tragic that has ripple effects, right, And I think
(10:30):
that when the show turns away from that, it turns
away by having these kind of like meaningless video game kills,
like meaningless video game deaths right where you see Dina
shoot a wolf in the head and you're like, good, okay.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Yeah, meaningless like video game kind of antagonists like the
Scars who we don't get to know.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
The central thesis of the show is like, all of
these deaths matter to someone, and this episode really drills
down on that, showing you how like the how precious
these moments, how these final a person's final moments are
the precious their life is to someone else, and examining
that through the lens of this like horrible situation everybody
(11:10):
finds himself.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
So I just that's a great point.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Actually, And when we go into the more action oriented
episodes is where I feel that almost that the show
is turning away from that ethos.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So I think every life is important kind.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Of yeah, because if it's that vengeance quest that Ellie
is on right now means like she just killing Nora,
like she doesn't have no thought, she's beaten out to
death with the pipe, I don't necessarily know that I'm
as sold on that side of the story as I
am on the idea of like the ripple effect of
these choices. And I think that, yeah, it's gonna be
(11:44):
interesting to see how they balance that in the finale.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
But this was this was to me, a return to form.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It was a return to It was return to the
heights that this show is capable of.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Yeah, so the emotion that you can you can make
happen in the show.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Fast forward one year later, Ellie's seventeenth birthday. It's raining outside.
Joel comes in with the cake. It is correct this time,
but he hears some weird moaning, something sounds moving around,
of sounds from Ellie's room. He bursts in and there's
a woman in there. She's nineteen, two years older than Ellie,
(12:34):
and they're buttoning their pants and getting into a state
of dress. We make him out that was some stuff.
Stuff was happening, Stuff was occurring. There's weed in the ashtray.
Ellie has a fresh chat on her arm that this
woman was putting on. Ellie admits that she is a
gay woman. Joel can't accept it. He's like, oh, we'll
(12:56):
talk about this. You're emotional right now.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It's like it wasn't an experiment, Like I'm fucking gay.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
You're just blind to it.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
But I thought this was actually kind of funny because
there's something that I think is really interesting in this
episode that they highlight, which is kind of the normality
that people who live in Jackson Hole almost take for granted.
Like Joel should be feeling, Hey, I have a nineteen
year old who is still here, who's still alive, who's
now getting to experience things that we never thought people
(13:27):
would get to experience again in these spaces like love
and getting a tattoo and smoking weed like normal teenage things.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
There's also a moment later where we see Gail in
a dina and she.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Just like reading a book and I'm just thinking, like, guys,
you have no idea how good you have it, And
I think that screw of the problem with.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
You at all right now. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
So Joel is like, you know, laying in his bed
and thinking about this argument they just had, and he
hears more noises and Ellie's moving her stuff out. She's
like gonna move into the garage, and they have it out.
Ellie eventually apologizes for you know, getting inked and messing
around with a girl on weed and basically uses this
as a way to say I should have my own
(14:08):
kind of space, shouldn't I. And Joel agrees and he's like, listen,
I will help you move. And he has to see
the tattoo. It's a moth on a leaf, and Joel says,
it's actually not.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Bad, it's really beautiful. That actually happened to say, very
well done, and we.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Will find out the importance of this is the the
show goes on and I think this is one of
the best details, but this was a story out. Yeah,
Joel goes to see Gail at the commissary. She's reading
her book and she's like.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Eating like a little diner breakfast, just like living life.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Well I was like, come on, guys, like someone here has.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
To be who's actually thinking about the zombies At this point, I.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Feel like you was all people luckily, But yeah, I
mean this is they have a great here.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
It's like it's normalish over here.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Normal is He's like, hey, what do you what is
your psycho therapy training tell you about like dream analysis,
vis a VI moths?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Like what is that? Is that?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Like transformation or what? And she's like it means death
if you believe in that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
And she's like, and the only doctors who believe in
that a stupid And I love that Gail. She was
sassy before he even killed our husband. She never liked him,
she was sick of it even then.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
So we see that among Ellie's things as she's packing
up as her sketches of various moths, you know, design
that she wanted for her tattoo, and there's a there's
a quote there that she didn't include in the tattoo,
and it says you have greater purpose. So this moth
is all about Ellie finding what her reason for being
(15:44):
alive is. That's what it means to her. We go
two years later, Ellie's nineteenth year and Ellie is practicing. Now,
she's practicing in them, asking Joel questions that she has
written down about what happened in Salt Lake, and it
basically all adds up to she doesn't believe him. She
doesn't believe his story. She's been thinking about it more,
(16:07):
she becomes more of an adult, and it just doesn't
add up. Joel arrives, but before she can ask him,
he gets her her presence, like, your present is.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
We're going on patrol. It's your first patrol. Let's go.
So they go.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It's the safest trail, very quiet there. Joel is teaching
Ellie the ropes, how to scan, how to like scout
and report.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
She's already showing she absolutely shouldn't be there, complaining about
having to scout. She's like, oh no, squirrels a fucking like,
Oh I have to look at this nature?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
How terrible for me?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Serious?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Come on, come on, to be serious a call comes
over the radio, infected in the patrol perimeter. Joel tries
to send Ellie back, but she's like, no, no, no,
I'm your partner.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
We're going. So they go.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
They climb down to the spot. There's the sound of gunshots,
there's a sound of infected. A dead scout dragged by
a horse goes past them, and they find the other scout.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It's Eugene.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
He's Babe Joey pat.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Joey Pant's baby, I wonder in an incredible performance.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
He's coming in for that special guest Emmy, the one
like he's get for like twenty minutes of being in
an episode.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
He it's heartbreaking. He's he knows he's gonna die.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
And he says, listen, I figure I got like an
hour or so.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I feel pretty good.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Right now. I want to say goodbye to Gail. Here's
my here's my pitch. Tie me up, take me back
outside the gate. Obviously I don't go inside. Gail stands
whatever it is twenty feet away. I'm still tied up,
and I get to say goodbye to her, and Joel
is like, not gonna do it. Eugene really unwisely draws
(17:48):
his gun but it's empty. Luckily, luckily it's empty. And
then Ellie is like, hold on and she does the
Federa test, the Federa infected test, you know, hold out
your hand, count to ten, and she says, I think
he has time.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I think we have time. Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So Joel is like, Okay, go climb back up, get
the horses, bring up around the trail and we'll take them.
And she goes to walk away and then stops and
is like, really, like, she gives him the most loaded
look she gives him.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I think this is a huge moment as well, because
huge moment she gives him the chance to promise and
act on the promise as it is laid out, and
I think if he did that, she would have actually
given upsis about SLC bec completely.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I think the idea is here.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
She sees the same thing happening, and she's like, can
I trust him? And can I give him a chance
to do what I deem as the right thing here? Now? Look,
I'm not gonna Lie is tying up and infected and
taking them on a horse so he can see his wife.
Like a kind of stupid idea, yes, but also at
the same time, I'm surprised that Jackson doesn't have some
(18:56):
kind of version of this, seeing as they're so well protected.
So I don't disagree with Joel here, but I also
don't how you're doing crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's just no I think you.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Listen, she's nineteen now she's going on patrol. Treat her
like a fucking adult and tell her what you what
the rules are, and what you're gonna do.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
She's not gonna like it, but don't promise.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But don't promise you can do something you can't.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Don't promise to do something. Yes, don't do that, and
he makes it worse later. So she goes off, and
Joel walks Eugene down the trail to a spot, beautiful
spot overlooking the lake, and he's like, don't turn around now,
I'm gonna shoot you, and.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Eugene begs for his life.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I don't need a view. I need Gail. I need
to see her face. I want to I'm so scared.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
I like he's like, there's a moment where Joel's like,
I'll tell her your lost words, and he's like, I
don't need how to hear my lost words.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I need her lost words. Like I am scared. I need.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I'm the one dying, yeah, but me, And Joel says,
you know, if you really love someone, you can always
see their face, and he gives he gives Eugene a
couple of moments to try and conjure Gale's image, and
he says, I could see her and then and then
Joel shoots her. We don't hear the gun shots the gun.
You just see the flight of the birds. Ellie comes
(20:16):
back with the horses and she just in her face
is so fucking mad. They go back, they bring Gail
to see Eugene's body, esquirted by Tommy. Joel fucking flat
out lies. Oh my gosh, he's flat out. He's like
he was so brave, he meant he did it himself.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
He didn't he want to.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Come back here, blah blah, and like the thing is
I do again. Then now this comes into an issue
of like a, don't let Ellie go if you don't
think that she's going to back you, and like you're
not on the same page because she is a teenager. Also,
my biggest thing is, like I understand why Joel does
have to lie about this, because that is the nature
(21:01):
of keeping things safe in Jackson but this was such
a stupid move. He should have just said, I'm so sorry, Gail.
I you know, I had to kill him. But he
loved you and he thought of you in the last
moments even then, Like maybe Ellie wouldn't have blown up
his spot, but like he he lies so distinctly and
easily and differently from what really happened that I think
(21:23):
it was obvious.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I knew it was like it was just a it
was Yeah, you get why Joel is doing it. But again,
you can do the right thing in the wrong way,
and Joel is basically the entire ethos of Joel. Joel's
entire character is I'm.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Gonna do it right.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I'm gonna do the right thing in the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And Ellie blows up the spot. He's like, that's not true.
Eugene wanted to see you. He begged for his life.
He was very fucking scared. Joel promised that he would
be able to come back and say goodbye to you,
and then Joel lied and shot him. Gail is shocked.
She slaps Joel. It is crazy that that. Gail is
(22:11):
then has to be Joel's therapist months later.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
No crazy, no, no, no, no, Joe, just speak to
your brother, speak to anyone else, babe, Like speak to
Maria like no, please.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
This is I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
But maybe the craziest thing Joel has ever done is
to walk up to Gail with a bag of weed
that Eugene grew in his grow house and be like, hey,
I want to talk about my daughter. Let's let's not
address the elephant in the fucking room.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Joel plays, Joel, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
My guy and and Jackson, please take this burden off
off of Gail. Train up some find some folks who
are good at speaking to other people, and let's get
some of this burden off of Gail.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
She should not have this kind of workload.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I love my therapist. I love therapy. It works. I'm
pro therapy.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
But look you you people in this town that are
teaching people to do like fucking the most intricate electrical stuff,
teaching people to be plumbers.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Shit, you like you can teach someone to just listen
to someone listen. This is not a lot of time.
It's just the listening. You don't it's not difficult. They
don't need to like give you a.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Diagnale doesn't time like Gail does it drunk, like any
twenty year old is going to be better at this
than Gail, Like please, please don't.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
By the way, I'm not, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I don't say that to besmirch the skills in the
craft of Earth of the Therapist.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Incredible work.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
But you know, like it's in this hellituation Jackson, and
(24:15):
we're back.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's New Year's Eve.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
It's nine months later after fucking Joe.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Why was he having therapy with her? Like at least
way a year?
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Like please, I love Like I do want men to
get therapy, but like, how about a man gets therapy
that doesn't traumatize the therapist because you killed the husband, Like,
come on, guys, come on.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
And then give her and then pay her was her
husband dead husband's weed?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
And she's like this isn't even as good as Eugene's weed.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
It's like I know that he stole that from there.
He's just not as good at growing it. I would
also say, as well, like this is the.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Maria and Tommy problem you guys are trying to live.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
You know.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Let's go back to the earliest episodes of this season,
when Jason s an iconically good line that I got
a lot of messages about which is like Jackson is
making socialism look bad, guys. And this is another one
of those moments where I'm like Maria and Tommy, You're like,
you gotta be more realistic about the interpersonal connections between
these people.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
You cannot just let Mats murderer Joel who.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
You know, even without knowing about SLC, you know that
this man has a history of being a smuggler, a criminal.
You can't just expect him to a forget that. But
also then you can't expect other people whose impacts or
who are impacted by his actions.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
To just sit around and like take it. Like now
I think post.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
This, I immediately went back and watched Gail interacting with
him in that first therapy scene and.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Like that, like that, I'm sorrying you are like the abs.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
The way that she builds in every single bit of
what we see here, it's just like so fucking good.
She's so great. But yeah, let's give her a break, please.
It was only nine months, Like, yeah, that's insane.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
At least one though, Joel is sitting with Tommy and
Maria and Tommy Maria's kid. Joel is obviously quite pensive
and sad and down, and Maria tries to lift him
up by basically saying, you know, thank you for everything
you've done. I'm sorry that I called you a refugee earlier.
That was unkind, but you know, on behalf of not
(26:28):
just Tommy and me, but the community.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And then the thing with Seth happens. Joel gets up
deck Seth and we have that whole argument. We go
to later. Joela is on the porch playing guitar.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
You're gonna cry.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Ellie comes out to see him. They make small talk.
At first, he's drinking coffee. You don't want to know
what I traded for the coffee beans, but they're okay.
Blah blah blah. Joel asks about Dina. Is that your girlfriend? Now?
Ellie's like, no, that was just one kiss. I don't
know why she did that. And then Joel here's that
moment where he tries to hand out the fig hand
(27:05):
out the peace offering, you know, to basically say.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Hey, I'm cool.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
With it, you know, like, yeah, that's the person you
want to be with, Like I'm fine with that. And
then Ellie launches into questions about Saltwake.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
And this is I just want to say, like This
is a change from what Ellie has been telling people
and what we have seen of the last moment they
were together. We saw a version where she just walked
past and never got to see him and never got
to have a conversa.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
To Jesse.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
So this is kind of a huge moment of discovery
here and again just shows that these two together, There
were moments here like I know that poor Bella, just
like you know, poor Caitlin have had to put up
with like nonsense from people about casting and video games
and blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
There are moments in this seat.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Once with the lighting and the way that Bella acts
and the small kind of micro emotions on their face,
there were multiple moments where I was like, I almost
cannot tell this is not in the video game, like
it visually looked so similar, and obviously the emotional kind
of heart and truth of this moment is like so huge.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
But yeah, I mean, it's time you got to talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
So she says lie to me, and that's it. We're done.
Our relationship is over.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
And he can tell she's telling the truth, the.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Truth, right, And she asks him like, was it raiders
that killed those people? Or was it you did was
did they really give up on the cure? Were there
really other immune people? And he admits it all with
a shake of his head, that it was all eyes.
And then he admits that he killed everyone in that
(28:53):
facility because they were making a cure that would have
killed her, and she blows up. That was my purpose,
She says, like that was the reason. If I was
going to die to save to create a cure that
would save the world, that would have been my choice.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Everybody.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
It would have given my life, meaning like, and then
we wouldn't all be in this situation.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
You took that away from me. You stole that from me.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Look, I'm not I'm not trying to be a Joel
apologist here, okay, because demanded do her like a mass murder,
and the show did a really good job of showing
how horrific it was. But I do think, like when
she asks him, could they have made a cure and
he says yes, I feel like, actually, I'm like, you
don't know that, Like that look like.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Some fucked up duty old room.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
I gotta say, I think I think more plausible deniability
for Joel here, But I appreciate that he's trying to
take full like he's trying to take full accountability for everything.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
We've talked about this, and I do want to say
that I think the Firefly has made a mistake, Like
why are we Yeah, Like, first of all, you've got
to be This is again all about clearly communicating to
people as if they are adults, to let them know
what the situation is, especially when it pertains to life
(30:11):
and death, their life and death. And I think that
with the Fireflies, one should have been clear about that.
Right now, we don't know how to do this without
killing the person one and two?
Speaker 1 (30:24):
What's the fucking run? Like, can't you figure out a
way to do it? Yeah, let's figure out like different
ways that we could do it without killing.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Blood fust See what that tells us?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I know it's crazy to be like, well, we have
to kill the one person you can, there's no other
way to do it.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
As well, I'm like, guys, you're gonna kill the one
immune person you've ever found there was no other immune people.
Doesn't sound Also, it's not like you know what I
gotta be. Look, this is I just want toone to know.
I am generally like a chill person. I don't advocate
for just killing people. But why didn't you just snipe
Joel the moment Ellie was over like under like that
(31:04):
to me is like, you guys high at this man.
He got the girl here somehow across the country, Like
but you think that he's just gonna leave, Like no,
well were you gonna give him? What do they even
give him? Like nothing, like it's no, no silly plan.
But anyway, all that side, he finally admits the.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
True He admits it, and he admits that he knows
that this was wrong what he did, and he knows
that somehow he will pay a price for this, but
that despite all of that, which again incredible acting by Pedro,
because when Abby reveals, when it's revealed that they're there
(31:46):
for him, but before he knows what it's about, he
knows what it's about, like yeah, you know, telling his
face that he's like, fuck, they caught up with me.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
This is it.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
But he's so.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Joel says that despite the fact that he knows that
this was a term of crime and that it will
catch up to him someday, he says he would do
it again, and Ellie's like, because you're selfish, and Juel's like, no,
because I love you in a way that you can't
you can't understand and you'll never understand.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
And he doesn't call back to the dad.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Yeah, he says, you know, I just hope that you
will do a bit better than me, you know, if
you have a kid, which I'm just like, first of all,
don't take that from your dad who was beating you,
and you did.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Not learn any good lessons for am because this is like,
this is a crazy thing to say to someone after.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Family secrets are crazy, like and you signed out crazy bro,
and so this is like one of the worst. This
is like the dystopian version.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
It is such a good point.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Actually, everybody I think has the version of that in
your family where you find out something that has been
buried for years and years and years and it's like this,
you know yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
And I think, like that's a really big moment.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
But also I think this achieved one of those things
that you know, I get a lot when I'm watching
a show that I love where it's like when she
was like, because yourself is I was like, no, because
he loves you, and then he said it.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
You know, It's that kind of engagement. But then this
is the most heartbreaking moment. It's like just before we
leave them.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
So Ellie says that she doesn't know if she can
forgive Joel, but that she's willing to try to do.
And we fade to black and the sound of rain,
and when we fade back, Yeah, it's nighttime. Ellie is
returning to the theater in Seattle, and she's thinking about
(33:34):
clearly thinking about all of this is on her mind
as she walks back to the theater in the rain.
Incredible episode of the Last of Us program. I wish
we had ten episodes so that I have a bottle
or a Jesse bottle or an Abbey bottle.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
This is the kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Maybe season three we'll give us more of that.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, because this is the kind of thing that elevates
it from being the Walking Deadly No, I.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Think, but I think you're right. I think that's absolutely fair.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Okay, where do we end up in episode seven? And
any predictions for where we go? I mean, clearly we're
not gonna.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
The entire game, which they which they'd always said, but
actually I have to say I felt like they were
moving through the game so quickly they will did. What
do I think we'll see? I think we'll have a
check check in back with Abby. I think we will
probably see Ellie kill another one of that group. I
(34:38):
would love if they kind of surprised us with some
more Ellie Dina time. I'm guessing we'll get from the
kind of nature of the show and the season so far,
I'm guessing we'll get some kind of do w Lf
and Scars check ins. I'm interested to see if we
get more Isaac, like more Jeffrey Wright, get to kind
(34:59):
of know a little bit more about him.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
I wonder how it.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Sets up the stage for season three, because they're game wise.
Unless it's like a lot, lot, lot lot of action,
there's not like a huge amount that we necessarily have
to go through. So I'm very interested to see how
season three expands on that until we get to to
that moment in which we kind of the Abby and
(35:26):
and Ellie showdown. So yeah, I honestly I am kind
of flummoxed because I do feel like I don't know
one hundred percent where they're necessarily going to go. But
I'm open and willing to see what are your like
top three things you think will get.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I think we will get reunion with Tommy and Jesse
and Ellie. I I would expect I think that that
will be a minor part of it and that we
will mostly be with Abby. I think that will She'll
(36:07):
we're going to see the ripple effects of the death
of one of her friends, Nora, and we're going to
see maybe her relationship with Owen.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
I was gonna say, I feel like Owen is likely
to be the next one to so I think they've
got to build a bit more on the two of
them to make that have the impact that yeah, we'll
need to have.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
But whatever the case, I think we're going to be
WLF centric next episode and kind to kind of set
up the you know, this feeling of doom, of impending
doom that's that's coming.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
You make a good point.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Actually, we could even just go directly to after Nora's death.
That feels like kind of how the show would go see,
you know how, because how will they find out with
her being down in the spores And obviously we know
there are certain kind of creatures that we are thing
to see before the end of this season.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Because I think that there's.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
As a person who watches every like this is what
three thousand hours of the last of US two super
cut looks like when people are just like Ellie John wicking,
like through good Seattle, like muck. I think there's I
wonder if season three, for a portion of it isn't
going to be almost a horror movie where Ellie is
(37:27):
the monster, because you know, wow, that could.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Be really, really effective if they translate that feeling from
the finale of season one to Ellie and season two
and kind of.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Just going on a rampage while Abby and her friends
are like, oh my god, like hap should we have
killed this girl? How do we stop her? She's like
killing everyone we love. I think that could be really powerful.
But I'm excited. I you know this is this episode
was a killer and I can't wait to see how they.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Follow it up.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Like this just elevated the material that they have. I
completely agree with you. They it did a wonderful job
of marrying camera angles and setups and dialogue from the
video games, but expanding those scenes so that there are
other more surprising, more deep parts of those scenes. And Yeah,
(38:23):
when this show is hitting on all cylinders as this
episode was.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Maybe.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
At its finest prestige.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Okay, on the next few episodes of x ray Vision.
We're celebrating the forty fifth anniversary of the Empire strikes Back.
Whoa Oh, and the twentieth anniversary Oh my God a Revenge,
and then preparing for the final journey of Ethan hunt
for our Mission Impossible. The final reckoning preparation shows. That's
(38:53):
it for this episode, Extra Listening. Convicted x ray Vision
is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie Knight and is
a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bai wag.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our discord moderator.
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.