October 21, 2024 • 59 mins
This is the Gigante podcast now! Jason and Rosie curl up in bed with their moms to recap episode 5 of The Penguin. Then they’re joined by costume designer Helen Huang to break down the incredible fits in this show.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for The Penguin episode five Homecoming,
so watch that before you listen to this. Hello. My
(00:24):
name is Jason Cepcion and I'm Wedsday Night and welcome
back to x Ray Vision of the podcast where we
dive deep but dear favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.
Coming you from iHeart Podcast, where we're bringing you two
episodes a week every Tuesday and Thursday. Sometimes three, I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Gonna say sometimes we get a third extra episode on Wednesdays.
In today's episode, in the Airlock, we are talking about
another fantastic episode of The Penguin.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Did you think it could get better after episode four? Well,
guess what it does.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It does, and we have a delightful interview with costume
designer Helen Hwang.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
But first the.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Elop episode five of The Penguin Homecoming, Rosie. This show
just keeps getting.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Better, it really does.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
This is astonishingly great, coming after one of the best
episodes of TV of the year, which was one O
four with Sofia's origin, and I just had no idea
how they could follow that up in a way that
a would make you care about Oz again and B
would give Sofia the airtime she needed to let her
(01:32):
story breathe, and it did both, and I'm honestly just
so excited about it.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Let's start. We start the morning after Vic's escape with
Oz from the clutches of the Maronis, after his entire
scheme got burned in front of Sofia. His scheme got burned,
so Oz is burning up his beautiful plumb as roddy.
He sets fire to it, all the while reminiscing with
(02:02):
Vic about a gentleman named Rex.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Caliber we first had him talk about in the pilot.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
That's right. Apparently, Rex, an inspiration to a young Oz,
had a wonderful gold Cadillac that that Oz clearly uh
thinks of as success. That's success, having a really nice car.
As he as his car burns up, he says, end
of the end of an era, Vic asks, Okay, what
(02:31):
about Sophia?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Now?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
What does this means? Don't worry about what about the car?
Don't worry about Sophia. Here's what Oz loves. Oz loves
that Vic showed loyalty forget about an the little.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Wobble like, don't worry about it, don't work, smashed the
car in or something for me saved my life. So
it's us.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I love it. This is forget about everything else. It's
you and me and Nick. Some bear henchman show up
some guys that used to work for the for the
Drops operation that Oz was running. Low level, very street
level guys. They show up in a van and Oz says, Hey,
I'm cutting you in on the new drug distribution deal,
(03:17):
but first we got to take care of the Maronis.
How well. Taj Marony, scion of the Maroni family, just
happens to be addicted to social media. The guy and
he's an idiot. The guy is posting his location. We're
gonna go get him, which, by the way, I'll say
(03:38):
as a as a is a thing that happens in
La Guys get God because they post their location and
then and then not realizing that the streets are real
and they will get God. That way that happens.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
He's doing the other classic like not realizing the streets
are real situation, which is like he's like boasting about
how high is like the Maroney's a coming back baby,
Like you're gonna get as a baby.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
You don't. You ain't got a juice. You ain't got
the juice.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So Taj is at the tattoo parlor getting.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
His It's like a ben Affleck Phoenix, which I was like,
is this unbelievable, Like this can't be a coincident.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And he's wearing his noise cancing headphones, so he does
not hear. Oz's guys take out everybody in the place
and let me just say, whatever brand those are banging apple,
I need him.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Because like five gunshots, like taking out headphones that they
could ever have.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Vic runs in, punches Taj a bunch of times in
the face. They take him away. Oz goes to black
Gate with the Proof of life little polaroid picture of
Taj all tied up. OZ makes a deal with Nadia
and Salvatore drugs for the sun. It's very simple, give
me the shroom, I give you the kid. The handoff
(05:02):
is set for the next morning. Not He is like,
I don't trust Oz.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
She should yeah correct.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
On his way out, Oz pays a guard to do.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I'm usually like, I can no bad choice, idiot. Move.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
On the way out, he looks up, he sees a
TV news report All the Falcons are dead. Sophia the
loan survivor at Falcone manor so Via is surveying the carnage.
The cops are everywhere. They're you know, they're EMTs everybody.
They're bagging up the bodies. The chief police comes over
(05:41):
and he's asking about the kind of kind of a
kind of a lucky break. This ghas leak taking out
the entire Falcone family and somehow you survive in the
in the greenhouse, She's explaining, you know, there's a big
argument Luca's wife, something about Luca's wife, and so I
went to go with some peaceful nights sleep in the
(06:01):
in the greenhouse. What he thinks the whole thing is fishy,
the chief of police. She shuts him down, wondering why
the chief of police would come out here himself to
investigate something like this, see you worried about your payoffs? Like,
what's your problem? He's insists he's just doing his due diligence,
and he walks away, clearly honestly looking to see, hey,
(06:23):
are the payments going to continue? Is the relationship going
to continue? Sophia goes off.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
He's like, whs Johnny vee And she's like, oh, I
think that had something to do with Luca's wife.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Maybe he left, you know, like Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I was just looking off to my niece or my
cousin in the greenhouse.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So Sophia goes to the family crypt, where she has
Johnny Vett bound and chain in his tighty tidy grays.
They're not whities, but they're tight, tight, little Or. She
wants Ved to show her where the cash is. He knows, Listen,
my you know, uh, my dad and Luca probably had
a bunch of cash hidden around the man or somewhere
(07:02):
like yeah, like like Tony Soprano with the duck feed.
You know, remember when he had the cash and that
duck feed. Vidi says, listen, if you're gonna kill me,
just kill me, just get it over with whatever. She's like, No,
we're not going to do that. I'm going to keep
you down here in the dark and the very very cold,
frigid crypt. I'm gonna pour water on you, and we're
(07:23):
gonna wait till you break. Meanwhile, Oz's crew is at Eve's.
They've got they've got taj hold up at Eve's. They're
all watching the news wondering, uh what the death of
all the foul Clones means for them. Oz is like,
don't worry, about it to the guys, and then he
goes to Eve and he says, don't worry about it.
(07:44):
Eve's like, listen, they know my girls. They know my
girl's face because they were working to deal bliss at
the club. They know that. They're all involved.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
And Nowes and.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
The Maronis and Sofia and yeah, Sofia's into my house,
like what is going on? Like, you got to fix this.
He's like, don't worry, I'll fix it. Meanwhile, uh, you know,
Taj is just in there with a bag on his
head and those noise canceling headphones, so don't worry. He
can't hear a thing. He's still got the noise canceling
headphone over the bag.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah, him, I wonder what the playlist is.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Oz talks to his guys. He says, listen, don't worry
about the fuck cast. They never made us. They never
they never shared the wealth with us. With them out
of the way. Now, all we got to do is
take down to the Maroney's. This is going to be
actually easier now. And he's like, go get ready for
the handoff of Taj. He gives Vic a separate, very
(08:38):
sensitive job. He says, go upstate, Go get mom, and
you need to watch over. Sophia is down in the
crypt and she's just like teasing and trolling VD and
talking about all those kinds of shit, wondering when he's
gonna break and give up the goods. But instead, Ved
tells her that you know, on the night that your
(09:01):
father killed your mother, your mom was about to leave.
That's why he called her. She was gonna take off.
She had her bags packed, she was gonna flee with
you and the kids. I had a car ready for
I was gonna help her because she was my cousin.
But she didn't show up, and that's how I knew
she was dead. Sophia doesn't believe him. Ved then says, listen,
(09:22):
I feel tremendous guilt again. She was my cousin who
I loved very dearly. I introduced them, so I feel
like this is my fault. And then he makes his pitch.
He says, the money's not enough, Sophia, it's not enough.
You need the guys, you need the muscle, you need
the man power. I can get that for you through me.
(09:45):
I can pitch you as boss and get a sit
down with all the gang. I couldn't help your mother,
he says, but I can help you, Vic. I mean,
it's a strong hit.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
DoD B.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Listen, fuck everybody in this show. They're all terrible. But
like you know, it's a good pitch and we'll see
where it goes. Vic goes to Mom's and the place
is a mess. Clearly, uh, she is spiraling down. It's
unclear if she's been taking her meds. The stove is on,
the fridge is open. This place looks in a state
(10:22):
of very bad repair. She's in the back bedroom and
for a second she thinks that Vic is Oz, or
or if not Oz, maybe one on the broad because
she's got she's got the baseball glove out and we
know that wasn't Oz. Oz couldn't play baseball obviously, but
but she's clearly reminiscing about those old days. Vic introduces, no,
(10:47):
I'm Vic, and her demeanor becomes cold and business like,
and she's like, what do you want. We realize also
that Mom has been falling a lot. She's covered in bruises.
Mom Cob wants to know what's going on Oz, what's
up to and Vic gives her the update. Oz is
facing off against the Maroneys. The falconies are gone down,
(11:07):
taken out by down on their knees. Guess who took
them out? It was Oz.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
I think this is a good move by Vick, honestly,
because this woman, it's nice, give us something to celebrate.
She might not remember tomorrow that you told her this,
so like, just yeah, let her enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
And she does celebrate. She is like, she's like, she's
loving it. She's she's loving it.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
She's like, get the fuck out of here, really, and
Vic's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's why I'm here because
OZ sent me to, you know, take care of you.
And she is thrilled. Meanwhile, the Oz, the guard that
OZ bribed, goes into Maroni's cell and fucking stabs them
right in the guts and says, foolishly, I think, yeah,
(11:52):
very stupid, this is from OZ and stabs them in
the gut.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Can I just say higher a taller prison God, have
you seen Clantcy Brown?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
That man is built like a fucking brick wall. He's
so tall.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
As soon as you have and you use the Kurgan
in Highlander, don't forget this guy.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Like this man, I see this tiny little prison guard
joking him with a little like what looks like a
homemade shank, and I'm like, this ain't gonna go well
for anyone.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
It's like sell, second of all, you you're a prison guard.
You've been working here. You know how it goes. You
don't just you can't just stick it in. And yeah,
once you gotta go, you gotta multiple times. You got
to perforate the guy.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
The prison is clearly corrupt.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
We've seen that from the fact they let Salmaroni just
have his like little meetings with his with his wife
and his crew and everything.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So like, couldn't you just like smuggle in a weapon.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
I feel like you didn't need to use like a
small shank, and you could have also, like you said,
perforate the man, Like come on.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
You just what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
What are you doing?
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Man?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Oz goes to the meet with Taj Uh and Nadia.
Nadia is there with one bodyguard as agreed upon. Oz
brings Taj and one of his previous drops, Operation hen Cheese.
He's uh, Taj is dripping wet, soaking wet in his
under He's soaking wet and and and you're thinking that's right,
(13:23):
and you so you're thinking, oh water like Johnny VD we'll.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Get boarding like some kind of torture.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I was like, where are the shrooms. They're over there
across the room, bagged up. It's like on the back
of a pickup truck. As soon as Oz sends Taj
over to Nadia, who wraps her arms around her son,
it's the double cross happens, and here comes the gunman
out of a side door. So the gunfight breaks out.
(13:53):
Oz and his guy take out the gunman, and then
Oz sets he lights his life and we realize that
that that Taj is drenched in gasoline or kerosene or something,
and they they go up and flames mother and son
and they and they die. It's terrible. They crumple to
the ground. Watches but truly horrific.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
It's hard cool man, he's like crazy.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
But the fire sets off.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
The fire makes sense, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And and as that like whatever that stuff is that
powdery likes, you know, flame retardant substance comes out. It
sprays all over the shrooms, and Oz, remembering how sensitive
the shrooms are, like cover up the trunk. They get
out of there. They get in the in the pickup truck,
(14:44):
bust through the door. As the police is do do
do doa da.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Wow wow the time of the police.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yes, Oz, you know, they drive a little bit away.
Oz goes and looks at the shrooms and guess what.
The flame retardan stuff wrecks all the ship just like.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
That, almost like frozen.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
They're just just crumbling gone, and Oz is like, fuck
except for two buckets of shrims. Who covered up? That's it.
That's all he's got is to two buckets of shrims.
The Sal calls while this is going on, and also
Oz picks up and goes, tell me something good.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So you can't even pretend like someone else set up
that you make him look bad like he he's just
admitted that he tried to have Sal killed and sounds like, bro,
I'm alive, I'm alive.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I guess your guy's dead. Your guy's dead. And guess what,
I'm out of jail. And then he says and I'm
never gonna stop looking for you. Oz. You're cook And
Austen says, oh, I've cooked. That's interesting because I just
cooked your wife And sudden.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
What Carl, what the I could my jaw dude draw?
And Barrel's little face when when when? When Maroney said like, oh,
(16:13):
you're cooked. His little face is like really like I cooked.
It's like, oh you are?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
You are in trouble, bro I that was so.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Incredible, right, I could not believe it. Oz calls Vic
because like, your mom is fine, she's just sleeping. Oz
is like, listen, the heat is on. Now, Okay, there's
gold hidden in the house. Take it, take her meds,
get mom out of there anywhere that's they won't look
for her. I don't have a place, I don't have
(16:43):
a backup place. You're just gonna have to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I feel like, oh, I feel like this is a
weak spot in oz Is planning. It's like he literally
sleeps behind a giant safe door. I feel like he
should have had a couple of other like safe houses
or plans.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But you know what, he's really piecy. He's a man.
He plays it. He's playing it by aa.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
He's playing it by ear. And you make a good point.
But I think this is this shows you that oz
Oz was on the come up. He's put he's invested
everything he has into making this move. The Maserati's gone.
He can't go back to his apartment, where one would
assume he's got some guns and money stashed. He's got
(17:25):
like just what's in his pocket right now and the
gold from the mom's house. Like he's really just like hustling. Yeah, uh,
and we're hustling as well. We'll be right back after
a word from these from our sponsors. Sophia is h
(17:59):
goes to the aster closet where Carmines clothes and her
mom's clothes are still hidden up. She's smelling her mom's scent,
trying to get a whiff of moms sent Doctor Rush
comes in. What the fuck is doctor Rush doing here?
He says, listen to this crazy bitch, this little bitch.
But let's be honest, Sophia needs a little bit right now.
(18:20):
She needs she needs, she needs a bitch with a
fucking collar around his neck. And doctor Rush.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
She's like, I'm gonna be that bitch.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Doctor Rush comes in, sits up and says, wolf Wolf, Wolf,
I will do whatever you want. What do you want? Master?
And honestly that's appealing to Sophia right like he missed,
you know, I'll do I'll do as told. Sophia comes
downstairs wearing her Mafia queen costume, big fur coat which
(18:50):
was Bomb's.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
And Isabella Jigante in the side.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
She goes to meet the gang. Here's all the street
level guys. This is not the maid guys, not the Coppos,
this is the street guys. VD is there. He's called
all these guys together, and she sits at the head
of the table with VD at her right hand, and
she says, let's get it ei of the way. I
killed everybody. I killed Luca, I killed Luca's wife killed.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
I love you so much.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
This is such a everybody. All the Coppos they're gone,
now gone, fuck them. And here's what I have to
offer you. A come up. My family threw me away
like a piece of garbage. And that's what they would
have done to you, because they never were gonna make you.
You're not gonna be made guys. You were gonna be
cannon fodder. I'm not gonna treat you like that. We're
gonna make peace with the Maronis. I'm not gonna waste
(19:44):
your lives in some senseless war with the Maronis, and
we're gonna take over this town. And Vid he's like, well,
the Bardi, we do have to take out the Maroni's no,
and then she just fucking blows up, she shoots them
in the face, shoots Jonathan baked zd ved below. This
is fucking Marinera's sauce all over the table, Bob. And
(20:07):
then like pat Riley making his pitch to Lebron when
he threw the championship riggs on the table, she gets
the bag of money that Johnny bakes Z DVD got
her and she tumps it on the table and she says,
my family never shared the falcon The Falcone family never
(20:28):
shared with you. Well, guess what. Its not the Falcone
family anymore. It's the Giganti family, my mother's name. And
in the Giganti family, we shared a wealth. Guys take
the money in there, they agree they're part of it.
And doctor Rush is back there at the back of
the room and he is bricked up. Let me tell
(20:48):
you he is like he's like woof, woof, wolf rolls
over on his back and he's like pet me on
the belly. So he I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
This is definitely, like really interesting because in the comics
she is Sophia Gigante at some points, but that's to
do with who she marries. So I like here that
they make it about her mom and it's this kind
of like reclamation from Carmine.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Very cool.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I'm very interested to see where this doctor Rush thing
goes to.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Could be really interesting to see. But yeah, great scene.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
This is actually gonna be my Halloween costume this year
because I love Sophia Falcony and I want to wear
a big fake fo coat.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Vic takes Mom Cob to Crown Point because Crownpoint, which
we get to see as he pulls in, is in
a fucking state. Yeah, it's a it is.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
They have not over nothing, nothing, Fema.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Oh does not dare set foot in this way like
it is dangerous. Squid is out in the streets doing
crime out and the open cars turned over like a
storefront's wreck. It's bad here. Yeah, and I think Vic
kind of wisely understanes. Nobody's gonna look for you here.
Viccy's Squid and he's like, Mom Cob, just come on,
(22:04):
hurry up. We gotta get inside before Squid.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Start this nerve wracking moment, like Squid spots them, Yeah,
because you're watching them and they're sneaking behind him and
he's smoking a cigarette and it's like you're in Arkham
in the games and you're trying.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
To like sneak around the city. But then just as
Vic is kind of finally managing to get her through
the door, Squid sees him. Obviously, this is gonna and bad.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
It's gonna be a problem. This is gonna come back
on them. Mom Cob hates the east Side, hates, does
not like this shithole. It reminds her of her own past.
She raised her sons in this very same neighborhood, not
far from here, in a place that looks just like this.
(22:50):
And then she says something that I think Vic feels
it really resonates with him. He says, she says, this
neighborhood will take everything from you.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Osgar to Eves, He's he's fucking panicked. He is a mess.
He's like, it's time to lamb out. We gotta get
out of here. We gotta go to the ground. I
got a spot by the zoo, by the zoo, I
got a spot by the zoo that nobody knows about.
We can lamb out there. And he was like, are
you fucking crazy? I got my business, I got the girls.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
She can see that. It's like it's time to let
go of She's like to do this.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Oz loses it you turn on me. This is it.
I thought it was gonna beat you would be. And
she knows Eves a smart cookie, she knows exactly how
to soothe his egos.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
I love this moment. She's just baby, No like you.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
First of all, you're gonna come out on top. Everybody
knows that you're smart. But I'm just gonna be slowing
you down right now. You need to make moves, and
you can't make moves trying to trying to watch out
for me. And this this steadies Oz and he's able
to go out and and uh, you know, head head
back out and check on Meanwhile, Maroni is hold up
(24:01):
somewhere out in the woods in a cabin, like in
a fucking unibomber style.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Oh yeah, yeah, like eating some fucking cold Italian food.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Cold, fucking he's like crying. Chef Boyard straight of the
can and he's like, look at it, a picture of
his recently cooked wife and son. They're they, you know,
they at least are warm. Not this Chef boy Ard.
Out of the can. He's and he's he's crying, he's
weeping in the gun shouts outside and here's Sofia. Sophia
(24:34):
says this sucks, Right, I got something better. How about
you and me against Oz? We take him down? Yeah,
peace in our time?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Did you Gantes and the Maronis together?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Why keep this going? Like what's the fucking point? Like
you hate my dad? I hate my dad.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I hate my dad, and I'm in charge now. And
it's not the Falcones. You had a problem with the Falcones.
You don't have a problem with me. We're the candies.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
And also as want to like, guess what, Oz, he's
betrayed us both, he's made it. Let's just let's just
do it up, baby, and mister crabs Clancy Brown, he's
looking at her and he's thinking about it, and it's like,
sounds like that could be potential here.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
That's right. Oz goes to the hideout and Crown Point
and he Vic is asleep. He creeps past Vic and
he creeps into bed with Mom.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
And getting into bed with your mom.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Feelings cuddling. He needs emotional support right now, and he
insists to mom Cobb this is temporary. We're only just
hiding out here. But we're good. We're on the come up,
I promise you, And she says you're a big dreamer,
like your daddy says, no, I'm not like him. We
don't know what happened, but clearly it was not good,
(25:44):
and Mom Cob is like, get off me. Vic wakes
up and is apologetic, but Oz is like that, no, no,
you did good. Bringing her here was smart. I get
where you're coming from. Vic then asks about the brothers.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Which implies I think that, like mom Cobb has kind
of been talking about him. Yeah, and it's interesting because
we see this disconnect between Oz and his mom in
this episode, but I do think they hint that her
and Vicker getting close up. I also think it's really interesting,
like we see that whether it's illness or whether it's
just who she is, she is like quite cruel, Like
(26:21):
OZ says to her, like I feel like I let
you down, and she's like you.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Did you did? Like she is obviously not a loving,
like carrying woman.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Oz basically says the city took my brothers. Whether that
means like child protector services or the streets, it's kind
of unclear, right, yeah, but and us kind of ruse
the weakness that he had it that you know, that
kind of marked him at the time. He wasn't he
was wasn't strong enough to do anything about the brothers.
(26:51):
Oz then takes this reminds Oz of something, and he
takes Victor an abandoned trolley station that his him, my
brothers used to have fun in, and you know immediately
as they go down there, this is it. This is
gonna be.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
The penguins hideout.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
It's humid, it's kind of dripping with water.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Perfect, it feels like it's giving at least a little
of the timber, and Batman returns very much kind of
under the zoo. I also love this because we've so
often in this show the focus has been on grounding,
even though where we're having people like gas their own families, Like,
there's outrageous stuff, but it's definitely in that grounded world.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
And I love these moments in the Matt.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Reeves Batman Epic Crime Universe or whatever they're calling it, Like,
I love these moments where we get the hints of
the comic book origins, like the lair, and the lair
is in the old trolley system, and obviously it's wet
and warm down there, so perfect to grow some mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
It's also a perfect I mean, you mentioned it, and
I thought of I thought this myself. It's Oh, you
think I'm going to the zoo. No, this is a
separate thing. I'm in different Oz, I'm a different penguin.
This is a different story and I love that. Yeah.
And so there's a working generator out there. They get
the lights on and they're going to grow the shrooms here.
(28:16):
This is going to be ground zero for the penguin operation.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And they're little like you can just see in this moment,
they've got this little fire between them, like, oh, it's
working where they can happen, like things can happen for us.
And I'm just like, guys, it's got them, guys, it's
never gonna go Well, so you've seen the end.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I have not.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
No, no, I have not seen the end.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
No, no, No, it's just Joellen Common, Just Joellen Common.
We're playing. So I've only seen.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
This is a perfect point, at a turning point. Three
episodes to go hit. We've hit that kind of turning
point in the story where Oz is at his lowest
and he can only build up from here. Predictions where
do you think this story goes?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I think that Oz does get the shrooms going. I
think that's going to be successful for him. I think
that we're going to end the season with Oz in
a place where he can be a true villain for.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
The Batman too. I think he's going to be a
major player.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I think I hope that whatever happens between Sophia and sal,
I want Sophia to be in The Batman too.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I think that Christin Melotti.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Is so fantastic and I just absolutely adore her and
want to see more of that character. And I think
having Sophia as the main crime boss fighting against Oz
would be incredible.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
So that's more of like a what I want.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I am not feeling great about Victor's chances of survival.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
I love him, I feel, I said, very very sadly,
especially because very very very sadly, I mean sadly say
with Rerenzy Phillies, he's so fantastic you just want more
of him in this world.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
But they released a poster recently that, obviously, to people.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Like us, is supposed to be evocative of Jason Todd,
and we've already talked about how much of a Robin
he feels like this character could be.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I would have loved to see that transition for him.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Maybe I think he's kind of in a Tim Drake mold,
but I doubt that will happen. And they released a
poster where it was Vic and then his shadow had
somebody behind him holding a tire iron. Now, somebody pointed
out vic dad was a mechanic, so maybe it's to
do with that, but I think that that is evocative
of Jason Todd and they want us to know where
this could go. And also, many moons ago, when the
(30:50):
first Batman movie came out, Robert Pattinson said he wanted
to do Robin and Batman, but he wanted Robin to
be like a kid, right like ten eleven twelve. Now
they are saying the rumors abound that they are going
to have a Robin in the Batman too. So I
think it's a very interesting parallel for Penguin to have
had his own sidekick. Yeah, but yeah, I want Vic
(31:13):
to keep going. I love Frenzy. I love this role.
But my gut is saying, especially as they end in
such a like victorious way in this episode where it's
like the two of them together and they're making it happen,
that doesn't bode well for me.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Here's where I feel like we end with Sophia on
top new crime boss in Gotham City, Vic sadly dead.
I feel like the streets need a sacrifice, and the
Penguin established in his headquarters still the scrappy upstart, very dangerous,
(31:54):
but not at the head of any family. Just a guy,
just the peng, a drug lord running his own gang.
I don't know, like does some kind of alliance between
Sofia and the and the Penguin makes sense, some sort
(32:14):
of very very still.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Maybe kind of situation where she's like, as long as
you stay underground, like I won't kill you, you know,
if there's some kind of benefit to that. Okay, So
how far I'm very interested because I love the costuming
in this show and I think it's absolutely just fantastic.
How far do you think that? Do you think will
end this season with like Oz wearing like a tuxedo?
(32:40):
Do you think they're gonna lean into the more visual
aspects of the Penguin as they've kind of leaned into
Sofia's kind of mafia queen.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Look, I don't know. I could see that happening. If
Oz makes a pitch to the like disaffected members of
the Maronis, this is what you want to do. You
want to follow a falcone, She causes, Candy, whatever a falcon,
(33:10):
Give me a fucking break. You're gonna bow to a falcone.
That's what you want to do? Bullshit, Come with me.
Let's get revenge. Now. If if that happens and he
puts himself at the top of like a reconstituted Maroney family,
I could see that. I could see him in the.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Tucks, see him a bit smart, a bit like yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Uh, but I kind of don't think that will happen.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I like, I like, yeah, I'm excited to what happens.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I like your idea of Sophia and Top and Oz
almost is this like underworld crime boss still having to
work his way back to the surface.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, I think this show is awesome.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I need Emmy's costume designer who we speak to on
this episode, Helen Huang Emmys. I need to make up
people to be getting Emmy's Emmy's Emmys.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Like, I don't want to see any of.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
This superhero TV being seen as some kind of underclass
of TV.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
This is such a fantastically made show.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I think it's opening the world up to many other people.
I actually saw that the fourth episode was the highest
viewed episode.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
There's there's a buzz now, like I see people talking
about it. Yeah, I say this, this show makes me
very excited for what the Daredevil board again show could be.
Oh could Oh?
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Also, I like that because this is going to have
to put a fire in their belly.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yes, say, hey we can. We can take it up
a notch in you know, quality wise, drama wise, Like
there is there's a level that can be re by
really kind of doubling down on street level. I feel like,
you know, I liked a lot of the Netflix stuff.
I am a I can't believe we're gonna admit this.
(35:10):
I'm a Defender's apologist. I think The Defenders is good.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Look most like that casting is incredible. I am still.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Here's a problem, there's a I wish we could get
Daughters of a Dragon series.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
I love the Misty casting.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I love what they did with those two characters specifically. Yeah,
I mean, I would love to see like a real
street level Marvel show.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I can't believe that you revealed, but I think The
Defenders is actually there's some it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
I still my dream is that they still will bring Khalei.
I want them to bring the act to play Colleen
back and have her be I am. I think that
Jessicamwick should be brought back and be iron fist. I
think that would be like such a good casting awesome. Yeah,
so I'm like, let's do that. But yeah, I agree
(36:11):
with you. They've they've touched on what can be great
about Street Level. But I hope it's a fire in
their belly as I believe they're still doing reshoots and
kind of reconstituting the show, and I hope it makes
them think like, wow, we can do something that people
are we.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Can we can get really Yeah, we can do something
really really really cool. Well up next or Penguin. Our
conversation with the Penguin costume designer Helen Wang. Helen, thank
(36:50):
you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Oh it's a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, we're so happy to have you here.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
The the costumes in the wardrobe for the Penguin are
just feel so important for giving it a sense of
place and personality. And I think you know one thing
I've noticed from your work and being a fan of
the various shows that you've worked on, including Beef, which
(37:17):
you've recently went on Emmy four and Station eleven. Is
this feeling of a lived in world, like everything looks
like folks have been wearing this stuff. Talk about your approach.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
I always try to first, you know, they send you
the script, but I try to understand the tone of
what I'm doing first. And I have particular things I'm
interested in in costuming, and I try to sink the
two of them up and see if I could bring
that the things I'm interested in into particular projects. And
(37:55):
so in this one, you know, when they set me
the information and when I talk to a little and
the showrunner, it was very much like French Connection Scarface,
you know, clue to those type of seventies references, and
also the movie. I was a big fan of The Batman,
and I just felt it was very cinematic, and those
(38:17):
references are cinematic. And also I feel quite emotional, and
so when I was doing research, I viewed it as
a place without time, and so I looked at a
lot of vintage photographs from Jamal Schebaz to Frank Horvat
(38:40):
to Richard Sandler. So people who like really took pictures
in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. In New York
for sort of the tone of the Gotham that I
wanted to do, and obviously I do want and I
think the lived inness is a couple of things. Obviously,
you need to have enough of crew so you have
(39:00):
a good age you're dher because that's what really matters
at the end, because they have to touch the objects
that you make or bring in. But also I think
the lived in look is more if you find for me,
if it's like when you really find the character, you
find a way to sync up with them, then that's
when the audience really view your work as being organic
(39:22):
and of a place. And of course when you're doing characters,
they have to fit within the world and then that's
the cohesion that you really want. And so that was
my approach. That's my approach to everything and anything, you know.
And then also I look at narrative, you know. For
this particular project, it was very much about institutions and
(39:45):
how institutions fail people and how crime is a way
of people in certain economic circumstances as upward mobility, and
I really identified with that and I really wanted to
show that element and I was very interested in it.
And so you know, those are definitely the type of
(40:06):
themes I think about when I look for images and
when I piece together what I want this world to
look like through clothes.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah, and you kind of you touched on this a
little bit there. But something that I think is really
interesting in this project is that journey of upward mobility
for Oz. Let's say, like, what is it like kind
of taking him from and costuming him from the driver
to the unmade man to the aspiring mob boss, Like,
(40:34):
could you talk a little bit about the changes within
his suit, the things that the untrained I might not notice.
Speaker 4 (40:41):
Well, we actually did go backwards because you know, obviously
that episode where he was the driver was in a
later episode. Yeah, in the beginning when we looked at Oz,
Colin and I talked a lot about how to do
this character so he's not costume, and because he didn't
want him to, he wanted to have a fine line
because obviously, you know, if you're in the Batman world,
(41:04):
there is a certain obligation to be a little bit
larger than life. But we really wanted to walk that line.
And with Oz's suits, I like to think of it
as a contrast to the falcones. So I really viewed
the falcones as institutionalized crime. So I looked at a
lot of European influences for them, and a lot of
(41:28):
sort of old money references from the nineteen sixties of
New York and Manhattan. And then with Oz, we thought,
you know, here was a man who covets style and
really wants that. And then also, I you know, when
I first read him on the pages, I thought, this
guy has a very distinct idea of what masculinity looks like,
(41:52):
and you know what men kind of look like. And
so even from his suits, he has that approach, and
so he doesn't really dress outside of the box, but
he does feel that he only fits into a certain
silhouette to make himself more masculine in this world, and
(42:14):
you know, his suits are reflection of that. So we
had really strong shoulders. If you look at his lapel,
we really looked at how wide his lapel should be,
and if you look at it, it's not a contemporary lapel.
It's more of a nineteen seventies lapel. And we tried
to make him almost like a triangle shape, you know,
an upside down triangle shape, where it's very strong shoulders.
(42:37):
And then because of his physique, he wants to illusion
the eye to narrow down, and so we tailored his
suits closer to the bodies to the when it hits
him at the waist. He has bigger collars to sort
of proportion out his face. And you know, he wears
really pointed shoes even though he has the club foot,
(42:58):
to really give it that elongated element. And so we
really thought about how to subtly make his like how
subtly he would think about his suit, almost overthink his suit.
But then he would come in with these fabrics that
aren't the patterns that falcones would, you know, want to wear,
(43:19):
or the colors that they would want to wear. So
he feels definitely more new money and they feel more
old money. He's a wanna be there already there. They're
like easy elegance. They're like Picasso in Spain. He's like,
you know, try hard, try hard, suit man. And so
we thought a lot about that, and then when we went.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Back to.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
Him as a driver, we made him a really cheap
suit like we got like wool Polly. We made the
lapels really small and modern because he did not have
the money to make those suits. You know, his tie
was from Macy's. We picked the cheapest, yeah, sort of
viscos with you know, his shirt's definitely not cotton, it's
(44:03):
definitely synthetic. And so we tried really hard to sort
of subtly put those elements in. And I did, through
this project, learn a lot about men's tailoring and how
because of certain expectations of men their clothes, the proportions
are very slight and the changes are very slight, and
the fabrication is a big deal. And so you have
(44:26):
to really sort of study that and watch that as
you're putting men next to men and sort of telling
that story.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I wanted to go back to the you mentioned the
age age or dyer I think is the term. Yes,
And I think you know, we we we watched a
lot of TV. Sure you do, and and we've all
had the experience of watching something where it just feels like,
my gosh, it feels like this wardrobe just came off
in the back and they just put it on. So
(44:53):
what technically, what are the technical aspects of creating these
garments so that they look like these characters have been
wearing them for a time.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
Oh my god, good agreed, Dyers are like magicians. You
it's like it's one of It's like having a good
tailor and a good agre dyer and a good buyer
is like one of the three temples of having a
successful project, you know that and a really really good ACD.
But they take your car. So if it's like a
made garment, they will sometimes wash it. If it's washable,
(45:25):
they'll wash it several times to get whatever look they desire.
They paint into them to get a patina of things
that are older. They sand, they you know, they it's
basically alchemy. They have different types of waxes that they
put in there. They put little highlights on clothes and
(45:46):
to look like they've been worn, you know, and the
edges are afraid. You know, if I have an all
black garment that comes in and it needs to look
like someone's wear, they'll spray it with a fine mist
of something that like is a hint of gray. And
then it's like you don't even notice until you put
two garments like together, like if you have multiples, and
(46:08):
you're like, wow, that makes a hell of a difference.
They put rocks in the pockets. They string up the
garments so it'll have it'll have all the folds in
the arms, they'll weigh things down. I mean, it's it's
literally the most amazing thing. They do, all the rolls
on the sweater, so when you view it on screen
it looks like some of them's more. I don't know,
(46:29):
it's it's magic. And then also they die. They die
every fabric to the color that I want when I
want to make something, I cannot speak enough about the
craft and the talent level that goes into something like that.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yeah, it really comes across in a show like this too,
where the clothes talk so loudly about who the characters are,
and I guess what was it like for you? Then
I want to get Sophia, but I'm saving her because
she's just so wonderful. So I want to talk a
little bit about Vic because his costumes are so different.
(47:05):
So when you go to someone like Vic who's meant
to be younger, like he didn't have these aspirations before,
it's just living in what he could take with him
when he disaster happened, how do you show his world
in his clothes.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
And kind of how it changes when he meets Oz.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
So for Vic, I really wanted in the beginning for
him to contrast Oz's very sharp lines and tailoring, and
so we so if Oz is sort of a more
seventies silhouette, we gave Vic a very nineties silhouette, early
nineties silhouette, and we wanted him to feel almost like
(47:50):
he's encompassed and clothes, but also his clothes. He wore
the same outfit for almost the first three episodes, and
so we really try to layer him in a way
that would make sense if he's so if his character
decides to take layers off. Vic is very nostalgic to me,
and so I felt, and also speaking of Oz, he
(48:13):
thinks masculinity is a certain way. Vic does not feel
that he's.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Younger, you know.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
And I also view that he probably has like his
dad's hand me downs that you know, his dad doesn't
wear and he thought it was cool now and things
like that. But I am a big fan of the
nineties starter jacket, I don't.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Know, still a big fig fan.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
So I love them so much, and I love sportswear
in any way, and I feel like they're under they're
underserved in anything of this type of world. It's like
they just forget that there's sportswear or something, and so
we bought a lot of vintage items for him, and
we took the pains to make the starter jacket from scratch.
(48:57):
So everything was from scratch, everything was dyed from ratch.
It took us a millionaires to get the details right,
the fit right. The inside jacket is based off of
an old Fila jacket and that's also made from scratch,
and we made it red so then it's like the
little pop of color. And then also between Oz and Vic,
(49:17):
we did want Vic to feel like there's slightly more
color variation in him, where Oz feels very controlled in
his color palette. And then even on the inside you
don't even really get to see it. But when he's like,
you know, digging the grave for bodies, we made him
we made him a Gotham City basketball shirt. Yeah, and
(49:39):
it was like a face Gotham team, because I was like,
in the real world, kids like that would wear sports
where they would have a basketball team. He would wear that.
It's natural, even like down to you know, you never
see it because he didn't get to that. But like
his tank top was like something that we remade to
(50:00):
resemble like a nineteen seventies tank top. So we did
take so much care with him. And for me, he's
he's a black and brown character in a world of
comic books that deserves a lot of attention and a
lot of care, And I wanted to put as much
research and as much effort into what he wears as
(50:23):
I do a Oz or Sophia. I really felt that
it was necessary.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Let's talk about Yeah, obviously comes from such a hierarchical
world that's divided by gender. Also, yes, talk to us
about what about Sophia's look and the thing that she's
trying to present herself at the different looks that she's shown.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
So with Sophia, I always feel a great, big responsibility
for female characters, especially female characters in a world like this,
because I feel like people have gotten used to how
female carea just look in a world like this. And
for me, it was very much about and you hit
it on the nose, is like, she's a female in
this world, and so the thought was she is dressed
(51:15):
like how they think that she would be dressed, so
her femininity against their masculiness, how you know, like they
use her as a forward, presenting, legitimate phase of their organization,
right you know, she's polished, she does the charity work,
she speaks, you know, she legitimizes them, but she's still female.
(51:39):
But I didn't want to do the traditional sort of
like tight female kind of thing. And you know, some
of those elegant looks feel odd against you know, Kristen
who's younger, who's a younger actress, and they didn't really
give her the oomph that she deserves, you know. And
(52:00):
so I started looking like a lot of images of
Edie Sedgwick from the nineteen sixties, so socialites who have
like a little bit of a rebellious edge. And I
really like the shorter silhouettes because there's something very girly
about the sixties but very rebellious about that time. It's
like femininity but with a wink, you know.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
And then I looked at a series of photographs by
Peter Lindenberg for Harper's Bazaar. The model was Kate Moss
in the nineteen ninety four and it was like nineties
minimalism does Sixties, and I just it like blew my mind,
and I was like, this is it, you know. And
so her first white suit is based off of a
(52:43):
Karage nineteen sixties reference. So we did that for her
because they really wanted her to come in not looking
frazzled or like she just came out of Arkham. They
really wanted her to be contained and like Oz, you know,
doesn't know where her mind's at, that type of unknown
ingnus so really polished, you know, but in an unusual way.
(53:05):
Then as the series progressed, like you know, in the
first episode, she wore like a vintage or Metz trench coat.
We did a lot of vintage shopping for her. I
think seventy percent of her costumes were all vintage, and
then a big portion of it was made, so it
was like made plus vintage, and then we did do
some newer things. But towards the middle, you know, everything
got kind of wild, and so we use like vintage
(53:26):
Marnie things that have a lot more texture. Nineteen sixties
LeMay dresses, the heels got higher. She was not wearing
it and heels any more. You know, before it was
like Selena and Rmez, and towards the end it was
like Marnie in nineteen sixties, you know, rebellious dresses. Towards
the end it was like Vivian Westwood, a lot of
(53:46):
Vivian Westwood and you know, like Drea's van Noten, because
we really wanted to give her, especially in her coats,
to give her huge dimension. So it's almost as if
she's like changing shape in front of.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Growing.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
And then of course in the end, you know, it's
we wanted to do, you know, bookend, iconic non color,
iconic color, you know at the end, and that was built,
that was built from scratch.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Yeah, was there is there a costume?
Speaker 2 (54:18):
So this will be added to episode five, This will
come out when episode when episode five conversation comes out.
So as we move into the last three episodes, is
there a costume.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
That you're really really excited for the world to see.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Is there like a moment that you're you think people
are going to go, oh wow?
Speaker 4 (54:36):
I think the end the end, Yes, the book End
is really really good. But you know, episode five, there
were two outfits in there that no one will ever notice,
but I am extremely proud of. It's when it's when
she talks to the police and she's in a black
T shirt and it's sort of like we had two
palate cleanser outfits in that episode, and that was one
(54:59):
of them. When she was wearing a black T shirt
with leather pants, and it was just such a rocking
different attitude than what she was before. And then the
element of her in the white shirt dress when she's
in her closet that was actually based off of the
Audrey Hepburn breakfast at Tiffany's when when the guy comes
(55:22):
to her door and she turns around and she's like,
please turn around and put on my and you think
she's putting on a rope, but she's not. She's like
actually putting on a men's tuxedo shirt and it was
backwards and we did that for her. But you know,
it's very hard doing palate cleanser like non costume costumes
that actually fit a character. And I'm really proud of
those because it was such a soft but it didn't
(55:43):
take away from like, she didn't become, you know, a
West Hollywood mom for a second, to be simple, you know,
we didn't. We and we kept that like character. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Yeah, So much has been said about collins incredible transformation
through the Penguin Suit. Were there any particular challenges around
designing for that suit.
Speaker 4 (56:12):
I mean, obviously there were a lot of prosthetics and
it was kind of like a moving target, you know,
when there are prosthetics involved, because they do sit differently
from time to time, from day to day. But we
it took us a while to sort of get It's
like he had to put on the full prosthetics the
(56:34):
first couple of times we did the you know, at
least half of his face prosthetics when we were doing
because it leads down to his neck when we were
doing the first couple of wardrobe fittings, and it was
you know, very uncomfortable. I mean, he's amazing because he
never complained ever, but we needed to do that because
or the clothes won't sit right. And we didn't really
(56:56):
sort of understand what we were building in the body
at the time. But towards the end, you know, we
kind of got it down and it became such a
faster thing where he didn't have to put on the
full prosthetics to for us to do his costume. There
was like a mini colin that we built on a
form that had like some prosthetic pieces and like some
(57:18):
padding and all that stuff for him, and we would like,
you know, put it, put everything on it, and then
be like, oh does this fit? You know, this mannequin colin.
If it's it's mannequin colin, then I'll fit the real
colin for this character. And so there was a lot
of you know, problem solving to so we could make
his costumes but he doesn't have to be so involved
(57:41):
in getting you know, his prosthetics on for us. But
then also he was shooting all the time, so we
didn't have time to really fit him that much. You know.
But I think on every project it's like the first,
you know, couple of fittings are like, hey, how get
to know you? Fittings you know, with the actor and
with the character, and then towards the end it's just
so much fast because you're like they know it, you
(58:01):
know it, and it's just an easier conversation.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
One last question, how do you handle you mentioned, uh,
you know, mixing custom garments with stuff that you source
this vintage from various places. How do you handle What
do you do when someone comes to you because I
keep this, can I have this?
Speaker 4 (58:27):
Well there is a process, so they make a list
and we send it off to the studio and they
have to approve it. But you know, I always want
to say that if you have things that the actors
want to keep then you did a good job because
they see a lot, you know, and so it's always
very flattering when they want to keep something. But yeah,
(58:47):
there is a process to it because you know, studios
are always like, oh where did that go?
Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yells so much wonderful conversation.
Speaker 4 (59:01):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
On tomorrow's episode of X ray Vision, we're diving into
Agatha episode six, and on Wednesday, Abu and Aaron A
Brack with another episode of X ray Vision extras covering
Arcane episodes four and five. That's it for this episode.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (59:16):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kisumsion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer
is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and
Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi On Disco Moderata
Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for The Penguin episode five Homecoming,
so watch that before you listen to this. Hello. My
(00:24):
name is Jason Cepcion and I'm Wedsday Night and welcome
back to x Ray Vision of the podcast where we
dive deep but dear favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.
Coming you from iHeart Podcast, where we're bringing you two
episodes a week every Tuesday and Thursday. Sometimes three, I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Gonna say sometimes we get a third extra episode on Wednesdays.
In today's episode, in the Airlock, we are talking about
another fantastic episode of The Penguin.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Did you think it could get better after episode four? Well,
guess what it does.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It does, and we have a delightful interview with costume
designer Helen Hwang.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
But first the.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Elop episode five of The Penguin Homecoming, Rosie. This show
just keeps getting.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Better, it really does.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
This is astonishingly great, coming after one of the best
episodes of TV of the year, which was one O
four with Sofia's origin, and I just had no idea
how they could follow that up in a way that
a would make you care about Oz again and B
would give Sofia the airtime she needed to let her
(01:32):
story breathe, and it did both, and I'm honestly just
so excited about it.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Let's start. We start the morning after Vic's escape with
Oz from the clutches of the Maronis, after his entire
scheme got burned in front of Sofia. His scheme got burned,
so Oz is burning up his beautiful plumb as roddy.
He sets fire to it, all the while reminiscing with
(02:02):
Vic about a gentleman named Rex.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Caliber we first had him talk about in the pilot.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
That's right. Apparently, Rex, an inspiration to a young Oz,
had a wonderful gold Cadillac that that Oz clearly uh
thinks of as success. That's success, having a really nice car.
As he as his car burns up, he says, end
of the end of an era, Vic asks, Okay, what
(02:31):
about Sophia?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Now?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
What does this means? Don't worry about what about the car?
Don't worry about Sophia. Here's what Oz loves. Oz loves
that Vic showed loyalty forget about an the little.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Wobble like, don't worry about it, don't work, smashed the
car in or something for me saved my life. So
it's us.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I love it. This is forget about everything else. It's
you and me and Nick. Some bear henchman show up
some guys that used to work for the for the
Drops operation that Oz was running. Low level, very street
level guys. They show up in a van and Oz says, Hey,
I'm cutting you in on the new drug distribution deal,
(03:17):
but first we got to take care of the Maronis.
How well. Taj Marony, scion of the Maroni family, just
happens to be addicted to social media. The guy and
he's an idiot. The guy is posting his location. We're
gonna go get him, which, by the way, I'll say
(03:38):
as a as a is a thing that happens in
La Guys get God because they post their location and
then and then not realizing that the streets are real
and they will get God. That way that happens.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
He's doing the other classic like not realizing the streets
are real situation, which is like he's like boasting about
how high is like the Maroney's a coming back baby,
Like you're gonna get as a baby.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
You don't. You ain't got a juice. You ain't got
the juice.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So Taj is at the tattoo parlor getting.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
His It's like a ben Affleck Phoenix, which I was like,
is this unbelievable, Like this can't be a coincident.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And he's wearing his noise cancing headphones, so he does
not hear. Oz's guys take out everybody in the place
and let me just say, whatever brand those are banging apple,
I need him.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Because like five gunshots, like taking out headphones that they
could ever have.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Vic runs in, punches Taj a bunch of times in
the face. They take him away. Oz goes to black
Gate with the Proof of life little polaroid picture of
Taj all tied up. OZ makes a deal with Nadia
and Salvatore drugs for the sun. It's very simple, give
me the shroom, I give you the kid. The handoff
(05:02):
is set for the next morning. Not He is like,
I don't trust Oz.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
She should yeah correct.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
On his way out, Oz pays a guard to do.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I'm usually like, I can no bad choice, idiot. Move.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
On the way out, he looks up, he sees a
TV news report All the Falcons are dead. Sophia the
loan survivor at Falcone manor so Via is surveying the carnage.
The cops are everywhere. They're you know, they're EMTs everybody.
They're bagging up the bodies. The chief police comes over
(05:41):
and he's asking about the kind of kind of a
kind of a lucky break. This ghas leak taking out
the entire Falcone family and somehow you survive in the
in the greenhouse, She's explaining, you know, there's a big
argument Luca's wife, something about Luca's wife, and so I
went to go with some peaceful nights sleep in the
(06:01):
in the greenhouse. What he thinks the whole thing is fishy,
the chief of police. She shuts him down, wondering why
the chief of police would come out here himself to
investigate something like this, see you worried about your payoffs? Like,
what's your problem? He's insists he's just doing his due diligence,
and he walks away, clearly honestly looking to see, hey,
(06:23):
are the payments going to continue? Is the relationship going
to continue? Sophia goes off.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
He's like, whs Johnny vee And she's like, oh, I
think that had something to do with Luca's wife.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Maybe he left, you know, like Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I was just looking off to my niece or my
cousin in the greenhouse.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So Sophia goes to the family crypt, where she has
Johnny Vett bound and chain in his tighty tidy grays.
They're not whities, but they're tight, tight, little Or. She
wants Ved to show her where the cash is. He knows, Listen,
my you know, uh, my dad and Luca probably had
a bunch of cash hidden around the man or somewhere
(07:02):
like yeah, like like Tony Soprano with the duck feed.
You know, remember when he had the cash and that
duck feed. Vidi says, listen, if you're gonna kill me,
just kill me, just get it over with whatever. She's like, No,
we're not going to do that. I'm going to keep
you down here in the dark and the very very cold,
frigid crypt. I'm gonna pour water on you, and we're
(07:23):
gonna wait till you break. Meanwhile, Oz's crew is at Eve's.
They've got they've got taj hold up at Eve's. They're
all watching the news wondering, uh what the death of
all the foul Clones means for them. Oz is like,
don't worry, about it to the guys, and then he
goes to Eve and he says, don't worry about it.
(07:44):
Eve's like, listen, they know my girls. They know my
girl's face because they were working to deal bliss at
the club. They know that. They're all involved.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
And Nowes and.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
The Maronis and Sofia and yeah, Sofia's into my house,
like what is going on? Like, you got to fix this.
He's like, don't worry, I'll fix it. Meanwhile, uh, you know,
Taj is just in there with a bag on his
head and those noise canceling headphones, so don't worry. He
can't hear a thing. He's still got the noise canceling
headphone over the bag.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah, him, I wonder what the playlist is.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Oz talks to his guys. He says, listen, don't worry
about the fuck cast. They never made us. They never
they never shared the wealth with us. With them out
of the way. Now, all we got to do is
take down to the Maroney's. This is going to be
actually easier now. And he's like, go get ready for
the handoff of Taj. He gives Vic a separate, very
(08:38):
sensitive job. He says, go upstate, Go get mom, and
you need to watch over. Sophia is down in the
crypt and she's just like teasing and trolling VD and
talking about all those kinds of shit, wondering when he's
gonna break and give up the goods. But instead, Ved
tells her that you know, on the night that your
(09:01):
father killed your mother, your mom was about to leave.
That's why he called her. She was gonna take off.
She had her bags packed, she was gonna flee with
you and the kids. I had a car ready for
I was gonna help her because she was my cousin.
But she didn't show up, and that's how I knew
she was dead. Sophia doesn't believe him. Ved then says, listen,
(09:22):
I feel tremendous guilt again. She was my cousin who
I loved very dearly. I introduced them, so I feel
like this is my fault. And then he makes his pitch.
He says, the money's not enough, Sophia, it's not enough.
You need the guys, you need the muscle, you need
the man power. I can get that for you through me.
(09:45):
I can pitch you as boss and get a sit
down with all the gang. I couldn't help your mother,
he says, but I can help you, Vic. I mean,
it's a strong hit.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
DoD B.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Listen, fuck everybody in this show. They're all terrible. But
like you know, it's a good pitch and we'll see
where it goes. Vic goes to Mom's and the place
is a mess. Clearly, uh, she is spiraling down. It's
unclear if she's been taking her meds. The stove is on,
the fridge is open. This place looks in a state
(10:22):
of very bad repair. She's in the back bedroom and
for a second she thinks that Vic is Oz, or
or if not Oz, maybe one on the broad because
she's got she's got the baseball glove out and we
know that wasn't Oz. Oz couldn't play baseball obviously, but
but she's clearly reminiscing about those old days. Vic introduces, no,
(10:47):
I'm Vic, and her demeanor becomes cold and business like,
and she's like, what do you want. We realize also
that Mom has been falling a lot. She's covered in bruises.
Mom Cob wants to know what's going on Oz, what's
up to and Vic gives her the update. Oz is
facing off against the Maroneys. The falconies are gone down,
(11:07):
taken out by down on their knees. Guess who took
them out? It was Oz.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
I think this is a good move by Vick, honestly,
because this woman, it's nice, give us something to celebrate.
She might not remember tomorrow that you told her this,
so like, just yeah, let her enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
And she does celebrate. She is like, she's like, she's
loving it. She's she's loving it.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
She's like, get the fuck out of here, really, and
Vic's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's why I'm here because
OZ sent me to, you know, take care of you.
And she is thrilled. Meanwhile, the Oz, the guard that
OZ bribed, goes into Maroni's cell and fucking stabs them
right in the guts and says, foolishly, I think, yeah,
(11:52):
very stupid, this is from OZ and stabs them in
the gut.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Can I just say higher a taller prison God, have
you seen Clantcy Brown?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
That man is built like a fucking brick wall. He's
so tall.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
As soon as you have and you use the Kurgan
in Highlander, don't forget this guy.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Like this man, I see this tiny little prison guard
joking him with a little like what looks like a
homemade shank, and I'm like, this ain't gonna go well
for anyone.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
It's like sell, second of all, you you're a prison guard.
You've been working here. You know how it goes. You
don't just you can't just stick it in. And yeah,
once you gotta go, you gotta multiple times. You got
to perforate the guy.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
The prison is clearly corrupt.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
We've seen that from the fact they let Salmaroni just
have his like little meetings with his with his wife
and his crew and everything.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So like, couldn't you just like smuggle in a weapon.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
I feel like you didn't need to use like a
small shank, and you could have also, like you said,
perforate the man, Like come on.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
You just what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
What are you doing?
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Man?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Oz goes to the meet with Taj Uh and Nadia.
Nadia is there with one bodyguard as agreed upon. Oz
brings Taj and one of his previous drops, Operation hen Cheese.
He's uh, Taj is dripping wet, soaking wet in his
under He's soaking wet and and and you're thinking that's right,
(13:23):
and you so you're thinking, oh water like Johnny VD we'll.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Get boarding like some kind of torture.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I was like, where are the shrooms. They're over there
across the room, bagged up. It's like on the back
of a pickup truck. As soon as Oz sends Taj
over to Nadia, who wraps her arms around her son,
it's the double cross happens, and here comes the gunman
out of a side door. So the gunfight breaks out.
(13:53):
Oz and his guy take out the gunman, and then
Oz sets he lights his life and we realize that
that that Taj is drenched in gasoline or kerosene or something,
and they they go up and flames mother and son
and they and they die. It's terrible. They crumple to
the ground. Watches but truly horrific.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
It's hard cool man, he's like crazy.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
But the fire sets off.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
The fire makes sense, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And and as that like whatever that stuff is that
powdery likes, you know, flame retardant substance comes out. It
sprays all over the shrooms, and Oz, remembering how sensitive
the shrooms are, like cover up the trunk. They get
out of there. They get in the in the pickup truck,
(14:44):
bust through the door. As the police is do do
do doa da.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Wow wow the time of the police.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yes, Oz, you know, they drive a little bit away.
Oz goes and looks at the shrooms and guess what.
The flame retardan stuff wrecks all the ship just like.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
That, almost like frozen.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
They're just just crumbling gone, and Oz is like, fuck
except for two buckets of shrims. Who covered up? That's it.
That's all he's got is to two buckets of shrims.
The Sal calls while this is going on, and also
Oz picks up and goes, tell me something good.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So you can't even pretend like someone else set up
that you make him look bad like he he's just
admitted that he tried to have Sal killed and sounds like, bro,
I'm alive, I'm alive.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I guess your guy's dead. Your guy's dead. And guess what,
I'm out of jail. And then he says and I'm
never gonna stop looking for you. Oz. You're cook And
Austen says, oh, I've cooked. That's interesting because I just
cooked your wife And sudden.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
What Carl, what the I could my jaw dude draw?
And Barrel's little face when when when? When Maroney said like, oh,
(16:13):
you're cooked. His little face is like really like I cooked.
It's like, oh you are?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
You are in trouble, bro I that was so.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Incredible, right, I could not believe it. Oz calls Vic
because like, your mom is fine, she's just sleeping. Oz
is like, listen, the heat is on. Now, Okay, there's
gold hidden in the house. Take it, take her meds,
get mom out of there anywhere that's they won't look
for her. I don't have a place, I don't have
(16:43):
a backup place. You're just gonna have to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I feel like, oh, I feel like this is a
weak spot in oz Is planning. It's like he literally
sleeps behind a giant safe door. I feel like he
should have had a couple of other like safe houses
or plans.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But you know what, he's really piecy. He's a man.
He plays it. He's playing it by aa.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
He's playing it by ear. And you make a good point.
But I think this is this shows you that oz
Oz was on the come up. He's put he's invested
everything he has into making this move. The Maserati's gone.
He can't go back to his apartment, where one would
assume he's got some guns and money stashed. He's got
(17:25):
like just what's in his pocket right now and the
gold from the mom's house. Like he's really just like hustling. Yeah, uh,
and we're hustling as well. We'll be right back after
a word from these from our sponsors. Sophia is h
(17:59):
goes to the aster closet where Carmines clothes and her
mom's clothes are still hidden up. She's smelling her mom's scent,
trying to get a whiff of moms sent Doctor Rush
comes in. What the fuck is doctor Rush doing here?
He says, listen to this crazy bitch, this little bitch.
But let's be honest, Sophia needs a little bit right now.
(18:20):
She needs she needs, she needs a bitch with a
fucking collar around his neck. And doctor Rush.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
She's like, I'm gonna be that bitch.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Doctor Rush comes in, sits up and says, wolf Wolf, Wolf,
I will do whatever you want. What do you want? Master?
And honestly that's appealing to Sophia right like he missed,
you know, I'll do I'll do as told. Sophia comes
downstairs wearing her Mafia queen costume, big fur coat which
(18:50):
was Bomb's.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
And Isabella Jigante in the side.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
She goes to meet the gang. Here's all the street
level guys. This is not the maid guys, not the Coppos,
this is the street guys. VD is there. He's called
all these guys together, and she sits at the head
of the table with VD at her right hand, and
she says, let's get it ei of the way. I
killed everybody. I killed Luca, I killed Luca's wife killed.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
I love you so much.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
This is such a everybody. All the Coppos they're gone,
now gone, fuck them. And here's what I have to
offer you. A come up. My family threw me away
like a piece of garbage. And that's what they would
have done to you, because they never were gonna make you.
You're not gonna be made guys. You were gonna be
cannon fodder. I'm not gonna treat you like that. We're
gonna make peace with the Maronis. I'm not gonna waste
(19:44):
your lives in some senseless war with the Maronis, and
we're gonna take over this town. And Vid he's like, well,
the Bardi, we do have to take out the Maroni's no,
and then she just fucking blows up, she shoots them
in the face, shoots Jonathan baked zd ved below. This
is fucking Marinera's sauce all over the table, Bob. And
(20:07):
then like pat Riley making his pitch to Lebron when
he threw the championship riggs on the table, she gets
the bag of money that Johnny bakes Z DVD got
her and she tumps it on the table and she says,
my family never shared the falcon The Falcone family never
(20:28):
shared with you. Well, guess what. Its not the Falcone
family anymore. It's the Giganti family, my mother's name. And
in the Giganti family, we shared a wealth. Guys take
the money in there, they agree they're part of it.
And doctor Rush is back there at the back of
the room and he is bricked up. Let me tell
(20:48):
you he is like he's like woof, woof, wolf rolls
over on his back and he's like pet me on
the belly. So he I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
This is definitely, like really interesting because in the comics
she is Sophia Gigante at some points, but that's to
do with who she marries. So I like here that
they make it about her mom and it's this kind
of like reclamation from Carmine.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Very cool.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I'm very interested to see where this doctor Rush thing
goes to.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Could be really interesting to see. But yeah, great scene.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
This is actually gonna be my Halloween costume this year
because I love Sophia Falcony and I want to wear
a big fake fo coat.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Vic takes Mom Cob to Crown Point because Crownpoint, which
we get to see as he pulls in, is in
a fucking state. Yeah, it's a it is.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
They have not over nothing, nothing, Fema.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Oh does not dare set foot in this way like
it is dangerous. Squid is out in the streets doing
crime out and the open cars turned over like a
storefront's wreck. It's bad here. Yeah, and I think Vic
kind of wisely understanes. Nobody's gonna look for you here.
Viccy's Squid and he's like, Mom Cob, just come on,
(22:04):
hurry up. We gotta get inside before Squid.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Start this nerve wracking moment, like Squid spots them, Yeah,
because you're watching them and they're sneaking behind him and
he's smoking a cigarette and it's like you're in Arkham
in the games and you're trying.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
To like sneak around the city. But then just as
Vic is kind of finally managing to get her through
the door, Squid sees him. Obviously, this is gonna and bad.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
It's gonna be a problem. This is gonna come back
on them. Mom Cob hates the east Side, hates, does
not like this shithole. It reminds her of her own past.
She raised her sons in this very same neighborhood, not
far from here, in a place that looks just like this.
(22:50):
And then she says something that I think Vic feels
it really resonates with him. He says, she says, this
neighborhood will take everything from you.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Osgar to Eves, He's he's fucking panicked. He is a mess.
He's like, it's time to lamb out. We gotta get
out of here. We gotta go to the ground. I
got a spot by the zoo, by the zoo, I
got a spot by the zoo that nobody knows about.
We can lamb out there. And he was like, are
you fucking crazy? I got my business, I got the girls.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
She can see that. It's like it's time to let
go of She's like to do this.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Oz loses it you turn on me. This is it.
I thought it was gonna beat you would be. And
she knows Eves a smart cookie, she knows exactly how
to soothe his egos.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
I love this moment. She's just baby, No like you.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
First of all, you're gonna come out on top. Everybody
knows that you're smart. But I'm just gonna be slowing
you down right now. You need to make moves, and
you can't make moves trying to trying to watch out
for me. And this this steadies Oz and he's able
to go out and and uh, you know, head head
back out and check on Meanwhile, Maroni is hold up
(24:01):
somewhere out in the woods in a cabin, like in
a fucking unibomber style.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Oh yeah, yeah, like eating some fucking cold Italian food.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Cold, fucking he's like crying. Chef Boyard straight of the
can and he's like, look at it, a picture of
his recently cooked wife and son. They're they, you know,
they at least are warm. Not this Chef boy Ard.
Out of the can. He's and he's he's crying, he's
weeping in the gun shouts outside and here's Sofia. Sophia
(24:34):
says this sucks, Right, I got something better. How about
you and me against Oz? We take him down? Yeah,
peace in our time?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Did you Gantes and the Maronis together?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Why keep this going? Like what's the fucking point? Like
you hate my dad? I hate my dad.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I hate my dad, and I'm in charge now. And
it's not the Falcones. You had a problem with the Falcones.
You don't have a problem with me. We're the candies.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
And also as want to like, guess what, Oz, he's
betrayed us both, he's made it. Let's just let's just
do it up, baby, and mister crabs Clancy Brown, he's
looking at her and he's thinking about it, and it's like,
sounds like that could be potential here.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
That's right. Oz goes to the hideout and Crown Point
and he Vic is asleep. He creeps past Vic and
he creeps into bed with Mom.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
And getting into bed with your mom.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Feelings cuddling. He needs emotional support right now, and he
insists to mom Cobb this is temporary. We're only just
hiding out here. But we're good. We're on the come up,
I promise you, And she says you're a big dreamer,
like your daddy says, no, I'm not like him. We
don't know what happened, but clearly it was not good,
(25:44):
and Mom Cob is like, get off me. Vic wakes
up and is apologetic, but Oz is like that, no, no,
you did good. Bringing her here was smart. I get
where you're coming from. Vic then asks about the brothers.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Which implies I think that, like mom Cobb has kind
of been talking about him. Yeah, and it's interesting because
we see this disconnect between Oz and his mom in
this episode, but I do think they hint that her
and Vicker getting close up. I also think it's really interesting,
like we see that whether it's illness or whether it's
just who she is, she is like quite cruel, Like
(26:21):
OZ says to her, like I feel like I let
you down, and she's like you.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Did you did? Like she is obviously not a loving,
like carrying woman.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Oz basically says the city took my brothers. Whether that
means like child protector services or the streets, it's kind
of unclear, right, yeah, but and us kind of ruse
the weakness that he had it that you know, that
kind of marked him at the time. He wasn't he
was wasn't strong enough to do anything about the brothers.
(26:51):
Oz then takes this reminds Oz of something, and he
takes Victor an abandoned trolley station that his him, my
brothers used to have fun in, and you know immediately
as they go down there, this is it. This is
gonna be.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
The penguins hideout.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
It's humid, it's kind of dripping with water.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Perfect, it feels like it's giving at least a little
of the timber, and Batman returns very much kind of
under the zoo. I also love this because we've so
often in this show the focus has been on grounding,
even though where we're having people like gas their own families, Like,
there's outrageous stuff, but it's definitely in that grounded world.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
And I love these moments in the Matt.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Reeves Batman Epic Crime Universe or whatever they're calling it, Like,
I love these moments where we get the hints of
the comic book origins, like the lair, and the lair
is in the old trolley system, and obviously it's wet
and warm down there, so perfect to grow some mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
It's also a perfect I mean, you mentioned it, and
I thought of I thought this myself. It's Oh, you
think I'm going to the zoo. No, this is a
separate thing. I'm in different Oz, I'm a different penguin.
This is a different story and I love that. Yeah.
And so there's a working generator out there. They get
the lights on and they're going to grow the shrooms here.
(28:16):
This is going to be ground zero for the penguin operation.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And they're little like you can just see in this moment,
they've got this little fire between them, like, oh, it's
working where they can happen, like things can happen for us.
And I'm just like, guys, it's got them, guys, it's
never gonna go Well, so you've seen the end.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I have not.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
No, no, I have not seen the end.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
No, no, No, it's just Joellen Common, Just Joellen Common.
We're playing. So I've only seen.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
This is a perfect point, at a turning point. Three
episodes to go hit. We've hit that kind of turning
point in the story where Oz is at his lowest
and he can only build up from here. Predictions where
do you think this story goes?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I think that Oz does get the shrooms going. I
think that's going to be successful for him. I think
that we're going to end the season with Oz in
a place where he can be a true villain for.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
The Batman too. I think he's going to be a
major player.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I think I hope that whatever happens between Sophia and sal,
I want Sophia to be in The Batman too.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I think that Christin Melotti.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Is so fantastic and I just absolutely adore her and
want to see more of that character. And I think
having Sophia as the main crime boss fighting against Oz
would be incredible.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
So that's more of like a what I want.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I am not feeling great about Victor's chances of survival.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
I love him, I feel, I said, very very sadly,
especially because very very very sadly, I mean sadly say
with Rerenzy Phillies, he's so fantastic you just want more
of him in this world.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
But they released a poster recently that, obviously, to people.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Like us, is supposed to be evocative of Jason Todd,
and we've already talked about how much of a Robin
he feels like this character could be.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I would have loved to see that transition for him.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Maybe I think he's kind of in a Tim Drake mold,
but I doubt that will happen. And they released a
poster where it was Vic and then his shadow had
somebody behind him holding a tire iron. Now, somebody pointed
out vic dad was a mechanic, so maybe it's to
do with that, but I think that that is evocative
of Jason Todd and they want us to know where
this could go. And also, many moons ago, when the
(30:50):
first Batman movie came out, Robert Pattinson said he wanted
to do Robin and Batman, but he wanted Robin to
be like a kid, right like ten eleven twelve. Now
they are saying the rumors abound that they are going
to have a Robin in the Batman too. So I
think it's a very interesting parallel for Penguin to have
had his own sidekick. Yeah, but yeah, I want Vic
(31:13):
to keep going. I love Frenzy. I love this role.
But my gut is saying, especially as they end in
such a like victorious way in this episode where it's
like the two of them together and they're making it happen,
that doesn't bode well for me.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Here's where I feel like we end with Sophia on
top new crime boss in Gotham City, Vic sadly dead.
I feel like the streets need a sacrifice, and the
Penguin established in his headquarters still the scrappy upstart, very dangerous,
(31:54):
but not at the head of any family. Just a guy,
just the peng, a drug lord running his own gang.
I don't know, like does some kind of alliance between
Sofia and the and the Penguin makes sense, some sort
(32:14):
of very very still.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Maybe kind of situation where she's like, as long as
you stay underground, like I won't kill you, you know,
if there's some kind of benefit to that. Okay, So
how far I'm very interested because I love the costuming
in this show and I think it's absolutely just fantastic.
How far do you think that? Do you think will
end this season with like Oz wearing like a tuxedo?
(32:40):
Do you think they're gonna lean into the more visual
aspects of the Penguin as they've kind of leaned into
Sofia's kind of mafia queen.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Look, I don't know. I could see that happening. If
Oz makes a pitch to the like disaffected members of
the Maronis, this is what you want to do. You
want to follow a falcone, She causes, Candy, whatever a falcon,
(33:10):
Give me a fucking break. You're gonna bow to a falcone.
That's what you want to do? Bullshit, Come with me.
Let's get revenge. Now. If if that happens and he
puts himself at the top of like a reconstituted Maroney family,
I could see that. I could see him in the.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Tucks, see him a bit smart, a bit like yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Uh, but I kind of don't think that will happen.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I like, I like, yeah, I'm excited to what happens.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I like your idea of Sophia and Top and Oz
almost is this like underworld crime boss still having to
work his way back to the surface.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, I think this show is awesome.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I need Emmy's costume designer who we speak to on
this episode, Helen Huang Emmys. I need to make up
people to be getting Emmy's Emmy's Emmys.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Like, I don't want to see any of.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
This superhero TV being seen as some kind of underclass
of TV.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
This is such a fantastically made show.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I think it's opening the world up to many other people.
I actually saw that the fourth episode was the highest
viewed episode.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
There's there's a buzz now, like I see people talking
about it. Yeah, I say this, this show makes me
very excited for what the Daredevil board again show could be.
Oh could Oh?
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Also, I like that because this is going to have
to put a fire in their belly.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yes, say, hey we can. We can take it up
a notch in you know, quality wise, drama wise, Like
there is there's a level that can be re by
really kind of doubling down on street level. I feel like,
you know, I liked a lot of the Netflix stuff.
I am a I can't believe we're gonna admit this.
(35:10):
I'm a Defender's apologist. I think The Defenders is good.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Look most like that casting is incredible. I am still.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Here's a problem, there's a I wish we could get
Daughters of a Dragon series.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
I love the Misty casting.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I love what they did with those two characters specifically. Yeah,
I mean, I would love to see like a real
street level Marvel show.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I can't believe that you revealed, but I think The
Defenders is actually there's some it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
I still my dream is that they still will bring Khalei.
I want them to bring the act to play Colleen
back and have her be I am. I think that
Jessicamwick should be brought back and be iron fist. I
think that would be like such a good casting awesome. Yeah,
so I'm like, let's do that. But yeah, I agree
(36:11):
with you. They've they've touched on what can be great
about Street Level. But I hope it's a fire in
their belly as I believe they're still doing reshoots and
kind of reconstituting the show, and I hope it makes
them think like, wow, we can do something that people
are we.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Can we can get really Yeah, we can do something
really really really cool. Well up next or Penguin. Our
conversation with the Penguin costume designer Helen Wang. Helen, thank
(36:50):
you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Oh it's a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, we're so happy to have you here.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
The the costumes in the wardrobe for the Penguin are
just feel so important for giving it a sense of
place and personality. And I think you know one thing
I've noticed from your work and being a fan of
the various shows that you've worked on, including Beef, which
(37:17):
you've recently went on Emmy four and Station eleven. Is
this feeling of a lived in world, like everything looks
like folks have been wearing this stuff. Talk about your approach.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
I always try to first, you know, they send you
the script, but I try to understand the tone of
what I'm doing first. And I have particular things I'm
interested in in costuming, and I try to sink the
two of them up and see if I could bring
that the things I'm interested in into particular projects. And
(37:55):
so in this one, you know, when they set me
the information and when I talk to a little and
the showrunner, it was very much like French Connection Scarface,
you know, clue to those type of seventies references, and
also the movie. I was a big fan of The Batman,
and I just felt it was very cinematic, and those
(38:17):
references are cinematic. And also I feel quite emotional, and
so when I was doing research, I viewed it as
a place without time, and so I looked at a
lot of vintage photographs from Jamal Schebaz to Frank Horvat
(38:40):
to Richard Sandler. So people who like really took pictures
in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. In New York
for sort of the tone of the Gotham that I
wanted to do, and obviously I do want and I
think the lived inness is a couple of things. Obviously,
you need to have enough of crew so you have
(39:00):
a good age you're dher because that's what really matters
at the end, because they have to touch the objects
that you make or bring in. But also I think
the lived in look is more if you find for me,
if it's like when you really find the character, you
find a way to sync up with them, then that's
when the audience really view your work as being organic
(39:22):
and of a place. And of course when you're doing characters,
they have to fit within the world and then that's
the cohesion that you really want. And so that was
my approach. That's my approach to everything and anything, you know.
And then also I look at narrative, you know. For
this particular project, it was very much about institutions and
(39:45):
how institutions fail people and how crime is a way
of people in certain economic circumstances as upward mobility, and
I really identified with that and I really wanted to
show that element and I was very interested in it.
And so you know, those are definitely the type of
(40:06):
themes I think about when I look for images and
when I piece together what I want this world to
look like through clothes.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah, and you kind of you touched on this a
little bit there. But something that I think is really
interesting in this project is that journey of upward mobility
for Oz. Let's say, like, what is it like kind
of taking him from and costuming him from the driver
to the unmade man to the aspiring mob boss, Like,
(40:34):
could you talk a little bit about the changes within
his suit, the things that the untrained I might not notice.
Speaker 4 (40:41):
Well, we actually did go backwards because you know, obviously
that episode where he was the driver was in a
later episode. Yeah, in the beginning when we looked at Oz,
Colin and I talked a lot about how to do
this character so he's not costume, and because he didn't
want him to, he wanted to have a fine line
because obviously, you know, if you're in the Batman world,
(41:04):
there is a certain obligation to be a little bit
larger than life. But we really wanted to walk that line.
And with Oz's suits, I like to think of it
as a contrast to the falcones. So I really viewed
the falcones as institutionalized crime. So I looked at a
lot of European influences for them, and a lot of
(41:28):
sort of old money references from the nineteen sixties of
New York and Manhattan. And then with Oz, we thought,
you know, here was a man who covets style and
really wants that. And then also, I you know, when
I first read him on the pages, I thought, this
guy has a very distinct idea of what masculinity looks like,
(41:52):
and you know what men kind of look like. And
so even from his suits, he has that approach, and
so he doesn't really dress outside of the box, but
he does feel that he only fits into a certain
silhouette to make himself more masculine in this world, and
(42:14):
you know, his suits are reflection of that. So we
had really strong shoulders. If you look at his lapel,
we really looked at how wide his lapel should be,
and if you look at it, it's not a contemporary lapel.
It's more of a nineteen seventies lapel. And we tried
to make him almost like a triangle shape, you know,
an upside down triangle shape, where it's very strong shoulders.
(42:37):
And then because of his physique, he wants to illusion
the eye to narrow down, and so we tailored his
suits closer to the bodies to the when it hits
him at the waist. He has bigger collars to sort
of proportion out his face. And you know, he wears
really pointed shoes even though he has the club foot,
(42:58):
to really give it that elongated element. And so we
really thought about how to subtly make his like how
subtly he would think about his suit, almost overthink his suit.
But then he would come in with these fabrics that
aren't the patterns that falcones would, you know, want to wear,
(43:19):
or the colors that they would want to wear. So
he feels definitely more new money and they feel more
old money. He's a wanna be there already there. They're
like easy elegance. They're like Picasso in Spain. He's like,
you know, try hard, try hard, suit man. And so
we thought a lot about that, and then when we went.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Back to.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
Him as a driver, we made him a really cheap
suit like we got like wool Polly. We made the
lapels really small and modern because he did not have
the money to make those suits. You know, his tie
was from Macy's. We picked the cheapest, yeah, sort of
viscos with you know, his shirt's definitely not cotton, it's
(44:03):
definitely synthetic. And so we tried really hard to sort
of subtly put those elements in. And I did, through
this project, learn a lot about men's tailoring and how
because of certain expectations of men their clothes, the proportions
are very slight and the changes are very slight, and
the fabrication is a big deal. And so you have
(44:26):
to really sort of study that and watch that as
you're putting men next to men and sort of telling
that story.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I wanted to go back to the you mentioned the
age age or dyer I think is the term. Yes,
And I think you know, we we we watched a
lot of TV. Sure you do, and and we've all
had the experience of watching something where it just feels like,
my gosh, it feels like this wardrobe just came off
in the back and they just put it on. So
(44:53):
what technically, what are the technical aspects of creating these
garments so that they look like these characters have been
wearing them for a time.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
Oh my god, good agreed, Dyers are like magicians. You
it's like it's one of It's like having a good
tailor and a good agre dyer and a good buyer
is like one of the three temples of having a
successful project, you know that and a really really good ACD.
But they take your car. So if it's like a
made garment, they will sometimes wash it. If it's washable,
(45:25):
they'll wash it several times to get whatever look they desire.
They paint into them to get a patina of things
that are older. They sand, they you know, they it's
basically alchemy. They have different types of waxes that they
put in there. They put little highlights on clothes and
(45:46):
to look like they've been worn, you know, and the
edges are afraid. You know, if I have an all
black garment that comes in and it needs to look
like someone's wear, they'll spray it with a fine mist
of something that like is a hint of gray. And
then it's like you don't even notice until you put
two garments like together, like if you have multiples, and
(46:08):
you're like, wow, that makes a hell of a difference.
They put rocks in the pockets. They string up the
garments so it'll have it'll have all the folds in
the arms, they'll weigh things down. I mean, it's it's
literally the most amazing thing. They do, all the rolls
on the sweater, so when you view it on screen
it looks like some of them's more. I don't know,
(46:29):
it's it's magic. And then also they die. They die
every fabric to the color that I want when I
want to make something, I cannot speak enough about the
craft and the talent level that goes into something like that.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yeah, it really comes across in a show like this too,
where the clothes talk so loudly about who the characters are,
and I guess what was it like for you? Then
I want to get Sophia, but I'm saving her because
she's just so wonderful. So I want to talk a
little bit about Vic because his costumes are so different.
(47:05):
So when you go to someone like Vic who's meant
to be younger, like he didn't have these aspirations before,
it's just living in what he could take with him
when he disaster happened, how do you show his world
in his clothes.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
And kind of how it changes when he meets Oz.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
So for Vic, I really wanted in the beginning for
him to contrast Oz's very sharp lines and tailoring, and
so we so if Oz is sort of a more
seventies silhouette, we gave Vic a very nineties silhouette, early
nineties silhouette, and we wanted him to feel almost like
(47:50):
he's encompassed and clothes, but also his clothes. He wore
the same outfit for almost the first three episodes, and
so we really try to layer him in a way
that would make sense if he's so if his character
decides to take layers off. Vic is very nostalgic to me,
and so I felt, and also speaking of Oz, he
(48:13):
thinks masculinity is a certain way. Vic does not feel
that he's.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Younger, you know.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
And I also view that he probably has like his
dad's hand me downs that you know, his dad doesn't
wear and he thought it was cool now and things
like that. But I am a big fan of the
nineties starter jacket, I don't.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Know, still a big fig fan.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
So I love them so much, and I love sportswear
in any way, and I feel like they're under they're
underserved in anything of this type of world. It's like
they just forget that there's sportswear or something, and so
we bought a lot of vintage items for him, and
we took the pains to make the starter jacket from scratch.
(48:57):
So everything was from scratch, everything was dyed from ratch.
It took us a millionaires to get the details right,
the fit right. The inside jacket is based off of
an old Fila jacket and that's also made from scratch,
and we made it red so then it's like the
little pop of color. And then also between Oz and Vic,
(49:17):
we did want Vic to feel like there's slightly more
color variation in him, where Oz feels very controlled in
his color palette. And then even on the inside you
don't even really get to see it. But when he's like,
you know, digging the grave for bodies, we made him
we made him a Gotham City basketball shirt. Yeah, and
(49:39):
it was like a face Gotham team, because I was like,
in the real world, kids like that would wear sports
where they would have a basketball team. He would wear that.
It's natural, even like down to you know, you never
see it because he didn't get to that. But like
his tank top was like something that we remade to
(50:00):
resemble like a nineteen seventies tank top. So we did
take so much care with him. And for me, he's
he's a black and brown character in a world of
comic books that deserves a lot of attention and a
lot of care, And I wanted to put as much
research and as much effort into what he wears as
(50:23):
I do a Oz or Sophia. I really felt that
it was necessary.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Let's talk about Yeah, obviously comes from such a hierarchical
world that's divided by gender. Also, yes, talk to us
about what about Sophia's look and the thing that she's
trying to present herself at the different looks that she's shown.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
So with Sophia, I always feel a great, big responsibility
for female characters, especially female characters in a world like this,
because I feel like people have gotten used to how
female carea just look in a world like this. And
for me, it was very much about and you hit
it on the nose, is like, she's a female in
this world, and so the thought was she is dressed
(51:15):
like how they think that she would be dressed, so
her femininity against their masculiness, how you know, like they
use her as a forward, presenting, legitimate phase of their organization,
right you know, she's polished, she does the charity work,
she speaks, you know, she legitimizes them, but she's still female.
(51:39):
But I didn't want to do the traditional sort of
like tight female kind of thing. And you know, some
of those elegant looks feel odd against you know, Kristen
who's younger, who's a younger actress, and they didn't really
give her the oomph that she deserves, you know. And
(52:00):
so I started looking like a lot of images of
Edie Sedgwick from the nineteen sixties, so socialites who have
like a little bit of a rebellious edge. And I
really like the shorter silhouettes because there's something very girly
about the sixties but very rebellious about that time. It's
like femininity but with a wink, you know.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
And then I looked at a series of photographs by
Peter Lindenberg for Harper's Bazaar. The model was Kate Moss
in the nineteen ninety four and it was like nineties
minimalism does Sixties, and I just it like blew my mind,
and I was like, this is it, you know. And
so her first white suit is based off of a
(52:43):
Karage nineteen sixties reference. So we did that for her
because they really wanted her to come in not looking
frazzled or like she just came out of Arkham. They
really wanted her to be contained and like Oz, you know,
doesn't know where her mind's at, that type of unknown
ingnus so really polished, you know, but in an unusual way.
(53:05):
Then as the series progressed, like you know, in the
first episode, she wore like a vintage or Metz trench coat.
We did a lot of vintage shopping for her. I
think seventy percent of her costumes were all vintage, and
then a big portion of it was made, so it
was like made plus vintage, and then we did do
some newer things. But towards the middle, you know, everything
got kind of wild, and so we use like vintage
(53:26):
Marnie things that have a lot more texture. Nineteen sixties
LeMay dresses, the heels got higher. She was not wearing
it and heels any more. You know, before it was
like Selena and Rmez, and towards the end it was
like Marnie in nineteen sixties, you know, rebellious dresses. Towards
the end it was like Vivian Westwood, a lot of
(53:46):
Vivian Westwood and you know, like Drea's van Noten, because
we really wanted to give her, especially in her coats,
to give her huge dimension. So it's almost as if
she's like changing shape in front of.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Growing.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
And then of course in the end, you know, it's
we wanted to do, you know, bookend, iconic non color,
iconic color, you know at the end, and that was built,
that was built from scratch.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Yeah, was there is there a costume?
Speaker 2 (54:18):
So this will be added to episode five, This will
come out when episode when episode five conversation comes out.
So as we move into the last three episodes, is
there a costume.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
That you're really really excited for the world to see.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Is there like a moment that you're you think people
are going to go, oh wow?
Speaker 4 (54:36):
I think the end the end, Yes, the book End
is really really good. But you know, episode five, there
were two outfits in there that no one will ever notice,
but I am extremely proud of. It's when it's when
she talks to the police and she's in a black
T shirt and it's sort of like we had two
palate cleanser outfits in that episode, and that was one
(54:59):
of them. When she was wearing a black T shirt
with leather pants, and it was just such a rocking
different attitude than what she was before. And then the
element of her in the white shirt dress when she's
in her closet that was actually based off of the
Audrey Hepburn breakfast at Tiffany's when when the guy comes
(55:22):
to her door and she turns around and she's like,
please turn around and put on my and you think
she's putting on a rope, but she's not. She's like
actually putting on a men's tuxedo shirt and it was
backwards and we did that for her. But you know,
it's very hard doing palate cleanser like non costume costumes
that actually fit a character. And I'm really proud of
those because it was such a soft but it didn't
(55:43):
take away from like, she didn't become, you know, a
West Hollywood mom for a second, to be simple, you know,
we didn't. We and we kept that like character. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Yeah, So much has been said about collins incredible transformation
through the Penguin Suit. Were there any particular challenges around
designing for that suit.
Speaker 4 (56:12):
I mean, obviously there were a lot of prosthetics and
it was kind of like a moving target, you know,
when there are prosthetics involved, because they do sit differently
from time to time, from day to day. But we
it took us a while to sort of get It's
like he had to put on the full prosthetics the
(56:34):
first couple of times we did the you know, at
least half of his face prosthetics when we were doing
because it leads down to his neck when we were
doing the first couple of wardrobe fittings, and it was
you know, very uncomfortable. I mean, he's amazing because he
never complained ever, but we needed to do that because
or the clothes won't sit right. And we didn't really
(56:56):
sort of understand what we were building in the body
at the time. But towards the end, you know, we
kind of got it down and it became such a
faster thing where he didn't have to put on the
full prosthetics to for us to do his costume. There
was like a mini colin that we built on a
form that had like some prosthetic pieces and like some
(57:18):
padding and all that stuff for him, and we would like,
you know, put it, put everything on it, and then
be like, oh does this fit? You know, this mannequin colin.
If it's it's mannequin colin, then I'll fit the real
colin for this character. And so there was a lot
of you know, problem solving to so we could make
his costumes but he doesn't have to be so involved
(57:41):
in getting you know, his prosthetics on for us. But
then also he was shooting all the time, so we
didn't have time to really fit him that much. You know.
But I think on every project it's like the first,
you know, couple of fittings are like, hey, how get
to know you? Fittings you know, with the actor and
with the character, and then towards the end it's just
so much fast because you're like they know it, you
(58:01):
know it, and it's just an easier conversation.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
One last question, how do you handle you mentioned, uh,
you know, mixing custom garments with stuff that you source
this vintage from various places. How do you handle What
do you do when someone comes to you because I
keep this, can I have this?
Speaker 4 (58:27):
Well there is a process, so they make a list
and we send it off to the studio and they
have to approve it. But you know, I always want
to say that if you have things that the actors
want to keep then you did a good job because
they see a lot, you know, and so it's always
very flattering when they want to keep something. But yeah,
(58:47):
there is a process to it because you know, studios
are always like, oh where did that go?
Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yells so much wonderful conversation.
Speaker 4 (59:01):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
On tomorrow's episode of X ray Vision, we're diving into
Agatha episode six, and on Wednesday, Abu and Aaron A
Brack with another episode of X ray Vision extras covering
Arcane episodes four and five. That's it for this episode.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (59:16):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kisumsion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer
is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and
Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi On Disco Moderata
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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