November 21, 2025 • 59 mins
In this week’s episode of group chat, Rosie is joined by entertainment critic Amelia Emberwing and Joelle to break down why Wicked: For Good falls short of its potential. Then they discuss The Might Nein, the latest show from the incredible team at Critical Role. Finally, Carmen joins to make the case for why Metroid games should stay 2D platformers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning, Today's episode contain's spoilers for Wicked for Good, The
Mighty nine, and.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The Metroid franchise.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hello, I'm Rosie Knight and welcome to XRGC or Ripchat,
a weekly roundtable with our producers and special guests to
talk about all the things we're excited about in BB's TV,
comics and pop culture. In today's episode, we are joined
by Amelia Emboing to discuss two very different worlds of magic.
We will be talking our mostly spoiler free reactions to
(00:46):
Wicked for Good with Amelia and super producer Joel, as
well as digging into the lore of the books and
what changes from the movie to the musical to the
book and back again. And then in segment two, Amelia
will be joining me to give us the lowdown on
Amazon's The Mighty Nine, the new animation from the world
of Critical Role. And in segment three, come and we'll
(01:10):
be joining me to talk about the pitfalls of the
Metroid franchise inspired by the newest game, Metroid four. But
first we're gonna talk about Wicked. Hello, Lovely Witches, Amelia,
thank you for joining us. How's it going.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Thank you so much for having me babes. I'm so
excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
It's going to be delightful. And Joel, thank you for
joining us too, Me and you, well, all three of us. Really,
I know that we have enjoyed the Wicked franchise throughout
its years. Joelle. We did go to a Wicked eat
along for the first movie, which was really delightful in
(01:53):
La with your mom. It was it We Love You, Yes,
incredible black owned business, super fun. You get to eat
the movie as you watch, and I just generally have
been addicted to the first film soundtrack. I had seen
the movies. I mean, I'd seen The Fitter Show with
my system with one of my besties, Knee, but I
(02:13):
was not a huge Wicked Superstan. I just liked the
songs before the movie. The movie definitely kind of threw
me into it more. And now we are at this
point where after it being one of the most successful
movies of the year last year, we now end up
in a situation where Wicked for Good is coming out
and we've seen it, so we're gonna talk about it.
(02:33):
So I will start with you, Joelle, what were your
Wicked for Good feelings?
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I was a Wicked Stan growing up saw the place
three times, had a sapphic bestie sang many a song
with her, really really enjoyed the musical, was astounded, and
I was one of those haters when the first trailer
came out. I was like, that is not the note
that she hits in the musical. You've scarred when you've
(02:59):
done Why is this happening? But then I saw the movie,
and I was of course captivated and moved and delighted.
And the press tour and all of it, it's all
of that leads up to here, where I feel both
a mixed sense of delightful anticipation and horrifying dread because
I know what Act two contains, and it's bleak, and
(03:20):
it moves at a musical pace, not a film pace,
which is to say we're skipping all across time.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
We're moving quickly through things.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Things are happening in big musical ways, which is to say,
we're just singing our feelings at each other, and not
a lot of action is happening.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
This will absolutely train wreck a movie.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Coming out of this movie, Rosie called me on A
movie is like someone's been crying and I had been
for good. You can't for good It's a song that
means so much to me again, a formative, impactful, childhood
bestie love situation. Have song means everything to me, and
the rendition they do of it is bring you to
(04:01):
your knees good. It is, Oh, they put their whole
hearts into It's really really good. But every concern I
had about the film kind of came through. It's too
bleak to start with. The pacing is all over the place.
You kind of don't get enough time to push in
the big changes a lot of the characters make in
act too to convince a film audience that those changes
(04:23):
feel realistic and impactful. I think where the sets were
so good in the first movie, I felt a little
lackluster on some of the production design in part two.
So if I were going to give it a rough grade,
I would say for me, it's like a C plus
B minus film, which is to say, holy cow, these
(04:44):
performances are incredible, the costumes are still really hitting, and
I care a lot about what's happening, and it's solid.
It's an okay movie, but it just doesn't work as
a whole for me.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I think that's a very fair take. I will say
I was this is the kind of casting that I
think is so good that for the most part, it
holds the movie together and keeps you invested because you
care about where these characters are going. But as I
was watching it, I did have I was describing this
to someone where even when I love a movie and
(05:19):
I can see it's really well made, which in this case,
I think the casting is incredible, the songs are incredible.
I love the way they use their reprises. I love.
I actually thought that the way that they kind of
zipped through the second act worked simply because in the play,
the second act can feel a little like you're waiting
for for good But I felt like they did a
good act job making it kind of action packed and
(05:41):
keeping you engaged. But does it feel like the first
Wicked movie? The answer is no, because they were able
to create out of the first act something that felt
like a whole movie, like a whole musical masterpiece, kind
of throwback to the old school. There were so many
fantastic homages and kind of brilliant set pieces, and this
(06:06):
movie does have incredible songs and set pieces. Does it
feel like an entire movie or does it feel like
an act? To it feels like an act too, And
I think in a post MCU world where we've been
having sequels that still managed to for the most part,
feel like an entire movie that you can jump onto,
I think that might be a bit of a problem
(06:26):
for some viewers, but I am going to say I
do think that if you watch both of them in
a row, it's probably like a very satisfying second act
on the level of what I feel when I see
the show is my that's my general feeling. I've only
seen it once so far. We'll be going to see
it again on Saturday. But Amelia as another lifelong Wicked stand
(06:49):
what were your feelings on Wicked?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
For good me and Wi could have such a complicated relationship, Joelle,
you mentioned that the second act is bleak, and I
hate being.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
The book person. No, it's not girl, it's bubblegum bullshit.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
It is as compared to the book is bubble gum bullshit.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Just want to make sure to clarify.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
As compared to the book, and like that is that
has always been my key struggle because like listen, the
first time I saw Wicked, obviously in awe, the set pieces,
the performances, the costumes, the music, it is all impeccable
except for that story.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Except for that story. It is it makes me insane.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
It makes me insane because Wicked is such a deeply complex, difficult,
gritty political story. And anybody who thinks that Broadway is
just all bubblegum nonsense, I'm gonna need you to go
watch more plays because that's not true. So there's no
reason that we couldn't be there.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Emileiah tell us that what the ending of the book
is compared to the ending of the play and why
those changes feel so impactful because the the movie definitely
for good, definitely leans into the play and then even
expands the happy ending even more so. So could you
tell us a little bit about the book changes that
make such a big impact.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Yes, And before I get to that, I want to
be clear. I do like Wicked for Good, but I
like Wicked for Good in the exact same way that
I like Wicked the play, and that why.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Did you do this?
Speaker 5 (08:42):
So in the novel they're I like just telling you
the ending is sort of is sort of complicated because
there are a billion things that lead to it. But
Fierro doesn't turn into a scarecrow. Fierro is murdered. Doctor
Diliman doesn't lose his voice. Doctor Dillarmond is murdered. Alphaba
(09:02):
is allergic to water. So like the entire Oh, people
are so empty headed they believe anything.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Stop it, that's it, that's real.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
The function of a wicked is to be an exploration
of nature versus nurture. And they there's a line in
No One Mourns the Wicked that like, are people born wicked?
Or do they have a wickedness thrust upon them? And
that is the entire impetus of Maguire's book is was
the Wicked Witch of the West always evil? Is she
(09:35):
evil at all? Or was she made to be evil?
Now the flip side of that is that by the
time we have the climax of this story, Alphaba throp
is so furious and stricken with grief and rage that
she cannot see what is in front of her, at
(10:00):
least in the book, Glinda, Glinda giving the shoes away
isn't just some Oh yeah, I guess you can have
this dead girl shoes like it is in the movie.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
This dead girl who I felped get murdered. PS will
get to that, Laer. I'm sure.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
It's not just that it's she's trying to stop munchkin
Land from going into political disarray. And so the answer is,
give this random girl who fell in a house these shoes. Now,
Elfie furious, is like, she's going to take those straight
to the wizard who is destroying everything. Also, he's not
some fluffy little potunk idiot. He is absolutely a totalitarian,
(10:42):
lunatic dictator. So Elfie's furious, he's gonna take those shoes.
She's gonna take those shoes straight to the Wizard. We
cannot do this? How dare you?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
What is wrong with you? And again this is towards
the end of her story. So she has either lost.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Everything or been betrayed by anything, and the one friend
she has left is like, yeah, sure, let's give these
shoes and let them hop all over there.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Problem. So Dorothy Gaale goes to the Wizard. The Wizard says,
go kill Alphaba.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Same she goes to Camico Castle and says, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Here to kill you.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
I'm truly just here to apologize for dropping a house
on your sister. I don't know what the problem is.
I don't know why he's so angry. I'm just here
to say I'm sorry, and she begs for forgiveness.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Now, going back to the.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
Fierro death, Fierro and Alphaba don't have She doesn't like
skip away into the sunset with Glinda's fiance. Fierro is
very much married, has three kids, and they have an
illicit like awful affair.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
From which Lure is burned the son of a witch.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
So after everything happens, and after most of his family
is murdered by the wizard, she goes and begs for forgiveness.
His wife is like, girl, no, but the rest of
the rest of the family is like, sure, you can
stay here for eight years and like learned to be
a witch whatever. So then all of them are viciously
murdered by the wizard, except for nor who is kept
as a slave because again the wizard is a despot,
(12:15):
an absolute demon monster piece of garbage.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So all of them are murdered.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Then this random girl who drops a house on her
sister and walks around with these deeply powerful shoes that
could like destroy everything if they end up in the
Wizard's hand shows up and is like.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Will you forgive me? And Elfie flips out. She flips out,
this is her last Straw whoms to argue, you're begging
for forgiveness. You murdered my sister. I cannot do this.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
So she's flailing all over the place. Her broom's on fire,
she's yelling. She accidentally sets her skirt on fire. Dorothy
grabs a bucket of water, tries to rescue her, melts
the witch. Then Dorothy takes the bottle of green alixir
that is left behind takes it to the Wizard. That's
how the Wizard realizes that Alphaba is his real daughter,
(13:03):
freaks out, knows that he has to escape.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Oz.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Manages to escape Oz right before the coup that is
meant to slaughter him arrives at a doorstep, so he
gets out safe. Oz is left in political disarray. Now,
the function of this ending is meant.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
To be difficult. It's meant to be difficult.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
And when you know, we go into these things as
critics and you constantly have the conversation of am I
mad that this wasn't what I wanted to be?
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Or am I mad that it didn't.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Fulfill its promise as a film, And in this case,
it's I'm mad that this film didn't fulfill its promise
because what makes Part one of Wicked so good is
that John M. Chew and the writers introduce so much
(13:56):
more of the politics into Part one don't see in
the play at all. That is a huge part of
the reason as to why the first film is longer
than the entire play. So in that transaction, John M.
Chew and the writers set up an expectation of maybe
(14:18):
perhaps we will tell a more meaningful ending to this
story beyond it's fine if you lie, if you're nice,
and you know what, the Wizard of Oz in this
story also started off with good intentions. So all you
have done is restart the cycle with your saying bubblegum nonsense.
(14:42):
It makes me insane. Ending of this play and now
the subsequent ending of the film, it didn't have to
be that way, should they have gone with the ending
of the book. Also know, because audiences wouldn't have known
what to do with that, with the overarching aspect of
this story. But there is a answer in between those
two extremes that help solve the problem, and it's your
(15:05):
job as a creative team making the fourth adaptation of
this story to find that. And that takes us to
Wicked for Good's biggest problem which is it is so
beholden to the Wizard of Oz. And I'm sorry, but
when you're an adaptation of an adaptation of an adaptation
of an adaptation, you no longer have to attach yourself
(15:26):
to these things as tightly as you find it necessary
to do so. And I think No Place Like Home
is such a perfect example of that, because that song
is great.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
It's a great song. If you don't have that line
no place like Home.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
We got a positive this is This is to me
like the moment, right, this is the moment where I
immediately start veering away from the Stephanie Mills originates Dorothy
in The Whiz and sings Home, which is now a
Broadway standard. This song is so clearly trying to pay
homage to that song, but through a character who does
(16:02):
not and has not yet made this space her home.
What are we doing? Why is this here? I again,
beautifully sung. It's also a problem for me because this
is where you introduce in this story the plight of
the animals, which, to your point, Amelia, I was like,
I understand, you can't go as political as the book.
It's not as dark as the book's not meant to
(16:23):
be already set it up to be this very colorful,
poppy musical. I don't anticipate you going the book rout,
but the book is good because it makes you question things,
and it's actually trying to explore and ponder really deep
rich questions which we get in the first book.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And if this is.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Called for good and your final thing is about how
this friendship has made us both better human beings and
you have to fucking show me that. Sorry, And I
think you could have done that to me when I said.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Like, let me pitch John in the studio an idea
real quick?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
What if instead of so closely following both the musical
and trying adhere to this original film slash book.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Again, an adaptation of an adaptation of an adaptation, Uh
what if you? I had focused on Alphaba.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Working with the animals and figuring that out and making
that your political event. With this whole idea of like
what is home when we currently look at our country
and immigration and politicians who don't necessarily speak for you,
there's a lot of themes you can very lightly play
with that aren't too overbearing.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I also think is a problem they were.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
I'm not sure if this was what we're trying to
protect Ariana or if we don't want you to hate
Glinda too much. At the end, Glinda needs to make
a turn to do bad things, and she needs to
acknowledge and embrace doing the bad things instead of being
I'm just.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Dumb in area.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I didn't know what was happening.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
They did what now crazy?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I just never dawned on me. I don't at first.
I don't like women like this. I think it's really upsetting.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
I don't think Arianna needs to be infantilized or Glinda.
Glinda makes some really strong choices that are really cruel
and hurt a lot of people. She has the most
useful song with the best cinematography ever. But maybe it's
time for my bubble to pop. The bubble is really
popping for you. Nothing changes, You keep all of your power.
Your friends are gone essentially, but you have kind of
(18:05):
already just say goodbye to them. He's but oh my god, guys,
the mirror scenes with John really showed. He was like,
He's like, I'm.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
A director like you are.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
John also gets a really great wedding scene in here,
which if you love the wedding and crazy rich Asians.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Strap in because it's over the tom just gorgeous.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
But I don't understand why we couldn't have had these
very surfacy still reminiscent of the first film, sort of
overhaul rewrite of like Alphaba helping the animals, learning a little.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Bit about herself.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Hey, you have some privilege and power. Maybe you're not
acknowledging in this moment. Maybe we get a little bit
more of her and Fierro because that, guys, I don't
want to be too u outside of the movie, but
these two very homosexual people trying to convince me they're
in love with each other was not working. I don't
think that's their fault. They're great actors. I've both seen
them play straight before. I know they can. I'm not
(18:55):
saying gays can't play straight. I really love when they do.
We need opportunities.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
But my god, I don't buy the romance.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I I do have to disagree, only slightly, because I
think what comes through is love for each other. Do
I think that they're probably gonna have a heterosexual LoveFest
night in clothes that were apparently knitted by like animals,
A sexy two piece knitted by forest animals. No, but
(19:24):
I do want to say, I think you guys are
both one. Amelia, thank you so much for the book law,
because I do think it's gonna be such a big
talking point. But would also say I do think there
was a lot of missopportunities here, because I do think,
for example, I think the chemistry casting between the three
of them is so good that there are moments where
even when I was the Dorothy stuff where You're just like, Glinda,
(19:47):
what the fuck? And I feel like, actually, in that
moment where they showed Glinda saying it and that you know,
oh go for her sister, start a rumor and you
have the Wizard and Miss Marrable behind her, that was
such a scared shot. I was like, Okay, they're leaning
into it. They know this is a terrible thing to do,
and it kind of gets skipped over. But even then,
moments after that, when Ariana Grande is like screaming for Fiero,
(20:12):
even after she's acknowledged that he loves Alphaba, there is
magic in the way that those three all love each other.
And I'm gonna just say something. I know I was
saying it last night, so were other people in the
theater when we watched it, but like on Monday Night,
I should say. But also guys, like the chemistry between
Arianna and Cynthia is so good that for it seems dumb.
(20:33):
Like there were guys coming out who are never usually
the make it gay kind of guys, who were like, okay,
but they were shooting it like they were gonna kiss,
Like the final moments are for good. They shoot it
so their faces look really close together, and they they
very much. But I'm just like even a cheek kiss.
There is a German staging where they do kiss and
they use the same dance from that staging. When they
(20:54):
did the Osdusk Ball, they used certain movements, so people
were hoping, I don't and as we know in the book,
book is very queer. There's all different kinds of relationships
in it, so I didn't expect them to come out
and be like they're gay. But I do think that
they missed out on just how fantastic that casting was
to mix it up a little bit and make it
more obviously a thropple an a a three kind of
(21:18):
way romance, because I think that that is actually one
of the things that made the first movie so good
is that main trio of casting because honestly, they all
seem kind of gay and that works for me in
that version. Now, guys, before we leave, I could talk
to you about this all day. I do want to
grab some box office predictions from you, guys, because the
(21:40):
first movie was a smash it. Amelia, what do you
think the opening domestic for Wicked for Good is going
to be? Do you think it's still gonna have a
massive opening weekend with a drop off? What's your thoughts?
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Oh, yeah, it's it's still It's still gonna blow the
roof off. It doesn't matter that it's worse. People just
people just want to see these three together. People are
going to be very disappointed because everybody's separate, like it's
but like I think the conversations around it are are
(22:11):
what's going to spark that intrigue. Like, for example, I
fall between the two of you in the in the
chemistry situation, Like listen, as Long as Your Mind is
one of the best songs. I love it so much,
and I do agree with you, Rosie that those two
people have so much chemistry and once they get rolling,
it's believable. But they just start the song and then
(22:36):
start peeling off their clothes and it's so word at first,
I need a little four play.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
It should have led up to a kiss.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
It makes no sense, but I love you both office numbers, right, Yeah,
That's what I'm saying, is like that that intrigue of
like that conversation around like I don't know that was
so weird.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
People want to see that for themselves. They want to
like they want to know, like what's going on here?
Because I believe all of these people have this level
of chemistry and so like what went wrong there?
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Again? Cancer for play, let's have some. But but I.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
Think I think it's going to be twofold in a
people are going to show up for this, regardless whether
that's right or wrong. Bu there are aspects that critics
and like people like us are are dissecting that that
they want to know more about. Tell me about this awkwardness,
(23:35):
tell me about this ending, like it can't possibly be
that bad.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
It can.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Like those those moments are like a people, Well.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Now I'm curious and I have to know more about it,
whether it's good or bad. So I still think it's
going to blow the roof off. It might even be
the last one who can say Joe out any.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Forty thousand dollars opening weekend, shorter tail than fifty fifty
million opening weekend, and then a shorter tail than the
original had.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I just don't think the reason.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I need to give you a reality check. I love you.
The first movie opens like one hundred and sixty. I
don't think there's no way. I don't there's no way
it's doing fifty. It's easily over one hundred. I think
it could open to two and have like an eighty
percent drop off. But I also think that they are
doing double bills, and I do think if I was universal,
(24:26):
I would have encouraged or offered to basically every press
come and see it as part of a double bill,
because I actually am very interested to watch the two
of them together, because I think the second act will
be complimentary to the first act, as it is in
the play. I'm going for a round. I think it
could be anywhere between like one hundred and forty to
two hundred, depending on how much critics impact it, and
(24:48):
I don't think that will be much. But I do
think it's not gonna have as long legs, like you said, Joelle,
because a lot of the longer legs came from Oscar
people from people who like those girls are not getting
their oscars. This movie and the new songs are not
getting Oscar noms. Golden is gonna win, obviously. Yeah. An
interesting an interesting end or not end, because I will
(25:11):
say one of the big reasons in this you can
blame on corporate cynicism that this movie had the ending
it did and actually even expanded out the happy ending
from the movie is because there will be a Wicked
three and Ariana Grane is already talking about it, already
teasing it. They do not want to give up this movie,
so let's see if it makes enough money for them
(25:32):
to try and expand because Amelia, as you've said, if
they keep taking from the gregory stuff, there's no way
they can keep it being Pg. Thirteen and keep these
hooks in people. So I'm interested to see what happened next.
Definitely a mixed bag, but yes, Wicked for good. It's
out this weekend, and I agree with you, Amelia Discourse
Havers will enjoy this movie. Yeah, let's go to a
(25:55):
quick ad break. Joelle, thank you so much for joining us.
We appreciate you, and then we.
Speaker 7 (25:59):
Will go straight in to the mighty nine and.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
We're back, and I've joined once again by Amelia. Amelia,
thanks for sticking around for a completely different magical world.
So if you guys haven't watched Fox Marketerer or The
mighty nine, we are going to be digging in with
Amelia Embowing, one of the foremost Mighty nine and legend
(26:40):
of Fox Marketer hosts and writers who recently actually hosted
the mighty nine NYCC panel to launch the show. Amelia
is an incredible host who was an editor at IGN.
She was my editor. She was also my editor at
What to Watch. She's also a brilliant writer with credits
at DC Comics, Nerdiced and many more. And she has
(27:03):
built an incredible relationship with the creatives behind these two
fantastic animated questing shows that have been a huge smash
on Amazon Prime. So, Melia, could you tell us a
little bit about how you started that relationship and what
your journey to Critical World was.
Speaker 5 (27:25):
Well, like, it's obviously this world is so intrinsically rooted
in D and D.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I don't play D and D. So my first.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
Introduction was the legend of ox Machina, which I think
is so remarkable. You know, I love me and misfits story,
and that's very much the energy here. And then beyond that,
like obviously I started doing more and more interviews with
them and just.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Sort of built a rapport with the cast.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
Part of that was possible because the woman who gave
me my start in this industry as a whole back
in the Amy Poehler Smart Girls days was Rachel Romero,
who was there one of their directors, like one of
their like she can't remember her exact title, but she like.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
It was marketing pr something like that.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
We reconnected throughout that process, and and you know, I
spoke to the cast more, and now we're at a
point where, like we we just have a really good rapport,
so it's really easy to work together or or build
good segments around around that. So far as New York
Comic Con is concerned, Like I am endlessly so thankful
(28:41):
that they allow me to participate as a teeny tiny
part of their world.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Obviously on that one, I'm I'm just a conduit.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
I'm just there asking the questions to to to give them.
You know, the platform seems like the wrong word because
they wouldn't ever need me for a platform, But like
you understand, like I'm there.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Moderation is about helping have the best conversation. Do that,
but you are actually great at so yeah, it is
like being a vote. It's kind of like being like
you said, you're just that to help them share the
best stuff.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Yeah, Like there's so I always talk about the difference
between like being a moderator and doing an interview, like
those are two different things. When you're a moderator, I'm
there to make them look good. I am there to
to act as a act as a conduit between them
and the audience. And like for me, as somebody who
(29:38):
doesn't play D and D and is broadly just in
love with these shows, I like, I like to come
at it from that perspective because I think something that
has really helped me in this journey and like getting
to know Critical Role better is understanding that I will
never know more about this world than critters do. And
(30:02):
so like obviously we come to the other things that
we cover as not no walls, but like these these
experts who know, like I know more about Lord of
the Rings and the general audience member, I can provide
a service to the audience in that regard. But when
it comes to Critical Role, it really challenged me to
(30:24):
change the way that I come at coverage through the
way I interview stuff like that, because there's no question
that I'm asking that critters don't already know the answer to.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
So that helped me change the.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
Way that we discuss, discuss all of it, the way
the way I interview with them, the way I moderate
with them, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
If you're going to pitch the Legend of Volksmakana to
someone who's never watched it, because it has been a
way more accessible hit than I think probably even Amazon realized,
there's a huge imbount base, like you said, so obviously
it's a smart bet to walk with them. But I
found so many people who'd never played D and D
who loved this show. So if somebody hasn't listened to
(31:09):
Vox Macana doesn't know what they're getting into with the
Mighty Nine, what would be your pitch on the shows?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
So first and foremost, it's so so critical.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
Yeah, it's so very important to know that Mighty nine
and the Legend of Box Machina are completely different stories.
By design, all of these characters are very different, so
they're all they're all lovable misfits, but in in the
(31:41):
legend of Vox Macina, they're they're outcasts. In the mighty nine,
they're all very much anti heroes, like they're There's there's.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Some moral ambiguity in the legend of Vox Machina, but.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Mostly they are beloved goofy fuck ups that have been
ostracized for one reason or another. Vexenbax have like are
are distanced from their father. Keelith is constantly trying to
prove herself. Pike is like trying to like constantly reckoning
(32:19):
with her faith. Scanlon is in this go between of
I want desperately to be loved and to love, but
I'm afraid to have that or lose that, So I'm
just going to be a goofy goober, you know, all
of these things, and in critical or Sorry. In the
(32:41):
legend of Oxmakna, all of them sort of add their
comic relief at different moments of time.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
In the ninety nine, that'll be a little bit different,
not entirely.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
All of these characters are funny in different ways, but
maybe more snarky than goofy, or maybe just more dead
pan than silly. It is intentionally a much more difficult
story I think Nerdiced was the one who went with
the headline of mighty nine is all dungeons.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
No dragons. That's very much true.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Vox Machina is very rooted, like it's it's very much
a dragon story. There are like that's you're going against
the Chroma Conclave. That is a huge aspect of all
of this in this overarching story in mighty nine, it's
it's different. It's it's still got so much magic, but
(33:32):
it's it's more ground level than you might think. And
none of that is derogatory. It's just really important that
people understand that they're coming into a story that is, yes,
a part of Xandria, but also also like it's grittier.
I've used that several times throughout this conversation, but like
(33:53):
that's that's a great explanation for it is like it's
it's more down in the dirt.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
It's it's more these people, these people deserve to be
loved and are lovable, but they are not lovable.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Misfits, if that makes sense. They are they are people
going across their journeys. And I think Travis is the
one who brings this up a lot because it is
really important to know with Vox Makana, we start with
the team already together. They're already connected, they already have
their own little backstories and and that sort of connection.
In mightighty nine, that is not the case. We are
(34:27):
watching these people come together, and that journey will be bumpy,
like not in Caleb's sort of immediately come together, even
though there's a will they like, will she turn against him?
Won't she turn against him? That pretty much get the
episodes are out today, the episode check that it gets
(34:53):
resolved by the time we get to the other side
of this, this first batch of episodes. But you know,
there's always that question, you know, we we we get
we get them coming together at different points, which I
think is really important that they released these first three
because people who go in not knowing that these people
(35:17):
are not starting together, like it's very important so that
they get to the other side.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
And all of these are.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Our well almost our Yeah, they're like.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
They're in the forty to fifty minute range rather than
the twenty to thirty. So these are longer, deeper, more
complex stories with a with a deeper darkness to them
than Vox Machina does.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
And I would say is and this is set twenty
years off the Volksmakina, Right, it's like I mean, it's
like a it's like same well, different timeline. Because one
of the coolest things about the show, and one of
the things that I think has drawn so many people
to it is the original cost of Cret Coral will
come back and do the voice acting right, So it
is really it's a crazy cast. You have your big
(36:03):
Vox Marketer people like Travis and Sam, but you also
have Ashley Johnson, you have Laura Bailey, Talis and Jaffy
like that, who is another critical role guy. So they
really do a fantastic job at of bringing in iconic
voice acting talent. But also in this season we get
(36:23):
Lucy Lou so they're also kind of broadening with the
popularity who we get to hear in the show. This
is in my opinion, and I worked on a piece
with you when you're still at IGN. We did a
state of animation piece. Vox Markner and maighty nine are
a big reason I think that adults are in America
are embracing animation. So if we have listeners who have
(36:46):
yet to take that step and still think about Disney
or still think about kid stuff, how would you describe
the kind of visual landscape of these shows, because they
are actually incredibly brutal and bloody, and but the animation
is stunning.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
Yeah, uh tit mouse is is so exceptional as an
animation studio. Obviously, there is so much depth to both
Box Machina and Mighty nine, but they are also just
visually beautiful and taking it a step beyond that. The
sound design is so critical for that aforementioned like darkness
(37:30):
that you were discussing, like we watch people die tragically,
it will it will get worse in mighty nine, and
like so much of.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
That is is.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
Is not just in the core cast's performances, but it's
also in the way that the sound mixing comes through,
like the guttural noises, like the sounds that you make
as you die, Like it's not it's not fluffing those up,
it's not making it prettier, it's not make it more digestible.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Obviously, anime is in this.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
Huge moment right now, and I would say to any
anime fan at all, like you're gonna love.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
This, and also as well, I would say these are
two great in road shows for that because they also
stand apart from many of the other things that we
are watching at all times, which is homework shows. Now,
the good thing about both of these shows is if
you love them, you can go back and have hundreds
and hundreds of hours of incredible entertainment with these characters,
(38:33):
with these voices. But you do not have had to
enjoy any of that. In fact, you can just jump
into either of these as an action heavy, violent adult show.
If you are our listeners and you have listened to
watched Invincible, which I'm sure many of you have, and
have We've spoken about a lot of the highs and lows.
This is very akin in the notion of the ways
(38:56):
that it stretches the boundaries of what you expect to
see in an act animated series. So I'm really excited
for everyone to check this out. Amelia. Do you know
if this world is going to continue to grow as
the Critical Role success just continues to roll on.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
I mean, so, I don't think Amazon's standing in their way,
because obviously they've ben a huge hip for them. I
would say that more sits on the shoulders of the
Critical Role team, like whether or not they want to
do that now mighty nine is doing, is doing two seasons.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Right off the bat, which we know already.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
I don't see a reason why they would stop, especially
given their incredible partnership with Titmouse. You know, they love
they love working with those teams. I suspect that we
will see all of these campaigns in this form because
we're they're on four now. So I also, like, I
(40:05):
think it's so important that you mentioned the you don't
have to know all of this, all of this contact
that word uh to dive into this, because that's something
that that I talked to the cast about so much
in interviews is a you know, talk about why you
(40:26):
made this decision to make it accessible for everybody, but
be talk about how you've changed it. Because you mentioned Ashley,
and one of the remarkable things about both vox Manchina
and Mighty nine is that there were so many things
happening during during the recording of those original campaigns. You know,
Ashley and Laura kept getting pulled into acting gigs and
(40:50):
so or or life happened like travel, Laura had a baby.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Uh, you know, there were all.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
Of these things that happened that meant that people couldn't
always be there to record.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
And now that they're doing them. Now we get more
of those.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
Characters, and the story is changing and evolving, and it's
still true to the original the original campaign, but there's
also more of it, or it's slightly different, or there's
there is always a surprise for even the critters who
know everything and the people who don't. And I think
to go back to your original point of whether or
(41:25):
not this will continue, Yes, so long as both parties
want to keep doing it. The audience eats it up
because there is something there for the hundreds of thousands
of critters and also the all of the new people
who come to the show without knowing anything, and that's
what's going to keep them fresh for literally as long
(41:46):
as they want to keep making these shows.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah. Well, I'm very excited for everyone to see The
mighty nine. We were big fans of volks Makina when
it came out when we were doing X ray Vision
kind of early on in our career, and yeah, I
really excited for people to check this one out. Let
us know what you think about it in the discord,
and Amelia, thank you again for joining us with your
deep insights in the world of Voxmarkana in the mighty nine.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Thank you so much for having me and a great.
Speaker 8 (42:13):
Time, and we're back and I am here with the
beautiful super producer Common Laurent.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
How are you doing, babe?
Speaker 9 (42:36):
I am doing so well. Thank you for having me
Hers so that we could talk about the fabulous meteor
Roids series.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Not the Meteoroid series.
Speaker 10 (42:46):
That's how I started calling it earlier on Guys, and
then I almost called it that when I introduced the show,
but no, it's really called the Metroid prior series Metroid Okay,
So Common, I actually want to ask you, similar to
when I was speaking to the one full of Melia
who join us today.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
What's your journey with Metroid because this is definitely a
franchise that you really love and in the leader to
Metroid Prime for coming out, it was your most anticipated game.
But we will get to that.
Speaker 9 (43:14):
Yes, absolutely it was. We'll get to that.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (43:18):
I you know, as you as the listeners will know.
I am a huge fan of Alien. That is like
one of my favorite sci fi horror franchises, probably the
top one for me. And if you love Alien, you're
gonna love Metroid because what is Metroid inspired by Alien?
And so immediately once I realized those things as a kid.
(43:42):
I put that, you know, two and two together, and
I just remember thinking.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Like, oh, this is so cool.
Speaker 9 (43:47):
I would be like, oh, did you know that the
monster in Metroid is called Ripley Ridley because that's the
character's name from Alien and it's an homage. And you know,
I love to really kind of lay those facts on people.
As a little nerdy child.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
It's important for us to have those things that we
can nerd out about. You know, it shapes a lot
of our lives. That was like me in comic books.
You know, it's important to have those playground things where
you can be like, well, did you know? Did you know?
Absolutely so, I'm glad that was this for you. Do
you remember playing it for the first time and having
that realization at the end that she's a she's a
(44:29):
little girl.
Speaker 9 (44:30):
Yes, I remember.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I was.
Speaker 9 (44:33):
I was standing in my neighborhood target playing on a
little game Boy Advanced handheld demo and it was the
first game I played, was the Metroid Prime Fusion game,
which was the game Boy Advance game. And yeah, when
I died in the game, her suit falls off and
(44:57):
it's revealed, Oh my god, she's a bad a woman
who's kicking us over there and immediately fell in love
with the series from there. And yeah, so I have
followed the franchise through lots of different gaming systems, on
handheld and on console, and I was definitely really excited
(45:23):
for the lead up of the Metroid Prime for it's
taken a long time actually since the game.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Was gonna say it's not been great.
Speaker 9 (45:34):
Yeah, there's been a rocky road in terms of production,
and so that's always worrisome. You know. I started to
think at one point that we were never even going
to see the game like that they were just going
to like, I hope that we had forgotten about it
and brush it.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
I feel like that for a little bit. I'm not
gonna lie. There was a moment and I mean it
was like scraped. It was started.
Speaker 9 (46:02):
We started with retro the original studio because m Yeah,
so it had a multiple like starting and stopping moments there.
So that's always worrisome. We see last what was it
earlier this year, we see the first teaser trailer and
you know, I'm excited to see Samus in a purple suit.
Excited about that. I'm not gonna lie, and she's got
(46:23):
a motorcycle.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Big question I want to ask you, Yeah, how do
you feel about Metroid not being a two D side scroller?
Because there's some games that I think can evolve past that.
But as someone who grew up playing a lot of platformers,
I really struggled when they made you know, a shut
over the Hedgehog and suddenly it was a third person
like you're following someone through a three D world, Like
(46:46):
I missed the platform and nature and the side scrolling
nature of it. Of course that has evolved. How do
you feel, which I mean, obviously this is a character
I think can definitely successfully exist outside of that, the
Metroid four is pushing it into an open and well
scenarios that really different.
Speaker 9 (47:03):
Yes, yes, the Metroid Prime series is well loved, you know,
and and I do love the first Metroid Prime game
most especially is a very excellent Metroid game. I would
argue that it's like the only that particular first Metroid
Prime game is the only truly good first person shooter
(47:28):
of Metroid where it's in three D. The other games
are a little bit weaker. They don't really like establish
like the gameplay and the story enough to be really interesting.
And so when I heard that there was going to
be a fourth game. I was really excited, but yeah,
it is one of those I started thinking about it,
(47:49):
especially now that we've seen that it is going to
be open world. The open world to me, obviously, I'm
still I should preface all of this and say I'm
still going to buy this game and play it. Yeah,
it comes out because I am a die hard fan.
I played Metroid other M when that came out, which
was very controversial and a very bad game. So there
(48:11):
have been times too when it has been a two
D side scroller and it didn't work, and that is
an you know, Metrod other M is one example. But
for the most part, the franchise is a two D
side scroller game, platforming game, and I think, so far,
in my view, it excels best at that. Yeah, and that,
(48:32):
you know, most recently we had Metroid Dread that came out,
which was a two D side scroller, very very good,
excellent game. But it's one of those franchises that I
think is tricky to figure out how to adapt into
a three D first person shooter style.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yeah, I agree. So let me ask you some some
hot talking points about this game. There has been a
lot of controversy because there was kind of the first
gameplay impressions came out and this was published today by
polygon Y, and basically a lot of the talk was
(49:14):
about this character, Miles Mackenzie, who's this kind of Quippi
nerd from the Galactic Federation, and he's gonna be snapping
and chatting, and people are kind of freaking out because
a lot of the thing that and he's white guy, psychic,
and a lot of people are kind of confused because
(49:35):
some of the stuff that has made Metroids so iconic
is the quiet, the isolation, Samus's journey on herself. So
is there gonna be too much Federation law, is there
gonna be too many characters? Or do you think maybe
people are so worried? And actually this is just building
(49:57):
on kind of those little teasers that we got the
original screens talking about the Galactic Federation, Like does that
kind of stuff make you excited, worried or not at
all kind of impact your feelings about the game going
in As a lifelong fan.
Speaker 9 (50:12):
No, I definitely agree that the game's One of the
core elements of the games is that they are happening
in isolation, and Samus mostly is having to explore these
like landscapes in total isolation, which is part of what
makes it kind of scary and kind of, you know, suspenseful.
(50:32):
I this is actually the first I'm hearing about this
Miles character, so it does seem like he is going
to be kind of a Navvy inspired character that is
going to be constantly in your ear, kind of saying
things that you. I am worried about that that to me,
(50:53):
is not a Metroid Prime game player experience.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Do any of us need an extra white guy in
our evrrect gast advice? There's enough of that, guys. But
I will say I'm not gonna lie I have Obviously
a huge game for me in the last few years
was Breath of the Wild, as it was for everyone else,
completely changed the way I played games, not at all
what you would expect from a Zelda game, in my opinion,
probably still my favorite Zelda game of all time, taking
(51:20):
over from a Jura's Mask. So I will say there
are potential spaces where this can work. I also will
say I really love the newer pokemons, which I know
have not been hugely popular, from Let's Go Eve to
Scarlet and Violet. Despite all the issues. The riding around
on a motorcycle exploring is really fun, and that does
(51:41):
seem like what they're leaning into here, But from the screenshots,
it does not necessarily look like it's gonna avoid some
of the pitfalls of those kind of games like Pokemons,
specifically where there's not necessarily the money or time going
in to make sure that this which version doesn't have
weird finishing coints. Yeah, strange glitches and all of that
(52:05):
stuff I've grown up with and lived with my whole life.
But I do feel like with Metroid Prime four, or
as it is officially called, Metroid Prime Beyond Correct, I
do feel like here they would really have to come
out with a game changing version of an Open World
for it to really hit.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (52:27):
Yeah, and I think I think Open World is kind
of like a big risk that a lot of games
are taking these days, and it can be it's very
hit or miss. I still think that there are going
to be elements of this game that are going to
be very fun and very exciting. Yeah, and I'm sure
like certain parts. I'm sure riding around on the motorcycle
is probably going to be the most fun part of
(52:49):
it for me. That little tron bike that she that
she has. Yeah, so you know, I think it's good
to take. I'm glad that we're like taking these, but
I do want them to be more considered a little bit,
especially with a game franchise like Metroid. Who uh, you know,
I just feel like the Metroid franchise hasn't hasn't been
(53:12):
done its justice over the years.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
You know, I agree, and I would also say as well.
The problem, I think is because of that. Everyone is
hoping that this can be that next level kind of game,
but it looks empty. That's the biggest problem that a
lot of people have had. When you drive around you know,
obviously Breath of the Wild, whether you're on a deer,
whether you're on a horse, whether you're on a cool motorbike,
(53:37):
there is on endless things to see. I still have
never finished that game properly because I just pick plants
and cook and add things to my book. It feels
like you're really in another world. Even with Pokemon. There
are many different lands to explore. There's always Pokemon running around.
Even if it is not as textured and incredible as
Breath of the Wild, it is full. What we have
(53:59):
seen so far is that the gameplay from this does
not look like it is from twenty twenty four twenty
twenty five. Even the graphics do not look particularly powerful.
There is on the Wikipedia a very notorious image of
shit Samus kind of like shooting these aliens and it
looks so zerosy Doom era graphics and then exactly and
(54:25):
while that could be a choice, because we are also
getting some really incredible retro throwback games now with like
Marvel Cosmic Invasion coming out soon the recent Ninja Tittles remasters,
but that is not what this is trying to do.
This feels like it's trying to be a tripol a
game for the Nintendo Switch to that maybe they have
(54:47):
not necessarily built out the way they need to come.
What would this game need before we jump off and aboo,
please do not put that out into the universe. That's
what you have some met train movie are in a
metroid movie stars, Sidney, sweetie, you are cussing us. I'm like,
let's just make Common the star. If we're going to
cast the blonde women, guys, come on Common. What would
(55:10):
you need for this movie too? I mean for this
game to blow you out of the water and be
a success, Like what would be the thing?
Speaker 9 (55:22):
Uh, oh, my goodness. I think it needs to successfully
tied together the elements from where we left off on
the third game basically, and.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Also eighteen years ago.
Speaker 9 (55:34):
Yeah, eighteen years ago by the way we left off
on the third game, and it needs to kind of
move the story forward. I need to feel like the
open world is justified. I need to feel like it's
not just thrown in there just to just to say
that they did it, you know what I mean? And
I I need it to be I think varied a
(55:58):
lot of what we have seen so far of the
open world shots they've shown it. The one shot that
they keep showing us of the open world is like
a desert, which is, like it.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Nice, nobody needs that, Yeah, and we need to drive
across the.
Speaker 9 (56:13):
Desert, So I'm like, that looks really boring. I want
to see like we saw in the initial trailer. We
saw that really rich kind of it was a cutscene
shot of a really rich, dense green area. But I
want to see more of that, and I want to
know that there's going to be multiple little like areas
like that and not just one and then a bunch
(56:35):
of desert surrounding it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Yeah, so exactly. Hoping for a surprise, hoping for a surprise.
But guys, this movie, this game is coming out in
just a couple of weeks, so it's gonna be interesting
to see if this will be another huge flop for
twenty twenty five or if it will be an unexpected surprise.
Speaker 9 (56:59):
Well I have I can tell you one thing. Nintendo
is going to be selling a Nintendo switch To to
my household for this game, so well, I am buying
switch too.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
First of all, switch To. It's worth it, guys. Even
if you're just like me and you're just playing games
you could play on your Switch one, but you're playing
them on a giant, beautiful screen really fast. And if
you're playing an indie game, it's the most beautiful thing
you've ever seen. The indie game on. It does not
have a lot of the issues of the Steam deck
where it cannot play certain games. But I have yet
to commit to a full remastered Triple A game on there.
(57:35):
Come and I will tell you and to listeners if
you are hoping to buy Metroid Prime for I will
say it is going to be seventy dollars if you
buy it from Nintendo directly, but there are multiple pre
order offers that I saw from multiple different big box
stores currently where you can get it for almost twenty
dollars cheaper. So shop around, guys. It's Christmas is coming. Ye,
(57:56):
you love a discouser out there, The deals are out there,
and yeah, let's see what happens. I love a psychic power,
I love a girl in a cool mech suit, and
I love a motorbike. So fingers crossed, do something a
little bit, a little bit different, but we will see you.
Speaker 9 (58:10):
I'm excited. Thank you, Rosie of.
Speaker 1 (58:12):
Course, thanks for having thanks for joining me. Enjoy the
game when it does come out, and we'll definitely we'll
definitely have you back on to talk about it. Okay,
that's the episode. Thank you for listening, Thanks to my
incredible guests, and we'll be back tomorrow with the biggest
nerd news of the week.
Speaker 11 (58:31):
Bye x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and
Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 11 (58:46):
Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 1 (58:48):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dian Jonathan and Fay Wack.
Speaker 11 (58:52):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (58:57):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny good Then
and Heidi our discord moderator hmm
Warning, Today's episode contain's spoilers for Wicked for Good, The
Mighty nine, and.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The Metroid franchise.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hello, I'm Rosie Knight and welcome to XRGC or Ripchat,
a weekly roundtable with our producers and special guests to
talk about all the things we're excited about in BB's TV,
comics and pop culture. In today's episode, we are joined
by Amelia Emboing to discuss two very different worlds of magic.
We will be talking our mostly spoiler free reactions to
(00:46):
Wicked for Good with Amelia and super producer Joel, as
well as digging into the lore of the books and
what changes from the movie to the musical to the
book and back again. And then in segment two, Amelia
will be joining me to give us the lowdown on
Amazon's The Mighty Nine, the new animation from the world
of Critical Role. And in segment three, come and we'll
(01:10):
be joining me to talk about the pitfalls of the
Metroid franchise inspired by the newest game, Metroid four. But
first we're gonna talk about Wicked. Hello, Lovely Witches, Amelia,
thank you for joining us. How's it going.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Thank you so much for having me babes. I'm so
excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
It's going to be delightful. And Joel, thank you for
joining us too, Me and you, well, all three of us. Really,
I know that we have enjoyed the Wicked franchise throughout
its years. Joelle. We did go to a Wicked eat
along for the first movie, which was really delightful in
(01:53):
La with your mom. It was it We Love You, Yes,
incredible black owned business, super fun. You get to eat
the movie as you watch, and I just generally have
been addicted to the first film soundtrack. I had seen
the movies. I mean, I'd seen The Fitter Show with
my system with one of my besties, Knee, but I
(02:13):
was not a huge Wicked Superstan. I just liked the
songs before the movie. The movie definitely kind of threw
me into it more. And now we are at this
point where after it being one of the most successful
movies of the year last year, we now end up
in a situation where Wicked for Good is coming out
and we've seen it, so we're gonna talk about it.
(02:33):
So I will start with you, Joelle, what were your
Wicked for Good feelings?
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I was a Wicked Stan growing up saw the place
three times, had a sapphic bestie sang many a song
with her, really really enjoyed the musical, was astounded, and
I was one of those haters when the first trailer
came out. I was like, that is not the note
that she hits in the musical. You've scarred when you've
(02:59):
done Why is this happening? But then I saw the movie,
and I was of course captivated and moved and delighted.
And the press tour and all of it, it's all
of that leads up to here, where I feel both
a mixed sense of delightful anticipation and horrifying dread because
I know what Act two contains, and it's bleak, and
(03:20):
it moves at a musical pace, not a film pace,
which is to say we're skipping all across time.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
We're moving quickly through things.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Things are happening in big musical ways, which is to say,
we're just singing our feelings at each other, and not
a lot of action is happening.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
This will absolutely train wreck a movie.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Coming out of this movie, Rosie called me on A
movie is like someone's been crying and I had been
for good. You can't for good It's a song that
means so much to me again, a formative, impactful, childhood
bestie love situation. Have song means everything to me, and
the rendition they do of it is bring you to
(04:01):
your knees good. It is, Oh, they put their whole
hearts into It's really really good. But every concern I
had about the film kind of came through. It's too
bleak to start with. The pacing is all over the place.
You kind of don't get enough time to push in
the big changes a lot of the characters make in
act too to convince a film audience that those changes
(04:23):
feel realistic and impactful. I think where the sets were
so good in the first movie, I felt a little
lackluster on some of the production design in part two.
So if I were going to give it a rough grade,
I would say for me, it's like a C plus
B minus film, which is to say, holy cow, these
(04:44):
performances are incredible, the costumes are still really hitting, and
I care a lot about what's happening, and it's solid.
It's an okay movie, but it just doesn't work as
a whole for me.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I think that's a very fair take. I will say
I was this is the kind of casting that I
think is so good that for the most part, it
holds the movie together and keeps you invested because you
care about where these characters are going. But as I
was watching it, I did have I was describing this
to someone where even when I love a movie and
(05:19):
I can see it's really well made, which in this case,
I think the casting is incredible, the songs are incredible.
I love the way they use their reprises. I love.
I actually thought that the way that they kind of
zipped through the second act worked simply because in the play,
the second act can feel a little like you're waiting
for for good But I felt like they did a
good act job making it kind of action packed and
(05:41):
keeping you engaged. But does it feel like the first
Wicked movie? The answer is no, because they were able
to create out of the first act something that felt
like a whole movie, like a whole musical masterpiece, kind
of throwback to the old school. There were so many
fantastic homages and kind of brilliant set pieces, and this
(06:06):
movie does have incredible songs and set pieces. Does it
feel like an entire movie or does it feel like
an act? To it feels like an act too, And
I think in a post MCU world where we've been
having sequels that still managed to for the most part,
feel like an entire movie that you can jump onto,
I think that might be a bit of a problem
(06:26):
for some viewers, but I am going to say I
do think that if you watch both of them in
a row, it's probably like a very satisfying second act
on the level of what I feel when I see
the show is my that's my general feeling. I've only
seen it once so far. We'll be going to see
it again on Saturday. But Amelia as another lifelong Wicked stand
(06:49):
what were your feelings on Wicked?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
For good me and Wi could have such a complicated relationship, Joelle,
you mentioned that the second act is bleak, and I
hate being.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
The book person. No, it's not girl, it's bubblegum bullshit.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
It is as compared to the book is bubble gum bullshit.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Just want to make sure to clarify.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
As compared to the book, and like that is that
has always been my key struggle because like listen, the
first time I saw Wicked, obviously in awe, the set pieces,
the performances, the costumes, the music, it is all impeccable
except for that story.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Except for that story. It is it makes me insane.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
It makes me insane because Wicked is such a deeply complex, difficult,
gritty political story. And anybody who thinks that Broadway is
just all bubblegum nonsense, I'm gonna need you to go
watch more plays because that's not true. So there's no
reason that we couldn't be there.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Emileiah tell us that what the ending of the book
is compared to the ending of the play and why
those changes feel so impactful because the the movie definitely
for good, definitely leans into the play and then even
expands the happy ending even more so. So could you
tell us a little bit about the book changes that
make such a big impact.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Yes, And before I get to that, I want to
be clear. I do like Wicked for Good, but I
like Wicked for Good in the exact same way that
I like Wicked the play, and that why.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Did you do this?
Speaker 5 (08:42):
So in the novel they're I like just telling you
the ending is sort of is sort of complicated because
there are a billion things that lead to it. But
Fierro doesn't turn into a scarecrow. Fierro is murdered. Doctor
Diliman doesn't lose his voice. Doctor Dillarmond is murdered. Alphaba
(09:02):
is allergic to water. So like the entire Oh, people
are so empty headed they believe anything.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Stop it, that's it, that's real.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
The function of a wicked is to be an exploration
of nature versus nurture. And they there's a line in
No One Mourns the Wicked that like, are people born wicked?
Or do they have a wickedness thrust upon them? And
that is the entire impetus of Maguire's book is was
the Wicked Witch of the West always evil? Is she
(09:35):
evil at all? Or was she made to be evil?
Now the flip side of that is that by the
time we have the climax of this story, Alphaba throp
is so furious and stricken with grief and rage that
she cannot see what is in front of her, at
(10:00):
least in the book, Glinda, Glinda giving the shoes away
isn't just some Oh yeah, I guess you can have
this dead girl shoes like it is in the movie.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
This dead girl who I felped get murdered. PS will
get to that, Laer. I'm sure.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
It's not just that it's she's trying to stop munchkin
Land from going into political disarray. And so the answer is,
give this random girl who fell in a house these shoes. Now,
Elfie furious, is like, she's going to take those straight
to the wizard who is destroying everything. Also, he's not
some fluffy little potunk idiot. He is absolutely a totalitarian,
(10:42):
lunatic dictator. So Elfie's furious, he's gonna take those shoes.
She's gonna take those shoes straight to the Wizard. We
cannot do this? How dare you?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
What is wrong with you? And again this is towards
the end of her story. So she has either lost.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Everything or been betrayed by anything, and the one friend
she has left is like, yeah, sure, let's give these
shoes and let them hop all over there.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Problem. So Dorothy Gaale goes to the Wizard. The Wizard says,
go kill Alphaba.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Same she goes to Camico Castle and says, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Here to kill you.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
I'm truly just here to apologize for dropping a house
on your sister. I don't know what the problem is.
I don't know why he's so angry. I'm just here
to say I'm sorry, and she begs for forgiveness.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Now, going back to the.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
Fierro death, Fierro and Alphaba don't have She doesn't like
skip away into the sunset with Glinda's fiance. Fierro is
very much married, has three kids, and they have an
illicit like awful affair.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
From which Lure is burned the son of a witch.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
So after everything happens, and after most of his family
is murdered by the wizard, she goes and begs for forgiveness.
His wife is like, girl, no, but the rest of
the rest of the family is like, sure, you can
stay here for eight years and like learned to be
a witch whatever. So then all of them are viciously
murdered by the wizard, except for nor who is kept
as a slave because again the wizard is a despot,
(12:15):
an absolute demon monster piece of garbage.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So all of them are murdered.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Then this random girl who drops a house on her
sister and walks around with these deeply powerful shoes that
could like destroy everything if they end up in the
Wizard's hand shows up and is like.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Will you forgive me? And Elfie flips out. She flips out,
this is her last Straw whoms to argue, you're begging
for forgiveness. You murdered my sister. I cannot do this.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
So she's flailing all over the place. Her broom's on fire,
she's yelling. She accidentally sets her skirt on fire. Dorothy
grabs a bucket of water, tries to rescue her, melts
the witch. Then Dorothy takes the bottle of green alixir
that is left behind takes it to the Wizard. That's
how the Wizard realizes that Alphaba is his real daughter,
(13:03):
freaks out, knows that he has to escape.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Oz.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Manages to escape Oz right before the coup that is
meant to slaughter him arrives at a doorstep, so he
gets out safe. Oz is left in political disarray. Now,
the function of this ending is meant.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
To be difficult. It's meant to be difficult.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
And when you know, we go into these things as
critics and you constantly have the conversation of am I
mad that this wasn't what I wanted to be?
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Or am I mad that it didn't.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Fulfill its promise as a film, And in this case,
it's I'm mad that this film didn't fulfill its promise
because what makes Part one of Wicked so good is
that John M. Chew and the writers introduce so much
(13:56):
more of the politics into Part one don't see in
the play at all. That is a huge part of
the reason as to why the first film is longer
than the entire play. So in that transaction, John M.
Chew and the writers set up an expectation of maybe
(14:18):
perhaps we will tell a more meaningful ending to this
story beyond it's fine if you lie, if you're nice,
and you know what, the Wizard of Oz in this
story also started off with good intentions. So all you
have done is restart the cycle with your saying bubblegum nonsense.
(14:42):
It makes me insane. Ending of this play and now
the subsequent ending of the film, it didn't have to
be that way, should they have gone with the ending
of the book. Also know, because audiences wouldn't have known
what to do with that, with the overarching aspect of
this story. But there is a answer in between those
two extremes that help solve the problem, and it's your
(15:05):
job as a creative team making the fourth adaptation of
this story to find that. And that takes us to
Wicked for Good's biggest problem which is it is so
beholden to the Wizard of Oz. And I'm sorry, but
when you're an adaptation of an adaptation of an adaptation
of an adaptation, you no longer have to attach yourself
(15:26):
to these things as tightly as you find it necessary
to do so. And I think No Place Like Home
is such a perfect example of that, because that song
is great.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
It's a great song. If you don't have that line
no place like Home.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
We got a positive this is This is to me
like the moment, right, this is the moment where I
immediately start veering away from the Stephanie Mills originates Dorothy
in The Whiz and sings Home, which is now a
Broadway standard. This song is so clearly trying to pay
homage to that song, but through a character who does
(16:02):
not and has not yet made this space her home.
What are we doing? Why is this here? I again,
beautifully sung. It's also a problem for me because this
is where you introduce in this story the plight of
the animals, which, to your point, Amelia, I was like,
I understand, you can't go as political as the book.
It's not as dark as the book's not meant to
(16:23):
be already set it up to be this very colorful,
poppy musical. I don't anticipate you going the book rout,
but the book is good because it makes you question things,
and it's actually trying to explore and ponder really deep
rich questions which we get in the first book.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And if this is.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Called for good and your final thing is about how
this friendship has made us both better human beings and
you have to fucking show me that. Sorry, And I
think you could have done that to me when I said.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Like, let me pitch John in the studio an idea
real quick?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
What if instead of so closely following both the musical
and trying adhere to this original film slash book.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Again, an adaptation of an adaptation of an adaptation, Uh
what if you? I had focused on Alphaba.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Working with the animals and figuring that out and making
that your political event. With this whole idea of like
what is home when we currently look at our country
and immigration and politicians who don't necessarily speak for you,
there's a lot of themes you can very lightly play
with that aren't too overbearing.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I also think is a problem they were.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
I'm not sure if this was what we're trying to
protect Ariana or if we don't want you to hate
Glinda too much. At the end, Glinda needs to make
a turn to do bad things, and she needs to
acknowledge and embrace doing the bad things instead of being
I'm just.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Dumb in area.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I didn't know what was happening.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
They did what now crazy?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I just never dawned on me. I don't at first.
I don't like women like this. I think it's really upsetting.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
I don't think Arianna needs to be infantilized or Glinda.
Glinda makes some really strong choices that are really cruel
and hurt a lot of people. She has the most
useful song with the best cinematography ever. But maybe it's
time for my bubble to pop. The bubble is really
popping for you. Nothing changes, You keep all of your power.
Your friends are gone essentially, but you have kind of
(18:05):
already just say goodbye to them. He's but oh my god, guys,
the mirror scenes with John really showed. He was like,
He's like, I'm.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
A director like you are.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
John also gets a really great wedding scene in here,
which if you love the wedding and crazy rich Asians.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Strap in because it's over the tom just gorgeous.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
But I don't understand why we couldn't have had these
very surfacy still reminiscent of the first film, sort of
overhaul rewrite of like Alphaba helping the animals, learning a little.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Bit about herself.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Hey, you have some privilege and power. Maybe you're not
acknowledging in this moment. Maybe we get a little bit
more of her and Fierro because that, guys, I don't
want to be too u outside of the movie, but
these two very homosexual people trying to convince me they're
in love with each other was not working. I don't
think that's their fault. They're great actors. I've both seen
them play straight before. I know they can. I'm not
(18:55):
saying gays can't play straight. I really love when they do.
We need opportunities.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
But my god, I don't buy the romance.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I I do have to disagree, only slightly, because I
think what comes through is love for each other. Do
I think that they're probably gonna have a heterosexual LoveFest
night in clothes that were apparently knitted by like animals,
A sexy two piece knitted by forest animals. No, but
(19:24):
I do want to say, I think you guys are
both one. Amelia, thank you so much for the book law,
because I do think it's gonna be such a big
talking point. But would also say I do think there
was a lot of missopportunities here, because I do think,
for example, I think the chemistry casting between the three
of them is so good that there are moments where
even when I was the Dorothy stuff where You're just like, Glinda,
(19:47):
what the fuck? And I feel like, actually, in that
moment where they showed Glinda saying it and that you know,
oh go for her sister, start a rumor and you
have the Wizard and Miss Marrable behind her, that was
such a scared shot. I was like, Okay, they're leaning
into it. They know this is a terrible thing to do,
and it kind of gets skipped over. But even then,
moments after that, when Ariana Grande is like screaming for Fiero,
(20:12):
even after she's acknowledged that he loves Alphaba, there is
magic in the way that those three all love each other.
And I'm gonna just say something. I know I was
saying it last night, so were other people in the
theater when we watched it, but like on Monday Night,
I should say. But also guys, like the chemistry between
Arianna and Cynthia is so good that for it seems dumb.
(20:33):
Like there were guys coming out who are never usually
the make it gay kind of guys, who were like, okay,
but they were shooting it like they were gonna kiss,
Like the final moments are for good. They shoot it
so their faces look really close together, and they they
very much. But I'm just like even a cheek kiss.
There is a German staging where they do kiss and
they use the same dance from that staging. When they
(20:54):
did the Osdusk Ball, they used certain movements, so people
were hoping, I don't and as we know in the book,
book is very queer. There's all different kinds of relationships
in it, so I didn't expect them to come out
and be like they're gay. But I do think that
they missed out on just how fantastic that casting was
to mix it up a little bit and make it
more obviously a thropple an a a three kind of
(21:18):
way romance, because I think that that is actually one
of the things that made the first movie so good
is that main trio of casting because honestly, they all
seem kind of gay and that works for me in
that version. Now, guys, before we leave, I could talk
to you about this all day. I do want to
grab some box office predictions from you, guys, because the
(21:40):
first movie was a smash it. Amelia, what do you
think the opening domestic for Wicked for Good is going
to be? Do you think it's still gonna have a
massive opening weekend with a drop off? What's your thoughts?
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Oh, yeah, it's it's still It's still gonna blow the
roof off. It doesn't matter that it's worse. People just
people just want to see these three together. People are
going to be very disappointed because everybody's separate, like it's
but like I think the conversations around it are are
(22:11):
what's going to spark that intrigue. Like, for example, I
fall between the two of you in the in the
chemistry situation, Like listen, as Long as Your Mind is
one of the best songs. I love it so much,
and I do agree with you, Rosie that those two
people have so much chemistry and once they get rolling,
it's believable. But they just start the song and then
(22:36):
start peeling off their clothes and it's so word at first,
I need a little four play.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
It should have led up to a kiss.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
It makes no sense, but I love you both office numbers, right, Yeah,
That's what I'm saying, is like that that intrigue of
like that conversation around like I don't know that was
so weird.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
People want to see that for themselves. They want to
like they want to know, like what's going on here?
Because I believe all of these people have this level
of chemistry and so like what went wrong there?
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Again? Cancer for play, let's have some. But but I.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
Think I think it's going to be twofold in a
people are going to show up for this, regardless whether
that's right or wrong. Bu there are aspects that critics
and like people like us are are dissecting that that
they want to know more about. Tell me about this awkwardness,
(23:35):
tell me about this ending, like it can't possibly be
that bad.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
It can.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Like those those moments are like a people, Well.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Now I'm curious and I have to know more about it,
whether it's good or bad. So I still think it's
going to blow the roof off. It might even be
the last one who can say Joe out any.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Forty thousand dollars opening weekend, shorter tail than fifty fifty
million opening weekend, and then a shorter tail than the
original had.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I just don't think the reason.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I need to give you a reality check. I love you.
The first movie opens like one hundred and sixty. I
don't think there's no way. I don't there's no way
it's doing fifty. It's easily over one hundred. I think
it could open to two and have like an eighty
percent drop off. But I also think that they are
doing double bills, and I do think if I was universal,
(24:26):
I would have encouraged or offered to basically every press
come and see it as part of a double bill,
because I actually am very interested to watch the two
of them together, because I think the second act will
be complimentary to the first act, as it is in
the play. I'm going for a round. I think it
could be anywhere between like one hundred and forty to
two hundred, depending on how much critics impact it, and
(24:48):
I don't think that will be much. But I do
think it's not gonna have as long legs, like you said, Joelle,
because a lot of the longer legs came from Oscar
people from people who like those girls are not getting
their oscars. This movie and the new songs are not
getting Oscar noms. Golden is gonna win, obviously. Yeah. An
interesting an interesting end or not end, because I will
(25:11):
say one of the big reasons in this you can
blame on corporate cynicism that this movie had the ending
it did and actually even expanded out the happy ending
from the movie is because there will be a Wicked
three and Ariana Grane is already talking about it, already
teasing it. They do not want to give up this movie,
so let's see if it makes enough money for them
(25:32):
to try and expand because Amelia, as you've said, if
they keep taking from the gregory stuff, there's no way
they can keep it being Pg. Thirteen and keep these
hooks in people. So I'm interested to see what happened next.
Definitely a mixed bag, but yes, Wicked for good. It's
out this weekend, and I agree with you, Amelia Discourse
Havers will enjoy this movie. Yeah, let's go to a
(25:55):
quick ad break. Joelle, thank you so much for joining us.
We appreciate you, and then we.
Speaker 7 (25:59):
Will go straight in to the mighty nine and.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
We're back, and I've joined once again by Amelia. Amelia,
thanks for sticking around for a completely different magical world.
So if you guys haven't watched Fox Marketerer or The
mighty nine, we are going to be digging in with
Amelia Embowing, one of the foremost Mighty nine and legend
(26:40):
of Fox Marketer hosts and writers who recently actually hosted
the mighty nine NYCC panel to launch the show. Amelia
is an incredible host who was an editor at IGN.
She was my editor. She was also my editor at
What to Watch. She's also a brilliant writer with credits
at DC Comics, Nerdiced and many more. And she has
(27:03):
built an incredible relationship with the creatives behind these two
fantastic animated questing shows that have been a huge smash
on Amazon Prime. So, Melia, could you tell us a
little bit about how you started that relationship and what
your journey to Critical World was.
Speaker 5 (27:25):
Well, like, it's obviously this world is so intrinsically rooted
in D and D.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I don't play D and D. So my first.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
Introduction was the legend of ox Machina, which I think
is so remarkable. You know, I love me and misfits story,
and that's very much the energy here. And then beyond that,
like obviously I started doing more and more interviews with
them and just.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Sort of built a rapport with the cast.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
Part of that was possible because the woman who gave
me my start in this industry as a whole back
in the Amy Poehler Smart Girls days was Rachel Romero,
who was there one of their directors, like one of
their like she can't remember her exact title, but she like.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
It was marketing pr something like that.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
We reconnected throughout that process, and and you know, I
spoke to the cast more, and now we're at a
point where, like we we just have a really good rapport,
so it's really easy to work together or or build
good segments around around that. So far as New York
Comic Con is concerned, Like I am endlessly so thankful
(28:41):
that they allow me to participate as a teeny tiny
part of their world.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Obviously on that one, I'm I'm just a conduit.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
I'm just there asking the questions to to to give them.
You know, the platform seems like the wrong word because
they wouldn't ever need me for a platform, But like
you understand, like I'm there.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Moderation is about helping have the best conversation. Do that,
but you are actually great at so yeah, it is
like being a vote. It's kind of like being like
you said, you're just that to help them share the
best stuff.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Yeah, Like there's so I always talk about the difference
between like being a moderator and doing an interview, like
those are two different things. When you're a moderator, I'm
there to make them look good. I am there to
to act as a act as a conduit between them
and the audience. And like for me, as somebody who
(29:38):
doesn't play D and D and is broadly just in
love with these shows, I like, I like to come
at it from that perspective because I think something that
has really helped me in this journey and like getting
to know Critical Role better is understanding that I will
never know more about this world than critters do. And
(30:02):
so like obviously we come to the other things that
we cover as not no walls, but like these these
experts who know, like I know more about Lord of
the Rings and the general audience member, I can provide
a service to the audience in that regard. But when
it comes to Critical Role, it really challenged me to
(30:24):
change the way that I come at coverage through the
way I interview stuff like that, because there's no question
that I'm asking that critters don't already know the answer to.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
So that helped me change the.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
Way that we discuss, discuss all of it, the way
the way I interview with them, the way I moderate
with them, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
If you're going to pitch the Legend of Volksmakana to
someone who's never watched it, because it has been a
way more accessible hit than I think probably even Amazon realized,
there's a huge imbount base, like you said, so obviously
it's a smart bet to walk with them. But I
found so many people who'd never played D and D
who loved this show. So if somebody hasn't listened to
(31:09):
Vox Macana doesn't know what they're getting into with the
Mighty Nine, what would be your pitch on the shows?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
So first and foremost, it's so so critical.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
Yeah, it's so very important to know that Mighty nine
and the Legend of Box Machina are completely different stories.
By design, all of these characters are very different, so
they're all they're all lovable misfits, but in in the
(31:41):
legend of Vox Macina, they're they're outcasts. In the mighty nine,
they're all very much anti heroes, like they're There's there's.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Some moral ambiguity in the legend of Vox Machina, but.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Mostly they are beloved goofy fuck ups that have been
ostracized for one reason or another. Vexenbax have like are
are distanced from their father. Keelith is constantly trying to
prove herself. Pike is like trying to like constantly reckoning
(32:19):
with her faith. Scanlon is in this go between of
I want desperately to be loved and to love, but
I'm afraid to have that or lose that, So I'm
just going to be a goofy goober, you know, all
of these things, and in critical or Sorry. In the
(32:41):
legend of Oxmakna, all of them sort of add their
comic relief at different moments of time.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
In the ninety nine, that'll be a little bit different,
not entirely.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
All of these characters are funny in different ways, but
maybe more snarky than goofy, or maybe just more dead
pan than silly. It is intentionally a much more difficult
story I think Nerdiced was the one who went with
the headline of mighty nine is all dungeons.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
No dragons. That's very much true.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Vox Machina is very rooted, like it's it's very much
a dragon story. There are like that's you're going against
the Chroma Conclave. That is a huge aspect of all
of this in this overarching story in mighty nine, it's
it's different. It's it's still got so much magic, but
(33:32):
it's it's more ground level than you might think. And
none of that is derogatory. It's just really important that
people understand that they're coming into a story that is, yes,
a part of Xandria, but also also like it's grittier.
I've used that several times throughout this conversation, but like
(33:53):
that's that's a great explanation for it is like it's
it's more down in the dirt.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
It's it's more these people, these people deserve to be
loved and are lovable, but they are not lovable.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Misfits, if that makes sense. They are they are people
going across their journeys. And I think Travis is the
one who brings this up a lot because it is
really important to know with Vox Makana, we start with
the team already together. They're already connected, they already have
their own little backstories and and that sort of connection.
In mightighty nine, that is not the case. We are
(34:27):
watching these people come together, and that journey will be bumpy,
like not in Caleb's sort of immediately come together, even
though there's a will they like, will she turn against him?
Won't she turn against him? That pretty much get the
episodes are out today, the episode check that it gets
(34:53):
resolved by the time we get to the other side
of this, this first batch of episodes. But you know,
there's always that question, you know, we we we get
we get them coming together at different points, which I
think is really important that they released these first three
because people who go in not knowing that these people
(35:17):
are not starting together, like it's very important so that
they get to the other side.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
And all of these are.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Our well almost our Yeah, they're like.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
They're in the forty to fifty minute range rather than
the twenty to thirty. So these are longer, deeper, more
complex stories with a with a deeper darkness to them
than Vox Machina does.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
And I would say is and this is set twenty
years off the Volksmakina, Right, it's like I mean, it's
like a it's like same well, different timeline. Because one
of the coolest things about the show, and one of
the things that I think has drawn so many people
to it is the original cost of Cret Coral will
come back and do the voice acting right, So it
is really it's a crazy cast. You have your big
(36:03):
Vox Marketer people like Travis and Sam, but you also
have Ashley Johnson, you have Laura Bailey, Talis and Jaffy
like that, who is another critical role guy. So they
really do a fantastic job at of bringing in iconic
voice acting talent. But also in this season we get
(36:23):
Lucy Lou so they're also kind of broadening with the
popularity who we get to hear in the show. This
is in my opinion, and I worked on a piece
with you when you're still at IGN. We did a
state of animation piece. Vox Markner and maighty nine are
a big reason I think that adults are in America
are embracing animation. So if we have listeners who have
(36:46):
yet to take that step and still think about Disney
or still think about kid stuff, how would you describe
the kind of visual landscape of these shows, because they
are actually incredibly brutal and bloody, and but the animation
is stunning.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
Yeah, uh tit mouse is is so exceptional as an
animation studio. Obviously, there is so much depth to both
Box Machina and Mighty nine, but they are also just
visually beautiful and taking it a step beyond that. The
sound design is so critical for that aforementioned like darkness
(37:30):
that you were discussing, like we watch people die tragically,
it will it will get worse in mighty nine, and
like so much of.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
That is is.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
Is not just in the core cast's performances, but it's
also in the way that the sound mixing comes through,
like the guttural noises, like the sounds that you make
as you die, Like it's not it's not fluffing those up,
it's not making it prettier, it's not make it more digestible.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Obviously, anime is in this.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
Huge moment right now, and I would say to any
anime fan at all, like you're gonna love.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
This, and also as well, I would say these are
two great in road shows for that because they also
stand apart from many of the other things that we
are watching at all times, which is homework shows. Now,
the good thing about both of these shows is if
you love them, you can go back and have hundreds
and hundreds of hours of incredible entertainment with these characters,
(38:33):
with these voices. But you do not have had to
enjoy any of that. In fact, you can just jump
into either of these as an action heavy, violent adult show.
If you are our listeners and you have listened to
watched Invincible, which I'm sure many of you have, and
have We've spoken about a lot of the highs and lows.
This is very akin in the notion of the ways
(38:56):
that it stretches the boundaries of what you expect to
see in an act animated series. So I'm really excited
for everyone to check this out. Amelia. Do you know
if this world is going to continue to grow as
the Critical Role success just continues to roll on.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
I mean, so, I don't think Amazon's standing in their way,
because obviously they've ben a huge hip for them. I
would say that more sits on the shoulders of the
Critical Role team, like whether or not they want to
do that now mighty nine is doing, is doing two seasons.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Right off the bat, which we know already.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
I don't see a reason why they would stop, especially
given their incredible partnership with Titmouse. You know, they love
they love working with those teams. I suspect that we
will see all of these campaigns in this form because
we're they're on four now. So I also, like, I
(40:05):
think it's so important that you mentioned the you don't
have to know all of this, all of this contact
that word uh to dive into this, because that's something
that that I talked to the cast about so much
in interviews is a you know, talk about why you
(40:26):
made this decision to make it accessible for everybody, but
be talk about how you've changed it. Because you mentioned Ashley,
and one of the remarkable things about both vox Manchina
and Mighty nine is that there were so many things
happening during during the recording of those original campaigns. You know,
Ashley and Laura kept getting pulled into acting gigs and
(40:50):
so or or life happened like travel, Laura had a baby.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Uh, you know, there were all.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
Of these things that happened that meant that people couldn't
always be there to record.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
And now that they're doing them. Now we get more
of those.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
Characters, and the story is changing and evolving, and it's
still true to the original the original campaign, but there's
also more of it, or it's slightly different, or there's
there is always a surprise for even the critters who
know everything and the people who don't. And I think
to go back to your original point of whether or
(41:25):
not this will continue, Yes, so long as both parties
want to keep doing it. The audience eats it up
because there is something there for the hundreds of thousands
of critters and also the all of the new people
who come to the show without knowing anything, and that's
what's going to keep them fresh for literally as long
(41:46):
as they want to keep making these shows.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah. Well, I'm very excited for everyone to see The
mighty nine. We were big fans of volks Makina when
it came out when we were doing X ray Vision
kind of early on in our career, and yeah, I
really excited for people to check this one out. Let
us know what you think about it in the discord,
and Amelia, thank you again for joining us with your
deep insights in the world of Voxmarkana in the mighty nine.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Thank you so much for having me and a great.
Speaker 8 (42:13):
Time, and we're back and I am here with the
beautiful super producer Common Laurent.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
How are you doing, babe?
Speaker 9 (42:36):
I am doing so well. Thank you for having me
Hers so that we could talk about the fabulous meteor
Roids series.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Not the Meteoroid series.
Speaker 10 (42:46):
That's how I started calling it earlier on Guys, and
then I almost called it that when I introduced the show,
but no, it's really called the Metroid prior series Metroid Okay,
So Common, I actually want to ask you, similar to
when I was speaking to the one full of Melia
who join us today.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
What's your journey with Metroid because this is definitely a
franchise that you really love and in the leader to
Metroid Prime for coming out, it was your most anticipated game.
But we will get to that.
Speaker 9 (43:14):
Yes, absolutely it was. We'll get to that.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (43:18):
I you know, as you as the listeners will know.
I am a huge fan of Alien. That is like
one of my favorite sci fi horror franchises, probably the
top one for me. And if you love Alien, you're
gonna love Metroid because what is Metroid inspired by Alien?
And so immediately once I realized those things as a kid.
(43:42):
I put that, you know, two and two together, and
I just remember thinking.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Like, oh, this is so cool.
Speaker 9 (43:47):
I would be like, oh, did you know that the
monster in Metroid is called Ripley Ridley because that's the
character's name from Alien and it's an homage. And you know,
I love to really kind of lay those facts on people.
As a little nerdy child.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
It's important for us to have those things that we
can nerd out about. You know, it shapes a lot
of our lives. That was like me in comic books.
You know, it's important to have those playground things where
you can be like, well, did you know? Did you know?
Absolutely so, I'm glad that was this for you. Do
you remember playing it for the first time and having
that realization at the end that she's a she's a
(44:29):
little girl.
Speaker 9 (44:30):
Yes, I remember.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I was.
Speaker 9 (44:33):
I was standing in my neighborhood target playing on a
little game Boy Advanced handheld demo and it was the
first game I played, was the Metroid Prime Fusion game,
which was the game Boy Advance game. And yeah, when
I died in the game, her suit falls off and
(44:57):
it's revealed, Oh my god, she's a bad a woman
who's kicking us over there and immediately fell in love
with the series from there. And yeah, so I have
followed the franchise through lots of different gaming systems, on
handheld and on console, and I was definitely really excited
(45:23):
for the lead up of the Metroid Prime for it's
taken a long time actually since the game.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Was gonna say it's not been great.
Speaker 9 (45:34):
Yeah, there's been a rocky road in terms of production,
and so that's always worrisome. You know. I started to
think at one point that we were never even going
to see the game like that they were just going
to like, I hope that we had forgotten about it
and brush it.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
I feel like that for a little bit. I'm not
gonna lie. There was a moment and I mean it
was like scraped. It was started.
Speaker 9 (46:02):
We started with retro the original studio because m Yeah,
so it had a multiple like starting and stopping moments there.
So that's always worrisome. We see last what was it
earlier this year, we see the first teaser trailer and
you know, I'm excited to see Samus in a purple suit.
Excited about that. I'm not gonna lie, and she's got
(46:23):
a motorcycle.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Big question I want to ask you, Yeah, how do
you feel about Metroid not being a two D side scroller?
Because there's some games that I think can evolve past that.
But as someone who grew up playing a lot of platformers,
I really struggled when they made you know, a shut
over the Hedgehog and suddenly it was a third person
like you're following someone through a three D world, Like
(46:46):
I missed the platform and nature and the side scrolling
nature of it. Of course that has evolved. How do
you feel, which I mean, obviously this is a character
I think can definitely successfully exist outside of that, the
Metroid four is pushing it into an open and well
scenarios that really different.
Speaker 9 (47:03):
Yes, yes, the Metroid Prime series is well loved, you know,
and and I do love the first Metroid Prime game
most especially is a very excellent Metroid game. I would
argue that it's like the only that particular first Metroid
Prime game is the only truly good first person shooter
(47:28):
of Metroid where it's in three D. The other games
are a little bit weaker. They don't really like establish
like the gameplay and the story enough to be really interesting.
And so when I heard that there was going to
be a fourth game. I was really excited, but yeah,
it is one of those I started thinking about it,
(47:49):
especially now that we've seen that it is going to
be open world. The open world to me, obviously, I'm
still I should preface all of this and say I'm
still going to buy this game and play it. Yeah,
it comes out because I am a die hard fan.
I played Metroid other M when that came out, which
was very controversial and a very bad game. So there
(48:11):
have been times too when it has been a two
D side scroller and it didn't work, and that is
an you know, Metrod other M is one example. But
for the most part, the franchise is a two D
side scroller game, platforming game, and I think, so far,
in my view, it excels best at that. Yeah, and that,
(48:32):
you know, most recently we had Metroid Dread that came out,
which was a two D side scroller, very very good,
excellent game. But it's one of those franchises that I
think is tricky to figure out how to adapt into
a three D first person shooter style.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yeah, I agree. So let me ask you some some
hot talking points about this game. There has been a
lot of controversy because there was kind of the first
gameplay impressions came out and this was published today by
polygon Y, and basically a lot of the talk was
(49:14):
about this character, Miles Mackenzie, who's this kind of Quippi
nerd from the Galactic Federation, and he's gonna be snapping
and chatting, and people are kind of freaking out because
a lot of the thing that and he's white guy, psychic,
and a lot of people are kind of confused because
(49:35):
some of the stuff that has made Metroids so iconic
is the quiet, the isolation, Samus's journey on herself. So
is there gonna be too much Federation law, is there
gonna be too many characters? Or do you think maybe
people are so worried? And actually this is just building
(49:57):
on kind of those little teasers that we got the
original screens talking about the Galactic Federation, Like does that
kind of stuff make you excited, worried or not at
all kind of impact your feelings about the game going
in As a lifelong fan.
Speaker 9 (50:12):
No, I definitely agree that the game's One of the
core elements of the games is that they are happening
in isolation, and Samus mostly is having to explore these
like landscapes in total isolation, which is part of what
makes it kind of scary and kind of, you know, suspenseful.
(50:32):
I this is actually the first I'm hearing about this
Miles character, so it does seem like he is going
to be kind of a Navvy inspired character that is
going to be constantly in your ear, kind of saying
things that you. I am worried about that that to me,
(50:53):
is not a Metroid Prime game player experience.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Do any of us need an extra white guy in
our evrrect gast advice? There's enough of that, guys. But
I will say I'm not gonna lie I have Obviously
a huge game for me in the last few years
was Breath of the Wild, as it was for everyone else,
completely changed the way I played games, not at all
what you would expect from a Zelda game, in my opinion,
probably still my favorite Zelda game of all time, taking
(51:20):
over from a Jura's Mask. So I will say there
are potential spaces where this can work. I also will
say I really love the newer pokemons, which I know
have not been hugely popular, from Let's Go Eve to
Scarlet and Violet. Despite all the issues. The riding around
on a motorcycle exploring is really fun, and that does
(51:41):
seem like what they're leaning into here, But from the screenshots,
it does not necessarily look like it's gonna avoid some
of the pitfalls of those kind of games like Pokemons,
specifically where there's not necessarily the money or time going
in to make sure that this which version doesn't have
weird finishing coints. Yeah, strange glitches and all of that
(52:05):
stuff I've grown up with and lived with my whole life.
But I do feel like with Metroid Prime four, or
as it is officially called, Metroid Prime Beyond Correct, I
do feel like here they would really have to come
out with a game changing version of an Open World
for it to really hit.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (52:27):
Yeah, and I think I think Open World is kind
of like a big risk that a lot of games
are taking these days, and it can be it's very
hit or miss. I still think that there are going
to be elements of this game that are going to
be very fun and very exciting. Yeah, and I'm sure
like certain parts. I'm sure riding around on the motorcycle
is probably going to be the most fun part of
(52:49):
it for me. That little tron bike that she that
she has. Yeah, so you know, I think it's good
to take. I'm glad that we're like taking these, but
I do want them to be more considered a little bit,
especially with a game franchise like Metroid. Who uh, you know,
I just feel like the Metroid franchise hasn't hasn't been
(53:12):
done its justice over the years.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
You know, I agree, and I would also say as well.
The problem, I think is because of that. Everyone is
hoping that this can be that next level kind of game,
but it looks empty. That's the biggest problem that a
lot of people have had. When you drive around you know,
obviously Breath of the Wild, whether you're on a deer,
whether you're on a horse, whether you're on a cool motorbike,
(53:37):
there is on endless things to see. I still have
never finished that game properly because I just pick plants
and cook and add things to my book. It feels
like you're really in another world. Even with Pokemon. There
are many different lands to explore. There's always Pokemon running around.
Even if it is not as textured and incredible as
Breath of the Wild, it is full. What we have
(53:59):
seen so far is that the gameplay from this does
not look like it is from twenty twenty four twenty
twenty five. Even the graphics do not look particularly powerful.
There is on the Wikipedia a very notorious image of
shit Samus kind of like shooting these aliens and it
looks so zerosy Doom era graphics and then exactly and
(54:25):
while that could be a choice, because we are also
getting some really incredible retro throwback games now with like
Marvel Cosmic Invasion coming out soon the recent Ninja Tittles remasters,
but that is not what this is trying to do.
This feels like it's trying to be a tripol a
game for the Nintendo Switch to that maybe they have
(54:47):
not necessarily built out the way they need to come.
What would this game need before we jump off and aboo,
please do not put that out into the universe. That's
what you have some met train movie are in a
metroid movie stars, Sidney, sweetie, you are cussing us. I'm like,
let's just make Common the star. If we're going to
cast the blonde women, guys, come on Common. What would
(55:10):
you need for this movie too? I mean for this
game to blow you out of the water and be
a success, Like what would be the thing?
Speaker 9 (55:22):
Uh, oh, my goodness. I think it needs to successfully
tied together the elements from where we left off on
the third game basically, and.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Also eighteen years ago.
Speaker 9 (55:34):
Yeah, eighteen years ago by the way we left off
on the third game, and it needs to kind of
move the story forward. I need to feel like the
open world is justified. I need to feel like it's
not just thrown in there just to just to say
that they did it, you know what I mean? And
I I need it to be I think varied a
(55:58):
lot of what we have seen so far of the
open world shots they've shown it. The one shot that
they keep showing us of the open world is like
a desert, which is, like it.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Nice, nobody needs that, Yeah, and we need to drive
across the.
Speaker 9 (56:13):
Desert, So I'm like, that looks really boring. I want
to see like we saw in the initial trailer. We
saw that really rich kind of it was a cutscene
shot of a really rich, dense green area. But I
want to see more of that, and I want to
know that there's going to be multiple little like areas
like that and not just one and then a bunch
(56:35):
of desert surrounding it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Yeah, so exactly. Hoping for a surprise, hoping for a surprise.
But guys, this movie, this game is coming out in
just a couple of weeks, so it's gonna be interesting
to see if this will be another huge flop for
twenty twenty five or if it will be an unexpected surprise.
Speaker 9 (56:59):
Well I have I can tell you one thing. Nintendo
is going to be selling a Nintendo switch To to
my household for this game, so well, I am buying
switch too.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
First of all, switch To. It's worth it, guys. Even
if you're just like me and you're just playing games
you could play on your Switch one, but you're playing
them on a giant, beautiful screen really fast. And if
you're playing an indie game, it's the most beautiful thing
you've ever seen. The indie game on. It does not
have a lot of the issues of the Steam deck
where it cannot play certain games. But I have yet
to commit to a full remastered Triple A game on there.
(57:35):
Come and I will tell you and to listeners if
you are hoping to buy Metroid Prime for I will
say it is going to be seventy dollars if you
buy it from Nintendo directly, but there are multiple pre
order offers that I saw from multiple different big box
stores currently where you can get it for almost twenty
dollars cheaper. So shop around, guys. It's Christmas is coming. Ye,
(57:56):
you love a discouser out there, The deals are out there,
and yeah, let's see what happens. I love a psychic power,
I love a girl in a cool mech suit, and
I love a motorbike. So fingers crossed, do something a
little bit, a little bit different, but we will see you.
Speaker 9 (58:10):
I'm excited. Thank you, Rosie of.
Speaker 1 (58:12):
Course, thanks for having thanks for joining me. Enjoy the
game when it does come out, and we'll definitely we'll
definitely have you back on to talk about it. Okay,
that's the episode. Thank you for listening, Thanks to my
incredible guests, and we'll be back tomorrow with the biggest
nerd news of the week.
Speaker 11 (58:31):
Bye x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and
Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 11 (58:46):
Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 1 (58:48):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dian Jonathan and Fay Wack.
Speaker 11 (58:52):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (58:57):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny good Then
and Heidi our discord moderator hmm
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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