March 29, 2022 • 35 mins
In 2018, Hillary (like so many other people) discovered comedian Hannah Gadsby through her breakout Netflix special Nanette. The show shook up the comedy world by exposing the ways that even the best intentioned stand-up can inflict trauma on comedian and audience members alike when it invites us to laugh about misogyny, homophobia, fat-phobia, and other forms of hatred and prejudice. Having grown up non-gender conforming and gay in Tasmania, Australia’s deeply conservative island state, Hannah spoke from experience.
Hannah followed Nanette with another Netflix special, Douglas, which explored the aftermath of her relatively late-in-life diagnosis of autism. She will soon be touring with her latest live show, Body of Work, and just released a new memoir, Ten Steps to Nanette. Hillary was eager to talk to Hannah about how her life, and her comedy, have evolved since Nanette. As you’ll hear, they found lots of other things to talk about as well, from physical therapy to healing from trauma, and dealing with online trolls.
You can find a full transcript HERE.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You and Me Both is a production of I Heart
Radio Hannah. Hannah Gadsby, Hello Hillary, Is that what I
called you? Or is it Madame Secretary? Or Hillary? Is
my name? Hilly Billy, Hilly Billy. I will not call
you that, of course, now that you have it in
your head, you'll never forget it. It's true. And no William,
(00:21):
Oh my god. Well yeah, I've been calling a lot worse,
as have you. So I'm Hillary Clinton and this is
you and Me Both on today's episode. I'm talking to
one of my favorite comedians. Though in my mind, she's
much more than a comedian. She's also a provocative thinker
(00:41):
who challenges her audiences to do some serious thinking too.
Like many people, I first discovered Hannah Gadsby in eighteen
when I saw her breakout Netflix comedy special Nannette. That
show was a huge success, earning Hannah an Emmy and
a Peabody Award, which game as a surprise to her because,
(01:04):
as she puts it, Nanette is arguably the most deliberately miserable,
unfunny hour of comedy ever made. If you haven't seen
it yet, the special begins with Hannah's trademark dry humor,
with self deprecating jokes about her appearance and about the
sexism and gender based violence she experienced in her life,
(01:27):
particularly growing up in Tasmania, the very conservative part of
Australia where she lived then. And this is a spoiler,
Hannah tells us she's quitting comedy because she no longer
wants to be party to a form of entertainment where
she introduces audiences to her trauma and then re traumatizes
(01:48):
herself by inviting us to laugh about it. As an example,
she shares the story of coming out as gay to
her mother because the response to me coming out when
first told her that I was a little bit lesbian
byby steps, her response. Her response was this, She's just gone, Oh, Hannah,
(02:13):
why did you have to tell me that that's not
something I to know? I mean, what if I told
you I was a murderer. It is pretty funny, but
as she points out, it's also very painful. Luckily for us,
(02:38):
Hannah did not quit comedy. Instead, she found a way
of doing it that does not require her to inflict
pain on herself or anyone else who's been victimized in
the ways that she has in Hannah released another Netflix
special called Douglas, which touches on a range of topics
(03:00):
from the patriarchy to anti vax ER's, her haters, her
own diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder or a s D,
which she received in and she's got a memoir coming
out right now called Ten Steps. Tune in net, Welcome
Hannah to the show. I am so happy to be
(03:22):
talking to you, but first I got to ask you.
I heard you broke your leg, real doozy. I fell
over walking in Iceland. Yeah, well, there's a lot of
ice in Iceland. They're not lying. It's on the label
very nice, nice healthcare system there. I had emergency surgery
and they looked after me. Great, have you done the
(03:44):
physical therapy that you've got to do in order to
get your strength back? Well, I've got to wait for
it to heal. So yeah, I've just had surgery. Can
you get back off a bit like I've caught plates
and screws in? Well? I can? I can move the foot? Yeah?
I broke my elbow about to I don't remember. Two
thousand and nine a long time ago. And you didn't
do the exercise it did? Oh? No, I did? I
(04:05):
did because I was I was scared out of my
mind that if I didn't, but I have like plates
and you know all that stuff, and I know, I mean,
it takes a while, but you've got to do the
exercises when they clear you to do it. So that's
that's my that's my physical therapy advice for the day.
And this is not what I expected, but I will
take it well. I was so excited to talk with
you because I have been a fan. I really appreciate
(04:31):
how you literally have approached not just your comedy, but
I guess your life in a way that kind of
shares it with the rest of us. And in it
seemed to me from afar that your life was turned
upside down because your stand up special, and then that
was released on Netflix, which is where I saw it.
(04:52):
People around the world like me met you for the
first time. And since then, you've put out another Netflix
special called Douglas. You're soon get hit the road once
your leg gets prepared and ready to do your new
show called Body of Work. You've also gotten married, another
big life event, and you've got a memoir coming out.
(05:12):
Holy moly, I mean, you have been one busy person.
How has your life changed and how if you can
describe how you feel about all this, because I mean,
was not that long ago, and so much has happened since. Well, yeah,
a lot happened in my life, and then a lot
happened globally that has nothing to do with me. So
(05:33):
it's how to get a measure on what has become
my life when the whole world has been turned upside down.
That's true. But for that brief window where I was
the center of the universe, it was a bit shocking.
I went like, because before this Netflix special dropped, I
would have classed myself as a successful comedian. I was
earning money. I was a living wage, which is not
(05:55):
something I've had before comedy b C as we like
to say. And I was regularly touring Australia in the UK,
so you know, Americans would not have heard of me,
but that does not preclude my existence. So the Netflix
special just put me up into this model of success
that was not something I was prepared for, mostly because
(06:19):
you just look out there and you just don't see
someone like me. And I say fair enough as well,
like I'm not everyone's cup of tea, you know, I know,
I'm a typical and not riddled with enthusiasm, and I
feel like that's what really gets you some success. So
I ran the analytics, and I didn't think I'd be
successful on on a global stage, and so I just
(06:40):
sat back and sat in my lane and did my work,
and I felt very disorientating to be you know, what
was the trickiest thing is famous people knowing who I was. Like,
it's one thing for a lot of you know, people
who I would say, I like me knowing who I was,
I'm like, well that's weird. But for famous people to
(07:00):
know who I am, I'm not the best person for
that because I don't always know who people are. So
I am just a faux pa waiting to happen. I'm
Hillary Clinton, and I'm really and we're so thrilled to
heavy on the spot. But you know, you grew up
in a place that I haven't yet visited, but I
you know, really been fascinated by for a very long
(07:22):
time called Tasmania. Uh what do you know about Tesmania?
Here's what given I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you what
I know and then and you can tell me how
wrong I am. It's a big island part of Australia,
but off the coast of Australia there are things called
the Tasmanian Devils. It's somewhat sparsely populated. It is both
(07:43):
agricultural and I guess you know, fishing and things like that.
It's beautiful, but it's also stark, and it's somewhat isolating
and quite conservative. That's what I know about it. You
did read my book, Yeah, it's it's um it's so
of like if you threw New Zealand into a gothic nightmare. Um.
(08:05):
I love Tasmania. I am from there. I grew up there.
It's all I knew for a very long time. But
the Tasmania that exists now is different to the one
that I grew up in. And I think that's a
really important point to make because it, like me, has
evolved and it's quite easy for a single person to
mature and grow up, but it's actually quite difficult for
(08:27):
a culture to mature and grow up in a short
space of time. And what did that was the gay
law reform that took place in the eighties and nineties.
It was fierce and it reached the global stage. I think,
you know, we might have made the New York Times once.
Um it was a really intense sort of conflation of
(08:49):
my own identity and my home's identity, because at that
time it was it was fiercely homophobic and proudly so,
and it was like, this is who we are, and
I was learning that that's who I was. And so
I was a debatable citizen in the most sort of
really vulnerable time of my life. And there's all sorts
of terrible things to talk about in that story, but
(09:13):
you could cut also to the positive headline that Tasmania
has some of the strongest human rights protections in Australian.
You know, I can't claim the world. It's a big place,
but I think we learned as a as a community
that we didn't like being divided like that, we didn't
like being painted as an accepting and you know this
(09:36):
sturely pockets still there, but as a as a whole,
I feel safe going back home where I never did before. Um.
So it's a long and dark history, but there is
that at the end of it. Well, I really like
the way you talk about it evolving because I know
that you know in the net when you talk about
your childhood and and how you first saw what you
(09:58):
call your people when you watch the Sydney Gay and
Lesbian Mardi Gras, and you saw people having a great
time and partying. And you know, you have a great
line where you say, well where do the quiet gays?
God always, I've never been to mad I just looks
a bit much. I'm very proud, but well, I just
(10:20):
have this image of you as as a young girl,
young woman in Tasmania and like so many other lgbt
Q kids, all of a sudden, not feeling alone, even
though it was just through a TV screen. It's one
of those It's a student of history. This this golds
me the most is each generation we have to prove
that we exist. And I am a student of history.
(10:43):
I know we've always existed. You just have to not
have the biases that blind you to that existence. And
right now it's happening to trans kids and gender quick kids,
and honestly that's where I am on the spectrum. I
have gender queer, but we didn't have the language when
I was growing up. So the bonus of not having languages,
(11:04):
you don't have the vitriol on the other side of
the language, and that's what we're going through now. I
feel a real sense of urgency about what I can
see happening now. I feel very also helpless because what's
happening to trans kids, particularly in the US, but also
in Australia, in the UK IS and elsewhere. My sure,
(11:26):
but it's now a hot topic. It's being it's a
plaything for people who want to motivate hatred in order
to generate votes and clicks. It's really toxic, and it's
become you know, they're dividing families that you know, even
running laws that parents and teachers who help trans kids
(11:48):
performing some kind of child abuse. And it's just like,
we can't solve the riddle of gender, but we can
be decent to our children. You know, doing untold damage
to trans kids and also kids who aren't you know,
kids who are burgeoning transphobs. We are doing damage to
them because you know, we're teaching kids that it's okay
(12:10):
to exclude. And really, if we're going to get through
climate change, we need everyone. We're taking a quick break.
Stay with us now. I want to tell you a
(12:30):
story about a terrible conversation I had at the dog park.
One this bloke just walks up to me. I mean,
he had a dog. He wasn't just being creepy. Had context,
and I don't want to tell you this, it's not
pertinent to the story, but I want you to know
his dog had shoes on, and his dog did not
want to have shoes on because he's doing that like
(12:52):
and it was a whippet situation. And they're shaking at
the best of times. So we don't know why are
they cold? Are they nervous? We don't know. But it
was like just it was lot. Now it's not important
to the story, but it was a lot in my periphery.
So I just want you to know added stress. Now,
this was my friend's icebreaker. We've never met. This was
his icebreaker. He said, did you know it takes less
(13:15):
muscles to smile than brown. Now, the men in the
audience are sitting there going, oh, you've experienced an isolated incident.
When the women are sitting there going oh, the Fox
safe and non binary folks are like, is that a
(13:35):
hard day for you? Isn't That's a clip from your
Netflix special, Douglas. The other thing that you have talked
about as you were diagnosed with autism a few years ago,
and you actually have said that the day you were
diagnosed was a very good day. How would you explain that? Uh,
(13:59):
you know, the process of going from hunch to diagnosis
was quite exhilarating because as I researched it, parts of
myself just fell into place and it's like, oh, oh,
I make sense suddenly. Um. In fact, coming to terms
with my atypical thinking was even more profound than coming
(14:21):
to terms with my sexuality, because ultimately your sexuality is
it's not a large part of your day to day,
whereas the way you think is pretty much always there.
So learning that I was never going to get to
the starting line of normal I say that in air quotes,
sort of gave me a bit of a breather, Like
(14:42):
I've been treading water my entire life, just trying to
work out what was important and ignoring what was actually
important to me, which put a lot of stress on
my central nervous system. But the flip side of that was,
after that relief came a lot of greed because it
was almost so simple a click, this understanding that oh
(15:06):
you think differently, and I can just deal with that.
But I just also feel like, in this conversation about
autism and neuro divergence. There's still a lot of shame
around it because it's not always an easy existence. So
are you choking to death? I'm not choking to death.
I'm trying not to cough through this incredible description. Yeah
(15:28):
you did? You did? Yeah? Look, I mean the body
knows the score. You did? You broken up? Sorry? Sorry? Um?
Where was I? Where was I? Was I talking about
anything interesting? Oh? Yes, grief? Because you know there's this
shame that is being projected onto the names and the
labels of a s D, and because you know at
(15:48):
the end is disorder like that is always the thing.
But you know, if you look at the more sort
of holistically, how can you prove that there is a
right way for our central nerves the system to operate
and what you know what sparks up and individual's central
nervous system. We don't have a grip on it. We're
still the sciences very active. So as individuals, we don't
(16:11):
get to solve that. All we get to do is
do the best we can. And we have enough information
now to know that not all kids are the same.
Alert Let's make sure everybody hears out and it's not
just the way we look like it's just on a
very fundamental level, information in and information out is different,
and for too long, particularly girls and any other not boys,
(16:36):
it's seen as character flaws, and that compounds the shame
and the stress of it, because it's like a boy
not talking, it's like, you know, he's a strong, silent
type having interesting thoughts, whereas a girl that becomes sulky,
then it's just a simple A seed is that and
that snowballs. But I think the beauty of a lot
(16:58):
of people on the spectrum, there's lot of trauma that
we have to exist through because the world is not
built for us and the world doesn't really accommodate our
kind of thinking, which is is not direct. But I'm
surrounded by stories that prioritize neurotypical experiences of the world.
(17:19):
So I have a great understanding and appreciation for neurotypical experience,
and it is typical for a reason. But I think
it's time for neurotypical people to not pity or for fear,
but sort of try and learn the language. It's about humanizing.
We're very we're devastatingly simple. People Just talk to us
(17:42):
about what we're interested in, and you're ours forever, like
where were your puppy dogs? Well, you mentioned the word trauma,
and you've gone through a lot in your life, and
now you've got a new book coming out, Ten Steps
to Nanat, a new one. It's my only one, it's
your own, you one, your first. Also, I should just
clean something up. Sorry to dropped, but um, I to
(18:06):
regret that every time I say it. But anyway, I
can't speak for everyone on spectrum, and it's a spectrum
for a reason, So just totally get that. And and
I do think it's important to emphasize that there is
diversity on the spectrum, just like there is in every
other aspect of human life and experience. But you know,
we now know so much more about what trauma does
(18:29):
to the body. You know literally how it affects you
know how people feel and think and almost physically your
body reacts. So how have you figured out a way
to process trauma? I asked, And really, you know you
don't expect an answer. Well, I do expect some kind
(18:50):
of an answer because I do think that finally people
are recognizing what trauma does to a person. The way
out of trauma is is a complicated path, and it's
not ever, the way into trauma is is very quick,
it could be a momentum. The way out of trauma
(19:14):
is rarely as simple, and I think, I think the
emphasis on the individual to get themselves out of trauma
is criminal because you can't achieve a sense of safety
without the community within which you live. You know, understanding
that you felt unsafe and have an invested interest in
(19:35):
your feeling safe. So just understanding that you can appreciate
why there are great numbers of communities who are existing
in cyclical trauma, because time and time again, their governments
let them know that they're not safe. I have emerged
on the other side of my trauma. I took a
(19:58):
punt with my show a Nette. It was a working
theory that if I shared it honestly and in a
controlled environment, and I felt like I could control the
stand up comedy arena, you know, three people at a
time in the same room, I was going to force
them to sit in my all my sort of distress,
(20:21):
in all its all its charm, that being you know anger, fear,
and you know vulnerability, if you want to use that
old chestnut, and I didn't think it would pay off.
I thought by doing that, I would reduce my audience,
but reduce it to a number that felt safer to me.
(20:42):
But what actually happened was surprising, as my audience got
bigger and bigger and something and what I was saying
that was cathartic people having conversations after my show, you know,
families would go in and then you know, I got
so many notes from people saying we had conversation the
we need to have. You know, that made me feel
part of a community, and that made me feel safer,
(21:04):
not the fact that I got this thing off my chest.
It was not a void. You know, we all knew
that these things happened to people all the time, but
we just don't talk about it because we get stuck
on the trauma loop and what happens after is so
much more important. We need to show that people can
recover from trauma. We need to show that it's a battle.
(21:27):
We need help, But it's not a drain worth circling.
Terrible things happen to people all the time, and it's
not resilience pawn because it's a community effort. I will
not stand as a person I've nailed this. I don't
know what it is about what I did that helped
me through this. They did so many different things, but
one of the main things is I felt connected. You know.
(21:49):
That really corresponds with everything that I know or that
I've heard about how people can work through their trauma
because they find a safe space and they find a community.
And you mentioned how families would have conversations after seeing
(22:11):
you in your stand up routine talking about, you know,
the disappointments and the attacks and the physical abuse and
everything that you experienced. What about your own family and
particularly your mom, because I know you've talked about some
of the you know, quite hurtful things that she would
(22:34):
say to you when you were younger and when you
did come out. How has that relationship evolved. Well, I
think it's evolved because I've matured and I can see.
My mother was in an impossible position. She was trying
to raise children in a intolerant place, and the active
(22:56):
conversation happening around her was one of intolerance. What do
you do like? You know? So she did the best
she could. Sometimes it came out sideways and was painful,
but ultimately she walked of an almost impossible line. But
she did it, and she's ashamed of it. She's not
(23:18):
proud of it, and I I sometimes go, now, you're right,
be fine, But it's not easy for her for me
to be out in the world going this is our story.
But there's so much of what she did do that
you don't you're not taught to look for in the
way that we tell stories. We're always looking for the
good guy, the bad guy. You know, in order for
(23:38):
me to come out and be full of pride, there
has to be a bad guy in my story. And
it's just life is so much messier than that. It
so is what I'm hearing you say, and what I
you know you're making me feel is how you came
to understand her and gave her the grace for her
(24:03):
to feel. You know, that you were opening a door
that she could then walk through despite how she felt
ashamed or whatever it happened in the past. Well, we
did that to each other for a while. We just
kept knocked down through the right doors, and it was
a long process. And it didn't help that I didn't
understand that I was autistic. And so you've got someone
(24:24):
who's near atypical trying to communicate with someone who's not.
So there's that added part of it. But she showed
me grace for you know, not first I had a
conversation with her, well, the gay marriage debate in Australia
was was flinging itself around in the mid turns, and
you know, she said something that's still to this day
(24:46):
staggers me. And I said it in and that I
say it in my memoi. Say it again, she said
to me, she said she regrets raising me as if
I was straight. And I just think that that's an
outlandishly progressive thing to say, um, because it's not just
like it's not a simple apology like you know, sorry
(25:07):
I said some things. It's like, fundamentally I made some
assumptions that damaged you, and it is true. It's not
her fault. That's the world we live in, um. And
so there's a lesson to be learned there. There's a
lot of lessons to be learned there. We'll be right back.
(25:36):
You know. Some of what made the nets so surprising
and really so great is the way that you dealt
with self deprecation. And I had never thought about it
the way that you were describing it. You actually talk
about how self deprecation from somebody who already exists in
(26:00):
the margins. Is not humility, it's humiliation. You put yourself
down in order to not only speak, but in order
to seek permission to speak, and you said you just
would not do that anymore. That's such a profound realization.
And you know, on a totally different level, you know,
(26:22):
women engage in self deprecation all the time to be
accepted in predominantly male settings. Put themselves down and humiliate themselves.
I speak from some experience, um in order for people
to think, oh, she's not threatening, she's okay. How did
(26:44):
you get to that realization? And how did it affect
the jokes she told and how you determined to present yourself.
The realization came after my autism diagnosis, and then I
began to look at the way that I was telling
my own story is it's it's really wrapped up in
my autism. And so when I was throughout my career,
(27:05):
when I go on stage and talk about myself, I
was very self deprecating. And it was for that reason.
It's like, you know, I cut a slightly strange figure
on stage, so I had to address that. You know,
I tried not to on occasions, and nobody would laugh
until I addressed the issue that was me. I couldn't
just go out and talk about pop tarts, you know,
So that was my on stage persona. But then I
(27:26):
was also doing art history lectures on the side, a
little bit of a side hustle festivals, I you know,
like the Scottish Art Gallery in Edinburgh and all the
National Gallery Victorian during the Melbourne Comedy Festival, and I
do comedy art lectures, and when I got on stage
and delivered those, I was the captain of the room
because I didn't have to explain myself. But also I
(27:49):
was talking about my passion and autism circles. We call
it's the special interest, but I feel like passion is
actually a better term, and so I wasn't thinking about myself.
I don't care how he's got something to tell you.
I've got something interesting to say and you'll listen. And
they did. But I couldn't marry the two. I couldn't
work out how to be that, and until I was diagnosed,
(28:09):
I didn't quite understand that. And so once I did that,
I thought the self deprecation for what it was. It
was an apology, but also trying to fit in to
other people's expectations of you. And I had enough experience
as a comedian to be able to undo that, you know,
because I felt more confident than I was looking on stage,
(28:30):
and so I began to pull that apart. And then
I saw it for what it was, which is like, oh,
I'm putting myself down. I'm doing the work. I thought
I was flipping the script on the homophobia, on the
you know, the fat phobia, on the woman phobia, all
the queer phobia, all these phobias. I thought I was
flipping the script. But in order to flip the script,
first of all, I had to remind people of the script.
(28:51):
And that was a damaging thing. And that's what I
did in and it and I said, the script is
no good. I'm changing the script. But I also think
it's an important tool. I'm not devoid of it now,
like I'm in a different part of my life now,
says my self deprecation skills are actually coming in handy.
I need to have a bit of humility about me.
I have power where I didn't have any. Now people
(29:12):
know me, the room changes when I walk into it.
I should be self deprecating. That's interesting. But from the
new perspective. Yeah, but I won't be self deprecating about
being queer. I won't be self deprecating about being autistic
white all day. I will be self deprecating all day
about wine. Not a problem. We are bad people. We
(29:34):
it's there is proof, there's a lot of evidence backing.
We wrote it. We kept the notes. Well, you said
that you know your life had changed, and one thing
is you got married last year. Congratulations, I think you
married your producer Jenny. Now how did you two get together?
And um, and how did you decide that you're going
(29:57):
to take this, you know, big step together. We started
working together. She was my on the ground producer for
my off Broadway run of Nanette, so it was a
pre Netflix. We worked together great. We liked each other.
But I'm not great at picking up you know. So
you know. Just but when I was about to do
a world tour of my new show Douglas, I was
(30:20):
chatting and she told me she was looking for a
new thing to do. New. She's incredibly intelligent, incredibly good
at what she does, but was looking for something new.
And so I ran my manager and said, okay, Because
the thing about Jenner is that she knew I needed
things before I did. And as someone on the spectrum,
that is just so nice because sometimes I'll be distressed
(30:40):
and not know why. And I had someone on my
team who's just like I think, I think you might
be thirsty. It's as simple as that. So we began
to work together. We're on it. We did a world
tour and at some stage that the penny drop. Then
the pandemic happened. So we had a world tour and
a pandemic in lockdown on in Australia, and if I
(31:01):
don't know if you read the news, but it was
it was brutal. Yeah, we we took it seriously. So
we figured from that, you know, that's sickness and health
in rather extremes that we had this. But Jenny is
one of the only people I've ever met who instantly
understood my way of communicating. And you know, there wasn't
(31:25):
a torment of adjustment. It was just which is really lovely. Well,
I'm going to end by asking you for advice because
hill Billy here for you. If I need you, I
need your girl. So you've talked about dealing with online trolls, who,
as we both know, just loved to come after people
(31:49):
like us who don't follow the rules or the prescribed
roles that are set out for us. So, what's your
strategy for dealing with online bigotry and hatred? And you've
got any good comebacks you want to share for the
next time I need one, Hillary, my advice to you
is don't engage, because what's coming at you is not
(32:11):
sanity boy, that's for sure. The thing about social media,
we have allowed a very narrow demographic of people who
are not famous for their interpersonal skills like I speak
as they might people, and we have allowed that small
demographic of people to build the infrastructure through which we
(32:31):
all communicate, and it's driving us insane as a collective.
And so just bear that in mind next time you
see dramas. Just like Zuckerberg, Hannah Goutsby, I cannot tell
you how much I have loved talking with you in person.
(32:53):
So instead of just admiring you from AFAR and following
your personal evolution, I agree got to talk to you
and I just look forward to whatever comes next for you.
Thank you very much. Hally Billy has been an absolutely
create I'm so sorry I keep calling you that, but
I'm not sorry. Thank you so much. Thank you. I
(33:19):
guess Hannah did do her physical therapy exercises because she's
back on her feet and hitting the road. She'll be
performing her new show called Body of Work across the
United States this spring and summer. For details on her tour,
go to Hannah Gatsby dot com dot AU. And before
(33:42):
I go a next week's episode of You and Me Both,
I'll be answering your questions with a special guest. If
you've got a last minute question for me, you can
write to You and Me Both pod at gmail dot com,
or you can leave a voice message at two oh
to seven eight oh seven five one five, and who knows,
(34:04):
I might just answer your question on the show You
and Me Both is brought to you by I Heart Radio.
We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo,
with help from Huma Aberdeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Brianna Johnson,
(34:27):
Nick Merrill, Laura Olan, Lona Velmorrow, and Benita Zaman. Our
engineer is Zach McNeice and original music is by Forest Gray.
If you like You and Me Both, please tell someone
else about it, And if you're not already a subscriber,
what are you waiting for? You can subscribe to you
(34:50):
and me both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening, and
we'll be back neck next week when I'll be answering
your questions. Don't miss it.
You and Me Both is a production of I Heart
Radio Hannah. Hannah Gadsby, Hello Hillary, Is that what I
called you? Or is it Madame Secretary? Or Hillary? Is
my name? Hilly Billy, Hilly Billy. I will not call
you that, of course, now that you have it in
your head, you'll never forget it. It's true. And no William,
(00:21):
Oh my god. Well yeah, I've been calling a lot worse,
as have you. So I'm Hillary Clinton and this is
you and Me Both on today's episode. I'm talking to
one of my favorite comedians. Though in my mind, she's
much more than a comedian. She's also a provocative thinker
(00:41):
who challenges her audiences to do some serious thinking too.
Like many people, I first discovered Hannah Gadsby in eighteen
when I saw her breakout Netflix comedy special Nannette. That
show was a huge success, earning Hannah an Emmy and
a Peabody Award, which game as a surprise to her because,
(01:04):
as she puts it, Nanette is arguably the most deliberately miserable,
unfunny hour of comedy ever made. If you haven't seen
it yet, the special begins with Hannah's trademark dry humor,
with self deprecating jokes about her appearance and about the
sexism and gender based violence she experienced in her life,
(01:27):
particularly growing up in Tasmania, the very conservative part of
Australia where she lived then. And this is a spoiler,
Hannah tells us she's quitting comedy because she no longer
wants to be party to a form of entertainment where
she introduces audiences to her trauma and then re traumatizes
(01:48):
herself by inviting us to laugh about it. As an example,
she shares the story of coming out as gay to
her mother because the response to me coming out when
first told her that I was a little bit lesbian
byby steps, her response. Her response was this, She's just gone, Oh, Hannah,
(02:13):
why did you have to tell me that that's not
something I to know? I mean, what if I told
you I was a murderer. It is pretty funny, but
as she points out, it's also very painful. Luckily for us,
(02:38):
Hannah did not quit comedy. Instead, she found a way
of doing it that does not require her to inflict
pain on herself or anyone else who's been victimized in
the ways that she has in Hannah released another Netflix
special called Douglas, which touches on a range of topics
(03:00):
from the patriarchy to anti vax ER's, her haters, her
own diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder or a s D,
which she received in and she's got a memoir coming
out right now called Ten Steps. Tune in net, Welcome
Hannah to the show. I am so happy to be
(03:22):
talking to you, but first I got to ask you.
I heard you broke your leg, real doozy. I fell
over walking in Iceland. Yeah, well, there's a lot of
ice in Iceland. They're not lying. It's on the label
very nice, nice healthcare system there. I had emergency surgery
and they looked after me. Great, have you done the
(03:44):
physical therapy that you've got to do in order to
get your strength back? Well, I've got to wait for
it to heal. So yeah, I've just had surgery. Can
you get back off a bit like I've caught plates
and screws in? Well? I can? I can move the foot? Yeah?
I broke my elbow about to I don't remember. Two
thousand and nine a long time ago. And you didn't
do the exercise it did? Oh? No, I did? I
(04:05):
did because I was I was scared out of my
mind that if I didn't, but I have like plates
and you know all that stuff, and I know, I mean,
it takes a while, but you've got to do the
exercises when they clear you to do it. So that's
that's my that's my physical therapy advice for the day.
And this is not what I expected, but I will
take it well. I was so excited to talk with
you because I have been a fan. I really appreciate
(04:31):
how you literally have approached not just your comedy, but
I guess your life in a way that kind of
shares it with the rest of us. And in it
seemed to me from afar that your life was turned
upside down because your stand up special, and then that
was released on Netflix, which is where I saw it.
(04:52):
People around the world like me met you for the
first time. And since then, you've put out another Netflix
special called Douglas. You're soon get hit the road once
your leg gets prepared and ready to do your new
show called Body of Work. You've also gotten married, another
big life event, and you've got a memoir coming out.
(05:12):
Holy moly, I mean, you have been one busy person.
How has your life changed and how if you can
describe how you feel about all this, because I mean,
was not that long ago, and so much has happened since. Well, yeah,
a lot happened in my life, and then a lot
happened globally that has nothing to do with me. So
(05:33):
it's how to get a measure on what has become
my life when the whole world has been turned upside down.
That's true. But for that brief window where I was
the center of the universe, it was a bit shocking.
I went like, because before this Netflix special dropped, I
would have classed myself as a successful comedian. I was
earning money. I was a living wage, which is not
(05:55):
something I've had before comedy b C as we like
to say. And I was regularly touring Australia in the UK,
so you know, Americans would not have heard of me,
but that does not preclude my existence. So the Netflix
special just put me up into this model of success
that was not something I was prepared for, mostly because
(06:19):
you just look out there and you just don't see
someone like me. And I say fair enough as well,
like I'm not everyone's cup of tea, you know, I know,
I'm a typical and not riddled with enthusiasm, and I
feel like that's what really gets you some success. So
I ran the analytics, and I didn't think I'd be
successful on on a global stage, and so I just
(06:40):
sat back and sat in my lane and did my work,
and I felt very disorientating to be you know, what
was the trickiest thing is famous people knowing who I was. Like,
it's one thing for a lot of you know, people
who I would say, I like me knowing who I was,
I'm like, well that's weird. But for famous people to
(07:00):
know who I am, I'm not the best person for
that because I don't always know who people are. So
I am just a faux pa waiting to happen. I'm
Hillary Clinton, and I'm really and we're so thrilled to
heavy on the spot. But you know, you grew up
in a place that I haven't yet visited, but I
you know, really been fascinated by for a very long
(07:22):
time called Tasmania. Uh what do you know about Tesmania?
Here's what given I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you what
I know and then and you can tell me how
wrong I am. It's a big island part of Australia,
but off the coast of Australia there are things called
the Tasmanian Devils. It's somewhat sparsely populated. It is both
(07:43):
agricultural and I guess you know, fishing and things like that.
It's beautiful, but it's also stark, and it's somewhat isolating
and quite conservative. That's what I know about it. You
did read my book, Yeah, it's it's um it's so
of like if you threw New Zealand into a gothic nightmare. Um.
(08:05):
I love Tasmania. I am from there. I grew up there.
It's all I knew for a very long time. But
the Tasmania that exists now is different to the one
that I grew up in. And I think that's a
really important point to make because it, like me, has
evolved and it's quite easy for a single person to
mature and grow up, but it's actually quite difficult for
(08:27):
a culture to mature and grow up in a short
space of time. And what did that was the gay
law reform that took place in the eighties and nineties.
It was fierce and it reached the global stage. I think,
you know, we might have made the New York Times once.
Um it was a really intense sort of conflation of
(08:49):
my own identity and my home's identity, because at that
time it was it was fiercely homophobic and proudly so,
and it was like, this is who we are, and
I was learning that that's who I was. And so
I was a debatable citizen in the most sort of
really vulnerable time of my life. And there's all sorts
of terrible things to talk about in that story, but
(09:13):
you could cut also to the positive headline that Tasmania
has some of the strongest human rights protections in Australian.
You know, I can't claim the world. It's a big place,
but I think we learned as a as a community
that we didn't like being divided like that, we didn't
like being painted as an accepting and you know this
(09:36):
sturely pockets still there, but as a as a whole,
I feel safe going back home where I never did before. Um.
So it's a long and dark history, but there is
that at the end of it. Well, I really like
the way you talk about it evolving because I know
that you know in the net when you talk about
your childhood and and how you first saw what you
(09:58):
call your people when you watch the Sydney Gay and
Lesbian Mardi Gras, and you saw people having a great
time and partying. And you know, you have a great
line where you say, well where do the quiet gays?
God always, I've never been to mad I just looks
a bit much. I'm very proud, but well, I just
(10:20):
have this image of you as as a young girl,
young woman in Tasmania and like so many other lgbt
Q kids, all of a sudden, not feeling alone, even
though it was just through a TV screen. It's one
of those It's a student of history. This this golds
me the most is each generation we have to prove
that we exist. And I am a student of history.
(10:43):
I know we've always existed. You just have to not
have the biases that blind you to that existence. And
right now it's happening to trans kids and gender quick kids,
and honestly that's where I am on the spectrum. I
have gender queer, but we didn't have the language when
I was growing up. So the bonus of not having languages,
(11:04):
you don't have the vitriol on the other side of
the language, and that's what we're going through now. I
feel a real sense of urgency about what I can
see happening now. I feel very also helpless because what's
happening to trans kids, particularly in the US, but also
in Australia, in the UK IS and elsewhere. My sure,
(11:26):
but it's now a hot topic. It's being it's a
plaything for people who want to motivate hatred in order
to generate votes and clicks. It's really toxic, and it's
become you know, they're dividing families that you know, even
running laws that parents and teachers who help trans kids
(11:48):
performing some kind of child abuse. And it's just like,
we can't solve the riddle of gender, but we can
be decent to our children. You know, doing untold damage
to trans kids and also kids who aren't you know,
kids who are burgeoning transphobs. We are doing damage to
them because you know, we're teaching kids that it's okay
(12:10):
to exclude. And really, if we're going to get through
climate change, we need everyone. We're taking a quick break.
Stay with us now. I want to tell you a
(12:30):
story about a terrible conversation I had at the dog park.
One this bloke just walks up to me. I mean,
he had a dog. He wasn't just being creepy. Had context,
and I don't want to tell you this, it's not
pertinent to the story, but I want you to know
his dog had shoes on, and his dog did not
want to have shoes on because he's doing that like
(12:52):
and it was a whippet situation. And they're shaking at
the best of times. So we don't know why are
they cold? Are they nervous? We don't know. But it
was like just it was lot. Now it's not important
to the story, but it was a lot in my periphery.
So I just want you to know added stress. Now,
this was my friend's icebreaker. We've never met. This was
his icebreaker. He said, did you know it takes less
(13:15):
muscles to smile than brown. Now, the men in the
audience are sitting there going, oh, you've experienced an isolated incident.
When the women are sitting there going oh, the Fox
safe and non binary folks are like, is that a
(13:35):
hard day for you? Isn't That's a clip from your
Netflix special, Douglas. The other thing that you have talked
about as you were diagnosed with autism a few years ago,
and you actually have said that the day you were
diagnosed was a very good day. How would you explain that? Uh,
(13:59):
you know, the process of going from hunch to diagnosis
was quite exhilarating because as I researched it, parts of
myself just fell into place and it's like, oh, oh,
I make sense suddenly. Um. In fact, coming to terms
with my atypical thinking was even more profound than coming
(14:21):
to terms with my sexuality, because ultimately your sexuality is
it's not a large part of your day to day,
whereas the way you think is pretty much always there.
So learning that I was never going to get to
the starting line of normal I say that in air quotes,
sort of gave me a bit of a breather, Like
(14:42):
I've been treading water my entire life, just trying to
work out what was important and ignoring what was actually
important to me, which put a lot of stress on
my central nervous system. But the flip side of that was,
after that relief came a lot of greed because it
was almost so simple a click, this understanding that oh
(15:06):
you think differently, and I can just deal with that.
But I just also feel like, in this conversation about
autism and neuro divergence. There's still a lot of shame
around it because it's not always an easy existence. So
are you choking to death? I'm not choking to death.
I'm trying not to cough through this incredible description. Yeah
(15:28):
you did? You did? Yeah? Look, I mean the body
knows the score. You did? You broken up? Sorry? Sorry? Um?
Where was I? Where was I? Was I talking about
anything interesting? Oh? Yes, grief? Because you know there's this
shame that is being projected onto the names and the
labels of a s D, and because you know at
(15:48):
the end is disorder like that is always the thing.
But you know, if you look at the more sort
of holistically, how can you prove that there is a
right way for our central nerves the system to operate
and what you know what sparks up and individual's central
nervous system. We don't have a grip on it. We're
still the sciences very active. So as individuals, we don't
(16:11):
get to solve that. All we get to do is
do the best we can. And we have enough information
now to know that not all kids are the same.
Alert Let's make sure everybody hears out and it's not
just the way we look like it's just on a
very fundamental level, information in and information out is different,
and for too long, particularly girls and any other not boys,
(16:36):
it's seen as character flaws, and that compounds the shame
and the stress of it, because it's like a boy
not talking, it's like, you know, he's a strong, silent
type having interesting thoughts, whereas a girl that becomes sulky,
then it's just a simple A seed is that and
that snowballs. But I think the beauty of a lot
(16:58):
of people on the spectrum, there's lot of trauma that
we have to exist through because the world is not
built for us and the world doesn't really accommodate our
kind of thinking, which is is not direct. But I'm
surrounded by stories that prioritize neurotypical experiences of the world.
(17:19):
So I have a great understanding and appreciation for neurotypical experience,
and it is typical for a reason. But I think
it's time for neurotypical people to not pity or for fear,
but sort of try and learn the language. It's about humanizing.
We're very we're devastatingly simple. People Just talk to us
(17:42):
about what we're interested in, and you're ours forever, like
where were your puppy dogs? Well, you mentioned the word trauma,
and you've gone through a lot in your life, and
now you've got a new book coming out, Ten Steps
to Nanat, a new one. It's my only one, it's
your own, you one, your first. Also, I should just
clean something up. Sorry to dropped, but um, I to
(18:06):
regret that every time I say it. But anyway, I
can't speak for everyone on spectrum, and it's a spectrum
for a reason, So just totally get that. And and
I do think it's important to emphasize that there is
diversity on the spectrum, just like there is in every
other aspect of human life and experience. But you know,
we now know so much more about what trauma does
(18:29):
to the body. You know literally how it affects you
know how people feel and think and almost physically your
body reacts. So how have you figured out a way
to process trauma? I asked, And really, you know you
don't expect an answer. Well, I do expect some kind
(18:50):
of an answer because I do think that finally people
are recognizing what trauma does to a person. The way
out of trauma is is a complicated path, and it's
not ever, the way into trauma is is very quick,
it could be a momentum. The way out of trauma
(19:14):
is rarely as simple, and I think, I think the
emphasis on the individual to get themselves out of trauma
is criminal because you can't achieve a sense of safety
without the community within which you live. You know, understanding
that you felt unsafe and have an invested interest in
(19:35):
your feeling safe. So just understanding that you can appreciate
why there are great numbers of communities who are existing
in cyclical trauma, because time and time again, their governments
let them know that they're not safe. I have emerged
on the other side of my trauma. I took a
(19:58):
punt with my show a Nette. It was a working
theory that if I shared it honestly and in a
controlled environment, and I felt like I could control the
stand up comedy arena, you know, three people at a
time in the same room, I was going to force
them to sit in my all my sort of distress,
(20:21):
in all its all its charm, that being you know anger, fear,
and you know vulnerability, if you want to use that
old chestnut, and I didn't think it would pay off.
I thought by doing that, I would reduce my audience,
but reduce it to a number that felt safer to me.
(20:42):
But what actually happened was surprising, as my audience got
bigger and bigger and something and what I was saying
that was cathartic people having conversations after my show, you know,
families would go in and then you know, I got
so many notes from people saying we had conversation the
we need to have. You know, that made me feel
part of a community, and that made me feel safer,
(21:04):
not the fact that I got this thing off my chest.
It was not a void. You know, we all knew
that these things happened to people all the time, but
we just don't talk about it because we get stuck
on the trauma loop and what happens after is so
much more important. We need to show that people can
recover from trauma. We need to show that it's a battle.
(21:27):
We need help, But it's not a drain worth circling.
Terrible things happen to people all the time, and it's
not resilience pawn because it's a community effort. I will
not stand as a person I've nailed this. I don't
know what it is about what I did that helped
me through this. They did so many different things, but
one of the main things is I felt connected. You know.
(21:49):
That really corresponds with everything that I know or that
I've heard about how people can work through their trauma
because they find a safe space and they find a community.
And you mentioned how families would have conversations after seeing
(22:11):
you in your stand up routine talking about, you know,
the disappointments and the attacks and the physical abuse and
everything that you experienced. What about your own family and
particularly your mom, because I know you've talked about some
of the you know, quite hurtful things that she would
(22:34):
say to you when you were younger and when you
did come out. How has that relationship evolved. Well, I
think it's evolved because I've matured and I can see.
My mother was in an impossible position. She was trying
to raise children in a intolerant place, and the active
(22:56):
conversation happening around her was one of intolerance. What do
you do like? You know? So she did the best
she could. Sometimes it came out sideways and was painful,
but ultimately she walked of an almost impossible line. But
she did it, and she's ashamed of it. She's not
(23:18):
proud of it, and I I sometimes go, now, you're right,
be fine, But it's not easy for her for me
to be out in the world going this is our story.
But there's so much of what she did do that
you don't you're not taught to look for in the
way that we tell stories. We're always looking for the
good guy, the bad guy. You know, in order for
(23:38):
me to come out and be full of pride, there
has to be a bad guy in my story. And
it's just life is so much messier than that. It
so is what I'm hearing you say, and what I
you know you're making me feel is how you came
to understand her and gave her the grace for her
(24:03):
to feel. You know, that you were opening a door
that she could then walk through despite how she felt
ashamed or whatever it happened in the past. Well, we
did that to each other for a while. We just
kept knocked down through the right doors, and it was
a long process. And it didn't help that I didn't
understand that I was autistic. And so you've got someone
(24:24):
who's near atypical trying to communicate with someone who's not.
So there's that added part of it. But she showed
me grace for you know, not first I had a
conversation with her, well, the gay marriage debate in Australia
was was flinging itself around in the mid turns, and
you know, she said something that's still to this day
(24:46):
staggers me. And I said it in and that I
say it in my memoi. Say it again, she said
to me, she said she regrets raising me as if
I was straight. And I just think that that's an
outlandishly progressive thing to say, um, because it's not just
like it's not a simple apology like you know, sorry
(25:07):
I said some things. It's like, fundamentally I made some
assumptions that damaged you, and it is true. It's not
her fault. That's the world we live in, um. And
so there's a lesson to be learned there. There's a
lot of lessons to be learned there. We'll be right back.
(25:36):
You know. Some of what made the nets so surprising
and really so great is the way that you dealt
with self deprecation. And I had never thought about it
the way that you were describing it. You actually talk
about how self deprecation from somebody who already exists in
(26:00):
the margins. Is not humility, it's humiliation. You put yourself
down in order to not only speak, but in order
to seek permission to speak, and you said you just
would not do that anymore. That's such a profound realization.
And you know, on a totally different level, you know,
(26:22):
women engage in self deprecation all the time to be
accepted in predominantly male settings. Put themselves down and humiliate themselves.
I speak from some experience, um in order for people
to think, oh, she's not threatening, she's okay. How did
(26:44):
you get to that realization? And how did it affect
the jokes she told and how you determined to present yourself.
The realization came after my autism diagnosis, and then I
began to look at the way that I was telling
my own story is it's it's really wrapped up in
my autism. And so when I was throughout my career,
(27:05):
when I go on stage and talk about myself, I
was very self deprecating. And it was for that reason.
It's like, you know, I cut a slightly strange figure
on stage, so I had to address that. You know,
I tried not to on occasions, and nobody would laugh
until I addressed the issue that was me. I couldn't
just go out and talk about pop tarts, you know,
So that was my on stage persona. But then I
(27:26):
was also doing art history lectures on the side, a
little bit of a side hustle festivals, I you know,
like the Scottish Art Gallery in Edinburgh and all the
National Gallery Victorian during the Melbourne Comedy Festival, and I
do comedy art lectures, and when I got on stage
and delivered those, I was the captain of the room
because I didn't have to explain myself. But also I
(27:49):
was talking about my passion and autism circles. We call
it's the special interest, but I feel like passion is
actually a better term, and so I wasn't thinking about myself.
I don't care how he's got something to tell you.
I've got something interesting to say and you'll listen. And
they did. But I couldn't marry the two. I couldn't
work out how to be that, and until I was diagnosed,
(28:09):
I didn't quite understand that. And so once I did that,
I thought the self deprecation for what it was. It
was an apology, but also trying to fit in to
other people's expectations of you. And I had enough experience
as a comedian to be able to undo that, you know,
because I felt more confident than I was looking on stage,
(28:30):
and so I began to pull that apart. And then
I saw it for what it was, which is like, oh,
I'm putting myself down. I'm doing the work. I thought
I was flipping the script on the homophobia, on the
you know, the fat phobia, on the woman phobia, all
the queer phobia, all these phobias. I thought I was
flipping the script. But in order to flip the script,
first of all, I had to remind people of the script.
(28:51):
And that was a damaging thing. And that's what I
did in and it and I said, the script is
no good. I'm changing the script. But I also think
it's an important tool. I'm not devoid of it now,
like I'm in a different part of my life now,
says my self deprecation skills are actually coming in handy.
I need to have a bit of humility about me.
I have power where I didn't have any. Now people
(29:12):
know me, the room changes when I walk into it.
I should be self deprecating. That's interesting. But from the
new perspective. Yeah, but I won't be self deprecating about
being queer. I won't be self deprecating about being autistic
white all day. I will be self deprecating all day
about wine. Not a problem. We are bad people. We
(29:34):
it's there is proof, there's a lot of evidence backing.
We wrote it. We kept the notes. Well, you said
that you know your life had changed, and one thing
is you got married last year. Congratulations, I think you
married your producer Jenny. Now how did you two get together?
And um, and how did you decide that you're going
(29:57):
to take this, you know, big step together. We started
working together. She was my on the ground producer for
my off Broadway run of Nanette, so it was a
pre Netflix. We worked together great. We liked each other.
But I'm not great at picking up you know. So
you know. Just but when I was about to do
a world tour of my new show Douglas, I was
(30:20):
chatting and she told me she was looking for a
new thing to do. New. She's incredibly intelligent, incredibly good
at what she does, but was looking for something new.
And so I ran my manager and said, okay, Because
the thing about Jenner is that she knew I needed
things before I did. And as someone on the spectrum,
that is just so nice because sometimes I'll be distressed
(30:40):
and not know why. And I had someone on my
team who's just like I think, I think you might
be thirsty. It's as simple as that. So we began
to work together. We're on it. We did a world
tour and at some stage that the penny drop. Then
the pandemic happened. So we had a world tour and
a pandemic in lockdown on in Australia, and if I
(31:01):
don't know if you read the news, but it was
it was brutal. Yeah, we we took it seriously. So
we figured from that, you know, that's sickness and health
in rather extremes that we had this. But Jenny is
one of the only people I've ever met who instantly
understood my way of communicating. And you know, there wasn't
(31:25):
a torment of adjustment. It was just which is really lovely. Well,
I'm going to end by asking you for advice because
hill Billy here for you. If I need you, I
need your girl. So you've talked about dealing with online trolls, who,
as we both know, just loved to come after people
(31:49):
like us who don't follow the rules or the prescribed
roles that are set out for us. So, what's your
strategy for dealing with online bigotry and hatred? And you've
got any good comebacks you want to share for the
next time I need one, Hillary, my advice to you
is don't engage, because what's coming at you is not
(32:11):
sanity boy, that's for sure. The thing about social media,
we have allowed a very narrow demographic of people who
are not famous for their interpersonal skills like I speak
as they might people, and we have allowed that small
demographic of people to build the infrastructure through which we
(32:31):
all communicate, and it's driving us insane as a collective.
And so just bear that in mind next time you
see dramas. Just like Zuckerberg, Hannah Goutsby, I cannot tell
you how much I have loved talking with you in person.
(32:53):
So instead of just admiring you from AFAR and following
your personal evolution, I agree got to talk to you
and I just look forward to whatever comes next for you.
Thank you very much. Hally Billy has been an absolutely
create I'm so sorry I keep calling you that, but
I'm not sorry. Thank you so much. Thank you. I
(33:19):
guess Hannah did do her physical therapy exercises because she's
back on her feet and hitting the road. She'll be
performing her new show called Body of Work across the
United States this spring and summer. For details on her tour,
go to Hannah Gatsby dot com dot AU. And before
(33:42):
I go a next week's episode of You and Me Both,
I'll be answering your questions with a special guest. If
you've got a last minute question for me, you can
write to You and Me Both pod at gmail dot com,
or you can leave a voice message at two oh
to seven eight oh seven five one five, and who knows,
(34:04):
I might just answer your question on the show You
and Me Both is brought to you by I Heart Radio.
We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo,
with help from Huma Aberdeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Brianna Johnson,
(34:27):
Nick Merrill, Laura Olan, Lona Velmorrow, and Benita Zaman. Our
engineer is Zach McNeice and original music is by Forest Gray.
If you like You and Me Both, please tell someone
else about it, And if you're not already a subscriber,
what are you waiting for? You can subscribe to you
(34:50):
and me both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening, and
we'll be back neck next week when I'll be answering
your questions. Don't miss it.
Host
Hillary Clinton
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