January 19, 2022 • 12 mins
Couch Talks is the special bonus episode of YNT where Kat answers questions that listeners send to kathryn@youneedtherapypodcast. This week, Kat talks about narcissism and gives some feedback to a listener struggling with a family member that they believe has narcissistic traits.
Also, for those wanting tips on how to find a therapist click HERE.
Follow Kat on Instagram: @Kat.Defatta
Follow the podcast Instagram: @YouNeedTherapyPodcast
Have a question, concern, guest idea, something else? Reach Kat at: Kathryn@youneedtherapyodcast.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi guys, and welcome back to another new episode of
Couch Talks on You Need Therapy. My name is Kat
and I am the host. Here. Couch Talks is the
special bonus episode of You Need Therapy where I answer
questions that you, the listeners, send into me, and you
can send those into Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast
(00:31):
dot com and maybe one day I will get to
your question. So usually I answer questions that, like I said,
you send into that email. However, last week I put
an instant pull out when I was well, I guess
this is a couple of weeks ago, when I was
in isolation from having COVID, I had some time on
my hands, so I did an Instagram question box and
(00:53):
you guys sent in tons of questions and really good questions,
some that were even too complicated for me to answer
on Instagram. So I kept a lot of them and
I might pull some of them into couch Talks, which
is what I'm doing today. So before we get into this,
like usual, just want to remind you guys that I
am a therapist, and at the same time, this is
(01:14):
not therapy. This is just a therapist talking to you
and you'll find if you go to therapy, or maybe
you just are starting to listen to a lot of
mental health stuff. Therapists don't actually give advice. They help
you kind of figure out what you need. And sometimes
I might answer questions and actually give you an answer.
A lot of times I'm asking you questions back and
helping you figure out what you need based on this
(01:36):
like pseudo conversation we're having over a podcast. So I
just wanted to throw that out there as always that
this is not a replacement for actual mental health services,
but let's get into it. Also another side note, a
lot of people in this question box, and I still
get these emails all the time, and I still get
these d m s all the time. A lot of
(01:57):
people ask me how to find a therapist over and
over again. And I love that question because I love
that you want to go to therapy. And I actually
have a slide on the you Need Therapy podcast page
at you Need Therapy Podcast that is also on my Highlights,
so you can just go to that page and it's
at the top that answers this question for everybody. This
(02:17):
question is very valid, and I have new people on
here all the time, so I totally get that you've
missed when I've actually answered that on couch Shocks, because
I've actually done that one or two times as well.
So I want to continue to be able to be
a resource for you to ask that question. But because
I've already answered it, I want to link that Instagram
(02:38):
post in the show notes, you guys can go to
that and and check that out and you already have
an answer there. And also, as much as I would
love to be able to do this, I cannot individually
help everyone find a therapist in your area, especially if
you don't live in the Nashville area. I really don't know.
(03:00):
I sometimes have connections and have resources that I can
reach out to when I'm trying to find resources for
clients and stuff like that, And at the same time,
like I really am not connected to like a large
pool of therapists all over the country. So if you
are looking for a referral for me for somebody in
your area, I most likely don't have that. So just
(03:21):
go to that post and read those tips and hopefully
those can help you find that this question in particular
is and was asking about narcissism. I also have a
whole episode on this that I highly recommend you listening
to that. I will also link. But this question was
speaking to what to do when you have a family
member who continues to reach out and write letters to
(03:43):
you and ask you to be in a relationship with
them or have a relationship with them, over and over,
but they never actually make any changes and you continuously
get hurt. So I'm just going to assume that a
lot of you are like, oh my gosh, that feels
like me. Even if you don't have somebody writing letters
to you, might have some continuously texting you or just
reaching out to you or doing something. And this is
(04:06):
a really tough spot to be in. So I'm going
to be pretty general in answering this question. Now. In
the episode that I already did that goes into depth
about narcissism and empt, I talk about the difference of
having traits of narcissism, which we basically all have and
somewhat need to survive in the world, and being narcissistic
(04:27):
and actually having narcissistic personality disorder. We throw this label
out way too much these days on basically like anybody
who's an asshole. So I'm going to answer this question
with the assumption that this person really does have a
diagnosable case of MPD, meaning that they meet the requirements
in the d S M five and have truly a
(04:48):
lack of empathy towards other people. Very simply to answer
this question in the most general way, you do what
you need to do to feel safe, no questions asked. Like,
you do what you need to do to feel safe,
and if it feels extreme, that's okay, because when you're
dealing with somebody like this, it is abnormal and it
is extreme, and so a lot of times it takes
(05:10):
extreme behaviors to protect yourself. And I think a lot
of people are like, I don't want to be dramatic,
or I don't want to be this, or I don't
want to be that, but like, this is a dramatic situation.
Having somebody like this in your life is something that
will require actions and behaviors and boundaries that you don't
need with healthy, regulated humans. This is where also actions
(05:32):
become immensely more important than promises and words. A lot
of us are words people. I think that words of
affirmation is the most common love language that there is
out there. However, was someone who has narcissistic personality disorder.
Words are one of their most magical tools. And let
me remind you, guys, and maybe you haven't heard this yet,
(05:53):
but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing
over and over and over and over again expect geting
a different result. And if we do this dance with somebody,
if we do this thing where it's like, you hurt me, Okay,
I take you back, you hurt me. I promise that
I will do better. I'm so sorry, I'm this bad
person and I love you so much. Okay, I'll take
you back. You hurt me. I'm so sorry. If we
(06:14):
do this dance over and over and over again thinking
that at some point it's going to be different, we
are creating an insane cycle. Also, there's no rules somewhere
that says to be a good person you have to
give people unlimited chances to change. If someone hurts us,
we get to decide if they are allowed back in
our lives. On strike one. You don't have to wait
(06:35):
until strike three or four or five or six or
seven or eight or nine. You can have one thing
happened and you'd be like, I'm I'm not that's not
for me. I think that everybody just wants to be
a good person, and we want to give people the
benefit of the doubt. And I say everybody if that's
just me, but I know that I always want to
give people the benefit of the doubt because there's just
(06:56):
part of me that that wants to believe that everybody
in insittically is good and everybody can be born good
and people can be bad for us. So the other
thing is to essentially cut people out of our lives.
They don't have to have a personality disorder. They can
just be somebody that doesn't fit well with what we
(07:16):
need and what we can handle on what feels right
to us. But that's kind of a whole different conversation.
So this really comes down to boundaries. It sounds like
this person already made the decision that they don't want
this person in their lives, but the letters keep coming in.
So again, you do whatever you need to do to
feel safe. You block email, you return to sender the letters,
(07:37):
or you throw them out. Do not read these letters.
This is where like I'm like bordering on I don't
give people advice. If I was going to give you advice,
do not read these letters, because, like I said, words
of affirmation might be you're like love language, and they
know what to say, how to say it, when to
say it, and this can become a trap for you
(07:59):
if you do the so over and over, these letters
can become like junk mail that you're just like, oh,
this thing again, and you get rid of it. This
thing again, and you get rid of it. People that
have narcissistic personality disorder are usually very, very very intelligent.
They are cunning, they are manipulative. They know what to do,
when to do it, how to do it. They know
how to pull emotions without getting their emotions involved, but
(08:21):
they know how to make you think their emotions are involved.
And they know you probably well enough to know what
to say, how to say it, and how to make
you think that just maybe you should give in. And
they also have a beautiful way of making it look
like things are your fault, like all of a sudden,
you feel all this guilt because you're the one making
it impossible for you to have a loving relationship with
(08:41):
this person, and you have to remember, Nope, this is
not me, and yeah, you may be the one holding
the line now, but this is a consequence to their actions,
not yours, and may I add, and this goes to
everyone about everything. You do not need people to agree
with your choices for them to be right choices you
don't you need to agree with them. That's it. So
(09:03):
you need to do what you need to do to
feel safe. You have to worry about your needs first
and every else's needs second. And I know this is hard,
but if a relationship is costing your mental health, what's
the point of the relationship. If it's costing your mental health,
what is the point Because then you have this relationship
but you have horrible mental health. Think about it. So
(09:24):
to answer this question again very simply, you do what
you need to do to feel safe. The thing about
people with narcissism or narcissistic personality disorder, I should say,
is one of the things that they do so well
is play this role of this caring person. But a
mandatory trait of this disorder, of this personality disorder, is
(09:47):
a lack of empathy. So they may look like they
have this desire and true like care and love and
there's this hole in their heart without you, But this
is you usually a role they're playing in order to
get you back in their good graces because they need
people to look at them as these good people. That's
(10:09):
how they get their self worth and their value. But
it's a role, Like I'm telling you these people a
lot of times, which is so wild to think about
a lot of people with narcissistic personalities or actually have
jobs and like things like nonprofits or do these do
good organizations. But this is just a way for them
to create this image of this good person. So they
(10:31):
might be able to do like an interview where they're
like crying and having all this like what looks like
real emotion, but they're like actors and that's actually not real.
And it's a way for them to create this image
in your head of this good person. So then when
you are like, oh, I'm doing this thing and taking
care of myself, you look back to that and you're like,
(10:52):
but they're so good, how could they? Of course they are, like,
of course, blah blah. I can't even say my words
straight right now because I'm just getting in the tangled
web myself. But you know what I mean. So you
just have to remember that, and you have to remember,
how do I feel in this relationship? Is this worth it? No?
That I need to do what I need to do
to feel safe. Also, if you're ever wondering how to
(11:15):
tell if you are in a relationship with somebody with
a personality disorder, a simple question I just asked myself,
is do I feel crazy? Huh? Then that might be
a red flag because most likely you didn't feel crazy
before this relationship. So when you start to feel crazy,
when your head starts spinning, hey, maybe this is a
red flag. So do what you need to do to
(11:35):
feel safe. If it feels extreme, that's okay because extreme
measures are needed to be taken when you're working with
extreme behavior. And uh, I think that does it. Think
we're gonna wrap it up there, Thank you for that question.
I'm actually working on getting some more content and some
more episodes out around narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder and
all that stuff. So stay tuned for that, and I
(11:58):
hope you guys are having the day you need to have.
I am in Disney World right now with my family.
I went actually in surprise my two little nieces. They
didn't know it was coming. Right now, as I'm recording this,
it hasn't happened yet, but I'm going to surprise them,
and I'm so excited, so I hope you're having the
day that you need to have. I'm most likely I'm
having the day that I need to have, and I
(12:19):
will talk to you guys again on Monday.
Hi guys, and welcome back to another new episode of
Couch Talks on You Need Therapy. My name is Kat
and I am the host. Here. Couch Talks is the
special bonus episode of You Need Therapy where I answer
questions that you, the listeners, send into me, and you
can send those into Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast
(00:31):
dot com and maybe one day I will get to
your question. So usually I answer questions that, like I said,
you send into that email. However, last week I put
an instant pull out when I was well, I guess
this is a couple of weeks ago, when I was
in isolation from having COVID, I had some time on
my hands, so I did an Instagram question box and
(00:53):
you guys sent in tons of questions and really good questions,
some that were even too complicated for me to answer
on Instagram. So I kept a lot of them and
I might pull some of them into couch Talks, which
is what I'm doing today. So before we get into this,
like usual, just want to remind you guys that I
am a therapist, and at the same time, this is
(01:14):
not therapy. This is just a therapist talking to you
and you'll find if you go to therapy, or maybe
you just are starting to listen to a lot of
mental health stuff. Therapists don't actually give advice. They help
you kind of figure out what you need. And sometimes
I might answer questions and actually give you an answer.
A lot of times I'm asking you questions back and
helping you figure out what you need based on this
(01:36):
like pseudo conversation we're having over a podcast. So I
just wanted to throw that out there as always that
this is not a replacement for actual mental health services,
but let's get into it. Also another side note, a
lot of people in this question box, and I still
get these emails all the time, and I still get
these d m s all the time. A lot of
(01:57):
people ask me how to find a therapist over and
over again. And I love that question because I love
that you want to go to therapy. And I actually
have a slide on the you Need Therapy podcast page
at you Need Therapy Podcast that is also on my Highlights,
so you can just go to that page and it's
at the top that answers this question for everybody. This
(02:17):
question is very valid, and I have new people on
here all the time, so I totally get that you've
missed when I've actually answered that on couch Shocks, because
I've actually done that one or two times as well.
So I want to continue to be able to be
a resource for you to ask that question. But because
I've already answered it, I want to link that Instagram
(02:38):
post in the show notes, you guys can go to
that and and check that out and you already have
an answer there. And also, as much as I would
love to be able to do this, I cannot individually
help everyone find a therapist in your area, especially if
you don't live in the Nashville area. I really don't know.
(03:00):
I sometimes have connections and have resources that I can
reach out to when I'm trying to find resources for
clients and stuff like that, And at the same time,
like I really am not connected to like a large
pool of therapists all over the country. So if you
are looking for a referral for me for somebody in
your area, I most likely don't have that. So just
(03:21):
go to that post and read those tips and hopefully
those can help you find that this question in particular
is and was asking about narcissism. I also have a
whole episode on this that I highly recommend you listening
to that. I will also link. But this question was
speaking to what to do when you have a family
member who continues to reach out and write letters to
(03:43):
you and ask you to be in a relationship with
them or have a relationship with them, over and over,
but they never actually make any changes and you continuously
get hurt. So I'm just going to assume that a
lot of you are like, oh my gosh, that feels
like me. Even if you don't have somebody writing letters
to you, might have some continuously texting you or just
reaching out to you or doing something. And this is
(04:06):
a really tough spot to be in. So I'm going
to be pretty general in answering this question. Now. In
the episode that I already did that goes into depth
about narcissism and empt, I talk about the difference of
having traits of narcissism, which we basically all have and
somewhat need to survive in the world, and being narcissistic
(04:27):
and actually having narcissistic personality disorder. We throw this label
out way too much these days on basically like anybody
who's an asshole. So I'm going to answer this question
with the assumption that this person really does have a
diagnosable case of MPD, meaning that they meet the requirements
in the d S M five and have truly a
(04:48):
lack of empathy towards other people. Very simply to answer
this question in the most general way, you do what
you need to do to feel safe, no questions asked. Like,
you do what you need to do to feel safe,
and if it feels extreme, that's okay, because when you're
dealing with somebody like this, it is abnormal and it
is extreme, and so a lot of times it takes
(05:10):
extreme behaviors to protect yourself. And I think a lot
of people are like, I don't want to be dramatic,
or I don't want to be this, or I don't
want to be that, but like, this is a dramatic situation.
Having somebody like this in your life is something that
will require actions and behaviors and boundaries that you don't
need with healthy, regulated humans. This is where also actions
(05:32):
become immensely more important than promises and words. A lot
of us are words people. I think that words of
affirmation is the most common love language that there is
out there. However, was someone who has narcissistic personality disorder.
Words are one of their most magical tools. And let
me remind you, guys, and maybe you haven't heard this yet,
(05:53):
but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing
over and over and over and over again expect geting
a different result. And if we do this dance with somebody,
if we do this thing where it's like, you hurt me, Okay,
I take you back, you hurt me. I promise that
I will do better. I'm so sorry, I'm this bad
person and I love you so much. Okay, I'll take
you back. You hurt me. I'm so sorry. If we
(06:14):
do this dance over and over and over again thinking
that at some point it's going to be different, we
are creating an insane cycle. Also, there's no rules somewhere
that says to be a good person you have to
give people unlimited chances to change. If someone hurts us,
we get to decide if they are allowed back in
our lives. On strike one. You don't have to wait
(06:35):
until strike three or four or five or six or
seven or eight or nine. You can have one thing
happened and you'd be like, I'm I'm not that's not
for me. I think that everybody just wants to be
a good person, and we want to give people the
benefit of the doubt. And I say everybody if that's
just me, but I know that I always want to
give people the benefit of the doubt because there's just
(06:56):
part of me that that wants to believe that everybody
in insittically is good and everybody can be born good
and people can be bad for us. So the other
thing is to essentially cut people out of our lives.
They don't have to have a personality disorder. They can
just be somebody that doesn't fit well with what we
(07:16):
need and what we can handle on what feels right
to us. But that's kind of a whole different conversation.
So this really comes down to boundaries. It sounds like
this person already made the decision that they don't want
this person in their lives, but the letters keep coming in.
So again, you do whatever you need to do to
feel safe. You block email, you return to sender the letters,
(07:37):
or you throw them out. Do not read these letters.
This is where like I'm like bordering on I don't
give people advice. If I was going to give you advice,
do not read these letters, because, like I said, words
of affirmation might be you're like love language, and they
know what to say, how to say it, when to
say it, and this can become a trap for you
(07:59):
if you do the so over and over, these letters
can become like junk mail that you're just like, oh,
this thing again, and you get rid of it. This
thing again, and you get rid of it. People that
have narcissistic personality disorder are usually very, very very intelligent.
They are cunning, they are manipulative. They know what to do,
when to do it, how to do it. They know
how to pull emotions without getting their emotions involved, but
(08:21):
they know how to make you think their emotions are involved.
And they know you probably well enough to know what
to say, how to say it, and how to make
you think that just maybe you should give in. And
they also have a beautiful way of making it look
like things are your fault, like all of a sudden,
you feel all this guilt because you're the one making
it impossible for you to have a loving relationship with
(08:41):
this person, and you have to remember, Nope, this is
not me, and yeah, you may be the one holding
the line now, but this is a consequence to their actions,
not yours, and may I add, and this goes to
everyone about everything. You do not need people to agree
with your choices for them to be right choices you
don't you need to agree with them. That's it. So
(09:03):
you need to do what you need to do to
feel safe. You have to worry about your needs first
and every else's needs second. And I know this is hard,
but if a relationship is costing your mental health, what's
the point of the relationship. If it's costing your mental health,
what is the point Because then you have this relationship
but you have horrible mental health. Think about it. So
(09:24):
to answer this question again very simply, you do what
you need to do to feel safe. The thing about
people with narcissism or narcissistic personality disorder, I should say,
is one of the things that they do so well
is play this role of this caring person. But a
mandatory trait of this disorder, of this personality disorder, is
(09:47):
a lack of empathy. So they may look like they
have this desire and true like care and love and
there's this hole in their heart without you, But this
is you usually a role they're playing in order to
get you back in their good graces because they need
people to look at them as these good people. That's
(10:09):
how they get their self worth and their value. But
it's a role, Like I'm telling you these people a
lot of times, which is so wild to think about
a lot of people with narcissistic personalities or actually have
jobs and like things like nonprofits or do these do
good organizations. But this is just a way for them
to create this image of this good person. So they
(10:31):
might be able to do like an interview where they're
like crying and having all this like what looks like
real emotion, but they're like actors and that's actually not real.
And it's a way for them to create this image
in your head of this good person. So then when
you are like, oh, I'm doing this thing and taking
care of myself, you look back to that and you're like,
(10:52):
but they're so good, how could they? Of course they are, like,
of course, blah blah. I can't even say my words
straight right now because I'm just getting in the tangled
web myself. But you know what I mean. So you
just have to remember that, and you have to remember,
how do I feel in this relationship? Is this worth it? No?
That I need to do what I need to do
to feel safe. Also, if you're ever wondering how to
(11:15):
tell if you are in a relationship with somebody with
a personality disorder, a simple question I just asked myself,
is do I feel crazy? Huh? Then that might be
a red flag because most likely you didn't feel crazy
before this relationship. So when you start to feel crazy,
when your head starts spinning, hey, maybe this is a
red flag. So do what you need to do to
(11:35):
feel safe. If it feels extreme, that's okay because extreme
measures are needed to be taken when you're working with
extreme behavior. And uh, I think that does it. Think
we're gonna wrap it up there, Thank you for that question.
I'm actually working on getting some more content and some
more episodes out around narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder and
all that stuff. So stay tuned for that, and I
(11:58):
hope you guys are having the day you need to have.
I am in Disney World right now with my family.
I went actually in surprise my two little nieces. They
didn't know it was coming. Right now, as I'm recording this,
it hasn't happened yet, but I'm going to surprise them,
and I'm so excited, so I hope you're having the
day that you need to have. I'm most likely I'm
having the day that I need to have, and I
(12:19):
will talk to you guys again on Monday.
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