November 4, 2024 • 20 mins
This week, Kat is helping us differentiate between having a heated debate and having a respectful conversation. Every human is going to find themselves in a conversation where they do not agree with some of the other parties involved. While that may not be fun or ideal— it doesn’t mean you have to fight them! In this episode you will learn how reframing the goals of your “disagreements” allows you to understand your peers, friends, and partners better and vice versa.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I started to realize that not being an expert isn't
a liability, it's a real gift.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
If we don't know something about ourselves at this point
in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.
If you can die before you die, then you can
really live. There's a wisdom at death's door. I thought
I was insane. Yeah, and I didn't know what to
do because there was no internet.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything
is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a
human first and a licensed therapist second. And right now
I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope encourage you
to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,
(00:54):
and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy.
Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You
Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat, I am the host,
and quick reminder before we get into today's episode that
although this podcast is hosted by a therapist and it's
called You Need Therapy, it does not serve as a
(01:14):
replacement or a substitute for any actual mental health services. However,
we always hope that these episodes help the people that
are listening in some way at some point in their lives.
Let's get into what we are here to talk about today.
So it's all about how to disagree well, how to
have fruitful conversations where the goal is not to change
(01:37):
somebody's mind, and the goal is not for your mind
to be changed, but the goal is just to have
a conversation with somebody that maybe you don't have the
same take with.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
And this doesn't have to.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Just be a debates like on big political topics or
just some of the very popular debate.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Topics in the world. It doesn't have to just be
about that stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
This can be about experiences that you've had, maybe some
arguments you've had based on you guys both having different
experiences at the same time. It's something that I think
can be helpful in a lot of different kinds of conflicts.
And I've talked a lot about our current cultures and
abilities to sit with differing opinions and our constant pursuit
(02:18):
of right and wrong many times on this podcast. I
feel like I bring it up a lot because it
is part of so many of the things.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
That we struggle with in this world. And when I
think about that.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
There's one experience that really pops up in my head
very vibrantly, and it was a couple of years ago.
I actually became, since this experience, pretty disappointed in myself
after I cut off an opportunity for really maybe difficult
but also fruitful conversation abruptly because the person I was
(02:54):
talking to had a different opinion than mine. And I
can admit now that in that instance I just felt
incredibly self righteous and protective and correct. I just cut
off the ability to have any conversation because I wasn't
interested in hearing it. But it wasn't just because I
wasn't interested in hearing this person's opinion or take, although
(03:19):
I would have said that back then, and it was
actually a couple years after this happened. I was sitting
in a therapist's office that I was seeing, not my
own office, and I brought up through something else, this
residual feeling that I had of this just achiness from
that experience from that moment, and to be honest, I
(03:43):
doubt the other parties that were involved in that conversation
even remember and would remember what I'm talking about, but
it actually had changed how I felt about them because
I just created some stories and assumed things because I
wasn't willing to have a conversation. And I don't really
like that, and that's what I kind of brought up
in therapy a couple months ago. And when we have
(04:06):
conversations with people who have different opinions or outlooks, I see,
and also I'm included in this. I see a lot
of those conversations coming from a place where I'm trying
to convince the other person that I'm right and they're wrong,
versus just helping someone understand why I think what I think,
(04:26):
or being open to understand why somebody else thinks what
they think. And if we are trying to be right
and prove that point, then we're not actually able to
listen openly. We don't do that. We're listening defensively, and
because of that, we're not able to better understand our
friends because we're listening to find ways to prove our points.
And I know that I lost an opportunity to understand
(04:49):
somebody better because I was afraid that listening to them
would make me not like them. But then I was
later making up stories about them because I didn't have
that conversation and I made up how that conversation would
have gone in my head, and I was really lacking
the awareness that you can disagree with a person's opinion
and still like them, which seems so simple but at
the same time very difficult. And maybe if I understood
(05:12):
more about why their opinion was what it was and
why they thought what they thought, then I would be
able to know that I can like somebody and still
love somebody and disagree with them on big important things.
But if we don't allow ourselves to have those conversations,
then we don't allow ourselves to gain that evidence and
believe that that is a true thing that can happen.
(05:33):
And I know in my upbringing, going through school, we
were taught how to debate. It was part of it
was like a project that we did in high school.
We all had to do it. We were literally taught
how to have debates. We were taught how to win
arguments growing up, but we weren't taught how to respectfully
disagree with somebody, which is very interesting to me because
(05:54):
just because you can win an argument, it doesn't necessarily
mean you are right. So why wouldn't we want to
know more about how to coexist than how to pick.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Aside and prove it.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And as I was preparing for this episode, I found
an article on Psychology Today that it gave like six
steps and tips to help have conversations with somebody that
you don't agree with in a healthy, functional way. And
they were good starting points, but also they were a
little bit too direct from my taste, so I've actually
decided not to share those because I like to give
(06:28):
frameworks that allow people to make things their own and
allow things to feel authentic to them versus just going
through the motions. So I kind of reworked some of
what I've found to give more simple and tangible tips
versus these linear steps that you have to engage in
that tell you exactly how to have a conversation. So
(06:50):
I want you to take these how you want, and
really if you use them, and when you use them,
I want you to assess how using these tips they're
not steps, they're just they're really just suggestions. Assess how
they allow you to show up more regulated in disagreements,
because when we are having these really heated disagreements, a
lot of times we become disregulated and then we don't
(07:11):
even actually show up how we really want to show
up with people. So let's just get into what I
came up with. So I think for starters, number one,
what I would really suggest to people is, let's acknowledge
that we don't have to be persuaded in these conversations,
and we don't have to persuade the other person. This
is not about convincing somebody that you are correct. Disagreements
(07:36):
can end in disagreeing, and they kind of have to
have the ability to do that because there's not always
a right or wrong in situations. Not everything is so
black and white. So we can hold our beliefs still
while also listening with respect to our peers, our friends,
our partners. So I really, in the beginning want to
(07:57):
encourage people to name the real goal here as understanding
versus convincing. And then number two, I believe it is
super helpful to kindly acknowledge that you guys do not agree.
From the beginning, that seems kind of silly. Establishing this
awareness that you are different might seem a little like
(08:19):
duh obviously at certain times in these conversations. However, what
it does is it sets you both up to be
able to show up independently and free to do that
it kind of just I think sometimes levels the playing
field and allows some relief to come. And this can
sound differently depending on who you are, but an easy
(08:39):
way to acknowledge this is just to say, hey, I
know we share different perspectives on what happened, and that's okay.
I really want to help you understand why I think
X y Z, and I also want to understand you
as well. And it may not change our minds on
what we think, but it might help change how we
(09:00):
feel about each other.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
So are you open to that?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And again, you can say that in your own words,
however it would naturally come out of your mouth. You
don't have to follow this exact script. And then the
next little tip I have, number three is assuming this
is someone you respect and care for, can you show
up and take a stance of assumption of good intent
(09:25):
to start out with Let's just start with that versus
starting to kind of play that gotcha game and waiting
for a chance to step in and tell them why
they're wrong. If we love and respect this person, and
they're person that's important to us and that we have
a relationship with that we want to foster to any degree,
(09:45):
let's assume that they are good meaning people to begin with,
versus trying to prove why they are bad or wrong
or what have you. So listen for why what they
are saying makes sense for them versus you. Their opinion
is not about you, it's about them, and also vice versa,
your opinion is about you.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
So listen to why what they're.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Saying makes sense for them versus you and your experience
of the world. And with that number four, ask for
clarification when you still don't understand something, And remember, understanding
here is different than agreeing. Stay in the lane of
curiosity over judgment. I love that as a phrase to
(10:29):
replay over and over in my head. Stay curious versus judgmental.
And remember that understanding why someone thinks something does not
mean that you agree. So we are trying to understand them,
We are not trying to agree with them. Therefore, when
you don't understand it, it's not because you haven't been convinced.
Do not wait to be convinced or wait for them
(10:49):
to be convinced. That's again go.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Back to the first tip.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It's really not the goal in how to disagree, Well,
that's the goal, and how to convince somebody that you're right,
proving your point right, that's the goal, proving your point.
So the next one number five, which I really imagine
at some point you're gonna be in one of these conversations,
Like talking about them on this podcast seems really like, oh,
(11:14):
this is so light and fun and disagreeing can be
so beautiful and care free and oh so soothing. Okay,
but probably not. There's gonna be a lot of instances
where you're having these conversations where you are like, oh
my gosh, this is driving me crazy. What they're saying
is making me feel crazy. I want to yell, I
want to tell them, I want to just say something unfiltered.
(11:37):
It's not all gonna feel really rainbows and butterflies. There's
gonna be tension. And when somebody says something that to
you feels outrageous or crazy or like something that you'd
want to be like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
When somebody says something wild that you think is wild,
that is okay. This is gonna happen, I assume, And
it's not our job to criticize their views here, and
it's totally cool to say, hey, I hear you say
you believe x y.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Z because of ABC and then leave it there.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It might still feel crazy to you to say that,
but again that's not the point. You're trying to understand somebody,
so that will probably be really hard. You'll want to
defend and disprove and educate in all the things, and
you can do that, but again that would not align
with the goal of understanding somebody versus being right, So
always go back to that goal. You're not trying to
(12:35):
convince them that they're wrong or that they are crazy.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
The goal is to.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Understand why they think what they think. So I hear
you say you believe blank because of blank? Boom, got it,
Which leads us to the next little tip. When necessary,
So this is number six. But when when necessary, especially
when you think something is wild and out or you
justin't crazy, do repeat back what you say that same sentence, right,
(13:02):
I hear you say you believe x y Z because
of ABC, repeat it back and say did I get
it right? Because a lot of times, when we have
a lot of emotion in conversations and when things do
feel wild to us, we start hearing stories in our
head that actually have not come out of this person's mouth.
So it's very, very very important to say, I hear
(13:24):
you say exactly what they said versus how you interpreted it.
And if you interpreted it incorrectly and you said something
they didn't say, they get the chance to say, oh, no,
that's I didn't say that. Let me try again, and
then they can say it again, and then you can
say back to them, Okay, so I heard you say
da da da da da da da da. Did I
get it right? And do that until they say, yeah,
(13:47):
you got it. And again, this is I'm repeating what
I heard, not what I made up about what I heard.
And this will help you keep in line with that
goal and allow those emotions to be there and acknowledge
that they're there and they're going to come up. But
I need to slow myself down before I start making
stories and get confused not about what they're actually saying,
(14:11):
but about the story that I'm making up about what
they're saying. So repeat and ask for clarification. And then
the last thing, number seven, The seventh tip that I
want to offer to you guys, is summarize anything new
that you learned that actually might have been helpful to you,
or that actually might have been interesting anything that you
(14:32):
got out of that conversation. And again this does not
mean that you are then agreeing with them and they've
changed your mind. It can just be like, oh, wow,
I actually learned something in this conversation, and I want
to thank you for that. So, wow, that's really interesting
what you shared about drug overdoses. I was not aware
of that, and I actually really do want to learn
(14:53):
more about that.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
And I also really appreciate the chance.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
To learn more about you, even if I don't fully
agree with everything saying, so you get to offer a
little bit of hey, this wasn't just us disagreeing. We
both can get something out of this. We both can
understand each other better, and hey, I might learn something
along the way. And just because I learned something along
the way doesn't mean I'm saying I agree with you.
(15:16):
It's just saying, hey, this was helpful and I appreciate it.
So I really think it can be helpful at the
end to acknowledge things that you have learned, even though
you have not totally decided that you now agree with
what they're saying. It doesn't have to be this all
or nothing, black and white situation because rarely it is okay.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
So those are my seven tips.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And I do want to say I realize that this
is easier said than done, and it's going to take
some practice in some time for this to feel natural
if you have never thought about, or learned or attempted
to have fruitful conversations when you disagree, and I also
want to acknowledge that.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It can be really difficult.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
You're impossible to have a respectful conversation on your own.
So what I mean by that is the other party
involved in these conversations really also needs to come from
a similar place for this to be fruitful. And if
they can't, that is totally okay. And it's okay for
you to say, hey, I really want to be able
(16:20):
to talk about this and learn from you and have
a conversation with you here. However, I can really only
do that if we both agree to aim for understanding
versus a win on either of our side. And so
if we can't agree on a goal for this conversation,
I don't know if it would be really helpful for
us to have it, because then it can kind of
(16:40):
make things worse if your goals are not aligning in
those conversations. And it's also okay for to ask for
a break when you need it, even if you guys
both agreed on a goal for this conversation, because things
can still get heated and heavy, and when we enter
into our survival brain, we lose our full capacity to
reason and allow understanding to be a goal when we
(17:02):
are operating from a place of pure emotion. So ask
for a break, and it doesn't have to be a
thirty minute break, and be like, hey, I feel myself
getting really hot, I feel myself getting really jumbled. Hey,
I feel myself getting overwhelmed. Give me a second. I'm
gonna reply, and I want to continue to have this conversation,
(17:24):
but I just need a second. And you can do
that in the conversation and it can be like a minute,
or you can just like, hey, I'm gonna go walk
outside and take a couple of breasts and then come
back in. I say a lot of times in my
conversations that are difficult, and it doesn't even have to
be one where where I'm disagreeing with somebody, but just
difficult conversations because I have really had to learn how
to slow myself down sometimes because I can just go
(17:46):
at it I try to be very slow to respond,
and I let the person know like, hey, I'm not
not responding. I'm gathering my thoughts before I say something,
because I want to make sure I'm saying what I
want to say. Says another little thing you can do. Okay,
So I know this was a shorter episode. However, I
(18:07):
also think this can be a really helpful episode for
the majority of people out there, because we are all
going to have a disagreement with somebody at some point
in our lives, and why wouldn't we want to be
able to do that well, So I, like I said,
encourage you to take this as a practice. How can
I get better at having these conversations versus? How can
I be perfect at disagreeing because that it does not exist?
(18:31):
And just be really kind to yourself as you practice
new ways to communicate in a way that is going
to work better for you in the long run. If
you would like to follow the podcast, if you would
like to follow me, you can do that at You
Need Therapy podcast on Instagram, and you can also follow
my therapy practice at three Quarts Therapy on Instagram. If
(18:51):
you have any questions, feedback, thoughts that you want to share,
you can email me Katherine kat Hrym at you Need
Therapy podcast dot com And if you have not done
so yet and maybe you're a new listener, I would
love love, love, love love in the season of giving
and holiday cheer. If you guys would rate and review
(19:14):
this podcast specifically on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, you can
do that. Spotify's at the top, Apple it is probably
more towards the bottom. If you want to leave a
kind little comment what you like, some constructive feedback if
you feel necessary. I also am very open to that
kind of stuff through email as well. If you want
(19:34):
to share something that you liked or something that didn't
sit well, or just some feedback in general, you can
always do that. Always open to it because I always
want to learn and grow, just how the people listening
to this podcast usually are listening because they also want
to learn and grow. So until Wednesday, when I come
back for couch Talks, I hope you guys have the
(19:55):
day you need to have and I will talk to
you soon.
I started to realize that not being an expert isn't
a liability, it's a real gift.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
If we don't know something about ourselves at this point
in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.
If you can die before you die, then you can
really live. There's a wisdom at death's door. I thought
I was insane. Yeah, and I didn't know what to
do because there was no internet.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything
is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a
human first and a licensed therapist second. And right now
I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope encourage you
to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,
(00:54):
and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy.
Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You
Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat, I am the host,
and quick reminder before we get into today's episode that
although this podcast is hosted by a therapist and it's
called You Need Therapy, it does not serve as a
(01:14):
replacement or a substitute for any actual mental health services. However,
we always hope that these episodes help the people that
are listening in some way at some point in their lives.
Let's get into what we are here to talk about today.
So it's all about how to disagree well, how to
have fruitful conversations where the goal is not to change
(01:37):
somebody's mind, and the goal is not for your mind
to be changed, but the goal is just to have
a conversation with somebody that maybe you don't have the
same take with.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
And this doesn't have to.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Just be a debates like on big political topics or
just some of the very popular debate.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Topics in the world. It doesn't have to just be
about that stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
This can be about experiences that you've had, maybe some
arguments you've had based on you guys both having different
experiences at the same time. It's something that I think
can be helpful in a lot of different kinds of conflicts.
And I've talked a lot about our current cultures and
abilities to sit with differing opinions and our constant pursuit
(02:18):
of right and wrong many times on this podcast. I
feel like I bring it up a lot because it
is part of so many of the things.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
That we struggle with in this world. And when I
think about that.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
There's one experience that really pops up in my head
very vibrantly, and it was a couple of years ago.
I actually became, since this experience, pretty disappointed in myself
after I cut off an opportunity for really maybe difficult
but also fruitful conversation abruptly because the person I was
(02:54):
talking to had a different opinion than mine. And I
can admit now that in that instance I just felt
incredibly self righteous and protective and correct. I just cut
off the ability to have any conversation because I wasn't
interested in hearing it. But it wasn't just because I
wasn't interested in hearing this person's opinion or take, although
(03:19):
I would have said that back then, and it was
actually a couple years after this happened. I was sitting
in a therapist's office that I was seeing, not my
own office, and I brought up through something else, this
residual feeling that I had of this just achiness from
that experience from that moment, and to be honest, I
(03:43):
doubt the other parties that were involved in that conversation
even remember and would remember what I'm talking about, but
it actually had changed how I felt about them because
I just created some stories and assumed things because I
wasn't willing to have a conversation. And I don't really
like that, and that's what I kind of brought up
in therapy a couple months ago. And when we have
(04:06):
conversations with people who have different opinions or outlooks, I see,
and also I'm included in this. I see a lot
of those conversations coming from a place where I'm trying
to convince the other person that I'm right and they're wrong,
versus just helping someone understand why I think what I think,
(04:26):
or being open to understand why somebody else thinks what
they think. And if we are trying to be right
and prove that point, then we're not actually able to
listen openly. We don't do that. We're listening defensively, and
because of that, we're not able to better understand our
friends because we're listening to find ways to prove our points.
And I know that I lost an opportunity to understand
(04:49):
somebody better because I was afraid that listening to them
would make me not like them. But then I was
later making up stories about them because I didn't have
that conversation and I made up how that conversation would
have gone in my head, and I was really lacking
the awareness that you can disagree with a person's opinion
and still like them, which seems so simple but at
the same time very difficult. And maybe if I understood
(05:12):
more about why their opinion was what it was and
why they thought what they thought, then I would be
able to know that I can like somebody and still
love somebody and disagree with them on big important things.
But if we don't allow ourselves to have those conversations,
then we don't allow ourselves to gain that evidence and
believe that that is a true thing that can happen.
(05:33):
And I know in my upbringing, going through school, we
were taught how to debate. It was part of it
was like a project that we did in high school.
We all had to do it. We were literally taught
how to have debates. We were taught how to win
arguments growing up, but we weren't taught how to respectfully
disagree with somebody, which is very interesting to me because
(05:54):
just because you can win an argument, it doesn't necessarily
mean you are right. So why wouldn't we want to
know more about how to coexist than how to pick.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Aside and prove it.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And as I was preparing for this episode, I found
an article on Psychology Today that it gave like six
steps and tips to help have conversations with somebody that
you don't agree with in a healthy, functional way. And
they were good starting points, but also they were a
little bit too direct from my taste, so I've actually
decided not to share those because I like to give
(06:28):
frameworks that allow people to make things their own and
allow things to feel authentic to them versus just going
through the motions. So I kind of reworked some of
what I've found to give more simple and tangible tips
versus these linear steps that you have to engage in
that tell you exactly how to have a conversation. So
(06:50):
I want you to take these how you want, and
really if you use them, and when you use them,
I want you to assess how using these tips they're
not steps, they're just they're really just suggestions. Assess how
they allow you to show up more regulated in disagreements,
because when we are having these really heated disagreements, a
lot of times we become disregulated and then we don't
(07:11):
even actually show up how we really want to show
up with people. So let's just get into what I
came up with. So I think for starters, number one,
what I would really suggest to people is, let's acknowledge
that we don't have to be persuaded in these conversations,
and we don't have to persuade the other person. This
is not about convincing somebody that you are correct. Disagreements
(07:36):
can end in disagreeing, and they kind of have to
have the ability to do that because there's not always
a right or wrong in situations. Not everything is so
black and white. So we can hold our beliefs still
while also listening with respect to our peers, our friends,
our partners. So I really, in the beginning want to
(07:57):
encourage people to name the real goal here as understanding
versus convincing. And then number two, I believe it is
super helpful to kindly acknowledge that you guys do not agree.
From the beginning, that seems kind of silly. Establishing this
awareness that you are different might seem a little like
(08:19):
duh obviously at certain times in these conversations. However, what
it does is it sets you both up to be
able to show up independently and free to do that
it kind of just I think sometimes levels the playing
field and allows some relief to come. And this can
sound differently depending on who you are, but an easy
(08:39):
way to acknowledge this is just to say, hey, I
know we share different perspectives on what happened, and that's okay.
I really want to help you understand why I think
X y Z, and I also want to understand you
as well. And it may not change our minds on
what we think, but it might help change how we
(09:00):
feel about each other.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
So are you open to that?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And again, you can say that in your own words,
however it would naturally come out of your mouth. You
don't have to follow this exact script. And then the
next little tip I have, number three is assuming this
is someone you respect and care for, can you show
up and take a stance of assumption of good intent
(09:25):
to start out with Let's just start with that versus
starting to kind of play that gotcha game and waiting
for a chance to step in and tell them why
they're wrong. If we love and respect this person, and
they're person that's important to us and that we have
a relationship with that we want to foster to any degree,
(09:45):
let's assume that they are good meaning people to begin with,
versus trying to prove why they are bad or wrong
or what have you. So listen for why what they
are saying makes sense for them versus you. Their opinion
is not about you, it's about them, and also vice versa,
your opinion is about you.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
So listen to why what they're.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Saying makes sense for them versus you and your experience
of the world. And with that number four, ask for
clarification when you still don't understand something, And remember, understanding
here is different than agreeing. Stay in the lane of
curiosity over judgment. I love that as a phrase to
(10:29):
replay over and over in my head. Stay curious versus judgmental.
And remember that understanding why someone thinks something does not
mean that you agree. So we are trying to understand them,
We are not trying to agree with them. Therefore, when
you don't understand it, it's not because you haven't been convinced.
Do not wait to be convinced or wait for them
(10:49):
to be convinced. That's again go.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Back to the first tip.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It's really not the goal in how to disagree, Well,
that's the goal, and how to convince somebody that you're right,
proving your point right, that's the goal, proving your point.
So the next one number five, which I really imagine
at some point you're gonna be in one of these conversations,
Like talking about them on this podcast seems really like, oh,
(11:14):
this is so light and fun and disagreeing can be
so beautiful and care free and oh so soothing. Okay,
but probably not. There's gonna be a lot of instances
where you're having these conversations where you are like, oh
my gosh, this is driving me crazy. What they're saying
is making me feel crazy. I want to yell, I
want to tell them, I want to just say something unfiltered.
(11:37):
It's not all gonna feel really rainbows and butterflies. There's
gonna be tension. And when somebody says something that to
you feels outrageous or crazy or like something that you'd
want to be like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
When somebody says something wild that you think is wild,
that is okay. This is gonna happen, I assume, And
it's not our job to criticize their views here, and
it's totally cool to say, hey, I hear you say
you believe x y.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Z because of ABC and then leave it there.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It might still feel crazy to you to say that,
but again that's not the point. You're trying to understand somebody,
so that will probably be really hard. You'll want to
defend and disprove and educate in all the things, and
you can do that, but again that would not align
with the goal of understanding somebody versus being right, So
always go back to that goal. You're not trying to
(12:35):
convince them that they're wrong or that they are crazy.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
The goal is to.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Understand why they think what they think. So I hear
you say you believe blank because of blank? Boom, got it,
Which leads us to the next little tip. When necessary,
So this is number six. But when when necessary, especially
when you think something is wild and out or you
justin't crazy, do repeat back what you say that same sentence, right,
(13:02):
I hear you say you believe x y Z because
of ABC, repeat it back and say did I get
it right? Because a lot of times, when we have
a lot of emotion in conversations and when things do
feel wild to us, we start hearing stories in our
head that actually have not come out of this person's mouth.
So it's very, very very important to say, I hear
(13:24):
you say exactly what they said versus how you interpreted it.
And if you interpreted it incorrectly and you said something
they didn't say, they get the chance to say, oh, no,
that's I didn't say that. Let me try again, and
then they can say it again, and then you can
say back to them, Okay, so I heard you say
da da da da da da da da. Did I
get it right? And do that until they say, yeah,
(13:47):
you got it. And again, this is I'm repeating what
I heard, not what I made up about what I heard.
And this will help you keep in line with that
goal and allow those emotions to be there and acknowledge
that they're there and they're going to come up. But
I need to slow myself down before I start making
stories and get confused not about what they're actually saying,
(14:11):
but about the story that I'm making up about what
they're saying. So repeat and ask for clarification. And then
the last thing, number seven, The seventh tip that I
want to offer to you guys, is summarize anything new
that you learned that actually might have been helpful to you,
or that actually might have been interesting anything that you
(14:32):
got out of that conversation. And again this does not
mean that you are then agreeing with them and they've
changed your mind. It can just be like, oh, wow,
I actually learned something in this conversation, and I want
to thank you for that. So, wow, that's really interesting
what you shared about drug overdoses. I was not aware
of that, and I actually really do want to learn
(14:53):
more about that.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
And I also really appreciate the chance.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
To learn more about you, even if I don't fully
agree with everything saying, so you get to offer a
little bit of hey, this wasn't just us disagreeing. We
both can get something out of this. We both can
understand each other better, and hey, I might learn something
along the way. And just because I learned something along
the way doesn't mean I'm saying I agree with you.
(15:16):
It's just saying, hey, this was helpful and I appreciate it.
So I really think it can be helpful at the
end to acknowledge things that you have learned, even though
you have not totally decided that you now agree with
what they're saying. It doesn't have to be this all
or nothing, black and white situation because rarely it is okay.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
So those are my seven tips.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And I do want to say I realize that this
is easier said than done, and it's going to take
some practice in some time for this to feel natural
if you have never thought about, or learned or attempted
to have fruitful conversations when you disagree, and I also
want to acknowledge that.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It can be really difficult.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
You're impossible to have a respectful conversation on your own.
So what I mean by that is the other party
involved in these conversations really also needs to come from
a similar place for this to be fruitful. And if
they can't, that is totally okay. And it's okay for
you to say, hey, I really want to be able
(16:20):
to talk about this and learn from you and have
a conversation with you here. However, I can really only
do that if we both agree to aim for understanding
versus a win on either of our side. And so
if we can't agree on a goal for this conversation,
I don't know if it would be really helpful for
us to have it, because then it can kind of
(16:40):
make things worse if your goals are not aligning in
those conversations. And it's also okay for to ask for
a break when you need it, even if you guys
both agreed on a goal for this conversation, because things
can still get heated and heavy, and when we enter
into our survival brain, we lose our full capacity to
reason and allow understanding to be a goal when we
(17:02):
are operating from a place of pure emotion. So ask
for a break, and it doesn't have to be a
thirty minute break, and be like, hey, I feel myself
getting really hot, I feel myself getting really jumbled. Hey,
I feel myself getting overwhelmed. Give me a second. I'm
gonna reply, and I want to continue to have this conversation,
(17:24):
but I just need a second. And you can do
that in the conversation and it can be like a minute,
or you can just like, hey, I'm gonna go walk
outside and take a couple of breasts and then come
back in. I say a lot of times in my
conversations that are difficult, and it doesn't even have to
be one where where I'm disagreeing with somebody, but just
difficult conversations because I have really had to learn how
to slow myself down sometimes because I can just go
(17:46):
at it I try to be very slow to respond,
and I let the person know like, hey, I'm not
not responding. I'm gathering my thoughts before I say something,
because I want to make sure I'm saying what I
want to say. Says another little thing you can do. Okay,
So I know this was a shorter episode. However, I
(18:07):
also think this can be a really helpful episode for
the majority of people out there, because we are all
going to have a disagreement with somebody at some point
in our lives, and why wouldn't we want to be
able to do that well, So I, like I said,
encourage you to take this as a practice. How can
I get better at having these conversations versus? How can
I be perfect at disagreeing because that it does not exist?
(18:31):
And just be really kind to yourself as you practice
new ways to communicate in a way that is going
to work better for you in the long run. If
you would like to follow the podcast, if you would
like to follow me, you can do that at You
Need Therapy podcast on Instagram, and you can also follow
my therapy practice at three Quarts Therapy on Instagram. If
(18:51):
you have any questions, feedback, thoughts that you want to share,
you can email me Katherine kat Hrym at you Need
Therapy podcast dot com And if you have not done
so yet and maybe you're a new listener, I would
love love, love, love love in the season of giving
and holiday cheer. If you guys would rate and review
(19:14):
this podcast specifically on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, you can
do that. Spotify's at the top, Apple it is probably
more towards the bottom. If you want to leave a
kind little comment what you like, some constructive feedback if
you feel necessary. I also am very open to that
kind of stuff through email as well. If you want
(19:34):
to share something that you liked or something that didn't
sit well, or just some feedback in general, you can
always do that. Always open to it because I always
want to learn and grow, just how the people listening
to this podcast usually are listening because they also want
to learn and grow. So until Wednesday, when I come
back for couch Talks, I hope you guys have the
(19:55):
day you need to have and I will talk to
you soon.
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