“Carson The Magnificent” is the definitive biography of Johnny Carson, the entertainer who redefined late-night television and American culture. Co-Author, Mike Thomas, joins us to share the amazing story of the making of the book and the riveting accounts of Carson’s legendary career and complex personal life.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Previously on Your Morning Show with Michael del Choonho.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The new book is called Carson the Magnificent. It is
a definitive biography of Johnny Carson, the entertainer who redefined
late night television and impacted American culture for over thirty years.
The co author of that book, Mike Thomas, is joining
us and what a thrill it is. And the book
is just terrific.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hey, how are you.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm doing great. I'm a huge, obvious Johnny Carson fan.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Oh great to hear. I'm also a fan of your work.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
You've done bios on Andy Kaufman, Reaches, Philbin, Jay Leno,
Phil Hartman, among others. But this particular project, I don't know.
We almost need a book about the making of the
book because really kind of what the prologue is. Yeah,
there's like two great stories here, what went into making
this book and then the.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Man who lived the life worthy of this book. Yeah, well,
thanks for noticing that. It was kind of an epic
getting into this. It was I, you know, I did
those books that Andy Kaufman, Jay Leno read with Bill
Zamy in the Sinatra book. Actually back in the day
when I was like in my twenties, I was his
research assistant, and then I went off and had a
(01:10):
fifteen year career at the Sun Times and then started
doing books on my own, including Phil Hartman and Second
City Book. And then when this came along, it was
kind of the perfect full circle moment. I mean, you know,
obviously it was horrible that Bill died in twenty twenty three,
but I said, what can I do to honor my
late friend?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And it was finishing finished the book. So yeah, because
you know, anybody can remember that's a function of the mind,
but honoring is a function of the heart. But you know,
let's go through that function with the audience. Explain to
them why this was important to Bill. It starts with
an exclusive interview, right, and then the notes of that
and the audio of that interview, and then a contract
(01:49):
to write a book, and a book that didn't quite
get finished until you decided to finish it. So walk
them through that whole extraordinary story.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
So, you know, Bill had been a Carson fan boy. Really,
I think he would describe himself that way, since he
was in his early teens in South Holland, a suburb
of Chicago, and you know, he would watch Johnny in
the seventies on his little black and white television. You know,
he got it as a birthday gift when he was fifteen.
He would lock himself in the room and not just
(02:17):
be entertained by Johnny, but study Johnny how he did
what he did. And he retained that fascination as his
writing career started blossoming, you know. And once he got
to Rolling Stone in the late eighties early nineties, he
had enough of a profile there to make an ask
(02:38):
of Johnny when Johnny was in his last year of
doing the show in ninety one ninety two, And so
I found the letter that Bill wrote to his editor
and then Joan Winner, the publisher of Rolling Stone, wrote
on Bill's behalf to the Carson camp, asking if Johnny
would sit down for kind of an exit interview with Bill.
He wasn't able to do that because Johnny was inundated,
(03:00):
you know, that last year. But Bill was able to
get backstage, hang out, talk to people, see Johnny do
his thing in and out of makeup, stuff like that,
to write an appreciation for Rolling Stone. It wouldn't be
for another ten years after Johnny retired in ninety two
that Bill would actually get a long sit down with Johnny,
(03:22):
luckily three years before Johnny's passing, luckily three years before
Johnny's passing. But Bill had tried. He had made inroads
little by little by little. He was a very patient guy,
played this, played a long game. He got to know
Johnny's assistance, you know, people who helped him out at
his post retirement offices in Santa Monica. He would pop
in every now and then once in a while Johnny
(03:42):
would be there. And and Bill had also been writing
a lot about Late Night, about Leno, about Letterman, about Kimmel,
about all these guys were part of the Late Night firm.
Ed McMahon he wrote a piece about sidekicks. So he
was very plugged into that world. And I'm sure Johnny
noticed that. And he finally got a has to interview
in two thousand and two over a long lunch in
(04:03):
Santa Monica. So that was the story of Bill's journey
to Johnny.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I remember growing up, and I grew up in Arlington Heights,
a suburb of Chicago, and we would watch two things
I remember from my childhood. One sitting at McDonald's that
was connected to the Burger the Burger Kings shared a
parking lot with McDonald's. McDonald's would be packed, and we
would sit there and eat. I'd look at my father
and I'd point to the one guy eating at Burger
King and going, who eats at Burger King?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And you'd have that same feeling watching the Tonight Show, right,
Who's watching Dick Cavott? You know?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I mean, Johnny was bigger than life. He is still
the greatest. He is still the king of talk even
after his death.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
That's funny. Dick Cavot was Burger King, Yeah, he was
Burger King.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Carson the Magnificent is the book started by Bill's Amy
and then now being finished by Mike Thomas and just
in time. And by the way, I'm so distracted. You
got the Tonight Show curtain behind you.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I just oh, yeah, I figured, you know, why not Johnny?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You know, in the making of this interview and the
making of this book and the book that you would
finish for your mentor or so many things from fame
to divorce, to the death of his son to being
perceived as a private person. I would think one of
the biggest things is Johnny would never take the bait
and do what all the late night host shoot show
(05:14):
hosts are doing now and being political? I mean, there
are so many Where do you begin to tell the
story of the magnificence of Johnny Carson?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Yeah, you know, Johnny was occasionally political, but it was always,
you know, whatever was funny. It was never really a
partisan thing. And it was a lot gentler too.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Back in the day.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Johnny always wanted to retain the widest possible audience and
he did, you know, because part of Carson too, and
I think this is why people still have an emotional
connection to him to this day, is that he put
you to sleep at night. He didn't get you all
wound up. It was this like promise of a new tomorrow.
You know, Johnny's there. He's the last image flickering on
(05:54):
your brain, and that makes such a positive imprint that
lasts for decades and decades.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I'm sorry, I got.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Off the the main idea you were asking, Well, I mean,
just where do you begin to tell his story?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I mean, get the book.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
For all of us that are fans, I get the
PDF of it, so I've already got to read it.
But I'm trying to let you tell the story. I
want them to know if you love Johnny Carson, this
is a unique view of Johnny Carson. You're going to
see some things you've never seen before, and then there
are some things you know about him that can get
more in depth.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
It's yeah, it was quite a man. It was. It
was a life of triumphant tragedy. It was.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
He's a complicated guy, like any good you know, biography
figure is. He had been written about before, but a
lot of what had been written was you.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Know, unfair, a raw deal.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Well, I don't know if yeah, it was, it was
you know, the mean Johnny, the cruel Johnny, the I
I'd like to think this is a much more nuanced
portrait written by a person and building most of the
writing in this who was a true fan who truly
appreciated Carson's art form and it was an art form.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
So you get a lot of that in the book.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
You get a lot of bills, you know, sort of
picking apart Johnny's you know, monologues and everything else, you know,
talking about how he did what he did. But there's
also the more emotional Johnny and the softer side of
Johnny that I had never seen before, especially after his
son dies in nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
When they came up in the final episode, because he
featured him those and all to come back Guard.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
He did feature his son in the final episode, but
also before that when he came back, he did a
five and a half minute eulogy for his son on
the air. And he never saw Johnny emotional like that
on the air, wearing his heart on his sleeve, and
he did that one time. And there's various other scenes
about when his son died that make you realize, Okay,
(07:51):
this wasn't just a cold, robotic person. I mean, he
was a guy who had a depth of emotion.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah. By the way, Mike Thomas is the co author.
He's finishing the job of his mentor and friend, Bill's
Amy and Carson the Magnificent. I encourage you to get
the book everywhere great books are sold.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
You know this.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I remember as a child watching it, and I remember
Johnny's mother and father were in the audience, and you
could see the awkwardness in Johnny discussing his mother. That's
something that comes out in your in Bill's interviews and
in this book. If there is a cold side of
Johnny Carson, it's kind of what he got from mom
(08:32):
and never was able to shake I hate when people
blame their parents for things. At some point at sixty
years old, it's on you. But I don't think Johnny
ever really recovered from the cold upbringing Diddy.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I don't think he did. I mean, even at the
highest point of his fame, she acted unimpressed with what's happened.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
To remember the Jimmy Pearsall story. Are you proud of me?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Right?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I'm just the king and talk.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
I don't know if that's just her way, because she
did altimate. She saved the whole scrap book of his
clips from when he was coming up that they found
in his closet at some point, so obviously she was
proud of him. She just couldn't fully express it. Who
know who knew if that was from her upbringing or
if it was a Nebraska thing. They were very reserved
Midwest people. They didn't wear their hearts on their sleeve,
(09:18):
you know, so it was not a warm and fuzzy household.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Johnny often joked about divorces on the show, but that
was a big part of the disappointment of his life.
I don't think that he took any of those divorces lightly.
I think the first your your opinion would be hurt
the most.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Yeah, I think so too, you know, and it just
but you know, his behavior would pry them apart. He
was you know, stepping out, he was drinking, he was
you know, so he bore a lot of that burden.
And yeah, I mean he was married four times. You know,
it's still married to his last wife. From what I understand,
(09:55):
they weren't you know, in great shape at the end.
But you know, Johnny was not in great shape health wise.
But yeah, he didn't get divorced the fourth time. I
think he told people because he didn't want to be
a four time loser. He just but he had to
get married. There was this I think Sinatra had the
same sort of thing going on where he had to
be with someone and not just a girlfriend. He needed
to be married some you know, is that mentality. I
(10:19):
have seen this before. Some people just need to be
married to have the thrill of cheating. I don't know
if that's it, but it's something bizarre in that close.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, it was. It was bizarre. Mike Thomas is joining us.
Carson the Magnificent, He really was. You know, I was
watching the movie about Saturday Night Live. And you think,
if if Lauren Michaels doesn't take the chance, if that
original cast doesn't pull off the impossible, I mean, what
movies would we have watched in the eighties and nineties,
(10:50):
let alone since then, you know, and beyond, if not
for Saturday Night Live. And then you think of Johnny Carson,
who I don't know if in your research you did it,
but his thesis paper was on comedy and it's brilliant
and no wonder his heroes were Groutcho Marx and Jack Benny.
This guy got the science of comedy and he made
(11:10):
comedians on that show. And without those comedians, you don't
have the sitcoms. Without those comedians, you don't have the movies.
I know, you can make a case without those comedians,
and the whole fight for Johnny to hang on to
Saturday Night you don't get or you do get Saturday
Night Live. There are so many webs to this, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
There are tons?
Speaker 4 (11:27):
I mean, yeah, you could say that, you know, Johnny
really formed comedy in the seventies, eighties, nineties and beyond
as we know it. And yeah, if not for Johnny
wanting more time off and wanting to pull reruns from
Saturdays and put them on a weekday, Like there wouldn't
have been a slot for Saturday Night Live, and so
Lauren Michaels would not have been able to revolutionize comedy
(11:48):
as he did. And Lauren revered Johnny. I mean, there's
in the new Lauren book which is terrific this Carson
has sprinkled all over it. So yeah, they both in
their own ways formed first final minute. I think the
best part of the stories how you finish this book
for your mentor, I really do. But beyond that to
the story itself, what's the lesson of Johnny Carson's life?
What was the one thing you took away when you
(12:08):
hit the end? I think Johnny was a great appreciator
of comedy, a great practitioner of comedy, but he was
far better at comedy than he was at life. And
I don't think that's atypical for a lot of performers.
You know, they pour everything they have into whatever art
(12:29):
form it is. They're the movies, TV, and a lot
of other stuff goes by the wayside.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Sometimes making the right career choices is making all the
wrong life choices, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Sometimes depends.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Maybe that's why it took me till sixty to get
a national show. Tell it. I'll stick with my wife
and kids. Congratulations, Carson the Magnificent. Get it everywhere books,
great books are sold, Mike Thomas, and good job finishing
this for your mentor Bill.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
It's a great story. Thanks Michael. I really appreciate it.
God bless you and your curtain behind you. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I appreciate it, Carson the Magnificent. You can get it
in Amazon books anywhere books are sold. If you love
Johnny Carson, you're going to love this book. And it's
a fair look at the complexity of his life. The divorces,
the death of his son, the fame, the success, the
intimate personal failures, and yes, some of the grudges. Johnny
(13:20):
was big on loyalty. Just ask Joan Rivers or Jay
Leto about that. Great Spotlight interview author Mike Thomas, Carson
the Magnificent.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Miss a little, miss a lot, miss a lot, and
will miss you. It's your Morning show with Michael del Churno.
Previously on Your Morning Show with Michael del Choonho.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The new book is called Carson the Magnificent. It is
a definitive biography of Johnny Carson, the entertainer who redefined
late night television and impacted American culture for over thirty years.
The co author of that book, Mike Thomas, is joining
us and what a thrill it is. And the book
is just terrific.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hey, how are you.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm doing great. I'm a huge, obvious Johnny Carson fan.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Oh great to hear. I'm also a fan of your work.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
You've done bios on Andy Kaufman, Reaches, Philbin, Jay Leno,
Phil Hartman, among others. But this particular project, I don't know.
We almost need a book about the making of the
book because really kind of what the prologue is. Yeah,
there's like two great stories here, what went into making
this book and then the.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Man who lived the life worthy of this book. Yeah, well,
thanks for noticing that. It was kind of an epic
getting into this. It was I, you know, I did
those books that Andy Kaufman, Jay Leno read with Bill
Zamy in the Sinatra book. Actually back in the day
when I was like in my twenties, I was his
research assistant, and then I went off and had a
(01:10):
fifteen year career at the Sun Times and then started
doing books on my own, including Phil Hartman and Second
City Book. And then when this came along, it was
kind of the perfect full circle moment. I mean, you know,
obviously it was horrible that Bill died in twenty twenty three,
but I said, what can I do to honor my
late friend?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And it was finishing finished the book. So yeah, because
you know, anybody can remember that's a function of the mind,
but honoring is a function of the heart. But you know,
let's go through that function with the audience. Explain to
them why this was important to Bill. It starts with
an exclusive interview, right, and then the notes of that
and the audio of that interview, and then a contract
(01:49):
to write a book, and a book that didn't quite
get finished until you decided to finish it. So walk
them through that whole extraordinary story.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
So, you know, Bill had been a Carson fan boy. Really,
I think he would describe himself that way, since he
was in his early teens in South Holland, a suburb
of Chicago, and you know, he would watch Johnny in
the seventies on his little black and white television. You know,
he got it as a birthday gift when he was fifteen.
He would lock himself in the room and not just
(02:17):
be entertained by Johnny, but study Johnny how he did
what he did. And he retained that fascination as his
writing career started blossoming, you know. And once he got
to Rolling Stone in the late eighties early nineties, he
had enough of a profile there to make an ask
(02:38):
of Johnny when Johnny was in his last year of
doing the show in ninety one ninety two, And so
I found the letter that Bill wrote to his editor
and then Joan Winner, the publisher of Rolling Stone, wrote
on Bill's behalf to the Carson camp, asking if Johnny
would sit down for kind of an exit interview with Bill.
He wasn't able to do that because Johnny was inundated,
(03:00):
you know, that last year. But Bill was able to
get backstage, hang out, talk to people, see Johnny do
his thing in and out of makeup, stuff like that,
to write an appreciation for Rolling Stone. It wouldn't be
for another ten years after Johnny retired in ninety two
that Bill would actually get a long sit down with Johnny,
(03:22):
luckily three years before Johnny's passing, luckily three years before
Johnny's passing. But Bill had tried. He had made inroads
little by little by little. He was a very patient guy,
played this, played a long game. He got to know
Johnny's assistance, you know, people who helped him out at
his post retirement offices in Santa Monica. He would pop
in every now and then once in a while Johnny
(03:42):
would be there. And and Bill had also been writing
a lot about Late Night, about Leno, about Letterman, about Kimmel,
about all these guys were part of the Late Night firm.
Ed McMahon he wrote a piece about sidekicks. So he
was very plugged into that world. And I'm sure Johnny
noticed that. And he finally got a has to interview
in two thousand and two over a long lunch in
(04:03):
Santa Monica. So that was the story of Bill's journey
to Johnny.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I remember growing up, and I grew up in Arlington Heights,
a suburb of Chicago, and we would watch two things
I remember from my childhood. One sitting at McDonald's that
was connected to the Burger the Burger Kings shared a
parking lot with McDonald's. McDonald's would be packed, and we
would sit there and eat. I'd look at my father
and I'd point to the one guy eating at Burger
King and going, who eats at Burger King?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And you'd have that same feeling watching the Tonight Show, right,
Who's watching Dick Cavott? You know?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I mean, Johnny was bigger than life. He is still
the greatest. He is still the king of talk even
after his death.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
That's funny. Dick Cavot was Burger King, Yeah, he was
Burger King.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Carson the Magnificent is the book started by Bill's Amy
and then now being finished by Mike Thomas and just
in time. And by the way, I'm so distracted. You
got the Tonight Show curtain behind you.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I just oh, yeah, I figured, you know, why not Johnny?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You know, in the making of this interview and the
making of this book and the book that you would
finish for your mentor or so many things from fame
to divorce, to the death of his son to being
perceived as a private person. I would think one of
the biggest things is Johnny would never take the bait
and do what all the late night host shoot show
(05:14):
hosts are doing now and being political? I mean, there
are so many Where do you begin to tell the
story of the magnificence of Johnny Carson?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Yeah, you know, Johnny was occasionally political, but it was always,
you know, whatever was funny. It was never really a
partisan thing. And it was a lot gentler too.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Back in the day.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Johnny always wanted to retain the widest possible audience and
he did, you know, because part of Carson too, and
I think this is why people still have an emotional
connection to him to this day, is that he put
you to sleep at night. He didn't get you all
wound up. It was this like promise of a new tomorrow.
You know, Johnny's there. He's the last image flickering on
(05:54):
your brain, and that makes such a positive imprint that
lasts for decades and decades.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I'm sorry, I got.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Off the the main idea you were asking, Well, I mean,
just where do you begin to tell his story?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I mean, get the book.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
For all of us that are fans, I get the
PDF of it, so I've already got to read it.
But I'm trying to let you tell the story. I
want them to know if you love Johnny Carson, this
is a unique view of Johnny Carson. You're going to
see some things you've never seen before, and then there
are some things you know about him that can get
more in depth.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
It's yeah, it was quite a man. It was. It
was a life of triumphant tragedy. It was.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
He's a complicated guy, like any good you know, biography
figure is. He had been written about before, but a
lot of what had been written was you.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Know, unfair, a raw deal.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Well, I don't know if yeah, it was, it was
you know, the mean Johnny, the cruel Johnny, the I
I'd like to think this is a much more nuanced
portrait written by a person and building most of the
writing in this who was a true fan who truly
appreciated Carson's art form and it was an art form.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
So you get a lot of that in the book.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
You get a lot of bills, you know, sort of
picking apart Johnny's you know, monologues and everything else, you know,
talking about how he did what he did. But there's
also the more emotional Johnny and the softer side of
Johnny that I had never seen before, especially after his
son dies in nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
When they came up in the final episode, because he
featured him those and all to come back Guard.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
He did feature his son in the final episode, but
also before that when he came back, he did a
five and a half minute eulogy for his son on
the air. And he never saw Johnny emotional like that
on the air, wearing his heart on his sleeve, and
he did that one time. And there's various other scenes
about when his son died that make you realize, Okay,
(07:51):
this wasn't just a cold, robotic person. I mean, he
was a guy who had a depth of emotion.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah. By the way, Mike Thomas is the co author.
He's finishing the job of his mentor and friend, Bill's
Amy and Carson the Magnificent. I encourage you to get
the book everywhere great books are sold.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
You know this.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I remember as a child watching it, and I remember
Johnny's mother and father were in the audience, and you
could see the awkwardness in Johnny discussing his mother. That's
something that comes out in your in Bill's interviews and
in this book. If there is a cold side of
Johnny Carson, it's kind of what he got from mom
(08:32):
and never was able to shake I hate when people
blame their parents for things. At some point at sixty
years old, it's on you. But I don't think Johnny
ever really recovered from the cold upbringing Diddy.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I don't think he did. I mean, even at the
highest point of his fame, she acted unimpressed with what's happened.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
To remember the Jimmy Pearsall story. Are you proud of me?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Right?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I'm just the king and talk.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
I don't know if that's just her way, because she
did altimate. She saved the whole scrap book of his
clips from when he was coming up that they found
in his closet at some point, so obviously she was
proud of him. She just couldn't fully express it. Who
know who knew if that was from her upbringing or
if it was a Nebraska thing. They were very reserved
Midwest people. They didn't wear their hearts on their sleeve,
(09:18):
you know, so it was not a warm and fuzzy household.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Johnny often joked about divorces on the show, but that
was a big part of the disappointment of his life.
I don't think that he took any of those divorces lightly.
I think the first your your opinion would be hurt
the most.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Yeah, I think so too, you know, and it just
but you know, his behavior would pry them apart. He
was you know, stepping out, he was drinking, he was
you know, so he bore a lot of that burden.
And yeah, I mean he was married four times. You know,
it's still married to his last wife. From what I understand,
(09:55):
they weren't you know, in great shape at the end.
But you know, Johnny was not in great shape health wise.
But yeah, he didn't get divorced the fourth time. I
think he told people because he didn't want to be
a four time loser. He just but he had to
get married. There was this I think Sinatra had the
same sort of thing going on where he had to
be with someone and not just a girlfriend. He needed
to be married some you know, is that mentality. I
(10:19):
have seen this before. Some people just need to be
married to have the thrill of cheating. I don't know
if that's it, but it's something bizarre in that close.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, it was. It was bizarre. Mike Thomas is joining us.
Carson the Magnificent, He really was. You know, I was
watching the movie about Saturday Night Live. And you think,
if if Lauren Michaels doesn't take the chance, if that
original cast doesn't pull off the impossible, I mean, what
movies would we have watched in the eighties and nineties,
(10:50):
let alone since then, you know, and beyond, if not
for Saturday Night Live. And then you think of Johnny Carson,
who I don't know if in your research you did it,
but his thesis paper was on comedy and it's brilliant
and no wonder his heroes were Groutcho Marx and Jack Benny.
This guy got the science of comedy and he made
(11:10):
comedians on that show. And without those comedians, you don't
have the sitcoms. Without those comedians, you don't have the movies.
I know, you can make a case without those comedians,
and the whole fight for Johnny to hang on to
Saturday Night you don't get or you do get Saturday
Night Live. There are so many webs to this, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
There are tons?
Speaker 4 (11:27):
I mean, yeah, you could say that, you know, Johnny
really formed comedy in the seventies, eighties, nineties and beyond
as we know it. And yeah, if not for Johnny
wanting more time off and wanting to pull reruns from
Saturdays and put them on a weekday, Like there wouldn't
have been a slot for Saturday Night Live, and so
Lauren Michaels would not have been able to revolutionize comedy
(11:48):
as he did. And Lauren revered Johnny. I mean, there's
in the new Lauren book which is terrific this Carson
has sprinkled all over it. So yeah, they both in
their own ways formed first final minute. I think the
best part of the stories how you finish this book
for your mentor, I really do. But beyond that to
the story itself, what's the lesson of Johnny Carson's life?
What was the one thing you took away when you
(12:08):
hit the end? I think Johnny was a great appreciator
of comedy, a great practitioner of comedy, but he was
far better at comedy than he was at life. And
I don't think that's atypical for a lot of performers.
You know, they pour everything they have into whatever art
(12:29):
form it is. They're the movies, TV, and a lot
of other stuff goes by the wayside.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Sometimes making the right career choices is making all the
wrong life choices, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Sometimes depends.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Maybe that's why it took me till sixty to get
a national show. Tell it. I'll stick with my wife
and kids. Congratulations, Carson the Magnificent. Get it everywhere books,
great books are sold, Mike Thomas, and good job finishing
this for your mentor Bill.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
It's a great story. Thanks Michael. I really appreciate it.
God bless you and your curtain behind you. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I appreciate it, Carson the Magnificent. You can get it
in Amazon books anywhere books are sold. If you love
Johnny Carson, you're going to love this book. And it's
a fair look at the complexity of his life. The divorces,
the death of his son, the fame, the success, the
intimate personal failures, and yes, some of the grudges. Johnny
(13:20):
was big on loyalty. Just ask Joan Rivers or Jay
Leto about that. Great Spotlight interview author Mike Thomas, Carson
the Magnificent.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Miss a little, miss a lot, miss a lot, and
will miss you. It's your Morning show with Michael del Churno.
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