March 13, 2025 • 26 mins
In the time since she became Prime Minister of Barbados in 2018, Mia Mottley has become known as a moral force for action on climate change. The Bridgetown Initiative, which she launched at COP26 in 2021, transformed the conversation around climate finance – pushing rich nations to do more to support developing countries struggling with the impact of climate change. But as the US retreats from climate action, her bold vision faces new challenges. At the Sustainable Energy for All Global Forum in Barbados, she tells Akshat Rathi why she remains optimistic, and she spoke about the role of pragmatism in tackling the climate challenge.
Explore further:
- Past episode with Achim Steiner, head of the United Nations Development Program
- Past episode with Avinash Persaud about the Bridgetown Initiative
- Past episode about the Royal Shakespeare Company’s play about the 1997 Kyoto Summit
Zero is a production of Bloomberg Green. Our producer is Mythili Rao. Special thanks this week to Siobhan Wagner, Kanika Chawla and Jessica Beck. Thoughts or suggestions? Email us at zeropod@bloomberg.net. For more coverage of climate change and solutions, visit https://www.bloomberg.com/green.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to zero. I am Akshatrati this week climate hope
from a sinking island. I'm in sunny Barbados this week
(00:22):
attending the Sustainable Energy for All Global Forum in the
country's capital, Bridgetown. It's my first time here, but I've
long waited to visit, not just for the beaches, though
they are nice, but for a climate reporter like me.
The bigger draw is the Prime Minister of Barbados, Mia Mottley.
(00:44):
She's held the office since twenty eighteen, and in that
time she's come to be known as a singular force
in raising the voice of climate vulnerable countries and in
helping find new solutions for them. She has set ambitious
emissions targets for Barbados, laid out plans to conserve vast
tracks of its oceans, and championed the use of clean power.
(01:06):
But perhaps her most impressive achievement is that she's found
inventive ways to change the conversation on climate finance. For example,
last year, Barbados was able to replace expensive loans by
cheap ones because Motley convinced lenders that it would be
to their benefit. That's because the savings will be put
(01:28):
toward making the country more resilient to climate change and
thus improve the country's financial health in the long run.
Barbados has also successfully negotiated clauses in its loan agreements
that allow it to pause repayments if the country is
hit with an extreme weather event. She's also looked for
creative ways to fund climate adaptation. This week, her administration
(01:51):
released its new budget. It will see a fund for
resilience and regeneration that will be supported by a point
two five percent salary contribution from all workers in Barbados.
Take a listen to something that Raphaele Soul, a lawyer
and business consultant, had to tell me about this fund.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I see it as a way of us showing up
our country's infrastructure, making sure that our systems have the
necessary redundancies, so that of course in the cases of
natural disasters, but generally speaking, as we're building our country
from a development perspective, we're going to be able to
have the safety net. We need to make sure that's
done well.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
As you can hear here in Barbados, climate change isn't
just a side issue. It's the issue, and Motley has
used the learnings from her country to help other vulnerable
countries to deploy these solutions. The Bridgetown Initiative, which she
launched at COP twenty six in twenty twenty one, puts
old and new financial tools to creative use. So when
(02:51):
I had the opportunity to interview Prime Minister Motley on
stage at the Forum this week, I jumped at the chance.
In this episode of Zero, we are bringing you that conversation,
as well as some parts of the speech she delivered
at the Forum.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
The beautiful thing about the game of cricket is that
you learn early that you have to play on the
pitch as it is not as you would like it,
and Barbados has perhaps produced more global cricketers of excellence
(03:40):
per capita than any other part of the world. I
apologize to my brothers in Gernada and Trinidad and elsewhere,
even in India. But in learning that, it learns that
we play on the wicket as it is not as
you would like it, and you don't spend time or
(04:04):
energy crying over what could have been, but we deal
with the world as it is. On the twelfth of
March twenty twenty five, I therefore ask us to use
this opportunity to make the partnerships to perfect the networks
(04:28):
that will help us unlock the financing that is critical.
I also ask us to recognize that as small states,
or as developing states, mimicry does not get us very far.
If we try to establish regulatory structures that are known
(04:54):
to the North Atlantic world, whose systems of development and
whose institutions are completely different, we find ourselves, as my
own country has done regrettably in the last three and
a half years, caught up in regulatory arbitrage that has
done nothing other than to lock off and block off
(05:17):
over half a billion dollars of investment in renewable energy
that is waiting and exploding to be put into action.
And I share this with you because I'm sure that
if we can learn from each other and do not
have to repeat the mistakes of each other, we will
get much further ahead. The reality is that most of
(05:42):
our markets are way too small to command the attention
of even commercial providers, far less to be talking about
the things that are necessary to distort competition or to
avoid corruption. We lose is time, and what we lose
(06:04):
is the benefit of curtailing and increase in temperature globally.
What we lose is an inability to build the resilience
that we need. Our own Energy Transition Investment Plan contemplates
that Barbados will reach net zero by twenty thirty five.
(06:26):
We are committed to that goal, but we equally recognize
and we've had to go to Parliament twice to change
legislation to start to streamline what would otherwise be complex
processes that have already delayed US three and a half years.
(06:49):
So long as we can satisfy ourselves of the public
purpose and be aware of the public mischief, we then
have to find new ways that are appropriate to size
and institutional maturity to be able to help us advance
the execution of these targets that we have set ourselves.
(07:13):
And I believe that if we can create, as I said,
the international platform that can de risk investments, that will
allow for South south cooperation, that will allow for the
creation of guarantees so that we can better access domestic savings,
(07:37):
so that they too can be part and parcel of
the community that benefits from the rewards that would otherwise
be available only to establish capital, that we can create
a win win who shared.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Partnerships after the break More from Barbados and by the way,
if you've been enjoying this episode, please take a moment
to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
It helps other listeners find the show. I'm minister, thank
(08:20):
you for that speech, and thank you especially for making
time during this week when the budget discussions are going on.
I recognize how valuable this time is that you're spending
on at the four. Let me start by the message
you had in your speech about practical and feasible solutions.
One of the things that the Bridgetown Initiative and many
(08:41):
of the projects that you mentioned around dead spots, for
final resilience, for ocean conservation, for having a resilience fund
where employees pay into it here in Barbados, those are practical,
feasible solutions now in the years of effort that you
have put in to try and develop these solutions in
(09:02):
this moment where we are seeing a backlash on climate
policies all around the world, be that in rich countries
like the US where Donald Trump has pulled the US
out of the Barrass Agreement, be that in Europe that
is committed to climate action but is now being forced
to spend heavily on defense and thus shrinking the fiscal
(09:23):
space it has for climate investments. What do you think
are the lessons that you have learned from these solutions
that developing countries should be taking on board right now?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
As I said, I think we have to start at
home first. On Monday, the Minister in the Ministry Finance
delivered the budget speech for our government, and in addition
to employees and self employed persons contributing quarter one percent
of their earnings to a resilience and regeneration fund, we
(10:00):
have now asked employers to match the contributions of the
employees and we've gone further, and I have been inspired
by Germany quite frankly in so doing. Last week the
new Chancellor of Germany made it absolutely clear that whatever
it takes to keep his country stable he will undertake,
(10:21):
and that he would be reviewing the fiscal rules, particularly
with respect to military spending. Our Parliament has now before
it a statement from the Minister in the Ministry of
Finance that we will now commit to add every year,
starting from this year, a quarter of one percent of
(10:42):
GDP in a regeneration and resilience fund, and that we
will amend our fiscal rules to be able to accommodate
that commitment on an annual basis. Because climate is for
us an existential crisis, and we start therefore with what
we can do for ourselves. I've then adverted to what
(11:04):
we can do regionally. We have in this region six
billion US dollars in excess liquidity, excess domestic liquidity. On
its own, it may be difficult to employ, but in
partnership with guarantees, whether from the European Investment Bank or
other entities, all of a sudden that can be leveraged
(11:28):
to be able to secure far more funding than is
currently available now, so that we can finance much of
our own development. I am sure that the same obtains
in Africa, the same obtains in the Pacific, the same
obtains in Latin America. What we have now to explore
is whether the cross border flows south south can also work,
(11:51):
because the rail problems have come north south. In determining
what are the risk and what is the lack of
information that would otherwise preclude us from being able to
have access to affordable interest rates for capital that is
used or pooled, we need to create opportunities for each other,
(12:11):
and I genuinely believe that that is entirely possible. I'm
also not, however, distracted by the fact that the US,
as is their right, has withdrawn from the Paris Agreement.
But at the level of the federal state, as we
keep hearing in the US, there is a clear division
between what they do and what is done at the
(12:32):
level of states and what is done at the level
of municipalities. And I think you will find that a
number of municipalities and a number of states are still
investing their money in green energy, in green bonds, and
therefore there will continue to be a strong financial pool
of funds available for good, credible investments. I make one
(12:56):
last point on mitigation. It doesn't matter where mitigation takes
place in the world, it just needs to take place.
And we need, therefore to find a way of creating
a global fund that can finance the most efficient and
effective mitigation projects, because if we are not going to
(13:19):
have the power of one or two countries behind what
we are doing, then in my own country, there's an
old saying, one one blow is kill old cow. One
one blow is kill old cow. And what it simply
means is that one by one, by one by one,
we can effectively still achieve what we need to achieve
(13:42):
if we were to take the cumulative domestic excess liquidity
of the global South and start to determine how we
can work with strategic partners, whether it is Europe, whether
it is China, whether it is India, whether it is Brazil,
regardless whether it is the Gulf States, we will then
begin to recognize that we have access to a lot
(14:03):
more than we are actually currently aware of.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
One thing that came up in other speeches as well
as yours is the need for financing. And many of
the examples that you have secured here in Barbados have
relied on some amount of support from development banks. We
talked about the importance of guarantees in enabling these solutions
to happen. Now I hear from people who are in
(14:30):
development banks there is a sense of fear that with
the US, which is amongst the largest shareholders in development banks,
that there will be pushback against anything that has labeled
climate as we are seeing already in the legislation in America.
So if development banks are supposed to play such a
crucial role in guaranteeing access to finance for developing countries
(14:53):
toward climate resilience, how do you go about getting that
finance development banks don't play the role that they have
played for Barbados.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Well, the first thing is that they must stop letting
fear be a paralyzing emotion, because if they do that,
then they'll realize that they can use the capital that
they have and they can work together with others in
guarantees to leverage it to be able to unlock far
more than it would otherwise unlock. At this point in time,
I remain, as I said, optimistic, because I believe that
(15:26):
we have not really scratched the surface between what we have.
The problem is is that we're also trying to secure
what we know we will need down the line. But
sometimes you have to stop a start with what you
have where you are, while building up the capacity to
achieve what you need three five, seven, ten years from now.
(15:47):
And that sense of ultimate pragmatism and the blinkered approach
that does not cause you to spend your energy and
emotion in fear but actually causes you to be able
to and lot what you have is what I think
is required in this moment. I also think that let
us be real, the United States is driven not just
(16:09):
by presidential directives. Or governor's directives or congressional directives is
driven by commerce, and there are companies that are going
to find that they will be outside of the opportunities
with respect to the procurement that must take place for
(16:29):
the green energy transition. Every single export import bank in
the world has some kind of domestic interests by ensuring
that their suppliers of products and services benefit from any
concessional funding that is given. That's not going to change
overnight in the US, so I am prepared to wait
(16:52):
for the medium to long game and to recognize that
those persons who are going to be left out of
the equation will soon find a ward as to how
to get back in on the issue of the green
energy transition. And let us be also very clear, the
United States has been an engine of scientific and engineering
(17:12):
innovation and therefore I expect that those people will also
not want to be left out of what is the
most important scientific and engineering innovation that is necessary globally.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
One more question around politics around the world, not just
in the US, is that we have seen in election
after election that there is issues beyond climate action that
are the focus for people. So cost of living crisis, inflation,
where people think they are paying too much or aren't
getting a good deal from government. But as you've done
(17:47):
with the Resilience and Regeneration Fund, where you have contributions
coming from employees into the fund, how do you make
that case? How can other developing countries make that case
to their people that climate action is in their economic
interest so that they can win elections and act on
this problem.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Human beings know that they can't only live for what
is necessary today, but they're building towards the future. The
reason we educate children is not that we expect them
to get all the knowledge in one year. It's a
process and it's no different in this respect. Similarly, we
all know and there's the old adage that I use
(18:29):
repeatedly with my people here, many hands make like work.
And if we don't recognize that all of us have
a role to play, then we are not being truthful
nor faithful to our people. The reality continues every person,
(18:50):
through their actions and through their contributions financially, however small,
however large, have a role to play in confronting is
really a crisis of humanity because the planet on which
we live, the only livable planet that we know, is
in fact at risk now. I don't even want to
(19:13):
say luckily, but the truth is that the last five
years have shown us enough climate disasters globally where ordinary
people have either lost their lives or livelihoods that anyone
who is thinking will realize that this is not just
(19:33):
a coincidence or a quirk of nature, and that we
are in a pathway that will in fact put all
of us at risk. We used to say in the
Caribbean all the time, Simon would tell you that we
are the canaries in the mind. Regrettably, those who were
watching on now know that this is not a joke
or this is not a problem for SIDS somewhere elsewhere.
(19:59):
The majority of the North Atlantic countries, and indeed the
emerging market economies China, India, Brazil all have coastal communities
and coastal cities that are going to be significantly put
at risk. In Africa, when you fly over and you
see the big brung swath of land that is inhospitable
(20:26):
to development and farming, you then begin to better appreciate
why there may be issues of insecurity permeating the continent
if people can't guarantee to their citizens simple things like
making a living, like being able to farm, like being
able to access water, like being able to withstand the drought.
(20:49):
So I am very very clear that in the same
way we tell our children what is good for them
and how to be able to prepare themselves, to grow up,
how to manage risk. They learn not to touch fire
from early, they learn how to cross a road, they
learn how to do basic things. Why are we frightened
for having these conversations with our population when in truth
(21:12):
and in fact, it is their actions and their contributions
that will help us scale up to make the difference.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I want to ask you two small questions. One is
that as you've heard people around the world wait to
hear what you have to say. I've been to cop
meetings and when there's a list of people who are
going to speak, everybody rushes to hear Prime Minister Motley speak.
The reason is twofold one. You bring moral leadership and
you bring feasible solutions. We talked about the feasible solutions,
(21:42):
but the moral leadership at this time matters more than ever.
You've talked about how the Caribbean needs to be seen
and heard when there are such loud voices around wars,
around economic distress, around trade wars happening around the world.
How do you keep the moral leadership a focus in
this conversation.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
By remaining resolute and saying what you believe and what
you stand for. Look, I just gave you the example
of methane. The fact that others will find potentially an
opportunity for cooperation in controlling methane by stopping the flaring
of gas and by fixing gas pipes does not cause
(22:26):
me to change my fundamental beliefs as to why I'm
asking them to do it. So that we don't change
who we are, but we find opportunities for collaboration and
partnership where there exists, and then where there continues to
be divide, we continue the conversation to see how best
we can work together to bridge the divide.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
And the last question, You've been warning for many years
that the world today looks a lot like a century ago. True,
that it's imperial, that there was in nineteen eighteen pandemic
that killed tens of millions, that it followed a great depression,
then it followed a world war, and the horrors that
came from the Nazi regen in the twenty first century.
(23:12):
We've had a pandemic, We've had financial crisis. There are
wars now in Africa, in the Middle East, in Europe.
And to add to all that, we have climate change
that we didn't have one hundred years ago. So one
thing I know everybody here would like to hear, how
do you make a case for hope today?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Hope is a human condition that's necessary for me to
take my next step. And I don't think that we
should ever believe that hope is impossible because our current
reality is difficult. If that were the case, my brother
President Bio would not be here today talking to me,
because slavery would have insisted that we don't exist anywhere
(23:59):
in this country. So I want to remind people that
hope is a condition that we choose, and we choose
it irrespective of whether our difficulties are great or small.
If we remember that, then we will also remember that
(24:21):
resilience is what buttresses and gives hope its best chance,
which is why we are working in the way in
which we are working. So I truly believe that you
have to choose hope. And if people choose hope as
was as it was chosen by generations before who face
even greater personal turbulence, even if not planetary crisis. Then
(24:47):
I think we shall make the journey.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Thank you very much, thank you, thank you for listening
to Zero and now for the sound of the week.
(25:16):
Even the frogs and Barbados are nice. They don't croak
but whistle. If you like this episode, please take a
moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts
and Spotify. Share this episode with a friend or with
someone who loves beaches. You can get in touch at
Zero pod at Bloomberg dot net. Zero's producer is Miight Lira.
Bloomberg's Head of podcast is Sage Bauman, and head of
(25:38):
Talk is Brendan newnam Our. Theme music is composed by
Wonderly Special. Thanks to Kanika Chawla and Sherry Kennedy at
Sustainable Energy for All, and to Shawan Wagner and Jessica
beck I am Akshra Drati Back soon.
Welcome to zero. I am Akshatrati this week climate hope
from a sinking island. I'm in sunny Barbados this week
(00:22):
attending the Sustainable Energy for All Global Forum in the
country's capital, Bridgetown. It's my first time here, but I've
long waited to visit, not just for the beaches, though
they are nice, but for a climate reporter like me.
The bigger draw is the Prime Minister of Barbados, Mia Mottley.
(00:44):
She's held the office since twenty eighteen, and in that
time she's come to be known as a singular force
in raising the voice of climate vulnerable countries and in
helping find new solutions for them. She has set ambitious
emissions targets for Barbados, laid out plans to conserve vast
tracks of its oceans, and championed the use of clean power.
(01:06):
But perhaps her most impressive achievement is that she's found
inventive ways to change the conversation on climate finance. For example,
last year, Barbados was able to replace expensive loans by
cheap ones because Motley convinced lenders that it would be
to their benefit. That's because the savings will be put
(01:28):
toward making the country more resilient to climate change and
thus improve the country's financial health in the long run.
Barbados has also successfully negotiated clauses in its loan agreements
that allow it to pause repayments if the country is
hit with an extreme weather event. She's also looked for
creative ways to fund climate adaptation. This week, her administration
(01:51):
released its new budget. It will see a fund for
resilience and regeneration that will be supported by a point
two five percent salary contribution from all workers in Barbados.
Take a listen to something that Raphaele Soul, a lawyer
and business consultant, had to tell me about this fund.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I see it as a way of us showing up
our country's infrastructure, making sure that our systems have the
necessary redundancies, so that of course in the cases of
natural disasters, but generally speaking, as we're building our country
from a development perspective, we're going to be able to
have the safety net. We need to make sure that's
done well.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
As you can hear here in Barbados, climate change isn't
just a side issue. It's the issue, and Motley has
used the learnings from her country to help other vulnerable
countries to deploy these solutions. The Bridgetown Initiative, which she
launched at COP twenty six in twenty twenty one, puts
old and new financial tools to creative use. So when
(02:51):
I had the opportunity to interview Prime Minister Motley on
stage at the Forum this week, I jumped at the chance.
In this episode of Zero, we are bringing you that conversation,
as well as some parts of the speech she delivered
at the Forum.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
The beautiful thing about the game of cricket is that
you learn early that you have to play on the
pitch as it is not as you would like it,
and Barbados has perhaps produced more global cricketers of excellence
(03:40):
per capita than any other part of the world. I
apologize to my brothers in Gernada and Trinidad and elsewhere,
even in India. But in learning that, it learns that
we play on the wicket as it is not as
you would like it, and you don't spend time or
(04:04):
energy crying over what could have been, but we deal
with the world as it is. On the twelfth of
March twenty twenty five, I therefore ask us to use
this opportunity to make the partnerships to perfect the networks
(04:28):
that will help us unlock the financing that is critical.
I also ask us to recognize that as small states,
or as developing states, mimicry does not get us very far.
If we try to establish regulatory structures that are known
(04:54):
to the North Atlantic world, whose systems of development and
whose institutions are completely different, we find ourselves, as my
own country has done regrettably in the last three and
a half years, caught up in regulatory arbitrage that has
done nothing other than to lock off and block off
(05:17):
over half a billion dollars of investment in renewable energy
that is waiting and exploding to be put into action.
And I share this with you because I'm sure that
if we can learn from each other and do not
have to repeat the mistakes of each other, we will
get much further ahead. The reality is that most of
(05:42):
our markets are way too small to command the attention
of even commercial providers, far less to be talking about
the things that are necessary to distort competition or to
avoid corruption. We lose is time, and what we lose
(06:04):
is the benefit of curtailing and increase in temperature globally.
What we lose is an inability to build the resilience
that we need. Our own Energy Transition Investment Plan contemplates
that Barbados will reach net zero by twenty thirty five.
(06:26):
We are committed to that goal, but we equally recognize
and we've had to go to Parliament twice to change
legislation to start to streamline what would otherwise be complex
processes that have already delayed US three and a half years.
(06:49):
So long as we can satisfy ourselves of the public
purpose and be aware of the public mischief, we then
have to find new ways that are appropriate to size
and institutional maturity to be able to help us advance
the execution of these targets that we have set ourselves.
(07:13):
And I believe that if we can create, as I said,
the international platform that can de risk investments, that will
allow for South south cooperation, that will allow for the
creation of guarantees so that we can better access domestic savings,
(07:37):
so that they too can be part and parcel of
the community that benefits from the rewards that would otherwise
be available only to establish capital, that we can create
a win win who shared.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Partnerships after the break More from Barbados and by the way,
if you've been enjoying this episode, please take a moment
to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
It helps other listeners find the show. I'm minister, thank
(08:20):
you for that speech, and thank you especially for making
time during this week when the budget discussions are going on.
I recognize how valuable this time is that you're spending
on at the four. Let me start by the message
you had in your speech about practical and feasible solutions.
One of the things that the Bridgetown Initiative and many
(08:41):
of the projects that you mentioned around dead spots, for
final resilience, for ocean conservation, for having a resilience fund
where employees pay into it here in Barbados, those are practical,
feasible solutions now in the years of effort that you
have put in to try and develop these solutions in
(09:02):
this moment where we are seeing a backlash on climate
policies all around the world, be that in rich countries
like the US where Donald Trump has pulled the US
out of the Barrass Agreement, be that in Europe that
is committed to climate action but is now being forced
to spend heavily on defense and thus shrinking the fiscal
(09:23):
space it has for climate investments. What do you think
are the lessons that you have learned from these solutions
that developing countries should be taking on board right now?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
As I said, I think we have to start at
home first. On Monday, the Minister in the Ministry Finance
delivered the budget speech for our government, and in addition
to employees and self employed persons contributing quarter one percent
of their earnings to a resilience and regeneration fund, we
(10:00):
have now asked employers to match the contributions of the
employees and we've gone further, and I have been inspired
by Germany quite frankly in so doing. Last week the
new Chancellor of Germany made it absolutely clear that whatever
it takes to keep his country stable he will undertake,
(10:21):
and that he would be reviewing the fiscal rules, particularly
with respect to military spending. Our Parliament has now before
it a statement from the Minister in the Ministry of
Finance that we will now commit to add every year,
starting from this year, a quarter of one percent of
(10:42):
GDP in a regeneration and resilience fund, and that we
will amend our fiscal rules to be able to accommodate
that commitment on an annual basis. Because climate is for
us an existential crisis, and we start therefore with what
we can do for ourselves. I've then adverted to what
(11:04):
we can do regionally. We have in this region six
billion US dollars in excess liquidity, excess domestic liquidity. On
its own, it may be difficult to employ, but in
partnership with guarantees, whether from the European Investment Bank or
other entities, all of a sudden that can be leveraged
(11:28):
to be able to secure far more funding than is
currently available now, so that we can finance much of
our own development. I am sure that the same obtains
in Africa, the same obtains in the Pacific, the same
obtains in Latin America. What we have now to explore
is whether the cross border flows south south can also work,
(11:51):
because the rail problems have come north south. In determining
what are the risk and what is the lack of
information that would otherwise preclude us from being able to
have access to affordable interest rates for capital that is
used or pooled, we need to create opportunities for each other,
(12:11):
and I genuinely believe that that is entirely possible. I'm
also not, however, distracted by the fact that the US,
as is their right, has withdrawn from the Paris Agreement.
But at the level of the federal state, as we
keep hearing in the US, there is a clear division
between what they do and what is done at the
(12:32):
level of states and what is done at the level
of municipalities. And I think you will find that a
number of municipalities and a number of states are still
investing their money in green energy, in green bonds, and
therefore there will continue to be a strong financial pool
of funds available for good, credible investments. I make one
(12:56):
last point on mitigation. It doesn't matter where mitigation takes
place in the world, it just needs to take place.
And we need, therefore to find a way of creating
a global fund that can finance the most efficient and
effective mitigation projects, because if we are not going to
(13:19):
have the power of one or two countries behind what
we are doing, then in my own country, there's an
old saying, one one blow is kill old cow. One
one blow is kill old cow. And what it simply
means is that one by one, by one by one,
we can effectively still achieve what we need to achieve
(13:42):
if we were to take the cumulative domestic excess liquidity
of the global South and start to determine how we
can work with strategic partners, whether it is Europe, whether
it is China, whether it is India, whether it is Brazil,
regardless whether it is the Gulf States, we will then
begin to recognize that we have access to a lot
(14:03):
more than we are actually currently aware of.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
One thing that came up in other speeches as well
as yours is the need for financing. And many of
the examples that you have secured here in Barbados have
relied on some amount of support from development banks. We
talked about the importance of guarantees in enabling these solutions
to happen. Now I hear from people who are in
(14:30):
development banks there is a sense of fear that with
the US, which is amongst the largest shareholders in development banks,
that there will be pushback against anything that has labeled
climate as we are seeing already in the legislation in America.
So if development banks are supposed to play such a
crucial role in guaranteeing access to finance for developing countries
(14:53):
toward climate resilience, how do you go about getting that
finance development banks don't play the role that they have
played for Barbados.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Well, the first thing is that they must stop letting
fear be a paralyzing emotion, because if they do that,
then they'll realize that they can use the capital that
they have and they can work together with others in
guarantees to leverage it to be able to unlock far
more than it would otherwise unlock. At this point in time,
I remain, as I said, optimistic, because I believe that
(15:26):
we have not really scratched the surface between what we have.
The problem is is that we're also trying to secure
what we know we will need down the line. But
sometimes you have to stop a start with what you
have where you are, while building up the capacity to
achieve what you need three five, seven, ten years from now.
(15:47):
And that sense of ultimate pragmatism and the blinkered approach
that does not cause you to spend your energy and
emotion in fear but actually causes you to be able
to and lot what you have is what I think
is required in this moment. I also think that let
us be real, the United States is driven not just
(16:09):
by presidential directives. Or governor's directives or congressional directives is
driven by commerce, and there are companies that are going
to find that they will be outside of the opportunities
with respect to the procurement that must take place for
(16:29):
the green energy transition. Every single export import bank in
the world has some kind of domestic interests by ensuring
that their suppliers of products and services benefit from any
concessional funding that is given. That's not going to change
overnight in the US, so I am prepared to wait
(16:52):
for the medium to long game and to recognize that
those persons who are going to be left out of
the equation will soon find a ward as to how
to get back in on the issue of the green
energy transition. And let us be also very clear, the
United States has been an engine of scientific and engineering
(17:12):
innovation and therefore I expect that those people will also
not want to be left out of what is the
most important scientific and engineering innovation that is necessary globally.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
One more question around politics around the world, not just
in the US, is that we have seen in election
after election that there is issues beyond climate action that
are the focus for people. So cost of living crisis, inflation,
where people think they are paying too much or aren't
getting a good deal from government. But as you've done
(17:47):
with the Resilience and Regeneration Fund, where you have contributions
coming from employees into the fund, how do you make
that case? How can other developing countries make that case
to their people that climate action is in their economic
interest so that they can win elections and act on
this problem.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Human beings know that they can't only live for what
is necessary today, but they're building towards the future. The
reason we educate children is not that we expect them
to get all the knowledge in one year. It's a
process and it's no different in this respect. Similarly, we
all know and there's the old adage that I use
(18:29):
repeatedly with my people here, many hands make like work.
And if we don't recognize that all of us have
a role to play, then we are not being truthful
nor faithful to our people. The reality continues every person,
(18:50):
through their actions and through their contributions financially, however small,
however large, have a role to play in confronting is
really a crisis of humanity because the planet on which
we live, the only livable planet that we know, is
in fact at risk now. I don't even want to
(19:13):
say luckily, but the truth is that the last five
years have shown us enough climate disasters globally where ordinary
people have either lost their lives or livelihoods that anyone
who is thinking will realize that this is not just
(19:33):
a coincidence or a quirk of nature, and that we
are in a pathway that will in fact put all
of us at risk. We used to say in the
Caribbean all the time, Simon would tell you that we
are the canaries in the mind. Regrettably, those who were
watching on now know that this is not a joke
or this is not a problem for SIDS somewhere elsewhere.
(19:59):
The majority of the North Atlantic countries, and indeed the
emerging market economies China, India, Brazil all have coastal communities
and coastal cities that are going to be significantly put
at risk. In Africa, when you fly over and you
see the big brung swath of land that is inhospitable
(20:26):
to development and farming, you then begin to better appreciate
why there may be issues of insecurity permeating the continent
if people can't guarantee to their citizens simple things like
making a living, like being able to farm, like being
able to access water, like being able to withstand the drought.
(20:49):
So I am very very clear that in the same
way we tell our children what is good for them
and how to be able to prepare themselves, to grow up,
how to manage risk. They learn not to touch fire
from early, they learn how to cross a road, they
learn how to do basic things. Why are we frightened
for having these conversations with our population when in truth
(21:12):
and in fact, it is their actions and their contributions
that will help us scale up to make the difference.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I want to ask you two small questions. One is
that as you've heard people around the world wait to
hear what you have to say. I've been to cop
meetings and when there's a list of people who are
going to speak, everybody rushes to hear Prime Minister Motley speak.
The reason is twofold one. You bring moral leadership and
you bring feasible solutions. We talked about the feasible solutions,
(21:42):
but the moral leadership at this time matters more than ever.
You've talked about how the Caribbean needs to be seen
and heard when there are such loud voices around wars,
around economic distress, around trade wars happening around the world.
How do you keep the moral leadership a focus in
this conversation.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
By remaining resolute and saying what you believe and what
you stand for. Look, I just gave you the example
of methane. The fact that others will find potentially an
opportunity for cooperation in controlling methane by stopping the flaring
of gas and by fixing gas pipes does not cause
(22:26):
me to change my fundamental beliefs as to why I'm
asking them to do it. So that we don't change
who we are, but we find opportunities for collaboration and
partnership where there exists, and then where there continues to
be divide, we continue the conversation to see how best
we can work together to bridge the divide.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
And the last question, You've been warning for many years
that the world today looks a lot like a century ago. True,
that it's imperial, that there was in nineteen eighteen pandemic
that killed tens of millions, that it followed a great depression,
then it followed a world war, and the horrors that
came from the Nazi regen in the twenty first century.
(23:12):
We've had a pandemic, We've had financial crisis. There are
wars now in Africa, in the Middle East, in Europe.
And to add to all that, we have climate change
that we didn't have one hundred years ago. So one
thing I know everybody here would like to hear, how
do you make a case for hope today?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Hope is a human condition that's necessary for me to
take my next step. And I don't think that we
should ever believe that hope is impossible because our current
reality is difficult. If that were the case, my brother
President Bio would not be here today talking to me,
because slavery would have insisted that we don't exist anywhere
(23:59):
in this country. So I want to remind people that
hope is a condition that we choose, and we choose
it irrespective of whether our difficulties are great or small.
If we remember that, then we will also remember that
(24:21):
resilience is what buttresses and gives hope its best chance,
which is why we are working in the way in
which we are working. So I truly believe that you
have to choose hope. And if people choose hope as
was as it was chosen by generations before who face
even greater personal turbulence, even if not planetary crisis. Then
(24:47):
I think we shall make the journey.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Thank you very much, thank you, thank you for listening
to Zero and now for the sound of the week.
(25:16):
Even the frogs and Barbados are nice. They don't croak
but whistle. If you like this episode, please take a
moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts
and Spotify. Share this episode with a friend or with
someone who loves beaches. You can get in touch at
Zero pod at Bloomberg dot net. Zero's producer is Miight Lira.
Bloomberg's Head of podcast is Sage Bauman, and head of
(25:38):
Talk is Brendan newnam Our. Theme music is composed by
Wonderly Special. Thanks to Kanika Chawla and Sherry Kennedy at
Sustainable Energy for All, and to Shawan Wagner and Jessica
beck I am Akshra Drati Back soon.
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