Podcast Title: 5.02.25 CRU with Nancy Grace: Stabbed 20 Times: Ellen Greenberg’s Case, a Changed Ruling, and Sean Combs Rejected Plea
Today, Nancy Grace and Sheryl McCollum expose what they call one of the most disturbing miscarriages of justice in recent memory. Nancy details the tragic case of Ellen Greenberg, a young teacher found with 20 stab wounds, including 10 in her back; yet authorities labeled her death a suicide.The duo calls for the medical examiner to come forward following the pressure to change the opinion. Nancy and Sheryl discuss the parental lawsuits, alleged manipulation of medical findings, and secret meetings involving state officials. Last but not least, Nancy and Sheryl give the latest on the Sean Combs, a.k.a Diddy case. Following a rejected plea, they break down what trial stands to look like starting May 5th, 2025.
Nancy’s book: What Happened to Ellen?: An American Miscarriage of Justice is available now. All proceeds will go to National Center Missing Exploited Children - NCMC
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome! Nancy and Sheryl introduce this week’s crime roundup
- (0:10) Latest in the courts
- (0:30) The Ellen Greenberg case
- (4:00) Nancy breaks down the legal injustice in the Ellen Greenberg case
- (4:45) The role of the medical examiner
- (6:00) Writing the book - twice, to gain awareness in Ellen’s case
- (7:30) Public awareness and media advocacy
- (11:00) The secret meeting and immunity
- (13:00) Medical examiner reverses ruling in Ellen Greenberg’s death
- (14:00) The New England serial killer
- (17:30) “Swans don’t swim in sewers.”
- (19:00) FOIA challenges
- (21:00) Sean Combs a.k.a Diddy rejects the plea deal
- (23:30) Sean Combs trial starts May 5th,2025
- (25:30) Predictions of the trial start
- (27:00) “C’s get degrees.”
- (27:30) Final thoughts
---
Nancy Grace is an outspoken, tireless advocate for victims’ rights and one of television's most respected legal analysts. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor. She is the founder and publisher of CrimeOnline.com, a crime- fighting digital platform that investigates breaking crime news, spreads awareness of missing people and shines a light on cold cases.
In addition, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a daily show hosted by Grace, airs on SIRIUS XM’s Triumph Channel 111 and is downloadable as a podcast on all audio platforms - https://www.crimeonline.com/
Connect with Nancy:
X: @nancygrace
Instagram: @thenancygrace
Facebook: @nancygrace
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice.&
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum and
I'm joined by the one and only Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Morning, Donnie, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
You know what, prid Mary, keep on rolling. I'm telling you.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
It quite a week in America's courts. I'm telling you
all across the trenchy, Cheryl, I mean this week. First
of all, I'm going gangbusters on the book What Happened
to Ellen, and trying so hard to bring awareness to
her story.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It's gonna it's gonna take a miracle. I'll never put
it to the parents this way, but it's going to
take a miracle to get that case reopened because after
everything that's hold on, let me hit my tee, after
everything that's happened, you know, it took the parents suing,
I believe this, sue Philadelphia and Pennsylvania to find out
(01:07):
why the medical examiner changed the ruling. The girl, Owen beautiful,
stabbed twenty times, ten of those in the back, severing
her spinal cord dura, and they called it suicide. Okay,
So they fought and they fought and they thought, and
I know they are just bone tired. And you know,
(01:29):
I figured out what bone tired means it means you
were tired in your bones, that your bones are just aching.
They are bone tired, weary with fighting the fight. I
was trying so hard to help him. So they sue.
They sue the state and the city, and just before
(01:52):
the medical examiner, Marlon Osborn has to take the stand,
and you know, he first ruled a holisime. Then there
was a secret meeting with District Attorney rep and some
Philly cops and he says in a deposition, they pressured
me to change my ruling, and I attach it in
(02:14):
the back of the book. I've never seen anything so wrong.
He changes his really to suicide, which means there can
never be, you know, a prosecution of anybody. And they
assume just as he's about to take the stand, because
of their lawsuit, they settle, which means that we never
(02:35):
find out what happened in the meeting. So the case
is being quote sent back to the District Attorney's office
to analyze it, which means nothing, nothing is happening. I mean,
I've done shows on it, there have been online petitions
about it. I've now written a book for free about it,
(02:59):
and I don't you know, I feel like, I just
got to like this light a stick of dynamite and
lob it into the dasafs to get them to do
something that's right.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And when I first saw the cover of your book,
what happened to Ellen the most just in your face
statement is the next thing under that where you say
an American miscarriage of justice, And that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
And Cheryl, like, I always say We've got the greatest
system in the world because I believe that. I mean,
after my fance says murder, I became the system. I
became law enforcements. And it hurts me. I mean, it's
not just a miscarriage of justice. It's a like a
kick in the teeth that everything I fought for and
(03:51):
stood for and believed in has failed these parents and
they are so good, they're just And I think about
my mom and dad. I think about Keith's mom and
dad living through such a horrible thing, and I'm just trying.
I'm just trying, and I keep saying it over and
(04:12):
over all proceeds are going to National Center Missing Exploited Children,
but I'm just you know, I'm not sure. I'm going
to think on it. What else I can do. I
don't know what else I can do, but I'm going
to think on it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Well, here's the most important thing. That family's not fighting
alone anymore. They've got you. And you know something you
said a minute ago. I tell hugging Caroline all the
time that if I had been assigned any other prosecutor,
my whole career can be different. You were always above board, ethical,
(04:48):
full steam.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Ahead, honey.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And when I hear you say that the medical examiner
was pressured to change his opinion, let me tell you
something about you. I remember having great conversations, not really
debates about any of it, but just maybe there's another side,
maybe there's a devil's advocate, whatever. Nobody was going to
change your opinion. You had facts, you went with those facts.
(05:16):
You let the law and evidence guide you always. And
so to me, for the medical examiner to say that
anybody could pressure him is a horrific state of affairs.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
It's terrible.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And he said it under oath. I attached it the
deposition to the back of the back of the book.
And you know what, I have a certain degree of awe.
I mean, I know that they're smarter than everybody in
the room. Certainly including me. I would never dream of
asking a medical examiner to change their opinion unless I
(05:54):
saw some glaring issue. And I mean this just you know,
help me, Cheryl. I'm just so tired of screaming, seemingly
into the wind, how wrong this is. And do you
know what Benay and I went through writing that book.
This is one thing that happened. Okay, So we wrote
(06:16):
the book and she's the fact checker. You know. She
got all the documents and I read them literally word
for word. She read them word for word. We put
it all together, wrote the book by you know, typing
it on my how old is that laptop? Last night
at malfunction, I was trying to pull up Lucy's Eagle
(06:38):
Scout application. I finally just said, you know what, and
I'm taking on one of the geek squad. I can't
do this, Okay. I was on that old thing, which
I love, and I refuse to get a knee one though. Okay,
I don't know what that means. But we sent it
for all the editsy hat picked up. They edited, they
(07:02):
took the wrong manuscript. I had to re do the
whole thing. Oh no, yes, it took me literally days,
days and days to go word for word what I
had written in it, just so you.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Not only wrote this book for free once you wrote
it twice for foe.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Oh lord lord, and you know, just trying to make
a difference. You know, I did it to try and
bring awareness to the case because I felt like nothing
was going to happen. And I will say that after
we did the special on Faxination and after I kept
doing it over and over and over and over on
(07:41):
Crime Stories, I think that did have an effect. And
it's it's not me. People always say, oh, you won
these cases, Like I didn't win those cases. The jury
saw the facts. The guy did it. Number one, It's
not some miracle. He did it, all right. I didn't,
you know, do a magic trick. He did it and
(08:03):
they saw he did it. Same thing here. Just me
being in the right place at the right time gave
those parents, Josh and Sandy, a chance to speak out
on national TV, to speak out on Doctor Phil, to
speak out on Serious XM and Crime Stories podcast, all
that everything that you're a part of with me, that
(08:27):
it gave them that platform. And I think people I thought,
that's at this point, people have got to see Josh
and Sandy and hear their story and hear the truth.
I don't know how anybody can turn away from this,
you know. It's just like people thank you and I
are on some crazy revenged here that we just want
somebody to go to jail. The thought that an innocent
(08:48):
person is behind bars wasting their life away with that
would just send me over the edge. I just I
couldn't take it. Same thing here. I think about them,
Josh and Sandy, and I'm like, I just can't take
what they're going They wake up every morning, make their
coffee and think what f is? Why? I can't wait?
(09:12):
Why is this happening to us? It just mut's speak brutal.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
And I'll tell you right now the part that I
think I would just have to start burning stuff down
is the secret meeting, because again, how in the world
is any of this a secret? How is what happened
to my child kept from me? How is what y'all
are in that room discussing, planning and plotting and scheming
kept from me?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
You know? And the thing is, how does a female
district any distric attorney? I just say female because I
know I happen to know it was a woman, which
reduces g Who could it have been? How does she
get immediity? What happened in that meeting that requires her
to get immunity from prosecution? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
You and I've never had to ask for immunity on
a case. No, and it should never be a secret.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Never.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
When I went to court TV, and of course I
got involved in the cameras in the courtroom crusade, I
remember a phrase came out, the best detergent at sunshine,
open windows, open doors, letting the world into the courtroom
and into the proceedings. No secret proceedings, that's what that means.
(10:30):
I did a lot of research about cameras in the courtroom,
and I found that the founding fathers, actually, you know,
it's called constitutional excuse me, congressional minutes. What was being
said as they debated what would be in the constitution,
(10:51):
and what they wanted was courtrooms big enough for the
whole community to come in and see what was happening.
And that is so right and so true. I don't
know the thought that there was a secret meaning, like
(11:11):
you're saying, it's just really upsetting to me. It is
horrible it must be to the parents.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
And you know to your point, why do you think
every courthouse is writ in the center of.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Town exactly on the town square, on the.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Town square literally and figuratively, it's the center, and it
should be no doubt about it. And you know, I
also think about that medical examiner. And John David, your
son and Huck my son were both goalies, different sports,
but goalies. And I know Huck used to get so
aggravated if he let a shot get passing, and I
(11:46):
used to have to remind him in order for anybody
to even take a shot on you. Everybody else on
that field failed. And that's how I feel about this.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Times have I stood in the stands, and of course
the other knights myself, where's your hat? I'm like, I
ran out the door without it. It's a beanie hat
with a bright light in the front of it. It's
for like hiking in the dark or being in the
snow that I wear to every soccer game, no matter
how hot it may be outside. So John davy Kuluk
(12:20):
in the in the stands and see me how many
time those have I stood in those stands with that
beanie hat, all with a light shining The fly flies
like a beam going protect the goal, can protect the goal,
so it won't all be on John David to protect
(12:40):
the goal. But he's got all these guys running at him.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Protecting the goal. Yes, I wants the goal, every one
of you. And that's how I feel. This medical examiner
is the goalie. But he has got to come out
and be very vocal.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
He has to. He should be posting his original note.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Don't he's hiding. He's drove off with his tail between
his legs.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
If he would come forward and say these are my
original notes, because those original notes, how he got to
homicide matters.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
You know he's going to say no, but yes, I'll try.
I'll track him down. He's hiding somewhere in Florida.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
How could a beautiful, young first grade teacher be stabbed
twenty times, including in the bat allegedly die of suicide? Yes,
that was a medical examiner's official ruling after a closed
door meeting. He first named it a homicide. Why what
Happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
For an in depth look at the facts, see What
Happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the National
Center for Missing and exploited chill Ldren.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
New England serial killer. Why do they always say there's
not a serial killer? You know what, maybe there's not,
but maybe there is. And we had on a the
only woman to have survived the Connecticut River serial killer,
(14:23):
and she is just furious, upset her. I'm not quite
sure how to describe it that in this case with
the New England serial the alleged New England serial killer,
that all the agencies are saying there's not a serial killer,
is not a serial killer?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
They always say that, Yeah, And you know when you
hear her story, and she has such a chilling story,
you can see the dots that should be connected for people.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I would, by the way, that guy's still walking free.
The Connecticut River Valley killer. That's a mouthful. Connecticut River
Valley killer. I my booker. I'm telling you they bookers.
They are so great. Holding in Lao. You know, Lao
has been with me since we started h l N.
(15:18):
You know that that's been a long time. She's just amazing.
And another issue is if you don't have a cause
of death on these on the victims. Now, I understand
that the BodyCount may have gone up if you don't
have a cod then how can you say there's not
(15:39):
a serial killer because you don't know the modus operandi.
What if they're all killed in the same way. One
issue is the disposal disposal method Some are similar, some
are different, but you know, look at always this is
a great example. Ted Bundy's method of operation changed so much.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Sure Wayne Williams body disposal train.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Oh talk about that. That's a great one. I need
to use that one as an example because everybody's trying
to hear about Ted Bundy.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Sure, well, Wayne Williams had children that he disposed openly
in the woods. He had children that he disposed in
abandoned buildings. And then the last thing wants somebody leaked
the fiber evidence he started to dispose them in the river.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
You know, there is a Facebook grip called the New
England s k New England serial Killer and you know,
a lot of it is wild speculation. But I think
every single theory needs to be followed up. And yes,
that's a huge task, but that's why we have police.
(16:47):
That's why we have law enforcement, that's why we have prosecutors.
That's what they're getting paid for. I remember actually trumping
through a housing project ain't. Now. That's when I quit
carrying a purse. I'd stuff everything I could in my
bro and walk with my hands free, because you just
never know what is going to happen. My investigator said, man,
(17:14):
why are we doing this? Oh? By the way, it
was that Ernest. He was out and had somebody else
with me that day. Ernest would never have said that,
why are we trump at through this place? I'm like,
and I said, well, number one, to find a witness.
And number two, man, you're getting paid to That's why
they pay you. Not everybody wants to tromp through a
(17:36):
housing project, they pay you to do it. That's why
you get money for it. Keep walking.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
And that's when you gave the greatest advice ever when
you said, why do you think we're here?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Swans? Don't swim in a sewer.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
You're never going to get tired of saying that. Hey
are you are you getting ready for crime con? By
the way, hey, have you bought my book?
Speaker 6 (18:00):
No?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I think I'm just going to give you another one.
Go online right now. It will not kill you to
spend twenty dollars.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Go listen.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I want everybody to do it, because again, not only
is it a fantastic book that you need to read
so you can be just as angry as we are
because this does not need to happen. But also, every
single dime goes to the National Center of Missing and
Exploited Children. It's an amazing, amazing thing you're doing.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Just what.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I even bought one. I bought my own book. I
bought a copy of my own book to donate to Nickma.
I mean that's crazy talk, right, I mean, I know
what it says.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
That bought my own book because I mean I want
to support the whole cause. And there's a woman that
I see a lot who has started an online petition.
I'm talking about Ellen Greenbery again, an online petition.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Do they work? I don't know, but I know if
you don't sign it, it definitely won't work. If you
do sign it, it might work. If you don't don't
sign it, you know, we'll.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Never know attack from all sides. I have a question
for you, miss Attorney, about Ellen. They say the case
is done.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Right, it's over. They're not doing anything with it.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
If that's the case and there's no investigation going, why
can't through the Freedom of Information Act? Can we not
get everything regarding the autopsy including his notes.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Well, you're absolutely right, but that's not exactly what they said.
It's now under quote reexamination. And by saying that, by
saying it's under re examination, they keep it secret. If
it were closed, they couldn't say it's an ongoing investigation.
(20:05):
They couldn't do that. See, they're claiming it's being re
evaluated and therefore they're exempt from handing over the files.
Do you know that Ellen's parents had to pay and
have to pay for documents and photos they wouldn't give
them to the parents. They really I don't know why
(20:26):
have these parents been singled out this way? Okay, so
what do you think about the nest? You England serial killer?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
I think that when you have that body count, you
work it as a serial killer, just like if you
have a dead body, you work it as a homicide.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
To you know different.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You don't walk in and go, oh, suicide, and work
it as a suicide, because then that's what you're going
to see. You cannot have this amount of just carnage
without saying, you know what, let's connect these things.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
We're are just looking. I feel like that's irresponsible to
just flight out say there's not I mean they should say,
while we at first bluss do not believe that there
is a serial killer, we are looking and then they
should look at similarities. No conversation is going to be
(21:18):
complete for today without mention of Dare I say his name?
I might conjure up?
Speaker 8 (21:27):
Oh gosh, I know what you can say it say it.
He did not completely deal Sean Comes. I don't call
him Diddy, just like I don't call Simpson o J.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
We're not on a first name basis. That's right. Seawan
Comes rejects the plea deal. Blah blah blah, blah blah.
I'm telling you you remember Judge Joseaphine Comes, Josephine Holmes
Cook's son, Joseph Thane was murdered by her own son,
That ungrateful piece of rap and against what I would
(22:04):
have advised. But then da not my idea that I
worked for Lewis Layton. Paul Howard offered a deal. Are
you kidding me? He murders a sitting judge in your
courthouse and you offer a deal. Oh oh no, no,
(22:27):
in no, okay. But anyway, Paul Howard offered a deal,
and the idiot didn't take the deal. I think is
maul Ma told, you're just like they're telling Brian Coburg
or his mom's.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Like, you're in a set. Okay, same thing here.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Some it just said, don't take the deal. Didty was yep,
you can about that, giving you memoirs when you're doing
life behind bars? Yes, right, Combs just yesterday, yesterday, Now
it was in the world of rejection, was in the works,
but he formally rejected the state's deal to quote spare
(23:17):
himself the possibility of a prolonged prison sentence translation insure
himself the possibility of a prolonged prison sentence. So it's
supposed to go to trial Cinco de Mayo, and I
am fighting every impulse to put like a big picture,
you know, photoshop a big picture Margarita's behind him. But
(23:38):
I'm not going to do it because that would be wrong. Okay,
we wrong, don't do that. Okay. Anyway, that's going to
try a on Monday. Okay, how do you think it's
going to start.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I think they are going to come out guns blazing.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I think the first thing you're going to hear is
some facts we have not heard previously.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's what I think they're going to do.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
How fast are they going to show a frea GoF
that's what you know. When are they going to show
the pre goff tapes? They got to lay the foundation.
Let's explain. When I say lay a foundation, I just
can't like reach into my bag of evidence and pull
out a video and just start playing it. You have
(24:20):
to lay a legal foundation for every item that you
introduce in evidence, whether it's a fingerprint or a DNA match,
a document, a murder weapon, you have to lay the
foundation like with a murder weapon. Let me direct attention.
(24:42):
Let me direct Cheryl mccom's attention to state's exhibit. Ay,
mss McCollum, do you recognize this answer?
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
What is it? It's the gun I retrieved from the
scene of the crime. When did you find it? May fifteenth?
Where did you find it under the body of the victim? No,
that wouldn't work because that sounds more like beside the victim. Okay,
then you show it to the defense. Then I can
(25:12):
approach the bench with the evidence and then you identify it,
you remark it, then you asked for it to be
admitted into evidence, and you name it by number States
Exhibit number one. I move into evidence, and then the
judge will say any objection, and the defense would go, yes,
(25:32):
that's not there or something like that, and then it's
admitted into evidence. That's lugging a foundation. And for these
tapes of Freakoff tape, they'll have to show where did
it come from, who found it, who took it from.
Let's just pretend Diddy's mansion that was rated, and then
(25:52):
what happened to it, who's had their hands on it?
And then you have to say, is there any evidence
at all it has been tampered with in any way? No, okay,
move into evidence. Any objection. There's going to be a
lot of objections, a lot of objections to the freak
Off tapes. But you know, bottom line, does the tape
(26:12):
depict is that a fair and accurate representation of what
occurred that evening? That's the big question. That's how you
lay a foundation.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Is all that was absolutely perfect and in order.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Unless you're Nancy Grace, There's one part you left out,
and that is when you take the murder weapon and
show it to the jury and walk as slow as
you can so they can all see it.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
It never ends, does it? It just never Let me just
say I I want to can't get off with a
freak off tape.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Oh see, that would be good, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I think they're going to take some quotes from those tapes,
and that's the first thing out of their mouth.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
That's what I would say. I would I would find.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
The most rebolting discuss quote, and that's the first thing
I would say.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
You know, I wonder sometimes why you didn't go to
law school. It'd be such a great lawyer.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
And so wait their children, Well, I think one might
be contemplating doing that.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
We'll see.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Oh let me get out of my write and pee then,
so I could start working on a recommendation. First, I
got to get my own in.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Okay, I got you.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
You know what Lucy Lynch did the other day? No,
she made a C on a test.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I don't believe that.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
I think she thought I was gonna fuss at her.
I didn't because I remember one time, believe it or not,
Ms Goody two shoes made an fis in frank on
a what was it had to be math test? And
my mother had just gotten over from work as like
six point thirty seven, and she was I was sitting
(27:48):
in our old house and making it. Walk in to
the kitchen and there was a bar in the divide
in the kitchen and the den, and there was a
place where you could see through the bar and on
top of the bar her cabinets. She was there. She
came straight in. She did not even leave the kitchen,
started cooking dinner. Aunt. I just said, Mom, I have
(28:11):
to tell you something, and she said what. She's on
the other side of the bar and I was sitting
there and she was making something. Don't you know? She
was tired cool, And I showed her, showed I couldn't
even bring myself to say the f I showed it
to her and she just looked at She didn't say anything.
(28:35):
She didn't get mad. Not that I just said, my mom,
I'm want to fix it. I mean I did fix it.
And it was my senior year. I thought, if I
make after this class, I mean, I graduate. Talk about
fear and I had all a's anyway, fear, fear, fear
a great motivator. Anyway, she never fussed at me. Ever,
(28:57):
isn't that something I did exit and graduated? But that said, no,
I didn't. If I said, Lucy, do you know those
children have made all a's since pre k pree k.
I guess when you get an A and finger painting
pre k all the way through. They are in the
eleventh grade. John David has never made anything but a.
(29:21):
Lucy's made a couple of b's, but they I don't
know how I got so blessed. You know, they come home,
they do that. What if I had a wild child?
Oh my stars? Oh lordy lord listen.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I was confused when you said Lucy made a C
because my nature reaction is, whoam congratulations? I'm just running
off my own background. But you tell Lucy d's make degrees? Baby,
I actually said.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
C's get degrees because she made a C. It's not
her grade.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Just on one asked Cheryl, listen, listen, she'll be to night.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Compare your report card to my baby girl, my perfect chime.
Oh my star, she is so pretty.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
No, she is perfect. She is perfect.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Listen, beautiful, smart, athletic, funny, kind, and Brillian is really shy.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
She's really shy, unlike the mayor of Funvill, John David.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Listen, speaking of Funville.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
We are at the police department being audited, so I
do I do have to go.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
And try to make sure the evidence room is up
to bar. But I love this.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
This you dumpy me h, you double all in. Oh
my goodness, I like to walk. I've gotta go. Bye.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Love you, I Love you.
Welcome to the Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum and
I'm joined by the one and only Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Morning, Donnie, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
You know what, prid Mary, keep on rolling. I'm telling you.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
It quite a week in America's courts. I'm telling you
all across the trenchy, Cheryl, I mean this week. First
of all, I'm going gangbusters on the book What Happened
to Ellen, and trying so hard to bring awareness to
her story.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It's gonna it's gonna take a miracle. I'll never put
it to the parents this way, but it's going to
take a miracle to get that case reopened because after
everything that's hold on, let me hit my tee, after
everything that's happened, you know, it took the parents suing,
I believe this, sue Philadelphia and Pennsylvania to find out
(01:07):
why the medical examiner changed the ruling. The girl, Owen beautiful,
stabbed twenty times, ten of those in the back, severing
her spinal cord dura, and they called it suicide. Okay,
So they fought and they fought and they thought, and
I know they are just bone tired. And you know,
(01:29):
I figured out what bone tired means it means you
were tired in your bones, that your bones are just aching.
They are bone tired, weary with fighting the fight. I
was trying so hard to help him. So they sue.
They sue the state and the city, and just before
(01:52):
the medical examiner, Marlon Osborn has to take the stand,
and you know, he first ruled a holisime. Then there
was a secret meeting with District Attorney rep and some
Philly cops and he says in a deposition, they pressured
me to change my ruling, and I attach it in
(02:14):
the back of the book. I've never seen anything so wrong.
He changes his really to suicide, which means there can
never be, you know, a prosecution of anybody. And they
assume just as he's about to take the stand, because
of their lawsuit, they settle, which means that we never
(02:35):
find out what happened in the meeting. So the case
is being quote sent back to the District Attorney's office
to analyze it, which means nothing, nothing is happening. I mean,
I've done shows on it, there have been online petitions
about it. I've now written a book for free about it,
(02:59):
and I don't you know, I feel like, I just
got to like this light a stick of dynamite and
lob it into the dasafs to get them to do
something that's right.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And when I first saw the cover of your book,
what happened to Ellen the most just in your face
statement is the next thing under that where you say
an American miscarriage of justice, And that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
And Cheryl, like, I always say We've got the greatest
system in the world because I believe that. I mean,
after my fance says murder, I became the system. I
became law enforcements. And it hurts me. I mean, it's
not just a miscarriage of justice. It's a like a
kick in the teeth that everything I fought for and
(03:51):
stood for and believed in has failed these parents and
they are so good, they're just And I think about
my mom and dad. I think about Keith's mom and
dad living through such a horrible thing, and I'm just trying.
I'm just trying, and I keep saying it over and
(04:12):
over all proceeds are going to National Center Missing Exploited Children,
but I'm just you know, I'm not sure. I'm going
to think on it. What else I can do. I
don't know what else I can do, but I'm going
to think on it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Well, here's the most important thing. That family's not fighting
alone anymore. They've got you. And you know something you
said a minute ago. I tell hugging Caroline all the
time that if I had been assigned any other prosecutor,
my whole career can be different. You were always above board, ethical,
(04:48):
full steam.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Ahead, honey.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And when I hear you say that the medical examiner
was pressured to change his opinion, let me tell you
something about you. I remember having great conversations, not really
debates about any of it, but just maybe there's another side,
maybe there's a devil's advocate, whatever. Nobody was going to
change your opinion. You had facts, you went with those facts.
(05:16):
You let the law and evidence guide you always. And
so to me, for the medical examiner to say that
anybody could pressure him is a horrific state of affairs.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
It's terrible.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And he said it under oath. I attached it the
deposition to the back of the back of the book.
And you know what, I have a certain degree of awe.
I mean, I know that they're smarter than everybody in
the room. Certainly including me. I would never dream of
asking a medical examiner to change their opinion unless I
(05:54):
saw some glaring issue. And I mean this just you know,
help me, Cheryl. I'm just so tired of screaming, seemingly
into the wind, how wrong this is. And do you
know what Benay and I went through writing that book.
This is one thing that happened. Okay, So we wrote
(06:16):
the book and she's the fact checker. You know. She
got all the documents and I read them literally word
for word. She read them word for word. We put
it all together, wrote the book by you know, typing
it on my how old is that laptop? Last night
at malfunction, I was trying to pull up Lucy's Eagle
(06:38):
Scout application. I finally just said, you know what, and
I'm taking on one of the geek squad. I can't
do this, Okay. I was on that old thing, which
I love, and I refuse to get a knee one though. Okay,
I don't know what that means. But we sent it
for all the editsy hat picked up. They edited, they
(07:02):
took the wrong manuscript. I had to re do the
whole thing. Oh no, yes, it took me literally days,
days and days to go word for word what I
had written in it, just so you.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Not only wrote this book for free once you wrote
it twice for foe.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Oh lord lord, and you know, just trying to make
a difference. You know, I did it to try and
bring awareness to the case because I felt like nothing
was going to happen. And I will say that after
we did the special on Faxination and after I kept
doing it over and over and over and over on
(07:41):
Crime Stories, I think that did have an effect. And
it's it's not me. People always say, oh, you won
these cases, Like I didn't win those cases. The jury
saw the facts. The guy did it. Number one, It's
not some miracle. He did it, all right. I didn't,
you know, do a magic trick. He did it and
(08:03):
they saw he did it. Same thing here. Just me
being in the right place at the right time gave
those parents, Josh and Sandy, a chance to speak out
on national TV, to speak out on Doctor Phil, to
speak out on Serious XM and Crime Stories podcast, all
that everything that you're a part of with me, that
(08:27):
it gave them that platform. And I think people I thought,
that's at this point, people have got to see Josh
and Sandy and hear their story and hear the truth.
I don't know how anybody can turn away from this,
you know. It's just like people thank you and I
are on some crazy revenged here that we just want
somebody to go to jail. The thought that an innocent
(08:48):
person is behind bars wasting their life away with that
would just send me over the edge. I just I
couldn't take it. Same thing here. I think about them,
Josh and Sandy, and I'm like, I just can't take
what they're going They wake up every morning, make their
coffee and think what f is? Why? I can't wait?
(09:12):
Why is this happening to us? It just mut's speak brutal.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
And I'll tell you right now the part that I
think I would just have to start burning stuff down
is the secret meeting, because again, how in the world
is any of this a secret? How is what happened
to my child kept from me? How is what y'all
are in that room discussing, planning and plotting and scheming
kept from me?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
You know? And the thing is, how does a female
district any distric attorney? I just say female because I
know I happen to know it was a woman, which
reduces g Who could it have been? How does she
get immediity? What happened in that meeting that requires her
to get immunity from prosecution? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
You and I've never had to ask for immunity on
a case. No, and it should never be a secret.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Never.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
When I went to court TV, and of course I
got involved in the cameras in the courtroom crusade, I
remember a phrase came out, the best detergent at sunshine,
open windows, open doors, letting the world into the courtroom
and into the proceedings. No secret proceedings, that's what that means.
(10:30):
I did a lot of research about cameras in the courtroom,
and I found that the founding fathers, actually, you know,
it's called constitutional excuse me, congressional minutes. What was being
said as they debated what would be in the constitution,
(10:51):
and what they wanted was courtrooms big enough for the
whole community to come in and see what was happening.
And that is so right and so true. I don't
know the thought that there was a secret meaning, like
(11:11):
you're saying, it's just really upsetting to me. It is
horrible it must be to the parents.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
And you know to your point, why do you think
every courthouse is writ in the center of.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Town exactly on the town square, on the.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Town square literally and figuratively, it's the center, and it
should be no doubt about it. And you know, I
also think about that medical examiner. And John David, your
son and Huck my son were both goalies, different sports,
but goalies. And I know Huck used to get so
aggravated if he let a shot get passing, and I
(11:46):
used to have to remind him in order for anybody
to even take a shot on you. Everybody else on
that field failed. And that's how I feel about this.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Times have I stood in the stands, and of course
the other knights myself, where's your hat? I'm like, I
ran out the door without it. It's a beanie hat
with a bright light in the front of it. It's
for like hiking in the dark or being in the
snow that I wear to every soccer game, no matter
how hot it may be outside. So John davy Kuluk
(12:20):
in the in the stands and see me how many
time those have I stood in those stands with that
beanie hat, all with a light shining The fly flies
like a beam going protect the goal, can protect the goal,
so it won't all be on John David to protect
(12:40):
the goal. But he's got all these guys running at him.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Protecting the goal. Yes, I wants the goal, every one
of you. And that's how I feel. This medical examiner
is the goalie. But he has got to come out
and be very vocal.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
He has to. He should be posting his original note.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Don't he's hiding. He's drove off with his tail between
his legs.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
If he would come forward and say these are my
original notes, because those original notes, how he got to
homicide matters.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
You know he's going to say no, but yes, I'll try.
I'll track him down. He's hiding somewhere in Florida.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
How could a beautiful, young first grade teacher be stabbed
twenty times, including in the bat allegedly die of suicide? Yes,
that was a medical examiner's official ruling after a closed
door meeting. He first named it a homicide. Why what
Happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
For an in depth look at the facts, see What
Happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the National
Center for Missing and exploited chill Ldren.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
New England serial killer. Why do they always say there's
not a serial killer? You know what, maybe there's not,
but maybe there is. And we had on a the
only woman to have survived the Connecticut River serial killer,
(14:23):
and she is just furious, upset her. I'm not quite
sure how to describe it that in this case with
the New England serial the alleged New England serial killer,
that all the agencies are saying there's not a serial killer,
is not a serial killer?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
They always say that, Yeah, And you know when you
hear her story, and she has such a chilling story,
you can see the dots that should be connected for people.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I would, by the way, that guy's still walking free.
The Connecticut River Valley killer. That's a mouthful. Connecticut River
Valley killer. I my booker. I'm telling you they bookers.
They are so great. Holding in Lao. You know, Lao
has been with me since we started h l N.
(15:18):
You know that that's been a long time. She's just amazing.
And another issue is if you don't have a cause
of death on these on the victims. Now, I understand
that the BodyCount may have gone up if you don't
have a cod then how can you say there's not
(15:39):
a serial killer because you don't know the modus operandi.
What if they're all killed in the same way. One
issue is the disposal disposal method Some are similar, some
are different, but you know, look at always this is
a great example. Ted Bundy's method of operation changed so much.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Sure Wayne Williams body disposal train.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Oh talk about that. That's a great one. I need
to use that one as an example because everybody's trying
to hear about Ted Bundy.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Sure, well, Wayne Williams had children that he disposed openly
in the woods. He had children that he disposed in
abandoned buildings. And then the last thing wants somebody leaked
the fiber evidence he started to dispose them in the river.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
You know, there is a Facebook grip called the New
England s k New England serial Killer and you know,
a lot of it is wild speculation. But I think
every single theory needs to be followed up. And yes,
that's a huge task, but that's why we have police.
(16:47):
That's why we have law enforcement, that's why we have prosecutors.
That's what they're getting paid for. I remember actually trumping
through a housing project ain't. Now. That's when I quit
carrying a purse. I'd stuff everything I could in my
bro and walk with my hands free, because you just
never know what is going to happen. My investigator said, man,
(17:14):
why are we doing this? Oh? By the way, it
was that Ernest. He was out and had somebody else
with me that day. Ernest would never have said that,
why are we trump at through this place? I'm like,
and I said, well, number one, to find a witness.
And number two, man, you're getting paid to That's why
they pay you. Not everybody wants to tromp through a
(17:36):
housing project, they pay you to do it. That's why
you get money for it. Keep walking.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
And that's when you gave the greatest advice ever when
you said, why do you think we're here?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Swans? Don't swim in a sewer.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
You're never going to get tired of saying that. Hey
are you are you getting ready for crime con? By
the way, hey, have you bought my book?
Speaker 6 (18:00):
No?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I think I'm just going to give you another one.
Go online right now. It will not kill you to
spend twenty dollars.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Go listen.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I want everybody to do it, because again, not only
is it a fantastic book that you need to read
so you can be just as angry as we are
because this does not need to happen. But also, every
single dime goes to the National Center of Missing and
Exploited Children. It's an amazing, amazing thing you're doing.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Just what.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I even bought one. I bought my own book. I
bought a copy of my own book to donate to Nickma.
I mean that's crazy talk, right, I mean, I know
what it says.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
That bought my own book because I mean I want
to support the whole cause. And there's a woman that
I see a lot who has started an online petition.
I'm talking about Ellen Greenbery again, an online petition.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Do they work? I don't know, but I know if
you don't sign it, it definitely won't work. If you
do sign it, it might work. If you don't don't
sign it, you know, we'll.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Never know attack from all sides. I have a question
for you, miss Attorney, about Ellen. They say the case
is done.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Right, it's over. They're not doing anything with it.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
If that's the case and there's no investigation going, why
can't through the Freedom of Information Act? Can we not
get everything regarding the autopsy including his notes.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Well, you're absolutely right, but that's not exactly what they said.
It's now under quote reexamination. And by saying that, by
saying it's under re examination, they keep it secret. If
it were closed, they couldn't say it's an ongoing investigation.
(20:05):
They couldn't do that. See, they're claiming it's being re
evaluated and therefore they're exempt from handing over the files.
Do you know that Ellen's parents had to pay and
have to pay for documents and photos they wouldn't give
them to the parents. They really I don't know why
(20:26):
have these parents been singled out this way? Okay, so
what do you think about the nest? You England serial killer?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
I think that when you have that body count, you
work it as a serial killer, just like if you
have a dead body, you work it as a homicide.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
To you know different.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You don't walk in and go, oh, suicide, and work
it as a suicide, because then that's what you're going
to see. You cannot have this amount of just carnage
without saying, you know what, let's connect these things.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
We're are just looking. I feel like that's irresponsible to
just flight out say there's not I mean they should say,
while we at first bluss do not believe that there
is a serial killer, we are looking and then they
should look at similarities. No conversation is going to be
(21:18):
complete for today without mention of Dare I say his name?
I might conjure up?
Speaker 8 (21:27):
Oh gosh, I know what you can say it say it.
He did not completely deal Sean Comes. I don't call
him Diddy, just like I don't call Simpson o J.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
We're not on a first name basis. That's right. Seawan
Comes rejects the plea deal. Blah blah blah, blah blah.
I'm telling you you remember Judge Joseaphine Comes, Josephine Holmes
Cook's son, Joseph Thane was murdered by her own son,
That ungrateful piece of rap and against what I would
(22:04):
have advised. But then da not my idea that I
worked for Lewis Layton. Paul Howard offered a deal. Are
you kidding me? He murders a sitting judge in your
courthouse and you offer a deal. Oh oh no, no,
(22:27):
in no, okay. But anyway, Paul Howard offered a deal,
and the idiot didn't take the deal. I think is
maul Ma told, you're just like they're telling Brian Coburg
or his mom's.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Like, you're in a set. Okay, same thing here.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Some it just said, don't take the deal. Didty was yep,
you can about that, giving you memoirs when you're doing
life behind bars? Yes, right, Combs just yesterday, yesterday, Now
it was in the world of rejection, was in the works,
but he formally rejected the state's deal to quote spare
(23:17):
himself the possibility of a prolonged prison sentence translation insure
himself the possibility of a prolonged prison sentence. So it's
supposed to go to trial Cinco de Mayo, and I
am fighting every impulse to put like a big picture,
you know, photoshop a big picture Margarita's behind him. But
(23:38):
I'm not going to do it because that would be wrong. Okay,
we wrong, don't do that. Okay. Anyway, that's going to
try a on Monday. Okay, how do you think it's
going to start.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I think they are going to come out guns blazing.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I think the first thing you're going to hear is
some facts we have not heard previously.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's what I think they're going to do.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
How fast are they going to show a frea GoF
that's what you know. When are they going to show
the pre goff tapes? They got to lay the foundation.
Let's explain. When I say lay a foundation, I just
can't like reach into my bag of evidence and pull
out a video and just start playing it. You have
(24:20):
to lay a legal foundation for every item that you
introduce in evidence, whether it's a fingerprint or a DNA match,
a document, a murder weapon, you have to lay the
foundation like with a murder weapon. Let me direct attention.
(24:42):
Let me direct Cheryl mccom's attention to state's exhibit. Ay,
mss McCollum, do you recognize this answer?
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
What is it? It's the gun I retrieved from the
scene of the crime. When did you find it? May fifteenth?
Where did you find it under the body of the victim? No,
that wouldn't work because that sounds more like beside the victim. Okay,
then you show it to the defense. Then I can
(25:12):
approach the bench with the evidence and then you identify it,
you remark it, then you asked for it to be
admitted into evidence, and you name it by number States
Exhibit number one. I move into evidence, and then the
judge will say any objection, and the defense would go, yes,
(25:32):
that's not there or something like that, and then it's
admitted into evidence. That's lugging a foundation. And for these
tapes of Freakoff tape, they'll have to show where did
it come from, who found it, who took it from.
Let's just pretend Diddy's mansion that was rated, and then
(25:52):
what happened to it, who's had their hands on it?
And then you have to say, is there any evidence
at all it has been tampered with in any way? No, okay,
move into evidence. Any objection. There's going to be a
lot of objections, a lot of objections to the freak
Off tapes. But you know, bottom line, does the tape
(26:12):
depict is that a fair and accurate representation of what
occurred that evening? That's the big question. That's how you
lay a foundation.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Is all that was absolutely perfect and in order.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Unless you're Nancy Grace, There's one part you left out,
and that is when you take the murder weapon and
show it to the jury and walk as slow as
you can so they can all see it.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
It never ends, does it? It just never Let me just
say I I want to can't get off with a
freak off tape.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Oh see, that would be good, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I think they're going to take some quotes from those tapes,
and that's the first thing out of their mouth.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
That's what I would say. I would I would find.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
The most rebolting discuss quote, and that's the first thing
I would say.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
You know, I wonder sometimes why you didn't go to
law school. It'd be such a great lawyer.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
And so wait their children, Well, I think one might
be contemplating doing that.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
We'll see.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Oh let me get out of my write and pee then,
so I could start working on a recommendation. First, I
got to get my own in.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Okay, I got you.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
You know what Lucy Lynch did the other day? No,
she made a C on a test.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I don't believe that.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
I think she thought I was gonna fuss at her.
I didn't because I remember one time, believe it or not,
Ms Goody two shoes made an fis in frank on
a what was it had to be math test? And
my mother had just gotten over from work as like
six point thirty seven, and she was I was sitting
(27:48):
in our old house and making it. Walk in to
the kitchen and there was a bar in the divide
in the kitchen and the den, and there was a
place where you could see through the bar and on
top of the bar her cabinets. She was there. She
came straight in. She did not even leave the kitchen,
started cooking dinner. Aunt. I just said, Mom, I have
(28:11):
to tell you something, and she said what. She's on
the other side of the bar and I was sitting
there and she was making something. Don't you know? She
was tired cool, And I showed her, showed I couldn't
even bring myself to say the f I showed it
to her and she just looked at She didn't say anything.
(28:35):
She didn't get mad. Not that I just said, my mom,
I'm want to fix it. I mean I did fix it.
And it was my senior year. I thought, if I
make after this class, I mean, I graduate. Talk about
fear and I had all a's anyway, fear, fear, fear
a great motivator. Anyway, she never fussed at me. Ever,
(28:57):
isn't that something I did exit and graduated? But that said, no,
I didn't. If I said, Lucy, do you know those
children have made all a's since pre k pree k.
I guess when you get an A and finger painting
pre k all the way through. They are in the
eleventh grade. John David has never made anything but a.
(29:21):
Lucy's made a couple of b's, but they I don't
know how I got so blessed. You know, they come home,
they do that. What if I had a wild child?
Oh my stars? Oh lordy lord listen.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I was confused when you said Lucy made a C
because my nature reaction is, whoam congratulations? I'm just running
off my own background. But you tell Lucy d's make degrees? Baby,
I actually said.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
C's get degrees because she made a C. It's not
her grade.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Just on one asked Cheryl, listen, listen, she'll be to night.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Compare your report card to my baby girl, my perfect chime.
Oh my star, she is so pretty.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
No, she is perfect. She is perfect.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Listen, beautiful, smart, athletic, funny, kind, and Brillian is really shy.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
She's really shy, unlike the mayor of Funvill, John David.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Listen, speaking of Funville.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
We are at the police department being audited, so I
do I do have to go.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
And try to make sure the evidence room is up
to bar. But I love this.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
This you dumpy me h, you double all in. Oh
my goodness, I like to walk. I've gotta go. Bye.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Love you, I Love you.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!