November 28, 2025 • 31 mins
Just when you think it’s safe to step back into the courtroom, another week proves otherwise. On this episode of Crime Roundup, Sheryl McCollum and Joshua Schiffer dig into the newly released Karen Read transcripts that reveal what really happened behind the bench, the face-tattooed suspect raising eyebrows in the Celeste Rivas investigation, and a cruise ship death now under federal review. Together, they take on the week’s most unsettling cases the only way they know how: with sharp insight, hard facts, and a measured dose of humor.
Highlights:
• (0:00) Welcome to Crime Roundup with Sheryl McCollum and Joshua Schiffer
• (1:15) Karen Read updates: prosecution releases sidebar transcripts and what they reveal
• (4:45) The reality of “bench conferences” and how they shape public perception of justice
• (6:00) When prosecutors overcharge: discretion, burden of proof, and why it matters
• (9:15) “Creep Factor” cases and the week’s most unsettling stories, featuring an update
in the Celeste Rivas investigation
• (17:15) Cultural assumptions and the hidden bias in courtroom decision-making
• (21:30) Death penalty leverage, coerced confessions, and systemic pressure
• (22:45) Cruise ship tragedy: an 18-year-old cheerleader found dead under a bed, and what investigators know so far
• (27:45) Ripple effects: trauma across families, classmates, and communities
• (28:15) Finding gratitude in chaos: Joshua’s ATV story and the beauty in everyday moments
About the Hosts
Joshua Schiffer is a veteran trial attorney and one of the Southeast’s most respected legal voices. He is a founding partner at ChancoSchiffer P.C., where he has litigated high-stakes criminal, civil rights, and personal injury cases for over two decades. Known for his bold courtroom presence and ability to clearly explain complex legal issues, Schiffer is a frequent media contributor and a fearless advocate for accountability.
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an active crime scene investigator for a Metro Atlanta Police Department and the director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, which partners with colleges and universities nationwide. With more than 4 decades of experience, she has worked on thousands of cold cases using her investigative system, The Last 24/361, which integrates evidence, media, and advanced forensic testing. Her work on high-profile cases, including The Boston Strangler, Natalie Holloway, Tupac Shakur and the Moore’s Ford Bridge lynching, earned her an Emmy Award for CSI: Atlanta and induction into the National Law Enforcement Hall of Fame in 2023.
Preorder Sheryl’s upcoming book, Swans Don’t Swim in a Sewer: Lessons in Life,
Justice, and Joy from a Forensic Scientist, releasing May 2026 from Simon and Schuster.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Swans-Dont-Swim-in-a-Sewer/Sheryl-MacMcCollum/9798895652824
Want more from Sheryl?
Catch her every week on the Zone 7 podcast, where she hosts the main series on Wednesdays,Pathology with Dr. Priya on Mondays, and Crime Roundup each Friday alongside Joshua Schiffer.
Subscribe using your favorite podcast platform and leave a review to support the show. Have a case or topic you’d like Sheryl and Joshua to cover? Email coldcase2004@gmail.com
Follow the Hosts:
• Sheryl on X: @ColdCaseTips
• Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
• Joshua on X and Instagram: @lawyerschiff
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Josh wasa schiffer. Let me tell you something. Do you
remember jawls too?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Darn yes, yes, I am of a certain age where
there are decades that I do remember. Yes.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Do you remember when it came on the screen and
it said, just when you thought it was safe to
go back in the water.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh no, my dear, it is never safe. It is never, ever,
ever safe. I assure you, I've seen the moot.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
That is how I feel.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Just when I thought it was safe to go back
in a courtroom.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Karen Reid, Karen Reid, Karen Reid.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hey, at least it's it's a case. At least it's
not just some of the conjecturey yelly screaming, you know,
she in gasping corpse of the cottage industry that was
Karen Reid's initial trials. This is a legitimate Karen Reid's story.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Okay, there's rumors of white flags being way, tell us
what in the world the prosecution is doing.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, the prosecution's kind of giving up the ghost on
some of these things that they were trying to protect,
namely these side bars where sidebars, and we watched these
trials are where the litigants and sometimes are always the
lawyers and sometimes the litigants actually go up to the
bench and have a off the wreck or not off
the record, have a confidential discussion with the bench about
(01:39):
something going on, most often that they're trying to hide
from the jury or the audience, or for whatever reason
that they want embarrassment, whatever, whatever, whatever. Very often bench
conferences are never recorded in several trials, and they're judges
that have different personal rules about bench conferences. But in
this case and more high profile cases, stenographers are brought
(02:02):
and you can always request judge, I'd like to have
the bench conferences taken down for appeals. So in this
case they were, and during these the permutations of these
various appeals, investigations, and new civil cases, the state had
objected to releasing these confidential conversations. There's not really a
(02:26):
legal reason. It's more an embarrassment thing. You know, you
don't want to, you know, show everybody your cards necessarily
show everybody kind of more of the intimate story. But
after objecting, I think they kind of saw that, well,
we can spend a lot of time and effort fighting this,
or we can just give up the goat. They just
gave up the ghost, and they said, all right, the
(02:48):
moss is growing very slowly because the rock is rolling
downhill very very quickly.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
So what do you think it's gonna end up being it?
I mean, do you think this is going to change everything?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think it's going to give a lot more grist
to the mill about talking. You know, there were so
many wild conspiracy theories. There were so many grand pronouncements
from every single commentator out there about Oh, this is what,
this is, what's happening in the back. Oh that's because
this agency is led by this person who's met and
(03:23):
guess what. Some of that stuff may absolutely be true,
but we just you know, threw darts at it during
the trials. And I really consumed a vast amount of
media during these trials. It was almost a job to
itself just paying attention because there weren't just a couple
people loudly discussing it that mattered. There were a lot
(03:45):
of people in my particular interest being the intersection of
crime and politics and kind of culture. This was a
huge deal, and we're going to get a much more
clear picture of what they want are actually discussing, and
that will be illuminating. We'll learn a little bit more
(04:05):
about the relationship between Judge Canone and the lawyers. The
judge obviously had a demeanor from the bench. That demeanor
can be really different when they're having the Hey, no
one else can hear us. Let's come on, guys, let's talk.
It's real here. It's an intimate in exchange. So seeing
(04:26):
that then relegated to new Courier font in a deposition
that that's a whole nother science because really reading something
on paper versus experience in real life are vastly different exercises.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And I'll tell you what else is different for people.
When you're little, you think, okay, court is the good
guy versus the bad guy.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Well, when you go through a.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Trial like Karen Reid, and then you're like, is the
good guy a bad guy? Is the bad guy a
good guy or at least an innocent guy?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Never meet your heroes, Never.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Meet your heroes.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I'm just telling you this case for me sidebars excluded.
It started out as one thing, it became another thing,
it became a ridiculous thing, and then it became a
non factor thing because people kept asking me, do you
think she did it?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Do you think she didn't do it?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And my answer was almost always it doesn't matter. Yeah, sadly,
it doesn't matter. They're never going to be able to
prove it because how badly.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
That's the point people pick up what Cheryl's putting down.
The facts are what the facts are, and you can
believe all kinds of stuff, none of that matter. What
can the state put forward in a clean way that
a jury's going to agree with and go bingo, that's
a conviction. And when we're talking about how you charge
(05:57):
cases and when that's one of the most difficult decisions
that a prosecutor makes is determining what level the state
should stop the ask for because there's really there's a
more serious charge. It goes all the way until you
got dead bodies, and you can add more. But when
you're exercising your discretion in the art form of prosecution
(06:22):
is when you are picking the right charges that are
going to be effective not just at trial but in
pretrial negotiations. And that can mean adding stuff you know
you may not be able to prove eventually, but it's
being included because it's going to develop the rest of
your case through the negotiations.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
And you are a brilliant defense attorney. Sometimes you may
know somebody probably did what they're being accused of, but
you've got to get creative, you know, like the old
joke about the guy that killed his parents and then
his attorney was like, Judge, he's an orphan, like you
got you gotta give him a break. I mean, you
gotta sometimes get you work.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
With what you've got. It's you know, people always tell me.
It's like, oh, and the facts that listen half the
time to and people are shocking about facts don't matter.
Why what can the state prove if you come in
and it's a he said, she said, if the officer
didn't see squat Diddley to the end man that that
I know, you're gonna tell me all kinds of horrible
(07:24):
stuff happen. Did the cops see any of that? Are
they gonna get any testimony about any of that? Or
is the testimony gonna be valid? Okay, then none of
that stuff matters because it ain't It ain't part of
our problem. Our problem is what can the state present?
What charge can they carry? Because at the end of
(07:45):
a trial, I'm gonna tell Durr to follow the judge's direction,
and if the states carried their burden. You're gonna get
convicted because I'm gonna argue the state failed to carry
their burden more times than not. That burden issue becomes
more and more as trials continue to evolve in public
(08:06):
justice and the justice practice is in front of the
public more, that state burden crystallizes more and more as
the key function of the criminal justice system. Because we've
seen the videos on TV. We've seen the dead bodies,
We've seen the horribleness, like this little girl that no
one can find, no one knows where she is. Her
(08:27):
mom addresses her and wigs and drives her around and
won't saying to anybody. Then there's this wacky friend for
decades she holds up with a box cutter. But then
that really wasn't a case. Was that just an end
around to get her to talk about the kid. That's
what I told Vinni this week. And no, no, no,
they wouldn't create something that compu Oh yeah, they would.
(08:49):
They lean on the guy and go, hey, listen, help
us with this because we're trying to figure out this kid.
And otherwise you're going to be a suspect because you know,
pretty easy to drum up something pretty dumb And that's
exactly what it was. Turned out to be something pretty dumb.
Now that she's out, they ain't got squat Diddley on her.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And it turned out to be something pretty dumb.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
And you know you've got like you're saying, a little
girl in wigs, that's not just a parade of flags.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Whoa? And this was the week of creep factorship, Like seriously, Cheryl,
this week had creep factor on eleven between that little girl,
the the developments in the Dave D four DVD at
whatever his name is, and the last where the just
nutshell is he is now officially a suspect, still trying
(09:40):
to figure out exactly what happened to her, but it's
kind of closing in on it may not be a
murder charge, but there's going to be some charges.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Let me let me tell you something, you know, the
tattoo in the center of his forehead. I want to
be really clear with what I'm about to say. I'm
going to say two things.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I have no empirical study, I have no data.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Okay, I got forty something years experience, and I will
tell you it's.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
A lay opinion. It's a lay.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
It's a lay opinion. Thank you, Joshua Schiffer. It's a
lay opinion. When you decide your arms, your legs, your back,
your fanny, you've had enough, you are now going to
tattoo your face.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
A change has happened with you. I think this is a.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Clear indicator that every facet of your personality has now shifted,
and law enforcement might want to consider you are now violent.
So the second thing I want to say, that's the
first thing. The second thing is, please don't email me
and try to change my mind.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You're not going to. I got forty years of examples
I can give y'all.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I love you. I do believe in self expression. And
I'm not talking about cultural, tribal none of that. I'm
talking about somebody that, out of the blue has decided
to put something on their face.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
When I was raised, my childhood phone number was nine
seven seven five five seven three. My mother and father's
childhood phone numbers was like a word followed by three
digits because they were raised on like party lines.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
When I was a kid, they destroyed all of our
little brains by going you now need to dial ten digits,
and the world freaked out, freaked out, absolutely. What then,
Oh my lord, they took the people outside of Atlanta
and made them seven seven o people instead of four
or four people, And you would have thought the world
was ending. It was insane. There were going to be
(11:42):
riots in the street. Now there's a new area code. Shoot,
there's some area codes that are in Georgia. You're like,
where isn't that so getting your area code tattooed on
your forehead or fate? Man? That stuff changes, dude, Like
what happens if we stop using phone numbers like that
(12:02):
and it becomes all QR codes? And please do not
get a QR code on you. That's going to stretch.
There's no way that's going to stay accurate your skew number.
You're gonna end up walking through the grocery store. Actually
you ringing up like some bananas or something and be like,
I didn't buy that, and they're like, I'm sorry, Sarah,
we inadvertently scanned your wrinkley ass QR code enjoying the bananas. Yeah,
(12:29):
and listen, I love personal expression. I man, I had
an earring in East Cobb. Oh my lord, that was
like literally a cursing god to his face at the time.
I get it.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Listen, I'm all for it too.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
I'm just telling you there are votes in law enforcement
that is going to take a look at that and
thank you're violent.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Judge Roy Roberts. Yeah, you have a face tattoo. That's
probably cause I've read a bunch of articles about gangster
and they all have face tattoos. You have face tattoos.
You're a gangs drama judge, and man that you aren't
gonna convince him otherwise. He was an old man who
was like I've seen everybody that I've ever met with
a face tattoo was a hardcore gangst. I remember watching
(13:16):
somebody argue about teardrops with him, which tear drops for
a brief period of time meant something consistent. Then everybody
decided to get teardrops and then change the tear drops,
So now a teardrop doesn't mean anything, even though probably
in some places will still get you stabbed to death. Probably. Yeah,
there are some tattoos you should not be wearing. I remember, guys,
(13:39):
for a while, we're getting a spider web, and I'm like,
there are a couple of prisons. You put a spider
web on, that means you've done a certain amount of time,
and if you have not done that time, it is
very disrespectful to all of them for you to advertise that,
and they will remove your tattoo for you.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Joshua, Just like you said, there's an old judge that
he's only going to understand one thing. There's some old
gangsters that are going to understand one thing. And you
show up with a double lightning bolt and a tear
drop and a don't.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
You dish with them? Old one percent as old air man.
They will kill They don't care, they don't care killing you.
Oh my God, having you beat half to death because
you're a poser that God is the wrong. Oh my Lord,
in a heartbeat.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
So the face tattoo, when David decides, hey, I'm on
tattoo the center of my face, that's a flag. So
I don't know when the violence started, if he is responsible,
he allegedly now is the number one suspect. I think
he's been the only suspect the whole time. I think
(14:47):
you and I have covered it extensively, and our position
is very clear. You don't quit a world tour because
you have to quote, go talk to law enforcement if
you're an innocent person.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That's an hour I and a half Max.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, he is dealing with business. Well he has lawyered up.
I forget who it was. I saw you had somebody good.
And there's going to be no talking, no sharing, sit down,
shut up. You know, mind your p's and q's. And
it's all as to the investigation. And let's see how
far an investigation they can get, whether it's going to
(15:22):
be live humans that they got to go track down
a little bit more difficult than getting stuff like the
surveillance photos where they've gotten her in different places, and
of course the wonderfulness that is the press. They've done
an enormous amount of background digging about who was, what
to wear to whom, and who's got pictures of what.
It'll be very interesting to see what surfaces as the
(15:44):
investigation takes place. With the knowledge of understanding that something
this high profile, they are going to do their best
to bullet proof it before they present anything. And that's
something that you hope they do well. There is a
long tradition about things not being done very well. I
(16:05):
lock hernry. I was a horrible child. I was a monster.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I don't believe that I was distracted.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Oh I was angry. Oh, I was. We're gonna get
doctor Gail, my mom. She'll come on. You can ask
her all the questions you want. She will start by
telling you about the first crime I probably committed. I
was about two, and my best friend Kimmy, we were
the same age, and we we were two, so clearly
advanced and mature. And they found me and her sands
(16:40):
diapers rolling around in the backyard. Uh. And that story
was told to every single girl I ever brought home
to my house. Ever, that that was the beginning of
my nefariousness. I punched walls. Oh, I was such an
angry kid.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Up, I'm making notes.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Oh, and then you know my my college nickname was animal.
It was it was. There's there's some stories there. We
will get into that at some special occasion. But yeah, no,
the David DVD four D whatever, jaws, Uh, the face tattoo,
(17:21):
it's not going to be dispositive on his case. But
one of the things we're always counseling with clients is
how do you deal with these fair or unfair cultural
assumptions from jurors? Because I tell you what, explaining your
face tattoo in a beneficial way to square jurors from
suburban Atlanta. Man, there's a reach there because that person
(17:45):
who is now sitting in judgment of you gets to
think about the decisions that led you to put, you know,
money over bees or whatever, you know, in such a
prominent place. And there's trials that are basically made of
a part of them. It's just the tattoo exhibition where
(18:07):
they will use the tattoo as an end around for
character evidence, and they'll use it for identity or there's
all kinds of arguments that you can make. But trust me,
you show enough tattoos to enough scared jurors, they tend
to get frightened about them.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And you have a difficult job because you can say, hey,
wear a turtleneck to cover what's on your neck. Let's
put a little makeup in the center of your forehead.
But then they're going to look at that album cover
and then look back at him. Why are you hiding
it if it's self expression.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It's one of my problems with this no raps lyrics law,
which I think is an abhorrent violation of the sixth Amendment.
And if a DA wants to use rap lyrics, because
that person's saying them. They should, and if you sang lyrics,
they should to be able to be used against you
because you can get up and testify why you sing it.
And if you're smart enough to write I shot the
(18:58):
sheriff and then sell millions of albums, that's wonderful. If
you're dumb enough to say I shot Darryl Thompson on
Thursday the fourteenth, I'm the guy in the silver Dodge Charger.
It was near the Kroger. That's me going feet.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Feet man, it was near the murder Kroger.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Kroger on punt man. I'm sorry that should be used
against you in your prosecution. And that was really the
argument that people are wanting to get ugly about it.
But that was the argument during YSL about some of
these rap lyrics because you've got people like r Kelly
who are proven Purian monsters man after his convictions and
(19:41):
knowing what we know, listening to the songs kind of
land a little bit differently. Yeah, Pete Diddy, man, I
ain't hearing him on the radio nearly as much, even
though I've said a thousand times he roars back and
makes more money than ever. It's just going to be
in like ten years old man Diddy like seventy two
year old Diddy goes on the speakers circuit makes trillion dollars.
(20:03):
I'm I'm just telling you he's he's got a lot
of hustle, even though I have major problems with the
did stir. But you know, if you're going to say
certain things, you need to stand up for him. That's
an American tradition, just like the Monkey Scopes man trial.
If you're gonna teach evolution, you have to stand up
(20:24):
and defend it. If if you're gonna do pornography and
you go look at the Larry Flint trials. Larry Flint
showed up in person in Lawrenceville, Georgia to tell a
whole bunch of the most conservative Georgians in the universe
why you were allowed to make Lenny Bruce look like
a kindergarten.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
You're right, that happened. And here's the thing I agree
with you. I also think not only sixth Amendment. To me,
it's the first Amendment issue.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Mean singing and say what you won't And it doesn't
have to be true. Elvis didn't have to wear blue
swede shoes. He can still sing about it. You know,
so I mean Riba. You know, she didn't have to
go to town to make money with man. It's a song,
for heaven's sakes.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
It's such a well intentioned but unbelievably dumb idea to
regulate that in a trial set. And that's the kind
of stuff that keeps lawyers up at night, because every
rule can be used in an unfair way. It appears
like that's just a function of a rule. If you
establish something that firm, people are going to use it
(21:29):
to leverage. And sometimes the leverage is something that you
really like. Sometimes the leverage is really bad. We're seeing
that with the death penalty case, that one that was
getting argued about this week, the Bobo case, where the
da did exactly what DA's were supposed to do. Back then,
you had three people, you had death penalty quality stuff.
(21:51):
You use the death penalty squeeze all three of them.
Problem is, there were some issues with the results of
using the death penalty to extract improper confessions, and now
it delegitimizes an otherwise really strong prosecution by bringing up
the fact that, hey, this guy may have absolutely just
(22:12):
lied his pants off and told the exact same memorized
story this many times because you tried to use the
death penalty in an inappropriate to rest creating manner. And
that's oh man, that was some crazy, crazy stuff. But
the rules are always going to be used to leverage people,
(22:34):
and so let's not create unnecessary rules.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
So you mentioned creep factor.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Oh yeah, we got to hit this one before we're done.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Can we please talk about the carnival cruise and the
stamp children.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
This one is the parental nightmare of nightmares. You know.
I do not do family law. That was a rule.
I've done literally one divorce. It was lesbians. They were
in the military. Kind of did it for it's in giggles.
It was kind of funny. But I do not do
family law. I'll tell you're going to prison. I'm telling
you what's going on with your kids. Lawyers that get
(23:13):
shot to death. Almost all family lawyers, man, those people
deal with stuff that is just mind blown. And that's
because of cases like this, where the ultra nutshell is
there is a married couple that between them share multiple
kids and step kids. The mom's eldest child is a
(23:35):
beautiful eighteen year old cheerleader, life of the party, whole
world going for her. The dad's step kids include a
sixteen and an eleven year old or twelve or something
like that. There were some other kids as well, but
they all go on a cruise, and there had been
complaints from the eighteen year old's father about what was
(24:01):
happening in this family and the opportunity for abuse between
the sixteen year old step brother and the eighteen year
old beautiful cheerleader, and inappropriate stuff was getting alleged in
a civil filing, involved in a custody case, and then
in probably international waters on a cruise ship. It appears
(24:23):
and has been basically said by the press, so I
don't feel like I'm talking out of school, that the
sixteen year old child arguably murdered his eighteen year old
stepsister through a chokehold and then put her under the
bed and slept there and then no one had seen
her and basically killed his older stepsister, which then brings
(24:46):
up a whole discussion that's going on about the improper
characterization and over sexualization of the blended family thing, which
is a cultural issue that is downright frightening, and that
is happening from another part of my universe. Because I've
done some work in the most period of dark corners
(25:08):
in some First Amendment and adult entertainment where the step
relationship taboo is of big economic value in the kind
of purient materials that are produced and sold to all
of our teenage kids. And man, this one's gonna unpeck
(25:29):
really horribly.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
And one thing, when it first came out, they were saying,
you know, they don't know if it's a homicide, but
she's covered in life vest like somebody tried to hide her.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I can see the scene based off just a little
bit that was released. If you've been on a cruise
and you've got that bed, the bedroom had one bed
and a pair of bunk beds. I mean, I can
see it in my eyes. Under that main bed, you
pull the curtain to the side or tilted up, it's
your suitcase storage and your life vests. And when you
unpack your suitcase you stick it under there. Because cruise
(26:04):
ship premium storage is at a premium. So right before
actually Cheryl and I are recording, this information got released
that the cause of death does appear to be an
arm bar that's being reported by the New York Post,
and that thankfully it does not appear that there was
any sexual assault or it. But again, investigation ongoing. Let's
(26:27):
hope that that holds up. But absolutely a nightmare because
we've got this non custodial father of an eighteen year
old terrified about what the stepchild of his exes or sorry,
his ex's new stepchild might do to his daughter. And
that gives me willies to the tips of the toes. Yep,
(26:50):
I got a daughter. I got a lot of friends
with daughters. I was also a boy. I also know
how horrible boys are. I'm sorry, boys, I'm not ripping
off the band aid. They knew already how horrible you are,
many of the married men. And it's it really that
one that twists the knife.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And you know, they say that her boyfriend has come
forward and said, even when he was facetiming her, he
saw what he saw as far as the step mother
trying to lay on top of her, so it could
be a situation was she going to tell?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Did he stop her from telling?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
My conspiracy theory brain goes through all of those extortiony concepts,
refusal concept There's just there's so many horrific things and
I just I'm trying not to think about it. Because
really that that's going to get real, real dark, real quick.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
And they have blown up four families conservatively, I mean
the ripple effects. The boyfriends, the girlfriends, the classmates, the
grandparents are unbelievably happy.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Woman was going to join the military like she she
had everything going for. Uh. Just that that that one
that sticks with you.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Agreed, well, as always, I would love for you to
take us out, I know, but I would love for
you to take us out.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
On a positive.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Note, Yeah, I'll do this, remember every single day and
live it fully because your journey is yours and yours alone,
and you should really go love something, even if it's you,
because you never know when that journey can get cut
(28:42):
short to do no fault of your own, or you
can be an idiot like Josh and roll his ATV
on the lease. Uh, because he put a bird feeder
in his lap and turned the handlebars and it hit
the accelerator and Josh rolled an ATV at the age
of forty nine automatically kill you as I immediately realized, now,
(29:08):
thank god, I'm a safe driver. I'm kind of dork
like that, but still terrifying moment. But there for the
grace that I land and not the other.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
What a freak accident.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Literally, I had a bird feeder I was bringing out
to the swamp because when I'm sitting out there, I
like to watch birds because I'm a dork, and it's
basically free. So put it on a little saddlebag area
and when I turned the handlebars, it hit that little
thumb accelerator.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
And well, he's the Lord. You're all right, yep, and
you got a good story to tell.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
You never know, and you never know. Enjoy every single
find the beauty, find that flower in the crack of
the cement. And the fact that when I'm walking down
we can go to the Gwinnette County Jail on our
Rico case with a couple of my colleagues today, big
Rico case. Gwnette County Jail has the longest hallways made
(30:11):
made in Georgia. They are They're just the longest hallways ever.
But guess what, I got a lot of steps.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
At glass cat full always there. You go, Love you,
I love you.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I'm glad you say I got some stories, alright, to
get the doctor on the phone. I need to talk
about that.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I'm telling you it was it was. I'll say this.
I had a spiritual weekend last week. There was a
journey of spirit and questing and deep conversation with the
little like it was good.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
All right, we're gonna talk about all of it. Y'all
have a good weekend.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I adore you, my friend, love you.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Be good. Everybody,
Josh wasa schiffer. Let me tell you something. Do you
remember jawls too?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Darn yes, yes, I am of a certain age where
there are decades that I do remember. Yes.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Do you remember when it came on the screen and
it said, just when you thought it was safe to
go back in the water.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh no, my dear, it is never safe. It is never, ever,
ever safe. I assure you, I've seen the moot.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
That is how I feel.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Just when I thought it was safe to go back
in a courtroom.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Karen Reid, Karen Reid, Karen Reid.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hey, at least it's it's a case. At least it's
not just some of the conjecturey yelly screaming, you know,
she in gasping corpse of the cottage industry that was
Karen Reid's initial trials. This is a legitimate Karen Reid's story.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Okay, there's rumors of white flags being way, tell us
what in the world the prosecution is doing.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, the prosecution's kind of giving up the ghost on
some of these things that they were trying to protect,
namely these side bars where sidebars, and we watched these
trials are where the litigants and sometimes are always the
lawyers and sometimes the litigants actually go up to the
bench and have a off the wreck or not off
the record, have a confidential discussion with the bench about
(01:39):
something going on, most often that they're trying to hide
from the jury or the audience, or for whatever reason
that they want embarrassment, whatever, whatever, whatever. Very often bench
conferences are never recorded in several trials, and they're judges
that have different personal rules about bench conferences. But in
this case and more high profile cases, stenographers are brought
(02:02):
and you can always request judge, I'd like to have
the bench conferences taken down for appeals. So in this
case they were, and during these the permutations of these
various appeals, investigations, and new civil cases, the state had
objected to releasing these confidential conversations. There's not really a
(02:26):
legal reason. It's more an embarrassment thing. You know, you
don't want to, you know, show everybody your cards necessarily
show everybody kind of more of the intimate story. But
after objecting, I think they kind of saw that, well,
we can spend a lot of time and effort fighting this,
or we can just give up the goat. They just
gave up the ghost, and they said, all right, the
(02:48):
moss is growing very slowly because the rock is rolling
downhill very very quickly.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
So what do you think it's gonna end up being it?
I mean, do you think this is going to change everything?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think it's going to give a lot more grist
to the mill about talking. You know, there were so
many wild conspiracy theories. There were so many grand pronouncements
from every single commentator out there about Oh, this is what,
this is, what's happening in the back. Oh that's because
this agency is led by this person who's met and
(03:23):
guess what. Some of that stuff may absolutely be true,
but we just you know, threw darts at it during
the trials. And I really consumed a vast amount of
media during these trials. It was almost a job to
itself just paying attention because there weren't just a couple
people loudly discussing it that mattered. There were a lot
(03:45):
of people in my particular interest being the intersection of
crime and politics and kind of culture. This was a
huge deal, and we're going to get a much more
clear picture of what they want are actually discussing, and
that will be illuminating. We'll learn a little bit more
(04:05):
about the relationship between Judge Canone and the lawyers. The
judge obviously had a demeanor from the bench. That demeanor
can be really different when they're having the Hey, no
one else can hear us. Let's come on, guys, let's talk.
It's real here. It's an intimate in exchange. So seeing
(04:26):
that then relegated to new Courier font in a deposition
that that's a whole nother science because really reading something
on paper versus experience in real life are vastly different exercises.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And I'll tell you what else is different for people.
When you're little, you think, okay, court is the good
guy versus the bad guy.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Well, when you go through a.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Trial like Karen Reid, and then you're like, is the
good guy a bad guy? Is the bad guy a
good guy or at least an innocent guy?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Never meet your heroes, Never.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Meet your heroes.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I'm just telling you this case for me sidebars excluded.
It started out as one thing, it became another thing,
it became a ridiculous thing, and then it became a
non factor thing because people kept asking me, do you
think she did it?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Do you think she didn't do it?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And my answer was almost always it doesn't matter. Yeah, sadly,
it doesn't matter. They're never going to be able to
prove it because how badly.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
That's the point people pick up what Cheryl's putting down.
The facts are what the facts are, and you can
believe all kinds of stuff, none of that matter. What
can the state put forward in a clean way that
a jury's going to agree with and go bingo, that's
a conviction. And when we're talking about how you charge
(05:57):
cases and when that's one of the most difficult decisions
that a prosecutor makes is determining what level the state
should stop the ask for because there's really there's a
more serious charge. It goes all the way until you
got dead bodies, and you can add more. But when
you're exercising your discretion in the art form of prosecution
(06:22):
is when you are picking the right charges that are
going to be effective not just at trial but in
pretrial negotiations. And that can mean adding stuff you know
you may not be able to prove eventually, but it's
being included because it's going to develop the rest of
your case through the negotiations.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
And you are a brilliant defense attorney. Sometimes you may
know somebody probably did what they're being accused of, but
you've got to get creative, you know, like the old
joke about the guy that killed his parents and then
his attorney was like, Judge, he's an orphan, like you
got you gotta give him a break. I mean, you
gotta sometimes get you work.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
With what you've got. It's you know, people always tell me.
It's like, oh, and the facts that listen half the
time to and people are shocking about facts don't matter.
Why what can the state prove if you come in
and it's a he said, she said, if the officer
didn't see squat Diddley to the end man that that
I know, you're gonna tell me all kinds of horrible
(07:24):
stuff happen. Did the cops see any of that? Are
they gonna get any testimony about any of that? Or
is the testimony gonna be valid? Okay, then none of
that stuff matters because it ain't It ain't part of
our problem. Our problem is what can the state present?
What charge can they carry? Because at the end of
(07:45):
a trial, I'm gonna tell Durr to follow the judge's direction,
and if the states carried their burden. You're gonna get
convicted because I'm gonna argue the state failed to carry
their burden more times than not. That burden issue becomes
more and more as trials continue to evolve in public
(08:06):
justice and the justice practice is in front of the
public more, that state burden crystallizes more and more as
the key function of the criminal justice system. Because we've
seen the videos on TV. We've seen the dead bodies,
We've seen the horribleness, like this little girl that no
one can find, no one knows where she is. Her
(08:27):
mom addresses her and wigs and drives her around and
won't saying to anybody. Then there's this wacky friend for
decades she holds up with a box cutter. But then
that really wasn't a case. Was that just an end
around to get her to talk about the kid. That's
what I told Vinni this week. And no, no, no,
they wouldn't create something that compu Oh yeah, they would.
(08:49):
They lean on the guy and go, hey, listen, help
us with this because we're trying to figure out this kid.
And otherwise you're going to be a suspect because you know,
pretty easy to drum up something pretty dumb And that's
exactly what it was. Turned out to be something pretty dumb.
Now that she's out, they ain't got squat Diddley on her.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And it turned out to be something pretty dumb.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
And you know you've got like you're saying, a little
girl in wigs, that's not just a parade of flags.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Whoa? And this was the week of creep factorship, Like seriously, Cheryl,
this week had creep factor on eleven between that little girl,
the the developments in the Dave D four DVD at
whatever his name is, and the last where the just
nutshell is he is now officially a suspect, still trying
(09:40):
to figure out exactly what happened to her, but it's
kind of closing in on it may not be a
murder charge, but there's going to be some charges.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Let me let me tell you something, you know, the
tattoo in the center of his forehead. I want to
be really clear with what I'm about to say. I'm
going to say two things.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I have no empirical study, I have no data.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Okay, I got forty something years experience, and I will
tell you it's.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
A lay opinion. It's a lay.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
It's a lay opinion. Thank you, Joshua Schiffer. It's a
lay opinion. When you decide your arms, your legs, your back,
your fanny, you've had enough, you are now going to
tattoo your face.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
A change has happened with you. I think this is a.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Clear indicator that every facet of your personality has now shifted,
and law enforcement might want to consider you are now violent.
So the second thing I want to say, that's the
first thing. The second thing is, please don't email me
and try to change my mind.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You're not going to. I got forty years of examples
I can give y'all.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I love you. I do believe in self expression. And
I'm not talking about cultural, tribal none of that. I'm
talking about somebody that, out of the blue has decided
to put something on their face.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
When I was raised, my childhood phone number was nine
seven seven five five seven three. My mother and father's
childhood phone numbers was like a word followed by three
digits because they were raised on like party lines.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
When I was a kid, they destroyed all of our
little brains by going you now need to dial ten digits,
and the world freaked out, freaked out, absolutely. What then,
Oh my lord, they took the people outside of Atlanta
and made them seven seven o people instead of four
or four people, And you would have thought the world
was ending. It was insane. There were going to be
(11:42):
riots in the street. Now there's a new area code. Shoot,
there's some area codes that are in Georgia. You're like,
where isn't that so getting your area code tattooed on
your forehead or fate? Man? That stuff changes, dude, Like
what happens if we stop using phone numbers like that
(12:02):
and it becomes all QR codes? And please do not
get a QR code on you. That's going to stretch.
There's no way that's going to stay accurate your skew number.
You're gonna end up walking through the grocery store. Actually
you ringing up like some bananas or something and be like,
I didn't buy that, and they're like, I'm sorry, Sarah,
we inadvertently scanned your wrinkley ass QR code enjoying the bananas. Yeah,
(12:29):
and listen, I love personal expression. I man, I had
an earring in East Cobb. Oh my lord, that was
like literally a cursing god to his face at the time.
I get it.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Listen, I'm all for it too.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
I'm just telling you there are votes in law enforcement
that is going to take a look at that and
thank you're violent.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Judge Roy Roberts. Yeah, you have a face tattoo. That's
probably cause I've read a bunch of articles about gangster
and they all have face tattoos. You have face tattoos.
You're a gangs drama judge, and man that you aren't
gonna convince him otherwise. He was an old man who
was like I've seen everybody that I've ever met with
a face tattoo was a hardcore gangst. I remember watching
(13:16):
somebody argue about teardrops with him, which tear drops for
a brief period of time meant something consistent. Then everybody
decided to get teardrops and then change the tear drops,
So now a teardrop doesn't mean anything, even though probably
in some places will still get you stabbed to death. Probably. Yeah,
there are some tattoos you should not be wearing. I remember, guys,
(13:39):
for a while, we're getting a spider web, and I'm like,
there are a couple of prisons. You put a spider
web on, that means you've done a certain amount of time,
and if you have not done that time, it is
very disrespectful to all of them for you to advertise that,
and they will remove your tattoo for you.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Joshua, Just like you said, there's an old judge that
he's only going to understand one thing. There's some old
gangsters that are going to understand one thing. And you
show up with a double lightning bolt and a tear
drop and a don't.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
You dish with them? Old one percent as old air man.
They will kill They don't care, they don't care killing you.
Oh my God, having you beat half to death because
you're a poser that God is the wrong. Oh my Lord,
in a heartbeat.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
So the face tattoo, when David decides, hey, I'm on
tattoo the center of my face, that's a flag. So
I don't know when the violence started, if he is responsible,
he allegedly now is the number one suspect. I think
he's been the only suspect the whole time. I think
(14:47):
you and I have covered it extensively, and our position
is very clear. You don't quit a world tour because
you have to quote, go talk to law enforcement if
you're an innocent person.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That's an hour I and a half Max.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, he is dealing with business. Well he has lawyered up.
I forget who it was. I saw you had somebody good.
And there's going to be no talking, no sharing, sit down,
shut up. You know, mind your p's and q's. And
it's all as to the investigation. And let's see how
far an investigation they can get, whether it's going to
(15:22):
be live humans that they got to go track down
a little bit more difficult than getting stuff like the
surveillance photos where they've gotten her in different places, and
of course the wonderfulness that is the press. They've done
an enormous amount of background digging about who was, what
to wear to whom, and who's got pictures of what.
It'll be very interesting to see what surfaces as the
(15:44):
investigation takes place. With the knowledge of understanding that something
this high profile, they are going to do their best
to bullet proof it before they present anything. And that's
something that you hope they do well. There is a
long tradition about things not being done very well. I
(16:05):
lock hernry. I was a horrible child. I was a monster.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I don't believe that I was distracted.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Oh I was angry. Oh, I was. We're gonna get
doctor Gail, my mom. She'll come on. You can ask
her all the questions you want. She will start by
telling you about the first crime I probably committed. I
was about two, and my best friend Kimmy, we were
the same age, and we we were two, so clearly
advanced and mature. And they found me and her sands
(16:40):
diapers rolling around in the backyard. Uh. And that story
was told to every single girl I ever brought home
to my house. Ever, that that was the beginning of
my nefariousness. I punched walls. Oh, I was such an
angry kid.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Up, I'm making notes.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Oh, and then you know my my college nickname was animal.
It was it was. There's there's some stories there. We
will get into that at some special occasion. But yeah, no,
the David DVD four D whatever, jaws, Uh, the face tattoo,
(17:21):
it's not going to be dispositive on his case. But
one of the things we're always counseling with clients is
how do you deal with these fair or unfair cultural
assumptions from jurors? Because I tell you what, explaining your
face tattoo in a beneficial way to square jurors from
suburban Atlanta. Man, there's a reach there because that person
(17:45):
who is now sitting in judgment of you gets to
think about the decisions that led you to put, you know,
money over bees or whatever, you know, in such a
prominent place. And there's trials that are basically made of
a part of them. It's just the tattoo exhibition where
(18:07):
they will use the tattoo as an end around for
character evidence, and they'll use it for identity or there's
all kinds of arguments that you can make. But trust me,
you show enough tattoos to enough scared jurors, they tend
to get frightened about them.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And you have a difficult job because you can say, hey,
wear a turtleneck to cover what's on your neck. Let's
put a little makeup in the center of your forehead.
But then they're going to look at that album cover
and then look back at him. Why are you hiding
it if it's self expression.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It's one of my problems with this no raps lyrics law,
which I think is an abhorrent violation of the sixth Amendment.
And if a DA wants to use rap lyrics, because
that person's saying them. They should, and if you sang lyrics,
they should to be able to be used against you
because you can get up and testify why you sing it.
And if you're smart enough to write I shot the
(18:58):
sheriff and then sell millions of albums, that's wonderful. If
you're dumb enough to say I shot Darryl Thompson on
Thursday the fourteenth, I'm the guy in the silver Dodge Charger.
It was near the Kroger. That's me going feet.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Feet man, it was near the murder Kroger.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Kroger on punt man. I'm sorry that should be used
against you in your prosecution. And that was really the
argument that people are wanting to get ugly about it.
But that was the argument during YSL about some of
these rap lyrics because you've got people like r Kelly
who are proven Purian monsters man after his convictions and
(19:41):
knowing what we know, listening to the songs kind of
land a little bit differently. Yeah, Pete Diddy, man, I
ain't hearing him on the radio nearly as much, even
though I've said a thousand times he roars back and
makes more money than ever. It's just going to be
in like ten years old man Diddy like seventy two
year old Diddy goes on the speakers circuit makes trillion dollars.
(20:03):
I'm I'm just telling you he's he's got a lot
of hustle, even though I have major problems with the
did stir. But you know, if you're going to say
certain things, you need to stand up for him. That's
an American tradition, just like the Monkey Scopes man trial.
If you're gonna teach evolution, you have to stand up
(20:24):
and defend it. If if you're gonna do pornography and
you go look at the Larry Flint trials. Larry Flint
showed up in person in Lawrenceville, Georgia to tell a
whole bunch of the most conservative Georgians in the universe
why you were allowed to make Lenny Bruce look like
a kindergarten.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
You're right, that happened. And here's the thing I agree
with you. I also think not only sixth Amendment. To me,
it's the first Amendment issue.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Mean singing and say what you won't And it doesn't
have to be true. Elvis didn't have to wear blue
swede shoes. He can still sing about it. You know,
so I mean Riba. You know, she didn't have to
go to town to make money with man. It's a song,
for heaven's sakes.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
It's such a well intentioned but unbelievably dumb idea to
regulate that in a trial set. And that's the kind
of stuff that keeps lawyers up at night, because every
rule can be used in an unfair way. It appears
like that's just a function of a rule. If you
establish something that firm, people are going to use it
(21:29):
to leverage. And sometimes the leverage is something that you
really like. Sometimes the leverage is really bad. We're seeing
that with the death penalty case, that one that was
getting argued about this week, the Bobo case, where the
da did exactly what DA's were supposed to do. Back then,
you had three people, you had death penalty quality stuff.
(21:51):
You use the death penalty squeeze all three of them.
Problem is, there were some issues with the results of
using the death penalty to extract improper confessions, and now
it delegitimizes an otherwise really strong prosecution by bringing up
the fact that, hey, this guy may have absolutely just
(22:12):
lied his pants off and told the exact same memorized
story this many times because you tried to use the
death penalty in an inappropriate to rest creating manner. And
that's oh man, that was some crazy, crazy stuff. But
the rules are always going to be used to leverage people,
(22:34):
and so let's not create unnecessary rules.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
So you mentioned creep factor.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Oh yeah, we got to hit this one before we're done.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Can we please talk about the carnival cruise and the
stamp children.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
This one is the parental nightmare of nightmares. You know.
I do not do family law. That was a rule.
I've done literally one divorce. It was lesbians. They were
in the military. Kind of did it for it's in giggles.
It was kind of funny. But I do not do
family law. I'll tell you're going to prison. I'm telling
you what's going on with your kids. Lawyers that get
(23:13):
shot to death. Almost all family lawyers, man, those people
deal with stuff that is just mind blown. And that's
because of cases like this, where the ultra nutshell is
there is a married couple that between them share multiple
kids and step kids. The mom's eldest child is a
(23:35):
beautiful eighteen year old cheerleader, life of the party, whole
world going for her. The dad's step kids include a
sixteen and an eleven year old or twelve or something
like that. There were some other kids as well, but
they all go on a cruise, and there had been
complaints from the eighteen year old's father about what was
(24:01):
happening in this family and the opportunity for abuse between
the sixteen year old step brother and the eighteen year
old beautiful cheerleader, and inappropriate stuff was getting alleged in
a civil filing, involved in a custody case, and then
in probably international waters on a cruise ship. It appears
(24:23):
and has been basically said by the press, so I
don't feel like I'm talking out of school, that the
sixteen year old child arguably murdered his eighteen year old
stepsister through a chokehold and then put her under the
bed and slept there and then no one had seen
her and basically killed his older stepsister, which then brings
(24:46):
up a whole discussion that's going on about the improper
characterization and over sexualization of the blended family thing, which
is a cultural issue that is downright frightening, and that
is happening from another part of my universe. Because I've
done some work in the most period of dark corners
(25:08):
in some First Amendment and adult entertainment where the step
relationship taboo is of big economic value in the kind
of purient materials that are produced and sold to all
of our teenage kids. And man, this one's gonna unpeck
(25:29):
really horribly.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
And one thing, when it first came out, they were saying,
you know, they don't know if it's a homicide, but
she's covered in life vest like somebody tried to hide her.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I can see the scene based off just a little
bit that was released. If you've been on a cruise
and you've got that bed, the bedroom had one bed
and a pair of bunk beds. I mean, I can
see it in my eyes. Under that main bed, you
pull the curtain to the side or tilted up, it's
your suitcase storage and your life vests. And when you
unpack your suitcase you stick it under there. Because cruise
(26:04):
ship premium storage is at a premium. So right before
actually Cheryl and I are recording, this information got released
that the cause of death does appear to be an
arm bar that's being reported by the New York Post,
and that thankfully it does not appear that there was
any sexual assault or it. But again, investigation ongoing. Let's
(26:27):
hope that that holds up. But absolutely a nightmare because
we've got this non custodial father of an eighteen year
old terrified about what the stepchild of his exes or sorry,
his ex's new stepchild might do to his daughter. And
that gives me willies to the tips of the toes. Yep,
(26:50):
I got a daughter. I got a lot of friends
with daughters. I was also a boy. I also know
how horrible boys are. I'm sorry, boys, I'm not ripping
off the band aid. They knew already how horrible you are,
many of the married men. And it's it really that
one that twists the knife.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And you know, they say that her boyfriend has come
forward and said, even when he was facetiming her, he
saw what he saw as far as the step mother
trying to lay on top of her, so it could
be a situation was she going to tell?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Did he stop her from telling?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
My conspiracy theory brain goes through all of those extortiony concepts,
refusal concept There's just there's so many horrific things and
I just I'm trying not to think about it. Because
really that that's going to get real, real dark, real quick.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
And they have blown up four families conservatively, I mean
the ripple effects. The boyfriends, the girlfriends, the classmates, the
grandparents are unbelievably happy.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Woman was going to join the military like she she
had everything going for. Uh. Just that that that one
that sticks with you.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Agreed, well, as always, I would love for you to
take us out, I know, but I would love for
you to take us out.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
On a positive.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Note, Yeah, I'll do this, remember every single day and
live it fully because your journey is yours and yours alone,
and you should really go love something, even if it's you,
because you never know when that journey can get cut
(28:42):
short to do no fault of your own, or you
can be an idiot like Josh and roll his ATV
on the lease. Uh, because he put a bird feeder
in his lap and turned the handlebars and it hit
the accelerator and Josh rolled an ATV at the age
of forty nine automatically kill you as I immediately realized, now,
(29:08):
thank god, I'm a safe driver. I'm kind of dork
like that, but still terrifying moment. But there for the
grace that I land and not the other.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
What a freak accident.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Literally, I had a bird feeder I was bringing out
to the swamp because when I'm sitting out there, I
like to watch birds because I'm a dork, and it's
basically free. So put it on a little saddlebag area
and when I turned the handlebars, it hit that little
thumb accelerator.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
And well, he's the Lord. You're all right, yep, and
you got a good story to tell.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
You never know, and you never know. Enjoy every single
find the beauty, find that flower in the crack of
the cement. And the fact that when I'm walking down
we can go to the Gwinnette County Jail on our
Rico case with a couple of my colleagues today, big
Rico case. Gwnette County Jail has the longest hallways made
(30:11):
made in Georgia. They are They're just the longest hallways ever.
But guess what, I got a lot of steps.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
At glass cat full always there. You go, Love you,
I love you.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I'm glad you say I got some stories, alright, to
get the doctor on the phone. I need to talk
about that.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I'm telling you it was it was. I'll say this.
I had a spiritual weekend last week. There was a
journey of spirit and questing and deep conversation with the
little like it was good.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
All right, we're gonna talk about all of it. Y'all
have a good weekend.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I adore you, my friend, love you.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Be good. Everybody,
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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