June 13, 2025 • 28 mins
Today Nancy Grace and Sheryl McCollum get personal, powerful, and just a little bit poetic. From a town mourning its unlikely mascot to Nancy’s candid reflections on personal tragedy, the conversation explores how loss, both individual and shared, shapes the pursuit of justice. They examine the impact of victim-centered storytelling, particularly in the upcoming One Night in Idaho docuseries, and how it reframes our understanding of crime and accountability. Plus, they break down the Dateline leak that’s stirring controversy ahead of the Bryan Kohberger trial. Who leaked it, and why does it matter? The answers may be more complicated than you think.
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Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome! Nancy and Sheryl introduce this week’s crime roundup
- (0:30) Morning mayhem and family updates
- (2:00) Flat Creek Floyd: Mourning a town mascot
- (4:30) Keith’s story and the ripple effect of grief
- (6:00) One Night in Idaho: Why victim voices matter
- (10:30) Centering the story on those who lived it
- (11:30) Trial logistics, disruptions, and the emotional cost for families
- (14:40) What Happened to Ellen?: An American Miscarriage of Justice
- (15:30) Dateline leak causes a stir | Who leaked it, and what’s at stake
- (20:30) Connecting the victims: Sorority photos and Google searches
- (24:00) Was Maddie the real target?
- (26:30) Jury bias, leaks, and legal fallout
- (27:00) Kanye, titanium teeth, and courtroom chaos
- (28:00) Farewell to Flat Creek Floyd
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Nancy Grace is an outspoken, tireless advocate for victims’ rights and one of television's most respected legal analysts. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor. She is the founder and publisher of CrimeOnline.com, a crime- fighting digital platform that investigates breaking crime news, spreads awareness of missing people and shines a light on cold cases.
In addition, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a daily show hosted by Grace, airs on SIRIUS XM’s Triumph Channel 111 and is downloadable as a podcast on all audio platforms - https://www.crimeonline.com/
Connect with Nancy:
X: @nancygrace
Instagram: @thenancygrace
Facebook: @nancygrace
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice.
Connect with Sheryl:
Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum and I
cannot wait to talk to nat to Grace this morning.
Y'all better hang on. I got a feeling she is
on fire.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Good morning, honey, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You got me right in the middle of let's see
cleaning the guinea pig. Canny put in a guinea out
feeding the grandmammy making up? What does he want? Listen
to this, John David Lynch. He's not spoiled. I made
him once and now he once in all the time.
Let's see what kind of English muffin is it? Hold
on just a second, wait a minute. It has to
(00:44):
be a certain kind Thomas original, the kind of course
that you have to slice yourself. Okay, that with ripped
up Pavarti cheese, Kroger Brand, Kroger Brand, and bacon on
a toasted English muffin, and then I wrap it up
at two paper towels in a certain way and put
(01:05):
a note beside it.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Really, that's fabulous.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
What poor woman's going to get him? And then we
have to have organic whole milk mixed with okay, what
is it? I have to look at the name ovaltine
and quick with a straw.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
And you know he's a working man. Oh, yes, that's
a good way to start.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
He has two jobs this summer, as does Lucy. He's
working at the hospital and he's working in the bio
I am so bragging now biomedical engineering program. And I
don't know exactly what he's doing, but it's regenerating DNA.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I know. Really, I just try to yell out a
Latin phrase every once in a while to seem relevant.
I know, nothing apparently good.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, I know they're both at the hospital, and then
she's at the law firm.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so per out of her. Forget about
legal research. She did a background search on.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Some well that will serve her.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Well, I'm like, good girl, Now you know how to
do it for every person you date from now on.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
You know, I got to tell you, it's been an
unusual week for me with not just these cases, but
in my town. As you know, we have a kind
of local legend hero for us called Flat Creek Floyd.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
He's an alligator and.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
He's one of those fun little things for our town
that whenever anybody spotted him, oh, they would take a
picture and then they'd put on social media where he
was sunbathing, and he would show up at the golf course,
he would show up across the street.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
We would see him, of course in the creek.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
You would saying, with a chicken in his mouth.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
It was one of those things that you know, the
kids in school, of course, loved it, and it was
a wave that it sounds kind of silly, but our
town really bonded over him. So if you saw him
and you would, you know, put on social media where
he was at. Other people would come to see him,
to take the picture, to talk about him. So you know,
(03:12):
there'd be strangers that you hadn't met yet and said, oh,
you know, look at him, he's gotten so much longer
or whatever. Well, sadly, he was hit by a car
last week and couldn't survive his injuries. And you know,
we really all were sad about him, because again, he's
somebody that I don't know. It sounds kind of silly
(03:33):
to people, but I'm just telling you we loved him,
and all the school kids loved him, and all of
our neighbors loved him.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
People were making t shirts to memorialize him, and then
there were some people that had some negative things to
say on social media about that.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
What is there to say?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
It's not like his family's getting unjustly enriched exactly. Well
then they posted that there's going to be a vigil tonight.
Well people just went crazy saying all have gone too far,
y'all a being so silly. But for us, it is
a way to just come together to say, hey, he
was a really cool part of this town. Got a
(04:09):
missing But I say that because I can remember every
now and then, even with you, with Keith, there's people
that have something to say, and you have spent your
life to make sure people remember him that he was
a baseball player, what he meant to Valdosta State, Your
(04:29):
town was affected. So when you think of somebody or
an animal that you love that you care about, that
ripple effect, Nancy is just crazy. And then to me
when you are trying so hard, because I think you
have done a beautiful job. When you wrote that first
(04:49):
book and I opened it, the first thing I saw
it was very simple, but it was so profound.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
It just said for Keith, I mean it just hit me.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Well, then you know you're thinking his mom and dad,
his sister, your mom and dad, your brother and.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Sister, the baseball team, the college.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Like this ripple effect when somebody's trying to say, oh,
you know, she's just using it for this show. You
lived it long before there was a show. I tell
people all the time, you think about it. She was
a young kid. They were both so young. It transformed
(05:32):
your life. You were never going to go to law school.
You weren't going to be a prosecutor. That wasn't even
on the table. Y'all were going to live in a
little small town. You were going to teach. He was
going to work construction. That was gonna be it. That
ain't what happened. And I think, you know, it's just powerful.
And I say all of this to say, there is
(05:55):
a four part docuseriies coming out called One Night Idaho
the College murders and Nancy. It's only about the people
that were involved and affected by the crime.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It's families, friends and roommates. That's it.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
There's no expert weighing in, there's no reporter weighing in.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It's just those people.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And I think that to me, whether it's Flat Creek,
Floyd or Keith or these poor students, that to me
is what's critical.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
The people that loved them and knew them and understood.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And I just want to say again publicly to you,
I think the way you have lived your life and
made sure all of us knew Keith, knew what happened,
and most importantly know how you're using what happened to you.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, that was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I never even thought about it. I mean, I know
I would never have gone to law school if it
had not been for Keith what happened to him, That
would never have happened.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
But you know, I don't I don't know how to
put words to what you said.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
It wasn't a plan. It just kind of evolved. It
just kind of all happened, if that makes any sense.
And you know, for years and years I never talked,
I never spoke to anyone about what happened to Keith.
When I was in the District Attorney's office. It was
only till the very very end that I told my
(07:46):
best friends in the office about Keith. They did not know,
and I don't know why I didn't, but I didn't.
And I remember the time I ever talked about it,
years had passed. I was already at court.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
TV, and no, I was already going I was already
at Court TV and had been at Court TV, and
they knew about it, but I never suckered it publicly
until a friend that you know, Dean They was a
booker at that time, Larry King. He got me to
(08:26):
talk about it on Larry King and tell what happened,
to tell the story. And I remember I was so
lumixed that he asked me when it happened and I
said August sixth, and I couldn't remember the year, and
I got the year wrong, and of course people looked
up online and then attacked me.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
We're not getting the year right. I don't know what
because so crazy.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
And That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I mean, people have these opinions and they are going
to research something like you made that up, and they
don't understand trauma. I mean, they don't get it and
they don't care. I mean, they want to make fun
that we are sad about an alligator. They want to
make fun that two roommates survived.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
How could that be? They had to be involved somehow,
you know, you know.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
The thing about an alligator near our house. We how
the well, some people will call it a swamp. I
prefer to call it a creek and it's a turtle
hangout and there's one spot in the area turtle crossing.
One got run over and I'm like and did like
you couldn't. He was going too fast for you.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
You had to run over the And it's a turtle
that for generations have crossed right there in the road
at that spot forever, and you had.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
To run over it. I believed it on a yankee,
but that's it. Just kidding. But yes, I get it.
I get it. I completely get it, which reminds me
I'm speed reading. I never have time to actually read
a book, which is all I did before, you know,
I got into actually TV. I still had time to
(10:09):
do it at night when I was a prosecutor. But
TV is at night too, so that kind of And
then the children came. But my sister started a book
and I'm trying to read as fast as she does.
Swamp Landy. Yes, speaking of gators, I don't know what
happens in them, but it's awesome. Takes place at a
Gator theme park. It's it's great so far. Okay, now
(10:29):
what are we talking about? Coburger? Is that where we're going?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
We're going to talk about coburger.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Okay, hit me that way about the docu series, I
haven't is that out because I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
No, it's not out. It comes out July eleventh. And
that's what I wanted to ask you, was a prosecutor.
I think coming out before the August eleventh trial is brilliant.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Let's set the tone.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
They should be able to tell their story without all
these rumors.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I agree, because it's never going to be told in
court because, as you know, you have to be very wily,
and I mean that in a good way to get
evidence about who the victim was in court. Now, I
found a way. This was the way I would do it.
I would take a picture, get a picture of the
victim if I could, in life, and find a way
(11:21):
to connect it to the forensic evidence. And that way,
the jury would get to see the victim in life
and be able to identify with the victim. It's just
not a name on an autopsy report. It's just not
a name in an indictment. And of course, whenever I could,
of course there were times I couldn't. I would have victims'
(11:44):
families there. That is so important, and I guarantee you
the victims in the Idaho case are going to be
front and center, and they're going to great sacrifice to
be there. It's some seven hour drive for some of them.
One way, they're gonna have to leave their jobs and
(12:04):
live in Boise for the duration. I mean, you know,
when we went to Murdoch or we went to Idaho,
that was a very big disruption in my family life
because of the children, right, I mean leaving them alone
(12:25):
with David. I mean, they're they're gonna live. Like I
can't told you what happened. I came home from Coburger
and it looked like, I said, the house has been ransacked.
What did they take? Did they take the TV? Okay,
number one, let's start with that, because I gotta have
Amazon Prime Video to see on my murder shows at night.
(12:45):
The TV was and I'm like, what'd they take? And
he just looked at me, said, listen, they're alive. And
that's about it. They were alive. They are alive. It's
like living them with the trained beer. They live. They live,
but it's like they had a campfire in the middle
of the den floor that said I needed to get home,
(13:05):
and of course mother fell and went to the hospital
while I was at Coburger. Of course she did not
blaming her, but yes, it's a disruption for us. Can
you imagine what it is for them having to leave
their job everything and go live in an airbnb or
whatever for the duration. I remember doing that for Scott
Peterson and for Top Mom. With Top Mom, I had
(13:28):
the children with me, okay, and at that time I
was working also for ABC, which by the way, I
just started back with them again. And so they would
get into Disney for free. Of course, the bill for
eating at Disney, I'm like, can we bring your own food?
(13:49):
But that they would go to Disney with the granny
nannies while I would be in the courtroom. But the
other one we went to Jo d Arius. I lived there,
and that Scott Peterson. I didn't have children, And I
remember I lived in a hotel room with an army
of ants. Yes there was one wall. There had to
be two hundred of them on the wall. But they
(14:11):
never bothered me. So I just said, you know what,
I'm staying in this room with the ants.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Y'all stay on your side. I'll stay on my side.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yeah, But I'm just thinking about what they're going to
have to go through uprooting their lives.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And you know they've got friends and co workers that
they're going to be away from. They're going to be
away from their church, their neighbors, that support system. That's
a powerful thing to lose at a time where you
need them the most.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
How could a beautiful, young first grade teacher be stabbed
twenty times, including in the bat, allegedly die of suicide? Yes,
that was a medical examiner's official ruling after a closed
door meeting. He first named it homicide. Why what Happened
to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For
(15:09):
an in depth look at the facts, see What Happened
to Ellen?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
On Amazon?
Speaker 6 (15:16):
All proceeds to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
So who do you think is the leak? You're saying
the documentary is from family and friends, right, correct? Okay, Well,
I'll totally watch that. I usually don't watch any of
the mock docs because it's all and then there was
a time who was it? It must have been Oxygen,
I can't remember who it was. So we would like
you to do a sit down with Toplam Casey Anthony
(15:45):
and they said it'll rate okay, which you know is
like does not matter to me? And so I said, well,
can I ask her the questions I want? I want
to ask her, and can I control there will be
no editing because I didn't want it, you know, like
her answer to be polished up, or if she was
(16:07):
evasive for that not to show, or when I would
catch her obviously would catch her in a light. If
my follow ups would be allowed to get made air
and they couldn't guarantee it, I'm like, nope, I'm out.
This is something I'll.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Totally watch right, family members, friends, you know, that's all
that's involved with the people that were directly affected.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Can we talk about the leak now? It was in
Dateline special last month. I believe it was a special
investigation as they described it, and it was special, and
I mean that with no irony, no sarcasm, because they
had information no one. Let me just say, and you
(16:55):
can read what you want to into it. No one
had publicly discussed yet. I'm not so some people didn't
know about it, but it had not been discussed yet
at all. And their show, their episode was chalk full
of details that if people did know about it, they
had not discussed it on air. At all. I mean
(17:18):
it was a crap time. So now there is a
an investigation going on about the Dateline episode. Where did
they get the information? Mm?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Hm, what do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Well, here's the thing. It could be anybody from a
defense lawyer. I don't see the lead defense attorneys, believe
it or not, and I will certainly keep abuse on
them whenever possible. I don't see the defense lawyers leaking
it because it just made Coburger look even more guilty.
(17:55):
What was leaked like one of it. One piece of
it was another video from I think a neighbor's home
that catches a really good shot of the Eluntra, the
white Elantra, which his Elantra that night, another video. There
was just a lot of stuff, and that only made
(18:16):
their client look worse. So I do think it could
be somebody from the defense side that it's not as
invested in trying to get him acquitted. It could be peralegal.
It could be a messenger person. It could be the
person that xerox is things like hey, I can make
twenty grand off this. I make a copy of it
(18:38):
and send it to Dateline. Right. It could be anybody,
like I said, a courier, an assistant, a secretary. It
could be someone misguided that wants to you know, sway
public opinion ahead of time to poison the jury on
the state's team. I don't think would be one of
(19:01):
the lawyers because they could be thrown out of the
legal practice, thrown out of the bar. That would be
an ethical conduct, no matter how much you want to win.
Is it worth your bar license, is it worth your
law license? Because you know, that's like tearing the hens
off a potter or an artist. You just without a
(19:22):
law license, you can't practice. So I just don't think
it would be them, So that narrows it down to me.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I agree with you, And it seems like it would
be somebody that benefited.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
They're saying that it appears that it's someone currently or
formally associated with law enforcement or the prosecution team, and
I wonder about that. I think most likely because the
slant was making him look guilty, which I believe he
is guilty, so any most of the evidence is going
(19:54):
to make him look guilty. I love it when the
defense jumps up and goes objection that's inflammatory. I'm like,
it's inflammatory because he did it. He did it. It
hadn't done it, it wouldn't be inflammatory, right, So that's
I'm just anxious to find out. I don't know that
they will ever get to the bottom of it. It
(20:14):
just adds another layer of what dire jury instruction, I
mean jury selection, because now that's another thing you have said,
did you see the dateline piece? Are you sure you
didn't see it? Which will probably make a lot of
them go home and pull it up and watch it.
So that's just another thing to just another wrench and
the work, another reason for a delay, which I don't
(20:36):
think is going to happen. It's just another reason for
a request for delay. Videos, att records of his phone,
the content. Oh this was a big one, Cheryl, where he,
according to the Dateline special was research. Okay, here, we
did this the other day and you couldn't be there,
(20:57):
which I was very resentful about. How could you put
your real job ahead of coming on crime stories. I
don't know what's happened to you, but okay, this is
some of these are some of the searches. Listen to this,
he goes, and I'm starting to see a connection. I'm
sure they'll flush it out at trial. So when I
was out in Idaho. The last time I track beat
(21:20):
on a door over and over and over till finally
somebody came to it. Because I could hear something in there.
I knew they were hiding, and it was a guy.
I remember his tattoos. Nice guy. Coburger's front store neighbor
at the time, and he described when Coburger moved in,
the dad came over privately when he has a really
(21:41):
hard time making friends, could you have a playdate with him? Essentially,
so I think that guy invited him to a pool party.
At the pool party, okay, just putting this together. By
the dates, I believe that was July of the night,
talking off the top of my head, I don't have
anything in front of me. I think it was July
(22:02):
of the night. That night, he starts driving around the
victims home. So what does the pool party have to
do with the victims. The victims were not at the
pool party. On his phone, which was discussed on the
Dayline special, on his phone there were pictures and a
(22:26):
cell phone of girls, sorority girls in swimsuits. Okay, go
with it. If you go and look up those girls
online on social media, they are friends of the victims.
Now criminology student would know that you don't kill the
(22:49):
people you just met. And they're photos of you at
the pool party that will connect you to every one
of them. But if you take it a step further
to their online friends that night of the pool party,
with no other nexus that I know of, he starts
(23:10):
going stalking. The king wrote address, and those pictures are
in a cell phone. And in addition to those pictures,
which could be the connection, how he picked these victims
According to the state. In addition to that, there are
Damn and Google searches of non consensual sex when the
(23:31):
victim is asleep, drugged, passed out, incapacitated, which is what
happened to these victims. He thought they were asleep or
passed out. Get it?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Do I have to take out a billboard on third
Avenue for you? You and I early own talked about
you know, him stalking, that he had to have done that.
We knew that based on how many times she drove
around and around, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
And I think when you look at.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
How he entered the home and who he started with,
it does make the most sense that there's no reason
to go to the third floor.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Oh wait, and Another thing, the new hypothesis is that
along many people have thought kilik On saw This was
the intended target. Now they're thinking it's Manny Mokan and
apparently Xana. The new theory is Xana was not killed
in her sleep, that she ran for it and was
chased down the stairs, which is really really a scary scenario.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, I've never heard that, but you know, I always
thought Kayley was the target from the beginning, and that
the thing that kind of was in my head was
the new car because if you had been stalking them,
that car didn't fit. That car shouldn't have been there,
And to me, the killer would know somebody knew was
(25:02):
in there, whether it's male female, but he shouldn't have
known the connection of that car. But he went in anyway,
and then when he got to the third floor and
there was an additional person, he was not swayed at all.
But I think it also makes sense of why he
would leave the sheep behind, why he would be thrown off.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Dateline's theory, whether it is the state's theory or not,
is that they intended target was Amogan Maddie and at
some point Xana wakes up and starts running and he
chases her down the stairs. So I don't know where
they're getting that. Do they know about Xanna's blood being
(25:50):
found on the stairs. But another thing is, remember the
surviving room. One of the two surviving roommates became afraid
and ran in the midst of all this, ran from
her room to the other survivor's room and saw I
(26:10):
believe it was Xana lying on the floor and thought
she was passed out.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Drunk, right, And that same witness overheard, I'm here to
help you. So that doesn't sound like they're chasing somebody
down the steps. That sounds like she was up to
get her door dash and they saw each other.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
So it's all going to become clear. But right now
it's like we're just trying to read it in a
crystal ball. We're looking through a glass darkly. So but
we'll see, we'll see. But right now the search is
on for whoever whoever leaked that information. There absolutely was
(26:51):
a leak. As if the state needs another problem.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
We know from Delphi. When you start leaking things, it
damages both sides. I mean, I hate to tell you,
but it hurts everybody.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
It does, because you never know how the people that
ingest that information, how they're gonna take it. And you
know what I'm about talked out on Denny. You know
he has exhausted me. But I do know this, brace yourself.
Kanye is planning to show up in the Diddy courtroom
to support him. That is the last thing Sean Combs
(27:26):
needs is Kanye to show up with that half naked
wife in the courtroom and those titanium teeth. You know
that's a style decision. I'm not knocking it, but I
don't think it's gonna help Shawan Combs.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
It is not gonna help.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
No. Have you seen that video of him and the
dentist's office showing off as one hundred thousand dollars teeth
and he's just drooling. Well, you haven't been watching crime Stories.
I'll play it again for you on Monday.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Do it. I need to see that.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
To see it now, Cheryl, some of us have to
go to work.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I appreciate you, and I tell you we do need
to talk about Diddy, probably next week because the federal
agents has started to digging at him.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
What was the name of the alligator, Floyd Flat Creek? Floyd?
Speaker 3 (28:12):
May you rest in peace.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Amen. Amen, thank you friend. I love you, I love you.
Welcome to Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum and I
cannot wait to talk to nat to Grace this morning.
Y'all better hang on. I got a feeling she is
on fire.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Good morning, honey, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You got me right in the middle of let's see
cleaning the guinea pig. Canny put in a guinea out
feeding the grandmammy making up? What does he want? Listen
to this, John David Lynch. He's not spoiled. I made
him once and now he once in all the time.
Let's see what kind of English muffin is it? Hold
on just a second, wait a minute. It has to
(00:44):
be a certain kind Thomas original, the kind of course
that you have to slice yourself. Okay, that with ripped
up Pavarti cheese, Kroger Brand, Kroger Brand, and bacon on
a toasted English muffin, and then I wrap it up
at two paper towels in a certain way and put
(01:05):
a note beside it.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Really, that's fabulous.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
What poor woman's going to get him? And then we
have to have organic whole milk mixed with okay, what
is it? I have to look at the name ovaltine
and quick with a straw.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
And you know he's a working man. Oh, yes, that's
a good way to start.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
He has two jobs this summer, as does Lucy. He's
working at the hospital and he's working in the bio
I am so bragging now biomedical engineering program. And I
don't know exactly what he's doing, but it's regenerating DNA.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I know. Really, I just try to yell out a
Latin phrase every once in a while to seem relevant.
I know, nothing apparently good.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, I know they're both at the hospital, and then
she's at the law firm.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so per out of her. Forget about
legal research. She did a background search on.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Some well that will serve her.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Well, I'm like, good girl, Now you know how to
do it for every person you date from now on.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
You know, I got to tell you, it's been an
unusual week for me with not just these cases, but
in my town. As you know, we have a kind
of local legend hero for us called Flat Creek Floyd.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
He's an alligator and.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
He's one of those fun little things for our town
that whenever anybody spotted him, oh, they would take a
picture and then they'd put on social media where he
was sunbathing, and he would show up at the golf course,
he would show up across the street.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
We would see him, of course in the creek.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
You would saying, with a chicken in his mouth.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
It was one of those things that you know, the
kids in school, of course, loved it, and it was
a wave that it sounds kind of silly, but our
town really bonded over him. So if you saw him
and you would, you know, put on social media where
he was at. Other people would come to see him,
to take the picture, to talk about him. So you know,
(03:12):
there'd be strangers that you hadn't met yet and said, oh,
you know, look at him, he's gotten so much longer
or whatever. Well, sadly, he was hit by a car
last week and couldn't survive his injuries. And you know,
we really all were sad about him, because again, he's
somebody that I don't know. It sounds kind of silly
(03:33):
to people, but I'm just telling you we loved him,
and all the school kids loved him, and all of
our neighbors loved him.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
People were making t shirts to memorialize him, and then
there were some people that had some negative things to
say on social media about that.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
What is there to say?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
It's not like his family's getting unjustly enriched exactly. Well
then they posted that there's going to be a vigil tonight.
Well people just went crazy saying all have gone too far,
y'all a being so silly. But for us, it is
a way to just come together to say, hey, he
was a really cool part of this town. Got a
(04:09):
missing But I say that because I can remember every
now and then, even with you, with Keith, there's people
that have something to say, and you have spent your
life to make sure people remember him that he was
a baseball player, what he meant to Valdosta State, Your
(04:29):
town was affected. So when you think of somebody or
an animal that you love that you care about, that
ripple effect, Nancy is just crazy. And then to me
when you are trying so hard, because I think you
have done a beautiful job. When you wrote that first
(04:49):
book and I opened it, the first thing I saw
it was very simple, but it was so profound.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
It just said for Keith, I mean it just hit me.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Well, then you know you're thinking his mom and dad,
his sister, your mom and dad, your brother and.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Sister, the baseball team, the college.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Like this ripple effect when somebody's trying to say, oh,
you know, she's just using it for this show. You
lived it long before there was a show. I tell
people all the time, you think about it. She was
a young kid. They were both so young. It transformed
(05:32):
your life. You were never going to go to law school.
You weren't going to be a prosecutor. That wasn't even
on the table. Y'all were going to live in a
little small town. You were going to teach. He was
going to work construction. That was gonna be it. That
ain't what happened. And I think, you know, it's just powerful.
And I say all of this to say, there is
(05:55):
a four part docuseriies coming out called One Night Idaho
the College murders and Nancy. It's only about the people
that were involved and affected by the crime.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It's families, friends and roommates. That's it.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
There's no expert weighing in, there's no reporter weighing in.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It's just those people.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And I think that to me, whether it's Flat Creek,
Floyd or Keith or these poor students, that to me
is what's critical.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
The people that loved them and knew them and understood.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And I just want to say again publicly to you,
I think the way you have lived your life and
made sure all of us knew Keith, knew what happened,
and most importantly know how you're using what happened to you.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, that was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I never even thought about it. I mean, I know
I would never have gone to law school if it
had not been for Keith what happened to him, That
would never have happened.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
But you know, I don't I don't know how to
put words to what you said.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
It wasn't a plan. It just kind of evolved. It
just kind of all happened, if that makes any sense.
And you know, for years and years I never talked,
I never spoke to anyone about what happened to Keith.
When I was in the District Attorney's office. It was
only till the very very end that I told my
(07:46):
best friends in the office about Keith. They did not know,
and I don't know why I didn't, but I didn't.
And I remember the time I ever talked about it,
years had passed. I was already at court.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
TV, and no, I was already going I was already
at Court TV and had been at Court TV, and
they knew about it, but I never suckered it publicly
until a friend that you know, Dean They was a
booker at that time, Larry King. He got me to
(08:26):
talk about it on Larry King and tell what happened,
to tell the story. And I remember I was so
lumixed that he asked me when it happened and I
said August sixth, and I couldn't remember the year, and
I got the year wrong, and of course people looked
up online and then attacked me.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
We're not getting the year right. I don't know what
because so crazy.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
And That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I mean, people have these opinions and they are going
to research something like you made that up, and they
don't understand trauma. I mean, they don't get it and
they don't care. I mean, they want to make fun
that we are sad about an alligator. They want to
make fun that two roommates survived.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
How could that be? They had to be involved somehow,
you know, you know.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
The thing about an alligator near our house. We how
the well, some people will call it a swamp. I
prefer to call it a creek and it's a turtle
hangout and there's one spot in the area turtle crossing.
One got run over and I'm like and did like
you couldn't. He was going too fast for you.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
You had to run over the And it's a turtle
that for generations have crossed right there in the road
at that spot forever, and you had.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
To run over it. I believed it on a yankee,
but that's it. Just kidding. But yes, I get it.
I get it. I completely get it, which reminds me
I'm speed reading. I never have time to actually read
a book, which is all I did before, you know,
I got into actually TV. I still had time to
(10:09):
do it at night when I was a prosecutor. But
TV is at night too, so that kind of And
then the children came. But my sister started a book
and I'm trying to read as fast as she does.
Swamp Landy. Yes, speaking of gators, I don't know what
happens in them, but it's awesome. Takes place at a
Gator theme park. It's it's great so far. Okay, now
(10:29):
what are we talking about? Coburger? Is that where we're going?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
We're going to talk about coburger.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Okay, hit me that way about the docu series, I
haven't is that out because I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
No, it's not out. It comes out July eleventh. And
that's what I wanted to ask you, was a prosecutor.
I think coming out before the August eleventh trial is brilliant.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Let's set the tone.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
They should be able to tell their story without all
these rumors.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I agree, because it's never going to be told in
court because, as you know, you have to be very wily,
and I mean that in a good way to get
evidence about who the victim was in court. Now, I
found a way. This was the way I would do it.
I would take a picture, get a picture of the
victim if I could, in life, and find a way
(11:21):
to connect it to the forensic evidence. And that way,
the jury would get to see the victim in life
and be able to identify with the victim. It's just
not a name on an autopsy report. It's just not
a name in an indictment. And of course, whenever I could,
of course there were times I couldn't. I would have victims'
(11:44):
families there. That is so important, and I guarantee you
the victims in the Idaho case are going to be
front and center, and they're going to great sacrifice to
be there. It's some seven hour drive for some of them.
One way, they're gonna have to leave their jobs and
(12:04):
live in Boise for the duration. I mean, you know,
when we went to Murdoch or we went to Idaho,
that was a very big disruption in my family life
because of the children, right, I mean leaving them alone
(12:25):
with David. I mean, they're they're gonna live. Like I
can't told you what happened. I came home from Coburger
and it looked like, I said, the house has been ransacked.
What did they take? Did they take the TV? Okay,
number one, let's start with that, because I gotta have
Amazon Prime Video to see on my murder shows at night.
(12:45):
The TV was and I'm like, what'd they take? And
he just looked at me, said, listen, they're alive. And
that's about it. They were alive. They are alive. It's
like living them with the trained beer. They live. They live,
but it's like they had a campfire in the middle
of the den floor that said I needed to get home,
(13:05):
and of course mother fell and went to the hospital
while I was at Coburger. Of course she did not
blaming her, but yes, it's a disruption for us. Can
you imagine what it is for them having to leave
their job everything and go live in an airbnb or
whatever for the duration. I remember doing that for Scott
Peterson and for Top Mom. With Top Mom, I had
(13:28):
the children with me, okay, and at that time I
was working also for ABC, which by the way, I
just started back with them again. And so they would
get into Disney for free. Of course, the bill for
eating at Disney, I'm like, can we bring your own food?
(13:49):
But that they would go to Disney with the granny
nannies while I would be in the courtroom. But the
other one we went to Jo d Arius. I lived there,
and that Scott Peterson. I didn't have children, And I
remember I lived in a hotel room with an army
of ants. Yes there was one wall. There had to
be two hundred of them on the wall. But they
(14:11):
never bothered me. So I just said, you know what,
I'm staying in this room with the ants.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Y'all stay on your side. I'll stay on my side.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yeah, But I'm just thinking about what they're going to
have to go through uprooting their lives.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And you know they've got friends and co workers that
they're going to be away from. They're going to be
away from their church, their neighbors, that support system. That's
a powerful thing to lose at a time where you
need them the most.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
How could a beautiful, young first grade teacher be stabbed
twenty times, including in the bat, allegedly die of suicide? Yes,
that was a medical examiner's official ruling after a closed
door meeting. He first named it homicide. Why what Happened
to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice. For
(15:09):
an in depth look at the facts, see What Happened
to Ellen?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
On Amazon?
Speaker 6 (15:16):
All proceeds to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
So who do you think is the leak? You're saying
the documentary is from family and friends, right, correct? Okay, Well,
I'll totally watch that. I usually don't watch any of
the mock docs because it's all and then there was
a time who was it? It must have been Oxygen,
I can't remember who it was. So we would like
you to do a sit down with Toplam Casey Anthony
(15:45):
and they said it'll rate okay, which you know is
like does not matter to me? And so I said, well,
can I ask her the questions I want? I want
to ask her, and can I control there will be
no editing because I didn't want it, you know, like
her answer to be polished up, or if she was
(16:07):
evasive for that not to show, or when I would
catch her obviously would catch her in a light. If
my follow ups would be allowed to get made air
and they couldn't guarantee it, I'm like, nope, I'm out.
This is something I'll.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Totally watch right, family members, friends, you know, that's all
that's involved with the people that were directly affected.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Can we talk about the leak now? It was in
Dateline special last month. I believe it was a special
investigation as they described it, and it was special, and
I mean that with no irony, no sarcasm, because they
had information no one. Let me just say, and you
(16:55):
can read what you want to into it. No one
had publicly discussed yet. I'm not so some people didn't
know about it, but it had not been discussed yet
at all. And their show, their episode was chalk full
of details that if people did know about it, they
had not discussed it on air. At all. I mean
(17:18):
it was a crap time. So now there is a
an investigation going on about the Dateline episode. Where did
they get the information? Mm?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Hm, what do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Well, here's the thing. It could be anybody from a
defense lawyer. I don't see the lead defense attorneys, believe
it or not, and I will certainly keep abuse on
them whenever possible. I don't see the defense lawyers leaking
it because it just made Coburger look even more guilty.
(17:55):
What was leaked like one of it. One piece of
it was another video from I think a neighbor's home
that catches a really good shot of the Eluntra, the
white Elantra, which his Elantra that night, another video. There
was just a lot of stuff, and that only made
(18:16):
their client look worse. So I do think it could
be somebody from the defense side that it's not as
invested in trying to get him acquitted. It could be peralegal.
It could be a messenger person. It could be the
person that xerox is things like hey, I can make
twenty grand off this. I make a copy of it
(18:38):
and send it to Dateline. Right. It could be anybody,
like I said, a courier, an assistant, a secretary. It
could be someone misguided that wants to you know, sway
public opinion ahead of time to poison the jury on
the state's team. I don't think would be one of
(19:01):
the lawyers because they could be thrown out of the
legal practice, thrown out of the bar. That would be
an ethical conduct, no matter how much you want to win.
Is it worth your bar license, is it worth your
law license? Because you know, that's like tearing the hens
off a potter or an artist. You just without a
(19:22):
law license, you can't practice. So I just don't think
it would be them, So that narrows it down to me.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I agree with you, And it seems like it would
be somebody that benefited.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
They're saying that it appears that it's someone currently or
formally associated with law enforcement or the prosecution team, and
I wonder about that. I think most likely because the
slant was making him look guilty, which I believe he
is guilty, so any most of the evidence is going
(19:54):
to make him look guilty. I love it when the
defense jumps up and goes objection that's inflammatory. I'm like,
it's inflammatory because he did it. He did it. It
hadn't done it, it wouldn't be inflammatory, right, So that's
I'm just anxious to find out. I don't know that
they will ever get to the bottom of it. It
(20:14):
just adds another layer of what dire jury instruction, I
mean jury selection, because now that's another thing you have said,
did you see the dateline piece? Are you sure you
didn't see it? Which will probably make a lot of
them go home and pull it up and watch it.
So that's just another thing to just another wrench and
the work, another reason for a delay, which I don't
(20:36):
think is going to happen. It's just another reason for
a request for delay. Videos, att records of his phone,
the content. Oh this was a big one, Cheryl, where he,
according to the Dateline special was research. Okay, here, we
did this the other day and you couldn't be there,
(20:57):
which I was very resentful about. How could you put
your real job ahead of coming on crime stories. I
don't know what's happened to you, but okay, this is
some of these are some of the searches. Listen to this,
he goes, and I'm starting to see a connection. I'm
sure they'll flush it out at trial. So when I
was out in Idaho. The last time I track beat
(21:20):
on a door over and over and over till finally
somebody came to it. Because I could hear something in there.
I knew they were hiding, and it was a guy.
I remember his tattoos. Nice guy. Coburger's front store neighbor
at the time, and he described when Coburger moved in,
the dad came over privately when he has a really
(21:41):
hard time making friends, could you have a playdate with him? Essentially,
so I think that guy invited him to a pool party.
At the pool party, okay, just putting this together. By
the dates, I believe that was July of the night,
talking off the top of my head, I don't have
anything in front of me. I think it was July
(22:02):
of the night. That night, he starts driving around the
victims home. So what does the pool party have to
do with the victims. The victims were not at the
pool party. On his phone, which was discussed on the
Dayline special, on his phone there were pictures and a
(22:26):
cell phone of girls, sorority girls in swimsuits. Okay, go
with it. If you go and look up those girls
online on social media, they are friends of the victims.
Now criminology student would know that you don't kill the
(22:49):
people you just met. And they're photos of you at
the pool party that will connect you to every one
of them. But if you take it a step further
to their online friends that night of the pool party,
with no other nexus that I know of, he starts
(23:10):
going stalking. The king wrote address, and those pictures are
in a cell phone. And in addition to those pictures,
which could be the connection, how he picked these victims
According to the state. In addition to that, there are
Damn and Google searches of non consensual sex when the
(23:31):
victim is asleep, drugged, passed out, incapacitated, which is what
happened to these victims. He thought they were asleep or
passed out. Get it?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Do I have to take out a billboard on third
Avenue for you? You and I early own talked about
you know, him stalking, that he had to have done that.
We knew that based on how many times she drove
around and around, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
And I think when you look at.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
How he entered the home and who he started with,
it does make the most sense that there's no reason
to go to the third floor.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Oh wait, and Another thing, the new hypothesis is that
along many people have thought kilik On saw This was
the intended target. Now they're thinking it's Manny Mokan and
apparently Xana. The new theory is Xana was not killed
in her sleep, that she ran for it and was
chased down the stairs, which is really really a scary scenario.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, I've never heard that, but you know, I always
thought Kayley was the target from the beginning, and that
the thing that kind of was in my head was
the new car because if you had been stalking them,
that car didn't fit. That car shouldn't have been there,
And to me, the killer would know somebody knew was
(25:02):
in there, whether it's male female, but he shouldn't have
known the connection of that car. But he went in anyway,
and then when he got to the third floor and
there was an additional person, he was not swayed at all.
But I think it also makes sense of why he
would leave the sheep behind, why he would be thrown off.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Dateline's theory, whether it is the state's theory or not,
is that they intended target was Amogan Maddie and at
some point Xana wakes up and starts running and he
chases her down the stairs. So I don't know where
they're getting that. Do they know about Xanna's blood being
(25:50):
found on the stairs. But another thing is, remember the
surviving room. One of the two surviving roommates became afraid
and ran in the midst of all this, ran from
her room to the other survivor's room and saw I
(26:10):
believe it was Xana lying on the floor and thought
she was passed out.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Drunk, right, And that same witness overheard, I'm here to
help you. So that doesn't sound like they're chasing somebody
down the steps. That sounds like she was up to
get her door dash and they saw each other.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
So it's all going to become clear. But right now
it's like we're just trying to read it in a
crystal ball. We're looking through a glass darkly. So but
we'll see, we'll see. But right now the search is
on for whoever whoever leaked that information. There absolutely was
(26:51):
a leak. As if the state needs another problem.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
We know from Delphi. When you start leaking things, it
damages both sides. I mean, I hate to tell you,
but it hurts everybody.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
It does, because you never know how the people that
ingest that information, how they're gonna take it. And you
know what I'm about talked out on Denny. You know
he has exhausted me. But I do know this, brace yourself.
Kanye is planning to show up in the Diddy courtroom
to support him. That is the last thing Sean Combs
(27:26):
needs is Kanye to show up with that half naked
wife in the courtroom and those titanium teeth. You know
that's a style decision. I'm not knocking it, but I
don't think it's gonna help Shawan Combs.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
It is not gonna help.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
No. Have you seen that video of him and the
dentist's office showing off as one hundred thousand dollars teeth
and he's just drooling. Well, you haven't been watching crime Stories.
I'll play it again for you on Monday.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Do it. I need to see that.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
To see it now, Cheryl, some of us have to
go to work.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I appreciate you, and I tell you we do need
to talk about Diddy, probably next week because the federal
agents has started to digging at him.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
What was the name of the alligator, Floyd Flat Creek? Floyd?
Speaker 3 (28:12):
May you rest in peace.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Amen. Amen, thank you friend. I love you, I love you.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.