October 10, 2025 • 35 mins
In this week's Crime Roundup, Sheryl McCollum and Joshua Schiffer discuss one of the most urgent and misunderstood frontiers in criminal law: who owns your identity in the age of AI? From celebrities digitally resurrected without consent to student-athletes blocked from profiting off their own names, Sheryl and Joshua expose the legal chaos surrounding name, image, and likeness (NIL). They share real cases involving image theft, fraud, and stalking to show just how deep this rabbit hole goes, including how NIL rights intersect with immigration law, gambling, and even organized crime. Whether it’s a deepfake of Robin Williams or a repurposed viral video, the message is clear: your face, your voice, and your story... they’re assets. And they’re up for grabs.
Highlights:
- (0:00) Welcome to Crime Roundup with Sheryl McCollum and Joshua Schiffer
- (1:00) The power of presence: from Michael Jackson to Jennifer Aniston
- (3:30) Robin Williams’ image and the dangers of AI-generated deepfakes
- (5:30) What is NIL, and why it matters in crime, sports, and identity
- (9:00) Real-world image theft: fraud, fake agents, and misused images in advertising
- (10:45) When student visas block NIL deals
- (12:00) Who owns the school logos in NIL endorsements?
- (14:30) Why you cannot always use your own sports photos
- (17:00) Free speech vs. image rights: parody, politics, and the First Amendment
- (18:30) Public figures and stalking: where the law draws the line
- (24:45) Illegal gambling, NIL, and the risk of game-fixing
- (29:30) Protecting yourself in the digital age
- (34:45) This week’s message: “The capacity for love knows no bounds.”
About the Hosts
Joshua Schiffer is a veteran trial attorney and one of the Southeast’s most respected legal voices. He is a founding partner at ChancoSchiffer P.C., where he has litigated high-stakes criminal, civil rights, and personal injury cases for over two decades. Known for his bold courtroom presence and ability to clearly explain complex legal issues, Schiffer is a frequent media contributor and a fearless advocate for accountability.
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award-winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnline, a forensic and crime scene expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. She is the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a national collaboration that advances techniques for solving cold cases and assists families and law enforcement with unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnappings.
🎧 Want more from Sheryl?
Catch her every week on the Zone 7 podcast, where she hosts the main series on Wednesdays, Pathology with Dr. Priya on Mondays, and Crime Roundup each Friday alongside Joshua Schiffer.
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Email coldcase2004@gmail.com
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- Joshua on X and Instagram: @lawyerschiff
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Y'all welcome to crime around up. Do we have a
topic today? It ain't what you're thinking, So just get ready,
y'all gonna get educated by the one and only Joshua
Schiff Or how are you doing, honeymoon?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
They're better only be one of me because I take
up a lot of space and I'm loud and I
make a lot of heat.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Parents, there is only one of you, because you know
the Good Lord was showing off.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Baby. All of creation is unique and we should love
every little bit of it. Amen, it is good to
be here. Yeah, and I tell you you y'all are
in for a treat. Name, image and likeness is a
little weird.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Matt, hold on, don't get don't get ahead of me.
Don't get ahead of me. I gotta I got this up.
You know I'm Southern. Y'all forget he said that, because
here's what I wanted to tell you, Joshua. My mother,
who was a genius in every sense of the word,
and she was a teacher, school teacher. She had the
(01:10):
unique ability to see somebody one time, whether it was
a concert, movie, whatever, and even if it was a
whole cast of people, could pinpoint one person and say
they are going to be a star. And she was right.
When we were little and Michael Jackson was a little kid,
(01:32):
all those brothers around him, she pointed to that child
and said, he is going to be a star. She
did it over and over and over. We were at
some little mountain festival in the middle of nowhere, and
this girl was singing, and she turned right to us
and said, y'all pay attention to her name. She's going
(01:52):
to be a huge star. Turned out to be the juds,
over and over and over. So I used to joke
with her because when Friends first came out, she pointed
to Jennifer Anderston, even though all these other people were there.
She said that one is going to be in the movies.
So I used to tell her, I wish I could
(02:14):
buy stock in people, because you would make me rich man.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Oh, you're too so, And I tell you, though you're
right about some people just have whatever that thing is.
It reminds me of Bill Clinton. Was a guy walked
into a room. You couldn't not stare at him, Jarry,
he couldn't ignore Johnny Cochran. You know, Johnny Cochran walked
into a room. It didn't matter if you didn't know
who he was. The presence like it infiltrate. It was
(02:44):
like it was like a gas bomb explosion and everybody
was just breathing in the fumes that Johnny Cochrane and
his charisma was in that room.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And I'm going to tell you something, if you didn't
know who he was, you would find yourself asking other
people who is that because you instinctively knew he was somebody.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yep. And that's just a gift that some people. That's
part of the makeup. You know, everybody's got, uh some
gifts and some decreations. Is not fair. As I tell people,
God blessed me with really strong teeth. I have excellent teeth,
the eyes and the hair. That there was there was
a trade off somewhere, there was when they were building
(03:25):
the character sheet. But uh no, the star thing's important.
And that's why I kind of was tickled when we
were talking about what to talk about this week and
and it was it was that Robin Williams article. And
for those of y'all that that that don't know about this.
So I I on social media. I do a little
bit of this and net but really Twitter is just
(03:45):
the easiest for me and I know lots of people
don't like it, and I don't like it at times
as well. It is a sewer. It is absolutely the
most unfiltered awfulness of America. But it's also the source
for a bunch of really legitimate primary sources. So you
put up with the garbage to get the good stuff.
And there was this great post about Robin Williams's daughter
(04:08):
and how bereft she was and how she felt just
awful because her father, who is one of the most
legendary comedians ever. If you have not laughed at Robin
Williams's joke show special movie, I don't know what's wrong
with you. He was as funny as you get. And
they are using his image and this AI and this
(04:31):
is a gentleman that very sadly killed himself. Just think
about that. To wake up one day and see your
loved one, your person who you already share with the
whole world, and their appearance is false. It's a fraud.
(04:55):
It's a trick, and it's a trick that hold on
anybody can pull. I can sit right here, Cheryl, and
bring up an image generator and take a picture, you
feed it in and have all kinds of media.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
It's scary. I mean it's it's great. I think it's
going to help a lot. I think people are going
to be able to do some wonderful things. That anything
that can be used can be misused.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Absolutely, And this name, image, likeness is the term that
the marketplace kind of came up with to talk about
how we're going to regulate you, the picture of you
and what rights you have to your name, your image,
and your likeness. Now, of course, because lawyers got involved,
(05:44):
we had to formalize it. And really this comes into
play that everybody knows about is in the NCAA and
these college kids because the name, image and likeness is
an asset they have that dramatically increases in value of
the moment they earn their way onto a college sports team.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I mean, let's be honest, Caitlin Clark. Most people can't
name five other female basketball players at the collegiate level,
but they knew her.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And that's because she worked really hard.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Because she worked really hard, and she was phenomenal from
the logo.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
And you own you, I own me, I own Josh Shiffer,
I look like Josh? What I look like? I got
to name Josh Shiffer, even though I do know a
couple of the other Josh Schiffer's out there. One of
them was a very interesting doctor. But I have rights
of that, and those rights obviously, when you have a right,
it can be abused and broken. That's kind of the
(06:48):
definition of a right, as if it's something that someone
could take away or impinge. And what happens with your
image and how that's used has blown up into this
job litigation universe that we're going to see more of
in true crime because what's happening now is the value
(07:09):
of the name, image, and likeness of stakeholders in the
justice system. That name, image, and likeness increased in value
due to their exposure. And I don't care if it's
a criminal who got locked up and sent to prison
for the rest of their life. I don't care if
it's a victim. I don't care if it's a witness,
I don't care if it's a judge. Their name, image,
(07:30):
and likeness due to their participation in public justice has
increased in value somewhere. And what are we going to
do about that? Because I need to make sure and
our nation needs to make sure that we get the
news and information that the First Amendment promises us. But
(07:51):
there's got to be lines where I should not be
able to or there should be some remedy if I
take someone's image and misappropriate ate it and use it
for negative things. But with the anonymousness of the internet,
good luck, And.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
It's one of those things, how do you stop it? Like,
once it's out there and people have shared it four
hundred and ninety seven billion times, it's out there forever.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
If it happened on the Internet, someone's going to read
it in court one day. And that's literally what we
telp do. Not put it on an email unless you
want to read it. Oh, Carrie, you said it's confidential.
I email lots of confidential things. I've got confidential relationships
by the bucket load. Every one of them is only
as strong as the weakest link, which is someone getting
(08:39):
a picture of my email, someone breaking in a court order.
There's so many ways that if it's digital, it's getting
out there. And I got an expert witness that I
can pay to basically undo or redo anything on the
Internet in exchange for money. So just because you thought
it was erased, whatever, probably wasn't.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
And you know, with this name in likeness. For me,
I always think of athletes at the collegiate level. I
never really thought about movie stars or singers. But you know,
there's a lot of fraud associated with it. So you
may think, hey, I'm getting an autograph picture, I'm getting
(09:18):
the real T shirt, or some booster is offering you
money to come to their school, only to find out
that person was a shyster. Wasn't true.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Absolutely, there's the fraud of some of the products and
the show ups and people acting as a fake agent
or a fixer or whatever, and then there is just
outright theft. We just concluded a case involving several celebrities
that involved their name, image and likeness in some advertising
(09:50):
where some local small businesses, some of which sold some
socially interesting items, went online and drafted some new ad
copy and they'd used some pictures, and interestingly enough, some
of those pictures got tracked back to some celebrity body parts.
(10:10):
And that's illegal. You stole my celebrity client's image to
make money. Now, it's fine if I've paid you a
license fee and you know you're using my image to
make money in advertising, But what happens if you just
steal it just use it, and ours was not that
(10:32):
big an issue, but we of course learned about a
bunch of others where literally some the more famous you are,
the more you are being robbed every day by people
using your name, image and likeness and you can't do
squat about it.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And you know, I just learned, because after I was
talking to you, I became so fascinated. I even learned
that there are students on certain visas that can't participate
because the law won't allow them. The immigration law won't
allow them. Oh yes, and I'm thinking, so now there
could be this student that is the biggest soccer star,
(11:09):
biggest volleyball player, best swimmer that a college has ever had,
maybe over an Olympic track, but they can't earn any money.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
It's very interesting when we get into this, especially the
foreign visitors, because obviously they are subject potentially to rules
and laws from their home country that could regulate their
behavior here even though they're present in the United States,
whereas in the US they'd have the freedom to contract.
(11:39):
And we're seeing that a lot in some of these
or in the these kids at schools where the name,
image likeness deal is paying them unbelievable amounts of money.
So that's obviously going to impact the whole program around them,
both the sports program and the educational program. It's a
very impactful process. But you're right, then there's the unfairness of, well,
(12:06):
this kid gets and that kid doesn't because of the
nature of how they got here. You also have the
rights of the university. So Cheryl is the absolute world
champion underwater basket weaver. She is the most famous underwater
basket weaver in the NCAA. There has never been any
very better. And so she enrolls at Auburn because it
(12:30):
is the best underwater basket weaving department and crave so eagle.
And so what ends up happening is Cheryl gets approached
by Josh's Basketry Express and says, Cheryl, you're the You're
the picture of who we want. We love you, we
need you, our clients love you. You're gonna get up
(12:51):
here and you're going to talk about how Shift for
Brand basketry is the best baskets to soar your nuts
and berries and anybody could ever imagine they are handcrafted,
dark tis no beautiful baskets, Cheryl, we want to and
Cheryl you're gonna get money, and Cheryl goes, awesome, I
love money, except she says it with that great Southern drawl.
And then Cheryl shows up wearing her underwater basket. We've
(13:12):
even custom made bikini that is emblazoned with Auburn. What
about Auburn's name image likeness? And now Cheryl has promised
Josh and been paid that she's gonna appear, But what
(13:32):
about Auburn? Is Cheryl allowed to share her Auburn uniform
or does part of her agreement prevent her from being
able to be pictured in a school licensed uniform? Don't
tell me. Schools don't make big money selling selling that logo,
and and it just it when you get down in
(13:54):
the and the and the balls rolling and you're picking
up all the moss and everything and seeing what else
attaches name imag Enlighteness starts off being real easy. Yeah,
you got to pay me to make me to use
my picture, but very quickly gets complicated. You also have
to deal with the rights of broadcasters or other people's media.
If it's a photographer from a big photography agency, you
(14:18):
just can't use their picture even though they took it
of you playing a game. On at this stadium. You
can't just take that photographer's picture. That's that's how copyright
fits it.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Well, Josh, I have another question that I have no
idea the answer, obviously, and I've never thought about it before.
You know, those collection cars, the baseball cards, football cards.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Love love love. I mean, I've had baseball cards from
the junk wax era. I got some classics. I did
Magic the Gathering from ninety four to ninety eight in college.
I then thankfully put them down, but missed the billion
dollar industry that has come up in the last few
years with these sports cards. Their prices have gone nuts
with these custom cards and cutouts. And you know, I've
(15:14):
got a bunch of lawyer friends that spend huge bucks
on the and they get graded. It's a whole yeah,
so yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
It's the whole thing. Yeah. My son, Hug, I mean
he has got a part time gig basically doing it,
and there's so much money. But I've never thought about
the cards that have the action shots from the games.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Oh, how does that happen?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I mean you're talking about NBC or somebody licensing.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And in fact I know this because I just do. Uh,
there are certain cards where you will not see a
uniform name where they have airbrushed and removed the uniform.
There are some card companies that can only print this
kind of name, image, and like, but then may have
individual contracts with players that allow more. Then your name, image,
(16:05):
and likeness may be subject to like master sales contracts.
Like if you're a member of a union, which every NFL, NBA,
a major, they're all union. Every one of them's got you,
and that a union protects things like their name, image
and likeness and has the ability to license it. Because
(16:26):
if you're your product of playing a sport gets licensed
to broadcasters, so they have rights to certain parts of
your image, but can't do other things with it. Like
if I have the right to your image because I'm
broadcasting your game, can I then use your image and
sell it to the car dealer. No, but you've given
(16:48):
me the ability to broadcast your image, but there's limits
on it. I can't use your image for X, Y
and Z. Typically there's going to be some sort of
commercial band where I'm not allowed to use your image
for anything commercial. And that's really where a lot of
the enforcement comes in, because you have to protect freedom
of speech. I have the ability to take a picture
(17:08):
of my favorite sports star or least favorite and make
an homage or a parody of it, both of which
are sacro saying American values Under the First Amendment, parody
is the lifeblood of the revolution that we had against
the British. Without parity and political commentary, we're doomed. Do
(17:33):
I have to pay to license it? Well?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
No, you're the president, So like a political cartoon, no issue.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Generally no, because the way our current system is set up.
And that's actually something we're going to get a lot
of discussion about as the current administration, and there's a
legal movement wants to change how some of our First
Amendment laws work because there are some just horrifying abuses
out there. And the eminal case which involves that groups
(18:04):
is interesting as Penthouse Jerry Folwell, New York Time that
comes out in the line of cases say this, how
famous are you? Are you a public figure? Are you newsworthy?
Is there a reason that people would have a genuine,
legitimate public safety, public interest to share your Yeah, you're
not going to have a lot of protection there. So
(18:26):
the moment you become a politician, you lose a lot
of your ability to sue people using your image.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Now I have to get you to explain something to
me because I had a stalker and when I tried
to get some things put into place to stop this person,
I was told, well, you're a public figure, you don't
have any protection. And I'm like, first of all, I
(18:55):
can go right down to my hometown grocery store. Nobody
knows who I am. I am you know Carol Burnett,
who everybody knows. Like I was so stunned by that,
And it seems like the opposite should be true.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's to a lot of people. It's a counterintuitive analysis
because you don't control necessarily whether you are a public
figure or newsworthy or not. And what happens in every
true crime case is as soon as you get arrested
for a crime in your community and are accused of
a crime, hey, you're basically a newsworthy individual, right, So
(19:34):
you can't sue the news for putting up your mugshot.
There's a reason we get a mugshot so that we
can identify people in our community that have been accute
of crimes. But at the same time, what happens if
I take your mugshot and start trying to make money
off of it, you know, by hosting a website that
says you want to know who got arrested, check this
out at Cheryl. And there's been litigation on that where
(19:56):
Georgia specifically, we had a rash of those and we
had to create a whole off and pass a law
that gives people more rights while also protecting the legitimate
interests of the press. And Cheryl, I love you. You
are a public figure. You hold yourself out in social
media and traditional media as an expert in certain things
(20:17):
you've published, You've a broadcast. It would be a very
interesting bit of litigation for you to claim as part
of a case I am not a public figure, just
the same way that I realized that I do the
same thing. I'm a lawyer. I hold myself out for business.
(20:39):
I do tons of media. But there's no line like
there wasn't a day June seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, Josh
Siffer ceased being a private person and is now public.
That's not how it works, and your status can change.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
And listen, I didn't really disagree. I mean, there are
certain sentence Well, of course I'm recognized, there's no question.
But to me, in my mind, a public figure is
somebody that the majority of people would know who they were.
And I just felt like, you're gonna give me zero
(21:18):
help because I'm this public figure that again, there are
people in my neighborhood don't know who I am, except hunting.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Caroline's mom, Karen Reid could walk up to my mother
and ask her for the weather, and my mother would
not have any idea. Man, there are people that my
daughter probably could recognize a thousand yards away, and to
her cohort are just legends.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Well, shoot, David, I'd never heard of the cat.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That's right, That's right.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Dude's definitely a public figure.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I had no clue he was as famous as he
apparently was.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
But don't you think those people, because of any celebrity
they may have, should actually have more protection. You've got
people breaking into Madonna's house, breaking into all these famous
people houses over and over and over, and it just
blows my mind.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
The danger is real. The hardest part and what I
hear from a lot of people when your celebrity has
faded and you don't necessarily have the in order that
you don't necessarily have the income and assets of a celebrity,
yet you are prominent. And that's where you get the
people who literally are famous and don't have the ways
(22:40):
that wealthy, famous people have to protect themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Now that's scary, and that sounds like Madonna.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Guess what she I understand probably has a very expensive
security twenty four hours a day as part of the
exchange she made for being one of the world's great entertainers.
Don't feel bad for her, who do? I feel bad
for the people that are just thrust into the public
through no choice of their own, or have tried to
(23:11):
leave the public. Which that's always interesting when we talk
about the tabloids, because there's those stars that we just
see constantly and everybody goes, oh, they're famous. That's whose
people are interested. Well, it's that and the fact that
the other stars when they don't want to be seen.
You don't see Tom Hanks in the papers. You don't
see people when they want to be quiet.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Well, like Jody Foster, she faded for her own protection
and went to Yale.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Stood back, went went and that is possible. It's one
of the reasons that I get all flacky when some
of these celebrities complain about the burdens of I get it,
there are some burdens of celebrity. You also reap what
you sew. And if you're going to go out to
the clubs and wear the clothes and do the things
and hang out and generate all the pr as two
(23:59):
ends of that pr So don't complain when people are
also like, look at this unflattering photo of this person
who begs photographers to follow them around, totally unlike what
happened like Princess Diana, where oh yeah, woman harangued, harassed, stalked,
and you know, abused by an over aggressive psychotic press
(24:23):
that literally killed her depending on whether you believe the
conspiracy theories or not, but regardless, she's dead and photographers
played a large role in that. But then I have
a right to know what's going on with the Royalty
of Britain in the United States press because guess what
(24:43):
I'm interested in.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay, one last question about name, image and likeness. Illegal
gambling you're all for in students millions of dollars? Well,
you think they're not going to bet and possibly throw
a game. You think they're not gonna say, Okay, well
there's gonna be maybe something I can design so that
(25:10):
we go to game seven.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Notice how we have a very public prosecution of gambling
and insider fixing, like once a generation, like there's the
Black Sox, there's Pete Rose, there was those baseball players
that got known. How every once in a while we'll
stand up and we'll say, hey, we're gonna keep sports.
Sports are not clean. Sports are not clean. Betting on
(25:33):
sports is fix a bull because it's people. Sumo, which
is the legendary, most famous sports export from Japan, turned
out has been fixed for the entire existence basically of
sumo because the way the matches are set up, after
you've achieved enough victories, you have a good incentive to
(25:56):
start throwing throwing matches to younger people who really need
that last win or two, and they do the statistical
analysis and find out, wow, these really amazing wrestlers all
happen to lose during the last couple of days against
these people, and then you've got college athletics. Betting on
(26:19):
college athletics has never been a bigger business. Georgia is
fighting right now whether or how we're going to do
college betting. Robin Hood, the giant brokerage now basically has
sports betting, they just call it something like derivative contracts
or something like that. It's sports betting, but it's not
sports bet That's how a lot of the available betting
(26:41):
like companies exist in no betting communities because you're not
actually betting on sports, you're betting on a fantasy game.
And that's one of the various ways lawyers have figured
out how to end around what bookies did, and that's
really who's losing our bookies. Your local bar probably has
(27:05):
a few fewer guys selling the football card than they
did twenty years ago. But now you've given an incentive
to some of these players who are flush with cash,
who are jealous and envious of others' wealth, and they
see how much money can be made in the temptations
of crookery, which, let's just be facefects, it's hard being
(27:29):
a poor kid, and I don't know many kids that
aren't poor or feel they are poor, because feeling struggle
is part of being that age, and that envy manifests.
And then we're going to end up with sports fixing,
which already exists, and then you can add some organized
(27:49):
crime to it, and it spins out of control. Wildly.
But yeah, that name, image and likeness in illegal gambling
does create some perverse incentives. But really the impact on
gambling is more. We've professionalized the games that people bet on,
and now you've got fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year old kids
(28:10):
and younger being scoped out for programs that basically will
guarantee some sort of massive compensation through a sponsor or
third party to go to that program. And the programs
that have bigger exposure, you're an il deal is going
to be bigger. And then you've got a football team
(28:31):
where all these eighteen, nineteen twenty year old kids are
all driving a chopped up hemy Dodge Charger, which is
what they all buy. It's the dumbest car. I love
it. It's a dumb car, goes real fast. And we all
know what happens when you mix all these things together.
It's it's it's man, you're going to kill some people eventually.
(28:56):
And how does that affect our whole college sports? And
then we've got the issue of the one sport's gonna
have compensation more than underwater basket weaving, And guess what.
Underwater basket weaving is an important historical sport in America
and deserves under Title nine the same support in YadA YadA, YadA. Well,
(29:16):
Cheryl doesn't quite get the numbers on espn Ocho doing
underwater basket weaving for Auburn the way that Auburn football does.
And then you've got students getting paid based on participant.
Oh boy, hot mess, hot mess.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Okay, let everybody know again, because you said I own me,
I own Cheryl mac boom boom the column the fifth?
How do I protect myself? Or should I even worry
about it? Is there any way to truly do it.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
In today's modern world? And this same thing I tell
my clients when their case is done, and Josh, what
do I do this? This world has grown so big
so fast, the information that's out there. You can be
cynical about it, and most people aren't nearly as important
as they think they are. Because if I really want
(30:15):
to get you, there's better ways. If I really want
to open up the big book of legal and illegal
dirty tricks, fool and with your image is child's play. Now.
It doesn't mean that lots of people aren't going to
do it. I feel terrible, especially for women that are
being horrifically sexually abused by these programs where they take
(30:39):
an otherwise innocent picture and can manipulate it into the
worst possible things you should never try to even imagine,
because it's the depths of hell. We're talking about people
and they do that, and man, we all love these
animations and these means, but you can go into the deepest,
darkest realms of the worst per person you know and
(31:01):
give them unlimited control to create an image. That's what
we're getting. And on future episode we can talk about
the unbelievably challenging free speech balance with seesam material and
how really smart, wonderful people apparently fight to make allowances
(31:21):
to allow very offensive and horrific things to come into existence.
And the real ugly stuff is when you get raw
with the First Amendment, and raw with the First Amendment
ain't nice. We're talking about irrefutably offensive imagery and the
(31:44):
ability to make it and whether it is artistic expression,
and what's the difference between an anonymized face and now
I've put the face of a famous person on it.
Is that now political speech? Or is it artistic speech?
What if it's non commercial? What if it is commercial?
It's hard out there. It's hard out there. Share. I'm quitting.
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I just want everybody know. Hey, the good news is
you own something. You own yourself.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, and if you want to buy Josh, I will
cut you a deal.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I will let you use some picture Cheryl. In fact,
I'm the start. You can use my picture. Share there
you go. Let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
I will straight tell you. I am a pimp. I
am Cheryl McCollum's pimp. Call me the.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
McCullum pim pandas in town ladies and.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Gentlemen, sugar bear, honey, come on, man, you.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Make a deal. He put you in the Lincoln. Drive
you around.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
We're gonna be on the fib track. Honey. Oh.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
One of my friends owned the worst strip club in
America down there where Literally I've seen strippers fight over
a client at that place, and it was like, this
is this is truly degenerate. Like it was hard watching it.
I felt like I was on Safari in the worst
place ever. It was uh and this was a really
(33:04):
back during some of the Heroin years, So it was, man,
you want to talk bad that part of Atlanta when
the heroine was really ripping. It was an open air
everything market, and oh the horrors that that's the depths
of you. Men.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Have you ever been in a movie theater where you
just had a great time and it's just dark and
everything is perfect, but you waited a little too long
and sat there maybe waiting for the crowd to file out,
and they turned the lights on. Let me tell you,
if you've ever in your life been in a strip club,
when the lights.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Are on, last call the strip club is a tough,
tough moment.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
When they turned the lights on. You don't even need
a black light.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Listen. Yeah, yeah, you don't want to look at that
couch you've been sitting up. Oh god.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I used to laugh, you know, with some of my
old buddies back in the day, and we would sometimes
to make a list the difference between men and women. Well,
that's one of them. That's one of them. The Three
Stooges is another. But I'm just telling you, I mean
the strip club, especially the Wednesday afternoon amateur hour. No
(34:16):
thank you, no thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It is. But here's the thing. You find beauty, art
and inspiration in the worst places.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Agreed with that, I do agree with.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
That, which is a terribly you catch twenty two. You
can't find the beauty without the awful to compare it to.
We all need context. You do not know love until
you have known loss. You do not know joy until
you have known pain.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
You have never lied, sir, And that's the way to
say it. And you know, Joshua is one of those
people y'all want gonna tell you. Everybody says either the
glass is half full or half empty. Not with Josh.
Josh realizes that cup can be. You refeel over and over.
Your capacity for love has no bounds.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
A make that this week's message your love. Your capacity
for love knows no love is free. There is no
physical call. You can give it to people. And the
more love we put out in the.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
World, we will be better off.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Four it right on. I love you, honey, Love you too.
Next week, same time, same time,
Y'all welcome to crime around up. Do we have a
topic today? It ain't what you're thinking, So just get ready,
y'all gonna get educated by the one and only Joshua
Schiff Or how are you doing, honeymoon?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
They're better only be one of me because I take
up a lot of space and I'm loud and I
make a lot of heat.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Parents, there is only one of you, because you know
the Good Lord was showing off.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Baby. All of creation is unique and we should love
every little bit of it. Amen, it is good to
be here. Yeah, and I tell you you y'all are
in for a treat. Name, image and likeness is a
little weird.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Matt, hold on, don't get don't get ahead of me.
Don't get ahead of me. I gotta I got this up.
You know I'm Southern. Y'all forget he said that, because
here's what I wanted to tell you, Joshua. My mother,
who was a genius in every sense of the word,
and she was a teacher, school teacher. She had the
(01:10):
unique ability to see somebody one time, whether it was
a concert, movie, whatever, and even if it was a
whole cast of people, could pinpoint one person and say
they are going to be a star. And she was right.
When we were little and Michael Jackson was a little kid,
(01:32):
all those brothers around him, she pointed to that child
and said, he is going to be a star. She
did it over and over and over. We were at
some little mountain festival in the middle of nowhere, and
this girl was singing, and she turned right to us
and said, y'all pay attention to her name. She's going
(01:52):
to be a huge star. Turned out to be the juds,
over and over and over. So I used to joke
with her because when Friends first came out, she pointed
to Jennifer Anderston, even though all these other people were there.
She said that one is going to be in the movies.
So I used to tell her, I wish I could
(02:14):
buy stock in people, because you would make me rich man.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Oh, you're too so, And I tell you, though you're
right about some people just have whatever that thing is.
It reminds me of Bill Clinton. Was a guy walked
into a room. You couldn't not stare at him, Jarry,
he couldn't ignore Johnny Cochran. You know, Johnny Cochran walked
into a room. It didn't matter if you didn't know
who he was. The presence like it infiltrate. It was
(02:44):
like it was like a gas bomb explosion and everybody
was just breathing in the fumes that Johnny Cochrane and
his charisma was in that room.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And I'm going to tell you something, if you didn't
know who he was, you would find yourself asking other
people who is that because you instinctively knew he was somebody.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yep. And that's just a gift that some people. That's
part of the makeup. You know, everybody's got, uh some
gifts and some decreations. Is not fair. As I tell people,
God blessed me with really strong teeth. I have excellent teeth,
the eyes and the hair. That there was there was
a trade off somewhere, there was when they were building
(03:25):
the character sheet. But uh no, the star thing's important.
And that's why I kind of was tickled when we
were talking about what to talk about this week and
and it was it was that Robin Williams article. And
for those of y'all that that that don't know about this.
So I I on social media. I do a little
bit of this and net but really Twitter is just
(03:45):
the easiest for me and I know lots of people
don't like it, and I don't like it at times
as well. It is a sewer. It is absolutely the
most unfiltered awfulness of America. But it's also the source
for a bunch of really legitimate primary sources. So you
put up with the garbage to get the good stuff.
And there was this great post about Robin Williams's daughter
(04:08):
and how bereft she was and how she felt just
awful because her father, who is one of the most
legendary comedians ever. If you have not laughed at Robin
Williams's joke show special movie, I don't know what's wrong
with you. He was as funny as you get. And
they are using his image and this AI and this
(04:31):
is a gentleman that very sadly killed himself. Just think
about that. To wake up one day and see your
loved one, your person who you already share with the
whole world, and their appearance is false. It's a fraud.
(04:55):
It's a trick, and it's a trick that hold on
anybody can pull. I can sit right here, Cheryl, and
bring up an image generator and take a picture, you
feed it in and have all kinds of media.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
It's scary. I mean it's it's great. I think it's
going to help a lot. I think people are going
to be able to do some wonderful things. That anything
that can be used can be misused.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Absolutely, And this name, image, likeness is the term that
the marketplace kind of came up with to talk about
how we're going to regulate you, the picture of you
and what rights you have to your name, your image,
and your likeness. Now, of course, because lawyers got involved,
(05:44):
we had to formalize it. And really this comes into
play that everybody knows about is in the NCAA and
these college kids because the name, image and likeness is
an asset they have that dramatically increases in value of
the moment they earn their way onto a college sports team.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I mean, let's be honest, Caitlin Clark. Most people can't
name five other female basketball players at the collegiate level,
but they knew her.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And that's because she worked really hard.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Because she worked really hard, and she was phenomenal from
the logo.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
And you own you, I own me, I own Josh Shiffer,
I look like Josh? What I look like? I got
to name Josh Shiffer, even though I do know a
couple of the other Josh Schiffer's out there. One of
them was a very interesting doctor. But I have rights
of that, and those rights obviously, when you have a right,
it can be abused and broken. That's kind of the
(06:48):
definition of a right, as if it's something that someone
could take away or impinge. And what happens with your
image and how that's used has blown up into this
job litigation universe that we're going to see more of
in true crime because what's happening now is the value
(07:09):
of the name, image, and likeness of stakeholders in the
justice system. That name, image, and likeness increased in value
due to their exposure. And I don't care if it's
a criminal who got locked up and sent to prison
for the rest of their life. I don't care if
it's a victim. I don't care if it's a witness,
I don't care if it's a judge. Their name, image,
(07:30):
and likeness due to their participation in public justice has
increased in value somewhere. And what are we going to
do about that? Because I need to make sure and
our nation needs to make sure that we get the
news and information that the First Amendment promises us. But
(07:51):
there's got to be lines where I should not be
able to or there should be some remedy if I
take someone's image and misappropriate ate it and use it
for negative things. But with the anonymousness of the internet,
good luck, And.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
It's one of those things, how do you stop it? Like,
once it's out there and people have shared it four
hundred and ninety seven billion times, it's out there forever.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
If it happened on the Internet, someone's going to read
it in court one day. And that's literally what we
telp do. Not put it on an email unless you
want to read it. Oh, Carrie, you said it's confidential.
I email lots of confidential things. I've got confidential relationships
by the bucket load. Every one of them is only
as strong as the weakest link, which is someone getting
(08:39):
a picture of my email, someone breaking in a court order.
There's so many ways that if it's digital, it's getting
out there. And I got an expert witness that I
can pay to basically undo or redo anything on the
Internet in exchange for money. So just because you thought
it was erased, whatever, probably wasn't.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
And you know, with this name in likeness. For me,
I always think of athletes at the collegiate level. I
never really thought about movie stars or singers. But you know,
there's a lot of fraud associated with it. So you
may think, hey, I'm getting an autograph picture, I'm getting
(09:18):
the real T shirt, or some booster is offering you
money to come to their school, only to find out
that person was a shyster. Wasn't true.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Absolutely, there's the fraud of some of the products and
the show ups and people acting as a fake agent
or a fixer or whatever, and then there is just
outright theft. We just concluded a case involving several celebrities
that involved their name, image and likeness in some advertising
(09:50):
where some local small businesses, some of which sold some
socially interesting items, went online and drafted some new ad
copy and they'd used some pictures, and interestingly enough, some
of those pictures got tracked back to some celebrity body parts.
(10:10):
And that's illegal. You stole my celebrity client's image to
make money. Now, it's fine if I've paid you a
license fee and you know you're using my image to
make money in advertising, But what happens if you just
steal it just use it, and ours was not that
(10:32):
big an issue, but we of course learned about a
bunch of others where literally some the more famous you are,
the more you are being robbed every day by people
using your name, image and likeness and you can't do
squat about it.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And you know, I just learned, because after I was
talking to you, I became so fascinated. I even learned
that there are students on certain visas that can't participate
because the law won't allow them. The immigration law won't
allow them. Oh yes, and I'm thinking, so now there
could be this student that is the biggest soccer star,
(11:09):
biggest volleyball player, best swimmer that a college has ever had,
maybe over an Olympic track, but they can't earn any money.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
It's very interesting when we get into this, especially the
foreign visitors, because obviously they are subject potentially to rules
and laws from their home country that could regulate their
behavior here even though they're present in the United States,
whereas in the US they'd have the freedom to contract.
(11:39):
And we're seeing that a lot in some of these
or in the these kids at schools where the name,
image likeness deal is paying them unbelievable amounts of money.
So that's obviously going to impact the whole program around them,
both the sports program and the educational program. It's a
very impactful process. But you're right, then there's the unfairness of, well,
(12:06):
this kid gets and that kid doesn't because of the
nature of how they got here. You also have the
rights of the university. So Cheryl is the absolute world
champion underwater basket weaver. She is the most famous underwater
basket weaver in the NCAA. There has never been any
very better. And so she enrolls at Auburn because it
(12:30):
is the best underwater basket weaving department and crave so eagle.
And so what ends up happening is Cheryl gets approached
by Josh's Basketry Express and says, Cheryl, you're the You're
the picture of who we want. We love you, we
need you, our clients love you. You're gonna get up
(12:51):
here and you're going to talk about how Shift for
Brand basketry is the best baskets to soar your nuts
and berries and anybody could ever imagine they are handcrafted,
dark tis no beautiful baskets, Cheryl, we want to and
Cheryl you're gonna get money, and Cheryl goes, awesome, I
love money, except she says it with that great Southern drawl.
And then Cheryl shows up wearing her underwater basket. We've
(13:12):
even custom made bikini that is emblazoned with Auburn. What
about Auburn's name image likeness? And now Cheryl has promised
Josh and been paid that she's gonna appear, But what
(13:32):
about Auburn? Is Cheryl allowed to share her Auburn uniform
or does part of her agreement prevent her from being
able to be pictured in a school licensed uniform? Don't
tell me. Schools don't make big money selling selling that logo,
and and it just it when you get down in
(13:54):
the and the and the balls rolling and you're picking
up all the moss and everything and seeing what else
attaches name imag Enlighteness starts off being real easy. Yeah,
you got to pay me to make me to use
my picture, but very quickly gets complicated. You also have
to deal with the rights of broadcasters or other people's media.
If it's a photographer from a big photography agency, you
(14:18):
just can't use their picture even though they took it
of you playing a game. On at this stadium. You
can't just take that photographer's picture. That's that's how copyright
fits it.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Well, Josh, I have another question that I have no
idea the answer, obviously, and I've never thought about it before.
You know, those collection cars, the baseball cards, football cards.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Love love love. I mean, I've had baseball cards from
the junk wax era. I got some classics. I did
Magic the Gathering from ninety four to ninety eight in college.
I then thankfully put them down, but missed the billion
dollar industry that has come up in the last few
years with these sports cards. Their prices have gone nuts
with these custom cards and cutouts. And you know, I've
(15:14):
got a bunch of lawyer friends that spend huge bucks
on the and they get graded. It's a whole yeah,
so yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
It's the whole thing. Yeah. My son, Hug, I mean
he has got a part time gig basically doing it,
and there's so much money. But I've never thought about
the cards that have the action shots from the games.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Oh, how does that happen?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I mean you're talking about NBC or somebody licensing.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And in fact I know this because I just do. Uh,
there are certain cards where you will not see a
uniform name where they have airbrushed and removed the uniform.
There are some card companies that can only print this
kind of name, image, and like, but then may have
individual contracts with players that allow more. Then your name, image,
(16:05):
and likeness may be subject to like master sales contracts.
Like if you're a member of a union, which every NFL, NBA,
a major, they're all union. Every one of them's got you,
and that a union protects things like their name, image
and likeness and has the ability to license it. Because
(16:26):
if you're your product of playing a sport gets licensed
to broadcasters, so they have rights to certain parts of
your image, but can't do other things with it. Like
if I have the right to your image because I'm
broadcasting your game, can I then use your image and
sell it to the car dealer. No, but you've given
(16:48):
me the ability to broadcast your image, but there's limits
on it. I can't use your image for X, Y
and Z. Typically there's going to be some sort of
commercial band where I'm not allowed to use your image
for anything commercial. And that's really where a lot of
the enforcement comes in, because you have to protect freedom
of speech. I have the ability to take a picture
(17:08):
of my favorite sports star or least favorite and make
an homage or a parody of it, both of which
are sacro saying American values Under the First Amendment, parody
is the lifeblood of the revolution that we had against
the British. Without parity and political commentary, we're doomed. Do
(17:33):
I have to pay to license it? Well?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
No, you're the president, So like a political cartoon, no issue.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Generally no, because the way our current system is set up.
And that's actually something we're going to get a lot
of discussion about as the current administration, and there's a
legal movement wants to change how some of our First
Amendment laws work because there are some just horrifying abuses
out there. And the eminal case which involves that groups
(18:04):
is interesting as Penthouse Jerry Folwell, New York Time that
comes out in the line of cases say this, how
famous are you? Are you a public figure? Are you newsworthy?
Is there a reason that people would have a genuine,
legitimate public safety, public interest to share your Yeah, you're
not going to have a lot of protection there. So
(18:26):
the moment you become a politician, you lose a lot
of your ability to sue people using your image.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Now I have to get you to explain something to
me because I had a stalker and when I tried
to get some things put into place to stop this person,
I was told, well, you're a public figure, you don't
have any protection. And I'm like, first of all, I
(18:55):
can go right down to my hometown grocery store. Nobody
knows who I am. I am you know Carol Burnett,
who everybody knows. Like I was so stunned by that,
And it seems like the opposite should be true.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's to a lot of people. It's a counterintuitive analysis
because you don't control necessarily whether you are a public
figure or newsworthy or not. And what happens in every
true crime case is as soon as you get arrested
for a crime in your community and are accused of
a crime, hey, you're basically a newsworthy individual, right, So
(19:34):
you can't sue the news for putting up your mugshot.
There's a reason we get a mugshot so that we
can identify people in our community that have been accute
of crimes. But at the same time, what happens if
I take your mugshot and start trying to make money
off of it, you know, by hosting a website that
says you want to know who got arrested, check this
out at Cheryl. And there's been litigation on that where
(19:56):
Georgia specifically, we had a rash of those and we
had to create a whole off and pass a law
that gives people more rights while also protecting the legitimate
interests of the press. And Cheryl, I love you. You
are a public figure. You hold yourself out in social
media and traditional media as an expert in certain things
(20:17):
you've published, You've a broadcast. It would be a very
interesting bit of litigation for you to claim as part
of a case I am not a public figure, just
the same way that I realized that I do the
same thing. I'm a lawyer. I hold myself out for business.
(20:39):
I do tons of media. But there's no line like
there wasn't a day June seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, Josh
Siffer ceased being a private person and is now public.
That's not how it works, and your status can change.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
And listen, I didn't really disagree. I mean, there are
certain sentence Well, of course I'm recognized, there's no question.
But to me, in my mind, a public figure is
somebody that the majority of people would know who they were.
And I just felt like, you're gonna give me zero
(21:18):
help because I'm this public figure that again, there are
people in my neighborhood don't know who I am, except hunting.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Caroline's mom, Karen Reid could walk up to my mother
and ask her for the weather, and my mother would
not have any idea. Man, there are people that my
daughter probably could recognize a thousand yards away, and to
her cohort are just legends.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Well, shoot, David, I'd never heard of the cat.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That's right, That's right.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Dude's definitely a public figure.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I had no clue he was as famous as he
apparently was.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
But don't you think those people, because of any celebrity
they may have, should actually have more protection. You've got
people breaking into Madonna's house, breaking into all these famous
people houses over and over and over, and it just
blows my mind.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
The danger is real. The hardest part and what I
hear from a lot of people when your celebrity has
faded and you don't necessarily have the in order that
you don't necessarily have the income and assets of a celebrity,
yet you are prominent. And that's where you get the
people who literally are famous and don't have the ways
(22:40):
that wealthy, famous people have to protect themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Now that's scary, and that sounds like Madonna.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Guess what she I understand probably has a very expensive
security twenty four hours a day as part of the
exchange she made for being one of the world's great entertainers.
Don't feel bad for her, who do? I feel bad
for the people that are just thrust into the public
through no choice of their own, or have tried to
(23:11):
leave the public. Which that's always interesting when we talk
about the tabloids, because there's those stars that we just
see constantly and everybody goes, oh, they're famous. That's whose
people are interested. Well, it's that and the fact that
the other stars when they don't want to be seen.
You don't see Tom Hanks in the papers. You don't
see people when they want to be quiet.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Well, like Jody Foster, she faded for her own protection
and went to Yale.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Stood back, went went and that is possible. It's one
of the reasons that I get all flacky when some
of these celebrities complain about the burdens of I get it,
there are some burdens of celebrity. You also reap what
you sew. And if you're going to go out to
the clubs and wear the clothes and do the things
and hang out and generate all the pr as two
(23:59):
ends of that pr So don't complain when people are
also like, look at this unflattering photo of this person
who begs photographers to follow them around, totally unlike what
happened like Princess Diana, where oh yeah, woman harangued, harassed, stalked,
and you know, abused by an over aggressive psychotic press
(24:23):
that literally killed her depending on whether you believe the
conspiracy theories or not, but regardless, she's dead and photographers
played a large role in that. But then I have
a right to know what's going on with the Royalty
of Britain in the United States press because guess what
(24:43):
I'm interested in.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay, one last question about name, image and likeness. Illegal
gambling you're all for in students millions of dollars? Well,
you think they're not going to bet and possibly throw
a game. You think they're not gonna say, Okay, well
there's gonna be maybe something I can design so that
(25:10):
we go to game seven.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Notice how we have a very public prosecution of gambling
and insider fixing, like once a generation, like there's the
Black Sox, there's Pete Rose, there was those baseball players
that got known. How every once in a while we'll
stand up and we'll say, hey, we're gonna keep sports.
Sports are not clean. Sports are not clean. Betting on
(25:33):
sports is fix a bull because it's people. Sumo, which
is the legendary, most famous sports export from Japan, turned
out has been fixed for the entire existence basically of
sumo because the way the matches are set up, after
you've achieved enough victories, you have a good incentive to
(25:56):
start throwing throwing matches to younger people who really need
that last win or two, and they do the statistical
analysis and find out, wow, these really amazing wrestlers all
happen to lose during the last couple of days against
these people, and then you've got college athletics. Betting on
(26:19):
college athletics has never been a bigger business. Georgia is
fighting right now whether or how we're going to do
college betting. Robin Hood, the giant brokerage now basically has
sports betting, they just call it something like derivative contracts
or something like that. It's sports betting, but it's not
sports bet That's how a lot of the available betting
(26:41):
like companies exist in no betting communities because you're not
actually betting on sports, you're betting on a fantasy game.
And that's one of the various ways lawyers have figured
out how to end around what bookies did, and that's
really who's losing our bookies. Your local bar probably has
(27:05):
a few fewer guys selling the football card than they
did twenty years ago. But now you've given an incentive
to some of these players who are flush with cash,
who are jealous and envious of others' wealth, and they
see how much money can be made in the temptations
of crookery, which, let's just be facefects, it's hard being
(27:29):
a poor kid, and I don't know many kids that
aren't poor or feel they are poor, because feeling struggle
is part of being that age, and that envy manifests.
And then we're going to end up with sports fixing,
which already exists, and then you can add some organized
(27:49):
crime to it, and it spins out of control. Wildly.
But yeah, that name, image and likeness in illegal gambling
does create some perverse incentives. But really the impact on
gambling is more. We've professionalized the games that people bet on,
and now you've got fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year old kids
(28:10):
and younger being scoped out for programs that basically will
guarantee some sort of massive compensation through a sponsor or
third party to go to that program. And the programs
that have bigger exposure, you're an il deal is going
to be bigger. And then you've got a football team
(28:31):
where all these eighteen, nineteen twenty year old kids are
all driving a chopped up hemy Dodge Charger, which is
what they all buy. It's the dumbest car. I love
it. It's a dumb car, goes real fast. And we all
know what happens when you mix all these things together.
It's it's it's man, you're going to kill some people eventually.
(28:56):
And how does that affect our whole college sports? And
then we've got the issue of the one sport's gonna
have compensation more than underwater basket weaving, And guess what.
Underwater basket weaving is an important historical sport in America
and deserves under Title nine the same support in YadA YadA, YadA. Well,
(29:16):
Cheryl doesn't quite get the numbers on espn Ocho doing
underwater basket weaving for Auburn the way that Auburn football does.
And then you've got students getting paid based on participant.
Oh boy, hot mess, hot mess.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Okay, let everybody know again, because you said I own me,
I own Cheryl mac boom boom the column the fifth?
How do I protect myself? Or should I even worry
about it? Is there any way to truly do it.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
In today's modern world? And this same thing I tell
my clients when their case is done, and Josh, what
do I do this? This world has grown so big
so fast, the information that's out there. You can be
cynical about it, and most people aren't nearly as important
as they think they are. Because if I really want
(30:15):
to get you, there's better ways. If I really want
to open up the big book of legal and illegal
dirty tricks, fool and with your image is child's play. Now.
It doesn't mean that lots of people aren't going to
do it. I feel terrible, especially for women that are
being horrifically sexually abused by these programs where they take
(30:39):
an otherwise innocent picture and can manipulate it into the
worst possible things you should never try to even imagine,
because it's the depths of hell. We're talking about people
and they do that, and man, we all love these
animations and these means, but you can go into the deepest,
darkest realms of the worst per person you know and
(31:01):
give them unlimited control to create an image. That's what
we're getting. And on future episode we can talk about
the unbelievably challenging free speech balance with seesam material and
how really smart, wonderful people apparently fight to make allowances
(31:21):
to allow very offensive and horrific things to come into existence.
And the real ugly stuff is when you get raw
with the First Amendment, and raw with the First Amendment
ain't nice. We're talking about irrefutably offensive imagery and the
(31:44):
ability to make it and whether it is artistic expression,
and what's the difference between an anonymized face and now
I've put the face of a famous person on it.
Is that now political speech? Or is it artistic speech?
What if it's non commercial? What if it is commercial?
It's hard out there. It's hard out there. Share. I'm quitting.
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I just want everybody know. Hey, the good news is
you own something. You own yourself.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, and if you want to buy Josh, I will
cut you a deal.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I will let you use some picture Cheryl. In fact,
I'm the start. You can use my picture. Share there
you go. Let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
I will straight tell you. I am a pimp. I
am Cheryl McCollum's pimp. Call me the.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
McCullum pim pandas in town ladies and.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Gentlemen, sugar bear, honey, come on, man, you.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Make a deal. He put you in the Lincoln. Drive
you around.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
We're gonna be on the fib track. Honey. Oh.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
One of my friends owned the worst strip club in
America down there where Literally I've seen strippers fight over
a client at that place, and it was like, this
is this is truly degenerate. Like it was hard watching it.
I felt like I was on Safari in the worst
place ever. It was uh and this was a really
(33:04):
back during some of the Heroin years, So it was, man,
you want to talk bad that part of Atlanta when
the heroine was really ripping. It was an open air
everything market, and oh the horrors that that's the depths
of you. Men.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Have you ever been in a movie theater where you
just had a great time and it's just dark and
everything is perfect, but you waited a little too long
and sat there maybe waiting for the crowd to file out,
and they turned the lights on. Let me tell you,
if you've ever in your life been in a strip club,
when the lights.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Are on, last call the strip club is a tough,
tough moment.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
When they turned the lights on. You don't even need
a black light.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Listen. Yeah, yeah, you don't want to look at that
couch you've been sitting up. Oh god.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I used to laugh, you know, with some of my
old buddies back in the day, and we would sometimes
to make a list the difference between men and women. Well,
that's one of them. That's one of them. The Three
Stooges is another. But I'm just telling you, I mean
the strip club, especially the Wednesday afternoon amateur hour. No
(34:16):
thank you, no thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It is. But here's the thing. You find beauty, art
and inspiration in the worst places.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Agreed with that, I do agree with.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
That, which is a terribly you catch twenty two. You
can't find the beauty without the awful to compare it to.
We all need context. You do not know love until
you have known loss. You do not know joy until
you have known pain.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
You have never lied, sir, And that's the way to
say it. And you know, Joshua is one of those
people y'all want gonna tell you. Everybody says either the
glass is half full or half empty. Not with Josh.
Josh realizes that cup can be. You refeel over and over.
Your capacity for love has no bounds.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
A make that this week's message your love. Your capacity
for love knows no love is free. There is no
physical call. You can give it to people. And the
more love we put out in the.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
World, we will be better off.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Four it right on. I love you, honey, Love you too.
Next week, same time, same time,
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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