June 6, 2025 • 38 mins
Today, Nancy Grace and Sheryl McCollum break down the jaw-dropping courtroom antics in Diddy’s case—think nodding at jurors and asking sketch artists to “soften” his look.
Is he playing the jury or just playing himself? They dive deep into RICO charges, witness intimidation, and public perception, all while pulling back the curtain on what really happens behind the scenes.
Plus, get the latest scoop on the Bryan Kohberger trial and what his defense might be planning. Sharp, smart, and just the right amount of savage.
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome! Nancy and Sheryl introduce this week’s crime roundup
- (0:30) Nancy Grace opens with the potential NON conviction of Diddy
- (1:00) Subliminal messaging in court rooms
- (2:30) Court room tactics and jury manipulation
- (7:00) RICO patterns - evidence piles up
- (12:00) Public relations vs. legal reality
- (14:30) “His whole life is like a movie he’s filming in his head”
- (16:30) What Happened to Ellen?: An American Miscarriage of Justice
- (18:00) The stretch artist controversy
- (20:00) The Kohberger case - a new wave of witnesses
- (30:00) DNA strategies and doubts
- (31:30) Framing theories
- (33:00) The need for concrete arguments in trial
- (37:00) Wrap up
---
Nancy Grace is an outspoken, tireless advocate for victims’ rights and one of television's most respected legal analysts. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor. She is the founder and publisher of CrimeOnline.com, a crime- fighting digital platform that investigates breaking crime news, spreads awareness of missing people and shines a light on cold cases.
In addition, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a daily show hosted by Grace, airs on SIRIUS XM’s Triumph Channel 111 and is downloadable as a podcast on all audio platforms - https://www.crimeonline.com/
Connect with Nancy:
X: @nancygrace
Instagram: @thenancygrace
Facebook: @nancygrace
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice.
Connect with Sheryl:
Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Good morning everybody. This is Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum,
and you know who's here, the Queen of True crime,
Nancy Grace. Hey, honey, well, good morning, miss Cheryl.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
You know what, the big river just keeps on rolling.
Every time I look up there's any witness on the stand,
and it just gets worse for Diddy. But I swear
it seems like the general consensus is he's not going
to get convicted. I can't believe it. And it's reminding
me of when I was so sure that Simpson O. J.
Simpson was going to get convicted and Top Maham was
(00:46):
going to get convicted, and then they didn't, and everybody
kept saying they're not going to get confected, and I
kept saying.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yes they are.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
This is insane. There's a ton of evidence.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Do you know what I've thought about for several days.
Do you remember in the day I minis, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I want to get in your head. Sure?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Do you remember Andy mikel If there was a domestic
violence victim with her accused, you know, husband standing there,
he would sometimes literally have a table placed between the
two of them. He would put a physical barrier just
to be able to kind of say subliminally, you're not
(01:25):
going to get to her here. Well, if he had
a rape victim, he would literally get us to stand
next to her to prevent him from looking at her,
you know, trying to intimidate her in any way. And
I can remember you if you had a victim on
(01:45):
the stand, whether it was domestic violence, rape, what have you,
and you thought the accused might somehow intimidate, send some signal,
make some face, whatever, you would move in a way
that would either block that field division so the victim
could look right at you and not see the accused.
(02:06):
And you know, that sort of thing has been in
my head every since I heard that the judge had
to stop court to tell Sean COLEMs to stop nodding vigorously.
That's a quote at the jury.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Can I tell you what happened yet? Number One, I
didn't believe anybody noticed what I was doing. I can't
believe me knee what I was doing.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I used to watch you, because here's what I knew.
If she's doing something and it's so slick and so brilliant,
I watched you sometimes and I didn't know what you
were doing, but I thought, Cheryl, you're missing it because
she's doing something. But that was very strategic and just
I always thought so thoughtful to the victim, like you
(02:51):
just stay right here with me. This is me and
you talking. Nobody else is here, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I'm just thinking about what's happening with on Combs. What's
happening right now with him. He's back at the NBC.
He's trying to get additional time with lawyers. I don't
know why they don't go work on the weekend or
at nights. They'll let them in over there. I mean,
(03:17):
that's typically when lawyers goes after hours to go meet
with clients behind bars. But that said, the trying to
communicate with your rs. And also he has actually in
the last hours asked the sketch artists in the courtroom
(03:38):
to quote soften him up, make him look better for him,
I mean, in his head, this is all about public perception,
but it's not. It's only about what this jury thinks.
And that's something that I guess and knew instinctively or
learned early on. But I remember in trial something would
(04:01):
happen when I would walk through those swinging doors and
they would go whush and walk down that aisle toward
the front of the courtroom. All of a sudden, for me,
nothing else existed. All that mattered was the jury, the witness.
(04:21):
That's it, really, the judge, the defendant. Everything else kind
of like blended away. It just like it didn't exist anymore.
All that existed was the jury and the witness, jury, witness.
And I'm saying it like that because it was like
a tennis match. Asked the question, look at the jury,
(04:43):
asked the next question, look at the jury, back and
forth and back and forth, until all of a sudden
it would be six o'clock in court would be over
and I'd be like, holy crap, what happened? And it
was like that, if you're thinking about anything outside of
that room, it's a waste of your energy because it
(05:05):
doesn't matter. And he's actually asking the sketch artists to
quote soften him up, his words, not mine, and how
he looks to the public. What does it matter?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
What does it matter? But again I think you're right.
I think his pr he can't stop, he cannot stop
the public relations. But by him having to be monished
right then and there for aggressively, you know, noding at
somebody well, that tells you that jury's not stupid. So
these people that are saying, oh, he's going to get
(05:39):
away with all this, did they not hear the fashion designer?
Did he dangle her off a balcony? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I'm just thinking about that too. My father hated heints,
as does David, and I don't mind them at all.
But when I get really high up, like when I've
been hiking, or you know, like the World Trade Center,
I remember taking my little nephews there, or the Empire
State Building. When you're up there, I remember I would
(06:08):
get a tingle and I still do in my legs
when I look off a high a high place, and
I'm just thinking about this woman. Nothing was between her
and falling except Sean comes holding her. How precarious it
was seventeen floors up. I have to tell you, at
(06:29):
this juncture, I am worried. I'm worried because of Simpson
and I'm worried because of tot Mom, Because in both
of those cases I believed the evidence was overwhelming, and
it was like everybody around me was saying, well, can't
you see he she They're gonna walk, can't you see?
And I'm like, no, no, one don't see it. It's
(06:50):
I don't know. I think I've got tunnel vision.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Again, you don't have tunnel vision. We've had arson, drug distribution,
sex crime, bribery, obstruction, and now I think jury intimidation.
I mean, I don't know what more you need for Rico.
It's right there.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, I agree, I agree, But I mean again, I
thought the same thing about tot Mom and Simpson. That's
what I'm saying. The evidence was there too, and it
was very very strong. So not really verbalizing this the
way because it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense
that they were not convicted. It doesn't make sense that
(07:32):
every so many people are convinced Combs is innocent. I
just said man on the streets last night, and overwhelmingly
it's like free Diddy. It was like dirt in my mouth.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Sure, well, top mom for me, as you well know,
here was my problem with her. There's not one photograph
that baby didn't look happy and clean, and they were
photographs of them playing with each other.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, because she had just taken her from the arms
of her grandmother, Cindy Anthony, who kept her sleeping foot fed.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Understood, But there also was not a string of people
really saying how she was abusive to the child, mean
to the child, didn't want the child here. You have
a parade of people that knew him, worked for him,
dated him, the most intimate circle of people telling you
(08:33):
this is a violent, conniving, con artist, mean criminal. That's
what they're telling you. Girlfriends, employees, friends, They're telling you, Yes,
I saw him beat her. Yes I bought drugs for him. Yes,
I brought prostitutes here for him. Yes, I'm a prostitute.
(08:54):
I saw him do this. I mean, I don't understand
how anybody can say that this is not a solid
reco case.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Back to what happened yesterday, the judge really reamed out
the defense lawyers because of expressions. Now, I've never really
heard that done. You made a faith, so you're in trouble.
Expressions the judge said, comes made to the jury. When
(09:29):
the judge says he was quote vigorously nodding. I can
only imagine how bad it must have been for the
judge to notice it, looking at the jurors nodding vigorously
during testimony of it was Brianna Bongoling Mangolan. It's a
friend of Cassivnenturi's Now, that's the person that he held
(09:54):
over the balcony by her armpits seventeen floors up. He
said that it comes and stop, that he the judge
was going to give what they call a curative like
a cure curative instruction and what exclude comes throat comes
(10:14):
out of his own courtroom, and you can try someone
in absentia. I've done it before. It was a drug lord.
I didn't kick him out. He didn't show up, so
I mean his ball was immediately forfeited once we found him.
But he missed a huge part of his trial, which
(10:34):
is not a good look anyway. It would not help
comes to be absent in the courtroom. So I don't
know if he can control himself.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I don't either. And you know you have done such
a great job always of being middle of the road
facts only. I'm not going to let a motion come in.
I'm not going to let my personal feelings. That is
what has always guided you when I see a defendant
(11:05):
that should be calm, taking notes, helping the defense. Hey,
I didn't say that, or remember I was in another
country at the time. Whatever he can do to help
himself that's not even possible if you're now resorting to
either antics or just can't control your emotions. So to me,
(11:31):
if a judge, as you said, not only just noticed,
it had to stop everything. It was beyond that. It
was obvious to everybody. And again, I don't think the
jury's going to miss that, because if I was a
part of that jury and felt he was directing that
toward me, I would take that as a threat.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Okay, did you ever read the Harry Potter books?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I did not.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Did you at least watch the movies?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
No, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So when necessary, Harry Potter or Hermione would say stoop fhi,
and it would kind of like stun the victim. Of course,
they had to have their wand but that's why I've
come up with a phrase, did hefi? Okay? Because I
(12:18):
think people have been didified. People that think he's innocent
have been didified. Yes, that is what I'm saying. Now,
you know your homewer used to go watch all the movies,
said I think these people have been didified. Can we
just talk? Can we just talk about? Oh oh, And
I found this guy and I've known him since way back,
(12:39):
and h Lynn his name is rob shooters, s h
U T e R, not shooter, bang bang shooter. And
he was combs as p R guru for years no longer.
And the stories he'd tell I just about fall off
my anchor chair every time he stares. Since, Okay, hold on,
(13:01):
what's a good one. There's just so many? Okay, So
he had he Shooter had arranged all this media to
see Sean comes get on to wait for it his
private ship. They were all lined up I guess behind
(13:24):
a velvet cord. I don't know. They're lined up where
the media was supposed to be a lot of them.
And incomes comes pulling up in his all black headed
windows suv and he gets out and starts walking up
literally the red carpet to the private plane and then
he stops. He's like, oh f no, and everybody's like
(13:49):
what And he walks back to my friend rib Shooter
and says this though you don't even have the right angle,
because what everybody got I guess it was titeboro was
they had their backs to the private plane and they
(14:09):
were watching him come along the what do you say,
the access road, watching him come along the access road
and get up his car and start looking, but the
media didn't have their backs were to his private plane,
and you know all of the medions standing there, the
pilot ready to kiss his behind, and all the flight
(14:32):
attendants and all those people standing there with champagne to
hand him as a young all that he threw a
big fit. He made Shooter go back and turn all
the press around, physically turned them around and go to
each press person and force each one of them to
(14:53):
delete the other video. Then he got back in his
suv left and drove back in so they could get
him pulling up in view of the private plane to
then get out of his suv again and walk up
and I guess, get his glass of champagne and have
(15:16):
his rear enkiss by all the minions and get on
the plane.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So he did a take too, like he's in a movie.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yes, yes, And I'm glad you said like you said,
a movie, because Rob went on to say his whole
life is like a movie he's filming in his head. Now,
wait a minute, let's extrapolate that. Let's overlay that on
what's happening right now, telling the sketch artist soften me up.
(15:48):
That can't go out like that, trying to orchestrate what's
happening in the courtroom, trying to communicate with the jury,
trying to die wrecked the free Coughs, trying to Hey,
you tell the police she was drunk and she was
the aggressor when he attacked his chef. Hey, you tell
(16:10):
the pharmacist you're frank black and you get my fake prescriptions.
You do this, you do that. Hey, you fix the lighting,
You light the candle, you move her arms, Let's change
the lighting in the free cough You slipped the ghb interstry.
It's like it's his movie and we're just bit players
(16:31):
in his movie. And I'm sure that there is some
type of psychological term for this. I don't know what
it is, but that is neither here nor there. I'm
just telling you this is real.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
How could a beautiful, young first grade teacher be stabbed
twenty times, including in the bat allegedly die of suicide? Yes,
that was the medical examiner's official ruling after a closed
door meeting. He first named it a homicide. Why what
happened to Ellen Greenberg a huge American miscarriage of justice.
(17:15):
For an in depth look at the facts, see what
happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the National
Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You have been in every level of court there is local, state,
and federal, myself included. I sat next to you in
federal court with vanderslout. You and I. Right down at
the end of our bench was the sketch artist. Do
you remember because I was fascinated watching her very skilled.
(17:52):
It would never dawn on you and I, who've been
to thousands of trials, to tell any sketch artist, hey,
draw me in there, make me look twenty five like what.
I would never even speak to the sketch artist. I
would never think to say, you know, hey, add Nancy
(18:14):
and me so I can frame that, moll. That's like,
what are you talking about? How would he even have
the goal to think he could talk to a sketch
artist period. That person is a viable part of this
whole thing because we can't have TV in there. That
sketch artist is our only visual to this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And they're always the sketches never look anything like what's
going on.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Never. And you know, I sit there and I think,
you know there's some things because you're a veteran that
maybe you learn along the way, but not something you
demand or ask for is because you know, hey, remember
when we were all seeing in HL and doing your
show for twenty years. One day it just happened me
(19:04):
and Renee Rockwell were on at the same time, and
you had us at the main table, not like in
a little afshoot studio. I'll never forget. And they were
setting up cameras and all that toward everybody. I never
said a word to anybody. I was so grateful to
be there. I'm just like, whatever happens is great. I
appreciate it. Not rock Wull Honey. She looked at that
(19:28):
man behind that camera and she went, you know better,
that ain't my life. She had some soft amber bulb
that she had to be on her that of course
made her skin look fantastic.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
It made I stuck like crap. Okay, yeah, I never
ever read social because it's just like depressing. But I
do look for new stories. I look because people say, hey,
have you heard about so and so? Hey, can you
help us do this? Sir? Please cover this. The other
(20:02):
day somebody wrote and they went, have you ever considered
have you ever considered professional hair at Macon? I'm like, girl,
and this is the best two hours of heart makeup
can do. It's not going to get any better.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
And if people knew that, don't even hurt her feelings.
We think it's hilarious. But I'm telling you we she
broke out with that amber light. Let me tell you something.
My guy looks at me, like, you want an amber light.
I'm like, no, I want the darkest. Do you have brown?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Do you? I'm just trying to think of what I'm
going to say and if it's going to make any
sense at all. Okay, before we're going we're getting dentified.
Can we talk about Coburger woman? Okay, did you know that?
Apparently Coburger's past life is looming? New witnesses have been
called to Idaho.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
No, but it's about time hunting a former professor at
the sale, a woman who saidy boxing gym where he
used to train, got summons.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
For June thirty. By the way, now why are they
coming on June thirty? Apparently there's a hearing they can
show why they should not be called to testify. Okay,
I know her name is professor Michelle Bulger, and I
know she taught him at the Sales, and I know
at the sales. He was getting his criminal justice master's degree.
(21:31):
That's what I know about her. I also know that
she had previously stated that she was shocked at what
he was accused of and she doesn't believe it. She
also thinks he's brilliant. That's what I can remember about her.
I know that other witnesses are Anne Parnham, who was
(21:52):
an advisor. I know that one of the people is
Jesse Harris and Harris work Sady boxing, Jim where Coberger
used to work out. That's all I know right now.
But what do you think about that? Oh, by the way,
he used to work out every day at that gym.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I think boxing is interesting to me, and I'd like
to know more about it, like exactly what he did.
Did he spar with people or was he on a bag?
What was he training for? Was it to get in
shape because he used to be heavy. I know that
I know he was in R O T C. But
boxing as opposed to other types of working out. I
(22:32):
would be interested to know things that he said, things
that he did. In other words, has he ever sparred
with a woman. I just want to know all of it,
every bit of it.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I wonder what it's all about I'm I'm sure it's
somehow going to shine light on his personality, but they're
going way way back, and I'm just curious about the
trial strategy. What is it for. I know that the
defense is seeking another delay. I don't know that they're
(23:06):
going to get it, because it's already been so long
and they've got they keep referring to a quote alternate
suspect theory, in other words, saw it, some of the
dud did it. So I don't know who the quote
alternate suspect is going to be. But the law is,
you can't have a phantom some of the dud did it.
(23:30):
You've got to be able to point to a particular person.
And I learned that I believe it was Drew Findling,
who's a very wildly lawyer, is a good lawyer. Defense
attorney was going to bring or tried to bring in
statistics in a rape case, stating in this area there
(23:53):
have been seventy other rapes in this past year, and
so and so was convicted of these number, you know,
ten of them, and it could very well have been him,
and that was disallowed. And I can't remember specific the
specific case, but I remember arguing and looking up the law.
(24:16):
You have to they have to have a real individual.
It can't just be okay, this is what I was
thinking they might be doing. Do you remember that not
long before the quadruple Sleigh, that there was a home
invasion not far away, not separated by a long period
(24:39):
of time. That was a two floor two or three
four structure, and in the home lived several women as roommates,
and the person came in and I believe I'd have
to look it up again, it's off the top of
my head. They were clad in dark clothing with a
face mask and appear in one of the women's bedrooms
(25:02):
in the middle of the night with a knife, and
the victim kicked the purp in the stomach and the
purp ran off. I'm wondering if they're going to use
that example as the some other dude, although I think
that was probably coburger finally go ahead.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, but that's what I would want to know, what
type of car, what cell phone pays hit there. There's
a whole lot of things. Again, if they can't add it,
it's only going to hurt them, because listen, I know
people that can't watch boxing. So if they try to
include that, here's the deal. You want to work out,
(25:43):
but you have selected the most violent sport to work out.
You're not playing tennis, you're not going for a jog.
You claim you like to hike. Yeah, right, but you
choose boxing. And again, did you want to learn where
to punch a woman in the face to knock her
out so you could rape her. I don't think that's
gonna do him any good.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Well, let's think about these two theories. And this is
kind of thing that I would love to just sit
there and go to my quote mind palace. Okay, I
got that from Sherlock Holmes. But listen to this. I'm
thinking about their defenses and how they can reconcile, or
if they can reconcile, does that mean if they are
(26:26):
not able to be reconciled, that the defense will pick
one of them or just throw everything. It could have
been this, or it could have been this, or it
could have been this. Okay. What I'm talking about is
I know the lead lawyer, and Taylor told the judge
she found a lead on another suspect deep amongst the
(26:46):
tips collected by police. Well, that could be anybody, Okay,
including what the scenario, the true scenario we just discussed.
It could be that. But she also previously said in
court the defense planned to argue Coburger was framed by
someone who planted his DNA at the crime scene, and
(27:10):
that two people committed the crimes using two different weapons. Okay,
wait a minute, now I know where she's getting that.
One of those from from the DNA found on the stairwell,
which could come from anybody at any time. Or wait,
(27:30):
excuse me, and the glove found in the parking lot
with DNA on the inside of the glove. So that's
likely two different DNAs and she using them to bolster
the theory that there were two other individuals there and
not just that, but that they framed Coburger. Now here's
(27:54):
my question. Does that reconcile with her argument that she
found another suspect in the tips collected by police early
on or is that a second as an alternate theory
as some other dude, or is she going to blend them.
(28:18):
These are two lines, very distinct lines of defense. She
got a tip, she says, of another suspect early on
in the investigation, from the police tip. Somebody called it
a tip. Okay, is that what the sod some other
dude is going to be or is it going to
(28:39):
be these two other male DNAs found at the same
and they're framing cover or is she going to blend
them and claim that Go with me, this tip received
early on is in fact the same male who the
(29:00):
DNA was on the handrail and or in the glove,
and that individual framed Coburger by putting the knife sheath.
There is any of that true? No, none of it's true.
Obviously it's this direction. But think about it, Cheryl, Think
about it. She has this unknown DNA at the scene
(29:24):
out in the parking lot. Right when I was there,
I saw a glove in the parking lot of the
house where somebody had dropped it. I'm sure it's not
the same glove, but I remember pointing it out. It
was the flactination growling. Look at that. I said, Oh,
I think, I said, did y'all drop that? Because if
I thought one of them had dropped their glove. Anyway,
(29:45):
My point is that sounds real, Cheryl, that there was
an actual tip called in and that there is a
glove and there is DNA on the banister. Is it true?
Of of course, it's not true. But all it takes
is one is your ard to believe it.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
She's gonna use all of it because if one doesn't stick,
the other one might. She's going to give them as
much reasonable doubt as possible. Remember, he was out looking
at stars and hiking. She's throwing everything against that wall.
Here's what she's gonna do. She's gonna absolutely bring in
the tip. They're going to counter that by saying, you know, detective,
(30:30):
how many tips did y'all get for the tip line five,
six hundred and fourteen or whatever the number is, how
many panned out? None? Okay, great, move on. Let's talk
about DNA in the house. Let's talk about DNA on
your own car. If you've ever had a tire changed,
if you've had an old change, if you've ever had
any kind of repair of a headlight or anything, there
(30:53):
is DNA on your car from an unknown person. And
when you go and get your admissions and they go
into your car and plug that little machine in, he's
touching parts of your car inside the driver's door. Is
gonna be unknown male DNA. They can explain that away.
But yes, she's gonna try it. But just like the
(31:15):
hiking she knows that it isn't true. It's all misdirection.
And when you break this thing down to its most
elementary vein that runs through this whole thing, the car,
the cell phone going into airplane mode, that not just DNA,
but they You want me to believe that somebody put
(31:36):
his DNA on a knighte sheath and it happens to
be the same knife he freaking boughtd twice. It ain't
gonna work.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well, I don't think it's gonna work either, But now
as the time, okay, do you remember, I think it
was Reagan had something called the star Wars Defense, And
what the star Wars was millions and millions and trillions
and trillions to shoot down, first of all, to locate
(32:07):
incoming missiles or bombs and then shoot them down before
they got to us soil. That's what the state needs
to be doing right now, not just throwing out platitudes
like it's a mysteric said it's not going to work. Okay, fine,
what where did that get me? Nowhere? You have to
think about what they are going to do specifically, and
(32:32):
then you have to find a way to shoot it
down before it even happens. What I'm saying is like, Okay,
you just said something really helpful. The oil change is
a brilliant example, a brilliant example. They have to be
thinking now about how they're going to shoot down this
(32:53):
theory that there were two other purpose that chose Okay,
that that is could hook at you are, but two
other props that framed Coburger. See that is where to me,
you would lose a jury. You might have some curror
(33:16):
that buys in to Okay, there's mel DNA in the stairwell,
there was mail DNA in that glove out in the
parking lot. But then to go another step and say
and they were there to frame Coburger, Like how did
they frame him? How did they get his DNA on
that sheet? They need to be thinking of concrete arguments
(33:40):
to fight back against this defense. This is where the
defense is going. They're not going to claim he was insane.
They're not going to claim any other scenario placing him
there at the time of the crime. I don't think
they're going to go with he didn't do it, he
was out stargazing. That's what they're going to do.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I think it's going to be pretty easy, and I'm
sure they are sitting no, no, because you know, the
defense hadn't been quiet about what they're saying. So I'm
sure they've got counter counter counter.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Can I give you one more trial quote? Now I've
quoted Harry Potter, Sherlote Holmes and others. Now, let me
quote Caddy Shack. If you want to catch a varmit,
you got to think like a varmit. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
You're absolutely right, You're absolutely right. But you know when
they called the owner of the home, did you ever
have somebody come in and paint? Did you ever have
somebody come in and do electrical work? Did you ever
have somebody go upstairs to change a filter? They're going
to be able to explain those children had parties. You
want to talk about unknown male DNA. It should be
(34:54):
all over that house. That's not going to hold any
water here at all.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Only takes one It only takes one ger to screw
the whole thing up.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Hey, before I let you go, I got to tell people,
so y'all that really truly have only known Nancy Grace
from TV and podcast and interviews. You see a very smart, calculated,
forward thinking prosecutor. And she's quick on her feet, and
(35:27):
she's right down the solid line of truth and justice.
She is also, if you know her personally, very funny.
The other day, a buddy of mine sends me this clip, Nancy.
It's a podcaster and her name is Bunny, and she's
talking about you, and she says, have y'all seen the
(35:48):
queen of true crime, the woman that started it all?
We're all just following in her footsteps. This girl is beautiful,
she's blindheaded. I don't know her full name or anything,
but it's like the playboy bunnies behind her and she's
talking to a buddy of hers, and her buddy's like, yes,
I've seen it, and she goes, y'all if you have
(36:09):
not seen it, roll this clip what you And you're saying, yeah,
you know, the witness said, he's itty bitty diddy, and
then you throw to the guest you have and you say,
there's just no coming back from that. These girls they
(36:29):
fall out laughing, and then she says, if anybody knows
Nats and Grades, please tell her to come on here.
We love her, So I thought, I just got to
tell you that it is the greatest clip of the
two of them, just falling out because you're like itty bitty,
like hmm okay, pimp daddy. You know, we see what
(36:51):
they're working with. No wonder you're so mad all the
time and aggressive and hate.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Women so much.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
You hate women so much. But I'm gonna tell you
right now, if that's true, that he's that itdy bitty,
the wrong person was black male. I'd get the video
with that and say, Sean, you can release mine, but
I'm gonna release yours brother.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
The other day, what was I doing? Oh yeah, I
was on with the Harvey Levin from TMZ and Garret
Ghos was on. I think I accused him of being
on the Idy Biddy Diddy committee. That's the defense team.
That's when I'm referring to them as. But you know,
Brian still ain't half bad. He's a pretty good lawyer.
I kind of that throws the wrench in my works.
(37:35):
And I'll tell you. I'll tell you another thing I noticed,
and this time I'm gonna tell you I have to
go Gloria. Is that still started off with what I
always call the Andy of Maybury approach with one of
the female witnesses, where you're getting the information you want
on cross but you're not being a total a hole
(37:57):
about it. You're not tearing them any booty hole and
being somewhat genial. And then over in the corner is
Shawn Holmes at the defense table, moving around and twirling around,
and you know what does that face in his hands
and twitching and uh and then still took a different
(38:18):
tack and started being really mean, steering to the witness.
I wonder if Diddy's steering that ship, because you know
what they say, a man that represents himself has a
fool for a client and is so Diddy's calling the
shots on this. They're going down fast. Can't wait to
(38:40):
find out if he's going to take the stand. And
I'll leave you on that note, Bye, Gloria, were leaving
my sugar,
Good morning everybody. This is Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum,
and you know who's here, the Queen of True crime,
Nancy Grace. Hey, honey, well, good morning, miss Cheryl.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
You know what, the big river just keeps on rolling.
Every time I look up there's any witness on the stand,
and it just gets worse for Diddy. But I swear
it seems like the general consensus is he's not going
to get convicted. I can't believe it. And it's reminding
me of when I was so sure that Simpson O. J.
Simpson was going to get convicted and Top Maham was
(00:46):
going to get convicted, and then they didn't, and everybody
kept saying they're not going to get confected, and I
kept saying.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yes they are.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
This is insane. There's a ton of evidence.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Do you know what I've thought about for several days.
Do you remember in the day I minis, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I want to get in your head. Sure?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Do you remember Andy mikel If there was a domestic
violence victim with her accused, you know, husband standing there,
he would sometimes literally have a table placed between the
two of them. He would put a physical barrier just
to be able to kind of say subliminally, you're not
(01:25):
going to get to her here. Well, if he had
a rape victim, he would literally get us to stand
next to her to prevent him from looking at her,
you know, trying to intimidate her in any way. And
I can remember you if you had a victim on
(01:45):
the stand, whether it was domestic violence, rape, what have you,
and you thought the accused might somehow intimidate, send some signal,
make some face, whatever, you would move in a way
that would either block that field division so the victim
could look right at you and not see the accused.
(02:06):
And you know, that sort of thing has been in
my head every since I heard that the judge had
to stop court to tell Sean COLEMs to stop nodding vigorously.
That's a quote at the jury.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Can I tell you what happened yet? Number One, I
didn't believe anybody noticed what I was doing. I can't
believe me knee what I was doing.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I used to watch you, because here's what I knew.
If she's doing something and it's so slick and so brilliant,
I watched you sometimes and I didn't know what you
were doing, but I thought, Cheryl, you're missing it because
she's doing something. But that was very strategic and just
I always thought so thoughtful to the victim, like you
(02:51):
just stay right here with me. This is me and
you talking. Nobody else is here, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I'm just thinking about what's happening with on Combs. What's
happening right now with him. He's back at the NBC.
He's trying to get additional time with lawyers. I don't
know why they don't go work on the weekend or
at nights. They'll let them in over there. I mean,
(03:17):
that's typically when lawyers goes after hours to go meet
with clients behind bars. But that said, the trying to
communicate with your rs. And also he has actually in
the last hours asked the sketch artists in the courtroom
(03:38):
to quote soften him up, make him look better for him,
I mean, in his head, this is all about public perception,
but it's not. It's only about what this jury thinks.
And that's something that I guess and knew instinctively or
learned early on. But I remember in trial something would
(04:01):
happen when I would walk through those swinging doors and
they would go whush and walk down that aisle toward
the front of the courtroom. All of a sudden, for me,
nothing else existed. All that mattered was the jury, the witness.
(04:21):
That's it, really, the judge, the defendant. Everything else kind
of like blended away. It just like it didn't exist anymore.
All that existed was the jury and the witness, jury, witness.
And I'm saying it like that because it was like
a tennis match. Asked the question, look at the jury,
(04:43):
asked the next question, look at the jury, back and
forth and back and forth, until all of a sudden
it would be six o'clock in court would be over
and I'd be like, holy crap, what happened? And it
was like that, if you're thinking about anything outside of
that room, it's a waste of your energy because it
(05:05):
doesn't matter. And he's actually asking the sketch artists to
quote soften him up, his words, not mine, and how
he looks to the public. What does it matter?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
What does it matter? But again I think you're right.
I think his pr he can't stop, he cannot stop
the public relations. But by him having to be monished
right then and there for aggressively, you know, noding at
somebody well, that tells you that jury's not stupid. So
these people that are saying, oh, he's going to get
(05:39):
away with all this, did they not hear the fashion designer?
Did he dangle her off a balcony? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I'm just thinking about that too. My father hated heints,
as does David, and I don't mind them at all.
But when I get really high up, like when I've
been hiking, or you know, like the World Trade Center,
I remember taking my little nephews there, or the Empire
State Building. When you're up there, I remember I would
(06:08):
get a tingle and I still do in my legs
when I look off a high a high place, and
I'm just thinking about this woman. Nothing was between her
and falling except Sean comes holding her. How precarious it
was seventeen floors up. I have to tell you, at
(06:29):
this juncture, I am worried. I'm worried because of Simpson
and I'm worried because of tot Mom, Because in both
of those cases I believed the evidence was overwhelming, and
it was like everybody around me was saying, well, can't
you see he she They're gonna walk, can't you see?
And I'm like, no, no, one don't see it. It's
(06:50):
I don't know. I think I've got tunnel vision.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Again, you don't have tunnel vision. We've had arson, drug distribution,
sex crime, bribery, obstruction, and now I think jury intimidation.
I mean, I don't know what more you need for Rico.
It's right there.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, I agree, I agree, But I mean again, I
thought the same thing about tot Mom and Simpson. That's
what I'm saying. The evidence was there too, and it
was very very strong. So not really verbalizing this the
way because it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense
that they were not convicted. It doesn't make sense that
(07:32):
every so many people are convinced Combs is innocent. I
just said man on the streets last night, and overwhelmingly
it's like free Diddy. It was like dirt in my mouth.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Sure, well, top mom for me, as you well know,
here was my problem with her. There's not one photograph
that baby didn't look happy and clean, and they were
photographs of them playing with each other.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, because she had just taken her from the arms
of her grandmother, Cindy Anthony, who kept her sleeping foot fed.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Understood, But there also was not a string of people
really saying how she was abusive to the child, mean
to the child, didn't want the child here. You have
a parade of people that knew him, worked for him,
dated him, the most intimate circle of people telling you
(08:33):
this is a violent, conniving, con artist, mean criminal. That's
what they're telling you. Girlfriends, employees, friends, They're telling you, Yes,
I saw him beat her. Yes I bought drugs for him. Yes,
I brought prostitutes here for him. Yes, I'm a prostitute.
(08:54):
I saw him do this. I mean, I don't understand
how anybody can say that this is not a solid
reco case.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Back to what happened yesterday, the judge really reamed out
the defense lawyers because of expressions. Now, I've never really
heard that done. You made a faith, so you're in trouble.
Expressions the judge said, comes made to the jury. When
(09:29):
the judge says he was quote vigorously nodding. I can
only imagine how bad it must have been for the
judge to notice it, looking at the jurors nodding vigorously
during testimony of it was Brianna Bongoling Mangolan. It's a
friend of Cassivnenturi's Now, that's the person that he held
(09:54):
over the balcony by her armpits seventeen floors up. He
said that it comes and stop, that he the judge
was going to give what they call a curative like
a cure curative instruction and what exclude comes throat comes
(10:14):
out of his own courtroom, and you can try someone
in absentia. I've done it before. It was a drug lord.
I didn't kick him out. He didn't show up, so
I mean his ball was immediately forfeited once we found him.
But he missed a huge part of his trial, which
(10:34):
is not a good look anyway. It would not help
comes to be absent in the courtroom. So I don't
know if he can control himself.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I don't either. And you know you have done such
a great job always of being middle of the road
facts only. I'm not going to let a motion come in.
I'm not going to let my personal feelings. That is
what has always guided you when I see a defendant
(11:05):
that should be calm, taking notes, helping the defense. Hey,
I didn't say that, or remember I was in another
country at the time. Whatever he can do to help
himself that's not even possible if you're now resorting to
either antics or just can't control your emotions. So to me,
(11:31):
if a judge, as you said, not only just noticed,
it had to stop everything. It was beyond that. It
was obvious to everybody. And again, I don't think the
jury's going to miss that, because if I was a
part of that jury and felt he was directing that
toward me, I would take that as a threat.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Okay, did you ever read the Harry Potter books?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I did not.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Did you at least watch the movies?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
No, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So when necessary, Harry Potter or Hermione would say stoop fhi,
and it would kind of like stun the victim. Of course,
they had to have their wand but that's why I've
come up with a phrase, did hefi? Okay? Because I
(12:18):
think people have been didified. People that think he's innocent
have been didified. Yes, that is what I'm saying. Now,
you know your homewer used to go watch all the movies,
said I think these people have been didified. Can we
just talk? Can we just talk about? Oh oh, And
I found this guy and I've known him since way back,
(12:39):
and h Lynn his name is rob shooters, s h
U T e R, not shooter, bang bang shooter. And
he was combs as p R guru for years no longer.
And the stories he'd tell I just about fall off
my anchor chair every time he stares. Since, Okay, hold on,
(13:01):
what's a good one. There's just so many? Okay, So
he had he Shooter had arranged all this media to
see Sean comes get on to wait for it his
private ship. They were all lined up I guess behind
(13:24):
a velvet cord. I don't know. They're lined up where
the media was supposed to be a lot of them.
And incomes comes pulling up in his all black headed
windows suv and he gets out and starts walking up
literally the red carpet to the private plane and then
he stops. He's like, oh f no, and everybody's like
(13:49):
what And he walks back to my friend rib Shooter
and says this though you don't even have the right angle,
because what everybody got I guess it was titeboro was
they had their backs to the private plane and they
(14:09):
were watching him come along the what do you say,
the access road, watching him come along the access road
and get up his car and start looking, but the
media didn't have their backs were to his private plane,
and you know all of the medions standing there, the
pilot ready to kiss his behind, and all the flight
(14:32):
attendants and all those people standing there with champagne to
hand him as a young all that he threw a
big fit. He made Shooter go back and turn all
the press around, physically turned them around and go to
each press person and force each one of them to
(14:53):
delete the other video. Then he got back in his
suv left and drove back in so they could get
him pulling up in view of the private plane to
then get out of his suv again and walk up
and I guess, get his glass of champagne and have
(15:16):
his rear enkiss by all the minions and get on
the plane.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So he did a take too, like he's in a movie.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yes, yes, And I'm glad you said like you said,
a movie, because Rob went on to say his whole
life is like a movie he's filming in his head. Now,
wait a minute, let's extrapolate that. Let's overlay that on
what's happening right now, telling the sketch artist soften me up.
(15:48):
That can't go out like that, trying to orchestrate what's
happening in the courtroom, trying to communicate with the jury,
trying to die wrecked the free Coughs, trying to Hey,
you tell the police she was drunk and she was
the aggressor when he attacked his chef. Hey, you tell
(16:10):
the pharmacist you're frank black and you get my fake prescriptions.
You do this, you do that. Hey, you fix the lighting,
You light the candle, you move her arms, Let's change
the lighting in the free cough You slipped the ghb interstry.
It's like it's his movie and we're just bit players
(16:31):
in his movie. And I'm sure that there is some
type of psychological term for this. I don't know what
it is, but that is neither here nor there. I'm
just telling you this is real.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
How could a beautiful, young first grade teacher be stabbed
twenty times, including in the bat allegedly die of suicide? Yes,
that was the medical examiner's official ruling after a closed
door meeting. He first named it a homicide. Why what
happened to Ellen Greenberg a huge American miscarriage of justice.
(17:15):
For an in depth look at the facts, see what
happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the National
Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You have been in every level of court there is local, state,
and federal, myself included. I sat next to you in
federal court with vanderslout. You and I. Right down at
the end of our bench was the sketch artist. Do
you remember because I was fascinated watching her very skilled.
(17:52):
It would never dawn on you and I, who've been
to thousands of trials, to tell any sketch artist, hey,
draw me in there, make me look twenty five like what.
I would never even speak to the sketch artist. I
would never think to say, you know, hey, add Nancy
(18:14):
and me so I can frame that, moll. That's like,
what are you talking about? How would he even have
the goal to think he could talk to a sketch
artist period. That person is a viable part of this
whole thing because we can't have TV in there. That
sketch artist is our only visual to this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And they're always the sketches never look anything like what's
going on.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Never. And you know, I sit there and I think,
you know there's some things because you're a veteran that
maybe you learn along the way, but not something you
demand or ask for is because you know, hey, remember
when we were all seeing in HL and doing your
show for twenty years. One day it just happened me
(19:04):
and Renee Rockwell were on at the same time, and
you had us at the main table, not like in
a little afshoot studio. I'll never forget. And they were
setting up cameras and all that toward everybody. I never
said a word to anybody. I was so grateful to
be there. I'm just like, whatever happens is great. I
appreciate it. Not rock Wull Honey. She looked at that
(19:28):
man behind that camera and she went, you know better,
that ain't my life. She had some soft amber bulb
that she had to be on her that of course
made her skin look fantastic.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
It made I stuck like crap. Okay, yeah, I never
ever read social because it's just like depressing. But I
do look for new stories. I look because people say, hey,
have you heard about so and so? Hey, can you
help us do this? Sir? Please cover this. The other
(20:02):
day somebody wrote and they went, have you ever considered
have you ever considered professional hair at Macon? I'm like, girl,
and this is the best two hours of heart makeup
can do. It's not going to get any better.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
And if people knew that, don't even hurt her feelings.
We think it's hilarious. But I'm telling you we she
broke out with that amber light. Let me tell you something.
My guy looks at me, like, you want an amber light.
I'm like, no, I want the darkest. Do you have brown?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Do you? I'm just trying to think of what I'm
going to say and if it's going to make any
sense at all. Okay, before we're going we're getting dentified.
Can we talk about Coburger woman? Okay, did you know that?
Apparently Coburger's past life is looming? New witnesses have been
called to Idaho.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
No, but it's about time hunting a former professor at
the sale, a woman who saidy boxing gym where he
used to train, got summons.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
For June thirty. By the way, now why are they
coming on June thirty? Apparently there's a hearing they can
show why they should not be called to testify. Okay,
I know her name is professor Michelle Bulger, and I
know she taught him at the Sales, and I know
at the sales. He was getting his criminal justice master's degree.
(21:31):
That's what I know about her. I also know that
she had previously stated that she was shocked at what
he was accused of and she doesn't believe it. She
also thinks he's brilliant. That's what I can remember about her.
I know that other witnesses are Anne Parnham, who was
(21:52):
an advisor. I know that one of the people is
Jesse Harris and Harris work Sady boxing, Jim where Coberger
used to work out. That's all I know right now.
But what do you think about that? Oh, by the way,
he used to work out every day at that gym.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I think boxing is interesting to me, and I'd like
to know more about it, like exactly what he did.
Did he spar with people or was he on a bag?
What was he training for? Was it to get in
shape because he used to be heavy. I know that
I know he was in R O T C. But
boxing as opposed to other types of working out. I
(22:32):
would be interested to know things that he said, things
that he did. In other words, has he ever sparred
with a woman. I just want to know all of it,
every bit of it.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I wonder what it's all about I'm I'm sure it's
somehow going to shine light on his personality, but they're
going way way back, and I'm just curious about the
trial strategy. What is it for. I know that the
defense is seeking another delay. I don't know that they're
(23:06):
going to get it, because it's already been so long
and they've got they keep referring to a quote alternate
suspect theory, in other words, saw it, some of the
dud did it. So I don't know who the quote
alternate suspect is going to be. But the law is,
you can't have a phantom some of the dud did it.
(23:30):
You've got to be able to point to a particular person.
And I learned that I believe it was Drew Findling,
who's a very wildly lawyer, is a good lawyer. Defense
attorney was going to bring or tried to bring in
statistics in a rape case, stating in this area there
(23:53):
have been seventy other rapes in this past year, and
so and so was convicted of these number, you know,
ten of them, and it could very well have been him,
and that was disallowed. And I can't remember specific the
specific case, but I remember arguing and looking up the law.
(24:16):
You have to they have to have a real individual.
It can't just be okay, this is what I was
thinking they might be doing. Do you remember that not
long before the quadruple Sleigh, that there was a home
invasion not far away, not separated by a long period
(24:39):
of time. That was a two floor two or three
four structure, and in the home lived several women as roommates,
and the person came in and I believe I'd have
to look it up again, it's off the top of
my head. They were clad in dark clothing with a
face mask and appear in one of the women's bedrooms
(25:02):
in the middle of the night with a knife, and
the victim kicked the purp in the stomach and the
purp ran off. I'm wondering if they're going to use
that example as the some other dude, although I think
that was probably coburger finally go ahead.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, but that's what I would want to know, what
type of car, what cell phone pays hit there. There's
a whole lot of things. Again, if they can't add it,
it's only going to hurt them, because listen, I know
people that can't watch boxing. So if they try to
include that, here's the deal. You want to work out,
(25:43):
but you have selected the most violent sport to work out.
You're not playing tennis, you're not going for a jog.
You claim you like to hike. Yeah, right, but you
choose boxing. And again, did you want to learn where
to punch a woman in the face to knock her
out so you could rape her. I don't think that's
gonna do him any good.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Well, let's think about these two theories. And this is
kind of thing that I would love to just sit
there and go to my quote mind palace. Okay, I
got that from Sherlock Holmes. But listen to this. I'm
thinking about their defenses and how they can reconcile, or
if they can reconcile, does that mean if they are
(26:26):
not able to be reconciled, that the defense will pick
one of them or just throw everything. It could have
been this, or it could have been this, or it
could have been this. Okay. What I'm talking about is
I know the lead lawyer, and Taylor told the judge
she found a lead on another suspect deep amongst the
(26:46):
tips collected by police. Well, that could be anybody, Okay,
including what the scenario, the true scenario we just discussed.
It could be that. But she also previously said in
court the defense planned to argue Coburger was framed by
someone who planted his DNA at the crime scene, and
(27:10):
that two people committed the crimes using two different weapons. Okay,
wait a minute, now I know where she's getting that.
One of those from from the DNA found on the stairwell,
which could come from anybody at any time. Or wait,
(27:30):
excuse me, and the glove found in the parking lot
with DNA on the inside of the glove. So that's
likely two different DNAs and she using them to bolster
the theory that there were two other individuals there and
not just that, but that they framed Coburger. Now here's
(27:54):
my question. Does that reconcile with her argument that she
found another suspect in the tips collected by police early
on or is that a second as an alternate theory
as some other dude, or is she going to blend them.
(28:18):
These are two lines, very distinct lines of defense. She
got a tip, she says, of another suspect early on
in the investigation, from the police tip. Somebody called it
a tip. Okay, is that what the sod some other
dude is going to be or is it going to
(28:39):
be these two other male DNAs found at the same
and they're framing cover or is she going to blend
them and claim that Go with me, this tip received
early on is in fact the same male who the
(29:00):
DNA was on the handrail and or in the glove,
and that individual framed Coburger by putting the knife sheath.
There is any of that true? No, none of it's true.
Obviously it's this direction. But think about it, Cheryl, Think
about it. She has this unknown DNA at the scene
(29:24):
out in the parking lot. Right when I was there,
I saw a glove in the parking lot of the
house where somebody had dropped it. I'm sure it's not
the same glove, but I remember pointing it out. It
was the flactination growling. Look at that. I said, Oh,
I think, I said, did y'all drop that? Because if
I thought one of them had dropped their glove. Anyway,
(29:45):
My point is that sounds real, Cheryl, that there was
an actual tip called in and that there is a
glove and there is DNA on the banister. Is it true?
Of of course, it's not true. But all it takes
is one is your ard to believe it.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
She's gonna use all of it because if one doesn't stick,
the other one might. She's going to give them as
much reasonable doubt as possible. Remember, he was out looking
at stars and hiking. She's throwing everything against that wall.
Here's what she's gonna do. She's gonna absolutely bring in
the tip. They're going to counter that by saying, you know, detective,
(30:30):
how many tips did y'all get for the tip line five,
six hundred and fourteen or whatever the number is, how
many panned out? None? Okay, great, move on. Let's talk
about DNA in the house. Let's talk about DNA on
your own car. If you've ever had a tire changed,
if you've had an old change, if you've ever had
any kind of repair of a headlight or anything, there
(30:53):
is DNA on your car from an unknown person. And
when you go and get your admissions and they go
into your car and plug that little machine in, he's
touching parts of your car inside the driver's door. Is
gonna be unknown male DNA. They can explain that away.
But yes, she's gonna try it. But just like the
(31:15):
hiking she knows that it isn't true. It's all misdirection.
And when you break this thing down to its most
elementary vein that runs through this whole thing, the car,
the cell phone going into airplane mode, that not just DNA,
but they You want me to believe that somebody put
(31:36):
his DNA on a knighte sheath and it happens to
be the same knife he freaking boughtd twice. It ain't
gonna work.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well, I don't think it's gonna work either, But now
as the time, okay, do you remember, I think it
was Reagan had something called the star Wars Defense, And
what the star Wars was millions and millions and trillions
and trillions to shoot down, first of all, to locate
(32:07):
incoming missiles or bombs and then shoot them down before
they got to us soil. That's what the state needs
to be doing right now, not just throwing out platitudes
like it's a mysteric said it's not going to work. Okay, fine,
what where did that get me? Nowhere? You have to
think about what they are going to do specifically, and
(32:32):
then you have to find a way to shoot it
down before it even happens. What I'm saying is like, Okay,
you just said something really helpful. The oil change is
a brilliant example, a brilliant example. They have to be
thinking now about how they're going to shoot down this
(32:53):
theory that there were two other purpose that chose Okay,
that that is could hook at you are, but two
other props that framed Coburger. See that is where to me,
you would lose a jury. You might have some curror
(33:16):
that buys in to Okay, there's mel DNA in the stairwell,
there was mail DNA in that glove out in the
parking lot. But then to go another step and say
and they were there to frame Coburger, Like how did
they frame him? How did they get his DNA on
that sheet? They need to be thinking of concrete arguments
(33:40):
to fight back against this defense. This is where the
defense is going. They're not going to claim he was insane.
They're not going to claim any other scenario placing him
there at the time of the crime. I don't think
they're going to go with he didn't do it, he
was out stargazing. That's what they're going to do.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I think it's going to be pretty easy, and I'm
sure they are sitting no, no, because you know, the
defense hadn't been quiet about what they're saying. So I'm
sure they've got counter counter counter.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Can I give you one more trial quote? Now I've
quoted Harry Potter, Sherlote Holmes and others. Now, let me
quote Caddy Shack. If you want to catch a varmit,
you got to think like a varmit. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
You're absolutely right, You're absolutely right. But you know when
they called the owner of the home, did you ever
have somebody come in and paint? Did you ever have
somebody come in and do electrical work? Did you ever
have somebody go upstairs to change a filter? They're going
to be able to explain those children had parties. You
want to talk about unknown male DNA. It should be
(34:54):
all over that house. That's not going to hold any
water here at all.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Only takes one It only takes one ger to screw
the whole thing up.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Hey, before I let you go, I got to tell people,
so y'all that really truly have only known Nancy Grace
from TV and podcast and interviews. You see a very smart, calculated,
forward thinking prosecutor. And she's quick on her feet, and
(35:27):
she's right down the solid line of truth and justice.
She is also, if you know her personally, very funny.
The other day, a buddy of mine sends me this clip, Nancy.
It's a podcaster and her name is Bunny, and she's
talking about you, and she says, have y'all seen the
(35:48):
queen of true crime, the woman that started it all?
We're all just following in her footsteps. This girl is beautiful,
she's blindheaded. I don't know her full name or anything,
but it's like the playboy bunnies behind her and she's
talking to a buddy of hers, and her buddy's like, yes,
I've seen it, and she goes, y'all if you have
(36:09):
not seen it, roll this clip what you And you're saying, yeah,
you know, the witness said, he's itty bitty diddy, and
then you throw to the guest you have and you say,
there's just no coming back from that. These girls they
(36:29):
fall out laughing, and then she says, if anybody knows
Nats and Grades, please tell her to come on here.
We love her, So I thought, I just got to
tell you that it is the greatest clip of the
two of them, just falling out because you're like itty bitty,
like hmm okay, pimp daddy. You know, we see what
(36:51):
they're working with. No wonder you're so mad all the
time and aggressive and hate.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Women so much.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
You hate women so much. But I'm gonna tell you
right now, if that's true, that he's that itdy bitty,
the wrong person was black male. I'd get the video
with that and say, Sean, you can release mine, but
I'm gonna release yours brother.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
The other day, what was I doing? Oh yeah, I
was on with the Harvey Levin from TMZ and Garret
Ghos was on. I think I accused him of being
on the Idy Biddy Diddy committee. That's the defense team.
That's when I'm referring to them as. But you know,
Brian still ain't half bad. He's a pretty good lawyer.
I kind of that throws the wrench in my works.
(37:35):
And I'll tell you. I'll tell you another thing I noticed,
and this time I'm gonna tell you I have to
go Gloria. Is that still started off with what I
always call the Andy of Maybury approach with one of
the female witnesses, where you're getting the information you want
on cross but you're not being a total a hole
(37:57):
about it. You're not tearing them any booty hole and
being somewhat genial. And then over in the corner is
Shawn Holmes at the defense table, moving around and twirling around,
and you know what does that face in his hands
and twitching and uh and then still took a different
(38:18):
tack and started being really mean, steering to the witness.
I wonder if Diddy's steering that ship, because you know
what they say, a man that represents himself has a
fool for a client and is so Diddy's calling the
shots on this. They're going down fast. Can't wait to
(38:40):
find out if he's going to take the stand. And
I'll leave you on that note, Bye, Gloria, were leaving
my sugar,
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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