October 8, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode of Zone 7, Sheryl McCollum welcomes back Georgia Durante, whose remarkable life story took another unbelievable turn. While watching a true crime documentary, Georgia did not expect to see her photograph among evidence connected to convicted serial killer Joseph Naso. Sheryl and Georgia discuss how that moment unfolded, how it ties to the unsolved “Alphabet Killer” cases in Rochester, New York, and the shocking realization that Georgia once worked with a man who would later be convicted of multiple murders. Georgia also reflects on her plan to confront him in prison, and why she believes she might have been “the one who got away.”
Guest Bio and Links:
Georgia Durante is a former model, getaway driver for the mob, and author of The Company She Keeps. Her modeling career began at the age of 12, and by 17 she was one of America’s most recognizable faces as the "Kodak Girl.” After escaping an abusive marriage and a life tied to organized crime, Georgia rebuilt herself as one of Hollywood’s most sought-after stunt drivers. Listeners can learn more about Georgia at her website https://www.georgiadurante.com/ or on Facebook @GeorgiaDurante.
The Company She Keeps by Georgia Durante
Watch the 2025 docuseries Death Row Confidential: Secrets of a Serial Killer on Prime Video or Oxygen.
Missed Georgia Durante’s first Zone 7 episode? The Company She Keeps | Georgia Durante
Highlights:
- (0:00) Sheryl welcomes back Georgia Durante to Zone 7
- (2:30) "They pulled this picture out of the ground that the serial killer had buried, and it was my picture.” Watching a documentary and realizing she is part of the case
- (3:15) Modeling for a photographer who turned out to be serial killer Joseph Naso
- (7:00) Potential links between Naso and the unsolved “Alphabet Killer” murders in Rochester, New York
- (13:00) "I think it was chicken soup that saved my life.”
- (18:45) The stunned detective’s reaction: “I’m so thankful you’re still living.”
- (20:30) Planning a prison interview with Joseph Naso, and Sheryl shares that retired FBI agent and profiler Julia Cowley has agreed to help Georgia find answers
- (26:15) Sheryl closes with a quote from Joseph Naso’s 2013 trial
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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award-winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnline, forensic and crime scene expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. She is the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a national collaboration that advances techniques for solving cold cases and assists families and law enforcement with unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnappings.
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
- Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Zone seven welcomes back Georgia Duranti. Y'all remember Georgia. She's
the former real man of the Mob, former model, and
former stunt car driver for TV in the movies. She
has had a fascinating life. But tonight she joins us
(00:29):
with an unbelievable story, an addition to her life that
you are not gonna believe, y'all. It ain't like her
life wasn't already interested, Okay, Georgia had to go and
make it even more just shocking. So you know, when
there's a new true crime documentary and you plan your
(00:50):
whole evening around it. You get your snacks ready, you
put your phone on you, you snuggle up with your dog.
You tell your friends and family that, hey, we're going
to be in a group chat. We're going to talk
about this new documentary. That's what Georgia was doing, just
relaxing watching a serial killer show like we all do. Georgia,
(01:11):
tell them what happened?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, got my Jammy's on, got all ready to watch
a good crime show.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It was called.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Death Row Confidential Secrets of a Serial Killer. I had
taped it the week before so I wouldn't miss it.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So Anyway, I get in bed, turn the TV.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
On after a long day, and they're showing how this
serial killer had killed twenty six women and they were
trying to figure out I guess he had a cellmate
or a guy that used to meet him for lunch
in the yard every day, and he started telling him
(01:57):
about all the murders that he committed. And this guy
took took notes, and as soon as he got back
to his cell he wrote down everything that he said.
He didn't miss anything. After ten years of taking these notes,
he gets a hold of the cold case detective and
(02:19):
turns the notes over to him so he can try
to match these victims up to you know, who they
knew was missing, right, So all of a sudden they
pull this picture out of the ground that the serial
killer had buried and it was my picture, and they
(02:43):
thought I was a victim and they were trying to
figure out which victim I was.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Now, George, hold on, hold on, I'm just telling you
that's one of those things, like the call is coming
from inside the house. I mean, you are at home
in the band lights are out, snuddled in and you're
looking at your own photograph.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
It was, and the thing was is that he was?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
This guy was He was a photographer whose name was
Joseph Nasso. He hired me fifty years ago and he
had me out in the woods and he took this
picture and blew it up to an eleven by fourteen
and he buried. It's the only picture he buried. And
(03:37):
now I'm thinking.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Why didn't he kill me?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
He had me in the woods, you know, the only
thing I could think of. He kind of chose women
that were prostitutes and drug addicts and you know, women
that wouldn't necessarily be missed. And at that time, I
was the Kodak girl. I was on TV every day.
(04:01):
I was like in the newspapers, you know, doing ads,
and so maybe I was too. Maybe by killing me
would bring more attention to him.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Definitely, that would definitely have happened. Yes, no question. Now
let me ask you, do you remember this photo shoot.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I don't remember the shoot, but I remember the outfit
and I remember him. I remember his face. I mean,
I could I could see having a conversation with him.
I mean, he's that that familiar. Yeah, But I don't
actually remember the actual shoot or why we were shooting anything,
because he wasn't a Kodak photographer. He wasn't one of
(04:41):
the photographers you know that were you know, there were
always there that you always worked for, you know. And
another reason could be Rochester Institute of Technology where it
was a photograph school. Sometimes the students would call because
(05:03):
they want to build up their portfolio and I would
model for them. Could have been that, or I had
I had a nightclub with my husband at the time,
and he could have come in there. I could have
met him there, and that would be another reason why
he wouldn't do anything. Because my husband was a mob guy.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
He knew that he's taking his life in his own hands,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So you do remember though, because I've seen the photographs,
and the photographs are beautiful. You're clearly in the woods,
like remotely, and you know you didn't really know this person.
How crazy is it that you're the only photograph he capp.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well, it's driving me crazy, it really is. Now. This
was on the Oxygen Channel. Dick Wolf's production company did this,
and there they're asking me, if you know, if I
would like to do a follow up, they will do
another episode talking about just what we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And uh, And I said to them, I want to
I want to go into the prison. I want to
see this guy face to face, and I want to
ask him why he didn't kill me right on, because
I got to know, I really got I'm gonna I'm for.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
The rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I'm gonna wonder you know that's right.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, No, I think you absolutely need to meet with him.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And you know what I thought, because you know, I
read a little bit about him and he's he's got
a pretty big ego. So the first thing I would
say when I walk in is, hey, Joe, remember me.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
That's right. And you know he kept diaries, so there
could be some information about you that maybe hasn't been
released yet that's in those diaries.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Well, let's see, this is another thing that they're discovering
by the diaries. At that time. Back in like the
seventy two seventy three, we had a serial killer in
Rochester and this guy was killing women with the same
(07:18):
initials Darlene Drennan, Carol Comer. You know, they had the
same first and last initials. They dubbed him the alphabet killer.
But they never caught him. Now, they always suspected him
but they never had proof that it was him.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Then he moved to.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
California's where he did all the rest of the murders,
a couple in Las Vegas too. So anyway, now with
the guy's notes, he is he's talking about different things
that he did in Rochester where he picked up these
girls and everything. So now you know they're doing all
(08:02):
they're opening up that whole case again back in.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Rochester, absolutely, because he did live there at the time.
You're absolutely right, and you know, just in case everybody
is not completely clear that he did in fact take
pictures of you. I do want to mention not only
did he have this photograph that he took the time
to put in some kind of encasement like a jar
(08:25):
that he buried, which has taken even more time to
make sure that he, you know, would know where this was.
Decades later, he had the negatives from the photo shoot.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
He had pictures of hundreds of girls, but mine was
the only one that he blew up and buried.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Your photo shoot happened between nineteen seventy and nineteen seventy one,
somewhere in that period of time, or seventy two or
seventy two, okay, and you know, if you do get
to meet with him, if he will meet with you,
he may remember. It may shock you how much he
remembers about you.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, I was going to just bring like a small
photograph of what he buried if he didn't remember, and
show it to him, and that would spark his memory
for sure. But also, you know, because he's got such
a large ego, I was gonna. I don't know, I
(09:22):
may have just charmed him. I don't know. Maybe I was.
I killed him with kindness or something. But I'm gonna
say to him, if I do have the opportunity to
meet him, I'm when I said, you know, Joe, you're
ninety two years old. He said, you're going to die soon.
He said, don't you want to go out on top?
I mean Ted Bundy killed thirty six women, Gaysey killed
(09:48):
thirty eight. Don't you want to like add him up
a little bit? And let's defence to me Joe the Rochester,
the Rochester murders.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Come on, I there, you know it used.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
To No I think that's valid, But you know what
it could be. It could be you were the most
famous person he ever photographed. I mean, you were super famous.
You did Kodat, But you also did Virginia Slim, you
did other commercials that were huge in the seventies.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, Well, the biggest thing in the seventies was the
life size cutout of the Summer the Summer Girl poster
that was in all the camera stores and drug stores
all over the world.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Right, So, I mean you had to be the most
famous person he ever took a picture of.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
No, maybe, I don't know. He had a lot of
pictures there.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
But was anybody else somebody you knew? Was anybody else
of major? That's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
No, he used to put ads in the paper in
California for models, and people would answer the ads, and
that's how he got most of the girls. But what
I just I'm still flabbergasted.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I can't even you don't know what you've got to
You've got to.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Think you're a victim.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Oh, it's horrible. It's horrible. And to me it would
be a little I don't know, it would freak me
out to think this guy had a picture of me
that he blew up and he buried, and lord knows
what else he kept. I mean, he kept the negatives,
But I mean maybe he had other pictures that he
carried in his wallet. Who knows what he did.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
What I did was I tried. I tried to find
that cold case detective and I figured out what his
name was, and I googled him and I found his
website and I emailed him and I said, the woman
that you think is a victim from Mount Tam is me.
I said, that is me. That is not who you
(11:58):
think it is. Because what they did with they did
a facial recognition and they came up with this other
girl who didn't look anything like that picture, right, And
so I said, your facial recognition is not working. That
is not that girl.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
But he said.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
The next episode that they aired last Saturday was they
showed that picture to the mother of that victim and
she said that was not her daughter. But you know,
but it's still a mystery. They haven't answered the question
of who this woman is. So if they do this
(12:37):
other series, they've got to get the green light from
Oxygen to go ahead and do it, then they'll be
able to explain about that picture.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Well, you know, you're right. His other victims were sex workers.
They were strangled, and they were dumped in rural areas.
The same type of area he photographed you in.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Another interest thing was somebody sent me an article of
one of the girls that he didn't kill. He was
photographing her, and she actually testified in his trial. But
when he was photographing her, she said, you know, he
started out very nice and pleasant, and then he had
(13:19):
a pair of socks with a hole in it and
wanted me to wear. And when I refused to wear him,
that's when he got like a little aggressive and his
whole tone changed. And I guess they were filming in
her apartment, and so she made him some homemade chicken soup.
She said, he loved that soup. He was so happy
(13:42):
to have that soup. And she said, I think it
was the chicken soup that saved my life. And then
that I thought, huh, I actually And I couldn't remember
what photographer it was, but he had a studio set
up in his apartment and we did a shoot and
(14:04):
when we were done shooting, he was making this potato
recipe and he taught me how to make it. And
every time I make it, I always think of this guy.
But I can't remember who it was, but that could
have been him, That could have been maybe she gave
him chicken soup.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I gave him chicken soup for the soul. You know,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Well, the good thing is if he is, you know,
the alphabet killer, your initials didn't match. You didn't have
the same first and last initials. That might have helped too,
because you know, when he's confessing to these twenty six women,
even in his diary, there's ten women that are unnamed,
and then he's got these photographs that are horrible that
(14:51):
they're trying to match up to see who are these victims?
Can we put a name to any of the faces?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Right?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And that was the ten that he said were his
top ten. They weren't just the ten.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
That's right. That's right. Well, listen, you know, you and
I can sit here and talk all night about why
we think he did what he did, but I would
be putting a lot of my experience in education and
I'd be guessing. But I did reach out to my buddy,
Julia Cally. Julia is a retired FBI profiler, and she
(15:31):
has a podcast called The Consult and it's a group
of friends and they're all FBI trained profilers, and they're
gonna look at this for you. To give you a
solid answer.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Oh, that'd be great, won't that be wonderful?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, and let me tell you she's so smart. Oh
my gosh, when I tell you, she's one of the
smartest people I've ever worked on a case with. She's
got information and insight like nobody else. And hopefully she
can put a little bit of your trepidation to rest.
She can maybe tell you that he was in love
with you, didn't want to kill you. Who knows. But
(16:09):
we're gonna let her take it from here. But you know,
I think you and I we need to get in
the truck and drive up to the prison. Yeah. I
think you walking in there. I think it would do
you a lot of good.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah. Now, they said they can't bring the cameras in there,
and if we did, he wouldn't talk. If it was
just me one on one with him, he may open up. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I think it needs to be just you, not for TV.
I think it needs to be for you, only you,
by you. Is there anything else they have told you
about him that made you have a memory, made you think, hey,
wait a minute, is where he took me in the
woods where he dropped a body? Or did he get
(16:56):
you to drive your own car and meeting there. Did
he pick you up and take you How did that
happen or do you just not remember at all.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I don't remember at all, but I would usually I
would usually you know, meet them at the location whatever,
you know.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
But I think what I'm holding there is.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Cornstalks, like like the end of the season, you know
how they just that's what it looks like to me.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
It looks like cornstalks.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Well, the pictures are gorgeous. I'm going to tell you that.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Oh thanks, honey, But I.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Mean there's something kind of freaky about it now, Yes, Well,
when you were doing all the work with Kodak and
all the other things you were doing in the TV
and the movies. I guess for me there's such a
I have to go back in my head and again
I'm gonna let Julia, you know, do her thing. But
(17:50):
I can't imagine if in fact, you were the most
famous person that he ever dealt with and privately got
to you know, have you in a photo shoot and
kept those negatives and you know, took it a step
further to me, maybe hopefully you were more like the unattainable.
(18:13):
You were married, You were married to a mobster, so
he wasn't gonna be able to get to you anyway.
You weren't going to leave your husband for him. It
wasn't like he could really stand a shot with you.
So maybe it just stayed in this. You know, she was,
you know, the one I chased. She's the one I
fantasized about but was never going to hurt you, the
(18:35):
one that got away, the one that got away. Yes, yeah,
I mean straight up. I mean that to me is
what it almost sounds like.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Now you sent an email and the detective did call
you back.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yes, and he was like just flabber gusted. He said,
oh my god. He says, you have no idea how
many nights I've been up trying to feigure out who
you were. He said, I am so thankful you're still living.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
That is unbelievable. And you know, this is a good
lesson for people. When you're doing a show or you're
working a cold case, you don't ever know who you
might freak out or upset, you know, so you know,
it's a good lesson I think for all of us,
just to say, hey, do you know this person? Instead
of putting it you know, hey, we think she's dead.
(19:32):
You know, it could have been a little gentler.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Well it was so bizarre.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
But you know what all of my friends say, only.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
You, only you, Only you. Yep, only you, because I'll
tell you. Even when I first heard your story the
you know, years and years ago, I'm like, man, you know,
the fourteen year old me was so jealous if I
could have driven a car for the mob, I mean unbelievable.
(20:04):
And then to become a stunt car driver. I mean,
I don't think there's anything cooler. Max and I were
talking about that right before you came on, and even
Max was like, yeah, I mean driving through fire, skidding
on a you know, wet road, doing a three sixty,
jumping a ramp. I mean, it just sounds like heaven.
And again, your life has been so just out of
(20:27):
this world fascinating, and you think, well, that's it, you know,
I've done all that cool stuff, and then bam, just.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
When I thought it was over right.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeap, you were just going to have a quiet little
you know. Nope, not Georgia, honey. So again with Julia,
what I think they're going to be able to help
you understand is they will be able to get into
his head. They will understand his pattern, they will understand
how he selected victims, and they will be able to
(21:00):
give you some solid.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Answers that would be so fantastic. Are you gonna let
her listen to this show so she can go from
there or what?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yes, I actually invited her to be with us tonight,
but she couldn't. She had a prior engagement. And so
what's gonna probably happen. I'm just gonna give it to her,
and then probably what you'll do is have an episode
on her podcast where they can have you on and
then break down everything they did to explain it to everybody,
(21:32):
and then I know, and we can listen to it
on the way to the prison.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
You're gonna come with me, for sure?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Oh, no doubt. I'm driving, Are you kidding? And I'm
gonna wait out there and just be on pins and
needles till you get out. But absolutely I'm going with you.
There's no doubt about it. But I'll tell you something, Georgia,
I have always admired you, and you know part of
the thing that's happening now. I know this was scary.
I know this was one of those things that you're
(22:02):
a bi rhythms changed, you know. Yeah, but you handled
it like you've handled everything with such good humor, with
grace and just saying, hey, I'm going to confront this
head on. I mean, let's sit with him. I mean,
I think that's just a testament to who you are.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Well, everybody's telling me, don't do it, don't go there.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
You know, these people have people on the outside, or
there's copycats and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
You know that that doesn't phaze me at all.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Listen, he worked alone. Ain't nobody thinking about him. He
has nobody on the outside. He done that. I flat
tail you. I mean nobody's He has no power. The
power sits with you, And the only reason for you
to go there and sit with him is for your
own just comfort and just being aware that, Okay, this happened.
(22:56):
I just want to know why, what were you thinking?
I honestly think he will tell you. I do think so.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I think he will.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I don't know if he'll open up about the murderers
back then, but I think he will tell me that.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
If anybody can get in a talk, it's going to
be you. Because listen, my granddaddy used to tell us,
if you want to know whether or not a boy
likes you, pay attention to what he does and doesn't do.
If he's not going out of his way to call
you or come see you or remember your birthday, it'll
be obvious he took extra steps to preserve your picture
(23:35):
that he blew up to me. Now again, I'm gonna
let Julia do her thing. But to me, when a
man takes extra steps, that's important. So I wouldn't ignore.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
That fact and buried it and buried it and buried
it and buried it.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Well, it could be. Then listen, now, I will say this.
I feel two ways about it. It does kind of
freak me out on one hand, But on the other hand,
there are people that bury money, they bury treasure, they
bury things that are important to them. They bury things
they want to keep and have them be pristine. So again,
I'm gonna let Julia do her thing, but it could
(24:16):
be again because of the way he felt about you.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Well, I'll be interested.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I'll be interested in to see how she breaks us
all apart and puts it all together.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Oh, me too, me too. And again that's why I
don't want to guess. I don't want to give you
my two cents because I mean, that's about worth two cents.
I want Julia and company to take a look at it,
because then again you will have solid, definitive factual information.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Well, I really appreciate that. That's really super we're doing.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
That, all right. I appreciate you, and we're gonna make
plans to get up to the prison and when we
get off here, we'll start picking a date. Okay, Well,
I appreciate you so much. And you know this is
gonna be such an asterisk to your book. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
October first they're going to Amazon, Hulu and one other,
and then on the twentieth is going to be Netflix.
So just keep your fingers crossed that one of them
pick it up and this will be another episode.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Well, I told you for years it's got to be,
and this one is going to be one of those
episodes people are like, no way, you gotta be kidding.
But no bit happened because, honey, when you called me,
I had not watched it. I hadn't seen this documentary.
And when you first called me and you were like,
you're not gonna believe this, I'm sitting there, I'm watching
this true crime documentary about a serial killer and then
(25:42):
my picture pops up. I'm like, wait a minute, what
Like I couldn't even process what you were telling me
because it was just unbelievable. But hey, here's the other
cool thing. With one of the possible primes, you solved it.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
God's they solved that part of the puzzle.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
You did. This is not a cold case, because you know,
when we ever, anytime we ever have a call out,
the first thing we have to do is determine whether
a crime has been committed. So the very first step
an investigation, you did it. No crime here, perfect, y'all.
I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I
(26:22):
always do with a quote, I am not the monster
that killed these women. I dated, I danced, I took pictures,
but I don't kill people. And there's no evidence of that.
Joseph Nazou representing himself at trial in twenty thirteen. I'm
(26:44):
Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven.
Zone seven welcomes back Georgia Duranti. Y'all remember Georgia. She's
the former real man of the Mob, former model, and
former stunt car driver for TV in the movies. She
has had a fascinating life. But tonight she joins us
(00:29):
with an unbelievable story, an addition to her life that
you are not gonna believe, y'all. It ain't like her
life wasn't already interested, Okay, Georgia had to go and
make it even more just shocking. So you know, when
there's a new true crime documentary and you plan your
(00:50):
whole evening around it. You get your snacks ready, you
put your phone on you, you snuggle up with your dog.
You tell your friends and family that, hey, we're going
to be in a group chat. We're going to talk
about this new documentary. That's what Georgia was doing, just
relaxing watching a serial killer show like we all do. Georgia,
(01:11):
tell them what happened?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, got my Jammy's on, got all ready to watch
a good crime show.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It was called.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Death Row Confidential Secrets of a Serial Killer. I had
taped it the week before so I wouldn't miss it.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So Anyway, I get in bed, turn the TV.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
On after a long day, and they're showing how this
serial killer had killed twenty six women and they were
trying to figure out I guess he had a cellmate
or a guy that used to meet him for lunch
in the yard every day, and he started telling him
(01:57):
about all the murders that he committed. And this guy
took took notes, and as soon as he got back
to his cell he wrote down everything that he said.
He didn't miss anything. After ten years of taking these notes,
he gets a hold of the cold case detective and
(02:19):
turns the notes over to him so he can try
to match these victims up to you know, who they
knew was missing, right, So all of a sudden they
pull this picture out of the ground that the serial
killer had buried and it was my picture, and they
(02:43):
thought I was a victim and they were trying to
figure out which victim I was.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Now, George, hold on, hold on, I'm just telling you
that's one of those things, like the call is coming
from inside the house. I mean, you are at home
in the band lights are out, snuddled in and you're
looking at your own photograph.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
It was, and the thing was is that he was?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
This guy was He was a photographer whose name was
Joseph Nasso. He hired me fifty years ago and he
had me out in the woods and he took this
picture and blew it up to an eleven by fourteen
and he buried. It's the only picture he buried. And
(03:37):
now I'm thinking.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Why didn't he kill me?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
He had me in the woods, you know, the only
thing I could think of. He kind of chose women
that were prostitutes and drug addicts and you know, women
that wouldn't necessarily be missed. And at that time, I
was the Kodak girl. I was on TV every day.
(04:01):
I was like in the newspapers, you know, doing ads,
and so maybe I was too. Maybe by killing me
would bring more attention to him.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Definitely, that would definitely have happened. Yes, no question. Now
let me ask you, do you remember this photo shoot.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I don't remember the shoot, but I remember the outfit
and I remember him. I remember his face. I mean,
I could I could see having a conversation with him.
I mean, he's that that familiar. Yeah, But I don't
actually remember the actual shoot or why we were shooting anything,
because he wasn't a Kodak photographer. He wasn't one of
(04:41):
the photographers you know that were you know, there were
always there that you always worked for, you know. And
another reason could be Rochester Institute of Technology where it
was a photograph school. Sometimes the students would call because
(05:03):
they want to build up their portfolio and I would
model for them. Could have been that, or I had
I had a nightclub with my husband at the time,
and he could have come in there. I could have
met him there, and that would be another reason why
he wouldn't do anything. Because my husband was a mob guy.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
He knew that he's taking his life in his own hands,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So you do remember though, because I've seen the photographs,
and the photographs are beautiful. You're clearly in the woods,
like remotely, and you know you didn't really know this person.
How crazy is it that you're the only photograph he capp.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well, it's driving me crazy, it really is. Now. This
was on the Oxygen Channel. Dick Wolf's production company did this,
and there they're asking me, if you know, if I
would like to do a follow up, they will do
another episode talking about just what we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And uh, And I said to them, I want to
I want to go into the prison. I want to
see this guy face to face, and I want to
ask him why he didn't kill me right on, because
I got to know, I really got I'm gonna I'm for.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
The rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I'm gonna wonder you know that's right.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, No, I think you absolutely need to meet with him.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And you know what I thought, because you know, I
read a little bit about him and he's he's got
a pretty big ego. So the first thing I would
say when I walk in is, hey, Joe, remember me.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
That's right. And you know he kept diaries, so there
could be some information about you that maybe hasn't been
released yet that's in those diaries.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Well, let's see, this is another thing that they're discovering
by the diaries. At that time. Back in like the
seventy two seventy three, we had a serial killer in
Rochester and this guy was killing women with the same
(07:18):
initials Darlene Drennan, Carol Comer. You know, they had the
same first and last initials. They dubbed him the alphabet killer.
But they never caught him. Now, they always suspected him
but they never had proof that it was him.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Then he moved to.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
California's where he did all the rest of the murders,
a couple in Las Vegas too. So anyway, now with
the guy's notes, he is he's talking about different things
that he did in Rochester where he picked up these
girls and everything. So now you know they're doing all
(08:02):
they're opening up that whole case again back in.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Rochester, absolutely, because he did live there at the time.
You're absolutely right, and you know, just in case everybody
is not completely clear that he did in fact take
pictures of you. I do want to mention not only
did he have this photograph that he took the time
to put in some kind of encasement like a jar
(08:25):
that he buried, which has taken even more time to
make sure that he, you know, would know where this was.
Decades later, he had the negatives from the photo shoot.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
He had pictures of hundreds of girls, but mine was
the only one that he blew up and buried.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Your photo shoot happened between nineteen seventy and nineteen seventy one,
somewhere in that period of time, or seventy two or
seventy two, okay, and you know, if you do get
to meet with him, if he will meet with you,
he may remember. It may shock you how much he
remembers about you.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, I was going to just bring like a small
photograph of what he buried if he didn't remember, and
show it to him, and that would spark his memory
for sure. But also, you know, because he's got such
a large ego, I was gonna. I don't know, I
(09:22):
may have just charmed him. I don't know. Maybe I was.
I killed him with kindness or something. But I'm gonna
say to him, if I do have the opportunity to
meet him, I'm when I said, you know, Joe, you're
ninety two years old. He said, you're going to die soon.
He said, don't you want to go out on top?
I mean Ted Bundy killed thirty six women, Gaysey killed
(09:48):
thirty eight. Don't you want to like add him up
a little bit? And let's defence to me Joe the Rochester,
the Rochester murders.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Come on, I there, you know it used.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
To No I think that's valid, But you know what
it could be. It could be you were the most
famous person he ever photographed. I mean, you were super famous.
You did Kodat, But you also did Virginia Slim, you
did other commercials that were huge in the seventies.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, Well, the biggest thing in the seventies was the
life size cutout of the Summer the Summer Girl poster
that was in all the camera stores and drug stores
all over the world.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Right, So, I mean you had to be the most
famous person he ever took a picture of.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
No, maybe, I don't know. He had a lot of
pictures there.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
But was anybody else somebody you knew? Was anybody else
of major? That's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
No, he used to put ads in the paper in
California for models, and people would answer the ads, and
that's how he got most of the girls. But what
I just I'm still flabbergasted.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I can't even you don't know what you've got to
You've got to.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Think you're a victim.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Oh, it's horrible. It's horrible. And to me it would
be a little I don't know, it would freak me
out to think this guy had a picture of me
that he blew up and he buried, and lord knows
what else he kept. I mean, he kept the negatives,
But I mean maybe he had other pictures that he
carried in his wallet. Who knows what he did.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
What I did was I tried. I tried to find
that cold case detective and I figured out what his
name was, and I googled him and I found his
website and I emailed him and I said, the woman
that you think is a victim from Mount Tam is me.
I said, that is me. That is not who you
(11:58):
think it is. Because what they did with they did
a facial recognition and they came up with this other
girl who didn't look anything like that picture, right, And
so I said, your facial recognition is not working. That
is not that girl.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
But he said.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
The next episode that they aired last Saturday was they
showed that picture to the mother of that victim and
she said that was not her daughter. But you know,
but it's still a mystery. They haven't answered the question
of who this woman is. So if they do this
(12:37):
other series, they've got to get the green light from
Oxygen to go ahead and do it, then they'll be
able to explain about that picture.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Well, you know, you're right. His other victims were sex workers.
They were strangled, and they were dumped in rural areas.
The same type of area he photographed you in.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Another interest thing was somebody sent me an article of
one of the girls that he didn't kill. He was
photographing her, and she actually testified in his trial. But
when he was photographing her, she said, you know, he
started out very nice and pleasant, and then he had
(13:19):
a pair of socks with a hole in it and
wanted me to wear. And when I refused to wear him,
that's when he got like a little aggressive and his
whole tone changed. And I guess they were filming in
her apartment, and so she made him some homemade chicken soup.
She said, he loved that soup. He was so happy
(13:42):
to have that soup. And she said, I think it
was the chicken soup that saved my life. And then
that I thought, huh, I actually And I couldn't remember
what photographer it was, but he had a studio set
up in his apartment and we did a shoot and
(14:04):
when we were done shooting, he was making this potato
recipe and he taught me how to make it. And
every time I make it, I always think of this guy.
But I can't remember who it was, but that could
have been him, That could have been maybe she gave
him chicken soup.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I gave him chicken soup for the soul. You know,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Well, the good thing is if he is, you know,
the alphabet killer, your initials didn't match. You didn't have
the same first and last initials. That might have helped too,
because you know, when he's confessing to these twenty six women,
even in his diary, there's ten women that are unnamed,
and then he's got these photographs that are horrible that
(14:51):
they're trying to match up to see who are these victims?
Can we put a name to any of the faces?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Right?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And that was the ten that he said were his
top ten. They weren't just the ten.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
That's right. That's right. Well, listen, you know, you and
I can sit here and talk all night about why
we think he did what he did, but I would
be putting a lot of my experience in education and
I'd be guessing. But I did reach out to my buddy,
Julia Cally. Julia is a retired FBI profiler, and she
(15:31):
has a podcast called The Consult and it's a group
of friends and they're all FBI trained profilers, and they're
gonna look at this for you. To give you a
solid answer.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Oh, that'd be great, won't that be wonderful?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, and let me tell you she's so smart. Oh
my gosh, when I tell you, she's one of the
smartest people I've ever worked on a case with. She's
got information and insight like nobody else. And hopefully she
can put a little bit of your trepidation to rest.
She can maybe tell you that he was in love
with you, didn't want to kill you. Who knows. But
(16:09):
we're gonna let her take it from here. But you know,
I think you and I we need to get in
the truck and drive up to the prison. Yeah. I
think you walking in there. I think it would do
you a lot of good.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah. Now, they said they can't bring the cameras in there,
and if we did, he wouldn't talk. If it was
just me one on one with him, he may open up. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I think it needs to be just you, not for TV.
I think it needs to be for you, only you,
by you. Is there anything else they have told you
about him that made you have a memory, made you think, hey,
wait a minute, is where he took me in the
woods where he dropped a body? Or did he get
(16:56):
you to drive your own car and meeting there. Did
he pick you up and take you How did that
happen or do you just not remember at all.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I don't remember at all, but I would usually I
would usually you know, meet them at the location whatever,
you know.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
But I think what I'm holding there is.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Cornstalks, like like the end of the season, you know
how they just that's what it looks like to me.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
It looks like cornstalks.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Well, the pictures are gorgeous. I'm going to tell you that.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Oh thanks, honey, But I.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Mean there's something kind of freaky about it now, Yes, Well,
when you were doing all the work with Kodak and
all the other things you were doing in the TV
and the movies. I guess for me there's such a
I have to go back in my head and again
I'm gonna let Julia, you know, do her thing. But
(17:50):
I can't imagine if in fact, you were the most
famous person that he ever dealt with and privately got
to you know, have you in a photo shoot and
kept those negatives and you know, took it a step
further to me, maybe hopefully you were more like the unattainable.
(18:13):
You were married, You were married to a mobster, so
he wasn't gonna be able to get to you anyway.
You weren't going to leave your husband for him. It
wasn't like he could really stand a shot with you.
So maybe it just stayed in this. You know, she was,
you know, the one I chased. She's the one I
fantasized about but was never going to hurt you, the
(18:35):
one that got away, the one that got away. Yes, yeah,
I mean straight up. I mean that to me is
what it almost sounds like.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Now you sent an email and the detective did call
you back.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yes, and he was like just flabber gusted. He said,
oh my god. He says, you have no idea how
many nights I've been up trying to feigure out who
you were. He said, I am so thankful you're still living.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
That is unbelievable. And you know, this is a good
lesson for people. When you're doing a show or you're
working a cold case, you don't ever know who you
might freak out or upset, you know, so you know,
it's a good lesson I think for all of us,
just to say, hey, do you know this person? Instead
of putting it you know, hey, we think she's dead.
(19:32):
You know, it could have been a little gentler.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Well it was so bizarre.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
But you know what all of my friends say, only.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
You, only you, Only you. Yep, only you, because I'll
tell you. Even when I first heard your story the
you know, years and years ago, I'm like, man, you know,
the fourteen year old me was so jealous if I
could have driven a car for the mob, I mean unbelievable.
(20:04):
And then to become a stunt car driver. I mean,
I don't think there's anything cooler. Max and I were
talking about that right before you came on, and even
Max was like, yeah, I mean driving through fire, skidding
on a you know, wet road, doing a three sixty,
jumping a ramp. I mean, it just sounds like heaven.
And again, your life has been so just out of
(20:27):
this world fascinating, and you think, well, that's it, you know,
I've done all that cool stuff, and then bam, just.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
When I thought it was over right.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeap, you were just going to have a quiet little
you know. Nope, not Georgia, honey. So again with Julia,
what I think they're going to be able to help
you understand is they will be able to get into
his head. They will understand his pattern, they will understand
how he selected victims, and they will be able to
(21:00):
give you some solid.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Answers that would be so fantastic. Are you gonna let
her listen to this show so she can go from
there or what?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yes, I actually invited her to be with us tonight,
but she couldn't. She had a prior engagement. And so
what's gonna probably happen. I'm just gonna give it to her,
and then probably what you'll do is have an episode
on her podcast where they can have you on and
then break down everything they did to explain it to everybody,
(21:32):
and then I know, and we can listen to it
on the way to the prison.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
You're gonna come with me, for sure?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Oh, no doubt. I'm driving, Are you kidding? And I'm
gonna wait out there and just be on pins and
needles till you get out. But absolutely I'm going with you.
There's no doubt about it. But I'll tell you something, Georgia,
I have always admired you, and you know part of
the thing that's happening now. I know this was scary.
I know this was one of those things that you're
(22:02):
a bi rhythms changed, you know. Yeah, but you handled
it like you've handled everything with such good humor, with
grace and just saying, hey, I'm going to confront this
head on. I mean, let's sit with him. I mean,
I think that's just a testament to who you are.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Well, everybody's telling me, don't do it, don't go there.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
You know, these people have people on the outside, or
there's copycats and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
You know that that doesn't phaze me at all.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Listen, he worked alone. Ain't nobody thinking about him. He
has nobody on the outside. He done that. I flat
tail you. I mean nobody's He has no power. The
power sits with you, And the only reason for you
to go there and sit with him is for your
own just comfort and just being aware that, Okay, this happened.
(22:56):
I just want to know why, what were you thinking?
I honestly think he will tell you. I do think so.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I think he will.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I don't know if he'll open up about the murderers
back then, but I think he will tell me that.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
If anybody can get in a talk, it's going to
be you. Because listen, my granddaddy used to tell us,
if you want to know whether or not a boy
likes you, pay attention to what he does and doesn't do.
If he's not going out of his way to call
you or come see you or remember your birthday, it'll
be obvious he took extra steps to preserve your picture
(23:35):
that he blew up to me. Now again, I'm gonna
let Julia do her thing. But to me, when a
man takes extra steps, that's important. So I wouldn't ignore.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
That fact and buried it and buried it and buried
it and buried it.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Well, it could be. Then listen, now, I will say this.
I feel two ways about it. It does kind of
freak me out on one hand, But on the other hand,
there are people that bury money, they bury treasure, they
bury things that are important to them. They bury things
they want to keep and have them be pristine. So again,
I'm gonna let Julia do her thing, but it could
(24:16):
be again because of the way he felt about you.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Well, I'll be interested.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I'll be interested in to see how she breaks us
all apart and puts it all together.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Oh, me too, me too. And again that's why I
don't want to guess. I don't want to give you
my two cents because I mean, that's about worth two cents.
I want Julia and company to take a look at it,
because then again you will have solid, definitive factual information.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Well, I really appreciate that. That's really super we're doing.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
That, all right. I appreciate you, and we're gonna make
plans to get up to the prison and when we
get off here, we'll start picking a date. Okay, Well,
I appreciate you so much. And you know this is
gonna be such an asterisk to your book. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
October first they're going to Amazon, Hulu and one other,
and then on the twentieth is going to be Netflix.
So just keep your fingers crossed that one of them
pick it up and this will be another episode.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Well, I told you for years it's got to be,
and this one is going to be one of those
episodes people are like, no way, you gotta be kidding.
But no bit happened because, honey, when you called me,
I had not watched it. I hadn't seen this documentary.
And when you first called me and you were like,
you're not gonna believe this, I'm sitting there, I'm watching
this true crime documentary about a serial killer and then
(25:42):
my picture pops up. I'm like, wait a minute, what
Like I couldn't even process what you were telling me
because it was just unbelievable. But hey, here's the other
cool thing. With one of the possible primes, you solved it.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
God's they solved that part of the puzzle.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
You did. This is not a cold case, because you know,
when we ever, anytime we ever have a call out,
the first thing we have to do is determine whether
a crime has been committed. So the very first step
an investigation, you did it. No crime here, perfect, y'all.
I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I
(26:22):
always do with a quote, I am not the monster
that killed these women. I dated, I danced, I took pictures,
but I don't kill people. And there's no evidence of that.
Joseph Nazou representing himself at trial in twenty thirteen. I'm
(26:44):
Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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