November 26, 2025 • 29 mins
On Mother’s Day 2020, Susan Morphew vanished from her Colorado home, leaving behind a community full of questions and loved ones searching for answers. In this episode of Zone 7, Sheryl McCollum sits down with retired NYPD Sergeant and cold case expert Joe Giacalone to revisit the investigation, the early red flags, and the clues that continue to raise quesions, from the discovery of Susan’s bicycle to the inconsistencies that complicated the case.
Highlights:
• (0:00) Sheryl opens with the timeline of Susan Morphew’s disappearance and introduces guest Joe Giacalone
• (1:30) The early facts of the case and first warning signs: missing bicycle, disabled surveillance cameras, and a Mother’s Day that went unnoticed
• (2:00) The 911 call from a neighbor and Barry Morphew's arrival at the scene
• (5:45) Inconsistencies in Barry's statements and the odor of chlorine in his hotel room
• (9:30) Digital breadcrumbs: truck data, phone records, and deleted text messages
• (10:30) The tranquilizer dart, the “chipmunk” story, and the forensic evidence found in the Morphew’s dryer
• (16:45) The recovery of Susan's remains and what investigators believe it reveals• (19:00) Barry's behavior raises more questions: his calm demeanor, the sale of Susan's truck, and the discovery of the spy pen that exposed her affair
• (26:00) How public pressure, social media, and speculation can influence a case
• (28:00) Joe closes with a Mark Twain quote that captures what Barry Morphew failed to grasp: “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”
Guest Bio:
Joe Giacalone is a retired NYPD Sergeant and former Commanding Officer of the Bronx Cold Case Squad. He serves as an adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and is the author of The Criminal Investigative Function: A Guide for New Investigators and The Cold Case Handbook. Giacalone also hosts True Crime with the Sarge and is a frequent media commentator on criminal investigations.
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Preorder Sheryl’s upcoming book, Swans Don’t Swim in a Sewer: Lessons in Life, Justice, and Joy from a Forensic Scientist, releasing May 2026 from Simon and Schuster.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Swans-Dont-Swim-in-a-Sewer/Sheryl-Mac-McCollum/9798895652824
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an active crime scene investigator for a Metro Atlanta Police Department and the director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, which partners with colleges and universities nationwide. With more than 4 decades of experience, she has worked on thousands of cold cases using her investigative system, The Last 24/361, which integrates evidence, media, and advanced forensic testing. Her work on high-profile cases, including The Boston Strangler, Natalie Holloway, Tupac Shakur and the Moore’s Ford Bridge lynching, earned her an Emmy Award for CSI: Atlanta and induction into the National Law Enforcement Hall of Fame in 2023.
Social Links:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
May tenth, twenty twenty, Suzanne Morphew was last seen alive.
Her bicycle was missing, later found down a steep ravine.
Her home security cameras had been disabled, her daughters were
out camping, her husband was out of town about I
(00:29):
don't know, five hours away or four hours away, and
she goes missing and it's Mother's Day. So lots of
red flags for me immediately. But y'all, tonight we have
Sergeant Joe jack Alone, retired NYPD. Y'all, he ran homicide
(00:52):
in the Bronx. He ran the homicide school Medal of Valor.
Y'all know him, and he is going to help me
on this thing. Because when I tell you there are
red flags, there are red flags, and there are updates,
and the updates are red flags to me, Sergeant.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
How are you good? How are you Cheryl?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I am great.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I tell you I've been looking forward to talking to
you all day. This is one of those cases that just,
you know, it baffles me how he wasn't arrested sooner.
And I understand they wanted to wait for a body.
I get that part. But talk to me a little
bit about his movements on that day and again y'all.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm gonna keep saying it. It was Mother's Day, It
was Mother's Day. It was Mother's Day.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
There should have been a phone call, some flowers, a
gift or two.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
There was none of that.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So to me, that's one of those things I can't
get off that train.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, I just when I know, you're talking about red flags,
and I always, you know, talk about red flags. This
case has so many red flags. They would say it
looks like China. So, I mean, the biggest red flag
is the fact that she was reported missing by a neighbor,
not a neighbor, right, by a neighbor, not the not
(02:16):
the husband, not the kids, right. So it was the
neighbor that that that that that started this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
And Sarge, it goes a little bit deeper. He told
the neighbor, Hey, go check and see it for bike's there,
and if it's not, you call that one one.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I mean, in her vehicle was in the garage,
you know, there was they had no signs of forced entry.
Her her bicycle was missing, you know. And then it
was later on that day the bike was actually that
night the bike was found, and it's just, you know,
so many twists and turns and yeah, I mean he
really originally was arrested, right, and then they had to
(02:55):
release them without prejudice so that they can go at
him again at a later date. So and then full
in with the you know, the double jeopardy aspect of
this thing worked out to be a trial or what
have you. But yeah, I mean this is like it
took a long time to put this together. But you
know what, I think they have the right guy.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, I do too.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
And there's somebody cam that I want you to weigh
in on. When he drives back and he meets law
enforcement where her bicycle was found. And for those of
y'all that are listening that haven't seen it. Prior to
him arriving, you see law enforcement in the area or
(03:37):
walking around this ravine calling out for her, thinking she
could be somewhere hurt, like with a broken leg, and
she tried to you know, crawl to get help and
couldn't get very far.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
But it's away from the bicycle.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
He pulls up, he gets out of the truck, serge.
He never looks for her, he never calls her name out.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
These strangers are due. But he didn't do it. The
first thing. He offers. The first thing.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
He asked them, did a mountain lion get her?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yes? Did a mountain lion getter? I guess well, you
know what, I never had to worry about mountain lions
in New York City, but you know, yeah, the issue
that comes down to is we are victimized by someone
we know most often, and quite frankly, you know as
well as I do, Cheryl, the police are going to
focus in on the people closest to an individual when
they either go missing or they wind up dead. You know.
(04:29):
So at this point they have a missing person's case
going on that they believe that, you know, she went
on a bike trip and a bike ride and something
happened to her. Maybe she could have got hit by
a car, fell in a ravine or a ditch or
what have you. And that's how they were treating this
from the beginning. But I'm sure they had a side eye,
so to speak, when they were doing this, because his
(04:49):
actions don't add up to somebody who was worried about
his wife missing.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Right, Because again, if you and I were in a room,
I would say, Sarge. The first thing he offered, go
look and see if her bike's missing, Like he's leading
me somewhere. The next thing he says is did a
mountain lion get her? Like he's wanting me to have
that in my head, that, oh, this lady's on a
(05:17):
bike riding a mountain lion got her and drug her
down there's ravine.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, like you said, it was, it was pretty clear
when you look at it. When he's you know, when
he's when somebody's laying out what could have happened to
the individual, you always say like, okay, here we go,
and especially without input, you know where, hey, does your
wife ride her bike? All with that? I mean it
(05:42):
was it was. I mean he comes up with that,
that aspect of it, and then you know, of course
three other red flag is by asking about the bike
and then you know that whole thing.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So when he goes out of town for a work
job on Mother's Day, his co work said his hotel
room smelled like chlorine or chlorox.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, well, you know, nothing like saying something when you're
throwing bleach on a crime scene, right right, Rot's Yeah,
you know, it's one of those things where, of course
you just take a look at that and start looking
into different aspects of this guy's story. I mean, nothing
added up even from the beginning. And you know it's
(06:27):
unfortunate in so many levels that you know, you're dealing
with a guy too, and they're asking about his relationship
with his wife. He's telling everybody how great, he's telling
the cops how great it is. It's the best is that?
And listen, folks, the cops, the investigators are going to ask, oh,
your friends, your family, They're going to ask everything about
that relationship. And if I have to find your hairdresser,
(06:50):
I'll find that hairdresser too, because they seem to tell
hairdressers a lot more than they even tell their friends
and their family, right, I'll find Yeah, I'm gonna find
out everything I can from you, and I'm going to
talk to people that you have no idea that I'm
even going to talk about. So if you're going to
lie to me and tell me that everything was great,
I'm sure I'm going to find something on the flip
side of that.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
And that's the thing I love about you. Listen, not
only y'all. You have to know something. This man is
so capable when it comes to investigating homicides, but as
a human being, he is funny.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
He will have me laughing.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
We were at a dinner party and somebody was trying
to act like, you know, their life was so perfect
and everything was great, and Joe jackalone had me laughing
so hard. I thought, I've got to leave this restaurant
before I embarrass every one of us. But when this
man is questioned by law enforcement, he says that his
marriage was perfect.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Now, Walt McCollum ever, says that he's going to say
it very sarcastically. I mean, your wife is missing their
trying to get to the heart of what has happened.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Who would have heard her? Who? Was it a hit
and run?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Did somebody kidnap her? And you are putting up this
front that everything is perfect, that you're perfect, she's perfect,
and it's not. Nobody's buying it.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Well, here's the thing. I alway, you can your listeners. Now,
if you're asking if you're married, ask your husband, or
if someone you know, a friend's husband, whatever, how's everything
going over there? They'll be like, it's okay, everything's fine.
They're rarely going to use the perlatives to say things,
because listen, if you've been married for more than five minutes,
there's going to be issues in your in your relationship
(08:39):
is every day is something going on. So that's right. Yeah,
I mean you're gonna be like everything's okay, right, but
I mean when you're saying it's the best and all,
he actually used the word, oh, it's my marriage is
the best. Uh yeah, No, listen, everybody's got some issues
one time or another, and it is. Hey, listen, you
could have eaten my ice cream last night. Now I'm astawfatch.
(09:01):
So it's not we're not we're not having the best
relationship at the moment.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
That's right, Scott Peterson. It was glorious.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, like I said, the superlatigy, you know, because people
normally don't talk like that, right, you know, you don't
talk in those kinds of things. And I give you
asked me, so, how's how's your working? She's she's doing good.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
She's good. Well, it's good. Everybody's good.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Everybody's good. Yeah, we're breathing. That means we're good. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Well then you know they've got the video of him
going to five different places dropping trash bags.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, talk about red flags.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, And he tries to give the story, well, you know,
I'm in construction. I sometimes don't have an opportunity to
go to the dome. I just put him in different places.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, and you know, listen once again, Okay, fine, we're
gonna have We're gonna get your car digital forensics too.
We're gonna find out all the different places that you've
gone to and if you got the GPS in there
and all the other things that go along with it,
we'll drop this pen or the warrant on that too.
If you're saying your car, yeah, if you're saying you
use your car to do all this stuff and we
have video of you doing things that are out of
(10:09):
the ordinary, we're going to find that information out too.
And it's just part of the nature of the beast.
And you know what, like the old thing goes, you
give a person enough rope to hang himself, and that's
exactly what he did here.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And you know, when you start looking at it, just
a couple of the things. You know, there's a dark needle,
there's you know, somebody that's.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Had a tranquilizer.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Well, let's put it this way. I give a credit
to the investigators because they found the cover for one
of these needles in the dryer, right, So they actually, yeah,
took about thinking outside the box. Right, So some detective,
some crime scene detective or maybe even with the one
of the homicide guys or girls, decided to say, he
just take a look at the I guess you know,
(11:01):
they probably put two and two together with the bleach
smell at the hotel. Figure maybe the person washed the
clothes and sure enough they find the cap for the
needle in there. So they kind of probably that was
one of their like aha moments. Something was going on.
And the fact that he has he's one of the
he's the only private person to have this drug that
(11:22):
tranquilizes animals in the entire state of Colorado, and that
his wife. Yeah, I mean, I mean, you might be
jumping the gun a little bit here, but the toxic
cology reports when they do find the body, she comes
up with this rare you know, this rare drug in
her system through the bone marrow.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And listen, his excuse is the greatest I've ever heard.
He had a tranquilizer gun, that he was chasing chipmunks
and shooting at them.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Now, Sargs.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
NYPB I have said, in my opinion, is the greatest
police department in the world.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I've said it.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I know for a fact you've got a few folks
that can't stand still and hit a target that ain't
moving like you want them to.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, And the police said that there was no evidence
found of any shooting at any chipmunks. And now they
interviewed the neighbors too. They said they didn't hear anything.
They didn't hear any you know, shots, nothing else. And
I mean, listen, I've heard of a lot of problems,
but I've never heard of chipmunk problems.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
And I'm going to tell you something.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I've got them all around the lake where we live.
You couldn't hit one if you tried. I mean, you
want to talk about zigging and zagging and being so tiny, Well.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
They're like the size of your phone too. It's like
they're they're not that big.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
They're not that big.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
There ain't no way he's hunting titmunks. So his lines
are ridiculous. But y'all, that's what happens when you're not
anticipating that question. He never thought that was coming up.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I find it amusing that you know, men who kill
their wives or girlfriends, like, don't think that you're you're
not the number one focus. I mean, it gets to
a point where it's absolutely ridiculous that people would actually
choose this as a reason to solve their problems. And
I've said this before, Cheryl. You know, when people choose
(13:20):
murder as the answer to their problems, they set in
motion a set of wheels and levers and things that
they have never imagined in their lives that was going
to come after them. And people are going to be
pulling out the stop and some very sharp detectives looking
at some of these things. And like I said, you
get as lucky as hard as you work. And finding
that little cap inside the dryer was one of those instances.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And the black box to his truck. So here he thinks,
I'm just going to put my phone on airplane mode,
but the truck told him, Hey, in twenty three minutes,
that truck had over eighty events open the door, opening,
the trunk, move, and.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
The best part of it, he said, he was taking
a nap throwing all that.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Oh yeah he was sound sleep.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah he was. He was sleeping. And they had Yeah,
they have his car doors opening up in his trunk
and everything else, you know, going throughout these things for
like the next twenty five minutes when he said he
was asleep. And I used to love when people their
alibi was I was sleeping or I was home watching television,
you know.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeap, nobody saw me, Nobody else was there. Yep.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Right, that's all you got.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
That, yep.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
And you know for you and I I know for
me personally, I'll say I've sume you too, because I
know you. As soon as somebody changes their story, I
will not move from that moment. I won't do it
because you've told me a lie. One of these things
is a lie. So he originally said when he left,
she was naked. Then he said, no, she was wearing
(14:52):
a little you know, strap shirt and short outfit. Then
he said, well, I don't know what she was wearing
because she was tucked up under the cover. Well, which
was it, Barry? I mean, this is Mother's Day morning.
She clearly didn't get breakfast in bed from you. There's
no flowers, there's no gift. So Mother's Day she's gonna
(15:12):
wake up alone to nothing. And you didn't call her
all day. You only sent a text message. And then
once you found out from the neighbor she was missing,
you didn't call her. Then you didn't start calling her
over and over and over. You know how you do
when you're worried about somebody. If your wife said I'm
gonna be home at five point thirty, by six o'clock,
(15:34):
you're calling her by six thirty, you're a little panicked.
By seven, I mean, the police have already been called.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
So I'm just.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Saying he didn't call her. Then he texts her and says,
call me.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Most of us, either it's one or the other, you're
talking to each other or all day long, either via text,
even just to check up on people, say hey, how
you doing? Just you know, hey, on the way home,
can you pick something up? Or you know, how's work
going today? I mean, all those different little tidbits and
check ins happened on a daily basis. And when you
(16:07):
don't see that in that kind of communication, when you've
saw it previously too, that's another red flag that you
got to look at and say, like, why is this
huge gap? Yes, it could be a good reason that
you were in a meeting all day and you couldn't
do all this stuff, But even then you could sneak
in the text here or there and go that I mean, listen,
cell phone records, internet records, and video surveillance of the keys,
which I refer to as the three forensic coursemen of
(16:29):
the keys to solving cases, and we see it in
this case, left and right.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Excellent point.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So talk a little bit about the people that may
not know her remains were finally found.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Right. So, they did find her remains buried in a
shallow grave. And then an anthropologist who is you know,
studies the bones, and an entomologist, a forensic entomologist what
does the insect activity? Both agree that the location where
she was found, she was not killed there and it
was probably not her first burial site as well. So
(17:08):
they believe that they that she was killed buried in
another shallow grave, and then whoever was responsible got spooked,
dug her up, and brought her back to that location
where they had where they found her. I think it
was it was several my I think my hour if
I remember correctly, from where she lived.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
And like you said, the toxicology showed she had that
tranquilizer in her system.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I'm not even going to try to pronounce the track
to tranquilize it, but it's they use the acronym BAM
and it's it's very long on It's like Theaxo rival
nucleic acid, but it's only worse. And and it is
a very controlled narcotic. I guess you would refer to
as a narcotics, a very controlled narcotic. And you have
(17:57):
to be everything every time it's sold, it's sold to
an individual or a group that it gets recorded. That's
how powerful this stuff is, and they don't want to
fall into the wrong hands. He was the only private
citizen that had access to it. And yeah, and that's
and it's found in her system, so you know, good
(18:18):
luck trying to figure that out. I think the theory
is that he had chased her around the room or
had he had shot her with the tranquilizer thought and
then try to control her until she finally succumbed to
the tranquilizer. And you know, because there was some disturbance
in the house too, I think there was some things
that were out of place, which is always a good
Another good observation by the Grandston text or the investigators
(18:42):
there that things look at a place, you know, I
would say, you look at things that are either missing
or or in greater number than they should be. So
if you have a room. Yeah, so there's if the
scene is in a bedroom and there's there's four like
sitting kitchen chairs in there, right, so that that would
be a flag and saying that there's something going on here.
Maybe people was sitting watching something when it was happening.
(19:02):
So that's the kind of things that you look for.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Well, you know, I know you love coffee, and that's
something you have in common with my husband Walk And
I've often told people if I tell you Walk left
for work and that coffee pot ain't been touched and
at and work that morning, I killed him the night before.
You can prove it about five minutes when I watched
(19:26):
the video of Barry Moore few at his home when
law enforcement asked him to go inside and get some
clothing so they can have it. He walked straight in
that house. He doesn't look around, he doesn't call for her.
He does it instinctively, like almost in a panic, like
surely she's here, you know, maybe she fail and she's
(19:49):
in a closet. I mean, I don't know, but he
doesn't show anything. He walked straight to where they want something.
They ask him, do you have a bag or anything?
He goes in the and gets some a ziplock bag.
They put the item in the ziplock bag and they
all leave. He doesn't look around. He didn't say, hey, guys,
will you go with me in case she's here nothing.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Maybe she had a medical event.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Maybe she got back after the bike accident and her
head was hit so hard she's passed out somewhere. Well,
he didn't do that. But in that kitchen, on that
counter is one glass one not two. I don't see
a coffee cup. I don't see two coffee cups. I
don't see dishes. Well, he claimed the night before, of course,
(20:35):
their marriage was perfect. So you know, they made steaks,
they had a wonderful time. Of course, you know, they
made love. You know well he of course couldn't remember
what she was wearing. You know, the sex was that great.
But anyway, that's the image he's trying to portray that
everything was perfect, everything was great. But he's not panicked,
(20:57):
he's not looking for her. And then this is what
one of my favorite things he does. He sells her car.
A woman that's just you know, missing right now. So again,
she could have a head injury. She could be walking
around not knowing who she is but let me go
ahead and get rid of her truck because he needed
a new one.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
That's what this is what happened. So he's getting rid
of it because he knows she doesn't need anymore. It's yeah,
it's it's absolutely terrible. And you're talking about a couple
that's been together, like since high school. They knowing each
other since high school, since.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
High school, and y'all, they're a beautiful couple. I mean,
they're both attractive, Their children are attractive. They seem like,
you know, they've got the world by a string. Their
house is gorgeous and it's perfect. I mean it's everything
just looks top drawer, right.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And but we know the relationship is not all right
because she even buys this spy pin. Right. I don't
know if you were going to bring this one up,
But they find this this spy pin, and it's just
what it sounds like. He could record conversations with it.
And the police found this thing and they identified it
pretty much, but they only seemed to find in this
spikepen that she's having a relationship with this guy Jeff. Yeah,
(22:14):
and yeah, it takes him a while to find out
who this Jeff guy is. But they finally do track
him down and talk about red airrings. Right this guy, Yeah,
this guy deleted all his when he found out that
she was missing and all the other stuff. He goes
into panic mode and he doesn't want the cops thinking
that he did it, so he starts deleting text messages
and all the other things. So he then, of course
(22:38):
firmly gets in the crossairs of law enforcement when they
finally track him down and find it out. But I mean,
they wasted a lot of time on him. I'm sure
they weren't happy about that, but you know, they ended
up he was He had a rock solid alibi that
they that they found out that he was not even
in the state I think when it happened, so.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Right, so he lived in another state and they would
go to other states to have these little trysts. Yeah,
she knew him from high school too, so you know,
for a lot of people, high school never ends. So
Barry was supposedly, you know, a big athlete in his
high school. He got the cheerleader, he got the beautiful girl.
(23:16):
To find out that she's having an affair with somebody
from their high school. That is motive people.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, No, I mean she's not only she's having this
affair with this guy, but this guy he makes a
statement like like, why didn't you like help? You know,
why didn't you say something? He's like, well, you know,
I'm married, I don't want to. You know, my wife
doesn't know about it. I didn't want to my children
and all the other stuff. And well, dude, now everyone
knows you now, the entire the entire world knows you now.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Everybody, right.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I mean, if you would have, if you would have
just come forward from the very beginning, maybe they could
have kept it under wraps. You know, maybe they could
have done that. But since they had to find out
who you were and took them like six months to do, so,
the cats out of the bag, so to speak at
that point. So it sucks to beat him.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yes, indeed.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And you know, when you're interviewing somebody's sarge, and you
interview them multiple times and ninety five separate times, they say,
I don't recall, I don't remember, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Is that a problem for you?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah? I Actually, the worst words I think people could
say is I have no recollection of that, like, no
talks like that. I have no you know, you watch
your politicians say this thing, I don't recall, I don't
have rec We train our detectives in New York City
to never say that in court. You just if you
don't know, you say, I don't know. It's just you know,
because even though you're not saying anything wrong, so to speak,
(24:47):
when you say I do not recall or I don't recall,
people will think or speculate that you're trying to hide
something if you don't if you don't know the answer,
I don't know. I don't know that, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
We have no independent I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
It sounds like a lie.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, I mean even though it doesn't you know, it
could be the truth, right, I don't recall, I don't remember,
but yeah, but it's you're better off saying.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I don't know, because again, in a normal conversation, if
you're panicked and your wife is missing, you would say,
I don't know, I've never heard that tranquilized, or I
don't know what you're talking about, like you would move
from that. You wouldn't go I have no independent recollection
of a tranquilizer.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
When you say another thing too, about this, I don't recall,
I used to say to people when they say, well,
I don't recall the moment, so what what makes what?
What do I need to say to you to help
you recall to remember? What's going to make you remember then? Right?
So that's the why people, if you get in front
of the wrong person, then you start talking that kind
of trash, they're gonna call you out on it, and
(25:51):
then you're gonna make you They're gonna make you look silly.
That's why when people say I don't know, it's difficult
to come back at them.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
When they released him the first time, I know a
lot of people were just beside themselves, but they had
to do that to do it right. Well, yeah, and
they waited and then they recovered her, so I mean
they did get more solid evidence.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well exactly, and and you know, not to change subjects.
But there's other case that's going on now with this
young girl that's missing, Melody Buzzard, right. They to me,
I think the cops kind of moved too fast on
her to put her in jail for this other case
about you know, this kidnapping case whatever, just to hold
her and then the case falls apart today and they
have to release her. So The point is social media
(26:39):
and news agency the media in general sometimes can can
force the hand for law enforcement, like saying, let's you
do something and you end up kind of screwing up.
I'm glad I didn't have to work under these kind
of conditions that these investigators have to work under today,
where you know, the social media and the TikTokers and
all everybody else that's going around while you're trying to
investigate the case. Could you imagine how annoying that must be.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, it's it's a different world when you've got anybody
that can now be a reporter, anybody. Anybody can start
a podcast, anybody can start a TikTok, anybody can go
live on Facebook while something's unfolding. And you know, some
of it may be good, like some of these child
abuse situations. You know, you're putting it out there, live
(27:25):
for God and country. Then something's going to get done.
But then on the other hand, you've got some people
whose lives are being ruined when it turns out they
didn't really do anything and some things were missed or misread.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
So let's just say this sometimes in the wrong hands, right, Yeah,
it's a.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
New world right there. For investigators. There's a lot to
be excited about, like you know, IgG and all these
other things here. But the flip side of that is
the social media angle. It becomes a real burden I
think for police departments, and I just hope that we
don't see things where they're reacting in a way that
they normally wouldn't react just to try to get an
answer out to the public.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Well, I'll tell you one funny thing, so we'll end
on something funny. My department, we made a mistake and
gave a prisoner back some property that was illegal for
him to possess.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
It was just a mistake. We handed him the wrong bag.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
He was so thrilled he wrote it in one of
his rap songs.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Hey listen, something's happened, right. Mistakes happened. Things happened, and
you had to own them. But the thing that comes
down to is that you just never want to respond
to unfounded speculation to try to run your investigation. That's
what that's might main concerned going forward.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
That's a great point, Sarge.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
You are one of my go to people when I
have a need for advice, if I need somebody to
look at something, to tell me what I've missed. I
appreciate it more than you know, and I cannot wait
to sit down with you again when this trial gets going.
Sounds like a plan tonight, I'm gonna let Sarge leave.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
The quote Mark Tween said, Eke, your mouth shouldn't be
assumed the fool, then open it and leave no doubt.
Unfortunately Berry never heard of that one.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is own seven
May tenth, twenty twenty, Suzanne Morphew was last seen alive.
Her bicycle was missing, later found down a steep ravine.
Her home security cameras had been disabled, her daughters were
out camping, her husband was out of town about I
(00:29):
don't know, five hours away or four hours away, and
she goes missing and it's Mother's Day. So lots of
red flags for me immediately. But y'all, tonight we have
Sergeant Joe jack Alone, retired NYPD. Y'all, he ran homicide
(00:52):
in the Bronx. He ran the homicide school Medal of Valor.
Y'all know him, and he is going to help me
on this thing. Because when I tell you there are
red flags, there are red flags, and there are updates,
and the updates are red flags to me, Sergeant.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
How are you good? How are you Cheryl?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I am great.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I tell you I've been looking forward to talking to
you all day. This is one of those cases that just,
you know, it baffles me how he wasn't arrested sooner.
And I understand they wanted to wait for a body.
I get that part. But talk to me a little
bit about his movements on that day and again y'all.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm gonna keep saying it. It was Mother's Day, It
was Mother's Day. It was Mother's Day.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
There should have been a phone call, some flowers, a
gift or two.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
There was none of that.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So to me, that's one of those things I can't
get off that train.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, I just when I know, you're talking about red flags,
and I always, you know, talk about red flags. This
case has so many red flags. They would say it
looks like China. So, I mean, the biggest red flag
is the fact that she was reported missing by a neighbor,
not a neighbor, right, by a neighbor, not the not
(02:16):
the husband, not the kids, right. So it was the
neighbor that that that that that started this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
And Sarge, it goes a little bit deeper. He told
the neighbor, Hey, go check and see it for bike's there,
and if it's not, you call that one one.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I mean, in her vehicle was in the garage,
you know, there was they had no signs of forced entry.
Her her bicycle was missing, you know. And then it
was later on that day the bike was actually that
night the bike was found, and it's just, you know,
so many twists and turns and yeah, I mean he
really originally was arrested, right, and then they had to
(02:55):
release them without prejudice so that they can go at
him again at a later date. So and then full
in with the you know, the double jeopardy aspect of
this thing worked out to be a trial or what
have you. But yeah, I mean this is like it
took a long time to put this together. But you
know what, I think they have the right guy.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, I do too.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
And there's somebody cam that I want you to weigh
in on. When he drives back and he meets law
enforcement where her bicycle was found. And for those of
y'all that are listening that haven't seen it. Prior to
him arriving, you see law enforcement in the area or
(03:37):
walking around this ravine calling out for her, thinking she
could be somewhere hurt, like with a broken leg, and
she tried to you know, crawl to get help and
couldn't get very far.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
But it's away from the bicycle.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
He pulls up, he gets out of the truck, serge.
He never looks for her, he never calls her name out.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
These strangers are due. But he didn't do it. The
first thing. He offers. The first thing.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
He asked them, did a mountain lion get her?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yes? Did a mountain lion getter? I guess well, you
know what, I never had to worry about mountain lions
in New York City, but you know, yeah, the issue
that comes down to is we are victimized by someone
we know most often, and quite frankly, you know as
well as I do, Cheryl, the police are going to
focus in on the people closest to an individual when
they either go missing or they wind up dead. You know.
(04:29):
So at this point they have a missing person's case
going on that they believe that, you know, she went
on a bike trip and a bike ride and something
happened to her. Maybe she could have got hit by
a car, fell in a ravine or a ditch or
what have you. And that's how they were treating this
from the beginning. But I'm sure they had a side eye,
so to speak, when they were doing this, because his
(04:49):
actions don't add up to somebody who was worried about
his wife missing.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Right, Because again, if you and I were in a room,
I would say, Sarge. The first thing he offered, go
look and see if her bike's missing, Like he's leading
me somewhere. The next thing he says is did a
mountain lion get her? Like he's wanting me to have
that in my head, that, oh, this lady's on a
(05:17):
bike riding a mountain lion got her and drug her
down there's ravine.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, like you said, it was, it was pretty clear
when you look at it. When he's you know, when
he's when somebody's laying out what could have happened to
the individual, you always say like, okay, here we go,
and especially without input, you know where, hey, does your
wife ride her bike? All with that? I mean it
(05:42):
was it was. I mean he comes up with that,
that aspect of it, and then you know, of course
three other red flag is by asking about the bike
and then you know that whole thing.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So when he goes out of town for a work
job on Mother's Day, his co work said his hotel
room smelled like chlorine or chlorox.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, well, you know, nothing like saying something when you're
throwing bleach on a crime scene, right right, Rot's Yeah,
you know, it's one of those things where, of course
you just take a look at that and start looking
into different aspects of this guy's story. I mean, nothing
added up even from the beginning. And you know it's
(06:27):
unfortunate in so many levels that you know, you're dealing
with a guy too, and they're asking about his relationship
with his wife. He's telling everybody how great, he's telling
the cops how great it is. It's the best is that?
And listen, folks, the cops, the investigators are going to ask, oh,
your friends, your family, They're going to ask everything about
that relationship. And if I have to find your hairdresser,
(06:50):
I'll find that hairdresser too, because they seem to tell
hairdressers a lot more than they even tell their friends
and their family, right, I'll find Yeah, I'm gonna find
out everything I can from you, and I'm going to
talk to people that you have no idea that I'm
even going to talk about. So if you're going to
lie to me and tell me that everything was great,
I'm sure I'm going to find something on the flip
side of that.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
And that's the thing I love about you. Listen, not
only y'all. You have to know something. This man is
so capable when it comes to investigating homicides, but as
a human being, he is funny.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
He will have me laughing.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
We were at a dinner party and somebody was trying
to act like, you know, their life was so perfect
and everything was great, and Joe jackalone had me laughing
so hard. I thought, I've got to leave this restaurant
before I embarrass every one of us. But when this
man is questioned by law enforcement, he says that his
marriage was perfect.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Now, Walt McCollum ever, says that he's going to say
it very sarcastically. I mean, your wife is missing their
trying to get to the heart of what has happened.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Who would have heard her? Who? Was it a hit
and run?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Did somebody kidnap her? And you are putting up this
front that everything is perfect, that you're perfect, she's perfect,
and it's not. Nobody's buying it.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Well, here's the thing. I alway, you can your listeners. Now,
if you're asking if you're married, ask your husband, or
if someone you know, a friend's husband, whatever, how's everything
going over there? They'll be like, it's okay, everything's fine.
They're rarely going to use the perlatives to say things,
because listen, if you've been married for more than five minutes,
there's going to be issues in your in your relationship
(08:39):
is every day is something going on. So that's right. Yeah,
I mean you're gonna be like everything's okay, right, but
I mean when you're saying it's the best and all,
he actually used the word, oh, it's my marriage is
the best. Uh yeah, No, listen, everybody's got some issues
one time or another, and it is. Hey, listen, you
could have eaten my ice cream last night. Now I'm astawfatch.
(09:01):
So it's not we're not we're not having the best
relationship at the moment.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
That's right, Scott Peterson. It was glorious.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, like I said, the superlatigy, you know, because people
normally don't talk like that, right, you know, you don't
talk in those kinds of things. And I give you
asked me, so, how's how's your working? She's she's doing good.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
She's good. Well, it's good. Everybody's good.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Everybody's good. Yeah, we're breathing. That means we're good. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Well then you know they've got the video of him
going to five different places dropping trash bags.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, talk about red flags.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, And he tries to give the story, well, you know,
I'm in construction. I sometimes don't have an opportunity to
go to the dome. I just put him in different places.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, and you know, listen once again, Okay, fine, we're
gonna have We're gonna get your car digital forensics too.
We're gonna find out all the different places that you've
gone to and if you got the GPS in there
and all the other things that go along with it,
we'll drop this pen or the warrant on that too.
If you're saying your car, yeah, if you're saying you
use your car to do all this stuff and we
have video of you doing things that are out of
(10:09):
the ordinary, we're going to find that information out too.
And it's just part of the nature of the beast.
And you know what, like the old thing goes, you
give a person enough rope to hang himself, and that's
exactly what he did here.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And you know, when you start looking at it, just
a couple of the things. You know, there's a dark needle,
there's you know, somebody that's.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Had a tranquilizer.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Well, let's put it this way. I give a credit
to the investigators because they found the cover for one
of these needles in the dryer, right, So they actually, yeah,
took about thinking outside the box. Right, So some detective,
some crime scene detective or maybe even with the one
of the homicide guys or girls, decided to say, he
just take a look at the I guess you know,
(11:01):
they probably put two and two together with the bleach
smell at the hotel. Figure maybe the person washed the
clothes and sure enough they find the cap for the
needle in there. So they kind of probably that was
one of their like aha moments. Something was going on.
And the fact that he has he's one of the
he's the only private person to have this drug that
(11:22):
tranquilizes animals in the entire state of Colorado, and that
his wife. Yeah, I mean, I mean, you might be
jumping the gun a little bit here, but the toxic
cology reports when they do find the body, she comes
up with this rare you know, this rare drug in
her system through the bone marrow.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And listen, his excuse is the greatest I've ever heard.
He had a tranquilizer gun, that he was chasing chipmunks
and shooting at them.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Now, Sargs.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
NYPB I have said, in my opinion, is the greatest
police department in the world.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I've said it.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I know for a fact you've got a few folks
that can't stand still and hit a target that ain't
moving like you want them to.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, And the police said that there was no evidence
found of any shooting at any chipmunks. And now they
interviewed the neighbors too. They said they didn't hear anything.
They didn't hear any you know, shots, nothing else. And
I mean, listen, I've heard of a lot of problems,
but I've never heard of chipmunk problems.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
And I'm going to tell you something.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I've got them all around the lake where we live.
You couldn't hit one if you tried. I mean, you
want to talk about zigging and zagging and being so tiny, Well.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
They're like the size of your phone too. It's like
they're they're not that big.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
They're not that big.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
There ain't no way he's hunting titmunks. So his lines
are ridiculous. But y'all, that's what happens when you're not
anticipating that question. He never thought that was coming up.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I find it amusing that you know, men who kill
their wives or girlfriends, like, don't think that you're you're
not the number one focus. I mean, it gets to
a point where it's absolutely ridiculous that people would actually
choose this as a reason to solve their problems. And
I've said this before, Cheryl. You know, when people choose
(13:20):
murder as the answer to their problems, they set in
motion a set of wheels and levers and things that
they have never imagined in their lives that was going
to come after them. And people are going to be
pulling out the stop and some very sharp detectives looking
at some of these things. And like I said, you
get as lucky as hard as you work. And finding
that little cap inside the dryer was one of those instances.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And the black box to his truck. So here he thinks,
I'm just going to put my phone on airplane mode,
but the truck told him, Hey, in twenty three minutes,
that truck had over eighty events open the door, opening,
the trunk, move, and.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
The best part of it, he said, he was taking
a nap throwing all that.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Oh yeah he was sound sleep.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah he was. He was sleeping. And they had Yeah,
they have his car doors opening up in his trunk
and everything else, you know, going throughout these things for
like the next twenty five minutes when he said he
was asleep. And I used to love when people their
alibi was I was sleeping or I was home watching television,
you know.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeap, nobody saw me, Nobody else was there. Yep.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Right, that's all you got.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
That, yep.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
And you know for you and I I know for
me personally, I'll say I've sume you too, because I
know you. As soon as somebody changes their story, I
will not move from that moment. I won't do it
because you've told me a lie. One of these things
is a lie. So he originally said when he left,
she was naked. Then he said, no, she was wearing
(14:52):
a little you know, strap shirt and short outfit. Then
he said, well, I don't know what she was wearing
because she was tucked up under the cover. Well, which
was it, Barry? I mean, this is Mother's Day morning.
She clearly didn't get breakfast in bed from you. There's
no flowers, there's no gift. So Mother's Day she's gonna
(15:12):
wake up alone to nothing. And you didn't call her
all day. You only sent a text message. And then
once you found out from the neighbor she was missing,
you didn't call her. Then you didn't start calling her
over and over and over. You know how you do
when you're worried about somebody. If your wife said I'm
gonna be home at five point thirty, by six o'clock,
(15:34):
you're calling her by six thirty, you're a little panicked.
By seven, I mean, the police have already been called.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
So I'm just.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Saying he didn't call her. Then he texts her and says,
call me.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Most of us, either it's one or the other, you're
talking to each other or all day long, either via text,
even just to check up on people, say hey, how
you doing? Just you know, hey, on the way home,
can you pick something up? Or you know, how's work
going today? I mean, all those different little tidbits and
check ins happened on a daily basis. And when you
(16:07):
don't see that in that kind of communication, when you've
saw it previously too, that's another red flag that you
got to look at and say, like, why is this
huge gap? Yes, it could be a good reason that
you were in a meeting all day and you couldn't
do all this stuff, But even then you could sneak
in the text here or there and go that I mean, listen,
cell phone records, internet records, and video surveillance of the keys,
which I refer to as the three forensic coursemen of
(16:29):
the keys to solving cases, and we see it in
this case, left and right.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Excellent point.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So talk a little bit about the people that may
not know her remains were finally found.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Right. So, they did find her remains buried in a
shallow grave. And then an anthropologist who is you know,
studies the bones, and an entomologist, a forensic entomologist what
does the insect activity? Both agree that the location where
she was found, she was not killed there and it
was probably not her first burial site as well. So
(17:08):
they believe that they that she was killed buried in
another shallow grave, and then whoever was responsible got spooked,
dug her up, and brought her back to that location
where they had where they found her. I think it
was it was several my I think my hour if
I remember correctly, from where she lived.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
And like you said, the toxicology showed she had that
tranquilizer in her system.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I'm not even going to try to pronounce the track
to tranquilize it, but it's they use the acronym BAM
and it's it's very long on It's like Theaxo rival
nucleic acid, but it's only worse. And and it is
a very controlled narcotic. I guess you would refer to
as a narcotics, a very controlled narcotic. And you have
(17:57):
to be everything every time it's sold, it's sold to
an individual or a group that it gets recorded. That's
how powerful this stuff is, and they don't want to
fall into the wrong hands. He was the only private
citizen that had access to it. And yeah, and that's
and it's found in her system, so you know, good
(18:18):
luck trying to figure that out. I think the theory
is that he had chased her around the room or
had he had shot her with the tranquilizer thought and
then try to control her until she finally succumbed to
the tranquilizer. And you know, because there was some disturbance
in the house too, I think there was some things
that were out of place, which is always a good
Another good observation by the Grandston text or the investigators
(18:42):
there that things look at a place, you know, I
would say, you look at things that are either missing
or or in greater number than they should be. So
if you have a room. Yeah, so there's if the
scene is in a bedroom and there's there's four like
sitting kitchen chairs in there, right, so that that would
be a flag and saying that there's something going on here.
Maybe people was sitting watching something when it was happening.
(19:02):
So that's the kind of things that you look for.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Well, you know, I know you love coffee, and that's
something you have in common with my husband Walk And
I've often told people if I tell you Walk left
for work and that coffee pot ain't been touched and
at and work that morning, I killed him the night before.
You can prove it about five minutes when I watched
(19:26):
the video of Barry Moore few at his home when
law enforcement asked him to go inside and get some
clothing so they can have it. He walked straight in
that house. He doesn't look around, he doesn't call for her.
He does it instinctively, like almost in a panic, like
surely she's here, you know, maybe she fail and she's
(19:49):
in a closet. I mean, I don't know, but he
doesn't show anything. He walked straight to where they want something.
They ask him, do you have a bag or anything?
He goes in the and gets some a ziplock bag.
They put the item in the ziplock bag and they
all leave. He doesn't look around. He didn't say, hey, guys,
will you go with me in case she's here nothing.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Maybe she had a medical event.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Maybe she got back after the bike accident and her
head was hit so hard she's passed out somewhere. Well,
he didn't do that. But in that kitchen, on that
counter is one glass one not two. I don't see
a coffee cup. I don't see two coffee cups. I
don't see dishes. Well, he claimed the night before, of course,
(20:35):
their marriage was perfect. So you know, they made steaks,
they had a wonderful time. Of course, you know, they
made love. You know well he of course couldn't remember
what she was wearing. You know, the sex was that great.
But anyway, that's the image he's trying to portray that
everything was perfect, everything was great. But he's not panicked,
(20:57):
he's not looking for her. And then this is what
one of my favorite things he does. He sells her car.
A woman that's just you know, missing right now. So again,
she could have a head injury. She could be walking
around not knowing who she is but let me go
ahead and get rid of her truck because he needed
a new one.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
That's what this is what happened. So he's getting rid
of it because he knows she doesn't need anymore. It's yeah,
it's it's absolutely terrible. And you're talking about a couple
that's been together, like since high school. They knowing each
other since high school, since.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
High school, and y'all, they're a beautiful couple. I mean,
they're both attractive, Their children are attractive. They seem like,
you know, they've got the world by a string. Their
house is gorgeous and it's perfect. I mean it's everything
just looks top drawer, right.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And but we know the relationship is not all right
because she even buys this spy pin. Right. I don't
know if you were going to bring this one up,
But they find this this spy pin, and it's just
what it sounds like. He could record conversations with it.
And the police found this thing and they identified it
pretty much, but they only seemed to find in this
spikepen that she's having a relationship with this guy Jeff. Yeah,
(22:14):
and yeah, it takes him a while to find out
who this Jeff guy is. But they finally do track
him down and talk about red airrings. Right this guy, Yeah,
this guy deleted all his when he found out that
she was missing and all the other stuff. He goes
into panic mode and he doesn't want the cops thinking
that he did it, so he starts deleting text messages
and all the other things. So he then, of course
(22:38):
firmly gets in the crossairs of law enforcement when they
finally track him down and find it out. But I mean,
they wasted a lot of time on him. I'm sure
they weren't happy about that, but you know, they ended
up he was He had a rock solid alibi that
they that they found out that he was not even
in the state I think when it happened, so.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Right, so he lived in another state and they would
go to other states to have these little trysts. Yeah,
she knew him from high school too, so you know,
for a lot of people, high school never ends. So
Barry was supposedly, you know, a big athlete in his
high school. He got the cheerleader, he got the beautiful girl.
(23:16):
To find out that she's having an affair with somebody
from their high school. That is motive people.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, No, I mean she's not only she's having this
affair with this guy, but this guy he makes a
statement like like, why didn't you like help? You know,
why didn't you say something? He's like, well, you know,
I'm married, I don't want to. You know, my wife
doesn't know about it. I didn't want to my children
and all the other stuff. And well, dude, now everyone
knows you now, the entire the entire world knows you now.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Everybody, right.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I mean, if you would have, if you would have
just come forward from the very beginning, maybe they could
have kept it under wraps. You know, maybe they could
have done that. But since they had to find out
who you were and took them like six months to do, so,
the cats out of the bag, so to speak at
that point. So it sucks to beat him.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yes, indeed.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And you know, when you're interviewing somebody's sarge, and you
interview them multiple times and ninety five separate times, they say,
I don't recall, I don't remember, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Is that a problem for you?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah? I Actually, the worst words I think people could
say is I have no recollection of that, like, no
talks like that. I have no you know, you watch
your politicians say this thing, I don't recall, I don't
have rec We train our detectives in New York City
to never say that in court. You just if you
don't know, you say, I don't know. It's just you know,
because even though you're not saying anything wrong, so to speak,
(24:47):
when you say I do not recall or I don't recall,
people will think or speculate that you're trying to hide
something if you don't if you don't know the answer,
I don't know. I don't know that, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
We have no independent I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
It sounds like a lie.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, I mean even though it doesn't you know, it
could be the truth, right, I don't recall, I don't remember,
but yeah, but it's you're better off saying.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I don't know, because again, in a normal conversation, if
you're panicked and your wife is missing, you would say,
I don't know, I've never heard that tranquilized, or I
don't know what you're talking about, like you would move
from that. You wouldn't go I have no independent recollection
of a tranquilizer.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
When you say another thing too, about this, I don't recall,
I used to say to people when they say, well,
I don't recall the moment, so what what makes what?
What do I need to say to you to help
you recall to remember? What's going to make you remember then? Right?
So that's the why people, if you get in front
of the wrong person, then you start talking that kind
of trash, they're gonna call you out on it, and
(25:51):
then you're gonna make you They're gonna make you look silly.
That's why when people say I don't know, it's difficult
to come back at them.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
When they released him the first time, I know a
lot of people were just beside themselves, but they had
to do that to do it right. Well, yeah, and
they waited and then they recovered her, so I mean
they did get more solid evidence.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well exactly, and and you know, not to change subjects.
But there's other case that's going on now with this
young girl that's missing, Melody Buzzard, right. They to me,
I think the cops kind of moved too fast on
her to put her in jail for this other case
about you know, this kidnapping case whatever, just to hold
her and then the case falls apart today and they
have to release her. So The point is social media
(26:39):
and news agency the media in general sometimes can can
force the hand for law enforcement, like saying, let's you
do something and you end up kind of screwing up.
I'm glad I didn't have to work under these kind
of conditions that these investigators have to work under today,
where you know, the social media and the TikTokers and
all everybody else that's going around while you're trying to
investigate the case. Could you imagine how annoying that must be.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, it's it's a different world when you've got anybody
that can now be a reporter, anybody. Anybody can start
a podcast, anybody can start a TikTok, anybody can go
live on Facebook while something's unfolding. And you know, some
of it may be good, like some of these child
abuse situations. You know, you're putting it out there, live
(27:25):
for God and country. Then something's going to get done.
But then on the other hand, you've got some people
whose lives are being ruined when it turns out they
didn't really do anything and some things were missed or misread.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
So let's just say this sometimes in the wrong hands, right, Yeah,
it's a.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
New world right there. For investigators. There's a lot to
be excited about, like you know, IgG and all these
other things here. But the flip side of that is
the social media angle. It becomes a real burden I
think for police departments, and I just hope that we
don't see things where they're reacting in a way that
they normally wouldn't react just to try to get an
answer out to the public.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Well, I'll tell you one funny thing, so we'll end
on something funny. My department, we made a mistake and
gave a prisoner back some property that was illegal for
him to possess.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
It was just a mistake. We handed him the wrong bag.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
He was so thrilled he wrote it in one of
his rap songs.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Hey listen, something's happened, right. Mistakes happened. Things happened, and
you had to own them. But the thing that comes
down to is that you just never want to respond
to unfounded speculation to try to run your investigation. That's
what that's might main concerned going forward.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
That's a great point, Sarge.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
You are one of my go to people when I
have a need for advice, if I need somebody to
look at something, to tell me what I've missed. I
appreciate it more than you know, and I cannot wait
to sit down with you again when this trial gets going.
Sounds like a plan tonight, I'm gonna let Sarge leave.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
The quote Mark Tween said, Eke, your mouth shouldn't be
assumed the fool, then open it and leave no doubt.
Unfortunately Berry never heard of that one.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is own seven
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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