July 23, 2025 • 23 mins
CSI Sheryl McCollum sits down with retired FBI agent Scott Payne, who went deep undercover inside a violent white supremacist group known as The Base.
From satanic rituals to grooming kids on Roblox, Scott reveals how he earned their trust—and helped bring their network down from the inside.
This is Part 1 of a raw, unfiltered look at radicalization, recruitment, and the real-world tactics used to spread hate.
Scott Payne is a retired FBI agent and career undercover operative. Known for infiltrating some of the most dangerous domestic terror groups in the U.S., he now writes, trains, and advocates for smarter law enforcement strategies—and a second chance for those who truly want out. He’s a believer in justice, redemption, and calling hate by its name.
Follow Scott on Instagram:@scottpaynebigcountry and check out his brand-new book: Code Name: Pale Horse — A raw, real look inside the FBI’s most dangerous undercover ops.
⚠️ Listener Advisory:
This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence, animal cruelty, hate group ideology, and child exploitation. Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Sheryl welcomes Scott Payne, retired FBI agent and undercover operator known as Pale Horse
- (1:00) Inside The Base — a newer kind of white supremacy with global connections
- (1:45) Accelerationism explained: why these extremists want to speed up society’s collapse
- (3:15) The man behind the madness: The Base’s leader and his Russian relocation
- (4:00) A darker turn — 764, satanism, and how extremists groom children through platforms like Roblox and Minecraft
- (6:15) Halloween 2019: a hate camp, a cold snap, and a stolen goat that didn’t stand a chance
- (10:00) Operating undercover — “It’s not always cakes and pies.” Into the woods with a machete and a mission
- (15:00) Blood, acid, and a goat’s head — a ritual unfolds over three days with hallucinogens, photo ops, and propaganda designed to radicalize and recruit
- (17:30) “What was your red pill moment?” — the art of playing dumb, feeding egos, and staying undercover without getting made
- (22:00) From felon to future — why Scott wrote a reference letter for the man he once helped put away
Thanks for listening to another episode! If Zone 7 is part of your weekly routine, show us some love with a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It helps more folks find the show—and helps us keep telling these stories.
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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
- Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Y'all. I heard my guests tonight say I bullied the bullies.
I knew then we were gonna be friends. I like
this guy. His code name is Pale Horse. Scott Payne
is a retired at the Agent, an undercover expert, and
(00:28):
an author. Scott, Welcome to Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you for having me on now.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm gonna tell you that's the shortest intro I've ever done,
and that was on purpose because I ain't trying to
give nothing away before I can get you to talk.
You've had a little bit of a colorful career there.
Tell me about the base. Who were they?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, the base is We're still seeing a lot of it.
Law enforcement still see a lot of it right now.
The base is a it was a group that I
was the primary undercover, but the FBI and several of
our world working partners across the pond, we're working people
that were members of it. And it's kind of a
(01:12):
newer age idea for white supremacy. It ties into accelerationism.
So it's not it's not what you see with like
KKK or it's not your grandpa it's white supremacy. It's
it's like I mean, young it's neo Nazi, so they
still want Hitler's Germany. But they believe that there's not
(01:34):
a political solution that's going to save the white race.
They believe that society is going to either collapse on
its own or for man made events, and they want
to speed it up, hence accelerate it. It kind of
the ideology was somewhere there in the eighties with a
group called The Order, but they didn't call it that,
but just picture like Doomsday Prepper meets militia, not not
(01:58):
legit good militia, but James Day Prepper meets militia, meets
white supremacy, and they are There's a book called Siege
that was written by James Mason. James Mason's a long
time white supremacist, neo Nazi, and they kind of take
that and use it as their ideology. It's more of
guerrilla warfare tactics. So they're not going to be on
(02:20):
the street with picket signs screaming racial slurs. They don't
want to be seen like that. They're going to go
do silent hits. You're going to see maybe a water
system poison, maybe a power grid taken down, a derailed train,
the murders of anti fascist Jewish non whites. Things like that.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
You know, when you're describing just who these folks are
and you're like, it's militia meets this, meets this, meets this.
Every single one of those by themselves is a problem,
ken Ben.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, for sure, to have.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Multiple, you know, ideologies that are swirled together.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So you also see a darker side when I let's see,
we infiltrated them in twenty nineteen. We took it down
in January of twenty twenty, so the base was pretty
much defunct. There was a couple of stragglers and they
picked them up on some other charges later. But the leader,
Ronaldo and Nazarro, is an American citizen born American citizen,
(03:22):
Villan novigrad, former army contracted under DOJ somewhere, got radicalized
and now he resides in Saint Petersburg, Russia. I did
just see an article pop up where he's trying to
rekindle the base, but he's pushing more for people in
Russia to flip be on the base and fight against Ukraine.
(03:44):
But there's a darker side. So when we started going
into those kind of groups where I started hearing about them,
you know, Adam Waffen Base. They were kind of considered
cringe in a lot of the white nationalism crews or
you know plas like if you're on a telegram channel
or something like that. But see again, we took it
(04:05):
down in twenty twenty. So by twenty I mean I
retired in June twenty one, so somewhere between twenty twenty
and twenty twenty one, if you went in like ninety
plus percent of the white nationalist groups, we're all identifying
as accelerationists, and that's not good. And then if you
scratch at the surface, you will probably in each accelerationist
group you will probably find somebody that's of like an
(04:29):
order of nine angles. So that's even a darker part,
which has a satanic side to it. And now you've
got seven sixty four out there. So seven six four
were apparently I don't have my thumb on the pulse.
I'm not in the FBI anymore, but I read word
each field office. Everybody had a case up and on
(04:49):
a seven sixty four member, and I started looking into it.
At first, I thought, oh, it's just human trafficking and pedophilia,
which is horrific in his own way. But then I
started looking and I was talking to some cops and
retired agents and task force officers, and they started describing
to me what seven six four was, and I was like,
(05:10):
wait a minute, that's acceleration as a'm mego exactly. And
I said, is there a satanic side to it? Like
nine to a? And they said so, the seven six
four crews are doing even more horrific stuff, Like it's
still a neo Nazi accelerationist view, but they are big
on pedophilia, they are big on torture, rape. They're radicalizing
(05:33):
kids online or they're grooming them like through roadblocks these
kids games like Minecraft stuff like that, and they're getting
a lot of what they call twins, like young boys,
and they will get them maybe do something sexual on
the camera. And now they're at sex storting them. But
they're actually setting up live watch parties for people to
cut themselves, like slice their through their fat and they
(05:56):
call that a bean because if you cut a navy bean,
open white, and that's the way fat looks. It's just
it's disgusting this stuff that's there.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
What is seven six four stand for?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It was the area code the guy that created it,
and that's I guess it's a zero code out of
Texas somewhere.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
What happened to you Halloween night of twenty nineteen. I
love that you laugh? Now, Yeah, I imagine it would
take me a minute.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, So I was in the base. I can't remember
how many months we've been in. At that point, the
case really went fast. I mean it went from like
we went in and I got in in July, and
I mean now we're identifying through me and other avenues.
It's like we're identifying more and more targets all across
the country. And you know south that we had members
(06:52):
from the base in South Africa, Canada, Australia, Germany, UK,
It's just everywhere, because I mean you got technology, you
got a phone, you get shrinks the world pretty quick.
But we were having what some would refer to as
a hate camp. So we had several members coming into
(07:13):
Georgia where my celle was at C E L L.
I know, I got a country accent. They're like, what
sale you know, I'm like, no, not s A L E.
It's the jack Wagon. But but I I they were
coming in because the celle I was in had a
(07:36):
the kid that was running it. He was the sale leader.
His dad had one hundred acre property in Rome, Georgia,
so we would go there and train. So everybody was
coming into Georgia and again you're going to do training.
That was part of the application process. What can you
bring to the table because they're preparing for their d day,
which they referred to as the Bugaloo, which would be
(07:58):
the collapse of society in the beginning of the Race war.
So they we had to probably like thirteen or fourteen
come in from all over the country. And the first day,
I know, we did some weapons training. We did I
led the hand to hand combat training, and then we
were doing some other stuff. But a real cold, I
(08:19):
mean a bad cold front came in and it was
like the first time of the year, so you really
had no acclamation. It dropped like thirty forty degrees. But
what they did. I go back to my truck to
charge my phone and after being frozen for a long time,
you sit in the car with a heater on, you
start defrosting and kind of I kind of dozed off
(08:42):
and I woke up to one of the members banging
on my window, going pale Horse because that was my
name in the group, the base, my nickname or code name.
And they're going, pale horse pals, you got to get up,
you got to get up. And I'm like, what's going on.
They're like, man, you remember us talking about getting a
goat or a ram, whatever it is. And they're like,
I'm like, yeah, they go we got it. They'd gone
down I mean probably like a mile and a half
(09:02):
down the road if it's not far. There's a guy
that had I think three rams or goats in his backyard.
They stole one of them. They almost got caught stealing it,
so they bring it and now they say, we're going
to do a sacrifice because just like in the white
supremacy realm, there's a whole belief sect called Christian identity
(09:25):
that has nothing to do with Christianity. I mean, they
take the Bible and they twist the crap out of
it to mash their ideology. So a pagan blot. I
have friends who are belief under Pagan and they took
the Pagan belief system and twisted the crap out of
it to mash their ideology. So we were going to
be holding a blot down into our little sacred Point
(09:47):
in the woods, and they, like I said, they already
had the goat a ram. I don't know what. I
can't tell the difference. I've asked people who own them.
I still don't know. It was a big goat with horns.
I don't know if they had only of us A.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
This is something I want people to understand. A lot
of people think, oh, we're going to cover. You're just
pretending to be somebody, and it's you know, a lot
of fun and you're in and you're out. I think
you're fixing to tell me you had to do something
that I don't know most people could do to stay
in your character. But I just want people to understand,
(10:27):
you know, when you're in it, it's twenty four to seven.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, And I always that's a very good point. I
kind of say, it's not always cakes and pies, you know, yes, lord, yeah, yeah.
Like my first two weeks on the Outlaws case, I'm traveling,
I'm bumping up the first class. I'm like, hey, this
is awesome. Three weeks in, I'm like, I don't want
to drink. I know I'm going to be drinking for
the next five days with these guys. You know, so
(10:52):
so I'm down there and before we take off to
go down in the woods, I go to my kind
of listening device and I'm like telling the case team
because i know they're listening, they're monitoring me, and I'm like, hey, man,
I'm pretty sure we're going to go kill this thing.
And I'm like, I'm trying to think in my mind
as an undercover coordinator, as a senior agent, as a
senior undercover, I'm going through everything. I'm like, well, they
(11:14):
stole it, but that's a misdemeanor, you know. And I
just said it to the case team. I'm like, hey,
if you can hear me, I'm pretty sure we're gonna
to go down here and kill this animal. And I
can't think of a reason to blow the case off
the top of my head or to just get I said,
if you guys don't want me to do this, tell me,
send me a sign, say something. And I waited for
(11:35):
what seemed like forever, and nothing came across. So I
leaned in and I went, well, I guess I'm heading
in the woods. And we carried it down, walked it
down into the woods, and we get to the sacred
site or whatever where we've held blots before, which is
a block for those that don't know, it's kind of
(11:57):
a worship ceremony for pagan's pagan belief. The guy that's
running the blot going by the code named Eizen, and
he starts twisting the ideology, saying that we're gonna be
this is going to signify the beginning of the Wild Hunt.
Well en Noorse mythology, the Wild Hunt is essentially Odin
and other warriors going out and just or other gods
going out and destroying their enemies in the middle of
(12:19):
the night. But in the twisted version of the base,
it was going to be the kickoff to us cleansing
the world of anti fascists and non whites and especially Jews.
So we get down there and Oisen is talking and
talking and everybody's like people getting restless. They're like, just
do it, man. And he's got a kind of a
(12:40):
machete and he rears back. He's doing a practice swing
and a practice swing. We're all in a circle around
the goat, and I'm actually at the back of it,
kind of holding his back legs. I'm not sure how
the hell I ended up there, but that's where I
was at, and he rears back with all of his
might and comes down on the back strap of that
(13:00):
on the neck of the goat. And I don't even
know if it broke a hair, because I don't know
if the backstrap was just so thick on the goat
or the blade was dull or both. And somebody's like, oh,
you may have to tell it. May you have to
do it again. Somebody's like, yeah, do it again, and
then another person's like, man, does anybody have a gun? Now?
The rules were as we were not supposed to be
(13:22):
bringing any weapons down there, but the one kid who
was the worst person, it's the last person you would
want to be handling a weapon is the one that
brought the weapon. And even me, me and the other
guy that my cell leader even was like what what
are you doing? You know? But we took the gun
from him and handed it to Eisen. Eisen chambers around,
(13:44):
points towards the goat's head and then turns his head
the other way, and that's when the instructor comes out.
I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, and then and
he's like what and I go, dude, look at what
you're shooting at I mean, we're all in a circle, right,
you can't turn your head the other way. Mean, you're
probably gonna shoot one of us, which you know, in
some people's opinion, might not have been a bad day,
you know, but anyway, he puts one in the head
(14:06):
of the goat, and even on the recording, you can
hear the goat at the ground and it kicks for
a couple of minutes, and I go up and I
tell Oz and I'm like, hey, man, I think it
might still be a lot. God, I'm pretty sure it's dead.
We'll see. Earlier I had told Eisen, I'm like, hey,
is it bad that I feel sorry for the goat?
And he's like, don't let the goat here you say that.
I'm like, okay. He's like, this goat needs to know
(14:27):
it's loved. This is this goat is going to be
sacrificed to Odin. It's going to Valhalla to be with Odin.
And I'm thinking, I'd like to hear what the goat thinks.
That's what I'm thinking in my head. And I'm like,
I don't love the goat agrees with us too much
right now. But yeah, so that's what happens. And I said, hey,
I mean, for the love of the goat, right, we
want it to be happy. Let's just make sure it's
(14:49):
going peacefully to valhalla. So they put another round in it,
and then somebody says, oh, it's definitely dead now, so
you think you're done, but we're not. Then they take
a knife, slice the goat his throat, fill up a
cup with all the ghast blood, and they start passing
it around in the circle. And everybody's still in the circle,
but Isizen has a sheet of acid, so I'm holding
(15:10):
a flashlight so Eisen can see and like, first member
takes a hit of acid, drinks the blood. Next person
takes a hit of acid, drinks the blood, and so
on around the circle. There's probably like three or four
of us that didn't do acid. Of course I didn't,
and I threatened them if they tried to slip me
something too. But when it gets to me and it's
(15:32):
my turn to partake in the blood, I look down
in the and it's already clotting. It's all clumpy, and
I'm like looking at it, going, man, I really don't
want to drink this. And I think it was Pestilence
who gave me an out, and he said, you know,
you can just dip your finger in there. So I
dipped my finger deep into the blood and then sucked
all the blood off my finger. And then then they
(15:53):
proceeded to cut the head of the goat off, disembowel it,
and one of the members tried to cook it. It
was not It was gamey of stuff I've ever tasted
my entire life, and yes, I did taste it. And
then we carried the head of the goat around for
the next two or three days and doing photo ops
(16:14):
and all that stuff. Because another big part of this
newer age is propaganda, recruitment, radicalization online and that goes
on all extremist sides. It can be radical jihah, it
can be far left extremists. It's the same thing, it
kind of. I mean, if you scratch at the surface,
all of it's very very similar. But they always wanted
(16:34):
the next video had to be better than the last
one for recruitment purposes. So we shot a lot of
video and it was. It was pretty It went pretty
viral all over the at least the dark web type
apps and yeah, so yeah, I had to carry around
the goat's head for three or four days and after
drinking his blood and stuff. So that was on a
(16:56):
Thursday night because that's Halloween night. Friday is blown because
you know, three quarters of the group have done acid,
so they're up all night. No training the next day.
But by Saturday we're back on point. And Saturday we
had another thing where we did a bunch of training,
a lot of shooting, and then we filmed us going
(17:17):
back down to the Holy Spot, the Sacred Spot and
having a bonfire, burning American flags, yelling death to America,
burning Holy Bibles, saying if you're Jewish God and all this.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Stuff, how much just terminology did you have to learn beforehand,
or phrases or the way that they were going to
talk or just believes, Because it's more than just going,
oh yeah I can't stand Jews or black people. I
mean it's more than that. You've got to walk the walk.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, You've got to know. I mean, like, you can't
go in there trying to bluff. That's like a super
no no on the undercover, especially if you're doing deep cover,
because they're going to find you out. So they call
it a red Pill moment. They take the scene from
the Matrix where you know, if you have the blue pill,
you can stay oblivious and never know the real thing.
But if you take the red pill, you're going to
(18:14):
get to see how all this works. So when they
ask you, what was your red pill moment, Like in
the Christian faith, that would be like you getting saved
and baptized. So it's not something that just happens. It's
not like, oh man, you know, I mean no, no,
I started here, this happened. I was a part of
the movement. I was a skinhead blah blah blah, and
(18:35):
I've got it all and it's all backstopped and I
know it, and that's my legend. But yeah, you can't
go in there bluffing. Sometimes with groups, I can let
them teach me, you know, like tactics training or car
being and tactical movements. We were out there shooting AR
fifteen style weapons or AK forty sevens. Well, I was
(18:56):
the lead tactical instructor in my FBI division. I was
the lead defensive tactics instruction. So I know the terminology
we use, but I'm not going to use that undercover
because that's going to probably scream cop maybe to them.
I'll let them use it first. They'd be like, hey, man,
so when you're doing this, you're slicing the pie. I'd
be like, what did you call that? And they got
to slice the pine and I go oh oh, okay, okay,
so when I'm slicing the pie, and now I can
(19:17):
talk like them. But they were using the same terminology. Hell,
they were wearing the same plate carriers invest that the
FBI S White teams have.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, see, that's one thing I was going to ask
you about the way you handle a weapon, the way
you train, because there's a story about a spy that
got caught in Europe because the way he carried a
bouquet of flowers. In America, we carry it like holding
it straight up. The flowers are towards the sky. In
(19:46):
Europe they hold it with the flowers facing the ground.
Something just that simple. But they told the folks watching
him he ain't from Europe. So you know, when you
watch people at the range, there's a specific way to me,
you can pick out the instructor in five minutes five seconds.
(20:09):
So did you worry about were you too perfect? Were
you too good?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
No? I purposely messed up. Okay, I purposely messed up,
Like I would, I would just like shoot off. I'd
be like that gumment, Are you sure that didn't hit?
And they're like, no, they didn't hit, And I'm like,
what is going on? You know? Because I didn't want
to again, I mean I can't, No, Number one, I don't.
I don't want to come in that way and then
(20:36):
see that and it maybe burn myself. But also I
don't want to teach these possible targets that were trying
to find out gather evidence are they planning on doing
something illegal or not? Or are they doing something illegal
or not. I'm not going to make them better at
their firearms, you know, or better at fighting. You know.
It's like, no, we got It's a very fine line
(20:58):
you gotta be careful with. And that's I didn't do
it that way. I I kind of played dumb on
a lot of things. I mean, of course i'd shot before,
and I was a country guy and an old biker,
old skinhead. But yeah, I let them and it wasn't
hard because I mean, like pestilence and he was nineteen
when I met him. He led the training and it
was good. It wasn't the best I've ever seen, but
(21:20):
it was good, and I was like, holy crap, this
is pretty wild.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, that's a nickname there.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, I'm like, what the heck? But he would like,
you know, hell, you a boomer? You know, he's got
I wish even my age that I said I was
wasn't technically a boomer. But you know, you go with
the punches and he's like, he's like, how do you
how do you hold a weapon? And I'll go, well,
like this and he goes, oh, it's so boomer. Let
me show you a better way. You know, this is
how this is a quicker way to get rid of
your magazine stuff like that. So when egos are involved,
(21:53):
which most times they are, it's not that hard if
you let them show you, because that's what an ego
wants to do. Right.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And I'll tell you something. You don't just talk a
good game. There's some folks that you have arrested that
have gotten out of prison and you've helped them. Absolutely,
they want to turn that leaf over. You're all about it.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah. I did a character reference letter and luckily the
guy I only got probation, and he was worried about
the things he had done in his past and he's
going to college, and he's like, I want to do
this and this, but I'm going to have a fellow
me on my record. I'm like, well, brother, as long
as you're still doing the right thing, man put me
down as a reference. Who better to speak to your
possible employer about a fellon? Even the guy who helped
(22:40):
you get it?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
You know, you know they're gonna call because it has
got to be this has got to be a forgery. No,
it's awesome. Oh my lord, I could have talked another
fourteen days to you. Seriously, You've got my number. I
would love to meet you anytime you're Atlanta. I've got
some free time, especially if your wife is with you.
I just want to give her a hug because I
(23:02):
think she's a badass too. H m hm
Y'all. I heard my guests tonight say I bullied the bullies.
I knew then we were gonna be friends. I like
this guy. His code name is Pale Horse. Scott Payne
is a retired at the Agent, an undercover expert, and
(00:28):
an author. Scott, Welcome to Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you for having me on now.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm gonna tell you that's the shortest intro I've ever done,
and that was on purpose because I ain't trying to
give nothing away before I can get you to talk.
You've had a little bit of a colorful career there.
Tell me about the base. Who were they?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, the base is We're still seeing a lot of it.
Law enforcement still see a lot of it right now.
The base is a it was a group that I
was the primary undercover, but the FBI and several of
our world working partners across the pond, we're working people
that were members of it. And it's kind of a
(01:12):
newer age idea for white supremacy. It ties into accelerationism.
So it's not it's not what you see with like
KKK or it's not your grandpa it's white supremacy. It's
it's like I mean, young it's neo Nazi, so they
still want Hitler's Germany. But they believe that there's not
(01:34):
a political solution that's going to save the white race.
They believe that society is going to either collapse on
its own or for man made events, and they want
to speed it up, hence accelerate it. It kind of
the ideology was somewhere there in the eighties with a
group called The Order, but they didn't call it that,
but just picture like Doomsday Prepper meets militia, not not
(01:58):
legit good militia, but James Day Prepper meets militia, meets
white supremacy, and they are There's a book called Siege
that was written by James Mason. James Mason's a long
time white supremacist, neo Nazi, and they kind of take
that and use it as their ideology. It's more of
guerrilla warfare tactics. So they're not going to be on
(02:20):
the street with picket signs screaming racial slurs. They don't
want to be seen like that. They're going to go
do silent hits. You're going to see maybe a water
system poison, maybe a power grid taken down, a derailed train,
the murders of anti fascist Jewish non whites. Things like that.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
You know, when you're describing just who these folks are
and you're like, it's militia meets this, meets this, meets this.
Every single one of those by themselves is a problem,
ken Ben.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, for sure, to have.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Multiple, you know, ideologies that are swirled together.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So you also see a darker side when I let's see,
we infiltrated them in twenty nineteen. We took it down
in January of twenty twenty, so the base was pretty
much defunct. There was a couple of stragglers and they
picked them up on some other charges later. But the leader,
Ronaldo and Nazarro, is an American citizen born American citizen,
(03:22):
Villan novigrad, former army contracted under DOJ somewhere, got radicalized
and now he resides in Saint Petersburg, Russia. I did
just see an article pop up where he's trying to
rekindle the base, but he's pushing more for people in
Russia to flip be on the base and fight against Ukraine.
(03:44):
But there's a darker side. So when we started going
into those kind of groups where I started hearing about them,
you know, Adam Waffen Base. They were kind of considered
cringe in a lot of the white nationalism crews or
you know plas like if you're on a telegram channel
or something like that. But see again, we took it
(04:05):
down in twenty twenty. So by twenty I mean I
retired in June twenty one, so somewhere between twenty twenty
and twenty twenty one, if you went in like ninety
plus percent of the white nationalist groups, we're all identifying
as accelerationists, and that's not good. And then if you
scratch at the surface, you will probably in each accelerationist
group you will probably find somebody that's of like an
(04:29):
order of nine angles. So that's even a darker part,
which has a satanic side to it. And now you've
got seven sixty four out there. So seven six four
were apparently I don't have my thumb on the pulse.
I'm not in the FBI anymore, but I read word
each field office. Everybody had a case up and on
(04:49):
a seven sixty four member, and I started looking into it.
At first, I thought, oh, it's just human trafficking and pedophilia,
which is horrific in his own way. But then I
started looking and I was talking to some cops and
retired agents and task force officers, and they started describing
to me what seven six four was, and I was like,
(05:10):
wait a minute, that's acceleration as a'm mego exactly. And
I said, is there a satanic side to it? Like
nine to a? And they said so, the seven six
four crews are doing even more horrific stuff, Like it's
still a neo Nazi accelerationist view, but they are big
on pedophilia, they are big on torture, rape. They're radicalizing
(05:33):
kids online or they're grooming them like through roadblocks these
kids games like Minecraft stuff like that, and they're getting
a lot of what they call twins, like young boys,
and they will get them maybe do something sexual on
the camera. And now they're at sex storting them. But
they're actually setting up live watch parties for people to
cut themselves, like slice their through their fat and they
(05:56):
call that a bean because if you cut a navy bean,
open white, and that's the way fat looks. It's just
it's disgusting this stuff that's there.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
What is seven six four stand for?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It was the area code the guy that created it,
and that's I guess it's a zero code out of
Texas somewhere.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
What happened to you Halloween night of twenty nineteen. I
love that you laugh? Now, Yeah, I imagine it would
take me a minute.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, So I was in the base. I can't remember
how many months we've been in. At that point, the
case really went fast. I mean it went from like
we went in and I got in in July, and
I mean now we're identifying through me and other avenues.
It's like we're identifying more and more targets all across
the country. And you know south that we had members
(06:52):
from the base in South Africa, Canada, Australia, Germany, UK,
It's just everywhere, because I mean you got technology, you
got a phone, you get shrinks the world pretty quick.
But we were having what some would refer to as
a hate camp. So we had several members coming into
(07:13):
Georgia where my celle was at C E L L.
I know, I got a country accent. They're like, what
sale you know, I'm like, no, not s A L E.
It's the jack Wagon. But but I I they were
coming in because the celle I was in had a
(07:36):
the kid that was running it. He was the sale leader.
His dad had one hundred acre property in Rome, Georgia,
so we would go there and train. So everybody was
coming into Georgia and again you're going to do training.
That was part of the application process. What can you
bring to the table because they're preparing for their d day,
which they referred to as the Bugaloo, which would be
(07:58):
the collapse of society in the beginning of the Race war.
So they we had to probably like thirteen or fourteen
come in from all over the country. And the first day,
I know, we did some weapons training. We did I
led the hand to hand combat training, and then we
were doing some other stuff. But a real cold, I
(08:19):
mean a bad cold front came in and it was
like the first time of the year, so you really
had no acclamation. It dropped like thirty forty degrees. But
what they did. I go back to my truck to
charge my phone and after being frozen for a long time,
you sit in the car with a heater on, you
start defrosting and kind of I kind of dozed off
(08:42):
and I woke up to one of the members banging
on my window, going pale Horse because that was my
name in the group, the base, my nickname or code name.
And they're going, pale horse pals, you got to get up,
you got to get up. And I'm like, what's going on.
They're like, man, you remember us talking about getting a
goat or a ram, whatever it is. And they're like,
I'm like, yeah, they go we got it. They'd gone
down I mean probably like a mile and a half
(09:02):
down the road if it's not far. There's a guy
that had I think three rams or goats in his backyard.
They stole one of them. They almost got caught stealing it,
so they bring it and now they say, we're going
to do a sacrifice because just like in the white
supremacy realm, there's a whole belief sect called Christian identity
(09:25):
that has nothing to do with Christianity. I mean, they
take the Bible and they twist the crap out of
it to mash their ideology. So a pagan blot. I
have friends who are belief under Pagan and they took
the Pagan belief system and twisted the crap out of
it to mash their ideology. So we were going to
be holding a blot down into our little sacred Point
(09:47):
in the woods, and they, like I said, they already
had the goat a ram. I don't know what. I
can't tell the difference. I've asked people who own them.
I still don't know. It was a big goat with horns.
I don't know if they had only of us A.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
This is something I want people to understand. A lot
of people think, oh, we're going to cover. You're just
pretending to be somebody, and it's you know, a lot
of fun and you're in and you're out. I think
you're fixing to tell me you had to do something
that I don't know most people could do to stay
in your character. But I just want people to understand,
(10:27):
you know, when you're in it, it's twenty four to seven.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, And I always that's a very good point. I
kind of say, it's not always cakes and pies, you know, yes, lord, yeah, yeah.
Like my first two weeks on the Outlaws case, I'm traveling,
I'm bumping up the first class. I'm like, hey, this
is awesome. Three weeks in, I'm like, I don't want
to drink. I know I'm going to be drinking for
the next five days with these guys. You know, so
(10:52):
so I'm down there and before we take off to
go down in the woods, I go to my kind
of listening device and I'm like telling the case team
because i know they're listening, they're monitoring me, and I'm like, hey, man,
I'm pretty sure we're going to go kill this thing.
And I'm like, I'm trying to think in my mind
as an undercover coordinator, as a senior agent, as a
senior undercover, I'm going through everything. I'm like, well, they
(11:14):
stole it, but that's a misdemeanor, you know. And I
just said it to the case team. I'm like, hey,
if you can hear me, I'm pretty sure we're gonna
to go down here and kill this animal. And I
can't think of a reason to blow the case off
the top of my head or to just get I said,
if you guys don't want me to do this, tell me,
send me a sign, say something. And I waited for
(11:35):
what seemed like forever, and nothing came across. So I
leaned in and I went, well, I guess I'm heading
in the woods. And we carried it down, walked it
down into the woods, and we get to the sacred
site or whatever where we've held blots before, which is
a block for those that don't know, it's kind of
(11:57):
a worship ceremony for pagan's pagan belief. The guy that's
running the blot going by the code named Eizen, and
he starts twisting the ideology, saying that we're gonna be
this is going to signify the beginning of the Wild Hunt.
Well en Noorse mythology, the Wild Hunt is essentially Odin
and other warriors going out and just or other gods
going out and destroying their enemies in the middle of
(12:19):
the night. But in the twisted version of the base,
it was going to be the kickoff to us cleansing
the world of anti fascists and non whites and especially Jews.
So we get down there and Oisen is talking and
talking and everybody's like people getting restless. They're like, just
do it, man. And he's got a kind of a
(12:40):
machete and he rears back. He's doing a practice swing
and a practice swing. We're all in a circle around
the goat, and I'm actually at the back of it,
kind of holding his back legs. I'm not sure how
the hell I ended up there, but that's where I
was at, and he rears back with all of his
might and comes down on the back strap of that
(13:00):
on the neck of the goat. And I don't even
know if it broke a hair, because I don't know
if the backstrap was just so thick on the goat
or the blade was dull or both. And somebody's like, oh,
you may have to tell it. May you have to
do it again. Somebody's like, yeah, do it again, and
then another person's like, man, does anybody have a gun? Now?
The rules were as we were not supposed to be
(13:22):
bringing any weapons down there, but the one kid who
was the worst person, it's the last person you would
want to be handling a weapon is the one that
brought the weapon. And even me, me and the other
guy that my cell leader even was like what what
are you doing? You know? But we took the gun
from him and handed it to Eisen. Eisen chambers around,
(13:44):
points towards the goat's head and then turns his head
the other way, and that's when the instructor comes out.
I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, and then and
he's like what and I go, dude, look at what
you're shooting at I mean, we're all in a circle, right,
you can't turn your head the other way. Mean, you're
probably gonna shoot one of us, which you know, in
some people's opinion, might not have been a bad day,
you know, but anyway, he puts one in the head
(14:06):
of the goat, and even on the recording, you can
hear the goat at the ground and it kicks for
a couple of minutes, and I go up and I
tell Oz and I'm like, hey, man, I think it
might still be a lot. God, I'm pretty sure it's dead.
We'll see. Earlier I had told Eisen, I'm like, hey,
is it bad that I feel sorry for the goat?
And he's like, don't let the goat here you say that.
I'm like, okay. He's like, this goat needs to know
(14:27):
it's loved. This is this goat is going to be
sacrificed to Odin. It's going to Valhalla to be with Odin.
And I'm thinking, I'd like to hear what the goat thinks.
That's what I'm thinking in my head. And I'm like,
I don't love the goat agrees with us too much
right now. But yeah, so that's what happens. And I said, hey,
I mean, for the love of the goat, right, we
want it to be happy. Let's just make sure it's
(14:49):
going peacefully to valhalla. So they put another round in it,
and then somebody says, oh, it's definitely dead now, so
you think you're done, but we're not. Then they take
a knife, slice the goat his throat, fill up a
cup with all the ghast blood, and they start passing
it around in the circle. And everybody's still in the circle,
but Isizen has a sheet of acid, so I'm holding
(15:10):
a flashlight so Eisen can see and like, first member
takes a hit of acid, drinks the blood. Next person
takes a hit of acid, drinks the blood, and so
on around the circle. There's probably like three or four
of us that didn't do acid. Of course I didn't,
and I threatened them if they tried to slip me
something too. But when it gets to me and it's
(15:32):
my turn to partake in the blood, I look down
in the and it's already clotting. It's all clumpy, and
I'm like looking at it, going, man, I really don't
want to drink this. And I think it was Pestilence
who gave me an out, and he said, you know,
you can just dip your finger in there. So I
dipped my finger deep into the blood and then sucked
all the blood off my finger. And then then they
(15:53):
proceeded to cut the head of the goat off, disembowel it,
and one of the members tried to cook it. It
was not It was gamey of stuff I've ever tasted
my entire life, and yes, I did taste it. And
then we carried the head of the goat around for
the next two or three days and doing photo ops
(16:14):
and all that stuff. Because another big part of this
newer age is propaganda, recruitment, radicalization online and that goes
on all extremist sides. It can be radical jihah, it
can be far left extremists. It's the same thing, it
kind of. I mean, if you scratch at the surface,
all of it's very very similar. But they always wanted
(16:34):
the next video had to be better than the last
one for recruitment purposes. So we shot a lot of
video and it was. It was pretty It went pretty
viral all over the at least the dark web type
apps and yeah, so yeah, I had to carry around
the goat's head for three or four days and after
drinking his blood and stuff. So that was on a
(16:56):
Thursday night because that's Halloween night. Friday is blown because
you know, three quarters of the group have done acid,
so they're up all night. No training the next day.
But by Saturday we're back on point. And Saturday we
had another thing where we did a bunch of training,
a lot of shooting, and then we filmed us going
(17:17):
back down to the Holy Spot, the Sacred Spot and
having a bonfire, burning American flags, yelling death to America,
burning Holy Bibles, saying if you're Jewish God and all this.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Stuff, how much just terminology did you have to learn beforehand,
or phrases or the way that they were going to
talk or just believes, Because it's more than just going,
oh yeah I can't stand Jews or black people. I
mean it's more than that. You've got to walk the walk.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, You've got to know. I mean, like, you can't
go in there trying to bluff. That's like a super
no no on the undercover, especially if you're doing deep cover,
because they're going to find you out. So they call
it a red Pill moment. They take the scene from
the Matrix where you know, if you have the blue pill,
you can stay oblivious and never know the real thing.
But if you take the red pill, you're going to
(18:14):
get to see how all this works. So when they
ask you, what was your red pill moment, Like in
the Christian faith, that would be like you getting saved
and baptized. So it's not something that just happens. It's
not like, oh man, you know, I mean no, no,
I started here, this happened. I was a part of
the movement. I was a skinhead blah blah blah, and
(18:35):
I've got it all and it's all backstopped and I
know it, and that's my legend. But yeah, you can't
go in there bluffing. Sometimes with groups, I can let
them teach me, you know, like tactics training or car
being and tactical movements. We were out there shooting AR
fifteen style weapons or AK forty sevens. Well, I was
(18:56):
the lead tactical instructor in my FBI division. I was
the lead defensive tactics instruction. So I know the terminology
we use, but I'm not going to use that undercover
because that's going to probably scream cop maybe to them.
I'll let them use it first. They'd be like, hey, man,
so when you're doing this, you're slicing the pie. I'd
be like, what did you call that? And they got
to slice the pine and I go oh oh, okay, okay,
so when I'm slicing the pie, and now I can
(19:17):
talk like them. But they were using the same terminology. Hell,
they were wearing the same plate carriers invest that the
FBI S White teams have.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, see, that's one thing I was going to ask
you about the way you handle a weapon, the way
you train, because there's a story about a spy that
got caught in Europe because the way he carried a
bouquet of flowers. In America, we carry it like holding
it straight up. The flowers are towards the sky. In
(19:46):
Europe they hold it with the flowers facing the ground.
Something just that simple. But they told the folks watching
him he ain't from Europe. So you know, when you
watch people at the range, there's a specific way to me,
you can pick out the instructor in five minutes five seconds.
(20:09):
So did you worry about were you too perfect? Were
you too good?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
No? I purposely messed up. Okay, I purposely messed up,
Like I would, I would just like shoot off. I'd
be like that gumment, Are you sure that didn't hit?
And they're like, no, they didn't hit, And I'm like,
what is going on? You know? Because I didn't want
to again, I mean I can't, No, Number one, I don't.
I don't want to come in that way and then
(20:36):
see that and it maybe burn myself. But also I
don't want to teach these possible targets that were trying
to find out gather evidence are they planning on doing
something illegal or not? Or are they doing something illegal
or not. I'm not going to make them better at
their firearms, you know, or better at fighting. You know.
It's like, no, we got It's a very fine line
(20:58):
you gotta be careful with. And that's I didn't do
it that way. I I kind of played dumb on
a lot of things. I mean, of course i'd shot before,
and I was a country guy and an old biker,
old skinhead. But yeah, I let them and it wasn't
hard because I mean, like pestilence and he was nineteen
when I met him. He led the training and it
was good. It wasn't the best I've ever seen, but
(21:20):
it was good, and I was like, holy crap, this
is pretty wild.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, that's a nickname there.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, I'm like, what the heck? But he would like,
you know, hell, you a boomer? You know, he's got
I wish even my age that I said I was
wasn't technically a boomer. But you know, you go with
the punches and he's like, he's like, how do you
how do you hold a weapon? And I'll go, well,
like this and he goes, oh, it's so boomer. Let
me show you a better way. You know, this is
how this is a quicker way to get rid of
your magazine stuff like that. So when egos are involved,
(21:53):
which most times they are, it's not that hard if
you let them show you, because that's what an ego
wants to do. Right.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And I'll tell you something. You don't just talk a
good game. There's some folks that you have arrested that
have gotten out of prison and you've helped them. Absolutely,
they want to turn that leaf over. You're all about it.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah. I did a character reference letter and luckily the
guy I only got probation, and he was worried about
the things he had done in his past and he's
going to college, and he's like, I want to do
this and this, but I'm going to have a fellow
me on my record. I'm like, well, brother, as long
as you're still doing the right thing, man put me
down as a reference. Who better to speak to your
possible employer about a fellon? Even the guy who helped
(22:40):
you get it?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
You know, you know they're gonna call because it has
got to be this has got to be a forgery. No,
it's awesome. Oh my lord, I could have talked another
fourteen days to you. Seriously, You've got my number. I
would love to meet you anytime you're Atlanta. I've got
some free time, especially if your wife is with you.
I just want to give her a hug because I
(23:02):
think she's a badass too. H m hm
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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