August 18, 2025 • 19 mins
A skeleton in the woods. A decade-old missing persons case. No clothing, no wallet—just scattered bones, a handgun, and one unusual clue: a custom brass belt buckle engraved with an eagle. It was the one thing friends and family could describe without hesitation, and it was all Dr. Priya Banerjee needed to confirm an identity and bring long-awaited closure.
In this episode, Dr. Priya Banerjee joins Sheryl McCollum to explore how jewelry, tattoos, piercings, and other personal effects can crack a case wide open. From thin gold chains to infrared-revealed tattoos, shotgun-damaged accessories to telling purse contents, Dr. Priya recounts cases proving that meticulous documentation isn’t just procedure—it’s often the key to solving cases.
Highlights
- (0:00) "Dead men do tell tales.” —the investigative value of jewelry, piercings, and tattoos
- (1:45) Purse contents: receipts, bus passes, and the kind of intel you can’t Google
- (4:00) The thin gold chain that confirmed an identity
- (5:30) Belt buckles don’t lie: solving a decade-old missing persons case
- (9:00) A John Doe’s everyday markers: custom belt buckle, company ring, 70s tattoos
- (10:30) Tattoos and piercings that shout “this is who I am”—from faith and hometown pride to game-day loyalties
- (17:30) Medical examiners and law enforcement: the investigative dream team
About the Hosts
Dr. Priya Banerjee is a board-certified forensic pathologist with extensive experience in death investigation, clinical forensics, and courtroom testimony. A graduate of Johns Hopkins, she served for over a decade as Rhode Island’s state medical examiner and now runs a private forensic pathology practice. Her work includes military deaths, NSA cases, and high-profile investigations. Dr. Priya has also been featured as a forensic expert on platforms such as CrimeOnline and Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She is a dedicated educator, animal lover, and proud mom.
Website: anchorforensicpathology.com
Twitter/X: @Autopsy_MD
Sheryl McCollum is an Emmy Award–winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnline, and the Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She works as a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department and is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute (CCIRI), a nationally recognized nonprofit that brings together universities, law enforcement, and experts to help solve unsolved homicides, missing persons cases, and kidnappings.
Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
Twitter/X: @ColdCaseTips
Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
📣 If you liked this episode, don’t keep it to yourself! Follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave us a review. Your feedback helps others discover the science, the stories, and the search for truth that define Pathology with Dr. Priya | A Zone 7 Series
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Doc, welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Oh thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I tell you we covered clothing pretty good, but it
is really important to me to talk about jewelry and
piercings and tattoos and marks and how those things will
literally allow a victim to give you some victimology on
their own.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Absolutely, it tells you so much.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
It tells you so much, and there's so much truth
to dead men do tell tales.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I think about personal effects jewelry, you know, I had
a homicide that looked like someone had thought with This
was the middle of the night in a cemetery, and
my investigator thought it was like a rope style jewelry,
and I said, it's the ligature mark. Obviously was almost
nearly dark, you can't see, and it ended up being
(00:58):
like a get your mark, a strangulation mark. But he
also had chains on his neck, do you understand, so
it's hard to see. You're like, oh, did that just
make a mark or a post mortem? Is it?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You know, misinterpretation.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Then you think about you know, I've seen various necklaces
or jewelry shot through. I've had an injury through a
purse strap like a slug, like a shotgun slug through
a purse strap that left a very weird mark on
this lady's shoulder.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You know, so that and if you didn't know there
was a.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Purse strap with a hole through it, you'd be like,
what kind of wound is this?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You know, an accessories matter whether it's a purse or
a belt buckle or a rack.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And you know, the big thing is, we don't just
say purse right at autopsy. We dumped the whole purse
or empty the whole wall and document every single item
in there. You know, so is it an ID?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Is there? A bus pass? Is there? You know? Money?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Is their family photo? Is there next of kin or
a bank? You know, a doctor's Sometimes we find doctor's
information there, which is so helpful. Right, if we don't
know anything about this person, we could then call the
doctor and be like, hey, did you have a patient with.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
This demographic maybe by this name?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Because we found your information and the wallet and get
medical history on them.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I'll tell you something else. We've had wallets that had
an appointment for a hairdress, sure, exactly right, And then
sometimes they'll keep them because they remember when the appointment is.
But that gives us a place we know the victim was,
so we can go back and say, hey, she was
here Wednesday, did she say anything to you? Because we
found her dead Thursday?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Right, exactly how was she feeling, what was she talking
about doing? I mean, you can get so much history
that way, right, And if I can get even before
I start the on taps here concurrently, like some medical
records faxed over emailed over, that gives me so much
more to work with right from that little piece of information.
So it's not just like the actual clothing. I mean
(03:08):
not you know, but the personal effects. Sometimes I find
bus passes where if you're on the handicapped bus pass
in Rhode Island, I can get a profile right from
you because that's within a computer system.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
You know, There's so much we can gather that way.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, you mentioned a little bit ago, not just about
the way of mark on the neck. Look to the officer,
they thought it was you know, jewelry. You thought it
was ligature. But if I see something that looks like,
oh it looks like ligature marks, you will be able
to tell me no, no, that was a necklace that
(03:47):
was ripped off. Well, now we've got to go back
and find that necklace. Oh absolutely, that could tell me
where the fight started.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
That's right? Or who has it right? Like could it
have been pawned? You know? Was it a robbery gone wrong? Right?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Like the investigation surrounding that is so important, But it
could be as simple as I had an elderly gentleman
who was so decomposed, you know he was We thought
it was him because he had lived in this apartment
for many years, but because he was so decomposed, we
could not identify him.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
He was a clean cut.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Older guy, so he didn't have any fingerprints in the system,
and he wasn'tn idea, you know, visually identifiable because you're
so decomposed.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
But when we talked to.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
His family, they were like, he always wore this thin
gold chain, and in fact, I had a thin gold chain,
you know, and the apartment was locked, no one else
was in. Their mail was addressed to him, and it
was a well being checked that, you know, it was
why he was found. And so it totally added up
under circumstances that yes, this was the elderly gentleman that
lived here.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
You know. It was the extra little.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Check mark if you will, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And this was a not I mean, if it was
just a plain chain on a table.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
No one could tell me it was his right, but
it was around the neck of this decomposed body. And
I think it was his daughter who was like, oh,
my dad or uncle always wore a thin gold chain,
you know.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So it's very telling.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And I'm like, okay, well that adds to the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
It makes sense, you know, I felt even more comfortable.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
So even a non descript you know what would be
a nondescript thing on a countertop, but in the right
place around the body, and with that sort of description
it really helps. Obviously, something more specific like a belt
buckle is that much more.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
But you had a John Doe with a belt buckle.
And this is where victimology comes into play. Like I
don't ever take my wedding ring off. I have friends
that do if they're washing dishes or doing other things,
but I don't. So that's part of the victimology. If
my wedding ring is missing, it was taken, So tell
us about the belt buckle.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So right, So, there was a middle aged guy that
was missing for eight or ten years, let's say around
a decade or so. Police had searched for him. They
never found him. He was married, no kids, The wife
had moved on, obviously very sad.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
They don't know what happened to him. And a deer,
like a guy with a dog.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
It's always a dog, right looking for deer antlers which
are shed normally found a skeletonized remains, completely skeletonized, okay, like.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Not an ounce of flesh left.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
So it had been years, and some of the bones
were scattered because it was a wooded area. And I
was called to this scene, and we were able to
find a handgun, even the casing. We found the casing within,
so I mean a decade later we still found all
this stuff. And then there were like very trace amounts
(06:52):
of clothing like the scene, like the thick seam of jeans,
but like you couldn't tell the brand or the size
or anything. There was no real identifiable clothing left because
there's so much animal activity in that area that it
was scattered and shredded. But then there's this pretty sizable
almost the size of like a small index card, a
little bit smaller, maybe a credit card size.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
This really intrick kick like yellow metal.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
It's brass. I think I had an eagle on it,
like belt buckle. It was beautiful Okay, I've never seen
anything like it, but this case now makes me pay
attention to belt buckles. Funny enough, right, and this is custom.
This is not anything you could buy off a store shelf.
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
It's not like.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
There's you know, twenty belts from Macy's. Every woman's belt
or every man's belt looks the same.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
This was very unique, and.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
So we thought it might be this gentleman and we
asked we were able to identify, you know, get to
narrow it down, and then we're like, hey, does.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
This belt buckle mean anything to you? And they're like, oh,
he always wore that.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
And I said, okay, rather than do DNA and take
a year to identify this man, we rather give closure.
Can you show us a photo? And the family pulled
it right out. This is before digital photos. Okay, this
was a heart like a printed photo, and there was
him standing right there, and clear as day. He was
in like what's his wife or a friend or something.
(08:24):
But I remember him standing there and I can see
the black belt buckle. I'm like, he's wearing it right there.
The said, oh, he wore it every day. Every day
he wore this custom belt buckle all his friends could
describe it, his wife could describe it, and I'm like wow, So,
like you know, it was right in the middle of
the skeleton, that's him, Like that's how we identify him.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And it was so it was so interesting and so
memorable because of that.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
It was so unique that you know, I don't think
another buckle like this exists.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I have a John Doe case right now where the
belt buckle was handmade. He's got a very significant ring
that was used as like an award for a certain company.
And then he's got very specific tattoos, very unique, very
(09:14):
decade specific, very seventies. So you know, we want to
put this out and we believe it's Kansas City, and
you know, we need people to look at it because
I believe wholeheartedly his family would recognize these things immediately
and friends. But I think, like you're talking about with
(09:36):
your young man, this belt buckle was something he wore
every day, This ring he wore every day. Clearly, the
tattoos were part of him every day. So on those
John Doe cases, I mean, you know, I have four sisters.
Each one of them has a specific piece of jewelry
that is unique that they wear every day, and I
(10:00):
could identify those rings. Maybe I will miss a bracelet
or a necklace because they change those often, but there's
certain rings they all four have that I would know
immediately for folks that are unidentified. The Jane and John
Doees jewelry, I think is one of the most significant
things we can put out to the public.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I have a whole different I mean, I'm sort of
sticking to the clothing. Tattoos, scars, I mean, that's a
whole nother level of identification. And oh scars, yep, exactly
really tells you a lot and can be very critical
and identifying. And I think, you know, like I want
to say, I have tattoos. You know, tattoos are more
(10:44):
socially acceptable if you will.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
They're more common.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
You know, God forbid you need to. But I have
some unique tattoos. I have my name in Indian script
on my shoulder. You know, like you could identify me
with that. You know, there's other unique tattoos. So like
that comes up all the time. And then you know,
if anybody has a record or a police entry, you
know that tattoos are often photographed or described in their profile, right,
(11:09):
so we can always use that as a identification.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Oh, that's a database. I often have to, you know,
consult because it's right there and the photographs are perfect.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yep, I've done it before.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
If we're going into tattoos, I've used infrared photography on
my burn victims to try to highlight tattoos. There's a
whole uh, you know, decomposed or burn. When the surface
is discolored, you can still use infrared photography to pop
the tattoo designs out to really highlight them and see them.
(11:46):
And that could be a very distinct way of identifying
someone as well.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
That's right. And you know, when you're talking about tattoos
and marks again, we're back to religion, We're back to travel,
we're back to cultural You can look at fraternities. I mean,
there are things that are going to tell you about
your victim very quickly.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I mean one of my old attendings had an Omega brand,
you know, from Omega Sci Fi like the Male African
American fraternity, So you know he had that a lot
of people have. I've seen area code tattoos, I've seen
cultural markings even like they talk about tribal tattoos. You know,
(12:28):
I would say my name has a sort of Hannah
like design around it, you know, but that I give
a nod to Indian culture.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
So you know, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
You can tell so much about a person that way,
you know, And so of course if there's any like
you know, I don't want to bring up, you know,
horrible times in history, but sometimes we know that people
had their Social Security number or some other identifying number,
you know, tattooed on them as you know, identifiers, so
(12:59):
you just never.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Know what it may mean. If it's a symbol.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
You know, it's sometimes hard to interpret, if you will, right,
because you're not in their mind. But sometimes it can
be very clear. And it's been very very important for me,
I mean, in numerous cases and identifying people or confirming yeah,
and confirming their identity. You know, the family doesn't want
(13:24):
to believe that that's their loved one, and I can say, look,
you know, they have these distinct tattoos. It really is
as much as you know, to be extra sure, you
know what I mean, they can maybe they don't look
like themselves at death, but these are other markings that
are very identifiable by the family.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
And that's two things I want to bring up We
have cases where we may have a Jane Doe, but
she's got a tattoo that shows she belonged to a
pimp and the family may have no idea she was
in that lifestyle. And the other thing are certain piercings.
Piercings can be for multiple reasons. But again it's a
(14:05):
roadmap for us. It tells us victimology.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Oh yes, I mean think about those.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Piercings are very common in Indian culture and women.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Now it's more decorative as well, but like that was
part of you know, almost part of becoming a young
woman onto the way of getting married, you know, having
your nose pierced and whatnot.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
You know, right, well, there's piercings you can't see that.
Mama may not know you have.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Oh yeah, we know those two right, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So they're not always identifiers. But again it gives us
a little insight into this victim.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yes, of course, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And there was like it reminds me, you know where
I had a guy dieing Rhode Island, but originally he
was from Miami area and he had three zero five
on the back of his hand, you know, which is
a Miami area code. And so like we were like,
wait a second, this is unusual. Why do you know,
why does he have in Miami? And that was pertinent
(15:04):
to finding his next of kin and where he had
moved from. So again like very prominent.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Obviously in Baltimore there was often gang affiliation tattoos on
the bodies, but it can tell you about the person's background,
where they came from, what they're associated their lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Sometimes.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
You know, the cool thing in Rhode Island is I
often see sports tattoos, right, Patriots, Boston brew and Celtics,
Like you just know that they're you know, avid sports fans, right.
Sometimes I see the Italian flag to represent their heritage.
So even things like that can be so important to
(15:47):
someone's identity and then help us connect the dots as
well and.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Hate group affiliation. We see the double lightning bolts, swastickers, whatever,
So again it's gonna tell us about the person. My
police department is next to the busiest airport in the world,
and we had a young man that was shot and
killed and he had no idea with him and the
license plate the car was from California, so they were like, oh,
(16:15):
you know, where did he come from Well, I saw
a tattoo on his forearm that was zone three and
I was like, he's from Atlanta period. I can tell
you we may not know who he is, but I
can't tell you where he's from.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I had a very memorable autopsy as a fellow in
training in Baltimore. We served the entire state of Maryland,
and there was a young man that had overdosed in prison.
So it wasn't it was, you know, suspicious because it
was a jail death, if you will, like we treated
very intricately, but he had swastikas all over him. And
(16:49):
I said, wow, this is rather ironic that an African
American technician and myself are doing the autop season.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You know it.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
It made me Paul and think, you know what, for me,
this is an You know, it doesn't change my mindset.
I'm doing as thorough as a job, but it's humbling
when I think, wow, he would have hated me. But
I'm doing everything I can to find out why he
passed away, you know, so you just have to put
that aside. But yes, you know, it was very telling
(17:19):
from which group he was affiliated with and in that
prison system.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Well, doctor Priya, thank you thank you, Thank you. I
feel like you were one of those teammates that every
single detective needs.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Oh well, that's that's like I'm humbled. Yeah, it's truth.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I mean, you're you're like minded, you're you know, you're
on the same page as far as you know, respecting
this body, respecting this life that was lost, and what
can we gain, what information, what intelligence to find the
truth to what happened. So I appreciate you, well, thank
you for that.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, And you know, that was probably one of the
highlights of my career was building relationships with law enforcement
and attorney generals. And you know, I could call them
and ask them a question. They can call me, Hey, Doc,
I want to curbside you, because right we're all working together.
And sometimes I'll say, oh, you're off base, But they
know I don't mean that in a negative way. I'm
(18:22):
just saying, oh, we're not going down the right pathway,
like this is why I think we should consider something else.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It doesn't mean that I'm being critical, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
So to have those working relationships is so important. And
you know, now I've stepped away from that role as
my primary rule, but I do a lot of legal
consulting and I still do autopsies, both for other medical
examiner's offices and you know, privately, and I'm still educating
and consulting, and sometimes the lawyers, I'm like, you're way
(18:54):
off base, Like that's not how this works. You can't
make these assumptions, so you got to reel them back in,
you know, so the you know, that's I think where
our eyes are trained to a much different level than
you know, what people might see on TV or expect,
you know, this kind of like, no, you can't just
(19:15):
measure the skin and say it's this millimeter bullet. That's
not how it works, you know, just for example. And
so that's where are like piecing the puzzle together and
then translating it for people is so important.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Amen. Well, I appreciate you, and I will talk to
you next Monday.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yes, thank you so much. See you next time or
talk to you next time.
Doc, welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Oh thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I tell you we covered clothing pretty good, but it
is really important to me to talk about jewelry and
piercings and tattoos and marks and how those things will
literally allow a victim to give you some victimology on
their own.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Absolutely, it tells you so much.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
It tells you so much, and there's so much truth
to dead men do tell tales.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I think about personal effects jewelry, you know, I had
a homicide that looked like someone had thought with This
was the middle of the night in a cemetery, and
my investigator thought it was like a rope style jewelry,
and I said, it's the ligature mark. Obviously was almost
nearly dark, you can't see, and it ended up being
(00:58):
like a get your mark, a strangulation mark. But he
also had chains on his neck, do you understand, so
it's hard to see. You're like, oh, did that just
make a mark or a post mortem? Is it?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You know, misinterpretation.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Then you think about you know, I've seen various necklaces
or jewelry shot through. I've had an injury through a
purse strap like a slug, like a shotgun slug through
a purse strap that left a very weird mark on
this lady's shoulder.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You know, so that and if you didn't know there
was a.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Purse strap with a hole through it, you'd be like,
what kind of wound is this?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You know, an accessories matter whether it's a purse or
a belt buckle or a rack.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And you know, the big thing is, we don't just
say purse right at autopsy. We dumped the whole purse
or empty the whole wall and document every single item
in there. You know, so is it an ID?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Is there? A bus pass? Is there? You know? Money?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Is their family photo? Is there next of kin or
a bank? You know, a doctor's Sometimes we find doctor's
information there, which is so helpful. Right, if we don't
know anything about this person, we could then call the
doctor and be like, hey, did you have a patient with.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
This demographic maybe by this name?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Because we found your information and the wallet and get
medical history on them.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I'll tell you something else. We've had wallets that had
an appointment for a hairdress, sure, exactly right, And then
sometimes they'll keep them because they remember when the appointment is.
But that gives us a place we know the victim was,
so we can go back and say, hey, she was
here Wednesday, did she say anything to you? Because we
found her dead Thursday?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Right, exactly how was she feeling, what was she talking
about doing? I mean, you can get so much history
that way, right, And if I can get even before
I start the on taps here concurrently, like some medical
records faxed over emailed over, that gives me so much
more to work with right from that little piece of information.
So it's not just like the actual clothing. I mean
(03:08):
not you know, but the personal effects. Sometimes I find
bus passes where if you're on the handicapped bus pass
in Rhode Island, I can get a profile right from
you because that's within a computer system.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
You know, There's so much we can gather that way.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, you mentioned a little bit ago, not just about
the way of mark on the neck. Look to the officer,
they thought it was you know, jewelry. You thought it
was ligature. But if I see something that looks like,
oh it looks like ligature marks, you will be able
to tell me no, no, that was a necklace that
(03:47):
was ripped off. Well, now we've got to go back
and find that necklace. Oh absolutely, that could tell me
where the fight started.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
That's right? Or who has it right? Like could it
have been pawned? You know? Was it a robbery gone wrong? Right?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Like the investigation surrounding that is so important, But it
could be as simple as I had an elderly gentleman
who was so decomposed, you know he was We thought
it was him because he had lived in this apartment
for many years, but because he was so decomposed, we
could not identify him.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
He was a clean cut.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Older guy, so he didn't have any fingerprints in the system,
and he wasn'tn idea, you know, visually identifiable because you're
so decomposed.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
But when we talked to.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
His family, they were like, he always wore this thin
gold chain, and in fact, I had a thin gold chain,
you know, and the apartment was locked, no one else
was in. Their mail was addressed to him, and it
was a well being checked that, you know, it was
why he was found. And so it totally added up
under circumstances that yes, this was the elderly gentleman that
lived here.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
You know. It was the extra little.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Check mark if you will, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And this was a not I mean, if it was
just a plain chain on a table.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
No one could tell me it was his right, but
it was around the neck of this decomposed body. And
I think it was his daughter who was like, oh,
my dad or uncle always wore a thin gold chain,
you know.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So it's very telling.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And I'm like, okay, well that adds to the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
It makes sense, you know, I felt even more comfortable.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
So even a non descript you know what would be
a nondescript thing on a countertop, but in the right
place around the body, and with that sort of description
it really helps. Obviously, something more specific like a belt
buckle is that much more.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
But you had a John Doe with a belt buckle.
And this is where victimology comes into play. Like I
don't ever take my wedding ring off. I have friends
that do if they're washing dishes or doing other things,
but I don't. So that's part of the victimology. If
my wedding ring is missing, it was taken, So tell
us about the belt buckle.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So right, So, there was a middle aged guy that
was missing for eight or ten years, let's say around
a decade or so. Police had searched for him. They
never found him. He was married, no kids, The wife
had moved on, obviously very sad.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
They don't know what happened to him. And a deer,
like a guy with a dog.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
It's always a dog, right looking for deer antlers which
are shed normally found a skeletonized remains, completely skeletonized, okay, like.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Not an ounce of flesh left.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
So it had been years, and some of the bones
were scattered because it was a wooded area. And I
was called to this scene, and we were able to
find a handgun, even the casing. We found the casing within,
so I mean a decade later we still found all
this stuff. And then there were like very trace amounts
(06:52):
of clothing like the scene, like the thick seam of jeans,
but like you couldn't tell the brand or the size
or anything. There was no real identifiable clothing left because
there's so much animal activity in that area that it
was scattered and shredded. But then there's this pretty sizable
almost the size of like a small index card, a
little bit smaller, maybe a credit card size.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
This really intrick kick like yellow metal.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
It's brass. I think I had an eagle on it,
like belt buckle. It was beautiful Okay, I've never seen
anything like it, but this case now makes me pay
attention to belt buckles. Funny enough, right, and this is custom.
This is not anything you could buy off a store shelf.
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
It's not like.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
There's you know, twenty belts from Macy's. Every woman's belt
or every man's belt looks the same.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
This was very unique, and.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
So we thought it might be this gentleman and we
asked we were able to identify, you know, get to
narrow it down, and then we're like, hey, does.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
This belt buckle mean anything to you? And they're like, oh,
he always wore that.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
And I said, okay, rather than do DNA and take
a year to identify this man, we rather give closure.
Can you show us a photo? And the family pulled
it right out. This is before digital photos. Okay, this
was a heart like a printed photo, and there was
him standing right there, and clear as day. He was
in like what's his wife or a friend or something.
(08:24):
But I remember him standing there and I can see
the black belt buckle. I'm like, he's wearing it right there.
The said, oh, he wore it every day. Every day
he wore this custom belt buckle all his friends could
describe it, his wife could describe it, and I'm like wow, So,
like you know, it was right in the middle of
the skeleton, that's him, Like that's how we identify him.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And it was so it was so interesting and so
memorable because of that.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
It was so unique that you know, I don't think
another buckle like this exists.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I have a John Doe case right now where the
belt buckle was handmade. He's got a very significant ring
that was used as like an award for a certain company.
And then he's got very specific tattoos, very unique, very
(09:14):
decade specific, very seventies. So you know, we want to
put this out and we believe it's Kansas City, and
you know, we need people to look at it because
I believe wholeheartedly his family would recognize these things immediately
and friends. But I think, like you're talking about with
(09:36):
your young man, this belt buckle was something he wore
every day, This ring he wore every day. Clearly, the
tattoos were part of him every day. So on those
John Doe cases, I mean, you know, I have four sisters.
Each one of them has a specific piece of jewelry
that is unique that they wear every day, and I
(10:00):
could identify those rings. Maybe I will miss a bracelet
or a necklace because they change those often, but there's
certain rings they all four have that I would know
immediately for folks that are unidentified. The Jane and John
Doees jewelry, I think is one of the most significant
things we can put out to the public.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I have a whole different I mean, I'm sort of
sticking to the clothing. Tattoos, scars, I mean, that's a
whole nother level of identification. And oh scars, yep, exactly
really tells you a lot and can be very critical
and identifying. And I think, you know, like I want
to say, I have tattoos. You know, tattoos are more
(10:44):
socially acceptable if you will.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
They're more common.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
You know, God forbid you need to. But I have
some unique tattoos. I have my name in Indian script
on my shoulder. You know, like you could identify me
with that. You know, there's other unique tattoos. So like
that comes up all the time. And then you know,
if anybody has a record or a police entry, you
know that tattoos are often photographed or described in their profile, right,
(11:09):
so we can always use that as a identification.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Oh, that's a database. I often have to, you know,
consult because it's right there and the photographs are perfect.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yep, I've done it before.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
If we're going into tattoos, I've used infrared photography on
my burn victims to try to highlight tattoos. There's a
whole uh, you know, decomposed or burn. When the surface
is discolored, you can still use infrared photography to pop
the tattoo designs out to really highlight them and see them.
(11:46):
And that could be a very distinct way of identifying
someone as well.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
That's right. And you know, when you're talking about tattoos
and marks again, we're back to religion, We're back to travel,
we're back to cultural You can look at fraternities. I mean,
there are things that are going to tell you about
your victim very quickly.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I mean one of my old attendings had an Omega brand,
you know, from Omega Sci Fi like the Male African
American fraternity, So you know he had that a lot
of people have. I've seen area code tattoos, I've seen
cultural markings even like they talk about tribal tattoos. You know,
(12:28):
I would say my name has a sort of Hannah
like design around it, you know, but that I give
a nod to Indian culture.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
So you know, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
You can tell so much about a person that way,
you know, And so of course if there's any like
you know, I don't want to bring up, you know,
horrible times in history, but sometimes we know that people
had their Social Security number or some other identifying number,
you know, tattooed on them as you know, identifiers, so
(12:59):
you just never.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Know what it may mean. If it's a symbol.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
You know, it's sometimes hard to interpret, if you will, right,
because you're not in their mind. But sometimes it can
be very clear. And it's been very very important for me,
I mean, in numerous cases and identifying people or confirming yeah,
and confirming their identity. You know, the family doesn't want
(13:24):
to believe that that's their loved one, and I can say, look,
you know, they have these distinct tattoos. It really is
as much as you know, to be extra sure, you
know what I mean, they can maybe they don't look
like themselves at death, but these are other markings that
are very identifiable by the family.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
And that's two things I want to bring up We
have cases where we may have a Jane Doe, but
she's got a tattoo that shows she belonged to a
pimp and the family may have no idea she was
in that lifestyle. And the other thing are certain piercings.
Piercings can be for multiple reasons. But again it's a
(14:05):
roadmap for us. It tells us victimology.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Oh yes, I mean think about those.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Piercings are very common in Indian culture and women.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Now it's more decorative as well, but like that was
part of you know, almost part of becoming a young
woman onto the way of getting married, you know, having
your nose pierced and whatnot.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
You know, right, well, there's piercings you can't see that.
Mama may not know you have.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Oh yeah, we know those two right, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So they're not always identifiers. But again it gives us
a little insight into this victim.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yes, of course, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And there was like it reminds me, you know where
I had a guy dieing Rhode Island, but originally he
was from Miami area and he had three zero five
on the back of his hand, you know, which is
a Miami area code. And so like we were like,
wait a second, this is unusual. Why do you know,
why does he have in Miami? And that was pertinent
(15:04):
to finding his next of kin and where he had
moved from. So again like very prominent.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Obviously in Baltimore there was often gang affiliation tattoos on
the bodies, but it can tell you about the person's background,
where they came from, what they're associated their lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Sometimes.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
You know, the cool thing in Rhode Island is I
often see sports tattoos, right, Patriots, Boston brew and Celtics,
Like you just know that they're you know, avid sports fans, right.
Sometimes I see the Italian flag to represent their heritage.
So even things like that can be so important to
(15:47):
someone's identity and then help us connect the dots as
well and.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Hate group affiliation. We see the double lightning bolts, swastickers, whatever,
So again it's gonna tell us about the person. My
police department is next to the busiest airport in the world,
and we had a young man that was shot and
killed and he had no idea with him and the
license plate the car was from California, so they were like, oh,
(16:15):
you know, where did he come from Well, I saw
a tattoo on his forearm that was zone three and
I was like, he's from Atlanta period. I can tell
you we may not know who he is, but I
can't tell you where he's from.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I had a very memorable autopsy as a fellow in
training in Baltimore. We served the entire state of Maryland,
and there was a young man that had overdosed in prison.
So it wasn't it was, you know, suspicious because it
was a jail death, if you will, like we treated
very intricately, but he had swastikas all over him. And
(16:49):
I said, wow, this is rather ironic that an African
American technician and myself are doing the autop season.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You know it.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
It made me Paul and think, you know what, for me,
this is an You know, it doesn't change my mindset.
I'm doing as thorough as a job, but it's humbling
when I think, wow, he would have hated me. But
I'm doing everything I can to find out why he
passed away, you know, so you just have to put
that aside. But yes, you know, it was very telling
(17:19):
from which group he was affiliated with and in that
prison system.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Well, doctor Priya, thank you thank you, Thank you. I
feel like you were one of those teammates that every
single detective needs.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Oh well, that's that's like I'm humbled. Yeah, it's truth.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I mean, you're you're like minded, you're you know, you're
on the same page as far as you know, respecting
this body, respecting this life that was lost, and what
can we gain, what information, what intelligence to find the
truth to what happened. So I appreciate you, well, thank
you for that.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, And you know, that was probably one of the
highlights of my career was building relationships with law enforcement
and attorney generals. And you know, I could call them
and ask them a question. They can call me, Hey, Doc,
I want to curbside you, because right we're all working together.
And sometimes I'll say, oh, you're off base, But they
know I don't mean that in a negative way. I'm
(18:22):
just saying, oh, we're not going down the right pathway,
like this is why I think we should consider something else.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It doesn't mean that I'm being critical, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
So to have those working relationships is so important. And
you know, now I've stepped away from that role as
my primary rule, but I do a lot of legal
consulting and I still do autopsies, both for other medical
examiner's offices and you know, privately, and I'm still educating
and consulting, and sometimes the lawyers, I'm like, you're way
(18:54):
off base, Like that's not how this works. You can't
make these assumptions, so you got to reel them back in,
you know, so the you know, that's I think where
our eyes are trained to a much different level than
you know, what people might see on TV or expect,
you know, this kind of like, no, you can't just
(19:15):
measure the skin and say it's this millimeter bullet. That's
not how it works, you know, just for example. And
so that's where are like piecing the puzzle together and
then translating it for people is so important.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Amen. Well, I appreciate you, and I will talk to
you next Monday.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yes, thank you so much. See you next time or
talk to you next time.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
Popular Podcasts
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.