September 15, 2025 • 30 mins
Content Warning: This episode contains graphic discussion of sexual behavior, bodily insertions, foreign objects, and autoerotic asphyxiation. Listener discretion is advised.
Returning from CrimeCon 2025, Dr. Priya Banerjee and Sheryl McCollum open this episode with reflections on the people who moved them, the cold cases that stopped them in their tracks, and the power of connection in the world of true crime. Then, they pivot to a vastly different kind of casework: foreign objects found inside the human body. From surgical tools accidentally left behind to items inserted for sexual pleasure or criminal intent, Dr. Priya shares unforgettable autopsy findings and the often-overlooked forensic clues they offer. As always, it’s a blend of personal and professional, science and heart, in a conversation only these two could have.
Highlights
- (0:00) Sheryl McCollum and Dr. Priya open the week’s episode with reflections from CrimeCon 2025
- (9:30) The saying that starts it all: “If there’s an opening, you can put something in it”
- (11:15) A grocery store, a steak, and a choking death no one expected
- (15:00) What pathologists can infer from surgical tools left inside the body
- (17:00) Autoerotic asphyxiation, sex toys, and accidental death that look like something else
- (21:00) From lightbulbs to screwdrivers, bottles to vegetables: unexpected insertions and the injuries they cause
- (24:30) Forensic red flags: how Dr. Priya distinguishes between consent and crime
- (27:45) Final reflections on connection, continuing education, and the parents who turn tragedy into change
About the Hosts
Dr. Priya Banerjee is a board-certified forensic pathologist with extensive experience in death investigation, clinical forensics, and courtroom testimony. A graduate of Johns Hopkins, she served for over a decade as Rhode Island’s state medical examiner and now runs a private forensic pathology practice. Her work includes military deaths, NSA cases, and high-profile investigations. Dr. Priya has also been featured as a forensic expert on platforms such as CrimeOnline and Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She is a dedicated educator, animal lover, and proud mom.
Website: anchorforensicpathology.com
Twitter/X: @Autopsy_MD
Sheryl McCollum is an Emmy Award–winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnline, and the Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She works as a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department and is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute (CCIRI), a nationally recognized nonprofit that brings together universities, law enforcement, and experts to help solve unsolved homicides, missing persons cases, and kidnappings.
Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
Twitter/X: @ColdCaseTips
Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Y'all. Welcome to Pathology with doctor Priya. Doctor how are
you great?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It was great seeing you at crime Con. We had
a blast.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I cannot even tell you what a just fantastic time
I had with you and y'all. Let me tell you something.
Doctor Prey's got some fans, honey.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Oh it was interesting. Yeah, I met some. And you know,
I always wonder who does my work reek, you know,
and I think, right here, this is a powerful medium.
People listen, and that really warmed my heart because my
husband's sick of hearing me.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Well, you know, we had a meet and greet, y'all,
and it was the three of us, doctor Priya and
newcomer and myself, and I mean there was a line
out there door and the number of people that I heard.
Thank you for the information, thank you for the knowledge.
(01:09):
You cleared so many things up for people that had
questions in their own life that could never reach you otherwise.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, you know, I think this is why I love
to teach, right and I think sort of bringing myself
into another sphere with you here, it's been really interesting.
And I love that because I think people often contact
me at the worst time in their lives, when they've
lost a loved one, right, that's when you need an autopsy.
(01:39):
And you know, I sort of pride myself. I take
a lot of time to speak to families when they
consult on a private autopsy with me, because it's not
right for everyone, you know, It's it's not like a
magic ball that I can tell everything. I can tell
a lot, but when you're grieving, you want all the
answers and you want them now. And you know, that's
(01:59):
a full role that i'd play for the people that
I do do autopsies for. And actually, just two days ago,
I got a call from Rhode Island and I talked
to two gentlemen who lost their mother. And you know,
I've been there and it sucks. There's no medical term
for it otherwise. And I was able to talk to
them and I said, look, gentlemen, like we know what
(02:20):
was wrong with her and at some point those very
hard diseases took over her body and complications. They were like, wow,
thank you. You know, they were worried that there was
a lack of care whatnot. But you know, sometimes everything
we do in the world, it's it's just not enough,
you know, And I saw that with my mom, and
(02:43):
I was able to share that with them and just
that closure is important. And I think it's important to
know that even an autopsy is a medical procedure, right,
and not everybody needs their body to be investigated by
me for that closure, you know, and talking to people
(03:03):
was so interesting. So I'm actually hoping to bring this,
uh like an intro to autopsy maybe next crime pun
Let's see if it gets picked up or not. But
I really feel like that would be a powerful.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Way to connect with people, and I hope people that
would come would understand more. It's not like TV, Mac,
come on, you know, you're amazing, but it's not CSI
in an hour, right, It's not law and order when
we work the field or we do an autopsy.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
That's just how it is.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
It was wonderful to me to watch people engage, you know,
with you, with Nancy Grace, with you know, all the
experts that were there, and I know ed was like
I had no idea what to expect, but this I had.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
No idea what to expect, Mac. It was it was
a lot. I just can't believe how many true crime
fans there are that would use their heart on money
and time to come right, like no offense. I like
the beach, you know, but these people, this is these
fans and these really smart people. What moved me the
most was the missing or unexplained absences of people the board.
(04:12):
I think that was incredibly tastefully done. It was right
in the busy hallway, and the amount of attention it grabbed,
I mean it was powerful. I visited that board many
a times because I do a cold case sort of squad.
If you will, team with uh doctor Burgess and Sarah
(04:34):
Kayleen and many others once a month at the end
end of every month, on a Tuesday night, we all
volunteer and we are profiling. We are I'm interpreting autopsy
reports or crime scene photos for them. And it just
made me realize how many of those cases haven't been
touched by someone, and haven't you know, the families All
(04:55):
they want is some traction. And that was I mean,
I got to meet amazing p people, amazing fans. But
I think, you know, the explorer sort of the puzzle
doer in the you know, what got me into this
really was drawn to the power of that board and like,
which case you know is going to be the one
(05:16):
that's solved or someone's going to be an Internet sleuth
looking because that board was there.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I understand that. And you know, I'm always captivating about
the people that have spent their life. You included Nancy
Grace and John Walsh and all these folks that have
dedicated their entire adult life to fighting for justice too.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Oh you know what. I hate to say this, but
I grew up with John Walsh, and I had no
idea he founded that center for the National Center for
Missing and Exploited Children. I had no idea, Like I
knew that existed, and it's so powerful. But meeting his
son Callahan and him, I mean, I just thanked them,
(05:58):
and especially Callahan or like continuing that right. Not every
child wants to continue in their father's I don't know, footsteps, shadow,
whatever you want to say, because he's such a prominent figure,
but that work was I mean, I'm a mom. I
think everybody knows that by this point to an eleven
year old, and I'm constantly worrying as she develops and
(06:21):
explores this world, like getting out there. How you know,
maybe my mind is I don't want to be Debbie
Downer on a Monday, But like you know, it's not perfect, right,
and letting your child into this world as a young
girl or boy can be scary. And I think that
work was just I said, I gave them my card,
I said whatever I can do for you, because as
(06:43):
a mom, that just drives me even more.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well, I saw you do that numerous times for a
lot of people, and not just the John Walshes. I
saw you do it for families nobody's ever heard of.
So it was wonderful for me from starting to finish
to around you and everybody else that was there, and.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, I feel the honor was mine. I feel like
to be around you and you know, learn from you.
But also this was my first crime con so I
went in just like ed like every moment was a
learning moment. But you know, I think what I like
to say is I just have a different job than
other people. You know, it doesn't make us more powerful,
(07:25):
more celebrity. That's not like why I went. I think
to meet people, and you never know about what meaningful
connections can be made with an audience member with another speaker,
you know, because Matt Murphy actually remembered something I don't
even remember what show it was, but he was like oh,
I remember that we were on a show together and
I liked your commentary. I agreed with it, and I'm like,
(07:46):
thank god he agreed with it. I don't want to remember.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Hey, I got to tell everybody something. I got to
bust in. Listen, y'all, doctor Pria. If y'all do not
know by now, when you are her friend, she takes
care of you, and she may do it in ways
you're not even realizing it's happening. But let me tell
you what she did. So crime Con is a world win.
(08:12):
You get there, there's immediately a party. You stay up.
It is a marathon. You stay up way too late
that first night, seeing everybody, enjoying everybody. I had a
nine o'clock session the very next day, and we went
that first night, that the full first day evening. Honey,
we sat out at that fire pit till like three am.
(08:36):
Then I had another nine am session. In order to
do your nine am session, you've got to be in
the green room by eight thirty. So I was delirious
that morning. All of a sudden, this young girl comes
up to me, a volunteer, and she said, excuse me,
are you Mac And I said yes, and I thought
she was going to lead me to the stage. She said,
(08:57):
this is from Dr Pria. She was worried you hat
and I had a thing to eat, and she made
me promise that I would bring you breakfast.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I'm back there. They were like, who is this
chick trying to bust in?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
But I want people to know that's who you are.
You could have slept in, you could have enjoyed a
leisure morning, but no, you wanted to be sure that
I wasn't going to just fall out. So I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
It's always a blueberry muffin and a diet coke. I know, Jorida.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It was awesome. And listen, I must have heard eighty times.
When are y'all going to talk about when people put
things in their body? Well, y'all, this is it. Get ready,
doctor Pria? Tell us, tell us honey.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
So many weird things. Oh my god, And these are
speaking from my experience. I'm not even making it up. Right. Well,
I need to give a shout out to Nicole and Jemmy,
who gave the real talk on this, right. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I'm going to tell you that child ooh.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Ooh seen a lot too, So I hope to not
duplicate but add to it. So shout out to her.
She was nothing but gracious. It was awesome to connect
and like minds, like maybe slightly twisted minds, but you know,
the work takes you there. So what have I seen? So,
you know, I think if there's an opening, you can
(10:21):
put something in it, right.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
And yeah, well I'm just saying, just speaking the truth, right, yeah,
and so you know I will leave it to be creative.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Obviously, there's you know, many sexual preferences where things are
you know, can go in and they're you know, sex
toys are very common, but that's meant to be there, right.
Hopefully they're not so big or so forcefully put in
that you can still hurt someone, you know. And I'm
(10:58):
trying not to be too graphic, but you know, putting
things in the rectum, you just need to be gentle.
You don't want to perforate anything. Same thing with the vagina, right,
things stretched, but only up to a point. And but
I have seen so many things sort of inadvertently either
put in or left it. And I'll explain that. So
(11:20):
probably one of my craziest stories I've had was a
guy who was going through a grocery store, and he
was rapidly eating things. Okay, and I don't know if
what I don't recall what his like background was. I
don't think he was homeless, but he might have had
some psychiatric issues, and I think that'll become obvious. So
(11:42):
he was eating strawberries out of a package, and I mean,
who hasn't been hungry when you're grocery shopping, right, I've
done it. I actually swing through the line, say hey,
I need a snack, and then I return, you know,
like so I pay for the piece of fruit or
the box of crackers whatever, you know, so it doesn't
look like I'm stealing. But he doesn't do that. He
(12:03):
just opens a thing of strawberries eight like four or
five and didn't decided he was gonna go through the
meat aisle.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So quite.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I mean, in any grocery strive bin, those are pretty
far apart. So he doesn't really snack on anything else.
He goes to the meat aisle, opens up a package
of steak and takes a humongous bite of raw meat. Okay,
it doesn't chew it, although he has teeth, okay, so
it's not that like, you know, just to say, like choking,
(12:33):
and those kinds of things can happen in people who
are elderly. Maybe they don't have secure dentures, maybe they're
or annual people with teeth, like poor teeth condition. Maybe
they don't have a lot of teeth, you know, so
they're they're really at fault, not just for not having
the teeth, but maybe they have like something that doesn't
(12:54):
allow them to swallow well, right, because swallowing is a
very coordinated thing. We have a flo that protects our airway, right,
That's why we don't choke when we eat. It's called
the epiglottis. It's a little flat that goes boop right
over the windpipe the trachea, and your food goes down
the right way. And we've i mean I've gagged right
like on water something that goes down the wrong way,
(13:15):
but you cough because the gag reflex. You don't want
stuff in that airway, right, if it gets all the
way to the lungs, you're gonna get pneumonia. And that's
called aspiration. And so when you have normal neurology, neurologic
function that is protected, your airways protected. But this guy,
for whatever reason, takes I mean it was like a
(13:38):
two and a half piece chunk of meat that I
recovered from his airway at autopsy. He swallowed it and
it got lodged in his airway. But this isn't a restaurant,
right this Who would think that this guy that drops
in the grocery store has a chunk of meat in
his airway. But when ems came, they could not intubate him,
(14:00):
could not get an airway. They didn't know why he
was not breathing. It was just far enough that they
couldn't see it. And so they're like, I don't know
why this guy died. And so when we got him
and I'm here exploring his stomach had those strawberries and
then a kid, you not, this was the tightest, huge
(14:20):
chunk of raw red meat in his throat, just completely blocking.
I mean, it had to be the volume of like
a golf ball, Like imagine a golf ball chunk of
raw meat in the throat. So you know, he can't
breathe and he falls to the ground and then his
brain doesn't get the oxygen that it needs. So that's
(14:42):
probably one of the weirdest, most unique cases I've had
where it just didn't make sense. And this was a
public area, right, so it's not that he's people don't
see him, but you don't really think this is why
he drops. I mean people saw like the open package
of meat, but it's such unusual behavior. I don't think
it like sort of came to them that that's what's
(15:04):
going on. But anyways, that's one thing. Of course, they're
the horrors of surgery, right, I mean I have seen it.
I've seen surgical clamps, towels, you know, those kinds of
things left in the body, and there's you know, usually
(15:24):
so much safety that's done to avoid this. Right where
you do, like they teach us in med school, when
you're doing surgery rotation, there's a towel count, there's a
clamp count, you know, the instrument count. You're supposed to
make sure, double check. There's a circulator nurse right ana
surgical tech that all make sure. So if they give
(15:46):
you fifty towels during surgery because someone's bleeding, you have
to make sure fifty are back. You know, you're not
supposed to leave them. And there's others. So we don't
use towels to pack. There's other packing material like you
can use to stop the bleeding or they have to
document that. You know, this is what's being used. And unfortunately,
(16:07):
I've seen traumas that don't end well. Usually that's why
they come to me. Where the towels. You know, it's
so emergency they're trying to stop bleeding, and when the
person passes away from their injuries, like the bleeding, okay,
the towels are left in. Does that make sense? And
it's actually really helpful to me at autopsy. If there's
twenty blood soak towels, well, I know how much this
(16:28):
person bled. You know, it sort of gives me an
idea because these are absorptive towels. These are like not
just thin, little dinky napkins or paper towels. These are
the blue surgical towels that are meant to really absorb things.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
You know, but I can see that in an emergency,
like if it's emergency surgery, you got eight people flying
around this person doing different jobs. I mean I get
that part. I feel like you kind of glossed over
the sex toys. I want to go back and ask
this question with the surgical aspect again. That is right
(17:09):
this very second. We weren't thinking about this person before
and now we're in the middle of trying to save
their life with the sex toy. You're thinking about it,
you're playing it, you're in the middle of doing something.
What is the death.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I don't think there's a lot of death. So usually
what I've seen is like autoerotic asphyxia. So people who
have unique sex practices where they like to be choked
or they have like it's an like a like a
(17:44):
sex act gone wrong. Let's say it's not a hanging suicide,
but they'll use ligatures around their neck as sort of
like there should be a safe word, there should be
a way to like undo it, you know. But what
happens is that are often where I see a lot
of sexual acts, right, I mean that in and of
(18:04):
itself goes wrong. But there are dildos, there are penis clamps,
there are leather straps and whips and all that. I mean.
So that actually is very important because it sets the
scene that this wasn't a suicide, right, I mean absolutely,
So you know it's not to be I'm not shaming anybody.
(18:26):
This is just pure observation, and it's actually I asked
these questions a lot because I want to know, you know,
we want the prime scene, right, we want to know
what's going on, and that sets the stage for the
way I'm thinking about it. And why is that important?
The manner of death? Right, So if you see this,
you don't want it to be a suicide. You know
(18:46):
that it's an accidental death with all the stuff that's around.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
But that's why I think it's important. That's why I
was asking you what normally causes the death, because we
had a scene that just when you walked in and
visually looked at the room, it looked like a suicide
until you really started to break down. Hey wait, there's
another neck tie over there where they practiced that not right.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Bondage is also common and not common, but I've seen it,
and what I want to say is that you don't
want to misinterpret bondage like a sexual bondage for like
a criminal hog tie or restraint, you know what I mean.
It's not a robbery run wrong. This is sort of
(19:34):
by choice. Now, I've seen it where that bondage doesn't
release again and then they can't undo the compression on
the neck. You know, that's what leads to death, you know.
But there's always sex toys, there's you know, so much
going on that it can also be alarming. Like I've
been called to a lot of these scenes because sometimes
the police are like whoa, and you know then it
(19:57):
becomes this, you know, the it's always a gray area, right,
nothing is black and white, nothing to see USI in
an hour, come on right as good as we are, Mac,
We're we're not TV. And what I say is, you
always got to make sure that you know something with consent,
you know, for personal pleasure doesn't turn criminal. Does that
(20:20):
make sense, Like it's not it's not staged, or it
doesn't turn twisted. You know, something with consent from two
or more people doesn't turn into something criminal where someone
is tied up and then something horrific happens to them.
You always, I mean, call me a cynic, right, but
I've seen enough that I walk around, and that's why,
(20:40):
like going to a scene or scene photos are so important.
You need to make sure like, oh, this is what happened.
And obviously I've never seen any other person stick around.
Once the partner dies in a sexual act, everybody's out
of there. So it's not like people are talking to
the police exsing one.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
That's right, they're so afraid of being in trouble, you know.
And we've seen things where people did not go to this,
you know, sex store and buy something. We've seen screwdrivers
and light bulbs and campsters and all sorts of things.
So it's really important for those new detectives, those rookie officers.
If it is a practice that you don't subscribe to,
(21:23):
you still need to know what it is. You need
to know it when you see it exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Oh, I've seen so many crazy things. I've seen bottles, cucumbers, carrots,
like any object that you think can be inserted. That's
a lay. I mean in some ways, the people with
sexual preferences for bondage, they're more sophisticated, right, They've gone
to a sex store and purchased or internet and purchase
(21:49):
stuff that's meant to be used, you know. And so
oh yeah, and I hate to say it. In residency,
we had taken no, we took note, the residents took note.
So we had to do something called a gross examination.
Not gross in the ew, but gross means like you
just look at the object and describe it and document
(22:11):
it for medical purposes. So you can only imagine many
things have been removed from bodies, right, Doc, I fell
on it. We're like okay, and the surgeon takes it
out or the gaserenrologist takes it out, and then it
gets sent to pathology for what's called this gross description.
So you have to measure and weigh and describe. But
hopefully those people were patients who are alive, you know,
(22:35):
so although it's maybe embarrassing at least there's not a
tragic ending.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
To it, right right, Well, like you said, if there's
an opening, you can feel it, and people have different
ways that they enjoy different things. So that's something that
you were going to be exposed to more than most
of us.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Oh yeah, definitely. You know, I hope not all of
them end tragically. That's a small percentage, but you know
that's that's really it, and you know that's not to
be so doom and gloom. But also when we think
about homicide sexual homicides, you know, you have to think
about every opening, needing swabbing for DNA swabbing, you know,
(23:18):
always check for a gag in a mouth for you know,
anything can be in there. I've even seen toilet paper
shoved all the way into the windpipe. The trachea as
a suicide means, you know, so when the person didn't
have access to much, they still were able to do
it very and that's very deliberately, you know, So in
(23:41):
all seriousness you would be surprised, like even things without
a cylindrical shape, right, can still be put in and
and and it's not obvious and so and then the
other thing is when larger objects are put in for
even sexual pleasure or for God forbid, for like rape,
(24:02):
it can be very injurious, you know. And not again
not to be doing gloom, but I know in India
there have been quite a few women who are tragically
injured because of forceful rape with arisodomy, with objects that
perforated them and so in their colon and stuff and
their vagina. And so that's really the most horrific thing
(24:27):
that you have to think about that you know, it
cannot just be for pleasure, but it can be criminal.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I think that's why your expertise is again so critical,
because when you're trying to determine accident versus criminal versus
something they willingly did. That also gives answers to families
and just to remind people, that's why we have to
interview past lovers. Is this something into so in patterns? Patterns?
(25:00):
What is in that bedside table drawer? What's in that
box on the top of your closet, because I'm going
to look, because I've got to know. She doesn't have
a dildo in this house. She doesn't have any movies
in this house. There's no movies on her computer, there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Her goes up, right.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
That's right, So why would she go from zero to
the most sophisticated sex wing that they can buy. It
doesn't make any sense. So you have to make it
where I can with confidence say this was an accident,
or this was deliberate, or she got herself in a
(25:38):
situation she didn't know how to get out of because
she didn't know what she's doing.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Well, and you know, we're here to educate the public,
and I really want to talk to the detectives out
there onlike TV. I do not carry a gun. I
had a badge when I was at the office that
allowed me to enter crime scenes, but I do not,
and my staff did not have the ability to do
the police work in terms of interviewing people, and so
(26:05):
being aware that this can be pleasurable, you know, someone's choice,
or it can be criminal. I mean, it's not always
comfortable to talk about these things, but that's the information
I need. I need those answers. And this is why
we work so closely. I want to educate. I teach
a lot, and I love teaching because even like regular
(26:28):
pathologists don't know about this, you know what I do,
They're not going to look at the world the way
we do right mac for better or for worse. And
I need them to get into my brain, like, hey, doc,
what answers do you need to certify this death? You know?
And I do go into things always with the cynical eye.
Even if it appears let's say accidental like autoerotic asphyxia,
(26:52):
I still need to make sure there's no unexplained injuries.
There's no you know, nothing's left in, nothing's inject did
that would worry me otherwise?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
And you know, speaking of crime con I want to
end this way. Did you see the muscle building guy
wearing the shirt that said I don't have a safe
word at the bar?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I know, And that's it, that's it, exactly the exactly
I thought.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yep. And here's what was funny to me looking at him,
there's a group that is pretty volatile in the prison system.
And I thought to myself, I bet you do. I
bet you do. Yeah, right, given the right circumstance. I mean,
you're trying to be funny, but given the right circumstance,
you're going to tell somebody to quit it. You know.
(27:42):
But listen, I had such a ball with you. I
cannot tell you all the dinners, all the walks, all
the looking at the bunny rabbits, all the sessions, the
meet and greets, the being at our table.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
It was my honor. And I can't wait. I'm already
planning for Vegas. I don't get paid for this, but
if Prime con wants to am your house me, I'm
open for it. Right, but I would love to. I
would love to do a talk to reach more people.
And it is a very powerful you know, I really
had no idea and I'm still sort of processing it.
How powerful that group is, how knowledgeable, Like they're not
(28:17):
grossed out. They're there for it to learn and hear,
you know, people like Matt Murphy, I mean, and Chris Hansen.
I didn't sleep well, you didn't see you stood, you know,
stayed up late the first night I couldn't sleep after
the roadblocks talk being a parent, you know, and so
you know what you learn. It's even continuing medical education,
(28:40):
and I don't know, is there continuing parent education for life?
I mean, that's what it was for me.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
It was parents.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Oh my god. I cried. I cried so much that
week and I couldn't believe it. Every time someone was
talking about their child. I cried through that session. I
couldn't and I was in the front row. I'm supposed
to be strong and handle death. Look, everybody, when it's
your child, it's unex you know, unexplainable. There's no getting
over it right there, there's no getting over it. And
(29:08):
their power and what they're doing now is incredible. You know,
I covered it, right, I covered Gaby's death court TV,
other channels. I know you know the condition of her
body and I think you and I unfortunately can visualize that,
right And it was so powerful to hear her parents.
(29:30):
I mean, I'm not sure I would be as I
don't know, positive or standing up like they were. You
know what about their no they're oh my god, Yeah,
I cried there too, that Ethan smiles. I followed them
on Instagrams right after that. So just those the power
of the work that the parents, the survivors are doing
(29:53):
are just incredible.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Amen. Well, I appreciate you, sugar, and I had a ball.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
You can hear row Vegas. You can count on it.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Ah some I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
M mm hmm
Y'all. Welcome to Pathology with doctor Priya. Doctor how are
you great?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It was great seeing you at crime Con. We had
a blast.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I cannot even tell you what a just fantastic time
I had with you and y'all. Let me tell you something.
Doctor Prey's got some fans, honey.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Oh it was interesting. Yeah, I met some. And you know,
I always wonder who does my work reek, you know,
and I think, right here, this is a powerful medium.
People listen, and that really warmed my heart because my
husband's sick of hearing me.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Well, you know, we had a meet and greet, y'all,
and it was the three of us, doctor Priya and
newcomer and myself, and I mean there was a line
out there door and the number of people that I heard.
Thank you for the information, thank you for the knowledge.
(01:09):
You cleared so many things up for people that had
questions in their own life that could never reach you otherwise.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, you know, I think this is why I love
to teach, right and I think sort of bringing myself
into another sphere with you here, it's been really interesting.
And I love that because I think people often contact
me at the worst time in their lives, when they've
lost a loved one, right, that's when you need an autopsy.
(01:39):
And you know, I sort of pride myself. I take
a lot of time to speak to families when they
consult on a private autopsy with me, because it's not
right for everyone, you know, It's it's not like a
magic ball that I can tell everything. I can tell
a lot, but when you're grieving, you want all the
answers and you want them now. And you know, that's
(01:59):
a full role that i'd play for the people that
I do do autopsies for. And actually, just two days ago,
I got a call from Rhode Island and I talked
to two gentlemen who lost their mother. And you know,
I've been there and it sucks. There's no medical term
for it otherwise. And I was able to talk to
them and I said, look, gentlemen, like we know what
(02:20):
was wrong with her and at some point those very
hard diseases took over her body and complications. They were like, wow,
thank you. You know, they were worried that there was
a lack of care whatnot. But you know, sometimes everything
we do in the world, it's it's just not enough,
you know, And I saw that with my mom, and
(02:43):
I was able to share that with them and just
that closure is important. And I think it's important to
know that even an autopsy is a medical procedure, right,
and not everybody needs their body to be investigated by
me for that closure, you know, and talking to people
(03:03):
was so interesting. So I'm actually hoping to bring this,
uh like an intro to autopsy maybe next crime pun
Let's see if it gets picked up or not. But
I really feel like that would be a powerful.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Way to connect with people, and I hope people that
would come would understand more. It's not like TV, Mac,
come on, you know, you're amazing, but it's not CSI
in an hour, right, It's not law and order when
we work the field or we do an autopsy.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
That's just how it is.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
It was wonderful to me to watch people engage, you know,
with you, with Nancy Grace, with you know, all the
experts that were there, and I know ed was like
I had no idea what to expect, but this I had.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
No idea what to expect, Mac. It was it was
a lot. I just can't believe how many true crime
fans there are that would use their heart on money
and time to come right, like no offense. I like
the beach, you know, but these people, this is these
fans and these really smart people. What moved me the
most was the missing or unexplained absences of people the board.
(04:12):
I think that was incredibly tastefully done. It was right
in the busy hallway, and the amount of attention it grabbed,
I mean it was powerful. I visited that board many
a times because I do a cold case sort of squad.
If you will, team with uh doctor Burgess and Sarah
(04:34):
Kayleen and many others once a month at the end
end of every month, on a Tuesday night, we all
volunteer and we are profiling. We are I'm interpreting autopsy
reports or crime scene photos for them. And it just
made me realize how many of those cases haven't been
touched by someone, and haven't you know, the families All
(04:55):
they want is some traction. And that was I mean,
I got to meet amazing p people, amazing fans. But
I think, you know, the explorer sort of the puzzle
doer in the you know, what got me into this
really was drawn to the power of that board and like,
which case you know is going to be the one
(05:16):
that's solved or someone's going to be an Internet sleuth
looking because that board was there.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I understand that. And you know, I'm always captivating about
the people that have spent their life. You included Nancy
Grace and John Walsh and all these folks that have
dedicated their entire adult life to fighting for justice too.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Oh you know what. I hate to say this, but
I grew up with John Walsh, and I had no
idea he founded that center for the National Center for
Missing and Exploited Children. I had no idea, Like I
knew that existed, and it's so powerful. But meeting his
son Callahan and him, I mean, I just thanked them,
(05:58):
and especially Callahan or like continuing that right. Not every
child wants to continue in their father's I don't know, footsteps, shadow,
whatever you want to say, because he's such a prominent figure,
but that work was I mean, I'm a mom. I
think everybody knows that by this point to an eleven
year old, and I'm constantly worrying as she develops and
(06:21):
explores this world, like getting out there. How you know,
maybe my mind is I don't want to be Debbie
Downer on a Monday, But like you know, it's not perfect, right,
and letting your child into this world as a young
girl or boy can be scary. And I think that
work was just I said, I gave them my card,
I said whatever I can do for you, because as
(06:43):
a mom, that just drives me even more.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well, I saw you do that numerous times for a
lot of people, and not just the John Walshes. I
saw you do it for families nobody's ever heard of.
So it was wonderful for me from starting to finish
to around you and everybody else that was there, and.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, I feel the honor was mine. I feel like
to be around you and you know, learn from you.
But also this was my first crime con so I
went in just like ed like every moment was a
learning moment. But you know, I think what I like
to say is I just have a different job than
other people. You know, it doesn't make us more powerful,
(07:25):
more celebrity. That's not like why I went. I think
to meet people, and you never know about what meaningful
connections can be made with an audience member with another speaker,
you know, because Matt Murphy actually remembered something I don't
even remember what show it was, but he was like oh,
I remember that we were on a show together and
I liked your commentary. I agreed with it, and I'm like,
(07:46):
thank god he agreed with it. I don't want to remember.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Hey, I got to tell everybody something. I got to
bust in. Listen, y'all, doctor Pria. If y'all do not
know by now, when you are her friend, she takes
care of you, and she may do it in ways
you're not even realizing it's happening. But let me tell
you what she did. So crime Con is a world win.
(08:12):
You get there, there's immediately a party. You stay up.
It is a marathon. You stay up way too late
that first night, seeing everybody, enjoying everybody. I had a
nine o'clock session the very next day, and we went
that first night, that the full first day evening. Honey,
we sat out at that fire pit till like three am.
(08:36):
Then I had another nine am session. In order to
do your nine am session, you've got to be in
the green room by eight thirty. So I was delirious
that morning. All of a sudden, this young girl comes
up to me, a volunteer, and she said, excuse me,
are you Mac And I said yes, and I thought
she was going to lead me to the stage. She said,
(08:57):
this is from Dr Pria. She was worried you hat
and I had a thing to eat, and she made
me promise that I would bring you breakfast.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I'm back there. They were like, who is this
chick trying to bust in?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
But I want people to know that's who you are.
You could have slept in, you could have enjoyed a
leisure morning, but no, you wanted to be sure that
I wasn't going to just fall out. So I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
It's always a blueberry muffin and a diet coke. I know, Jorida.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It was awesome. And listen, I must have heard eighty times.
When are y'all going to talk about when people put
things in their body? Well, y'all, this is it. Get ready,
doctor Pria? Tell us, tell us honey.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
So many weird things. Oh my god, And these are
speaking from my experience. I'm not even making it up. Right. Well,
I need to give a shout out to Nicole and Jemmy,
who gave the real talk on this, right. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I'm going to tell you that child ooh.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Ooh seen a lot too, So I hope to not
duplicate but add to it. So shout out to her.
She was nothing but gracious. It was awesome to connect
and like minds, like maybe slightly twisted minds, but you know,
the work takes you there. So what have I seen? So,
you know, I think if there's an opening, you can
(10:21):
put something in it, right.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
And yeah, well I'm just saying, just speaking the truth, right, yeah,
and so you know I will leave it to be creative.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Obviously, there's you know, many sexual preferences where things are
you know, can go in and they're you know, sex
toys are very common, but that's meant to be there, right.
Hopefully they're not so big or so forcefully put in
that you can still hurt someone, you know. And I'm
(10:58):
trying not to be too graphic, but you know, putting
things in the rectum, you just need to be gentle.
You don't want to perforate anything. Same thing with the vagina, right,
things stretched, but only up to a point. And but
I have seen so many things sort of inadvertently either
put in or left it. And I'll explain that. So
(11:20):
probably one of my craziest stories I've had was a
guy who was going through a grocery store, and he
was rapidly eating things. Okay, and I don't know if
what I don't recall what his like background was. I
don't think he was homeless, but he might have had
some psychiatric issues, and I think that'll become obvious. So
(11:42):
he was eating strawberries out of a package, and I mean,
who hasn't been hungry when you're grocery shopping, right, I've
done it. I actually swing through the line, say hey,
I need a snack, and then I return, you know,
like so I pay for the piece of fruit or
the box of crackers whatever, you know, so it doesn't
look like I'm stealing. But he doesn't do that. He
(12:03):
just opens a thing of strawberries eight like four or
five and didn't decided he was gonna go through the
meat aisle.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So quite.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I mean, in any grocery strive bin, those are pretty
far apart. So he doesn't really snack on anything else.
He goes to the meat aisle, opens up a package
of steak and takes a humongous bite of raw meat. Okay,
it doesn't chew it, although he has teeth, okay, so
it's not that like, you know, just to say, like choking,
(12:33):
and those kinds of things can happen in people who
are elderly. Maybe they don't have secure dentures, maybe they're
or annual people with teeth, like poor teeth condition. Maybe
they don't have a lot of teeth, you know, so
they're they're really at fault, not just for not having
the teeth, but maybe they have like something that doesn't
(12:54):
allow them to swallow well, right, because swallowing is a
very coordinated thing. We have a flo that protects our airway, right,
That's why we don't choke when we eat. It's called
the epiglottis. It's a little flat that goes boop right
over the windpipe the trachea, and your food goes down
the right way. And we've i mean I've gagged right
like on water something that goes down the wrong way,
(13:15):
but you cough because the gag reflex. You don't want
stuff in that airway, right, if it gets all the
way to the lungs, you're gonna get pneumonia. And that's
called aspiration. And so when you have normal neurology, neurologic
function that is protected, your airways protected. But this guy,
for whatever reason, takes I mean it was like a
(13:38):
two and a half piece chunk of meat that I
recovered from his airway at autopsy. He swallowed it and
it got lodged in his airway. But this isn't a restaurant,
right this Who would think that this guy that drops
in the grocery store has a chunk of meat in
his airway. But when ems came, they could not intubate him,
(14:00):
could not get an airway. They didn't know why he
was not breathing. It was just far enough that they
couldn't see it. And so they're like, I don't know
why this guy died. And so when we got him
and I'm here exploring his stomach had those strawberries and
then a kid, you not, this was the tightest, huge
(14:20):
chunk of raw red meat in his throat, just completely blocking.
I mean, it had to be the volume of like
a golf ball, Like imagine a golf ball chunk of
raw meat in the throat. So you know, he can't
breathe and he falls to the ground and then his
brain doesn't get the oxygen that it needs. So that's
(14:42):
probably one of the weirdest, most unique cases I've had
where it just didn't make sense. And this was a
public area, right, so it's not that he's people don't
see him, but you don't really think this is why
he drops. I mean people saw like the open package
of meat, but it's such unusual behavior. I don't think
it like sort of came to them that that's what's
(15:04):
going on. But anyways, that's one thing. Of course, they're
the horrors of surgery, right, I mean I have seen it.
I've seen surgical clamps, towels, you know, those kinds of
things left in the body, and there's you know, usually
(15:24):
so much safety that's done to avoid this. Right where
you do, like they teach us in med school, when
you're doing surgery rotation, there's a towel count, there's a
clamp count, you know, the instrument count. You're supposed to
make sure, double check. There's a circulator nurse right ana
surgical tech that all make sure. So if they give
(15:46):
you fifty towels during surgery because someone's bleeding, you have
to make sure fifty are back. You know, you're not
supposed to leave them. And there's others. So we don't
use towels to pack. There's other packing material like you
can use to stop the bleeding or they have to
document that. You know, this is what's being used. And unfortunately,
(16:07):
I've seen traumas that don't end well. Usually that's why
they come to me. Where the towels. You know, it's
so emergency they're trying to stop bleeding, and when the
person passes away from their injuries, like the bleeding, okay,
the towels are left in. Does that make sense? And
it's actually really helpful to me at autopsy. If there's
twenty blood soak towels, well, I know how much this
(16:28):
person bled. You know, it sort of gives me an
idea because these are absorptive towels. These are like not
just thin, little dinky napkins or paper towels. These are
the blue surgical towels that are meant to really absorb things.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
You know, but I can see that in an emergency,
like if it's emergency surgery, you got eight people flying
around this person doing different jobs. I mean I get
that part. I feel like you kind of glossed over
the sex toys. I want to go back and ask
this question with the surgical aspect again. That is right
(17:09):
this very second. We weren't thinking about this person before
and now we're in the middle of trying to save
their life with the sex toy. You're thinking about it,
you're playing it, you're in the middle of doing something.
What is the death.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I don't think there's a lot of death. So usually
what I've seen is like autoerotic asphyxia. So people who
have unique sex practices where they like to be choked
or they have like it's an like a like a
(17:44):
sex act gone wrong. Let's say it's not a hanging suicide,
but they'll use ligatures around their neck as sort of
like there should be a safe word, there should be
a way to like undo it, you know. But what
happens is that are often where I see a lot
of sexual acts, right, I mean that in and of
(18:04):
itself goes wrong. But there are dildos, there are penis clamps,
there are leather straps and whips and all that. I mean.
So that actually is very important because it sets the
scene that this wasn't a suicide, right, I mean absolutely,
So you know it's not to be I'm not shaming anybody.
(18:26):
This is just pure observation, and it's actually I asked
these questions a lot because I want to know, you know,
we want the prime scene, right, we want to know
what's going on, and that sets the stage for the
way I'm thinking about it. And why is that important?
The manner of death? Right, So if you see this,
you don't want it to be a suicide. You know
(18:46):
that it's an accidental death with all the stuff that's around.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
But that's why I think it's important. That's why I
was asking you what normally causes the death, because we
had a scene that just when you walked in and
visually looked at the room, it looked like a suicide
until you really started to break down. Hey wait, there's
another neck tie over there where they practiced that not right.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Bondage is also common and not common, but I've seen it,
and what I want to say is that you don't
want to misinterpret bondage like a sexual bondage for like
a criminal hog tie or restraint, you know what I mean.
It's not a robbery run wrong. This is sort of
(19:34):
by choice. Now, I've seen it where that bondage doesn't
release again and then they can't undo the compression on
the neck. You know, that's what leads to death, you know.
But there's always sex toys, there's you know, so much
going on that it can also be alarming. Like I've
been called to a lot of these scenes because sometimes
the police are like whoa, and you know then it
(19:57):
becomes this, you know, the it's always a gray area, right,
nothing is black and white, nothing to see USI in
an hour, come on right as good as we are, Mac,
We're we're not TV. And what I say is, you
always got to make sure that you know something with consent,
you know, for personal pleasure doesn't turn criminal. Does that
(20:20):
make sense, Like it's not it's not staged, or it
doesn't turn twisted. You know, something with consent from two
or more people doesn't turn into something criminal where someone
is tied up and then something horrific happens to them.
You always, I mean, call me a cynic, right, but
I've seen enough that I walk around, and that's why,
(20:40):
like going to a scene or scene photos are so important.
You need to make sure like, oh, this is what happened.
And obviously I've never seen any other person stick around.
Once the partner dies in a sexual act, everybody's out
of there. So it's not like people are talking to
the police exsing one.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
That's right, they're so afraid of being in trouble, you know.
And we've seen things where people did not go to this,
you know, sex store and buy something. We've seen screwdrivers
and light bulbs and campsters and all sorts of things.
So it's really important for those new detectives, those rookie officers.
If it is a practice that you don't subscribe to,
(21:23):
you still need to know what it is. You need
to know it when you see it exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Oh, I've seen so many crazy things. I've seen bottles, cucumbers, carrots,
like any object that you think can be inserted. That's
a lay. I mean in some ways, the people with
sexual preferences for bondage, they're more sophisticated, right, They've gone
to a sex store and purchased or internet and purchase
(21:49):
stuff that's meant to be used, you know. And so
oh yeah, and I hate to say it. In residency,
we had taken no, we took note, the residents took note.
So we had to do something called a gross examination.
Not gross in the ew, but gross means like you
just look at the object and describe it and document
(22:11):
it for medical purposes. So you can only imagine many
things have been removed from bodies, right, Doc, I fell
on it. We're like okay, and the surgeon takes it
out or the gaserenrologist takes it out, and then it
gets sent to pathology for what's called this gross description.
So you have to measure and weigh and describe. But
hopefully those people were patients who are alive, you know,
(22:35):
so although it's maybe embarrassing at least there's not a
tragic ending.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
To it, right right, Well, like you said, if there's
an opening, you can feel it, and people have different
ways that they enjoy different things. So that's something that
you were going to be exposed to more than most
of us.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Oh yeah, definitely. You know, I hope not all of
them end tragically. That's a small percentage, but you know
that's that's really it, and you know that's not to
be so doom and gloom. But also when we think
about homicide sexual homicides, you know, you have to think
about every opening, needing swabbing for DNA swabbing, you know,
(23:18):
always check for a gag in a mouth for you know,
anything can be in there. I've even seen toilet paper
shoved all the way into the windpipe. The trachea as
a suicide means, you know, so when the person didn't
have access to much, they still were able to do
it very and that's very deliberately, you know, So in
(23:41):
all seriousness you would be surprised, like even things without
a cylindrical shape, right, can still be put in and
and and it's not obvious and so and then the
other thing is when larger objects are put in for
even sexual pleasure or for God forbid, for like rape,
(24:02):
it can be very injurious, you know. And not again
not to be doing gloom, but I know in India
there have been quite a few women who are tragically
injured because of forceful rape with arisodomy, with objects that
perforated them and so in their colon and stuff and
their vagina. And so that's really the most horrific thing
(24:27):
that you have to think about that you know, it
cannot just be for pleasure, but it can be criminal.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I think that's why your expertise is again so critical,
because when you're trying to determine accident versus criminal versus
something they willingly did. That also gives answers to families
and just to remind people, that's why we have to
interview past lovers. Is this something into so in patterns? Patterns?
(25:00):
What is in that bedside table drawer? What's in that
box on the top of your closet, because I'm going
to look, because I've got to know. She doesn't have
a dildo in this house. She doesn't have any movies
in this house. There's no movies on her computer, there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Her goes up, right.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
That's right, So why would she go from zero to
the most sophisticated sex wing that they can buy. It
doesn't make any sense. So you have to make it
where I can with confidence say this was an accident,
or this was deliberate, or she got herself in a
(25:38):
situation she didn't know how to get out of because
she didn't know what she's doing.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Well, and you know, we're here to educate the public,
and I really want to talk to the detectives out
there onlike TV. I do not carry a gun. I
had a badge when I was at the office that
allowed me to enter crime scenes, but I do not,
and my staff did not have the ability to do
the police work in terms of interviewing people, and so
(26:05):
being aware that this can be pleasurable, you know, someone's choice,
or it can be criminal. I mean, it's not always
comfortable to talk about these things, but that's the information
I need. I need those answers. And this is why
we work so closely. I want to educate. I teach
a lot, and I love teaching because even like regular
(26:28):
pathologists don't know about this, you know what I do,
They're not going to look at the world the way
we do right mac for better or for worse. And
I need them to get into my brain, like, hey, doc,
what answers do you need to certify this death? You know?
And I do go into things always with the cynical eye.
Even if it appears let's say accidental like autoerotic asphyxia,
(26:52):
I still need to make sure there's no unexplained injuries.
There's no you know, nothing's left in, nothing's inject did
that would worry me otherwise?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
And you know, speaking of crime con I want to
end this way. Did you see the muscle building guy
wearing the shirt that said I don't have a safe
word at the bar?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I know, And that's it, that's it, exactly the exactly
I thought.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yep. And here's what was funny to me looking at him,
there's a group that is pretty volatile in the prison system.
And I thought to myself, I bet you do. I
bet you do. Yeah, right, given the right circumstance. I mean,
you're trying to be funny, but given the right circumstance,
you're going to tell somebody to quit it. You know.
(27:42):
But listen, I had such a ball with you. I
cannot tell you all the dinners, all the walks, all
the looking at the bunny rabbits, all the sessions, the
meet and greets, the being at our table.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
It was my honor. And I can't wait. I'm already
planning for Vegas. I don't get paid for this, but
if Prime con wants to am your house me, I'm
open for it. Right, but I would love to. I
would love to do a talk to reach more people.
And it is a very powerful you know, I really
had no idea and I'm still sort of processing it.
How powerful that group is, how knowledgeable, Like they're not
(28:17):
grossed out. They're there for it to learn and hear,
you know, people like Matt Murphy, I mean, and Chris Hansen.
I didn't sleep well, you didn't see you stood, you know,
stayed up late the first night I couldn't sleep after
the roadblocks talk being a parent, you know, and so
you know what you learn. It's even continuing medical education,
(28:40):
and I don't know, is there continuing parent education for life?
I mean, that's what it was for me.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
It was parents.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Oh my god. I cried. I cried so much that
week and I couldn't believe it. Every time someone was
talking about their child. I cried through that session. I
couldn't and I was in the front row. I'm supposed
to be strong and handle death. Look, everybody, when it's
your child, it's unex you know, unexplainable. There's no getting
over it right there, there's no getting over it. And
(29:08):
their power and what they're doing now is incredible. You know,
I covered it, right, I covered Gaby's death court TV,
other channels. I know you know the condition of her
body and I think you and I unfortunately can visualize that,
right And it was so powerful to hear her parents.
(29:30):
I mean, I'm not sure I would be as I
don't know, positive or standing up like they were. You
know what about their no they're oh my god, Yeah,
I cried there too, that Ethan smiles. I followed them
on Instagrams right after that. So just those the power
of the work that the parents, the survivors are doing
(29:53):
are just incredible.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Amen. Well, I appreciate you, sugar, and I had a ball.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
You can hear row Vegas. You can count on it.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Ah some I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
M mm hmm
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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