December 15, 2025 • 25 mins
From college dorms to quiet suburbs, fentanyl's reach no longer fits a stereotype.
This week on Pathology with Dr. Priya, a Zone 7 series, Sheryl McCollum and Dr. Priya Banerjee confront the reality of a Providence College house party that nearly claimed seven young lives.
Together they discussed the chemistry, economics, and criminal psychology behind modern synthetic drugs, showing how a single white powder can conceal a fatal mix, and how dealers prioritize profit over safety. These drugs do not discriminate; they affect every community, every family, and every socioeconomic group.
For parents, this episode serves as a reminder that prevention begins long before a crisis. Awareness, honest conversation, and early education remain the most powerful safeguards against tragedy.
Highlights
• (0:00) Welcome to Zone 7’s Pathology with Dr. Priya: “’Tis the season”: why overdoses spike between Thanksgiving and New Year’s
• (0:45) Seven Providence College students found unresponsive at a house party
• (3:00) Fentanyl's evolution from heroin corridors to every college town in America
• (5:00) Cutting agents and chemical roulette: what's really in the “white powder”
• (7:00) Xylazine, ketamine, and the rise of “zombie drugs” and clandestine labs
• (11:15) Dealers, profit, and the deadly absence of quality control
• (12:30) "Drugs don't discriminate": how overdose affects every class and community
• (16:30) As holiday parties ramp up, Sheryl and Dr. Priya address alcohol, impaired driving, and false confidence behind the wheel• (18:15) “There ain’t a drug dealer out there that cares about anybody they’ve ever sold to”: how profit drives addiction across every demographic
• (22:15) Final reflections: stay aware, stay connected, and keep the season focused on life, not loss
About the Hosts
Dr. Priya Banerjee is a board-certified forensic pathologist with extensive experience in death investigation, clinical forensics, and courtroom testimony. A graduate of Johns Hopkins, she served for over a decade as Rhode Island’s state medical examiner and now runs a private forensic pathology practice. Her work includes military deaths, and high-profile investigations. Dr. Priya has also been featured as a forensic expert on platforms such as CrimeOnline and Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She is a dedicated educator, animal lover, and proud mom.
Website: anchorforensicpathology.com
Twitter/X: @Autopsy_MD
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an active crime scene investigator for a Metro Atlanta Police Department and the director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, which partners with colleges and universities nationwide. With more than 4 decades of experience, she has worked on thousands of cold cases using her investigative system, The Last 24/361, which integrates evidence, media, and advanced forensic testing. Her work on high-profile cases, including The Boston Strangler, Natalie Holloway, Tupac Shakur and the Moore’s Ford Bridge lynching, led to her Emmy Award for CSI: Atlanta and induction into the National Law Enforcement Hall of Fame in 2023.
Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
Twitter/X: @ColdCaseTips
Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
📚 Preorder Sheryl’s upcoming book,
Swans Don’t Swim in a Sewer: Lessons in Life, Justice, and Joy from a Forensic Scientist, releasing May 2026 from Simon and Schuster.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Swans-Dont-Swim-in-a-Sewer/Sheryl-Mac-McCollum/9798895652824
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Y'all. In my business, we tend to say tis the season,
but what we mean is from Thanksgiving to New Year's Day,
certain crimes go up. They skyrocket. This Monday with doctor
Pria is important to me because she has the same
(00:29):
experience this time of year, overdoses become prevalent in her town.
Seven students odeed at Providence College at a house party.
Seven were unresponsive. Seven students. Now, I'm going to bring
(00:51):
doctor Pria right on in here because she has got
to talk directly, not just to students, but to parents,
to neighbors, to people that live in college towns, and
it's not just colleges. But that's what we want to
focus on tonight because that's the demographic we're going to see.
(01:12):
Doctor Pria. Thank you so much for dedicating this particular
show to this important topic.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So I guess, you know, I want to say that
I brought this to our attention, and you know, every
week we sort of pick a topic, and there couldn't
have been a more impactful topic to me this week
because it is literally hitting home for me. So you know,
maybe some listeners throughout the universe, you know, the United States,
(01:44):
no Providence College is a highly respected private Catholic school. Right,
it happens to be in Providence, Rhode Island, hop skipping
a jump away. That's where I worked, and that's where
Court is. That's downtown. It's to happen part of Rhode Island,
and within that it is one of the major academic
(02:05):
institutions in our state. I mean, it's very proud. I
know many of people who have graduated from they're very
well respected. And so it's not like, you know, it
carries this reputation and yes, you know college kids there's
a spectrum everywhere, right, but seven families were so incredibly
(02:28):
lucky because these kids did.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Not pass if it weren't for narca, and they would
have that's right.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So you know, it just brought it back to the
forefront for me that you know, we always hear about
fentanyl and you know this and that, and you think, okay,
it's only in inner cities. You know, when I started
practicing as an emmy and training, you know, I trained
in Baltimore, right, which is right in that Route ninety
(02:57):
five like Heroin Corridor. They used to call it right
Baltimore to New York to Boston. And you know, it
was heroin back then. If anybody's watched the wire, that
was very true to form. It taped right around Hopkins
and then East Baltimore where I trained, So I mean
I was living seeing that daily. But that's not Providence College.
(03:20):
You know, We're dealing with a different socioeconomic group, different
racial makeup. And that's really what I want to say
is there is no stereotype for a person who can
be affected by drugs. Drugs do not care. And when
I say drugs, really what's changed in my lifetime, my
(03:40):
fifteen year career is it's gone from heroin to fentanyl
and fentanyl analogs, which are basically brothers and sisters chemical
brothers and sisters of fentanyl, but they all act the same.
Fentanyl is fifty to one hundred times more powerful than morphine. Right,
so people have no idea what they're doing. And these
(04:01):
kids had no idea, I bet you, And most of
the time what I've seen is and it's really devastating.
People don't have to be habitual long term addicts. Do
you understand, like some people party on the weekend. You
don't even know what you're getting, right, they think it's cocaine.
(04:22):
I'm gonna take a little hit. But when it's cocaine
mixed with fentanyl, which has so many street names, I
think it was going with like diesel at one point.
I don't even know all the like slang terms for it.
But people think it gives me a better high like
speedballs used to, which was heroin and cocaine. So now
it's even upping the anti well, it ups it too
(04:44):
much and then people overdose. So white powder is deceiving you.
Don't you think it's pure cocaine. It's not. It can
be so many other things, and that is terrifying.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
It could be anything from baby aspirin to something you
bacon soda. But listen, let's get real about something else too.
You said correctly that drugs don't discriminate. Well, I'm gonna
flat tell you your drug dealer doesn't care about you at.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
All, at all, at all, don't.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
And they're gonna cut this stuff with such a variety
of so they.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Can cut it with the rat poison, blood dinner, of course,
you know, so you could even bleed to death. We've
had cases that I remember in my career where the
person's like bleeding into their body and we're like what
the heck. And then when we test the evidence from
the scene, we realized that it was a blood dinner
used to cut the cocaine or the heroine or whatever.
(05:44):
The fentadel dot.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
They use formaldehyde, yep.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Anything any white they can cut it with.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And here's the dollar, sugar, baking soda, anything.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
They won't to increase profits, of course, they want to enhance.
It's the effect so that people come back and they
want to try something else and they can name it
something new. They want to make the product more bulky,
so again they're getting more profit. They it looks like
you're getting a huge amount of whatever drug you're buying.
You aren't, I promise you. And you know you're talking
(06:21):
about fentanyl. I mean that's a hundred times more powerful
than heroin. And at the time we thought heroin was
the worst thing ever. But I'm going to date myself
a little bit. I started working before we had crack,
and when that came on the scene, that was so
scary to me. Well, now you've got meth, you've got
(06:42):
fentanyl that they put in all kinds of things, and
you know they're not going to stop and venting stuff.
They're not going to stop using things, I mean, catamine.
I mean, who would have ever thought, hey, I'll take
two horse tranquilizers and some ventanyl Like what in the world.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, And I mean, you know, not to deviate too far.
But you know, I had the first case of xylazine
intoxication in Rhode Island and I presented that in twenty twelve,
at which point that's that's a horse tranquilizer that they
see in Puerto Rico, a lot mixed into the supply
and then people are walking around like zombies, you know.
(07:23):
And you know, now it's being mixed into the more
popular supply chain here, and you know, I think it's twofold.
One is you know, drugs go through many hands at
many levels right before it gets to the street, and
the focus is money, and everybody's trying not to be
(07:46):
killed by the distribute, you know, by the higher bosses,
by getting caught whatever it is. Right, hopefully they're not
even using their own supply, but they are just moving product.
So the product is the drugs. But ultimately this trick
down effect no one has. It's like a hot potato, right,
it's just passed along. No one actually knows there's no
(08:09):
quality control. There's no chemistry involved as to how much
drug is in the what the concentration is. There's no
FDA like measuring, right, And so that's the thing that
I think people don't realize, or you're getting a random
packet at the end. And I think the scariest thing
(08:31):
was now they have three people in custody as being
sort of the preparers distributors of the drugs, but none
of these people are doing any quality assurance or whatnot.
They're trying to maximize profit. What these people and anybody
else involved care about is money and fentanyl. It's sexy
(08:51):
as a drug, if you will, for many reasons. One
is it doesn't rely on the opium poppy. Right, you
don't need to grow a flower. You just use chemical
so you can make as many chemicals. And then there's
secret labs they call them clandestine labs, where it's made.
Then it shipped. So if it's fifty two one hundred
times stronger than morphine, you can just ship it and
(09:15):
cut it that much more. Cutting means diluting it, mixing
it with what god knows what, as we were talking about,
another cheap white powder, and then you get more doses
out of it, right, And so now they're also trying
to mix things to see what hits better. Right, because
if it's a better high, people will come back to
(09:37):
that drug dealer. Right. And now the scary part is,
you know, if there's other things mixed in their catamine cocaine,
narcan doesn't work on those. It only works on the
fentanyl or fent, not only but the fentanyl analogues. Okay,
analogus being the fancy word for related chemical comp So
(10:02):
you know, if something is mixed in or taken with
alcohol or at a party or other things, you just
have this crazy dangerous mix. And I think, why does
it go up?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Now?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Well, it's end of the semester. We're getting close to
that Christmas holidays. Kids are relaxing, people are coming back together.
If you think about it, people are coming back together
from different universities, coming back home. This may be their
first or second semester away at college. Right, they haven't
seen their high school friends and people get together and right,
(10:34):
like we often say, you're going on in life, but
the brain hasn't caught up in maturity. You know, this
is often a parenting worry that many of my doctor friends,
and I share that those that have had kids go
to college, you're like releasing them into the big world.
But they're still eighteen year olds, nineteen year olds, right,
(10:54):
and they are then sort of out of the loop.
And then they're coming back part And then you have
this scary, scary like possibility. I mean the fact that
these kids lived and I hope they don't have any
lasting damage from the overdose. I mean, that's like a miracle.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well here's the other reality. Think like a drug dealer.
They know every college campus, they know every fraternity, every sorority,
every team. Think about it, these seventeen, eighteen, nineteen year
olds are away from home for the first time. They've
got cash money, they're not coming home so mom and
(11:36):
dad can catch them, you know, looking at their eyes,
looking at their mannerisms, and they want to get wild,
they want to meet these friends, they want to try
things they've never tried. And that to me is a
recipe for disaster. Exactly what we saw at Providence College.
I'm actually surprised that doesn't happen more.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Well, you know, and that it could be twofold could
be happening. It just didn't make the news, you know.
But obviously there was a massive you know, I want
to give a shout out to all the first responders
because they didn't hesitate to go there and expose themselves,
and you know, police and ems that those are the heroes, right,
(12:21):
Like I don't think in this any article I really
saw that being mentioned. That's how I feel. And as
a mother, you know, Dia is still younger than college age.
But it's funny because I showed her something the other
day preparing a report that I was like, look at this,
and she goes, Mommy, that looks like candy. And I
(12:44):
get very paranoid about her getting candy from friends, which
is a sad reality for a child. But I said,
I will buy you all the candy in the world.
But she goes, oh, those look like smarties. Those look
like yeah, and you know what they were. They were
diverted like illicit fentanyl pills, made to look like candy,
(13:06):
so kids would be attracted to them or they would
sort of go buy the drug detection because they look
like candy, not you know, not drugs. So I mean
they were pastel color, like my daughter's comforter.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And you know that's on purpose yellow, and it's on Paris,
of course it is, but they know how to market,
they know what they're doing, correct. There is not a
drug dealer that I have ever met that's got a
chemistry degree. And y'all that's why some of those clandestine graves,
those meth labs, they blow up, people get killed, people
(13:42):
get hurt because they really don't know what they're doing,
especially when they're trying out the new latest way to
try to get something more potent.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Right, They're always trying new combos, but especially if they're
doing the chemistry behind the scenes like that. You know,
I hate to say it. I love the show Breaking Bad,
but it's TV. It's not reality, right, And remember they
showed one of the characters being, you know, Heisenberger, you know,
(14:16):
having being a chemistry teacher. I think that's a rare occurrence.
That's TV, not reality. And how flammable it is. You know,
that even happened here in Providence at a hotel, like
the hotel room caught on fire and it was ended
up being like a cooking lab for drugs. But really,
(14:36):
what we're here to talk about tonight, I think is
the unrecognized hazards and you know, people trying to enjoy themselves,
which I would never not want, you know, but really
the caution and I think it's twofold the kids if
they listen to this, but parents, right, So a lot
(14:58):
of my doctor friends who they were sending their kids
off to college had like they were giving fentanyl test strips,
you know, whether their kid was gonna use it or
if they're you know, if they're in a situation, and
the thought is, okay, if it tests positive, then don't
do the drugs, trying to prevent overdoses. But really nothing
(15:22):
is one hundred percent other than not using it. And
I know this sounds preachy, but really, like you have
to understand, it doesn't take a lot, and it does
not discriminate. It doesn't care if you're a four point
oh student or if you're a one point oh student. Okay,
it is how the drugs work in your body. And
I have seen the devastation. I was contacted about a
(15:45):
second autopsy in a Boston student first semester. I'm not
going to give a lot away, but first semester student
from a very wealthy background at a very wealthy school
who overdosed. And so it does this is not an
isolated story Boston has it, Providence has it, and I'm
sure many big college towns or little college towns around
(16:07):
the country. So this is not you know, because this
is kept happening to me sort of very personally, you know,
I'm like, my god, and I feel like in some
ways the Fentanel story has faded into the background, maybe
because of other you know whatever sexy in the news, politics,
holiday shopping. People sort of get diverted, right like they don't.
(16:29):
But I just wanted to bring it to the forefront
that it's still out there and you don't know what
people are giving to you. You don't know what you're
buying or your friend has, you know, and that's scary.
Plus the alcohol. I mean, I still say that alcohol
is the most abused drug in the world, in the country,
(16:50):
and you know, the drinking and driving terrifies me. There's
a lot of holiday parties, so you know, there's a
sort of increased use of it, and the alcohol is flowing.
But I can, you know, without giving away certain things.
I mean, I've had tragic duys, you know, deaths resulting
(17:14):
The Rhode Island actually had an amazing program that I
participated in as the Emmy early in my career, and
I don't know. I think the funding got cut, but
it was related to people who were incarcerated for DUI
death resulting and one was a student from Uri. He
(17:34):
was an Asian student. He spoke so highly about how
his life was ruined because he drunk drove and someone
died in the accident, and the friend died. He's been
in car I mean, he was from a great home,
great background. Again, like right, it doesn't matter who you are.
Alcohol treats everybody the same. Obviously we have slightly different metabolisms,
(17:55):
but once you have enough in your body, that's it,
you know. And I think that's the other thing that
scares me is sort of I think people let their
guard down, right. Oh, I want to have fun. I'm
on winter break. I want to see my family, I
want to see my friends. But and you know, drinks
might be spiked and it can get very dangerous, very.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Quickly if we just take all the layers away. In
its raw ast form, there ain't a drug dealer out
there that cares about anybody. They've ever sold to, no one,
And if you look at it, that's why they go
(18:36):
to college campuses and high schools and middle schools. That's
why they go to rehab places and just wait outside.
They wait outside at halfway houses. They know their marks.
You are a pigeon. They are coming at you and
they have already picked you out because of something that
(18:56):
you've shown them. So I'm just his way exactly that.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You know, if you're going to be a customer, they
want you. They don't, but it's not. They're salesmen or
saleswomen or whatever you want to call them, right, salespeople
and at the end of the day, it's just making
the deal and the after math or the after effects
are totally that doesn't even cross their mind.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Doc Crag was so addictive. Remember they gave.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It from in the eighties, Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
A d gave it a way because they knew you
were going to.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
And it destroyed careers of the like Marion Barry. I
don't know if you knew of him, but he was.
I mean, it was. And that's what I want to
say is look at the history. You know you have
people in all I mean, I hate to say it,
crack often had a negative type associated with lower economic classes,
(20:02):
but that's not true, right. It definitely permeated other social
classes and once people got addicted, I mean it had
like vice gripts on them. That may be an extreme example.
And what I've seen tragically through my career is, of
course there's people that get addicted, and I mean the
(20:24):
entryway to addiction is so complex, and I've seen so
many people after surgery, after a bad car accident, like
you know, unfortunately, I see the terrible outcomes of it.
But you know, we don't know the history. And so
when I see sort of all comers, as I say,
(20:45):
it's you know, I love my job because of the
different stories. I hate to say it that bring people there,
but it like really humanizes the cases. But at the
same time it's scary. It does not matter if you
come from a suburb, you know, the city, inner city,
outer city. It does not matter the country because at
the same time, once you know, once you're getting a
(21:07):
hold on a drug or whatever, and I mean it
doesn't even to be the drug you'd think it is, right,
I mean, oxy coda and tablets are the most counterfitted
out there. Right, they say, I'm selling you OxyS and
ends up being fentanyl. Come on, you know, And that's
I think when I showed my young daughter those pictures
(21:28):
and said, why did you know? Because she got candy
from someone. I said, you're not supposed to eat candy
from someone. She just didn't realize how similar things were
and I showed her. And you know, kids trade things
at lunch all the time, even if you're not supposed to.
But you know, now we're seeing it. I mean, I say, kids,
(21:48):
and my daughter's going to be twelve, but you know,
time flies. Eighteen's not that far away and then they're adults, right,
But we know that that's not how the brain matures.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
The other thing scary by the time she gets to
college is there's going to be something to worry about.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You know. But it is a beautiful season. It is
the holidays. Everybody wants to be together and have a
great time and absolutely be with the people that you love.
But you know, doctor Praya, again, I appreciate you coming
on here and saying, Okay, here's the deal between now
and New Year's you gotta be aware, right.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And we got to stay alive, right. We want to
enjoy the season, not not suffer during it, and not
you know, bring sadness to families. We want to thrive
and so that really is what this is about. And
it's been in our news a lot, but I really
want everyone to say, you know, I mean, you don't
(22:52):
even know what town state your drugs are coming from, right,
like how far away? So you really need to just
you know again, stair, steer clear and drive safe like
call an uber, call your parents, call someone, anybody will
come and get you. Not to drunk drive as well.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And you know, I'm gonna say it like this. I
saw this hilarious woman online and she was talking about
Thanksgiving and she said, look, don't bring anybody new. If
you've only been dating the week, don't bring that person.
Don't put them in all the pictures because we're just
gonna have to cut them out. Don't try a new recipe,
not a thank Oh that's right, Okay, I'm gonna give
you the same advice with a little twist. Don't buy
(23:38):
something from somebody you've never bought before from. Don't try
a drug you've never tried before. Don't get cute now,
don't do it if you don't know the person, you
don't trust the person, if you've never done the drug,
it's gonna kill you.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I think that's the safe assumption that it only takes once.
And I've seen that more often than not and had
to deliver that news to parents on the phone who
don't believe my diagnoses at autopsy, and that's heartbreaking because.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
It's all heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
There is no there's no history, and you have to
be the one to deliver that news. It's it's you know,
there's any time you have to talk to a family
and hear someone you know burst out with a shrieking cry,
that's really you know, as a mom, it tears you apart.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
And you know that's another thing. If you you know,
were that four point oh student you were talking about
in high school. You didn't do drugs in high school.
Those parents are going to sit there forever and go, wow,
why would he do that? Why would he take that?
Why would he smoke that when he's never done it before?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Exactly? That's the that's you know, make it a season
of nice, you know, happy memory is not not sad one.
So I hope this, you know, may at least brings
pause to people who listen and you know, can be
safe out there.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Nope, it's timely and appreciate it. Thank you, doctor, Banerjie.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yes, good ye.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
We will see you next Monday with pathology with doctor Priya.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
All right, take care until next time.
Y'all. In my business, we tend to say tis the season,
but what we mean is from Thanksgiving to New Year's Day,
certain crimes go up. They skyrocket. This Monday with doctor
Pria is important to me because she has the same
(00:29):
experience this time of year, overdoses become prevalent in her town.
Seven students odeed at Providence College at a house party.
Seven were unresponsive. Seven students. Now, I'm going to bring
(00:51):
doctor Pria right on in here because she has got
to talk directly, not just to students, but to parents,
to neighbors, to people that live in college towns, and
it's not just colleges. But that's what we want to
focus on tonight because that's the demographic we're going to see.
(01:12):
Doctor Pria. Thank you so much for dedicating this particular
show to this important topic.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So I guess, you know, I want to say that
I brought this to our attention, and you know, every
week we sort of pick a topic, and there couldn't
have been a more impactful topic to me this week
because it is literally hitting home for me. So you know,
maybe some listeners throughout the universe, you know, the United States,
(01:44):
no Providence College is a highly respected private Catholic school. Right,
it happens to be in Providence, Rhode Island, hop skipping
a jump away. That's where I worked, and that's where
Court is. That's downtown. It's to happen part of Rhode Island,
and within that it is one of the major academic
(02:05):
institutions in our state. I mean, it's very proud. I
know many of people who have graduated from they're very
well respected. And so it's not like, you know, it
carries this reputation and yes, you know college kids there's
a spectrum everywhere, right, but seven families were so incredibly
(02:28):
lucky because these kids did.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Not pass if it weren't for narca, and they would
have that's right.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So you know, it just brought it back to the
forefront for me that you know, we always hear about
fentanyl and you know this and that, and you think, okay,
it's only in inner cities. You know, when I started
practicing as an emmy and training, you know, I trained
in Baltimore, right, which is right in that Route ninety
(02:57):
five like Heroin Corridor. They used to call it right
Baltimore to New York to Boston. And you know, it
was heroin back then. If anybody's watched the wire, that
was very true to form. It taped right around Hopkins
and then East Baltimore where I trained, So I mean
I was living seeing that daily. But that's not Providence College.
(03:20):
You know, We're dealing with a different socioeconomic group, different
racial makeup. And that's really what I want to say
is there is no stereotype for a person who can
be affected by drugs. Drugs do not care. And when
I say drugs, really what's changed in my lifetime, my
(03:40):
fifteen year career is it's gone from heroin to fentanyl
and fentanyl analogs, which are basically brothers and sisters chemical
brothers and sisters of fentanyl, but they all act the same.
Fentanyl is fifty to one hundred times more powerful than morphine. Right,
so people have no idea what they're doing. And these
(04:01):
kids had no idea, I bet you, And most of
the time what I've seen is and it's really devastating.
People don't have to be habitual long term addicts. Do
you understand, like some people party on the weekend. You
don't even know what you're getting, right, they think it's cocaine.
(04:22):
I'm gonna take a little hit. But when it's cocaine
mixed with fentanyl, which has so many street names, I
think it was going with like diesel at one point.
I don't even know all the like slang terms for it.
But people think it gives me a better high like
speedballs used to, which was heroin and cocaine. So now
it's even upping the anti well, it ups it too
(04:44):
much and then people overdose. So white powder is deceiving you.
Don't you think it's pure cocaine. It's not. It can
be so many other things, and that is terrifying.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
It could be anything from baby aspirin to something you
bacon soda. But listen, let's get real about something else too.
You said correctly that drugs don't discriminate. Well, I'm gonna
flat tell you your drug dealer doesn't care about you at.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
All, at all, at all, don't.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
And they're gonna cut this stuff with such a variety
of so they.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Can cut it with the rat poison, blood dinner, of course,
you know, so you could even bleed to death. We've
had cases that I remember in my career where the
person's like bleeding into their body and we're like what
the heck. And then when we test the evidence from
the scene, we realized that it was a blood dinner
used to cut the cocaine or the heroine or whatever.
(05:44):
The fentadel dot.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
They use formaldehyde, yep.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Anything any white they can cut it with.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And here's the dollar, sugar, baking soda, anything.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
They won't to increase profits, of course, they want to enhance.
It's the effect so that people come back and they
want to try something else and they can name it
something new. They want to make the product more bulky,
so again they're getting more profit. They it looks like
you're getting a huge amount of whatever drug you're buying.
You aren't, I promise you. And you know you're talking
(06:21):
about fentanyl. I mean that's a hundred times more powerful
than heroin. And at the time we thought heroin was
the worst thing ever. But I'm going to date myself
a little bit. I started working before we had crack,
and when that came on the scene, that was so
scary to me. Well, now you've got meth, you've got
(06:42):
fentanyl that they put in all kinds of things, and
you know they're not going to stop and venting stuff.
They're not going to stop using things, I mean, catamine.
I mean, who would have ever thought, hey, I'll take
two horse tranquilizers and some ventanyl Like what in the world.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, And I mean, you know, not to deviate too far.
But you know, I had the first case of xylazine
intoxication in Rhode Island and I presented that in twenty twelve,
at which point that's that's a horse tranquilizer that they
see in Puerto Rico, a lot mixed into the supply
and then people are walking around like zombies, you know.
(07:23):
And you know, now it's being mixed into the more
popular supply chain here, and you know, I think it's twofold.
One is you know, drugs go through many hands at
many levels right before it gets to the street, and
the focus is money, and everybody's trying not to be
(07:46):
killed by the distribute, you know, by the higher bosses,
by getting caught whatever it is. Right, hopefully they're not
even using their own supply, but they are just moving product.
So the product is the drugs. But ultimately this trick
down effect no one has. It's like a hot potato, right,
it's just passed along. No one actually knows there's no
(08:09):
quality control. There's no chemistry involved as to how much
drug is in the what the concentration is. There's no
FDA like measuring, right, And so that's the thing that
I think people don't realize, or you're getting a random
packet at the end. And I think the scariest thing
(08:31):
was now they have three people in custody as being
sort of the preparers distributors of the drugs, but none
of these people are doing any quality assurance or whatnot.
They're trying to maximize profit. What these people and anybody
else involved care about is money and fentanyl. It's sexy
(08:51):
as a drug, if you will, for many reasons. One
is it doesn't rely on the opium poppy. Right, you
don't need to grow a flower. You just use chemical
so you can make as many chemicals. And then there's
secret labs they call them clandestine labs, where it's made.
Then it shipped. So if it's fifty two one hundred
times stronger than morphine, you can just ship it and
(09:15):
cut it that much more. Cutting means diluting it, mixing
it with what god knows what, as we were talking about,
another cheap white powder, and then you get more doses
out of it, right, And so now they're also trying
to mix things to see what hits better. Right, because
if it's a better high, people will come back to
(09:37):
that drug dealer. Right. And now the scary part is,
you know, if there's other things mixed in their catamine cocaine,
narcan doesn't work on those. It only works on the
fentanyl or fent, not only but the fentanyl analogues. Okay,
analogus being the fancy word for related chemical comp So
(10:02):
you know, if something is mixed in or taken with
alcohol or at a party or other things, you just
have this crazy dangerous mix. And I think, why does
it go up?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Now?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Well, it's end of the semester. We're getting close to
that Christmas holidays. Kids are relaxing, people are coming back together.
If you think about it, people are coming back together
from different universities, coming back home. This may be their
first or second semester away at college. Right, they haven't
seen their high school friends and people get together and right,
(10:34):
like we often say, you're going on in life, but
the brain hasn't caught up in maturity. You know, this
is often a parenting worry that many of my doctor friends,
and I share that those that have had kids go
to college, you're like releasing them into the big world.
But they're still eighteen year olds, nineteen year olds, right,
(10:54):
and they are then sort of out of the loop.
And then they're coming back part And then you have
this scary, scary like possibility. I mean the fact that
these kids lived and I hope they don't have any
lasting damage from the overdose. I mean, that's like a miracle.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well here's the other reality. Think like a drug dealer.
They know every college campus, they know every fraternity, every sorority,
every team. Think about it, these seventeen, eighteen, nineteen year
olds are away from home for the first time. They've
got cash money, they're not coming home so mom and
(11:36):
dad can catch them, you know, looking at their eyes,
looking at their mannerisms, and they want to get wild,
they want to meet these friends, they want to try
things they've never tried. And that to me is a
recipe for disaster. Exactly what we saw at Providence College.
I'm actually surprised that doesn't happen more.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Well, you know, and that it could be twofold could
be happening. It just didn't make the news, you know.
But obviously there was a massive you know, I want
to give a shout out to all the first responders
because they didn't hesitate to go there and expose themselves,
and you know, police and ems that those are the heroes, right,
(12:21):
Like I don't think in this any article I really
saw that being mentioned. That's how I feel. And as
a mother, you know, Dia is still younger than college age.
But it's funny because I showed her something the other
day preparing a report that I was like, look at this,
and she goes, Mommy, that looks like candy. And I
(12:44):
get very paranoid about her getting candy from friends, which
is a sad reality for a child. But I said,
I will buy you all the candy in the world.
But she goes, oh, those look like smarties. Those look
like yeah, and you know what they were. They were
diverted like illicit fentanyl pills, made to look like candy,
(13:06):
so kids would be attracted to them or they would
sort of go buy the drug detection because they look
like candy, not you know, not drugs. So I mean
they were pastel color, like my daughter's comforter.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And you know that's on purpose yellow, and it's on Paris,
of course it is, but they know how to market,
they know what they're doing, correct. There is not a
drug dealer that I have ever met that's got a
chemistry degree. And y'all that's why some of those clandestine graves,
those meth labs, they blow up, people get killed, people
(13:42):
get hurt because they really don't know what they're doing,
especially when they're trying out the new latest way to
try to get something more potent.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Right, They're always trying new combos, but especially if they're
doing the chemistry behind the scenes like that. You know,
I hate to say it. I love the show Breaking Bad,
but it's TV. It's not reality, right, And remember they
showed one of the characters being, you know, Heisenberger, you know,
(14:16):
having being a chemistry teacher. I think that's a rare occurrence.
That's TV, not reality. And how flammable it is. You know,
that even happened here in Providence at a hotel, like
the hotel room caught on fire and it was ended
up being like a cooking lab for drugs. But really,
(14:36):
what we're here to talk about tonight, I think is
the unrecognized hazards and you know, people trying to enjoy themselves,
which I would never not want, you know, but really
the caution and I think it's twofold the kids if
they listen to this, but parents, right, So a lot
(14:58):
of my doctor friends who they were sending their kids
off to college had like they were giving fentanyl test strips,
you know, whether their kid was gonna use it or
if they're you know, if they're in a situation, and
the thought is, okay, if it tests positive, then don't
do the drugs, trying to prevent overdoses. But really nothing
(15:22):
is one hundred percent other than not using it. And
I know this sounds preachy, but really, like you have
to understand, it doesn't take a lot, and it does
not discriminate. It doesn't care if you're a four point
oh student or if you're a one point oh student. Okay,
it is how the drugs work in your body. And
I have seen the devastation. I was contacted about a
(15:45):
second autopsy in a Boston student first semester. I'm not
going to give a lot away, but first semester student
from a very wealthy background at a very wealthy school
who overdosed. And so it does this is not an
isolated story Boston has it, Providence has it, and I'm
sure many big college towns or little college towns around
(16:07):
the country. So this is not you know, because this
is kept happening to me sort of very personally, you know,
I'm like, my god, and I feel like in some
ways the Fentanel story has faded into the background, maybe
because of other you know whatever sexy in the news, politics,
holiday shopping. People sort of get diverted, right like they don't.
(16:29):
But I just wanted to bring it to the forefront
that it's still out there and you don't know what
people are giving to you. You don't know what you're
buying or your friend has, you know, and that's scary.
Plus the alcohol. I mean, I still say that alcohol
is the most abused drug in the world, in the country,
(16:50):
and you know, the drinking and driving terrifies me. There's
a lot of holiday parties, so you know, there's a
sort of increased use of it, and the alcohol is flowing.
But I can, you know, without giving away certain things.
I mean, I've had tragic duys, you know, deaths resulting
(17:14):
The Rhode Island actually had an amazing program that I
participated in as the Emmy early in my career, and
I don't know. I think the funding got cut, but
it was related to people who were incarcerated for DUI
death resulting and one was a student from Uri. He
(17:34):
was an Asian student. He spoke so highly about how
his life was ruined because he drunk drove and someone
died in the accident, and the friend died. He's been
in car I mean, he was from a great home,
great background. Again, like right, it doesn't matter who you are.
Alcohol treats everybody the same. Obviously we have slightly different metabolisms,
(17:55):
but once you have enough in your body, that's it,
you know. And I think that's the other thing that
scares me is sort of I think people let their
guard down, right. Oh, I want to have fun. I'm
on winter break. I want to see my family, I
want to see my friends. But and you know, drinks
might be spiked and it can get very dangerous, very.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Quickly if we just take all the layers away. In
its raw ast form, there ain't a drug dealer out
there that cares about anybody. They've ever sold to, no one,
And if you look at it, that's why they go
(18:36):
to college campuses and high schools and middle schools. That's
why they go to rehab places and just wait outside.
They wait outside at halfway houses. They know their marks.
You are a pigeon. They are coming at you and
they have already picked you out because of something that
(18:56):
you've shown them. So I'm just his way exactly that.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You know, if you're going to be a customer, they
want you. They don't, but it's not. They're salesmen or
saleswomen or whatever you want to call them, right, salespeople
and at the end of the day, it's just making
the deal and the after math or the after effects
are totally that doesn't even cross their mind.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Doc Crag was so addictive. Remember they gave.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It from in the eighties, Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
A d gave it a way because they knew you
were going to.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
And it destroyed careers of the like Marion Barry. I
don't know if you knew of him, but he was.
I mean, it was. And that's what I want to
say is look at the history. You know you have
people in all I mean, I hate to say it,
crack often had a negative type associated with lower economic classes,
(20:02):
but that's not true, right. It definitely permeated other social
classes and once people got addicted, I mean it had
like vice gripts on them. That may be an extreme example.
And what I've seen tragically through my career is, of
course there's people that get addicted, and I mean the
(20:24):
entryway to addiction is so complex, and I've seen so
many people after surgery, after a bad car accident, like
you know, unfortunately, I see the terrible outcomes of it.
But you know, we don't know the history. And so
when I see sort of all comers, as I say,
(20:45):
it's you know, I love my job because of the
different stories. I hate to say it that bring people there,
but it like really humanizes the cases. But at the
same time it's scary. It does not matter if you
come from a suburb, you know, the city, inner city,
outer city. It does not matter the country because at
the same time, once you know, once you're getting a
(21:07):
hold on a drug or whatever, and I mean it
doesn't even to be the drug you'd think it is, right,
I mean, oxy coda and tablets are the most counterfitted
out there. Right, they say, I'm selling you OxyS and
ends up being fentanyl. Come on, you know, And that's
I think when I showed my young daughter those pictures
(21:28):
and said, why did you know? Because she got candy
from someone. I said, you're not supposed to eat candy
from someone. She just didn't realize how similar things were
and I showed her. And you know, kids trade things
at lunch all the time, even if you're not supposed to.
But you know, now we're seeing it. I mean, I say, kids,
(21:48):
and my daughter's going to be twelve, but you know,
time flies. Eighteen's not that far away and then they're adults, right,
But we know that that's not how the brain matures.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
The other thing scary by the time she gets to
college is there's going to be something to worry about.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You know. But it is a beautiful season. It is
the holidays. Everybody wants to be together and have a
great time and absolutely be with the people that you love.
But you know, doctor Praya, again, I appreciate you coming
on here and saying, Okay, here's the deal between now
and New Year's you gotta be aware, right.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And we got to stay alive, right. We want to
enjoy the season, not not suffer during it, and not
you know, bring sadness to families. We want to thrive
and so that really is what this is about. And
it's been in our news a lot, but I really
want everyone to say, you know, I mean, you don't
(22:52):
even know what town state your drugs are coming from, right,
like how far away? So you really need to just
you know again, stair, steer clear and drive safe like
call an uber, call your parents, call someone, anybody will
come and get you. Not to drunk drive as well.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And you know, I'm gonna say it like this. I
saw this hilarious woman online and she was talking about
Thanksgiving and she said, look, don't bring anybody new. If
you've only been dating the week, don't bring that person.
Don't put them in all the pictures because we're just
gonna have to cut them out. Don't try a new recipe,
not a thank Oh that's right, Okay, I'm gonna give
you the same advice with a little twist. Don't buy
(23:38):
something from somebody you've never bought before from. Don't try
a drug you've never tried before. Don't get cute now,
don't do it if you don't know the person, you
don't trust the person, if you've never done the drug,
it's gonna kill you.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I think that's the safe assumption that it only takes once.
And I've seen that more often than not and had
to deliver that news to parents on the phone who
don't believe my diagnoses at autopsy, and that's heartbreaking because.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
It's all heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
There is no there's no history, and you have to
be the one to deliver that news. It's it's you know,
there's any time you have to talk to a family
and hear someone you know burst out with a shrieking cry,
that's really you know, as a mom, it tears you apart.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
And you know that's another thing. If you you know,
were that four point oh student you were talking about
in high school. You didn't do drugs in high school.
Those parents are going to sit there forever and go, wow,
why would he do that? Why would he take that?
Why would he smoke that when he's never done it before?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Exactly? That's the that's you know, make it a season
of nice, you know, happy memory is not not sad one.
So I hope this, you know, may at least brings
pause to people who listen and you know, can be
safe out there.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Nope, it's timely and appreciate it. Thank you, doctor, Banerjie.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yes, good ye.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
We will see you next Monday with pathology with doctor Priya.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
All right, take care until next time.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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