August 6, 2025 • 34 mins
Jared Bradley is the president of M-Vac Systems, a cutting-edge forensic DNA collection company helping law enforcement solve cold cases once thought unsolvable. A military veteran and host of the podcast All Things Crime, Jared is a global leader in touch DNA recovery. He has worked with investigators around the world to identify suspects, exonerate the innocent, and bring long-awaited closure to victim families.
Learn more: M-Vac Systems
Podcast: All Things Crime
In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator Sheryl McCollum is joined by forensic innovator Jared Bradley to explore the newly solved cold case of Kathy Halle, a 19-year-old murdered in 1979. Her case remained unsolved for 45 years—until DNA recovered using the M-Vac system identified suspected serial offender Bruce Lindahl as the killer. Sheryl and Jared unpack the investigation, the science behind M-Vac, and how support from the nonprofit Season of Justice helped bring long-overdue answers.
Highlights:
- (0:00) Sheryl opens the episode with Kathy Halle’s story and introduces Jared Bradley
- (3:00) Kathy Halle disappears: a misplaced car, a rooftop purse, and early red flags
- (9:00) Quiet persistence: decades of case reviews, missed connections, and evolving DNA science
- (10:30) Cutting-edge DNA recovery leads to a 1-in-9.4-trillion match
- (12:45) Bruce Lindahl: a suspected serial predator whose violent end left unanswered questions
- (16:15) The psychology of predators: what makes serial offenders so hard to catch
- (18:45) M-Vac on the map: solving Krystal Beslanowitch’s murder with DNA from river rocks
- (23:00) “Every case. Every tool. Every time.”
- (25:30) Gang violence, shared clothing, and how M-Vac cut through the DNA mix
- (28:15) Clearing Chris Tapp: how M-Vac helped free a wrongfully convicted man
- (31:00) From burgers to crime scenes: M-Vac’s surprising origin story
- (33:15) Final reflections on persistence, partnership, and solving the unsolvable
- (33:30) “The M-Vac can vacuum 186 times more than a swab can.” – Jared Bradley
If you’re enjoying Zone 7, please consider leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts—it helps others discover the show and supports our mission to share these stories.
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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnline, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
- Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
In twenty twenty four. Kathy Holly's case had been cold
for forty five years. Kathy was just nineteen years old
when her body was discovered in the Fox River. Police
at the time collected and saved her clothing from nineteen
(00:31):
seventy nine. Now just two years later, in nineteen eighty one,
police found a man dead in an apartment. It looked
like he accidentally slashed the major artery in his own leg.
How are these cases connected. Well, tonight we have my
(00:53):
friend Jared Bradley. Jared is the president of the VAT.
Now y'all have heard me talk about this DNA collection
system often own Zone seven. Well, Jared is here tonight
and he's not only the president of the INVAT system,
he's also a podcaster all Things Crime. Jared Bradley, Welcome
(01:20):
to Zone seven, Cheryl Mack.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It is an absolute honor, I.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Tell you what. This is overdue, honey, because you have
been involved in solving case after case after case after case,
not just cold but frozen cases.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, I'm not sure many detectives will ever say cases
are completely frozen, but you know, they just investigators to
me are some of the most amazing people on the planet,
including yourself, Cheryl. And I know you guys don't ever
like to take credit for what you do, but the
(02:01):
fact that you will never give up on a victim
or a case until it's actually solved, to me is
one of the just absolute most awesomest things I've ever
witnessed in my life.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well, let me tell you when I introduce you by saying,
my friend, I want people to understand you show up.
You show up at times where it's not expected, it's
not required, but it is so appreciated. Even when I
was inducted into the Hall of Fame, you showed up,
(02:37):
You were there. You will never know what that meant
to me. And you have been so good to my children.
You have been inclusive and friendly and kind and generous.
You showed up in Atlanta with a free en vat
and said let's do some testing. I mean, it's beyond generosity,
(02:59):
it is beyond friendship. So I appreciate you on every level.
So Jared, take us to March twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine,
when Kathy Holly leaves her apartment to go pick her
sister up from work in downtown Aurora, Illinois.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, it's actually a small city just north of there
called North Aroar, And at the time the town was
I think about forty five or fifty five hundred people.
It's a really small town. And back in nineteen seventy nine,
those of us that were around back then, you know,
that was just a time that you just didn't really
(03:37):
worry about about crime a whole lot. And she, her roommate, said,
she just grabbed her coat and ran out the door
to go pick up her sister, and she just never
showed up. And so the police were called about ten
o'clock and to say that she was missing, that Kathy,
(04:01):
you know, hadn't come home and she hadn't been there
to pick up her sister, which was really odd for her.
She was your typical nineteen year old that was extremely reliable.
She was just a happy, go lucky, you know, just
mid western girl that you know, had a boyfriend, had
(04:23):
all sorts of dreams. Rare for her to actually do
something like this. So the police, you know, typical of
most teenagers, they're like, well, you know, who knows what
she's doing, So we'll give it a little time. And
at around three am, some of her neighbors and family
(04:44):
found her car that was normally it was parked on
the west side of her apartment complex, and they found
it on the far east side, so as far away
from her apartment as the car could get. And that
was at three am, so basically five hours later. And
(05:05):
then it became especially once the police started going through
a car, they found a pool of blood in the
back seat, and so that's when it turned into a
missing person's investigation. It was all hands on deck, but
again this is a really small community. They have like
eight officers, so they had to bring in some of
(05:27):
the Illinois State Patrol. But they were looking for pretty
steady for the three weeks until a fisherman, a little
twelve year old boy and his father found her in
the Fox River.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So her nineteen seventy two Dodge Charger had been moved.
It had been driven by somebody on the opposite side
of the complaint.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Right, and that's pretty much what triggered the actual robust search.
And somebody also found her purse on top of the
apartment complex, so obviously somebody had probably gone through it
and the car had been ransacked as well, so they
(06:16):
had gone through the car and then thrown her purse
up on top of the building.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Now did law enforcement think that was the same person,
or do they think once the car was abandoned it
was ransacked by another group.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I'm not sure they really thought it was multiple assailants.
I think they were just kind of looking for whoever
had moved the car.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So did they have any connection with anybody that had
been stalking her, bothering her, threatening her, anybody unusual in
such a small town.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
As far as I know, they didn't. There had been
some people that some other cases that had been in
the area. There was some nearby town that had had
some similar tragedies, and so they thought maybe those were connected.
But remember back in nineteen seventy nine, the forensics just
(07:13):
wasn't nearly as good, so that late at night there
weren't any eyewitnesses. There was a typical hangout place that
was kind of a shopping center, which is actually where
her sister worked, and so a lot of teenagers and
you know, people in their early twenties would hang out there.
(07:33):
So of course the police interviewed a lot of those folks,
but obviously nobody's going to fess up to it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So we have the cause of death. This strangulation, and
in nineteen seventy nine, even though you're saying there were
some other cases and surrounding jurisdictions, in seventy nine, law
enforcement didn't talk to each other. There weren't task forces
that were saying, hey, do you have any similar transactions?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I mean, that just wasn't right. It was interesting that
the detective that I talked to said that early in
like twenty twenty, he actually put out, I can't I
don't know what exactly you call it, but it's basically
a it's not an APB. It's just kind of a
notification to other agencies saying, hey, this is kind of
(08:23):
what our case, like, the strangulation as long as well
as the sexual assault is anybody have a case similar
that's in your area. And there were some cases that
kind of popped from that in nearby, like my cap.
I guess okay.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So he just said, hey, this is exactly what we have.
If you have anything similar, okay. That's pretty good police work.
To follow up that many years.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Later, you know, they went and reviewed the case at least,
you know, once a decade they'd look at it, you know,
when they'd hear about something new. Some kind of a
new technique, a possibility of you know, especially in the
eighties that's when DNA started coming around. And so they
had swabbed the clothing a number of times, especially the underwear,
(09:16):
but didn't get anything as far as a good hit.
And it wasn't until around twenty twenty when they finally
heard about the end back and they thought if there
was any touch DNA, especially on her panties or on
possibly you know, if she had been drug from her
(09:39):
car down to the river, either by her shoes or
her pant legs, or by you know, grab her by
the armpit kind of thing, you know, carry and just
kind of dragged legs. That's pretty common. Ultimately they'd learned
about the end back, they realized how expensive it was,
and that's when they contacted Season of Justice, and Season
(10:02):
of Justice helped them pay for it, and so they
sent all the articles down to a lab in Florida
and then yeah, they got the results did back and
from her panties they actually got a DNA profile that
was one in nine point four trillion.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
And I'll tell you, Season of Justice, is that not
an incredible program?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, those guys are amazing. I mean just absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Amazing, unbelievable. Yep, we've submitted cases to them as well
with great results. So again, generosity is just unbelievable. After
you get the profile on Kathy's case, what happens next?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I think they had a codis hit and it linked
to a guy named Bruce Lindell. And he was a well,
a suspected serial killer and rapist that was working in
the area in the seventies and eighties, and he's suspected
to be tied to as many as nine rapes and
(11:10):
twelve murders and just a kind of a mechanic type
of a guy. He would have all sorts of different
techniques that he would use in some of his attacks. Basically,
sometimes he would disable a victim's car and then as
(11:33):
they were trying to get us started, he would just
happen to show up and then he would take advantage
of them as he was trying to fix their car,
or sometimes he would disable his own, but either way,
as a mechanic, he would know how to do all
that kind of stuff. So, in fact, the case that
was in a nearby town from North Aurora, one of
(11:56):
the victims that they know that he was tied to
he had actually angled the victim with a rubber hose
from from her car, So that was kind of his
m O. And it all kind of fit with Kathy's case,
and so that's kind of how they tied it to him.
Is even in conjunction with that DNA profile.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So I'm sure people have figured it out by now.
But that's who was dead in the apartment that had
slashed his own thigh.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, he's he had He had actually attacked a young man.
He had stabbed a young victim that he had just met.
But in the process of trying to stab that victim,
he actually sliced his own moral artery and then ended
up bleeding out. So fitting in to just a I
(12:51):
can't even say it on your show, and I don't
want to. I don't want to offend anybody.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
I understand, but I mean, what wicked just twist that here.
Now you have this guy dead in this apartment, turns
out to be a serial killer with another victim there
whose male. But now he's connected to all these other
victims from nineteen seventy to nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, it's scary when these kind of people, you know,
it's just kind of like the Long Island serial killer.
You know, nobody, nobody suspected that guy, But turns out
he was He was pretty active, and he was pretty demented,
and even.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
In such a small town, you would think that his
name would have popped up or somebody would have suspected
him before his own demise.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well, Cheryl, you've studied enough of these cases that you
know that the really good ones, that Jeffrey Dahmer types,
these guys, they're hiding in plain sight. And you know,
on when you first meet him, a lot of times
you just you look at him and you're like, hey,
this is just a normal dude. But you know it's, uh,
(14:06):
once the once the sun goes down, maybe I don't know,
maybe it's one of the moon comes out and the
wolverine type or the weir wolf comes out of him.
But I don't know, it's there were a lot of
people that were really surprised. I mean, and I've heard
that over and over and over.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You mentioned, of course obviously DNA and now ancestry. I
met with one of the doctors at our largest hospital
in Atlanta, Grady, and he came by just to see
what our process was for sexual assault kids and he said, well,
what all are you saving? And I said, I'm saving everything.
(14:50):
And the reason I'm saving everything is I never saw
DNA coming. I never saw ancestry coming, So I sure,
lord don't know what's coming down next, but I'm saving
it because whatever is next, I'm going to have that evidence.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
That's smart all all good investigators, do you know, it's
just a little space in the evidence.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Room, right, just a little space. Yep. So you've worked
tons of cases, and I know you've gotten DNA profiles
off rocks and jump ropes and clothing. Tell us some
of the most unusual results that you've gotten off what
type of items?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Cinder blocks and bricks. I know, in South Carolina during
the summer of you know, the Peaceful Summer or whatever
they called that, with all the riots going on, there
was an agency in South Carolina that told their deputies
that if anybody gets hit with a brick or a
rock or anything, then put your gloves on and collect it.
(15:55):
And they collected a brick that had hit an officer
and back to that and got a full profile of
some guy out of Seattle. So you know, that's that
was a cool case. And then I'd just see one
of the very first cases that really put the m
back on the map. It was one of the first
(16:15):
ones that was solved that kind of made even international
news was the Crystal Bislanowitch case. A lot of people
have talked about that because it's it's so amazing. You know,
a river rock in Utah, at least the Provo River,
which is kind of if you if you know anything
(16:37):
about Utah on the Wasatch Front, it's that. That's the
really tall, rocky mountains that are there. Right behind that,
there's a big ski resort town called Park City, and
the pro the Provo River kind of winds down from
the Park City area down into the Hebrew Valley and
absolute pristine, beautiful river. Anybody loves fly fishing. That is
(17:01):
a great river. Well, the town on the west side
of the river is called Midway, incredible little mountaintown, little
resort town. I think they have a murder about every
five years maybe. And one morning a farmer and his
(17:22):
son were headed out to go feed the cows, and
they looked over at this pristine river and they saw
a body there, and so they called the Washatch County Sheriff,
and the responding officer was a gentleman named Todd Bonner,
and he'd been with the force about three years, had
(17:44):
investigated some narcotics and things like that, but had never
done a homicide. So they brought in a bunch of
help from Salt Lake City PD and some others and
they started investigating this case. So, as a CSI, Cheryl,
here's what they had. Granite rocks that were imagine, jeez,
(18:05):
I don't know the size of a small tissue box,
so about ten pounds, so big enough that they could
cause a lot of damage, but small enough you could
grip it with one hand, so I hope you can
visualize that.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
They these two rocks in particular were obviously had caused
the majority of the damage and been used to bludgeon
the victim Crystal. And then there were other rocks that
had a bunch of blood on them. And then one
rock is about forty pounds that was actually he had
(18:41):
dropped on her head to finish her off, and so
extremely brutal crime they had. So they had those rocks,
her body which was just completely no clothes or anything,
and then about six feet away, resting on a kind
of a flat rock that was just a little little
(19:04):
further up from the river, there was a pair of
folded socks sitting on that on that rock, and that's
all they had to go on. So deputies combed the area.
They tried to interview what I think one hundred and
(19:26):
fifty people, anybody that was even remotely close to the
to the crime scene at the time. They interviewed anybody
that they could find. They combed miles and miles of
highway to try to find maybe any discarded clothing, but
basically didn't have anything. So that case went cold nineteen
(19:50):
ninety five. All that evidence sat in the evidence locker
for basically eighteen years. They pulled it out occasionally once
they found out, you know, DNA was advancing at the time,
from the mid nineties to the two thousand's, you know,
that's when they first started getting into touch DNA, So
they thought, well, maybe they could get try to swab
(20:13):
those granite rocks and try to get some of the
touch DNA from where obviously he had ripped it with
his hand and couldn't get much of anything. They'd get
little blips, but nothing really that would show up that
would be you know, approbative basically. And then in around
twenty thirteen, they learned about the mback and that's when
(20:38):
we had first pivoted into the forensics and a lab
called Sorens and Forensics in Salt Lake City had purchased
the first one and they started contacting all of these
agencies around and saying, hey, we got this new DNA
collection tool, let's try it on some of these cases
that you know they failed and basically everything else. So
(21:02):
Bristol's case was one of the first ones, and they
collected twenty one nanograms of DNA material. So anybody that's
listening that really understands DNA, you need about a half
a nanogram of cells basically to create a full profile.
(21:23):
And they collected twenty one nanograms, unbelievable, forty two times
more than what they needed. And this was collected off
of the granite rocks, so pretty amazing. They they then
loaded uploaded that profile and a codis and it immediately
hit Joseph Simpson was his name, and he had been
(21:44):
out of prison only about eight months when he killed Crystal.
He'd been serving for second degree murder. He'd been served
about ten years and gets out. He's driving limos for
the ski resorts up there. I don't know what their
vetting process was back then, but they probably need to
(22:05):
enhance that a little bit. But yeah, then, so he
knew all these fishing spots and all the ski resorts
and everything, and he knew right alongside the Provo River.
He knew exactly where a good park parking spot was,
and that's where they were doing it. I mean, Crystal,
it's it's really sad. If you see Crystal's high school
(22:27):
last her last high school I think was her junior year.
Her high school picture, she was, you know, just like
Kathy's picture in you know, just a just an all American,
sweet little girl. But then she got hooked up with
the wrong guy. But it took him eighteen years and
(22:48):
they finally were able to solve it. And that was
really one of the very first m back cases that
that was really hit, you know, went big with the news.
And I'll tell you, every time I do a presentation
on the MBAC, I stole this saying from you, Cheryl,
So I have to give you full credit, and I
(23:08):
actually do every time I talk about it. But it's
what you're saying every case, every tool, every time.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Oh absolutely no doubt about it. You should never say, hey,
we could do this, but we'll wait, We'll try something
else first. No, every tool on every case, every time period.
For you. You have now worked thousands of cases. Are
(23:37):
there any that still stick with you because you solved
them or because y'all have not.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
There was one case in particular in Salt Lake that
it was a gang member that just kind of walked
up and shot a rival gang member and then as
he was running away, he was wearing a hoodie and
he threw the weapon into a ditch and then peeled
(24:04):
off this sweatshirt and threw that into a ditch. And
they recovered it the next day, and they tried swabbing
pretty much everywhere and they were just getting like just
kind of weird mixtures. And then they decided to try
the imback on it, and so we actually took a
system up there and and helped them kind of learn
(24:26):
how to how to use it. And then we were
just kind of standing there and helping them, you know,
make sure they used it correctly, and they, you know,
they got him. And that was a that was a
pretty cool case because you know, as it's gang gang related,
stuff is really difficult because there's it's everything's community. You know,
(24:48):
they share everything, and so they'll share weapons, they'll share clothing,
and so it's it's it's difficult to just get one
particular or even just a couple of profiles off of
something because there's such what you know, what they call
a mixture. And that was that was really early on,
you know, twenty twelve or twenty thirteen, somewhere around there,
(25:11):
when we first pivoted into forensics. And yeah, that's always
made an impression on me, just because I was able
to actually see the m BACK being used on actual evidence.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Well, I know the first time I was ever aware
of y'all, and I heard you speak on a case
that was forty years old, and I was just amazed
when you started talking about the different types of things
that you could get DNA off of. It was like
this whole new world opened up for us, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, there's not very many surface types that the m
BACK can't I can't get DNA from. And it's it's
it's awesome because even if they do prior methods like
swabbing or even cuttings, it typically leaves behind a significant
(26:11):
amount of DNA, so the MBAT can actually come back
behind these other methods and still collect from the exact
same spot and still get magnitudes more. You know, when
the FBI tested it, they showed that it was up
to sixty six times more than what the swab would
(26:32):
originally collect, So, you know, which is sixty six hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
And one thing I love about forensics in any case,
it doesn't have a dog in the fight. So the
MBAT was also used in twenty nineteen to clear a
wrongly convicted man.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
He was wrongfully convicted and in fact, I kind of
hinted at that case earlier about the the suspect who
had actually killed Angie Dodge was the victim's name. They
were going to convict somebody, and they ended up convicting
Chris Tap Twenty years later they figured out and amazingly,
(27:15):
to her credit, Angie Dodge's mom, she just wouldn't let
it go, and she kept visiting Chris in prison, asking
him who helped him because there were multiple DNA profiles
on her or I'm sorry, there was one DNA profile
and it didn't match Chris. She finally insisted that the
(27:37):
Idaho Falls police used the mback on Angie's clothing, that
she was wearing when she was murdered, and find another
you know, find Chris Taps DNA somewhere on there. And
because supposedly he wasn't the one that had raped her,
but supposedly he was the one that was holding her down,
(28:00):
so his DNA would have been on her clothing somewhere.
So when they used the m back and our friend
Francine Bardol was actually the one that did it, m
backed her sweats t shirt and even her the teddy
bear that the killer had used to kind of muffle
Angie's screams and just really thoroughly impact him. Found lots
(28:27):
of DNA and it all matched one person and none
of it was Chris Tap And so based on that,
and plus the fact that he had already served twenty years,
they let him out. Of course, then that basically reopened
the case. So now they have to find out who's
DNA profile that actually and so then they turned to
(28:50):
the big basically the genetic genealogy investigative technique, and that's
when they tracked this guy down in in the Boise area.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Remarkable, I mean, again, the way the dots are being
connected with technology and old fashioned police work, the right
items being collected legally and scientifically. Look what is leading
to decades later.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, it's so amazing, you know, every single step in
the investigative process. And again, Cheryl, just watching folks like
you work, knowing that, like you said, you may not
have what you need right now to solve it. But
by collecting everything and collecting it properly, you know, making
(29:39):
sure that you're wearing the protective clothing and the mask
and everything. Someday then a new technology will come around
and who could have known that, you know, this ancestry
would eventually lead to solving the Golden State Killer. And
then from there thousands of ca have't been solved.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
And here's what was really wicked. The MVAT was never
invented for crime solvent. Tell everybody what your dad.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Did, well, he was a microbiologist. Back in nineteen ninety three,
there was an E Coli outbreak. Some undercooked hamburgers still
had E. Coli in him, and so he recognized that there,
you know, that's a problem, and so basically figured out
that the upfront collection was was the primary problem. Figured
(30:32):
out how to how to get more aggressive with it,
you know, getting down on the little nooks and crannies
where the E. Colei might be might be hiding. And
so that's kind of how the impact was invented. I
ran into a college buddy and he was I'd gotten
into the military, but he got into the FBI, and
I was explaining the MBAC to him in the context
(30:53):
of collecting E. Coli and he was like, man, that
would have been amazing on some of my crime scenes.
On occasion, the light bulb goes off, and we thought, well,
let's let's go give it a try, and so we
took it to a lab and and when they came
back and after testing it for us, they said, we've
never seen recoveries like this. This is absolutely amazing. And
(31:15):
they said, by the way, we're buying that machine. So
they had enough insight to recognize it as a is
it a good tool that could be used especially on
cold cases. And so they started started reaching out to
agencies like Salt Lake PD and you know the areas
even down as far as Arizona in place like that,
(31:37):
and saying, hey, if you have evidence that we haven't
got a good profile from, let's resubmit it and try
this new tool on it. So, yeah, it's solved. Solved
some pretty cool cases.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I'll tell you, it is a different world. It's a
whole new ball game.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Honestly, Cheryl, I don't know how anybody could get away
with meeting a heinous crime nowadays.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well they got to work a whole lot harder, I
tell you that, and most of them are not going
to be able to do it. Look at Coburger. He
allegedly studied all these different serial killers, and look at
the mistakes he made, and one of them was leaving
behind DNA. Jared, I cannot thank you enough for all
that you do for any agency that needs you. And
(32:25):
if y'all follow him on social media, you see that
he is at different police departments in different states and
different countries all the time. He will literally load up
that MBAT and come and help you and join in
the investigation. So I appreciate you. I know what you've
(32:45):
done in Georgia. I know what you've done for some
of our cold cases at the institute across the country.
I mean, you've gone to North Carolina for me, You've
gone to Florida obviously Georgia. You've gone to different states,
and you know worked some cases. Is that we didn't
have anything without you, so thank you so much, Jared.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Well, honestly, working with folks like you, you know, Prime
and SEE investigators, detectives, DNA analysts, you just consummate professionals.
It's I've done a lot of things in my life,
and I'll tell you there's nothing it's as rewarding as
getting a phone call from somebody like Cheryl Mack and
(33:30):
you would not believe what happened. And to me, that's
that makes everything worth it.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And I love to make those phone calls, Sugar, y'all.
I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I
always do with a quote, the m VAT can vacuum
one hundred and eighty six times more than a swam
cap Jared Bradley, President of the MVAT System. I'm Cheryl McCollum,
(34:02):
and this is Zone seven. HM.
In twenty twenty four. Kathy Holly's case had been cold
for forty five years. Kathy was just nineteen years old
when her body was discovered in the Fox River. Police
at the time collected and saved her clothing from nineteen
(00:31):
seventy nine. Now just two years later, in nineteen eighty one,
police found a man dead in an apartment. It looked
like he accidentally slashed the major artery in his own leg.
How are these cases connected. Well, tonight we have my
(00:53):
friend Jared Bradley. Jared is the president of the VAT.
Now y'all have heard me talk about this DNA collection
system often own Zone seven. Well, Jared is here tonight
and he's not only the president of the INVAT system,
he's also a podcaster all Things Crime. Jared Bradley, Welcome
(01:20):
to Zone seven, Cheryl Mack.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It is an absolute honor, I.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Tell you what. This is overdue, honey, because you have
been involved in solving case after case after case after case,
not just cold but frozen cases.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, I'm not sure many detectives will ever say cases
are completely frozen, but you know, they just investigators to
me are some of the most amazing people on the planet,
including yourself, Cheryl. And I know you guys don't ever
like to take credit for what you do, but the
(02:01):
fact that you will never give up on a victim
or a case until it's actually solved, to me is
one of the just absolute most awesomest things I've ever
witnessed in my life.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well, let me tell you when I introduce you by saying,
my friend, I want people to understand you show up.
You show up at times where it's not expected, it's
not required, but it is so appreciated. Even when I
was inducted into the Hall of Fame, you showed up,
(02:37):
You were there. You will never know what that meant
to me. And you have been so good to my children.
You have been inclusive and friendly and kind and generous.
You showed up in Atlanta with a free en vat
and said let's do some testing. I mean, it's beyond generosity,
(02:59):
it is beyond friendship. So I appreciate you on every level.
So Jared, take us to March twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine,
when Kathy Holly leaves her apartment to go pick her
sister up from work in downtown Aurora, Illinois.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, it's actually a small city just north of there
called North Aroar, And at the time the town was
I think about forty five or fifty five hundred people.
It's a really small town. And back in nineteen seventy nine,
those of us that were around back then, you know,
that was just a time that you just didn't really
(03:37):
worry about about crime a whole lot. And she, her roommate, said,
she just grabbed her coat and ran out the door
to go pick up her sister, and she just never
showed up. And so the police were called about ten
o'clock and to say that she was missing, that Kathy,
(04:01):
you know, hadn't come home and she hadn't been there
to pick up her sister, which was really odd for her.
She was your typical nineteen year old that was extremely reliable.
She was just a happy, go lucky, you know, just
mid western girl that you know, had a boyfriend, had
(04:23):
all sorts of dreams. Rare for her to actually do
something like this. So the police, you know, typical of
most teenagers, they're like, well, you know, who knows what
she's doing, So we'll give it a little time. And
at around three am, some of her neighbors and family
(04:44):
found her car that was normally it was parked on
the west side of her apartment complex, and they found
it on the far east side, so as far away
from her apartment as the car could get. And that
was at three am, so basically five hours later. And
(05:05):
then it became especially once the police started going through
a car, they found a pool of blood in the
back seat, and so that's when it turned into a
missing person's investigation. It was all hands on deck, but
again this is a really small community. They have like
eight officers, so they had to bring in some of
(05:27):
the Illinois State Patrol. But they were looking for pretty
steady for the three weeks until a fisherman, a little
twelve year old boy and his father found her in
the Fox River.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So her nineteen seventy two Dodge Charger had been moved.
It had been driven by somebody on the opposite side
of the complaint.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Right, and that's pretty much what triggered the actual robust search.
And somebody also found her purse on top of the
apartment complex, so obviously somebody had probably gone through it
and the car had been ransacked as well, so they
(06:16):
had gone through the car and then thrown her purse
up on top of the building.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Now did law enforcement think that was the same person,
or do they think once the car was abandoned it
was ransacked by another group.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I'm not sure they really thought it was multiple assailants.
I think they were just kind of looking for whoever
had moved the car.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So did they have any connection with anybody that had
been stalking her, bothering her, threatening her, anybody unusual in
such a small town.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
As far as I know, they didn't. There had been
some people that some other cases that had been in
the area. There was some nearby town that had had
some similar tragedies, and so they thought maybe those were connected.
But remember back in nineteen seventy nine, the forensics just
(07:13):
wasn't nearly as good, so that late at night there
weren't any eyewitnesses. There was a typical hangout place that
was kind of a shopping center, which is actually where
her sister worked, and so a lot of teenagers and
you know, people in their early twenties would hang out there.
(07:33):
So of course the police interviewed a lot of those folks,
but obviously nobody's going to fess up to it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So we have the cause of death. This strangulation, and
in nineteen seventy nine, even though you're saying there were
some other cases and surrounding jurisdictions, in seventy nine, law
enforcement didn't talk to each other. There weren't task forces
that were saying, hey, do you have any similar transactions?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I mean, that just wasn't right. It was interesting that
the detective that I talked to said that early in
like twenty twenty, he actually put out, I can't I
don't know what exactly you call it, but it's basically
a it's not an APB. It's just kind of a
notification to other agencies saying, hey, this is kind of
(08:23):
what our case, like, the strangulation as long as well
as the sexual assault is anybody have a case similar
that's in your area. And there were some cases that
kind of popped from that in nearby, like my cap.
I guess okay.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So he just said, hey, this is exactly what we have.
If you have anything similar, okay. That's pretty good police work.
To follow up that many years.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Later, you know, they went and reviewed the case at least,
you know, once a decade they'd look at it, you know,
when they'd hear about something new. Some kind of a
new technique, a possibility of you know, especially in the
eighties that's when DNA started coming around. And so they
had swabbed the clothing a number of times, especially the underwear,
(09:16):
but didn't get anything as far as a good hit.
And it wasn't until around twenty twenty when they finally
heard about the end back and they thought if there
was any touch DNA, especially on her panties or on
possibly you know, if she had been drug from her
(09:39):
car down to the river, either by her shoes or
her pant legs, or by you know, grab her by
the armpit kind of thing, you know, carry and just
kind of dragged legs. That's pretty common. Ultimately they'd learned
about the end back, they realized how expensive it was,
and that's when they contacted Season of Justice, and Season
(10:02):
of Justice helped them pay for it, and so they
sent all the articles down to a lab in Florida
and then yeah, they got the results did back and
from her panties they actually got a DNA profile that
was one in nine point four trillion.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
And I'll tell you, Season of Justice, is that not
an incredible program?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, those guys are amazing. I mean just absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Amazing, unbelievable. Yep, we've submitted cases to them as well
with great results. So again, generosity is just unbelievable. After
you get the profile on Kathy's case, what happens next?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I think they had a codis hit and it linked
to a guy named Bruce Lindell. And he was a well,
a suspected serial killer and rapist that was working in
the area in the seventies and eighties, and he's suspected
to be tied to as many as nine rapes and
(11:10):
twelve murders and just a kind of a mechanic type
of a guy. He would have all sorts of different
techniques that he would use in some of his attacks. Basically,
sometimes he would disable a victim's car and then as
(11:33):
they were trying to get us started, he would just
happen to show up and then he would take advantage
of them as he was trying to fix their car,
or sometimes he would disable his own, but either way,
as a mechanic, he would know how to do all
that kind of stuff. So, in fact, the case that
was in a nearby town from North Aurora, one of
(11:56):
the victims that they know that he was tied to
he had actually angled the victim with a rubber hose
from from her car, So that was kind of his
m O. And it all kind of fit with Kathy's case,
and so that's kind of how they tied it to him.
Is even in conjunction with that DNA profile.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So I'm sure people have figured it out by now.
But that's who was dead in the apartment that had
slashed his own thigh.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, he's he had He had actually attacked a young man.
He had stabbed a young victim that he had just met.
But in the process of trying to stab that victim,
he actually sliced his own moral artery and then ended
up bleeding out. So fitting in to just a I
(12:51):
can't even say it on your show, and I don't
want to. I don't want to offend anybody.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
I understand, but I mean, what wicked just twist that here.
Now you have this guy dead in this apartment, turns
out to be a serial killer with another victim there
whose male. But now he's connected to all these other
victims from nineteen seventy to nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, it's scary when these kind of people, you know,
it's just kind of like the Long Island serial killer.
You know, nobody, nobody suspected that guy, But turns out
he was He was pretty active, and he was pretty demented,
and even.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
In such a small town, you would think that his
name would have popped up or somebody would have suspected
him before his own demise.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well, Cheryl, you've studied enough of these cases that you
know that the really good ones, that Jeffrey Dahmer types,
these guys, they're hiding in plain sight. And you know,
on when you first meet him, a lot of times
you just you look at him and you're like, hey,
this is just a normal dude. But you know it's, uh,
(14:06):
once the once the sun goes down, maybe I don't know,
maybe it's one of the moon comes out and the
wolverine type or the weir wolf comes out of him.
But I don't know, it's there were a lot of
people that were really surprised. I mean, and I've heard
that over and over and over.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You mentioned, of course obviously DNA and now ancestry. I
met with one of the doctors at our largest hospital
in Atlanta, Grady, and he came by just to see
what our process was for sexual assault kids and he said, well,
what all are you saving? And I said, I'm saving everything.
(14:50):
And the reason I'm saving everything is I never saw
DNA coming. I never saw ancestry coming, So I sure,
lord don't know what's coming down next, but I'm saving
it because whatever is next, I'm going to have that evidence.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
That's smart all all good investigators, do you know, it's
just a little space in the evidence.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Room, right, just a little space. Yep. So you've worked
tons of cases, and I know you've gotten DNA profiles
off rocks and jump ropes and clothing. Tell us some
of the most unusual results that you've gotten off what
type of items?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Cinder blocks and bricks. I know, in South Carolina during
the summer of you know, the Peaceful Summer or whatever
they called that, with all the riots going on, there
was an agency in South Carolina that told their deputies
that if anybody gets hit with a brick or a
rock or anything, then put your gloves on and collect it.
(15:55):
And they collected a brick that had hit an officer
and back to that and got a full profile of
some guy out of Seattle. So you know, that's that
was a cool case. And then I'd just see one
of the very first cases that really put the m
back on the map. It was one of the first
(16:15):
ones that was solved that kind of made even international
news was the Crystal Bislanowitch case. A lot of people
have talked about that because it's it's so amazing. You know,
a river rock in Utah, at least the Provo River,
which is kind of if you if you know anything
(16:37):
about Utah on the Wasatch Front, it's that. That's the
really tall, rocky mountains that are there. Right behind that,
there's a big ski resort town called Park City, and
the pro the Provo River kind of winds down from
the Park City area down into the Hebrew Valley and
absolute pristine, beautiful river. Anybody loves fly fishing. That is
(17:01):
a great river. Well, the town on the west side
of the river is called Midway, incredible little mountaintown, little
resort town. I think they have a murder about every
five years maybe. And one morning a farmer and his
(17:22):
son were headed out to go feed the cows, and
they looked over at this pristine river and they saw
a body there, and so they called the Washatch County Sheriff,
and the responding officer was a gentleman named Todd Bonner,
and he'd been with the force about three years, had
(17:44):
investigated some narcotics and things like that, but had never
done a homicide. So they brought in a bunch of
help from Salt Lake City PD and some others and
they started investigating this case. So, as a CSI, Cheryl,
here's what they had. Granite rocks that were imagine, jeez,
(18:05):
I don't know the size of a small tissue box,
so about ten pounds, so big enough that they could
cause a lot of damage, but small enough you could
grip it with one hand, so I hope you can
visualize that.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
They these two rocks in particular were obviously had caused
the majority of the damage and been used to bludgeon
the victim Crystal. And then there were other rocks that
had a bunch of blood on them. And then one
rock is about forty pounds that was actually he had
(18:41):
dropped on her head to finish her off, and so
extremely brutal crime they had. So they had those rocks,
her body which was just completely no clothes or anything,
and then about six feet away, resting on a kind
of a flat rock that was just a little little
(19:04):
further up from the river, there was a pair of
folded socks sitting on that on that rock, and that's
all they had to go on. So deputies combed the area.
They tried to interview what I think one hundred and
(19:26):
fifty people, anybody that was even remotely close to the
to the crime scene at the time. They interviewed anybody
that they could find. They combed miles and miles of
highway to try to find maybe any discarded clothing, but
basically didn't have anything. So that case went cold nineteen
(19:50):
ninety five. All that evidence sat in the evidence locker
for basically eighteen years. They pulled it out occasionally once
they found out, you know, DNA was advancing at the time,
from the mid nineties to the two thousand's, you know,
that's when they first started getting into touch DNA, So
they thought, well, maybe they could get try to swab
(20:13):
those granite rocks and try to get some of the
touch DNA from where obviously he had ripped it with
his hand and couldn't get much of anything. They'd get
little blips, but nothing really that would show up that
would be you know, approbative basically. And then in around
twenty thirteen, they learned about the mback and that's when
(20:38):
we had first pivoted into the forensics and a lab
called Sorens and Forensics in Salt Lake City had purchased
the first one and they started contacting all of these
agencies around and saying, hey, we got this new DNA
collection tool, let's try it on some of these cases
that you know they failed and basically everything else. So
(21:02):
Bristol's case was one of the first ones, and they
collected twenty one nanograms of DNA material. So anybody that's
listening that really understands DNA, you need about a half
a nanogram of cells basically to create a full profile.
(21:23):
And they collected twenty one nanograms, unbelievable, forty two times
more than what they needed. And this was collected off
of the granite rocks, so pretty amazing. They they then
loaded uploaded that profile and a codis and it immediately
hit Joseph Simpson was his name, and he had been
(21:44):
out of prison only about eight months when he killed Crystal.
He'd been serving for second degree murder. He'd been served
about ten years and gets out. He's driving limos for
the ski resorts up there. I don't know what their
vetting process was back then, but they probably need to
(22:05):
enhance that a little bit. But yeah, then, so he
knew all these fishing spots and all the ski resorts
and everything, and he knew right alongside the Provo River.
He knew exactly where a good park parking spot was,
and that's where they were doing it. I mean, Crystal,
it's it's really sad. If you see Crystal's high school
(22:27):
last her last high school I think was her junior year.
Her high school picture, she was, you know, just like
Kathy's picture in you know, just a just an all American,
sweet little girl. But then she got hooked up with
the wrong guy. But it took him eighteen years and
(22:48):
they finally were able to solve it. And that was
really one of the very first m back cases that
that was really hit, you know, went big with the news.
And I'll tell you, every time I do a presentation
on the MBAC, I stole this saying from you, Cheryl,
So I have to give you full credit, and I
(23:08):
actually do every time I talk about it. But it's
what you're saying every case, every tool, every time.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Oh absolutely no doubt about it. You should never say, hey,
we could do this, but we'll wait, We'll try something
else first. No, every tool on every case, every time period.
For you. You have now worked thousands of cases. Are
(23:37):
there any that still stick with you because you solved
them or because y'all have not.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
There was one case in particular in Salt Lake that
it was a gang member that just kind of walked
up and shot a rival gang member and then as
he was running away, he was wearing a hoodie and
he threw the weapon into a ditch and then peeled
(24:04):
off this sweatshirt and threw that into a ditch. And
they recovered it the next day, and they tried swabbing
pretty much everywhere and they were just getting like just
kind of weird mixtures. And then they decided to try
the imback on it, and so we actually took a
system up there and and helped them kind of learn
(24:26):
how to how to use it. And then we were
just kind of standing there and helping them, you know,
make sure they used it correctly, and they, you know,
they got him. And that was a that was a
pretty cool case because you know, as it's gang gang related,
stuff is really difficult because there's it's everything's community. You know,
(24:48):
they share everything, and so they'll share weapons, they'll share clothing,
and so it's it's it's difficult to just get one
particular or even just a couple of profiles off of
something because there's such what you know, what they call
a mixture. And that was that was really early on,
you know, twenty twelve or twenty thirteen, somewhere around there,
(25:11):
when we first pivoted into forensics. And yeah, that's always
made an impression on me, just because I was able
to actually see the m BACK being used on actual evidence.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Well, I know the first time I was ever aware
of y'all, and I heard you speak on a case
that was forty years old, and I was just amazed
when you started talking about the different types of things
that you could get DNA off of. It was like
this whole new world opened up for us, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, there's not very many surface types that the m
BACK can't I can't get DNA from. And it's it's
it's awesome because even if they do prior methods like
swabbing or even cuttings, it typically leaves behind a significant
(26:11):
amount of DNA, so the MBAT can actually come back
behind these other methods and still collect from the exact
same spot and still get magnitudes more. You know, when
the FBI tested it, they showed that it was up
to sixty six times more than what the swab would
(26:32):
originally collect, So, you know, which is sixty six hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
And one thing I love about forensics in any case,
it doesn't have a dog in the fight. So the
MBAT was also used in twenty nineteen to clear a
wrongly convicted man.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
He was wrongfully convicted and in fact, I kind of
hinted at that case earlier about the the suspect who
had actually killed Angie Dodge was the victim's name. They
were going to convict somebody, and they ended up convicting
Chris Tap Twenty years later they figured out and amazingly,
(27:15):
to her credit, Angie Dodge's mom, she just wouldn't let
it go, and she kept visiting Chris in prison, asking
him who helped him because there were multiple DNA profiles
on her or I'm sorry, there was one DNA profile
and it didn't match Chris. She finally insisted that the
(27:37):
Idaho Falls police used the mback on Angie's clothing, that
she was wearing when she was murdered, and find another
you know, find Chris Taps DNA somewhere on there. And
because supposedly he wasn't the one that had raped her,
but supposedly he was the one that was holding her down,
(28:00):
so his DNA would have been on her clothing somewhere.
So when they used the m back and our friend
Francine Bardol was actually the one that did it, m
backed her sweats t shirt and even her the teddy
bear that the killer had used to kind of muffle
Angie's screams and just really thoroughly impact him. Found lots
(28:27):
of DNA and it all matched one person and none
of it was Chris Tap And so based on that,
and plus the fact that he had already served twenty years,
they let him out. Of course, then that basically reopened
the case. So now they have to find out who's
DNA profile that actually and so then they turned to
(28:50):
the big basically the genetic genealogy investigative technique, and that's
when they tracked this guy down in in the Boise area.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Remarkable, I mean, again, the way the dots are being
connected with technology and old fashioned police work, the right
items being collected legally and scientifically. Look what is leading
to decades later.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, it's so amazing, you know, every single step in
the investigative process. And again, Cheryl, just watching folks like
you work, knowing that, like you said, you may not
have what you need right now to solve it. But
by collecting everything and collecting it properly, you know, making
(29:39):
sure that you're wearing the protective clothing and the mask
and everything. Someday then a new technology will come around
and who could have known that, you know, this ancestry
would eventually lead to solving the Golden State Killer. And
then from there thousands of ca have't been solved.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
And here's what was really wicked. The MVAT was never
invented for crime solvent. Tell everybody what your dad.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Did, well, he was a microbiologist. Back in nineteen ninety three,
there was an E Coli outbreak. Some undercooked hamburgers still
had E. Coli in him, and so he recognized that there,
you know, that's a problem, and so basically figured out
that the upfront collection was was the primary problem. Figured
(30:32):
out how to how to get more aggressive with it,
you know, getting down on the little nooks and crannies
where the E. Colei might be might be hiding. And
so that's kind of how the impact was invented. I
ran into a college buddy and he was I'd gotten
into the military, but he got into the FBI, and
I was explaining the MBAC to him in the context
(30:53):
of collecting E. Coli and he was like, man, that
would have been amazing on some of my crime scenes.
On occasion, the light bulb goes off, and we thought, well,
let's let's go give it a try, and so we
took it to a lab and and when they came
back and after testing it for us, they said, we've
never seen recoveries like this. This is absolutely amazing. And
(31:15):
they said, by the way, we're buying that machine. So
they had enough insight to recognize it as a is
it a good tool that could be used especially on
cold cases. And so they started started reaching out to
agencies like Salt Lake PD and you know the areas
even down as far as Arizona in place like that,
(31:37):
and saying, hey, if you have evidence that we haven't
got a good profile from, let's resubmit it and try
this new tool on it. So, yeah, it's solved. Solved
some pretty cool cases.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I'll tell you, it is a different world. It's a
whole new ball game.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Honestly, Cheryl, I don't know how anybody could get away
with meeting a heinous crime nowadays.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well they got to work a whole lot harder, I
tell you that, and most of them are not going
to be able to do it. Look at Coburger. He
allegedly studied all these different serial killers, and look at
the mistakes he made, and one of them was leaving
behind DNA. Jared, I cannot thank you enough for all
that you do for any agency that needs you. And
(32:25):
if y'all follow him on social media, you see that
he is at different police departments in different states and
different countries all the time. He will literally load up
that MBAT and come and help you and join in
the investigation. So I appreciate you. I know what you've
(32:45):
done in Georgia. I know what you've done for some
of our cold cases at the institute across the country.
I mean, you've gone to North Carolina for me, You've
gone to Florida obviously Georgia. You've gone to different states,
and you know worked some cases. Is that we didn't
have anything without you, so thank you so much, Jared.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Well, honestly, working with folks like you, you know, Prime
and SEE investigators, detectives, DNA analysts, you just consummate professionals.
It's I've done a lot of things in my life,
and I'll tell you there's nothing it's as rewarding as
getting a phone call from somebody like Cheryl Mack and
(33:30):
you would not believe what happened. And to me, that's
that makes everything worth it.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And I love to make those phone calls, Sugar, y'all.
I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I
always do with a quote, the m VAT can vacuum
one hundred and eighty six times more than a swam
cap Jared Bradley, President of the MVAT System. I'm Cheryl McCollum,
(34:02):
and this is Zone seven. HM.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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