June 11, 2025 • 41 mins
Danny Cupples is a certified forensic death investigator and Tennessee’s first Chief Death Investigator. He has trained NYC’s elite forensic teams, teaches infant death investigations at MTSU, and serves on a newly formed cold case unit. He's also the co-creator of the life-saving Locator Bulb.
Listeners can learn more about Danny Cupples at The Locator 911, and on Linkedin @DannyCupples
In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum sits down with the incredible Danny Cupples, a decorated death investigator and true Southern crime-fighting legend, to dig deep into one of the most haunting cases out of Tennessee. They retrace the exact path Sheriff Buford Pusser took that fateful night, examining every detail from fresh eyes and modern forensics. They dissect the high-velocity blood spatter, missing pools of blood where they should be, and some very curious wound trajectories. Sheryl and Danny pull back the curtain on the long-whispered secrets of the Dixie Mafia, question the motives behind Pauline’s exhumation after 50 years, and reveal just how far the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation has gone to finally get to the truth.
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome back to Zone 7 with Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum
- (0:10) The ambush of Buford Pusser
- (2:00) Sheryl welcomes guest, Danny Cupples to Zone 7
- (4:00) Chance meetings and cold case connections
- (6:30) Tour bus incident and tenstions in the town
- (10:00) “Let the evidence produce the truth. An autopsy will do that.”
- (10:30) The forensic importance of delayed autopsy
- (13:30) Blood spatter, voids, and contradictions
- (19:00) Rear door blood and alternative theories
- (22:00) The narrow road and tunnel effect
- (22:30) Forensic truth vs. local legend
- (24:30) The Dixie Mafia
- (27:00) Two ambushes, one victim - does this add up?
- (30:00) The critical need for an autopsy
- (32:00) Questions of motive
- (34:30) Car forensics, and witness testimonies
- (37:00) Two things that don’t make sense in the case
- (40:00) The Locator 911 bulb
- (41:00) ”I will answer all calls.” -Sherrif Buford Pusser
- Thanks for listening to another episode! If you’re loving the show and want to help grow the show, please head over to Itunes and leave a rating and review!
---
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdC
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
It was August twelfth, nineteen sixty seven, when Sheriff Bufford
Pusser and his wife Pauline left their home to answer
a disturbance call. Sheriff Pusser said he passed New Hope
Church and just down the road, he and Pauline were ambushed.
Shots rang out in the darkness from the woodline on
(00:31):
that lonely road. On Pauline's side, Sheriff Pusser sped off.
He wanted to get away from the shooter. He goes
about two miles down the road is check it on
Pauline when shockingly, they are ambushed a second time. In
this attack, Pauline was killed and Sheriff Pusser suffered a
(00:55):
massive injury to his jaw on his left side. Sheriff
Pusser said he was inside the car when he was shot,
so was Pauline. All of this happened about three miles
from the Mississippi state line. Last weekend, I got a
chance to drive that same route that Sheriff Pusser took
(01:19):
from his home to both ambush sites. This was a
law enforcement tour that Mike Elam had set up. He
had officers from Alabama, Kentucky, Georgia, Tennessee, and Mississippi. He
had folks from the Sheriff's office greet us, as well
as folks that were there at the ambush site when
(01:41):
it happened. They were some of the first people own seen.
One of the invited guests that is with us tonight
is a dedicated first responder, a critical care paramedic, a
trained death investigator. He's an American Board certified death investigator,
(02:02):
and he trained the prestigious New York City Death Investigator's course.
That course includes advanced technology and blood stained pattern analysis.
He was Tennessee's first chief death investigator. He is a
forensic investigator for the Forensic Medical Management of Nashville. He
(02:23):
currently teaches infant death investigations for Middle Tennessee State University
and most recently joined the newly formed cold case team
within the Sheriff's Department. He's been married since in nineteen
eighty five, has two adult children and two grandsons. Please
(02:43):
help me welcome Danny Couples to his own seven.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Hey buddy, Hey Cheryl, how you doing. That's so glad
to be on here.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I tell you I've been looking so forward to this
ever since we met. Right there in person in front
of the courthouse in mid Nairy County. And I'll tell
you, you know, I didn't know you were going to be there.
I didn't know our good buddy, you know, Jason White,
he didn't tell he the one of us, you know,
he was supposed to be there. But we found each
(03:13):
other anyhow, And I am so glad.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I am too, so shocked to see you when I
you know, I walked around the edge of the bus
and there you stood. Uh uh, you know, I can
I can tell you the actual of the days before
that that happened is really it's really funny in a way.
But I was actually in a cold case investigation meeting
(03:37):
and my the homicide detective that I worked under, saw
that podcast that you and Jason were on, what a
couple of weeks ago, and he saw that book that
you showed about cold cases. He was going on vacation,
and he thought, man, I would love to have that
book so that I, you know, do a little reading
(03:58):
on the beach, you know. And uh, and I said, well,
I've got a few connections. Let me let me call
my buddy Jason and see if he can if he
has a copy or he knows how I can get one.
So I called him, he called, I texted him. He
called me right away, and uh, he said, you know,
I don't know. Let me help you look. And we
got on you know, the sites, and tried to find one.
(04:21):
He couldn't find one. He said, I'll tell you what.
I'll just get you her email address and you can
email her. Maybe maybe she'll respond and you can get
one that way. And uh, I said, that's that's great. Now. Now,
Jason was supposed to meet me here in Tennessee and
we were supposed to go down there that morning, but
there's a lot of things happened in his area and
(04:43):
he wasn't able to go. So you know, we all
we knew that right away. So anyway, still couldn't find it.
And I kind of gave up. And I went down
that morning to meet with with Mike Elam and Dennis
Hathcock and and and that's where it was, around the
edge of the bus and there you stood, is that
(05:07):
Cheryl McCollum. No, that's somebody from mcneryka And no, no,
it is her. And I was just like blown away.
I'm just like an excited puppy or something. You can
probably tell when I went up to you and I said,
I just can't believe it. And that's when I did
like a little selfie and sent back to Jason and
it's just like, why didn't you tell me she was
(05:29):
coming when she was going to be here? And he's like, well,
I thought I did, No, you didn't.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
It was wonderful. And I'll tell you every single person
in law enforcement that Mike had there was just exceptional,
such great insights, such great questions. It just enhanced being
on those you know, landmark sites with all of you.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I absolutely did you have. We had officers from everywhere,
police that I met that wanted to come and weren't
able to. If everybody would have been there on the
law enforcement side, they that could have come that was
supposed to, it would have been fifty or sixty cars
of law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And you know, people are divided on this thing, and
there's some people that are such Beauford fans that the
idea that they have even exhumed Pauline angers them. And
something happened that morning to our tour bus. Tell everybody
what happened. Even before we got started.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, I met Dennis Hathcock, who was taking care of
the bus that morning, and I believe that bus is his.
He got it all marked up. The Truth has no
agenda on the side of it. And I got there
a little early and I met him at a gas station.
We talked, chatted for a little bit, and came back
(06:57):
to the courthouse, went down into the basement of the
courthouse where another sort of museum is set up about
be for Pusser. And we were down there talking. This
guy walks in and we thought he was just kidding
at first. He said, Hey, what about that hole in
your back window. I was, yeah, right, okay. He said, no, really,
(07:19):
there's a hole in your back window of the tour bus.
Oh yeah, okay. So then we could tell he was
serious then, you know, And so we all got up
went out there, and there was You saw it. It
was a whole bout the size of a baseball assume,
And I didn't. I never saw it whenever I first
(07:40):
started looking at because I was looking at the bus,
I was pretty in my age. And how he got
it set up, you know, and uh with a you know,
Truth has no agenda tours and it looked I thought
it looked pretty cool. And how I missed that hole
in the back window. I'll never know. And of course
we get in there and look around and have the
police come and they did an investigation and actually looked
(08:03):
at video surveillance to find out that it did not
happen at the courthouse, happened somewhere else. But yeah, that
was kind of wild. It started out wild, for sure,
we did.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
And you know, people have asked me why exum her
after fifty years and when I tell them Hauline never
had an autopsy, was never done. And you know, to me,
that's one of those things where let's get some answers
definitively one way or the other. For example, how many
(08:35):
times was she shot? We'll know that. We'll know it.
The trajectory, the entrance wound, the exit wound, will know it.
And do those things line up with Sheriff Pusser's story.
It's going to be yes or no. But there's your
answer and we can move from there instead of just
having all these questions lingering. There's no reason to do that,
(09:00):
right right exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
That's how you want to know the truth. This is
one way to do it, no matter what side you're on.
Now you know, as you know, I'm from that area.
And my name is Halthcock. That's my mother's name. And
you know, my grandmother was murdered there during that time,
during this time of Beauford being shared. It had nothing
(09:22):
to do with Beauford as far as we know. But anyway,
and I've had people come to me, well, you're doing
this because you're half cocked name. No, I'm not doing
it because of my half cock name. I'm doing it
because for justice for the innocent and the innocent or
the dead. And that's why I'm doing it.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
That's right. Because Paul Lane's case is a cold case.
Nobody's ever been arrested or convicted for her murder, never have.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And it's not too cause we just saw a fifty
year old case in our department and it can be solved.
And again, let the evidence produce the truth. An autopsy
will do that, just like you said. It'll show the
true dectory, how many times was she really shot, and
(10:11):
maybe even other ones that may not even be related.
There's so much that an autopsy will show.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
And that's one thing. If there was a fight on
the inside of that car or at their home, does
she have a broken pinky? Does she have a broken
nose is an orbital bone broken? Those are the kind
of things we want to know. Look at her hands,
look at her shoulders, look at her back, look at
her head. All of those things are going to be
(10:39):
just critical to move forward in one direction really other?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Right? Ha, howodbom? I mean, there's so much I don't know.
If you remember Medgar Evers story, exhumed his body after
how many years was it it was or sixty And
when they opened him up and opened that from that
casket and looked, it was jaw dropping. And from what
I understand, this was the same way. That's as far
(11:07):
into the endto what I know that I can tell,
but I will say it was jaw dropping as well.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
And you know, I think again, if you look through
here's the story. Here are the crime scene photographs. This
is the result from the autopsy. Those three things should
line up. It should make sense to everybody. Now, I'm
going to tell you there's some things in the crime
scene photographs that don't add up for me, and I
(11:36):
want you and I just talk about the first one
right now. I don't want to wait any longer. There
is blood spatter on the hood of the car that
looks to me like high velocity, right.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Are you ready for me to answer that one? That
hood of that car is really Mike Elom called me
it's been a while now and asked me to look
at all those photographs, and that's what we have as photographs,
and that one picture really told Just that one picture
(12:09):
tells tells a lot of story of what happened, especially
compared to the actual what Beiefford said happened. The blood
spatter was on the I don't have the picture in
front of me. I'm going by memory. The blood spatter
(12:29):
was on the front of the car, the hood on
the more towards the passenger's side, going from the front
of the car towards the windshield, and that was the
direction that the blood spatter was traveling at a high
velocity speed as it as it something happened in standing
(12:53):
in the front of that car, not driving down the road.
Because you know as well, I mean, you know blood
stained pattern analysis. You've been to those trainings. You know
when a droplet of blood strikes an object, that droplet
of blood shape will tell you the story of where
(13:13):
it comes from.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Now, let me paint a picture of everybody. The hood
of the car like color, so you can see the
blood pretty clear that it's high velocity, little tiny. The
windshield is intact. There is a bullet hole on the
left hand side, passenger side, near you know, the frame
(13:38):
toward the street. It looks to me like a bullet
hole in the hood of the car. The windshield wiper
is also intact, so right off the gate. You know,
this did not come from inside the car. You know,
it didn't come from the back. You know, it didn't
come from either side. That person had to be standing
(14:00):
in the front of that car to get that spatter
where it was. The other thing that's curious to me,
Sheriff Pusser says he was in the car driving after
Pauline was shot. She was laying in his lap. Her
head was in his lap. If you look at the
(14:21):
crime scene photograph of the inside of the car, it
looks like there's two drops of blood right where the
driver would be seated. I don't know how that happens.
There should be like a large pool of blood there
that would be obvious to me, right. I don't know
if somebody pulled her up first and then got him
(14:42):
out of the car, and maybe he kind of had
his head kind of stealing the car, sliding out, and
there was drops of blood. That just it looks odd
to me. It doesn't look like that fits from the
massive wound that he had where his jaw was blown off.
Half her head is blown off. There should be just
pools and pools of blood where her head was on
(15:04):
the door frame, where her head was in his lap.
Tell me what you think of that.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
From what I read through Elian's book and through actual
evidences that he said, he never got out of the car.
He put one foot, he put his left foot down
as if he was going to get out of the car,
and then the ambush the assailants pulled up. But anyway,
(15:36):
if he didn't get up and get out, there would
not be any blood at all where he was sitting.
He would be a void spot completely there. And it's not.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And there's no void pattern anywhere near the hood of
the car.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Either none, not at all, not where someone may have
been or an object may have been in the way
of the spatter, which would because avoid I want to
make this statement. I'm actually at a good friend of
mine who is also a retired homicide detective's house, and
I was talking to him this morning, I said, what
if you had this same call, this same scene, and
(16:18):
if it wasn't me for Puster, if it is some
stranger and we don't know anybody about you would look
you would look at this the same way we are doing. Now.
You know we're we're not on this side, We're not
on that side. We're on finding the truth and the
evidence tells the truth, especially when there is one story
(16:40):
that you can compare to, and we do have that
in this in this instance, you want to, I would
love to talk about the blood on the door.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I was just getting there. Go right on.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I've been I've been doing this a long time, and
I've worked a lot occasions, not as many as you have,
but a lot a lot of by cases. And you know,
we talked about void avoid areas a little bit ago,
and that means something is in the way from blood
reaching that area of that object. On that door. There
(17:15):
is a void spot the size of someone's face ahead
on that door, near the lock. As if. Now, if
I didn't know anything about what the store or anybody's store,
I would say, if someone showed me this picture and
tell me what you think, here's what I would say,
(17:35):
but not knowing anything about anybody's door, is that there
was an object. Probably if the person in there, their
head would be placed on that door and in they
would be shot at that at that position. And the
way the blood is, the blood is not a high
(17:57):
velocity tipe spatter. It's more of a pouring out of
the body. You know when the bodies when when you
get injured, your your your venus blood and your arterial
more more venus. You you kind of pour a pours
out and it looks like that is what happened. Is
(18:19):
so whatever happened was probably shot. I'm gonna say, from
my opinion, I think she was probably shot in the
back of the head and the blood poured down the
inside of the car, leaving that void spot. What do
you say, the same thing, Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I do. But there's one thing I want you to
answer for me. Looking at the car, there's also some
drops of blood on the back passenger's door, and they're
dripping straight down, not at an angle like he's driving, not
like they're smeared that somebody you know, touched it and
(18:57):
was moving, just drops a bod How do you think
that occurred?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, you know it didn't occur while he's driving down
the road. That's impossible. We know, blood tells us that
blood spatter, going back to our blood spatter analysis training,
blood tells us that that didn't happen driving down the road. Right.
In my opinion, I mean, by my expert opinion from
our training, is that someone was on that side of
(19:29):
the car, outside of the car when that happened, when
that droplet fell. Who it came from, you know, I
don't know, but I know it didn't happen. Well, he's
driving down the road being changed.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
No question, the car shot up. I think the car
shot eleven times. They found fourteen shell cases. You know,
with a long barrel rifle, if you pull right beside somebody,
I don't know how you missed three times. So that's
kind of curious to me. It's curious to me that
Beeft said at some point he reached out and grabbed
(20:05):
the barrel of the gun. Now, if they had shot
fourteen times, that barrel is going to be hot as fire.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
It's gonna burn his hand, and uh, you know I
would be you know, I don't know if we brought
this up, but Tennessee Bureau of Investigations from what I understand,
done a phenomenal job. They I believe they had some
grant money to help get this done, but they did.
They went all out and and you've been a detective
(20:38):
understand that. You know you have to go to the
hospital and get records at times. And maybe maybe they
got medical records that shows if he had burn injuries
on his hand. Maybe that's something I don't know and
haven't seen yet. But I do know that TBI did
(20:58):
a phenomenal job with this investigation. They went above and
beyond on this and they looked at things just like
we are we are talking about with the factories from
like if somebody pulled up the side of the long gun,
which direction with even less it was a long gun,
(21:19):
which direction of the projectile, if it did hit pauland
if it did even if it hit a pusser like
he says, on the left side of the jaw with
a high powered rifle. I know what a high powered
rifle does to a face. I've seen it a number
(21:42):
of times. But that just that just doesn't add up
to me.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Well, they said they found fourteen spent shellcases that were
thirty caliber cartridges.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Thirty caliber, Yeah, that's a that's a big gun.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And here's the deal. You're not going to fire that
weapon from inside the assailant's car. It would blow your
ear drums out, So they're gonna hang out the window.
That's gonna give you even a closer shot. If that
barrel is you know, twelve inches, then you're even closer
to the victim exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Do you remember how narrow that road was the other day?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yes, because you know what I thought about the left
hand side of the road, that's the way it was.
That is unchanged now. The right side has houses now,
but it didn't then. So I tried to visualize both
sides of the roads looked just like that tree lined.
The trees were right up on the road. There was
(22:39):
very little.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Give, almost giving it a tunnel effect in a cent.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Correct, great, great analogy. Yes, it was like a tunnel.
And y'all listen. Beford, his dad was the jailer, and
he tried to make sure that Buford got sleep. From
about two am to six am. During those four hours,
he took every call. This particular call, when it came in,
(23:06):
the caller insisted that Beauford answered the call personally, and
it was around three o'clock in the morning. Beauford does
not call out on the radio until six point twenty,
so there was an awful lot of time that's left
unaccounted for now. He is severely injured. He could have
(23:26):
passed out. He could have not been able to speak
for a long time because of his injury. The chief
of police that heard the radio call said he could
barely understand him, but did get enough information to think
he knew about where they were. Some passer buyers came by.
One of them drove the tour van for us. Mister
(23:49):
Hathcock was there on his motorcycle. He's the one that
found part of Pauline's skull, So we got an eye
witness that's telling us what he saw once he got there,
and both victims were in the car. Both Sheriff Pusser
and Pauline were in the car. So again, I don't
(24:10):
know how you explain the spatter on the hood of
the car. Now, I want to be real clear about
one thing. That hood of that car would have been hot,
and that can change the shape of blood drops, but
not as much would be changed that we can't determine
what we're seeing. It's still clear that it's high velocity.
(24:32):
It's still clear that somebody had to be in the
front of that car. Now, Danny, they were found about
a mile north of the Tennessee Mississippi line on US
forty five. Now that is critical because of the state line.
Mob talk a little bit about the Dixie Mafia.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So all I've got is hearsay. I'll be honest, even
my family hearsay. And I've even discovered that some of
it was not true. But from what the story says
that on the Mississippi Tennessee line, supposedly there were establishments
that had gambling and bootlegging and things like that going on,
(25:19):
and that's where a lot of this is focused on.
And from what Elm has pulled up and what I
pulled up later, a lot of that just wasn't as true,
especially as what came from the movie.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
You know, the Dixie Mafia is a real thing, and
they're a loosely organized criminal organization. It's kind of like
each criminal is the head of their own deal, but
they can come together as one if they need to
for certain things. So for example, if I wanted to
(25:52):
rob a bank, Danny could get me a stolen car
and then Mike could get us a tag. So I
use other people to help facilitate my enterprise. So one
person might make the moonshine, another person's going to run it,
another person's going to sell it, that sort of thing.
So they're loosely based. Everybody kind of makes money. But
(26:14):
they were a dangerous group.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Definitely was. And from what I was told. You know,
my mother wrote one of her last letters, as she wrote, Now,
I found this not to be true, but in her
but she believed this. She said that one of the
last things in her letter was that my mother was
killed by the State Line mob. And I believe she
believed that. I really do. And that is a real thing.
(26:39):
I mean, it was real. But was it real compared
to what the movie said? You know, I don't think
there was a single establishment ever documented being closed down
like it was told.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Well, have you ever heard of two ambushes in one event?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I saw it on a movie once called Walking Talk.
That's about it.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
That's about it.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, that's the first time I've ever heard of that.
You know, it seemed like if you you ambush the
first time you get out of there, you know, even
in the New York stuff, that you that you read
about and see all the time. I mean, it doesn't
it happens, it GE's gone. But this is the first
time for me, I've ever even heard about it.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
And you know, again, looking at the crime scene photographs,
you see a holster on the front seat of the car.
It looks empty. Now it's not a great photograph, it's
not super clear, but it looks empty. I mean, did
Sheriff puss or not get one shot off? Where was
his gun? And if he had a gun in his hand,
how did he grab the barrel of the you know,
(27:54):
the other weapon Because you know, again you're talking about
a weapon if they're accurate, and what they thought they saw,
whether it's a you know, an AR or an M
one whatever, they're saying, that's a long barrel rifle and
you know that, car bean, that's a dead accurate weapon,
(28:15):
dead accurate, and especially if you're side by side in
a car. And I just don't know how there wasn't
more damage to him. And I am not saying he
was not severely injured. He was, But when they say,
you know, his whole chin was off, well, I mean
the photographs show that it wasn't a huge gaping hole, absolutely,
(28:39):
but I believe at just a few feet it would
have blown his face off.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
You know, Cheryl, as a as a crime scene investigator,
a law enforcement officer, per se was ambushed and they
left the same wood, would it not as a law
enforce horseman officer have a weapon and grab it and
have it out ready for the next ambush site in
(29:06):
his hand, ready to shoot. That's what I would think,
That's what I would see.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
That's right. And Buford was left handed. He could have
shot out that winda while driving with his right hand.
It doesn't seem like that was done. And here's the
other thing. You have a law enforcement officer that is
ambushed and his wife is killed. Now, this was a
man that doled out justice, street justice as anybody ever
(29:34):
in the purest sense. I mean, they just went around
busting heads in that county. You're telling me nobody was
ever arrested, nobody was ever brought in and questioned, nobody
was ever beat, not one person. That doesn't sound like
Sheriff Pusser to me. Right there.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
It makes no sense at all to me either, not
at all. Nothing about this whole ambush makes sense. And
anybody that does think that is what he said, hasn't
looked at the evidence and hasn't looked at it as
we have, and maybe hasn't wrote that ambush side as
we did. But it's right in front of the evidence
(30:19):
is there. It's not what it was told.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And you know, Mike Elam in twenty twenty three gave
TBI a tip about that very weapon that belonged to
Sheriff Usser. They thought they had enough information to then
February of twenty twenty four, exum her Now, I'm going
(30:43):
to tell you all the results are in. They are
under seal. But DA Mark Davison hasn't he knows the results.
I don't know why there is such a delay in
providing the answer.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I don't either. I can guess. You know, there has
been a lot of things going on in that district
for that district attorney. He has had a lot of
on his play and this is a very high profile
case that's going to make a large impact on a
lot of people and the community itself. And I'm assuming
(31:21):
that he's making a decision and deciding when the appropriate
time to release that information. That's my opinion. That's why
it's taking so long.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
And y'all, here's the bottom line. They still have the car,
so they can do trajectory today. They can put rods
in that car right now. And again, if you'vever being six',
Six pauline was little. Empathy the, injuries they can line them.
Up does this match the? Story does this match the
(31:58):
injuries to the? Car you, know was the person that's
shot in front of the car standing or bent? Over
Was buford tucked down like he says he got in the.
FLOORBOARD i don't know how a man sixty, six two
hundred pounds gets in the floorboard of that, car but
that's what that's what he said. Happened and When pauline
(32:19):
is shot from what side is she? Shot they, again
with this, autopsy are going to be able to look
for broken, bones. Bruising they're gonna check, arms, hands, legs her,
back the number of bullet, wounds the, trajectory the entry
and exit, wounds void. Patterns they're going to look for
all of, it every bit of it.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Right and they'll find. It they'll have an answer and
they'll you, know they're not. Biased this is a law
enforcement agency that's done a phenomenal. Job and again that's
AS edom, said you, know the truth has no, agenda
and that will be told very.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Soon and you, know it's interesting because some people have asked, me,
well why in the world would the sheriff take his wife.
Along the story that was told was they were leaving
for vacation later that day to go To. Florida And pauline,
knew you, know the sheriff well enough to know if
(33:17):
he got out there at some, dispute that he would
be out there a couple, hours then go to the
jail and hang out and socialize for a couple. Hours
and she didn't want to be late leaving For, florida
so she went with him to keep him on. Task
whether that's true or, NOT i don't, know but that's
the way it's been. Told we know she was in the.
Car we know other people have said they were having,
(33:39):
trouble that there was luggage, packed but that's because she
was leaving the. Sheriff, again this is why the autopsy
is so critical to.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Me it's just the story that we've heard from my
witnesses is that that's the story of him from them
going on vacation doesn't add up to witness. Statements witness
statements say that they were actually separated and she was
living in a hotel and she was planning an escape per.
Se And i've been told by people down there that
(34:13):
she would never ride with him in the first. Place
people that are my family and friends that's lived there
their whole lives and was there during that, time said
that she would never ride in the car with. Him
she was terrified to ride with him.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Because he drove fast as. Lightning everywhere he.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Went everywhere he, went he drove. Fast and that's ultimately
that cost him his.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Life it, did and that is another. Reason on That
New Hope, road if you're standing where they say that
the sniper was, standing it would be, IMPOSSIBLE i, think
to see that car coming at one hundred miles an
hour and get the shots off that they.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Did it can't be. Done there's no way it could.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Happen, well there's one more thing about. MOTIVE i want
to go back To Dixie mafia for a, minute Because
Carl Douglas, WHITE i know him As Towhead. White he
was active In, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee. Mississippi he was part
of The Dixie. Mafia, well he had a common law, Wife,
(35:21):
louise And beauford Killed. Louise now to, me that's. Motive
you got motive right there to retaliate for your.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Woman, absolutely and you. Do and you, KNOW i Think
beeford tried afterwards to lay that On Towhead white as
being one of the shooters from the, ambush.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
That's, right and never ever made any kind of. Arrest
And louise's last name was Also. Halfcock so we're back
to that family. Tree and y'all the reason the state
line at that time was the perfect playground for. Criminals
if you're In tennessee and you cross Into, mississippi the
(36:11):
law had to. Stop they couldn't chase you, anymore wasn't their.
Jurisdiction so if you had a steal just inside Of,
tennessee all you had to do was run less than
a mile and you were a free. Man and so,
again Where buford wound up made. Sense it's a law
enforcement you. Know his car being riddled with bullets made.
(36:32):
Sense that looked like an. Ambush the place that had
happened made. Sense it all made. Sense where it doesn't
make sense is the, blood the empty, holster the drops
on the back passenger, side the hood of the car
and that nobody was ever.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Charged right tooth other, Things, cheryl that that doesn't make.
Sense it does not add. Up is time time, frame
this time from two thirty to forty. Five what happened
during that? Time you, know it don't even takes ten
minutes to get from their house where the ambush. Happened
(37:12):
what happened in that two hours and forty five, minutes it's.
Gone that's nobody can can say what happened during that.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yep because even if he did lose consciousness for a little,
bit that's an awful long.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Time.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah regarding the movie With Joe Don baker walking, tall
there's some things even his deputies have said wasn't. Accurate
the fact that he walked around with a big. Stick
they said he didn't do that every.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Day he'd grabbed a fence posed one. Time and that's
that's kind of where the movie production took. It, sure
they thought it would really look good if if a
law man used a stick instead of a. Gun you,
Know i've had people come up to me and, says
please please help take him down because he was such
an evil. Man and you, Know i'm just going by
(37:58):
what my family has told me and friends you know
from there that grew up, there that not somebody that watched.
IT i loved the, Movie don't get me. WRONG i
thought it was a cool movie growing, up and until
AS i got OLDER i understood that there's nothing like
what really. Happened but it was a good. Movie it
brought a lot of people into law.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Enforcement and you, know he could be a generous. Man
he believed in second. Chances but from everything That i've
heard from people in town and his own, deputies don't cross, him.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Right he was a big. Man he was a big.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Man, Well, DANNY i will have you back when we
get the answers and we will break it all. Down
BUT i just adored meeting you in. Person it just
made the trip so much more. Incredible and it was already.
Fantastic BUT i want to mention one other. Thing if
you don't, mind you invented, something and to, me it
(38:57):
is one of the most ingenious kind of right there
in your, Face, like how in the world have we
not thought about this? Before so anybody that has ever
had an emergency inside their, house whether it's medical or
fire or whatever it might, be and you live in
a situation maybe all the houses are close together and
(39:19):
kind of looked the, same like a condominium or your
way out in the middle of, nowhere and they can't
hardly see your house from the. Road tell them what you, Invented.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Denny, well actually it was my best friend that actually invented,
it and he was on a call where it was
a child in cardiac. Arrest they inputting their information into
THEIR gps went. Out long story, short they took that
information and ended up on the side of the road
(39:47):
with no houses or no house, numbers no. Mailboxes they
drove down another couple of, miles found that mailboxes turned
right up into the driveway with no house numbers to
find finally find the. House it added about five or
six minutes to the, call and ultimately the child. Died
he came to me just like weeks later and he,
(40:09):
said this is really this cause really haunted. Me i've
got an idea that would really. Help and he told
me about the locator. Bulb he, said what if we
had a bulb that goes that you can replace your
regular light on the front of your house with this.
Bulb it'll work just like a regular light until you
need it for a beacon for first, responders you, know he,
(40:32):
said we can put an app on your. Phone you
can hit it on your app and it'll activate it
when something. Happens, otherwise you can use it every day
as a regular. LIGHT i told him that was a fantastic.
Idea we went to, work we got double patent on,
it and it took a few. Years when you, activated
(40:53):
it turns, white red and, blue, red white and blue
in a flashing, pattern and it alerts us as for
responders to your. Location we got a call recently out
Of florida that has said it helped save a child's
life after you, know it started that way and now
it's saved a child's.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Life, Well Danny, couples thank, you thank, you thank. You
And i'm going to End zone seven the way THAT
i always do with a. QUOTE i will answer all. Calls, sheriff, you.
Professor I'm cheryl, McCollum and this is only seven
It was August twelfth, nineteen sixty seven, when Sheriff Bufford
Pusser and his wife Pauline left their home to answer
a disturbance call. Sheriff Pusser said he passed New Hope
Church and just down the road, he and Pauline were ambushed.
Shots rang out in the darkness from the woodline on
(00:31):
that lonely road. On Pauline's side, Sheriff Pusser sped off.
He wanted to get away from the shooter. He goes
about two miles down the road is check it on
Pauline when shockingly, they are ambushed a second time. In
this attack, Pauline was killed and Sheriff Pusser suffered a
(00:55):
massive injury to his jaw on his left side. Sheriff
Pusser said he was inside the car when he was shot,
so was Pauline. All of this happened about three miles
from the Mississippi state line. Last weekend, I got a
chance to drive that same route that Sheriff Pusser took
(01:19):
from his home to both ambush sites. This was a
law enforcement tour that Mike Elam had set up. He
had officers from Alabama, Kentucky, Georgia, Tennessee, and Mississippi. He
had folks from the Sheriff's office greet us, as well
as folks that were there at the ambush site when
(01:41):
it happened. They were some of the first people own seen.
One of the invited guests that is with us tonight
is a dedicated first responder, a critical care paramedic, a
trained death investigator. He's an American Board certified death investigator,
(02:02):
and he trained the prestigious New York City Death Investigator's course.
That course includes advanced technology and blood stained pattern analysis.
He was Tennessee's first chief death investigator. He is a
forensic investigator for the Forensic Medical Management of Nashville. He
(02:23):
currently teaches infant death investigations for Middle Tennessee State University
and most recently joined the newly formed cold case team
within the Sheriff's Department. He's been married since in nineteen
eighty five, has two adult children and two grandsons. Please
(02:43):
help me welcome Danny Couples to his own seven.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Hey buddy, Hey Cheryl, how you doing. That's so glad
to be on here.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I tell you I've been looking so forward to this
ever since we met. Right there in person in front
of the courthouse in mid Nairy County. And I'll tell
you, you know, I didn't know you were going to be there.
I didn't know our good buddy, you know, Jason White,
he didn't tell he the one of us, you know,
he was supposed to be there. But we found each
(03:13):
other anyhow, And I am so glad.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I am too, so shocked to see you when I
you know, I walked around the edge of the bus
and there you stood. Uh uh, you know, I can
I can tell you the actual of the days before
that that happened is really it's really funny in a way.
But I was actually in a cold case investigation meeting
(03:37):
and my the homicide detective that I worked under, saw
that podcast that you and Jason were on, what a
couple of weeks ago, and he saw that book that
you showed about cold cases. He was going on vacation,
and he thought, man, I would love to have that
book so that I, you know, do a little reading
(03:58):
on the beach, you know. And uh, and I said, well,
I've got a few connections. Let me let me call
my buddy Jason and see if he can if he
has a copy or he knows how I can get one.
So I called him, he called, I texted him. He
called me right away, and uh, he said, you know,
I don't know. Let me help you look. And we
got on you know, the sites, and tried to find one.
(04:21):
He couldn't find one. He said, I'll tell you what.
I'll just get you her email address and you can
email her. Maybe maybe she'll respond and you can get
one that way. And uh, I said, that's that's great. Now. Now,
Jason was supposed to meet me here in Tennessee and
we were supposed to go down there that morning, but
there's a lot of things happened in his area and
(04:43):
he wasn't able to go. So you know, we all
we knew that right away. So anyway, still couldn't find it.
And I kind of gave up. And I went down
that morning to meet with with Mike Elam and Dennis
Hathcock and and and that's where it was, around the
edge of the bus and there you stood, is that
(05:07):
Cheryl McCollum. No, that's somebody from mcneryka And no, no,
it is her. And I was just like blown away.
I'm just like an excited puppy or something. You can
probably tell when I went up to you and I said,
I just can't believe it. And that's when I did
like a little selfie and sent back to Jason and
it's just like, why didn't you tell me she was
(05:29):
coming when she was going to be here? And he's like, well,
I thought I did, No, you didn't.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
It was wonderful. And I'll tell you every single person
in law enforcement that Mike had there was just exceptional,
such great insights, such great questions. It just enhanced being
on those you know, landmark sites with all of you.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I absolutely did you have. We had officers from everywhere,
police that I met that wanted to come and weren't
able to. If everybody would have been there on the
law enforcement side, they that could have come that was
supposed to, it would have been fifty or sixty cars
of law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And you know, people are divided on this thing, and
there's some people that are such Beauford fans that the
idea that they have even exhumed Pauline angers them. And
something happened that morning to our tour bus. Tell everybody
what happened. Even before we got started.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, I met Dennis Hathcock, who was taking care of
the bus that morning, and I believe that bus is his.
He got it all marked up. The Truth has no
agenda on the side of it. And I got there
a little early and I met him at a gas station.
We talked, chatted for a little bit, and came back
(06:57):
to the courthouse, went down into the basement of the
courthouse where another sort of museum is set up about
be for Pusser. And we were down there talking. This
guy walks in and we thought he was just kidding
at first. He said, Hey, what about that hole in
your back window. I was, yeah, right, okay. He said, no, really,
(07:19):
there's a hole in your back window of the tour bus.
Oh yeah, okay. So then we could tell he was
serious then, you know, And so we all got up
went out there, and there was You saw it. It
was a whole bout the size of a baseball assume,
And I didn't. I never saw it whenever I first
(07:40):
started looking at because I was looking at the bus,
I was pretty in my age. And how he got
it set up, you know, and uh with a you know,
Truth has no agenda tours and it looked I thought
it looked pretty cool. And how I missed that hole
in the back window. I'll never know. And of course
we get in there and look around and have the
police come and they did an investigation and actually looked
(08:03):
at video surveillance to find out that it did not
happen at the courthouse, happened somewhere else. But yeah, that
was kind of wild. It started out wild, for sure,
we did.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
And you know, people have asked me why exum her
after fifty years and when I tell them Hauline never
had an autopsy, was never done. And you know, to me,
that's one of those things where let's get some answers
definitively one way or the other. For example, how many
(08:35):
times was she shot? We'll know that. We'll know it.
The trajectory, the entrance wound, the exit wound, will know it.
And do those things line up with Sheriff Pusser's story.
It's going to be yes or no. But there's your
answer and we can move from there instead of just
having all these questions lingering. There's no reason to do that,
(09:00):
right right exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
That's how you want to know the truth. This is
one way to do it, no matter what side you're on.
Now you know, as you know, I'm from that area.
And my name is Halthcock. That's my mother's name. And
you know, my grandmother was murdered there during that time,
during this time of Beauford being shared. It had nothing
(09:22):
to do with Beauford as far as we know. But anyway,
and I've had people come to me, well, you're doing
this because you're half cocked name. No, I'm not doing
it because of my half cock name. I'm doing it
because for justice for the innocent and the innocent or
the dead. And that's why I'm doing it.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
That's right. Because Paul Lane's case is a cold case.
Nobody's ever been arrested or convicted for her murder, never have.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And it's not too cause we just saw a fifty
year old case in our department and it can be solved.
And again, let the evidence produce the truth. An autopsy
will do that, just like you said. It'll show the
true dectory, how many times was she really shot, and
(10:11):
maybe even other ones that may not even be related.
There's so much that an autopsy will show.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
And that's one thing. If there was a fight on
the inside of that car or at their home, does
she have a broken pinky? Does she have a broken
nose is an orbital bone broken? Those are the kind
of things we want to know. Look at her hands,
look at her shoulders, look at her back, look at
her head. All of those things are going to be
(10:39):
just critical to move forward in one direction really other?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Right? Ha, howodbom? I mean, there's so much I don't know.
If you remember Medgar Evers story, exhumed his body after
how many years was it it was or sixty And
when they opened him up and opened that from that
casket and looked, it was jaw dropping. And from what
I understand, this was the same way. That's as far
(11:07):
into the endto what I know that I can tell,
but I will say it was jaw dropping as well.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
And you know, I think again, if you look through
here's the story. Here are the crime scene photographs. This
is the result from the autopsy. Those three things should
line up. It should make sense to everybody. Now, I'm
going to tell you there's some things in the crime
scene photographs that don't add up for me, and I
(11:36):
want you and I just talk about the first one
right now. I don't want to wait any longer. There
is blood spatter on the hood of the car that
looks to me like high velocity, right.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Are you ready for me to answer that one? That
hood of that car is really Mike Elom called me
it's been a while now and asked me to look
at all those photographs, and that's what we have as photographs,
and that one picture really told Just that one picture
(12:09):
tells tells a lot of story of what happened, especially
compared to the actual what Beiefford said happened. The blood
spatter was on the I don't have the picture in
front of me. I'm going by memory. The blood spatter
(12:29):
was on the front of the car, the hood on
the more towards the passenger's side, going from the front
of the car towards the windshield, and that was the
direction that the blood spatter was traveling at a high
velocity speed as it as it something happened in standing
(12:53):
in the front of that car, not driving down the road.
Because you know as well, I mean, you know blood
stained pattern analysis. You've been to those trainings. You know
when a droplet of blood strikes an object, that droplet
of blood shape will tell you the story of where
(13:13):
it comes from.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Now, let me paint a picture of everybody. The hood
of the car like color, so you can see the
blood pretty clear that it's high velocity, little tiny. The
windshield is intact. There is a bullet hole on the
left hand side, passenger side, near you know, the frame
(13:38):
toward the street. It looks to me like a bullet
hole in the hood of the car. The windshield wiper
is also intact, so right off the gate. You know,
this did not come from inside the car. You know,
it didn't come from the back. You know, it didn't
come from either side. That person had to be standing
(14:00):
in the front of that car to get that spatter
where it was. The other thing that's curious to me,
Sheriff Pusser says he was in the car driving after
Pauline was shot. She was laying in his lap. Her
head was in his lap. If you look at the
(14:21):
crime scene photograph of the inside of the car, it
looks like there's two drops of blood right where the
driver would be seated. I don't know how that happens.
There should be like a large pool of blood there
that would be obvious to me, right. I don't know
if somebody pulled her up first and then got him
(14:42):
out of the car, and maybe he kind of had
his head kind of stealing the car, sliding out, and
there was drops of blood. That just it looks odd
to me. It doesn't look like that fits from the
massive wound that he had where his jaw was blown off.
Half her head is blown off. There should be just
pools and pools of blood where her head was on
(15:04):
the door frame, where her head was in his lap.
Tell me what you think of that.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
From what I read through Elian's book and through actual
evidences that he said, he never got out of the car.
He put one foot, he put his left foot down
as if he was going to get out of the car,
and then the ambush the assailants pulled up. But anyway,
(15:36):
if he didn't get up and get out, there would
not be any blood at all where he was sitting.
He would be a void spot completely there. And it's not.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And there's no void pattern anywhere near the hood of
the car.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Either none, not at all, not where someone may have
been or an object may have been in the way
of the spatter, which would because avoid I want to
make this statement. I'm actually at a good friend of
mine who is also a retired homicide detective's house, and
I was talking to him this morning, I said, what
if you had this same call, this same scene, and
(16:18):
if it wasn't me for Puster, if it is some
stranger and we don't know anybody about you would look
you would look at this the same way we are doing. Now.
You know we're we're not on this side, We're not
on that side. We're on finding the truth and the
evidence tells the truth, especially when there is one story
(16:40):
that you can compare to, and we do have that
in this in this instance, you want to, I would
love to talk about the blood on the door.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I was just getting there. Go right on.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I've been I've been doing this a long time, and
I've worked a lot occasions, not as many as you have,
but a lot a lot of by cases. And you know,
we talked about void avoid areas a little bit ago,
and that means something is in the way from blood
reaching that area of that object. On that door. There
(17:15):
is a void spot the size of someone's face ahead
on that door, near the lock. As if. Now, if
I didn't know anything about what the store or anybody's store,
I would say, if someone showed me this picture and
tell me what you think, here's what I would say,
(17:35):
but not knowing anything about anybody's door, is that there
was an object. Probably if the person in there, their
head would be placed on that door and in they
would be shot at that at that position. And the
way the blood is, the blood is not a high
(17:57):
velocity tipe spatter. It's more of a pouring out of
the body. You know when the bodies when when you
get injured, your your your venus blood and your arterial
more more venus. You you kind of pour a pours
out and it looks like that is what happened. Is
(18:19):
so whatever happened was probably shot. I'm gonna say, from
my opinion, I think she was probably shot in the
back of the head and the blood poured down the
inside of the car, leaving that void spot. What do
you say, the same thing, Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I do. But there's one thing I want you to
answer for me. Looking at the car, there's also some
drops of blood on the back passenger's door, and they're
dripping straight down, not at an angle like he's driving, not
like they're smeared that somebody you know, touched it and
(18:57):
was moving, just drops a bod How do you think
that occurred?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, you know it didn't occur while he's driving down
the road. That's impossible. We know, blood tells us that
blood spatter, going back to our blood spatter analysis training,
blood tells us that that didn't happen driving down the road. Right.
In my opinion, I mean, by my expert opinion from
our training, is that someone was on that side of
(19:29):
the car, outside of the car when that happened, when
that droplet fell. Who it came from, you know, I
don't know, but I know it didn't happen. Well, he's
driving down the road being changed.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
No question, the car shot up. I think the car
shot eleven times. They found fourteen shell cases. You know,
with a long barrel rifle, if you pull right beside somebody,
I don't know how you missed three times. So that's
kind of curious to me. It's curious to me that
Beeft said at some point he reached out and grabbed
(20:05):
the barrel of the gun. Now, if they had shot
fourteen times, that barrel is going to be hot as fire.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
It's gonna burn his hand, and uh, you know I
would be you know, I don't know if we brought
this up, but Tennessee Bureau of Investigations from what I understand,
done a phenomenal job. They I believe they had some
grant money to help get this done, but they did.
They went all out and and you've been a detective
(20:38):
understand that. You know you have to go to the
hospital and get records at times. And maybe maybe they
got medical records that shows if he had burn injuries
on his hand. Maybe that's something I don't know and
haven't seen yet. But I do know that TBI did
(20:58):
a phenomenal job with this investigation. They went above and
beyond on this and they looked at things just like
we are we are talking about with the factories from
like if somebody pulled up the side of the long gun,
which direction with even less it was a long gun,
(21:19):
which direction of the projectile, if it did hit pauland
if it did even if it hit a pusser like
he says, on the left side of the jaw with
a high powered rifle. I know what a high powered
rifle does to a face. I've seen it a number
(21:42):
of times. But that just that just doesn't add up
to me.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Well, they said they found fourteen spent shellcases that were
thirty caliber cartridges.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Thirty caliber, Yeah, that's a that's a big gun.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And here's the deal. You're not going to fire that
weapon from inside the assailant's car. It would blow your
ear drums out, So they're gonna hang out the window.
That's gonna give you even a closer shot. If that
barrel is you know, twelve inches, then you're even closer
to the victim exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Do you remember how narrow that road was the other day?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yes, because you know what I thought about the left
hand side of the road, that's the way it was.
That is unchanged now. The right side has houses now,
but it didn't then. So I tried to visualize both
sides of the roads looked just like that tree lined.
The trees were right up on the road. There was
(22:39):
very little.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Give, almost giving it a tunnel effect in a cent.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Correct, great, great analogy. Yes, it was like a tunnel.
And y'all listen. Beford, his dad was the jailer, and
he tried to make sure that Buford got sleep. From
about two am to six am. During those four hours,
he took every call. This particular call, when it came in,
(23:06):
the caller insisted that Beauford answered the call personally, and
it was around three o'clock in the morning. Beauford does
not call out on the radio until six point twenty,
so there was an awful lot of time that's left
unaccounted for now. He is severely injured. He could have
(23:26):
passed out. He could have not been able to speak
for a long time because of his injury. The chief
of police that heard the radio call said he could
barely understand him, but did get enough information to think
he knew about where they were. Some passer buyers came by.
One of them drove the tour van for us. Mister
(23:49):
Hathcock was there on his motorcycle. He's the one that
found part of Pauline's skull, So we got an eye
witness that's telling us what he saw once he got there,
and both victims were in the car. Both Sheriff Pusser
and Pauline were in the car. So again, I don't
(24:10):
know how you explain the spatter on the hood of
the car. Now, I want to be real clear about
one thing. That hood of that car would have been hot,
and that can change the shape of blood drops, but
not as much would be changed that we can't determine
what we're seeing. It's still clear that it's high velocity.
(24:32):
It's still clear that somebody had to be in the
front of that car. Now, Danny, they were found about
a mile north of the Tennessee Mississippi line on US
forty five. Now that is critical because of the state line.
Mob talk a little bit about the Dixie Mafia.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
So all I've got is hearsay. I'll be honest, even
my family hearsay. And I've even discovered that some of
it was not true. But from what the story says
that on the Mississippi Tennessee line, supposedly there were establishments
that had gambling and bootlegging and things like that going on,
(25:19):
and that's where a lot of this is focused on.
And from what Elm has pulled up and what I
pulled up later, a lot of that just wasn't as true,
especially as what came from the movie.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
You know, the Dixie Mafia is a real thing, and
they're a loosely organized criminal organization. It's kind of like
each criminal is the head of their own deal, but
they can come together as one if they need to
for certain things. So for example, if I wanted to
(25:52):
rob a bank, Danny could get me a stolen car
and then Mike could get us a tag. So I
use other people to help facilitate my enterprise. So one
person might make the moonshine, another person's going to run it,
another person's going to sell it, that sort of thing.
So they're loosely based. Everybody kind of makes money. But
(26:14):
they were a dangerous group.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Definitely was. And from what I was told. You know,
my mother wrote one of her last letters, as she wrote, Now,
I found this not to be true, but in her
but she believed this. She said that one of the
last things in her letter was that my mother was
killed by the State Line mob. And I believe she
believed that. I really do. And that is a real thing.
(26:39):
I mean, it was real. But was it real compared
to what the movie said? You know, I don't think
there was a single establishment ever documented being closed down
like it was told.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Well, have you ever heard of two ambushes in one event?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I saw it on a movie once called Walking Talk.
That's about it.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
That's about it.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, that's the first time I've ever heard of that.
You know, it seemed like if you you ambush the
first time you get out of there, you know, even
in the New York stuff, that you that you read
about and see all the time. I mean, it doesn't
it happens, it GE's gone. But this is the first
time for me, I've ever even heard about it.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
And you know, again, looking at the crime scene photographs,
you see a holster on the front seat of the car.
It looks empty. Now it's not a great photograph, it's
not super clear, but it looks empty. I mean, did
Sheriff puss or not get one shot off? Where was
his gun? And if he had a gun in his hand,
how did he grab the barrel of the you know,
(27:54):
the other weapon Because you know, again you're talking about
a weapon if they're accurate, and what they thought they saw,
whether it's a you know, an AR or an M
one whatever, they're saying, that's a long barrel rifle and
you know that, car bean, that's a dead accurate weapon,
(28:15):
dead accurate, and especially if you're side by side in
a car. And I just don't know how there wasn't
more damage to him. And I am not saying he
was not severely injured. He was, But when they say,
you know, his whole chin was off, well, I mean
the photographs show that it wasn't a huge gaping hole, absolutely,
(28:39):
but I believe at just a few feet it would
have blown his face off.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
You know, Cheryl, as a as a crime scene investigator,
a law enforcement officer, per se was ambushed and they
left the same wood, would it not as a law
enforce horseman officer have a weapon and grab it and
have it out ready for the next ambush site in
(29:06):
his hand, ready to shoot. That's what I would think,
That's what I would see.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
That's right. And Buford was left handed. He could have
shot out that winda while driving with his right hand.
It doesn't seem like that was done. And here's the
other thing. You have a law enforcement officer that is
ambushed and his wife is killed. Now, this was a
man that doled out justice, street justice as anybody ever
(29:34):
in the purest sense. I mean, they just went around
busting heads in that county. You're telling me nobody was
ever arrested, nobody was ever brought in and questioned, nobody
was ever beat, not one person. That doesn't sound like
Sheriff Pusser to me. Right there.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
It makes no sense at all to me either, not
at all. Nothing about this whole ambush makes sense. And
anybody that does think that is what he said, hasn't
looked at the evidence and hasn't looked at it as
we have, and maybe hasn't wrote that ambush side as
we did. But it's right in front of the evidence
(30:19):
is there. It's not what it was told.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And you know, Mike Elam in twenty twenty three gave
TBI a tip about that very weapon that belonged to
Sheriff Usser. They thought they had enough information to then
February of twenty twenty four, exum her Now, I'm going
(30:43):
to tell you all the results are in. They are
under seal. But DA Mark Davison hasn't he knows the results.
I don't know why there is such a delay in
providing the answer.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I don't either. I can guess. You know, there has
been a lot of things going on in that district
for that district attorney. He has had a lot of
on his play and this is a very high profile
case that's going to make a large impact on a
lot of people and the community itself. And I'm assuming
(31:21):
that he's making a decision and deciding when the appropriate
time to release that information. That's my opinion. That's why
it's taking so long.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
And y'all, here's the bottom line. They still have the car,
so they can do trajectory today. They can put rods
in that car right now. And again, if you'vever being six',
Six pauline was little. Empathy the, injuries they can line them.
Up does this match the? Story does this match the
(31:58):
injuries to the? Car you, know was the person that's
shot in front of the car standing or bent? Over
Was buford tucked down like he says he got in the.
FLOORBOARD i don't know how a man sixty, six two
hundred pounds gets in the floorboard of that, car but
that's what that's what he said. Happened and When pauline
(32:19):
is shot from what side is she? Shot they, again
with this, autopsy are going to be able to look
for broken, bones. Bruising they're gonna check, arms, hands, legs her,
back the number of bullet, wounds the, trajectory the entry
and exit, wounds void. Patterns they're going to look for
all of, it every bit of it.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Right and they'll find. It they'll have an answer and
they'll you, know they're not. Biased this is a law
enforcement agency that's done a phenomenal. Job and again that's
AS edom, said you, know the truth has no, agenda
and that will be told very.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Soon and you, know it's interesting because some people have asked, me,
well why in the world would the sheriff take his wife.
Along the story that was told was they were leaving
for vacation later that day to go To. Florida And pauline,
knew you, know the sheriff well enough to know if
(33:17):
he got out there at some, dispute that he would
be out there a couple, hours then go to the
jail and hang out and socialize for a couple. Hours
and she didn't want to be late leaving For, florida
so she went with him to keep him on. Task
whether that's true or, NOT i don't, know but that's
the way it's been. Told we know she was in the.
Car we know other people have said they were having,
(33:39):
trouble that there was luggage, packed but that's because she
was leaving the. Sheriff, again this is why the autopsy
is so critical to.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Me it's just the story that we've heard from my
witnesses is that that's the story of him from them
going on vacation doesn't add up to witness. Statements witness
statements say that they were actually separated and she was
living in a hotel and she was planning an escape per.
Se And i've been told by people down there that
(34:13):
she would never ride with him in the first. Place
people that are my family and friends that's lived there
their whole lives and was there during that, time said
that she would never ride in the car with. Him
she was terrified to ride with him.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Because he drove fast as. Lightning everywhere he.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Went everywhere he, went he drove. Fast and that's ultimately
that cost him his.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Life it, did and that is another. Reason on That
New Hope, road if you're standing where they say that
the sniper was, standing it would be, IMPOSSIBLE i, think
to see that car coming at one hundred miles an
hour and get the shots off that they.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Did it can't be. Done there's no way it could.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Happen, well there's one more thing about. MOTIVE i want
to go back To Dixie mafia for a, minute Because
Carl Douglas, WHITE i know him As Towhead. White he
was active In, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee. Mississippi he was part
of The Dixie. Mafia, well he had a common law, Wife,
(35:21):
louise And beauford Killed. Louise now to, me that's. Motive
you got motive right there to retaliate for your.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Woman, absolutely and you. Do and you, KNOW i Think
beeford tried afterwards to lay that On Towhead white as
being one of the shooters from the, ambush.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
That's, right and never ever made any kind of. Arrest
And louise's last name was Also. Halfcock so we're back
to that family. Tree and y'all the reason the state
line at that time was the perfect playground for. Criminals
if you're In tennessee and you cross Into, mississippi the
(36:11):
law had to. Stop they couldn't chase you, anymore wasn't their.
Jurisdiction so if you had a steal just inside Of,
tennessee all you had to do was run less than
a mile and you were a free. Man and so,
again Where buford wound up made. Sense it's a law
enforcement you. Know his car being riddled with bullets made.
(36:32):
Sense that looked like an. Ambush the place that had
happened made. Sense it all made. Sense where it doesn't
make sense is the, blood the empty, holster the drops
on the back passenger, side the hood of the car
and that nobody was ever.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Charged right tooth other, Things, cheryl that that doesn't make.
Sense it does not add. Up is time time, frame
this time from two thirty to forty. Five what happened
during that? Time you, know it don't even takes ten
minutes to get from their house where the ambush. Happened
(37:12):
what happened in that two hours and forty five, minutes it's.
Gone that's nobody can can say what happened during that.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yep because even if he did lose consciousness for a little,
bit that's an awful long.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Time.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah regarding the movie With Joe Don baker walking, tall
there's some things even his deputies have said wasn't. Accurate
the fact that he walked around with a big. Stick
they said he didn't do that every.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Day he'd grabbed a fence posed one. Time and that's
that's kind of where the movie production took. It, sure
they thought it would really look good if if a
law man used a stick instead of a. Gun you,
Know i've had people come up to me and, says
please please help take him down because he was such
an evil. Man and you, Know i'm just going by
(37:58):
what my family has told me and friends you know
from there that grew up, there that not somebody that watched.
IT i loved the, Movie don't get me. WRONG i
thought it was a cool movie growing, up and until
AS i got OLDER i understood that there's nothing like
what really. Happened but it was a good. Movie it
brought a lot of people into law.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Enforcement and you, know he could be a generous. Man
he believed in second. Chances but from everything That i've
heard from people in town and his own, deputies don't cross, him.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Right he was a big. Man he was a big.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Man, Well, DANNY i will have you back when we
get the answers and we will break it all. Down
BUT i just adored meeting you in. Person it just
made the trip so much more. Incredible and it was already.
Fantastic BUT i want to mention one other. Thing if
you don't, mind you invented, something and to, me it
(38:57):
is one of the most ingenious kind of right there
in your, Face, like how in the world have we
not thought about this? Before so anybody that has ever
had an emergency inside their, house whether it's medical or
fire or whatever it might, be and you live in
a situation maybe all the houses are close together and
(39:19):
kind of looked the, same like a condominium or your
way out in the middle of, nowhere and they can't
hardly see your house from the. Road tell them what you, Invented.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Denny, well actually it was my best friend that actually invented,
it and he was on a call where it was
a child in cardiac. Arrest they inputting their information into
THEIR gps went. Out long story, short they took that
information and ended up on the side of the road
(39:47):
with no houses or no house, numbers no. Mailboxes they
drove down another couple of, miles found that mailboxes turned
right up into the driveway with no house numbers to
find finally find the. House it added about five or
six minutes to the, call and ultimately the child. Died
he came to me just like weeks later and he,
(40:09):
said this is really this cause really haunted. Me i've
got an idea that would really. Help and he told
me about the locator. Bulb he, said what if we
had a bulb that goes that you can replace your
regular light on the front of your house with this.
Bulb it'll work just like a regular light until you
need it for a beacon for first, responders you, know he,
(40:32):
said we can put an app on your. Phone you
can hit it on your app and it'll activate it
when something. Happens, otherwise you can use it every day
as a regular. LIGHT i told him that was a fantastic.
Idea we went to, work we got double patent on,
it and it took a few. Years when you, activated
(40:53):
it turns, white red and, blue, red white and blue
in a flashing, pattern and it alerts us as for
responders to your. Location we got a call recently out
Of florida that has said it helped save a child's
life after you, know it started that way and now
it's saved a child's.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Life, Well Danny, couples thank, you thank, you thank. You
And i'm going to End zone seven the way THAT
i always do with a. QUOTE i will answer all. Calls, sheriff, you.
Professor I'm cheryl, McCollum and this is only seven
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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