The Anatomy of a Cold Case: Re-examining the Murder of Ann Ledger with The Investigators Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We became partners on the crisis response team in nineteen
ninety four in preparation for the nineteen ninety six Olympic
Games in Atlanta. By as we call her, was twice married,
had grown children, and was solid in her career. I
was single ish while it was still around. But we
weren't married. We'd never been married, and we had no children.

(00:32):
They was sixteen years older than me. We were opposites
in many ways, but we were alike in the ways
that mattered the most, our family fighting for justice, being
advocates for victims. But still with that age gap and
where we were in life and our careers. We weren't
obvious friends, but that partnership worked. We balanced each other,

(00:58):
We respected each other, We had a great time with
each other. We laughed ninety percent of the time and
worked about ten We worked things like the Adamsville slay
in Nicole Smith, the Shotgun House double Murder, the Olympics,
and Nine to eleven. Our guests today know a little

(01:19):
bit about partnership, and they Shorelord know about laughing. They
came from different careers, both good ones, solid ones. One
is a reporter, one is a detective. Now historically they
have not always trusted each other. That first amendment can
be challenging sometimes law enforcement sometimes they don't want things leaked,

(01:42):
they don't want information out, and sometimes that reporter wants
to be the first one to tell people information. Today,
we've got two of the best, Jessica Nole and Todd mccombas.
They are not your typical weekly true crime podcast. They
are friends. You can tell it from the second they

(02:03):
start talking. They balance each other, they play off each other,
they laugh, but when they go to work, it's like
nothing you've ever seen. So this is what happens when
you pair an award winning investigative journalist and a veteran
detective slash comedian. You heard me. Now, I've worked with

(02:25):
tons of detectives that thought they were comedians, but Todd
is a real one. Jessica and Todd, welcome to Zone seven.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Thank you, Cheryl. We're so excited to be here.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, now we need to change our podcast description to
verbatim what you just said. That was remarkable. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Well, it's the truth. And here's the thing. Some people say, well,
you know, if you have podcasters on your show, are
you really working a case? Well, we're going to get
to that in a minute. But the short answer is yes.
You know, the title that somebody has has nothing to
do with whether or not they can solve a cold case.
And I preach all the time, civilians solve cold cases

(03:07):
all the time. The person that found the card for
the DC Sniper was a truck driver. The person that
solved the Zodiac puzzle was a teacher. So yeah, they
are in my zone, Saven. I promise you they can
solve a case like nobody else. So look, I want
to go right off the bat and get y'all to

(03:29):
talk about y'all's teamwork, because it is so incredible to
hear y'all when y'all are just doing your natural banter
but at the same time knowing you're funneling through a case.
I've never had a negative experience or partnership with anybody
in the media, whether it's Jessica Nole or Karen Greer, whoever.
They have always been tremendous people to me and a

(03:52):
great tool, especially for cold cases. Our worlds, todd are
not that different. Jessica's got confidential in fully mors, She's
got people she can call for a favor. She knows
exactly how to ask which question and when and how right.
She's such a gift for you and you are a
gift for her on these cases. But again it's not

(04:16):
like we don't have a baseline of understanding. That to
me is fun to watch with y'all too, because she's
got a phone that has got a goal mine in it,
and so to you. So you know those people that
y'all can reach and those favors you can call in,
and then Jessica knows how to find this person that
may not talk to you, And that I preach all

(04:38):
the time to young detectives. Karen Greer can get somebody
to go on camera and make a statement that will
not go talk to that detective, but the detective can
watch the six o'clock news and hear it.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
That's actually something I do want to point out with
the partnership with Todd, is, you know, working as a
journalist a lot most tis I'm working solo. But it's
been so great to be able to be like, all right,
we need to contact this person. Is it going to
be better coming from a retired detective or is it
going to become better from a journalist? Is a door

(05:14):
knock going to be better with a guy that looks,
you know, like he's the muscle of the group. Or
is it going to look better if it's this short,
little blonde that's unassuming and you don't have any problems,
you know, seeing that, you're like, oh, she's not going
to you know, harm me in any way or ask
me tough questions. So we've been able to play off
of each other to where whatever we think is going

(05:37):
to work best to get the information that we need
for the case. That's the avenue we go.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
And you see that a lot.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
I think, in especially towards the end of Undetermined, we
started to really hone in on that.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
The other reality is you've got some news organizations that
have equipment that some police departments don't have. Not every
police department's got a helicopter over police department's got drones.
So if you can tap into those as friends and say, look,
we've got a missing child, can you help us, that
to me is critical in those partnerships and those friendships

(06:13):
if you make them are great. Here's the other reality.
I don't have six weeks that I can go and
find a paper trail and look through old archives and
look through old newspapers. But Jessica can and she can
get that information and tell me, wait a minute, this
is what he said in nineteen eighty seven, this is
what he said in nineteen ninety four, and that is

(06:35):
very different from what he said in twenty thirteen. And
I just might go, hey, that's really great work. So
when something breaks, who am I going to call first
to let have the scoop? I'm gonna let Jessica have it.
But she brought me something that might change this whole thing.
So and the other thing is, y'all can travel a
lot of times. Your chief is not going to let

(06:56):
you go to Luluisi to interview somebody and then say, well, hey,
I got to go to Boston. It's not gonna happen.
But Jessica can go talking go yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
I couldn't agree more like I first of all, I
never wanted to make enemies, definitely with anybody in the
media when I was a detective, because you don't need that.
But I just never had any bad experiences, Like I
understood the concepts of be careful, you know, like you
could cross an unethical journalist at some point or a

(07:26):
broadcaster of some sort, and they might tell you it's
off the record, and then screw you later. But that
never happened to me, and until it did, I was like,
I'm going to give everybody the benefit of the doubt
because I always treated it like we're on the same team. Like, yeah,
you're trying to get ratings in views and things like that,

(07:47):
because that helps you keep your job and improve your status.
But also, you wouldn't be taking this job if you
didn't care about victims and the outcomes of these cases.
Because much like you're not going to get rich doing
what you're doing, you're in it because of the passion
behind what you're doing and the good that you're doing

(08:08):
for your community and the people involved. So there was
always that mutual respect for.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Me one hundred percent. Get in touch with Jesk if
you can, I'm just telling you. And now that she's
got Todd, well, let me just say this, Todd, you
bring this grit to you know of understanding from street level,
that pulse of the gutter, and you're a revered detective.

(08:34):
But the thing that I appreciate I think the most
about you is your humor. But you know there's truth
in humor, and you bring such a real concept. There's
a lot of folks that when they start talking about
their career, they only talk about, well, this is when
I got this metal and this is when I got

(08:54):
this accolade. Not you, brother, you got God and country.
To listen to an episode of When You Lost a weapon.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
That's what I Oh, my god, I have never laughed
so hard in my life, And I thought, this has
got to be the most self assured man I've ever
listened to in my life because he's telling you something
that he ain't gonna get a medal for.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
But it just helps everybody to go, wait a minute,
we all might have a hiccuugh, we might all do
something that is so incredibly human that it's just nice
to hear so again, having that balance to me, having
that I'm real, I'm a person. I was there doing

(09:43):
something brave and just you know, I was the man
in that moment of all the people that are fearless
behind me, I'm the one that's gonna kick that door
in tell everybody what happened to talk.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Let me add that, uh, that wasn't the only time
I've lost a gun, but it's the most entertaining story.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
He was telling me. A second story, and I said, Tod,
did you have a holster?

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Because I was understanding this.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
I mean, hey, Jessica, yeah that wasn't our job, you know,
far being for us to question, but did you have
a hole? That was hilarious.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
It's so strange because I ended my career on this. Basically,
we were a mini swat team, you know, that just
hunted down fugitives with our little four person team. And
you know, we we had all the SWAT credentials and
training and kick doors and all that. But up to
that point, I mean I always worked in for most
of my career, in covert investigations, undercover and things like that,

(10:51):
and most times I wasn't carrying a gun, so I
got kind of used to, you know, not like your
regular cop, like always having a gun on me and
where this and all that. Oh yeah, occasionally I might,
you know, when I'm putting other stuff in my car,
put it on the hood of my car and drive
fifty miles down the road. But in this one particular incident,

(11:11):
I you know, I'd worked like nineteen years up to
that point, and I'm on this little Fugitive Test Force
swat team thing, and I had always kind of admired
people that wore an ankle gun, like in movies and stuff,
you know, you'd see that, And I was like, I

(11:32):
should get an ankle gun. Why have I never gotten
an ankle gun? And I finally got one, and I
made the mistake of they didn't have a holster four
of five shot Smith and Wesson thirty eight revolver, which
is what I got to carry on my ankle but
they had one for a three eighty semi automatic in
their similar size, so I thought I was okay. And

(11:53):
when long story short, we go to serve our first
warrant of the day and it was a no knock
on a trailer and I kicked this door, and unfortunately
I had put the ankle gun on my right leg,
which is my kicking leg, and I was the door
kicker that day. And I guess so at some point
going from my car to creeping up on this little

(12:15):
stupid the trailer, that ankle gun had to slodged from
the holster was very loose. It was just kind of
held in there wedge between the holster and the cuff
of my pants. And I didn't know that when I
kicked this door, man, it shot out like a rocket
fla from underneath my pants, and I see, you know,

(12:36):
and I had smashed the trailer doors go really easy anyway,
But I had smashed this trailer door like best kick
of my career. And I see a flash of the
bad guy who has startled when I kicked the door,
run like toward the kitchen, and I see my gun
going right at him, like the right in his direction,
hit his linolium floor and skid. But I had kicked

(12:57):
the door so hard it went back and hit the
wall and bounce back and shut to right in my face.
So I go from seeing that flash of my gun
heading toward this fugitive to the door shutting to my face,
and I'm just panting for a second. I'm stopped to
my sergeant and I had the stack of guys behind
me like go, go go, what are you waiting for? Go?

(13:18):
And finally my Sergeant's like, go get to the door,
and I'm like, just wait, he's got a gun. My
sergeant was like, how do you know it's like because
it's mine. I wish I was creative enough to make
this up. But he was literally laying on the floor

(13:38):
giving up like I was trying to trick him, and
he was like, I'd not falling for your gun across
the floor bullshit. And I was like, oh, all right, thank.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
God, that is the greatest thing I've ever heard. And
you know, that guy was sitting in jail going, you're
not gonna believe this. He just threw his gun at me.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
Look, I'm an idiot. I'm gonna pick it up.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, like I'm an idiot, I ain't falling to that.
That's great. So for all of you that might have
had a bad day at work, there you go and
welcome to my world.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
Right absolutely, And you're right, those are the stories I
like to share because you know, we all had our
good days and bad days. But you know, I'd rather
humanize the job a little bit because everybody has moments
like that at their job where you goof something up
or whatever, and you know, as long as nobody got
hurt at the end of it, you know, it's to

(14:29):
laugh about it afterward and take the ridicule from all
your partners for the next two weeks. It really grounds
you and makes you realize, hey, we're just people out
here trying to get by like everybody else, and dumb
shit's going to happen, and so those are the stories
I like to share instead of going over accolades and

(14:50):
things like that that.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Could be a whole episode by itself. Just give Todd
the mic and let's humanize the job.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Him being undercover for so long as he was has
really been super beneficial. When we're out in the field
investigating something when we were doing well essentially a door knock,
but we didn't have to knock on a door because
he was actually watching us from his truck, And when

(15:18):
we got out of ours, he got out of his
and Todd was able to see things that I didn't see.
So the ballsy Jessica goes up to this guy, like
ready to ask questions, you know, boom boom boom, and
Todd's like pulls me back a little and starts getting
in front of me to ask him questions because he
saw the man put a gun behind him when he

(15:41):
got out of the truck that I didn't see. And
then all of a sudden, Todd, when you hear his voice,
he's Indiana Midwest, but he's not Southern all of a sudden,
because of where we are for this particular encounter breaks
into the southern drawl of a sudden, and I'm just
looking at like, where is this voice coming from. He's like, hey, y'all,

(16:04):
he sounded like you Cheryl's voice, and I'm like, fantastic,
what is happening here? Because you know, we just kind
of tried to fit in with where we were and
it didn't work. We didn't get it, we didn't get
an interview, but we got out of their lives, so
that was good.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Right away. I was like, hey, you know, I like
malicious too. Hey fuck the government.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, that's not a stereotype at all. Okay, that's so funny.
But again, undercover, you got a morph to what the
situation is, and he's got that experience, and again, what
a gift to get you out of there.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
I did have to kind of intervene and talk and
keep talking over her and get between because again, this
girl's fearless. She was like ready to go inside his
house for coffee and get to the bottom of why
he might know about these persons of interest. And now
I was like, you know, we don't want to go
in there. Can we might end up in some little
hole in the backyard chain to a you know, to

(17:07):
an eyebolt For the next several months and uh so, yeah,
sometimes you know it's good, like I feel protective of her.
She doesn't need it most times. But you know, I
was like, Okay, if if this goes bad, you know,
me and this hill billy are going over the side
of this hill.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Oh and by the way, when we got back to
we got back to the truck, I said, Todd, where's
your gun? Because I always make sure that he's packing
when we go do things like this. It was in
the glove compartment, see the worst. Yeah, And I understand
that this makes me sound like I don't have awareness
of my surroundings.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
But I actually really do.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
It's just I was so focused on we got to
talk to this guy and find out what he knows.
And we already knew he had been watching us for
some time, and I'm like, let's do it.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Let's get out there, let's get it.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
And I my blinders completely on. So it's great to
have a partner who can see things that you can't
see too.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
That's an important thing. Like that's a real cop thing, Cheryl.
You'll know this, like when you go win as a
two person unit to first engage somebody, just you know,
an interview or whatever the scenario, one person's the main
talker and the other is basically security. That other person
scanning and always assessing for threats and things like that,

(18:28):
and it's an important dynamic to you know, that's what
keeps everybody safe. And so I always hit that mode.
But that time I was like, Okay, I don't want
her talking, Beau. I'm going to talk right back to
our car as quickly as possible. Let's get out of there.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
You know, it's funny because I tell people all the time,
women sometimes almost naturally focus on certain aspects of a person.
Men don't necessarily do that. But if you have two
people assessing differently, naturally, you're not going to miss anything.
So y'all might leave somewhere and you might say, God,

(19:02):
that was a really nice guy, and Jessica's like, well,
he was completely lying the whole time. Didn't you see
his shoes? And you'll be like, his shoes, Yeah, he
said he was an investment banker, but he had on
fifteen dollars shoes from Walmart. That's never going to happen.
And then he's got a you know, Cassio watch on.
So nothing about him rang true for Jessica, where you

(19:25):
might have just been focused on his face and his
hands to make sure nothing was going to go wrong.
So again, both of those things irrelevant. But y'all, I
think we have got such a rare opportunity having both
of y'all here and talking about y'all's process and talking
about the teamwork that I just want to put in
the universe that we have an idea, the three of us,

(19:46):
and the idea is for the three of us to
pick a case and kind of work on it. And
I picked a case, and I want everybody to hear
me when I say just a little about the case
that I picked. Three of us do not have police reports, photographs,
a family member contact, a witness located. We don't even

(20:10):
know whether or not evidence has been preserved. We don't
know if there's DNA, we don't know if it's had
a chain of custody. Almost zero is on the internet,
and to our knowledge, there's no similar transactions. So I thought, well,
that'd be a pretty good one to test the investigative
skills of these two folks. So when we first talked,

(20:34):
they were game on. They were all about it, as you,
I think can already understand how they are and how
they operate, and now they want to help people and
then tell a really good story. So Jessica, you want
to take it from here and just kind of tell
everybody the case and how we're going to maybe try
to formulate a plan and how we're going to proceed

(20:55):
from here.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
We've decided to look at the murder and raise of
Anne Ledger. This is a cold case from nineteen eighty seven.
She was killed in January of nineteen eighty seven in
Sandy Springs, Georgia, which is your neck of the woods,
but also was where we met. And I worked for

(21:16):
numerous years in journalism working on cold cases, so I'm
familiar with this area. A few things that we know
based off of one news report that you sent us,
and we know that she was found inside her apartment.
She was a special education teacher and a coworker, and
her mom happened upon her because she didn't show up

(21:38):
at work and she was found dead in her own bedroom,
in her bed. She had been raped and strangled the
night before. You know, starting from ground zero on this one.
First things first is, well, Todd and I actually go
with this two different ways, And my first thing is
all right, let's start requesting as much as we can

(22:00):
on this case. You know, we're looking at a thirty
plus year old cold case. Forty years almost The likelihood
that we can get more than just an initial police
report is pretty good sometimes with an older cold case
like this, So I go all out. I will ask
for everything I can think of. I will ask for
the whole case file, including but not limited to, and

(22:23):
start listing everything that I want. We had also found
out initially she had had her apartment broken into a
couple of times prior to her murder.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
And wasn't that a moment where you just kind of
went hold on a minute.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
And the things that were removed from her apartment at
those break ins, certainly we're telling to potential involvement in
her subsequent death. And so I also wanted to request
those case that those reports, because they she had reported them.
So that's where I began, Whereas Todd goes into newspaper

(22:59):
archive mode, which also includes an obituary, which is where
you can find family members that can speak on her behalf,
and start going that direction.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Without going into too many specifics yet, because we're early
on in this thing, we were talked about the importance
of relationships with people in the media from law enforcement
or any kind of investigator perspective sometimes in these cold cases.
And this is what first intrigued me about the case,
because you slyly put that challenge out there, Cheryl, like,

(23:34):
there's nothing that you can google on this case. It's
just it's void of the Internet. And that was true
because the whole time you were talking, I was googling
my ass off over there. So right away, you know,
it's like, challenge it's on. This is going to be fun.
And newspaper archives are an incredible resource and sometimes until

(23:58):
you can get copse of those redacted police reports, or
if you're even fortunate enough to get them, sometimes the
only information that you have to go on are these
media archives, newspaper articles and things like that, because we're
talking nineteen eighty seven, so it predates the Internet, and

(24:20):
we've were fortunate enough to find a lot of things.
And you know, the first thought is, let's get a
layer of the landscape. Let's go to that this time
window and to this part of the world, this specific
area of the country, and let's google some keywords about
this crime and see if that triggers any others that

(24:41):
are like it, and we were able to find some
interesting stuff to start a focused direction for other records requests.
For Jessica.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
You put this request together and I word them very
specifically for a reason, because they can come back with
one word wrong and be like, Nope, we're denying you
and give us, you know, some shoddy reason. But it's
when you get something that's denied that shouldn't be denied
and they try to give you a reason that isn't

(25:20):
within the law of public records, and I have to
go and I had to find the law and the situation,
the and the statute number, and I had to find
all that and put it in a very professional email
and send it back to them to let them know
I too know the law, so give me what I

(25:41):
asked for. I hate to send those emails, and I
will be nice for the first couple, but I will
tell you, you know, I'm working on a couple of
cases right now where I'm to the point where it's
not nice anymore. And and it's like, you know, what
if you're if you're not going to send them to me,
let me know what you're doing on the case, because
I'd love to hear it.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, give me, give me a statement.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
I mean, unfortunately, this is just the way it is.
A lot of these people that you know are the
keeper of these records. They just put you to a
little dance because nine out of ten people will just
stop after they're denied that first time, and they don't
have to do that work. And that's simply the reason.
That's a little inside baseball for those not within law enforcement.

(26:24):
Here's a good example. I've been working on a case
for like three years and it's in my home area,
in my own department, Indiana State Police. I had requested
records on some of those cases, knowing damn well, well,
first of all, a couple of them are adjudicated. So
but there's a statute that the police in Indiana sometimes

(26:46):
hide behind that where the language says it gives them
the discretion to not abide by the Freedom of Information
Act if it in any way involves a criminal investigation.
So it doesn't he if the person's already locked up
and executed, you know, or it just hasn't been worked
in fifty years, they will not send it to you.

(27:09):
And you know, I just don't. I'm a bulldog. I'll
take no for an answer, you know, And it's my
own department, so I just kept firing, you know. And
I did like little justcus trick where I copied the
statute and all this stuff. And uh, one day, I'm
talking to an old academy classmate of mine, one of
my best friends in the department, who's now the major

(27:29):
in charge of all criminal investigations at Indiana State Police.
And I will save this lady's name, but he's like, oh, boy,
someone's so really fucking hate you. I was like really.
I was like, why because I won't take no for
an answer, and he said, yep, that's pretty much. Yet. Boy,
she cusses you up and down on a regular basis.

(27:51):
And I was like, oh, well, okay, there's worse things.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
You know.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
I tell rookies all the time. The First Amendment is
a real thing. And the reporter that you were running
from is going to write that story anyway, Sugar. The
best thing you can do is put yourself in the
best light. Don't give them a reason to say they

(28:15):
won't return our calls, they won't make a statement. You know,
basically they're hiding. Could there be corruption, could they have
done something wrong on the case. Did they screw it up?
Talk to her?

Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's immediately what goes through my mind. What are you
hiding from me?

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Baby? I know you. I know goes through your head.
Why do you think I call you back? But again,
it's the truth. I mean, if you called me and
you said, hey, I heard such and such about what's
going on in this town. You heard anything. I may
say to you, this is off the record, but this
is what I've heard. I don't know if it's true.

(28:53):
Or I may say to you, look, I have heard something,
but I absolutely cannot talk to you. But you might
want to go talk to Fred. Well, then that's up
to Fred. I can, but there's only so much I
can do. And sometimes I may say I cannot talk
to you own or off the record, because you know
my job and I know your job, and that's where
that respect comes from. And that's why I tell people,

(29:15):
if you're on this job, five minutes to start making
friends and with the media. You do that because the
old guard is going to tell you I wouldn't talk
to reporter if it was on my deathbed and it
could lead you to a treasure. Okay, well, you need
to tell somebody, and you need to have some friend
you can go to because you're gonna need the media. Again,
whether it's a lost child or an elderly person that

(29:37):
has dementia. You want people to return your call too
when you need them for that. And especially on cold cases.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
You know, we are not here to hang detectives out
to dry and show a case that they haven't solved this,
which is I think a lot of times sometimes what
hinders them from wanting to give information from that audible
cold kiss.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
That's on our intention at all.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
If you want us to be able to report the
facts as they are and help this case, help give
a voice to the victim and their family members who've
been fighting for decades sometimes to get truth and get justice.
We need those simple things to be able to do that.
And so when we have to, you know, compromise what

(30:24):
we're doing for a case because we don't have full
case files for something, you know, it's a problem. So
you know, and we're not going to be shy on
our podcast for giving super accolades to people who help
us out, but we're also not going to be shy
about letting people know who did not help us out right.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
And look, part of this is at least is.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Podcasts, is you've been worn.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Unfortunately, there are some reckless podcasters out there, especially in
true crime, and there has been some basis for police
to be a little wary because of reckless use of
their power behind that microphone. And I'm just speaking in
terms of like it's easy to make an assumption because

(31:17):
you think that the police should have done this but
they didn't, to just start bashing them, right. But where
I always try to tell police was well, disarm that gun,
talk to them, explain why that thing wasn't done. Now,
Jessica and I will get in front of it because
of our own personal experience and expertise and say, we

(31:40):
don't know if that's why this wasn't done, but here's
a hypothetical reason why it hasn't been done. Or it
wasn't done. That's a justifiable reason and a decent reason
for having not done that. But you can control that
narrative if you're the police, and you can go on there,
because listen, you're a grown person, you're an adult. You

(32:01):
can control yourself what you answer and what you don't
and how you answer it, and if you make yourself
available and I'm saying you got to do it to
every you know, podcaster that approaches you. But you know,
if you screen it a little bit and you feel like, Okay,
this person you know is credible and they do their
job very well, give them twenty minutes and feel free

(32:26):
to say, you know, I can't speak to that because
that's sensitive information to the case. But also you're going
to get an opportunity to answer that question why wasn't
this done or why haven't you done this yet? And
sometimes that may be what we have. I just can't
tell you the particulars on it, and we've not released
that for public knowledge. Boom, you just took all those

(32:48):
bullets out of the gun. And when you don't, you're
just leaving yourself open to these pop shots.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
You know, we interviewed a detective this week for one
of the cases we're working on, and you know, we
have the ability to not only ask questions as a
journalist and ask questions as a former detective, we actually
have the ability to ask questions as a listener. So
we may know the answer to something, why haven't you prosecuted?
You clearly have suspects, Why aren't they in jail? Already,

(33:15):
and we can ask those questions based off of what
we think listeners are going to want to know or
understand better from his point of view, And we were
able to do that with him knowing pretty much what
his answer was going to be because we've been through
the legal system, court system, we know how things work.
You only get one shot at this, you can't you
go back multiple times and try to try the same people.

(33:37):
So it's also a way for I think law enforcement
to help educate the public. It may not just be
about the case itself. Taught to us such a great
job in our episodes where I will ask him something
that I either know the answer to you already or
I don't, but I think it will be so insightful

(33:59):
for the listener to hear his experience and his expertise
on that topic and how he would handle it and why,
because there's so much misinformation right now out there that
I don't want our podcast to just be about humor
or case or the fact. I want it also to
be this I hate to say learning because that sounds stuffy,

(34:22):
but a learning experience enlightening because there are some times
even still that Todd will enlighten me on something that
I did not realize, And so for the listener, I
think that's really key to this, And so for law enforcement,
I hope they'll trust us to present their story within

(34:43):
this story with the respect that we will always give
them if they want to help with the case, and
allow us to help with the case, because that's all
we're trying to do. We certainly do not have any
intention of hindering a case that has not been solved.
All we're trying to do is move the needle. Move

(35:04):
the needle. So if there's stuff you can't talk about,
I one thousand percent get it. There are things that
you can talk about. And being completely closed off to
us or not giving us very very very simple records
that are preliminary records that there's no reason not.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
To, that's just it's counterproductive. It really is, because the
bottom line is you just might be able to help.
And that's again what I preach all the time. Who cares?
Who solves it? Who cares? Who brings you the thing
that's going to crack it open? Who cares? The fact
is that it happened, and we have one less killer

(35:44):
walking amongst us. What we're doing today on Ann Ledger's
case is important. Somebody taught with her, Somebody was her student,
somebody was her neighbor, was her mama's friend at church.
So January sixteenth, nineteen eighty seven, she is killed in

(36:07):
her own apartment. When her mama and coworker get there,
the door is locked. She's found nude. She died by affixiation,
and there were multiple sexual offenders. Multiple Her apartment had
been broken into several times before. The underwear drawer had

(36:33):
been tossed out. The second time she experiences a burglary,
they took her answer machine. Somebody has information about what
happened at fifty six forty three Kingsport Drive. So that's
another reason we're starting with y'all. Y'all right now have

(36:56):
the same information we do. Jessica's doing her Thingdd's doing
his thing. But that's where we are. We are less
than ground zero. So if you have information, reach out
to Jessica, reach out to Todd, reach out to Sandy
Springs Police, reach out to the Fulton County DA, reach
out to me. But tell somebody what you know. It

(37:20):
doesn't matter how small it is, because I promise you
the next time we do an episode with Jessica and Todd.
They are going to have information, and they are going
to have some names, and they may even have already
pushed this needle so far that law enforcement's going to
be able to take action. So right now, I'm going

(37:41):
to give Jessica and Todd the final say of what
they want to say about their podcast or an Ledger's case,
you know, and Ledger's case. Cold.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Cases that are this cold and this old are so
interesting to me and heartbreaking. Every case we cover as
heartbreaking when it's unsolved, even when it is solved, it's
still heartbreaking. Something that has gone on this long with
no answers, with no justice, and deserves better. And it's

(38:15):
cases like these that really get me moving because I
want these answers for her and for her family. They've
lived thirty plus years not knowing what happened to her
and who's responsible. And if we can shed light and
give and a voice back and do anything to move

(38:38):
this case forward, that's what we're going to do. That's
what is the bulldog in both of us. And it's
not just getting case files. It's about learning who Anne was.
It's about learning about her life, not just her death.
So you have to understand who she was, who she

(39:00):
was talking to, her life and living to be able
to understand her death. So I'm eager to dig into
this and to try to find as many answers as
we possibly can on her case.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, it's about stopping monsters. You know, A real life
monster entered Anne's life. A young woman, an educator, someone
who was giving back to her community, gets her life
taken from her, and not just taken from our world.
She was humiliated and violently assaulted, the most intimate and

(39:43):
horrifying experience that every woman, every person fears happened to
her before she was taken from this world. And the
fact that that monster has not been identified, and that
that monster might be be enjoying lunch right now at

(40:04):
a restaurant pisses me the hell off, and it should
piss everyone that's listening to this off. That's why you
listen to this podcast. You're of that type, and that's
what we offer up on the Investigators, and we are
all about a village. I didn't know Cheryl before my
relationship with Jessica, and I'm so grateful now that she

(40:27):
is a friend and that we're in this network together
and to gavi an opportunity to work with one of
the best added to our dynamic is so exciting to me.
So this case I think has a real chance, if
not to bring resolution to it by someone being alive
and being put in jail we don't know yet, but

(40:48):
at least providing answers because that family needs to know
who the monster was or rather not. They're pounding free
pavement right now.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
We own it and y'all are now own it with us.
So if y'all find out anything, contact us and let
us know. For me, what I'm going to be a
concentrate known is the crime scene. And I can already
tell you if you look at rapes, only about twenty
four percent or gang rapes, so that already narra is

(41:19):
our suspect poll and then of those rapists less than
that are going to murder. So it's narrative again. We
have a great shot, I think if we can get
the right evidence that there'll be a code has hit
because none of us, the three of us, believe that
these people went on and you know, started a school somewhere.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
I just wanted to say, I'm I'm thrilled that we
were able to be on your show and appreciate all
of your support. I'm excited about digging into Ann's case,
and I'm really excited about the Investigators launching with Todd.
This is something that's really been our baby. We've been

(42:04):
developing it for months, maybe even a year, to really
hone in on what we wanted it to be. You know,
what he wanted, what I wanted, and how those merge.
And I got to say, I could not be more
proud of this show and what I hope it will
do and how it will resonate with people. I love it.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
If anybody out there wants to hear anything that they
might not have heard before about Cheryl's life that brought
her to where she is right now, you can check
out our podcast because we also feature a little segment
called Across the Table where we speak to people like
Cheryl and Yeah, it's cool when dig into all the

(42:49):
cool stuff that everybody loves about her and what she
does for law enforcement and victims and all that stuff.
But we're also a little bit different, so we might
dig into some uh some Cheryl pre her law enforcement
days and find out what funny story she has hidden
in her little, her little.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
Closet I'm gonna end Zone seven the way that I
always do with a quote, if you're not going to
offend somebody, you don't need the First Amendment. Larry Flint,
I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
H

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Anatomy of a Cold Case: Re-examining the Murder of Ann Ledger with The Investigators Podcast