On January 19, 2001, Athens-Clarke County firefighters found Tara Baker's body responding to a fire at her Athens apartment. The investigation determined that the fire was intentionally set, and investigators spent over two decades seeking answers in the case.
Guest Bio and Links:
Cameron Jay is a true crime junkie whose fascination with the subject comes from the heart- crime is personal. Having a second cousin who was murdered and a best friend killed at the hands of a distracted driver, Cameron believes in advocating for justice and seeking answers for all. Cameron obtained his Bachelor of Arts in Criminology from the University of West Georgia in May of 2024. Cameron is the host of Classic City Crime Podcast
Listeners can learn more about Cameron Jay at his website, and on IG @classiccitycrime
In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum, discusses the resolution of a 23-year-old cold case involving law student Tara Baker from Athens, Georgia. Joined by Cameron Jay, the host of the Classic City Crime Podcast, they dive into the investigation, the advocacy efforts, and the legislative impact of House Bill 88. Cameron also shares the perseverance of Tara's family, the power of community, and the technological advancements that led to solving this case.
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome back to Zone 7 with Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum
- (0:15) Sheryl gives a brief background of the case of Tara Baker
- (3:00) Sheryl introduces guest, Cameron Jay and his role in advocating for Tara's case
- (6:00) Cameron Jay's connection to true crime and his motivation to start podcasting
- (8:00) House Bill 88
- (11:30) Cold Case Accountability Act
- (17:15) “You know, justice might be delayed sometimes, my friend, but it's still going to be right on time when it comes knocking.”
- (20:00) Sheryl and Cameron discuss the possibilities behind how Tara’s case was solved
- (27:00) A gift of gratitude
- (36:10) “I am Tara's mother. I always will be Tara's mother.” -Virginia Baker.
- Thanks for listening to another episode! If you’re loving the show and want to help grow the show, please head over to Itunes and leave a rating and review!
---
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
- Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
A twenty three year old Athens, Georgia cold case is solved.
Honey Tara Baker was a law student at the University
of Georgia. She was studying at the library with friends.
She was last seen by them about seven thirty on
January eighteenth, two thousand and one. Tara ironically called her friend,
(00:33):
who left the library before she did, about nine forty
six to make sure she had made it home safely.
She told her friend that she wasn't going to stay
much longer. She was probably going to be headed home
about ten. That's the last time anybody heard from her.
Baker was killed between nine forty five pm on January
(00:54):
eighteenth and eleven thirty am on the nineteenth. According to
law enforcement, Tara had been strangled, stabbed, and suffered blunt trauma.
She was also sexually assaulted. Then her home was set
on fire. Now, any one of those events could have
killed her. It didn't take all four, so that tells
(01:17):
us a little bit about who the suspect might have been,
the type of person the suspect might have been. The
events that occurred at one sixty Phone Drive were heinous
and shocking to the town of Athens. Now those of
y'all that don't know Athens, I'm going to tell you.
It is a beautiful college town. It is fun, it
(01:41):
is vibrant, it is hustling. It is bustling. You've got
an athletic situation that is second to none, whether it's football, basketball, gymnastics.
You've got fine arts that are second to none. You've
got the Redcoat Marching Band. You've got singers, you've got dancers,
you've got artist It's just a wonderful place to visit.
(02:03):
It is a tremendous place for these students to live
there three or four or five years while they're studying
different things. I cannot say enough wonderful things about Athen, Georgia.
But I want to ask y'all something. Who kept this
case alive, Who shed light on the facts of this case,
(02:23):
Who stayed in contact with her mama, Virginia Baker, who
helped her siblings Meredith, Adam and Kevin get organized and
put their thoughts out there and champion fighting for their sister.
A podcaster, he helped weave questions from listeners and law
(02:45):
enforcement to ferret out to the family, to serve as
the funnel or clearing house to get the answers back
that law enforcement desperately needed. Y'all, I have been waiting
to introduce y'all to my friend. Introduce yaw to the
hosts of Classic City Crime podcast, Cameron Jay, Cameron, welcome
(03:08):
to his own seven Oh Max.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Thank you so much. Such an honor to be with
you today, and thank you for all of your work
and advocacy for homicide victims across this state. It's such
an honor to be with you.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
This child, he championed this case, he worked this case.
And I think it's okay if I tell y'all a
little something personal about him. But he was going to
school at the time. He was studying, he was going
to classes, he was researching, writing papers, but he was
also fighting cancer. He did not let none of it
(03:41):
slow him down stop him. Let me tell you, even
after the press conference, all of this celebrating, everything is
just popping off, so fabulous and confetti and champagne, everything's flowing.
But he's got to go back to the oncologist for
another check. And so he was texting me and he's like, Hey,
(04:01):
as soon as I get out of this appointment, I'm
going to call you. And I'm like you're still having
to deal with that madness, you know, but here he
is handling all of it. Just Jay, I gotta tell you, extraordinary.
You never once complained. You never said I'm too tired,
I'm too sick, too wore out, too disgusted, too fed up,
(04:22):
to just I don't want.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
To do it.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Never, not one time. We got a lot to cover.
But I want people to know when you say, well,
I don't know if I can help. I don't know
if there's anything I can do. You know, I'm in school,
or i'm working, or I'm not in the best of help.
Yes you can. All you got to do is think
of Cameron, Jay, and you better come on and you
(04:45):
can help, no doubt about it. All right, buddy, So
let's jump in this thing.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
How did you come to want to highlight this particular
case of Tarr Baker.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, I've got to be honest. In order to answer that, Mac,
I've got to go back about eleven years ago, when
an eighteen year old me was sitting in a dorm
room at the University of Georgia. I had been for
a long time intrigued by true crime and why people
do what they do, not just what they do, and
(05:17):
that really stemmed from a very personal place for me.
In nineteen ninety six, my mom's first cousin and best
friend was murdered in South Georgia. When I was thirteen
years old, My best friend was killed by a distracted driver,
and I joined forces with his family at that young
age to advocate on his behalf and to inform people
of the dangers of being behind the wheel while distracted.
(05:37):
So this has always been very personal for me. And
one night in that dorm room, I just decided to
google crime cases of Athens and read through a litany
of cases, and of course stumbled across an anniversary article
about Tara's case. You know, those happen every year every
few years in the student newspaper. And you know, at
that time, I just kind of filed it away in
(05:58):
the back of my head. Wow, this is an interesting case. Wow,
this family reminds me of my own family, you know,
good old Southern people with Southern values. So it would
be years later though, twenty twenty actually when I rolled
over one morning and I said, I'm going to start
a podcast, and my partner said, well, what are you
(06:19):
going to do it? On and I said, well, you know,
there's this case that I read about eleven years ago
that I have not been able to let go of
and that I think about often. And so that's kind
of when one thing led to another. I reached out
to Tara's family, her sister first, as I was able
to make contact with We have a mutual friend, as
luck would have it, and they made the introduction. And
(06:42):
you know, one thing that I told them in that
first conversation, or told Meredith in that first conversation, was
a few things. The first that I would not cover
her sister's case without her family's participation in the work
or at the very least their blessing. And secondly, I
made it very clear that you know, I was not
here to solve Tara's case, but instead that I was
(07:04):
here to renew public interest, to bring awareness, to shake
the trees, to you know, remind law enforcement that there's
an entire community that cares about you know, not just
Tara's case, but the forty Unsaw Thomisides thirty nine now
the Athens Clark County Police Department currently has on their books.
So that's how it all got started. And really grateful
(07:27):
to her family for joining me in this effort. And
one thing I'll say, Mac is if you look back
at the last twenty three years, this family never gave.
They have advocated and pushed and asked the tough questions
for quite some time. And so you know, all I
did was come along and elevate their voices in a
modern day platform that's consumed by millions of people, as
(07:49):
you know, across the world, with the hopes that something
might happen. And you can only imagine the shock that
came when something did happen.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
But it's a great feeling to know you've been a
part of it, and not just ground level. You took
this thing to a state level in a really unique way.
Tell everybody about House Bill eighty eight.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Oh yes, So you know, one thing I have always
been Cheryl is a problem solver. If I see a problem,
I don't just complain about it. My grandmother taught me
to get up and do something about it. And so
as I was covering Terra's case, I really identified that
there were two issues that were facing not only her family,
but countless families across the state. The first was when
(08:33):
a family feels that their case has fallen to the wayside,
not intentionally right. We know law enforcement has a lot
of current crime they're dealing with. Where do they turn to?
And what I found was that the answer was really nowhere.
The second thing that I learned was that, you know,
law enforcement is so overwhelmed and burdened with the current
crime that are facing our communities in the present day,
(08:55):
that it's often hard for them to have the time, resources,
percy power, and the monetary resources needed to look back,
retest and reinvestigate evidence in these cases. So, in identifying
those two problems, I started looking for a solution. We
got a really good gift from the federal government when
a bipartisan bill came out called the Homicide Victims Family's
(09:17):
Rights Act of twenty twenty two. And what that bill
did was said after five years, a family or an
investigative entity could reapply for reinvestigation by an independent body.
But there was one problem with that bill. It only
took care of cases that were in federal jurisdiction, so
that left behind countless hundreds of families in Georgia that
(09:39):
didn't qualify for that. And so I said, well, if
the federal government can agree on something, if Republicans and
Democrats can come together and get something done at the
federal level, then I'm just crazy enough to believe that
we can bring it back home gear to Georgia.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
That's exactly what we did, and we did not do
that alone. So as we started research and coming up
with the language of this bill, what we found was
that there was another family with another podcast in South
Georgia that we're advocating really for almost the exact same thing.
So I picked up the phone. I called that family
and I said, you don't know me, but I know you.
(10:15):
This murder actually that I'm talking about the Ron but
Coleman case happened in the hometown next door the city
next door to the hometown I grew up in, so
I've been familiar with it my entire life. So I
picked up the phone, called them and said, there is street,
then numbers, and there's nothing that beats two moms looking
at legislators and saying this is my truth, this is
what I'm here for, this is what my daughters deserve.
(10:38):
And so we brought those together. We got together a
group of legislators from both sides of the Aisle. I'm
really grateful to our Athens delegation for the work that
they did, and we got this thing passed, the Coleman
Baker Act, with unanimous support in both chambers of our
state legislature, and the governors signed it. So one thing
that I will say is that, really what I realized
(11:00):
is once we got through all the details and looking
back at different people and situations that have occurred in
Tara's case over the last twenty three years, we hit
a wall. Right. We went as far as we could go,
and so at that point we really had a choice
to make, and the choice we made was let's pivot
to advocacy, and that's exactly what we did together.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
In twenty twenty, I had written the Cold Case Accountability Act,
and I was trying to get the federal government to
pay attention and they said, well, if you can get
ten thousand signatures, then we'll pay attention. Well I got
just over nine thousand, but they decided to take it
up and run with it anyway. They changed it some,
but my hope was if the federal government will do it,
(11:47):
then maybe states will take it on and you know,
run with it. But what you did here in Georgia
is going to help so many families. So to me,
Tara and Ronda are going to live on and be
able to help thousands of families.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Oh my goodness. The first thing that I said when
we got the news on that Thursday was, well, the
good news in all of this. As hard as it
is to process the fact that the Baker family will
now have to live through the actual truth of what
happened twenty three years ago, and now when they go
to bed at night, Cheryl, it's not a faithless person anymore.
(12:27):
It is a real individual, a monster, a violent criminal
who now when they lay their heads down at night
and close their eyes, they see So that is very difficult.
But the one silver lining that I saw in this news,
in addition to justice obviously being on its way, is
that this would not be the last headline like this.
I mean, I firmly believe that it's going to change
(12:47):
the course for families in Georgia. But what I also
hope other states are doing is looking at to us
as an example now to say, hey, if we do
take time and allocate money, resources, person power and the
things needed to look back at these cases that are
sometimes ten, twenty, thirty, forty years old, then Not only
(13:08):
are we going to bring justice for victims and their
families and answers to these communities, but we're going to
make sure that violent criminals are held accountable so that
they cannot hurt someone again. And so I hope that
these legislators, these police departments and sheriffs departments, law enforcement
agencies across the country will look to what we did
(13:30):
here and say, there is power in this, there is
justice in this. So that's my hope in all of
this that we see this not be the last time
that something like this happens, that it will be replicated
in all fifty states over the next few years. And
that's what I'm going to be pushing for.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And let me just say I will speak for Cameron
jay Rite this minute and myself. Anybody that wants a
copy of the Cold Case Accountability Act. If anybody wants
to see exactly the wording of House Bill eighty eight,
get in touch with either one of us. We are
more than happy to not only help you frame it
the way you want to write it the way you
want to will help advocate for it. So reach out.
(14:11):
We're all about it. Is that okay that I spoke
for you?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Absolutely, please do read it and read it again.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Read it and read it again seriously, because there's not
only power in numbers when it comes to making phone
calls and saying, hey, y'all got to take a look
at this, y'all need to support this. But there's power
in numbers to say, hey, you want us to help
you frame it in Montana and Louisiana and Florida and Illinois,
(14:38):
call us good lord. It's just logical to me, It's logical.
Law enforcement needs help. Everybody's overworked. People have gotten rid
of cold case units because of budgets. There's not enough money,
there's not enough personnel. So if you have outside resources
and outside help, for the love of all that is right,
(15:00):
utilize them. That's why people are there. There's so many
unbelievable organizations and talented individuals that are sit known go
to help you.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Absolutely. And one thing I'll add to that, if you
don't mind, is really, what was truly remarkable about this was,
you know, it's one thing mac for me or you
to get in front of a group of legislators and
talk about, you know, why these issues are so important.
But I can tell you you put a family in
front of them, you put a mother that talks about
a mother's breaking part. One thing Tara told every legislator
(15:35):
we met with was it doesn't matter how many years pass,
it doesn't matter how long I'm waiting. And when you
see the families start telling these stories, you see these
legislators not only get emotional, but really by in to
what we're trying to do here. And you know that's
why in my podcast work, I was so hyper focused
(15:56):
on familial involvement and putting their voices, you know, me
guiding telling their story because I believe it was one
thing for the community to hear my voice talking about it,
but my goodness, you let them hear from the family, friends, colleagues,
classmates of these victims, and suddenly they feel personally connected,
personally invested. And that is what leads to the successful advocacy,
(16:19):
because you build a community around these cases.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And that's what these cases need to be. They need
to be personal. People need to be angry about it.
They need to say, look, I'm going to help this
mama do something. I don't maybe know what I can
do right this minute, but I'm going to share about
the podcast. I'm going to tell people to listen to it.
I'm gonna, you know, send up a prayer, a good wish,
(16:43):
whatever it is you do, light a candle, something to
get this thing rolling. Yes, And that's what you see
your community, your podcast community, the Athens community, the law
enforcement community, you know, the church family of the Baker family,
the neighbors, the friends, the fellow students of Tara. I mean,
you're talking about different pockets, different communities that are all
(17:07):
one when at the end of the day, we're all
one group for her.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Well, I was just going to say, and two, you know,
justice is might be delayed sometimes, my friend, but it's
still going to be right on time when it comes knocking.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I agree with that, and I've seen it more than
once that the timing makes sense because again, if this
case had been solved ten years ago, we wouldn't have
a law.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And I will tell you when we were advocating for
this case, I think this is one of the most
fascinating parts of what we were doing. When we were
advocating for this every legislator that the family and I
walked into their office to talk to we said the
exact same thing, quote, we know that this law will
probably never change the reality that Tara's case is unsolved.
(17:58):
But what we do believe is that she was such
a fierce advocate for justice as a law student at
the University of Georgia, that she was such a champion
of the less fortunate, in the underdog in situations, that
this would be her legacy, the way that she would
live on continually by helping others. And so, you know,
we never expected that not only would her case be
(18:20):
solved as a result of this law, but that it
would be the first.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
What you just said, Cameron is one of those things
where you take it if you scripted it for a
Hollywood movie, it could not be any better. And I
think of the quote you said when you said a
mother's heart never gives up. When I listened to Virginia
Baker talk and I listened to Tara's siblings talk, all
(18:47):
I heard was strength, power, devotion, loyalty. And they did
that for Tara, but they also did it for all
of these other families they won't ever.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Meet, absolutely, and if they're listening, and I will send
it to them, I want to say that their strength
has inspired not only me and I get emotional talking
about it, but they've become such a bonus family to me.
And you know, in the press conference, Meridith referred to
me as the little brother that they didn't know that
they need it, and we've just gotten very, very close.
(19:23):
But what I can say is their strength not only
inspired me, but it inspired hundreds of thousands of people
across this country. It inspired law enforcement to believe that
something could happen again. So for any family out there
listening who's still waiting, hoping, believing and praying, don't give up,
because this is proof in the pudding that something can
(19:46):
be done if only we give it time, give it resources,
and give it attention.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I know the GBI has not wanted to release exactly
from their playbook how they solved it, but there are
some clues. There's some clues in what the suspect is
charged with. So one thing I want to ask you
about is I'm just going to go on the belief
that the DNA, whether it was through ancestry or codis
(20:14):
somehow connected this person. I think that's something that again
we need to keep preaching that we have got technology
now that we didn't even have a few years ago,
and more and more people are putting their DNA into
these sites. More and more people that are in jail
(20:36):
in prison are having to give up their DNA, so
the odds of connecting people are greater than ever before.
The technology like authram and m VAT and the Bardol
method are so crazy good and so just remarkable that
I mean, I don't know how anybody gets away with
(20:57):
the crime anymore. I'm just going to say it.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I'm telling you.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I mean, if somebody said, hey, do you think I
could get away with this, I'm a glad tell you no. No,
You're almost always on camera, you almost always leave your
evidence behind you. Just do you touch something, you sweat,
you spit, there's something you have done where they're gonna
find you, They're gonna get you. But in this situation,
(21:24):
I believe that at some point, not only should the
GBI come out and share their playbook, I think it's
going to be imperative because I think other departments need
to know what they did. It's probably not something that
we don't already know. It's probably not something that other
cases haven't already tried. But I would love to see
(21:45):
that shared. What is your feeling about that? Not today,
but just sometime.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Sure, Well, you know It's one of those things where
we know that the criminal justice system's wheels are now turning.
So I do believe that those details will come out
the appropriate time. What I can say is from my
knowledge of this case is that the GBI itself, no
outside forces, no other individual groups. As much as you know,
(22:12):
I love those groups doing all of this technological and
scientific work in the modern age. What I believe that
I can say is that when this does come out,
I believe firmly that the GBI will be getting a
lot of credit for maybe just looking at things through
a different lens than we did twenty three years ago.
And to your point, science technology, specifically DNA technology has
(22:36):
come so far just in the last few years, if
you count up decades, we're talking about a lot of
the advancements. So, like you, I'm looking forward to hearing
those specific details. But it sounds like they're very confident
they have the right person, and I believe that as well.
I am one person that doesn't like to deny science
(22:56):
nor fact, and I know you're the same way. So
you know, I'm grateful that they were able to bring
this across the finish line. And you know, one thing,
I've just been encouraging listeners and friends of mine to do.
Is there's a lot of well what is or you know,
well did this happen or that happen? Or is this
person connected to that person? And what I keep reminding
(23:18):
everyone is that all of that is coming. We just
have to be patient and wait on the process. And uh,
it's kind of goes back to my quote earlier Martin
Luther King Junior said it best. The arc of the
moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice every
single time. And so you know, this process may take
some time, especially when you think about twenty three years
(23:40):
worth of evidence, twenty three years worth of tracking down
people that were interviewed all the way back then. And
as you mentioned, Athens is a fun town, but it's
a transient town people that people live here for four
or five years and then they move around the world.
So you know, I think all of that will take time.
And I'm looking forward to with you, my friend, and
I'm learning some of those details. But great work to
(24:03):
the GBI. And one thing that I want to give
them specific credit on is they always viewed this, I
feel as a partnership. It was never the GBI versus
the Appens Park County Police Department. It was never the
GBI versus Classic City Crime podcast. It was never the
GBI versus the Baker family. It was always we together,
(24:27):
a team in partnership with one another, can do things
that have never been done. We can go places that
have never been gone. And therefore that's why I think
we are exactly where we are now. It was looking
at one another and saying, we're all part of a
tea gear. Let's do this together.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
You know, when I was first assigned to Operation Wagncye
back in the nineties, the person that was in charge
of that, his name was Jim Birch, and Jim was
a GBI agent that was given the task of in
this whole operation. He did so with such integrity and
such genuine care and concern for other people. But he
(25:09):
also never forgot to have a great time, to have fun,
to include everybody, whether it was a rookie or a captain.
I mean, he was so inclusive and the other thing
that he did better than anybody I had ever seen
at that time. It was a team. So we had
the Secret Service, the FBI, the GBI, APD, Fulton County.
(25:32):
Everybody was involved, but nobody felt like anybody was in
a better position or given the you know, golden child status.
It was never that we worked as one unit.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I told so many people that we have to get
away from the mindset of I want to be right,
and we have to get more in the mindset of
I want the truth, regardless of whether that means what
you might have thoughts or you know, a scenario that
you put together or you know, in these cases that
are really, you know, so old, there's often a lot
(26:08):
of people that could be involved, right, So you know,
I think that is such an important piece too. Is
just recognizing that.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
But you know, you're you're living that same way. When
I first heard and saw the press conference, I was like, Dad, Gummett,
Cameron did it. He freaking did it. But when I
talked to you, you were like, oh, listen, every single
person played such a stellar role in such a solid involvement.
It was the same feeling. And I always tell people
(26:39):
I don't care who puts the handcuffs on somebody, amen,
I just want it done. I want this person off
the street. I want them away from innocent people where
they cannot hurt anybody else. So whether this department gets
credit or this individual gets credited, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.
We all know the truth. We all go to bed
(26:59):
at night going, hey, that was a pretty good day.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You know that's right.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
But I just want everybody to know I personally know
what you did and again the way that you did it.
But I ain't the only person. I'm not. Why don't
you tell everybody what gift you were given and by whom? Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
So it has been really remarkable, and I really appreciate
your kind words, Cheryl. One thing I do want to
say is back to what I told Miss Baker and
Meredith in the first few conversations I had with I
don't believe I saw to this case. I believe I
raised awareness, shook the trees, did the advocacy, and because
of all of that work, the GBI was able to
(27:38):
solve the case. So I want to make that very clear.
But I've been very, very blessed to be reached out
to by members of the Athens Park County Police Department,
the Baker family, of course, members of this community, people
from all over the country and world. But one of
the pieces that really got to me was I got
(27:59):
a call maybe a few days after the case was
solved or it was announced that someone had been arrested,
and it was from a GBI agent on the case.
And I won't say their name just to protect their
privacy as they continue to work through all of the
details I know they're facing right now. But they called
me said stop by my house. I have something I
(28:20):
want to talk to you about or give you. And
the first thing I thought was what the hell have
I done now? So I was a little nervous, My
hands were sweaty driving over, had no idea what was
going to happen. And this person invited me into their home,
sat me down on the couch and just really expressed
gratitude for the work that this podcast community, not just me.
(28:42):
You'll hear me often say we together, this community, this family,
we were able to enable them to solve the case.
It was something to that effect. We would not be
here if it were not for you. And when they
say you, in my mind, that's us, and I was like, well,
thank you. You know, that's very kind. It was obviously
(29:04):
something I didn't expect. And so I'm getting ready to
leave and this person says, I have something I want
to get to you. And I opened my hand and
they put a lapel pen in my hand and I
was like, oh, thank you. And I just thought it was,
you know, a GBI lapel pen, right that everyone gets
at a job. And what I found out was its
(29:25):
actually the lapel pen that was pinned on this person
when they became an agent, their class pen and so,
and it was the same pen they wore to the
Baker press conference, which I could not attend because I
was busy working in my full time job that day.
So it just meant so much to me to be
(29:45):
acknowledged in that way, to feel like I am not
tangential but actually a part of what's happening here and
what has transpired. So if that person is listening, thank
you for the acknowledgment and for the work you're doing.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
And what a sentimental, fabulous gift. To share that pen
with anybody would be an honor. But you know what
that means, And I think that you know, you should
get choked up when you talk about it, because this
was not you know, ever since the first time we
ever spoke, you have never been anything but authentic and
(30:24):
what you wanted and what your vision was. You've never
swayed from it. And it was never about, hey, I'm
going to put a podcast out, and it was never
just a side hustle, so to speak. This was something
you were devoted to and it showed in everything that
you did, the way you went to you know, to
(30:45):
the family, the way that you again you became that
little brother they didn't know they needed. And it's something
that you know, I try to teach my own children
sometimes when you do for other people, you literally gain
more than the people you're trying to do something for.
And you have gained family, you have gained fans, you
(31:05):
have gained a law you have gained a solved case,
you have gained respect from law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
That ain't a bad day, not at all. And you know,
I am a student to this job, is what I
say so much, Cheryl. I wake up every day and
learn something new. I wake up every day and say, oh,
looking back at that first episode from three years ago,
I might could have worded that a little differently. You know,
I'm sure you have those moments too, or you know,
what started out as a critique of law enforcement has
(31:34):
transformed into a understanding of law enforcement. And a partnership
with law enforcement. So it's come such a long way.
And when I first started this out, yes, it was
always going to be more than just a pet project,
because when I do something, I give it one hundred
percent always, But I certainly did not expect it to
become what it became. I thought we would have a
(31:55):
few hundred listeners, that we would do five or ten
episodes maybe, and then you know, we would see what happened.
But what happened was the exact opposite of that. We
started doing the episodes, and I opened my phone the
next morning and I'm like, five thousand people, And then
a few weeks go by and it's twenty thousand, then
it gets into the hundreds of thousands, then it gets
up to a million, and I'm just like, oh my goodness,
(32:17):
something is happening here, and people need a platform an
outlet to be heard. And you know, it's not that
they're speaking the truth always, right, but they are certainly
speaking their truth, and that's something to be looked at
and deciphered, you know, by the powers that be. But
it very quickly morphed into more than I ever dreamed
or imagined. I was working a full time job at
(32:39):
the time in housing in a marketing position. And what
I found was as I started doing this podcast that
I was spending more time stepping out of my office
to answer calls from listeners and people that had information
than I was doing the job I was hired and
paid to do. And so I really made a tough
decision at that point my part, Aaron, I said, look,
(33:01):
I believe in what we're doing here. I believe in
this family, I believe in this story. I'm going to
leave my corporate job. I'm going to leave my salary
and benefits, and I'm going to pursue this thing with
my heart's soul, mind and strength. And that's what I
did for two years full time. It was Terror Baker
every day, all day. And that doesn't necessarily mean I
(33:22):
was reporting or interviewing all the time, you know how
it goes. Some nights when I couldn't sleep, I would
just pull down the file book that was three inches
wide of every incident report that occurred in a three
year period in that neighborhood. Right, it was just all
that I could think about. But it was not because
of the podcast work. It was because of her mom,
(33:42):
and it was because every time I wanted to call
and talk to her mom, I wanted, you know, to
be able to say I haven't forgotten, because I felt
like for so long she felt that people had forgotten,
and that was the one thing that she didn't want
to happen. I don't want people to forget. And my goodness, Cheryl,
(34:03):
they're not going to forget now, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
No, sir, and let me tell you something. Now that
you know you've got this accolade in this star in
your crown, don't stop calling me now that you're famous.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Well, infamous might be the better term, but no, you
will always be in my zone, my friend. I mean,
you know, so many people when I first started this
said you are just bonkers.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (34:27):
You know? But when I called you, you said, keep
it up, keep going, keep shaking the trees, keep asking
tough questions, keep letting people talk. And you know, I
can't thank you enough for being encouraging to me. You
mentioned that I was in school when all this was
going on. I went back to school to get a
criminology degree. I graduated two weeks ago. That was all
(34:50):
because Miss Baker encouraged me to do that I love it,
and I went back. I found my passion. So when
I graduated, literally two days after, an arrest was made
by the way, as I walked that stage, I thought,
in my mind, this is for Terra, this is for
Miss Virginia, this is for the Baker family. Because if
it were not for them joining forces with me and
(35:13):
being with me through this, I don't know if I
would have discovered my passion. And my passion is victim advocacy.
It is you know, when you find that the laws
don't work, you either work to change them or work
to create new ones.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Honey, those graduation pictures were so fantastic too. You look
so happy, so happy, thank you, And I felt like
watching those pictures, I thought, you know what, he has
graduated in more than one way. You have started a
new life in more than one way. You are healthy,
you've got a salve under your belt which is tremendous,
You've got a law that you helped create, and now
(35:50):
you've got this degree. I mean, there ain't no stopping you.
I told you to shake some trees, honey, you cut
them mothers down.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, let me tell you I am of faith, Cheryl,
and one thing that I learned from a very young age.
It's my favorite quote. It hangs on my wall at
my office at my big boy job, as I call it.
It hangs in the office at my home, and it
says this, do all the good you can, in all
the ways you can, and all the places you can,
(36:18):
to all the people you can, at all the times
you can, as long as ever you can.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
And I feel that I have a lot of good
to keep doing, and I feel that people listening to
this have a lot of good to keep doing. People
in our community have a lot of good to keep doing.
So my big takeaway from all of this is, let's
just all keep doing the most good because if we
seek to do good, I believe the reward is exactly
what we saw. It is justice, It has answers, is
(36:48):
the truth. So I'm going to keep pursuing justice, not
just for Terra and her family, but there are, as
I mentioned now, thirty nine other unsold homicides in Athens
Clark County dating back to nineteen sixty nine. We know
that there are hundreds across the state of Georgia, and
as a result of the Coleman Baker Act, in addition
to funding the Cold Case Unit at the GBI. What
(37:10):
it also did, which I think is really great, is
it created a reporting requirement and a data colection requirement
for us to learn how many UNSAW homicides to eat
this each agency have record off across the state. Because
here's what I believe. I believe when we get that
data and finalize it, we're going to see, hey, this
might be a bigger problem than we thought it was.
(37:32):
And once we have that data and information, what are
we able to do allocating more time, more resources, more
funding to get things done. So I'm really looking forward
to seeing that come to fruition.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Too, y'all. I'm going to end Zone seven the way
I always do with a quote. I am Tara's mother,
I always will be Tara's mother, Virginia Baker. I'm Cheryl McCollum,
and this is Own seven
A twenty three year old Athens, Georgia cold case is solved.
Honey Tara Baker was a law student at the University
of Georgia. She was studying at the library with friends.
She was last seen by them about seven thirty on
January eighteenth, two thousand and one. Tara ironically called her friend,
(00:33):
who left the library before she did, about nine forty
six to make sure she had made it home safely.
She told her friend that she wasn't going to stay
much longer. She was probably going to be headed home
about ten. That's the last time anybody heard from her.
Baker was killed between nine forty five pm on January
(00:54):
eighteenth and eleven thirty am on the nineteenth. According to
law enforcement, Tara had been strangled, stabbed, and suffered blunt trauma.
She was also sexually assaulted. Then her home was set
on fire. Now, any one of those events could have
killed her. It didn't take all four, so that tells
(01:17):
us a little bit about who the suspect might have been,
the type of person the suspect might have been. The
events that occurred at one sixty Phone Drive were heinous
and shocking to the town of Athens. Now those of
y'all that don't know Athens, I'm going to tell you.
It is a beautiful college town. It is fun, it
(01:41):
is vibrant, it is hustling. It is bustling. You've got
an athletic situation that is second to none, whether it's football, basketball, gymnastics.
You've got fine arts that are second to none. You've
got the Redcoat Marching Band. You've got singers, you've got dancers,
you've got artist It's just a wonderful place to visit.
(02:03):
It is a tremendous place for these students to live
there three or four or five years while they're studying
different things. I cannot say enough wonderful things about Athen, Georgia.
But I want to ask y'all something. Who kept this
case alive, Who shed light on the facts of this case,
(02:23):
Who stayed in contact with her mama, Virginia Baker, who
helped her siblings Meredith, Adam and Kevin get organized and
put their thoughts out there and champion fighting for their sister.
A podcaster, he helped weave questions from listeners and law
(02:45):
enforcement to ferret out to the family, to serve as
the funnel or clearing house to get the answers back
that law enforcement desperately needed. Y'all, I have been waiting
to introduce y'all to my friend. Introduce yaw to the
hosts of Classic City Crime podcast, Cameron Jay, Cameron, welcome
(03:08):
to his own seven Oh Max.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Thank you so much. Such an honor to be with
you today, and thank you for all of your work
and advocacy for homicide victims across this state. It's such
an honor to be with you.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
This child, he championed this case, he worked this case.
And I think it's okay if I tell y'all a
little something personal about him. But he was going to
school at the time. He was studying, he was going
to classes, he was researching, writing papers, but he was
also fighting cancer. He did not let none of it
(03:41):
slow him down stop him. Let me tell you, even
after the press conference, all of this celebrating, everything is
just popping off, so fabulous and confetti and champagne, everything's flowing.
But he's got to go back to the oncologist for
another check. And so he was texting me and he's like, Hey,
(04:01):
as soon as I get out of this appointment, I'm
going to call you. And I'm like you're still having
to deal with that madness, you know, but here he
is handling all of it. Just Jay, I gotta tell you, extraordinary.
You never once complained. You never said I'm too tired,
I'm too sick, too wore out, too disgusted, too fed up,
(04:22):
to just I don't want.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
To do it.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Never, not one time. We got a lot to cover.
But I want people to know when you say, well,
I don't know if I can help. I don't know
if there's anything I can do. You know, I'm in school,
or i'm working, or I'm not in the best of help.
Yes you can. All you got to do is think
of Cameron, Jay, and you better come on and you
(04:45):
can help, no doubt about it. All right, buddy, So
let's jump in this thing.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
How did you come to want to highlight this particular
case of Tarr Baker.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, I've got to be honest. In order to answer that, Mac,
I've got to go back about eleven years ago, when
an eighteen year old me was sitting in a dorm
room at the University of Georgia. I had been for
a long time intrigued by true crime and why people
do what they do, not just what they do, and
(05:17):
that really stemmed from a very personal place for me.
In nineteen ninety six, my mom's first cousin and best
friend was murdered in South Georgia. When I was thirteen
years old, My best friend was killed by a distracted driver,
and I joined forces with his family at that young
age to advocate on his behalf and to inform people
of the dangers of being behind the wheel while distracted.
(05:37):
So this has always been very personal for me. And
one night in that dorm room, I just decided to
google crime cases of Athens and read through a litany
of cases, and of course stumbled across an anniversary article
about Tara's case. You know, those happen every year every
few years in the student newspaper. And you know, at
that time, I just kind of filed it away in
(05:58):
the back of my head. Wow, this is an interesting case. Wow,
this family reminds me of my own family, you know,
good old Southern people with Southern values. So it would
be years later though, twenty twenty actually when I rolled
over one morning and I said, I'm going to start
a podcast, and my partner said, well, what are you
(06:19):
going to do it? On and I said, well, you know,
there's this case that I read about eleven years ago
that I have not been able to let go of
and that I think about often. And so that's kind
of when one thing led to another. I reached out
to Tara's family, her sister first, as I was able
to make contact with We have a mutual friend, as
luck would have it, and they made the introduction. And
(06:42):
you know, one thing that I told them in that
first conversation, or told Meredith in that first conversation, was
a few things. The first that I would not cover
her sister's case without her family's participation in the work
or at the very least their blessing. And secondly, I
made it very clear that you know, I was not
here to solve Tara's case, but instead that I was
(07:04):
here to renew public interest, to bring awareness, to shake
the trees, to you know, remind law enforcement that there's
an entire community that cares about you know, not just
Tara's case, but the forty Unsaw Thomisides thirty nine now
the Athens Clark County Police Department currently has on their books.
So that's how it all got started. And really grateful
(07:27):
to her family for joining me in this effort. And
one thing I'll say, Mac is if you look back
at the last twenty three years, this family never gave.
They have advocated and pushed and asked the tough questions
for quite some time. And so you know, all I
did was come along and elevate their voices in a
modern day platform that's consumed by millions of people, as
(07:49):
you know, across the world, with the hopes that something
might happen. And you can only imagine the shock that
came when something did happen.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
But it's a great feeling to know you've been a
part of it, and not just ground level. You took
this thing to a state level in a really unique way.
Tell everybody about House Bill eighty eight.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Oh yes, So you know, one thing I have always
been Cheryl is a problem solver. If I see a problem,
I don't just complain about it. My grandmother taught me
to get up and do something about it. And so
as I was covering Terra's case, I really identified that
there were two issues that were facing not only her family,
but countless families across the state. The first was when
(08:33):
a family feels that their case has fallen to the wayside,
not intentionally right. We know law enforcement has a lot
of current crime they're dealing with. Where do they turn to?
And what I found was that the answer was really nowhere.
The second thing that I learned was that, you know,
law enforcement is so overwhelmed and burdened with the current
crime that are facing our communities in the present day,
(08:55):
that it's often hard for them to have the time, resources,
percy power, and the monetary resources needed to look back,
retest and reinvestigate evidence in these cases. So, in identifying
those two problems, I started looking for a solution. We
got a really good gift from the federal government when
a bipartisan bill came out called the Homicide Victims Family's
(09:17):
Rights Act of twenty twenty two. And what that bill
did was said after five years, a family or an
investigative entity could reapply for reinvestigation by an independent body.
But there was one problem with that bill. It only
took care of cases that were in federal jurisdiction, so
that left behind countless hundreds of families in Georgia that
(09:39):
didn't qualify for that. And so I said, well, if
the federal government can agree on something, if Republicans and
Democrats can come together and get something done at the
federal level, then I'm just crazy enough to believe that
we can bring it back home gear to Georgia.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
That's exactly what we did, and we did not do
that alone. So as we started research and coming up
with the language of this bill, what we found was
that there was another family with another podcast in South
Georgia that we're advocating really for almost the exact same thing.
So I picked up the phone. I called that family
and I said, you don't know me, but I know you.
(10:15):
This murder actually that I'm talking about the Ron but
Coleman case happened in the hometown next door the city
next door to the hometown I grew up in, so
I've been familiar with it my entire life. So I
picked up the phone, called them and said, there is street,
then numbers, and there's nothing that beats two moms looking
at legislators and saying this is my truth, this is
what I'm here for, this is what my daughters deserve.
(10:38):
And so we brought those together. We got together a
group of legislators from both sides of the Aisle. I'm
really grateful to our Athens delegation for the work that
they did, and we got this thing passed, the Coleman
Baker Act, with unanimous support in both chambers of our
state legislature, and the governors signed it. So one thing
that I will say is that, really what I realized
(11:00):
is once we got through all the details and looking
back at different people and situations that have occurred in
Tara's case over the last twenty three years, we hit
a wall. Right. We went as far as we could go,
and so at that point we really had a choice
to make, and the choice we made was let's pivot
to advocacy, and that's exactly what we did together.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
In twenty twenty, I had written the Cold Case Accountability Act,
and I was trying to get the federal government to
pay attention and they said, well, if you can get
ten thousand signatures, then we'll pay attention. Well I got
just over nine thousand, but they decided to take it
up and run with it anyway. They changed it some,
but my hope was if the federal government will do it,
(11:47):
then maybe states will take it on and you know,
run with it. But what you did here in Georgia
is going to help so many families. So to me,
Tara and Ronda are going to live on and be
able to help thousands of families.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Oh my goodness. The first thing that I said when
we got the news on that Thursday was, well, the
good news in all of this. As hard as it
is to process the fact that the Baker family will
now have to live through the actual truth of what
happened twenty three years ago, and now when they go
to bed at night, Cheryl, it's not a faithless person anymore.
(12:27):
It is a real individual, a monster, a violent criminal
who now when they lay their heads down at night
and close their eyes, they see So that is very difficult.
But the one silver lining that I saw in this news,
in addition to justice obviously being on its way, is
that this would not be the last headline like this.
I mean, I firmly believe that it's going to change
(12:47):
the course for families in Georgia. But what I also
hope other states are doing is looking at to us
as an example now to say, hey, if we do
take time and allocate money, resources, person power and the
things needed to look back at these cases that are
sometimes ten, twenty, thirty, forty years old, then Not only
(13:08):
are we going to bring justice for victims and their
families and answers to these communities, but we're going to
make sure that violent criminals are held accountable so that
they cannot hurt someone again. And so I hope that
these legislators, these police departments and sheriffs departments, law enforcement
agencies across the country will look to what we did
(13:30):
here and say, there is power in this, there is
justice in this. So that's my hope in all of
this that we see this not be the last time
that something like this happens, that it will be replicated
in all fifty states over the next few years. And
that's what I'm going to be pushing for.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And let me just say I will speak for Cameron
jay Rite this minute and myself. Anybody that wants a
copy of the Cold Case Accountability Act. If anybody wants
to see exactly the wording of House Bill eighty eight,
get in touch with either one of us. We are
more than happy to not only help you frame it
the way you want to write it the way you
want to will help advocate for it. So reach out.
(14:11):
We're all about it. Is that okay that I spoke
for you?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Absolutely, please do read it and read it again.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Read it and read it again seriously, because there's not
only power in numbers when it comes to making phone
calls and saying, hey, y'all got to take a look
at this, y'all need to support this. But there's power
in numbers to say, hey, you want us to help
you frame it in Montana and Louisiana and Florida and Illinois,
(14:38):
call us good lord. It's just logical to me, It's logical.
Law enforcement needs help. Everybody's overworked. People have gotten rid
of cold case units because of budgets. There's not enough money,
there's not enough personnel. So if you have outside resources
and outside help, for the love of all that is right,
(15:00):
utilize them. That's why people are there. There's so many
unbelievable organizations and talented individuals that are sit known go
to help you.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Absolutely. And one thing I'll add to that, if you
don't mind, is really, what was truly remarkable about this was,
you know, it's one thing mac for me or you
to get in front of a group of legislators and
talk about, you know, why these issues are so important.
But I can tell you you put a family in
front of them, you put a mother that talks about
a mother's breaking part. One thing Tara told every legislator
(15:35):
we met with was it doesn't matter how many years pass,
it doesn't matter how long I'm waiting. And when you
see the families start telling these stories, you see these
legislators not only get emotional, but really by in to
what we're trying to do here. And you know that's
why in my podcast work, I was so hyper focused
(15:56):
on familial involvement and putting their voices, you know, me
guiding telling their story because I believe it was one
thing for the community to hear my voice talking about it,
but my goodness, you let them hear from the family, friends, colleagues,
classmates of these victims, and suddenly they feel personally connected,
personally invested. And that is what leads to the successful advocacy,
(16:19):
because you build a community around these cases.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And that's what these cases need to be. They need
to be personal. People need to be angry about it.
They need to say, look, I'm going to help this
mama do something. I don't maybe know what I can
do right this minute, but I'm going to share about
the podcast. I'm going to tell people to listen to it.
I'm gonna, you know, send up a prayer, a good wish,
(16:43):
whatever it is you do, light a candle, something to
get this thing rolling. Yes, And that's what you see
your community, your podcast community, the Athens community, the law
enforcement community, you know, the church family of the Baker family,
the neighbors, the friends, the fellow students of Tara. I mean,
you're talking about different pockets, different communities that are all
(17:07):
one when at the end of the day, we're all
one group for her.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Well, I was just going to say, and two, you know,
justice is might be delayed sometimes, my friend, but it's
still going to be right on time when it comes knocking.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I agree with that, and I've seen it more than
once that the timing makes sense because again, if this
case had been solved ten years ago, we wouldn't have
a law.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And I will tell you when we were advocating for
this case, I think this is one of the most
fascinating parts of what we were doing. When we were
advocating for this every legislator that the family and I
walked into their office to talk to we said the
exact same thing, quote, we know that this law will
probably never change the reality that Tara's case is unsolved.
(17:58):
But what we do believe is that she was such
a fierce advocate for justice as a law student at
the University of Georgia, that she was such a champion
of the less fortunate, in the underdog in situations, that
this would be her legacy, the way that she would
live on continually by helping others. And so, you know,
we never expected that not only would her case be
(18:20):
solved as a result of this law, but that it
would be the first.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
What you just said, Cameron is one of those things
where you take it if you scripted it for a
Hollywood movie, it could not be any better. And I
think of the quote you said when you said a
mother's heart never gives up. When I listened to Virginia
Baker talk and I listened to Tara's siblings talk, all
(18:47):
I heard was strength, power, devotion, loyalty. And they did
that for Tara, but they also did it for all
of these other families they won't ever.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Meet, absolutely, and if they're listening, and I will send
it to them, I want to say that their strength
has inspired not only me and I get emotional talking
about it, but they've become such a bonus family to me.
And you know, in the press conference, Meridith referred to
me as the little brother that they didn't know that
they need it, and we've just gotten very, very close.
(19:23):
But what I can say is their strength not only
inspired me, but it inspired hundreds of thousands of people
across this country. It inspired law enforcement to believe that
something could happen again. So for any family out there
listening who's still waiting, hoping, believing and praying, don't give up,
because this is proof in the pudding that something can
(19:46):
be done if only we give it time, give it resources,
and give it attention.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I know the GBI has not wanted to release exactly
from their playbook how they solved it, but there are
some clues. There's some clues in what the suspect is
charged with. So one thing I want to ask you
about is I'm just going to go on the belief
that the DNA, whether it was through ancestry or codis
(20:14):
somehow connected this person. I think that's something that again
we need to keep preaching that we have got technology
now that we didn't even have a few years ago,
and more and more people are putting their DNA into
these sites. More and more people that are in jail
(20:36):
in prison are having to give up their DNA, so
the odds of connecting people are greater than ever before.
The technology like authram and m VAT and the Bardol
method are so crazy good and so just remarkable that
I mean, I don't know how anybody gets away with
(20:57):
the crime anymore. I'm just going to say it.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I'm telling you.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I mean, if somebody said, hey, do you think I
could get away with this, I'm a glad tell you no. No,
You're almost always on camera, you almost always leave your
evidence behind you. Just do you touch something, you sweat,
you spit, there's something you have done where they're gonna
find you, They're gonna get you. But in this situation,
(21:24):
I believe that at some point, not only should the
GBI come out and share their playbook, I think it's
going to be imperative because I think other departments need
to know what they did. It's probably not something that
we don't already know. It's probably not something that other
cases haven't already tried. But I would love to see
(21:45):
that shared. What is your feeling about that? Not today,
but just sometime.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Sure, Well, you know It's one of those things where
we know that the criminal justice system's wheels are now turning.
So I do believe that those details will come out
the appropriate time. What I can say is from my
knowledge of this case is that the GBI itself, no
outside forces, no other individual groups. As much as you know,
(22:12):
I love those groups doing all of this technological and
scientific work in the modern age. What I believe that
I can say is that when this does come out,
I believe firmly that the GBI will be getting a
lot of credit for maybe just looking at things through
a different lens than we did twenty three years ago.
And to your point, science technology, specifically DNA technology has
(22:36):
come so far just in the last few years, if
you count up decades, we're talking about a lot of
the advancements. So, like you, I'm looking forward to hearing
those specific details. But it sounds like they're very confident
they have the right person, and I believe that as well.
I am one person that doesn't like to deny science
(22:56):
nor fact, and I know you're the same way. So
you know, I'm grateful that they were able to bring
this across the finish line. And you know, one thing,
I've just been encouraging listeners and friends of mine to do.
Is there's a lot of well what is or you know,
well did this happen or that happen? Or is this
person connected to that person? And what I keep reminding
(23:18):
everyone is that all of that is coming. We just
have to be patient and wait on the process. And uh,
it's kind of goes back to my quote earlier Martin
Luther King Junior said it best. The arc of the
moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice every
single time. And so you know, this process may take
some time, especially when you think about twenty three years
(23:40):
worth of evidence, twenty three years worth of tracking down
people that were interviewed all the way back then. And
as you mentioned, Athens is a fun town, but it's
a transient town people that people live here for four
or five years and then they move around the world.
So you know, I think all of that will take time.
And I'm looking forward to with you, my friend, and
I'm learning some of those details. But great work to
(24:03):
the GBI. And one thing that I want to give
them specific credit on is they always viewed this, I
feel as a partnership. It was never the GBI versus
the Appens Park County Police Department. It was never the
GBI versus Classic City Crime podcast. It was never the
GBI versus the Baker family. It was always we together,
(24:27):
a team in partnership with one another, can do things
that have never been done. We can go places that
have never been gone. And therefore that's why I think
we are exactly where we are now. It was looking
at one another and saying, we're all part of a
tea gear. Let's do this together.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
You know, when I was first assigned to Operation Wagncye
back in the nineties, the person that was in charge
of that, his name was Jim Birch, and Jim was
a GBI agent that was given the task of in
this whole operation. He did so with such integrity and
such genuine care and concern for other people. But he
(25:09):
also never forgot to have a great time, to have fun,
to include everybody, whether it was a rookie or a captain.
I mean, he was so inclusive and the other thing
that he did better than anybody I had ever seen
at that time. It was a team. So we had
the Secret Service, the FBI, the GBI, APD, Fulton County.
(25:32):
Everybody was involved, but nobody felt like anybody was in
a better position or given the you know, golden child status.
It was never that we worked as one unit.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I told so many people that we have to get
away from the mindset of I want to be right,
and we have to get more in the mindset of
I want the truth, regardless of whether that means what
you might have thoughts or you know, a scenario that
you put together or you know, in these cases that
are really, you know, so old, there's often a lot
(26:08):
of people that could be involved, right, So you know,
I think that is such an important piece too. Is
just recognizing that.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
But you know, you're you're living that same way. When
I first heard and saw the press conference, I was like, Dad, Gummett,
Cameron did it. He freaking did it. But when I
talked to you, you were like, oh, listen, every single
person played such a stellar role in such a solid involvement.
It was the same feeling. And I always tell people
(26:39):
I don't care who puts the handcuffs on somebody, amen,
I just want it done. I want this person off
the street. I want them away from innocent people where
they cannot hurt anybody else. So whether this department gets
credit or this individual gets credited, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.
We all know the truth. We all go to bed
(26:59):
at night going, hey, that was a pretty good day.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You know that's right.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
But I just want everybody to know I personally know
what you did and again the way that you did it.
But I ain't the only person. I'm not. Why don't
you tell everybody what gift you were given and by whom? Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
So it has been really remarkable, and I really appreciate
your kind words, Cheryl. One thing I do want to
say is back to what I told Miss Baker and
Meredith in the first few conversations I had with I
don't believe I saw to this case. I believe I
raised awareness, shook the trees, did the advocacy, and because
of all of that work, the GBI was able to
(27:38):
solve the case. So I want to make that very clear.
But I've been very, very blessed to be reached out
to by members of the Athens Park County Police Department,
the Baker family, of course, members of this community, people
from all over the country and world. But one of
the pieces that really got to me was I got
(27:59):
a call maybe a few days after the case was
solved or it was announced that someone had been arrested,
and it was from a GBI agent on the case.
And I won't say their name just to protect their
privacy as they continue to work through all of the
details I know they're facing right now. But they called
me said stop by my house. I have something I
(28:20):
want to talk to you about or give you. And
the first thing I thought was what the hell have
I done now? So I was a little nervous, My
hands were sweaty driving over, had no idea what was
going to happen. And this person invited me into their home,
sat me down on the couch and just really expressed
gratitude for the work that this podcast community, not just me.
(28:42):
You'll hear me often say we together, this community, this family,
we were able to enable them to solve the case.
It was something to that effect. We would not be
here if it were not for you. And when they
say you, in my mind, that's us, and I was like, well,
thank you. You know, that's very kind. It was obviously
(29:04):
something I didn't expect. And so I'm getting ready to
leave and this person says, I have something I want
to get to you. And I opened my hand and
they put a lapel pen in my hand and I
was like, oh, thank you. And I just thought it was,
you know, a GBI lapel pen, right that everyone gets
at a job. And what I found out was its
(29:25):
actually the lapel pen that was pinned on this person
when they became an agent, their class pen and so,
and it was the same pen they wore to the
Baker press conference, which I could not attend because I
was busy working in my full time job that day.
So it just meant so much to me to be
(29:45):
acknowledged in that way, to feel like I am not
tangential but actually a part of what's happening here and
what has transpired. So if that person is listening, thank
you for the acknowledgment and for the work you're doing.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
And what a sentimental, fabulous gift. To share that pen
with anybody would be an honor. But you know what
that means, And I think that you know, you should
get choked up when you talk about it, because this
was not you know, ever since the first time we
ever spoke, you have never been anything but authentic and
(30:24):
what you wanted and what your vision was. You've never
swayed from it. And it was never about, hey, I'm
going to put a podcast out, and it was never
just a side hustle, so to speak. This was something
you were devoted to and it showed in everything that
you did, the way you went to you know, to
(30:45):
the family, the way that you again you became that
little brother they didn't know they needed. And it's something
that you know, I try to teach my own children
sometimes when you do for other people, you literally gain
more than the people you're trying to do something for.
And you have gained family, you have gained fans, you
(31:05):
have gained a law you have gained a solved case,
you have gained respect from law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
That ain't a bad day, not at all. And you know,
I am a student to this job, is what I
say so much, Cheryl. I wake up every day and
learn something new. I wake up every day and say, oh,
looking back at that first episode from three years ago,
I might could have worded that a little differently. You know,
I'm sure you have those moments too, or you know,
what started out as a critique of law enforcement has
(31:34):
transformed into a understanding of law enforcement. And a partnership
with law enforcement. So it's come such a long way.
And when I first started this out, yes, it was
always going to be more than just a pet project,
because when I do something, I give it one hundred
percent always, But I certainly did not expect it to
become what it became. I thought we would have a
(31:55):
few hundred listeners, that we would do five or ten
episodes maybe, and then you know, we would see what happened.
But what happened was the exact opposite of that. We
started doing the episodes, and I opened my phone the
next morning and I'm like, five thousand people, And then
a few weeks go by and it's twenty thousand, then
it gets into the hundreds of thousands, then it gets
up to a million, and I'm just like, oh my goodness,
(32:17):
something is happening here, and people need a platform an
outlet to be heard. And you know, it's not that
they're speaking the truth always, right, but they are certainly
speaking their truth, and that's something to be looked at
and deciphered, you know, by the powers that be. But
it very quickly morphed into more than I ever dreamed
or imagined. I was working a full time job at
(32:39):
the time in housing in a marketing position. And what
I found was as I started doing this podcast that
I was spending more time stepping out of my office
to answer calls from listeners and people that had information
than I was doing the job I was hired and
paid to do. And so I really made a tough
decision at that point my part, Aaron, I said, look,
(33:01):
I believe in what we're doing here. I believe in
this family, I believe in this story. I'm going to
leave my corporate job. I'm going to leave my salary
and benefits, and I'm going to pursue this thing with
my heart's soul, mind and strength. And that's what I
did for two years full time. It was Terror Baker
every day, all day. And that doesn't necessarily mean I
(33:22):
was reporting or interviewing all the time, you know how
it goes. Some nights when I couldn't sleep, I would
just pull down the file book that was three inches
wide of every incident report that occurred in a three
year period in that neighborhood. Right, it was just all
that I could think about. But it was not because
of the podcast work. It was because of her mom,
(33:42):
and it was because every time I wanted to call
and talk to her mom, I wanted, you know, to
be able to say I haven't forgotten, because I felt
like for so long she felt that people had forgotten,
and that was the one thing that she didn't want
to happen. I don't want people to forget. And my goodness, Cheryl,
(34:03):
they're not going to forget now, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
No, sir, and let me tell you something. Now that
you know you've got this accolade in this star in
your crown, don't stop calling me now that you're famous.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Well, infamous might be the better term, but no, you
will always be in my zone, my friend. I mean,
you know, so many people when I first started this
said you are just bonkers.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (34:27):
You know? But when I called you, you said, keep
it up, keep going, keep shaking the trees, keep asking
tough questions, keep letting people talk. And you know, I
can't thank you enough for being encouraging to me. You
mentioned that I was in school when all this was
going on. I went back to school to get a
criminology degree. I graduated two weeks ago. That was all
(34:50):
because Miss Baker encouraged me to do that I love it,
and I went back. I found my passion. So when
I graduated, literally two days after, an arrest was made
by the way, as I walked that stage, I thought,
in my mind, this is for Terra, this is for
Miss Virginia, this is for the Baker family. Because if
it were not for them joining forces with me and
(35:13):
being with me through this, I don't know if I
would have discovered my passion. And my passion is victim advocacy.
It is you know, when you find that the laws
don't work, you either work to change them or work
to create new ones.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Honey, those graduation pictures were so fantastic too. You look
so happy, so happy, thank you, And I felt like
watching those pictures, I thought, you know what, he has
graduated in more than one way. You have started a
new life in more than one way. You are healthy,
you've got a salve under your belt which is tremendous,
You've got a law that you helped create, and now
(35:50):
you've got this degree. I mean, there ain't no stopping you.
I told you to shake some trees, honey, you cut
them mothers down.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, let me tell you I am of faith, Cheryl,
and one thing that I learned from a very young age.
It's my favorite quote. It hangs on my wall at
my office at my big boy job, as I call it.
It hangs in the office at my home, and it
says this, do all the good you can, in all
the ways you can, and all the places you can,
(36:18):
to all the people you can, at all the times
you can, as long as ever you can.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
And I feel that I have a lot of good
to keep doing, and I feel that people listening to
this have a lot of good to keep doing. People
in our community have a lot of good to keep doing.
So my big takeaway from all of this is, let's
just all keep doing the most good because if we
seek to do good, I believe the reward is exactly
what we saw. It is justice, It has answers, is
(36:48):
the truth. So I'm going to keep pursuing justice, not
just for Terra and her family, but there are, as
I mentioned now, thirty nine other unsold homicides in Athens
Clark County dating back to nineteen sixty nine. We know
that there are hundreds across the state of Georgia, and
as a result of the Coleman Baker Act, in addition
to funding the Cold Case Unit at the GBI. What
(37:10):
it also did, which I think is really great, is
it created a reporting requirement and a data colection requirement
for us to learn how many UNSAW homicides to eat
this each agency have record off across the state. Because
here's what I believe. I believe when we get that
data and finalize it, we're going to see, hey, this
might be a bigger problem than we thought it was.
(37:32):
And once we have that data and information, what are
we able to do allocating more time, more resources, more
funding to get things done. So I'm really looking forward
to seeing that come to fruition.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Too, y'all. I'm going to end Zone seven the way
I always do with a quote. I am Tara's mother,
I always will be Tara's mother, Virginia Baker. I'm Cheryl McCollum,
and this is Own seven
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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