May 14, 2025 • 46 mins
The Connecticut River Valley serial killer is believed to be responsible for a string of brutal murders that occurred between 1978 and 1988 across the wooded border region of New Hampshire and Vermont. The killer targeted at least seven women, many of whom were young and found stabbed to death in remote areas.
Guest Bio and Links:
Jane Boroski Co-Owner and the Host of Invisible Tears. She is an advocate for mental health, PTSD Awareness and healing. She is the only known survivor of the CT River Valley Serial Killer and is on a mission to help and heal others by sharing her experiences and having a platform to allow others to do the same.
Amanda Bedard is Co-Owner, Co-Host, Producer and Editor of Invisible Tears. She pulls on her Life Coaching and Trauma Certification experience to help advocate for mental health, truth and healing, in practice and through the podcast. Amanda is also a certified Reiki Master and heals clients through energy work.
Drew Bedard is Co-Owner, Co-Host, Producer and Researcher of Invisible Tears. A Life-long passion of his is true-crime and researching serial killers and cases, most likely stemming from knowing Jane his entire life. As the glue that holds the team together, he is passionate about having a platform for Jane and others to speak their truth.
Listeners can learn more about Invisible Tears Podcast at their website
In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum sits down with Jane Boroski, the only known survivor of the Connecticut River Valley serial killer. Attacked while seven months pregnant and left for dead after 27 stab wounds, Jane recounts the unthinkable night of her assault and the slow, painful road to healing. Amanda and Drew Bedard, Jane’s closest allies and collaborators on the Invisible Tears podcast also join the conversation. Together, they reflect how trauma, PTSD, and survivor’s guilt shaped Jane’s life, and how advocacy became her path to meaning.
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome back to Zone 7 with Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum
- (0:30) Sheryl welcomes guests, Jane Boroski, and Amanda and Drew Bedard to Zone 7
- (2:00) The fatal night in 1988
- (5:00) Jane describes the struggle, fighting back, and fleeing
- (6:00) ”And so I'm driving down the road and next thing I know, I'm right behind him…he's right in front of me.” - Jane describing her escape
- (10:30) Reiki - how energy healing works
- (13:30) Drew shares how Invisible Tears Podcast was born from a conversation
- (19:00) Understanding PTSD in survivors
- (22:00) Amanda discusses the responsibility of hosting a trauma-focused show
- (22:30) The team reflects on burnout, boundaries, and honoring survivor anniversaries
- (28:00) Giving voice to the voiceless
- (30:00) Raising awareness for unsolved cases
- (39:00) The possibility of a new composite remade
- (41:00) Coalition for the missing and murdered
- (46:00) “ I was seven months pregnant. I was stabbed 27 times, but not one to my baby.” - Jane Boroski
- Thanks for listening to another episode! If you’re loving the show and want to help grow the show, please head over to Itunes and leave a rating and review!
---
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Gr
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
It was August sixth, nineteen eighty eight. Jan Borowski was
seven months pregnant. She had been at the fair, having
a fabulous time. She got hot, she got tired, so
as she's driving home, she thought, I'm gonna stop at
this convenience store and get me something to drink. Well,
(00:31):
the convenience store was closed, but as luck would have it,
they had a vendom machine outside. So she parked her car,
rummaged through her pursed, tried to find some change, went
up to the vendom machine and it took her money.
So she went back to her car, got more change,
and went back to the vending machine, and then things
(00:55):
went away that she would have never thought possible in
her deepest nightmares. She was only twenty two years old.
Now this story has a miracle attached to it, So
y'all stay with me. Our guest tonight is not just
(01:16):
a survivor. She's the only survivor of the Connecticut River
Valley serial killer. And y'all, she's brought her own Zone
seven with her. Please help me. Welcome Jane Barowski, Amanda Bettered,
(01:36):
and Drew Bettered. Y'all, welcome to Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you so happy to be here. Thank you for
having us.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
We appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Well, let me tell you what's remarkable. Some of y'all
may already know their names. They're from the Invisible Tears podcast.
Y'all know what I'm talking about. That podcast that goes
deep into what happened to Jane and then what she
did with it, and y'all you know, sometimes you think,
(02:10):
how in the world does something like this happen to
somebody and they turn around and use it for good. Well,
we're gonna talk about that too, because that's exactly what
she's doing. Jane. Why don't you talk about what happened
that night just a little bit, and then I want
(02:33):
to bring Amanda and Drew back in and let's talk
about what you're doing currently. Does that sound okay?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That sounds great? Thank you. Yeah, I everything you said.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
Went to affairs, stopped for a soda. I'm sitting there
drinking my soda and a vehicle pulled in part beside
me on my passenger side of my car.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Didn't think anything of it. I'd like to add that
Swansea is a very small town in New Hampshire and
in nineteen eighty eight. It had virtually no major crime,
so I felt safe.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Next thing I know, I see him in my rear
view mirror walking behind my car, went up to my
car door and tried to take me out of the car.
We struggled. We thought I thought I kicked him. I
ended up smashing my windshield because I went to kick
him and I kicked my windshield. And then he took
(03:41):
a knife out and said, maybe this will persuade you
to get out of the car, which it did.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I got out of the car, and he was confusing
to me.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
For one he he told me that I beat up
his girlfriend, which obviously I had not, and he asked
me or mentioned that my car was a Massachusetts car,
which I was like, no, I have new Hampshire plates
on my car. So he kind of like walked away
from me and went to the back of the car.
(04:20):
And I'm thinking, okay, he's confused. It took me, you know,
I took my safeguard down, thought that, you know, he
mistaken me for somebody else. And the next thing I know,
I see him walking towards his vehicle. Well then I'm like,
I'm sitting here with a smash windshield, so I'm like, hey,
(04:45):
what about my windshield? And those are the words that
I regret for the rest of my life. He came
back around put the knife up against my neck and
I'm standing there and he was still wanting me to
go with him, and I knew in my mind if
I went with him, I probably would not be alive today.
(05:09):
So I saw a vehicle coming down the road headlights
and I said to myself, Okay, the only way I'm
getting myself out of this situation is to run as
fast as I can to the road and scream.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And I did.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
I just took right off, started running towards the road.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
The vehicle was coming.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
I'm screaming, and the vehicle just drove right by, and
the next thing I know, he like tackled me down
like a football player, got me on my back. I
was laying on the ground on my back and he
got on top of me, and before I knew it,
he was stabbing me multiple times. And he stopped and
(05:56):
got up walked away, And by this time I'm bleeding
and I'm trying to get myself up, and I rolled
myself over to my stomach and I get up on
my hands and knees, and he drives by me and
looked right down at me.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I looked right up at him, and he just drove off.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
So I did everything I could to get to my vehicle,
got in my vehicle, started it, and I had a
friend of mine that lived about two miles down the road.
So I knew if I could just get to his house,
you know, I would be able to get help. And
so I'm driving down the road and next thing I know,
(06:37):
I'm right behind him.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
He's right in front of me.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
You know, Jane, I got to tell you, that's part
of the story that gave me, I think, the most chills.
For some reason, I was not expecting that when I
first heard your story.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Oh I was not needle something.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Oh yep. But for some reason, the idea that you
were able to catch up to him and realize he's
ahead of you. Oh lord, All right, go ahead, honey,
I'm sorry, I just had.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
To That's okay.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
So he was in front of me, and my biggest
fear was he was going to see where I turned
the driveway that I was turning into. And so I
got to the driveway, I pulled in the driveway, he went,
He went four straight. I went up to my friend's door. Well,
I didn't even get to the door. I got to
the bottom of the little steps that goes up to
(07:33):
the door, and I was just like, you need to
get me help. Some asshole just stabbed the crap out
of me and I collapsed on the steps and next
thing I know, we hear the vehicle come back by
the house the opposite way, and we heard squealed tires
(07:54):
and then it left in them just disappeared in the night.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So I was I'm fortunate to be alive. I was
stabbed twenty seven times.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
He sliced my juggler in my neck, I had two
collapse lungs, a cut tendon in my thumb, a cut
tendon in my knee. I had a lot of defensive wounds.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So let me just ask you, he thought he left
you for dead?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I believe so, yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So when he realized, wait a minute, that's her car.
Because you had a very distinct car. Tell everybody your
car because you love that car.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh, I did love my car.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I had a nineteen eighty five Firebird white right on it,
red interior. It was absolutely gorgeous. I absolutely loved the car.
Loved it, and you know, I loved it so much
that I kept it. Obviously that there was a lot
of blood and everything in the car, and so while
(08:57):
I was in the hospital, my husband had it clean detailed.
After the police were done fingerprinting it and doing all
their forensics and gathering evidence, my husband had it detailed
and he wanted to sell it, and I was like, no,
(09:18):
that's my car.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You're selling my car. I love that car.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
There's nothing like a car that you just you just
dig it, like that's your set of wheels.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
You know, absolutely.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
That was a nineteen eighty five Firebirds where the nicest
sports cars.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Uh, and it drove so nice.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So let's talk about your support system. I want to
bring Amanda in first, because Amanda, you're a trauma expert,
but you also have something that is in your wheelhouse
that I think is pretty powerful and we don't talk
about it a lot. People don't maybe know a lot
about it. You deal with energy, and I think that
(10:04):
anybody that's ever been in a traumatic situation that had
somebody just touch their hand knows the power of touch.
I think making sure that people are intuitive and that
they are ever present. I think that's one of the
most important things, Amanda. I was at a wedding about
(10:24):
a year and a half ago, and the preacher told
the couple to turn around and just take it in
that this was going to go by so fast and
there were going to be things they didn't remember, and
he basically just made them take that moment. And I thought,
that's one of the most powerful things I've ever seen
(10:46):
at a wedding. So tell everybody a little bit about
what it is you do to help Jane.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, sure, So I'm actually a wreaky master teacher, and
so as you speak about energy, So, Reikie is a
form of energy work where I channel universal energy through
myself and help clients as I tune into their energy field.
And while that sounds really, you know, kind of like
(11:15):
kooky sometimes for people listening to it, just think about
it like this. Absolutely everything is energy, and when anybody
goes through any sort of situation, possibly trauma, maybe something
great or something that's not so great, it actually imprints
energy into your energy field. So as a reiki master,
(11:40):
what I do is I tune into people's energy fields
and I help them cleanse anything that may be stuck
in their energy field. A lot of times people don't
realize that pain can manifest in your energy field.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, you can get diseases for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, yep.
So let me ask you this, Drew. I noticed that
you and Amanda have the same last name. Is there
a reason for that? Sorry? Ah?
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Yes, Amanda is my wife.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Okay. And then you have mentioned that you've known Jane
your whole life, So tell us how the three of
y'all teamed up. Ah.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yes, So, Jane and her husband Dennis have been friends
with my parents for my entire life. One of my
earlier childhood memories is I actually do remember watching The
Unsolved Mysteries when they covered Jane's case, so at a
very early age. That did sort of leave that imprint
and really did kick off my intrigue with true crime.
(12:48):
And with Jane being so close to the family, it
was very difficult for me because I wanted to ask
her so many questions about the case, but I didn't
want to bring it up because we were way too close.
I didn't want to broach that subject. I didn't know
if she was ready to talk about he or anything
like that. And then this was probably about ten fifteen
(13:10):
years ago, Jane and I were sitting around campfire at
a campground in New Hampshire and she just looks at
me and goes, you know, Andrew, have I ever showed
you the scars? And it instantly opened up kind of
like that book, where I could just ask her questions
about it, you know, who the current suspect at that
(13:30):
time was, and just kind of do a little bit
of a deep dive with being able to ask her
those questions that I kind of always wanted to know,
and it made it very good for our relationship as well.
And then it was around the when the pandemic kicked off,
Jane and her daughter Jessica were listening to some episodes
talking about the Connecticut Valley case and they were in
(13:54):
there going god, there's a lot of you know, wrong information,
or the story is not really adding up, or they're
talking about this and doesn't make sense, and they're like,
why don't we do our podcast and actually tell the
full story? But they didn't really know where to start,
and Jane was like, don't. I don't know how to
(14:14):
do this, and Jessica goes ask Andrew. So Jane sent
me a text and was like, Hey, do you got
do you want to go out to lunch? I've got
a great idea. So we went to a Longhorn Sta
Longhorned Steakhouse in Keene, New Hampshire, Jane, Me, Amanda and
Jess and we sat there and just kind of talked
(14:34):
about what the plans would be if we did want
to do a show. And Amanda and I were absolutely
honored because for me it was a if I can
help Jane, give her a platform to tell her story
how it happened, but then also what happened to her
after the fact. Because being a family friend, I was
able to witness a lot of the stuff, even though
(14:57):
Jane was she'll be admit to it, keeping a lot
of stuff on the down low. So there was a
lot that we didn't know, but we did know some
of the some of the stuff that was happening to her.
So I just wanted to give her that opportunity to
try to not only tell her story, but also if
she can help somebody that also went through something traumatic.
(15:17):
Amandon and I were going to be there to support
her as best we could to try to put this
podcast together.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Jane, how important was it for you to not just
have support but to have two people that are willing
to say, hey, you may not understand this energy thing,
but I'm going to try to help you, and then
Andrews saying hey, I'm going to help run this thing
and produce it and have all of that at your disposal.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh as blessed today. I am blessed.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
We've become a great team. You know, I wanted a
platform to share I suffered PTSD for a long time
because of my attack, and I know there's a lot
of people out there that also have gone through trauma
(16:16):
and have PTSD, but they don't really know how to
actually go about to getting help. It took me over
twenty years to actually see a counselor for the first
time about my attack and about what happened to me.
So to when they just when they accepted and they
(16:43):
were like, yeah, let's do this. I was elated. I
was I felt blessed. I was like, Okay, now I
have a platform to tell my story. Because you know,
when you go through something traumatic like I've gone through,
the story doesn't end with Okay, she healed physically, she's
out of the hospital, she goes home. Story done. It
(17:06):
doesn't happen that way. I may have healed very quickly physically,
but not mentally. Mentally took years.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
You made the news before you even got released from
the hospital. You didn't know whether or not he was
coming back exactly, especially once he knew your name.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yep, exactly exactly. And that was the thing.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Back then, they put the victim's names all over media,
and they don't do that today. If the victim has survived,
you don't see the victim's name anymore, especially if the
case is unsolved. But yeah, back then was a very
very different time, and so I, you know, I lived
(17:46):
with a lot of fear for a long time, and
it kind of produced other things in me, like anger
and survivor's guilt and anxiety and night mayors and so
I had, you know, I had all the symptoms of PTSD,
(18:08):
but I at the time, I didn't know I had
PTSD until I went to my counselor. And my counselor
was like, hey, here's some symptoms of PTSD. I really
think you have PTSD. Go home, and you know, look
at the paper and look look at the symptoms. Because
I was like, PTSD is for like you know, servicemen
and women that have seen the unspeakable overseas, you know.
(18:32):
But I read that and I was like blown away.
But yet at the same time, I was like, oh
my god, now I have PTSD.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Now what?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
And that's what I said to her. I was like, okay,
you got me. I have PTSD. Now what.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
And she's like, we start healing you. Those were words
I have never heard. I never heard those before.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
She's the one that And you know, it's shocking that
you know, here you are in the middle of this
horrific event, yet you had not ever been told or.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Sat and thought. I not only witnessed something unspeakable, I
had something unspeakable happened to me, and as somebody's trying
to kill me, I'm trying to protect my unborn child. Afterwards,
I think I'm still being hunted. I don't know where
he's at. I don't know if he's going to strike again.
(19:29):
They asked you to do a composite, and you know,
you can't even speak. You've got to blink yes or
no for the composite. Tell everybody about that.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
So I was.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
I believe it was like day two or day three
when I was in the hospital. I was in intensive care.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I see you.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
I had a ventilator, and the detectives came in with
this box of slides, and they were like different eyes
and different noses and different mouths and different faces and hair,
and so I had all kinds of different slides. And
because I had a ventilator, they were trying to make
(20:15):
a composite to spread around so that they could put
that in the news and put flyers out and stuff.
So I had to blink when they showed me eyes
or nose. I had to blink once for yes and
two for no. I think, you know, I look back
(20:35):
and I thought about this a couple of years ago.
I looked back on that, and it's like, I wonder
if they thought they needed to get this composite out
because they didn't think I was going to survive.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
And we don't know where he's at and he gets
strike again. I mean, I'm sure it was a parallel concern,
but you know, you're talking about both your lungs and
carotid artery. I mean, he wasn't playing. He literally thought
you were going to die right there in that parking lot.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I think he expected me to but I didn't.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
No, you did, not, Sugar Amanda, when you talk about,
you know, we're gonna do this and it's going to
be victim centered and we're going to have a platform
where other people can, you know, get help and tell
their story. How difficult is it for you to make
sure that you stay true to what y'all want to do,
(21:29):
that you don't make an off handed joke that you
don't not think about, Hey, this is the anniversary of
when she was attacked, this is the anniversary when she
was let out of the hospital, this is the anniversary
of you know, the other victims. Like, that's a lot
on you too.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
M Yeah, Yeah, it absolutely is. I definitely think that
all of us can probably agree that. Since we've been
in this podcasting space, and now, mind you, none of
us were podcasters before. We had to teach ourselves, right,
So as we've been sort of stumbling along this path,
(22:11):
we've we've definitely we've learned quite a few things. I
think now we are all finally at the point where
we all understand that we are victim advocates. We see
the work that we've done, we see who we've helped,
and we're extremely proud of that and that sort of
(22:32):
keeps us keeps us going and gives us momentum to
keep going. I do have to say from a personal perspective,
being within this space, especially like for myself personally, being
very sensitive to energy, being very you know, compassionate and
victim centric and that sort of thing. It being in
this space has been hard for me sometimes I need to,
(22:57):
you know, take some mental health today, is myself right,
and just sort of decompress and just remember why we
are doing what we're doing, and we're in it to help,
and we're in it for the right reasons.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I preach work life balance. That balance is so important.
You've got to do something tough like I know today
is tough on Jane. I know it, which is another
reason I think you and Drew are so important. And
Drew I was going to ask, you know, when she's
got to gear up, She's got to tell this again.
(23:31):
You know, this is not entertainment. This is her life.
And you know, one thing that I have learned, whether
it's talking to Jane or talking to Kathy Kleiner, they
have this same just experience in that the killer would
be killer was not in a hurry, he wasn't anxious,
(23:53):
he wasn't just out of control, it's it's the opposite
of Sometimes we envision and like if we were writ
in this horror movie the way we would make the killer.
He's calculated, he's calm. He jives past her and just
looks at her and keeps going and goes slow. He's
not speeding out of there. So when you're dealing with
(24:17):
Jane before the show, during the show, which again I'm
glad y'all are here for her, and then after the show,
how important is that.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
It's very important for us to make sure that Jane
is in the right headspace. If something is hitting her
too hard, we definitely pull the rains back and we
kind of look at the day that Jane is having.
And a lot of times there is very good days
where she's an open book and we can ask her
as much questions as possible. Like, you know, there is
(24:48):
one day where we just sat down and we were like, okay, Jane,
put yourself back when you were laying on the pavement.
Do you remember the sound of the shoes that were
making as he was walking across the pavement. You know,
what type of clothing was he wear? Like, trying to
bring her back to that moment, to try to grasp
any detail that she might have, but also knowing there's
(25:09):
going to be certain times when she is not mentally
in the right frame of mind to talk. But I
think with the work that we've been doing, and especially
with Jane being able to talk to other survivors, being
you know, really getting into the advocacy headspace, she's ready
to talk and ready to take on a lot more
weight as she's not just advocating for herself anymore, but
(25:33):
she's advocating for the seven other women that were killed,
you know, within the Connecticut Valley as well as some
other cases. So she has definitely taken on a lot
of the weight of that. But we're just here to
support her and try to help her out as much
as possible, whether that's people coming with information, you know,
sometimes it's information that I know would just set her
(25:57):
off a little bit. Yeah, No, it wasn't that. It's okay.
I will keep that information. I'll just give her a
summary of it, but kind of make sure that it's
something that's not gonna, you know, kind of send her
into a little bit of a tailsman.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Well, Jane, this tickles me a little bit because Amanda
and Drew both they almost sound like they're very calm,
they're very in touch and being kind and gracious. Girl,
you're a pistol. Let me tell you something. That man
had already pulled a knifef on you, and you're like, hey, dude,
(26:36):
what about my crackweindshield, Like, what's up like paying for that?
So I think again that balance. I don't know you
that well, Jane, but I'm just saying I've heard you
talk on more than one interview, and I mean, you're
You're just a boss, right, I mean you you are her,
you are you know, you've got that vibrato about you.
(26:58):
I think you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
I do, I do, and you know, I to kind
of backtrack to I Andrew. One of the things that
helps me keeps me centered and grounded and stuff is
the advocating is helping others. I know when somebody comes
(27:21):
on our podcast and they tell their loved one story,
I know that we're helping them. So that helps me.
That helps me a lot. You know, the advocating has
been so therapeutic for us, especially for me. It just
knowing that telling my story has helped other people. We
(27:45):
get emails. I've had several emails of people telling me
I was in a domestic relationship, violent relationship for years
and I finally got out. And for fifteen years, I've
known I needed counseling, but never have done it. And
they email me and tell me I just made my
(28:06):
first appointment for counseling because they heard my podcast. That
is huge, Like, that's what we had always said from
the beginning. If we could help that one person, then
we've done our job. This is what we wanted to do.
This is what we're doing, and we have. We've helped several.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
You have every right to just want to be in
the bed all the time and upset, but you're using
it for good. Something so horrible and you're turning it
to say, you know what, I'm going to help other people.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
Well, I felt so alone for so many years, like
I didn't know somebody else that had gone through something
so traumatic as I have been through. So who do
you talk to? Who do you you know? I didn't
know Kathy Klein.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Then you know.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
There's not and there's no books out there. Oh, I
survived a serial killers. So what am I supposed to
do now for the rest you know, the rest of
my life? There there's nothing out there. So I was
lost for a long long time. And if I was
lost after I've gone through something traumatic like this, I
(29:21):
know there's other people out there that have that have
been feeling the same way as I was for years.
And so in telling my story and getting it out
and and you know, like I said before, one of
the most important parts of my story is not my attack,
it's my life after the attack. I mean, it wasn't
(29:45):
it wasn't easy. It was very hard for a long time,
but it was also something that helped build me to
the person that the person that I am today, and
that's you know, I can't put a price on that
(30:05):
or anything, but my podcast allows me to do this
and to be the person I want to be.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
These crimes occurred between nineteen seventy eight and nineteen eighty seven.
There are seven women that they know are connected to
this killer, but there's possibly many many more. Talk about
that a little bit about how you're trying to advocate
for all of the victims and potential victims.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
We've been doing the rallies up at the AG's office
in Conquered New Hampshire. They're starting to open these cases
up and looking at him at them a lot more.
One thing I like that they're doing now is instead
of looking at them all as a whole, they're individually
investigating them.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Now.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
Back in the eighties, I think there was a lot
of speculation that there was one killer.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Now it's like, I'm not sure they're doing.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
They're doing a lot more investigating individually. And that's super
important because I think that they'll get further with maybe
once they solve one case, maybe they can solve another
that's connected, that's connected to that case.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
I think that's the right approach individually, and then you know,
deconstruct it and build it back up.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
I agree, But I mean, what do I say to
other women? You know, the world is not a safe place,
and we it's funny. We just I just did a video.
There's several unsolved murders happening in Cannnecticuette, Massachusetts, and Rhode
(32:02):
Island right now. They've been finding all kinds of bodies
and remains the past couple of months.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
And I did a.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
Video on it yesterday, And you know, I'm frustrated that
law enforcement doesn't give out very much information. And I
get some of their reasons, I really do, But when
they call every single case not suspicious, that just doesn't
(32:34):
sound right. And that's what they do in the Hampshire
a lot. But what I would rather have them say
is the case is being investigated, but be vigilant. And
that was part of my video yesterday. It was like
I wanted people to know, yes, there is a possibility
(32:54):
that there's a serial killer out there, no proof yet,
but I want this information to be spread so women
or people can be more vigilant. Like walking going on
a trail hike, don't go one at a time, do two,
be a buddy system, Carrie Peppers Ray. Be aware of
(33:18):
your surroundings. Don't wear earbuds if you're alone jogging. That way,
you're more aware of what your surroundings are, and you know,
you can hear if somebody's you know, behind you, are
coming to coming towards you, different things like that. That's
(33:38):
why law enforcement kind of frustrates me with this because
they try to put everybody at ease, but they're not
thinking about people that aren't being vigilant about what they're
doing and about their surroundings. And so, you know, I
wish people would be more vigilant. I don't want to
(34:01):
scare people, Like with my video, I didn't want to
scare anybody, but I wanted people to know that, you know,
there's a possibility of this be vigilant.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
So Drew this killer killed in a fifty mile radius.
You are a serial killer researcher, that's your area. What
does that tell you about the potential true number of victims?
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Yeah, we do. We do think that it wasn't just
north and south along the you know, the I ninety
one corridor. We do believe that it might have also
gone a little bit east to west, going from the
Vermont State boarder over into Maine. There's a lot of
bodies that turned up, you know, throughout central New Hampshire
(34:47):
and Maine around the same timeframe that were similar enough
to you know, get on our radar. And I know
that I was talking with a family friend who was
a good, good friend with a cop from Unity and
the authorities in that small town also believe that there
was an east to west corridor as well, that this
(35:09):
this killer was also conducting attacks. And so but we
haven't We've been pretty good with We honestly do not
know who the suspect is. We are trying to identify
what cases might be tied and which ones might not be. Now,
if you look at the eight attacks within the Connecticut
Valley cases, the similarities are definitely they're in the same
(35:32):
area of New Hampshire and Vermont. But if you do
look at each case, you're gonna find something that doesn't
quite line up with another one. There might be a
piece here that connects you know, the first and the
second case, but then there's an outlier between them. But
then there's a commonality between you know, the second and
the seventh case. So we definitely look at it with
(35:53):
an open eye, going is it one or is it
possibly two? Now, when we had first start our conversation,
you know, the theory of him being a hunter or
a fisherman was pretty prominent. But I was definitely of
the mindset of he had to have had some hunting
and fishing background. And in Linda Moore's case, in particular,
(36:18):
the woman who was attacked in her home in Bella's Falls,
it was an outlier because she was attacked in her home.
Everybody else was sort of in a public place. But
I looked at it as from a hunter fisherman's perspective.
In her home was right along a river that you
could fish along, so I theorized that he was he
(36:41):
would go out hunting. Now, whether that was driving around,
I don't necessarily think it was driving around. I think
you would treat it almost like he was in a
deer stand. He would find a spot and sit there
and wait to see if somebody would come by that
would that would be within his demographics of a possible victim.
And that's why I think with Linda Moore in particular,
I think he was fishing along the river and as
(37:03):
he was walking along the river, he stumbled upon her
and saw her in her backyard and just he became overwhelmed,
and that's why that attack happened. And we didn't find
out until about a year and a half ago from
the police reports that they did actually find some some
twigs and branches that could have only come from the backyard.
(37:24):
So that did sort of help kind of solidify that
a little bit with you know, we do believe this
is what his background.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Is interesting, and you've got victims that were hitchhiking in
parking lots, rest stops. It certainly would check that he
waits for somebody to come into his path, almost like
a deer gets in that clear and if you're in
the tree stand.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
So yeah, exactly, and with jeans attack being aka Marlow's,
it's right in, you know, right in the hometown area.
So I'd drive by it countless times and I would
there and kind of put myself in the position of
if I was driving by and saw the car, would
I pull in? Or there's enough spots in that parking
(38:11):
lot where you could sit in a car sitting in
it and nobody would even realize you were there. So
I kind of put myself in that mindset of going,
you know what, there is this one spot in that
parking lot where you can sit in the dark, nobody
can see you, but you can see traffic coming from
both sides, and you can also tell if there are
multiple people in the vehicle or just a single person.
(38:33):
So in Jane's case, he would have been able to
see that it was a single woman pulling into the
parking lot, because we did sit down with Jane and
ask her did she remember the car actually pulling into
the parking lot and did she remember which anglic came
in and she could not quite remember. So it's one
of those where there's no clear evidence as to was
(38:56):
he just driving by or was he possibly hanging out
there in that parking lot.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
All right, Jane, I'm going to ask you something, and
I'm going to offer you something. I happen to know
the world's best forensic artist. If you would like to
redo the composite, or if you would like to do
what we call an age progression, I would be willing
(39:27):
to get that done for you. So you just think
about that, because if you don't think that that composite
is good enough, you need to add ears, if the
hair's not right, if you remember something about scars on
the face or anything that we need to change, we
can do that. So, Jane, I hear something about a coalition.
(39:50):
What's that about, Honey?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I think I'm going to turn that part over to
Amanda because Amanda can explain it way better than I
can see.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
Y'all.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Well, that's why having a Z seven is so important.
Go ahead, Amanda. We always have each other's bags, don't we.
And she might have just psychically known that I had
the press releases actually already printed out right here for reference,
just to make sure I get the dates right.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Thanks, Jane. Yeah, So with our journey, that we've been
on with Invisible Tears. Obviously we have met some amazing
people who are doing advocating for their family as well.
So in the spring, late spring, early summer of twenty
twenty three, myself, Drew and Jane combined forces with Julie Murray,
(40:39):
who is the sister of Maura Murray, who I'm sure
that a lot of people have heard of. Yes, we
we adore Julie as well and her entire family. We
combined forces with Julie also Shana from Light the Way.
She has an amazing advocacy program where she just simply
(41:00):
helps people that are advocating for cases. We also combined
with some family members from Trish Haynes family, Valerie Haynes
and Carrie and Wilson from Trish Haynes's family. And what
we all did was we all got together, we all
(41:20):
hopped on a zoom and we said, I think we
need to form a group. And so what we did
was we actually ended up forming the New Hampshire Coalition
of Families for the Missing and Murdered and we started
having annual rallies. And what we do is once a year,
or right now I should say it's once a year,
(41:41):
we gather. We do a big event mid August and
we either do it in front of the capital in
Conquered New Hampshire. The first one was at the Attorney
General's Office, but they've since moved that so it's right
in the center of Conquered New Hampshire. Gather and we
speak and we simply bring visibility to all the cases
(42:08):
that aren't solved, all the people that are missing. We
welcome people speaking at it. We always make sure and
invite the Attorney General's Office and any law enforcement that
wants to come as well and sort of collaborate with us.
But we're what we're really looking for is we're looking
to raise awareness, reform the victim advocacy program, improve communication
(42:33):
with both the state and with investigators, and really just
secure justice for victims.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Well, Jane, I don't think we can in this thing
without talking about the absolute miracle, the hand to God
moment within this case.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
I actually have two miracles. My daughter that I was
pregnant with, she had a rough road. She had to
fight for her life for quite a few weeks. She
was born a blue baby, so she had no blood pressure,
(43:11):
so but she fought for her life for a few weeks.
She survived, and uh, she's my best friend and I
can't imagine life without her. And she also blessed me
with a granddaughter.
Speaker 7 (43:29):
Oh congratulations, So I have eleven year old granddaughter, which
she is. She's something she's going through adolescents right now.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
But she's a sweetheart.
Speaker 5 (43:43):
She's her goal is to advocate for bullying in school.
But yeah, I my daughter survived, and uh, she tries
to as much as she can. She's a part of
everything that we do. She's a part of the coalition's
(44:03):
she does all her traveling with me when I go
to speak at different places. And so, yeah, she's she's amazing.
She's uh she's not had life easy. Uh, but she
does the best that she can and I'm grateful for
(44:24):
and she's the reason.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Why I'm alive.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
I truly believe she wanted to live, and that's why
I survived my attack.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Amanda, thank you so much for joining us, for giving
us your insight, and just being willing to help Jane
every day. I appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Oh, of course, thank you so much. And believe me,
I wouldn't I wouldn't have it any other way. I
love Jane. And I protect her fiercely.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Oh are you're going to make me cry?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Awesome?
Speaker 3 (44:57):
I hope my energy is coming through hoping fail it.
You have fantastic energy, you really do.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I'll hear that.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I'm gonna put that on my business card. And Drew, listen.
I mean, I love what you're doing. I love the
fact that Amanda and Jane call you the glue of
what y'all are doing. I think that's a great title.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
Honey, thank you very much. Who's great talking to you.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
I don't even have words. I mean, I just not
only appreciate you coming and telling your story again. I
know it's not easy, but I think that's why it's
so important that we get the word out that the
three of you, through the Invisible Tears podcast and your
coalition and your advocacy, that people need to know how
(45:43):
to get in touch with and reach you so you
can keep helping all these people. And I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
I thank you very much for.
Speaker 5 (45:52):
Letting us be on your show and telling my story.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Y'all. I'm on end Zone seven. The way that I
always is due with a quote. I was seven months pregnant,
I was stabbed twenty seven times, but not one to
my baby Jane Barowski. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is
Zone seven.
It was August sixth, nineteen eighty eight. Jan Borowski was
seven months pregnant. She had been at the fair, having
a fabulous time. She got hot, she got tired, so
as she's driving home, she thought, I'm gonna stop at
this convenience store and get me something to drink. Well,
(00:31):
the convenience store was closed, but as luck would have it,
they had a vendom machine outside. So she parked her car,
rummaged through her pursed, tried to find some change, went
up to the vendom machine and it took her money.
So she went back to her car, got more change,
and went back to the vending machine, and then things
(00:55):
went away that she would have never thought possible in
her deepest nightmares. She was only twenty two years old.
Now this story has a miracle attached to it, So
y'all stay with me. Our guest tonight is not just
(01:16):
a survivor. She's the only survivor of the Connecticut River
Valley serial killer. And y'all, she's brought her own Zone
seven with her. Please help me. Welcome Jane Barowski, Amanda Bettered,
(01:36):
and Drew Bettered. Y'all, welcome to Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you so happy to be here. Thank you for
having us.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
We appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Well, let me tell you what's remarkable. Some of y'all
may already know their names. They're from the Invisible Tears podcast.
Y'all know what I'm talking about. That podcast that goes
deep into what happened to Jane and then what she
did with it, and y'all you know, sometimes you think,
(02:10):
how in the world does something like this happen to
somebody and they turn around and use it for good. Well,
we're gonna talk about that too, because that's exactly what
she's doing. Jane. Why don't you talk about what happened
that night just a little bit, and then I want
(02:33):
to bring Amanda and Drew back in and let's talk
about what you're doing currently. Does that sound okay?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That sounds great? Thank you. Yeah, I everything you said.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
Went to affairs, stopped for a soda. I'm sitting there
drinking my soda and a vehicle pulled in part beside
me on my passenger side of my car.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Didn't think anything of it. I'd like to add that
Swansea is a very small town in New Hampshire and
in nineteen eighty eight. It had virtually no major crime,
so I felt safe.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Next thing I know, I see him in my rear
view mirror walking behind my car, went up to my
car door and tried to take me out of the car.
We struggled. We thought I thought I kicked him. I
ended up smashing my windshield because I went to kick
him and I kicked my windshield. And then he took
(03:41):
a knife out and said, maybe this will persuade you
to get out of the car, which it did.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I got out of the car, and he was confusing
to me.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
For one he he told me that I beat up
his girlfriend, which obviously I had not, and he asked
me or mentioned that my car was a Massachusetts car,
which I was like, no, I have new Hampshire plates
on my car. So he kind of like walked away
from me and went to the back of the car.
(04:20):
And I'm thinking, okay, he's confused. It took me, you know,
I took my safeguard down, thought that, you know, he
mistaken me for somebody else. And the next thing I know,
I see him walking towards his vehicle. Well then I'm like,
I'm sitting here with a smash windshield, so I'm like, hey,
(04:45):
what about my windshield? And those are the words that
I regret for the rest of my life. He came
back around put the knife up against my neck and
I'm standing there and he was still wanting me to
go with him, and I knew in my mind if
I went with him, I probably would not be alive today.
(05:09):
So I saw a vehicle coming down the road headlights
and I said to myself, Okay, the only way I'm
getting myself out of this situation is to run as
fast as I can to the road and scream.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And I did.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
I just took right off, started running towards the road.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
The vehicle was coming.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
I'm screaming, and the vehicle just drove right by, and
the next thing I know, he like tackled me down
like a football player, got me on my back. I
was laying on the ground on my back and he
got on top of me, and before I knew it,
he was stabbing me multiple times. And he stopped and
(05:56):
got up walked away, And by this time I'm bleeding
and I'm trying to get myself up, and I rolled
myself over to my stomach and I get up on
my hands and knees, and he drives by me and
looked right down at me.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I looked right up at him, and he just drove off.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
So I did everything I could to get to my vehicle,
got in my vehicle, started it, and I had a
friend of mine that lived about two miles down the road.
So I knew if I could just get to his house,
you know, I would be able to get help. And
so I'm driving down the road and next thing I know,
(06:37):
I'm right behind him.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
He's right in front of me.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
You know, Jane, I got to tell you, that's part
of the story that gave me, I think, the most chills.
For some reason, I was not expecting that when I
first heard your story.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Oh I was not needle something.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Oh yep. But for some reason, the idea that you
were able to catch up to him and realize he's
ahead of you. Oh lord, All right, go ahead, honey,
I'm sorry, I just had.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
To That's okay.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
So he was in front of me, and my biggest
fear was he was going to see where I turned
the driveway that I was turning into. And so I
got to the driveway, I pulled in the driveway, he went,
He went four straight. I went up to my friend's door. Well,
I didn't even get to the door. I got to
the bottom of the little steps that goes up to
(07:33):
the door, and I was just like, you need to
get me help. Some asshole just stabbed the crap out
of me and I collapsed on the steps and next
thing I know, we hear the vehicle come back by
the house the opposite way, and we heard squealed tires
(07:54):
and then it left in them just disappeared in the night.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So I was I'm fortunate to be alive. I was
stabbed twenty seven times.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
He sliced my juggler in my neck, I had two
collapse lungs, a cut tendon in my thumb, a cut
tendon in my knee. I had a lot of defensive wounds.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So let me just ask you, he thought he left
you for dead?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I believe so, yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So when he realized, wait a minute, that's her car.
Because you had a very distinct car. Tell everybody your
car because you love that car.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh, I did love my car.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I had a nineteen eighty five Firebird white right on it,
red interior. It was absolutely gorgeous. I absolutely loved the car.
Loved it, and you know, I loved it so much
that I kept it. Obviously that there was a lot
of blood and everything in the car, and so while
(08:57):
I was in the hospital, my husband had it clean detailed.
After the police were done fingerprinting it and doing all
their forensics and gathering evidence, my husband had it detailed
and he wanted to sell it, and I was like, no,
(09:18):
that's my car.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You're selling my car. I love that car.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
There's nothing like a car that you just you just
dig it, like that's your set of wheels.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
You know, absolutely.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
That was a nineteen eighty five Firebirds where the nicest
sports cars.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Uh, and it drove so nice.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So let's talk about your support system. I want to
bring Amanda in first, because Amanda, you're a trauma expert,
but you also have something that is in your wheelhouse
that I think is pretty powerful and we don't talk
about it a lot. People don't maybe know a lot
about it. You deal with energy, and I think that
(10:04):
anybody that's ever been in a traumatic situation that had
somebody just touch their hand knows the power of touch.
I think making sure that people are intuitive and that
they are ever present. I think that's one of the
most important things, Amanda. I was at a wedding about
(10:24):
a year and a half ago, and the preacher told
the couple to turn around and just take it in
that this was going to go by so fast and
there were going to be things they didn't remember, and
he basically just made them take that moment. And I thought,
that's one of the most powerful things I've ever seen
(10:46):
at a wedding. So tell everybody a little bit about
what it is you do to help Jane.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, sure, So I'm actually a wreaky master teacher, and
so as you speak about energy, So, Reikie is a
form of energy work where I channel universal energy through
myself and help clients as I tune into their energy field.
And while that sounds really, you know, kind of like
(11:15):
kooky sometimes for people listening to it, just think about
it like this. Absolutely everything is energy, and when anybody
goes through any sort of situation, possibly trauma, maybe something
great or something that's not so great, it actually imprints
energy into your energy field. So as a reiki master,
(11:40):
what I do is I tune into people's energy fields
and I help them cleanse anything that may be stuck
in their energy field. A lot of times people don't
realize that pain can manifest in your energy field.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, you can get diseases for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, yep.
So let me ask you this, Drew. I noticed that
you and Amanda have the same last name. Is there
a reason for that? Sorry? Ah?
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Yes, Amanda is my wife.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Okay. And then you have mentioned that you've known Jane
your whole life, So tell us how the three of
y'all teamed up. Ah.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yes, So, Jane and her husband Dennis have been friends
with my parents for my entire life. One of my
earlier childhood memories is I actually do remember watching The
Unsolved Mysteries when they covered Jane's case, so at a
very early age. That did sort of leave that imprint
and really did kick off my intrigue with true crime.
(12:48):
And with Jane being so close to the family, it
was very difficult for me because I wanted to ask
her so many questions about the case, but I didn't
want to bring it up because we were way too close.
I didn't want to broach that subject. I didn't know
if she was ready to talk about he or anything
like that. And then this was probably about ten fifteen
(13:10):
years ago, Jane and I were sitting around campfire at
a campground in New Hampshire and she just looks at
me and goes, you know, Andrew, have I ever showed
you the scars? And it instantly opened up kind of
like that book, where I could just ask her questions
about it, you know, who the current suspect at that
(13:30):
time was, and just kind of do a little bit
of a deep dive with being able to ask her
those questions that I kind of always wanted to know,
and it made it very good for our relationship as well.
And then it was around the when the pandemic kicked off,
Jane and her daughter Jessica were listening to some episodes
talking about the Connecticut Valley case and they were in
(13:54):
there going god, there's a lot of you know, wrong information,
or the story is not really adding up, or they're
talking about this and doesn't make sense, and they're like,
why don't we do our podcast and actually tell the
full story? But they didn't really know where to start,
and Jane was like, don't. I don't know how to
(14:14):
do this, and Jessica goes ask Andrew. So Jane sent
me a text and was like, Hey, do you got
do you want to go out to lunch? I've got
a great idea. So we went to a Longhorn Sta
Longhorned Steakhouse in Keene, New Hampshire, Jane, Me, Amanda and
Jess and we sat there and just kind of talked
(14:34):
about what the plans would be if we did want
to do a show. And Amanda and I were absolutely
honored because for me it was a if I can
help Jane, give her a platform to tell her story
how it happened, but then also what happened to her
after the fact. Because being a family friend, I was
able to witness a lot of the stuff, even though
(14:57):
Jane was she'll be admit to it, keeping a lot
of stuff on the down low. So there was a
lot that we didn't know, but we did know some
of the some of the stuff that was happening to her.
So I just wanted to give her that opportunity to
try to not only tell her story, but also if
she can help somebody that also went through something traumatic.
(15:17):
Amandon and I were going to be there to support
her as best we could to try to put this
podcast together.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Jane, how important was it for you to not just
have support but to have two people that are willing
to say, hey, you may not understand this energy thing,
but I'm going to try to help you, and then
Andrews saying hey, I'm going to help run this thing
and produce it and have all of that at your disposal.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh as blessed today. I am blessed.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
We've become a great team. You know, I wanted a
platform to share I suffered PTSD for a long time
because of my attack, and I know there's a lot
of people out there that also have gone through trauma
(16:16):
and have PTSD, but they don't really know how to
actually go about to getting help. It took me over
twenty years to actually see a counselor for the first
time about my attack and about what happened to me.
So to when they just when they accepted and they
(16:43):
were like, yeah, let's do this. I was elated. I
was I felt blessed. I was like, Okay, now I
have a platform to tell my story. Because you know,
when you go through something traumatic like I've gone through,
the story doesn't end with Okay, she healed physically, she's
out of the hospital, she goes home. Story done. It
(17:06):
doesn't happen that way. I may have healed very quickly physically,
but not mentally. Mentally took years.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
You made the news before you even got released from
the hospital. You didn't know whether or not he was
coming back exactly, especially once he knew your name.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yep, exactly exactly. And that was the thing.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Back then, they put the victim's names all over media,
and they don't do that today. If the victim has survived,
you don't see the victim's name anymore, especially if the
case is unsolved. But yeah, back then was a very
very different time, and so I, you know, I lived
(17:46):
with a lot of fear for a long time, and
it kind of produced other things in me, like anger
and survivor's guilt and anxiety and night mayors and so
I had, you know, I had all the symptoms of PTSD,
(18:08):
but I at the time, I didn't know I had
PTSD until I went to my counselor. And my counselor
was like, hey, here's some symptoms of PTSD. I really
think you have PTSD. Go home, and you know, look
at the paper and look look at the symptoms. Because
I was like, PTSD is for like you know, servicemen
and women that have seen the unspeakable overseas, you know.
(18:32):
But I read that and I was like blown away.
But yet at the same time, I was like, oh
my god, now I have PTSD.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Now what?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
And that's what I said to her. I was like, okay,
you got me. I have PTSD. Now what.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
And she's like, we start healing you. Those were words
I have never heard. I never heard those before.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
She's the one that And you know, it's shocking that
you know, here you are in the middle of this
horrific event, yet you had not ever been told or.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Sat and thought. I not only witnessed something unspeakable, I
had something unspeakable happened to me, and as somebody's trying
to kill me, I'm trying to protect my unborn child. Afterwards,
I think I'm still being hunted. I don't know where
he's at. I don't know if he's going to strike again.
(19:29):
They asked you to do a composite, and you know,
you can't even speak. You've got to blink yes or
no for the composite. Tell everybody about that.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
So I was.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
I believe it was like day two or day three
when I was in the hospital. I was in intensive care.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I see you.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
I had a ventilator, and the detectives came in with
this box of slides, and they were like different eyes
and different noses and different mouths and different faces and hair,
and so I had all kinds of different slides. And
because I had a ventilator, they were trying to make
(20:15):
a composite to spread around so that they could put
that in the news and put flyers out and stuff.
So I had to blink when they showed me eyes
or nose. I had to blink once for yes and
two for no. I think, you know, I look back
(20:35):
and I thought about this a couple of years ago.
I looked back on that, and it's like, I wonder
if they thought they needed to get this composite out
because they didn't think I was going to survive.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
And we don't know where he's at and he gets
strike again. I mean, I'm sure it was a parallel concern,
but you know, you're talking about both your lungs and
carotid artery. I mean, he wasn't playing. He literally thought
you were going to die right there in that parking lot.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I think he expected me to but I didn't.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
No, you did, not, Sugar Amanda, when you talk about,
you know, we're gonna do this and it's going to
be victim centered and we're going to have a platform
where other people can, you know, get help and tell
their story. How difficult is it for you to make
sure that you stay true to what y'all want to do,
(21:29):
that you don't make an off handed joke that you
don't not think about, Hey, this is the anniversary of
when she was attacked, this is the anniversary when she
was let out of the hospital, this is the anniversary
of you know, the other victims. Like, that's a lot
on you too.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
M Yeah, Yeah, it absolutely is. I definitely think that
all of us can probably agree that. Since we've been
in this podcasting space, and now, mind you, none of
us were podcasters before. We had to teach ourselves, right,
So as we've been sort of stumbling along this path,
(22:11):
we've we've definitely we've learned quite a few things. I
think now we are all finally at the point where
we all understand that we are victim advocates. We see
the work that we've done, we see who we've helped,
and we're extremely proud of that and that sort of
(22:32):
keeps us keeps us going and gives us momentum to
keep going. I do have to say from a personal perspective,
being within this space, especially like for myself personally, being
very sensitive to energy, being very you know, compassionate and
victim centric and that sort of thing. It being in
this space has been hard for me sometimes I need to,
(22:57):
you know, take some mental health today, is myself right,
and just sort of decompress and just remember why we
are doing what we're doing, and we're in it to help,
and we're in it for the right reasons.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I preach work life balance. That balance is so important.
You've got to do something tough like I know today
is tough on Jane. I know it, which is another
reason I think you and Drew are so important. And
Drew I was going to ask, you know, when she's
got to gear up, She's got to tell this again.
(23:31):
You know, this is not entertainment. This is her life.
And you know, one thing that I have learned, whether
it's talking to Jane or talking to Kathy Kleiner, they
have this same just experience in that the killer would
be killer was not in a hurry, he wasn't anxious,
(23:53):
he wasn't just out of control, it's it's the opposite
of Sometimes we envision and like if we were writ
in this horror movie the way we would make the killer.
He's calculated, he's calm. He jives past her and just
looks at her and keeps going and goes slow. He's
not speeding out of there. So when you're dealing with
(24:17):
Jane before the show, during the show, which again I'm
glad y'all are here for her, and then after the show,
how important is that.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
It's very important for us to make sure that Jane
is in the right headspace. If something is hitting her
too hard, we definitely pull the rains back and we
kind of look at the day that Jane is having.
And a lot of times there is very good days
where she's an open book and we can ask her
as much questions as possible. Like, you know, there is
(24:48):
one day where we just sat down and we were like, okay, Jane,
put yourself back when you were laying on the pavement.
Do you remember the sound of the shoes that were
making as he was walking across the pavement. You know,
what type of clothing was he wear? Like, trying to
bring her back to that moment, to try to grasp
any detail that she might have, but also knowing there's
(25:09):
going to be certain times when she is not mentally
in the right frame of mind to talk. But I
think with the work that we've been doing, and especially
with Jane being able to talk to other survivors, being
you know, really getting into the advocacy headspace, she's ready
to talk and ready to take on a lot more
weight as she's not just advocating for herself anymore, but
(25:33):
she's advocating for the seven other women that were killed,
you know, within the Connecticut Valley as well as some
other cases. So she has definitely taken on a lot
of the weight of that. But we're just here to
support her and try to help her out as much
as possible, whether that's people coming with information, you know,
sometimes it's information that I know would just set her
(25:57):
off a little bit. Yeah, No, it wasn't that. It's okay.
I will keep that information. I'll just give her a
summary of it, but kind of make sure that it's
something that's not gonna, you know, kind of send her
into a little bit of a tailsman.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Well, Jane, this tickles me a little bit because Amanda
and Drew both they almost sound like they're very calm,
they're very in touch and being kind and gracious. Girl,
you're a pistol. Let me tell you something. That man
had already pulled a knifef on you, and you're like, hey, dude,
(26:36):
what about my crackweindshield, Like, what's up like paying for that?
So I think again that balance. I don't know you
that well, Jane, but I'm just saying I've heard you
talk on more than one interview, and I mean, you're
You're just a boss, right, I mean you you are her,
you are you know, you've got that vibrato about you.
(26:58):
I think you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
I do, I do, and you know, I to kind
of backtrack to I Andrew. One of the things that
helps me keeps me centered and grounded and stuff is
the advocating is helping others. I know when somebody comes
(27:21):
on our podcast and they tell their loved one story,
I know that we're helping them. So that helps me.
That helps me a lot. You know, the advocating has
been so therapeutic for us, especially for me. It just
knowing that telling my story has helped other people. We
(27:45):
get emails. I've had several emails of people telling me
I was in a domestic relationship, violent relationship for years
and I finally got out. And for fifteen years, I've
known I needed counseling, but never have done it. And
they email me and tell me I just made my
(28:06):
first appointment for counseling because they heard my podcast. That
is huge, Like, that's what we had always said from
the beginning. If we could help that one person, then
we've done our job. This is what we wanted to do.
This is what we're doing, and we have. We've helped several.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
You have every right to just want to be in
the bed all the time and upset, but you're using
it for good. Something so horrible and you're turning it
to say, you know what, I'm going to help other people.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
Well, I felt so alone for so many years, like
I didn't know somebody else that had gone through something
so traumatic as I have been through. So who do
you talk to? Who do you you know? I didn't
know Kathy Klein.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Then you know.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
There's not and there's no books out there. Oh, I
survived a serial killers. So what am I supposed to
do now for the rest you know, the rest of
my life? There there's nothing out there. So I was
lost for a long long time. And if I was
lost after I've gone through something traumatic like this, I
(29:21):
know there's other people out there that have that have
been feeling the same way as I was for years.
And so in telling my story and getting it out
and and you know, like I said before, one of
the most important parts of my story is not my attack,
it's my life after the attack. I mean, it wasn't
(29:45):
it wasn't easy. It was very hard for a long time,
but it was also something that helped build me to
the person that the person that I am today, and
that's you know, I can't put a price on that
(30:05):
or anything, but my podcast allows me to do this
and to be the person I want to be.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
These crimes occurred between nineteen seventy eight and nineteen eighty seven.
There are seven women that they know are connected to
this killer, but there's possibly many many more. Talk about
that a little bit about how you're trying to advocate
for all of the victims and potential victims.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
We've been doing the rallies up at the AG's office
in Conquered New Hampshire. They're starting to open these cases
up and looking at him at them a lot more.
One thing I like that they're doing now is instead
of looking at them all as a whole, they're individually
investigating them.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Now.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
Back in the eighties, I think there was a lot
of speculation that there was one killer.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Now it's like, I'm not sure they're doing.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
They're doing a lot more investigating individually. And that's super
important because I think that they'll get further with maybe
once they solve one case, maybe they can solve another
that's connected, that's connected to that case.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
I think that's the right approach individually, and then you know,
deconstruct it and build it back up.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
I agree, But I mean, what do I say to
other women? You know, the world is not a safe place,
and we it's funny. We just I just did a video.
There's several unsolved murders happening in Cannnecticuette, Massachusetts, and Rhode
(32:02):
Island right now. They've been finding all kinds of bodies
and remains the past couple of months.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
And I did a.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
Video on it yesterday, And you know, I'm frustrated that
law enforcement doesn't give out very much information. And I
get some of their reasons, I really do, But when
they call every single case not suspicious, that just doesn't
(32:34):
sound right. And that's what they do in the Hampshire
a lot. But what I would rather have them say
is the case is being investigated, but be vigilant. And
that was part of my video yesterday. It was like
I wanted people to know, yes, there is a possibility
(32:54):
that there's a serial killer out there, no proof yet,
but I want this information to be spread so women
or people can be more vigilant. Like walking going on
a trail hike, don't go one at a time, do two,
be a buddy system, Carrie Peppers Ray. Be aware of
(33:18):
your surroundings. Don't wear earbuds if you're alone jogging. That way,
you're more aware of what your surroundings are, and you know,
you can hear if somebody's you know, behind you, are
coming to coming towards you, different things like that. That's
(33:38):
why law enforcement kind of frustrates me with this because
they try to put everybody at ease, but they're not
thinking about people that aren't being vigilant about what they're
doing and about their surroundings. And so, you know, I
wish people would be more vigilant. I don't want to
(34:01):
scare people, Like with my video, I didn't want to
scare anybody, but I wanted people to know that, you know,
there's a possibility of this be vigilant.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
So Drew this killer killed in a fifty mile radius.
You are a serial killer researcher, that's your area. What
does that tell you about the potential true number of victims?
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Yeah, we do. We do think that it wasn't just
north and south along the you know, the I ninety
one corridor. We do believe that it might have also
gone a little bit east to west, going from the
Vermont State boarder over into Maine. There's a lot of
bodies that turned up, you know, throughout central New Hampshire
(34:47):
and Maine around the same timeframe that were similar enough
to you know, get on our radar. And I know
that I was talking with a family friend who was
a good, good friend with a cop from Unity and
the authorities in that small town also believe that there
was an east to west corridor as well, that this
(35:09):
this killer was also conducting attacks. And so but we
haven't We've been pretty good with We honestly do not
know who the suspect is. We are trying to identify
what cases might be tied and which ones might not be. Now,
if you look at the eight attacks within the Connecticut
Valley cases, the similarities are definitely they're in the same
(35:32):
area of New Hampshire and Vermont. But if you do
look at each case, you're gonna find something that doesn't
quite line up with another one. There might be a
piece here that connects you know, the first and the
second case, but then there's an outlier between them. But
then there's a commonality between you know, the second and
the seventh case. So we definitely look at it with
(35:53):
an open eye, going is it one or is it
possibly two? Now, when we had first start our conversation,
you know, the theory of him being a hunter or
a fisherman was pretty prominent. But I was definitely of
the mindset of he had to have had some hunting
and fishing background. And in Linda Moore's case, in particular,
(36:18):
the woman who was attacked in her home in Bella's Falls,
it was an outlier because she was attacked in her home.
Everybody else was sort of in a public place. But
I looked at it as from a hunter fisherman's perspective.
In her home was right along a river that you
could fish along, so I theorized that he was he
(36:41):
would go out hunting. Now, whether that was driving around,
I don't necessarily think it was driving around. I think
you would treat it almost like he was in a
deer stand. He would find a spot and sit there
and wait to see if somebody would come by that
would that would be within his demographics of a possible victim.
And that's why I think with Linda Moore in particular,
I think he was fishing along the river and as
(37:03):
he was walking along the river, he stumbled upon her
and saw her in her backyard and just he became overwhelmed,
and that's why that attack happened. And we didn't find
out until about a year and a half ago from
the police reports that they did actually find some some
twigs and branches that could have only come from the backyard.
(37:24):
So that did sort of help kind of solidify that
a little bit with you know, we do believe this
is what his background.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Is interesting, and you've got victims that were hitchhiking in
parking lots, rest stops. It certainly would check that he
waits for somebody to come into his path, almost like
a deer gets in that clear and if you're in
the tree stand.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
So yeah, exactly, and with jeans attack being aka Marlow's,
it's right in, you know, right in the hometown area.
So I'd drive by it countless times and I would
there and kind of put myself in the position of
if I was driving by and saw the car, would
I pull in? Or there's enough spots in that parking
(38:11):
lot where you could sit in a car sitting in
it and nobody would even realize you were there. So
I kind of put myself in that mindset of going,
you know what, there is this one spot in that
parking lot where you can sit in the dark, nobody
can see you, but you can see traffic coming from
both sides, and you can also tell if there are
multiple people in the vehicle or just a single person.
(38:33):
So in Jane's case, he would have been able to
see that it was a single woman pulling into the
parking lot, because we did sit down with Jane and
ask her did she remember the car actually pulling into
the parking lot and did she remember which anglic came
in and she could not quite remember. So it's one
of those where there's no clear evidence as to was
(38:56):
he just driving by or was he possibly hanging out
there in that parking lot.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
All right, Jane, I'm going to ask you something, and
I'm going to offer you something. I happen to know
the world's best forensic artist. If you would like to
redo the composite, or if you would like to do
what we call an age progression, I would be willing
(39:27):
to get that done for you. So you just think
about that, because if you don't think that that composite
is good enough, you need to add ears, if the
hair's not right, if you remember something about scars on
the face or anything that we need to change, we
can do that. So, Jane, I hear something about a coalition.
(39:50):
What's that about, Honey?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I think I'm going to turn that part over to
Amanda because Amanda can explain it way better than I
can see.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
Y'all.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Well, that's why having a Z seven is so important.
Go ahead, Amanda. We always have each other's bags, don't we.
And she might have just psychically known that I had
the press releases actually already printed out right here for reference,
just to make sure I get the dates right.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Thanks, Jane. Yeah, So with our journey, that we've been
on with Invisible Tears. Obviously we have met some amazing
people who are doing advocating for their family as well.
So in the spring, late spring, early summer of twenty
twenty three, myself, Drew and Jane combined forces with Julie Murray,
(40:39):
who is the sister of Maura Murray, who I'm sure
that a lot of people have heard of. Yes, we
we adore Julie as well and her entire family. We
combined forces with Julie also Shana from Light the Way.
She has an amazing advocacy program where she just simply
(41:00):
helps people that are advocating for cases. We also combined
with some family members from Trish Haynes family, Valerie Haynes
and Carrie and Wilson from Trish Haynes's family. And what
we all did was we all got together, we all
(41:20):
hopped on a zoom and we said, I think we
need to form a group. And so what we did
was we actually ended up forming the New Hampshire Coalition
of Families for the Missing and Murdered and we started
having annual rallies. And what we do is once a year,
or right now I should say it's once a year,
(41:41):
we gather. We do a big event mid August and
we either do it in front of the capital in
Conquered New Hampshire. The first one was at the Attorney
General's Office, but they've since moved that so it's right
in the center of Conquered New Hampshire. Gather and we
speak and we simply bring visibility to all the cases
(42:08):
that aren't solved, all the people that are missing. We
welcome people speaking at it. We always make sure and
invite the Attorney General's Office and any law enforcement that
wants to come as well and sort of collaborate with us.
But we're what we're really looking for is we're looking
to raise awareness, reform the victim advocacy program, improve communication
(42:33):
with both the state and with investigators, and really just
secure justice for victims.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Well, Jane, I don't think we can in this thing
without talking about the absolute miracle, the hand to God
moment within this case.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
I actually have two miracles. My daughter that I was
pregnant with, she had a rough road. She had to
fight for her life for quite a few weeks. She
was born a blue baby, so she had no blood pressure,
(43:11):
so but she fought for her life for a few weeks.
She survived, and uh, she's my best friend and I
can't imagine life without her. And she also blessed me
with a granddaughter.
Speaker 7 (43:29):
Oh congratulations, So I have eleven year old granddaughter, which
she is. She's something she's going through adolescents right now.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
But she's a sweetheart.
Speaker 5 (43:43):
She's her goal is to advocate for bullying in school.
But yeah, I my daughter survived, and uh, she tries
to as much as she can. She's a part of
everything that we do. She's a part of the coalition's
(44:03):
she does all her traveling with me when I go
to speak at different places. And so, yeah, she's she's amazing.
She's uh she's not had life easy. Uh, but she
does the best that she can and I'm grateful for
(44:24):
and she's the reason.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Why I'm alive.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
I truly believe she wanted to live, and that's why
I survived my attack.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Amanda, thank you so much for joining us, for giving
us your insight, and just being willing to help Jane
every day. I appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Oh, of course, thank you so much. And believe me,
I wouldn't I wouldn't have it any other way. I
love Jane. And I protect her fiercely.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Oh are you're going to make me cry?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Awesome?
Speaker 3 (44:57):
I hope my energy is coming through hoping fail it.
You have fantastic energy, you really do.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I'll hear that.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I'm gonna put that on my business card. And Drew, listen.
I mean, I love what you're doing. I love the
fact that Amanda and Jane call you the glue of
what y'all are doing. I think that's a great title.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
Honey, thank you very much. Who's great talking to you.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
I don't even have words. I mean, I just not
only appreciate you coming and telling your story again. I
know it's not easy, but I think that's why it's
so important that we get the word out that the
three of you, through the Invisible Tears podcast and your
coalition and your advocacy, that people need to know how
(45:43):
to get in touch with and reach you so you
can keep helping all these people. And I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
I thank you very much for.
Speaker 5 (45:52):
Letting us be on your show and telling my story.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Y'all. I'm on end Zone seven. The way that I
always is due with a quote. I was seven months pregnant,
I was stabbed twenty seven times, but not one to
my baby Jane Barowski. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is
Zone seven.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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