March 19, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum, is joined by Alvin Williams and Francel Evans of the Affirmative Murder Podcast to revisit Sharon Miller’s cold case. Together, they discuss the eerie details of Sharon’s final hours, including a chilling phone call, a mysterious group of men, and a crime so calculated it suggests ties to organized crime or underground activities. The trio also piece together potential motives, overlooked evidence, and theories that could finally bring justice to Sharon’s son, Charles, who has spent decades searching for answers.
On April 28, 1982, Sharon Miller's badly decomposed body was found covered under debris in a secluded area off of Powder Mill Road in Woodlawn, Baltimore County on Januafry 14,1983. Detectives noted that Miller's hands and feet were missing from her body.
Baltimore County Police are urging anyone with details or rumors about the case to come forward. Report tips anonymously through Metro Crime Stoppers or the Baltimore County Police Department’s platforms, including by calling 410-887-3943 or submitting a tip online.
Guest Bio and Links:
Alvin Williams and Francel Evans are the dynamic hosts of the Affirmative Murder Podcast, a true crime and comedy show that sheds light on cases from marginalized communities. With a unique blend of humor, investigative curiosity, and compelling storytelling, they bring fresh perspectives to overlooked and forgotten cases.
Listeners can learn more about Alvin and Francel on their podcast, and on IG @affirmativemurderpod
Resources about Sharon Miller:
Unsolved Homicides: Sharon Miller | Baltimore County Police Department
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome back to Zone 7 with Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum
- (1:00) Sheryl introduces Alvin Williams and Francelle Evans from Affirmative Murder Podcast to Zone 7
- (2:00) “Mac, Mac, Mac, it's a pleasure to be here. I can’t quite put it into words, but every time I talk to you, it feels like a short stack of griddle cakes with a side of the best grits you’ve ever had - And it makes me so warm and happy.”
- (3:00) The last 24 of Sharon Miller
- (4:00) The chilling phone call the night before Sharon Miller disappeared
- (7:15) The day Sharon went missing
- (10:45) Speculations and theories
- (18:30) The significance of dismemberment - what it tells us about the killer
- (24:00) Theories & speculations - drug connections, intimidation, or personal vendetta
- (30:00) Cause of death is still unknown
- (32:00) Solving the case after 40 years
- (36:30) “If one really wishes to know how justice is administered. One does not question the police, the lawyers, the judges, or the protected class, one goes to the unprotected and listens to their testimony.” -James Baldwin
- Thanks for listening to another episode! If you’re loving the show and want to help grow the show, please head over to Itunes and leave a rating and review!
---
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pa
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Dismemberment and homicides are rare, so when they happen, attention
needs to be placed on it. Sharon Miller went missing
April twenty eighth, nineteen eighty two, but it would be
nine months before her remains were found by utility workers
(00:30):
on January fourteenth, nineteen eighty three. Her hands and feet
were missing, a blue blanket was covering her decomposed remains.
Her remains were found in a wooded, secluded area of
Baltimore County off powder Mill Road in Woodlawn. She was
(00:53):
just twenty nine years old and her son only eleven. Tonight,
we have two special young men joining us who brought
us this case, Alvin Williams and France L. Evans from
Affirmative Murder podcast. Now let me tell you all about them.
(01:13):
They are wonderful young men. They are handsome, they are funny,
they are smart, they are friendly, they're good businessmen. There's
not enough good I can say about them. I will
tell you how we met. I was walking down the
hall at Crime Con and they were doing a live broadcast,
(01:34):
and suddenly they started talking to me like we had
known each other for twenty years. And I just found
their whole vibe, just the way they engaged, so honest
and so fun because even though we were talking about murder,
their sense of humor led the conversation. Their podcast is
(01:55):
a true crime comedy podcast, y'all. They swamp murder stories
from marginalized communities while they tried. This is a quote
not to rant about fast food or what is actually
buried in graveyards. Gentlemen, Welcome to Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Thank you Mac mac mac. It is a pleasure to
be here. I can't really, you know, put this into
words in any other way other than whenever I speak
to it feels like a short stack of griddle cakes
with a side of the best grit you've ever had
in your life. And it makes me so warm and happy.
It's always good to speak to And thanks for having
(02:36):
us and saying such nice things.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Oh, Alvin, I'm going to remember that forever. I may
have to get me something with that written on it.
And Franzail, seriously, the first time we met, it was
like have I met them before? I mean, y'all just
have this way of engaging with people that's just wonderful.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, you're an easy chat so and that's why you're
so good at what you do. You are an easy
conversation list for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Well, this is an important evening and I think we're
going to have a lot of fun, but we're gonna
shed some light on a case that I think needs
a spotlight. And y'all, you may or may not know
the way I work, but I'm a cromising investigator for
a living still and I have a way of working
cold cases. And I call it the last twenty four
So I take the last twenty four hours of a
(03:25):
victim's life and I try to see where they intersected
with the killer. And in Sharon's Miller case, I'm going
to tell you the fact that she had visitors the
night before. Alvin tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So according to her son Charles, who was eleven years
old at the time, the last time he had saw
his mom, she had had a few gentlemen over at
the house. I don't know if it was a party
or what, but they were conversating and he was on
his way out to play and just a little behind
baseball a bit. I mean, I grew up not far
from where this took place. Obviously it was a few
(04:02):
decades later, but my mom had me at a younger age,
I really resonate with the perspective of her son. And
you know, so I can that being the last thing
you see. And if it was a normal situation, you
know it. You know, it would have been not a
second thought if he comes on and everything's fine. But
according to him, this was concerning to him. But when
(04:25):
he got back, she was still home. And then he
said that he heard her on a phone call where
she said something to the effect of when you bring
my son into it, that's when you start a war
with me. And he said that night they slept on
the couch together instead of in their own individual bedrooms,
which again is odd. It could be a cute moment,
(04:48):
but after you hear something like that on the phone,
you start to piece things together, especially after we get
to what happens, you know, all of those things, the gentleman,
the phone call, everything becomes concerning. And he said the
next day he woke up and he went to cool
and when he got home that later that evening, his
mom wasn't.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
There now, Franz Hail, when I was growing up, if
a group of adults had come over to my house,
ain't no way I'm leaving baby. That was original reality TV.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
That's a fact.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So even if my mom and dad said y'all go
out and play, it takes me an hour and a
half to put my shoes on because I want the gossip.
I want to know what's going on because it's good.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yes, when you hear the good stuff, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
That's when you hear the good stuff. Did you know
you shouldn't be privy too? So when you heard that
there were visitors, then a follow up phone call, then
she made sure her child was with her in the den,
not alone in his bedroom. What did you take from
all of that?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I took from that that. I mean, obviously that's there's fear.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
If you get a phone you hear a phone call
like that, and then a night comes and you and
mom goes, you know, let's sleep on the couch. You
know that. I think still at eleven years old, you know,
there's some thoughts creeping in and were like, you know
that that's kind of weird. But just hearing that, I'm like,
there's fear and mom you know, it's trying to protect
her baby what a mom is supposed to do. And
(06:13):
I think that that alone speaks.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Volumes, sounds like she took it seriously. So here's what
we know. We know they knew where she lived, we
know they knew her phone number. So these are somebody
in her immediate social circle. Alvin, do you think her
having adults over at the house was a rare occurrence
or did he just think this is weird because they're
(06:36):
all men?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Because he left anyway, Yeah, I racked my brain about
that because he still went out and played and so
like we just we jokingly said that, but I fully
agree with that. I mean, if this was a group
of people that he was familiar with, he might not
have been as reticent to go outside because oh, it's
my favorite cousins or you know, my favorite uncle, or
(06:59):
I'm gonna hang in the house and just you know,
play some games, but hang out on the steps and listen.
That tells me that it might have been not as
normal of an occurrence, and it felt like something that
kids are not allowed to be around for, like it
you know, maybe maybe sharing is like it's time to
go outside, and you're going outside. I was thinking the
same thing. But this isn't a conversation meant for you to.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Hear, right, Yeah, that checks out to me.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, and it being a group of men. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's definitely concerning.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So Franzail. The next morning, they get up, he has
owned a school, she heads to work, and what happens.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So then he comes home and then you know mom
is missing. We don't know, we don't know where mom
is at this point. And as a kid, I mean
coming home and you see your mom before you go
to school and come home and like, okay, where's mom.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Mom's not home.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I think that's that's a big concerning As a eleven
year old child, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And they had a routine. I mean it's just the
two of them, so he would know she would be
here by five o'clock, four or whatever the time was.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I like, much like Charles, I was also a latch
key kid. I believe friend was a latch key kid too,
so like I wouldn't get concerned. There was one time
I locked myself out of my house and my mom
didn't get home until six thirty. But I knew that,
so you know, in this instance, I'm worried about getting
in trouble because I lost the key again. But but
(08:22):
I know, like I just need to go hang out
at a friend's house until six thirty and then my
mom will be home and I can get into the house.
So he goes, and he goes down to down the
street a couple doors to his friend's house and stays there,
you know. But I'm sure at once, at some point
it's like, okay, works over. Maybe she went to the
grocery store. That doesn't take that long. There's a point
in which, you know, when you're a last chey kid,
(08:43):
a kid of a single mom, you know, like there's
a window where Okay, she's supposed to be bad specting
by now yep, you know, And so that window passed,
you know, and now concern is real. And at some point,
you know, after a few days of staying at his
friend's house, which you know, who knows the you know,
the fear that you're feeling, he saw people gathered outside
(09:05):
the house and that's when he knew like something was wrong.
She was missing.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So, Franz Helle, do we know how she got to work?
Did she take a car, a bus? Walk? Do we
know that?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
The research I've done, they couldn't find anything about her
transportation to work at all? But that is raised some
questions as far as like you know, did she get
a ride or like did she catch a bus and
stuff like that. So I don't you know, as some
information I was, I wasn't able to find.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I wasn't able to find it either. I couldn't even
find if she made it to.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Work right that day. Yeah, exactly, same, Okay. One thing,
one thing that I would note for people who have
never been to Baltimore. So there's the city, which is
the city is the city no matter where you are.
But then the county would be similar to the suburbs
and other places, like there's the city in the suburbs,
so the county's outside of the city. But then the
further outside of the city that you start to get,
(09:56):
it starts to become a lot more like the sticks.
So you know, do you think suburbs, you think nice,
But then you know, the further out you get, you
kind of invert back around and it becomes low income
living situations, not just like oh the suburban life. It
becomes like just grassy low income and that's really Woodlawn
(10:18):
kind of is in the middle of That's got some
suburban areas, but it's got some areas that are as
as rough as any neighborhood in the city.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So for Sharon Miller, it would be even more difficult
to get around.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yes, because it's very spread out. So that could be
a bus line, that could be catching a hack or
like a friend giving a carpool type of situation. But
it's definitely not walkable like the city is.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So in this neighborhood, you have an African American, single mom,
no man in the house, making it, but barely do
you think law enforcements reaction was she'll show up. She's
probably just with a date somewhere. There might be drugs,
(11:02):
there might be other situations that would take her away
from her child for a couple of days. Because even
he didn't panic day one.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, I definitely believe that that played a role in it.
Because one, I think that in the case of the
forty eight hour rule, if you have reliable people around
you to advocate for you, it put you know, it
lights a fire under the asses of detectives. But for
your biggest advocate to be an eleven year old, it's
kind of like, well, we're going to probably stick to
(11:31):
our traditional system of give it forty eight hours. You know,
let them see if they turn up. Because the word
of this eleven year old saying well, my mom's really
nice and she is the best mom in the world.
It is like, well, that doesn't give us a like
insight into her character. So I think that they probably
stuck to the traditional forty eight hours. Maybe she'll turn up.
She might have you know, dipped off into a corner,
(11:54):
went off with a friend, a fling or something like that,
and she'll be back. Let's see if she turns up.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And Alvin, that's a good point. That brings me to
the person that I always like to interview. And Franzille,
that's the best friend. Do we know her best.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Friend based on this, you know, mysterious group of men
that she hung around with. It's hard to say that.
You know, I knew, I know that I don't know
where she worked, but I know she had a nine
to five job, and you know, she was keeping a
roof over her children's head. But the phone call and
the group of men tells me that she might have
(12:31):
been dating someone who ran in dark circles. She might
have been, you know, hanging out with the wrong crowd.
And you know, also, you know, and I hate to
put disparaging ideas about anybody you know in a situation
like this, but a lot of times young people in
situation like this, specifically women and women in the area
(12:52):
that she was from, they get caught up in uh oh,
can we keep this at your house type of situation,
you know, Can we use your basement? Can we can
we stash this here or something like that, you know,
And I just get that read from this. I don't
want to talk ill of someone that is not here
with us, but it just I just feel like Sharon
(13:16):
got caught up in something that was bigger than her,
and she picked her side and something went wrong.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Here's the deal. People will come to you because they
want to use your house to hide drugs, in store drugs,
in use it as a gambling spot for like an
underground you know, card party. They might even run prostitution
out of your house. And you get a cut, just
(13:43):
like a casino. And sometimes it's easy to say, hey,
I'm not going to make a rent unless I do
this favor. And then again, my child can have a
roof over their head and food and new shoes. And
I'm not doing anything illegal. I'm not selling drugs, I'm
not gambling. I'm just letting them use the basement. So
(14:04):
it's easy to almost convince yourself that everything's going to
be okay. But then if you don't want to play anymore,
they may not let you out.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, we talk about that a lot, just off Mike,
just just living life in the world where you go.
You know, easy money sounds easy until you don't want
to make it anymore, you know, Like then it's like, well,
if they tell you you can't stop making this money,
we're gonna keep giving it to you, and we're going
to keep doing whatever we're doing, whatever favor you're doing.
Who are you going to go to the police, Like,
who are you going to tell? Who are you going
(14:34):
to ask for help? Exactly another CD criminal And.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
This sounds like this person did exactly that because her
child heard her say, if you put my son in it,
that's going to be a war. Well, number one, that's
a good mama right there. Again, it would be somebody
that had to know her know how she would react.
That's the only child she's got, and she is going
(14:59):
to put herself between that baby and danger. She did it.
That's why they were on the sofa. I guarantee he
was on the inside, and she was on the outside, and.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Like you said about them knowing her phone number, how
to contact her, where she lived, everything. This was like
definitely either someone who was at that home that night
or had been at that home before.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And knew how to reach her. Because again you may
like I had a buddy down the street growing up.
He would always just come to the house, knock on
the door and see if me and my sisters wanted
to come out and play. He never knew our phone number.
So this is somebody that knew next level and they
did it the night before she went missing.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah, when we do stories like this one, I'll show
I like to and me outn you know, go kind
of have it back and forth. I kind of like
to play Devil's advocate a little bit, So I always
go as a mom in her situation. Like you said, Mac,
you know, you may need money, you may not be
able to know full rent this month. How do you
say no to something like that? And I understand you
(16:02):
get caught up and you know the risk, but it's like, okay, well,
how you know this is the only chance I have
right now for my child to eat.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
That's right, And especially if you're doing something that's not
hurting anybody. You're just having a card game. That's all
you're doing. You're letting people come into your basement and
leave your basement, and leave your basement. Yeah, nothing has happened.
Nobody got hurt, nobody got robbed, nobody got stabbed. It
(16:29):
was gambling. It's easy to justify that, especially when you're
trying to feed a child and she had a job.
But we all know, I mean, there are days I
can put a new tire on my car, and there
are days I might have to ride crazy for a week.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, it.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Happens. I mean, it happens. And especially if you don't
have the support system. You don't have an extra adult
in the house helping, You don't have maybe family that
has is it better than you, that can take him
for a weekend and feed him while you can just
go hungry this you know, you have no option as
a mama. I mean, he's got to eat, especially at eleven,
(17:11):
you know. But here's one thing that sticks out for me.
This case took at a minimum, a kidnapping, drive her somewhere,
murder her, drive her somewhere else to to pose her body,
dismember her, cover her with a blanket, remove a manhole
(17:34):
cover that weighed one hundred and fifty pounds, put it
back and drive away. The last seven of those steps
had nothing to do with accomplishing a murder. That's something
that killer or killers wanted to happen, so they took
extra time. And any time you do something extra, that's
(17:56):
an extra step, you might get caught. So when they're
dry her in their car, they could have had a wreck,
they could have got stopped for speeding whatever. As they're
doing the murder, they could be seen, somebody could hear something,
you know, throwing her out in the woods. All of
these things. I mean, utility workers found her. So it's
not like they're in a place people don't go. Yeah,
(18:18):
So anytime I see that added risk, we've got to
factor that.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Into I always like to say mac like, look, I
went to Hardley University. Like I hardly know how to
walk and choo gum, I like, I hardly know. There's
a lot of.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Stuff I don't know, right, we need to make sure.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Feel free. But one hundred and fifty pounds manhole cover,
you know it was it was just in the woods
enough that it was work, but not a lot of work. Right.
So you know, when me and Fran had discussed this
before and he brought up about what if this was
like sending a message type of situation, and at first
I agree, but then I went well, to me, especially
(18:59):
if talking to you like for how much we've discussed it.
To me, it sounds like there's no question that she
knew who these people were, because if you were going
to send the message, you'd make you put her out
on display. But it feels like they wanted her to
disappear to the best of their ability to make that happen.
And to me, that says she was connected to them
in some kind of way as to where she comes
(19:21):
a missing They're going straight to these people.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
One hundred percent, and I have a question about that.
So she's missing nine months, her hands and feet are missing,
which could be you're just crazy and twisted and did that.
It could mean you removed fingerprints. It could mean you
took them as a calling card to show somebody. Look,
I made her disappear. They'll never find her. But here's
(19:47):
her rings, right, So if they did it as intimidation,
which I believe what the night before was all about,
if you've got a single Mama, with no man in
the house, you don't need to send four or five
men over there. One would scare the daylights out of me.
But then you follow up with a phone call just
to make sure that I take you seriously and I
(20:09):
threaten your child. It almost sounds like organized crime.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yes, And that's why I go with that second theory
of this was a an organized hit in my opinion,
you know, just because like you said, I mean, could
someone be just the psychopathy is off the charts and
they're just like I collect hands. Sure, but I just
feel like we'd see there would be another case of
this which I looked up, Like I looked up for
(20:35):
the time for the decade in Baltimore. There was no
other like hands and feet bodies in the more Jane
does anything. So to me, I go they didn't want
the fingerprints to be identified. It just doesn't feel like
this was just a crazy person cutting off people's hands
and feet. And also I guess it could have been
possibly someone taking those hands and feet showing them to somebody,
(20:59):
but like, who who was that for it? If it
was intimidation, you know, And I don't think it would
be to show to your friends to brag about. So
I just go those hands and feet were removed and
thrown away into a river or something like that.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
It could be Alvin, absolutely, But I'll tell you something,
Franzille that always tickles me when I hear people say, oh,
they cut off the hands so they couldn't be identified,
but you left the face. So if she had been
found sooner, they absolutely would have known who it was.
And here's my other question. It seems to me that
(21:33):
once she was found, they identified her quick And my
question is, in nineteen eighty three, how did they do that?
There would have been no DNA, there'd have been no rings,
no tattoos, no shoes, like, how did they do it?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, and they said the body was badly decomposed.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Oh nine months in a sewer. Absolutely, so absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I'm just as puzzled by that as well. But one
thing that I will say is based on some of
the things that I saw from the BCPD database from
nineteen seventy to twenty twenty, there are only about seventy
cold cases that are unsolved. So obviously, you know, listen,
friends of Postman. One thing that Postman and detectives have
(22:18):
in common, well, two things They both say donuts, love donuts,
And two they both know that the mail never stops, right, Like,
so you're a detective, there's new bodies piling up on
your desk every day, so that makes it hard to
focus in on a cold case. But nine months of
no leads and you might not have as many unsolved
(22:39):
murders as you think to go to, you know, in
that timeframe. So maybe it was like you know, black women,
you know that they could get an age range on her,
this woman's been missing since this time, if they can
line up. I don't, mack, you tell me, is that
that's not DNA? Is it to line up you know,
decomp times as best as possible obviously as the element
(23:00):
were tough, But like if they can say she's probably
been here nine.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Or so months, yeah, they would be able to estimate that.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Okay, So that takes you back to whoever was missing
nine or so months ago, So that'd be my best
guess because like you said, I mean, the body was
horribly decomposed, so I don't think face was the easiest
thing to go off of.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
And that's kind of what I was getting at, is
that that must be what it was. There was one
person missing in that age bracket. You know that they could,
I guess, take the totality of what happened, the proximity
of where she lived, where she was found, all those
sorts of things. I'm going to ask y'all this too.
(23:43):
And Franzille, my grandfather was a rural letter carrier, and
you know he rains leet, hell or snow, carried that
bag all over. Criminals typically are lazy, So that's why
you hear things like somebody was found in a shallow grave,
(24:04):
because once they start digging that grave, they can't get
six feet, they can't get four feet, they get wore out,
they're tired, they're like it ain't worth it, and they
just do the best they can and cover somebody with debris.
This person drug a dead body and then removed the
manhole cover. So this is somebody again that took extra time,
(24:28):
extra strength to do what they thought was necessary. And
I agree with both of y'all to hide her identity forever.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
So Mac, do you when you a case like this,
do you look at this case and go this was
a one man a one man job, or do you
think this was a one man job?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
No, I don't I think this was more than one person.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I don't think so either, right.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
And I think we know it again from the night before.
If you look at the last twenty four, the answer
is going to be there. And this sound to me
like you had one person driving and at least one
person shotgun and they kidnapped her. So either she was
walking to the bus, walking into her building, walking out
(25:11):
of her building. That's why it's so critical if we
can find out from Charles did she make it to work,
because if she didn't, that means the killer had at
least eight hours that day. If she didn't make it
to work, they only had a few So this was
a quick thing. But you figure one person's in the car,
(25:32):
one person pulls up to her, grabs her, gets her
in the car, and now has her under control, probably
with a firearm, and then they do what they do.
They take her to whatever location is the murder scene.
So you have a primary scene. I believe where she was,
you know, tossed, was a secondary scene. I believe that
(25:52):
her hands and feet were taken to show somebody. And
I'll just make it simple. Let's just say it was
a drug dealing pimp. He's got two things he's running
and she saw something. She's sitting the scene, or she
said I won't out and if you don't let me out,
I'm going to tell the police. Whatever. The focus became
on her and it, and it was very clear they
(26:15):
weren't going to let her out. She wasn't going to
survive it, even to the point they said, we'll get
you and your child. So I think it took more
than one person to get this done. She would not
have gone willingly. And there's no record that anybody was screaming.
There was no record that somebody saw somebody get kidnapped,
So that tells me I think it was soon after
(26:38):
she left the house.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I agree. And also I just don't think one person
lifted that manhole cover like you said.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I don't either, especially not after driving a dead body.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, the criminals are lazy. This is razy. Yeah, one
hundred and fifty pounds, it's not impossible, but nobody it's like.
And it's also to me, it feels like they looked
at whatever the scene is that they chose and picked
it ahead of time. They knew it, you know, like
a man in the area like to know you can
open this, and there's like a little pocket of space.
(27:08):
They to bring a blanket to cover her. I think
that they were confident that no one would ever find her,
you know, I think that they I think they felt
like they had gone the extra mile. And you know,
something make you bring up a good point where you go, yeah,
I mean, let's say these were for hire men. Well, yeah,
you would take the hands and feet, maybe so that
(27:28):
they can't find fingerprints, but also to prove to whoever
hired you it's done to just not take your word
for it, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
And here's the deal, friends, Hell, you know this because
you walk in front of the same houses every day,
You're going to know whether somebody had a party. They
don't normally have a lot of trash. Now they've got
eight bags out there, so you may recognize, oh, they
got a brand new dog, or this person just had
a baby. Like you're privy to these neighborhoods. There are
(27:57):
people that knew her landlord knew you know, the other
folks in the neighborhood. There's a lot of times when
we have cases, prostitutes have a ton of information. They
know who's coming in and out of that neighborhood. So
like even we had the missing and murdered children in Atlanta.
Prostitutes gave great information. Has anybody picked you and wanted
(28:21):
you to act this way? Has anybody tied you up
this way? Has anybody pretended to cut your throat this way?
They have information no other segment in the community is
going to have. And if you go to them and
you have a good relationship and you understand their world
and they understand yours, then they will give you that information.
(28:44):
Her best friend, her landlord, some of her co workers.
They know things about her that would give us some
of this victimology and answer some of these questions.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Who are the friends who's home he went to? They
have parents, Their parents must know sharing. They must have
known Sharon Miller if they're comfortable enough to go over
to their house. And again, these are all things where
this information isn't readily available, really, And I just don't
know how deep the scope of investigation went in this case,
especially after nine months of being gone. I just don't
(29:16):
feel like if this wasn't a priority case, you weren't
following up on those kind of things. Also, in the
research that I did, Charles Miller said the night that
the last time he was in his home. Was the
last time he was in his home. If they like secked,
they like sealed it off yellow tape, and he was
he never went back into his home after that night
(29:37):
that his mom never came back. So you know, did
they how thorough was their investigation, their sweep of the house,
Like you know, nobody there was nothing suspicious to be
found in the house. And it just was like, it's
weird that I couldn't find anything really about the crime scene.
I guess if you don't know, I guess we know
that she wasn't killed at her home.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
I think they would have known that with the amount
of blood that would have taken. And again if they
transported her in their own car, I think again, I
think she was kidnapped. She was never taken to her house.
There would have been witnesses that would have seen that.
Knowing that there aren't men there in the early morning,
especially at dinner time, I don't think that would have happened.
(30:17):
I think they took her somewhere already picked out, and
either tortured her or did whatever they did, dismembered her,
and then dumped her. And here's the deal. You've got
to rule things in and rule things out. So we
have to look at was it gang related? Was it
organized crime? Was it a loan shark? Why would they
(30:38):
need to conceal her identity if it was to prove hey,
don't mess with us. When we say you owe us money,
you better pay, Or when we tell you we're going
to use your house for ill gotten gains, you better
be okay with it, because you know what happened to
shevon Miller. And then there's other things like was it
a saw, was it a jagged old knife like what
(31:01):
was used to dismember her hands and feet? That would
tell us too how much planning and perhaps where this
would have occurred. So if it's a circular saw, I
can tell you there's a secondary location for sure. If
it's just some jagged knife, it could have been in
the woods fifty feet for the manhole cover, but nine
months later you would have never known it.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Do we know what the cause of death?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
We don't. Now they're in the skull, and then the
other bones that were there, you know there easily could
have been a gunshot wound if that is what happened
to her. But we know some type of straight edge
was used. So if her throat was just cut, we
wouldn't know that. Or if she was maybe stabbed and
they missed bones, we wouldn't know that.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, that decomp was just so terrible. Yeah, this case,
this case, it really won since it was like a
hometown story. It stuck off to us very much. But
also it's you know, it feels like maybe forty years
ago this was maybe a solvable case with some manpower
(32:07):
behind it. You know, now there's been so much time.
Who knows how much you know, there's been all these advances,
you know, as far as like codis and all these
other things where you know, there's these databases and stuff
where you can match them with maybe another perpetrator. Because
to me, I feel like if this was a professional hit,
either that person's so good they've never been caught. But
if they have been caught, they're in some kind of
(32:28):
database if there was something left behind. But forty two
years is just like, I mean, who knows what's left?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Well, there wouldn't have been many cameras back then. There
was no DNA, so even if we had gotten the
blanket early, we wouldn't be able to match it to anybody.
The only thing they could have told you in nineteen
eighty three was whether the person was oh negative, ab positive.
Whatever they could do blood typing, but that was it.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
So even the evidence that's available is kind of useless.
You're saying, well.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Right now, because it was in the environment that it
was in for nine months, there probably would be nothing
usable there. And again there's no clear injury. Like sometimes
when you stab somebody, even the tip of the knife
can get stuck in a rib and break off. There
could be other evidence that that's what occurred, but in
(33:19):
this situation, I don't think that's what happened. I think
she might have been strangled and dismembered and tossed pretty quick.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
So basically, you know, what we're hoping for is a
tip or a confession.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
At this point, yes, somebody knows. I can tell you
they know because you're talking about a group of people.
And what happens over forty years is I might have
been loyal to you when I was twenty one. Well
I'm not loyal to you at sixty one. I'm not
afraid of you anymore. And maybe the person I was
afraid of is dead or in prison, because I will
(33:57):
tell you, maybe not for me, but most people that
ran in a group like that that would have done
this has gone to jail or prison for something, so
they're probably not unknown to law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, and at this point there, I mean, they're like
in their seventies eighties, and I think that, Yeah, I mean,
you know, the whole snitching culture around stories like this,
like you, like you just said, I mean, if I'm
twenty thirty years old, there's reasons for me, whether I'm
in the life still or I'm afraid of people who are.
But at this point, anybody who does know something, this
(34:33):
is just some horrible story from your youth that you remember.
I don't see if all this story needs is a
little bit of attention to get to that person. I
don't see why somebody who knows something wouldn't come forward
because you know, like, who are you protecting at this.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Point, Alvid, I can't agree more. In the bottom line
is this is not I'm gonna keep my uncle's illegal
activity a secret. I get that. But even the people
that are now in their seventies or eighties, they had
underlins at the time, they had somebody that was in
their group that was fifteen. Well, you have somebody in
(35:13):
your community that would not only kill a young mom,
but cut off her hands and feet. I'm sorry, that's
something I tale. I mean, I understand having the back
of people that you're a writer, die, I mean, that's
your husband, that's your dad, that's your boyfriend, that's your brother.
(35:34):
I get it. But forty years when you've got a
man sitting over there since he was eleven years old,
not knowing why this happened to her, he deserves answers.
Because I tried to get in touch with Charles too,
and I couldn't find him.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah. No, I mean he was interviewed for an article
in a local newspaper that I got some information from.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
So I mean, well, hopefully he'll hear this and reach
out to y'all.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, I would hope that, and I would get back
in touch with you if that was to happen. But yeah,
I mean, I wasn't able to find anything like a
independent charity or anything that I could reach out to
him personally about. I did look for. I didn't look
for that.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Alvin fran Sale, I cannot tell you what it meant
to me to have y'all own Zone seven Field Michel.
So I just appreciate you both and I appreciate you
bringing sharing story to us.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Of course, we hope, we hope we can do some
good for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, well we're gonna keep working, so Alvin fran Sale,
thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Matt Absol.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I
always do with a quote. If one really wishes to
know how justice is administered, one does not question the police,
the lawyers, the judges, or the protected class. One goes
to the unprotected and listens to their testimony. James Balwin.
(37:05):
I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven. Mm hm
Dismemberment and homicides are rare, so when they happen, attention
needs to be placed on it. Sharon Miller went missing
April twenty eighth, nineteen eighty two, but it would be
nine months before her remains were found by utility workers
(00:30):
on January fourteenth, nineteen eighty three. Her hands and feet
were missing, a blue blanket was covering her decomposed remains.
Her remains were found in a wooded, secluded area of
Baltimore County off powder Mill Road in Woodlawn. She was
(00:53):
just twenty nine years old and her son only eleven. Tonight,
we have two special young men joining us who brought
us this case, Alvin Williams and France L. Evans from
Affirmative Murder podcast. Now let me tell you all about them.
(01:13):
They are wonderful young men. They are handsome, they are funny,
they are smart, they are friendly, they're good businessmen. There's
not enough good I can say about them. I will
tell you how we met. I was walking down the
hall at Crime Con and they were doing a live broadcast,
(01:34):
and suddenly they started talking to me like we had
known each other for twenty years. And I just found
their whole vibe, just the way they engaged, so honest
and so fun because even though we were talking about murder,
their sense of humor led the conversation. Their podcast is
(01:55):
a true crime comedy podcast, y'all. They swamp murder stories
from marginalized communities while they tried. This is a quote
not to rant about fast food or what is actually
buried in graveyards. Gentlemen, Welcome to Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Thank you Mac mac mac. It is a pleasure to
be here. I can't really, you know, put this into
words in any other way other than whenever I speak
to it feels like a short stack of griddle cakes
with a side of the best grit you've ever had
in your life. And it makes me so warm and happy.
It's always good to speak to And thanks for having
(02:36):
us and saying such nice things.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Oh, Alvin, I'm going to remember that forever. I may
have to get me something with that written on it.
And Franzail, seriously, the first time we met, it was
like have I met them before? I mean, y'all just
have this way of engaging with people that's just wonderful.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, you're an easy chat so and that's why you're
so good at what you do. You are an easy
conversation list for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Well, this is an important evening and I think we're
going to have a lot of fun, but we're gonna
shed some light on a case that I think needs
a spotlight. And y'all, you may or may not know
the way I work, but I'm a cromising investigator for
a living still and I have a way of working
cold cases. And I call it the last twenty four
So I take the last twenty four hours of a
(03:25):
victim's life and I try to see where they intersected
with the killer. And in Sharon's Miller case, I'm going
to tell you the fact that she had visitors the
night before. Alvin tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So according to her son Charles, who was eleven years
old at the time, the last time he had saw
his mom, she had had a few gentlemen over at
the house. I don't know if it was a party
or what, but they were conversating and he was on
his way out to play and just a little behind
baseball a bit. I mean, I grew up not far
from where this took place. Obviously it was a few
(04:02):
decades later, but my mom had me at a younger age,
I really resonate with the perspective of her son. And
you know, so I can that being the last thing
you see. And if it was a normal situation, you
know it. You know, it would have been not a
second thought if he comes on and everything's fine. But
according to him, this was concerning to him. But when
(04:25):
he got back, she was still home. And then he
said that he heard her on a phone call where
she said something to the effect of when you bring
my son into it, that's when you start a war
with me. And he said that night they slept on
the couch together instead of in their own individual bedrooms,
which again is odd. It could be a cute moment,
(04:48):
but after you hear something like that on the phone,
you start to piece things together, especially after we get
to what happens, you know, all of those things, the gentleman,
the phone call, everything becomes concerning. And he said the
next day he woke up and he went to cool
and when he got home that later that evening, his
mom wasn't.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
There now, Franz Hail, when I was growing up, if
a group of adults had come over to my house,
ain't no way I'm leaving baby. That was original reality TV.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
That's a fact.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So even if my mom and dad said y'all go
out and play, it takes me an hour and a
half to put my shoes on because I want the gossip.
I want to know what's going on because it's good.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yes, when you hear the good stuff, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
That's when you hear the good stuff. Did you know
you shouldn't be privy too? So when you heard that
there were visitors, then a follow up phone call, then
she made sure her child was with her in the den,
not alone in his bedroom. What did you take from
all of that?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I took from that that. I mean, obviously that's there's fear.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
If you get a phone you hear a phone call
like that, and then a night comes and you and
mom goes, you know, let's sleep on the couch. You
know that. I think still at eleven years old, you know,
there's some thoughts creeping in and were like, you know
that that's kind of weird. But just hearing that, I'm like,
there's fear and mom you know, it's trying to protect
her baby what a mom is supposed to do. And
(06:13):
I think that that alone speaks.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Volumes, sounds like she took it seriously. So here's what
we know. We know they knew where she lived, we
know they knew her phone number. So these are somebody
in her immediate social circle. Alvin, do you think her
having adults over at the house was a rare occurrence
or did he just think this is weird because they're
(06:36):
all men?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Because he left anyway, Yeah, I racked my brain about
that because he still went out and played and so
like we just we jokingly said that, but I fully
agree with that. I mean, if this was a group
of people that he was familiar with, he might not
have been as reticent to go outside because oh, it's
my favorite cousins or you know, my favorite uncle, or
(06:59):
I'm gonna hang in the house and just you know,
play some games, but hang out on the steps and listen.
That tells me that it might have been not as
normal of an occurrence, and it felt like something that
kids are not allowed to be around for, like it
you know, maybe maybe sharing is like it's time to
go outside, and you're going outside. I was thinking the
same thing. But this isn't a conversation meant for you to.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Hear, right, Yeah, that checks out to me.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, and it being a group of men. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's definitely concerning.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So Franzail. The next morning, they get up, he has
owned a school, she heads to work, and what happens.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So then he comes home and then you know mom
is missing. We don't know, we don't know where mom
is at this point. And as a kid, I mean
coming home and you see your mom before you go
to school and come home and like, okay, where's mom.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Mom's not home.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I think that's that's a big concerning As a eleven
year old child, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And they had a routine. I mean it's just the
two of them, so he would know she would be
here by five o'clock, four or whatever the time was.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I like, much like Charles, I was also a latch
key kid. I believe friend was a latch key kid too,
so like I wouldn't get concerned. There was one time
I locked myself out of my house and my mom
didn't get home until six thirty. But I knew that,
so you know, in this instance, I'm worried about getting
in trouble because I lost the key again. But but
(08:22):
I know, like I just need to go hang out
at a friend's house until six thirty and then my
mom will be home and I can get into the house.
So he goes, and he goes down to down the
street a couple doors to his friend's house and stays there,
you know. But I'm sure at once, at some point
it's like, okay, works over. Maybe she went to the
grocery store. That doesn't take that long. There's a point
in which, you know, when you're a last chey kid,
(08:43):
a kid of a single mom, you know, like there's
a window where Okay, she's supposed to be bad specting
by now yep, you know, And so that window passed,
you know, and now concern is real. And at some point,
you know, after a few days of staying at his
friend's house, which you know, who knows the you know,
the fear that you're feeling, he saw people gathered outside
(09:05):
the house and that's when he knew like something was wrong.
She was missing.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So, Franz Helle, do we know how she got to work?
Did she take a car, a bus? Walk? Do we
know that?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
The research I've done, they couldn't find anything about her
transportation to work at all? But that is raised some
questions as far as like you know, did she get
a ride or like did she catch a bus and
stuff like that. So I don't you know, as some
information I was, I wasn't able to find.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I wasn't able to find it either. I couldn't even
find if she made it to.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Work right that day. Yeah, exactly, same, Okay. One thing,
one thing that I would note for people who have
never been to Baltimore. So there's the city, which is
the city is the city no matter where you are.
But then the county would be similar to the suburbs
and other places, like there's the city in the suburbs,
so the county's outside of the city. But then the
further outside of the city that you start to get,
(09:56):
it starts to become a lot more like the sticks.
So you know, do you think suburbs, you think nice,
But then you know, the further out you get, you
kind of invert back around and it becomes low income
living situations, not just like oh the suburban life. It
becomes like just grassy low income and that's really Woodlawn
(10:18):
kind of is in the middle of That's got some
suburban areas, but it's got some areas that are as
as rough as any neighborhood in the city.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So for Sharon Miller, it would be even more difficult
to get around.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yes, because it's very spread out. So that could be
a bus line, that could be catching a hack or
like a friend giving a carpool type of situation. But
it's definitely not walkable like the city is.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So in this neighborhood, you have an African American, single mom,
no man in the house, making it, but barely do
you think law enforcements reaction was she'll show up. She's
probably just with a date somewhere. There might be drugs,
(11:02):
there might be other situations that would take her away
from her child for a couple of days. Because even
he didn't panic day one.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, I definitely believe that that played a role in it.
Because one, I think that in the case of the
forty eight hour rule, if you have reliable people around
you to advocate for you, it put you know, it
lights a fire under the asses of detectives. But for
your biggest advocate to be an eleven year old, it's
kind of like, well, we're going to probably stick to
(11:31):
our traditional system of give it forty eight hours. You know,
let them see if they turn up. Because the word
of this eleven year old saying well, my mom's really
nice and she is the best mom in the world.
It is like, well, that doesn't give us a like
insight into her character. So I think that they probably
stuck to the traditional forty eight hours. Maybe she'll turn up.
She might have you know, dipped off into a corner,
(11:54):
went off with a friend, a fling or something like that,
and she'll be back. Let's see if she turns up.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And Alvin, that's a good point. That brings me to
the person that I always like to interview. And Franzille,
that's the best friend. Do we know her best.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Friend based on this, you know, mysterious group of men
that she hung around with. It's hard to say that.
You know, I knew, I know that I don't know
where she worked, but I know she had a nine
to five job, and you know, she was keeping a
roof over her children's head. But the phone call and
the group of men tells me that she might have
(12:31):
been dating someone who ran in dark circles. She might
have been, you know, hanging out with the wrong crowd.
And you know, also, you know, and I hate to
put disparaging ideas about anybody you know in a situation
like this, but a lot of times young people in
situation like this, specifically women and women in the area
(12:52):
that she was from, they get caught up in uh oh,
can we keep this at your house type of situation,
you know, Can we use your basement? Can we can
we stash this here or something like that, you know,
And I just get that read from this. I don't
want to talk ill of someone that is not here
with us, but it just I just feel like Sharon
(13:16):
got caught up in something that was bigger than her,
and she picked her side and something went wrong.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Here's the deal. People will come to you because they
want to use your house to hide drugs, in store drugs,
in use it as a gambling spot for like an
underground you know, card party. They might even run prostitution
out of your house. And you get a cut, just
(13:43):
like a casino. And sometimes it's easy to say, hey,
I'm not going to make a rent unless I do
this favor. And then again, my child can have a
roof over their head and food and new shoes. And
I'm not doing anything illegal. I'm not selling drugs, I'm
not gambling. I'm just letting them use the basement. So
(14:04):
it's easy to almost convince yourself that everything's going to
be okay. But then if you don't want to play anymore,
they may not let you out.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, we talk about that a lot, just off Mike,
just just living life in the world where you go.
You know, easy money sounds easy until you don't want
to make it anymore, you know, Like then it's like, well,
if they tell you you can't stop making this money,
we're gonna keep giving it to you, and we're going
to keep doing whatever we're doing, whatever favor you're doing.
Who are you going to go to the police, Like,
who are you going to tell? Who are you going
(14:34):
to ask for help? Exactly another CD criminal And.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
This sounds like this person did exactly that because her
child heard her say, if you put my son in it,
that's going to be a war. Well, number one, that's
a good mama right there. Again, it would be somebody
that had to know her know how she would react.
That's the only child she's got, and she is going
(14:59):
to put herself between that baby and danger. She did it.
That's why they were on the sofa. I guarantee he
was on the inside, and she was on the outside, and.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Like you said about them knowing her phone number, how
to contact her, where she lived, everything. This was like
definitely either someone who was at that home that night
or had been at that home before.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And knew how to reach her. Because again you may
like I had a buddy down the street growing up.
He would always just come to the house, knock on
the door and see if me and my sisters wanted
to come out and play. He never knew our phone number.
So this is somebody that knew next level and they
did it the night before she went missing.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah, when we do stories like this one, I'll show
I like to and me outn you know, go kind
of have it back and forth. I kind of like
to play Devil's advocate a little bit, So I always
go as a mom in her situation. Like you said, Mac,
you know, you may need money, you may not be
able to know full rent this month. How do you
say no to something like that? And I understand you
(16:02):
get caught up and you know the risk, but it's like, okay, well,
how you know this is the only chance I have
right now for my child to eat.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
That's right, And especially if you're doing something that's not
hurting anybody. You're just having a card game. That's all
you're doing. You're letting people come into your basement and
leave your basement, and leave your basement. Yeah, nothing has happened.
Nobody got hurt, nobody got robbed, nobody got stabbed. It
(16:29):
was gambling. It's easy to justify that, especially when you're
trying to feed a child and she had a job.
But we all know, I mean, there are days I
can put a new tire on my car, and there
are days I might have to ride crazy for a week.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, it.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Happens. I mean, it happens. And especially if you don't
have the support system. You don't have an extra adult
in the house helping, You don't have maybe family that
has is it better than you, that can take him
for a weekend and feed him while you can just
go hungry this you know, you have no option as
a mama. I mean, he's got to eat, especially at eleven,
(17:11):
you know. But here's one thing that sticks out for me.
This case took at a minimum, a kidnapping, drive her somewhere,
murder her, drive her somewhere else to to pose her body,
dismember her, cover her with a blanket, remove a manhole
(17:34):
cover that weighed one hundred and fifty pounds, put it
back and drive away. The last seven of those steps
had nothing to do with accomplishing a murder. That's something
that killer or killers wanted to happen, so they took
extra time. And any time you do something extra, that's
(17:56):
an extra step, you might get caught. So when they're
dry her in their car, they could have had a wreck,
they could have got stopped for speeding whatever. As they're
doing the murder, they could be seen, somebody could hear something,
you know, throwing her out in the woods. All of
these things. I mean, utility workers found her. So it's
not like they're in a place people don't go. Yeah,
(18:18):
So anytime I see that added risk, we've got to
factor that.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Into I always like to say mac like, look, I
went to Hardley University. Like I hardly know how to
walk and choo gum, I like, I hardly know. There's
a lot of.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Stuff I don't know, right, we need to make sure.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Feel free. But one hundred and fifty pounds manhole cover,
you know it was it was just in the woods
enough that it was work, but not a lot of work. Right.
So you know, when me and Fran had discussed this
before and he brought up about what if this was
like sending a message type of situation, and at first
I agree, but then I went well, to me, especially
(18:59):
if talking to you like for how much we've discussed it.
To me, it sounds like there's no question that she
knew who these people were, because if you were going
to send the message, you'd make you put her out
on display. But it feels like they wanted her to
disappear to the best of their ability to make that happen.
And to me, that says she was connected to them
in some kind of way as to where she comes
(19:21):
a missing They're going straight to these people.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
One hundred percent, and I have a question about that.
So she's missing nine months, her hands and feet are missing,
which could be you're just crazy and twisted and did that.
It could mean you removed fingerprints. It could mean you
took them as a calling card to show somebody. Look,
I made her disappear. They'll never find her. But here's
(19:47):
her rings, right, So if they did it as intimidation,
which I believe what the night before was all about,
if you've got a single Mama, with no man in
the house, you don't need to send four or five
men over there. One would scare the daylights out of me.
But then you follow up with a phone call just
to make sure that I take you seriously and I
(20:09):
threaten your child. It almost sounds like organized crime.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yes, And that's why I go with that second theory
of this was a an organized hit in my opinion,
you know, just because like you said, I mean, could
someone be just the psychopathy is off the charts and
they're just like I collect hands. Sure, but I just
feel like we'd see there would be another case of
this which I looked up, Like I looked up for
(20:35):
the time for the decade in Baltimore. There was no
other like hands and feet bodies in the more Jane
does anything. So to me, I go they didn't want
the fingerprints to be identified. It just doesn't feel like
this was just a crazy person cutting off people's hands
and feet. And also I guess it could have been
possibly someone taking those hands and feet showing them to somebody,
(20:59):
but like, who who was that for it? If it
was intimidation, you know, And I don't think it would
be to show to your friends to brag about. So
I just go those hands and feet were removed and
thrown away into a river or something like that.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
It could be Alvin, absolutely, But I'll tell you something,
Franzille that always tickles me when I hear people say, oh,
they cut off the hands so they couldn't be identified,
but you left the face. So if she had been
found sooner, they absolutely would have known who it was.
And here's my other question. It seems to me that
(21:33):
once she was found, they identified her quick And my
question is, in nineteen eighty three, how did they do that?
There would have been no DNA, there'd have been no rings,
no tattoos, no shoes, like, how did they do it?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, and they said the body was badly decomposed.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Oh nine months in a sewer. Absolutely, so absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I'm just as puzzled by that as well. But one
thing that I will say is based on some of
the things that I saw from the BCPD database from
nineteen seventy to twenty twenty, there are only about seventy
cold cases that are unsolved. So obviously, you know, listen,
friends of Postman. One thing that Postman and detectives have
(22:18):
in common, well, two things They both say donuts, love donuts,
And two they both know that the mail never stops, right, Like,
so you're a detective, there's new bodies piling up on
your desk every day, so that makes it hard to
focus in on a cold case. But nine months of
no leads and you might not have as many unsolved
(22:39):
murders as you think to go to, you know, in
that timeframe. So maybe it was like you know, black women,
you know that they could get an age range on her,
this woman's been missing since this time, if they can
line up. I don't, mack, you tell me, is that
that's not DNA? Is it to line up you know,
decomp times as best as possible obviously as the element
(23:00):
were tough, But like if they can say she's probably
been here nine.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Or so months, yeah, they would be able to estimate that.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Okay, So that takes you back to whoever was missing
nine or so months ago, So that'd be my best
guess because like you said, I mean, the body was
horribly decomposed, so I don't think face was the easiest
thing to go off of.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
And that's kind of what I was getting at, is
that that must be what it was. There was one
person missing in that age bracket. You know that they could,
I guess, take the totality of what happened, the proximity
of where she lived, where she was found, all those
sorts of things. I'm going to ask y'all this too.
(23:43):
And Franzille, my grandfather was a rural letter carrier, and
you know he rains leet, hell or snow, carried that
bag all over. Criminals typically are lazy, So that's why
you hear things like somebody was found in a shallow grave,
(24:04):
because once they start digging that grave, they can't get
six feet, they can't get four feet, they get wore out,
they're tired, they're like it ain't worth it, and they
just do the best they can and cover somebody with debris.
This person drug a dead body and then removed the
manhole cover. So this is somebody again that took extra time,
(24:28):
extra strength to do what they thought was necessary. And
I agree with both of y'all to hide her identity forever.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
So Mac, do you when you a case like this,
do you look at this case and go this was
a one man a one man job, or do you
think this was a one man job?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
No, I don't I think this was more than one person.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I don't think so either, right.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
And I think we know it again from the night before.
If you look at the last twenty four, the answer
is going to be there. And this sound to me
like you had one person driving and at least one
person shotgun and they kidnapped her. So either she was
walking to the bus, walking into her building, walking out
(25:11):
of her building. That's why it's so critical if we
can find out from Charles did she make it to work,
because if she didn't, that means the killer had at
least eight hours that day. If she didn't make it
to work, they only had a few So this was
a quick thing. But you figure one person's in the car,
(25:32):
one person pulls up to her, grabs her, gets her
in the car, and now has her under control, probably
with a firearm, and then they do what they do.
They take her to whatever location is the murder scene.
So you have a primary scene. I believe where she was,
you know, tossed, was a secondary scene. I believe that
(25:52):
her hands and feet were taken to show somebody. And
I'll just make it simple. Let's just say it was
a drug dealing pimp. He's got two things he's running
and she saw something. She's sitting the scene, or she
said I won't out and if you don't let me out,
I'm going to tell the police. Whatever. The focus became
on her and it, and it was very clear they
(26:15):
weren't going to let her out. She wasn't going to
survive it, even to the point they said, we'll get
you and your child. So I think it took more
than one person to get this done. She would not
have gone willingly. And there's no record that anybody was screaming.
There was no record that somebody saw somebody get kidnapped,
So that tells me I think it was soon after
(26:38):
she left the house.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I agree. And also I just don't think one person
lifted that manhole cover like you said.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I don't either, especially not after driving a dead body.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, the criminals are lazy. This is razy. Yeah, one
hundred and fifty pounds, it's not impossible, but nobody it's like.
And it's also to me, it feels like they looked
at whatever the scene is that they chose and picked
it ahead of time. They knew it, you know, like
a man in the area like to know you can
open this, and there's like a little pocket of space.
(27:08):
They to bring a blanket to cover her. I think
that they were confident that no one would ever find her,
you know, I think that they I think they felt
like they had gone the extra mile. And you know,
something make you bring up a good point where you go, yeah,
I mean, let's say these were for hire men. Well, yeah,
you would take the hands and feet, maybe so that
(27:28):
they can't find fingerprints, but also to prove to whoever
hired you it's done to just not take your word
for it, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
And here's the deal, friends, Hell, you know this because
you walk in front of the same houses every day,
You're going to know whether somebody had a party. They
don't normally have a lot of trash. Now they've got
eight bags out there, so you may recognize, oh, they
got a brand new dog, or this person just had
a baby. Like you're privy to these neighborhoods. There are
(27:57):
people that knew her landlord knew you know, the other
folks in the neighborhood. There's a lot of times when
we have cases, prostitutes have a ton of information. They
know who's coming in and out of that neighborhood. So
like even we had the missing and murdered children in Atlanta.
Prostitutes gave great information. Has anybody picked you and wanted
(28:21):
you to act this way? Has anybody tied you up
this way? Has anybody pretended to cut your throat this way?
They have information no other segment in the community is
going to have. And if you go to them and
you have a good relationship and you understand their world
and they understand yours, then they will give you that information.
(28:44):
Her best friend, her landlord, some of her co workers.
They know things about her that would give us some
of this victimology and answer some of these questions.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Who are the friends who's home he went to? They
have parents, Their parents must know sharing. They must have
known Sharon Miller if they're comfortable enough to go over
to their house. And again, these are all things where
this information isn't readily available, really, And I just don't
know how deep the scope of investigation went in this case,
especially after nine months of being gone. I just don't
(29:16):
feel like if this wasn't a priority case, you weren't
following up on those kind of things. Also, in the
research that I did, Charles Miller said the night that
the last time he was in his home. Was the
last time he was in his home. If they like secked,
they like sealed it off yellow tape, and he was
he never went back into his home after that night
(29:37):
that his mom never came back. So you know, did
they how thorough was their investigation, their sweep of the house,
Like you know, nobody there was nothing suspicious to be
found in the house. And it just was like, it's
weird that I couldn't find anything really about the crime scene.
I guess if you don't know, I guess we know
that she wasn't killed at her home.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
I think they would have known that with the amount
of blood that would have taken. And again if they
transported her in their own car, I think again, I
think she was kidnapped. She was never taken to her house.
There would have been witnesses that would have seen that.
Knowing that there aren't men there in the early morning,
especially at dinner time, I don't think that would have happened.
(30:17):
I think they took her somewhere already picked out, and
either tortured her or did whatever they did, dismembered her,
and then dumped her. And here's the deal. You've got
to rule things in and rule things out. So we
have to look at was it gang related? Was it
organized crime? Was it a loan shark? Why would they
(30:38):
need to conceal her identity if it was to prove hey,
don't mess with us. When we say you owe us money,
you better pay, Or when we tell you we're going
to use your house for ill gotten gains, you better
be okay with it, because you know what happened to
shevon Miller. And then there's other things like was it
a saw, was it a jagged old knife like what
(31:01):
was used to dismember her hands and feet? That would
tell us too how much planning and perhaps where this
would have occurred. So if it's a circular saw, I
can tell you there's a secondary location for sure. If
it's just some jagged knife, it could have been in
the woods fifty feet for the manhole cover, but nine
months later you would have never known it.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Do we know what the cause of death?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
We don't. Now they're in the skull, and then the
other bones that were there, you know there easily could
have been a gunshot wound if that is what happened
to her. But we know some type of straight edge
was used. So if her throat was just cut, we
wouldn't know that. Or if she was maybe stabbed and
they missed bones, we wouldn't know that.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, that decomp was just so terrible. Yeah, this case,
this case, it really won since it was like a
hometown story. It stuck off to us very much. But
also it's you know, it feels like maybe forty years
ago this was maybe a solvable case with some manpower
(32:07):
behind it. You know, now there's been so much time.
Who knows how much you know, there's been all these advances,
you know, as far as like codis and all these
other things where you know, there's these databases and stuff
where you can match them with maybe another perpetrator. Because
to me, I feel like if this was a professional hit,
either that person's so good they've never been caught. But
if they have been caught, they're in some kind of
(32:28):
database if there was something left behind. But forty two
years is just like, I mean, who knows what's left?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Well, there wouldn't have been many cameras back then. There
was no DNA, so even if we had gotten the
blanket early, we wouldn't be able to match it to anybody.
The only thing they could have told you in nineteen
eighty three was whether the person was oh negative, ab positive.
Whatever they could do blood typing, but that was it.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
So even the evidence that's available is kind of useless.
You're saying, well.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Right now, because it was in the environment that it
was in for nine months, there probably would be nothing
usable there. And again there's no clear injury. Like sometimes
when you stab somebody, even the tip of the knife
can get stuck in a rib and break off. There
could be other evidence that that's what occurred, but in
(33:19):
this situation, I don't think that's what happened. I think
she might have been strangled and dismembered and tossed pretty quick.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
So basically, you know, what we're hoping for is a
tip or a confession.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
At this point, yes, somebody knows. I can tell you
they know because you're talking about a group of people.
And what happens over forty years is I might have
been loyal to you when I was twenty one. Well
I'm not loyal to you at sixty one. I'm not
afraid of you anymore. And maybe the person I was
afraid of is dead or in prison, because I will
(33:57):
tell you, maybe not for me, but most people that
ran in a group like that that would have done
this has gone to jail or prison for something, so
they're probably not unknown to law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, and at this point there, I mean, they're like
in their seventies eighties, and I think that, Yeah, I mean,
you know, the whole snitching culture around stories like this,
like you, like you just said, I mean, if I'm
twenty thirty years old, there's reasons for me, whether I'm
in the life still or I'm afraid of people who are.
But at this point, anybody who does know something, this
(34:33):
is just some horrible story from your youth that you remember.
I don't see if all this story needs is a
little bit of attention to get to that person. I
don't see why somebody who knows something wouldn't come forward
because you know, like, who are you protecting at this.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Point, Alvid, I can't agree more. In the bottom line
is this is not I'm gonna keep my uncle's illegal
activity a secret. I get that. But even the people
that are now in their seventies or eighties, they had
underlins at the time, they had somebody that was in
their group that was fifteen. Well, you have somebody in
(35:13):
your community that would not only kill a young mom,
but cut off her hands and feet. I'm sorry, that's
something I tale. I mean, I understand having the back
of people that you're a writer, die, I mean, that's
your husband, that's your dad, that's your boyfriend, that's your brother.
(35:34):
I get it. But forty years when you've got a
man sitting over there since he was eleven years old,
not knowing why this happened to her, he deserves answers.
Because I tried to get in touch with Charles too,
and I couldn't find him.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah. No, I mean he was interviewed for an article
in a local newspaper that I got some information from.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
So I mean, well, hopefully he'll hear this and reach
out to y'all.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, I would hope that, and I would get back
in touch with you if that was to happen. But yeah,
I mean, I wasn't able to find anything like a
independent charity or anything that I could reach out to
him personally about. I did look for. I didn't look
for that.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Alvin fran Sale, I cannot tell you what it meant
to me to have y'all own Zone seven Field Michel.
So I just appreciate you both and I appreciate you
bringing sharing story to us.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Of course, we hope, we hope we can do some
good for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, well we're gonna keep working, so Alvin fran Sale,
thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Matt Absol.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I
always do with a quote. If one really wishes to
know how justice is administered, one does not question the police,
the lawyers, the judges, or the protected class. One goes
to the unprotected and listens to their testimony. James Balwin.
(37:05):
I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven. Mm hm
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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