October 15, 2025 • 32 mins
Sometimes the most powerful lessons in justice come from the most unexpected places. In this episode of Zone 7, Sheryl McCollum joins retired FBI agent Scott Duffey and retired NYPD Sergeant Joseph Giacalone for the first-ever Wildlife CSI Academy at Pennsylvania's Lake Tobias Wildlife Park. Surrounded by giraffes, kangaroos, and a sloth named Chewy, they reflect on how working beside endangered animals reshaped their understanding of empathy, preparation, and teamwork. This heartfelt conversation reminds us that sometimes the best lessons in justice come from the wild.
Guest Bio and Links:
Joseph Giacalone is a retired NYPD Sergeant (SDS) and former Commanding Officer of the Bronx Cold Case Squad. He serves as an adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and is the author of The Criminal Investigative Function: A Guide for New Investigators and The Cold Case Handbook. Giacalone also hosts True Crime with the Sarge and is a frequent media commentator on criminal investigations.
Scott Duffey is a retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent who served more than two decades in the Bureau's Baltimore Division, including the Wilmington Resident Agency and the Delaware Violent Crimes Task Force. He now directs the Criminal Justice Institute at Wilmington University and continues to teach interview and interrogation techniques to law-enforcement professionals. Duffey also provides on-air crime analysis for FOX, CNN, and NewsNation
Highlights:
- (0:00) Sheryl welcomes Scott Duffey and Joseph Giacalone to Zone 7
- (1:00) A zoo like no other: first impressions of Lake Tobias Wildlife Park and the unique setting for CSI training
- (5:00) Television fact vs. Fiction: Joseph explains how collaboration really happens
- (5:45) Honoring Jane Goodall: fighting poaching through education, enforcement, and compassion
- (8:45) From cocktails to classrooms: The Hamptons Whodunit conversation that sparked the Wildlife CSI Academy
- (11:45) Animal cameos that stole the spotlight: Chester the kangaroo and Chewy the sloth
- (12:45) Finding common ground: why humor, empathy, and humanity are essential in every interview
- (16:00) "Hope is not a plan.” Joseph’s reminder that preparation beats wishful thinking every time
- (23:15) Wild encounters on safari: from bison to black panthers
- (25:15) Scott’s new friend: the monkey that steals cell phones
- (26:00) Joseph’s “Wine and Crime” talk on cold cases and community advocacy
- (31:30) Closing thoughts, Jane Goodall, and justice for all creatures
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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award-winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnline, forensic and crime scene expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. She is the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a national collaboration that advances techniques for solving cold cases and assists families and law enforcement with unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnappings.
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
- Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Y'all. I don't even think y'all are ready for what
I am going to just throw at y'all tonight, because
we have got retired NYPD Sergeant Joe Jack Alone. Y'all
know him, y'all love him, the Sorge Honey, he is here,
and our friend Scott Duffy, FBI, retired Supervisory Senior Resident
(00:33):
Agent of Delaware is in the house. Gentlemen, welcome to
Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hey, Cheryl, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
You know what I am doing? Fantastic, Serge, But I
got to tell you I am not doing as good
as I was a few days ago when I was
with you in Scott Duffy at a zoo. Let me
tell y'all we had an opportunity to be at Lake
Tobias for the first Wildlife CSI Academy training inside of
a zoo and at Lake Tobias Wildlife part I mean, Scott,
(01:06):
I'm just going to start with you. You had the
very first class that first morning. Tell me what you
thought just of the venue.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Okay, so.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
You've allowed a couple hours for this, sherl because I
cannot stop talking about Lake Tobias. So first and foremost
being about probably two two and a half hours southeast
of Lake Tobias. I didn't know it was on the map,
(01:36):
and this treasure to be so close, and for that
to be my first visit, shame on me. But let
me just tell you arriving in the hills of Pennsylvania
and seeing this big, beautiful sign Lake Tobias. You got
all different types of entrances. I'm figuring out which entrance
(01:57):
and then i just have kangaroos running towards my car,
only stopped by a fence, and I'm like, wow, where
am I?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yes, yes, it's an unbelievable place. And then you know,
we get into the classroom and we've got some incredible
people that have come and your topic is interviewing, and
we even had doctor Pria there. And for those of
y'all that know doctor Pria Energy, you know she went
(02:27):
to the Johns Hopkins. I mean, she's not an idiot. Okay,
she's had some training, she's had some education. She's never
had anything like training with Scott Duffy. She can't stop
talking about that and how important it was for her
to learn some of those techniques.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, thank you. I'm very humbled by it and the
people that have been there, the showing up into the classroom,
from doctor pria to to nurses to police officers. I'm
just at the top of my head, I'm rattlingitols, social workers,
probation officers, both federal and state students, students from area colleges,
(03:12):
just all different walks of life, every different profession And
that's a little nerve wracking to a teacher to see
and to be in front of. Okay, this is not
your typical student. These are professionals who definitely know a
(03:32):
thing or two about interviewing, and so just to be
in the room with them, it was an amazing experience.
But wow, alls, I can say as well.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Just wow. And you know, Joe, I thought, you know,
for this Wine and Crime, I'm gonna let the sarge
do his thing. He's going to keep him so captivated
because they broke the mole with you, honey. But little
did I know that something was going to steal the
show from you.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, my buddy, uh the slough there.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
So I was like, that's my spirit animal, right, So yeah,
he did everything but fall into my lap or fall
into my head.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
As long as he didn't poop on me, I think
we would.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Have been all right, but it was it was a
great time. And yeah, being in that environment and that
in that that kind of theater and you got the
animals around you. You're surrounded by snakes and alligators and
everything else that goes along with it kind of adds
to the the whole atmosphere. Like I said, the only
thing that was that iog was higher on is is
(04:37):
climbing that mountain into the car trying to get up
there to lake device.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
That was an interesting geez. That was it was. It
was like a vertical.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
But yeah, no, it was a lot of fun and
getting a chance to meet all the people there was
it was. It was really a good time, even though
I took a couple of cheap shots at the FBI, Right, Scout.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Joe, you always look at it first of all, not
only your.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
But you.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Having worked so close with every agency. You couldn't have
said it any better when the fact that we're all partners,
and I think NYPD is absolutely there is no better
than NYPD. I would say the FBI likes to emulate NYPD.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well, well, you know what it was like spelling A
lot of the stuff that people see on television is important.
I mean I always tell like I tell my students,
you know, television is entertainment, not education, and it's far
from reality. It's been distorted law enforcement work and everybody's
always fighting and everything else. People are stealing cases and
it's further that couldn't be further from the truth.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well, you know what I thought was so important. It
was ironic and somehow fitting to me that we got
to honor Jane Goodall in this. And you know, she
was one of those folks that believed, if you're really
going to fight poaching, you've got to do it at
several levels. Right, You've got to have a community based education,
(06:07):
you've got to strengthen your law enforcement, and you've got
to support these animal sanctuaries. Well we did that. Not
only did we have the absolutely ground level, street level,
I guess wildlife sanctuary level approach to you know, training
community and what needs to happen to fight this poaching problem,
(06:30):
but you know, we gave law enforcement not just training
but equipment, and then we supported financially the animal sanctuary.
So I was real proud of what we accomplished in
those two days, and it is absolutely in large part
because of Scott Duffy and Joe Jackaloane.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, remember too on World Animal Day too. So it
was a kind of coming together of all these working parts.
And the fact that you know Scott and I and you, Cheryl,
we know each other for a long time now, that
always helps with that. But I'll tell you the staff
at the Bias Wildlife Park were.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Unbelievable, unbelievable. I told several of them if I were Oprah,
they would have all gotten a car. I mean, they
were kind, they were not rushed, they were not irritated,
they stayed late, they maintained just an unbelievably gracious and
(07:32):
happy and giving, just personality. I don't think they could
have done any better.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
No, the backdrop of everything, how this all came to
be just the right people, the right timing, And then
of course everything that you have been thinking about, Cheryl,
whether it goes from the imagination, everybody has these grand
plans going to happen. I'm never going to be able
(08:01):
to accomplish it. What you've been able to do, to
take out of that mind of yours, and then to
be able to call upon a few friends, Hey, can
you be here at a certain time in a certain place,
because guess what we have linked to bias that it's
going to roll out the red carpet. Wow, everything soup,
the nuts, animals, the staff. I cannot think of all
(08:28):
the different classrooms I have been around the world with
the FBI, that does not compare to what you were
able to put together last week.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Well, I appreciate you saying it, but as you well know,
when this whole thing really began to take shape, you
were standing right there, and so was Joe, and you know, transparency.
There might have been some drinking involved, but here's what happened, y'all.
We are at the Hampton's Who Done It? Which Joe
puts off on the true crime side, and it is remarkable.
(09:04):
And so we go to a cocktail party and my
husband and I have this thing that if we're across
the room, if one of us is ready to go,
or we run into some crazy person or you know whatever,
or if it's something great, we have a signal so
we know to come together. We're either going to do
the Irish goodbye, or we're going to tell everybody goodbye,
or we're going to stay. So I'm across the room
(09:26):
and I do my check on him. He is waving
for me to come over like it is Christmas Eve.
So I go over and there's Jenna Tobias standing there
and Walt says, tell her, tell her what you told me,
and Jenna laughs and she said, okay, I just told
Walt that I grew up literally inside of a zoo.
(09:47):
And I was knocked out because part of what we
wanted with the Wildlife CSI Academy is we wanted a
zoo because we have TSA in Atlanta, we have a courthouse,
we have a farm, we have sworn animals. So this
was the piece of the puzzle that was missing. And
I said, Jenna, do you think that your family would
(10:12):
want to host a law enforcement training and a community
whining crime. She said, sure, absolutely that'll happen. And Scott,
you and your wife were standing right there, as well
as Nicole and some other folks, and then, of course
I will tell you all this part. On the way home.
Me and Walt started laughing, and I'm like, please, don't
be a crazy person, Please don't be a crazy person
(10:33):
telling me you grew up in the zoo and you didn't,
but nope, she grew up in a zoo. The house
is still right there in the middle of it. And
when you know, Scott and Joe have both said just
how wonderful that family is. They have not overstated it
for a moment. And I'm telling you, there's even some
things we couldn't control that were perfect. And that was
(10:55):
the weather, the food, the rooms, the animals, like every
single thing just fell into place so beautifully.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And the place was clean, you know, for a zoo
it was.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
It was very clean, I mean, and it was everybody
was friendly, the staff, I mean, people who didn't weren't
even partaking in what we were there for, were still over
accommodating it. And you know, it really is. It's such
a nice family and it's really it makes it even better.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, it's incredible. And you know that's something that me
and Charlene talked about my sister that if I had
been kidnapped and blindfolded, I wouldn't even know I was
in a zoo. A lot of times when you get
to a zoo, honey, you know it when you're in
the parking lot. But this zoo was not that way.
I mean, I can't describe these animals. It was almost
(11:49):
like a movie, you know, queue the zebra que the
baby camel, queue the you know, the baby giraffe. I
mean we got to feed giraffes, Scott, Wow, did we?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
It's amazing what you have in your mind when you're
thinking of an animal, especially a seventeen foot I believe
was the tallest.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And then you had.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Ali Oliver and it's amazing how they just it's like
you call out their name and they come running.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Don't forget Chester, oh ch Chester.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Let me tell you. Joe and I already had a plan.
He was going to be our drug kangaroo and we
were going to take him right on through TSA Honey
and let him go to work with us, because that
would have changed my entire life this coming monday, when
you know, back on duty, Scott. When you did your class,
(12:47):
one of the first things that you do is you
engage them immediately with something they're not comfortable doing. I
thought that was genius.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, so you know, and I like to teach as
if I'm the student and I know where the students,
so that you have the student of all different backgrounds
and they are there. They're nervous, some know each other,
some came in groups. But ultimately and it was a
very cozy classroom that I want to shake it up.
(13:20):
I want them to feel the pressure of the tension.
Just as if a police officer, detective, an agent is
going into an interview room, we don't have all the answers.
We're just as nervous. And so I want to try
to replicate that with the student. And so I do this.
I just throw out a three x five card. I
put a word on that everybody is familiar with, and
(13:44):
they're looking at the card wondering what to do. I'm
not going to give them an instruction and I'm not
going to give them time to back out. And then
I set the clock thirty seconds, get up, talk about it.
Tell me, without just dead air, what does that word mean?
And it's amazing how everybody did.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Oh, it was amazing from I don't know. I don't
know what to say. I don't know, I have no idea,
I don't know what to say. I can't do this too,
I mean almost like Webster's dictionary. It was one of
the greatest things I've ever seen, and it brought the
group together pretty quick.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
It does it's an amazing icebreaker. It does everything. It
gives them an understanding. Hey, this is not just going
to be a textbook classroom. We're going to be talking,
engaging with one another, and we're going to learn and
be ready for the next one.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
One of the most powerful things you did is immediately
let everybody know and keep whether you meant to or not,
and I think you probably meant to. I don't think
you did anything by accident. But find that common ground.
Find that common ground, And I thought that was so
important right now in this country, but not just in
(15:01):
interviewing somebody, but in your family. If you're going to
have a new brother in law, or a new neighbor
or a new boss, the faster you can find that
common ground, the better it's going to be.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah, there's plenty to be divided, and as you said,
we see a lot of it today, but there's so
much more that unites us. It's a cliche, right, there's
that much more that unites us that that divides us.
And so the couple hours that we had together it
(15:34):
was all about coming together. And ultimately they can understand
that even with the worst of the worst, a criminal,
which could be a brother or a sister in law
and the uh and find that common ground, find that
humor find that connection and drive the conversation.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And Joe, I got to tell you, you are so
dynamic from the hip. It almost seems like you have
not prepared at all. Like, whatever the next slide is,
I'm ready, even if I've never seen it. You are
so funny. But you said something that was so succinct
(16:12):
and so not elementary. But you know how like that,
you know, the shortest place between two points is you know,
a straight line? Of course it is, but I would
have never said that, right. But when you said hope
is not a plan, I wrote it down because I
(16:35):
thought that's something people also need to hear that, whether
again it's your marriage, it's your health plan, however you're
taking care of yourself or not taking care of yourself,
your education, your work. Hope is not a plan. Well
I hope, Walt don't leave me, girl, you better do something.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Well, yeah, that's really what it's all about, you know,
And even the you try to separate yourself from.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Like you know, I would say from my former life.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
I've been out now thirteen years, and you never seem
to be able to get out of that. And planning
is an important stage and decision making and being able
to make the decision. Like I tell my students all
the time, you need to learn to make decisions. You know,
our roads are full of squirrels that can't make decisions.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So you have to. You have to get involved.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
You have to you have to do things, and you
got to plan them out because if you keep on saying, well,
I hope this works out, or I hope I get
the job, or I hope I do this, or I
hope I do that, well, now you got to make
it happen.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You got to make it happen.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
And Scott, you know, you were so open with your
family and sharing all that. I think you had that
room turned upside down immediately because they no longer saw
you as you know, this supervisory FBI special agent of
all LA Delaware. They saw Scott. And I thought that
(17:58):
also was a gift you gave them because you know,
some of them walked in that room, especially some of
the college students, not intimidated, but certainly they didn't want
to speak, you know, and you change that. And I
just appreciate the way you did that.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, and I appreciate that, but that's it's also watching.
I'd like to think I'm a student of just watching people,
I'd like to see who's doing what, why they're doing
what they're doing, and then try to mimic if it's
good and move away if it's bad. And so I'd
like to create that same atmosphere in the classroom where
(18:37):
it is all about human connection. My family's you're a family,
and let's be a family for the time that we're together.
It's just that's the way I tried to create my
interviews in that same format, and definitely in the classroom.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Well it worked, honey, ain't no doubt. And you know,
Joe I started to just get knocked out because again,
and you let that whole group know, Hey, when you
put this system together and you expect cops to enter
all this information and be on this computer and put
it all in correctly, they're not going to use something complicated.
(19:15):
They're not.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yeah. I always say, like, you'll keep it simple, right,
keep it simple, stupid, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
That's in policing.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
I mean, listen, cops and detective specific they got lots
of cases going on, they have lots of things that
are happening. You're getting pulled, you know, left, right and center.
If you make something too complicated so whether it was
you know, the Nibrus system, which is the FBI's new
crime reporting system, or if you're adding you know, all.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
These different aspects that the name is, or even fight CAP.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
I mean when I was doing Vitcap, it was like
eight or nine pages long by the time I retired.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
The time I retired, it's like a twenty page booklet.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Now, I mean, I understand you want, you know, more
information is great, but you got to you gotta keep
things simple sometimes because they just don't have the time
to sit there and work on something for hours on
and to try to get it out there.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
And you know, two things happened, you know, Scott, in
your class. The first time Chester came in the baby Kangaroo,
you lost complete control of the classroom. I mean, those
folks could not get to that baby quick enough to
take selfies into pet own him and love own him.
(20:26):
And you know the old thing in Hollywood where they
say don't work with children, don't work with animals. We
didn't listen to that at all.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And you were you were very good, Cheryl, like keeping
that a secret even from me. And then when you
come into the towards the end of the class and
you're like, hey, we got to surprise them, and I'm
looking at you, look okay, Cheryl. And then all of
a sudden, when I just see Chester poking around and like,
get in here, right, class, right officially over, let's in
(21:00):
the fun. It's amazing what Chester specifically was able to create.
Everybody jumped out of their seats and wanted a selfie
and just to be with him.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, I mean, because when in your life have you
ever just oh, there's a little baby kangaroo that I
can hold and pet and love on. I mean, it
was insane. And then Joe Chewy, y'all, Sergeant Joe Jack
alone with the NYPD is front and center in this room,
and behind him is a tree. And in the tree
is one of those baskets that has like moss in
(21:32):
it that you would see at home depot in the
garden section. There's a sloth there, Chewy. But you know,
Chewy's only awake one hour a day. Something about Joe's voice,
I don't know. As he's talking, he's facing the audience.
Here it comes Chewy and we're all watching. He's climbing, climbing, climbing,
(21:53):
and all of a sudden, hanging right over Joe. It
is the cutest thing I've ever seen in my life.
And Joe, you know, you know how he is. He
turns around, He's like, hey, how are you forget about it?
You know, he's just keeping right.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah, chew, he stole the show. But you know what,
the like to say, the show must go on, we
need to get out there. But yeah, no, uh, you know,
it's it's just something that you I guess you learn
from all the distractions. I mean, you know this show, right,
you could you could be at a scene that everything's
chaotic and you're just you're listening to only one person,
or you can.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Hear your radio go off even though everyone's yelling.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
And screaming at you. So you kind of you you
learn how to do that kind of stuff and you
just kind of shut out those things. But yeah, chewy, chewy.
I guess it was the fact that they speak to
King's County English out of Brooklyn. So I just think
that's probably a little boy like you probably say, whoa
who is that guy talking?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
That's so cute. But y'all, this was a living classroom.
I mean we were inside outside everything just came together
and these endangered animals, being able to be with them
up close. I think that was a part that if
you came there not really sure how you felt about poaching,
(23:11):
you knew before you left. I promise you. You know,
when y'all say they rolled out the red carpet, we
not only had animal encounters and lunch, we had a safari, y'all.
And I mean there's one picture of Scott and one
picture of Joe that may have to be framed on
(23:32):
my desk. I mean, you just look up and you
know you're feeding a bison and then a lama, and
all of these animals they were all just pristine. I mean,
I don't even know how to qualify what I was
looking at because there was so much to take in.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
They were not animatronics. You would think they were being
cued with some sort of electronic device chipped into their
into their ears the way they responded, and and I'm like, wow,
I just animals that I have not seen in person.
And then to be able to be that close where
(24:12):
they're eating out of your hand.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
There was a couple of animals there that I never
saw in person, like the Texas longhorn, the steer. I
never saw you know I've seen it on TV or
whatever's that, but I've never seen one in person.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I mean that thing was huge.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Huge, And then you know the one elk that came
right up to the Safari jeep and was, you know,
knocking its antlers. I mean, he was the boss. And
then you had the attic. Most people had never seen
one in person. The golden bison, I mean that creature
was incredible. The lions and the tiger, the I mean,
(24:51):
y'all again, a black panther. That animal was stunning. And
knew it.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah, when he would when he would go by you,
I felt like there was a train in the distance.
I was trying to figure out what is that rumbling
and it was just his his strong purr. It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Well, we do have to talk about one thing. How
about that little monkey that stems.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
You got to bring up the monkey with Scott. He
was the only one to say. Scott could get him
to talk. Nobody else can get him the talk.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Y'all. There's a sign and it literally says, please keep
your hands away because he will steal your phone or
your bracelet or your ring. And uh, that just cracked
me up. But yeah, every time Scott Duff. You walk by, honey,
he sounded like a police siren.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
So the two in there right, and and there was
one that just came right up to and just staring
at me. I'm like, okay, I'm sure it's not nothing.
It's just I'm just sitting here. I'm just standing here
doing my thing. And uh, sure enough. It would start
with a little bit of a church chrip and then
this amazing I don't know what you call it. Is
it a how is it a scream?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
It's a siren.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yes, that's exactly how it sounded. Joe tell us about
the wine and chrome.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, the winding and cramb.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
So this was we, you know, had two nights of it,
and you know, I do the presentation for the cold
cases and talking to the groups. But I'll tell you
that both groups pretty big, which is especially the second
night was a really big crowd. But you know, I always, yeah,
I'm always amazed about the input that you get from
the audience themselves, the questions that they ask and and
(26:36):
and some people are really into it in regards to
some of these active cases that are going out there
and they follow them and they you know, they try
to pick your brain, so to speak about, you know,
what they can do. And I kind of tailor the
presentation towards that because so many people want to get
started in this and don't know where to go, or
they're just interested in it. And I'm always impressed by,
(26:58):
you know, the knowledge that people have of coming into
these things. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
I thought you did a masterful job telling people where
they could go if they wanted to help. That was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Yeah, it's It's something that a lot of people can
get involved in it, you know. I try to give them,
I call them like active responses and passive responses, right,
they could do things and really get involved, though they
can do things in the research level, you know, being
a little passive and try to get help for the
families and do those things. And I always try to
include a little bit of advocacy and make sure that
(27:31):
they're not stomping on family members or victims and everything
else that goes along.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
And it's not about likes and clicks.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
It's about getting the information out there and hopefully it
jogs somebody's memory or it gets somebody else involved who
can make a bigger production and get things you know
out there in regards to try to help these family
members out.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And that's another thing I want to just say to
everybody to make sure that they completely understand. We had
two classes in the morning that Scott taught, and then
two evening sessions that were the Wining Crimes. Scott Duffy
came to both Wining Crimes after he had taught and
been on Safari all day. Joe had to teach class
(28:15):
and then got to Scott's class as quick as he could,
then went on Safari and then did the Wining Crime
all night. And then we had some other special guests.
Lisa Robakoff was there, Jan Boone, Nicole and Maria from
Mother Knows Death. I mean, we had some incredible folks
that came and supported and you know, did all they
(28:37):
could to make this a reality on top of the
Tobias family. So I just want to say again to
both of you, you know, your friendship and your generosity
and your brilliance of teaching. That is the only reason
this thing happened. It's one thing to have an idea,
but it's one thing to have people say yes and
(29:00):
you know, leave their family and come and take a chance.
When some girl from Georgia tells you there's a zoo
in Pennsylvania, and y'all just go, okay, we're coming.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
Well, that's what friends are four, right, So it's it's,
you know, one of those things where somebody asks you
and do you do it right? And you I enjoyed
doing it too, So it's if that makes it, you know, simple,
of course. And and like I said, we've all known
each other for years now, so it makes things even
easier to try to do that. And you know, I
guess that the law enforcement angle where we all did
(29:35):
the same sort of job, we all chewse the same dirt,
so to speak. And I think that also provides that
little camaraderie that you just can't explain to other people.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Yeah, I think first and foremost they were long sketch
a long days, right, And we're there early in the
morning and were there late in the evening, and I
was not tired. There was just so much energy from
every aspect. And then go into the winding crime twice
(30:09):
and to and and Joe even said, Okay, Scott, you
know you're gonna hear me again. I'm like Joe, I
could listen to you all day but to be able
to pivot, to be able to change up.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Just enough.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
It's there's always something coming out that I'm learning, and
so I'm back there and jotting things down and it's, uh,
of course, you know, you have a nice glass of wine,
some food with it, and you have you have Chewy
and then you just it just felt like you were
with friends. It was an amazing experience.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
It just so thank you, right, it was like a bandshell. Right.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
They set up like it's like a bandshell, and you
have everybody sitting in front of you, and you're there,
and and you.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Got Chewy hanging above you.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
It's just it's just that intimacy part of it where
people could really get involved and get it has to
really talk to you, and you know, you're walking around
to people stop you and ask you questions and you
know that kind of you can't get that kind of
intimacy with any other kind of uh, you know, situation
that you're dealing with. So I think that's I think
(31:14):
that's what makes people like this kind of venue too.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Absolutely well, I appreciate it. I appreciate y'all making time tonight,
and hopefully we'll all be together again in Arizona because
we got something really interesting playing there too. But I
adore both of you. I appreciate both of you, and
to me, there was nothing better than experiencing that place
(31:40):
with those animals, with my friends.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Thank you very much. I cannot thank you enough. When
we were in that whatever, that restaurant bar, when all
this got hashed out, my fingers were crossed and I
was saying, please, please make this happen, and look at
what you have accomplished. So kudos, kudos, kudos.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Yeah, in a short period of time where you think
about it, from April to you know, October, you got
this all together and you're at a zoo.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
So I mean that was that was phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Well, y'all, wan't going to end Zone seven the way
that I always do with a quote. If we do
not do something to help these creatures, we make a
mockery of the whole concept of justice. Doctor Jane Goodall,
I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven.
Y'all. I don't even think y'all are ready for what
I am going to just throw at y'all tonight, because
we have got retired NYPD Sergeant Joe Jack Alone. Y'all
know him, y'all love him, the Sorge Honey, he is here,
and our friend Scott Duffy, FBI, retired Supervisory Senior Resident
(00:33):
Agent of Delaware is in the house. Gentlemen, welcome to
Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hey, Cheryl, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
You know what I am doing? Fantastic, Serge, But I
got to tell you I am not doing as good
as I was a few days ago when I was
with you in Scott Duffy at a zoo. Let me
tell y'all we had an opportunity to be at Lake
Tobias for the first Wildlife CSI Academy training inside of
a zoo and at Lake Tobias Wildlife part I mean, Scott,
(01:06):
I'm just going to start with you. You had the
very first class that first morning. Tell me what you
thought just of the venue.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Okay, so.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
You've allowed a couple hours for this, sherl because I
cannot stop talking about Lake Tobias. So first and foremost
being about probably two two and a half hours southeast
of Lake Tobias. I didn't know it was on the map,
(01:36):
and this treasure to be so close, and for that
to be my first visit, shame on me. But let
me just tell you arriving in the hills of Pennsylvania
and seeing this big, beautiful sign Lake Tobias. You got
all different types of entrances. I'm figuring out which entrance
(01:57):
and then i just have kangaroos running towards my car,
only stopped by a fence, and I'm like, wow, where
am I?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yes, yes, it's an unbelievable place. And then you know,
we get into the classroom and we've got some incredible
people that have come and your topic is interviewing, and
we even had doctor Pria there. And for those of
y'all that know doctor Pria Energy, you know she went
(02:27):
to the Johns Hopkins. I mean, she's not an idiot. Okay,
she's had some training, she's had some education. She's never
had anything like training with Scott Duffy. She can't stop
talking about that and how important it was for her
to learn some of those techniques.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, thank you. I'm very humbled by it and the
people that have been there, the showing up into the classroom,
from doctor pria to to nurses to police officers. I'm
just at the top of my head, I'm rattlingitols, social workers,
probation officers, both federal and state students, students from area colleges,
(03:12):
just all different walks of life, every different profession And
that's a little nerve wracking to a teacher to see
and to be in front of. Okay, this is not
your typical student. These are professionals who definitely know a
(03:32):
thing or two about interviewing, and so just to be
in the room with them, it was an amazing experience.
But wow, alls, I can say as well.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Just wow. And you know, Joe, I thought, you know,
for this Wine and Crime, I'm gonna let the sarge
do his thing. He's going to keep him so captivated
because they broke the mole with you, honey. But little
did I know that something was going to steal the
show from you.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, my buddy, uh the slough there.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
So I was like, that's my spirit animal, right, So yeah,
he did everything but fall into my lap or fall
into my head.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
As long as he didn't poop on me, I think
we would.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Have been all right, but it was it was a
great time. And yeah, being in that environment and that
in that that kind of theater and you got the
animals around you. You're surrounded by snakes and alligators and
everything else that goes along with it kind of adds
to the the whole atmosphere. Like I said, the only
thing that was that iog was higher on is is
(04:37):
climbing that mountain into the car trying to get up
there to lake device.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
That was an interesting geez. That was it was. It
was like a vertical.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
But yeah, no, it was a lot of fun and
getting a chance to meet all the people there was
it was. It was really a good time, even though
I took a couple of cheap shots at the FBI, Right, Scout.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Joe, you always look at it first of all, not
only your.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
But you.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Having worked so close with every agency. You couldn't have
said it any better when the fact that we're all partners,
and I think NYPD is absolutely there is no better
than NYPD. I would say the FBI likes to emulate NYPD.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well, well, you know what it was like spelling A
lot of the stuff that people see on television is important.
I mean I always tell like I tell my students,
you know, television is entertainment, not education, and it's far
from reality. It's been distorted law enforcement work and everybody's
always fighting and everything else. People are stealing cases and
it's further that couldn't be further from the truth.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well, you know what I thought was so important. It
was ironic and somehow fitting to me that we got
to honor Jane Goodall in this. And you know, she
was one of those folks that believed, if you're really
going to fight poaching, you've got to do it at
several levels. Right, You've got to have a community based education,
(06:07):
you've got to strengthen your law enforcement, and you've got
to support these animal sanctuaries. Well we did that. Not
only did we have the absolutely ground level, street level,
I guess wildlife sanctuary level approach to you know, training
community and what needs to happen to fight this poaching problem,
(06:30):
but you know, we gave law enforcement not just training
but equipment, and then we supported financially the animal sanctuary.
So I was real proud of what we accomplished in
those two days, and it is absolutely in large part
because of Scott Duffy and Joe Jackaloane.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, remember too on World Animal Day too. So it
was a kind of coming together of all these working parts.
And the fact that you know Scott and I and you, Cheryl,
we know each other for a long time now, that
always helps with that. But I'll tell you the staff
at the Bias Wildlife Park were.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Unbelievable, unbelievable. I told several of them if I were Oprah,
they would have all gotten a car. I mean, they
were kind, they were not rushed, they were not irritated,
they stayed late, they maintained just an unbelievably gracious and
(07:32):
happy and giving, just personality. I don't think they could
have done any better.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
No, the backdrop of everything, how this all came to
be just the right people, the right timing, And then
of course everything that you have been thinking about, Cheryl,
whether it goes from the imagination, everybody has these grand
plans going to happen. I'm never going to be able
(08:01):
to accomplish it. What you've been able to do, to
take out of that mind of yours, and then to
be able to call upon a few friends, Hey, can
you be here at a certain time in a certain place,
because guess what we have linked to bias that it's
going to roll out the red carpet. Wow, everything soup,
the nuts, animals, the staff. I cannot think of all
(08:28):
the different classrooms I have been around the world with
the FBI, that does not compare to what you were
able to put together last week.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Well, I appreciate you saying it, but as you well know,
when this whole thing really began to take shape, you
were standing right there, and so was Joe, and you know, transparency.
There might have been some drinking involved, but here's what happened, y'all.
We are at the Hampton's Who Done It? Which Joe
puts off on the true crime side, and it is remarkable.
(09:04):
And so we go to a cocktail party and my
husband and I have this thing that if we're across
the room, if one of us is ready to go,
or we run into some crazy person or you know whatever,
or if it's something great, we have a signal so
we know to come together. We're either going to do
the Irish goodbye, or we're going to tell everybody goodbye,
or we're going to stay. So I'm across the room
(09:26):
and I do my check on him. He is waving
for me to come over like it is Christmas Eve.
So I go over and there's Jenna Tobias standing there
and Walt says, tell her, tell her what you told me,
and Jenna laughs and she said, okay, I just told
Walt that I grew up literally inside of a zoo.
(09:47):
And I was knocked out because part of what we
wanted with the Wildlife CSI Academy is we wanted a
zoo because we have TSA in Atlanta, we have a courthouse,
we have a farm, we have sworn animals. So this
was the piece of the puzzle that was missing. And
I said, Jenna, do you think that your family would
(10:12):
want to host a law enforcement training and a community
whining crime. She said, sure, absolutely that'll happen. And Scott,
you and your wife were standing right there, as well
as Nicole and some other folks, and then, of course
I will tell you all this part. On the way home.
Me and Walt started laughing, and I'm like, please, don't
be a crazy person, Please don't be a crazy person
(10:33):
telling me you grew up in the zoo and you didn't,
but nope, she grew up in a zoo. The house
is still right there in the middle of it. And
when you know, Scott and Joe have both said just
how wonderful that family is. They have not overstated it
for a moment. And I'm telling you, there's even some
things we couldn't control that were perfect. And that was
(10:55):
the weather, the food, the rooms, the animals, like every
single thing just fell into place so beautifully.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And the place was clean, you know, for a zoo
it was.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
It was very clean, I mean, and it was everybody
was friendly, the staff, I mean, people who didn't weren't
even partaking in what we were there for, were still over
accommodating it. And you know, it really is. It's such
a nice family and it's really it makes it even better.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, it's incredible. And you know that's something that me
and Charlene talked about my sister that if I had
been kidnapped and blindfolded, I wouldn't even know I was
in a zoo. A lot of times when you get
to a zoo, honey, you know it when you're in
the parking lot. But this zoo was not that way.
I mean, I can't describe these animals. It was almost
(11:49):
like a movie, you know, queue the zebra que the
baby camel, queue the you know, the baby giraffe. I
mean we got to feed giraffes, Scott, Wow, did we?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
It's amazing what you have in your mind when you're
thinking of an animal, especially a seventeen foot I believe
was the tallest.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And then you had.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Ali Oliver and it's amazing how they just it's like
you call out their name and they come running.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Don't forget Chester, oh ch Chester.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Let me tell you. Joe and I already had a plan.
He was going to be our drug kangaroo and we
were going to take him right on through TSA Honey
and let him go to work with us, because that
would have changed my entire life this coming monday, when
you know, back on duty, Scott. When you did your class,
(12:47):
one of the first things that you do is you
engage them immediately with something they're not comfortable doing. I
thought that was genius.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, so you know, and I like to teach as
if I'm the student and I know where the students,
so that you have the student of all different backgrounds
and they are there. They're nervous, some know each other,
some came in groups. But ultimately and it was a
very cozy classroom that I want to shake it up.
(13:20):
I want them to feel the pressure of the tension.
Just as if a police officer, detective, an agent is
going into an interview room, we don't have all the answers.
We're just as nervous. And so I want to try
to replicate that with the student. And so I do this.
I just throw out a three x five card. I
put a word on that everybody is familiar with, and
(13:44):
they're looking at the card wondering what to do. I'm
not going to give them an instruction and I'm not
going to give them time to back out. And then
I set the clock thirty seconds, get up, talk about it.
Tell me, without just dead air, what does that word mean?
And it's amazing how everybody did.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Oh, it was amazing from I don't know. I don't
know what to say. I don't know, I have no idea,
I don't know what to say. I can't do this too,
I mean almost like Webster's dictionary. It was one of
the greatest things I've ever seen, and it brought the
group together pretty quick.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
It does it's an amazing icebreaker. It does everything. It
gives them an understanding. Hey, this is not just going
to be a textbook classroom. We're going to be talking,
engaging with one another, and we're going to learn and
be ready for the next one.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
One of the most powerful things you did is immediately
let everybody know and keep whether you meant to or not,
and I think you probably meant to. I don't think
you did anything by accident. But find that common ground.
Find that common ground, And I thought that was so
important right now in this country, but not just in
(15:01):
interviewing somebody, but in your family. If you're going to
have a new brother in law, or a new neighbor
or a new boss, the faster you can find that
common ground, the better it's going to be.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah, there's plenty to be divided, and as you said,
we see a lot of it today, but there's so
much more that unites us. It's a cliche, right, there's
that much more that unites us that that divides us.
And so the couple hours that we had together it
(15:34):
was all about coming together. And ultimately they can understand
that even with the worst of the worst, a criminal,
which could be a brother or a sister in law
and the uh and find that common ground, find that
humor find that connection and drive the conversation.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And Joe, I got to tell you, you are so
dynamic from the hip. It almost seems like you have
not prepared at all. Like, whatever the next slide is,
I'm ready, even if I've never seen it. You are
so funny. But you said something that was so succinct
(16:12):
and so not elementary. But you know how like that,
you know, the shortest place between two points is you know,
a straight line? Of course it is, but I would
have never said that, right. But when you said hope
is not a plan, I wrote it down because I
(16:35):
thought that's something people also need to hear that, whether
again it's your marriage, it's your health plan, however you're
taking care of yourself or not taking care of yourself,
your education, your work. Hope is not a plan. Well
I hope, Walt don't leave me, girl, you better do something.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Well, yeah, that's really what it's all about, you know,
And even the you try to separate yourself from.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Like you know, I would say from my former life.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
I've been out now thirteen years, and you never seem
to be able to get out of that. And planning
is an important stage and decision making and being able
to make the decision. Like I tell my students all
the time, you need to learn to make decisions. You know,
our roads are full of squirrels that can't make decisions.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So you have to. You have to get involved.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
You have to you have to do things, and you
got to plan them out because if you keep on saying, well,
I hope this works out, or I hope I get
the job, or I hope I do this, or I
hope I do that, well, now you got to make
it happen.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You got to make it happen.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
And Scott, you know, you were so open with your
family and sharing all that. I think you had that
room turned upside down immediately because they no longer saw
you as you know, this supervisory FBI special agent of
all LA Delaware. They saw Scott. And I thought that
(17:58):
also was a gift you gave them because you know,
some of them walked in that room, especially some of
the college students, not intimidated, but certainly they didn't want
to speak, you know, and you change that. And I
just appreciate the way you did that.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, and I appreciate that, but that's it's also watching.
I'd like to think I'm a student of just watching people,
I'd like to see who's doing what, why they're doing
what they're doing, and then try to mimic if it's
good and move away if it's bad. And so I'd
like to create that same atmosphere in the classroom where
(18:37):
it is all about human connection. My family's you're a family,
and let's be a family for the time that we're together.
It's just that's the way I tried to create my
interviews in that same format, and definitely in the classroom.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Well it worked, honey, ain't no doubt. And you know,
Joe I started to just get knocked out because again,
and you let that whole group know, Hey, when you
put this system together and you expect cops to enter
all this information and be on this computer and put
it all in correctly, they're not going to use something complicated.
(19:15):
They're not.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yeah. I always say, like, you'll keep it simple, right,
keep it simple, stupid, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
That's in policing.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
I mean, listen, cops and detective specific they got lots
of cases going on, they have lots of things that
are happening. You're getting pulled, you know, left, right and center.
If you make something too complicated so whether it was
you know, the Nibrus system, which is the FBI's new
crime reporting system, or if you're adding you know, all.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
These different aspects that the name is, or even fight CAP.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
I mean when I was doing Vitcap, it was like
eight or nine pages long by the time I retired.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
The time I retired, it's like a twenty page booklet.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Now, I mean, I understand you want, you know, more
information is great, but you got to you gotta keep
things simple sometimes because they just don't have the time
to sit there and work on something for hours on
and to try to get it out there.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
And you know, two things happened, you know, Scott, in
your class. The first time Chester came in the baby Kangaroo,
you lost complete control of the classroom. I mean, those
folks could not get to that baby quick enough to
take selfies into pet own him and love own him.
(20:26):
And you know the old thing in Hollywood where they
say don't work with children, don't work with animals. We
didn't listen to that at all.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And you were you were very good, Cheryl, like keeping
that a secret even from me. And then when you
come into the towards the end of the class and
you're like, hey, we got to surprise them, and I'm
looking at you, look okay, Cheryl. And then all of
a sudden, when I just see Chester poking around and like,
get in here, right, class, right officially over, let's in
(21:00):
the fun. It's amazing what Chester specifically was able to create.
Everybody jumped out of their seats and wanted a selfie
and just to be with him.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, I mean, because when in your life have you
ever just oh, there's a little baby kangaroo that I
can hold and pet and love on. I mean, it
was insane. And then Joe Chewy, y'all, Sergeant Joe Jack
alone with the NYPD is front and center in this room,
and behind him is a tree. And in the tree
is one of those baskets that has like moss in
(21:32):
it that you would see at home depot in the
garden section. There's a sloth there, Chewy. But you know,
Chewy's only awake one hour a day. Something about Joe's voice,
I don't know. As he's talking, he's facing the audience.
Here it comes Chewy and we're all watching. He's climbing, climbing, climbing,
(21:53):
and all of a sudden, hanging right over Joe. It
is the cutest thing I've ever seen in my life.
And Joe, you know, you know how he is. He
turns around, He's like, hey, how are you forget about it?
You know, he's just keeping right.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah, chew, he stole the show. But you know what,
the like to say, the show must go on, we
need to get out there. But yeah, no, uh, you know,
it's it's just something that you I guess you learn
from all the distractions. I mean, you know this show, right,
you could you could be at a scene that everything's
chaotic and you're just you're listening to only one person,
or you can.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Hear your radio go off even though everyone's yelling.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
And screaming at you. So you kind of you you
learn how to do that kind of stuff and you
just kind of shut out those things. But yeah, chewy, chewy.
I guess it was the fact that they speak to
King's County English out of Brooklyn. So I just think
that's probably a little boy like you probably say, whoa
who is that guy talking?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
That's so cute. But y'all, this was a living classroom.
I mean we were inside outside everything just came together
and these endangered animals, being able to be with them
up close. I think that was a part that if
you came there not really sure how you felt about poaching,
(23:11):
you knew before you left. I promise you. You know,
when y'all say they rolled out the red carpet, we
not only had animal encounters and lunch, we had a safari, y'all.
And I mean there's one picture of Scott and one
picture of Joe that may have to be framed on
(23:32):
my desk. I mean, you just look up and you
know you're feeding a bison and then a lama, and
all of these animals they were all just pristine. I mean,
I don't even know how to qualify what I was
looking at because there was so much to take in.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
They were not animatronics. You would think they were being
cued with some sort of electronic device chipped into their
into their ears the way they responded, and and I'm like, wow,
I just animals that I have not seen in person.
And then to be able to be that close where
(24:12):
they're eating out of your hand.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
There was a couple of animals there that I never
saw in person, like the Texas longhorn, the steer. I
never saw you know I've seen it on TV or
whatever's that, but I've never seen one in person.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I mean that thing was huge.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Huge, And then you know the one elk that came
right up to the Safari jeep and was, you know,
knocking its antlers. I mean, he was the boss. And
then you had the attic. Most people had never seen
one in person. The golden bison, I mean that creature
was incredible. The lions and the tiger, the I mean,
(24:51):
y'all again, a black panther. That animal was stunning. And
knew it.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah, when he would when he would go by you,
I felt like there was a train in the distance.
I was trying to figure out what is that rumbling
and it was just his his strong purr. It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Well, we do have to talk about one thing. How
about that little monkey that stems.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
You got to bring up the monkey with Scott. He
was the only one to say. Scott could get him
to talk. Nobody else can get him the talk.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Y'all. There's a sign and it literally says, please keep
your hands away because he will steal your phone or
your bracelet or your ring. And uh, that just cracked
me up. But yeah, every time Scott Duff. You walk by, honey,
he sounded like a police siren.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
So the two in there right, and and there was
one that just came right up to and just staring
at me. I'm like, okay, I'm sure it's not nothing.
It's just I'm just sitting here. I'm just standing here
doing my thing. And uh, sure enough. It would start
with a little bit of a church chrip and then
this amazing I don't know what you call it. Is
it a how is it a scream?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
It's a siren.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yes, that's exactly how it sounded. Joe tell us about
the wine and chrome.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, the winding and cramb.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
So this was we, you know, had two nights of it,
and you know, I do the presentation for the cold
cases and talking to the groups. But I'll tell you
that both groups pretty big, which is especially the second
night was a really big crowd. But you know, I always, yeah,
I'm always amazed about the input that you get from
the audience themselves, the questions that they ask and and
(26:36):
and some people are really into it in regards to
some of these active cases that are going out there
and they follow them and they you know, they try
to pick your brain, so to speak about, you know,
what they can do. And I kind of tailor the
presentation towards that because so many people want to get
started in this and don't know where to go, or
they're just interested in it. And I'm always impressed by,
(26:58):
you know, the knowledge that people have of coming into
these things. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
I thought you did a masterful job telling people where
they could go if they wanted to help. That was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Yeah, it's It's something that a lot of people can
get involved in it, you know. I try to give them,
I call them like active responses and passive responses, right,
they could do things and really get involved, though they
can do things in the research level, you know, being
a little passive and try to get help for the
families and do those things. And I always try to
include a little bit of advocacy and make sure that
(27:31):
they're not stomping on family members or victims and everything
else that goes along.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
And it's not about likes and clicks.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
It's about getting the information out there and hopefully it
jogs somebody's memory or it gets somebody else involved who
can make a bigger production and get things you know
out there in regards to try to help these family
members out.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And that's another thing I want to just say to
everybody to make sure that they completely understand. We had
two classes in the morning that Scott taught, and then
two evening sessions that were the Wining Crimes. Scott Duffy
came to both Wining Crimes after he had taught and
been on Safari all day. Joe had to teach class
(28:15):
and then got to Scott's class as quick as he could,
then went on Safari and then did the Wining Crime
all night. And then we had some other special guests.
Lisa Robakoff was there, Jan Boone, Nicole and Maria from
Mother Knows Death. I mean, we had some incredible folks
that came and supported and you know, did all they
(28:37):
could to make this a reality on top of the
Tobias family. So I just want to say again to
both of you, you know, your friendship and your generosity
and your brilliance of teaching. That is the only reason
this thing happened. It's one thing to have an idea,
but it's one thing to have people say yes and
(29:00):
you know, leave their family and come and take a chance.
When some girl from Georgia tells you there's a zoo
in Pennsylvania, and y'all just go, okay, we're coming.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
Well, that's what friends are four, right, So it's it's,
you know, one of those things where somebody asks you
and do you do it right? And you I enjoyed
doing it too, So it's if that makes it, you know, simple,
of course. And and like I said, we've all known
each other for years now, so it makes things even
easier to try to do that. And you know, I
guess that the law enforcement angle where we all did
(29:35):
the same sort of job, we all chewse the same dirt,
so to speak. And I think that also provides that
little camaraderie that you just can't explain to other people.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Yeah, I think first and foremost they were long sketch
a long days, right, And we're there early in the
morning and were there late in the evening, and I
was not tired. There was just so much energy from
every aspect. And then go into the winding crime twice
(30:09):
and to and and Joe even said, Okay, Scott, you
know you're gonna hear me again. I'm like Joe, I
could listen to you all day but to be able
to pivot, to be able to change up.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Just enough.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
It's there's always something coming out that I'm learning, and
so I'm back there and jotting things down and it's, uh,
of course, you know, you have a nice glass of wine,
some food with it, and you have you have Chewy
and then you just it just felt like you were
with friends. It was an amazing experience.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
It just so thank you, right, it was like a bandshell. Right.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
They set up like it's like a bandshell, and you
have everybody sitting in front of you, and you're there,
and and you.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Got Chewy hanging above you.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
It's just it's just that intimacy part of it where
people could really get involved and get it has to
really talk to you, and you know, you're walking around
to people stop you and ask you questions and you
know that kind of you can't get that kind of
intimacy with any other kind of uh, you know, situation
that you're dealing with. So I think that's I think
(31:14):
that's what makes people like this kind of venue too.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Absolutely well, I appreciate it. I appreciate y'all making time tonight,
and hopefully we'll all be together again in Arizona because
we got something really interesting playing there too. But I
adore both of you. I appreciate both of you, and
to me, there was nothing better than experiencing that place
(31:40):
with those animals, with my friends.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Thank you very much. I cannot thank you enough. When
we were in that whatever, that restaurant bar, when all
this got hashed out, my fingers were crossed and I
was saying, please, please make this happen, and look at
what you have accomplished. So kudos, kudos, kudos.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Yeah, in a short period of time where you think
about it, from April to you know, October, you got
this all together and you're at a zoo.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
So I mean that was that was phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Well, y'all, wan't going to end Zone seven the way
that I always do with a quote. If we do
not do something to help these creatures, we make a
mockery of the whole concept of justice. Doctor Jane Goodall,
I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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