17: Is Your Situation Toxic AF?? Here’s How to Tell (And What to Do)! | Love + Relationships - Zuri Hall's Hot Happy Mess

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Black Effect Podcast Network is proud to present the
Happy Gems virtual event It's All Going Down Thursday, July
twenty two, to help raise awareness for BIPOC Mental Health
Awareness Month, hosted by deVie Brown from the podcast Dropping
Gems and meet Zuri Hall from the podcast Hot Happy Mess,
Happy Gems. It's all about giving you the tools you
need to create balance and manifest happiness. Get your tickets

(00:23):
today to this unique, once in a lifetime experience at
moment house dot com. Backslash Black Effect m Hot Happy Mess.
Celebrate your magic in the middle of life's messes. Hot Happy.

(00:47):
I'm Zeri Hall and this is hot Happy Mess. What
is up? I am Zuri Hall and this is Hot
Happy Oh my god, my phone? Why I'm not even
doing that again? But do you see, guys, I was
supposed to say, this is not happy Mass, where we

(01:09):
celebrate our magic in the middle of life's messes and
iphoned ings and make the most of the moments we're in. Well,
that is absolutely fitting. It's quite on brand for my life.
So now that I've turned off my notifications ten seconds
into this recording, um, what's up? How we feel and
how we doing? We're trucking along. We're easing into April

(01:31):
pretty soon here. I am very excited about some cool
stuff that's coming up. I can't wait to share with
you all on the personal front, Stay tuned, Stay tuned
to make sure you're following me on Instagram at Zurie
Hall shameless plug, because I've got some stuff I want
to tell you guys first. Honestly, I might tell y'all
here on the podcast. I'm not happy Bess before I

(01:53):
tell anyone else. That's just how close to you I feel. UM,
stay tuned for that. But enough about basically nothing, because
I didn't really reveal anything. UM, let's dive into this
week's episode. UM. This one is an important conversation. It's
a delicate conversation, and I am so grateful for the

(02:14):
two women who you are about to hear from, for
sharing their experiences, their expertise, UM, and their perspective when
it comes to toxic relationships. I think most of us
have been there. I certainly have, and you'll hear a
little bit about some of my experience in a toxic
dynamic at one point in my past. And we also

(02:37):
have a real woman, real story from an old friend
of mine. Named Rica. We go way back to my
Indianapolis days. You'll hear her UM talk about how she
has this amazing, hard working, very ambitious and just together woman. UM.
One of the first people that I met when I
moved to Indianapolis, UM radio DJ, who's just about her

(02:59):
business and fell into you know, the trap, for lack
of a better phrase, of a very toxic individual, a
toxic man in her life. UM. And thankfully she was
able to remove herself from that situation. But she shares
how it happened, why she fell for it, and also
once she realized that it was time to go, and

(03:19):
how things ended. We also have a fan favorite coming
back to the podcast. Dr Jen Hardy is here again
to share some some tips, some warning signs, how to
know if you're in a toxic relationship, how to know
if you're the toxic one. I'm looking at you, if
you felt some type of way. UM. But in all seriousness,

(03:43):
she's gonna break that down for us, So let's just
go ahead and dive right into our real woman's story first.
Rica Robinson is called to guide women who need to
hear that singleness is not a punishment and you are
worthy regardless of your relationship status and amen, I will
co sign that any day and every day. Rica is
a certified NLP Life Coach, a k this single girl's

(04:05):
life coach who helps their clients dig deeper when it
comes to self love and boundaries. She's also the founder
of Single You Academy and the host of Single You
the podcast. Here is a Real Woman, Real Story, Here's Rica. Okay. So,
first of all, Rica, people do not know necessarily that
we go way, way way back. We've been catching up

(04:26):
for the last ten minutes, fifteen minutes or so. Um
tell everybody, I'll let you take the lead on our
indie connection the olden Dave right like. So we go
back like babies and fascifiers now, at least for the
the industry, I guess is concerned. Um. So I was

(04:46):
doing radio and this is what I remember, and please
correct me if I'm wrong, or I'm gonna just say
your word for it, because I don't remember nothing about nothing,
nothing nothing. I know who I knew and who I
liked and what generally what I it. But girl, I
don't remember what I ate for dinner last night, which
is so weird. It's like, did my life start yesterday?
Or sty seven years ago. I don't know so, but um,

(05:10):
so yeah, I was doing I was already doing radio
at the radio station in Indianapolis. Shout out to all
my peeps, uh in Indianapolis, what a good time. Um.
And I had already been there from maybe three years,
two to three years, and then UM pops up this
girl named Zuri and I remember being asked because they
were doing, um, the the the contest, like the search right,

(05:37):
the next phase of Mint two. That's what it is
mynt TV. And I was asked to be a judge
and I was like, sure, okay, why not? Um and yeah,
that's basically how I met you. But from that we
formed a friendship because we were like, Okay, you're cool,
I'm cool, let's be friends. I picked a gay um,
but yeah, obviously I got to vote for you. I
got to um and for context you guys, Reco was

(05:59):
on the radio Indianapolis, So she was morning show, right, Um,
I was a midday I was mid days. Yea where
I am now? Um, I just stepped down from doing mornings.
But yeah, man, I've been in radio since Howard University
for freaking twenty years, which I'm like, I'm seventeen. So
how just right exactly last week? Yeah, yeah, so that's

(06:22):
how I knew. That's how I knew you obviously, that's
how we met. And like I said, we formed a friendship.
And um, I know you were doing your thing and Indy,
I felt like I was doing mine as well, and
we were just kind of like these two girls in
Indy that were influencers on I remembers before these kids Graham. Yeah, yeah,

(06:43):
exactly before um. And so yeah, that's how and then
we just kind of kept in touch. We're definitely friends,
um on Facebook. So I've been able to watch your
star rise and I've just been sitting back, like I
know her. I'm so proud of her sometimes, like when
I watch if I see you on TV and if
I'm drinking something out cheers like come back you. Yeah,

(07:07):
you know, because it's like I see who and I
see what God is doing for you, and I'm like that, yep.
And if God can do it for her, he can
do it for me as well. So they're definitely an inspiration. Um.
And you know, I haven't been the best, we haven't
been the best at like keeping in touch on the
day to day, but I feel like if I ran
into anywhere in l A wherever. Even now, obviously you're like, yeah,
I know her, Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. And that's

(07:29):
why I'm so excited and grateful that you're sharing your
time and your energy and your experiences with my hot
happy mess gang. Is. I was like, you know, like Rica,
I've I've watched you also still from Afar. You know,
we we have the Facebook updates and whatnot. And seeing
your evolution, um, from all the amazing work that you
were doing as a radio host into really I feel

(07:50):
and this is I would love for you to expand
on this, but stepping into your purpose really um, empowering women,
um to just sort of one own their singleness, a
thing that we've been taught to rebuke by you know,
any and every means necessary, but it's it's a punishment
quote unquote. When you have really dedicated yourself to helping

(08:12):
women realize that singleness is not a punishment and that
we are worthy regardless of our relationships status. So I
would love if you could just kind of like break
it down for our listeners. UM, when it comes to
toxic relationships and abusive relationships, UM, you have survived that
you have experienced that. So can you just explain to

(08:34):
us kind of, um, where that journey for you began
and you know, kind of how you met the guy.
What break it down for us? I'm like, girl, how
much time do we have? I wish we have more?
But right right, it's there's so much to the story.
And I want to say to anybody who's listening, I
am going to be speaking from my lens obviously. UM.

(08:56):
I'm not an expert in anything except for my life.
And if it resonates for you, you know, I feel
like I'm called right now to, like you said, UM,
speak to women who need to hear that singleness is
not a punishment. And so if this resonates with you,
that means, UM that yeah, I'm speaking to you, UM.
And so I will say this, UM. I met this
guy in man Um. He was playing for an arena

(09:21):
football team up here in Washington State, Go Hawks by
the way, And UM, I just got swept up with
his charm. And there were a lot of things in
that relationship that happened that I didn't know was abusive, because,
for one thing, nobody ever really talked to me about
what makes a healthy relationship versus an unhealthy relationship. I mean,

(09:44):
can you say that, Zory, Like, did anybody sit you down?
I was like growing healthy, not at all. I still
sometimes get up it and I'll joke with my mom
or dad like y'all already should have sat me said,
y'all really should have sat me down and been like,
think about this, don't think about that. This is a
no go, like even in the two official sense. Um,
we're not taught to to approach our dating lives and

(10:05):
romantic lives with intention, and so you have to get
burned so many times where you realize maybe I should
be strategic about this the way I am about my
career or about the other things in my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My parents and I have good parents, and this is
not to throw them under the bus. And I know
yours are amazing, and um, I feel like I've met

(10:26):
them a few times. But they're they're still married like
my parents are and well girl mind divorced now, but
they still has My dad still drops my mom off
at the airport because she's afraid of getting onto the freeway.
So we still do all of our family gathering stuff together.
So it's very much an what is it? Uh? What
going to do? I don't know. But your parents are

(10:51):
still married. They're still married? About them? I love? Yeah,
yeah that look that just let y'all know, Zerri and
I have a lot of catching up to do. But yeah,
so so my parents are still married or whatever. But yeah,
their baby boomers. My dad just turned sixty nine on
February the six team, and um, there was no way.
He was like, girl, this is what you need to
watch out for. Because I also don't think that they

(11:11):
knew because it's not like the generation before them was
having these serious conversations. If you grow up in a
Christian household, it's more like, girl, you just wait till
you married. That's it. This is what my dad told me.
My dad and I must have been like maybe ten,
twelve whatever, but he was like, okay, so you keep
your draws up and you're dressed down. What does that mean, dad?

(11:41):
What does that mean? So anyway, so I'm in this relationship.
And then another thing that they do tell you, and
what maybe you do learn from TVs and movies that
if he hits you, that's abusive. But but but, but
they don't really expound on other things that our that
are abusive, like what is narcissism? Gas lighting? Um, all

(12:01):
of that, right, you can be emotionally abused, physically abused,
financially abused, all of that. And so looking back, obviously,
now that I know that I've gone on my journey
and reading, I know that that I I literally was
being gas lit. I was dating a narcissism from what
I have diagnosed him as. I don't know where he
is today. I pray for him, but definitely some narcissistic

(12:23):
characteristics were going on. And I'll give you an example. Um,
I remember, So go ahead, So I want to do Um,
I want to get into sort of that narcissistic behavior
before that even you mentioned that he was charming and
that you got kind of swept up in that. So
for a lot of the ladies listening, they may be
in a similar situation. I have certainly been there before.
What did it feel like in the beginning before the

(12:45):
cracks started to show? Yeah, well, so he was fine, um,
and he he was funny, I'm very charming, and he
said everything right, everything right, um, and and wanted to
to to be there. And I remember him even telling
me he loved me, like two weeks in two and girl, yes, yes,

(13:08):
because but see even then though, my red flag, you know,
my gut feeling was like that's weird, and so I
remember telling him, oh, we don't have to say it yet. Um,
you know, I'm sure that will come, and he got upset,
like his quick to anger clicked. But then I felt
bad because I was like, oh, how cute. He really

(13:31):
likes me, because so let me just because energy yep,
but I ignored that red flag, which I now call
my god voice to tell me up. So I may right,
so I may write something ay, right, But I think
that when we as women, at least for me, I
didn't have proof that he was a narcissist or crazy
or I didn't know to look out for that, right,

(13:52):
So I just saw it as um, oh how cute.
So I fell for it and I was like, okay, yeah,
you know, I love of you, boy, blah blah blah um.
And I thought that I would just grow to where
he was at because when we get picked, we get excited, right, like,
because society has conditioned us to be excited some anybody, right,

(14:15):
you know, especially when he's fine. Right. So I feel
like maybe if I wasn't attracted to him. Obviously this
wouldn't have worked. But I was so attracted to him,
and I couldn't believe at that moment in my life.
And obviously I had some insecurities going on because I
felt like, oh my god, he's so fine. Why would
he pick me? Who am I? You know what I mean?
Have you felt that often in relationship? Was it this?

(14:38):
This dude is just so fine, this is the next level?
And I don't I don't get it. We're just I
think it was the next the next level. I don't
think I've ever had, like, I never really had a
lot of um issues with how I looked or whatever.
That that has never been a problem for me. What
my issue was was the excitement for being picked. He
was also so fine, and the pressure that society puts

(15:01):
on you. I put on myself because at that time
I was thirty two, no kids, never been married, so
you're the leper to society when you're single. And I
know I'm that lebrio. I'm thirty two, no kids, ain't
been married, So I feel you, I feel that pressure
that we start to feel yeah yeah, And I had
heard so many times over and over and Again, this
isn't to throw anybody under the bus, but even just

(15:23):
growing up, it goes back to my childhood. I was
a talker. I always got in trouble. RI could go
sit in the corner. We could go to the principal's office.
Rica shut up, RICA break up. I literally had a
teacher telling me to shut up one time, and that
was the whole thing my mom was about playing. Yeah,
so from my teachers and society, I was being told

(15:44):
that I was too much um And so when I
got picked quote unquote, I was like, yes see because
I had heard that from men too. And also, and
I know we'll get into it. A common theme through
this relationship, that abusive relationship. That was the theme I
was a is trying to morphin change for him because
he would always say things like you're too much, or
you're this, or you're that, and I was trying to

(16:06):
serve my way into his heart, like just pick me
so I can get these people. So next time I
go to somebody's baby shower or my auntie called me
or whatever, they don't have to be like so where
you man out when you're giving us grandkids where you know,
we get sick of those conversations. Um, and so I
just wanted I was trying to what's that saying? Put
the I was trying to put a square peg and

(16:26):
U square peg in around hole. There we go. Yeah, exactly.
Always get that analysy wrong for some reason, but just you.
But you're trying to make it. Yeah, yeah, because because
I also thought like, oh, I'm getting these butterflies. You know,
you're vagina be lying to you. Let me something, let
me let's say we say much word beautiful vagina, vagina

(16:50):
exactly exactly. Your your vagina does not actually know if
he's the one or not. Those butterflies are You're natural,
like that's natural, right, but that that's not your indication
that he's the man or he's the one for you.
But I thought that back then. So I'm like, well,
I'm getting all these butterflies, so he has to be
the guy, so I have to. I thought you just
liked each other. You get these butterflies, and somehow you

(17:12):
make it work. Just make it work, you know, because
butterflies were enough for you to be like, all right,
let's go. I'm let's go something. We're gonna figure out.
I'm gonna make you work make this work. Yeah, because
married people love to say, well, marriage is hard. But
if you don't have that conversation with what is healthy
hard and what is not, then you're just confused that

(17:34):
what is healthy hard and what is not? Because oh,
I'm getting chills thinking about that, because I have been
in that situation too, where it's like marriage is hard,
relationships are hard. People fight, but at what point is
it not normal? Is it toxic? I love that healthy hard,
healthy hard? Yeah. Yeah, And so that's where I was.

(17:56):
It was just a lot of confusion. Um, And like
I said, I'll know, I have definitely examples, and I
know we'll get into that, but please give them. So
he was charming at first, some morning signs, the what
to me now sounds and sounds in hindsight as narcissistic behavior,
emotional manipulation. Early on, I love you when you don't
love me back, And now you feel like you need

(18:17):
to rise to where he is to keep papacified. When
what was the first moment or encounter that made you
be like, oh hold up, something is something's wrong, this
is not this is not okay, okay, that was it.
It was two weeks in I should have left. I
should have left, but I was dating from a seat
of singleness is a punishment and I need to hurry

(18:38):
up and get married. So and and and I thought,
you know how they say, oh, guys are lions, their hunters,
they pick you, you you just wait for your bow as,
which is all a load of crap. But so yeah,
so then this episode, we gotta loot that another yeah. Yeah,
well just just for for a side note, I want

(19:01):
everybody to read, especially if you're a Christian, um read
what Paul says about being single. And the summary is
there's beauty and marriage, but baby, there's beauty and single
and honestly you are. You are more equipped when you're
single to execute God's purpose. So it's First Corinthians, chapter

(19:21):
seven and read that whole h chapter seven and all
of that. But um, anyway, yeah, so I was dating
from the seat of well, I'm only worthy if he
picks me because this is boas, which again he's that's
not boas. But um, so that's where I was dating from.
And so when I saw that two weeks in, like
you said, I felt like I had to rise to

(19:42):
that occasion. And again this is all in retrospect. Things
happen so fast. You don't know why you're doing the
things that you do. But that's the journey that I
had to go on. Um. And this is what I've
journaled out and thought about and everything, is that I
was so busy trying to morph into who he wanted
me to be. And when I tell you, baby was
quick anger. There was so much the emotional manipulation. Um. Yeah,

(20:05):
so like the love thing. Um, so there's that. Um
if he felt here's another. So he would always get
angry because my phone is always on silent. My phone
has been on silent since the day I got a smartphone,
when I had a sidekick at Howard University. Exactly listen,

(20:27):
I don't like the dings, the rings, the notifications, nothing.
And at this point when he met me, I'm three
years into doing a morning radio show where I have
to wake up at four thirties, So I definitely don't
want none of that. But he would always tell me
that's being sneaky. Um, you're hiding something from me. If
my phone rang, you know, you get them one hundred
numbers or numbers you don't know. I don't answer far. Yeah,

(20:49):
I don't answer the phone. Now I don't know if
you do, and he would write and he would get
so mad, like, also, you being sneaky, you don't answer
the phone. And he would always make me feel like
I was the sneaky on to the point where he
literally made me call one of my male friends and
essentially break up with my male friend and say listen,

(21:11):
because this is what he would say. If you really
loved me, you would do this. That's the sentence, right,
that's when if you will and exactly or they make
you feel that way, right, even if maybe it's not
that exact phrasing, they make you feel that way. Um.

(21:32):
And so I felt like I had to do it
because again, well, yeah, I love him, so I have
to do it. And then what's a what's a guy friend? Like?
Who cares? You know? And I used to think all
the time as well to basically make excuses for him
or make it seem right, was Oh, yeah, I don't
have nothing to hide. Cool I'll just cut him off,
or cool, I'll just you know, it's fine. I'm I'm

(21:53):
I don't have anything to hide. Again, trying to morph
and tap dance and too who who who he wants
me to be? Um? So yeah, there was a lot
of emotional manipulation right there. And I'll give you another example. Um,
I visited him in Atlanta. So he lived in Atlanta, Washington,
stay right, Seattle go Hawks, and uh, the whole time

(22:15):
I was paying for everything because he didn't have his
life together. But he had his life together? How do it?
So y'all can't see it, but the faith RIQUE is
serving right now. We have all been there, We have
allen in a listen moment. So so hed have his
life together. He sounds like he was unemployeed or kind
of unemployed. He was chasing that NFL dream, right and

(22:37):
so um and then he had broke his foot. So
I felt bad for him. You know, we're nurturers, right,
So we've seen a wounded dog on the street and
we want to pick him up, and like I can
take care of when. We have to learn how to
channel that energy because that is a natural energy that
we as women have, but we have to learn when
it's healthy and not healthy. But um, yeah, so he
didn't have it together, but he was living in Atlanta. Um,

(22:59):
so he because that football team ended blah blah blah,
so he moved back to Atlanta. That's where he's from.
And he was a security guard at this club in Atlanta,
and typically when I would fly down there, I would
take him to work in his car, right, because you
know i'm taking him to work, I'm visiting. And oddly enough,
just a side note, now that I look back, and

(23:20):
I've looked back, you know, I'm always like, dude, I
would go to Atlanta and some of my best friends
live in Atlanta, and I wouldn't go visit them. And
now I know why, because I was embarrassed about this.
I didn't feel like lying, right, because there was a
lot of hiding. I hid this relationship very well. Um,
And was was it that deep down? You knew if
your friends saw this guy, saw your interactions, saw his behavior,

(23:42):
they would be like, oh, hey, I'm aw something some
what is going on? Or if I told them, um,
they would I guess I didn't want I was trying
to make it work because again, well this is just relationships.
Relationships are hard, So let me just keep this to
myself so I can figure it out. Plus, I didn't
want to feel stupid or and I told you so? Um.
So yeah, So I take him to his job and

(24:03):
I'm like, I'm just gonna hang out until you get
off and then we'll go home. Because they also had
a restaurant which is really good. And um so he
h right, ro what what do you do? What do
you do? He he legit said, okay, cool, Well I
want you to sit at the bar so I can
watch you to see how you turn down men. Girl,

(24:27):
you are joking Rica? Did you see it at that
thing and talk and turned down man? So he go
watch you. Unfortunately, this is safe space, so I don't
want it to sound like I'm just because honestly, I
can't say that if I was not caught up in
a relationship and I was, you know, invested, I can't
say what I would have done either. So wow yeah yeah.

(24:50):
And here's the thing. So all of these things that
he was making me do to prove to him that
I was a good woman because I wanted to do
that too, because I was like, I'm a good woman.
So I'm gonna owe you that I'm a good woman,
so you can shut up and we can move on
with a relationship. Right, So I did it. Oddly enough,
nobody hit on me that night that I remember. I

(25:10):
show him let me. Yeah, But so the whole time.
I didn't know at this moment, but the whole time
he was cheating on me. So the projection that was happening,
because God forbid a woman cheating on a man. That's
like the worst thing for a guy, especially a black man, right, like,
that's the worst thing. Um. And so I again I

(25:33):
didn't know it at the time that it was a
lot of projection, which is another definition, another experience that
we don't know about. We're just told, oh, if he
hits you, that's abuse, da da da. But this projection,
to me, I always say it like this, like the
person screaming the loudest about something they don't like. So
the pastor telling all gays they're going to hell or
whatever it's because they're gay or they're cheating or there.

(25:56):
What is that? I don't know. It's not a Shakespeare quote,
but there's some quote that's like, now, just protest too
much or something like that. Basically you're protesting too much.
You'd be like, no, no, no, I mean I mean
not mean y'all, which essentially implies you are you who
are because you're guilt. It has to go somewhere. That's energy, right, Like,
so you're you feel bad or guilty about something, um

(26:19):
or even if you don't, because I'm sure he didn't,
but you're still gonna act in that way, Like if
you see a lot of people who cheat on people,
you're going to assume everybody does that. And so his
childhood wasn't the best childhood, um and he wasn't the
best man he would like you know, so he is
trash essentially, so he thinks that, um, I would be

(26:41):
that way as well, which I wasn't. And so that's
when I should have dug my hills in and be like, listen,
I'm a good woman, regardless of you think so or not.
So I'm out. Yeah, I oh my god, I feel
like we're just getting started. I hate that we don't
have about like ten minutes left, but I want to
get into the breaking point. And also your advice to
say go women. It's interesting that you bring up projection

(27:02):
because that's what I heard when I heard knowing what
I know about you, and it doesn't take knowing much
about you even to know like you're a good woman.
You're beautiful, you're ambitious, you're hard working, you're down for
the people that you care about. I've seen that. Um,
so I immediately felt like, Okay, well, is this dude
cheating and lying and whatever it is? We can only
see life through our own lens. We only process people

(27:26):
based on what we have in us and who we
are and who people have been to us. And I'm
curious to know what the last straw was because at
this point he's projecting. He is essentially bullying you into
behaving in a way that makes him feel safe and secure. Um,
when did you decide enough was enough? Yeah? So um uh,

(27:47):
let's see in seventeen and June. So our birthdays were
like a week apart. So my birthday is June, his
was like July something. Um, but exactly cancer exactly, the
team cancer all day. Um. And so I was going
I was headed down there. I think it was like
a week before I was headed down there to go
to celebrate quote unquote on birthdays. And I had went

(28:10):
out to a restaurant up here with my cousin and
he knew that. And he even talked to my cousin
when I was out right, because again we had to
I had to check in with him to make sure
he knew where I was at all times. Blah blah,
blah and um. I got home and I think it
was like a Friday night and I think it was
like nine o'clock, and I believe that I did call
him to be like, oh, what you doing? But I

(28:31):
fell asleep and I woke up to like thirty misscalls.
M finally called him and he cussed me out. See
I knew he was cheating on me. How do I
know you went straight home after? Um you left your
cousin and blah blah blah. And I was like, I'll
have to break up with him. This is crazy. What
am I doing? Because this was now two years in,

(28:51):
I was like, this is nuts. So then, anyway, so
I go to Atlanta because I'm like, well about the
ticket now, and I don't know exactly when he changed exactly,
which was dumb. I should have just canceled, but um,
but I went and oddly enough, ZERI let me tell you,

(29:13):
this baby had the audacity to break up with me
saying that he couldn't trust me. I am so offended
on your behalf right now, Honest to god, girl, I
had a self censor because I'm just I'm triggering because
if this ain't thing, The King of Kings when it

(29:33):
comes to some manipulative ship. Have you apologizing for ship
that somebody else did? That he did? Who tell me
he couldn't trust me? And I remember the moment like
it was yesterday. So of course my feelings are hurt
and I start crying. But it wasn't like take me
back cry. It was like I felt relieved, Like it

(29:57):
was cathartic, like thank you Jesus, because I knew that
I should have broke up with him, like I said
two weeks in, and I feel like God was trying
to tell like, baby girl, this is not for you.
But in that moment when I'm crying and I feel relief,
I hear God say, and no it wasn't an audible.
I didn't hear like there's a there's annoying. And I

(30:21):
heard God say, I will use this story. And at
first I was like, no, you're not using I God,
I ain't nobody, nobody tell what happened mine of my
own business. You know I'm single now, but it's correct

(30:44):
um and mind you, at this time, I'm still doing
morning radio and I never told and he had been
on my show this and that, and so from June
two December, I didn't talk about it at all. Like
I remember, I would tell my co host, y'all be
right back, and I would go to the bathroom during
the commercial breaks, and it's cry and like get it together,
get it together, because I still was dealing with a
lot of shame and embarrassment, Like I couldn't believe that

(31:06):
I went through this. I thought I was smart. You
know you are smart. But here's the thing about and
the only reason I stop you is because I felt
the same, and I've I've not shared like particulars on
the show yet and I will eventually, but I'm like,
I'm too smart for what I just went through. And
I felt dumb. I felt stupid, I felt embarrassed, And

(31:27):
if my friends had gone through it, I would have
been like girl, like what do you what are you doing?
It's as clear as day. But it's not that we're
not smart. Narcissists and manipulators. They're so good at what
they do, and I hope we can never relate to
that level of manipulation. Right, It's not unreasonable for you know,

(31:49):
your normal person who is compassionate and has empathy to
not expect that from other people. And so we are
the ones who get manipulated or taken advantage of because
we're approaching people as if they are good and kind
and true. So it's nothing to do with you being
smart or not, has everything to do with him being
trash and a manipulative, low key sociobath and also not

(32:11):
knowing again the difference between healthy love, what is a
healthy relationship versus an unhealthy relationship and the healthy heart.
I didn't know that, so you're just like, Oh, I'm
trying to figure it out with this guy, Like if
people just get it together, we'd be great, right, and
the potential falling for that. So it wasn't until I
think it was October of that I booked the ticket.
But I went to Mexico in December of seventeen. So

(32:34):
on Christmas Day, I was in Puerto Vire to Mexico
by myself, killing because I was like, you know, I
had all of that in my head and obviously a
lot of pressure and everybody was asking like what happened?
What happened? And I just needed to go sit with
myself and have my come to Jesus moment and be like, Rica,
what the hell? Because at the end of the day,
I allowed all of that to happen, and I had

(32:56):
to figure out why. And there were three realized what
did you figure out? Yeah? So yeah, there were three
questions that I asked myself, and it was, um, who
do you think you are? Who? Who do you say
you are? Who does God say you are? And how
do you want to show up in this world from
now on? And and the reason why I fell for
that again is because nobody had the conversations with me,

(33:16):
and so I was confused and I just didn't know boundaries,
like what is a boundary? Where do you draw the line?
I didn't know that it was okay to be single. Um,
I there were so many things that you don't know
because it's not nobody taught who's having these conversations? Yeah yeah, um,
And so I had a lot And then that's when
I dug up the stuff from my childhood, like why

(33:37):
do I why did I need him to make me
feel like I was worthy? Why did I get excited
because he picked me? What were the signs that I
could have uh, that I should have seen and that
I didn't see and now see in the future. And
so there's definitely a lot of introspective work that is introspective? Yeah, Like,
is that the word? I probably going to Howard? I probably. Um.

(33:59):
There was a lot of questions that I asked myself.
And there's a quote that I love now. I'm a
quote quarter now and it says the quality of your
life is determined by the quality of questions you ask it.
So me and Rica we had to get to talking
because that's the thing, like we spend time with ourselves obviously,
but are you really getting to know who you are

(34:21):
and why you do the things that you do? Are
you do you ask yourself questions? Do you talk to yourself?
Do you are you holding yourself accountable and watching the thing? Ye? Yeah, exactly. Um,
And so that's what I had to do. Um. And
there were two books that I brought with me when
I went to Mexico. Um. One of them was Gabrielle
Union's book We're Gonna Need More Wine. And that was

(34:44):
on accident. I think I bought it in the airport
when I was on my way because I'm like, I
going to Mexico and eat, Pray, Love, I've come on Gabby,
listen exactly listen. And of course everybody was scared for me.
My mom was like you could be home on Christmas.
Let's say no, because need to go talk to me anyway.
So I bought that book and I brought the Purpose
Driven Life by Pastor Rick Warren, and I was reading.

(35:08):
I read Gabby's book first, and I Zurie when I
tell you, I was reading her book and I was like,
did Gabby write this book about me? I'm so confused?
Did she just have this play to Mexico? Did she?
Plus one? What is happening? Is she in my head?
Because she had experienced the same thing that I was

(35:29):
going through and she said the same thing. Her parents
never talked to her about this, and so you know,
I don't think a lot of us really know like
before Dwayne Wade, she was married, she went through a
lot of this stuff and and I felt seen and
I was like, oh my, And that was the moment
that I didn't feel dumb anymore. I was like, oh, well,
Gabby can go through this. That means like I'm normal,
this is okay, I can get through it. I can,

(35:51):
you know. I felt seen. And then when I was
reading a Purpose Driven Life, Pastor Rick Warren talks about
your greatest shame will be the thing that heals others.
And remember I told you I heard God say I
will use this story, and I was like, oh, shoot, yeah,
I'm gonna have to tell peoplecle baby before circle. I

(36:12):
wonder how, oh my god, it's killing me that we
don't have more time. But just informmation, you you went
to Mexico, you kind of refound yourself or maybe found
yourself for the first time fully embracing your womanhood after
this breakup. Um, and it leads you to the this
new path. We're gonna have an expert in this episode,
to a therapist who will break down kind of some
of the science of toxicity and abuse in the relationship.

(36:35):
But I would love if you could just let everyone
know if there was one piece of advice that you
could give to the real women listening to your real
woman's story, what do you hope women understand about abusive relationships,
whatever abuse may look like, and also about their singleness
and also where they can find you if they want
to continue that dialogue or get single girl coaching. Yeah,

(36:58):
so I'm definitely I'm a self love and boundaries coach,
right because I think that a lot of women will
I know this, especially the women that I feel called
to coach and speak to And what I went through
is that we don't have boundaries um and we don't
even really know what self love means. We think it's
just a bubble bath, which it can be. But you

(37:19):
also have to be having these conversations. So my hope
is when I have a coaching relationship with you, or
maybe you just hear me and it resonates enough that
you do it on your own, is that you will
date from a seat where you know that singleness is
not a punishment and that you have to know who
you are. You have to know what you want. You

(37:39):
have to you have to have the audacity to believe
that you can get it and the patience to wait
for it. Because when you feel like that clock is ticking,
everybody around you is getting married, that's when when you
when you see it from that lens and that you're
behind everybody else, that will get you in trouble. So
have the audacity to believe that you can get the

(38:00):
exact relationship that you want. A man who was healthy,
a man who loves himself, a man who knows who
he is, a man who's gone on his journey, and
the patience to wait for it. Life is not over
because you didn't get married at twenty two? Is not
so that? That is what I would say. You've come
out on the other side an emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship.

(38:22):
Is it safe to say that you are stronger, um
and more full of self love than ever before? Oh girl,
your question had to ask Rica, if people want to
follow you or maybe even you know, book a session
with you if they're navigating the single waters, where can
they find you? Best places on Instagram? Come on, millennials,
I know you're there, So just me Rica. So that's

(38:44):
j U S T M E R E k A.
So that's on Instagram and of course single dash you
dot com if you need more information about my program. Hey, Rica,
thank you so much. I appreciate your time, your energy,
you sharing yourself and your vulnerability with us UM and
I know it's going to touch a lot of people,
as you have already done and we'll continue to do so.

(39:06):
Thank you so much. No, thank you for having me.
I was so excited when I got the email. I
was like, of course we gotta here, we gotta get
her here. I love it, happy, be alright special. Thanks
again to Rika for sharing her story. So awesome to
see the work that she is doing to empower women
to embrace their singleness and really own it. It's really

(39:27):
good stuff. So I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Next up,
we have back at it again, Dr Jenn Hardy. Y'all
loved her on a recent episode UH talking about New
Year resolutions and why we maybe should or shouldn't make them,
and also how to create resolutions that will actually stick
to and really how to approach this new year. We're

(39:48):
in shout out to one, it's already looking white cute.
Dr Jenn Hardy is a licensed psychologist with a private
practice in Maryville, Tennessee. She has specialized training in psychodynamic
and feminist therapy, attachment theory, and career related issues. She
writes on Instagram about relationships, career issues, resilience, self compassion,

(40:10):
and whatever else is on her mind. I follow her
on instant I highly recommend you do the same. She'll
drop that info at the end of our conversation, but
for now, here's Dr Jen. Dr Jan First of I'm
just so glad to have you back on the podcast.
You're a hit. Yeah. When I got the email, invitation.
I was so excited to be able to come back

(40:30):
because I just had a great time talking with you,
and I just love that you give me the opportunity
to share some insights and it as we all grow,
we help each other out. Let's get our relationships to
be what we want them to be. Yes, absolutely, Well,
let's dive right into this. Obviously, the theme of toxicity
is one that we've heard more and more about in

(40:53):
recent years particularly, and I think it's really great that
conversations are starting to be had more openly. I also
think that when we start to have more conversations, sometimes
the lines get blurred and we start to mislabel at times. So, um,
I would love for you to, first of all, just
break it down for us. What is what are what
is a toxic relationship? What does toxic technically mean to

(41:16):
you in the sense that we use it when it
comes to our relationships. Yeah, when I do think it's
such an overused word, and I think that it's a
word where people are feeling really invalidated in their relationships
and they're trying to convey that, and so they may
use a strong word like toxic for emphasis. And so
I want to try to separate that from the relationships

(41:39):
that really are toxic or harmful. They're unhealthy. And when
I think about definitions of toxic, I'm looking at signs
of abuse, neglect, really violating your boundaries and not getting
your needs met, or you acting in those ways in
relationship to somebody else, Because y'all might be the toxic one.

(42:01):
Whoever you are listening to this. It's not always the
other person. UM, But when you say you know that
there are signs sometimes that you could be that person. UM,
it's hard when it's us, even if sometimes we're the
common denominator and it's and it's I always end up
in toxic things. I always end up in situations like this,
and sometimes, UM, it doesn't hurt to kind of look

(42:25):
in the mirror and figure out, Okay, well, am I
the common denominator? Or maybe I am just repeating patterns
of finding or committing to people who do UM do
who do engage with me in a toxic way. So
when you say abuse, UM, what are some of some
of the signs, UM, whether it's emotion obviously physical abuse,

(42:47):
but emotionally, UM, when does it sort of move from Okay,
this is not ideal. You guys are having issues to
this is toxic or this is abuse, or you should
be concerned or step away from this. Yeah, when things
start getting extreme or rigid around control and power dynamics,

(43:08):
so one person really seeking to hold all of the
power over the other person. Maybe it's on who they're
allowed to spend time with. Cutting you off from your family, friends,
setting really strict rules, maybe accusing you of things that
you have not done and you've you've not given them
any reason not to trust you. And and here they

(43:29):
are frequently forcing you to prove yourself. Um, controlling money. Uh,
then lots of verbal digs, name calling, and people will
try to make excuses for their behavior and they'll say, well,
I didn't mean that I was drunk or I was

(43:49):
just really mad, so it doesn't count. Uh. Yeah, all
of that stuff does count. And that's really valid that
you would feel hurt from that. And even if they
are minimized in it, you're allowed to have the feelings
that you have, right. Um, it's interesting that you bring
up finances we spoke with I spoke with a real
woman sharing her real story. Um. And and just to

(44:12):
be clear for context, Dr J and this isn't the
woman that I'm telling you about who will future this episode.
But she was Um. She was saying that her husband,
as things got um more and more toxic and abusive,
he would control her through finances to where she would
have to beg for ten bucks to go to the

(44:32):
store or to get milk or whatever it was. And
she looked up one day and was like, what have
I become? What is this relationship where I have no
access even to our funds? So I not only can
I not feed myself or hydrate myself when I need to,
there's no way I could ever leave. I don't have
enough money to fill up a tank of gas and

(44:53):
get in the car and drive away. Um. So I'm
glad that you bring that up, because that wasn't, honestly, um,
a thing that I've thought about as a way to
wild control. And yet it is very much I think
one of the the easiest ways to will control if
one of your if your partner, you know, controls the
purse strings. Yeah, and you see this with kids and parents,

(45:16):
where parents will threaten to cut off financial assistance and
support unless that child makes exactly the decision that the
parent has decided. Maybe it's I will only pay for
your college if you go to this college and major
and this major, and it I know that there. The
spirit of it is they likely think that they're protecting

(45:39):
their kid or maybe trying to make sure that they
don't repeat mistakes that the parent had made. That's not
how it feels to be on the other side of
that dynamic. And I used to sort dynamic a lot,
and you'll hear therapists like that word, because it's really
tempting to try to paint these pictures of this is
the good person, that's the bad person, the hero, or

(46:02):
the victim, the villain, And what really happens in relationships
is it's a whole lot messier than that, and it's
really subtle, and things change over time where you might
have periods of time with your friends that the relationship
doesn't feel as healthy in other times when it feel
as much healthier, just as we all change and grow
and are negotiating boundaries um. But when people assume some

(46:28):
really toxic messaging that we hear in society of you
should have known better, you should have seen it coming,
you deserved it, that really paints this blame the victim
mentality that makes it hard for people to get help.
And and so if you find yourself, as one of
the listeners find themselves in that situation, know that you
do not deserve the abuse that you're getting. That what

(46:50):
they are doing is not okay, and that is their choice,
not your choice. And that is okay to get help.
And to that point about it being okay to get help,
you know I can't help, but immediately think about you know,
we saw this sit down with I hesitate because there
are two different things. But um, toxic was a word
that came up in the in these conversations. UM. But

(47:13):
I think about to sit down with Oprah, Megan and Harry,
and Megan sharing her perspective and saying, UM, I believe
she used the word toxic at one point about the
dynamics within the palace and how it got to the
point where her well being was suffering, her mental health
was suffering. And obviously she and Harry ended up removing

(47:33):
themselves from that toxic, toxic environment, and people were divided
on either side of the line whether they should have
or shouldn't have. But I saw um a really great
post um. It was from Ndra actually talking about yeah,
honoring your boundaries and when they're crossed, being you know, um,

(47:54):
being okay with stepping away from a thing that someone
else is trying to normalize, because for you that's not
normal and that doesn't feel good and you feel that
it's toxic. Um. And the reason that I think this
is a really interesting example is because this is an
example of what you brought up a family dynamics. Right.
We always think about romantic relationships and that's toxic and

(48:17):
you you should leave, you deserve better. UM. Can you
give some examples of friendships Maybe you talked about parents,
but friendships that might be toxic um? How how toxicity
might manifest in platonic relationship? Um? And also at what
point you should walk away? Is it okay to sometimes
want to broach a conversation and fix it or is

(48:39):
it what once a certain amount of toxic boxes are
checked off, you should just peace out? I think loaded
question cliche cliche therapist ance er here of it depends, Okay, okay,
give it to me the cliche therapist answering them. But
were a reason though, right, because you sometimes it depends.

(49:02):
It really does depend. Because I am not gonna I
would not have faulted Meg and Marco and Prince Harry
if they would have decided to stay, that's not my
choice to make. And there are people who do choose
to stay, and I don't think that we should shame
them for not making the choice that we would want

(49:23):
them to make on either end of the spectrum. And
there are people in where they have to say, all right,
the costs right now are too expensive for me to leave,
so I have to figure out how I can stay.
With friends, we generally have more autonomy, but there are
ways we get really in mesh with our friends, like
if they are also our roommate, or we've agreed to

(49:46):
co sign alone with them and we're concerned that they're
not going to pay, and then what's that going to
do to our credit score? And are they going to
retaliate against us. There's just every scenario under the sun.
What are some signs of toxic really unhealthy? It's when
you are not getting your needs met or honored. Let's

(50:09):
say that waking you up in the middle of the
night routinely, and you're really exhausted, You've got to work
the next day, and you want to be there for
them in crisis, and you cannot be the only one
that is helping them. That might be an example of saying, okay,
we need to do a check in at a different
time of day, not at three o'clock in the morning
because I have to be able to teach in the morning.

(50:33):
Or financial entanglements, or setting lots of rules around who
somebody is allowed to date and saying you've got to
break up with that person if we're going to be friends,
making threats to in the relationship or to hurt you
or to hurt them. Okay. When we hear phrases like

(50:53):
gas lighting or you know, the label of narcissist, um,
those are also I think sometimes words are phrases that
can be overused, but then are also often applicable. So
if you could break down exactly what is it to
be gas lit? What are the true signs of a narcissist,
not someone who's you know, maybe a little self absorbed

(51:14):
or selfish at times, um, and how do we differentiate
on We could spend a lot of time on that
to talk about gas gas lighting. That would be classic scenario.
Your guts says they're cheating on you, and you're really

(51:35):
sure and there are some things that you're seeing like
they're just gone a lot and they're on their phone
and they're really possessive of their phone, and they're accusing
you of cheating, and you know that this is such
a classic example. And then you express your concerns and
then they say you are crazy, what's wrong with you? Right?

(51:56):
They attack your character or your personality, and they know
that you are right, and they are lying, and they're
gonna go with that story to the end of time.
And you could even say, but I see these text messages,
and then they're still going to be denying your reality.
The reality is because they have some kind of game

(52:18):
that they want to get. When you say that, first
of all, I have been through that top to bottom,
like to the point that even just now my head's
like going into that space and I was like, how
did I not see it? Like I'm not crazy? And
it's when I think about my time and inexperience with
being truly ghastly, Like I mean, I could walk outside

(52:40):
and be like, the sky is blue and he'd be like, no,
it's purple, and I'm like no, me and everyone around
me are like agreeing that this guy is blue. Babe?
Are you okay? It's purple, like what do you? And
there was such a commitment to his lie that I
was like, he, I don't think he's crazy, right, So

(53:02):
maybe I am the one who's losing it, because who
could lie so blatantly and so boldly about something that
is so obviously not true? And so it was like
I would process his behaviors through my lens and how
I would behave and what I would or wouldn't say
about what is or isn't true, which I only realized
in hindsight I couldn't do. And so I looked up

(53:24):
eventually and was completely operating in a world that was
um not real, and and I had just there was
like this cognitive dissonance. I had just stopped questioning certain
things because I wasn't going to get a straight answer.
But I didn't think that he was manipulative enough to
just blatantly lie about things that really were so black

(53:46):
and white. And then in hindsight I realized he absolutely did.
And what gets even harder is if he acts differently
when you are alone together and when you are in
a group of people, So then everyone sees the charm.
Oh he's so funny and nice. I love him, Oh,
you guys must just have the perfect relationship. And then

(54:08):
it really gets you questioning yourself. There, I must be
seeing things different wrong if everyone else is seeing it
this other way. So a lot of times a scale
sliding behavior when people are thinking a narcissism, they're thinking
about behavior like this. We would use the term interpersonally manipulative.

(54:28):
There's a manipulation. There's the point of the gain that
they want to get. They want to be able to
maybe cheat on you and see this other person and
be in a relationship with you and look perfectly put
together and successful, all of the positive things that build
up their sense of self because a lot of times
they have a very low sense of self and you

(54:51):
get pulled into this web. Yeah, when you realize UM,
when you look up and say, you know what I
think I am at a relationship, whether it's platonic, whether
it's a friendship and it's toxic or um. You know,
certainly if it's abusive, what are the steps that you
recommend someone taking when it comes to um broaching a

(55:13):
conversation around boundaries. If it's toxicity that you think can
be healed or repaired, what does that sound like when
you talk to the other person. Yeah, first question you've
got to ask yourself is do you have any safety
concerned And it's your job to listen to your gut
and if you have any amount of safety concerns, don't
go it alone. Find somebody that you can speak to privately,

(55:36):
who you know is really discreet and wise. And so
that that's where people will come to therapists and say,
I've got to talk to somebody, and I just don't
know who I can really trust to not share this
or um. Maybe they still feel protective of the person
that with the friend, so they don't want to cast
a bad light on them in case they're wrong. But

(55:57):
you've gott to find somebody else that you can help
have help you strategize. I've watched friends and some clients
who go through situations with friends who are also roommates
and saying, Okay, how do I set this boundary in
away where my stuff is not all going to get
broken stolen? All right? They're going to try to screw
me out of the security deposit just to punish me.

(56:19):
And and that's where you don't want to go it alone.
Get support from other people who can help you strategize
those that's on the more toxic into the spectrum. If
this is somebody who's more just a one sided love
sided relationship, you can have hopefully conversations with them where
you're able to gently name this dynamic because they're missing

(56:41):
out on things just like you're missing out on things
where it might be Hey, I've noticed recently that we
spend a lot of time focusing on your problems, and
I've been happy to do it because I I really
care about you, and I want to make sure that
you get time and feel supported. I also am having
a hard time myself, and I want to make sure

(57:01):
that maybe we could just talk about what I'm going
through today and sticking to it. And if they've tried
to sidetrack back to their own issues, you can say, okay,
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt once or twice.
But if this is the pattern all the time, maybe
I need to start building up other friendships in my
life so that so many times it becomes this like

(57:24):
all my eggs are in one basket. I have this
one best friend and there to meet all my friendship needs.
And then I can feel really scary when you're trying
to step back from that. So my advice to people is,
don't only have one friend. Built up a community of
people and so then there's less pressure and it's less intensive.
You've got to step back from that person. And um

(57:44):
to piggyback on that concept of friendship. What if we
are the friend, the acquaintance, the person who cares about
someone and we feel like our gut says something toxic
is going on with their dynamic with someone else, when
is it appropriate to bring that up to them and
when should we stay out of it? That is so

(58:07):
hard because they may not be receptive at all to
what you have to say. Uh. I've had situations with
friends where I've had to give that really honest feedback
and I'm not my friend's therapist, so I try to
stay out of that kind of thing. But as a friend,
I feel like it's my responsibility to talk to them.

(58:29):
I generally would say, talk with them one on one
in private at a time when they seem able to
focus and really hear what you have to say. Do
not focus on blaming or criticizing the other person that
they are with, because that's going to put them in
a stance. And saying but he's not all bad, and
then they're not hearing you. So trying to like slow

(58:51):
down and say, here's my concern of things that I'm seeing,
and I care about you, and I'm wondering how you're
really feeling about this? Got it? Dr Jen? How do
we know when we're the toxic one? What do you
What are the warning signs of someone or not someone
I guess, but maybe potentially multiple people, and how they
react to you and um clues and how people behave

(59:15):
or things that they say to you. Because if you're
walking kind of obliviously through life not realizing your patterns
or behavior, like I think there's a lack of self awareness,
that means you're probably not gonna realize it. So like,
if people are listening and they want to look inward,
what what dynamics or experiences might they have that they
haven't realized. Oh, that's not how the people who care

(59:36):
about you should be reacting to your behavior. I would say,
if you have noticed a pattern of people disappearing from
your life, if you have a really hard time accepting
that they're going to have a different view of the
world than you, If you find yourself on some of
those controlling behaviors as red flights that I was describing.

(59:59):
If you're, oh, yeah, I do that, I do that.
Uh Honestly, I think it takes tons of guts to
recognize your own stuff in the ways that you're hurting
other people. So good for you if you are willing
to hold onto that insight, because you can really use

(01:00:19):
that and make your relationships better and then you will
feel happier in them. A lot of this stuff does
come from experiences that we've had earlier in our life,
not necessarily in our family, but sometimes in our families.
I think a lot of these dynamics can happen in
schools and the friendships that we had and who we
might have been around. I just as the mother of

(01:00:40):
a daughter, I'm already seeing through digital school some of
the gossiping and power dynamics playing out, like, oh, this
is already happening on on zoom school? What is this
like on the playground? And realizing that we we learn
about friendships from our friends, and if we had some

(01:01:01):
not so nice friends growing up, we may have learned
some patterns from them, and it's time to unlearn it
if we want different kinds of friendships of course, I'm
going to be an advocate for therapy stories about you.
What would you recommend, Dr JD if we look an appointment,
Maybe therapy journaling, reading books about friendship, just noticing who

(01:01:27):
are friends that you feel healthier with and trying to
move towards those friendships. Is there anything that I'm putting
on the spot with this one, so no, biggie if not,
But any book that comes to mind about boundaries or relationship,
um that maybe people could check out if they want to. Well,
I haven't read it yet, Okay, so welcome to my life.

(01:01:49):
I'm always like, you guys need to read this book.
I heard it was great. Uh well, I'm so excited
in a few days to get in Nedra Twab's book.
I am sure it's gonna be goal Alden and it's
all about relationships and boundaries and I'm terrible at remembering names,
but it's like set boundaries. Peace. I'm gonna I'm gonna

(01:02:12):
do the deep dive of two seconds on Instagram after
our chat and get the title and we'll make that
this week's party drink. Because I've seen Nedro posting about
the book. I'm excited about the book. I think my
mom already pre ordered the book after she started following
Nedra on Instagram after Nedra is pop up on our
our show too. So yes, I co sign that book

(01:02:33):
has a recommendation, even though neither of us has a
ready yet, because we obviously know Nedra's amazing work and
what she posts about Boundaries is just spot on. Yeah,
and it comes out in a few days, right, I've
got my pre order on the way ready to go,
So by the time this episode hits air, guys, you
guys should be able to just straight up order the book,
but stay tuned into the end of the episode. I'll

(01:02:55):
make sure you get all the details so that you
can pre order if it's not out yet, and order
and get to your door if it is um before
I let you go. Dr jim Uh we've talked a
little bit about the idea that sometimes people mislabel or
it's easier or maybe a little lazier to throw an
extreme label on a thing when that thing is not
really worthy of or justifying such an extreme label. When

(01:03:19):
you think about toxicity and sort of this era we
live in, do you feel like people are bandwagoning onto
that idea mislabeling everyone around them who doesn't agree with them,
who is kind of going back and forth as toxic
um without letting people explain themselves, like just what do

(01:03:39):
you see culturally happening when it comes to this space?
And this is where I uh, I think there's like
with social media, there's it's so fast, there's so much content,
everybody's got an opinion, and it just really escalates quickly.
I'm thinking if we could all just take a second

(01:04:00):
to breathe and slow down. But that's not what social
media wants, that's not what algorithms want, and we're really
trained for that instant reaction. So I'm gonna throughout that.
It depends. I think that there are some people who
have for a really long time not been held accountable,

(01:04:21):
and it's time to be held accountable for the ways
that they have been abusive to people. And I think
that there are some people who have made mistakes in
their past and it's they've got to be held accountable
for that too, maybe not through uh, let's destroy their
career that feels canceled gold time for Yeah, And instead

(01:04:46):
of saying, okay, we need a genuine apology or we
need some science that you have learned from that mistake
and you've changed. Any final words of wisdom, I'm giving
you the floor for whatever you like to say. I've
just remember that relationships are super complex and they are
always changing. So the types of friends that you have

(01:05:06):
in your twenties are like like going to be different
than the types of friends that you have in your
thirties and forties. Do not feel like you are getting
life wrong if you don't have the same set of
friends from when you're kid. It's like when people are
in really long term romantic relationships, the relationship has to

(01:05:27):
keep changing to meet the changes that each of the
individuals are going through. And so people will talk about
I've had many marriages to this one person I've been
married to because we have both changed a lot. And
that's true of friendships as well. And so if you
do see some friends leaving your life or relationships ending,
it doesn't necessarily mean that you've done something bad or

(01:05:49):
that they've done something bad. Sometimes the connection just bussiles. Yeah, yeah, now,
that's really great to know. And I think also reassuring
for people who are like, am I getting this right?
Am I getting this wrong? Myself included like sometimes you
grow out of people or relationships or friendships and that's okay.
Um where I think sometimes we've been conditioned to just

(01:06:12):
hold on, just hold on for dear life no matter what,
even if you know we're not really serving the relationship
or friendship anymore or vice versa. So it's it's empowering
to hear that that's okay. And sometimes you just have
to bow out gracefully and keep it moving and they
can still be your friend. They just may be a
more distant friend as you move closer to other people

(01:06:33):
who are in the same phase of your life. Yeah.
Dr Jenn. If people want to keep up with you,
if they want to follow you, maybe sliding the d
M S Book, an appointment, any of the things. Where
can they find you? Yeah, the easiest place to find
me is on Instagram? Dr Jen Hardy and Jen is
with two ends. Okay, good you beat me to it

(01:06:53):
because I was like, we gotta throw in the extra
in there just in case that they can find you.
Dr Jenn, Thank you so much, appreciate you as all always.
Another great conversation. Yeah, thank you so much for having
me happy bet. Thank you again, Dr Jen for dropping
so many gems per usual. I hope you all took
something away from this episode. If it resonated with you,

(01:07:16):
If you feel like you have a friend or a
loved one who it might resonate with, go ahead and
send it to him, share it. We are growing and uh,
we are so grateful for every single one of you
who are listening. So thank you so much for continuing
to listen. And as promised, here is this week's party trick.
It is the new book by Nedra Glover to Wob

(01:07:36):
who of course made her first appearance on the podcast
on our very first episode of pot Happy Mess. Her
book is called Set Boundaries, Find Peace, a Guy to
Reclaiming Yourself. Boom. There it is. You can find out
how to order by going to our show notes on
Hot Happy Mess dot com or directly on Ndra's Instagram account.

(01:07:56):
I hope you enjoy it. If you check it out,
let me know what you think. We've got some great
stuff in store, so make sure you're subscribed. New episodes
every Monday for Hot Happy Mess, and you can keep
up with us on Instagram at Hot Happy Mess or
me at Zuri Hall z U R I H A
L L. And I will see y'all on Monday. For

(01:08:17):
the next one,

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17: Is Your Situation Toxic AF?? Here’s How to Tell (And What to Do)! | Love + Relationships

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}17: Is Your Situation Toxic AF?? Here’s How to Tell (And What to Do)! | Love + Relationships