4: Don't Let Social Media Ruin Your Life. (Here's How!) with Dr. Mai-Ly Nguyen Steers

Social media is an awesome tool when used properly, but oftentimes we let this inanimate object wreak havoc on our lives. In today’s episode, we are diving into social media -- the good, the bad, the ugly. First, Zuri chats with expert Dr. Mai-Ly Nguyen Steers, about the effect of social media on our lives and how we can properly use social media as a healthy tool so that we can enjoy it. Next, Zuri chats with her real-life friends, in a HHM signature segment -- The Group Chat -- where the girls talk all things social -- from feeling 107 years old on Tik Tok, to sliding into the DMS; Cleo going viral over her Seeking Entanglement tweet (lmao); sharing your kids on social, and more!

Notes:

• Dr. Mai-Ly Nguyen Steers is an assistant professor in the School of Nursing at Duquesne University and an applied social psychologist. She brings passion and commitment to health-related research. And has authored articles on the effects social media has on our lives. www.mailysteers.com
• The Groupchat: Zuri Hall | Cleo Ellis | Travasha Winfrey

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hot Happy Mess Celebrate your magic in the middle of
life's messes. Hot Happy That I'm Zuri Hall and this
is Hot Happy made shot back at it in my closet.
It's gonna be another great episode. What is up? I

(00:28):
am Zuri Hall, your host. Welcome back to Hot Happy
Mess Today, Episode four. We are diving in to social
freaking media man. Social media, the good, the bad, the ugly. Um.
I am looking forward to this episode because basically, this
is what all of our lives revolve around, and it's

(00:52):
something that I'm excited to talk about in a constructive way.
You know, social media is supposed to be a tool.
It's supposed to be a great tool, one that is
awesome when it is used properly, it can be a
good thing. And then when we become the tool, that's
the oh moment um. I watched Social Dilemma on Netflix,
as I'm sure many of you have. We can talk

(01:13):
a little bit more about that in a second. But
to that whole social media good, bad, ugly thing, can
we just talk about the fact quick life update, I
am currently house shopping and I'm super new and early
into the process. Just like a few hours ago, I

(01:33):
was on a tour for another home, So please, d
you have me send me emails with advice on how
to get through this and not lose my mind. But
I was um shopping and I saw one of the
homes and I toured it and it was beautiful, absolutely amazing.
I genuinely liked it just for me and my vibe
and what it is I'm looking for. And I was

(01:54):
in the kitchen of the house and I remember thinking immediately,
like my first reaction was, oh, my gosh, Zuri, think
about how amazing all of your cooking photos for Instagram
will look in this kitchen, Like what that should not
be the first that should not be the first thought

(02:15):
for anything that I'm about. Just been how much money
I'm gonna have to spending in a house in l A.
It's really depressing. Oh gosh, anyways, whatever, That's not the point.
The point is the fact that my initial reaction to
this kitchen wasn't like oh I could doda, or like, oh,
these burners will be great because this or you know

(02:38):
what I love about this open floor plan, or h
I can't wait to bake blah blah. Here. It was
this is gonna look so lit on Instagram. What okay.
So I stopped myself immediately and was like, devil, get
me back, because I'll be damned if I'm buy an
entire kitchen, a whole kitchen because it's a vibe for

(03:02):
the Graham. No, thank you, but the thought did crossed
my mind for half a second. Not gonna lie. So
I'm house shopping. I'm excited, I'm nervous. I am not overwhelmed,
but I am wondering if I will be soon. So again,
give me your tips and recommendations and pray for me,
because this l a housing market is no joke. That
and Invisiligne. Those are my life updates. I am past

(03:26):
the braces phase, as you guys know. I went to
see my amazing orthodontists today and we are setting the
path towards Invisilne greatness. So I'm really excited about that.
I'll let you know how it goes. But back to
today's topic, social media. Like I was saying the social
dilemma on Netflix highly recommended, there was this moment where

(03:47):
one of the guys from Silicon Valley was talking about
the fact that if you are getting something for free,
whether it's an app, whether it's a social media platform. Whatever.
If they're like, yeah, I just keep using it, no
big deal. People are in it for money. Businesses are
in it for money. That's the bottom line, right, So
if you're getting something for free, it ain't because they're generous.
It's because you are the product. And that blew my mind.

(04:12):
I was like, holy crab, the man is watching. I
try to like log off and pull out my wife
I cord and then I was like, just kidding, I
need all of this and I'm Jones and it's been
five seconds, So back online we go, Hello the man.
My name is Zuri, but you probably already knew that,
but it really is fascinating. You should watch it on Netflix. Um.
It's just about how we give over our information, so

(04:32):
much data without even thinking about it, to make our
lives easier in the moment. But what it also makes
easier is these brands and big businesses opportunities to sell
not to us, to sell us, to sell our information
to brands who are willing to pay for it, corporations

(04:52):
who are willing to pay for it because when they
know your favorite color, when they know your favorite food,
when they know that you were adapted or they know
that you're looking for your long lost brother, or they
know that you're going through a divorce or planning a marriage,
they can better sell to you and your needs. And
I was like, oh my gosh, so all that to say,
watch Social Dilemma on Netflix if you have, and it's

(05:13):
really well done. It is a great you know, piggyback
on what we're talking about this episode. We are going
to have an amazing expert to kick things off, Dr
Miley wind Steers. She's an apply social psychologist has done
a bunch of articles on the effects of social media
and and the effects of social media on our lives.
And then we're going to the group chat. Y'all is

(05:35):
back to the group Chad. There are three of us
talking about social media from just like a completely different lens,
just the hot, happy mess of it all. We're talking
about TikTok, which I feel entirely too old for. I
have never felt more like a dinosaur than trying to
work TikTok. But um, one of the group chat girls
loves it. Low key went viral a couple of times

(05:55):
on TikTok. And then we're also talking about men. One
of our group chat members is single and ready to mingo.
We're talking about sliding in the d M s all
that jazz. You're gonna get to meet a new member
of the group chat today. Who will it be? Who?
Stay tuned. Stay tuned to find out. It's gonna be fun. So, uh,

(06:16):
last thing before we get into it. Thank you all
so much for all of the amazing reviews. The five
star reviews are pouring in. I appreciate them, we see
them all. I love you all um. If you could
just subscribe, make sure you are subscribed, and if you
are loving what you're hearing, who else might text that person?
Share the podcast, share how happy mess with one person today?

(06:37):
If you would do that, I would be eternally grateful.
Thank you. I love you. Without further ado, First up,
let's get into this expert combo. All you guys. I'm
super excited for our next guest. Dr Miley Wensteers is
an Assistant professor in the School of Nursing at Ducane
University and she is an applied social psychologist. She Brew

(07:00):
was an amazing passion and commitment to health related research,
and she's authored articles on the effects that social media
has on our lives. So Dr Steers, How are you
doing today? I'm good. Thank you for having me of course,
so excited to have you here. You know, we've been
talking over a recent episode, especially about the comparison trap.

(07:21):
UH one one guy Paul labeled it obsessive comparison disorder,
and we kind of did a deep tive into what
that might mean, not a clinical term technically, but his
phrase for ours sometimes addiction to comparing ourselves. So, just
to kick things off, I would love to hear from
your perspective. You were featured in an article on Psychology

(07:44):
today about the comparison trap. From your perspective, what does
that mean? What? What is the trap that we all
tend to fall into? So there was a very famous
social psychologist name is Leon Festinger, and he came up
with the whole concept of social comparison and he basically
says that it has to do with you trying to

(08:05):
um measure your abilities against people that you think are
similar to yourself. And so it really is very um
it differs by person and um the difficulty with social
media as you really have no idea what people are
going to post, and so things that you think are
completely benign for instance, or even great events like maybe

(08:30):
a pregnancy or an engagement, can inadvertently cause other people
to feel bad because they they might have just broken
up with their boyfriend or girlfriend and then they're seeing
your posts about your wonderful engagement and how much your
fiance went through you know, the planet proposal, whatever, and

(08:51):
then you it just it can really affect people that way. Um,
and we're often not even privy to the effects of
what how we're whatever we're posting other person. I think
it's great and maybe even a little comforting for some
people to hear you say that, because you know, sometimes
in our minds like well, why do I feel this way?

(09:11):
Or I don't technically want anything bad or harmful to
happen to anyone else. I don't want other people to
be miserable. So you know, when you hear that, people
have distress or anxiety or depression around sometimes or triggered
by the good things in other people's lives. Um, I'm
sure people start to feel like, Okay, what is going
on here? Like this, this isn't who I am, This

(09:33):
isn't how I feel in my day to day life.
How come these technically exciting or positive things in other
people's lives make me feel so bad about mine? What
would you hope that people understand about those emotions? Um,
that they sometimes feel those emotions that are triggered by
what they're seeing on their feeds or via their friends
or families or sometimes total strangers posts. Well, I think

(09:57):
we're we're kind of attracted to material um that is
really important to us. And then also the thing about
social media is we only tend to post our highly reels,
let's be honest, like we're not in there, you know,
posting typically about our grocery short store shopping, or like
the negative events that occur in our lives. And so
you're really looking at a very um cultivated image that

(10:21):
people are trying to put out there. And so I
think trying to keep that in mind that not not
everything you see reflect is reflective of that person's life,
and um, you know they're of course they're not intentionally
trying to make you feel bad. It just happens to
it's like an automatic tendency or whatever it is that

(10:41):
you're kind of focusing on. So one of my friends,
she's struggling with infertility right now, and anytime she sees
a baby announcement. She cringes, you know, and she knows
deep down, like that person isn't trying to harm me
or trying to make me feel bad or but it
kind of feels like it's almost in your face social
media because people are like shouting it from the rooftops

(11:03):
or something like that. But that's really not the intention,
you know, of the people and um and she recognizes
that too, but it still hurts you right right. It's
like sometimes we know deep down what a thing is
or isn't, what's good for us, what's bad for us,
and then we still do it anyway, or we still
think it anyway. How do you recommend people, um set

(11:25):
healthy boundaries? What should we be asking ourselves when it
comes to being intentional about our relationship with social media?
But the thing about social media is obviously we're so
engaged with it because we get sort of a high
from it. And in fact, they've done they've done these
MRI studies where you can actually see brain regions activate

(11:46):
when you're when you're using electronic devices or social media
that are that kind of kick off. Dopamine, which is
the same kind of substance that is used in chemical addictions.
So like drugs, drug use and so forth. And the
thing about it is, uh, the way we're kind of
attracted to social media is occasionally it makes us feel good,

(12:08):
so we have intermittent reinforcement, but occasionally it makes us
feel really really bad, but we keep going back to
it for that high. Um. And in fact, intermitt and
reinforcement UM, they've done lab studies for with like rats
and so forth. So it's actually if you give a
rat intermittent reinforcement, meaning you only give the food certain

(12:29):
times when it pushes a bar or does a trick
or whatever, it actually makes it more hooked, keeps going
back more and more for that is that kind of Okay,
don't quote me. It's been a long time since I
was in school. Uh, pa loves dog theory is coming
to mind. It's similar to that. Um it's called that's

(12:50):
what you're referring to is classical conditioning. And actually a
lot of times I kind of um think of notifications
as being a classically conditioned response. So you get these
notifications and then automatically you have to check your phone
right away, and that becomes like an addiction or a
cycle because you're compelled to check your phone the immediate

(13:14):
the time that you um, whenever you get a notification.
And so I think the way that you can kind
of start to set healthy boundaries is to track and
monitor what you're doing. UM. So there are there are
apps like Moments for instance, UM that you can download
and it tracks and monitors your usage and your phone
usage and can tell you what categories that you're you're

(13:37):
using your phone for and how much time you're spending
on it, for instance, and turn off your notifications because
that is that really triggers you know, you wanted to
look at your phone all but yes, it's like there's
something about what's so funny is I go through this?
My brands have gone through it? Will be online will
say you know what, guys, I'm about to do with

(13:57):
social media detox, and we just filed any to announce
it to the world like the world cares or we'll
even miss us if we disappear from social media for
a week. Um, but we go off and it's amazing.
I never miss it. I will tell you that I
might have the the conditioned urge to just touch it,
check it because I've done it so much, but I'm
never just you know, hunched over the couch, like, good God,

(14:20):
what's happening on Instagram? If only I knew? I feel freer,
I feel lighter, my mind becomes clear as the day's progress.
And yet still, something about the age we live in
means after a week off the grid, I can come
back and it's like I never left. I'm right back
to addicted. I'm right back to those behavioral patterns. So

(14:40):
are my friends, you know, so are other people who
have this love hat your relationship with social media? Um,
I mean, I don't want to be overly extreme, but
the dopamine hits, you acknowledge that that is associated with
drug use, with addiction. I myself have been very fascinated
by the psychology of love, been there similar experiences when

(15:02):
it comes to those those dopamine hits and surges? Um,
how do you know? How about this question? How do
you know when you have a problem with social media
that truly mirrors addiction, that truly begins to feel problematic
or like, hey, maybe I need to um talk to
someone about this Because it's easy to say walk away

(15:24):
from it. But if you have become so sort of
entrenched in this world, especially when you think about younger
generations who have only ever grown up with it. It's
easier said than done to just walk away and feel
like you're not missing out on something that you should
be a part of. Yeah, I think one thing you
can kind of think of is do other people mention

(15:47):
you know, like you're always on your phone or you know,
I think you have a problem with social media, because
that can be a huge indication. I mean it's similar
like like we were discussing, is similar to addiction, So
it has sort of addictive qualities. Can you actually walk away? Um,
can you actually limit the amount of time? If you can't,

(16:09):
then that's probably an indication that you do have an
and addiction. Obviously, two sides to every coin. There can
definitely be a lot of perils with social media, but
there can also be good. You know, anything when used
as a tool it's intended to be can be a
good thing. How do you recommend people establish a relationship

(16:29):
with social media? From all of your research, let's you know,
and use some positivity, some hope into how we might
be using our platforms. What's some of the good just
even from your personal perspective, when it comes to this
ability to not just compare, but to you find inspiration
motivation from other people's content. I think the thing about

(16:50):
it is social media has been given a bad rap
and it's it's just a medium, right, it's really how
you use it. So I I really think, um, if
you're using it to actually really connect with people on
a deeper level rather than just getting validation, then that
is something where it can be really positive. So for instance, um,

(17:11):
a lot of groups. Um, there's a lot of groups
out there. Um. So if somebody is struggling with a
particular issue and they can go and relate to other
people that are going through that same issue, and that
is a way that you can really bring connection. But
if you are going on to social media and trying
to post things like young people often do, and they're

(17:34):
trying to post things in order to get validation, then
that can be the kind of the trap, you know,
where you're constantly seeking that high, that dopamine hit from
people responding to your posts, and it's kind of like
an external validation measure. So it used to be like
you'd have popularity, but then there's actually this metric now yeah,

(17:57):
for your popularity, and so that's where it becomes problematic
is like if your whole self esteem hinges on that,
you know, yeah, and to fight that or to counter that,
it becomes more important than ever to develop one's self esteem,
to develop one's self worth outside of these platforms, because

(18:19):
if you don't feel like you are enough when you
wake up every morning just because you woke up, and
you don't feel enough when you go to sleep just
because you got through the day and you're you're proud
of who you are, it becomes really difficult to convince
yourself that's enough, and you're you're constantly comparing yourself to
these measuring sticks. So how do you encourage people to

(18:41):
sort of cultivate UM that that self worth, that self esteem.
We talked recently UM in another expert panel about core values.
Understanding who you are and who you're not, what you
value and what you don't, helps to ease the comparisons.
Sometimes when you realize, well, hey, what that person values

(19:01):
isn't even really what I value, because I've done enough
work to realize that's not what I want. So even
though society tells me it's cool, it's sexy, it's fun,
it's shiny, I know what I want and that's not it,
So that kind of helps turn the dial down. What
do you recommend um as far as cultivating self esteem
and self worth and just kind of discovering who you
are so that you don't get lost in the sauce

(19:24):
of social media telling you who you should be. I
think if you cultivate interest, um, that really uh, that
you're really passionate about, beyond just trying to seek that
validation through social media. I think that can really really
that can very much help to define you. Um. And
you know, finding things that you're passionate about could be

(19:46):
you know, one of my friends was talking about during
COVID she's actually become really passionate about knitting. Just let
me go now, you know, baking whatever I mean, you
have to be some major thing, you know what I mean.
It doesn't have to be this life altering, defining thing,

(20:08):
but just like finding your passions, and it could be
reading books, that could be It could be knitting like
my friend is, you know, it could be baking different things.
It could be creating. I think anytime you're creating that
fulfills a lot of people, and creation, like creating things
can come manifest in many different ways. You know. It

(20:29):
could be painting, could be writing, it could be art,
it could be music, could be any number of things.
But I love that surround yourself with creativity, things that
light you up, inspire you instead of maybe you know,
trigger you or make you feel like you're not doing enough. UM.
In your article and one of your articles, you mentioned
fight or flight and how being ensconced social media can

(20:52):
actually trigger that. Could you just explain that a little
bit for us well, especially like with in the context
of like covid it and what we've been going through
with the pandemic. It's like you are always on edge
in terms of what you're seeing and and lately it's
been this parade of bad news on social media, and

(21:13):
so it can be really anxiety provoking, and it can
provoke these really prolonged fight or flight responses, and so UM.
One of the best ways I think to kind of
alleviate that stress is to find something to um. For instance,
going out into nature just kind of pushing that reset button,
you know. Restoration theory really tells us that just being

(21:36):
around nature and and enjoying and being in the calm,
because it's almost like social media is a bunch of
chattering noises all around us all the time, and it
creates a lot of noise in our environment. And so
just being out in like really um open and calming
spaces can can very much help us to restore. Yeah,

(21:57):
I love the restoration theory. Okay, I'm gonna have to
do into that, but it makes total sense. I know
when I go outside and take a breather, I feel better,
So that makes sense. Um, this is I'm going a
little off topic here. It's still in the social media world.
But if you if you have an answer, I would
love to hear it. If not all good, but you know,
we've been dealing with the pandemic as you mentioned obviously. Um,

(22:21):
this this COVID nineteen world in which we were constantly
reading headlines, were waking up with anxiety. We're going to
sleep with it. Also, this is an election year. There
was a lot of news out and about and we're
just constantly consuming information. And there's been this conversation that
no matter what side around, no matter who you agree
with or don't, I personally believe this. I've said this,

(22:44):
you know, I've talked to people who agree, some who disagree,
but that our lives online just become an echo chamber
of what we believe or what we want to hear,
because they're all algorithm fueled, right, So it's not like
social media is just this unbiased news presentation. It's oh,
I like that, and I spent ten more minutes reading that.

(23:07):
So this platform is going to give me more of
that because they want to they want to keep me
on here. Um. I would just love to hear your
perspective on that, that sort of echo chamber mentality or
echo chamber situation to social media And if there's anything
that you would hope, you know, users keep in mind
about the world in which we had have it, the

(23:28):
world that we'd have it when we're online, versus the
real world, the reality unplugged from those platforms. Yeah, a
lot of people use social media as their window to
the world, and what we're starting to see is that
window is very skewed. Um, like you're mentioning, Um, I mean,
even going back to the last presidential election, for instance,

(23:49):
if you were Hillary Clinton supporter, chances are all that
you saw in your social media feed was Hillary Clinton
material and pro Hillary Clinton material at that And so
the act that Donald Trump would have been, you know,
could have been elected. Didn't even across your mind. Probably
I thought it was very remote possibility, but then you

(24:10):
kind of realize that's not really reality, and so and
and that, and that's one of the dangers of social
media is the fact that we often experience confirmation bias,
meaning social psychologists think we inadvertently try to seek out
material to basically confirm our biases. And so that can

(24:32):
be dangerous because then it leaves you very vulnerable to
not really knowing reality, you know, um and not. And
also another thing is it leaves you vulnerable because you're
not really taking in other people's perspectives or opinions or
accounting for them, you know. And I think that's really

(24:53):
become really um, probably why the nation is so polarized,
because as a confirmation bias, because the more we seek
out these this material that supports our point of view,
the more entrenched we become into it, and the more
likely we are to um separate ourselves from the other,
you know. And we and a lot of studies on

(25:15):
group dynamics, and the more that we can become solidified
in our point of view and um really grasp on
to that point of view, the more likely we are
to view the opposing side as being we discount it,
we discount the people, etcetera, and so and that can
be really dangerous. Yeah, well, and that's exactly what I

(25:38):
wanted to say to your point about confirmation bias. It
feels so dangerous because we're making real world choices and
decisions based on our online and social media experiences, because
we're on these phones and these devices all day. But
then we have to look down from those screens to
actually make decisions in our everyday life based on the

(25:59):
echo chamber that each of us has been existing it
all day. And so it seems it feels, you know,
impossible or highly unlikely that a lot of us are
making real world decisions um from an informed and truly
unbiased perspective, because we've just been swallowed by our own bias.
And then we show up to the party and say, Okay,

(26:22):
I know what I want to do. I've thought this through,
I've seen all signs of the argument, when really we haven't.
We've seen our side over and over regurgitated back to
us exactly. In fact that the World Health Organization has
called it an infodemic. They said, there's so much conflicting information,
A lot of people don't know what to believe, and

(26:43):
then because we have this confirmation bias, we tend to
believe what we want to believe, and and and pretty
much there's almost this sense that what is the what is?
We used to have this sense like there is an
objective reality, but now you can dig up and nation
on both sides, UM, where it's almost like there is

(27:04):
no objective reality anymore. Before I let you go, are
there certain things if you could just sort of inflummation
break it down that you hope our listeners are hot,
happy mess game keeps in mind when it comes to
our relationship with social media? UM, what to remember what
you consider maybe boundaries to to explore UM as we

(27:26):
move forward with trying to establish healthier relationships with these platforms,
I think, UM, one thing you want to keep in
mind is how much time are you spending on these platforms?
Isn't really distracting from your real world relationships? In fact,
the mere presence of a cell phone, they've discovered UM
can trigger these feelings of fear of missing out and

(27:49):
you actually it actually lowers your interactions, the quality of
your your face to face interaction really and you can
see that now, Like you go to a restaurant and
everybody's on their cell phone, people are sitting across from
each other, and and we actually get more so when
we're bonding with other people, that's when we feel most alive.

(28:09):
But we because it's triggering these feelings of missing out,
it actually lowers our qualities or social interactions with the
people that we are with face to face. And so
we're seeking that validation, we're seeking that UM, that bonding
experience with other people through our devices, which we're never
going to be able to fulfill in the same way

(28:31):
that we do face to face. And we're actually lowering
the quality of our interactions while we're doing it. And
and so it can be a really um a cyclical thing,
you know. And and you start to to not really
live your life in the real world but always online,
you know. And I think that's where it becomes a

(28:51):
real big issue. So if you are experiencing that UM,
then I would suggest trying to step away from your
phone UM, trying to set limits through tracking and monitoring
how much time that you are spending. See if the
quality of your interactions actually improve once you start to
step away from your phone and you're a devices. You know,

(29:16):
I would, I would bet they would. You know, See
if you actually start to enjoy things more, UM, take
that in and kind of internalize it. See if you
can also create your own internal validation rather than seeking
external validation. I know a lot of our participants and
studies have mentioned to us that, UM, they're really afraid
of stepping away because they're afraid of not being relevant anymore.

(29:40):
Talk about it, talk about it. That is if for
so many people, even myself, like I'll be honest in
saying something about UM checking in posting the photo, just
getting the likes in the comments, he is like, Okay,
I'm still here, guys. Okay, I'm gonna go back on
and do whatever I had to do now, I'll pop

(30:00):
back in two days. Your mind, you guys, I'm still
here in the same way I was, you know, talking
about those detoxes where we're just so we assume, you
know that we just have to be on these platforms
that if we're leaving, we need to let everyone know
we'll be back soon. I mean, it's a relationship with
a I don't even like an enigma, this non existent thing,

(30:21):
and yet there's so much loyalty between us as individuals
and this this non existent and yet very existent thing.
I don't even have the words for it, doctor Steers. Yeah,
I mean, why, why why should we be striving for
relevance among people that we don't even know, we don't

(30:43):
know very well, Like nobody really needs to get validation
from five people, you know, Well, I guess five people
isn't even what you want to get validation for. It's
my thousands or millions of millions. We want millions. But
we should really be folk a sing on on being
popular among the people were around, like physically around, and

(31:06):
that's actually going to make us happier as human beings.
You know, cultivating strong relationships with people that we see
face to face is going to make you way happier
than trying to cultivate these artificial relationships with people online.
So that's a really great point, really great point. And
that's the goal here, that's the goal with the podcast

(31:26):
is how to be happier and be in a state
of happiness or joy, not needing something constantly to feel that,
but just being at peace and the fact that that
creates that that sensation, that feeling of positivity and joy.
And if there's one thing I know for sure, it's
that social media will never be it because there will
always be someone more popular with more likes, who did

(31:52):
a slightly cooler thing than you did. It is, you know,
just bonkers to me that we wake up every day
and literally see what the world is doing, literally see
how everyone else woke up and what they ate for
breakfast and what they did for lunch, and how many
friends were at their happy hour versus hours. And it's like,
you're so busy watching other people's lives you can't even

(32:13):
be fully present in your own. And and what a
sad thing to realize, what a waste, waste of a life.
And I say that as someone who does it too,
you know, like that's not even judgmental. That's like we're
all victims of it to a certain extent. But the
first step is um just realizing, recognizing that we've fallen
into these patterns, and then uh, setting the intention and

(32:36):
making the effort to change it. Definitely, definitely, well, Dr Steers,
this was very amazing. You dropped some terms on me.
I'm gonna have to go Google. I'm excited about restoration theory,
confirmation bias, Um, if people want to keep up with
you or stay in touch or maybe read some of
your published work, where can they go? Um, I have

(32:59):
a website. It's uh Miley Steers dot com has some
of my information. You can also look me up in
at Duqueenne University UM School of Nursing. Uh so, yeah,
it's Miley Steers is spelled m A I L Y
S t e r s dot com. Perfect. Thank you

(33:22):
so much. Dr Steers have a good one. Stay safe
in there out there. Thank you. She is just so dope,
one of my favorite combos so far on this podcast.
Just a ton of information, So thank you again. Y'all
can tell I was clearly fascinated during that conversation. Hi. Happy,

(33:42):
Now it is time for the group chat. This is
a quick but random note. So we're talking about Tom.
Remember Tom from my Space. Yeah, we thought a lot
that he was from Facebook in this conversation, so we
keep saying Tom, Tom Tom while talking about face book.
But Tom was actually like the homie on my Space

(34:04):
who was in your top eight without low key or
consent because he was like your first friend in my Space.
That's how old we are that Tom is but a memory.
So distant that we can't even remember which freaking platform
he was talking us on. Okay, okay, group chat. Here
we got in today's episode of the group Chat, We've
got Travasha and Cleo. What's up, ladies, Hello? So I

(34:29):
just want to have a conversation, um about social media.
I feel like we are of the age women of
a certain age that uh came into like teenage years
or early adulthood before this was a thing. And then
we were the like test market, like the at the time,

(34:50):
like young adult right right who They were like, try
this new thing, how do you like it? Oh, it's
ruining your mental health. Perfect, here's ten more. And then
we just had to figure it out. And now there's
this new generation. You know, you've got gun z and
they have only ever known life constantly broadcastings. It's kind
of fascinating. They don't even know the first thing about

(35:11):
my space. Oh my gosh, starting what a time? What
a time? Top eight? Top ten was the top eight,
I think it was top ten, it was something. So
it was like such a specific number, um. And then
oh no, that was Facebook, I was like, and tom

(35:31):
was it was in everyone's top eight. But that was
when you first got on Facebook. The kids don't know
nothing about that starting to Facebook account and your first
friend was Tom. Yeah, and you couldn't You couldn't start
the Facebook account until you were in college. Remember that,
had you only in college, it wasn't like. I remember

(35:52):
being a little fast as h fourteen year old thirsty
butt and like begging my cousin to let me use
her college email to try to start my own account.
She was like, already have an account, so you can't. Like,
what are you doing? You can't and then you'll be
talking to top college kids like you're in high school now.
And then I was like, can you just let me
log in so I can just like see everybody and

(36:14):
like talk to your friends and like message people, and
she let me do it. Oh my god, what a
weird kid. This was like the old school. I told
my dad that he almost cried because they just they
realized how much access their kids had two stuff that
they didn't know at the time, and we were like
kids when it was first a thing. They were like, all, Okay,
whatever Zurie knows about computer, she's twelve. I don't know

(36:36):
anything about him. And they didn't know the dangerous of
my parents were the opposite. Like, my dad had like
a keystroke, he knew all of my passwords. I didn't
know this till I as an adult. He's like, he's like, no, no,
He's like, I'm not stupid. He's like, I was not
allowing my sixteen year old like to be on these
things unfettered. And wow. Okay, so we got off on

(36:56):
a little bit of a tangent with the whole social
media thing. But that's only because we are of the
O G s, the elders of social mode. I've never
felt older, generally speaking, in my life. But like, let's
just fast forward post my Space, post time post sneaking
in our cousin's Facebook accounts, and talking to grown asthment
on aim um. Now you've got Insta and Twitter and

(37:18):
like the new version of Facebook that may or may
not have influenced important elections, Like my how times have changed. Okay,
So we're gonna play a quick game that producers star found.
It's from Cosmo Cosmo mag and it's which social media
platform are you? So basically how you play? You guys
can follow along. If you're listening right now, you should

(37:39):
definitely play. We're gonna play with Cleo and bosh Um.
For every A you get, take note, every B and
every C take note. And then at the end, whichever
one you have the most of, we're gonna reveal which
social media platform you are. I guess okay, number one,
it's seven am, and your alarming you obviously A make

(38:02):
a slow drip coffee stretch, check emails. That's who I
wish I was in the morning. Be, create a five
minute smoothie bowl and whisk much or see start your
morning skincare with Gauasha. I don't know what that is,
but it sounds fancy. First of all, all of these

(38:23):
assume that I'm not about to immediately hit snooze. I
go get the baby, breastfeed her, and go back to
sleep in my bed time. Okay, fine, in your in
your most ideal life, in the in your best life version,
which of these? I don't got ship else to do
at seven a game except make slope drips and I'll

(38:45):
say balls bowls. Which one of these is you? Then
make a slope drip coffee stretch and check email. That's okay,
be create a five minute smoothie bowl in whisk Macha
or six. I'm exhausted. I mean, see and see you
start your morning skincare with guasha. Oh say, I'm a

(39:05):
skincare person. So V you have one C? Cleo, would
you give me a? And then I'm in A for sure? Okay?
Number two, everybody play along with your a's, b's, and c's. Okay,
and then, um, whichever one you have the most of,
it's gonna say which platform you are? All right? Number two?

(39:28):
You find five dollars on the street, you a take
it and save it for the tip for taco tuesdays.
Be take it and pass it forward next time you're
in line, or see, take it and take a selfie
with it. I'm definitely a okay, Cleo, are you really?

(39:53):
You guys? Are we all just gonna be? Is this
group think? Is it because it's generational or is it
because we're old social media people? That might be? Um, Okay,
if I find five dollars on the street, I'm not
going to take a selfie with it. Oh I'm not
gonna lie. I might think about taking a selfie with it.
You know what I would do? I wouldn't take a selfie.

(40:14):
God help you the day I get that far into
this deep dark spiral. But I might take a picture
of the five dollar bill and then that might like
get texted to my friend or my boyfriend or my
mom like, oh my god, I look a found five dollars.
Like I'm very much a I'd rather show you than
tell you person. So I just take pictures of everything
happening in my life so I can just send that

(40:35):
to my text people instead of being like, you'll never
regress what happened, and then I have to text a fellow.
That's true. It's very quick to just take a picture. Um,
so I want to join the cool kids and save
it for a tip for taco Tuesdays. But I'm not
gonna do it. Honestly. I would probably start with ce,
take a photo, and then I might pass it forward
next time I was in line. Actually, so I'm gonna

(40:57):
go ahead and say be um, and then we have
two a's all right? Question number three. Question number three
is a great gift idea? Is A a self help book,
B sage and homemade cookies or see a gift card? Okay, yeah,

(41:22):
like it depends on the person. But I feel like
so sanded homemade cookies like homemade cookies because I wouldn't
necessarily make homemade cookies, but I would cook for somebody
as everyone know, like I love I've had your Jamaican jerk. Listen.
I'll get to that after about a whole new level.
But yeah, I'm gonna go with be be sage and
homemade cookies. Okay, I am gonna go with Oh yeah,

(41:44):
that is tough for me. I love giving people self
help books, but I feel like it comes across as
preachy and then they're like, nobody asked you for advice
about what I need to be reading to make my
life better, and then it just seems like I'm being
passive agrounds, and when I'm honestly I'm not, like I'm
trying to be like, I think you really loved this book.
So I've fallen back on recommending self help for people. Um,

(42:09):
but Vosh, you're bossy too, so I feel like that's
why you you out here giving out the books, because
you would be just trying to tell people what to
do it. But I give out books that I'm like, oh,
this worked for me, I really liked it. Yeah. I
never even thought about people thinking I might be past progressive.
Oh well, I don't careful yeah, it means the only

(42:32):
person I said. I gave a self help book to
my brother like eight years ago. It was like, how
did get your life together or right? And in hindsight,
I'm like, if I already gave you that book, you
would have been like, get out of my face. He
was like, thanks, I guess, but also, what do you
trying to say? I love my brother's dearly, their lives

(42:56):
are very much together. I was just, you know, whatever,
so I wouldn't. Yeah, I've slowed down with giving books,
even though I do like to casually recommend them. If
it's a gift. I'm leaning towards stage and homemade cookies. Um,
but at the time it takes to make the cookies
the gift card is I mean, but homemade cookies purchased
from I don't know, the custom cookie place still count

(43:17):
right right right? I like it because I like, yeah,
I think maybe stage and homemade cookies I'm gonna do
be Okay, So we've got a B. We've got Cleo
is uh and then tra Vasha is an a. Oh God,
who are we gonna end up being? I'm nervous this
is the last one. Um, A wine should be a

(43:41):
dry and red, b sitrusy and white or ce bubbly
and pink. Well knows when you are me ZERI, yes,
I you're a I'm a cleom. It depends on the day.

(44:02):
You know. You got to commit to one because I
love and I do love a clear citrusy. But right clear,
this is not lakers. I'm just saying I love a
clear why as in clear clear? Please just just your

(44:26):
fuller body clear because I've been on a white wine
tippolyt okay, so you're be citrusy and white, Travasha is
clear and trush is drying red, so am I I
don't really like dry I like fuller bodied reds. But
it's all right on the list. So all right, And

(44:46):
the revelation thing is drumroll, please mostly you. I don't wait,
I don't want to be this so like stuff about
I can't I can't steal the election. Now she's literally

(45:08):
changing her answer right now. No, I'm not, I'm not,
I promise, I'm not. I'm counting. I truly am just
telling I wanted to change my answer, but I'm not
going to. Okay, So t you had three a's, so
you're a true A with one C. So Trevasha, mostly
a's is Twitter. You are Twitter if you can believe that?
What do I even mean? Even self help book reading

(45:29):
writing um seven am alarm ringing is a slow drip
coffee stretch and check emails. I have no idea what
that has to do with Twitter. Maybe the checking emails part. Okay,
So your Twitter mostly a'ses Twitter, mostly bes is Facebook
mostly sees his Instagram. Cleo and I both have two
a's and two bees, so we're tied between Twitter and Facebook.

(45:53):
I don't feel seen by this quiz because the only
thing I go on is Instagram. The only thing I
really am is TikTok an option. It's just an old girl.
So clear you're on Twitter. I love Twitter, really, I
don't know. I feel like people just get on there

(46:13):
and start talking and talk, and then everyone's career gets canceled,
some of them as they shouldn't be it. I'm like,
why would you just set yourself up? You're just like
Twitter is like just pouring the gasoline on your life
and then walking away living your life and hoping no
one ever decides to light the match. There's ten years later, yes,
waiting to enthale. When when She's like, what would you

(46:35):
like walks away from like the lip park there? It
is iconic, iconic exactly. I can't do it. I can't
do it because people like that's just that's literally bird
feed for the haters, for the cancel people, the cancel culture.
You know, it's just like and they literally they will
go back years and years to find out your stance

(46:58):
on whatever so they can ow you up. Okay, So
what do you what's your favorite platform of all the platforms?
Why and what do you love about it? Clear? So
like mine's like a mixed bag. So um, I actually
love TikTok. I spend like probably half an hour before
bed every night watching TikTok. And I've gained the algorithm

(47:19):
to like serve me really funny, really positive stuff, which
is why I think I've fallen in love with the
with the Apple. To be honest, I actually gained the
algorithm on all of my socials. I refused to click
on things because I because we all know how it works.
You click on it, it starts to serve you more
of the good orders and if you don't want it exactly,

(47:40):
oh my god. I like I refused to drill down
and refused to click on those things. So I've been
loving TikTok, just the wholesome, funny stuff. I tried to
make a TikTok actually yesterday morning for the first time,
and I was like, I don't know how anybody does this.
I felt that was the first moment I felt super old.
Trevosh is a TikTok star. Yeah, I don't know about that,
but I do love TikTok um like I love, love

(48:03):
love it. I realize I had um like an unhealthy
obsession with a one point because yes, girl, I would
sit down and be like, let me look at a
couple of videos, get a couple of ideas for some
TikTok's that I can do, and four hours later, I'm
still content creating by I'm not doing anything, but I

(48:27):
have no ideas. I've just been scrolling on TikTok. I
mean that's like it's like a deep dark black hole
you just keep going down. Especially, like you said, clear,
if you gain the algorithm to like feed you stuff
you like it, just you can't. It's so funny because
now if you're on TikTok, they have that um this
little ad guy drops in, he like drops in He's like,

(48:49):
you've been scrolling for way too long. Take a break
the bathroom. Yes, he's like, why don't you use the bathroom,
grab a snack, blah blah blah. It's like, also, the
bigger problem is that you were on it long enough
for this little man to drop this guy and tell
you this, Okay, So clearly you're not on it long

(49:11):
enough on it before you saw him, probably like an
hour interrupted uninterrupted TikTok stuff. Yeah, it's so sad, Like
I started it, but I was just I'm so exhausted
by all of these different platforms and feeling like I
need to keep up with so many things, especially when

(49:31):
it kind of tiptoes into like your work too, where
it's like, oh, I have to constantly be creating content
to share because my life to a certain extent is
a part of like my brand or my business. And
then there's just like no boundaries. So I just don't
post on TikTok or Facebook really anymore, and barely Twitter
just because I was like, I gotta focus on one

(49:52):
thing or I'll go crazy. Um, but you guys both
use Instagram though, right, like both of you. I see
you post like occasionally definitely post TikTok's on my Instagram.
Do you guys do the same thing on Instagram? Like?
Are you likers or lurkers on Instagram? Because I feel
like some people lurk they don't like photos. Is so

(50:14):
bizarre to me. I'm posted this When people watch my
stories obsessively and then don't like any of my photos,
isn't It's so it's kind of annoying. More than that,
it's just weird to me. And it's not like it's
just random people. I mean like people am No, it's
the other way. I wouldn't notice. It's so bizarre, and

(50:36):
I'm just like, okay, well what does that mean? And
then that's when you like get in your head about
like the meaning of things on Instagram, when half the
time there probably is no. I really think there's no
meaning because I feel like I'm the opposite for you.
I hardly ever look at your stories or anyone else's stories,
but I am always commenting and liking on your photos
when I see them, so help there. I definitely watch

(51:02):
all the stories of people that I like, and I
like and comment on every single yeah like y or
my people like I'm giving smoke, like I'm not out
here trying to pretend like you get those likes I
would do look good. And the funny part is like

(51:26):
I never post on my like I posted today actually
on my grid, like I post like one a month
because I can't. Like I'm like, I can't post another
picture of my face because I'm so like, oh it's
very um it's I almost have an issue with how
vain it is to keep posting my own face. And
I'm like Instagram page for her Instagram and like I

(51:50):
love it like everybody, but then I just don't. I'm
like too much, too much, Cleo, No, this thing is
your profile. I do get what you me. No, like
I a lot of it. I started feeling we were
just taking the selfies, but then I was like no,
because these fowders are low key fire and when I
get my works done or when I get my makeup
done for work, like I like showing it off and

(52:12):
I like tagging the glam squads who do it, you know,
like they do such great work. It's more about like
the art, like showing off like damn, because I look
at this post, You're you're looking good to post itself
like a couple of little like my little swimsuit ones
that are leftovers from like some shoots, and I'm like, oh,
they're a little like, you know, a little bit of

(52:37):
the trap. I thought you'd never thought you'd never bring
it up. Segue if ever I heard one first traps.
I want to ask you, Cleo at Scere Single in
the City, like, do we post to kind of like
get some attenency, to get some d M S lit
Or do you like not look at Instagram and social
media as a way to get the guys. It's so, Cleo,

(52:59):
what's up with the The funny thing is I have,
like really, I have deep thoughts about this. So I
have a hard time with thirst traps for myself. I
love a thirst trap, okay, like I love to see
women posting about themselves, loving their bodies, doing all their things.
I have a tough time with thirst traps for me
because um of the fetishization of like the curvy body,

(53:22):
which is the body that I have, UM, and so
my whole life, the body that I have has not
been the like beauty standard just just very simple and
it only in the last few years has it been.
And so I when I post those things. I definitely
get like a lot of attention, a lot of like
male attention, UM, And I'm also I'm not very accustomed

(53:44):
to that at that level, so I sometimes get like
a little nervous about it, and then I think like, oh,
people are gonna think I'm thirsty, They're gonna think a
certain way about me. And I go through this like
the same cycle in my head every time I post
something that's a little bit risk and then at the
end of like cute, I'm cute, but it's it. I

(54:08):
go through a lot of like difficulties with that because
of because I feel sometimes really uncomfortable with the amount
of attention um, and the things that people say really
that I don't know. So let me ask you this, UM,
And I completely understand where you're coming from as far
as like fetishizing bodies like any certain body type and

(54:30):
you know, in not being aboke at one point and
now it is. But do you feel ever like, Okay, well,
there's this is an appreciation that's overdue for my body
type because it is beautiful, right, So it's like people
are just finally seeing the light, like they're just getting
hip to what I already knew and so it's not
a fetish or do you feel you're like, I don't

(54:52):
take it as a compliment, like thanks, no, thanks, you
can keep the you keep the eye emojis. No, I
definitely take it as a compliment in I think most
of the you know, it's so complex. I think I
take it as a compliment. But I just sometimes feel

(55:12):
very awkward that there's men can't control. We're not the
thought police, but that there's people that are looking at
this like that. There's dudes who are looking at this
just being like, oh, that's a fat ass, like look
at her, you know what I mean, like that, like
it's a little ichy, just like diminishing down to just
like flesh. Yeah, exactly, like bringing rounding me down to

(55:33):
like a fat ass. Interesting, that's a new perspective. It's
it's trust me. It's a it's a definitely a difficult
one sometimes. So yeah, I mean we're getting there with
the thirst traps. I feel like I've posted a few
more of them here and there, and you know, we
are here in these streets and I actually like don't

(55:55):
get a crazy amount of like men in the d
m s, which is like either, yeah, I don't like
I think there's like a few more after the entanglement situation,
but like, wait, what what does that mean? What happened
was um at the time when the entanglement August Elsina

(56:17):
Jada Pinkett's myth situation went down, I was just perusing
my Twitter on a blowly Friday night, and I've like
three followers at this point in my life, so under
all my friends. And I'm a clown by the way,
So anybody who knows me, he knows I'm like a
total clown. So I had this idea. I was like,
oh my god, let me put up an ad. And

(56:37):
so I put up this stupid ad and it's like
seeking an entanglement. And then I put about in like
capital letters. It was a tweet, and I was a
single female thirty two living in Toronto, as like, I'm smart, funny,
and I'm a little saucy um, well educated. I'm a
business owner, a freelancer living alone. I'm an excellent cook,
and I love to have fun. I was like, anyone

(56:58):
interested in an entanglement, let's connect. And then I put
up these three pictures in me just and I was like,
oh my god, this could be so funny. Like my
three followers are gonna think this is hilarious. And then
it went viral and everyone was like, oh, she's looking
for an entanglement. And then that's when like like wait,
how viralver retired? Like retweets replies how okay? So fifty

(57:22):
two fifty three point two thousand likes? Wow, Like yeah,
that's legit viral. No no, no no, there's like four million
impressions like um to like one point two million, like
total engagements, Like no, no, it was not wait, but
you're telling me all this DM engagement and not ann

(57:42):
DM that was worth responding. So here's here's the thing
about that more is not always better. So I first
have like I cannot scroll to the end of my
d ms on Twitter, not possible, And I've I've tried,
I've really tried to. Look, I don't get a lot
of d m s. I it's period. Like people assume
I'm like my tms are way more lit than they are.

(58:05):
They're not. Like even when I was like single and
just like out in these trees and like looking to
like date, hanging out, just do it all hot girl, summer,
spring fall, all of it, it's like two years ago
and um, Charlemagne shout out to posted me on my birthday,
or maybe he was just making fun of me a

(58:25):
Valentine's Day. I think that might have been what it was.
And he was like, hey, guys, my friend just posed
to this photo. She's clearly desperate because I had a
shirt that said what boyfriend question mark on it, So
I'm advertising at this point like it is what it is,
I'm owning it. I've got my cute little booty shorts

(58:47):
on and I'm holding a bouquet of roses. I think
he said that I've probably send myself the roses. You
were wrong, Charlemagne. Uh, technically the brand sent them to
me as a freaking so it wasn't a gift from
a gentleman. But I wasn't desperate enough to buy them
for myself, so at least I have that one small win.

(59:08):
But he posted it mostly just making fun of me
and also encouraging people like sliding d ms. Why not?
Clearly that was my point, my hope. When I tell
you for all the d m s that came, all
the comments, what nothing in there? And I'm like, this
does not this does not make sense. That's what I
was like, I'm gonna die alone. I'm gonna die alone

(59:30):
because in this one thirty minutes of like increased exposure, right,
You're like, surely it's a numbers game. More people into you.
At least one of them will be worth a conversation.
When I step outside and go to a bar, I
might see three four guys at night. So now we're
talking hundreds. And it was so whack. I was like,

(59:52):
I'm gonna I'm gonna be that girl. That is how
I felt. Afterwards. I was like, oh my god, like
literally four million impressions and I there's nothing. There's nothing, nothing,
not a single like worthy problems. You have to finish
looking at your d ms. You said it's gone too
far for you to open them all. You just got
to commit to that. I committed. I'm not gonna front

(01:00:16):
or open all those dms and Twitter log in and
if you want, if you have any interests in this,
I will give the whole group my Twitter log in
and everybody can take there and like narrow down these
and then we can select the d M. I am
not opposed to this that I think down that task

(01:00:37):
for the group chat. This is gonna be like our
social experiment for hot happy mess and that would be great,
That would be great. We'll flyde to the d M
s and find one that we think would be would
buy with you, and then you you're going to go
on a date with said d M or per virtual
day because we don't want you to end up with
somebody's trunk. And then this would be so funny. I

(01:00:59):
feel like this is like a thing we should really
actually do, or like we can even take like the
tweet that I did and put it on like anywhere
you could put a casting call out Zory on any
of your ship to be like, guys, Clio is trying
to here man, she said, we're gonna get this man
artist podcast. I'm about to get this man supposed to

(01:01:22):
be my year and the Ronas is out here clock blocking,
So I'm okay, we're gonna We're gonna get him for you. Okay,
so wrap it up. I want to ask you, guys,
it's just like, what do you when it comes to
our relationships with social media? Like we're all, you know,
early thirties at this point, we have been dealing with
social media since it literally was created, so we've learned

(01:01:45):
like rules to deal with this stuff, like how to
make it work for us? Is it good for connecting,
meeting new people? Maybe inspiration when it becomes unhealthy or
bad for us? Like what are some of your rules
when it comes to social media? Like do you have
timer set? Do you have I only engaged with this
type of content? Um, I don't do this or talk
to these types of people or engage people don't like,

(01:02:06):
Just what are your rules when it comes to social
in general? So for me, um, I used to be
a wake up, look at my phone type of person, um,
look at it for and go to sleep. But honestly, y'all,
COVID and having a baby and postpartum depression like changed
all of that for me. Like I got off of

(01:02:29):
Facebook for I don't know three months or something like
that was the best thing I could have ever done.
You do the detox corner made you do a little detox, Yes, exactly,
And so I'm like so much better now. But so
that was one of my things, Um that I changed,
is I stopped making that the first thing that I do.

(01:02:49):
I stopped making that the last thing that I do. Um,
And honestly, like, my soul is so much better for it.
Do you and Tyler. Have you guys talked about like
the rules of share, like do you share him a lot?
Or not? Really? Like I know because I know what
I see when you post just for our listeners, Like
do you show him a lot? Do you think about that?
Or you're just like whatever, we're married, I don't need

(01:03:10):
to post a picture of my husband all the time.
The baby. Is the baby off limits to a certain extent?
Is it just until she's older or in certain environments? Okay? Yeah,
I don't think about like should I share my husband
or should I not? If there's an opportunity and I
just and I want to, then I do. And I
feel like it's the same for him. We don't worry,
Oh am I not sharing him enough? Or am I

(01:03:32):
sharing him too much? Or whatever? That's not a thing. Um.
It is a thing for my daughter, um, because we
just want to We want to give her the opportunity
to saturate herself on the on the public web. What
I'm saying is, we don't know what social media is

(01:03:53):
gonna look like in that like in the future, and
we don't know what cycle analysis things are going to
come out or whatever that's that they're going to be
able to trace back to you know, when your parents
are posting, Yeah you post, you know what your business?

(01:04:14):
I agree, Uh, I see both sides of the coin though,
and I don't know, like I'm not a mother yet.
I think about that, like how approach, and I'm not
sure because on one side of the coin, I agree,
it's like before your kid, even like shows up as
a fully functioning adult at seventeen eighteen, they have a
pay per trail of their life that someone else can
just look up whether you want them to have a
learning that messes with me. But then on the other

(01:04:37):
side of that coin, in this day and age where
unfortunately social media to a certain extent and followers is collateral.
It's not just popularity. Sometimes it can be money. It
can be checks, it can be brand deal's sponsorships. And
when you think about, like when I think about sometimes
when I get paid for an Instagram post, and how
many hours I would have to work when I was
in high school or college to make that. Um, if

(01:05:01):
I could just post on Instagram as a college kid,
sign me up, you know, and then I got my
weekend for you to turn up and just you know,
we're a little freaking dressed me at the icebreak. I
don't gotta go work, you know, and forever one get dinner. Um.
And so I sometimes see parents who like share their kids,
and I just I'm so conflicted because I'm like, I'm

(01:05:23):
probably gonna share my kids on social and limited capacity
because I am just very I'm an open book. But
then some of these kids get these huge followings from
the time they're like one years old to five, and
so you watch them grow up, which is weird in
one sense, but you also feel loyalty. And it sounds
crazy to say you feel brand loyalty, but that's what
you're selling. We're all just presenting personal brands online. So

(01:05:46):
by the time these kids are sixteen seventeen, either they're
freaking terrors or they're somehow well adjusted and they already
have to me. It's like savings, like the way you
save money for your kid, and then they say, hey,
we're going to college to do that, and it's like, well,
mom and dad have been saving and here's your lump
sum to do what you will. It's like, well, mom
and dad have been building your following. And you want

(01:06:09):
to be a singer, you want to be an actors,
you want to be a dancer, or oh, you want
to do brand deals to help pay for college. Here's
your hundred thousand followers. I don't that. I don't know.
I'm not on either side of the fence. I just
syled torn between what to do, and I think, I mean,
I totally see what you're saying for me right now.

(01:06:31):
Like you said, I'm just sharing her in a very
limited capacity. And I guess we'll just yeah, I guess
we'll just see how it goes over the years. You know,
maybe I'll do like a stage name that sounds so Hollywood,
like I'm rolling my eyes and myself, but like a
stage name for the kids Instagram and whatever profiles, and

(01:06:52):
it's not their real name, so they grow up being
like loved and oh my god, it's cute or whatever,
people are interesting, whatever. And then if they decide, hey,
I want to keep this, you can make its your
real name, your government and just go off into the
sunset with it, or I don't want anything to do
with this. At least there's not a digital paper trail
tied to their actual first and last name. And then

(01:07:13):
that way they have the option, you know what I mean.
It's a good idea. It's crazy that we even have
to think about stuff like this. Um, do you have
cleo any like rules to the Graham like good and bad? Right, Like,
this is how I do this on social media. This
is how I get it to work for me. This
is what I don't do. So, like I said, I
definitely gained the algorithm on all platforms. So that's like

(01:07:34):
a thing that I started doing. I really started to
like on follow a lot of people, Like when I
found myself, Oh my god, when I found myself looking
at these bodies on the Internet and being like, oh,
I'd be like, actually I could get li Will just
to make my ways even smaller and already have a
stupid small waist. Then I was like whoa, whoa, wha,
wha yeah, and no shade, like, no shade if you

(01:07:57):
want to get any surgery or any of those things.
But that wasn't like a real thing that I ever
felt insecure about until I was consuming content in a
certain way. So um, that's definitely what I've been doing.
And also what I've been doing in real life, UM
is putting my phone away when I'm you know, spending
time with people or for like having you know, a

(01:08:19):
birthday party or whatever is going on, I get in,
I take my quick you know, we do like ourselfies
are like local thing at the beginning, and then my
phone actually goes in a drawer at all of the
things that we do, because what I have found is
I can't stand to be spending time with people and
everyone's like scrolling on the Instagram, you know, in the
middle of a conversation and not being fully present. So

(01:08:40):
that's what I've started to do, to just be mindful
of like why we're consuming these things and why I'm
consuming it. And I also think, um, I love a
good clap back, So dn't even get a twist that
I will come for someone's coming from my people. I'll
come for them to uh no, no questions asked. But
generally I like to keep my socialists like it and
fun and funny, like I like to laugh, and so

(01:09:03):
when I'm on my socialist on Twitter, on whatever I'm on,
I want to be laughing happy bess. All right, that
is it for this week's episode of Hot Happy Mess.
There it is, y'all. Hope you enjoyed it. Shout out
to Cleo and tra Vasha for joining me on this
week's group chat segment, you'll meet more of the girls

(01:09:24):
as the party goes on. Speaking of party, there is
no party trick this week, but you can keep the
party going on Instagram. Follow me at Zuri Hall z
U r I H A L L and follow at
Hot Happy Mess. We've got a lot of really fun
content there to just kind of keep your your week

(01:09:45):
infused with the good vibes until the next Hot Happy
Mess Monday. All right, um, and then a friendly reminder
if you want to submit, if you want to be
featured on the show, you want to ask me a question,
get some advice that I would very much prefer you
not hold me legally responsible for give up wt F
wild confession that we can't believe, but you just got
to get off your chest. Or would you like to

(01:10:06):
be featured as a real woman, real story segment? Um,
No matter what your story is, I really am committed
to sharing more of them. Uh, email us hello at
Hot Happy Mess dot com and just put what it
is you're wanting to share or ask in the subject
line and we'll check it out. All right, make sure
you guys are subscribed. Don't forget to share this episode,

(01:10:28):
Share this podcast with someone you think we'll love it
and I will see y'all next Monday by