Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning, television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Chef Marcus Samuelsson.
Interviewed centered around his book:
📘 The Rise: Black Cooks and the Soul of American Food
Here are the key highlights:
🍽️ About the Book
- Purpose: To celebrate and document the legacy, creativity, and cultural impact of Black chefs in America.
- Structure: Divided into five chapters — Next, Remix, Migration, Legacy, Origin — each exploring different aspects of Black culinary history and innovation.
- Unique Feature: Includes profiles of 40 Black chefs and food storytellers, plus a directory of 200+ Black chefs and food writers with their Instagram handles — a first-of-its-kind resource.
🌍 Cultural and Historical Themes
- Black Culinary Legacy: From enslaved cooks to modern food innovators, the book traces the deep roots and wide influence of Black food culture.
- Diaspora Influence: African, Caribbean, and Southern U.S. flavors are explored, including dishes like plantains, oxtail pepper pot, and couscous with roasted figs.
- Food as Activism: Highlights figures like Georgia Gilmore and chefs who supported civil rights movements through food.
🍴 Mouthwatering Recipes Mentioned
- Coconut Fried Chicken
- Oxtail Pepper Pot with Dumplings
- Couscous with Roasted Figs
- Sweet Wild Berry Jam
- Hot Water Cornbread (Hoecakes)
- Gumbo à la Leah Chase (without a roux!)
- Shrimp & Grits with Piri Piri Sauce
💬 Conversation Highlights
- Rashawn shares personal stories tied to food, family, and culture — from wild berry picking in Texas to his wife’s Belizean roots.
- Marcus emphasizes the importance of authorship and ownership in Black culinary contributions.
- They discuss the need for healthier eating, environmental awareness, and economic empowerment through food.
#SHMS #STRAW #BEST #AMI
Steve Harvey Morning Show Online: http://www.steveharveyfm.com/
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
I am Rushan McDonald, a host of weekly Money Making
Conversation Masterclass show. The interviews and information that this show
provides are for everyone. It's time to stop reading other
people's success stories and start living your own. If you
want to be a guest on my show, please visit
our website, Moneymaking Conversations dot com and click the be
a Guest button frist submit and information will come directly
(00:23):
to me. My next guest is Mark Chef put the
Worst Chef in front of Him Marcus Samuelson. He's an
award winning chef, restaurant tour, best selling author, TV personality, philanthropists,
and food activists. His culinary career spans over twenty five years.
Has numerous restaurants in the US and internationally, including Red Rooster, Marcus, BnB, Order,
(00:44):
Marcus Montreal, and more. His book is called The Rise
Black Cooks and the Soul of American Food. The book
is celebrating contemporary Black cooking, highlighting the food culture and
history and stories and recipes. The book covers the diverse
contributions and traditions that influenced Black cod and American culture
from African continent to the Caribbean and US. We have
(01:05):
a lot of talk about the process of creating the book,
naming it The Rise Black Cooks and the Soul of
American Food. Why did he write the book, how did
he decide this was the next book that he wanted
to do. So he's here, y'all, please welcome to the Money
Making Conversation. Chef Marcus Samuelson.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to
be here.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
My man, I'm gonna tell you something when you write
a book like that. First of all, you love food,
don't you, Chef? You just love food. Let's get that
out Let's get that out front, because when I see
when I've read past books and I've just followed your TV,
that's like a twinkle in your eye because I love
the way you dressed too, So I'm I'm a clothes man,
(01:44):
so got a look. See. I've interviewed a lot of
chefs over the years. You're probably the best dress chef
I've seen to date.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Can you take say that I also love food than
more than anybody else? Know that that is the kitchen
has give me license to travel them in my dream
all over the world, and I'm very very grateful for that.
And of course that's a black man. You got to
bring you stop with it. Every hat.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Come now, I'm dear something, chef. Give yourself your due, man,
because everybody don't have that style. You got the hats,
you got the vest, you like light colors, green, yellow,
you know, you know how to put it together, patterns, squares. See,
I were a lot of tailor clothes and so so
you are much more daring. But I just say that
(02:32):
in a in a complimentary way because I'm you know,
I wear a lot of suits.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
My neighbor, you know, my block is amazing living in Harlem.
You know this, it's such an amazing village. You know.
So my neighbor is mister Death of Dad.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Right right right.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So whatever I put on, I'm still far behind because
the man everything.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You know what I mean absolutely, Because I lived in
New York. I lived last time I was up in
New York, I was up Steve Harvey, and I was
up there from two thousand and five to two thousand
and seven, and I lived in for the thirty ninth
and first. Then previously when I was up there was
the eighty six and first. So I was all always
up into Harlem, and I've been by your restaurant. By
the way, I've not met you, but I've been by
you because when it opened, it was always it was
(03:11):
always hard to get in. It was always hard to
get in, Okay, always ad which is a compliment. This
is a compliment, Okay. And in the book that we're
about to discuss is called The Rise, Black Cooks and
the Soul of American Food. Now, I'm from Houston, Texas,
so i'd like to consider that one of the heart
of the South Cities. And I also live in Atlanta, Georgia. Atlanta, Georgia,
so so, and I've lived in Chicago. I'm just give
(03:34):
you the range of who you're talking to here, Marcus.
I've lived in Chicago four years. I lived in New
York two years. I've been living in Atlanta since two
thousand and seven. I lived in Los Angeles for fifteen years.
And I was born and raised in Houston, Texas. So
I have and I have been all over this country
in eight fantastic food. I still believe Chicago is the
best place to eat across the board. We're talking about variety.
(03:57):
Can't nobody top Chicago. That's my estimate. Now, Now, what
you think is the best place in this country to
eat before we get into your book.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Well, well, I said, I'll tell you what. There is
a couple of places that people might not have. That's
number one. But I'll tell you us is the Great
Fruits because it's very diverse. It's one of the most
diverse cities in America, and people don't know about that
because it's in Texas. I said, food, the Vietnamese food,
of course, the black food that comes out out of Houston,
(04:25):
but also amazing Indian food and Mexican Mexican American food
of course. So Houston don't from I don't great food
as well.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
But I didn't want to sound selfish. You know, people
he from Houston, he would say that, you know, but Houston,
I'm telling you something. Dining out in Houston is amazing
because of the fact that, like you said a text,
mex don't Bobby c you don't, my goodness, you know.
Then you got that just down the road in New Orleans.
So you've got that flavor coming into Houston. And then
fish all the because we're in the gold from Mexico.
(04:56):
So you got all those varieties that you're talking about,
and it is a very diverse city from from the
type of from Indian food is fantastic there and and
so so yes, you're you're right. So I will I
will put I always put a crown on my my
born city because it does deliver. But you're absolutely right.
So now we're now we're talking about this this book
(05:18):
here that you've written, that you created. And why this book, Marcus?
Why did you write this book?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Well? We had we had to because you know, just
as American history around black culture is not great, so
it's the same with food. And for me, it was
very important with the chef with a big platform, it
was important to me to connect the dogs that black
excellence when it comes to food needs to be documented
and there needs to be hats off to the incredible
(05:45):
legacy what black chefs has done before us to set
up this moment, right you have you know, even from
Thomas Jefferson's time, you know the black chefs that he
had going off commits Lee at Chase that you know,
ran her restaurant, you could still going on in Orleans
for seventy years, you know what I mean? Do some
people that are not as known, like someone like Georgia
(06:07):
Gilmore that you know was raised money for more MLK
for the movement. For example, that you have chefs like
Sufior right, that worked for chef Linda B. Johnson, and
she was the one that was convincing him that for
the Black rights to vote, for example, in nineteen sixty four.
So chefs, Black chefs have contributed in so many different ways.
(06:30):
And then of course you look at southern food, what
we call today's sole food. You can't talk about American
food without the black contribution. Think about creole cooking, right,
think about barbecue. But wherever you find in American history books,
you can't find us. And for me, it's real. It's
all of value position. We have added. First, we have
a value proposition that is not cannot be monolithic. We've
(06:53):
added so much and it was important to document it
and presented it as a way.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Wow, we're talking to I'm talking to chef Marcus Samuelson.
His book The Rise, Black Cooks and the Soul of
American Food. Now it's the book is broken up to
five chapters, correct, you said in the next the remix,
the migration, the legacy, and the origin, And like I said,
his little subtitles tied to each or like the next
(07:19):
where black food is headed. And then on the remix,
black cooking integrates many cultures, which is so true. The
migration influence of the American South where I'm from, then
the legacy all the new journeys from Africa to America.
Let's talk right there. Because the diaspora, hopefully I said
that correctly, has been a type of meal that is
(07:40):
suddenly appearing across this country. All right. I will tell
you I was first exposed to it when I used
to take my family down to Disney World in Orlando
and they had a menu that's completely in an African menu.
In fact, they have a buffet and that's what I
was exposed to, that amazing spicy, diverse menu of African food.
(08:00):
And also have another restaurant there which is one of
the restaurants, which is a menu driven restaurant as well.
So that's what I got exposed to that food. Why
has there been such an explosion of the African menu
in America?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, I think because I think a couple of things.
Internet and opportunity to link and bridge like you can. Now.
You know a lot of my chef friends they're going
to legos to learn about food. Now the way they
used to go to France or Italy. Right, that wasn't
possible fifteen twenty years ago. And I think about there's
always been a back and forth between the continent and
(08:34):
Africa and black excellent. You think about music, right, think
about how Fela and all the African American musicians used
to go to Africa, TeV everybody went to Africa to learn.
And now you have you know, afrobeats, and you have
hip hop that tech influences from that. So in music,
the link blues. Everyone knows where the blues truly come from,
for example. But guess what it wasn't just music that
(08:57):
problem like that, It was also food. So Okrah, right,
how did he get here? Of course it's history with
enslaved and slavery write very difficult history talk about. But
he also brought us the food that we have. So
just as much as the music came from Africa and
came to America as part of our black narrative, there's
also linkage with the food. You know, Okrah, your States
(09:20):
of American cooking comes from Africa, and for us it's
announced today, it's an opportunity to share, talk about it,
and take take something that was very dark and difficult
to something positive.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Well, it really is, and it's a it's an interesting taste,
a lot of colors, you know, one of my favor
I think purple ams. Come on that. Brother. I got
to tell you, I'm a food in now. I'm a
food in that. I love eating great food. Now, let's
did you say legos and I ran across that Plant
Team menu. It's in your book. I believe it's in
(09:55):
that next next chap. Now, see, I'm a guy. The
reason I got excited about that because I'm a guy.
You know, I go into the store and I buy
it in the store, just reheat it. That's what I do.
You know, boy, your brand was one of the brand's
popular brands that I always had in my house. Okay,
now I see a nice little simple recipe in your
book now, which you know, like I said, you when
(10:17):
you can When you get these recipe books, sometimes they
can be so daunting. Sometimes chef that you was like, man,
I can't cook nothing in this book. But your book
is different. And also the way you stylized your book
because you're you're honoring chefs and restaurants across the country,
and that was a unique take that I've never seen
any any any restaurant book. Because your boy my boy,
(10:39):
I wanted to say, I won't call them my boy
because I went up there. I interviewed Don't on the show,
and I told him my wife and I was going
to fly to Seattle and spent anniversary.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
And we did.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, and he was shocked. I say, hey, man, I said, look, brother, look,
I say, I go for good food. I looked online.
I said, man, you got some food that I want
to eat. And I went up to June Baby in Seattle.
And you're very familiar with Wald Jordan's Florida Bart.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Okay, love, we love eduardo'sk What we wanted to highlight, right,
I want it. I want to black. There's so many
black chefs in this country, right that are amazing, and
Edward Jordan is one of them. And so is someone
like Carla Hall, and so is someone Anisia Arrington. And
what you ending up doing when you read the book,
you can look at it a two ways. You can
(11:23):
look forward to go to Seattle and go to Eduardo's
West Point. You can look at this book as hey,
I live in Atlanta. Okay, who in Atlanta? Should I
link up with maybe your company wants to do a
corporate buyout. Okay, good. So this book not only do
I do a deeper dive on forty chefs for sword
tellers cross country, I also added another two hundred black
(11:44):
chefs and food writers in the back with their Instagram
a handle, so no one can say to me, well,
how do I find them? It's hard to find them.
It's not hard to find them. In the Rise. You can.
You can find every single one, and wherever your communities,
I can guarantee if someone is in wherever you live
in this country is an amazing local wide chef.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Now I'm hearing what you're doing because I'll follow you
a little bit there, you know, because you're great chef.
And when I saw what you're doing it, what do
you do? Because this sounds something like I would if
you need my support and social media to get the
word out because of a natural foodie and so. But
I've never heard of anybody doing what you're doing with
a national platform, kind of like a phone book of
(12:32):
restaurants that you can go and go and die. Fantastic,
And because I travel a lot, I'm very familiar with
what you were talking about.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
But that's what we need. Right, Like we're in a moment,
think about this. Most books and content that is out there,
we're not in it because it was not for us. Right,
But it's not about me. This is really about the
legacy that we leave behind and there has to be
a worse and a value system to working through. I'll
give you an accept Right when you think about brother
(13:02):
Nearest Green Green, Nearest Green is the one that came
up with the recipe for Jack Dans. He never got
one dollar for coming up with the reci people for
Jackpans now probably the most famous liquor brand in the world,
top five famous listim brand in the world. Now, imagine
if you would have gotten ten cents on the dollar
to you know, his family, his extended family, maybe there
(13:25):
would have been the Nearest gre Museum.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Et cetera.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Right, when we get written out out of the authorship
of what we create, there's no link backs to us.
And it doesn't many think a is hits economically. B
it also tells other black people that it's not there's
no value to be in food, right. You know, we
brought barbecue to this country. We came up with a
(13:49):
bourbon's recipe for this in this country. But yet we're
completely onlyten ounce out of the ownership and the authorship
of that. And so we have to stop that. We
have to support each other and find each other because
our own economy we can sustain like businesses and restaurants
by supporting each other.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I know that absolutely and at one hundred percent agree.
And that's that's why I I when I on my
show Money Making Conversations, the show about entrepreneurship, and I
get the interview CEOs and celebrities, entertainers and influencers, and
I have chefs on my show more than anything because
I know that the core of what we do in
a black community is food, good food and being able
(14:30):
to support and make you guys, really out of stars.
You know, you just stars of the of the plate.
You just stars of the kitchen, and it doesn't get
recognized enough because people kind of just see you cooking
and you, like you said earlier, there's so much more
influence that comes out of the kitchen based on who
you talk to, who you serve, and who you communicate
with that sometimes it changes the outlook of the world.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, no, it is. And it's also important because think
about food or food rituals A oh right, Like it's
important to keep those in our community right. The other
part is also health We can do better than that.
We need to know teach our community to eat healthier
but also environmental. You know what I mean. We're going
to leave leave off the world in a better place
(15:16):
than we got it. Cooking has a lot to do
with that. How do you consume food? Where do we
buy it? How can we do any agree in a context? Now?
Can we make sure for temple diabetes in our community
is going to go down?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Well?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
How we cook? How we is the answer to that.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making
Conversations Masterclass hosted by Rashaan McDonald.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Absolutely, I'm talking to a chef, Marcus Samuelson. His fantastic book,
The Rise, Black Cooks and the Soul of American Food
is who I'm talking to right now. A couple of
things from the book I said that left me mouth
water in there. Coconut fried chicken. Because I'm gonna tell
you something, brother, Coconut is my number one thing I
love to cook with. I've never ever made coconut fried chicken.
(16:11):
And then then you hit me with this right here, chef,
the oxtail pepper pot with dumplings. Is that your take
on chicken and dumplings with a spin with the oxtails?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Come exactly? You know, we don't love an ox tail.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
That I been around out the hugs and chef, when
I saw that oxtail pepper pot with dumpless that's that's good, man,
that's good. And then and then you and then see
I'm I'm from Houston, Texas. And wild berries. When I
was a kid, my parents used to take me out
(16:51):
and we just go out and picked wild berries.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Man.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
They then put some sugar on them, and boy, that
was the best dessert we ever had, just put some
sugar on some know. It was a wild bearers And brother,
I'll tell you that's a dessert right there. Now in
this book, kid, you have this sweet wold berry. Tell
us about that.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Tell us about well, you know berries. You know, I
remember going with my grandmother picking berries. But you know,
you never know what would you would get, you know,
when that's my whole point foraging was. You know, it's
not something to put on Facebook. It was actually something
you know, if you didn't pick the berries, I might
get something on my neck from my grandmother. Right, you know,
you know, berries up, just bring them back home and
(17:34):
then you make a jam and then you know, if
you were lucky a lot left over, then you can
you know, do a pie crust and make it. And
that was the best pie ever, right because as a
child you were part of that. Whether that was blueberry so,
whether that was a black currants, whatever it was, right,
and us going out foraging, we didn't know what was
going out for. We were looking with some blueberries with
(17:55):
fine work.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
And then watch snakes. Then watch for those snakes. Am
I telling little truth? Marcus? Am I telling a little truth?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Of course?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I was always scared about it. My grandmother, my grandmother,
she knew cut the head off. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
My god, this is great talking to you, right. I
hope we maintain this relationship, man, because you're you're you're
a strong spirit. And uh and uh these recipes, like
I'm gonna tell you, uh, I would call it the
meal or something, but this is something I've become. I'm
falling in love with and it's in your book. And
I never and for years I would just pass it up.
(18:35):
COO's cous.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I love that. I love it.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And you have a recipe called cous cous and roasted
fig and I love it. I grew up, I had
a fig tree in my backyard, fair tree in the backyard.
And we just going. If anybody has a fig tree,
you have figs forever. If you have a fig tree,
you're like a plump tree. It's just they're just there forever.
And so but I've never seen this mixed before, talk
about this couscous and roasted fig.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Well, you know, we got to think about it healthier
and pschool is so light and bright, you know what
I mean. And then just you can add any fruit,
like if you're in the South, you can also add
peaches to that you need, you know that nuts. That's
it's very easy, right. Sometimes we have so much great
food here and because it is so easy to cook, right,
you can soak it or just cook it for five
(19:23):
minutes and steam it and then just folding your peach,
you or your figs for example, some nuts, some beautiful
freshure and you have a snack, you have a lunch.
If you roll some chicken amber that now you have dinner.
You know, so we've got to call. You know, we
always have to sort of mix up our sides, and
that's really the key being to buy being introduced to
(19:44):
different foods. But you know, that's the key for us
to change our diet so we're not always eating the
same and.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
That's really important. And when I go through this book,
like I said, you've heard me mentioned the plantain is
the coconut fried chicken and pepper pot with dumplings. Uh,
many more recipes. I'm just I just picked out a
few of my favorites. Okay, the cous cous and roasted
fig you hear me talk about here. Here's something I
was I wanted to talk about at the Dookie Chase
that's in New Orleans. I've been there several times.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Like I said, i lived from Houston, Texas. So my
best friend who's my best man and my wedding, he's
from New Orleans. So I was always in New Orleans.
So I'm very familiar with Dukie Chase. Now lit Chase
has a gumbo recipe in now Yeah, Now, I want
to get this straight here because see I'm being honest
with you. I didn't see anything. People always here to
say the word rue. You got to have a root
(20:37):
for a gumbo. I don't know what that is. I'm
just gonna let you know. I just I cook it,
just like Liz Chase, does you know, I just put
I put it all in the pot. It all goes well.
And because my wife the other day, you know, she
was looking at the recipe. She was over there, you know,
trying to I got to get my root, right, I said,
what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yes, yes, yes, well this is the thing that both
because you got the right right. The root is really
the flower, and the butter makes of the flower, and
that you cook out and you get that a little brown, right.
For what's happened how a recipe savolved. Back in the day,
you couldn't afford a lot of vegetables and a lot
of seafood. So the way something was thicket was with
(21:17):
a thick root, which everybody could afford oil and flower.
But as today, as cooking is now, as we can
afford more things, we've actually cut down on the root
and adding more oakrah, more more vegetables, and more featfood
into it. Because the root itself doesn't really have a
great taste. So that's why the modern recipes. The root
(21:37):
is kind of cut out because the soul it is,
it's flower. But you know your white is right traditionally,
go way back, a root was definitely there for that.
I mean, you're right, is always right, right.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right, But look at it. I can't I can't waste
my time with that root O taste as I was
just like my girl Chase, I just I just put
it together just like that. She uses fish stock, I
use chicken stock. I'm gonna try to fish and chicken
stock this time. And sounded like a good thing because
the fish probably bring me a little natural salt into that,
which is really good from a natural cooking. But I
(22:14):
know we're running out of time here, but I wanted
to bring up something that growing up, man, I grew
up in the hood, and so you know, my daughter,
my father was a truck driver, and my mom used
to make hot water corn bread, okay, and to this
day I cannot get that. And then I ran across
these recipe ho cakes in your book.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yes, yes, you know. And that's the whole point about
bringing out things quick things. I mean, think about it.
So incredible our ancestor work right, that had very little,
but we still two hundred, three hundred years later, still
trading on these incredible recipes that our ancestor has ingenieus.
(22:59):
It is black cooking. You can't take it for credit.
You got to appreciate it. And the only way to
do that is to document, to share it and tell stories. Right.
So this is you were really deep in the book
when you find recipes like that and it's like we
did that, We did that, you know what I mean.
And that's what's really what this book is about. It's
about celebrated black chefs past, pressure and future.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And that's what I wanted to tell you a little
bit about me in here because I wanted to let
you know how passionate and how detailed this book is
because it hit home so many ways with me because
my wife is from Belize, Okay, so that get that
culture from there, you know what I'm saying. And so
I've been fortunate to travel the world, especially in the Caribbean,
so I'm very familiar with the food down there. You know, Uh,
(23:44):
pork is still what the coolest meat for meat for me?
Yea and so, and when I come across a book,
you know, popa as strimp and grids, the fried chicken wastle,
pair of pair of sauce. I'm going like, man, this
is a fantastic book. But on top of that, you know,
the book I'm talking about is The Eyes Black Cooks
and the Solo American Food is broken up in the
five chapters next remixes. One chapter migration is one chapter
(24:07):
legacy and Origin. But the fact that you are willing
to promote the brand of black restaurants throughout this country
and the fact that you are taking the time to
show support and strong support for these black restaurants across
the country your books. You amazing, dude. I know the
first time we've ever talked, man, and I appreciate you
and I value what you're trying to bring to the
(24:27):
game of But also let's trade numbers, man, because you
need to do a documentary. Brother, That's what I do.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yet that's what I do.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I don't know you know who I am, but that's
what I do. But yeah, he thank you for coming
on Money Making Conversation. You keep winning. This has been
another edition of Money Making Conversation Masterclass hosted by me
Rashaun McDonald. Thank you to our guests on the show
today and thank you listening to audience now. If you
want to listen to any episode I want to be
a guest on the show, visit Moneymaking Conversations dot com
(24:59):
associal media. The handle is money Making Conversation. Join us
next week and remember to always leave with your gifts.
Keep winning, mm hmm
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
I am Rushan McDonald, a host of weekly Money Making
Conversation Masterclass show. The interviews and information that this show
provides are for everyone. It's time to stop reading other
people's success stories and start living your own. If you
want to be a guest on my show, please visit
our website, Moneymaking Conversations dot com and click the be
a Guest button frist submit and information will come directly
(00:23):
to me. My next guest is Mark Chef put the
Worst Chef in front of Him Marcus Samuelson. He's an
award winning chef, restaurant tour, best selling author, TV personality, philanthropists,
and food activists. His culinary career spans over twenty five years.
Has numerous restaurants in the US and internationally, including Red Rooster, Marcus, BnB, Order,
(00:44):
Marcus Montreal, and more. His book is called The Rise
Black Cooks and the Soul of American Food. The book
is celebrating contemporary Black cooking, highlighting the food culture and
history and stories and recipes. The book covers the diverse
contributions and traditions that influenced Black cod and American culture
from African continent to the Caribbean and US. We have
(01:05):
a lot of talk about the process of creating the book,
naming it The Rise Black Cooks and the Soul of
American Food. Why did he write the book, how did
he decide this was the next book that he wanted
to do. So he's here, y'all, please welcome to the Money
Making Conversation. Chef Marcus Samuelson.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to
be here.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
My man, I'm gonna tell you something when you write
a book like that. First of all, you love food,
don't you, Chef? You just love food. Let's get that
out Let's get that out front, because when I see
when I've read past books and I've just followed your TV,
that's like a twinkle in your eye because I love
the way you dressed too, So I'm I'm a clothes man,
(01:44):
so got a look. See. I've interviewed a lot of
chefs over the years. You're probably the best dress chef
I've seen to date.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Can you take say that I also love food than
more than anybody else? Know that that is the kitchen
has give me license to travel them in my dream
all over the world, and I'm very very grateful for that.
And of course that's a black man. You got to
bring you stop with it. Every hat.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Come now, I'm dear something, chef. Give yourself your due, man,
because everybody don't have that style. You got the hats,
you got the vest, you like light colors, green, yellow,
you know, you know how to put it together, patterns, squares. See,
I were a lot of tailor clothes and so so
you are much more daring. But I just say that
(02:32):
in a in a complimentary way because I'm you know,
I wear a lot of suits.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
My neighbor, you know, my block is amazing living in Harlem.
You know this, it's such an amazing village. You know.
So my neighbor is mister Death of Dad.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Right right right.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So whatever I put on, I'm still far behind because
the man everything.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You know what I mean absolutely, Because I lived in
New York. I lived last time I was up in
New York, I was up Steve Harvey, and I was
up there from two thousand and five to two thousand
and seven, and I lived in for the thirty ninth
and first. Then previously when I was up there was
the eighty six and first. So I was all always
up into Harlem, and I've been by your restaurant. By
the way, I've not met you, but I've been by
you because when it opened, it was always it was
(03:11):
always hard to get in. It was always hard to
get in, Okay, always ad which is a compliment. This
is a compliment, Okay. And in the book that we're
about to discuss is called The Rise, Black Cooks and
the Soul of American Food. Now, I'm from Houston, Texas,
so i'd like to consider that one of the heart
of the South Cities. And I also live in Atlanta, Georgia. Atlanta, Georgia,
so so, and I've lived in Chicago. I'm just give
(03:34):
you the range of who you're talking to here, Marcus.
I've lived in Chicago four years. I lived in New
York two years. I've been living in Atlanta since two
thousand and seven. I lived in Los Angeles for fifteen years.
And I was born and raised in Houston, Texas. So
I have and I have been all over this country
in eight fantastic food. I still believe Chicago is the
best place to eat across the board. We're talking about variety.
(03:57):
Can't nobody top Chicago. That's my estimate. Now, Now, what
you think is the best place in this country to
eat before we get into your book.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Well, well, I said, I'll tell you what. There is
a couple of places that people might not have. That's
number one. But I'll tell you us is the Great
Fruits because it's very diverse. It's one of the most
diverse cities in America, and people don't know about that
because it's in Texas. I said, food, the Vietnamese food,
of course, the black food that comes out out of Houston,
(04:25):
but also amazing Indian food and Mexican Mexican American food
of course. So Houston don't from I don't great food
as well.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
But I didn't want to sound selfish. You know, people
he from Houston, he would say that, you know, but Houston,
I'm telling you something. Dining out in Houston is amazing
because of the fact that, like you said a text,
mex don't Bobby c you don't, my goodness, you know.
Then you got that just down the road in New Orleans.
So you've got that flavor coming into Houston. And then
fish all the because we're in the gold from Mexico.
(04:56):
So you got all those varieties that you're talking about,
and it is a very diverse city from from the
type of from Indian food is fantastic there and and
so so yes, you're you're right. So I will I
will put I always put a crown on my my
born city because it does deliver. But you're absolutely right.
So now we're now we're talking about this this book
(05:18):
here that you've written, that you created. And why this book, Marcus?
Why did you write this book?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Well? We had we had to because you know, just
as American history around black culture is not great, so
it's the same with food. And for me, it was
very important with the chef with a big platform, it
was important to me to connect the dogs that black
excellence when it comes to food needs to be documented
and there needs to be hats off to the incredible
(05:45):
legacy what black chefs has done before us to set
up this moment, right you have you know, even from
Thomas Jefferson's time, you know the black chefs that he
had going off commits Lee at Chase that you know,
ran her restaurant, you could still going on in Orleans
for seventy years, you know what I mean? Do some
people that are not as known, like someone like Georgia
(06:07):
Gilmore that you know was raised money for more MLK
for the movement. For example, that you have chefs like
Sufior right, that worked for chef Linda B. Johnson, and
she was the one that was convincing him that for
the Black rights to vote, for example, in nineteen sixty four.
So chefs, Black chefs have contributed in so many different ways.
(06:30):
And then of course you look at southern food, what
we call today's sole food. You can't talk about American
food without the black contribution. Think about creole cooking, right,
think about barbecue. But wherever you find in American history books,
you can't find us. And for me, it's real. It's
all of value position. We have added. First, we have
a value proposition that is not cannot be monolithic. We've
(06:53):
added so much and it was important to document it
and presented it as a way.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Wow, we're talking to I'm talking to chef Marcus Samuelson.
His book The Rise, Black Cooks and the Soul of
American Food. Now it's the book is broken up to
five chapters, correct, you said in the next the remix,
the migration, the legacy, and the origin, And like I said,
his little subtitles tied to each or like the next
(07:19):
where black food is headed. And then on the remix,
black cooking integrates many cultures, which is so true. The
migration influence of the American South where I'm from, then
the legacy all the new journeys from Africa to America.
Let's talk right there. Because the diaspora, hopefully I said
that correctly, has been a type of meal that is
(07:40):
suddenly appearing across this country. All right. I will tell
you I was first exposed to it when I used
to take my family down to Disney World in Orlando
and they had a menu that's completely in an African menu.
In fact, they have a buffet and that's what I
was exposed to, that amazing spicy, diverse menu of African food.
(08:00):
And also have another restaurant there which is one of
the restaurants, which is a menu driven restaurant as well.
So that's what I got exposed to that food. Why
has there been such an explosion of the African menu
in America?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, I think because I think a couple of things.
Internet and opportunity to link and bridge like you can. Now.
You know a lot of my chef friends they're going
to legos to learn about food. Now the way they
used to go to France or Italy. Right, that wasn't
possible fifteen twenty years ago. And I think about there's
always been a back and forth between the continent and
(08:34):
Africa and black excellent. You think about music, right, think
about how Fela and all the African American musicians used
to go to Africa, TeV everybody went to Africa to learn.
And now you have you know, afrobeats, and you have
hip hop that tech influences from that. So in music,
the link blues. Everyone knows where the blues truly come from,
for example. But guess what it wasn't just music that
(08:57):
problem like that, It was also food. So Okrah, right,
how did he get here? Of course it's history with
enslaved and slavery write very difficult history talk about. But
he also brought us the food that we have. So
just as much as the music came from Africa and
came to America as part of our black narrative, there's
also linkage with the food. You know, Okrah, your States
(09:20):
of American cooking comes from Africa, and for us it's
announced today, it's an opportunity to share, talk about it,
and take take something that was very dark and difficult
to something positive.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Well, it really is, and it's a it's an interesting taste,
a lot of colors, you know, one of my favor
I think purple ams. Come on that. Brother. I got
to tell you, I'm a food in now. I'm a
food in that. I love eating great food. Now, let's
did you say legos and I ran across that Plant
Team menu. It's in your book. I believe it's in
(09:55):
that next next chap. Now, see, I'm a guy. The
reason I got excited about that because I'm a guy.
You know, I go into the store and I buy
it in the store, just reheat it. That's what I do.
You know, boy, your brand was one of the brand's
popular brands that I always had in my house. Okay,
now I see a nice little simple recipe in your
book now, which you know, like I said, you when
(10:17):
you can When you get these recipe books, sometimes they
can be so daunting. Sometimes chef that you was like, man,
I can't cook nothing in this book. But your book
is different. And also the way you stylized your book
because you're you're honoring chefs and restaurants across the country,
and that was a unique take that I've never seen
any any any restaurant book. Because your boy my boy,
(10:39):
I wanted to say, I won't call them my boy
because I went up there. I interviewed Don't on the show,
and I told him my wife and I was going
to fly to Seattle and spent anniversary.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
And we did.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, and he was shocked. I say, hey, man, I said, look, brother, look,
I say, I go for good food. I looked online.
I said, man, you got some food that I want
to eat. And I went up to June Baby in Seattle.
And you're very familiar with Wald Jordan's Florida Bart.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Okay, love, we love eduardo'sk What we wanted to highlight, right,
I want it. I want to black. There's so many
black chefs in this country, right that are amazing, and
Edward Jordan is one of them. And so is someone
like Carla Hall, and so is someone Anisia Arrington. And
what you ending up doing when you read the book,
you can look at it a two ways. You can
(11:23):
look forward to go to Seattle and go to Eduardo's
West Point. You can look at this book as hey,
I live in Atlanta. Okay, who in Atlanta? Should I
link up with maybe your company wants to do a
corporate buyout. Okay, good. So this book not only do
I do a deeper dive on forty chefs for sword
tellers cross country, I also added another two hundred black
(11:44):
chefs and food writers in the back with their Instagram
a handle, so no one can say to me, well,
how do I find them? It's hard to find them.
It's not hard to find them. In the Rise. You can.
You can find every single one, and wherever your communities,
I can guarantee if someone is in wherever you live
in this country is an amazing local wide chef.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Now I'm hearing what you're doing because I'll follow you
a little bit there, you know, because you're great chef.
And when I saw what you're doing it, what do
you do? Because this sounds something like I would if
you need my support and social media to get the
word out because of a natural foodie and so. But
I've never heard of anybody doing what you're doing with
a national platform, kind of like a phone book of
(12:32):
restaurants that you can go and go and die. Fantastic,
And because I travel a lot, I'm very familiar with
what you were talking about.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
But that's what we need. Right, Like we're in a moment,
think about this. Most books and content that is out there,
we're not in it because it was not for us. Right,
But it's not about me. This is really about the
legacy that we leave behind and there has to be
a worse and a value system to working through. I'll
give you an accept Right when you think about brother
(13:02):
Nearest Green Green, Nearest Green is the one that came
up with the recipe for Jack Dans. He never got
one dollar for coming up with the reci people for
Jackpans now probably the most famous liquor brand in the world,
top five famous listim brand in the world. Now, imagine
if you would have gotten ten cents on the dollar
to you know, his family, his extended family, maybe there
(13:25):
would have been the Nearest gre Museum.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Et cetera.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Right, when we get written out out of the authorship
of what we create, there's no link backs to us.
And it doesn't many think a is hits economically. B
it also tells other black people that it's not there's
no value to be in food, right. You know, we
brought barbecue to this country. We came up with a
(13:49):
bourbon's recipe for this in this country. But yet we're
completely onlyten ounce out of the ownership and the authorship
of that. And so we have to stop that. We
have to support each other and find each other because
our own economy we can sustain like businesses and restaurants
by supporting each other.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I know that absolutely and at one hundred percent agree.
And that's that's why I I when I on my
show Money Making Conversations, the show about entrepreneurship, and I
get the interview CEOs and celebrities, entertainers and influencers, and
I have chefs on my show more than anything because
I know that the core of what we do in
a black community is food, good food and being able
(14:30):
to support and make you guys, really out of stars.
You know, you just stars of the of the plate.
You just stars of the kitchen, and it doesn't get
recognized enough because people kind of just see you cooking
and you, like you said earlier, there's so much more
influence that comes out of the kitchen based on who
you talk to, who you serve, and who you communicate
with that sometimes it changes the outlook of the world.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, no, it is. And it's also important because think
about food or food rituals A oh right, Like it's
important to keep those in our community right. The other
part is also health We can do better than that.
We need to know teach our community to eat healthier
but also environmental. You know what I mean. We're going
to leave leave off the world in a better place
(15:16):
than we got it. Cooking has a lot to do
with that. How do you consume food? Where do we
buy it? How can we do any agree in a context? Now?
Can we make sure for temple diabetes in our community
is going to go down?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Well?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
How we cook? How we is the answer to that.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making
Conversations Masterclass hosted by Rashaan McDonald.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Absolutely, I'm talking to a chef, Marcus Samuelson. His fantastic book,
The Rise, Black Cooks and the Soul of American Food
is who I'm talking to right now. A couple of
things from the book I said that left me mouth
water in there. Coconut fried chicken. Because I'm gonna tell
you something, brother, Coconut is my number one thing I
love to cook with. I've never ever made coconut fried chicken.
(16:11):
And then then you hit me with this right here, chef,
the oxtail pepper pot with dumplings. Is that your take
on chicken and dumplings with a spin with the oxtails?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Come exactly? You know, we don't love an ox tail.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
That I been around out the hugs and chef, when
I saw that oxtail pepper pot with dumpless that's that's good, man,
that's good. And then and then you and then see
I'm I'm from Houston, Texas. And wild berries. When I
was a kid, my parents used to take me out
(16:51):
and we just go out and picked wild berries.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Man.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
They then put some sugar on them, and boy, that
was the best dessert we ever had, just put some
sugar on some know. It was a wild bearers And brother,
I'll tell you that's a dessert right there. Now in
this book, kid, you have this sweet wold berry. Tell
us about that.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Tell us about well, you know berries. You know, I
remember going with my grandmother picking berries. But you know,
you never know what would you would get, you know,
when that's my whole point foraging was. You know, it's
not something to put on Facebook. It was actually something
you know, if you didn't pick the berries, I might
get something on my neck from my grandmother. Right, you know,
you know, berries up, just bring them back home and
(17:34):
then you make a jam and then you know, if
you were lucky a lot left over, then you can
you know, do a pie crust and make it. And
that was the best pie ever, right because as a
child you were part of that. Whether that was blueberry so,
whether that was a black currants, whatever it was, right,
and us going out foraging, we didn't know what was
going out for. We were looking with some blueberries with
(17:55):
fine work.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
And then watch snakes. Then watch for those snakes. Am
I telling little truth? Marcus? Am I telling a little truth?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Of course?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I was always scared about it. My grandmother, my grandmother,
she knew cut the head off. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
My god, this is great talking to you, right. I
hope we maintain this relationship, man, because you're you're you're
a strong spirit. And uh and uh these recipes, like
I'm gonna tell you, uh, I would call it the
meal or something, but this is something I've become. I'm
falling in love with and it's in your book. And
I never and for years I would just pass it up.
(18:35):
COO's cous.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I love that. I love it.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And you have a recipe called cous cous and roasted
fig and I love it. I grew up, I had
a fig tree in my backyard, fair tree in the backyard.
And we just going. If anybody has a fig tree,
you have figs forever. If you have a fig tree,
you're like a plump tree. It's just they're just there forever.
And so but I've never seen this mixed before, talk
about this couscous and roasted fig.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Well, you know, we got to think about it healthier
and pschool is so light and bright, you know what
I mean. And then just you can add any fruit,
like if you're in the South, you can also add
peaches to that you need, you know that nuts. That's
it's very easy, right. Sometimes we have so much great
food here and because it is so easy to cook, right,
you can soak it or just cook it for five
(19:23):
minutes and steam it and then just folding your peach,
you or your figs for example, some nuts, some beautiful
freshure and you have a snack, you have a lunch.
If you roll some chicken amber that now you have dinner.
You know, so we've got to call. You know, we
always have to sort of mix up our sides, and
that's really the key being to buy being introduced to
(19:44):
different foods. But you know, that's the key for us
to change our diet so we're not always eating the
same and.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
That's really important. And when I go through this book,
like I said, you've heard me mentioned the plantain is
the coconut fried chicken and pepper pot with dumplings. Uh,
many more recipes. I'm just I just picked out a
few of my favorites. Okay, the cous cous and roasted
fig you hear me talk about here. Here's something I
was I wanted to talk about at the Dookie Chase
that's in New Orleans. I've been there several times.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Like I said, i lived from Houston, Texas. So my
best friend who's my best man and my wedding, he's
from New Orleans. So I was always in New Orleans.
So I'm very familiar with Dukie Chase. Now lit Chase
has a gumbo recipe in now Yeah, Now, I want
to get this straight here because see I'm being honest
with you. I didn't see anything. People always here to
say the word rue. You got to have a root
(20:37):
for a gumbo. I don't know what that is. I'm
just gonna let you know. I just I cook it,
just like Liz Chase, does you know, I just put
I put it all in the pot. It all goes well.
And because my wife the other day, you know, she
was looking at the recipe. She was over there, you know,
trying to I got to get my root, right, I said,
what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yes, yes, yes, well this is the thing that both
because you got the right right. The root is really
the flower, and the butter makes of the flower, and
that you cook out and you get that a little brown, right.
For what's happened how a recipe savolved. Back in the day,
you couldn't afford a lot of vegetables and a lot
of seafood. So the way something was thicket was with
(21:17):
a thick root, which everybody could afford oil and flower.
But as today, as cooking is now, as we can
afford more things, we've actually cut down on the root
and adding more oakrah, more more vegetables, and more featfood
into it. Because the root itself doesn't really have a
great taste. So that's why the modern recipes. The root
(21:37):
is kind of cut out because the soul it is,
it's flower. But you know your white is right traditionally,
go way back, a root was definitely there for that.
I mean, you're right, is always right, right.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right, But look at it. I can't I can't waste
my time with that root O taste as I was
just like my girl Chase, I just I just put
it together just like that. She uses fish stock, I
use chicken stock. I'm gonna try to fish and chicken
stock this time. And sounded like a good thing because
the fish probably bring me a little natural salt into that,
which is really good from a natural cooking. But I
(22:14):
know we're running out of time here, but I wanted
to bring up something that growing up, man, I grew
up in the hood, and so you know, my daughter,
my father was a truck driver, and my mom used
to make hot water corn bread, okay, and to this
day I cannot get that. And then I ran across
these recipe ho cakes in your book.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yes, yes, you know. And that's the whole point about
bringing out things quick things. I mean, think about it.
So incredible our ancestor work right, that had very little,
but we still two hundred, three hundred years later, still
trading on these incredible recipes that our ancestor has ingenieus.
(22:59):
It is black cooking. You can't take it for credit.
You got to appreciate it. And the only way to
do that is to document, to share it and tell stories. Right.
So this is you were really deep in the book
when you find recipes like that and it's like we
did that, We did that, you know what I mean.
And that's what's really what this book is about. It's
about celebrated black chefs past, pressure and future.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And that's what I wanted to tell you a little
bit about me in here because I wanted to let
you know how passionate and how detailed this book is
because it hit home so many ways with me because
my wife is from Belize, Okay, so that get that
culture from there, you know what I'm saying. And so
I've been fortunate to travel the world, especially in the Caribbean,
so I'm very familiar with the food down there. You know, Uh,
(23:44):
pork is still what the coolest meat for meat for me?
Yea and so, and when I come across a book,
you know, popa as strimp and grids, the fried chicken wastle,
pair of pair of sauce. I'm going like, man, this
is a fantastic book. But on top of that, you know,
the book I'm talking about is The Eyes Black Cooks
and the Solo American Food is broken up in the
five chapters next remixes. One chapter migration is one chapter
(24:07):
legacy and Origin. But the fact that you are willing
to promote the brand of black restaurants throughout this country
and the fact that you are taking the time to
show support and strong support for these black restaurants across
the country your books. You amazing, dude. I know the
first time we've ever talked, man, and I appreciate you
and I value what you're trying to bring to the
(24:27):
game of But also let's trade numbers, man, because you
need to do a documentary. Brother, That's what I do.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yet that's what I do.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I don't know you know who I am, but that's
what I do. But yeah, he thank you for coming
on Money Making Conversation. You keep winning. This has been
another edition of Money Making Conversation Masterclass hosted by me
Rashaun McDonald. Thank you to our guests on the show
today and thank you listening to audience now. If you
want to listen to any episode I want to be
a guest on the show, visit Moneymaking Conversations dot com
(24:59):
associal media. The handle is money Making Conversation. Join us
next week and remember to always leave with your gifts.
Keep winning, mm hmm
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.