October 15, 2025 • 29 mins
Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning, television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Dr. Tonya M. Evans.
A leading authority in copyright, trademark, fintech, and technology law. Dr. Evans discusses the future of digital money, cryptocurrency, and AI in 2025, offering insights from her book Digital Money Demystified.
🔑 Key Themes & Highlights
-
Understanding Digital Money & Cryptocurrency
- Explains the evolution of digital money and how cryptocurrency is reshaping financial transactions.
- Breaks down myths surrounding crypto, including volatility, scams, and environmental impact.
-
The Role of Blockchain in Finance
- Discusses how blockchain technology ensures secure transactions and prevents fraud.
- Highlights how governments and financial institutions are adapting to decentralized finance.
-
Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Wallet
- Provides step-by-step guidance on creating a crypto wallet using platforms like Cash App, Venmo, Robinhood, and Trust Wallet.
- Emphasizes security measures to protect digital assets from cyber threats.
-
Scams & Fraud Prevention in Crypto
- Warns about common scams, including pump-and-dump schemes and fraudulent investment opportunities.
- Shares how blockchain forensics help recover stolen funds and track illicit transactions.
-
The Future of AI & Digital Finance in 2025
- Predicts how AI will enhance financial security, automate transactions, and improve investment strategies.
- Discusses the increasing shift toward a cashless society and digital banking.
📘 About Dr. Tonya M. Evans
Dr. Evans is a tenured professor at Penn State Dickinson Law and an expert in fintech and technology law. Her book, Digital Money Demystified, provides a comprehensive guide to understanding cryptocurrency and its impact on the financial landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Rushan McDonald, our host the weekly Money Making
Conversation Masterclass show. The interviews and information that this show
provides off for everyone. It's time to stop reading other
people's success stories and start living your own. If you
want to be a guest on my show, please visit
our website, Moneymakingconversations dot com and click the b a
guest button. My Guess is an author of Digital Money Demystifive.
(00:23):
She's a leading authority and copyright trademark fintech and technology law,
currently serving as tenured Professor of Law at Penn State
Dickerson Law. She provides a look at how cryptocurrency will
change money in general and what is expected in our
year twenty twenty five. Please welcome to Money Making Conversations Masterclass,
doctor Tanya m Evans. How you doing, doctor.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Tanya, I am doing great. Thank you so much for
having me on. I think this is a fantastic way
to start the new year.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, new year, they're gonna listen to this in June July,
because it's twenty twenty five. We got to get people
money right because so many ways we are basically on
the attack when it comes to information. The right information.
You know, I get emails all the time, I get
text all the time. Talk about this short term, long
this long term, you can get it. Just give me
(01:13):
information right now, and I give you one hundred thousand dollars.
They tell you a by crypto, they talk about bigcom
and I thought it was very important to bring a
person of your knowledge and your history owned the show
to talk about money in twenty twenty five. So let's
start off and talk about your book, Digital Money Demystified.
What is that about? Why did you write it?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I wrote, Essentially, the book is about exploring the top
ten myths that folks believe that keep them separated from
the development of this new economy. And each and every
one of them is something that I believed myself. Because
I actually can't believe the work that I'm doing right now.
I'm one of the biggest skeptics. I started in twenty
(01:58):
seventeen not fully appreciating or understanding what this magic internet
money is. I didn't know where it is, I don't
know where it came from. I love dollars, and I
have to really sit down and explore, even if at
the time I didn't know what it meant for me personally.
I had a special responsibility as a law professor, as
(02:20):
an academic, as a lifelong learner to at least understand
how things were changing and to separate fact from fiction.
So I explore volatility, I explore the impact on the environment.
I explore whether it's just to scam, it being all
of crypto just to scam only for teching crypto bros.
(02:43):
You know what were the myths the misperceptions. Sometimes things
are intentionally injected into the mainstream to separate us, and
then some things there's a kernel of truth about perhaps
volatility or scam, etc. I needed to separate fact from
fiction so that we can make good choices myself personally
(03:04):
and my family, but also more importantly, my community. So
that's the origin of the book. And it's a simple plain,
no tech jargon. In fact, it has an extensive glossary
of terms because we have to understand the language of
the new economy so that we can make good decisions
as well.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Cool. So we're talking about the Digital Money Demystified. Where
could it get that book?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
If you can get it at Digital Money Demystified dot com.
This Digital Money Demystified dot Com.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Awesome now when we talk about digital money, Okay, what
exactly is digital money? Because you also say the magical
magic Internet money. So's we got magic Internet money, and
then we have digital money. Talk to us about digital
money that you're demystified in your book.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
The evolution of my understanding really took a wonderful turn
in twenty eighteen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen as I built
the first blockchain crypto on law online certificate program and
started building out my own coaching, my content, and my
courses to get at the point that you're making what
(04:12):
is digital money? And I even want to be more
specific than that, cryptographically secured money. And let's break that
down even further, because when people see the term or
hear the term cryptocurrency, they often focus on that first
part crypto or cry It sounds like cryptic, It sounds
like something that's nefarious and some type of dark money situation.
(04:35):
And the crypto in cryptocurrency actually refers to the method
of encrypting data to actually protect digital assets. And so
in order to really unpack that, I'm a gen xer.
Perhaps they're a number of us who are listening, or
boomers or even zenials scans the gamut. But I remember
in the late nineties when we were using peer to
(04:57):
peer applications like naps Rockster to exchange media files. Right,
people were sending MP three files or MP four files.
I'm also an intellectual property attorney and professor, so a
lot of that was copyright infringement. You can have me
back on the show to have a separate conversation about IP.
(05:18):
But let's get curious about that technology, because it's the
same peer to peer transfer that goes beyond media files,
and now we can actually use the same type of
technology to exchange value. And when I started to unpack that,
because so much of what we do with money is
actually just ones and zeros of computer software moving things,
(05:41):
moving information from one record or ledger as we call
them more specifically, to another. If I sent you one
hundred dollars with zell, that would I would not actually
hand you one hundred dollars bill. My bank would reconcile
that and take one hundred dollars off of my record
or my ledge, and your bank would add it to yours.
(06:02):
So there we spend so little time actually touching physical money.
We saw that certainly in a pronounced way in the
midst of the pandemic. So the idea of having a
peer to peer method of exchanging value is essentially what
cryptocurrency is. But the final point here is remember if
I had an MP three file and I was sending
(06:24):
it to you through Napster or something like that, I
would still have a perfect digital copy and now you
would as well. There was no exhaustion. And so this
idea of the double spend problem is what cryptocurrency. The
first being Bitcoin in January of two thousand and nine,
was intended to reconcile that we couldn't have a financial system,
(06:45):
as good as it may sound, to remove the middle
person or the bank or the government or corporation, we
can't do that if we're duplicating because for obvious reasons
with money. So when bitcoin came on the scene back
in January of two thousand and nine, the idea was
to have a method of encryption that allowed people to
(07:06):
exchange value directly, but also to not have the double
spind problem. And that's essentially what cryptocurrency does.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Now. Oh one thing that I wanted to make sure
that I understood and walked away from the show is
that you talk about how to set up a cryptocurrency wallet,
because no one has ever come on my show and
told my audience and told me how to set it up.
So please tell us how one can set up a
crypto currency wallet.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
There are a couple of different a few different types
of wallet, so I want to be let's start at
a high level with the different types. If you are creating,
basically it would be an account. It's roughly equivalent to
a bank account. But I use a strong caveat there
because these systems and the methods of securing your cryptocurrency
(07:55):
are not banks. They are not banks, they're not FDIC
and shifture, right, So let's set that apart and exchange
or place where you would set up and purchase crypto
or exchange one type of crypto for another. The operative
word is exchange. It's meant and intended to exchange different
types of either fiat currency which is government issue currency,
(08:18):
or crypto. So we start there. The way that you
manage your account and send and receive or trade is
with the rough equivalent of a wallet. It's a bit
of a misnomer because again we're dealing with ones and
zeros and software and not physical money. But There are
essentially warm or hot wallets, and that means something that
(08:40):
is connected to the internet basically at all times. What
does that mean? An app on your phone or a
browser that has an extension that allows you to engage.
Anything that is connected to the internet more often than
it is not would be considered a warm or hot wallet.
And they have their uses, But I wouldn't store large
(09:01):
sums of cryptocurrency or anything that you and that's relative, right,
anything that you would really cry or maybe jump off
a bridge if you lost it, I wouldn't recommend keeping
in a warm or hot wallet. The second type is
called cold storage. Those tend to be physical hardware devices
like Ledger or a treasure and they are not connected
(09:22):
unless th until you connect to the internet, and it's
a safer way to store. So we start there simply,
if you're just getting in, just kicking the tires, you
want to buy twenty five one hundred dollars worth just
to get in and start to make sure the water's warm,
you might start with a warm wallet. And so let's
talk about the ways that people can actually purchase. One
(09:45):
of the ways is on a system that you already trust,
cash app, venmo PayPal, Robinhood. These are all and certainly Coinbase,
which is kind of a new kid on the block,
but certainly a trusted platform where you can purchase and
set up your own account within that system. The other
(10:05):
caveat there is that if you have it on a
cash ship or a Venmo or Coinbase or Robinhood, those
services actually control your money. The idea is to have
your own separate wallet or account. One thing that I use,
I'm not sponsored by them, but I don't want to
gatekeep this information is a simple wallet like trust wallet.
(10:28):
The trust wallet is very easy to set up. If
you've set up an app on your phone before, you
absolutely can set up a trust wallet, And actually the
user experience in the user interface or UIUX is quite
a bit better than it was when I first started.
It's like setting up any bank account or any other account.
Give a certain amount of information you want to set
(10:51):
it up with an email. They will take you through
a process of what we call know your Customer or
kyc AML know your customer Anti money laundering. So you're
giving a certain amount of information. But you can absolutely
buy bitcoin and some other cryptocurrencies with cash app, with Venmo,
with things that you already use and then also set
up your own wallet so that you store it yourself
(11:14):
and that you have control over your own crypto.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Wow. So that is setting it up. So you're saying
that cash app words with names we've heard before, Robert Hood, Vemo,
and then another one you brought up I had not
heard of before was trust Wallet and that's an app.
All these are very using frontly ways you can set
up your crypto currency wallet. I'm gonna speaking with the
doctor Tanya m Evans her book Digital Money Demestified. Is
(11:41):
why I brought on the show because we're trying to
find out about what twenty twenty five looks like for
our money and how we can use our money because
right now life has changed. Having cash in your pocket
nowadays doesn't mean anything. There are a lot of places
you can go in and get food to go, cash
on credit only, credit card on the credit card on.
So you're being pushed in this direction, whether you want
to or not, into a cashless society, which is a
(12:04):
digital society, which means that when you whether you're using
your debit card, which means that which is a form
of what she's talking about, you go there. They take
money from your account, moves from that ledger or whatever
you bought there. Now it's in that ledger, transaction complete.
So I'm just trying to make a lot of this
common sense to everybody to say that you're really operating
(12:26):
in this cryptocurrency, in this digital money world. Anyway. Now
it's time for you to take the giant leap and
find out how you can make money in this new
world of cryptocurrency. But in any new world, doctor Evan
comes scams. Absolutely, scams talk to us about scams.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
It's facinitatying when you think the first use case for
the Internet that was, you know, was before e commerce.
Certainly we were happy to be able to send electronic mail,
the type of thing that people actually don't even want
to open at this point, but it was very exciting
at the time. I remember Brian Gumbull and Katie Kirk
trying to make sense of the AT symbol and everybody
(13:13):
was in an uproar as well. The first use case
for blockchain. We actually haven't talked about blockchain as well,
and I'll link this to the scam conversation conversation, but
a blockchain really is just a digital record of transactions
and balances. In the first use case for that type
of technology was crypto. Anytime you have a honeypot of information,
(13:40):
it will bring all of these scammers to the yard.
For example, when electronic mail first came out, we all
remember the time where we would receive emails that said,
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today,
and I am the king of Zamunda, and if you
send me your bank account, I will send you ten
thousand dollars. We didn't throw out an email. We did
(14:00):
certainly didn't throughout the Internet, and this next iteration of
the Internet that doesn't just move information, but that now
moves value is an incredible honeypot that every scammer wants
to have access to. The underlying asset is not a scam.
People will use anything to scam people if they think
they can quickly get money. One of the myths that
(14:24):
I intended to demystify and in fact did in the
book is focused on this idea of scamming and sometimes
somehow the underlying assets would be a scam. No, but
anytime you have value, you will know. In my phone
every day we get texts all the time where people
are trying to scam us. The number one asset that
(14:45):
is used to scam and the number one preferred asset
or currency that is used by scammers without question around
the world is the United States dollar because around the
world it is the global currency reserve or the asset
that people and countries keep in reserve. Even though that
is changing over time. It'll be interesting to have this
(15:06):
conversation in twenty years, but the global reserve currency today
is the dollar that is strongly preferred. And then the
last point here, and the reason that I brought up
blockchain is because the digital record of transactions and balances
for these public cryptocurrencies is public facing. There is no intermediary,
(15:28):
there is no one who can cook the books, and
you can go to any blockchain, explore and see every
single transaction in real time hitting the system. It is
a terrible place to conduct criminal activity. Why because there
is no other technology on the planet that is better
at showing the show me the money, and show me
(15:50):
the money trail. This is the best technology to do that.
So what people don't know is oftentimes the Department of
Justice here in the United States works with companies like
chainal and other companies that do blockchain forensics and actually
recover a lot of the money that we hear sensationalized
about being stolen, A lot of that is actually recovered.
(16:10):
We don't see those recoveries in the headlines, but it's
important to note that as well.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making
Conversations Masterclass, hosted by Rashaan MacDonald. Money Making Conversations Masterclass
continues online at Moneymakingconversations dot com and follow money Making
(16:38):
Conversations Masterclass on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
At I speak with doctor Tonya and Evans her book
Digital Money domestified a young lady and I asked her
you to talk on this. The YouTuber became very fairy
haw Tall. I believe that was the name she goes by.
She dropped a cryptocurrency. It blew up evaluations in the millions,
(17:03):
then it dropped. She disappeared for two weeks, then came
back with an apology. Now, how's that not hot tour
or whatever. She's scamming people out there? Okay, hoktah, he said,
hot Tour. I don't know she's out there she's a
YouTuber HD. Let's go with HT. There's a lot of
(17:24):
people lost money with HT. She disappeared for two weeks,
then she came back online apologizing how this is this
a scam or was she just misled by people and
taking advantage of talk to us about HT.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Well, I'm sure her attorney would say, my client has
no worth, no further comment. Uh And time will tell
because she's you know, there's a case against her in
the Eastern District of New York specifically for this, and
she's not the only one. But for those who don't
know the hoctaw or you got guess, you can go
on TikTok and see all for videos as well. But
(18:03):
her name is Haley Welch, will go with that because
I can actually pronounce that. And she promoted a cryptotoken.
It was HTWK for hawk or whatever, and before the
launch of the token there was a lot of hype
and I want to you know, there's a name for
(18:24):
this type of thing, and we call it pump and dump.
To your question, I don't know if it's a scam
or she didn't know what she was doing, or a
little bit of both. So let's kind of put that
to the side, because there are a number of celebrities
who've gotten in hot water about something like this. But
she goes on to social media and she talks, you know,
about the fact that this has this value and she
(18:47):
is promoting it. Evidently she also had an interest, you know,
not just as you know, a celebrity promoter. Because of
course commercials are not illegal, but there are very specific
secure laws that govern assets that are deemed to be securities.
What does that mean? Basically, you are giving someone else
(19:08):
money and they are promising you that they will use
their own efforts to give you a return on your investment.
That comes from a Supreme Court case called the Howie case,
and it is something that the Securities in Exchange Commission
uses in order to determine whether or not something as
a security, and if it is, it must be registered
(19:29):
with the Securities in Exchange Commission or fall into an exemption.
Evidently they couldn't bother themselves with the pesky little details
of securities law and probably had got really really bad advice. Though,
as you said, she comes back on social she says
that she's fully cooperating. You know, her attorneys are working
to assist et cetera, et cetera, everything that every good
(19:49):
lawyer would say, and her commitment to uncovering the truth.
I suspect she probably didn't know what she was doing.
People want, you know, this idea of a quick buck
as well well. But you know, the market impact is huge.
It goes up to almost five hundred million, and then
you know, shortly after I think it's like at the
beginning of December, and then plummets right over ninety percent.
(20:12):
And it's the pump and dump. There's a crash where
you get a lot of hype. They own tokens, everybody's hyped,
and they drive up the price. The people who are
the issuers sell it and then the bottom falls out.
It's kind of you know, and we've seen that before.
That is very illegal. That has happened to Kim Kardashian,
Floyd Mayweather, DJ Khaled, even Tom Brady and justsell Bunching,
(20:36):
Matt Damon. There have been a number of people who've
been caught up in this type of issue. And so
it's a cautionary tale and you know, dovetails off of
what we talked about before. In terms of scams, you
have to be extremely careful listening to celebrities who are
promoting financial products, and if you're a celebrity, you want
to pump the brakes because all money ain't good money,
(20:57):
especially when you don't know what you're doing, and that
quad where you don't know that you don't know will
get you in very serious trouble, not just with your
fan base, but clearly with the government.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Well, with that being said, Dr Evant, please tell people
how they find your book.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Absolutely, you can go to Digital Money Demystified dot com.
Not only can you purchase the books because an interesting
power move that I did recently, I bought the rights
back to my book so that I could sell it exclusively.
Used to be on you know wherever books were sold,
and recently I reclaimed my rights so that I could
double down on my community and do with the book
(21:34):
that I what I wanted to do, and do it
in a way that promotes. So you can go directly
to my website, my mom and my team they actually
fulfill do all order fulfillments and I signed those books
as well. So Digital Money Demystified is where you start
this journey. You can do this and I can help.
So so let's go slowly. But let's go.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Well, it's great because, like you said, Norserm they just
spending six billion dollars to buy back there brand. So
a lot of corporations say, hey, we can do a
better job instead of trying to make the money. Like
you said earlier, not all money is good money, and
controlling your voice, controlling your brand and the direction you
want to take is better if you own the rights
and the direction you want to take your brand and
(22:15):
your legacy. So I commend you for that. Now. You know,
we always talk about investments, dr evans and gifts, and
you know, I think we're beyond just I remember when
I was growing up, my parents bought me a savings bond,
you know, a twenty five dollars savings bond when I
was five years old. Now, can you use these cryptos
(22:35):
to create gifts that you can give to people? And
how does that work you?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Let's also I meant to highlight earlier when we're talking
about cryptocurrency, it's also a bit of a misnomer because
crypto assets here in the United States are taxed as
a capital asset. So what has aspects certainly of crypto
excuse me, of currencies like the medium of exchange unit
of and ca right, but also as a store of value,
(23:02):
and so for tax purposes and for investment purposes, and
particularly in the United States, we are more likely to
use crypto as an investment over the daily exchange a
medium of account. Although you certainly could, you will not
be able to pry my bitcoin out of my cold
dead hands. But I'm happy to use other types of
(23:24):
cryptocurrency for exchange. But your point is a good one
in terms of how can you use this asset, not
just or in addition to the day to day exchange.
About building value over time and what I call indestructible wealth.
The reason I say indestructible wealth is when we think
of in black communities, for example, we've built extraordinary wealth
(23:46):
over times, particularly in the post enslavement era. And you
think about the greenwoods of the world. We know of greenwood,
but there are hundreds of other places where we built
value only for it to be bombed or to destroyed
or stolen. It makes me think of the Freedman's bank
that under the auspices of the government, how much we
(24:07):
have lost over time. The idea of being able to
have access to indestructible wealth that can't be confiscated, can't
be destroyed, is something we really need to pay attention to,
and that means in addition to the daily use and
accumulation of these crypto acids in general, probably bitcoin in
particulars is not financial or legal advice, but this is
(24:29):
an educational opportunity to learn more because yes, you can gift.
In fact, not only can you gift this asset, you
can also build it into your estate plan. There are
opportunities with bitcoin iras. There are now bitcoin exchange traded funds,
Eleven of them were introduced in the beginning of this
(24:49):
year from companies like black Rock and Fidelity. If our
government is also looking to have a bitcoin strategic reserve.
For all of these reasons, we need to understand and
how we leverage this in our day to day and
in our long term strategy for retirement, for estate planning,
and for gifting to make sure that others are started
(25:12):
off well. There are some caveats with that because it
is to your earlier point. There can be challenges in
setting this up and identifying where it's located, so you
would want to include instructions on how others can access it,
because if they can't access the gift, if they don't
understand the gift, then it's useless. And so you want
(25:33):
to empower those you are gifting with also the information
so that they continue the trajectory of investment and growth
and wealth transfer.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Cool, well, it's great. I want to tell you that
I like to make this a series with you once
a quarter because change things change, And then I don't
want anybody to hear an interview that we're doing now
here six months later, nine months later, think that is
the interview that was be all because information giving out
I can adjust and can change injurate, go up and
down and things like that. But most importantly, just getting
(26:06):
an expert on my show to talk about something that
drives me. I want to participate in cryptocurrency in twenty
twenty five. Now I know how to set up a wallet.
I have a clear understanding that I'm to go and
examine this trust wallet app and see how that's set up.
And like you said, you already told me some names,
cash app, robin Hood, Demo, these are names I'm very
(26:26):
familiar with in the banking industry, in the stock buying industry,
And like I said, it's a change, and it's a
change that we all have to participate as we close
Dctor Tanya m Evans, anything you want to add, You
want to tell my audience that I may have missed
out on that. You want to make sure they hear
out of your brand and your legacy of information.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Absolutely, there are a number of different ways to engage
and everybody will start at a different level, or you're
at a different age and stage. So one, I want
to encourage you to give your of space and grace
as well. You do not have to be a technologist
or a financial guru, but I don't want the impediment
of the new gatekeeper is now your knowledge or lack thereof.
(27:13):
There's no one that keeps us from this. But again,
what we don't know, that we don't know makes us
susceptible to scams. It will be easily confused, we will
be left behind. This is one of those eras in
life where you can make a sizeable jump and kind
of close this wealth gap if you get ahead of
the curve. It's not too late. I know what the
(27:33):
price of bitcoin is.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I'm so excited, but it's nowhere near done yet. You
can imagine the early days of the New York Stock
Exchange and other exchanges. They were rough, they were volatile,
they were untested, they had no history. And now we
look at the SMP, for example, or the NIECE or
the NASDAC and it's mind blowing. Start where you are.
(27:58):
Start now you can read I'm a Forbes contributor, so
I have a roughly weekly I have weekly information that
I share there with my articles. So at Forbes dot com,
look up my name and certainly go to Proftanyaevans dot
com professor and you can get resources, courses, coaching, consulting
(28:20):
and speaking engagements. All of that information is there. Do something.
Start where you are and let's go and grow together.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Cool. I want to thank you for coming on Money
Making Conversations Masterclass. I've been educated and my audience will
grow from this and information this is while we do
this show. Thank you again, doctor Tanya M. Evans.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
This has been another edition of Money Making Conversation Masterclass
hosted by me Rashaun McDonald. Thank you to our guests
on the show today, and thank you. I'll listen to
your audience now if you want to listen to any
episode I want to be a guest on the show,
visit Moneymakingconversations dot com. Our social media handle is oney
Making Conversation. Join us next week and remember to always
(29:03):
leave with your gifts. Keep winning.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Mm hmmm
Hi, I'm Rushan McDonald, our host the weekly Money Making
Conversation Masterclass show. The interviews and information that this show
provides off for everyone. It's time to stop reading other
people's success stories and start living your own. If you
want to be a guest on my show, please visit
our website, Moneymakingconversations dot com and click the b a
guest button. My Guess is an author of Digital Money Demystifive.
(00:23):
She's a leading authority and copyright trademark fintech and technology law,
currently serving as tenured Professor of Law at Penn State
Dickerson Law. She provides a look at how cryptocurrency will
change money in general and what is expected in our
year twenty twenty five. Please welcome to Money Making Conversations Masterclass,
doctor Tanya m Evans. How you doing, doctor.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Tanya, I am doing great. Thank you so much for
having me on. I think this is a fantastic way
to start the new year.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, new year, they're gonna listen to this in June July,
because it's twenty twenty five. We got to get people
money right because so many ways we are basically on
the attack when it comes to information. The right information.
You know, I get emails all the time, I get
text all the time. Talk about this short term, long
this long term, you can get it. Just give me
(01:13):
information right now, and I give you one hundred thousand dollars.
They tell you a by crypto, they talk about bigcom
and I thought it was very important to bring a
person of your knowledge and your history owned the show
to talk about money in twenty twenty five. So let's
start off and talk about your book, Digital Money Demystified.
What is that about? Why did you write it?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I wrote, Essentially, the book is about exploring the top
ten myths that folks believe that keep them separated from
the development of this new economy. And each and every
one of them is something that I believed myself. Because
I actually can't believe the work that I'm doing right now.
I'm one of the biggest skeptics. I started in twenty
(01:58):
seventeen not fully appreciating or understanding what this magic internet
money is. I didn't know where it is, I don't
know where it came from. I love dollars, and I
have to really sit down and explore, even if at
the time I didn't know what it meant for me personally.
I had a special responsibility as a law professor, as
(02:20):
an academic, as a lifelong learner to at least understand
how things were changing and to separate fact from fiction.
So I explore volatility, I explore the impact on the environment.
I explore whether it's just to scam, it being all
of crypto just to scam only for teching crypto bros.
(02:43):
You know what were the myths the misperceptions. Sometimes things
are intentionally injected into the mainstream to separate us, and
then some things there's a kernel of truth about perhaps
volatility or scam, etc. I needed to separate fact from
fiction so that we can make good choices myself personally
(03:04):
and my family, but also more importantly, my community. So
that's the origin of the book. And it's a simple plain,
no tech jargon. In fact, it has an extensive glossary
of terms because we have to understand the language of
the new economy so that we can make good decisions
as well.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Cool. So we're talking about the Digital Money Demystified. Where
could it get that book?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
If you can get it at Digital Money Demystified dot com.
This Digital Money Demystified dot Com.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Awesome now when we talk about digital money, Okay, what
exactly is digital money? Because you also say the magical
magic Internet money. So's we got magic Internet money, and
then we have digital money. Talk to us about digital
money that you're demystified in your book.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
The evolution of my understanding really took a wonderful turn
in twenty eighteen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen as I built
the first blockchain crypto on law online certificate program and
started building out my own coaching, my content, and my
courses to get at the point that you're making what
(04:12):
is digital money? And I even want to be more
specific than that, cryptographically secured money. And let's break that
down even further, because when people see the term or
hear the term cryptocurrency, they often focus on that first
part crypto or cry It sounds like cryptic, It sounds
like something that's nefarious and some type of dark money situation.
(04:35):
And the crypto in cryptocurrency actually refers to the method
of encrypting data to actually protect digital assets. And so
in order to really unpack that, I'm a gen xer.
Perhaps they're a number of us who are listening, or
boomers or even zenials scans the gamut. But I remember
in the late nineties when we were using peer to
(04:57):
peer applications like naps Rockster to exchange media files. Right,
people were sending MP three files or MP four files.
I'm also an intellectual property attorney and professor, so a
lot of that was copyright infringement. You can have me
back on the show to have a separate conversation about IP.
(05:18):
But let's get curious about that technology, because it's the
same peer to peer transfer that goes beyond media files,
and now we can actually use the same type of
technology to exchange value. And when I started to unpack that,
because so much of what we do with money is
actually just ones and zeros of computer software moving things,
(05:41):
moving information from one record or ledger as we call
them more specifically, to another. If I sent you one
hundred dollars with zell, that would I would not actually
hand you one hundred dollars bill. My bank would reconcile
that and take one hundred dollars off of my record
or my ledge, and your bank would add it to yours.
(06:02):
So there we spend so little time actually touching physical money.
We saw that certainly in a pronounced way in the
midst of the pandemic. So the idea of having a
peer to peer method of exchanging value is essentially what
cryptocurrency is. But the final point here is remember if
I had an MP three file and I was sending
(06:24):
it to you through Napster or something like that, I
would still have a perfect digital copy and now you
would as well. There was no exhaustion. And so this
idea of the double spend problem is what cryptocurrency. The
first being Bitcoin in January of two thousand and nine,
was intended to reconcile that we couldn't have a financial system,
(06:45):
as good as it may sound, to remove the middle
person or the bank or the government or corporation, we
can't do that if we're duplicating because for obvious reasons
with money. So when bitcoin came on the scene back
in January of two thousand and nine, the idea was
to have a method of encryption that allowed people to
(07:06):
exchange value directly, but also to not have the double
spind problem. And that's essentially what cryptocurrency does.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Now. Oh one thing that I wanted to make sure
that I understood and walked away from the show is
that you talk about how to set up a cryptocurrency wallet,
because no one has ever come on my show and
told my audience and told me how to set it up.
So please tell us how one can set up a
crypto currency wallet.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
There are a couple of different a few different types
of wallet, so I want to be let's start at
a high level with the different types. If you are creating,
basically it would be an account. It's roughly equivalent to
a bank account. But I use a strong caveat there
because these systems and the methods of securing your cryptocurrency
(07:55):
are not banks. They are not banks, they're not FDIC
and shifture, right, So let's set that apart and exchange
or place where you would set up and purchase crypto
or exchange one type of crypto for another. The operative
word is exchange. It's meant and intended to exchange different
types of either fiat currency which is government issue currency,
(08:18):
or crypto. So we start there. The way that you
manage your account and send and receive or trade is
with the rough equivalent of a wallet. It's a bit
of a misnomer because again we're dealing with ones and
zeros and software and not physical money. But There are
essentially warm or hot wallets, and that means something that
(08:40):
is connected to the internet basically at all times. What
does that mean? An app on your phone or a
browser that has an extension that allows you to engage.
Anything that is connected to the internet more often than
it is not would be considered a warm or hot wallet.
And they have their uses, But I wouldn't store large
(09:01):
sums of cryptocurrency or anything that you and that's relative, right,
anything that you would really cry or maybe jump off
a bridge if you lost it, I wouldn't recommend keeping
in a warm or hot wallet. The second type is
called cold storage. Those tend to be physical hardware devices
like Ledger or a treasure and they are not connected
(09:22):
unless th until you connect to the internet, and it's
a safer way to store. So we start there simply,
if you're just getting in, just kicking the tires, you
want to buy twenty five one hundred dollars worth just
to get in and start to make sure the water's warm,
you might start with a warm wallet. And so let's
talk about the ways that people can actually purchase. One
(09:45):
of the ways is on a system that you already trust,
cash app, venmo PayPal, Robinhood. These are all and certainly Coinbase,
which is kind of a new kid on the block,
but certainly a trusted platform where you can purchase and
set up your own account within that system. The other
(10:05):
caveat there is that if you have it on a
cash ship or a Venmo or Coinbase or Robinhood, those
services actually control your money. The idea is to have
your own separate wallet or account. One thing that I use,
I'm not sponsored by them, but I don't want to
gatekeep this information is a simple wallet like trust wallet.
(10:28):
The trust wallet is very easy to set up. If
you've set up an app on your phone before, you
absolutely can set up a trust wallet, And actually the
user experience in the user interface or UIUX is quite
a bit better than it was when I first started.
It's like setting up any bank account or any other account.
Give a certain amount of information you want to set
(10:51):
it up with an email. They will take you through
a process of what we call know your Customer or
kyc AML know your customer Anti money laundering. So you're
giving a certain amount of information. But you can absolutely
buy bitcoin and some other cryptocurrencies with cash app, with Venmo,
with things that you already use and then also set
up your own wallet so that you store it yourself
(11:14):
and that you have control over your own crypto.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Wow. So that is setting it up. So you're saying
that cash app words with names we've heard before, Robert Hood, Vemo,
and then another one you brought up I had not
heard of before was trust Wallet and that's an app.
All these are very using frontly ways you can set
up your crypto currency wallet. I'm gonna speaking with the
doctor Tanya m Evans her book Digital Money Demestified. Is
(11:41):
why I brought on the show because we're trying to
find out about what twenty twenty five looks like for
our money and how we can use our money because
right now life has changed. Having cash in your pocket
nowadays doesn't mean anything. There are a lot of places
you can go in and get food to go, cash
on credit only, credit card on the credit card on.
So you're being pushed in this direction, whether you want
to or not, into a cashless society, which is a
(12:04):
digital society, which means that when you whether you're using
your debit card, which means that which is a form
of what she's talking about, you go there. They take
money from your account, moves from that ledger or whatever
you bought there. Now it's in that ledger, transaction complete.
So I'm just trying to make a lot of this
common sense to everybody to say that you're really operating
(12:26):
in this cryptocurrency, in this digital money world. Anyway. Now
it's time for you to take the giant leap and
find out how you can make money in this new
world of cryptocurrency. But in any new world, doctor Evan
comes scams. Absolutely, scams talk to us about scams.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
It's facinitatying when you think the first use case for
the Internet that was, you know, was before e commerce.
Certainly we were happy to be able to send electronic mail,
the type of thing that people actually don't even want
to open at this point, but it was very exciting
at the time. I remember Brian Gumbull and Katie Kirk
trying to make sense of the AT symbol and everybody
(13:13):
was in an uproar as well. The first use case
for blockchain. We actually haven't talked about blockchain as well,
and I'll link this to the scam conversation conversation, but
a blockchain really is just a digital record of transactions
and balances. In the first use case for that type
of technology was crypto. Anytime you have a honeypot of information,
(13:40):
it will bring all of these scammers to the yard.
For example, when electronic mail first came out, we all
remember the time where we would receive emails that said,
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today,
and I am the king of Zamunda, and if you
send me your bank account, I will send you ten
thousand dollars. We didn't throw out an email. We did
(14:00):
certainly didn't throughout the Internet, and this next iteration of
the Internet that doesn't just move information, but that now
moves value is an incredible honeypot that every scammer wants
to have access to. The underlying asset is not a scam.
People will use anything to scam people if they think
they can quickly get money. One of the myths that
(14:24):
I intended to demystify and in fact did in the
book is focused on this idea of scamming and sometimes
somehow the underlying assets would be a scam. No, but
anytime you have value, you will know. In my phone
every day we get texts all the time where people
are trying to scam us. The number one asset that
(14:45):
is used to scam and the number one preferred asset
or currency that is used by scammers without question around
the world is the United States dollar because around the
world it is the global currency reserve or the asset
that people and countries keep in reserve. Even though that
is changing over time. It'll be interesting to have this
(15:06):
conversation in twenty years, but the global reserve currency today
is the dollar that is strongly preferred. And then the
last point here, and the reason that I brought up
blockchain is because the digital record of transactions and balances
for these public cryptocurrencies is public facing. There is no intermediary,
(15:28):
there is no one who can cook the books, and
you can go to any blockchain, explore and see every
single transaction in real time hitting the system. It is
a terrible place to conduct criminal activity. Why because there
is no other technology on the planet that is better
at showing the show me the money, and show me
(15:50):
the money trail. This is the best technology to do that.
So what people don't know is oftentimes the Department of
Justice here in the United States works with companies like
chainal and other companies that do blockchain forensics and actually
recover a lot of the money that we hear sensationalized
about being stolen, A lot of that is actually recovered.
(16:10):
We don't see those recoveries in the headlines, but it's
important to note that as well.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making
Conversations Masterclass, hosted by Rashaan MacDonald. Money Making Conversations Masterclass
continues online at Moneymakingconversations dot com and follow money Making
(16:38):
Conversations Masterclass on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
At I speak with doctor Tonya and Evans her book
Digital Money domestified a young lady and I asked her
you to talk on this. The YouTuber became very fairy
haw Tall. I believe that was the name she goes by.
She dropped a cryptocurrency. It blew up evaluations in the millions,
(17:03):
then it dropped. She disappeared for two weeks, then came
back with an apology. Now, how's that not hot tour
or whatever. She's scamming people out there? Okay, hoktah, he said,
hot Tour. I don't know she's out there she's a
YouTuber HD. Let's go with HT. There's a lot of
(17:24):
people lost money with HT. She disappeared for two weeks,
then she came back online apologizing how this is this
a scam or was she just misled by people and
taking advantage of talk to us about HT.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Well, I'm sure her attorney would say, my client has
no worth, no further comment. Uh And time will tell
because she's you know, there's a case against her in
the Eastern District of New York specifically for this, and
she's not the only one. But for those who don't
know the hoctaw or you got guess, you can go
on TikTok and see all for videos as well. But
(18:03):
her name is Haley Welch, will go with that because
I can actually pronounce that. And she promoted a cryptotoken.
It was HTWK for hawk or whatever, and before the
launch of the token there was a lot of hype
and I want to you know, there's a name for
(18:24):
this type of thing, and we call it pump and dump.
To your question, I don't know if it's a scam
or she didn't know what she was doing, or a
little bit of both. So let's kind of put that
to the side, because there are a number of celebrities
who've gotten in hot water about something like this. But
she goes on to social media and she talks, you know,
about the fact that this has this value and she
(18:47):
is promoting it. Evidently she also had an interest, you know,
not just as you know, a celebrity promoter. Because of
course commercials are not illegal, but there are very specific
secure laws that govern assets that are deemed to be securities.
What does that mean? Basically, you are giving someone else
(19:08):
money and they are promising you that they will use
their own efforts to give you a return on your investment.
That comes from a Supreme Court case called the Howie case,
and it is something that the Securities in Exchange Commission
uses in order to determine whether or not something as
a security, and if it is, it must be registered
(19:29):
with the Securities in Exchange Commission or fall into an exemption.
Evidently they couldn't bother themselves with the pesky little details
of securities law and probably had got really really bad advice. Though,
as you said, she comes back on social she says
that she's fully cooperating. You know, her attorneys are working
to assist et cetera, et cetera, everything that every good
(19:49):
lawyer would say, and her commitment to uncovering the truth.
I suspect she probably didn't know what she was doing.
People want, you know, this idea of a quick buck
as well well. But you know, the market impact is huge.
It goes up to almost five hundred million, and then
you know, shortly after I think it's like at the
beginning of December, and then plummets right over ninety percent.
(20:12):
And it's the pump and dump. There's a crash where
you get a lot of hype. They own tokens, everybody's hyped,
and they drive up the price. The people who are
the issuers sell it and then the bottom falls out.
It's kind of you know, and we've seen that before.
That is very illegal. That has happened to Kim Kardashian,
Floyd Mayweather, DJ Khaled, even Tom Brady and justsell Bunching,
(20:36):
Matt Damon. There have been a number of people who've
been caught up in this type of issue. And so
it's a cautionary tale and you know, dovetails off of
what we talked about before. In terms of scams, you
have to be extremely careful listening to celebrities who are
promoting financial products, and if you're a celebrity, you want
to pump the brakes because all money ain't good money,
(20:57):
especially when you don't know what you're doing, and that
quad where you don't know that you don't know will
get you in very serious trouble, not just with your
fan base, but clearly with the government.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Well, with that being said, Dr Evant, please tell people
how they find your book.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Absolutely, you can go to Digital Money Demystified dot com.
Not only can you purchase the books because an interesting
power move that I did recently, I bought the rights
back to my book so that I could sell it exclusively.
Used to be on you know wherever books were sold,
and recently I reclaimed my rights so that I could
double down on my community and do with the book
(21:34):
that I what I wanted to do, and do it
in a way that promotes. So you can go directly
to my website, my mom and my team they actually
fulfill do all order fulfillments and I signed those books
as well. So Digital Money Demystified is where you start
this journey. You can do this and I can help.
So so let's go slowly. But let's go.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Well, it's great because, like you said, Norserm they just
spending six billion dollars to buy back there brand. So
a lot of corporations say, hey, we can do a
better job instead of trying to make the money. Like
you said earlier, not all money is good money, and
controlling your voice, controlling your brand and the direction you
want to take is better if you own the rights
and the direction you want to take your brand and
(22:15):
your legacy. So I commend you for that. Now. You know,
we always talk about investments, dr evans and gifts, and
you know, I think we're beyond just I remember when
I was growing up, my parents bought me a savings bond,
you know, a twenty five dollars savings bond when I
was five years old. Now, can you use these cryptos
(22:35):
to create gifts that you can give to people? And
how does that work you?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Let's also I meant to highlight earlier when we're talking
about cryptocurrency, it's also a bit of a misnomer because
crypto assets here in the United States are taxed as
a capital asset. So what has aspects certainly of crypto
excuse me, of currencies like the medium of exchange unit
of and ca right, but also as a store of value,
(23:02):
and so for tax purposes and for investment purposes, and
particularly in the United States, we are more likely to
use crypto as an investment over the daily exchange a
medium of account. Although you certainly could, you will not
be able to pry my bitcoin out of my cold
dead hands. But I'm happy to use other types of
(23:24):
cryptocurrency for exchange. But your point is a good one
in terms of how can you use this asset, not
just or in addition to the day to day exchange.
About building value over time and what I call indestructible wealth.
The reason I say indestructible wealth is when we think
of in black communities, for example, we've built extraordinary wealth
(23:46):
over times, particularly in the post enslavement era. And you
think about the greenwoods of the world. We know of greenwood,
but there are hundreds of other places where we built
value only for it to be bombed or to destroyed
or stolen. It makes me think of the Freedman's bank
that under the auspices of the government, how much we
(24:07):
have lost over time. The idea of being able to
have access to indestructible wealth that can't be confiscated, can't
be destroyed, is something we really need to pay attention to,
and that means in addition to the daily use and
accumulation of these crypto acids in general, probably bitcoin in
particulars is not financial or legal advice, but this is
(24:29):
an educational opportunity to learn more because yes, you can gift.
In fact, not only can you gift this asset, you
can also build it into your estate plan. There are
opportunities with bitcoin iras. There are now bitcoin exchange traded funds,
Eleven of them were introduced in the beginning of this
(24:49):
year from companies like black Rock and Fidelity. If our
government is also looking to have a bitcoin strategic reserve.
For all of these reasons, we need to understand and
how we leverage this in our day to day and
in our long term strategy for retirement, for estate planning,
and for gifting to make sure that others are started
(25:12):
off well. There are some caveats with that because it
is to your earlier point. There can be challenges in
setting this up and identifying where it's located, so you
would want to include instructions on how others can access it,
because if they can't access the gift, if they don't
understand the gift, then it's useless. And so you want
(25:33):
to empower those you are gifting with also the information
so that they continue the trajectory of investment and growth
and wealth transfer.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Cool, well, it's great. I want to tell you that
I like to make this a series with you once
a quarter because change things change, And then I don't
want anybody to hear an interview that we're doing now
here six months later, nine months later, think that is
the interview that was be all because information giving out
I can adjust and can change injurate, go up and
down and things like that. But most importantly, just getting
(26:06):
an expert on my show to talk about something that
drives me. I want to participate in cryptocurrency in twenty
twenty five. Now I know how to set up a wallet.
I have a clear understanding that I'm to go and
examine this trust wallet app and see how that's set up.
And like you said, you already told me some names,
cash app, robin Hood, Demo, these are names I'm very
(26:26):
familiar with in the banking industry, in the stock buying industry,
And like I said, it's a change, and it's a
change that we all have to participate as we close
Dctor Tanya m Evans, anything you want to add, You
want to tell my audience that I may have missed
out on that. You want to make sure they hear
out of your brand and your legacy of information.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Absolutely, there are a number of different ways to engage
and everybody will start at a different level, or you're
at a different age and stage. So one, I want
to encourage you to give your of space and grace
as well. You do not have to be a technologist
or a financial guru, but I don't want the impediment
of the new gatekeeper is now your knowledge or lack thereof.
(27:13):
There's no one that keeps us from this. But again,
what we don't know, that we don't know makes us
susceptible to scams. It will be easily confused, we will
be left behind. This is one of those eras in
life where you can make a sizeable jump and kind
of close this wealth gap if you get ahead of
the curve. It's not too late. I know what the
(27:33):
price of bitcoin is.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I'm so excited, but it's nowhere near done yet. You
can imagine the early days of the New York Stock
Exchange and other exchanges. They were rough, they were volatile,
they were untested, they had no history. And now we
look at the SMP, for example, or the NIECE or
the NASDAC and it's mind blowing. Start where you are.
(27:58):
Start now you can read I'm a Forbes contributor, so
I have a roughly weekly I have weekly information that
I share there with my articles. So at Forbes dot com,
look up my name and certainly go to Proftanyaevans dot
com professor and you can get resources, courses, coaching, consulting
(28:20):
and speaking engagements. All of that information is there. Do something.
Start where you are and let's go and grow together.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Cool. I want to thank you for coming on Money
Making Conversations Masterclass. I've been educated and my audience will
grow from this and information this is while we do
this show. Thank you again, doctor Tanya M. Evans.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
This has been another edition of Money Making Conversation Masterclass
hosted by me Rashaun McDonald. Thank you to our guests
on the show today, and thank you. I'll listen to
your audience now if you want to listen to any
episode I want to be a guest on the show,
visit Moneymakingconversations dot com. Our social media handle is oney
Making Conversation. Join us next week and remember to always
(29:03):
leave with your gifts. Keep winning.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Mm hmmm
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It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
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