September 29, 2025 • 25 mins
Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning, television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Rebecca Jarvis.
📝 Summary of the Interview
Rebecca Jarvis, Emmy Award-winning journalist and ABC News Chief Business, Technology, and Economics Correspondent, joined Rushion McDonald to discuss her ABC News Original documentary on the GameStop stock phenomenon. The interview explored her career journey from finance to journalism, the mechanics and implications of the GameStop surge, the role of apps like Robinhood, and the broader lessons about investing and financial literacy. Jarvis emphasized the importance of understanding market dynamics, the risks of single-stock investing, and the power of storytelling in educating the public.
🎯 Purpose of the Interview
- To highlight the GameStop stock surge and its impact on everyday investors.
- To explain the financial mechanics behind trading apps like Robinhood.
- To share Rebecca Jarvis’s career path and insights into journalism and finance.
- To promote financial literacy and responsible investing.
- To showcase the ABC News Original documentary and its human-centered storytelling.
🔑 Key Takeaways 1. Rebecca Jarvis’s Career Path
- Studied economics at the University of Chicago.
- Started in investment banking to pay off student loans before transitioning to journalism.
- Cold-called editors and pitched finance-based stories to break into media.
2. GameStop Stock Phenomenon
- GameStop’s stock surged from ~$4 to $350 due to social media hype, especially on Reddit.
- Influencers like Roaring Kitty (Keith Gill) played a key role in rallying retail investors.
- The event revealed how collective action by small investors can disrupt Wall Street norms.
3. Robinhood’s Role and Controversy
- Robinhood allowed easy access to trading but faced a collateral call due to high trading volume.
- Restricted buying of GameStop, causing public backlash.
- Despite controversy, Robinhood’s user base grew, and it remains a major player in retail investing.
4. Risks of Single-Stock Investing
- Investing in individual stocks is akin to gambling—high risk, high reward.
- Long-term investing in diversified portfolios (e.g., 401(k), IRA) is more stable and proven.
- Leverage (borrowing to invest) can amplify gains but also magnify losses.
5. Human-Centered Storytelling
- The documentary featured diverse investors: a 10-year-old, a new parent, anonymous traders, and more.
- These stories illustrated the emotional and financial motivations behind investing.
- Jarvis emphasized the importance of representation and relatability in financial reporting.
6. Historical Parallels
- The GameStop surge echoed past financial bubbles (e.g., dot-com era, 2008 crisis).
- Technology changes, but human behavior in markets remains consistent.
7. Financial Literacy and Empowerment
- Jarvis advocates for teaching kids about investing through familiar brands.
- Quote: “Invest in what you know.”
- Encourages people to ask questions, seek mentorship, and take initiative in learning finance.
💬 Notable Quotes
- “Anytime you put money into a single stock, it is the equivalent of betting.”
- “Robinhood became the poster child for all the anger and outrage.”
- “It only takes one person to return your call to change your career.”
- “This moment gave GameStop a second life.”
- “We see these things happening over and over again… history repeats itself.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
I am Rushan McDonald, a host of weekly Money Making
Conversation Masterclass show. The interviews and information that this show
provides are for everyone. It's time to stop reading other
people's success stories and start living your own. If you
want to be a guest on my show, please visit
our website, Moneymaking Conversations dot com and click the be
a Guest button. Chris submit and information will come directly
(00:23):
to me. Now let's get this show start. My next
guest is Rebecca Jarvis. She's an Emmy Award winning journalist.
She is ABC news Chief Business, Technology and Economics Correspondence.
Is on the show to discuss ABC news original Game Stop.
Please welcome to Money Making Conversations. Rebecca Jovis, Hey, what
an introduction.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Thank you for having me. I love what you're doing
here is it's fantastic. I love the conversations you're having
and helping people really figure out the building blocks of success.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
So thank you for what you do and thanks for
having me.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well great because you we're both storytellers and when I
read your stories, and like I told before we got there,
I just t gamestyle. I try to do my interviews.
I try to watch what I'm read a book the
day before. She just showed the movies to day with
the twenty four hour cycle that everything's fresh, and I
write notes trying to remember something. But before we get started,
(01:18):
I gave all these titles. But let's learn about your
educational background. Can you tell us a little bit about
you How you got to start from an academic standpoint which.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Led you to ABC through CBS.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yes, fantastic, great, I'm glad we start there because it
is such an important place to be. And so grew
up in Northeast Minneapolis. I grew up my mom is
a journalist. She's a writer, and my grandfather was also
a journalist, and I always wanted to do that as
a career. But they both told me, if you start
that as a career, you're going to be graduating from
college with a lot of student loan debt and you
(01:52):
will not be able to pay it off if you
start out as a journalist. So I went to college
at the University of Chicago. I always gravitated towards math
as a kid. I loved math. I also liked writing,
and I ended up studying economics in college and then
immediately pursuing jobs early on out of college in investment banking.
(02:12):
And the reason I share that is that for me,
I was graduating pretty significantly in student loan debt. I
had about thirty thousand dollars in student loan debt at
my graduation, and I in part chose investment banking and
a career in finance because for me, it was going
to be a way that I was going to be
able to know that I could make my student loan payments.
(02:35):
I didn't have a financial safety net, so there wasn't
anyone else who's going to be paying those student loan
payments upon graduation.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
And I did that job.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
For about two years until I got to a point
where I felt like I could comfortably continue to pay
down my loans and pay them off, and then started
at that point pursuing journalism jobs.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, those jobs have led you to all these shows
that you now respected and cover. But isn't it a
lot of pressure or a lot of a clear understanding
that people come.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
To you for the facts, and so do you have
to do your due.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Diligence and your homework and you have to have relationships
that tell you this is the fact.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Ride with it. I'll run with your story.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, and just like you you know you mentioned at
the top of this program.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
You do your homework, you do your research, and.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
I spend a lot of time digging into the data
and the information and looking at numbers. A lot of
my work today is spent reading research reports, and especially
in the early days of my career starting out in finance.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
One thing I tell a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
They asked me what the best way to get into
journalism is, and for me, the best way was not
necessarily going at it directly. It wasn't starting out and
applying to newspaper and TV jobs right away. Instead, it
was having that financial background that both lends me credibility
today when I have to look at complicated pieces of
financial information, and that's certainly something that we did with Gamestot.
(04:02):
I mean, to be able to look at the stock market,
you really do have to have, or at least for me,
it comes in handy to have a background in it
and to really understand it.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
So starting out in.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Finance, while it wasn't directly walking into a newsroom and
starting out maybe as an intern or a junior level reporter,
it allowed me in some ways to fast track my
career so that when I did start applying for journalism jobs,
I was coming into a newsroom with some credibility around
(04:31):
this topic that I was going to cover, which ultimately
today is now business, technology and the economy. But in
the early days of my career was really business based,
and I could go to editors.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
And this is what I did. I cold called.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I was in Chicago at the time, and I called
up business editors in Chicago and asked them out for
coffee and I talked to them about their job, asked
them how they got to where they got to, and
I would go to each of those meetings with some
ideas as pitches for them, story pitches, and at the
end of the meeting, I would always say, I have
some ideas that I would really like to share with you.
(05:08):
I'd be interested in writing them for you if you
ever had an opportunity for that, and I would share
the ideas and they were all based on.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Things that I saw in finance.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
And so if you are somebody who's on a path,
especially to journalism, I think nothing beats great story ideas.
So if you have a background or you're seeing things,
bring those ideas to and again it can be coold calling.
That's how I did it. I didn't know anyone. I
didn't have a special light up. I just contacted them.
I went on their websites, I looked for the right person.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I reached out. I contacted them.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And another thing I would say about my story that
I think is really something that I encourage everyone to do.
Ask people to coffee without any kind of reservation. I mean,
you don't have to have a specific pitch to someone
about why you're going to get to know them. You
can say I'm interested in your industry, tell me more
(06:01):
about yourself.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
I want to get to know you.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And nowadays, I mean we can do this over Zoom,
you can do it over social media, you can do
it on LinkedIn.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
All of these different platforms are entry points.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And I tell people the most important thing to focus
on is not who doesn't return your call, who doesn't
return your email, It's the one who does. Because it
only takes one to land the job that is going
to bring you to your dream career.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Let me tell you a little bit about myself so
when you start talking, you get a sense of where
I'm coming from from in depth. Okay, my degree is
in mathematics. My minus in sociology. Okay, and so economics.
I tried that degree, plan couldn't get through. Couldn't get through.
I tried my degree planning engineering, couldn't get through. But
(06:48):
math was a natural for me. Got that degree.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Cool. I have invested in the stock several different times.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
One I trusted myself, and then I went into the
little fun that's who. And then recently I decided, I'm
going back to where I used to think. I will
pick the stocks that I wanted to do. And I
went to my Merrill Lynch is where I do my
stock stocking stock investment in through and I said, these
are stock they wanted to, well, we're going to put
you in the fundt to know I want to do
(07:18):
these stocks.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
This.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I'm going back to what I trust myself and my
thought process. So I want to let you know I
have some understanding of the stock market. I'm arrogant enough
to tell people what I want to invest in, not.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Saying it may be the right, but I'm arrogant enough
to say that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And so so when we start talking about game stop,
it's still it helped me a lot to understand what's
going on. But I also have some thoughts about Robin
Hood that app which which I'm really uh, you know,
it was really interesting, Rebecca, I knew about I was
on the outside of this story until I read saw
your documentary, so it really brought me inside and let
(07:53):
me know how this is the stock market really is
about everyday people. So what brought you into the story
of Game Stop?
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Well, first of all, thank you for sharing that background.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
I love that you have that background that you're interested in,
and I think that's kind of where a lot of
people are coming from. You know, I covered the financial crisis,
the Great Recession of two thousand and seven two thousand
and eight, and what I saw happening in the financial
crisis were so many people looking at their savings, the
retirement savings accounts dwindling because the market was collapsing, and
(08:27):
they sold and had they not sold in that environment,
had they held on, they would have made their money back.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
And then some within three years.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Those who sold in the financial crisis were the ones
who lost the half of their life savings on average.
And so to me, I'm always drawn to these various
events around the stock market that captivate and capture everyone's attention.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Because I see.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
A responsibility in my role covering this for ABC News
to be someone who can remind people of his And
when I saw game Stop, in particular, a single stock
that was boosted by hysteria and excitement and this new
trend of people really spending more time online having this
(09:13):
technology in their hand via an app called Robinhood, such
that they could trade twenty four to seven, it reminded
me of the importance both of the role to make
sure that people were getting good information, solid information, and
then also to really want to help people understand the
difference between, for example, putting money into an individual company
(09:37):
like GameStop versus putting money into a four oh one
K or an ira, which is investing, it's saving for
the long term. GameStop is more the equivalent, and it's
not just game Stop. Anytime you put money into a
single stock, it is the equivalent of betting. It's the
equivalent of gambling and walking into a casino.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Because if you're thinking of it in a short term thing,
a single stock can go up or go down. You
can lose money, you can make money on a single stock.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
If you think about the stock market as a whole,
the collective stock market over time historically goes up about
seven percent. Now one year out of thirty, it might
go down, it might go up, but over time, if
you invest for the long haul, that's the most tried
and true form of saving because over time the market
(10:23):
does go up, but you have to be in it
for the long haul to capitalize on that. Whereas with
a company like GameStop, you never know and just the hysteria.
I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Mentioned let me ask you, let me ask you this
because I want to make sure them on the same
pageot you about robin Hood. Now, I saw robin Hood
as an app, okay, an app that you can go
and buy stock on right. I mean you could buy entail,
you could buy Apple, you can buy game Stop in
this situation, am I correct?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Still?
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Cool? Okay? Cool? Now.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
The problem we had with robin Hood was that we
as you go through the story game Stop was everybody
was buying GameStop through the app and they didn't have
the funds to cover the buys.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yes, so all of these brokerages, whether it's robin Hood
or Charles Schwab or any other brokerage, when you use
the app on your phone, they have to have enough
collateral to make sure that they can cover any trade
that you make on your phone. And there's an outside
(11:32):
agency that oversees all of this, that make sure that
Robin Hood and Charles Schwab and all the other brokerages
are safe essentially to do and conduct business in the
way that they're conducting it.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Well, what happened is game Stop.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
So many people were buying Game Stop, and many of
them were using the Robinhood app to do it, but
they were using all different kinds of apps as well.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
So many people were.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Buying Game Stop that it just became explosive. It was large,
truer than life, and that added new risks to the system.
And as a result of those new risks, Robinhood as
well as a number of other brokerages got this collateral
call which said you have to put up way more
money than you have ever put up before in order
to back these trades. And as a result, robin Hood
(12:18):
says it made this decision to.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Restrict buying of game stock.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
And after they did this, you saw the stock of
Game Stop plumbing.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
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Speaker 1 (12:32):
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Speaker 4 (12:53):
Rooring Kitty So just some backgrounds. So there's a person.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
His name is Keith Gill, but he also has the
YouTube name roaring Kitty, and he has a Reddit name
that I can't say here because we would both get.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
In trouble for my language.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
But he is one of the first people who spotted
game stoff. I was treating only a few dollars a share.
He thought it was something that had value. He talked
about it all over social media. A lot of people
started to follow what he was saying and they started
pouring money in. And when he first started talking about GameStop,
it was about four dollars a share. Six months later
(13:29):
it got up to three hundred and fifty dollars a share,
and there was a lot of conversation on Reddit and
other places on social media about the importance of putting
money into GameStop and this idea that if all the
sort of little guys decided to act collectively together that
they could really drive up the price of game stop.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Full disclosure.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I started my career at CNBC in television and in
business television. I have a lot of great friends there.
Jim Kramer is one of them. The reason that I
wanted Jim Kramer to be a part of our conversation
for this story is because he has.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
A front row seat.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
The people who.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Watch Mad Money on a regular basis are many of
the people who are investing in individual stocks. They're looking
for that leg up, they're looking for that information. And
I think what's really important to keep in mind, and
I think this story is illustrative of that, is you know,
there's two.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Sides to every position in the market.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
There has to be a buyer or if there has
to be a seller in order for there to be
a buyer. And I think that's what's so important, is
to at least know what you're walking into. So if
you're going to put money into something and it's an
individual stock, you have to be okay with the possibility
that you could lose money. Now, maybe all the statistics,
(14:51):
all the data that you're reading is telling you, you
know what, there's more upside than there's downside. Obviously you
probably have to think that way in order to put
money in, but the reality is there can always be downside.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
And when you use leverage, which is what a lot of.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
People are now doing, it's always been the thing that
hedge funds and the sort of big money on Wall
Street is always using debt, it's called leverage to bolster
their trades. So if I believe really heavily in something,
I can borrow. If I'm a hedge fund, I can
borrow from a bank more money to put into that
individual stock, and that can help me make money if
(15:29):
the stock goes up, But of course I lose even
more money if the stock goes down. And what's really
important to keep in mind here is if you're an
individual investor and you're using an app, then yes, some
of these new apps like Robinhood will give you if
you meet certain criteria, they will give you access to
that leverage. But it's so important to remember that if
(15:51):
you're using that leverage and the stock goes down, you've
not only lost the money that you put in, but
you're actually out even more money because as you're using
debt to pay for your position.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Wow. First of all again.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Like I said at the early part of our interview,
fantastic special. It kept me in And this is why
I was fantastic, because you brought in individuals that you
can share their.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Little storyline arts about.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You know, the young African American boy who I just
love to death, the anonymous investment with it with the dog.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
You know the dog. We see the dog, but.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
We couldn't see him, okay, so we got to figure
out we know who you are, okay. And then then
you had the guy with the with the family, and
then the young lady who had the Hispanic guy, and
then with the new child, and then you heard and
then you have the young lady with the grandma with
the mom who's telling them to advest who you know?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Why did you choose these?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
First of all, they're perfect perfect By the way, I'm
just asking you from a from a producer, storyteller standpoint.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
They work fantastic.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Why did you choose them to make such a great
ABC News original?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
First, I really do appreciate your interest in the conversation
and the documentary. So we spent a lot of time
looking at the reddit boards. So again, just a little
bit of background for people, a lot of these individual
investors who drove up the price of game Stop. We're
spending time on Reddit having conversations. Now a lot of
(17:24):
people you don't have to use your real name on Reddit, so.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
It was a lot of trial and error.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
People at blah blah, whatever their name is on Reddit.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
We would reach out and.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Say, Hey, I'm with ABC News, I'm working on this documentary.
Do you have any interest in participating. I'd love to
get to know more of your story.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
So of the.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
People that you saw on camera, probably about ten people
who had to do with, you know, did trading of
game Stop, we spoke to truly dozens more. And I
just was on the phone constantly over that time and
over email, constantly reaching out to people.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
And what was really important to me is that our audience.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Got a true representation of the type of people and
hear the backstories.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Of all the different people who invested in GameStop.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
And that's really one of the things again that attracted
me to this was how widespread it was. It wasn't
just one particular group of people.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
People from all different walks of life got interested.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
And I'm so glad that Jaden Carr, the ten year
old from San Antonio struck you. We found Jaden because
he invested in GameStop thanks to his mom.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
His mom wanted to teach him about investing in.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Stock, and so for his birthday or rather, excuse me,
for Kwanza, she purchased a few shares of game Stop
for him so that he could see what it meant
to invest in the market. And she didn't do it
in the midst of hysteria and when everyone was talking
about GameStop. She did it because he liked game Stop
and he shops at GameStop and there's this old saying
(18:57):
invest in what you know, and that was that part
of what made her think about game stuff for him,
because he loves going.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
To game Stop.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
So teach him about investing through something that he loves.
And I think that's a really as a parent. I'm
a parent myself. My daughter is not quite old enough
to be an investor yet, she's too I don't know
that she would understand it if.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
I tried to teach you right now, but I love that.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I think that's really a great way to teach your
children about investing, starting with something they know and understand.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
It's small amounts, absolutely The thing about the event is
that I can you know, this is like there's gold
in them there heels.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
You know, people ran for the gold. It felt like
the gold Rush.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
It felt so like different times in life. We see
this the gold in them there heels. People rush to
the California and they risked their lives by going through
dangerous Indian territories. So they might not risk money, but
they risk their lives to try to seek that fortune.
So that was the kind of like a period there.
And then when you see like in the eighties and nineties,
for the big bubble burst in two thousand and seven,
(19:59):
I was kind of there, you know, because that's when
television like the CNBCS came out and started showing you
people talk about stock and talking about how you can
invest in different ways. And that's when I got introduced
as an African American to that. I remember and Steve
Harvey used to always act like we were stock experts.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
We sent around talking well, we traded over, we traded it.
Didn't know nothing, are you know?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
No, We were what I feel that this show in
your documentary or your news original special tales about we
were just everyday people. We gathered enough information to buy
certain things based on a hunch and the belief that
this would return on our investment.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And that's what it showed.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
If some people lost every day people, some people got
out early every day people, and some people.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Still hung in there. And I thought that was really the.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Kind of like end results of your documentary is that
it was a special about individuals who make their own decisions.
They all got in for different reasons, Rebecca, they all
got excited.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
For different reasons. In the end, when it came time
to stay pull the plug, they all did it for
different reasons.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
That really had to be a strong emotional ind to
well documented special.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I'm glad you thought that, and you know, to your
point earlier, it's such a good point.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
We see these things happening over and over again.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
When the GameStop story first really took on a life
of its own. I was remembering the times during the
dot com bubble in nineteen ninety nine, two thousand and
two thousand and one, when all these tech companies were
coming out, and.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Even though some of the technology.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Didn't exist that exists today. For example, Robinhood the app
didn't exist back then. There were the early days of
internet chat, rooms. There were the early days of people hyping, pumping,
and dumping individual stocks. So as much as things change
because the technology might be new or the modes of
communication might be evolved, this is something that does repeat
(21:57):
itself time and time again throughout history.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
You know, interesting that Robin Hood had the great name
rob from the rich, gift to the poor. So that's
why it was really a good media app and to
really become the center of the conversation. But when I
but they just they changed the rules right in midstream,
you know, and companies do that all the time. It's like,
for instance, you notice when these gift cards, the gift
(22:21):
cards used to be you could keep them forever, and
then all of a sudden they came and changed it said,
you know something, if you don't spend that gift card
in a year, it's not going to be any good anymore.
Because it came back to what burdened down or came
to be the collapse of what Robinhood had to do
on that date and stop buying, is that if you
don't have the money, if you have all these gift
cards out there, you got to have capital to cover
(22:43):
if one day somebody decides to show up and buy
that gift and use that gift card. And so they
decided to change the rules, all of them, change the
rules just saying that we're gonna limit the amount of
time you have to buy this car, otherwise it's going
to become invalid. And so that's what really wore down
the whole principle of robin Hood. They didn't think about
how big they could get and if they got that big,
(23:05):
what's our answer?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Their answer, would you say, stop buying?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Right, And they really became the poster child too for
all of the anger and outrage.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Even though other brokerages made the.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Same choice, it was because of that name, Robinhood, and
the promise that they had made to democratize trading. And
if you're saying you're going to democratize trading, but at
the same time that, for example, a large hedge fund
can do something different because they don't rely on your
app and your customer can't do that thing anymore, it
(23:35):
does create a lot of problems.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
And now they're in this stage of rebuilding that trust.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
They still have millions of users, and in fact, their
user base, based on the data that we've seen at
ABC News, has grown throughout this whole thing.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
And what's really interesting to me is if you look.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
At what's happened both to online trading as well as
even game Stop as a name, all the attention that
this story brought good and bad very likely will ultimately
result in good things for all of these companies. GameStop
was a company many people had largely written off.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
It was a company that had been closing stores that.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
A lot of really smart people assumed was just going
to go out of business. This gave it a new
life and now they're in the process of hiring new people.
They're in the process of reimagining what the brand will
be and rebuilding and very likely, if we go back
in history five years from now, people will say this
moment and everything that this moment brought helped GameStop have
(24:37):
a second life.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Rebecca, thank you for coming on Money Making Conversations.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
This has been another addition of Money Making Conversations Mastered
Lass hosted by me Rashwan McDonald. Thank you to our
guests on the show today, and thank you listening audience now.
If you want to listen to any episode, I want
to register to be a guest. Oh my show, visit
Money Making Conversations dot Our social media handle is money
(25:03):
Making Conversations. Join us next week and remember to always
leave with your gifts. Keep winning.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
I am Rushan McDonald, a host of weekly Money Making
Conversation Masterclass show. The interviews and information that this show
provides are for everyone. It's time to stop reading other
people's success stories and start living your own. If you
want to be a guest on my show, please visit
our website, Moneymaking Conversations dot com and click the be
a Guest button. Chris submit and information will come directly
(00:23):
to me. Now let's get this show start. My next
guest is Rebecca Jarvis. She's an Emmy Award winning journalist.
She is ABC news Chief Business, Technology and Economics Correspondence.
Is on the show to discuss ABC news original Game Stop.
Please welcome to Money Making Conversations. Rebecca Jovis, Hey, what
an introduction.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Thank you for having me. I love what you're doing
here is it's fantastic. I love the conversations you're having
and helping people really figure out the building blocks of success.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
So thank you for what you do and thanks for
having me.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well great because you we're both storytellers and when I
read your stories, and like I told before we got there,
I just t gamestyle. I try to do my interviews.
I try to watch what I'm read a book the
day before. She just showed the movies to day with
the twenty four hour cycle that everything's fresh, and I
write notes trying to remember something. But before we get started,
(01:18):
I gave all these titles. But let's learn about your
educational background. Can you tell us a little bit about
you How you got to start from an academic standpoint which.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Led you to ABC through CBS.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yes, fantastic, great, I'm glad we start there because it
is such an important place to be. And so grew
up in Northeast Minneapolis. I grew up my mom is
a journalist. She's a writer, and my grandfather was also
a journalist, and I always wanted to do that as
a career. But they both told me, if you start
that as a career, you're going to be graduating from
college with a lot of student loan debt and you
(01:52):
will not be able to pay it off if you
start out as a journalist. So I went to college
at the University of Chicago. I always gravitated towards math
as a kid. I loved math. I also liked writing,
and I ended up studying economics in college and then
immediately pursuing jobs early on out of college in investment banking.
(02:12):
And the reason I share that is that for me,
I was graduating pretty significantly in student loan debt. I
had about thirty thousand dollars in student loan debt at
my graduation, and I in part chose investment banking and
a career in finance because for me, it was going
to be a way that I was going to be
able to know that I could make my student loan payments.
(02:35):
I didn't have a financial safety net, so there wasn't
anyone else who's going to be paying those student loan
payments upon graduation.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
And I did that job.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
For about two years until I got to a point
where I felt like I could comfortably continue to pay
down my loans and pay them off, and then started
at that point pursuing journalism jobs.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, those jobs have led you to all these shows
that you now respected and cover. But isn't it a
lot of pressure or a lot of a clear understanding
that people come.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
To you for the facts, and so do you have
to do your due.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Diligence and your homework and you have to have relationships
that tell you this is the fact.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Ride with it. I'll run with your story.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, and just like you you know you mentioned at
the top of this program.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
You do your homework, you do your research, and.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
I spend a lot of time digging into the data
and the information and looking at numbers. A lot of
my work today is spent reading research reports, and especially
in the early days of my career starting out in finance.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
One thing I tell a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
They asked me what the best way to get into
journalism is, and for me, the best way was not
necessarily going at it directly. It wasn't starting out and
applying to newspaper and TV jobs right away. Instead, it
was having that financial background that both lends me credibility
today when I have to look at complicated pieces of
financial information, and that's certainly something that we did with Gamestot.
(04:02):
I mean, to be able to look at the stock market,
you really do have to have, or at least for me,
it comes in handy to have a background in it
and to really understand it.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
So starting out in.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Finance, while it wasn't directly walking into a newsroom and
starting out maybe as an intern or a junior level reporter,
it allowed me in some ways to fast track my
career so that when I did start applying for journalism jobs,
I was coming into a newsroom with some credibility around
(04:31):
this topic that I was going to cover, which ultimately
today is now business, technology and the economy. But in
the early days of my career was really business based,
and I could go to editors.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
And this is what I did. I cold called.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I was in Chicago at the time, and I called
up business editors in Chicago and asked them out for
coffee and I talked to them about their job, asked
them how they got to where they got to, and
I would go to each of those meetings with some
ideas as pitches for them, story pitches, and at the
end of the meeting, I would always say, I have
some ideas that I would really like to share with you.
(05:08):
I'd be interested in writing them for you if you
ever had an opportunity for that, and I would share
the ideas and they were all based on.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Things that I saw in finance.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
And so if you are somebody who's on a path,
especially to journalism, I think nothing beats great story ideas.
So if you have a background or you're seeing things,
bring those ideas to and again it can be coold calling.
That's how I did it. I didn't know anyone. I
didn't have a special light up. I just contacted them.
I went on their websites, I looked for the right person.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I reached out. I contacted them.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And another thing I would say about my story that
I think is really something that I encourage everyone to do.
Ask people to coffee without any kind of reservation. I mean,
you don't have to have a specific pitch to someone
about why you're going to get to know them. You
can say I'm interested in your industry, tell me more
(06:01):
about yourself.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
I want to get to know you.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And nowadays, I mean we can do this over Zoom,
you can do it over social media, you can do
it on LinkedIn.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
All of these different platforms are entry points.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And I tell people the most important thing to focus
on is not who doesn't return your call, who doesn't
return your email, It's the one who does. Because it
only takes one to land the job that is going
to bring you to your dream career.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Let me tell you a little bit about myself so
when you start talking, you get a sense of where
I'm coming from from in depth. Okay, my degree is
in mathematics. My minus in sociology. Okay, and so economics.
I tried that degree, plan couldn't get through. Couldn't get through.
I tried my degree planning engineering, couldn't get through. But
(06:48):
math was a natural for me. Got that degree.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Cool. I have invested in the stock several different times.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
One I trusted myself, and then I went into the
little fun that's who. And then recently I decided, I'm
going back to where I used to think. I will
pick the stocks that I wanted to do. And I
went to my Merrill Lynch is where I do my
stock stocking stock investment in through and I said, these
are stock they wanted to, well, we're going to put
you in the fundt to know I want to do
(07:18):
these stocks.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
This.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I'm going back to what I trust myself and my
thought process. So I want to let you know I
have some understanding of the stock market. I'm arrogant enough
to tell people what I want to invest in, not.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Saying it may be the right, but I'm arrogant enough
to say that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And so so when we start talking about game stop,
it's still it helped me a lot to understand what's
going on. But I also have some thoughts about Robin
Hood that app which which I'm really uh, you know,
it was really interesting, Rebecca, I knew about I was
on the outside of this story until I read saw
your documentary, so it really brought me inside and let
(07:53):
me know how this is the stock market really is
about everyday people. So what brought you into the story
of Game Stop?
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Well, first of all, thank you for sharing that background.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
I love that you have that background that you're interested in,
and I think that's kind of where a lot of
people are coming from. You know, I covered the financial crisis,
the Great Recession of two thousand and seven two thousand
and eight, and what I saw happening in the financial
crisis were so many people looking at their savings, the
retirement savings accounts dwindling because the market was collapsing, and
(08:27):
they sold and had they not sold in that environment,
had they held on, they would have made their money back.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
And then some within three years.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Those who sold in the financial crisis were the ones
who lost the half of their life savings on average.
And so to me, I'm always drawn to these various
events around the stock market that captivate and capture everyone's attention.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Because I see.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
A responsibility in my role covering this for ABC News
to be someone who can remind people of his And
when I saw game Stop, in particular, a single stock
that was boosted by hysteria and excitement and this new
trend of people really spending more time online having this
(09:13):
technology in their hand via an app called Robinhood, such
that they could trade twenty four to seven, it reminded
me of the importance both of the role to make
sure that people were getting good information, solid information, and
then also to really want to help people understand the
difference between, for example, putting money into an individual company
(09:37):
like GameStop versus putting money into a four oh one
K or an ira, which is investing, it's saving for
the long term. GameStop is more the equivalent, and it's
not just game Stop. Anytime you put money into a
single stock, it is the equivalent of betting. It's the
equivalent of gambling and walking into a casino.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Because if you're thinking of it in a short term thing,
a single stock can go up or go down. You
can lose money, you can make money on a single stock.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
If you think about the stock market as a whole,
the collective stock market over time historically goes up about
seven percent. Now one year out of thirty, it might
go down, it might go up, but over time, if
you invest for the long haul, that's the most tried
and true form of saving because over time the market
(10:23):
does go up, but you have to be in it
for the long haul to capitalize on that. Whereas with
a company like GameStop, you never know and just the hysteria.
I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Mentioned let me ask you, let me ask you this
because I want to make sure them on the same
pageot you about robin Hood. Now, I saw robin Hood
as an app, okay, an app that you can go
and buy stock on right. I mean you could buy entail,
you could buy Apple, you can buy game Stop in
this situation, am I correct?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Still?
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Cool? Okay? Cool? Now.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
The problem we had with robin Hood was that we
as you go through the story game Stop was everybody
was buying GameStop through the app and they didn't have
the funds to cover the buys.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yes, so all of these brokerages, whether it's robin Hood
or Charles Schwab or any other brokerage, when you use
the app on your phone, they have to have enough
collateral to make sure that they can cover any trade
that you make on your phone. And there's an outside
(11:32):
agency that oversees all of this, that make sure that
Robin Hood and Charles Schwab and all the other brokerages
are safe essentially to do and conduct business in the
way that they're conducting it.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Well, what happened is game Stop.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
So many people were buying Game Stop, and many of
them were using the Robinhood app to do it, but
they were using all different kinds of apps as well.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
So many people were.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Buying Game Stop that it just became explosive. It was large,
truer than life, and that added new risks to the system.
And as a result of those new risks, Robinhood as
well as a number of other brokerages got this collateral
call which said you have to put up way more
money than you have ever put up before in order
to back these trades. And as a result, robin Hood
(12:18):
says it made this decision to.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Restrict buying of game stock.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
And after they did this, you saw the stock of
Game Stop plumbing.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Please don't go anywhere, We'll be right back for more
money Making Conversations.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Master Class.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Welcome back to Money Making Conversations masteric Class hosted by
me Rashaan McDonald. Money Making Conversation master Class continues online
and Moneymaking Conversations dot Com and follow money Making Conversations
master Class on Facebook, x and Instagram.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Rooring Kitty So just some backgrounds. So there's a person.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
His name is Keith Gill, but he also has the
YouTube name roaring Kitty, and he has a Reddit name
that I can't say here because we would both get.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
In trouble for my language.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
But he is one of the first people who spotted
game stoff. I was treating only a few dollars a share.
He thought it was something that had value. He talked
about it all over social media. A lot of people
started to follow what he was saying and they started
pouring money in. And when he first started talking about GameStop,
it was about four dollars a share. Six months later
(13:29):
it got up to three hundred and fifty dollars a share,
and there was a lot of conversation on Reddit and
other places on social media about the importance of putting
money into GameStop and this idea that if all the
sort of little guys decided to act collectively together that
they could really drive up the price of game stop.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Full disclosure.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I started my career at CNBC in television and in
business television. I have a lot of great friends there.
Jim Kramer is one of them. The reason that I
wanted Jim Kramer to be a part of our conversation
for this story is because he has.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
A front row seat.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
The people who.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Watch Mad Money on a regular basis are many of
the people who are investing in individual stocks. They're looking
for that leg up, they're looking for that information. And
I think what's really important to keep in mind, and
I think this story is illustrative of that, is you know,
there's two.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Sides to every position in the market.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
There has to be a buyer or if there has
to be a seller in order for there to be
a buyer. And I think that's what's so important, is
to at least know what you're walking into. So if
you're going to put money into something and it's an
individual stock, you have to be okay with the possibility
that you could lose money. Now, maybe all the statistics,
(14:51):
all the data that you're reading is telling you, you
know what, there's more upside than there's downside. Obviously you
probably have to think that way in order to put
money in, but the reality is there can always be downside.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
And when you use leverage, which is what a lot of.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
People are now doing, it's always been the thing that
hedge funds and the sort of big money on Wall
Street is always using debt, it's called leverage to bolster
their trades. So if I believe really heavily in something,
I can borrow. If I'm a hedge fund, I can
borrow from a bank more money to put into that
individual stock, and that can help me make money if
(15:29):
the stock goes up, But of course I lose even
more money if the stock goes down. And what's really
important to keep in mind here is if you're an
individual investor and you're using an app, then yes, some
of these new apps like Robinhood will give you if
you meet certain criteria, they will give you access to
that leverage. But it's so important to remember that if
(15:51):
you're using that leverage and the stock goes down, you've
not only lost the money that you put in, but
you're actually out even more money because as you're using
debt to pay for your position.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Wow. First of all again.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Like I said at the early part of our interview,
fantastic special. It kept me in And this is why
I was fantastic, because you brought in individuals that you
can share their.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Little storyline arts about.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You know, the young African American boy who I just
love to death, the anonymous investment with it with the dog.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
You know the dog. We see the dog, but.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
We couldn't see him, okay, so we got to figure
out we know who you are, okay. And then then
you had the guy with the with the family, and
then the young lady who had the Hispanic guy, and
then with the new child, and then you heard and
then you have the young lady with the grandma with
the mom who's telling them to advest who you know?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Why did you choose these?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
First of all, they're perfect perfect By the way, I'm
just asking you from a from a producer, storyteller standpoint.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
They work fantastic.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Why did you choose them to make such a great
ABC News original?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
First, I really do appreciate your interest in the conversation
and the documentary. So we spent a lot of time
looking at the reddit boards. So again, just a little
bit of background for people, a lot of these individual
investors who drove up the price of game Stop. We're
spending time on Reddit having conversations. Now a lot of
(17:24):
people you don't have to use your real name on Reddit, so.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
It was a lot of trial and error.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
People at blah blah, whatever their name is on Reddit.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
We would reach out and.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Say, Hey, I'm with ABC News, I'm working on this documentary.
Do you have any interest in participating. I'd love to
get to know more of your story.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
So of the.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
People that you saw on camera, probably about ten people
who had to do with, you know, did trading of
game Stop, we spoke to truly dozens more. And I
just was on the phone constantly over that time and
over email, constantly reaching out to people.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
And what was really important to me is that our audience.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Got a true representation of the type of people and
hear the backstories.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Of all the different people who invested in GameStop.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
And that's really one of the things again that attracted
me to this was how widespread it was. It wasn't
just one particular group of people.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
People from all different walks of life got interested.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
And I'm so glad that Jaden Carr, the ten year
old from San Antonio struck you. We found Jaden because
he invested in GameStop thanks to his mom.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
His mom wanted to teach him about investing in.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Stock, and so for his birthday or rather, excuse me,
for Kwanza, she purchased a few shares of game Stop
for him so that he could see what it meant
to invest in the market. And she didn't do it
in the midst of hysteria and when everyone was talking
about GameStop. She did it because he liked game Stop
and he shops at GameStop and there's this old saying
(18:57):
invest in what you know, and that was that part
of what made her think about game stuff for him,
because he loves going.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
To game Stop.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
So teach him about investing through something that he loves.
And I think that's a really as a parent. I'm
a parent myself. My daughter is not quite old enough
to be an investor yet, she's too I don't know
that she would understand it if.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
I tried to teach you right now, but I love that.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I think that's really a great way to teach your
children about investing, starting with something they know and understand.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
It's small amounts, absolutely The thing about the event is
that I can you know, this is like there's gold
in them there heels.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
You know, people ran for the gold. It felt like
the gold Rush.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
It felt so like different times in life. We see
this the gold in them there heels. People rush to
the California and they risked their lives by going through
dangerous Indian territories. So they might not risk money, but
they risk their lives to try to seek that fortune.
So that was the kind of like a period there.
And then when you see like in the eighties and nineties,
for the big bubble burst in two thousand and seven,
(19:59):
I was kind of there, you know, because that's when
television like the CNBCS came out and started showing you
people talk about stock and talking about how you can
invest in different ways. And that's when I got introduced
as an African American to that. I remember and Steve
Harvey used to always act like we were stock experts.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
We sent around talking well, we traded over, we traded it.
Didn't know nothing, are you know?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
No, We were what I feel that this show in
your documentary or your news original special tales about we
were just everyday people. We gathered enough information to buy
certain things based on a hunch and the belief that
this would return on our investment.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And that's what it showed.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
If some people lost every day people, some people got
out early every day people, and some people.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Still hung in there. And I thought that was really the.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Kind of like end results of your documentary is that
it was a special about individuals who make their own decisions.
They all got in for different reasons, Rebecca, they all
got excited.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
For different reasons. In the end, when it came time
to stay pull the plug, they all did it for
different reasons.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
That really had to be a strong emotional ind to
well documented special.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I'm glad you thought that, and you know, to your
point earlier, it's such a good point.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
We see these things happening over and over again.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
When the GameStop story first really took on a life
of its own. I was remembering the times during the
dot com bubble in nineteen ninety nine, two thousand and
two thousand and one, when all these tech companies were
coming out, and.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Even though some of the technology.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Didn't exist that exists today. For example, Robinhood the app
didn't exist back then. There were the early days of
internet chat, rooms. There were the early days of people hyping, pumping,
and dumping individual stocks. So as much as things change
because the technology might be new or the modes of
communication might be evolved, this is something that does repeat
(21:57):
itself time and time again throughout history.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
You know, interesting that Robin Hood had the great name
rob from the rich, gift to the poor. So that's
why it was really a good media app and to
really become the center of the conversation. But when I
but they just they changed the rules right in midstream,
you know, and companies do that all the time. It's like,
for instance, you notice when these gift cards, the gift
(22:21):
cards used to be you could keep them forever, and
then all of a sudden they came and changed it said,
you know something, if you don't spend that gift card
in a year, it's not going to be any good anymore.
Because it came back to what burdened down or came
to be the collapse of what Robinhood had to do
on that date and stop buying, is that if you
don't have the money, if you have all these gift
cards out there, you got to have capital to cover
(22:43):
if one day somebody decides to show up and buy
that gift and use that gift card. And so they
decided to change the rules, all of them, change the
rules just saying that we're gonna limit the amount of
time you have to buy this car, otherwise it's going
to become invalid. And so that's what really wore down
the whole principle of robin Hood. They didn't think about
how big they could get and if they got that big,
(23:05):
what's our answer?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Their answer, would you say, stop buying?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Right, And they really became the poster child too for
all of the anger and outrage.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Even though other brokerages made the.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Same choice, it was because of that name, Robinhood, and
the promise that they had made to democratize trading. And
if you're saying you're going to democratize trading, but at
the same time that, for example, a large hedge fund
can do something different because they don't rely on your
app and your customer can't do that thing anymore, it
(23:35):
does create a lot of problems.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
And now they're in this stage of rebuilding that trust.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
They still have millions of users, and in fact, their
user base, based on the data that we've seen at
ABC News, has grown throughout this whole thing.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
And what's really interesting to me is if you look.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
At what's happened both to online trading as well as
even game Stop as a name, all the attention that
this story brought good and bad very likely will ultimately
result in good things for all of these companies. GameStop
was a company many people had largely written off.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
It was a company that had been closing stores that.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
A lot of really smart people assumed was just going
to go out of business. This gave it a new
life and now they're in the process of hiring new people.
They're in the process of reimagining what the brand will
be and rebuilding and very likely, if we go back
in history five years from now, people will say this
moment and everything that this moment brought helped GameStop have
(24:37):
a second life.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Rebecca, thank you for coming on Money Making Conversations.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
This has been another addition of Money Making Conversations Mastered
Lass hosted by me Rashwan McDonald. Thank you to our
guests on the show today, and thank you listening audience now.
If you want to listen to any episode, I want
to register to be a guest. Oh my show, visit
Money Making Conversations dot Our social media handle is money
(25:03):
Making Conversations. Join us next week and remember to always
leave with your gifts. Keep winning.
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Steve Harvey
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Thomas "Nephew Tommy" Miles
Carla Ferrell
Kier "Junior" Spates
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