Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning, television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Cheryl McKissack Daniels,
Topic: Legacy, resilience, and entrepreneurship of the McKissack family, as detailed in the book The Black Family Who Built America.
Cheryl shares the powerful story of her family's 230-year legacy in architecture and construction, making McKissack & McKissack the oldest minority woman-owned professional design and construction firm in the U.S. The conversation explores themes of generational resilience, Black excellence, business strategy, and personal growth.
🎯 Purpose of the Interview
- Highlight the McKissack family’s historical and cultural impact on American infrastructure and Black entrepreneurship.
- Promote the book The Black Family Who Built America as a record of legacy and inspiration.
- Inspire small business owners and entrepreneurs with lessons on perseverance, succession planning, and self-identity.
- Address the importance of preserving Black history in the face of cultural erasure.
🔑 Key Takeaways 🏗️ Legacy & Impact
- McKissack & McKissack has contributed to major U.S. infrastructure projects like:
- Barclays Center
- JFK Terminal One
- LaGuardia Airport
- Penn Station
- Lincoln Financial Field
“We are the fifth generation. Right. And we're Black in America.”
📚 Historical Significance
- The family legacy began with Moses McKissack, who was enslaved and later became a builder.
- Cheryl’s ancestors were the first licensed Black architects in America (licenses 117 and 118 in Tennessee).
“They became the first Black licensed architects in America… and helped get licensed in 22 other states.”
💼 Business Wisdom
- Cheryl emphasizes the importance of:
- Succession planning
- Understanding both technical and political buyers
- Building relationships before you need them
“You better have that relationship before you need it.”
🧠 The 5 Ps of Family Resilience
- Perseverance
- Persistence
- Preparedness
- Purpose
- Prayer
“Sometimes you do get up in the morning and you say it's not for me… You have to come back and meditate on the fact that you're a winner.”
🧘♀️ Personal Growth & Mental Health
- Cheryl discusses overcoming stress, rediscovering herself after a difficult marriage, and the importance of meditation.
“Being yourself is what we're talking about… I recognize that I am currently feeling stressed out. So what do I need to do?”
👩👧👧 Women in Leadership
- Cheryl’s mother took over the business after her father’s stroke, despite societal barriers.
“She only knew the telephone number to the office at that time… but she knew deep inside that she wanted to hold on for the fifth generation.”
🎥 Representation & Media
- The book and Cheryl’s story aim to counteract negative portrayals of Black people in media and history.
“You may not have known about Black excellence. You just ignored it. But we exist.”
💬 Memorable Quotes
- “Black people built America. Now, that's the point we're making here.”
- “You have to say the opposite to yourself. And you have to put one foot in front of the other.”
- “This book is a receipt to say we are around. We have a foundation. We're not going anywhere.”
#SHMS #STRAW #BEST
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My guess is the oldest minority woman owned professional design
and construction firm in the United States. The family's fingerprints
have been left all across the United States, spanning from
reconstruction to contemporary times through projects like the Barclays Center,
the Billy Jean King National Tennis Center, the new terminal
(00:20):
one at JFK International Airport in Philadelphia's Lincoln Financial Field.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
That's just to name a few. We still be talking,
but I want to interview her, revealed in.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Cheryl mckisse's daniels new book, The Black Family Who Built America.
Please welcome to Money Making Conversations Masterclass, Cheryl McKissick Daniels.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
How you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'm great, Rashaan, so nice to be here with you.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
First of all, it was a lot.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
That was a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
There's a lot when I sit here.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
First of all, I don't want to undermine the greatness
of your family, but also it's the buck stops with you.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
How do you make that level of expectation and also
that history, Cheryl.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Uh, Well, you know, I have leaned into my family
legacy and I understand what it represents, and I understand
the foundation that my forefathers.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Have laid for me.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
We go all the way back.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
To Moses the first and with each generation, uh, the
foundation just increased.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It was, it became.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Deeper and wider, right, And so I stand on the
shoulders of these individuals everywhere I go, and I remind
myself of that, and that's what I'm representing.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And so that's how I manage.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
You know, I walk into a room to sell new business, right,
and I know I have four generations of ancestors right
there with me.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Uh, you know, cheering me on.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I look at you, and there's a lot of hard
on this. You know. I'm listening to you, and.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I'm just trying to build my little resume of my
little companies I can qualify for an R and P,
which is in some company to give me a shot.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
You have.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Centuries, centuries and thirty years to be exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Of a resume. That's impressive because I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
You know, I read your book, you know, The Black
Family of Built America, a really amazing read for me
because my last name is McDonald.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
McDonald's doesn't mean anything to me. The kiss X that
means something, starting with the slave owner, that the name
you guys are caring today that is now tied to
which was a burden, which was a sense of tragedy
when your relative was brought over by force and enslave.
(02:56):
But now it's recognized as a uplifting, motivational, powerful name.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Talk to us about that.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah, that is kind of interesting that we've taken on
the slave master's name and it's now become our name
and our brands, right, and so you know, it's kind
of like reverse discrimination.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I mean, it's something in there that I'm reading the book.
I kept trying to wrap my head around this. I go,
but that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Rashond, this is a good thing, right, mckissics in mcissicks right.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
But then when you read the book, you realize that
William McKissick, which is the slave owner in North Carolina
and gave a great great great grandfather the name Moses,
that would name his name, right, And they come from
a Chante, which is this powerful African tribe on West Africa,
And you guys in the book are trying to figure out, well,
(03:51):
if he comes from a powerful African tribe, how did
he get caught?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
How did he get his slave?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So there's a journey that I've only experienced in my
life life through roots, Okay, the roots, and so this
book is kind of like a modern version of Roots
to me, but with a much more powerful and enduring
and growing legacy.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Well, I totally agree with you.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
You know, it takes roots and then overlaps business and
the ability to overcome slavery and Jim Crow and all
of the racism that took place in the South. And
how can you overcome all of that and still build
(04:37):
a business that lasts today? I mean, you know, one
out of five businesses failed the first year, right, okay,
Only forty percent make it to the second generation, eighteen
to the third, and three percent.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
To the fourth.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
And here we are the fifth generation, and we're black
in America.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
The name of the.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Book again, the black family who built a arca the
mckissics two centuries of Daren Pioneer, Pioneer. It was written
by you and Nick Choell Childs Childsick Childs pulla ter
winning Yeah right, okay, yeah, Now, you know, when I'm
reading this book, you know, I always admire the journey
(05:19):
of everybody Martin Luther King who experiences racism to those
of the prominent names. But then when I look at
Moses and his brother who were licensed I think in
nineteen twenty two sports tartified in the state of Tennessee,
I go how.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
And so that's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
It was Moses mckiswic the third in Calvin incorporated US
in nineteen oh five. But that was the second mckisic business,
because the first one was with Moses mckiswick. The second
right after emancipation. But in nineteen oh five, the state
of Tennessee didn't have architectural license lows that adn't come
(06:01):
into effect until the twenties, and so for them to
even stay in business, they had to have these licensees.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So first they had.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
To go to the school through correspondence and receive their degrees,
and then you know, go apply to take the exam.
And of course the entire board was white and they
did not want my grandfather and my great uncle to
take this exam.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
But they were able to lobby the board. And when you're.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Talking about business, think about the fact that they had
this characteristic that they could lobby the board and get one,
just one board member to say, okay, we should not
prevent these two gentlemen from taking this exam, and he
had to use the excuse they're not going to pass anyway,
(06:52):
and so they took the exam they passed the first time,
and you know then the board's like, well, we don't
really want to get these Now we're stuck, like what
do we do?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
But the same board member went back and so I
don't know who.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Was the most clever in this, the mcusics or the
board member where they working together. I mean to have
this strategy that they use for the mcasics to get
their license, but they had to give it to them.
And then they became the first black license architects in
America with license one seventeen and one eighteen. And because
of that, the Tennessee Licensing Board now gets all this
(07:28):
notoriety because they have licensed the first black men in
America and as a result of that, they have a
reversal in their stands on whether they should be licensed
or not, and they decide they should be licensed and
help them to get licensed in twenty two other states.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Wow, you know what it?
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Ye, I'm gonna stutter a little bit because I'm like,
because what I do? I read the books the day
of the interview, so all this stuff is framed in
my mind, and so I react and I'm like, people, go, man,
you know a lot us because I read the book
today up and so you know we're talking Pulaski, Tennessee.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Okay. And then you guys moved to Nashville. Okay. When
I say you guys, but that.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Story right there so reminded me of your situation when
it came to the Barclay Center. Okay, it felt so parallel.
And because you were lobbying, you were hustling. I'm use
the word hustling because you had to go here, go
here to you know, I do it, I do it
raising your hand. You know, the gistics are doing giftics
(08:35):
are doing it right like on the front row of
high school.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
You know, I always want that attention. That's what you were, Seki.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And when I go back in the twenties and I
look at that story, that's all they were trying to do.
They kept raising their hands and they could do it
no matter what. But they had to show they were qualified.
They had to keep telling everybody they can do the job,
just give us a shot. So with me sending the
tone Sheryl, you so if it was written based on
(09:04):
that parallel. Talk about that experience that you just talked
about with Moses and Calvin getting certified in the state
of Tennessee way back in the twenties, even though they
have been doing businesses in nineteen oh five to today
when the opportunity of the Nets coming to town want
(09:27):
to build a new arena, and the things.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
You had to do were not giving away too much of.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
The book, Okay, you know it's very interested.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I did not know I was reliving exactly what they relived.
And I love that you're bringing up this parallel because
it's true because I talk about it all the time
that we still have the people with the same mindset
that they had in nineteen twenty two today in twenty
twenty five. But like them, I knew that I needed
(09:56):
to get to the right people to make sure that
MkIS it was a part of this now. Just think
I'm looking at TV. I seen Bruce Brady by the
Nets and he ain't even bottom yet. But I knew
a new arena was coming with it.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
As I'm talking about the hustling.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And so you know, like, how am I going to
be a part of it?
Speaker 4 (10:21):
And so you know, I begin to think, Okay, a
third of the population in Brooklyn, at least the third is.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Black, you know.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
But it's it's a diaspora absolutely, because it's gone all
you know.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
It's Caribbean black, okay.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Mixed in with blacks from the South like me, and
getting us.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
All rowing together is not easy. But I made sure
that I made.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
A list of all the black organizations, all the black
influencers and political people, and I went to see them,
and I went and told them my story, and I
appealed to whatever they needed to hear.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Or whatever they need. But this is amazing because she's.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Gonna give away the book, and I want you to
buy this book because of the fact that it's like
she sees something on TV, she sees an opportunity. She
is just going, oh, that'll never be my opportunity. She
figured out a way to how do I get in
front of it? How do I not only get in
front of it, become a recognized participant of it. And
(11:29):
as African Americans, we so often say I can't take it.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
That's not me, it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
It's not going to happen to me.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
That's the exact rights that we used absolutely, And that's
why I was important that I bring that up, because
if I go back to Moses and Calvin, black people
saying that back then, that didn't never happen for you guys.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
And that's not true. You know, you have to say
the opposite to yourself, and you have to put one
foot in front of the other and do what's on
your mind and whatever your do list strategy is today.
And I believe in God's economy, nothing goes to waste,
and if you put the energy in, it's going to
come back to you. And so I knew that if
(12:12):
I could just go out and meet all these various people,
that it was going to come together. Now when I
began to study Calvin and Moses, Moses, you know, they
had persistence, they were prepared, as you talked about, you know,
they persevered, yes, and they were on purpose right, and
even fearless and they were feelings, well, yes, they were fearless.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I'm telling you they.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Had fearless And I'm telling you, I'm Cheryl, You're fearless.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I tell you you feel I read the you know,
I interviewed Cheryl back in twenty seventeen, but you know,
I was just starting money making conversations.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
She was gracious to allow me to interview her.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Now, I like to believe that I've risen up a
little bit and becoming there are great.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
But you know that for the and I was interesting.
And let me just tell you a little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Let me ratle off some of some things about her brand,
the mckissics and mckissicks firm, AMTRAKT Atlanta Yard Atlantic Yards
Central Terminal building replacements at LaGuardia Airport, JFK International Airport
at Terminal want. I said that in the intro m
t A New Penn Station, New Jersey Transit, US Airways
(13:25):
Commuter Terminal, alf US air Raids International Terminal, you need
to stop.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Girl. You a hustler with like ste arch. That's correct.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
Congratulations, but then you're not gonna stop though, No.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I mean, thank you so much for that.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
I think I.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Learned in Philadelphia that there's always a technical buyer and
there is a political buyer.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
I feel in Philadelphia I got baptized by fire where
I came to politics, and so I think it's important
when you're looking at any type of pursuit to understand
that you know the technical buyer is.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Going to look at you know, four or five.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Dissent firms and see if they can check all of
the experience.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
And you know, you know.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
The knowledge and the type of staff that you're putting
on the job, but the political buyer is very different.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But that's the game that you've learned to understand is
equally as important as your academia, your resume, and the relationship.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
You better have that relationship before you need it.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Okay, absolutely, it's some questions I want to bring up
because I want you to drop some gems on my audience,
Like the five p's of family resilience.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Well, those are the five p's I gave you earlier.
It's perseverance, persistence, preparedness. You've got to be prepared to
deliver quality work, and then you got to be on purpose.
Now the fifth pi ad it and that's prayer. Because
sometimes you do get up in the morning and you say,
it's not for me. I'm not going to make it,
(15:11):
I'm not going to get there. It's just not for me.
You cannot ever let that enter your mind. You have
to come back and meditate on the fact that you're
a winner.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
We will be right back with more insights from Money
Making Conversation mastic Class. Welcome back to Money Making Conversation
mastic Lass with me, Rashaun McDonald. Why is it important
that you write this book now, Cheryl Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Good question.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
This is the time that this book should be out because.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
They are trying to do away with our history.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
I'm so happy to get rid of the Smithsonian Institute.
On Sunday in the Times, New York Times, they're talking
about the President trying to embrace anything around slavery.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yes, d E and I programs, which.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
You know, I built my business on D E and
I programs.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
When I first arrived in New York with a.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Company with almost two hundred years of experience, right I
still needed a DEI program.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
And so this.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Book right here is a receipt to say we are around,
we have a foundation. We're not going anywhere. You may
not have known about black excellence, you just ignored it.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
But we exist. And that is why this book is
important right now.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
This book, this book, this book, I'm saying the name again,
keep saying that for audio purposes and visual purposes. If
you get to see this on YouTube on the television
show The Black Family Who Built America? When I read that,
now went the Black Family Who. Why did you say
that like that? Why did you say that like that show?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Well, we did know that's the reason.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
How you think now, Yes, it has a lot of
connotations behind it. First of all, we did want to
capture people's attention. But black people built America. And that's
the point we're making here, right.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's why it's so timely, Yes, because of the fact
that we need to tell our stories and our roles,
because so often black people are a stereotyped as needing
a help in hand, or always wanting something and not
giving something.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And we have a black family that is at the
forefront of.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
High level construction, yes, decision making and rewriting the infrastructure
of our daily lives. I would tell my staff CHERYLD,
I tell them that we impact somebody's life every day.
I tell them that, and I say that that's why
I'm always talking about control. Now I'm just in the
(18:03):
audio game. You in the building game, Cheryl. I mean
if a brick's not right, cheap ce met or talk
about that amount of responsibility because people are walking in
these buildings, people are living in these buildings, people are
flying into these buildings.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
There's a lot of pressure, Cheryl.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yeah, it is, and but we've been doing it for
so long. You know, it's in our wheelhouse. And you know,
I would have to say, the business you're in is
one that we need to concentrate on because it's the
images that we show people that create their perception.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Of who we are.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
You know, in my book, we talk about Birth of
a Nation, the film that came out in nineteen fifteen,
right when black people were beginning to thrive outside of
you know, right after emancipation, and they had a lot
of white patriots, you know, but when this movie came
(19:09):
out and it was a black blustered success. Okay, the
President showed.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It in his.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
In the White House, but it depicted black people as
as killers, as sexual molesters, I mean, as thieves, and
sub human and it also scolded white people who wanted
to actually patronize and embrace us and bring us into
(19:38):
the fold. That movie showed them, no, you do not
need to do that. That would be a big mistake.
And of course the ones who wanted who hated us,
who wanted to kill us, it gave them license to
kill right, and that is the importance of image. So
I was justin Martha's Vineyard at the Black Film Fest and.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
That was my.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
They came from a book tour, and this is exactly
what I talked about, because where are we now one
hundred years later? Black people are showing us on film.
But it's not sanitized, it's not censored, right, It's who
we are, who really are, and you know.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I hope that we continue to do that.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
My guess is the oldest minority woman owned professional design
and construction firm in the United States. The family's fingerprints
have been left all across the United States, spanning from
reconstruction to contemporary times through projects like the Morris Memorial Building,
kper CM Church, John F. Kennedy International Airport in Philadelphia's
(20:45):
Lincoln Financial Fiel your book, Gerild, I keep bringing up
the black family who built America. Now let's talk about you,
because you talk about yourself in this book a little bit.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Getting my life right, you know what, I'm saying a
little drink to me claiming myself.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And I'm laughing at that because I think that sometimes
because I always talk about this about my show about
finding yourself, and I always say that between the ages
of eighteen and twenty two, we as individuals are unstoppable,
and sometimes when we get out of that twenty two,
we change, or either marriage can take in their direction
(21:26):
of lifestyle or children can take in that direction. And
in this book, you changed, but you had to get
yourself back. And it's discussing this book and that's why
it's important that you tell my listeners or viewers why
it's important to sustain who you are despite many level
(21:48):
of success or being in a relationship.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Yeah, it's important that you are true to yourself, but
there are situations in life that will take you out
of that, and sometimes you might need to go down
that path just so you can understand how detrimental it
is not to be yourself. And you know, I do
talk about that in my book. For me, it happened
(22:12):
to be a marriage that really took me out of
who I am and finding my way back was a
lot of fun.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Though, keep going, continue because I don't keep cracking, because
I've read this book as fresh in my mind and
we'll be laughing and you go, what need.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
To be about you stayed, continue your process.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
I just had no idea that I was so far
off course, And you know mine was my relationship with alcohol.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
And you know, growing up early.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
On, I tell the story about the first time my
father said, Okay, you all are going to have a
drink today and I'm going to be the first man
to get you drunk.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And were sent.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
At his bar and he hoard us these big glasses
of Jack daniels. My twin sister and I both drinking
and our mother comes around the corner right when we
are finishing and about to fall out the.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Chair, right.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
So, you know, our family grew up where you know,
we'd have wine for dinner and all that kind of stuff.
And then I meet this man who doesn't want me
to drink anymore, and I completely cut it off. But
it just it made me not who I really was,
and I ended up, you know, at my doctor's office, stressed,
(23:33):
stressed out completely, young kids not understanding you know why
I could not get settled. And I'm not saying alcohol
truly settles you, but being yourself well.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Bisions is what we were talking about, right, And guess
what the word stress was introduced to you now? Everybody
talk about stress nowadays, you know, mental health is a
part of everybody's conversation, and black people don't even want
to talk about it, even though it's still popular or
it's popularized that you should realize that there are issues
that you have to deal with on a daily and
(24:06):
ongoing basis. Now, when it was being brought to you
about stress, how did you deal with that and how
did you comprehend that was something or reality that you
were living.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Yeah, I mean the stress would grow over time because
when you are building a business, you know, you're the
chief bottle.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Washer, cook and everything else. There's a period of time
of that.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
There's a period of time of just going out into
the world and trying to you know, bring in new
business and increase your revenues, and so all of that
creates stress.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
And you're working around the clock.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
I remember catching you know, six o'clock trains out of
Penn Station to go to Philly and then come back
home and get back to New York at like ten
o'clock at night and still having to.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Drive back home. You know, all of that create stress.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
You know, you're meeting people at events at night, you're
having a dinner in an event, and it.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Just it never ends.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
And so that along with personal stress you can begin
to lose who you are. And so I deal with
stress very differently today. First of all, I recognize it.
I recognize that I am currently feeling stressed out. So
what do I need to do? And I usually will
(25:31):
go meditate. We have a meditation room in our office
and I can barely get in there most days because
everybody's in there right right.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
And I'm like knocking on the door, It's my turn.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
But there is something about calming yourself and being in
the moment. I did that this morning in this beautiful
airbnb we have here in Atlanta, with the trees around,
and I said, no cell phone, just sit here, just try.
You know, ten fifteen minutes of this, I swear it'll
change your world.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
But not only that.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
You begin to get all these thoughts, all these creative,
innovative thoughts that give you your next steps to take
the stress off of you.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
It's important that in your book I bring up your
mom opes.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I love her, you.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Know, because of the fact that again as a black woman,
a woman of African American descent, you know, stay of
Tennessee your father, talk about her and her resilience, talk
about some of the things she had to overcome when
it continue the legacy that you're driving forth.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Now, Yeah, Mom is a dynamo, you know. She had
been supporting my father for many, many years and she's.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Still in Nashville.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
And she's still in Nashville.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
She turned ninety five in July, and so she was
on the periphery of the company because she would tell
my father, well, instead of taking your clients out to dinner,
bring them home. And she would have these lavish meals
with the best china and wine and appetizers, entrede dessert
(27:19):
and she would make all of that. But she's sitting
there listening as well. So when my father had his
massive stroke and she had to step in and take
over the business, she only knew the telephone number to
the office at that time, but she knew deep inside
that she wanted to hold on for the fifth generation.
(27:42):
The city of Nashville. Other architectural firms and construction firms
at the time approached her and told her, you're a woman,
you can't run this business. You're not an architect, you're
not an engineer. Can we just buy your firm? And
it would have been easy for her just to sell,
but she's like, no, I am going to keep this
(28:05):
firm alive for my three daughters, just in case one
of them wants to come back and join it. She
had a master's degree in psychology. She's a teacher, right,
She was a teacher, a very good teacher. I've met
a lot of her students over the years, and we
like to say, at least I like to say that
(28:27):
her masters agree in psychology helped her to deal with
the manias and phobias of men who couldn't understand a
woman could run a business. So this is the eighties.
She could not borrow money. Women period could not borrow money.
Their sons, their uncles, everybody else could if you were
a man. It wasn't until nineteen ninety at the Women's
(28:48):
Business Act that was passed by Congress that she could
begin to borrow money. So she had to overcome that obstacle,
but she was masterful at it at selling business. We
went to Tuskegee University. We met with doctor Peyton and
she was opening up a new building that we had designed.
(29:12):
And doctor Peyton came over to her and it's like,
you know, Lee, when I've told you from the very beginning,
this is the South, it gets hot down here. I
need operable windows and Mom said they're not operable. He said,
not one she's she said, okay, She's like, you know what,
(29:35):
I'm going to change out every window and I'm going
to pay for it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
So now we're walking through the campus and she looks
over and she sees this old, dilapidated building. They're literally
storing lawn equipment there. She says to doctor Peyton, I
see you living there. And I'm thinking to myself, is
mom has she lost? And he's taking the same thing.
She said, no, let's go over there. It's this beautiful,
(30:03):
stately building that was just in disrepair. Beautiful couple at
the top. He commissioned her to redesign that building and
renovate it and make it his home.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
And it's called Great Columns and it's still standing on
Tusky US campus. So she fixed one problem and got another.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
A hustle from mom and daughter. Come on, now, you
know it's such a beautiful story. And again reading your book, geryld,
I know you keep going. He did read it.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
You know you didn't read it. You didn't read it.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yes, he's a you know hidden figures really popular movies.
Uh to Rogi p Henson started in it, and oftentimes
your family legacy has been tied to like the hidden
figures of construction.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Talk about that.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah, you know, it's very interesting that people walk in
the structures all day long.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
I don't care if.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
It's their grocery store, their school, their hospital, you know,
the airport, train station. They're walking into some establishment every day.
But they never think of who built this, right, And
you know, so we're trying to elevate this profession and
to brand it as a profession that can build wealth.
(31:37):
And you know, it's another alternative for our young people
to consider when they think about a career. And so
when you think about the hidden figures of the world,
you know, it wasn't until we heard that story did
we even know there were computer people acting as computers.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
But they were black women.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
And it's the same with our story. You never think
about who's building something. But then when you look further
and deeper into it, not only are the people who
are building it, you know, majority or whatever, they're black people, right,
And so that's how to me, you know, that is
the corel that's why they correlate between those two examples
(32:24):
that you just gave.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Well, you know the amazing thing. First of all, thank
you for giving me the time to talk to you
in this forum. Cheryl. You know, the book is about
history repeat itself. It's about motivation, resiliency, overcoming the odds,
uplift relationships. That because I'm talking to small business owners,
(32:48):
I'm talking to nonprofits, I'm talking about entrepreneurs. And this
book is really a must read in my eyes, yes,
because it's so many lessons to be learned and to
be told. As we close out this interview, we've discussed
a lot of amazing stories that are coming out of
this book. Just a small part of your legacy that
(33:11):
you continue today with your super hustle.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Super Hustle that's a nickname.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Because your family super hustles back then Moses and Calvin,
back in the day Moses when he's giving the first
opportunity and they were being allowed to travel in the
state of North Carolina with notes. That's the only way
slaves could get around. They would have to get a
note to travel from place to place to.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Justify the read it and so but that, But the.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Legacy of Meckissic and mckissic was William mckissicks was a
slave owner who purchased Moses when he was eleven years old,
and that started the legacy that were and today your
final thoughts.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
My final thoughts, especially for the small businesses, the nonprofits
and all of that. Like this book does talk about entrepreneurship,
and that's the beginning, but let's talk about sustainability. How
to keep it sustainable in perpetuity, you know, posterity.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Let's talk about what do you need to do for that?
Speaker 4 (34:28):
And you know I always tell business owners you got
to think about your exit.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
You got to think about your end game, because it's coming,
whether you're wanted to or not.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Succession is important, yes, and so I just want to
make sure people are really understanding that they need to
plan a succession and don't think you can do it
like the last two years that you want to work before.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
You retire, but this is something that takes ten years
to plan.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
In our world, we're creating and have created a very
strong management team. So the company now can run with
more than just me managing and telling everyone what to do.
Matter of fact, it runs without me right now. And
I don't plan to retire or step back until twenty thirty.
(35:23):
So I'm giving my plan many years to work out
all the kinks while I'm still around, and that is
what I want to say. Also want to tell people
to start doing a family tree, to start writing down
what they do know about their families.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
You know, you have to know at least two generations
at least too.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You stop that I thought to go back to street
Port Louis pun stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
You'd be surprised.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
I know, I'm I'm not surprised is the person I'm
talking to today. I am so proud of you, and
I say that with great sincerity. I'm so proud when
I'm able to talk to I like to believe living legends.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
You've established a legacy with your family and you're not stopping,
and your kids are not going to stop. You won't
let them stop because you know there's history and it's
not going to die on the vine while you're alive.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
And so twenty thirty is coming, But that doesn't mean
twenty thirty one. You don't have nothing to say.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
That's right, You've got.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
What you're doing working on.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
See my mother.
Speaker 6 (36:45):
Yes, you amazing, Thank you sir for coming to my
show in your book, My Black Family Who Built America,
The Mechistics Two Centuries of Daring pioneer Sarah mckistics Daniel
with Nick Childs.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yes, thank you for coming on Money Making Conversation, My Pleasure.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
This has been another edition of Money Making Conversations Masterclass
hosted by me Rashaan McDonald. Thank you to our guests
on the show today and thank you our listening audience. Now,
if you want to listen to any episode I want
to register to be a guest on my show, visit
Moneymakingconversations dot com. Our social media handle is money Making Conversations.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Join us next week and remember to always leave with
your gifts. Keep winning
My guess is the oldest minority woman owned professional design
and construction firm in the United States. The family's fingerprints
have been left all across the United States, spanning from
reconstruction to contemporary times through projects like the Barclays Center,
the Billy Jean King National Tennis Center, the new terminal
(00:20):
one at JFK International Airport in Philadelphia's Lincoln Financial Field.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
That's just to name a few. We still be talking,
but I want to interview her, revealed in.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Cheryl mckisse's daniels new book, The Black Family Who Built America.
Please welcome to Money Making Conversations Masterclass, Cheryl McKissick Daniels.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
How you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'm great, Rashaan, so nice to be here with you.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
First of all, it was a lot.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
That was a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
There's a lot when I sit here.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
First of all, I don't want to undermine the greatness
of your family, but also it's the buck stops with you.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
How do you make that level of expectation and also
that history, Cheryl.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Uh, Well, you know, I have leaned into my family
legacy and I understand what it represents, and I understand
the foundation that my forefathers.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Have laid for me.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
We go all the way back.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
To Moses the first and with each generation, uh, the
foundation just increased.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It was, it became.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Deeper and wider, right, And so I stand on the
shoulders of these individuals everywhere I go, and I remind
myself of that, and that's what I'm representing.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And so that's how I manage.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
You know, I walk into a room to sell new business, right,
and I know I have four generations of ancestors right
there with me.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Uh, you know, cheering me on.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I look at you, and there's a lot of hard
on this. You know. I'm listening to you, and.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I'm just trying to build my little resume of my
little companies I can qualify for an R and P,
which is in some company to give me a shot.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
You have.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Centuries, centuries and thirty years to be exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Of a resume. That's impressive because I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
You know, I read your book, you know, The Black
Family of Built America, a really amazing read for me
because my last name is McDonald.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
McDonald's doesn't mean anything to me. The kiss X that
means something, starting with the slave owner, that the name
you guys are caring today that is now tied to
which was a burden, which was a sense of tragedy
when your relative was brought over by force and enslave.
(02:56):
But now it's recognized as a uplifting, motivational, powerful name.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Talk to us about that.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah, that is kind of interesting that we've taken on
the slave master's name and it's now become our name
and our brands, right, and so you know, it's kind
of like reverse discrimination.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I mean, it's something in there that I'm reading the book.
I kept trying to wrap my head around this. I go,
but that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Rashond, this is a good thing, right, mckissics in mcissicks right.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
But then when you read the book, you realize that
William McKissick, which is the slave owner in North Carolina
and gave a great great great grandfather the name Moses,
that would name his name, right, And they come from
a Chante, which is this powerful African tribe on West Africa,
And you guys in the book are trying to figure out, well,
(03:51):
if he comes from a powerful African tribe, how did
he get caught?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
How did he get his slave?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So there's a journey that I've only experienced in my
life life through roots, Okay, the roots, and so this
book is kind of like a modern version of Roots
to me, but with a much more powerful and enduring
and growing legacy.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Well, I totally agree with you.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
You know, it takes roots and then overlaps business and
the ability to overcome slavery and Jim Crow and all
of the racism that took place in the South. And
how can you overcome all of that and still build
(04:37):
a business that lasts today? I mean, you know, one
out of five businesses failed the first year, right, okay,
Only forty percent make it to the second generation, eighteen
to the third, and three percent.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
To the fourth.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
And here we are the fifth generation, and we're black
in America.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
The name of the.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Book again, the black family who built a arca the
mckissics two centuries of Daren Pioneer, Pioneer. It was written
by you and Nick Choell Childs Childsick Childs pulla ter
winning Yeah right, okay, yeah, Now, you know, when I'm
reading this book, you know, I always admire the journey
(05:19):
of everybody Martin Luther King who experiences racism to those
of the prominent names. But then when I look at
Moses and his brother who were licensed I think in
nineteen twenty two sports tartified in the state of Tennessee,
I go how.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
And so that's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
It was Moses mckiswic the third in Calvin incorporated US
in nineteen oh five. But that was the second mckisic business,
because the first one was with Moses mckiswick. The second
right after emancipation. But in nineteen oh five, the state
of Tennessee didn't have architectural license lows that adn't come
(06:01):
into effect until the twenties, and so for them to
even stay in business, they had to have these licensees.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So first they had.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
To go to the school through correspondence and receive their degrees,
and then you know, go apply to take the exam.
And of course the entire board was white and they
did not want my grandfather and my great uncle to
take this exam.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
But they were able to lobby the board. And when you're.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Talking about business, think about the fact that they had
this characteristic that they could lobby the board and get one,
just one board member to say, okay, we should not
prevent these two gentlemen from taking this exam, and he
had to use the excuse they're not going to pass anyway,
(06:52):
and so they took the exam they passed the first time,
and you know then the board's like, well, we don't
really want to get these Now we're stuck, like what
do we do?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
But the same board member went back and so I
don't know who.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Was the most clever in this, the mcusics or the
board member where they working together. I mean to have
this strategy that they use for the mcasics to get
their license, but they had to give it to them.
And then they became the first black license architects in
America with license one seventeen and one eighteen. And because
of that, the Tennessee Licensing Board now gets all this
(07:28):
notoriety because they have licensed the first black men in
America and as a result of that, they have a
reversal in their stands on whether they should be licensed
or not, and they decide they should be licensed and
help them to get licensed in twenty two other states.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Wow, you know what it?
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Ye, I'm gonna stutter a little bit because I'm like,
because what I do? I read the books the day
of the interview, so all this stuff is framed in
my mind, and so I react and I'm like, people, go, man,
you know a lot us because I read the book
today up and so you know we're talking Pulaski, Tennessee.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Okay. And then you guys moved to Nashville. Okay. When
I say you guys, but that.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Story right there so reminded me of your situation when
it came to the Barclay Center. Okay, it felt so parallel.
And because you were lobbying, you were hustling. I'm use
the word hustling because you had to go here, go
here to you know, I do it, I do it
raising your hand. You know, the gistics are doing giftics
(08:35):
are doing it right like on the front row of
high school.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
You know, I always want that attention. That's what you were, Seki.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And when I go back in the twenties and I
look at that story, that's all they were trying to do.
They kept raising their hands and they could do it
no matter what. But they had to show they were qualified.
They had to keep telling everybody they can do the job,
just give us a shot. So with me sending the
tone Sheryl, you so if it was written based on
(09:04):
that parallel. Talk about that experience that you just talked
about with Moses and Calvin getting certified in the state
of Tennessee way back in the twenties, even though they
have been doing businesses in nineteen oh five to today
when the opportunity of the Nets coming to town want
(09:27):
to build a new arena, and the things.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
You had to do were not giving away too much of.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
The book, Okay, you know it's very interested.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I did not know I was reliving exactly what they relived.
And I love that you're bringing up this parallel because
it's true because I talk about it all the time
that we still have the people with the same mindset
that they had in nineteen twenty two today in twenty
twenty five. But like them, I knew that I needed
(09:56):
to get to the right people to make sure that
MkIS it was a part of this now. Just think
I'm looking at TV. I seen Bruce Brady by the
Nets and he ain't even bottom yet. But I knew
a new arena was coming with it.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
As I'm talking about the hustling.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And so you know, like, how am I going to
be a part of it?
Speaker 4 (10:21):
And so you know, I begin to think, Okay, a
third of the population in Brooklyn, at least the third is.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Black, you know.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
But it's it's a diaspora absolutely, because it's gone all
you know.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
It's Caribbean black, okay.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Mixed in with blacks from the South like me, and
getting us.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
All rowing together is not easy. But I made sure
that I made.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
A list of all the black organizations, all the black
influencers and political people, and I went to see them,
and I went and told them my story, and I
appealed to whatever they needed to hear.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Or whatever they need. But this is amazing because she's.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Gonna give away the book, and I want you to
buy this book because of the fact that it's like
she sees something on TV, she sees an opportunity. She
is just going, oh, that'll never be my opportunity. She
figured out a way to how do I get in
front of it? How do I not only get in
front of it, become a recognized participant of it. And
(11:29):
as African Americans, we so often say I can't take it.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
That's not me, it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
It's not going to happen to me.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
That's the exact rights that we used absolutely, And that's
why I was important that I bring that up, because
if I go back to Moses and Calvin, black people
saying that back then, that didn't never happen for you guys.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
And that's not true. You know, you have to say
the opposite to yourself, and you have to put one
foot in front of the other and do what's on
your mind and whatever your do list strategy is today.
And I believe in God's economy, nothing goes to waste,
and if you put the energy in, it's going to
come back to you. And so I knew that if
(12:12):
I could just go out and meet all these various people,
that it was going to come together. Now when I
began to study Calvin and Moses, Moses, you know, they
had persistence, they were prepared, as you talked about, you know,
they persevered, yes, and they were on purpose right, and
even fearless and they were feelings, well, yes, they were fearless.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I'm telling you they.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Had fearless And I'm telling you, I'm Cheryl, You're fearless.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I tell you you feel I read the you know,
I interviewed Cheryl back in twenty seventeen, but you know,
I was just starting money making conversations.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
She was gracious to allow me to interview her.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Now, I like to believe that I've risen up a
little bit and becoming there are great.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
But you know that for the and I was interesting.
And let me just tell you a little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Let me ratle off some of some things about her brand,
the mckissics and mckissicks firm, AMTRAKT Atlanta Yard Atlantic Yards
Central Terminal building replacements at LaGuardia Airport, JFK International Airport
at Terminal want. I said that in the intro m
t A New Penn Station, New Jersey Transit, US Airways
(13:25):
Commuter Terminal, alf US air Raids International Terminal, you need
to stop.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Girl. You a hustler with like ste arch. That's correct.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
Congratulations, but then you're not gonna stop though, No.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I mean, thank you so much for that.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
I think I.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Learned in Philadelphia that there's always a technical buyer and
there is a political buyer.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
I feel in Philadelphia I got baptized by fire where
I came to politics, and so I think it's important
when you're looking at any type of pursuit to understand
that you know the technical buyer is.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Going to look at you know, four or five.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Dissent firms and see if they can check all of
the experience.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
And you know, you know.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
The knowledge and the type of staff that you're putting
on the job, but the political buyer is very different.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But that's the game that you've learned to understand is
equally as important as your academia, your resume, and the relationship.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
You better have that relationship before you need it.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Okay, absolutely, it's some questions I want to bring up
because I want you to drop some gems on my audience,
Like the five p's of family resilience.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Well, those are the five p's I gave you earlier.
It's perseverance, persistence, preparedness. You've got to be prepared to
deliver quality work, and then you got to be on purpose.
Now the fifth pi ad it and that's prayer. Because
sometimes you do get up in the morning and you say,
it's not for me. I'm not going to make it,
(15:11):
I'm not going to get there. It's just not for me.
You cannot ever let that enter your mind. You have
to come back and meditate on the fact that you're
a winner.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
We will be right back with more insights from Money
Making Conversation mastic Class. Welcome back to Money Making Conversation
mastic Lass with me, Rashaun McDonald. Why is it important
that you write this book now, Cheryl Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Good question.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
This is the time that this book should be out because.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
They are trying to do away with our history.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
I'm so happy to get rid of the Smithsonian Institute.
On Sunday in the Times, New York Times, they're talking
about the President trying to embrace anything around slavery.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yes, d E and I programs, which.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
You know, I built my business on D E and
I programs.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
When I first arrived in New York with a.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Company with almost two hundred years of experience, right I
still needed a DEI program.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
And so this.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Book right here is a receipt to say we are around,
we have a foundation. We're not going anywhere. You may
not have known about black excellence, you just ignored it.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
But we exist. And that is why this book is
important right now.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
This book, this book, this book, I'm saying the name again,
keep saying that for audio purposes and visual purposes. If
you get to see this on YouTube on the television
show The Black Family Who Built America? When I read that,
now went the Black Family Who. Why did you say
that like that? Why did you say that like that show?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Well, we did know that's the reason.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
How you think now, Yes, it has a lot of
connotations behind it. First of all, we did want to
capture people's attention. But black people built America. And that's
the point we're making here, right.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's why it's so timely, Yes, because of the fact
that we need to tell our stories and our roles,
because so often black people are a stereotyped as needing
a help in hand, or always wanting something and not
giving something.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And we have a black family that is at the
forefront of.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
High level construction, yes, decision making and rewriting the infrastructure
of our daily lives. I would tell my staff CHERYLD,
I tell them that we impact somebody's life every day.
I tell them that, and I say that that's why
I'm always talking about control. Now I'm just in the
(18:03):
audio game. You in the building game, Cheryl. I mean
if a brick's not right, cheap ce met or talk
about that amount of responsibility because people are walking in
these buildings, people are living in these buildings, people are
flying into these buildings.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
There's a lot of pressure, Cheryl.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yeah, it is, and but we've been doing it for
so long. You know, it's in our wheelhouse. And you know,
I would have to say, the business you're in is
one that we need to concentrate on because it's the
images that we show people that create their perception.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Of who we are.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
You know, in my book, we talk about Birth of
a Nation, the film that came out in nineteen fifteen,
right when black people were beginning to thrive outside of
you know, right after emancipation, and they had a lot
of white patriots, you know, but when this movie came
(19:09):
out and it was a black blustered success. Okay, the
President showed.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It in his.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
In the White House, but it depicted black people as
as killers, as sexual molesters, I mean, as thieves, and
sub human and it also scolded white people who wanted
to actually patronize and embrace us and bring us into
(19:38):
the fold. That movie showed them, no, you do not
need to do that. That would be a big mistake.
And of course the ones who wanted who hated us,
who wanted to kill us, it gave them license to
kill right, and that is the importance of image. So
I was justin Martha's Vineyard at the Black Film Fest and.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
That was my.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
They came from a book tour, and this is exactly
what I talked about, because where are we now one
hundred years later? Black people are showing us on film.
But it's not sanitized, it's not censored, right, It's who
we are, who really are, and you know.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I hope that we continue to do that.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
My guess is the oldest minority woman owned professional design
and construction firm in the United States. The family's fingerprints
have been left all across the United States, spanning from
reconstruction to contemporary times through projects like the Morris Memorial Building,
kper CM Church, John F. Kennedy International Airport in Philadelphia's
(20:45):
Lincoln Financial Fiel your book, Gerild, I keep bringing up
the black family who built America. Now let's talk about you,
because you talk about yourself in this book a little bit.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Getting my life right, you know what, I'm saying a
little drink to me claiming myself.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And I'm laughing at that because I think that sometimes
because I always talk about this about my show about
finding yourself, and I always say that between the ages
of eighteen and twenty two, we as individuals are unstoppable,
and sometimes when we get out of that twenty two,
we change, or either marriage can take in their direction
(21:26):
of lifestyle or children can take in that direction. And
in this book, you changed, but you had to get
yourself back. And it's discussing this book and that's why
it's important that you tell my listeners or viewers why
it's important to sustain who you are despite many level
(21:48):
of success or being in a relationship.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Yeah, it's important that you are true to yourself, but
there are situations in life that will take you out
of that, and sometimes you might need to go down
that path just so you can understand how detrimental it
is not to be yourself. And you know, I do
talk about that in my book. For me, it happened
(22:12):
to be a marriage that really took me out of
who I am and finding my way back was a
lot of fun.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Though, keep going, continue because I don't keep cracking, because
I've read this book as fresh in my mind and
we'll be laughing and you go, what need.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
To be about you stayed, continue your process.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
I just had no idea that I was so far
off course, And you know mine was my relationship with alcohol.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
And you know, growing up early.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
On, I tell the story about the first time my
father said, Okay, you all are going to have a
drink today and I'm going to be the first man
to get you drunk.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And were sent.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
At his bar and he hoard us these big glasses
of Jack daniels. My twin sister and I both drinking
and our mother comes around the corner right when we
are finishing and about to fall out the.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Chair, right.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
So, you know, our family grew up where you know,
we'd have wine for dinner and all that kind of stuff.
And then I meet this man who doesn't want me
to drink anymore, and I completely cut it off. But
it just it made me not who I really was,
and I ended up, you know, at my doctor's office, stressed,
(23:33):
stressed out completely, young kids not understanding you know why
I could not get settled. And I'm not saying alcohol
truly settles you, but being yourself well.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Bisions is what we were talking about, right, And guess
what the word stress was introduced to you now? Everybody
talk about stress nowadays, you know, mental health is a
part of everybody's conversation, and black people don't even want
to talk about it, even though it's still popular or
it's popularized that you should realize that there are issues
that you have to deal with on a daily and
(24:06):
ongoing basis. Now, when it was being brought to you
about stress, how did you deal with that and how
did you comprehend that was something or reality that you
were living.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Yeah, I mean the stress would grow over time because
when you are building a business, you know, you're the
chief bottle.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Washer, cook and everything else. There's a period of time
of that.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
There's a period of time of just going out into
the world and trying to you know, bring in new
business and increase your revenues, and so all of that
creates stress.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
And you're working around the clock.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
I remember catching you know, six o'clock trains out of
Penn Station to go to Philly and then come back
home and get back to New York at like ten
o'clock at night and still having to.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Drive back home. You know, all of that create stress.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
You know, you're meeting people at events at night, you're
having a dinner in an event, and it.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Just it never ends.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
And so that along with personal stress you can begin
to lose who you are. And so I deal with
stress very differently today. First of all, I recognize it.
I recognize that I am currently feeling stressed out. So
what do I need to do? And I usually will
(25:31):
go meditate. We have a meditation room in our office
and I can barely get in there most days because
everybody's in there right right.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
And I'm like knocking on the door, It's my turn.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
But there is something about calming yourself and being in
the moment. I did that this morning in this beautiful
airbnb we have here in Atlanta, with the trees around,
and I said, no cell phone, just sit here, just try.
You know, ten fifteen minutes of this, I swear it'll
change your world.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
But not only that.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
You begin to get all these thoughts, all these creative,
innovative thoughts that give you your next steps to take
the stress off of you.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
It's important that in your book I bring up your
mom opes.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I love her, you.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Know, because of the fact that again as a black woman,
a woman of African American descent, you know, stay of
Tennessee your father, talk about her and her resilience, talk
about some of the things she had to overcome when
it continue the legacy that you're driving forth.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Now, Yeah, Mom is a dynamo, you know. She had
been supporting my father for many, many years and she's.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Still in Nashville.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
And she's still in Nashville.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
She turned ninety five in July, and so she was
on the periphery of the company because she would tell
my father, well, instead of taking your clients out to dinner,
bring them home. And she would have these lavish meals
with the best china and wine and appetizers, entrede dessert
(27:19):
and she would make all of that. But she's sitting
there listening as well. So when my father had his
massive stroke and she had to step in and take
over the business, she only knew the telephone number to
the office at that time, but she knew deep inside
that she wanted to hold on for the fifth generation.
(27:42):
The city of Nashville. Other architectural firms and construction firms
at the time approached her and told her, you're a woman,
you can't run this business. You're not an architect, you're
not an engineer. Can we just buy your firm? And
it would have been easy for her just to sell,
but she's like, no, I am going to keep this
(28:05):
firm alive for my three daughters, just in case one
of them wants to come back and join it. She
had a master's degree in psychology. She's a teacher, right,
She was a teacher, a very good teacher. I've met
a lot of her students over the years, and we
like to say, at least I like to say that
(28:27):
her masters agree in psychology helped her to deal with
the manias and phobias of men who couldn't understand a
woman could run a business. So this is the eighties.
She could not borrow money. Women period could not borrow money.
Their sons, their uncles, everybody else could if you were
a man. It wasn't until nineteen ninety at the Women's
(28:48):
Business Act that was passed by Congress that she could
begin to borrow money. So she had to overcome that obstacle,
but she was masterful at it at selling business. We
went to Tuskegee University. We met with doctor Peyton and
she was opening up a new building that we had designed.
(29:12):
And doctor Peyton came over to her and it's like,
you know, Lee, when I've told you from the very beginning,
this is the South, it gets hot down here. I
need operable windows and Mom said they're not operable. He said,
not one she's she said, okay, She's like, you know what,
(29:35):
I'm going to change out every window and I'm going
to pay for it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
So now we're walking through the campus and she looks
over and she sees this old, dilapidated building. They're literally
storing lawn equipment there. She says to doctor Peyton, I
see you living there. And I'm thinking to myself, is
mom has she lost? And he's taking the same thing.
She said, no, let's go over there. It's this beautiful,
(30:03):
stately building that was just in disrepair. Beautiful couple at
the top. He commissioned her to redesign that building and
renovate it and make it his home.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
And it's called Great Columns and it's still standing on
Tusky US campus. So she fixed one problem and got another.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
A hustle from mom and daughter. Come on, now, you
know it's such a beautiful story. And again reading your book, geryld,
I know you keep going. He did read it.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
You know you didn't read it. You didn't read it.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yes, he's a you know hidden figures really popular movies.
Uh to Rogi p Henson started in it, and oftentimes
your family legacy has been tied to like the hidden
figures of construction.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Talk about that.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah, you know, it's very interesting that people walk in
the structures all day long.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
I don't care if.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
It's their grocery store, their school, their hospital, you know,
the airport, train station. They're walking into some establishment every day.
But they never think of who built this, right, And
you know, so we're trying to elevate this profession and
to brand it as a profession that can build wealth.
(31:37):
And you know, it's another alternative for our young people
to consider when they think about a career. And so
when you think about the hidden figures of the world,
you know, it wasn't until we heard that story did
we even know there were computer people acting as computers.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
But they were black women.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
And it's the same with our story. You never think
about who's building something. But then when you look further
and deeper into it, not only are the people who
are building it, you know, majority or whatever, they're black people, right,
And so that's how to me, you know, that is
the corel that's why they correlate between those two examples
(32:24):
that you just gave.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Well, you know the amazing thing. First of all, thank
you for giving me the time to talk to you
in this forum. Cheryl. You know, the book is about
history repeat itself. It's about motivation, resiliency, overcoming the odds,
uplift relationships. That because I'm talking to small business owners,
(32:48):
I'm talking to nonprofits, I'm talking about entrepreneurs. And this
book is really a must read in my eyes, yes,
because it's so many lessons to be learned and to
be told. As we close out this interview, we've discussed
a lot of amazing stories that are coming out of
this book. Just a small part of your legacy that
(33:11):
you continue today with your super hustle.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Super Hustle that's a nickname.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Because your family super hustles back then Moses and Calvin,
back in the day Moses when he's giving the first
opportunity and they were being allowed to travel in the
state of North Carolina with notes. That's the only way
slaves could get around. They would have to get a
note to travel from place to place to.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Justify the read it and so but that, But the.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Legacy of Meckissic and mckissic was William mckissicks was a
slave owner who purchased Moses when he was eleven years old,
and that started the legacy that were and today your
final thoughts.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
My final thoughts, especially for the small businesses, the nonprofits
and all of that. Like this book does talk about entrepreneurship,
and that's the beginning, but let's talk about sustainability. How
to keep it sustainable in perpetuity, you know, posterity.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Let's talk about what do you need to do for that?
Speaker 4 (34:28):
And you know I always tell business owners you got
to think about your exit.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
You got to think about your end game, because it's coming,
whether you're wanted to or not.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Succession is important, yes, and so I just want to
make sure people are really understanding that they need to
plan a succession and don't think you can do it
like the last two years that you want to work before.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
You retire, but this is something that takes ten years
to plan.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
In our world, we're creating and have created a very
strong management team. So the company now can run with
more than just me managing and telling everyone what to do.
Matter of fact, it runs without me right now. And
I don't plan to retire or step back until twenty thirty.
(35:23):
So I'm giving my plan many years to work out
all the kinks while I'm still around, and that is
what I want to say. Also want to tell people
to start doing a family tree, to start writing down
what they do know about their families.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
You know, you have to know at least two generations
at least too.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You stop that I thought to go back to street
Port Louis pun stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
You'd be surprised.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
I know, I'm I'm not surprised is the person I'm
talking to today. I am so proud of you, and
I say that with great sincerity. I'm so proud when
I'm able to talk to I like to believe living legends.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
You've established a legacy with your family and you're not stopping,
and your kids are not going to stop. You won't
let them stop because you know there's history and it's
not going to die on the vine while you're alive.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
And so twenty thirty is coming, But that doesn't mean
twenty thirty one. You don't have nothing to say.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
That's right, You've got.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
What you're doing working on.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
See my mother.
Speaker 6 (36:45):
Yes, you amazing, Thank you sir for coming to my
show in your book, My Black Family Who Built America,
The Mechistics Two Centuries of Daring pioneer Sarah mckistics Daniel
with Nick Childs.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yes, thank you for coming on Money Making Conversation, My Pleasure.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
This has been another edition of Money Making Conversations Masterclass
hosted by me Rashaan McDonald. Thank you to our guests
on the show today and thank you our listening audience. Now,
if you want to listen to any episode I want
to register to be a guest on my show, visit
Moneymakingconversations dot com. Our social media handle is money Making Conversations.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Join us next week and remember to always leave with
your gifts. Keep winning
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