Take It Personal (Ep 133: Ultramagnetic MC's Interview + LP Spotlight) with Kool Keith & Ced Gee

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, Roger the announcer here andthanks for tuning into episode one thirty three
of Taking Personal Radio. Today,we're bringing you our exclusive interview with Said
G and Kool Keith of the UltramagneticMCS. We give you the full story
of these trailblazers. We're breaking downeach album, including a special album spotlight
for the Four Horse. We talkCriminal Minded, how they regret not signing

(00:24):
the Deaf Chair, dissing run DMCand the reason for Tim Doggs fuck Compton
record. We talk Baseball, DoctorOctagon, Godfather Don and all things ultra.
Enjoy this interview episode and get readyfor our follow up Ultramagnetic Cool Keith
Tribute coming soon. And now let'sstart the show, yo, Just relax,

(00:51):
lax, last yep, donalda namename, take it out of number
right now, get tuned in totake it post taking post take it person,

(01:11):
take it, take it. I'llcome here to put y'all up for
something. Revolution It's head, don'tdoubt, don't doubt y'all to care rest
one check it out to check yourpersonal radio Stone, y'all check it out,
y'all And he didn't care, yo, Yo? What up is Black
Door From the legendary roots crew andyou check it out. Take it personal
radio radio. You'll check this outof the shober of the number one people

(01:33):
right yo, Yo, what up? This is Diamond D representing digging in
the crates right here. Or takeit person to radio. The best in
hip hop you are now checking outwith y'all know the name boy Farrell manch
you already know what it is.I want to give a big shout out.
Take your personal shows. This isChuck D. This is Flavor flay
boy, and you check it out. Take it personal. So y'all do

(01:55):
that right now. You're listening totake it personally, fitting that fly her
her jelling stuffs, under stumbing thegreen light bandage episode of EP and D.
You know, take a personal radiojust the truth to check them out,
check them out, check them out. Yo's all this great smoothly tea
checking out and take the personal checkingout. Take a personal with my people.

(02:15):
Don't care anymore about this himpartment whatyou're waiting for? You gotta stab
one man man I might check itout, your boy, I'm some certainly
right now you're checking out. Takeit personal, k take a personal personal
by y'all ladies and gentlemen right now, don't know what the fuck is about
to go on with this. Takea person with my boy full of flavor,

(02:38):
keV law he a Ron Roger theannouncer a D three sixty. When
it's staking as this is, Takeit personal and we're in the builders us.
Yeah, take a personal Radio episodeone thirty three and we are gonna

(03:00):
raise it up and hit you withthe Ultra Magnetic MC's experience. We got
none other than said g and CoolKeith joining us for a very extensive interview.
And listen, guys, we justspent five episodes in about three months
in the nineties, so we're alsogoing to stay in the nineties this episode.

(03:21):
Why the fuck not. We're gonnahit you. We're gonna hit you
with the Four Horsemen album Spotlight aswell. So we got a little bit
of this, a little bit ofthat. We got like a part two
on deck after this episode, whichis going to get more into the full
catalog of Coool Keith and Ultra magand uh, you know, I know
there's a lot of heads out therewho really you know, check for their

(03:44):
ship. They got like a cultfollowing, so I know this is gonna
please a lot of our listeners,So sit back, relax, and enjoy.
The cult following is a definite wayto describe both group and this album.
This is a cult classic. LikeI said during the interview, in
ninety three, it was one ofthe greatest years in hip hop and this
album dropped and at the time itdid not get the proper accolades. And

(04:06):
this episode is going to do that. It's gonna put a spotlight on this
particular album. We're gonna go trackfor track. What these guys heads up.
They they're unique guys, so wedon't get the same stories as we
did with JVU or the beat Nutswhen we did album Spotlight before. But
nonetheless they are very unique and theyhave some funny stories. And really go

(04:30):
into this episode as knowing that it'sgoing to be like a hangout session with
Ultra. You know, we're basicallyhanging out listening to this album, hearing
what they have to say about thisalbum, along with a bunch of other
things about you know, ultramag Imean, the interview goes on for hours,
so we decided to give you someaction packed extra large Ultra experience,

(04:51):
and the very next episode is goingto be our tribute to the Ultra Magnetic
MCS and Cool Keith, So staytuned. I can't wait to get into
this. They are one of myfavorites. I know you're gonna let them
know, guys, we could certainlydone this for Critical feat Down, Fumped
Your Head Up, four Horsemen,all have great tracks worthy of discussion.

(05:12):
All of these records, very consistentUltramagnetic MCS. I know you guys are
hyped for this one. First ofall, the album covers alone truly dope.
Just looking at the photos definitely makesyou want to cop the record.
I know, Aaron, you talkedabout that the last time we were speaking
of doubt. But one thing allof these records had. They had great
skits. The sequencing made you listenfrom start to finish. That was that

(05:35):
Ultramagnetic MC's little niche, and thisone was the one crew that stood out
to me. Really odd guys.But they also had like the strange pop
appeal to it. You know,they learned how to get the attention of
college people, they learned how toget the attentions of the true hip hop
heads. They got the abstract one. So Ultra was so ahead of its

(05:58):
time. Keith was ically doing shitlike nobody else. And let's be honest,
said she was ahead of his timesonically. Just remember the record Said
was a part of Criminal Mind atBDP. Come on, Tim Dog,
that was a big record. Whetheryou guys listened to it that much back
then, it's definitely matured. Saidwas also a major, major part of

(06:19):
all the Ultramagnetic MC albums. Soall those collective elements made this group.
End this album, the four Horsemenwe're gonna be talking about worthy of this
album Spotlight. It's really cool.We got to break bread with this group
and we sat down with them,and you guys are gonna love this one,
trust I was. I was soshocked during the interview that I didn't
say one fucking word this this isgonna be a bat him and a bam.

(06:46):
We're chilling for a few weeks beforeyou turn. Actually, for me,
guys, this group represents the ultimatein the underground classic hip hop.
The nod to baseball and the negroleagues very prevalent on the album stands out
to me. You got the Chattanoogalook Outs hat on the cover. That's

(07:08):
that's the team, right, Ithink that's who it is is It stood
out to me every time, remember, and then just and then again we
talk. You guys brought it up. The covers, the album covers alone
make you buy the album and listen. When we were kids, man and
our teams and stuff, the covermeant everything. If the cover was whack,
you're not buying the album. Ifyou're looking for underground hip hop and

(07:28):
somebody look whack on the cover,you're not buying the album. Ultramagnetic always
had the cool ass covers that drewyou in, and then when you listen
to it, you're never disappointed.They had three bangers on this album that
I listened to to this day.Raise it up. Three brothers with checks
two one, I'm sorry giving away, you're giving You're giving away too much
money? Are yeah? Two brotherswith checks and a one two one two

(07:51):
on the playlist to this day,Classic shit forever. These guys are innovators.
Let's give it up, Ultramagnetic,Let's get into it. Let's go.
I want to earn a chance atwinning our a tribe called Quest box
set. Simply post yourself with ournew Marauders t shirt, coffee mug,

(08:11):
or any new item from our storeand you'll be entered to win and if
you don't have one of our twoamazing new shirts, they're now on sale
and or online store. When youvisit take a personal Radio dot com and
if you enter promo code Ultra,you'll even say fifteen percent off your order.
We still got plenty more to discuss, like Cutmaster, Kurt Black,

(08:33):
Elvis and Setne Keith's brand new Ultraout. All right, ladies and gentlemen,

(09:20):
we have two special guests. Wehave your rap group's favorite rap group,
if I will, I mean,this is probably one of the most
innovative and influential groups to ever gracethe MIC's. I mean, it doesn't
matter who you're talking to. Whenyou think of the golden era of hip
hop, the Pioneers, you haveto think Ultra Magnetic m season. We

(09:43):
have my man said g and CoolKeith on the mic. How you doing,
guys, How you do? There'sso much we want to talk about.
We kind of want to go reallyquick of how you guys formed.
I know it was in the inthe eighties, but really you two went
to school together. I know therewas different members kind of we've been in
and out throughout the years until youdropped on next plateau. But give us

(10:07):
a quick breakdown of how Ultra reallybecame Ultra. Well, it started with
Keith because I was I was inthe basketball a lot and I it was
dj and as a hobby. Thenuh Keith and was working up with my
brother and Keyboard money Might and uhyou know, I was a DJ and

(10:31):
uh Keith and who he was workingwith, they needed the DJ, so
I started dj and for them,and uh you know, the rap started
changing because when Keith was first comingto the studio, my brother's little cor
track studio, rap was in thestage where they was using commercial jingles,

(10:54):
you know, so Keyboard money Mightwas prominent because you know, he was
very musical and he can play allthose jingles. You tell him the jingle,
he'll play. But then a thinghappened in rat you know, uh
mc shan dropped the bridge and thenyou know the rock sand and those were

(11:16):
using samples, so the overall commercialjingle theme was out the window and it
was now back to the streets.That's where I came in because like,
uh, Mike was just musical,so Keith wanted like a harder production,
you know, less less music,more drums. So that's when uh.

(11:41):
I started taking over and learning howto produce from Mike, you know,
just basic stuff, how to usea machine, you know, stuff like
that. But that's how we basicallyformed. And then Keith came up with
the name and the rest was that. Where'd the name come from? How'd
you come up with that? UltraMagnetic? I just you know, we

(12:05):
used out there. You know,we was just looking for a name.
Everybody was, you know, differentnames back in the days. Everybody had
like regular names, so we wasjust trying to come out with a futuristic
name. So I just named thegroup Ultra. Then I said magnetic magnetic
highest form to a track, Ultrahigh end and magnetic to a track.

(12:26):
So it kind of was a goodname because it crossed with sci fi and
all the you know, all theelevation. We was doing the big words
and universal stuff, and it waslike, you know, back then,
I was watching the Transformers on TVand they had all the you know,
megatron you know, so Ultramagnetic fellright into the spot. After you said,

(12:54):
kind of left being the DJ andwent it more into production. Tell
me about the story. You guysalmost had Showbiz as your as your DJ.
Is that correct? Man? Showbids used to make mixtapes like takes
and stuff like that. Then youknow, everybody in the Bronx was like
living close by each other, soyou know that was like that could have

(13:16):
been so easily. He was gonnabe a DJ, but I think he
had a lot of stuff to do, so you know, he was more
staying in the Bronx and doing whathe did. You know, sometimes showbiz
would be he would he would bedoing some music sometimes and then he'd buy
fading and something else or stuffing.But most of the time he was doing
music. But I think, youknow, he was traveling in and out

(13:37):
of town, so he didn't havetime. I think, yeah, he
was involved in in another lifestyle inthe street game. You want to buy
some tooth plushes man, there's somereal fly personal hygiene equipment. I got
here, man, and I gottahell of a hand. Ryan Chicken out.
That's how d I T Studios cameabout. Said, let me ask
you this because you obviously most peoplewill not like I shouldn't say most people,

(14:01):
the people that are true hip hopaficianados know that you are very much
an intricate part of Criminal Minded,which came out in eighty seven before we
kind of get on that Critical Beatdowncame out in eighty eight, right,
I mean that's pretty much like twos fortified classics. I mean, if
you're talking about the blueprint of theof the Golden era, those two albums

(14:24):
of people immediately go to. WhatI'm curious to know, though, was
when was Critical Beatdown actually created?I know it came out in eighty eight,
but what's something that was done yearsprior? And how close was it
to the work with Criminal Minded.It was done in eighty eight, But
the thing what happened was was wehad just so many singles and promos that

(14:50):
when it came time to when next, Plateau finally said, you know,
do an album, If we hadput all the singles and promos on there,
there would have been no new music, you know. So so that's
why it was all new. Youknow. We we just started recording because
we used to just pump out singlesand if we if it wasn't a single,

(15:13):
it was a promo, you know, from Bait to the Chill Out
promo to Awesome Too. I mean, we had so many promos that people
like Wilt Chill Out, the UltiMagnetic sympathetic, economic, chill to Night

(15:39):
with Chill Out, and then wehad you know, B sides, so
it would have been no new music, so it was all new now being
our Next Plateau. How was thatsharing like a label with someone like Herbie
love Bug and Salt and Pepper.I mean, did they have the vision

(16:00):
of always trying to create these thesemega groups with big success, commercial crossover
and then here comes ultramag you knowthey're putting out more underground sound changing shit
up? How did that go?As far as you're concerned with how they
were handling you, I mean,I know it was Uptown management, but
Next Plateau was a label. Imean they were doing like old school,

(16:22):
like you know, b boy anthems, whether it was C Bank or like
I said, Salt and Pepper.So like, where did you guys feel
like? Did you fit in?Did you not fit in? Yeah,
we've sited in, but uh,you know I later was on any staff
at Next Plateau, but uh,and that's when he started revealing things to

(16:42):
me, and he was honest.He said, Uh, I basically signed
you guys because y'all was so hoton the street that all I had to
do was just get the record inthe stores, so there was no need
to really promote or anything. Youknow, y'all guys sold your own records.

(17:03):
So you know when I when itcame from promotion, I knew really
of the commercial stuff. And that'swhy I put all the promotion in Salt
and Pepper. I really, Ireally didn't get you guys. I knew
the beats were incredible and stuff likethat, but I didn't get you guys.
So you know, he said hisson used to tell them about us

(17:26):
and stuff like that. But uh, every label we signed to, they
basically just shipped our normal amount ofunits and it was like they made their
money, you know, and that'sall they was concerned with. They wasn't
concerned about taking the group to anotherlevel. Right. So before we get
into this new era of when youguys kind of made some critical tracks,

(17:51):
Jay mentioned the Criminal Minded album.Now we had care Us one on here
and we talked very lengthy. Iwant you to kind of clear up the
rumors about the folklore. You know, Uh, when creating Criminal Minded,
did you or did you not mysteriouslyslide a reel of Marley's drum samples,
which kind of opened up a newworld for you. I put it.

(18:19):
I had break beats before Molly Marreven knew where to break beat. Oh
shit, okay, there it is. Well that's what made it comic.
Call Chris. If you know ChrisBy, now, Chris is he likes
the story. Yeah, he's ahe's a sensational storyteller, and he likes

(18:40):
to rile people up. He especiallyHe's always like to roll up Marley,
Right, So he was just sayingthat to get under their skin. There
wasn't. I mean, first ofall, I was working. I had
no time just to be lurking aroundPower Place Studio for no reason. I
mean that's you know that I hadto pay for SB twelve out of my

(19:03):
own pocket. So I mean,well, how do I do that lurking
around Power Place Studio still thrills ofbright beat samples? Would that I already
have? Thanks for that? Clearup? Yeah, I was always I
was always in that mindset of howit went down, So I kind of
created my own scenario there. Soso this has got to be one of

(19:25):
the only shows in the country whereyou got both sides of the story from
both from the story the originals.Yeah, there's so much I want to
talk about. But before we getto like the next error critical Beatdown,
I think this is an album thatinitially when it first came out, and
I don't want to date myself,but you know, it seemed like it

(19:45):
put some people a certain amount oftime to get it. Put the helmet
chapters because the chamis tess a movie, the crowd of things side in the
pe because the beat to so fuckingto place as well. And see I

(20:12):
don't know if I had to dowith the label or just promotion what have
you. But when it when itcame out, when you finally put this
record together, did you know thatit was going to leave such an impression
and become so influential because of theway you are very cognizant of how you

(20:32):
guys produced the album, how youguys started to rhyme where it was very
very unorthodox compared to what was currentlyout at that time. We didn't know,
like, we didn't have a destinytowards critically. It came out how
it came out and it ended uphow it ended It was just so funny.

(20:55):
You know, we went through maybeone two bad records before we put
out that album, but you knowthat album became you know whatever. It
became the sensation and all the wayto Rolling Stones Top fifty album every year,
which is crazy. We didn't knowtop one hundred for years and years.

(21:17):
And the reason why I took awhile to catch on was, I
don't know, if you remember,we were one of the last groups at
that time to have a video.We never had any videos. I was
just about to ask you that Idon't remember a video for that album,
and you had some bangers on there, like the one that really caught my

(21:37):
attention where I discovered you was EgoTripping. I think I heard it on
a mixtape or something. I didn'teven know who it was. I'm like,
who the fuck is this? Igotta find it, And then finally
found it, and I'm like,I don't even know who this is,
but it's great because there's no video. It's not on your MTV raps.
This is what I'm saying. Wehad a We were so high on the

(22:00):
street that the you know, Eddiewas just content with just putting it out
and let it do what it dowith it. You know, you make
money that way. He was makingmoney without spending money. So it wasn't
until Uptown came in and said,come on, you gotta get these guys
a video. Man, me,everybody has a video. They don't put

(22:22):
out what ten singles and no video? Like you said, no one knew
how we look, right, peopleprobably learned how we look through the record.
Yeah, the cover great, Yeah, the liner notes all that is
how people saw you got people recognizedthrough the album. Yeah, you buy
it straight up looking at the albumcover. I know when I was fourteen,
I see that album cover. I'mbuying it now, Keith real quick

(22:45):
on that particular record, He's back, you go off something like amazing on
there, like great vocal samples throughoutthat track. You know people have sampled
through the years, but even goingback now, there's like so many that
no one's even touched. So talkto me. Is you know is that
one particular track on that record whereyou feel like you almost kind of carved

(23:10):
your lane as this lyricist that kindof went in a different direction because I
wanted like that, I got itlike that, I have it like that,
I need it like that. It'sbetter like that I made it like
that, I bought it like that. I'm living like that form you whacking
seas who going the mic and blowingthe mic and perpetrate frauds and make the
mistakes like a Hammetton. But I'ma twenty yet better and better than including

(23:32):
the rest of them. I drewhim more. I split up the best
of the one by one. I'mteaching my son to ease back, and
and he's back, and he's back. I think housing things. I went
off on a Housing Things and saidsame questions. I know that whether you

(23:56):
were influenced by the Bomb Squad orthe Bomb Squad was influenced by you.
I know, Pe released Nation ofMillions earlier that year. I mean,
did you have the grunt sample thatwas in reverse like ed Japanic or was
that off their album? Well whathappened is we we had it and we
reversed it. But they came outwith their album first, right, and

(24:18):
since and since publicanting me was youknow, was using our samples, we
said, hey, let's just usethis all right? So yeah, because
I thought I heard flavor in thebackground with the go go, but that's
why we use it. I hearyou you had the go go on there.
We said, hey, well let'skeep the go go. Yeah,

(24:40):
yeah, yeah, go go sobecause you know, back then it was
like whoever put it out first?It was like a whole misnomer. No
one knew. They were like,all right, it's cemented, it's the
first, it's the first listens,you know, right to say it's their's
creatively. So what made it funnywas we thought we were being clever by

(25:00):
reversing it, like hey, reversebecause you know, you get you had
that reverse function. So we waslike if we reverse it, and then
we heard it with the Goo goo, I was like that was dope for
sure. That night it was funny. It was funny. I mean,
you like TV used to travel,used to go to record companies and and

(25:26):
just you know, Trevor was goodat just I don't I wouldn't say still
and he was just following people's albumsbefore they come out and trap we have
all the death Jam stuff. Andone time we was just riding down the
highway before they came out the blueprintof this stuff. We was listening to
like my Oozy weight Ton and wewas like, you know this before he

(25:47):
was out for them when they wascoming out, he was like, who
is this coming out? Like afather had like good, you know,
good. You know, we waslistening to you know, stuff that was
coming out on that first album thatlike, I think they had that single
out, what's that? Yeah,but we got me number one that getting
favorable, So we were like,you know, we didn't ask to hear

(26:08):
it. Trevor would always getting inthe car in the level, were riding
down, check us up. Let'scheck these out, and we like face
ton all kinds and stuff. He'slike, oh about the guys, It's
just like us, but they're amilitary version of us. So we was
like, so, you know,that was the only thing with us was

(26:29):
on the next plateau, and wereached national slowly because Eddie and them was
distributing region by region and they wasmore dropping national with death Cham. So
eventually we got across country and aroundAmerica, so they they kind of more
had better distribution. Yeah, Ithink you guys could have been label mates

(26:52):
at one point, Ain't that right? Said? Well, we was,
and that right said yeah a coupleof times. See, I don't regret
anything me and Keith did in theindustry. There are no artists who've done
by themselves with no no See,even though Uptown was managing us, they

(27:14):
didn't get us any deals. Wegot all our deals ourselves. Yeah,
we've always got deals ourselves. Butthe one thing I do regret, and
Keith was the first to point itout, is when we chose Uptown over
Death Jam because le All, uh, you know, lee All wanted us

(27:37):
really, he really liked the groupand his idea was to pull us off
the next plateau, and especially afterwe release Funky. He was crazy.
He was like, that's it hit, what's up? What I'm gonna take

(27:59):
it into my op A band sendingthis on Trump on you going hard,
back to backnotes, get with it, take off the coach, meditate,
let's the brain compel, just thinkas to be an excelled to your head,
trumps for self to enough and freezewhile I break off and eats real
smooth. Combine the piano my boy'snames on. No sub planel is needed

(28:25):
to get overhead it and burn whilethe technique turn for the ul that He's
alright, age you gotta copy,watch the record, play fight more spin
it. Every day you wake upand try to make up a room that
fear me And let me tell youstraight, I know you hear me.
And when I'm on the stage.You just cheer me. I'm for another
level down me. Look, I'mgoing with the Devil in a cage.

(28:49):
I'm on the rampage. You needanother one, another age site that's a
hit record, and it's just goingto waste, he says, And signed
with Uptown and it was the thatwas the one mistake that if I had
to do it over, we hada lot of tension because we had a

(29:11):
big meeting of them trying to getus off. Next Plateau that was the
big you skipped that was with Mercurywith but it was I think Lee all
talked to Eddie, right, No, Andre, Eddie Andre, Andre,
that's right, Andre talking to what'shis name, Tony Anderson at at PolyGram

(29:37):
at So how was it with withwith Herrell and it was Puffy there at
the time as a protege, Imean, how was it just kind of
like with that particular label was yeah, yeah, yeah, the big Artist
was heavy back then, right,yep. Was there any animosity because you
know, there's a lot of relationsbetween Russ and uh def ja him with

(30:00):
the subliminal shot if you will atrun DMC, you know, was there
any discussion or tension that you feltand those meetings are prior because of because
of those words. No, whenwe when we first put Eagle Tripping out
and we had a big show atUnion Square, Russell Sittings was buying me

(30:22):
and Keith drinks at the bar,So it never ever came up in conversation.
I mean, you guys went afterlike the Titans of hip hop and
the same baby tempt to come andjoint, right, but the rhymes are
apathetic that they think what was setused the nurse and returns at least note
it was no disrespect. It wasjust like two basketball teams coming together to

(30:45):
have the game. You know.It wasn't like we said they was garbage
or something. We just came atthem. DMC said, I love the
record. DMC said, I loveHe's He's a true He's the true dude.
Though, you know, I lovethat record. I mean that was
the only record we went at.Run DMC was with, you know,
I mean that was the only record. I mean, we it was like

(31:07):
that album was still battling more atMCS than ever on that album. Run
DMC just happened to be the beginningof Eagle Trip. That was it,
But we had more you know thealbum had we was battling the type.
You know, we was going againstthe Titans on that album. Everybody that
album, you know, all throughoutthe album, even Tamo Love's scratch record,

(31:32):
was a battle with DJs. Tobe honest to it just wasn't really
a shot at Run DMC. Itwas kind of preparing people for the vocabulary
there was about to hear yeah,you were there. We was letting them
know it was gonna be no youknow, basic basic language in there.
So it was kind of like thepredecessor where Running Them came across because they

(31:56):
were you know that Peter Piper wasso hot. Everybody knew it. So
when you make the reference to everyonewould know what you were saying. You
know, what's funny about us asa group, not only with the Run
DMC, you know, just itwas just that the records we made.
You know, everybody had disrecords outback then and different kind of disrecords,

(32:20):
but it had brought a lot ofjealousy upon us to this day, Like
you got a lot of groups wholeanimosity towards those those records that what we
wrote and said, you know,and it's it's just the past, just
music, like said, I said, it was good sportsmanship, but they
still to this day still hold itas personal. For some reason, a

(32:42):
lot of people hold it personal.We made records just like everybody else made
dis records back and forth, buta lot of people took our records more
personal later when they weren't personal.See personal is like when uh when Tim
Dogg went at uh well one afteryou know the Jewice Crew, you know

(33:07):
rock saying chantagne, you know Steadysuckingly figuring out a magic for sucking rock
chap for Steady is really only freshsaid, I tell you now, you
ain't None of those were disrespects.We just said the hell with childish rhymes.
You see what I'm saying. That'sthat's not like saying they're not good.

(33:30):
Do you see what I'm saying.There's elevation but yeah, and all
fairness said, you are a partof two of the craziest disc records in
the history of hip hop. Sofor you to say this and put out
the bridges over and fuck Compton,I don't know, man, you gotta
think like you know what you're doing. You know what I'm saying, Uh

(33:52):
all to be honest, Uh fuckCompton? Tim came up with the title,
but the whole idea of going afterthem was who had left Uptown Management.
His name was Kurt Juice, KurtWoodley. He was working over at
Sony and I was shopping Tim andhe said, Hey, said, I'll

(34:15):
tell you how to get Timid dealhave them. This the motherfucker's from the
West Coast, and I'll get youa demo budget. So we came in
with the rougher fuck Compton guy,that's the demo budget. We went in
the studio, did it, andthe rest was history. There's the seed
right there, ladies and gentlemen.Hey, one thing I noticed as we

(34:37):
start to wrap up the critical beatdowntalk, when you when you listen to
the album today, the sound qualityand you know, thinking back this thirty
five years ago now, the soundquality is excellent. And a lot of
albums even into well into the midnineties had sound quality issues. This album
sounds excellent. The bass hits inthe car crisp, it sounds great.

(35:01):
I know Paul c was an engineerfor a lot of this, and I
had some maybe some hands in someproduction. Tell us a little bit about
how that came together with you,you know, having pauls in the studio
as an engineer and so forth.Well, we were always fortunate to work
with good h engineers when it cameto the album, because we had enough

(35:25):
bad engineers we could go through alot of stories. But but uh,
you know the first engineer we worked, well, he was incredible, but
he committed suicide. He's the onewho engineered eagle tripping. That was Bill
Hemmy. He worked at Clappi glappycamefamous from Eagle tripping and then that's the

(35:45):
signings started working in there. Theydid go stets in there. Then milk
was chilling, you know, Lappestarted growing up. But uh, Bill
Hemmy. Then we went to Paulafter Bill committed the suicide. Bill was
the Chinese guy, right, helooked in Chinese. He was from Canada.

(36:07):
Paul was. I was actually doinga project for Aaron Fuchs at Tough
City. So when I went totwelve twelve, me and Paul just started
showing each other's our different techniques thatyou cannot find an any SB twelve manual,

(36:28):
you see what I'm saying. LikePaul showed me how the truncake,
quickly I showed them how I washad all these effects when there were no
effects in that machine. You know, echoes and ease and all types of
stuff that I did, you know, just just off guerrilla tactics, and
we just bonded from there. Thenhe proceeded to start showing me how to

(36:54):
work aboard at the studio and youknow, work the patch bays and all
of this, and then you know, he started, you know, working
with him here. He started showingme. Uh, you know, it
got funny because it would be certaintimes like and fuks. He was like
a budget record label, so hewould do something like he'll be paying Paul

(37:19):
a lower hourly rate and he'll beyou know, and I'll be basically getting
change. So being Paul would bedoing like a half assed job. And
then Paul would say, Cobo said, we gotta do a little better than
this, so our name's gonna goon. And so we got baking at
least decent, and then it justgrew. We used just started doing things.

(37:43):
And you know, Paul was funky, and that's why he has production
on the album. Helped with alot of things. Uh. He he
understood the direction of the group withouteven telling because the whole idea of Ultrio
was ultimately for Keith to do hissoul, and I'd worked my way up

(38:04):
there. And but you see,that was the whole idea, Like Ultra
was like the house, you knowwhat I'm saying, like the foundation.
That's how the whole intent always was. And Paul on this without even telling
them, But I think so afew people had Trump machines themselves that if
you had two years head start,you understood the limited sample time, how

(38:29):
to speed that up on forty fivespeed, all the breakdowns, and all
the intricacies that made editing inside theactual you know what they called a MIDI
studio at the time, but youknow, inside of the machine, you
learned all these little tricks. Andit was even two years headstart was enough.
So guys like Paul Cy, peoplelike you said, I mean it

(38:51):
was, it was really something special. But that's me twelve on. He
had five seconds to make sounds.That's the second. That's the conversion.
I think the first one had likeone point five. Yeah, you go,
and I would take that. Iwould take that one point five and
make it sound like it had tenseconds. And right, Yeah, by
speeding stuff up, I actually justchopped everything up and recreate it and made

(39:15):
it down like the record. Seethat's where a lot of producers can't do.
They can't they can't chop up theelements and make it sound like a
fluid loop. Right. See,that's that's an art. If they chop
it up, you will listen toit and say, yeah, that's the
record, but it's chopped and it'sit's kind of choppy. Yeah. I

(39:37):
think when you have limitations, youyou learn to be your most creative.
When you got these whole walls ofequipment, it's it's endless. You can
tweak a snare for for five hours. It's just not worth it. So
you know, well, I'm gladwe touched on Paul C because I think
I would be remiss if we didn'tmention him at least once he was People

(39:59):
kind of compare him to like theearly Della before, you know, like
a guy who was just very muchahead of his time. But before we
jump to the next album, youmentioned Aaron Tough City. I gotta ask
you, can we can we getthe clarification these records here. I don't
know if you guys could see right, Oh yeah, I see the basebook,

(40:20):
Say what in the fuck happened?Because I know there was a lot
of different stories. How did thesecome about? Check it said, gee,
bringing you the ultramagnetic Basement Tage byone st number one. We didn't

(40:44):
want see those are the tracks thatwe weren't using. We were just sitting
in a round. So and said, hey, let's do some novelties.
And you know those are just noveltyalbums because these came out and what maybe

(41:08):
ninety four ninety five, this wasbefore I think four Horsemen album right here,
one of these came out in ninetysix. Actually New York is what
is funky Smack my bitch up?Now? Did this come out? Get
actually released? After you guys?Uh? After he's sampled on the potot

(41:29):
Joe? I know what, yo, just like first of your dolts.
Ah fuck it. I'm like,see the problem man, Fuck the bitch
that has no style. Man,I'm mega pimp, the biggest pip in
New York. Everywhere I go tofollow, whether I fork on Madison,
I'll pull a hole in my coldvoice to store my mansion because the rose
Joys of Large. Let me callup the president. Oh, Michael Jackson's

(41:52):
for Frank's are not Shu with twoand Jimvillion dollars. Baby, I've got
shut the hot dog. I takea coke and a frank. Even if
you sack come a food. Whatthe fuck do you like? Nelly Billy
walking around? Smell a piss?Smelly actually came out before, because I
know the record obviously came out waybefore. But I'm saying this this vinyl

(42:12):
itself. Was it something that wasreissued up and done to I guess jump
on the hype of the Smack MyBitch Up. No, No, that's
no, that was that was justput out. But here's the story.
What you're talking about that record,Smack My Bitch Up, which is on

(42:34):
that album. Yeah, we hadsent that to Tim Westwood in London.
Okay, So now when Prodigy useKeith, Tim Westwood made a sample claim,
Oh really okay, yeah, hesaid, Cedric, they're calling me
from from the label. They're sayingsomebody said they had the rights to it.

(43:00):
I said, I said, Eddie, that's Tim Westwood. He bootlegged
the record without permission. Tell him, tell him to shut up or he
will be sued. And that wasthe last you heard of Tim Wastswood.
Was there ever any compensation for allthat. No, Tim Wastswood, That's
what Tim Wastswood did. He hewould take your stuff early, like like

(43:24):
he asked us to send some stuffover. We sent it over and then
he brought us out there to dosome shows. And people was asking us
to do those records, and theyweren't like records, you see what I'm
saying. Yeah, of course,so they was like, yo, what
are you going to do? MCchampions? What you going to do?

(43:45):
How you know about MC champions?That's crazy? And he he was just
playing them and then he bootlegged themand put them out and made you know,
made his little money, you know. And then you know, see
people like Tim Wassonwood. That's likethe bad side of the music. When
you talk about the polls, thethose are like, you know, the

(44:07):
gods of of the industry. Thenyou talk about the Tim Westwood, he's
like the filth of the industry.See what I'm saying, The original,
the original Vlad. Yeah, afterall of that, that's good bootlegging.
After all that bootlegging, We'll getout to London and he can't get us
thirty seconds on the head the promotershow, right, the puppet master as

(44:31):
they say, so yeah, here'sa sea. I say, hey,
you guys, I got you gotfive minutes, you know, plug it,
get it in and get it out, you know, after all that
pipping, but when no one justhas no kind of conscious, you know,
a dirt bag. This is thetype of stuff you get, dirt

(44:52):
bag. I'm ready and now it'smy turn to build up. Let me
get swipt, then drift off anddo my own thing. Switch up,
change my pitch up, snap mypitch up. Him. So let's jump
to ninety two. You're on anew label, Keith. I want you
to tell me right now, inyour honest opinion, when you see this
album, what do you think?Because I'm going to tell you from a

(45:15):
fan standpoint what I think, butI want to know from you, the
guy who created this album, whatdo you think? You know? It
was funny. I listened to Fuckyour Head Up the other like the other
night. I think people had onein that album to be critical beat down
but funk albums. It was anotherroute to a major but it wasn't it.

(45:37):
The sound well happened? We fuckahead up. I liked it.
After a while, I listened throughit in mind and my headphones the other
night. Really, you know,played it and it was sounding so clearly
mixed, and you know funk Radioand the skits, and I think Funk
Your Head Up was our first albumof like critical Beatdown didn't have too many
skits. I think Funky had itwas our first album with skits connecting skits

(46:00):
like a story. And after awhile I started to appreciate that album.
I was like, Wow, it'snot a bad album. This this is
a classic kind of with with theporno star and fucking Cards on them.
I think that's the album that madeeverybody mad at us because we was just
so like a rebel on the album, like Plucking Cards went at every artist.

(46:22):
I think Fucking Cards really made theindustry matter us cause we was more
outcasts because we we had original outcastsfrom the group outcasts. We are the
littical outcasts because you know, wewasn't clicked up with you know when when
you had everybody was kind of clickedup, you know, the Boogey monsters.

(46:43):
Everybody and said love X and MFdoom uh, the Trial call Quests,
dayl Soul and Bust, the Rhymesand the leaders of the New School.
They was clicked up and then youknow you had the fresh best big
Daddy came Ken, you know whoeverHoudini was on the LLL and all the

(47:06):
artists from that you lead on thosefresh fresh towards kidn't play blah blah blah.
So we was like kind of byourselves because fresh rest was public and
me and all the slick rick thatyou fresh, so we wasn't. We
didn't have We didn't click up withanybody. There was one unit by ourselves
we didn't have like we was ina part of no click and none of

(47:27):
the three, four or five clicksthey had. So I think people was
mad that we didn't click up withanybody. We was just a neutral group
like only we had. It wastim and calist, but we was neutral.
I think people were mad at usthat we were so strong that we
didn't and that hurt us to theday. I think even with the shows,

(47:47):
and you know because mostly a lotof those people that are still doing
those shows and still the people fromthose clicks and those people that handled their
business, the funking had to playeda big part and the structure of where
we had took a stand in ourselvesof defense and our album. Like they
were so jealous of that album,like you know those are the like said,

(48:10):
stop jop docting me girl, allthe records of Pats singing, and
you know said we did you know, given the production with solid productions,
but all up keep pace. Looksee what you see the songs hitching plucking
cards, stop jocking me funk radio. There's no solid production on those tracks.

(48:32):
See that's why I didn't like thealbum. If if they didn't see
see I said certain Paul was adope producer, solid productions with trash.
They destroyed a lot of the records. They they only did one song,
you forgot. They put elements ona lot of tracks. They fucked up
in the champions that cartoons shit,I want to come back to or bring

(48:58):
this track to or chopping the funkrunning. It ain't next door sex Door
vextor the Lyric expector x ray VisionContector elect or mex door store. Yes,
yes, h yeah, I don'tstop the getting drop the hit the
top to make the swing a pop. That's O POI ro. They fucked
up a lot of records with thatcartoon shit. Well, I mean you

(49:21):
know that I was the right albumback to the day. I had listened
to it as a whole, likeI didn't even I kind of blocked what
everybody did out, Like I couldlisten to the album all the way through
without fast forwarding, Like it's justthe skits were so dope on the album,
and you listen to it like theskit to make you forget about different
types of production. It just youknow, the skits were so dope on

(49:44):
that album. The way that thetracks connected like an electric chord to each
other, That's what was I wasthinking about the best skit album. Every
features we Spin were the first userand you know all those different skits,
the kung Fu and the CBS radioshows and you know real news and all

(50:07):
that stuff, the skits and thatstuff spurring from Automator to all kinds of
groups using those kinds of things ontheir records, from anything from television,
PBS, uh, kung Fu.You know, I didn't hear no kung
fu and no records, And atthat time, I didn't hear no news.

(50:31):
I didn't hear what you noticed littlesounds on Octagon and the skits.
Like after that album, it starteda wave of people say, oh,
we could put television on records.We could put space programs on records.
We could put you know, thebeginning of Lost in Space. We could

(50:51):
put the beginning of the Kung Furecord on the record. It was no
records with none of that stuff outPeople don't want to say nothing about out
it, right. I think also, if you were a latchkey kid and
you watched a lot of TV,whether it was kung Fu theater, you
know, whether it was all thisshit that was on after school, I
mean, if you grew up thatway, all that stuff represents inside the

(51:15):
rhymes uh skits. So I reallydo think that that plays a very very
big part for those creative minds thatdo shit like that, right, I
mean, that album to me madepeople upset like it was just going.
It was we was going out thereeverybody. It was a high lyrical performance
record and then slowing down to likesmooth rapping and then the girls and porn

(51:38):
or stuff and stop jocking me andI like your style. I think that
was the most transitional, flexible,lyrical record we did with you know,
dope skills, you know, eventhe moment love going on one and two.
It's the masterpiece, Like MO wasthe crafty deep Day like I didn't
even hear no D Day do nothinglike that ever, No DJ, I

(52:00):
don't care if you could go tothe top of the line DJs across the
country for him to put a masterpiece together like that, I didn't have
nobody put a mixed record together likethat. I don't care. From the
top five d days in the US, top live DJs in the Europe,
top DJs in Australia, I neverheard that DJ put a record together like

(52:24):
that, never ever in my life. I think the album has a lot
of great moments. You mentioned obviouslythe obvious joints bust the facts. There's
there's a lot of joints on herethat you could say from a lyrical standpoint,
we're fucking awesome. Like two weeksago, I swear I was like,
this album is slept on hard.It was dope. It was a
sleeper one thing they wanted the industrywanted to bury the album because of honestly,

(52:50):
plucking cards. Was like they wantedto tuck that record under the rug,
like I mean the whole album basically, they you know, it was
just we was we was just sodone, am inflexible? Did you guys
see a crazy bump in sales onceuh you remix Papa Large with Deep Minus
remix Papa Large because people probably thoughtinitially when they heard that joint in it,

(53:14):
they had been the first time alot of people heard Ultra Gay must
have thought that song was on Funkyour head up and the original person happened
to be on it. Did yousee a spike in sales at the time?
What original paper Large was in noneof the mixes. It wasn't even
the Beep minus. It wasn't eventhe one that Solid productions. It was

(53:34):
the original one. Was we usedBatman from Prince like the original Paper Large
to mean nobody would want to Theywould sucking pull their hair out off the
head if they heard. I wouldn'tthink using Batman was a good choice,
But I hear you. That's whatgot us all our the record deal was

(53:57):
that song. Really the problem waswas that Prince wanted one hundred percent of
the song. That's the only reasonwe weren't able to use it. He
didn't want fifty, he didn't wantsixty, he didn't want seventy, he
didn't want eighty, he didn't wantninety. He wanted the full gamut.
I always thought that Batman track thathe did was terrible, but you know

(54:20):
that's just because I was the waywe did it. Yeah, we shopped,
I chopped So is that available anywhereon someone's cassette tape somewhere. No,
it was hard to find that.You know, the Chief was riding
in. He just you know,it was like a masterpiece. We did
it in Philly and it was justrecord labels were going crazy over it.

(54:45):
It was like, oh man,it was we had we had like the
West Coast PolyGram and and another labelthings. They all wanted that record.
That's crazy, man, because itwas basically ultramagnetic magic. Uh. He
just showed up in Philly. Hejust came in. He had the Prince

(55:07):
reckon in his hand. He was, you'll said, put this ship up,
but I'm here to tell you there'ssomething else. The Afterwills. You
know, I chopped it up,did a little variation, made it a
little little spicy funking. I thinkthat's why Prince was really kind of,

(55:29):
you know, hard driven on it. He didn't want to so called be
shown up on it. I thinkpersonally, a better interpolation of what he
did created. Yeah, I gotno proof of that. That's just my
personal belief. And he killed itand everyone went crazy like so, so

(55:49):
when they was like, we can'tclear it, we can't use it,
I didn't want to touch it anymore. And that's when they let Solid Productions
do it, and I want waswanted to cry and the Solid Productions version
and thank god for the beat Misescame in and saved it. Yeah.
Thanks, How did that? Howdid that go down? Well? That

(56:12):
was one of the finally good thingsthey did at Mercury after waste, after
you know, bringing forcing Salid Productionsand they you know, he went out
and found the beat Mises. Andpeople may think it's a different group.
Yeah, the beat Misers might belike christ the Christmas version of the beat
Miners them right, Yes, misterWalt Evil d H. Black Sheet Cake

(56:39):
was coming out when you could getwith that and the right bass thing was
starting to happen, and then itwas like a right time and it was
like they came out with that andthen it was like when they made paper
large like that was like a therecord fit right into the format of the
upright bass was coming. And thenlike all the records with the the upright

(57:02):
sound and them. So it waslike that records jumped off and it was
like a it was just an uprightcraze going off. And then what Papa
Lodge was so length a hard versionof that upright based type of stuff,
and then the lyrics locked in together. It became a cessation smash. You

(57:22):
know. Papa Large was a smashbecause it went right behind. You could
get with this, you can getwith that, so you know, but
Papa Large was kind of mean jazz, you know, dif add like a
melodic kind of gangster sound to it. There's were more like a you know,
a club sound and more for thegirls. But Papa Lodge was like

(57:45):
more kind of mean and it wasa gangster, upright based kind of thing.
So that's when everything was coming up. What trial call question Midnight Marauders.
It was a like an upright thing. I guess I got to say
I was. I actually played thatsong in a club that I was working
at and it worked great. So, like I was a little confused because

(58:08):
it was a very new style.It was a little slicker than most of
the production that you know I goton other ultrama records. But I won't
lie it worked very well in theclub and people were like, damn,
who is that? But then two, this show how dope they were as
producers infusing the element of ultramagnetic init. All they did was took to

(58:30):
give the druma some beat and theyput elements on top of it. So
you know, that shows how dopethey are. They said, oh,
well we're watch this Keith real quick. Did you always know that your mind
could split, like with alter egosto create like these different personas or did
you just feel like that was anatural evolution with ultramag in general, or

(58:53):
I mean, did you ever kindof think in your head, hey,
one day I might want to splitoff and become being that you were into
all these like TV shows karate foryou know, like, did you think,
hey, I could beat these alteregos and create different side projects.
Well, when I was with Oltra, I was writing solo records still.
I mean, I had my mindmade up on what we do with the

(59:15):
Ultra group, and I had mysolo stuff and you know, my real
my original solo was Rhythmmex. Ihad a lot of Rhythmmex stuff written and
and I still had Ultra Magnetic stuffwritten at the same time, Well it's
my time chill out the rombs,the back and roll, but I get
nice used to Mike when I'm backand boll on w Mega took the els

(59:36):
with the esso kicking them seas inthe face like Jim Kelly. What used
to cold cuts and djits from theKelly and a sound was cooked up,
fake st up and backed up aluminumfoil em sez, I got a boil
fake earn heat him, beat'emshop and beat'em down to the sound
as a cloth in your frame.Throw I look at them, see they
walk away in my brain? Blow? Are uf earth object unidentified? I

(59:57):
taking the scar on a journey toanother box. I mean, it wasn't
a lot to write with Ultra becausesaid addiverse and I addiverse. Sad addiverse
and I addiverse. So I hadso much energy to writing other songs.
I had a lot of solo recordsI had written and prepared for my solo
stuff. So I was doing twothings at the same time. I was
still writing Ultra stuff and still writingmy solo stuff, and you know,

(01:00:22):
still writing in general, you know, like and it was weird, you
know. I used to hang withGreg Nice and stuff, and Greg Nice
and Smooth and lead Chinese Food saidhang out with you know, it was
kind of wild. You know,the group's hung with different people. You
know, Greg g used to comeup to the Bronx and you know,
as a group, we don't hangtogether, but we get together for the
shows and stuff from VOT trying andgo practice co work on the beats,

(01:00:45):
go to the studio agether. Butmy off time, I'm hanging with Greg
Nice and Smooth. You know,it's a story I could tell you,
Like, we would hang out somuch and I went to the house one
night. We went to Smooth Beescribb and Fordham Road or somewhere and we
hung out all the time, eatingChinese food, drinking Old English and everything.
Greg Nice to tell you so Iused to hang with them more than

(01:01:07):
my group, and we would goup there and they would play beats and
you know they're my friends. Andyou know it's funny. I could have
been on you know that record theydid. I supposed to have been on
it to this day, that thirdverse that want to go, you know,
the one if They're a sprink again. So I couldn't get on it

(01:01:27):
because for you for you. Yeah, I was so hard. And then
my friends and they were like,yo, you won't get on the last
verse. We go in the studiotomorrow, so we didn't like regular friends.
I said, I don't know,I might can see I can't get
I don't know if I'm gona geton it. I think about that care
y'all that record Great Records. Acouple of weeks later, I was on
the Red Red was spending in springagain. Yeah you should have been on

(01:01:54):
No de Land. That was whathappened. Was what happened was I didn't
get on it because at that timeI felt that was too hard to get
on and not that the record wasso up. They just was my friends.
They did the song them and theysaid they didn't get mad enough.
They said, we're gonna do ittomorrow. You're coming down and put your
burst down. I said, Idon't know. I might check it out.
I might get on it because theywe was all writing it. They

(01:02:15):
was all writing in the house tothe record. I never jumped on him.
And I heard that shot on theradio, the Little Luke, but
I was like thinking it was gonnaaffect my career because I was doing so
much. We was so hard.But maybe, like now, like with
the differentiation of me getting those jobsand features and stuff and jumping on all
kinds of stuff, Octagon, Iwould have probably did it. But at

(01:02:37):
that time we was full in themode of rugged sounds, rugged sounds,
getting on rugged stuff. So,you know, like I said, I
hung with them, and you knowthey always did. They record stick Up
Kids and up Attacks, and Gregwas with Tala Rock and you know,
annihilating, So we was always inthe mode of tough records. They had

(01:03:01):
more records that were milder because Smoothiewas more like smooth and stuff. So
but we would hang together. That'sthe funny thing about it, like our
music didn't you know. I didn'tnot hang with them to say, well,
I'm harder than we can't drink beertogether and each Chinese food. It
was we just hung together as regularfriends. Let me add this. This

(01:03:22):
is something a lot of people don'tknow. When we signed with Mercury,
it was a double album deal.It was ultramagnetic. Then there was supposed
to have been a cool Kief soloalbum. When we signed well Wild Pitch,
it was supposed to being an ultramagneticalbum than a cool Keith album.

(01:03:42):
These were deals that were done.Matter of fact, we had asked for
the release off of Mercury, butat Wild Pitch, Keith had actually going
into production on this solo album beforewe finally said, you know, we
wanted to be out of here withStu. You know, that was always
the intent of Ultra see was alwaysshe said, That's why he always just

(01:04:06):
stayed warmed up right in his solostuff. You know, a lot of
people thought we was a group thatwe broke up. We never broke.
We never had broke. We neverbroke them anywhere. It was like ours
had solo projects. Travel would duproduction on his own and make his his
tapes with his artists. Said hadartists. We had Ultra Magnetic as one

(01:04:29):
foundation group. Tim was a subsidiary. You know, we still had he
had MF nine one one, Ihad a solo album. We were still
breaking the stuff down into parts.Everything was aparts. Were still Voltron as
a big robot and then we breakdown into parts. But the industry feel
that we were not officially a groupthat stayed together, you know, so

(01:04:53):
they took us out of the historyof evilness and like what's going on now?
That's what people figure like, Oh, they're not a complete group,
so they don't deserve the Hall ofFame, or they don't deserve to be
on maybe a show. You know, they don't. But maybe all these
other people that they considered together.Maybe they see me and moan that together,

(01:05:14):
the trip that together, sin thattogether. But we are, we
are one. But the point isthey kind of got eager with it.
They thought we were a group thatjust broke up. You mentioned Wild Pitch.
Let's let's get into this. Sothis is an album that is I
would say many people's favorite ultra despitehow amazing critical was, this is a

(01:05:41):
true could classic and I think oneof the reasons why it resonates so much
with someone like myself is because itcame out in ninety three, which is
probably one of the best years hiphop has ever seen. Ironically, you
guys came out in eighty eight,but you came out with Wu Tang,
Midnight Marauders, you came out withDoggie Style. So I mean, right
there, those are three albums thatkind of change the landscape of hip hop

(01:06:03):
in the early nineties. You know, So this album not just being on
on Wild Pitch, but this albumkind of got lost in the mix because
you had so many albums that youknow that we're basically getting you're talking about
the full Horseman. Yeah, Iwant to get into Four Horsemen first.

(01:06:25):
First thing first is the name prettymuch homage the Flair and I trust myself
fair Hollo hollo. What is likeriding fiss off? You tug the chav
off and I'll be We're back.I also hear you talk about Rick Flair

(01:06:48):
on the record, so I wouldhope that is an omage to the to
the real four Horseman. To well, he's not the real four Horseman.
The real one was a book.But back in the day it was four
Horsemen. Let's get into it.I know said you had said that initially

(01:07:09):
it was going to be a Keithrecord checking my style. Uh see the
Manical Street signed, We signed thetwo album dil It was a Ultra Magnetic
album. Keith album was supposed tocome. Those two joints that was that
I just mentioned that were produced byGodfather don weren't they initially for the rhythm
X album that never came about.No, that was for the Ultra album.

(01:07:32):
So that was always for the Ultraalbum. Yeah, Okay, all
right, so I stand corrected.So let's get into this album, because
again this is probably many people's favorite, it's my favorite, and I gave
you the reasons why it resonates somuch with me. But this album felt
good. It felt like you guyskind of were making the music you wanted

(01:07:54):
to make. It felt like youguys had car blanche to make the music
you wanted to make. You didn'thave a lot of people telling you what
you needed to do. And nowfor nothing, I can't recall many albums
that was a very baseball influenced album. I mean, you gave many shout
outs. Forget just the Negro Leaguewith the Gibson opop bell, but I

(01:08:16):
mean, how many songs can yousay that reference Bucky Down or Sparky Low,
you know what I'm saying, orThurman Munthson. I know you guys
are baseball guys, but it wasit was so unique and so refreshing to
hear at that time that it stillresonates and as a baseball fan, and
you could see in the background inmy house when I heard that album,

(01:08:39):
it really changed things. I meanit was you guys created your own lane
and you always did. And Iknow Keith mentioned a few times about not
having affiliations and whynot, but Ithink that's kind of what made Ultra so
appealing. You guys didn't need theco signs, you didn't need the affiliations,
You weren't a part of the nativetongues. You guys kind of stood

(01:09:01):
on your own. And this albumI felt was kind of like a coming
out yet again and saying hey,we are Ultra, and said you had
a very different approach to this album. Lyrically, it sounds like when I
hear two brothers of checks and thenI hear your cadence on say don't be

(01:09:24):
scared. You made a conscious effortto sound a certain way on this album.
And and like I said, thisis my favorite album that you guys
have done. I think you guyssound like you had the most fun making
this album and it comes out inthe music. Yeah. See, we
was like I said, from Mercury, it really hurt me when they let

(01:09:48):
Slad Productions ruined songs. Now withwith the Four Horsemen, we were able
to once again pick the people whowe wanted to work with and you know,
do our thing without you know,someone coming in and forcing you know,

(01:10:10):
outside elements on your stuff. Andthat's why the album, just from
the first track is just like whenwe all the horsemen come on. That's
like another world as we search forblack people in white people seeking the world
and the full space shraun, Heythe root stalk to see and rocks.

(01:10:30):
I just don't they've been driving.But I'm gonna keeping players too well.
Give you which you cannot which Isaw about Black Night, Get you get.
I got Mega in comic then Iknow the Pocket. Mega needed back
the out space nine eight seventy sixfour three to change the act the back

(01:10:53):
what they like, So I've beengetting rocket for peoples in the pocket.
Was black too black? That's thebronx of it. Reading the bus,
the lights came on differ ready exciting, We'll know what I'm saying. The
lactic could be bes beans being nownot to am No, what don't be
the l follow using the mix withlots of protects to hand them puss some

(01:11:15):
filling the workers cigarettes on when they'rereaching their pick up. I'm a pup
scle. We turn to the galaxy, the you, the first Brothers become
the world wild West. I havea special mentality when that Chiel at the
planet Magnesian flint. So why shakeup the maols? So what's life?
We are spill Itteen spaceship. Weare on smill Itteen space ship. We

(01:11:36):
on on hor smick Itteen space ship. We on hor smill itte space ship.
We on a w smill itte spaceship. Random. And this is
why I know it's always about wherethe producer does stuff at cause see the

(01:12:00):
man on the street checking my style? Was all that Gofall the Don's House,
Right, We went to power Playto mix the records, but the
stuff at Golf All the Don's Housesounded better than the forty eight track board
power Play. Yeah, so itwas great with the machines, that's for

(01:12:23):
sure. We went with the Golfoff the Don's House versions. I still
have a few of his discs thatwe used to do some shit together.
He used to work at a kid'sclothing store and I used to go meet
him and he used to have Heand I were one of the few that
had MPCs, and he used toslide me these discs and they would just
say like popcorn on it, andI'd flip it in and just now I

(01:12:45):
know how to like create discs.But this dude's disc were just they were
all fucked up. They weren't formattedproperly. He didn't have like save all
sounds. It was just like hehad to load individuals. And I was
like, is this guy fucking allover the place? But his ship was
just so creative. You know,when you got to load the sounds individually,

(01:13:05):
that meant this was fucked up.Yeah, because that happened to me.
That's the one thing I hated aboutthe NPC. When the disc get
back, you lose a couple ofthe times get most of them back.
Yeah, individually, of course,it's crazy. Why don't we do something
kind of different. I want togo since we have both of you on,

(01:13:26):
I'm gonna go track by track eachone of you. I want you
to kind of tell me a littlebit, maybe one or two things about
that particular track, whether making itor a memory you have associated with that
track off this album. Again.I want to focus on this album because
I don't know if you guys trulyunderstand the importance of this record. And

(01:13:47):
we get so much stan mail andrequest to talk about this album at great
lengths that I kind of want todo this because I think it's such a
great album, and not many peoplegive it the accolades that it deserves.
So said, you kind of startedoff with the we are the Horseman Howard
began right, Keith checking my style. That was another guy father joint.

(01:14:13):
Tell me something about this particular track. Yeah, you don't have to play
this on a Tuesday night, butcheck this out. This is send me
morning at church with the brother thecar father open up the testaments and let
us read this. Well, Ikeep us starling and told poor my job
in microphone. They make my browlesshow up. Rap, but when I
give'em, don't place focky y'all. Freakeet, honey, step back.

(01:14:34):
What's when I come? You strapthat kiddy cat on top of that ripper's
norm ex stowed out once we getstop it over there for the ladies,
I stripped chip in there hype atechnic hold civics make him better with a
freind spins like Higer thirty drink jobfor forty five down, just like the
first king, rotating what style mybrother? My game is something? Do
the lyps make my brother say keepus out and standing my wanna hear it?

(01:14:57):
Fine, iby the Morrow, kickingolds, take it back in town
to smack a girl. Let himgo tell a crouple cub hunt and cut
the film as I rock the wells, make it tell check the beat,
most out a mean you couldn't catchit on my beeto and the fun and
the stress. It's like a coupleof band pocket stop made everywhere, but
like a trooper on a turnpike.I'm not stronger, just like the Lincoln

(01:15:18):
Tunnel brother check out, check itout, black back. I switched.
I checked. I know that asI kick up the pot of me.
You know it's me. I gotmy mother, will bless the should and
Tonus take off companies, got yourboys the man and check it on start
returning to zero. It was justjazz fusion me No, Don made mean

(01:15:40):
jazz, basically not happy jazz.He was making mean jazz where everybody else
is making like happy jazz. Youknow, check my style. It was
like kind of rows, you know, I like. I like all Don's
jazz on especially that recordless mean.You know, John made mean jazz.
Eight eat fusion jazz said, tellme about two brothers with checks us destroying

(01:16:08):
about chips, pretty white chill,And it was flies my Wicky Wikis dollars
abeba before the wallering the planet boydI swing at the store, by your
lunch, plays across super Cat,chasing rats with Kim, goes at the
bottle, might get being gold withhim. Side connections like gout one thing,
do things like Baba bloo Ksey wreckthough it's macdo go get my boy.

(01:16:30):
Lou Let's see bake brid minutes exso s guletant. He's pitching the
fat board, just swinging your missingfor seven times, a white clown he
spelling and a bit stripping off ofyour forehead. Rolling down to the Mexico.
You're courting a bit true. Yougot you with flexible exibot mans tree
or xbo hip up dumb and can'tturn it. You're pick it up and
you're learning now. Your chilling waseye as it kicks with the sodium.

(01:16:51):
Pele came down just to sign somewatographs you got then left went to Elsa
guns Dot But you's just a bakingm Philadelphia stay from I got a hole
in my pants, I said,also on my leg, got a new
jacket. Was breaking out to thetraining camp, dance dance and dance and
dance and dance, and dance anddance. Then I sat on the toilet
and throw the rhyming and order.Now I'm spending and when it got the

(01:17:13):
curls up on it. Of courseI'm kicking and stinking thing up popping then
let it? Can you kill meyour finger and you cooking the chicken?
As you see, we're religion whenwe're rowing, just eating up to Egypt
and backs dad step, but notreating course. Wegg stracted three brothers with
shick rightest flood we get seventy pistoisywere brothers with ships flood get seventy cistoisty

(01:17:36):
were ships flood Sevrancisco which Barty choppingfrom Cooper's town, swinging like Don Han
put them next in the battist boxfirm I like once and let what I
swing right and change courses in dialoguereaching to Atlanta, Alabama, Suspannada,
I can come round like a ballto Indian adult m Fouri Kentucky like then

(01:17:59):
call me Ducky watches I'm nice tofloat to space while doctor swim I'm doing
you watch fucking loud as I throwback a sprint ball, my sliding and
checked back the stadiums fack roll thepeople should get back and walk through the
place, Yo, Jerry Cordy ballsand sweet switch wing. I get him
sees on my third track, myhot dog has done. I mean the
dug out check it. I know. I retch shop tip top heat bop

(01:18:19):
head strap and made he rather getsee now back to the places here the
catch up, hitch up, youwin the audience, man, you read
the fan like super Cat d ddo. I played the feeling New York
can hit Jamaica like giants up brownlike San Francisco Harby, no type of
rats with cash and Bristol Green.I'm making moves, yo, man,

(01:18:40):
who are you ship swim Cady SanFrancisco by free shirts and shacks, scrat
Syrancis Harby, Sweet swims and shipstrit Symptancis, Hardy Shi s Caddy struck
striking. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, pick

(01:19:09):
up bay, hurt off the heat, showing up now, I'm stelling for
fither truth like I'm refling town likewe got big checks in our base on
the streets. Yeah, picking up, swinging at back like show walking,
catching at beat like wave pussy catchinghim changed up at the Killer Cool.

(01:19:30):
We might catch him in open SanFrancisco for the pick up funnies and clipment
with the case of that club asthat wrong, like I'm charting up kicking
that boy down the cloud as wow, need to guess for Miles Chick,
don't buy a play fighter Clowders makea redding like this as we drive through
the city ships SEVERI shover sister,everything everything. Two Brothers with Checks was

(01:20:16):
just like, uh, it wasan experience. It was what the record
said. And Jay Henry, see, like I said, we always worked
with dope engineers. Jay Henry,who we worked with on Funky, he
actually engineered two Brothers with Checks,and uh, it was just, you

(01:20:36):
know, it was an experience.It was dope. He killed it with
trapping from Cooper's Town, swinging likethe you know Don Hahn and Dermond Munson.
You know, it was fun again, it was fun recording its two
brothers. The checks was kind oflike the skull snaps with uh the George

(01:21:00):
and it had like a different kindof sound to it, like nobody would
never you know, it was sloweddown on him, moping, you know,
the yeah, you know a lotof stuff was that record was like
a trail of feeling. The nextjoint is I would I think this is
the debut, the lyrical debut ofGodfather Don and this is raise it up.

(01:21:25):
Tell me about that record. It'sit is a fan favorite, as
you can imagine, it is.Keep scared a lot of people that went
to college around this time. Ohyeah, I went to college. I'm
even more stupid, Herb. Ithink a lot of people felt stupid for
spending all this goddamn money to getthat degree. They still do. They
never understood many people were so slow. What type of about my mastile was?

(01:21:48):
Psychal complex Swish swish mostle go.I move around up creating North style,
so I'm like good other kids,my blessed style, my klyrics like
she was friending your face, welcomeon the car jacket, Spade put the
eggs. I just slowed off downin for in full like they used to
be on critical feet down. Idropped styles and he is the public bitle

(01:22:10):
now made. They went to school, so the dummies went and writing.
They said, you keep your cool, you use them big words. I
went to college. I'm even morestupid. Herd not gonna scene to pull
a lesson out, even if theyhave to pull a blacksmith from Wesson out.
I gotta hel a stick and yellin that little track patting the monkey
shoulder, humming bird, how toact? I get a comic, hypeo

(01:22:30):
galactical word the mom I'm in myown world, kealaxy reis powerful. If
your money and rip money print anotherthing, don't eagle drink your money rip
money print nuther thing. Don't eagledrip no back in this day. Then

(01:22:53):
when you say you fell upation andthen the people, then what's up?
Put them the magnetics you they stophaving a great cooky business cycle. That
to your societist sillery for ye wreaking. The fuship was definitely hit. New
York came down just to beat thesabola. But they get you the music.
What's your orchestration? And we futin prevention. They went their friend

(01:23:13):
in black and they bought deversation,got in the bag, down the build
the wow I missed down. We'reback on the street with the flap of
your miss. Okay, when yourprogram MOTI had a real high under on
my real ron flappers, get fivefive brother in the shoe, put me
y'all human defending in out with instflusionpromoting the hype bake up both in this
night the press it up laders aregentleman live for black boos brook, I

(01:23:46):
bring to you the night sa godfather Don from the office looking down the
battle of my gun this no butso for something my run for Puma flip
like a hund of young dragon withthe force of ten set. So the
white circle was back to loup keepingyeah, watching and the face with the
buffer upper face dam instant man amother that I sent up a full set

(01:24:10):
those at you on my Christmas whitemy mouth with tissues. There's no issue
on first prist mis check the wset the force of my blacks and go
on like take and love listening nowwith its it's with it, Visit to
sing your brand with Visit cartir Maascularmasket works, the masculin had I got
beat swarms tech cats black including notrump check the lout snoop blow we coop.
They like about jump. Back inthe days there was just beating up.

(01:24:32):
Course now with days to beat downcause its dose who clips mum watching
rips with the band and it randomyou bet go like Michael landing when I
bust amazing nuts your plates, Icutting the father's owner paid, I'm raising

(01:24:56):
you range it up was like wehit the video. Everybody it was around
that Really that record was golf offto done. Like when it come on
it spit out the water out ofthe mouth. That's the best part.
I love laugh. Look, therewas two videos that I had the most
fun in my life. What wasthe Rebel on the Hour Chaos pe with

(01:25:23):
thousand rappers. We was in thatold jail bugging out having fun, and
that video right there. I can'texplain it. We was in Keith's Blackyard
and this projects and then the wholeneighborhood was out there. It was all
love. It was just fun.What most people don't realize is that you

(01:25:44):
guys were in the video for BlackSteel in the Hour of Chaos, And
I don't think many people can evenname the people that were in that particular
picture. But so funny, man, that is a classic can go on
any war all. It's something tobe proud of, just to be next
to a moment that was like suchhip hop like icons all being a part

(01:26:10):
of that. And I remember justwatching the video and seeing Parish inside the
jail cell or you know, butthe fact that you got the promo pick
it is pretty orange. Juice Jonesis in there, that's right, So
like that's it's very just fucked upmy whole ship because he's not a baseball
fan. I want to get backto track number five, all right,

(01:26:32):
So Drey hates baseball. I lovebaseball. Keep this ship moving. Saga
of Dandy the Devil and Day Didyou did you? Of course I've heard
the re I have the remix,come on, I own everything, but
this was gospel. The remix toRaise It Up was also dope too.

(01:26:54):
I mean definitely this this song wasthe track when it came to uh,
you know, I gets on here. When it came came the base I'm
so tell me real quick, bokyou guys, this particular song tell me
something about play baseball. It wasa no fat yeah, put the weather
so high? Who can play likeDavy Day the greatest in the best,

(01:27:15):
like the Central brother Bay long time, a little ball in the Hall of
Fame, like Johnson, But bealert up. Everybody was down for me
and me nuts Busson's in the semi'sbest the brightest dress and on that cheese,
not faithball in the day shop,it's mostly not reach. But back
in the days it was all segregated. The white that themator and then the

(01:27:40):
black that the Nigga League. Theyboth back great time, but then it's
black that no history football a greatplayers. The teams in the ballot where
the shit like restore the glory.They haven't got black baseball bay Page the
way the players like that put thatmovie day Black Baseball League pay the way
when the players like the gut thatmovie in day Black Baseball they made away

(01:28:03):
with players like Dave put that movewith that black baseball Now the ball buck
they played. It was very futfrom the stadium because they only sat on
hundred T sets up both through thethousands. But the dances they packed full.
The lead that was back with teamslike the Backing Rack, then the

(01:28:23):
home Stack, Grays, the Eaglesand many books get ready to play.
They say's like Verminham from the workingshot in town. The buck church were
very long. They checked your bringa crown foot after these ways, but
they really loved baseball. You canban them formation, but not from the
game. With players like Lee Yarddays pitched on the sevree days. It's
on with hold double blower hitters withmoble ways sit. Then there was bullet

(01:28:45):
Joe Wo's up with mob Joe KeePitcher in seventeen brothers like head hole,
thank batter up, bring her home. They took the long way land.
It was so fun. It's shoutingto play three games to day. Hey,
hey, turn the twins took upand going to win again. Make

(01:29:05):
the other players say, oh themagain. But what do you know,
like baseball say paid with players likeDaddy black baseball day, we players like
that with the like baseball y paidfor plays like this, put that with

(01:29:28):
their black baseball. Papa Bell wascool, broke an He catches rule on
the base at night to the streetand with the light come and pass quick
flash. He was so fast.Scouts watching it d and what they saw
the best of the game. It'sa shame you don't know Taba sit double

(01:29:49):
duty. And don't forget Judy Tylerwas dead and it was black. Give
them their credit, folks and buildthem a horse fame. But I just
repressed. When you both in thehost of bank and on the player hoaches
bands in the ball from the timeto feel it to the New York Black
Yanket, the bird Boy. Theydo have the bench just like the Red

(01:30:10):
Bull, just like the Abe Man, just that bluid up through the Black
Rapet, blackbird Ball. They paythe way. We're players like they beat
the movie. They Black bas Ballway with players like the Black Ball.
Well, uh, Stupeine had metsome of the original players from Negro Leagues.

(01:30:34):
Okay, so he put me andKeith on the phone with them,
and you know, it was justan idea and they said, you know,
they would appreciate it. So keepingthe lab he wrote, you know,
he wrote brilliant verse and then Ihad to follow him. So you

(01:30:55):
know, it was just fun againlike I said. And then like like
that remix, like Keith said,Godfather Don made serious jazz. It was
like huge. That remix is sickthat I could just listen to that all
day and it set up my littlespeech. It's the top of the night.

(01:31:18):
It sounds like magic. You know. You guys spoke to like Day
or Bell prior to making this record, guys like that. Yeah, spoke
to them briefly on the phone.That's pretty cool. Then sent us,
you know that he sent us theparol and everything it was. It was
just, yeah, you guys hadthat Jersey game a lot, kind of

(01:31:42):
before it became a trend. Thatwas also a very cool thing about the
album. We took the pitches atthe Zoom yeah man and Yankee Stadium.
Yeah. Now you know, basedon the reference, I would imagine you
guys were big fans the Yankees inthe seventies. I mean Sparky Lyle and
thirty uns and whatnot. Yeah,Randolph, Now were you guys? Did

(01:32:11):
it? Did it end in theChris Chamblis, Chris Chamblist All seventies Dues?
What about niney baseball? And RickyHenderson did continue in Louisiana Lightning Windfield
the wind Now he knows I hatebaseball, but I will say this,

(01:32:33):
I do have a baseball that wassigned by the whole New York Yankees squad.
And what was it seventy nine whenthey won teen twenty seven? Was
Babe Ruth And it was in theseventy nine of my my Pop's new Phil
Rizzuto, And they came, theycame down, and I had that ball

(01:32:53):
still. Who they got to PhilRossuto? Oh league cow? Are you
as confused as I am about thesenew tax laws. Call the money store
told free dial one eight hundred twotwo one, nine thousand. Is that
seventy seven dre because George Herman routeseventy seven seventy eight. I don't know,

(01:33:14):
but it was that whole squad,Billy Martin squad. Nigga. Well
you wait all right, Delta forcetwo one thing. Tell me about this
joint. Hey, I gotta fullthat this wigke foke it back while I
kick you do you in bettible weatherwell take up in twelve hundred, make
me make it get dappen well nappingnumbers dollars correct. So I'm gonna get

(01:33:36):
back to wrapping things, not back, and I'm forward. I'm gonna keep
you full. No one, that'sjust like the John thought. You look
get dad and make that something youthink it's up back. It's a full
thing. I'm back on the dotthe four track. That's my big bigger
that's a full brother, nigga,I'm gonna find my ways time black.
I just pulled on track. Nowmy might get just smoking like, oh,
I'm not joking. Fund make truth, don't get broken. Don't want

(01:33:57):
me to head Bago really said,well, hang up, what my favorite
so a little time and just gotup. When I'm going ahead, I
may beat just flipping. So Iride up a ride like back up the
rent with the aptsman, the favoritesthat the base check they to check my
stat and not know that's set twoyears back. Still to lup, it's

(01:34:20):
smart, she's smart, smart basel The fourth two is this, just
listen to it. It's organized confusion, organ much shit on there. It's
so much shit on there, andto make it all sound like one was

(01:34:43):
just the job by so all right, well most not on. So we
won't talk about Herman's lust. Butlet's talk about see the man on the
street. You mentioned that, whichis ironically another godfather, don joined I
mean he gave you as it's justso walking down the street later, it
was just crazy like Broadway Dad,there you know the horns and there's just

(01:35:04):
a dark street on Broadway, likegoing in one of those little streets like
around Shore holding cobblestone streets. Thatright thing you like that you niggas wanted
to get at the back door thefucking when I was getting around the lage
shopping on the other day. Igotta do this. Boy has to make
them brothers, quick go trying tosee ship that get by ship. I

(01:35:25):
think I never made your duty holdingforty quick. Whether's gonna be your mother?
I shop your ass right, takethe body your baggat being up out
of sight. I got the FBI. Got to have more eye. Trying
to bunch the sign and take anunder the line the field back doing the
stupid wicker ways we want ain't knowing. I'm about the hospital cot walking and

(01:35:45):
yelling like got to do a littleyou better walk in the street to look
around black. See that out inthe street at the corner. Yeah,
see that in the street at thecorner. Year. See that man on
the street at the corner. Year, See that man in the street at
the corner. Year, see thatman on the street at the corner.
Year, see that man of thestreet at the corner. Year. She

(01:36:06):
don't land on the street at thecorner. Yeah shee that man on the
street who was at the corner.Year back that hell took the green yard.
I'm in the street. You seethe ghost right at home. Piss.
I walked down in your block andsee your stephens pushing up in your
best and bucking up. Yeah,yeah, down the eight I'm at the
mazement, got the body in backand put the mazement someday I went just

(01:36:30):
hit him in a mint. Iput the rappers up, steading from at
him. Now up before the housegame. I couldn't the blotter I caught
e take time to send your water. I wasn't at home. Somebody's in
my house. I took them rappersback out. I'm in a pickup truck.
Took at tell on myself. Seethat man in the street, who's
at the corner year, See thatman in the street, who's at the

(01:36:51):
corner year? To see that manof the street, who's at the corner
year? To see that dand ofthe street, who's at the corner year?
See that the end of the street? Who's see that on the seat?
Who's see that on the seat?Who see that the sea? See
that down on the seat? Who'sthat the forty years? See that the

(01:37:13):
seat? Who forty years? It'sa hard record, though, Yeah,
that dumb, damn dumb that don'tthat that would that would send it?
Yeah, like you want to doa stick up when you listen to this
song and it's just a violent record. See that's what they allowed a lot
of people made jazz stuff. Butlike you said, they they kind of

(01:37:39):
was mad at Godfather Dawn. It'slike in the industry, they kind of
like they put him in the samebracket as we was like whatever we whatever,
people couldn't do, we hate whatthey do. Like if we can't
duplicate you, we hate you.That he was he paused in that bracket
too, like we couldn't do that. Everybody couldn't make his kind of jazz,

(01:38:03):
so they hated him, same withus. They can't make the kind
of sounds we do a rap likeus. They hated us, so they
loved They loved us and hated usat the same time. But now it
seems more they are more happier becausethey said, well time went by.
I'm glad those motherfuckers is not likecompetitive with us right now. Whatever,

(01:38:25):
That's what it boils down to.So, like you said, we was
hating it to love it all right, we got a few more bring it
down to earth, Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's time to come out
giving people something they couldn't understand,something not too complicated. You know what
we're gonna do. We're gonna bringit down to earth, make up on

(01:38:48):
Ignite super Reflection. I would ignitethe poor enforcement m I kicked stops like
they had a computer read it.Miles awaiting the bream squad track for my
start up A number four. Iget a wof speed, get with the
elephant camp spreece prap change my Gamafloor one three eight seven, twenty six

(01:39:08):
seven story seventh. I got thescript the rap sound like Captain Kirk Yama
reck one block of Lady the courtdamaging animal. A lady would have been
a poort. Got one speed.It was more dirty too. It was
very dirty and grimmy sound on thatplayed the bass on that. Yeah,

(01:39:30):
live base, okay, play throughDon't be Scared Now be scared was like
we had tea one thousand Todd onthat. That was like another baseline.
Rick and I played. That waslike a we all aligned in the in
the in the horn. Who putthe horn? Was it dawn set?
Yeah? That was like the hornwas like the horn was like like like

(01:39:54):
a gargoyle, like a gargoy comingout the sky like da. It was
just like you standing on the topof the builder like a superhero. Like
that was the sinister horn on thego around the buicky, tricky dollars so

(01:40:16):
cocky. I not you rop likeI'm rocking, and then I'll bet you
the world us some on the board. I like, get me boy rapping
because my Ron don't like bosk.I think keep bring like call book to
put your bodus for mother si weit's done. They're making a fund cheek.
You look at a rolling up stickyswap with the bella let's contact foot
tent. They call on the cheekcuck a boat just drum shit fuckers.
Then take that stuns that up.Then that effects like a red broad stick

(01:40:39):
in the match. Cut the forwardsexactly know the Watchington contress to have the
congression of profession th run I'm onfrequently doing making cut your cruger. But
now the flipping the ill way downthrough it with milk. The horseman's down.
There is the rapid ticky rab basketlike we with bother got on metal,
like I'm playing without fello CHICKI said, I have a hello. Oh

(01:41:15):
yeah, that was don't scared back, was just straight straight raw. Now
most of these tracks were recorded atCalliope and Don's house, or they recorded
at don in my house. Alright, so these are all home studios at
the time. Yeah, except exceptTwo Brothers with checks, uh raised it

(01:41:41):
up was recorded at Don's house.Whether it was mixed that power play House
was mixed outside of two places.You all said, you sound very much
like you had the same cadence onthis joint as you did on Two Brothers.
Right the way the way you wentabout don't be scared. This was

(01:42:04):
that deliberate or is that just somethingyou happened to be making in You were
kind of in that zone at thetime, and it just sounded very similar.
I was in that zone to me. My best performance on that album
was on h We Are the Horseman. You know, I was I just
I just put my foot on thatone. You know, you set it

(01:42:27):
off. The next joint is Uis Keith one two one two, which
is ironically, you know, differentto Ryan pattern. Again, you guys
always did something different and kind ofbased on that two one two what two
one two? I just step ina frap trap TlAP TlAP, dance,
swiggle the little fields go tap tapand when you SWI swip change my pity

(01:42:49):
pitch do get downtown my sound soundsound rob Rio Towntown Season the Back Double
trouble to learn. Learn it soundsnot the burnt bron see what your turn
turn look at me black black,no coming me blackwack a chill. I'm
like girl, get your crew likea snack pack, walking our flax flax,
checking up stop stop, beat'emon down down Sometimes I rock rock,

(01:43:12):
play on, swing on walking youstep step, pick up your pen
pack bull up my breath, brap, we will get smack smack. I'm
telling your black black, I tellyou again, I'm trying to fat do.
I'm a two on two but TItwitched hall my two and two,
but two and two, two ontwo two and continue. I float,
float and I stiff in that blowblow ex to get book ball travel on

(01:43:35):
tor toy season, get crushed,crushed some something the dust us back tip
tape, heavy rhymes, go bustbust out on the west West basic chest
chest, let me go rock brockpeople just clock clock, bill up the
wet damn pennies and chop shop.We when I swing swim to rakings the
sing sing now when your brain hityour ball book d thing you see step

(01:43:56):
float foat. I think we alsosold a d I g I Kitty twitty
Joe Joe romas a doodoo dude thing. It's a boodo voodoo. Let me
go play back. What's what Isay? Say? They could be your
mic. I'm tucking fat nuts.But two two and two two two,
it's a get bread breck breaking yourneck. Neck. Your brain is a

(01:44:17):
seat like a bird. I gopeck peck. Don't call me no jet
jet keeping, no sweet sweat.You could be dog dug catting my pet
pet. That's I gonna boot mooove. You're being so smooth food rama like
water field shrunk in a fiel field. Something's a jet jack jumping on set
set thing in a funk funk,so many funk calls, like being jail
jail somethingy sweet souf. But Igotta dip lip you stay on my tip

(01:44:41):
ship boy inside herm and say ca fat Kno. One two one two
was like chopped up catching glove anda different way and slap. It's just
it just was cool with double rhyming. Do the whole song. Yeah,
that wasn't coming back. Then Imade my own echo. Basically I was

(01:45:05):
repeating as an echo like I wasa human echo. No, E,
is that a song where you heardthe beat and you mimic the beat.
No, it was just it wasa lot of space in there. It
was just you know, the wayit was the way it was space like
pran pran prant. So it waslike it only could go with the cadence,

(01:45:27):
like you know, moving a stepstep from under the shot shot.
So it was like pran pran pranpran prant, Like you couldn't really wrap
over it with the whole full kindof rap sentence, like you couldn't like
say a paragraph kind of ra original. So original, So that one was
just really very original. Next jointis time to catch your body, tell

(01:45:49):
me about it. A lot ofwrappers, I think a rapper. Then
do that do that tepping on mytest? The cold my black scrolled them,
show them that they stoled us cold. But dooo doo take up babies,
honey, A sticky, foky booboo, pick it with more rounds,
a pop sauce sounds. Get withthe drift. What I'm saying,

(01:46:10):
slaying bringing'em seats to the program, not like eight towns off on a
slow sham. I can't get wickedwith the forky style. Lick it,
suck it chop on her chocolate.It's like a whoopy whoopy. I'll make
'em seas look bad like Charlie ratherscoopy your mother act wild sister, act
whoopy. He just got wilder andthat retarded alliterated put me in the mixed
w considerate. Oh yeah, I'mnot a step and throw gunning your face.

(01:46:32):
I tack all that shit. Prayyour station with me. I got
my things in the face. Allplayers down, the boys fatty stoopid facey
with their mass down, I walkthem doround. Okay, you think I'm
joking. Let's go to sleep andsee what happens. Remember record I beat
when you're lowing the tony take themmy side. All the Howard caught rod
Remember sat By. Comma get nobody, Comma get nobody going kill nobody,

(01:47:08):
kill the body, hang down.I can take you, picky picky,
ticky thicket stick, get my growthe b nown make up, get with
Micky never from the Yankees, butwe came with backy walking yet with eads
and drink the tacky t leaves.I kick this down and make him fly
back up with that troukay pull meroll out because I with the body to

(01:47:32):
kill you. I wanting break withyou, let me you. Yeah,
come back to the verse. Ihad some of my you. The baby's
taking up that demon. I'm onyou say, hanging on the board off
day the jac I'll be your goodygoody, but that damn don't wait checks
I made us that don't fight contactthrough that end of the day. Don't

(01:47:55):
want the light. Let's pullout,putting down on the brown. That was
crazy like we was. That wasthis kind of sexy record. That was

(01:48:15):
the one when Sexy said like Ilike to look you look d That was
like we were basically like we waslike juke. Who was that? It
was like silk, you know,it was like dud. It was like
kind of like us, like asex to me, that was Keyth's best
baseline on it. It was likeit was like a sexy It was like

(01:48:35):
a sexy gangster record. It waslike nice when the girls but hard enough
for like gods to listen to itlike it was LaToya with melodies Yeah yeah
yeah just then wow to catch thatone. Yeah nice. The next joint
is Yo Black, which ironically Ibelieve Buck Wild of a remix for this,

(01:49:00):
which I'll need to hear about howthat came about because that look look
the yo black to me, Keith, that's the one that got the industreet
man. Yeah, you listen tothe sounds of the one rhythms the man.
I'm gonna show you how to getracked the right way. Shut up,
step back that picky picky when yourap your old flowers somewhere in your

(01:49:24):
room styles over with thank head,no take it as a finger dish.
I'm come walking your should like theyburger which like you said, you swimming
like that? Hold me more onspits something you put up a box against
the alligator. I see your foodone by one black. An hour later,
I'll make the heavy man light turnup black, head and white.
What's up? Romany reckum? Squeezeit mighty ill wreck shop like rock the

(01:49:45):
rickey reck up shot stop back nabraa. I make them see he's gonna
hey, hold hey, hold lookat me now, what's up? Hey?
Show you say you're bad for goodbut so off it's on wood perpetrating.
Why when you're coming from no hood? I want your style, Dodo.
When I treat you, treat youlike an old Bible rabbar school teacher,
like my son. Let your mothertell you people's on the rose water

(01:50:08):
ex. You gotta smell you.You know me. I know you.
You're dropping linucks on the record,that spinning and that smell like doo doo.
You'll get back. I rock styleson top for another funny child.
I can't go around some swift formake your girls smith. You better brought
up the thing because I'm your father. Do black go back, step back
and black little black back step back, be black or black go back to

(01:50:28):
step backy black, go black,go back, step back black black,
go back, step back you blackcheck it one two. You don't wanna
step tow take me tyo patient fromthe front, coming at you. I
can't type going deep bokey figy fax. What's my style? Get wild from
like cother mix people on know theywhack? In fact, I'm coming back
black. What's in Superstars on yourclowns? With the map sat you see

(01:50:50):
you go with the mic man.I wonder why you may go sleeping you
what child was on baddy by wrapperson my t head? Pick the stick
in New York? Het me whereI go home? Never finding no water?
You think you fight on try you'llmake the penis bee I'm right around
to Morrison, go to Fantisy,take you wanna trip and make you put
out seek puny Tuesday when they tellthey find they whome we call check it,

(01:51:11):
watch it back up, slow down, but saying when you grow up,
I'll make a wrap up throw down. I'll make it for wrap But
try to get with Bobby Brown slidingclod fucky down my change Brown when I
say I watch me when I dothat, when I prepped the brick and
rock, watch him saying who that? I know my tongue gets long,
just like a listen. Can youtry to rank strick them for putt it?
And I know you're taking your neckThey hear the head stuff back to

(01:51:34):
burn yourself. You ain't the headstrump. I'm looking at meals and groups
and tell them to back. You'reblack, go back step black and black
your black, go back step blackand black. You're black, back step
back to black. You're black,go back, step back and black brown.
See who I can move and spitthe rumors? You rappers play like
sweet rumors. No s I kicka style so rocket the making both wet,

(01:51:57):
change their pennies and brass and makea dollar non whin I stopping trot
to talking it when you ain't aseat, no peace wo stop kidder Garden
not the same as I rock.You can't just sat your place to beat.
I'll make your block kid cover yourface to me, I'm not the
one fairy tale like patching the bellmuch trop is easy when I'm dragging him
down the hell you know my story. When I'm pulling you off the cliff,
the chilly ROMs on the table withSkippy and Chiff, I see the

(01:52:20):
summer's better find another game plan.I never heard an you stupid much your
name man, I'm trying to comeback and cut your head. Ball be
tromp on my tap when you're takingthe ball. Gee you see the stylars
mind, but kN I at slow. I'm make your fans came wild and
pull you in that show picking.When I feel it, then stop me
feel it. Don't try to beatme on floe lap on no check.

(01:52:41):
I'll give you water, some cup. I'll give you no slack. People
know I back that can't get themessage. I tromp a rom ain't a
missing on your recom Do black goback, step back to black and make
you black, go back step backand black, black, go back,
step back to black, go back, go back and step back to black.
You gotta remember rappers actually came tous and access about the record on

(01:53:03):
your play. Maybe that what weremost of the comments from them. Well,
what I had was do you distingme? I thought we were cool.
Now, what I had was astyle that I liked it. Like,
what I had to was use differentstyles and your black and I was
different styles of the industry cadences.So you know, I was listening to

(01:53:26):
every wrapper and you know, andthe track was like doom doom, doom
doom, like it was James Brown, wasn't it sense? So I used
this like I kind of combined itlike D's effects and mixed it with trash
kind of voice like dash effects andtrench like all all the all the wiggy
like you know, we were stillon that point and wiggy wiggie stylers unbearable.

(01:53:48):
So we still was doing vocal trickstoo, like you know, so
that you justn't rented, but wiggylike it was still we were still doing
tongue twisting as effects. Yeah,so that was a record that we didn't
do like left the pits to shiftagain, if we didn't do that,

(01:54:09):
that's when they about that out.We had so many different styles that we
and plus we listened to rappers andget different pointers and mix up and mix
up caduses. It was great.So you guys made a lot of music
that offended people, even though youweren't trying to offend people. Now were
just right. We just was writingwhat we was feeling. We just wrote,

(01:54:31):
but everybody was still feeling, youknow. I don't know, like
people just more a lot of people, just a lot of people in music.
But I don't think I think peoplethink we were more like not supposed
to make offensive records like we supposedto be neutral. And another thing about

(01:54:54):
Yo Black was once again Molave producedthe track, but we were trying not
to have to clear too many samples, so I actually have a musician my
boy space band play all the elementsover. And the key to me there
was when I mixed it, Ihad to make it sound like the Loop,

(01:55:15):
And I think that was one ofmy best mixes on Your Black,
cause a lot of people think that'sthe loop, But if you listen,
you're here where the guitar just dropsby itself, you'll hear the drums dropped
by themselves. You see what I'msaying. So that's what I take pride
and when I can take elements andmake it sound like, yeah, that's

(01:55:39):
what we missed because so many peoplejust kind of keep that loop going and
they just do dropouts of the wholesong. No one knows how to create
this pocket where the bass drops,where the drums drop, where the guitar
comes in. You know, it'slike all these beautiful little waves, and
you know, you really need aproducer's mind to properly arrange ax M.

(01:56:00):
So why was it remixed by BuckWild? I don't know. Keep you
recall Wild? I don't. Idon't. I don't know either. I
mean maybe Stu might have. Hedid a remix. You guys, ever
heard the remix by Buck Wold?No? I never heard it. I
never heard it. What I neverheard the book remix? Wow? Yeah?

(01:56:24):
That that was all right? Well, the last joint off this album,
totaling fifty one minutes twenty eight seconds, is big Booty. Now you
close it out, you guys,said that was said? Said? That
was a regular said four four analbum. I think we didn't really it
was reggae fot boy, and Iwas like, okay, put it on

(01:56:45):
that. When I still that,you check off your head, ladies.
But I'm coming with albums different.I'm ready to like keep saying I fought

(01:57:20):
for it, But the thing was, I worked on it so hard I
actually overdid it. If I justleft it the way it was, it
would have been crazy. Sometimes whenyou work on something too long, you
keep adding stuff when you don't needto, of course, so you try
to make it sound new every time. Now, after this album, which

(01:57:44):
came out in ninety three, therewas is it fair to say a little
bit of a hiatus? I mean, Keith started doing his projects. Doctor
octagon Is is probably the one manypeople are familiar with as far as your
your solo work. That was anautomater. Let me go real quick right
there. At that point. Itwas a highatus, but it was needed

(01:58:08):
because what was happening to Keith wasunfair. Like I told you, all
of those last two deals were supposedto comminate with him doing his solo album,
which you never do. So atthat point he just wanted to do
his solo thing because he missed twotrips. He had already missed out on

(01:58:29):
two albums, you see, soit was time for him just to go
ahead and just go do what hedid. So let's get into Doctor Octagon,
right. It was first of all, you have eighteen twenty different alter
egos, but this one in particularwas the album that I think really helped

(01:58:49):
establish you was a solo artist,if you will, right, you worked
with the Automater. It was initiallym Bulk and then years later it was
re released on Dreamwork, which Iwant to know because that's kind of crazy.
Your album was on a label ownedby Stephen fucking Spielberg to David Yeah,
right, that's kind of kind ofnuts. But Doctor Octagon, right,

(01:59:13):
it was yet another album you couldsay was well ahead of its time.
I mean, it's it's people peoplethat I don't know if you guys
ever seen like Black Mirrors on Netflix, That's what Doctor Gone is like.
You know, it's one of thesekind of albums that takes you down this
path that you would never imagine existed. And just a little bit for the

(01:59:33):
fancy, let's get into that album. What it was like? How did
you link up with an automater?What was this The first quote unquote solo
project that you really completed. Iknow you were working on a lot of
other things, but well, whatwhat happened is, uh, when I
when I moved out to LA,I used to go out to before I

(01:59:55):
used to go out to LA andsaid, we used to always go out
to h cut Master Kurt's house andstuff. So you know, Kurt was
always showing us around Oakland and stuffto buy records. And then what happened
is I went out to me andKurt pressed up some records like Prepared with

(02:00:17):
no Underwear and just record called BigGuys and all that. I see your
Big Guys, and it was likefour or five tracks. So me and
Kurt went down to California from Stackfrom kurtis to stay in and he used
to send me takes to my housebecause that's a dope eats on him.
So you know, I said,I when I get to California, we're

(02:00:39):
gonna talk. So Kurt lived inuh It's that little town and uh Santa
Cruz. Kurt lived in Santa Cruz. So Kirk was a big fan of
Ultra anyway, so Kurt was tocome up to San Francisco and show us
around and take the more and travelto buy records. So Kurt always wanted
to produce some tracks for us,but it was too late for Ultras another

(02:01:00):
album, so KURTI sent me beats. I went out to Santa Cruz and
then after a while and went backto New York. Kurt shop the tapes
down the Capitol Records and L SeventhSofa was at the I think, what's
they call it? Who's that?What was that San Francisco Seminaria they sewed

(02:01:21):
up? Yeah, So I sawLlo seventh Sofa up there and Malik and
they was like, yo, Keith, we want to sign you for Realms.
And then we got up there.They got back to California and they
told Gary Gersh to sign me.So I originally signed with Capitol Records to
do sex style album sex Styllar.I had a budget of five hundred thousand

(02:01:45):
dollars moving fun and I think fivehundred due album, but a million dollars
deal with Capitol. So what happenedis you moved to La Kirk got the
deal. He was like, yeah, but you think I'm just to go
back home with my mom, andyou know I was gonna album from home.
I'm saying Kirk, they gave youfive hundred thousand to move. I'm

(02:02:06):
like, Kurt, let's look atthe biggest crib. So we in him
bought a hun We bought like alittle two bedroom, two bathroom house in
Beverly Hills, and they gave usa uh remember said they used to have
a recording fund, so Kirk,you could equipment a dats and everything and

(02:02:27):
all that. That's when the aidthat's right. So we moved in the
apartment. We didn't decorate it withmuch. We had a big giant basketball
living room. And then Kurt bought, uh, what's that game sake of
Genesis He's on Fire. We playedthat every night in a big giant living
room with two rocket chess. Soyou know, in the meantime, you

(02:02:50):
know, we're in the house workingon sex styles and were working on sex
Styles. You know all that uhsex Style, the record sex Style,
don't crush it all the sex Styletracks. So what happened is, you
know, when Kurt we finished sexStyle, so Capital's holding sex Style.

(02:03:11):
They don't know what to do.Careres As signed over there with uh Channel
Live, Channel Live, and youknow Foxy Brown has signed over there,
and it was funny. I almosthad a argument Foxy Brown in the lobby
or signed the hardway with Elo andI didn't know who she was or something
and told him. He said,it is the girl I forgot her name.
Ain't good, We're gonna sign us. So it was like, I'm

(02:03:32):
just I don't know. We hadlike a difference, an argument or something.
I was like, I don't knowwhy. I think it's something.
It was something like a small situationor something. And I was like,
who is this girl, Like Ididn't know who she was, and it
was it got into more. Ididn't know who she was. But anyway,
me and Kurt went over there andworked on sex style and Automated was

(02:03:53):
a guy that come down and hurtand help Kurt with his equipment, and
and Automated was a good guy tohook up kurt equipment. So you know,
Kurt lived together. You know,we stayed together, went shopping together
for food and stuff every day.You know. Then Kurt got mad because
Kurt started buying Stella, door Redand Celery and all this, and I

(02:04:14):
was buying Captain crunch and popcorn,and Kirk got mad and used to leave
me in the supermarket and I hadto walk all the way from the supermarket
and cars passing me by, likedamn, you don't got no ride to
put your groceries in. You knowwhen you walk into California, people looking
at you. Create. So wefinished the album Capital puts Sex Dollar a

(02:04:34):
hole. You know. We we'reballing in the LA with money going to
clubs, and I forgot, likeall the stuff underground, you know anything.
I wasn't going to project blowing nothing. I just felt like I was
shocked. I was shock. Wedid the record and they put on the
show, so Automatic came down middleof It, flew out to LA and

(02:04:56):
we did some spaceshit just messing aroundthe house like got it was the Great
Western Forum, and uh there wasanother track you know, you know me
and middle La just the tracts Meand middle Leg on no Awareness Yeah no,
yeah, and that kind of tracksthat they Kirk did two of them,
not not nowhere. One of there'stwo tracks Me and middle Lake is
rhyming crazy. So Automated comes downand hear it and say, yo,

(02:05:20):
I wanna they doing something with that. I want to bring this up to
these two concept songs up to let'scome up this let's get a situation and
come up to come up to SanFrancisco. So me, I say,
okay, and maybe a couple ofweeks I come up there. So after

(02:05:41):
a couple of weeks, Automated bringsme up to San Francisco. Meanwhile,
sex Style is still on the shelf. You know. I go up there
and finished the record, you know, bringing some you who's and donuts.
I laid the vocals to everything likeone day, like two days, the
most like girl let Me Touch You. I knocked out, you know,

(02:06:01):
all all the stores during two days. In two days. So I'm on
the roof because I was a beastwriting. So Automative brings me up to
San Francisco for maybe no more thanfour days. So I take one day
to go out and walk around MarketStreet. Then the other three days I'm
going up in the roof. He'smaking pot stickers. You know, we're
going to Brandy Hills getting Chinese food. But he was the first one to

(02:06:25):
introduced me to those dumplings. Sohe brings dumplings up in the attic and
I'm knocking out tracks left and right. So I'm like, you know,
like you said nowhere in thisess threethousand the tracks. She's coming to me
like just like water to my head. I had no writer's block. I'm
working around San Francisco in the daytime. At night, I go up in

(02:06:45):
the attic. We called all thesongs, so we knocked the album.
He said, I'm gonna mix itnext week. You know, he got
the two concert records. But thisall really spun from the two concert records
that Middlelich had and on that.On the top of that. In between
that, I'm in Hollywood reading badpress and you know, God Bless the
Dead, MF. Doom and whoeverlike you know, I think Mad Live

(02:07:09):
and all the other rappers that wassupposed to be you know, I had
supposed to be in the press andRolling Stone and all the magazines and Spend
and eternative press. I was supposedto be the guy that fell off and
you know, in that so calledrat world of you know, lyrical rat
world of you know, Rooper Murdochand sound bombing. I was supposed to

(02:07:32):
hat fell off to whatever all thenew rappers that was coming out at that
time and sound the rocky sound,you know. And then of course MF.
Doom was running stuff. So andthen you had a lot of other
rappers that was coming, you know, even though me and much of the
names to see each other a lotat right at me and most death.

(02:07:54):
You know, you had all thestuff, the staff of that label stuff,
and it just all kinds a newrappers, you know, whatever new
rapper was supposed to have been there. And I was reading an articles this
is what Keith should be doing,and this is how Keith fell off,
and this is why Keith fell off, and Keith should be doing what this
dude, This dude is another versionof cool keep on steroids. I'm reading

(02:08:16):
the press like I'm always at themagazine, staying reading bad press about me.
So the album to come out yet, So I was like, hold
on, I gotta go do thisalbum and make something to shut everybody up.
So I went up there. Youknow, I've been reading months of
bad press about me. Everybody waslike, I'm done, I'm moving with

(02:08:37):
I put out all kinds of wildprojects that shouldn't be out, and the
last couple of things I worked onhasn't been worth anything. So what happened
is, UH went up in.We finally got the album mastered and finished,
and they dropped it and the presswent crazy and everybody, the magazines

(02:08:58):
and everybody. The album was sodope that it stormed into the rock department.
It stormed into the alternative department.Its stormed into hardcore rap. It's
stormed radio was huge, and collegeradio. Yeah, it stormed in the
college radio. It stormed in alternative. It's it's so the record killed every

(02:09:18):
genre and every every hardcore rapper fromstreets that you know, anything from all
nostalgia of streets, the sound rock, it's it tore everybody and whoever they
thought was like they was talking aboutme, that they our chief should have

(02:09:39):
been doing this. It's it justdestroyed all of that stuff. So I
was happy about that. The presswent crazy again, and I'm king of
the underground. I'm king of allof whatever stuff. Everybody's doing, stuff
that's supposed to been I supposed tobeen doing. So I'm king back up
that again. So I'm running inla. I'm running all of the the

(02:10:00):
ground, all of the nostalgia soundbombings, all of the hydra, all
of the every damn thing your name. So, uh, you know,
they give middle Kod deal. Imean Roncas gives mental Kod deal because I
got Mental under Me. Between MentalLeik and Godfather Don you were instrumental and
bring them h to the forefront ofthe indie hip hop circuit. I mean

(02:10:24):
yeah, all those groups, evenco Flow, you single hand leave influenced
almost every model. Yeah, everybody'scoming out Flaw I mean, Hi mighty.
I mean I just ran the wholecircuit, like I put it out.
That album made me just gained mytitle back because I had negative press
in LA, Like everything I wasreading was h you know, anything he

(02:10:46):
was putting out lately. He's tryingto do his side projects and kh him
and this and that and whatever he'sworking on with this one is that's just
something extra. And the Chief andthe Basements and the cage him and the
you know if Keith collaborated with Ishamon spake Master, so they started going
like projects. So I was like, Okay, they're getting the kind of

(02:11:09):
kind of bold you know, talkingabout me, especially Rolling Stone of course,
I mean I and and and Spend. You know. Then when Octagon
came out, like you said,it just took it took everything Best Stone,
the press change, then black Out, you know, Spent in the
black elt was and I mean,but back to Octagon. That record took

(02:11:31):
me back to square one of critics. Critics had shut their mouth, put
their finger in their ass, andleft me alone. So that was that
was really I think ninety five ninetysix it got rereleased. Tell me how
you guys got put onto Dream versusfrom a financial who well, well,

(02:11:52):
well, well we met kurse neighborwas Marvin mac and then he was a
neighbor. He was like, Yo, they want to just switch it over,
man, Let's take it. AndTony Isabella came down and Dan's manager.
See, I like when Dan hadTony Isabella, that was so much
better. She was very understanding.I mean, I thought Tony was mean,

(02:12:13):
but I think that was one ofDan's best managers ever. Be besides,
the second manager was not totally agood manager of communicating, you know.
And then you know, Dan hada lot of you know, gatekeepers
within me and him. Me andDan's thought was talking to me and Dan,
don't even talk to him more tome and Dan had to do shows

(02:12:33):
together, but me and him andCuba got to talk to through the two
through three different managers to talk toeach other. So it got pathetic.
So instead of meet him and Cubagoing to a restaurant and just talked together.
We was taught, you know,you had managers talking to each other.
So it didn't make any sense whenme and him and Cuba could have

(02:12:54):
just had a group. Originally startedme him and Cuba's talked to each other
and they got be doing instead ofCubic manager talking to my manager, and
now my manager is talking dance manager. And because then started this manager talk
shit. So me and Cuba wasalways let's talk live in person, let's
go to the restaurant. To thisday, let's talking person and automatis got

(02:13:18):
a little slight Hollywood basically, youknow, and I made him happen,
so you know that's what happened.Basically, she gets some coffee. He's
sleeping outside. He's gonna sleeping,man said, you in Georgia, sleeping
sideways. He's like like a fuckingowl, and I'll watch out for a

(02:13:41):
bear. Come grab you a beggol, Come grab Carolina. Carolina.
I think I think he's got atent outside. It was like, yeah,
he's in a tent in the woods. Bad like you said, coming
in, build you on, timthat build a treehouse? You said,
agree, you sloth. You seethat behind you. You you see the

(02:14:07):
grizzly behind you. I'm gonna talkquick, although you guys talking a lie
and I want to interrupt you becauseyou so we're finishing up about doctor doctor
doctam. But I'm just gonna breakyou down because I like to keep it,
keep order. So the other albumthat came out in ninety six was

(02:14:31):
the Center Bites record with you andDon and I think it was Bobbito.
Okay, so that album real quick. We don't have to spend too much
time on it, but again justto kind of give the listeners of aggression.
Okay, okay, okay, theCenter Bites, tell me quickly about
it. Was it supposed to beat collaboration or did it just end up

(02:14:52):
that way? After the Center Biteswas just collaborated a lot of reggors Me
and Don made that we didn't useand then Barbeto liked it him to be.
But we didn't really care about therecords, me and Donna until Barbeto
dressed us and said, yo,this is some cool stuff. But we
me and Don made a lot ofrecords for all kinds of stuff. The

(02:15:16):
album for Horseman, me and Donwas recording just every day song. So
me and Don had a collabor ofextra stuff to put on a Center Bytes
record. Anyway, me and Downwere natural recorders after work, he could
work, we'd go straight to thebook when sometimes Middelik would go over there.
We just made records. So theCenter bys was a collage of stuff
that Don put on the record.I mean Don had a lot of songs

(02:15:39):
that he never even put out.Like Don had a lot of records,
and but he had something with methat we put out with Barbeto. And
that's how the Center Byes became about. Tell me about this one right here,
big oh, big time. Wellthat was where Eddie Pugh Kurtain Rex

(02:16:01):
did the production and you know Timhalf down Eddie Pu and Eddie p was
like Tim. Tim kind of leakedwith Eddie Pu and turned the executives.
And Tim was a kind of sueof just getting with big people with money.
Eddie Pull was a big ready.I think Eddie Pue was like a

(02:16:22):
big radio man for like Warner Brothers. So what happened. I think Eddie
Pull was still independent, talking likeyo, you know we're gonna do it
ourselves. I got the game downpacked. So Tim Eddie pu was big
with radio and Tim for negled hisway into Eddie Pugh's life. And you
know what Tim is? Tim?Once Tim get the magic wand Tim was

(02:16:46):
probably so Eddie pull all kinds oftricks. Now, was Tim an honorary
member like he was? He likea cappa donna of the crew. He
wasn't official, but he was kindof like an honorary member. I liked
him. Tim was a very goodsmart man, like Tim Kins. Timkins,
he went to doing something. Tima lot of people. Tim is

(02:17:07):
good business. No, he's actuallyhe's a jail member. Tim. Tim
was living in my house. Butbut did you guys consider him a member
of Ultra or was he an honorarymember of all? He was? Tim
had his own album, he wasa member. He stayed in ouse.
Yeah, he stayed in the house. He lived in the house. He

(02:17:30):
ate, he ate my mother's food. It is Tim was a calm man.
He wasn't good at business. Hewas good at getting into business.
But I mean that that's the art. But that is the art. That
is, yes art, he's JimAs he has an art. But we

(02:17:52):
know what I do like about Timwhere some others like managers and stuff.
Tim did put money into anything tomake himself a star. Tim will go
buy clothes. Him would do anythingto make it believe, which is good,
like the illusion, because the wholeindustry is an illusion. So Tim,
mind you of a lot of themid Western, the guys in the

(02:18:15):
South, whatever you had to taketo look like a rapper, Tim would
do it. Tim would go buyany all means like what the industry is
really about? What renting and likeyou said, giving you the giving you
the look to make it believe.We can go on and on about Tim,
but you know got I liked him, Yeah, I liked him different

(02:18:39):
here. I like, yeah,well, I mean there's no death certificate,
so it's allegedly a matter of fact, he changed his name and he's
in a different city. I meanI saw Tim yesterday. He saw Tim
and Hall Foods. Decision your route. Let's talk real quick. I'm moving

(02:19:05):
on sex Styles. It's another jointyou did with Come After Kirk. This
is all punky, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
this is this is kind of likeyou know, it was a big,
big component of this album was sexStyle. Sex Style. I really
owned that record. I mean,I don't know how Kirk claimed it.
I mean I owned sex Styles,basically, I got sex Styles back from

(02:19:28):
Capitol Records. I owned sex Styles. But I think, you know,
maybe Curtis maybe still using things froma church. And you know, I
came over to Funky as logo andyou nothing like that. I was a
total project. Sex Style was givingback to me. So we had some
independent things to do with sex Style, a record giving back to me from

(02:19:50):
Capitol Records that you know, whichis capital didn't they dunk no money from
us and all the money they gaveus. But I guess you know,
a lot of people got attached tothe record. I didn't give up on
sex Style, just we didn't donothing with it. I kept it.
They gave it back, and itgave me back the catalog. And then
I guess Kurt started going at usown way to do a little uh T

(02:20:11):
shirts and putting the record back outagain and all that, which you know,
Kirk can do a brand new album. I hope Kurt is out there
listening. You know, we cando it. You know, you can
do another record instead of you know, just trying to maybe live off a
sex Style. But uscord is.Uh is the Doctor Dooming? There's another

(02:20:35):
record. Me and Kurt did DoctorDoom. You know, same thing was
with Doctor Doone went to it?I think Doctor Doone was distributed by Caroline
or one of them. Uh whatwas the distribution on the back of it?
Uh, Doctor Doone went up toI think it was a late Goo
Google, okay, new Google.Me and Kurt just some deals with that.

(02:20:56):
So you know which is Kurt fellin love with those catalogs a lot,
and I just went on to makenew music. Kurt just loves Sex
Style and Doctor Doom so much.But it seems like part of all of
this, you know, he wasa part of all of these. Yeah,
he loves he loves it, eveneven the Master's Delusion. Great albums.

(02:21:16):
But like I said, you know, Kurt loves those three albums so
much. And and you know andBlack Elvis you get ready to put out
is that was the album with Columbiawith Joe the Butcher and Sports and like
Fellow and everybody got behind the Timderbon. Black always became a some classic and

(02:21:39):
took the world by storm. AndBlack always put me in another scene too,
you know. But it was alot of controversy with Black Elways because
it didn't come out and the fansemailed Sony and then you know, then
I had a friend I can't puthis name out there that worked at Sony
and he told me like, oh, you know Urban, the Urban Department

(02:22:00):
or the pomp Department don't know whatto do with the wreck. Black Elvis
recording the forty eight track Studio MadisonSwift Guard the sound check to speak the
rack. Fans in the upper levelbackstage passes wearing Timonds around my glasses Leather
Coote thirty thousand for Wilson Counta,the Bilson talking to Andrea Realm and the
show for driving me around in theGreen Wolves, Royce Parallel on Fifth Avenue,
stepping in Bluemdale's waiting for Selene Danto get a nailed up? Who

(02:22:24):
Days Start tomorrow? MC, y'allsend the cash to wals Margo, Black
Elvis twenty eight G's at Night twelveus with the Marley Fou Who Gonna stop
Poop Rock Start? Don't need notattoo? So I mean Matola told you
that, now, Tommy Matola,Nah, I'm saying it was a friend
of my good friend, of mycamp for him not but he told me

(02:22:45):
he worked up. But he said, yo, man Nay Urban and the
pomp Department, don't they The armis so different. They don't know what
to do. It is so ButI had told him the market black Elvis
urbanly at first, you know,but they took the cover picture and did
this sci fi stuff. See,people wanted to be weird. We never

(02:23:05):
was weird. We was in thebronx. I said, YO, promote
the album like you promote any Rand B record on the radio. Promote
the record like Teddy Rilet you takethe record like Teddy, You pick a
song you promoted like Teddy Rod,you promoted like Paddy Label. They were
trying too much to be distinctive.They were trying to, you know,
promote the album through space and bringit back into the city and take it

(02:23:28):
out to droopiter And I said,just take the record up to radio and
promote it at Essence festival anything regular. They didn't listen. Cover made them
feel like, you know, wegotta promote the record, you know,
with a rocket ship behind it,and we gotta build a capsule. They
ran away. Basically, they weretrying to capture that college audience. You

(02:23:50):
had one at one time, youknow what I mean for the success of
Octagon in My Eyes. So youhad a pretty remarkable running. This is
another album that came out in twothousand. Matthew mat Matthew was the album.
I was just mad and upset andI took all my that's a street
this album I did, like,you know, I had Bumpy on that.

(02:24:11):
I mean, I was gonna askabout that dam Bumpy dish you guys
on his debut album, and thenyou worked with Bumpy on this now that
not a bumpy knock was telling mytoe my fit, Well, yeah,
tell me and Freddie Fox did arecord on Freddy Fox did it me and
Freddy Fox was cool. Freddy Foxdid a record with me on on Feature

(02:24:33):
Magnetic. Yeah, but when hefirst dropped I'm talking what ninety three,
ninety four, you might had ajoint that was an ultra dis Oh yeah,
yeah, I remember. Yeah,But he always did records like,
well, Freddy you know, he'sa good he's a lyricist. So he
did that record behind Yo Black Yeah, yeah, well you know me and

(02:24:56):
right now, Freddy Fox made recordsafter that. Every day. It was
cool. So I mean back then, you know, everybody had lyrical defense
right against me. It was alwayshow can you put up Fox against the
alligated? That was just a metaphor. Yeah, it was a metaphor,
got it. So that's what initiatedthe short of beef. Of course you

(02:25:18):
worked with him a few years later, so I was kind of curious how
that came about. Let's talk aboutthe relationship you have with Iced Tea.
Right, here's the Analog Brothers,which is a which is another record that
you know, true ultra fans,key fans are going to have in their
collection. Keith and uh, youguys and Iced Tea have been pretty much

(02:25:43):
supporters of one another since, youknow, since day one. He's a
big, big fan of you guys. Always speaks highly of you guys.
Tell us tell us about you know, your relationship with Iced Tea and what
his uh, what he's meant towardsyou know, you guys, not just
as a as a group, butuh, you know, as as friends

(02:26:03):
going through Uh you know, well, I we should remember, I think
we did our first show with Icewhen he came to New York at the
what was that theater? What thattheater? What's that in the Prospect Theater.
Ice came over there to the ProspectTheater. But Ice always been a

(02:26:24):
friend of mine through day one.You know, for some reason, Ice
always been there. And I knewIce when I went to LA you know,
he helped make you know, makesure I was okay. And then
we used to come up to thehis house on the hill and play the
Octagon album in the dark. Andyou know, Ice house used to look
off the mountain and it looked likespace and we would turn the lights out

(02:26:46):
and men of that come up.Then we would play like records off the
Octagon album and he would he wouldflip out like we'd be in the dark
listening. So you know, Icealways was around, even personal with the
music, and you know, justregular hang out and going to clubs and
Los Angeles and anywhere in New YorkerJersey, and you know, he's just
one of my international, high profiletelevision friends and always been there for us

(02:27:13):
from day one. So I mean, it's an automatic guy. He always
come to the table and help uswhatever whatever we need at certain times.
Did he ever try to get youon the show, Uh No, I
don't know. I've been pursued.I did a commercial with him one time,
a long time ago in LA.I forgot it was something, you
know, like a commercial. WhenI first came to LA it was like

(02:27:37):
I forgot what it was for amotorcycle or soapod of it or something.
But you know, it was justdifferent things. But you know, I
don't be around them and when they'rewriting scripts and stuff like that, but
as far as music and everything,hanging out and doing more personal stuff and
riding around. You know, whenI was in La me and Ice was
riding around in the Rose Royce andgoing in the hood it and you know,

(02:28:00):
going down to South Central. Youknow, when I was in Los
Angeles, I didn't have a lotof beef with a lot of people.
I think I was a person ofthe community, being from Ultra and a
lot of the people in more downthan real deep down parts of LA knew
of Ultra Magnetic. I mean,you'd be surprised that a lot of even
people that was in the gang culture, they collected critical beat Down and you

(02:28:24):
know, they knew I was outthere working on stuff. So a lot
of people were still in the Ultraand people down in the Project Blow area,
Peach, people down in different partsof LA and you know, all
of even the the neo soul partof LA to you know, different parts.

(02:28:46):
Everybody was down with what we wasdoing. So you know, when
I came out there, I didn'trealize that I was such an influence of
Los Angeles for the cultural music thatwe made the foundation because I guess ka,
they played a lot of stuff fromfrom the Critical Beatdown album and which

(02:29:07):
spawned people to continue to be intothe discography of all those records that you
showed in Los Angeles, and youknow, culturally, you know, just
an international you know, people selectedall those songs from Seattle to Los Angeles
to Oakland to Denver to Boston,Billy you could definitely say like Freestyle,

(02:29:35):
Fellowship, Jurassic Five, all thesegroups were heavily influenced by by Ultra.
Let's kind of debate a little bit, because I do want to touch on
this because I always found it sofascinating that the Prodigy, which was a
huge group and was the mid ninetiesand I'm ninety seven something like that,

(02:29:56):
ninety eight when they didn obviously weheard said explain how that came about,
But that had to be something whereyou got exposed to millions and millions of
different people, like a different demographic. It's gonna reintroduced Kool Keith to a
whole legion of people. Right,What was that like at that time?

(02:30:20):
You know, uh, shows,two, A three shows with the I
mean Liam, you know, Iwent to Europe when I was in Europe,
but they sampled. It was onthe Maverick label and that record sold
three main records and that was justa part of the dance scene with smack
my bid Shop smack. And thenit was another record to Diesel Power and

(02:30:41):
you know, it was a greatrecord to do it at, you know
shows and stuff. So it wasa part of a dance record and it
didn't have the lyrics on. Itwas just that sample was just all over
the place, all over the dancemusic scene. So I mean it was
my voice and I don't know,just that record just blew up like uh,

(02:31:03):
like a balloon, and the recordblew up. And I was on
their second album to another track.They had another album I was on.
So I've been on you know Prodigythings to the whole the group and the
band and God bless the guy.What happened to the league guy? You
know? So I think that tooka lot of toll on the group and

(02:31:24):
stuff. But other than that,you know, my wishes to them were
were the best in everything. Soyou know you've been sampled an awful lot.
One of my favorite NAS joints isTaken in Blood. Yes, great,
great sample there. When when youfirst heard that record? First of
all, did you know you weregoing to be sampled on that album that

(02:31:46):
I wanted like that? That Iwanted like that? That? Really?
I think my me and my girlfriendtold him about the record that he used
it, and then later on wefound out more and I told Eddie about
it and like and then we tookcare of the business part of it.

(02:32:09):
But I didn't know that he usedthe record to when they heard it,
and then you know that was cool. You know that I heard that song
and that's when you know when Ilistened to some of the stuff that he
got and that was on the Kingalbum that it was written that the other
one that wasn't Yeah, that wasEscobar. Let's get into the alter ego
because we're talking about nonas Escobar.I feel like you share are pretty much

(02:32:33):
responsible for the alter egos becoming somethinglike Doom had an alter ego Bobby Digital
was an alter ego. I mean, Andre three thousand was wearing wigs because
you were wearing wigs and video shoots. Yeah, a part of that had
to a part of that had tofeel good, but a part of that
also had to feel like they werebiting his style. Mmm, you know

(02:32:58):
he could do. I mean Ijust felt that when people every when when
people went to the podium, youknow, did they express what they saw.
I think the industry got more corruptat that point than people wouldn't acknowledge
stuff like that, But I wasn'tlooking for it because I kind of knew

(02:33:20):
how people would be anyway. Youknow, like you said, nowadays,
the industry is more arrogant than ever, so they go up and not even
mention who started what for real,or they'll come with some kind of stuff
where they think it started, youknow. So you know, everybody got
their opinions. It's not not thatI I could do, but I I

(02:33:43):
mean, hey, what could yousay? You know? But I looked
at it from Afar and said,I just gotta keep doing what I'm doing
and be creative and start new othertrends. So, you know, I
I kind of looked at a lotof that stuff from far away, and
I was like it it was kindof funny and comical at the same time,

(02:34:03):
you know, but I was doingso much work that it didn't distract
me that, you know, somepeople to let stuff like that make them
go bitter or kill themselves or commitsuicide. I was like, you know,
it was kind of funny that Igot a kick out of how people
just ran with stuff and made uptheir own their own scenarios of who started

(02:34:28):
this and who started that, soit kind of got comical. I want
to talk about the new album obviouslywith you, and said, although I
think said maybe, uh, thesecond am right now a back, wake
your wake your wake yourself up,break yourself a great forgot this dude in

(02:34:50):
Carolina. We only see your faceno more. He's running around the woods
with uh Keith Murray in North Carolina. Let's let's quickly talk about this.
How there we go, we gotyou. Let's talk about this new album,
uh said g Kool Keith Ultra Magneticumsees first and foremost. I know

(02:35:13):
it's on vinyl for a lot ofa lot of DJs, right, it's
on Rough Nations. Tell the listeners. One about the project, you know
why it finally happened after all theseyears. What can we expect from this
album? Is there a more instore? And where obviously they can hit
the come an instrument, but scientificpurposes, tiensists to be the best alphobist.

(02:35:39):
You can't insist so to that vocalist. Appreciate your brain levels going to
ja brain levels gonna hit frequently,so elegant, I could make dames relevant
or irrelevant when you come to myBRAINI bit I stand peace, I can

(02:36:00):
look bed make it sound much.Third, because my talented haven't been well.
The album basically is like us justhaving no limitations. We did all
kinds of stuff basically on this one. So it wasn't for people was to
criticize and be like, well,it wasn't critical beat down, it wasn't
a four horsemen, it wasn't funyour head up. It was just the

(02:36:24):
ocean album. Piefa said, like, people, it's not for you to
rink rank any sounds from Oh itwasn't like this album, and how come
they didn't do that? And youknow you got a lot of people too,
They got their own feelings of whatwe might have did. Elevation wise.
You know, we didn't do everytrack with big words. You know,

(02:36:46):
we got all kinds of songs,a variety of different records. There's
no laws right now musically, andyou know, Sharon picked out a lot
of the tracks, and you knowshe was an executive produce, the girl
picking songs, and you know,we just wrote a lot of stuff.
I did tracks. Number one producersaid, did tracks, and we did

(02:37:09):
like a big album, you know, four side of the album with everything,
because we have to peak now musicthat we could do what we want
basically, not for the critic tosay, this is what we didn't do.
Oh, they didn't use a certainkind of producer on this. They
didn't They didn't sample. They didsample. We just did what we wanted

(02:37:31):
to do. Is this a samplebased record? You got shampoos, you
got non samples, you got alltypes of stuff on there. Like Keith
said, there's no rules. Wedidn't do any rules. Like no rules.
It's called it's like a no rulealbum because we did both from all
albums we ever made. We didthe best of the sentence tize of the

(02:37:52):
world. We did the best ofthe sample world. So we do have
a green light to make anything wewant. It's just kind of cool because
we still made a record. Youknow, a lot of people that came
out at the same time we didcan't even function and make a record.
We actually did a record together,another record of a lot of tracks,

(02:38:15):
the content. A lot of peoplethat came on the Golden Ever can't even
make new records. You probably won'thear any new records from anybody in the
Golden Age. None. None.It is crazy to see people who were
so influential. I'm not calling outnames, but like you know, jayru
which put out some crazy amazing records. I mean, I just feel like

(02:38:39):
whatever new stuff he puts out,it just doesn't make much sense, you
know. So the fact that youguys still stay very connected, understand equipment,
still understand you know, writing lyrics, I mean on all platforms.
I mean, it's really refreshing.M right. Well, you know too,
I think a lot of the artistsfrom the eighties have a problem basically

(02:39:05):
with the record company structures. Likea lot of artists are waiting for deals,
you know, they still waiting foradvances, they're still waiting to start
a record. They don't have thosethey used to being on those labels.
Right back then, we used tosign and get it. You know what
that said, you get your pofor the studio. A lot of the
groups are out of that format andthey turned into the baby. They need

(02:39:28):
formula and the labels is not,you know, doing it like that.
No more, they're not doing that. You gotta make your records out the
box itself. So that heard alot of artists that you might have wanted
to hear now because the record companiesthey had dependent on the record companies,

(02:39:48):
where the Southern guys and other regionswith their own records are independent. You
also dropped. I don't want toconfuse the listeners because you drop albums like
almost every month. But Black Helvistoo actually just came out recently as well
on on Mellow Music. So wepaid for it. I paid for it,

(02:40:11):
what metal music? But I paidfor my records. I paid for
records. You mean you paid tomake those records. I pay to make
records all year round, so otherartists don't pay for to make the records.
That's what I said. We saidas equipment anyway, we get a
record made without the company telling usto make a record. So you can

(02:40:37):
have more Ultra projects moving forward,Yep said, it's got to move back
into the house from the forest.So definitely you're gonna start making more more
Ultra records. Say you gotta movedback into that. We expect more Ultra

(02:41:01):
with is it going to be justYouTube or or well we see appearances by
other former members. Okay, letme ask you a question. That's what
he once said, he tr Loveand Mode. That's what you're talking about,
right, Yeah, I mean Ithink naturally people are curious. They

(02:41:22):
don't always know the backstory. Butwhen they think of Ultra, if they
think of four dudes and now youtwo are the most intricate part of Ultra.
But naturally people want to know,is uh you know it? Tr
or am I gonna show up onGRAF? Came to the studio last night.
We're working on something with more Loveand he put the baseline on something

(02:41:43):
and left. We see each otherso but but said, can maybe further
explain? I mean, I mean, what can you do when somebody quit?
If somebody quit, they quit,So so cam't back bro man?
No, No, that's I rememberBlack thought telling us about Malik be not

(02:42:05):
wanting to uh but money talking moneytalks. If you guys play offer a
big you guys offer maybe a coupleof million. I think our you get
the whole group that you like,you would get check back. Then it's
too late to big money coming.You can't come back. You can't put

(02:42:28):
your job as at uh, youcan't quit your job at the New York
Stock Exchange, and then when thestock is change start booming, you say
want my job back. Life doesn'twork like that, right, I mean
as me and said carrying the project. I guess people feel you think a
group that's broken up, that wedon't deserve hall of fame or our credentials

(02:42:52):
because you guys are not not ahole. Do I think that? Yeah,
yeah, you should be strong.She should be stripped of your of
your you know, but a lotof groups still wouldn't wasn't together still gain
still gain the cohistory you just talkedabout, you know, the prodigy.

(02:43:13):
You know that unfortunately Keith Richards,you know he's descended someplace else. This
is part of life that this lifeKeith Richards died talk about exhilarating. Yeah,
Keith Richard, Hello kiddies, Yes, time time the fuck Keith's talk

(02:43:37):
about Keith from Prodigies. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it
is almost one o'clock. We've beentalking for a close three hours. They
got with for a minute. ButI'm thinking that about the album ahead,
because I hear Sharon in the background. I don't want to want to step

(02:43:58):
on anybody. Go ahead. Yeah. I wanted to say something about the
album because again, Cedric had beenkind of like in the process of trying
to get an album done prior tothis album, the project that he has
now, and it seemed like everytime he was trying to the the group

(02:44:20):
or the people that were coming togetherto try to work together to do an
ultra album, it just wouldn't Itwouldn't come about for some reason. They
would be in the middle of aproject and then then something would happen and
it wouldn't go through. So Ihad remember it because I was, you
know, I was around them andso and I was saying the Keith I

(02:44:41):
said to him one day, Isaid, it seems like Cedric can't get
the project going forward because it seemedlike stuff has happened, like it was
kept on, like conflict going onwithin the group of people that they were
working with. And then I justsaid to myself, I said, you
know what, Keith, we needto just do this for subject ourselves.

(02:45:01):
And we went to him and weasked him would he'd be willing to do
an album, and he agreed andwe sat down and we got through it,
and I think it was the bestthing that happened for him. For
us to be able to see thetwo guys work together again, it was

(02:45:24):
an honor for me. It wasalso a pleasure, and I'm so grateful
that we was able to get throughthrough the album without no problems. And
this just kept on seeming like everytime they were working with a group of
people, it just it just seemedlike it was just just it was not

(02:45:48):
happening. At the end of theday of ultrasounds and me and said,
are the head officials from every albumin the past that you ever held up
your hand for the Ultra we arethe last has to approve of sounds.
I don't care if we had anyother producer working on at anybody within the
group. We are the last toapprove any sounds. So it's still the

(02:46:11):
final decisions coming between us of approvingthe last sounds. Even when we were
working with Trevor and Mow they didn'tain't no wax sounds getting past. It's
not going to the top of theboard because at the official point part of
the console men would wouldn't let anythinggo by. So everything you've heard had

(02:46:33):
to be approved sounds and samples fromMoe and Trevor anything. So because we
had controlled high officials of sounds.And I want to also say that I
don't have it's I don't have anyanimosity of I don't have any conflict with
any other group members. I've knownKeith and Cedric in Trevor over thirty years.

(02:46:56):
Yeah, I've known from over thirtyyears, been around when I was
around, when Tim was right input Compton. I've been around a long
time and I had Like I said, I knew the guys for over thirty
years. And I was the onethat told keep about nas That's what he
was talking about. That was me. I was the one that told him

(02:47:16):
about that song. I was ridingone day to pick him up from his
house and then I was plad totape end to tape day and I was
playing it. I was like,wait a second, called keeper. I
was like, hey, yes,soon it's on NAS tape. He was
like, what wor that was sofunny. He got a call you heard

(02:47:37):
he was like, he was like, what is going on? I'm calling
my lawyer this thing. This isthe thing A lot of people putting the
shift on NAS when it was trackmasters, right, NAS told me he
he asked them they're cool and theysaid, don't worry about because they see

(02:48:01):
So this was the insult with thatalbum. This was the insult. They
had clear every other sample on thealbum except that sample. So that was
like you see what I'm saying,Almost like they didn't think you were worthy
enough to even ask you. Youwould be happy to be on it.
It will only give you, guyspromotion. So our listeners are only going

(02:48:22):
to hear the audio version of this. But I swear man, if you
saw the video version, said islike Stevie Wonder for the last hour and
a half sleeping, his eyes areshut. This is what are we?
What are we? Almost at oneo'clock? Ye Look, I can't thank
you guys enough. I want todo a quick word game before we leave
just a few minutes because you guysneed to sleep. But I appreciate everything

(02:48:46):
sharing. You're the glue that holdseverything together. So keep doing it and
thank you, thank you, andkeep pushing you because like, as long
as you guys keep making music,there's gonna be people like myself and our
listeners are gonna want to listen toit. And you know, like you
said, not many people from thaterror are still making music to this day.

(02:49:07):
So it's an honor to still bedoing it and having people listen and
want it and demand it and buyit. So continue to do it.
But before we go out of here, because I know Set is about to
go night night, all right,what a let's do a quick game of
award association. So simple. AllI do is I say a word or

(02:49:28):
a name, whatever, and youguys tell me what comes to mind.
We could take turns to make iteasy. I'll start said first, because
I know he's about to be passedout. Ready, Bill comes me.
Selfish. That's it, That's whatyou gave me out of everything. Selfish,
yes, selfish? All right?So okay, here's a selfish egotistical

(02:49:50):
I think because he has money,he can just do what he wants.
Okay. Would you say karma gothim? Oh yeah, okay. And
for a lot of people that don'tknow what I'm referring to. Said is
actually responsible for making an album.This is way before Bill Cosby got into
trouble, obviously many many years ago, and there was some some bad blood

(02:50:13):
behind it. So that is whyI mentioned Bill Cosby. Yeah, Keith
for middlely UH, inspirational person,lyrical, SPA and partner. Do you
still have a relationship with uh?With him? I talked the middle like

(02:50:35):
yesterday. Okay, so I guessyou do. And he was just said
he worked on some tracks with grandfatherdone. Where is he? He's up
state Connecticut. So you know we'regoing to get some tracks back to middle.
Like you said, we get himback in the studio. That will

(02:50:56):
make you guys smile. Well,middle back in the studio. Well,
I don't a lot of people.I haven't heard from him in ages.
You know, he kind of felloff the radar. So I think when
people associate mental liquid with you know, with with you, so to hear
that you guys are even communicating andputting out stuff, that's that's pretty cool,

(02:51:20):
you know mentally. Like I said, we approved every sound, every
sound that came out through the malmalsbe the final approvement, said I'm gonna
go back to this, but tellme just in a few words. Fuck
Compton. They don't tell me playchord that you didn't know this was gonna
be a crazy fucking record. Ifeel like you knew exactly what this was

(02:51:43):
gonna be, so to be acrazy record. But uh, you know,
if if Tim would have stayed oncourse and not be the calm man
and stay focus and uh, itcould have been very special. There's a

(02:52:03):
reason put it like this. There'sa reason why when they did the nw
A movie they act like it neverhappened, because they knew hit them hard
and they you know, people inLA was asking him, yo, what's
up man? You know, andhe hit them hard with that. That

(02:52:24):
was George Foman and his George FoemanMike Tyson in their prime punch Keith.
This is uh, this is fromour mutual friend Tommy. He told me
to ask you about Japan. Sotell me word association what comes to mind?
Because I gave you a little backgroundwhy he said this. He said,

(02:52:45):
I'm talking about Tom's E three said, you guys did a quick tour
out there. Everybody just say height, heights, and I guess that was
yeah, a lot when I wasin Japan, height he ever wins,
Is it true you ate the samething every day while you were there.
I went to get I went toTG out Fridays a lot in the McDonald's

(02:53:09):
because you know, Japan is alittle god, you know, it has
a different it has a little spreadout menu. I don't want to gamm.
He said that you would go getfried rice from one shop and go
next door and get fried trimp andthen you would cut up the fried trimp
with a plastic and combine it.And you did that every day you were

(02:53:31):
there. I did that. Plushe said you hated the porn because all
the Asian porns boxed out. Icouldn't see that censored. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, blurred on it. That'snot bl Yeah, it was blurred.

(02:53:52):
It was blurred. It was blurredand everything I did that poem,
but it was blurred. And theydo a lot of knee high socks out
there. That's like a big thing, knee high up to the knees college
socks, you know. Ye.All right, guys, look, I

(02:54:13):
can't thank you enough. I knowwe've took a decent amount of time.
I hope you don't get the albumeverybody go get the new Ultra Magnetics Said
G album, Clue Chief Said Galbum with all the various tracks platform Yeah,
black alb suit and look out fora SAIDG solo album, and also

(02:54:35):
want the Clue Chief Rhythmx solo album. So we got more records coming.
We're not gonna, you know,make sure you guys. We're gonna make
sure you guys always have new thingsbecause we ain't stopped making music. We're
not gonna try to. You know, we did a lot of stuff for
the legacy, and you know,we love it, and we just don't
want to live off the legacy,whereas other people they can't seem get away

(02:55:00):
from their old records, you know, the sad G in the building,
and you're to track it out.Take it personal, take it personal.
No, it's just business. Okay, I say they'll say I get out
the woods. He okay, bybye, all right, by alright.

(02:55:24):
Say it's black Pressley el so blackPressley, No one fetter me Elvis,
no black Pressley, no one fetedme, no black press lea noe feted
me, No, no Black pressLeague knowing fretted me. Lay on tracks

(02:55:50):
as a delicacy. Let me,say I do it elegantly. Your girls
somewhere with the NFL car Deezel whenthe simper biddy tending the windows. Okay,
you're a pop star. You don'tremember me. Last week she was
riding with the Saint Louis Cardinals likea tenth speed. Make a drink of
milk, shake before she breasts.Feed command the doggy style, tax free
woman of coach, and no needto get expensive with me. The New

(02:56:13):
York Giants took you as far asaround the whole city. The Jets made
you look pretty. The Los AngelesRams made you twork for a buck fifty.
It's the Panthers on your phone whenyou answer. Watch the Falcon's romancer
into a private dancer. For years, he loved the Buccaneers Milwaukee Bucks.
Sole in your ears, bring yourbelt, the opening raiders ahead. The

(02:56:33):
Jacksonville Jack was what you wore yourgear. The Packets flew you in Liz
the Eagles and do you to mypeople? The Indianapolis Coach say you seek
through the Chicago Bears and Victoria's secretswant to see you. And the Jacksonville
Jack was want to buy you anew car. The Bengals let you sit
in VIP, bring on your girlfriendsby the bar, the Broncos Love Female

(02:56:54):
rep Star Black prest Live. Ican't thank you another. I don't think
you realized that this was almost threehours of I mean we've we've spoke to
cares one for about two and ahalf hours. I think red Man was
about two and a half hours.But you guys may now have the record.
Yeah, you got to read thelongest in Well, you guys got

(02:57:15):
the new album and y'all got allthe discography and definitely enlighten those people out.
Then we go and have more recordsand hopefully you guys don't have to
stop with some of the artists thatyou have that will not ever complete another
album again. How do ya feelabout the fiftieth anniversary and not seeing Ultramate

(02:57:37):
ne MCS not included? So Imyself didn't even check it out because I
saw who was included who wasn't,and I kind of didn't have an interest.
I think, yeah, same,I think I think if you break
it all down, whether it wasthe Angie Martinez thing, whether it was
the BET Awards, whether it wasyou know, just the overall generalization,

(02:58:00):
I think what they're doing is agood thing, but I think that they
could package it in a way whereeverybody's involved, even if it's just you
know, I just and I justthink that they just don't know how to
do that in the time restraints thatare TV. So what I do believe
someone should do is a proper documentarythat takes you from point A to Z

(02:58:22):
and allows everybody to be celebrated becausethere are just so many lanes that all
are just I don't want to sayforgotten you. If you're going to document
the whole thing, it really needsto be taken from the perspective of the
whole genre. And I just feelright, I just feel like sometimes it
gets skewed and put into different,you know, categories, and I just

(02:58:43):
think it's it's like the host becomeswho it's all about, or yeah,
and this and this is and thisis the problem. This is the this
is the problem for me, becausethey have they have the Yankee Stadium thing
going all right, and Keith andCedric they went to school here, it
was born here, got famous here, and nobody realizes that the group Ultra

(02:59:05):
mcnetigan sees is from the Bronx andthey're not on this Bill, It's just
it's but you show what Sharon.I think that if you've reached out to
the Yankees themselves and talked about howthey've made records about all the famous Yankee
teams from back in the day,they can go out there and actually be
a part of a game where they'recelebrated as being Bronx natives, and I

(02:59:28):
think that actually means more, youknow what I'm saying. So, yeah,
I sound good. I think ifyou just try to take it from
you open a different door, youknow, the gods will be celebrated in
the right way. Yeah, that'sright. Yeah, I like that opinion
too. So I'm like danon Rodgersrelaxed. Shit takes care of itself.

(02:59:50):
I went to a game last month, and I'm telling you, I think
from the vibe that I felt,if that was part of the pregame festivities,
it would be very well received.Yeah. I think when our age
group becomes the ones that are inpower making the decisions for TV and film,

(03:00:11):
I think we're there almost the fiftysomethings, and I think, but
it's still run by the umbrella ofthe older generation, and they obviously don't
give a shit it's really about whocan draw the crowd. So yeah,
it's about money. Yeah, it'sall about money, the money grab.
Could you also let the audience knowthat they have a video out from the

(03:00:33):
album. It's called Delta five.Yo, check out Ultra Magnetic, said
g Who Keith in that Delta fivevideo? All Right, thank you?
Say I get out the woods?Okay, bye bye night. All right,

(03:01:07):
wrapping it up, that is theUltra Magnetic Experience, Part one.
I can't wait to listen to thisepisode because it will be the first time
that I've ever listened to the albumthat was coming and any interviews should be
entertaining, and I wasn't part ofit, so it's gonna be a whole

(03:01:30):
brand new experience for me. I'mlooking forward to it. keV, just
remember this. I mean, Ultrawas the type of group, or let's
just say cool Keith in general.He's the type of guy that changed a
lot of things in the game.Think of how big Dan the Automator was,
Well, Cool Keith was really abig part of that. We kind
of break that down in the interview. And so Cool Keith was the guy
who liked to like bring in theseskits and these like you know things from

(03:01:54):
television, you know, these afterschool special snippets, and that's kind of
what Dan They automator became synonymous witheven Prince Paul to some extent, So
you have to give it to coolKeith. He was definitely understanding the sequencing
and structuring of these records where youkind of got into the story. It
almost had like an edd and flow. So they were doing shit, not

(03:02:16):
just having good music. I mean, he was just a part of this
this nuanced album, you know whatI mean. One of the most impressive
songs on the album is one twoone two. When you listen to keys
flow the way that the way thathe does that, you know, no
one, no one's doing that.That that was totally catching a vibe and
creating a pattern that nobody did,and that was different from the flow that

(03:02:39):
was going on at the time.So complete innovator, very very original type
cat and that's it was just funto watch all of his arts, you
know, it's like even the BlackElvis stuff. I mean, he was
he really had a pop appeal tohis underground like you know, mannerisms.
Ultra Magnetic Emacs were the original undergroundgroup of hip hop. I will tell

(03:03:03):
you this, there is no undergroundquote unquote hip hop without the ultramagnetic himps.
They are the reason you have labelslike ruckets. They are the reason
why there was a whole independent movement. Cool Keith dropped an album in eighty
eight, Okay, which was abonafi class of critical beatdown right, but
it sounded nothing like anything else before. Right then they came out with Pop,

(03:03:28):
a large fall on that. Thenthey dropped This in ninety three,
and then he put out Doctor Opticaagain, music that was way ahead of
its time. He was like theultimate warrior of hip hop, just like
oh oh once in a generational kindof a dude, crazy energy. No
one was like him, and thatis why people gravitate towards the ultra magnetics.

(03:03:50):
They're just different. And that iswhy people in especially in Europe and
in Japan love this guy lovel.That's why all those groups, whether it's
Radiohead, whether Prodigy, whether it'sPorta's Head, they love ultra. This
is a living doom, do youunderstand, Like you know, Doom Doom

(03:04:11):
went in infamy, but like thisguy's still around. I feel like dudes
like riff Raff or trying to becool Keith, but you know what,
slightly different but the same idea.He's trying to do cool Keith. But
I think I think cool Keith ismore I don't. I say, I
think he's more authentic in the wayhe is, Like what you see is

(03:04:33):
what you get with Keith, whereI think a lot of the other guys
are very sticky. You know,Riff Raff is a smart businessman. I
don't think if you have a conversationwith him, by the way, I
think different and different guy. He'sa different dude. But nonetheless, I
think that's that's kind of an act. You know. Yeah, we've spoken
with the MC searching three times.He doesn't sound like anything like he does

(03:04:56):
on his Instagram live videos. Youknow, on the phone, he sounds
like you know, you know,the Rabbi Michael, what's his name,
Rabbi? He's going to sell yousome life insurance. Very cool, calm
collective, doesn't have any affective voice, just very different. So, you
know, Keith is key. Youknow, whether you see him in a

(03:05:18):
bodega, whether you see him ina radio station, you see him in
console. Do you see him youknow with some hooker and uh, you
know Sunset Boulevard or whatever. That'skey. Company Flow exists because of Vulture
Magnetic. You are absolutely right,and not just Company Flow, but all
the High and Mighty. All thosegroups study the blueprint that Cool Key provided

(03:05:41):
for them. Hey, at leastHigh a Mighty had him on a record
which I love, which yeah,I mean so Like I said, that
whole indie era is spawned by Andhere's the thought. If you haven't heard
in a while, and it's maddlas part of the eighty eight Holy Grail
year, if you haven't heard CriticalBeatdown in a while, put that shit

(03:06:03):
in and listen to it. Man, it sounds really good still today.
It's not one of those ones thatyou're like, oh, man, that
does not sound good. Critical Beatdownsounds great today. Put it in tomorrow
and check it out. You willthank me later. Can't wait? Can't
wait? Hey, thanks for tuninginto another great episode on Take It Personal.

(03:06:30):
Next up is our Ultra Magnetic mcIS tribute. We also have a
great Cool Keith action figure giveaway comingup on the next episode. Often imitated,
ever duplicated, this is Take aPersonal Radio. You know, sir se

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