November 16, 2021 • 32 mins
Sam Rapoport continues her conversation with Roger Goodell, revealing a side of the commissioner that only his family gets to see. They play “Would You Rather,” talk about the meaning behind the items on display in his office, and share stories about the most impressive people you get to meet as NFL commissioner.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
On this episode of Earning It, I've always had aspirations
to be commissioner of the NFL. Other people in this
building have aspirations to become commissioner of the NFL. Are
we fucking crazy? I continue my conversation with the commissioner.
(00:30):
Hey everyone, I'm Sam Rappaport, back with another episode of
Earning It. In this podcast, I take you on my
journey to build a pipeline. We're bringing talented women into
the NFL and all sorts of jobs previously only held
by men, coaches, scouts, officials and more. Creating the pipeline
(00:53):
isn't easy. I never imagined it would be, but I
have a support team made up of powerful voices and
FL head coaches, owners, gms, and players. The Commissioner was
the first to get on board. I don't think people
saw women in that position, and we had to change
that perception. I always talk about it when people come
(01:14):
into the NFL. How do you create value? Ultimately, that's
what it's about, and there's a lot of values that
people of different genders, different colors, different you know, diversity
is what makes us stronger. Thanks to everyone for spreading
the word about our first episode. We got a ton
of positive feedback about our deep dive with Roger Goodell
(01:35):
on changing the face of football, So this week, as
a bonus, we wanted to share the second half of
that conversation. Time to get personal with the Commission. Full disclosure,
I've known the guy for twenty years and even my
mind was blown a few times we met at his
office in the NFL's headquarters in New York City. It's big.
(01:57):
It's kind of like a giant Principles office overlooking Park Avenue.
Before you even enter the space, you run right into
football history. There's a glass case with championship rings from
every Super Bowl ever played. By the way, it's amazing
how much icier last year's ring is when you compare
(02:17):
it to the very first one. From inside the office,
there are about a dozen different footballs, the Walter Payton
Man of the Year award, and that iconic Sterling Silver
super Bowl Trophy, plus lots of photographs. So, Commission, I'm
looking around this office, and I've been in here quite
(02:39):
a bit, but I had a chance to really go
through your things and one thing stood out to me
this morning that kind of blew my mind about your office.
Very apropos for this podcast is that everything in here
is girls and women. I look around and I see
pictures of your two daughters, pictures of your wife, pictures
of your mom, pictures of female fans everywhere. It actually
kind of dominates your space. What what's what's going on
(03:01):
in this office? I didn't even realize that, to be
honest here, but I am glad to know you went
through my things earlier saying that's the first thing. But
I didn't really realize that, to be honest with you.
I surround myself with things that I care about, things
that people give me that represent a special moment, and
it's part of my experience with the NFL. So it's
(03:23):
sort of everything here has for the most part of meaning.
I'm looking around and I see really cool NFL shield
behind your head, the Lombardi Trophy, the trophy that you
hand to the Super Bowl winning team every year, Walter
Peyton Man of the Year award. Over there is there
something in here that is incredibly meaningful to you that
you can tell us about. Well, all of them have
(03:44):
some meaning to me, either from an NFL standpoint or
from a personal standpoint. I put the NFL shield that
happens to be right over my shoulder here really is
something I had made, actually, and I use that to
remind all the people who come in here, particularly when
we're having staff meetings or meetings with others, and sometimes
with players or coaches, that I talk about what the
(04:06):
NFL really means, and it's called protect the Shield, and
it's to improve the shield. And so when people do
something that tarnish us that shield, I feel like that's
something that commissioner really has to be responsible for. And
so I actually point to that shield an awful lot
to people say that shield represents something great. It helps
(04:28):
lift all of us. It's important for us to improve
the shield, and anyone who detracts from that in some fashion,
whether it's some action or something else that someone's done,
it's not a good thing. So we usually when I'm
pointing at that shield, it's not a good thing. Say
that's when things go down in here, and you have
to point to that shield. Got it. Another question I
(04:49):
have for you, because I I have observed and studied
you throughout your role as commissioner, is with this role,
it is a great privilege and you get to meet
some of the coolest people on the planet. If you
wanted to learn how Apple advances their technology, you could
meet with the CEO of Apple, who's the coolest person
that you've ever met, where when you met them you
(05:11):
were saying, Holy sh it, Wow, that's a hard one.
I meet a lot of our former players and our
current players. I just don't think people understand how cool
these guys are. They're smart there, having incredible perspectives on things.
I learned things from them all the time. They make
great suggestions to me, whether they're current or former players
(05:34):
or even future players by the way, and some of
those guys who when I was a kid idolized them.
So Johnny Unitus was one of those players I love.
When I got a chance to meet him. One of
the coolest things for me and John Mackie, who used
to throw to a lot. We became very close with John,
and still with his widow, Sylvia, who's extraordinary and herself
(05:56):
so to me, that's probably high my list. But I
think the one moment that was really cool for me
was I had the opportunity to go in a USO
tour in about two thousand eight or nine. We went
to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Kabba was a point where we
spent a fair amount of time. It was one of
those experiences where it was actually very scary at that
(06:18):
point in time. And for me when we got to
the headquarters, we walked in and there was General Portrayus,
there was Pete Carre Valley, who's one of the great leaders,
General Odierno, General Austin who's now our Secretary of Defense,
Admiral mcgraven, and all these people that are representing our
country and we were there to try to bring some
(06:41):
i'll cahol it distraction and support for our troops. But
to see them all there and see what they were
doing on under the circumstances, I just was that was
leadership that brought us to his leadership, how he coped
with the pressures of the job. Where do you put
this adversity that you face everyday? Do you have a vice?
How do you deal with it? Well, my wife would
(07:03):
probably go on a long list of vices, but my
biggest vices chocolate. But that's how That's how I get
through a lot of it. But I don't think of
it that way. I look at everything as a challenge
and an opportunity to frankly to prove people wrong ultimately,
because you're always gonna have doubters, You're always gonna have negativity.
(07:25):
I'm really proud of the NFL. I'm proud of the
people work for the NFL on all levels. I'm proud
of what we do. We're not perfect, but we strive
to be perfect and we'll always do that. And so
I just look at it as another opportunity to go
out there and do better. It doesn't phaze me. And
I asked you off the record, but I'm gonna blow
up your spot if you ever get nervous, right, I
(07:47):
get nervous before I go out on stage at the
Women's Forum or for this podcast. And you had a
really interesting answer, So would you mind sharing it? Do
you ever get nervous? I don't. I don't really think
of it that way. I actually, you know, maybe the
time where I'm a little more uncomfortable, And I think
I'm a big person on saying you should learn how
to be uncomfortable, because that's the best place to learn.
(08:09):
You know, maybe you're a little less comfortable. But you know,
when I'm doing a press commerce, I don't think it
of his nerves. I look at as an opportunity to
go out and be able to tell our story and
tell who we are, knowing that you're not the one
who's going to have the final pen at the end
of the day. But that's not a that to me
(08:30):
doesn't concern me at all. Um. I maybe get butterflies
like I do before a game, but that's more excitement
than his nerves. It's a determination. You just have to
have that determination, and you have to be relentless, quite honestly,
in this job. And I like to say I have
read hair for a reason. That's I think that those
are two traits that come a little bit with red hair,
(08:51):
and certainly from my upbringing, I just always felt like
you have to strive to achieve and that's not always
gonna be easy. I always say. Roger is the middle
of five boys. The middle of five boys in seven years.
He was born with very red hair. It's gotten a
little bit quieter over the years. Jane is a veteran journalist,
(09:12):
my producer, and also happens to be married to Roger.
That is all you need to know about. His hair has,
his determination has not, so don't bet against him. He
always has a vision and he is a very determined
human being. I don't like to lose. We know, stepping
(09:33):
away from your role in football for a second, I
interviewed your family for this podcast interview, so I have
an answer for this. If you don't tell the truth, okay,
tell me something about you that would shock NFL fans. Well,
I don't know what NFL fans No. I guess my
family might be better to answer that question, quite honestly,
(09:55):
So I'm gonna throw it to my wife. Please tell
the story you already. Well, I don't know if this
is the one you're thinking of. I think what might
surprise people is that Roger loves to watch TV and
when football is not on, he struggles to find something.
So it's usually one of three movies. Um, it's Gladiator,
(10:20):
remember the Titans are rudy, But the other three usually
are rom coms. He is a huge fan of romantic comedies. Um,
some people call them chick flicks. My daughters don't like
that name. They said it's not appropriate. Rom coms and
he's a big, big fan. He loves like a good
(10:40):
Hugh Grant movie, like Notting Hill. If that's on, tears
are flowing. He's seen it. Probably seventy three times, Tears
Still Flow, loves a Little I don't know, Eddie Murphy,
Atthew Matthew McConaughey, Big Crier. I do quiet movies a lot,
and my girls look at me like they actually turn
around at those moments and go, Daddy's right. So I
(11:01):
guess we got to a good point in the movies.
But you've seen it so many times. That's what I
don't get. You know that, And you've got to get
into the movie, honey, and feel the emotion. You just
got to feel it. And that's where I am. You
put yourself in there. Roger Goodell, serious business. And it's
the same scene every time. I mean, I'm not exaggerating.
(11:24):
How many times have you seen notting Hill doesn't It
was just on like a week ago and he goes,
it's the scene and I was like, I don't need
to see it again. He said, what's so good? It's
at the end in the part. You know where it
really gets me going with movies and sometimes rom coms.
Almost alway said is that moment of triumph when things
(11:44):
go from bad to good. And I just think that's
a good message for people to have. And when I'm
don't have to be working, which is not very often.
I just want to sort of like chill. I want
to just sort of relax. I don't I don't want
to be challenged at that moment. I just wanted a
moment just to sort of maybe recovered. So I'm not
(12:05):
looking for a challenge at that moment. I'm looking to
be entertained and weep. And each time he acts like
he does not know. Rudy Rude a good story, He's
like Rudy again. You got to follow the movie Hunting,
making the tough calls, taking the abuse. Being the commissioner
(12:28):
is not for the faint of heart. Yet all of
us want in. So you should know two things if
you want to be NFL commissioner. First, it will make
(12:50):
you one of the most influential people in sports. Second,
there's a good chance it will make you one of
the least popular. Every decision you make is criticized by
one half of the country, no matter what decision it
is that you make. I've always had aspirations to be
commissioner of the NFL. Other people in this building have
(13:11):
aspirations to become commissioner in the NFL. Are we fucking crazy? Well,
that's a good way to put it. Um no um listen,
I did too. To me, it's one of the greatest
honors and the greatest privileges that you could ever have.
I mean, think about the number of people care about
(13:32):
the National Football League or care about things that we
do every day. And I say that to our fellow
employees and coaches and players, and we have the greatest
platform and the greatest opportunity to influence people around us
with our game and to bring people together in ways
that you can't do in this country. And we saw
(13:55):
that last year through the pandemic. The NFL played every game,
started on time, finished on time, and I think we
made a difference in people's lives, even for a short
period of time on any given day, and really proved
that we can operate through a pandemic, which I know.
I think people needed to have that sense of belief
that the world was going to go on, and I
(14:16):
think the NFL demonstrated that. So to be part of that,
I don't know why you wouldn't want to do it personally,
and I think it's a great opportunity, So I encourage
you to do it. You always have and I think
a lot of people. When I was younger, when a
woman would say, you know, I want to be a commissioner,
there would be that dream chuckle where people would like, oh,
that's that's cute. Right. Since I met you, you've encouraged
(14:38):
me to do it, and it's been something that you've
told me I can do so well. Just may be clear,
when I first said that I wanted to be commissioned,
they chuckled to me too. So there's only been eight
of us in a hundred and two years, and I'm
not done yet. So when you look at that, it
probably deserves a chuckle in some ways. But you use
(15:00):
as your motivation to say, no, I want to be
part of this and I want to make a difference,
and you play your cards and you do what you
can to to do that. I didn't really get into
this to necessarily be the commissioner. I got into this
because I thought the NFL had that power that influenced,
that ability to to make the world a little better
(15:20):
for people. And now we're up to two people. I
think we're doing that and to be part of that
is a pretty cool privilege. Having said that, when we
were moving houses several years ago, we uncovered a box
and it was some papers of Rogers, and he found
a letter he had written to his dad upon his
college graduation, and he said, dear Pop, I want two
(15:43):
things now in life. One is to make you proud,
and the other is to become commissioner of the National
Football League. And you were twenty two years old. So
it was an intention. Yes, I'm not so sure if
it was just a naive college kid in some ways,
but but I really meant it in the context because
I love Peoprozel, who was then the commissioner. I thought
(16:05):
he was extraordinary what he did, and I followed him
very closely, and I wanted to work for him. The
idea that I would actually succeed after Paul Tagobu into
the same position at twenty two years old, I would
it had been pretty foolish, But I had a lot
of people who tried to talk me out of pursuing
this career, and I'm glad they didn't win. But Sam,
(16:27):
this podcast is all about pursuing dreams, and you had
a dream which we're watching become reality. So I think
I hear go for it in that message. Why not, right?
I think you make a great commissioner, So you need
to just determine that this is what you want to
do and do it. I kind of feel pretty powerful
at the front of this table. I'm afraid to turn
(16:51):
around scene. It's objectively a very cool job, but as
we all know, it's not. See the criticism is constant,
and that can be tough on your family. It's an
interesting perspective to be in the role of a spouse
of somebody who's in the public eye. And I have
the additional, i guess viewpoint of having been in the
(17:15):
media for twenty years. So I take it particularly hard
because I know I know what's true and what's not
because I live with him and I watch him work,
and I know what his work ethic is like, his
intentions are like, what his hard is like, and what
his soul is like, and that is not always portrayed
accurately um in the media. And I know how it
works because I've been on the other side. So I
(17:38):
don't want to sound like I'm complaining about being in
this position. Because his job comes with the most incredible
opportunities and experiences, and we get to go all over
the country and meet just the coolest fans and players,
But it is very hard to watch somebody you love
very much and you respect very much portrayed much differently
than they are. So I don't know how else to
(17:58):
say it other than that, well, I would say that
it's probably harder on them that it is on me,
and I include our girls and my brothers. I have
a brother that looks a lot like me that he
was walking down the street and they started screaming on him. So, um,
it is hard on them, and I really do understand that,
and it's it's something that is I think a cost
(18:19):
to them of this job. But I will also say,
just to the point of what Jane was saying, I'm
really comfortable who I am. I don't really worry about
people who don't know me and don't know what we're
dealing with. There are a lot of things that you're
balancing in this and so I would like to say,
if I get through a day where I haven't piste
off too many people, that's a good day. But you're
(18:41):
gonna piss off people, and you're gonna do it, hopefully
in the best interests of the lead and try to
do the right thing. He says a good example is
the NFL's work stoppage in two thousand and eleven when
the owners locked out the players in an epic labor battle.
You really you need to be doing things that are
(19:01):
tough decisions that may not be popular, but they're the
right decisions ultimately long term for the game, and you
have to be prepared to take that. And it was
really though important for us to get the right kind
of agreement that everyone has benefited from, by the way,
including the players and coaches and owners, but also the fans.
(19:23):
And that's not a popular decision. I can remember walking
out for the draft at Radio City. The booze almost
knocked me over. It was you could feel it physically.
Then Welcome to the NFL Draft. And I get it
because that's what the fans are expressing. They want football.
They don't want these disputes. They don't want anything other
(19:44):
than give me football. And sometimes when you have to
make tough decisions, other things get in the way of that,
and that's what we try to avoid. We try to
avoid that kind of thing. So thankfully it doesn't happen
very much and we can keep them focused on football
and it with other matters quietly, which is the best
thing we can do, and sometimes that's not obvious out
(20:06):
of the box. Sometimes it things that may look wrong
initially ultimately end up being right, and the reverse is
true also sometimes. But we live in a society where
it's a it's a very quick reaction and instinctive reaction
to things, and that's fine. I always like to say
we want fans to be passionate and loyal. They are
(20:27):
and that is great. So I fully understand that. Coming up,
it's game time around of would you rather? With the commissioner.
(20:53):
One thing my closest friends know about me is I
love asking would you rather? Questions. Jane Adell seemed up
for the game. The commission though, gave me a look.
I know all too well. We started with an easy one.
I have a would you rather question for you? Would
(21:14):
you rather be the starting quarterback on an Owen sixteen
team or the backup quarterback on a playoff bound team,
starting cornerback on an Owen sixteen team? Because you have
a chance to make a difference and I want to
be part of participating in that. I don't want to watch,
I want to participate. Now, listen, we all have roles
(21:34):
on a football team. As you said, so backups play
an important role, but I want to be out there
mixing it up. I want to be out there trying
to make us better, and I'd rather be part of
the turnaround. We've seen a lot of worse to first also, right,
So it's not out a question and that answer from
him does not surprise me in the least. There was
(21:54):
no question that was going to be his answer. So
I'll make it a little more realistic to close us out.
You know, you said that you were an average football player,
so maybe you wouldn't make the NFL. But I didn't
say I was average. Can somebody go back to average?
You just said you weren't a great running back. I
said it was as good as the other guy. That
didn't mean I was average. For the record, this is
(22:15):
what the commission said during episode one. I probably played
anything they told me to. I mean, I was running
back going into my senior year and they told me
I had to switch the tight end because we had
a great running back who switched over from another school
and he was better running back. Well, that kind of
the other guy was probably pretty good. But Sam played
against you on the high school football field at the
(22:37):
flag football game, so I'm not average. Maybe you're an
average running back. Okay, let's clarify, you're super football player,
topice running back. All Right, we're going into the two
minute drill here, and I have some rapid fire questions
that I'm going to ask Jane and Roger things again
that I've always wanted to know. Jane, I'm gonna start
with you, do we get a pass? If we have
(22:58):
something you can pass? After one pass you could pass.
This knew we wed game, but I'm really actually excited
to hear years what you said. What you say about
each other here would be kind of interesting. Roger, most
romantic thing that you've ever done for Jane? No, that
would be more appropriate for her to answer whether it
(23:20):
was romantic. I made like rom coms. I'd probably not
the best at romance, but I guess i'd probably go
back and say I chased Jane real hard for a
long time, and I was thirty seven at the time.
I think we met thirty eight when we got married.
It took a long time to get her attention, and
I wasn't real good at that, but I'm glad I
(23:42):
did well. I My answer is the most romantic thing
you ever did. Was surprised me. You left the girls
with my mom and took me to the Monday night
there Packer game in late December and it was zero
wind chill. We sat in the stands together, nobody recognized you,
(24:05):
and the beer was freezing, and somehow you finagled it
that the Bears won in overtime to I'm kidding that.
He had nothing to do with that, for the record,
but the Bears did win in overtime when we were freezing,
and it was like just the two of us and
it was awesome. Remember that. But I'm going to put
it in the romantic category. So that's good. If I
can get an NFL game in romance in one shot, right,
(24:27):
I think that's romantic as health it was. It was,
it was offical, and I can remember we sat there
all the way through that overtime and it was a
great experience. It was fun. I grew up in Chicago,
so Soldier Field is one of my favorite places on Earth,
and it was by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, Roger,
(24:47):
don't lie. Have you ever practiced sing with the first
pick in the NFL draft in front of a mirror?
I have not. I'm not lying. I will tell you that.
I do say repeatedly, not in front of a mirror.
That's the key. So I always try to make sure
I get the year right, and I worry about that sometimes,
(25:09):
is that I'm going to go to the wrong year
or something because you're doing it so many times, like
where you just have to get I'm so used to it.
So if you ask me now, I might say NFL Draft.
With the first pick in the NFL Draft, the Jacksonville
Jaguars select Trevor Lawrence quarterback Clipson. The New York Jets
(25:33):
select Zack Wilson quarterback b Y. You Nick, ye all
have to you know, the first couple of days before
I just sort of I just remind myself it'll be
twenty two. But I do. I will admit this. Also.
I do practice names a lot because I do not
want to screw that up. I think that's the moment
(25:54):
for this young man and his family, and I don't
want to be part of getting that name rks. Oh.
We do practice that. We have actually people who I
sit down within advance and write it out phonetically and
I'm usually pretty good at it. Amazing, your name represents you,
and certainly on the biggest day, one of the biggest
days of your life. You want to said correctly? All right,
two final questions directed at both of you. You know
(26:17):
you have twin daughters. One is a die hard Vikings
fan and one is a die hard Seahawks fan. And
I heard that two games of the year, your daughters
get to choose where you go. You sit in the stands,
the four of you watch the Vikings Seahawks. So Viking
Seahawks in the NFC Championship. Who are you both rooting
for taking a favorite child? Right? It almost happened. It
(26:41):
was a playoff game back in It was either fifteen
or sixteen seed. I think it was fifteen and they
were playing at the University of Minnesota Seahawks at UM
and I think it was a wild card game, and
we were there, we were outside the whole game, and
then we got in the car thinking and it was
a low scoring game, and I think it was. I
think it was ten nine somewhere in that in the
(27:03):
Vikings had a chance to win it with a field
goal to end, it would have gone I think twelve ten.
It was my recollection, and I think it was a
twenty seven yard field goal twenty seven yard of ten.
Jeff Lott is the holder Mcgermott is the snapper god
and he missed it. Wow. Go figure. So when we
(27:38):
got in the car, Jane and both of my girls
were there are girls, and they missed a kick, and
one daughter obviously was terribly sad and the other one
was overjoyed. But neither one of them really showed it
to one another, even though you knew they were doing it.
But I think that was sort of the love and
respect they have for one another. But that was a
tough moment. I did know how we were going to
(28:00):
manage that, but I'm always amazed at the way our
girls are so emotionally tied to this game. Last question
for you both. Roger, I know you're not a huge
music guy, but I'm interested in this question for both
of you. If you both were drafted by the NFL,
what would be your walkout song? I would be drafted
by like the baking Challenge. There's and I have no
(28:23):
athletic abilities that I would ever be drafted for a sport,
but it was this all make believe. I would say
I would be just running across the stage to get
the hug from the commissioner. So it's very good. That's
a red answer. But if I had to fake a song,
I would go uh Rihanna kaleed like, I'd have a
(28:43):
DJ mashup of Rihanna and called song for me. I'd
like kind of like saunter out and then I grabbed
the hug. I wouldn't do the bro hug that I'd
go in for like as sad as I am. I
don't do they play a song when you walk out
on the draft? I'm not. I'm not sure I'm aware
of it. Some years we've allowed the players that you
was what song they come out to? You're just waiting
for those big hugs to know if you're gonna get
(29:04):
picked up or not. And sometimes these players pick them
up on the air like two ft in the air, yes,
or land them maybe either one. But I couldn't even
pick out a song because I'm really bad at name
that tune and I'm really bad at naming things that
are my favorites because at that moment it just doesn't
strike me. And I have a pretty I would say
a broad range of likes in music and other things eclectic.
(29:29):
It's an eclectic music chase it's eclectic. It's so eclectic
that Jane usually pushes the button to move onto the
next song. NFL jobs are hard work on and off
the field, full of often unexpected challenges. We don't shy
away from those challenges and discuss them head on in
(29:49):
upcoming episodes. I gotta be honest, though I feel like
I'm where I'm supposed to be making change. There is
a reason why we are such a successful football league.
And I know you're going to say that's not you
or you're not the only reason, but we all know
that there's a reason why the bar is set so
high at this office and why we are all charged
(30:10):
with operating on a level that allows the league to
be the best board in the world. At the end
of the day, it's the great players and coaches on
the field and what they do. It's ownership who looks
long term. It's our employees who bus their butts in
extraordinary times and deliver unbelievable results. And the fans who
(30:31):
love this game and so for us, that makes the difference.
And in your specific case, where you are taking something
from the ground up, creating something really special that ultimately
is going to bring even more talented people into our
league and uh, I think going to change the face
of the NFL or the rest of our history. That
(30:54):
to me is pretty powerful, and you've led the way
this season on earning it. We meet the people in
the bunker with Sam making change, head, coaches, owners, and
of course the women themselves. I just wanted to get better.
I wanted the d lines that I was in charge
(31:14):
of to be absolutely obnoxious and feared and hated across
any league that I coached. You're bringing more vantage points
to the table. You're bringing more perspective to the table,
and with that comes value. I think every business should
have that model of getting the biggest number of voices
and different ideas to have your business model off of,
(31:37):
rather than everyone looks like everyone thinks of. Like he said,
you're gonna knail him again whenever you work Super Bowl
in Tampa. I had to pull over on side the road.
You know, I'm to make sure I didn't lose sal
service and that I wasn't hearing something that wasn't true
and just know him and he said, you've earned it.
Sam Report, He's like the godfather of women in football.
(31:57):
None of us would be here without Sam effort I
Owe her Everything. Be sure to watch for Earning It,
the five part TV series from NBC and NFL Films,
coming to NBC and Peacock in January
On this episode of Earning It, I've always had aspirations
to be commissioner of the NFL. Other people in this
building have aspirations to become commissioner of the NFL. Are
we fucking crazy? I continue my conversation with the commissioner.
(00:30):
Hey everyone, I'm Sam Rappaport, back with another episode of
Earning It. In this podcast, I take you on my
journey to build a pipeline. We're bringing talented women into
the NFL and all sorts of jobs previously only held
by men, coaches, scouts, officials and more. Creating the pipeline
(00:53):
isn't easy. I never imagined it would be, but I
have a support team made up of powerful voices and
FL head coaches, owners, gms, and players. The Commissioner was
the first to get on board. I don't think people
saw women in that position, and we had to change
that perception. I always talk about it when people come
(01:14):
into the NFL. How do you create value? Ultimately, that's
what it's about, and there's a lot of values that
people of different genders, different colors, different you know, diversity
is what makes us stronger. Thanks to everyone for spreading
the word about our first episode. We got a ton
of positive feedback about our deep dive with Roger Goodell
(01:35):
on changing the face of football, So this week, as
a bonus, we wanted to share the second half of
that conversation. Time to get personal with the Commission. Full disclosure,
I've known the guy for twenty years and even my
mind was blown a few times we met at his
office in the NFL's headquarters in New York City. It's big.
(01:57):
It's kind of like a giant Principles office overlooking Park Avenue.
Before you even enter the space, you run right into
football history. There's a glass case with championship rings from
every Super Bowl ever played. By the way, it's amazing
how much icier last year's ring is when you compare
(02:17):
it to the very first one. From inside the office,
there are about a dozen different footballs, the Walter Payton
Man of the Year award, and that iconic Sterling Silver
super Bowl Trophy, plus lots of photographs. So, Commission, I'm
looking around this office, and I've been in here quite
(02:39):
a bit, but I had a chance to really go
through your things and one thing stood out to me
this morning that kind of blew my mind about your office.
Very apropos for this podcast is that everything in here
is girls and women. I look around and I see
pictures of your two daughters, pictures of your wife, pictures
of your mom, pictures of female fans everywhere. It actually
kind of dominates your space. What what's what's going on
(03:01):
in this office? I didn't even realize that, to be
honest here, but I am glad to know you went
through my things earlier saying that's the first thing. But
I didn't really realize that, to be honest with you.
I surround myself with things that I care about, things
that people give me that represent a special moment, and
it's part of my experience with the NFL. So it's
(03:23):
sort of everything here has for the most part of meaning.
I'm looking around and I see really cool NFL shield
behind your head, the Lombardi Trophy, the trophy that you
hand to the Super Bowl winning team every year, Walter
Peyton Man of the Year award. Over there is there
something in here that is incredibly meaningful to you that
you can tell us about. Well, all of them have
(03:44):
some meaning to me, either from an NFL standpoint or
from a personal standpoint. I put the NFL shield that
happens to be right over my shoulder here really is
something I had made, actually, and I use that to
remind all the people who come in here, particularly when
we're having staff meetings or meetings with others, and sometimes
with players or coaches, that I talk about what the
(04:06):
NFL really means, and it's called protect the Shield, and
it's to improve the shield. And so when people do
something that tarnish us that shield, I feel like that's
something that commissioner really has to be responsible for. And
so I actually point to that shield an awful lot
to people say that shield represents something great. It helps
(04:28):
lift all of us. It's important for us to improve
the shield, and anyone who detracts from that in some fashion,
whether it's some action or something else that someone's done,
it's not a good thing. So we usually when I'm
pointing at that shield, it's not a good thing. Say
that's when things go down in here, and you have
to point to that shield. Got it. Another question I
(04:49):
have for you, because I I have observed and studied
you throughout your role as commissioner, is with this role,
it is a great privilege and you get to meet
some of the coolest people on the planet. If you
wanted to learn how Apple advances their technology, you could
meet with the CEO of Apple, who's the coolest person
that you've ever met, where when you met them you
(05:11):
were saying, Holy sh it, Wow, that's a hard one.
I meet a lot of our former players and our
current players. I just don't think people understand how cool
these guys are. They're smart there, having incredible perspectives on things.
I learned things from them all the time. They make
great suggestions to me, whether they're current or former players
(05:34):
or even future players by the way, and some of
those guys who when I was a kid idolized them.
So Johnny Unitus was one of those players I love.
When I got a chance to meet him. One of
the coolest things for me and John Mackie, who used
to throw to a lot. We became very close with John,
and still with his widow, Sylvia, who's extraordinary and herself
(05:56):
so to me, that's probably high my list. But I
think the one moment that was really cool for me
was I had the opportunity to go in a USO
tour in about two thousand eight or nine. We went
to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Kabba was a point where we
spent a fair amount of time. It was one of
those experiences where it was actually very scary at that
(06:18):
point in time. And for me when we got to
the headquarters, we walked in and there was General Portrayus,
there was Pete Carre Valley, who's one of the great leaders,
General Odierno, General Austin who's now our Secretary of Defense,
Admiral mcgraven, and all these people that are representing our
country and we were there to try to bring some
(06:41):
i'll cahol it distraction and support for our troops. But
to see them all there and see what they were
doing on under the circumstances, I just was that was
leadership that brought us to his leadership, how he coped
with the pressures of the job. Where do you put
this adversity that you face everyday? Do you have a vice?
How do you deal with it? Well, my wife would
(07:03):
probably go on a long list of vices, but my
biggest vices chocolate. But that's how That's how I get
through a lot of it. But I don't think of
it that way. I look at everything as a challenge
and an opportunity to frankly to prove people wrong ultimately,
because you're always gonna have doubters, You're always gonna have negativity.
(07:25):
I'm really proud of the NFL. I'm proud of the
people work for the NFL on all levels. I'm proud
of what we do. We're not perfect, but we strive
to be perfect and we'll always do that. And so
I just look at it as another opportunity to go
out there and do better. It doesn't phaze me. And
I asked you off the record, but I'm gonna blow
up your spot if you ever get nervous, right, I
(07:47):
get nervous before I go out on stage at the
Women's Forum or for this podcast. And you had a
really interesting answer, So would you mind sharing it? Do
you ever get nervous? I don't. I don't really think
of it that way. I actually, you know, maybe the
time where I'm a little more uncomfortable, And I think
I'm a big person on saying you should learn how
to be uncomfortable, because that's the best place to learn.
(08:09):
You know, maybe you're a little less comfortable. But you know,
when I'm doing a press commerce, I don't think it
of his nerves. I look at as an opportunity to
go out and be able to tell our story and
tell who we are, knowing that you're not the one
who's going to have the final pen at the end
of the day. But that's not a that to me
(08:30):
doesn't concern me at all. Um. I maybe get butterflies
like I do before a game, but that's more excitement
than his nerves. It's a determination. You just have to
have that determination, and you have to be relentless, quite honestly,
in this job. And I like to say I have
read hair for a reason. That's I think that those
are two traits that come a little bit with red hair,
(08:51):
and certainly from my upbringing, I just always felt like
you have to strive to achieve and that's not always
gonna be easy. I always say. Roger is the middle
of five boys. The middle of five boys in seven years.
He was born with very red hair. It's gotten a
little bit quieter over the years. Jane is a veteran journalist,
(09:12):
my producer, and also happens to be married to Roger.
That is all you need to know about. His hair has,
his determination has not, so don't bet against him. He
always has a vision and he is a very determined
human being. I don't like to lose. We know, stepping
(09:33):
away from your role in football for a second, I
interviewed your family for this podcast interview, so I have
an answer for this. If you don't tell the truth, okay,
tell me something about you that would shock NFL fans. Well,
I don't know what NFL fans No. I guess my
family might be better to answer that question, quite honestly,
(09:55):
So I'm gonna throw it to my wife. Please tell
the story you already. Well, I don't know if this
is the one you're thinking of. I think what might
surprise people is that Roger loves to watch TV and
when football is not on, he struggles to find something.
So it's usually one of three movies. Um, it's Gladiator,
(10:20):
remember the Titans are rudy, But the other three usually
are rom coms. He is a huge fan of romantic comedies. Um,
some people call them chick flicks. My daughters don't like
that name. They said it's not appropriate. Rom coms and
he's a big, big fan. He loves like a good
(10:40):
Hugh Grant movie, like Notting Hill. If that's on, tears
are flowing. He's seen it. Probably seventy three times, Tears
Still Flow, loves a Little I don't know, Eddie Murphy,
Atthew Matthew McConaughey, Big Crier. I do quiet movies a lot,
and my girls look at me like they actually turn
around at those moments and go, Daddy's right. So I
(11:01):
guess we got to a good point in the movies.
But you've seen it so many times. That's what I
don't get. You know that, And you've got to get
into the movie, honey, and feel the emotion. You just
got to feel it. And that's where I am. You
put yourself in there. Roger Goodell, serious business. And it's
the same scene every time. I mean, I'm not exaggerating.
(11:24):
How many times have you seen notting Hill doesn't It
was just on like a week ago and he goes,
it's the scene and I was like, I don't need
to see it again. He said, what's so good? It's
at the end in the part. You know where it
really gets me going with movies and sometimes rom coms.
Almost alway said is that moment of triumph when things
(11:44):
go from bad to good. And I just think that's
a good message for people to have. And when I'm
don't have to be working, which is not very often.
I just want to sort of like chill. I want
to just sort of relax. I don't I don't want
to be challenged at that moment. I just wanted a
moment just to sort of maybe recovered. So I'm not
(12:05):
looking for a challenge at that moment. I'm looking to
be entertained and weep. And each time he acts like
he does not know. Rudy Rude a good story, He's
like Rudy again. You got to follow the movie Hunting,
making the tough calls, taking the abuse. Being the commissioner
(12:28):
is not for the faint of heart. Yet all of
us want in. So you should know two things if
you want to be NFL commissioner. First, it will make
(12:50):
you one of the most influential people in sports. Second,
there's a good chance it will make you one of
the least popular. Every decision you make is criticized by
one half of the country, no matter what decision it
is that you make. I've always had aspirations to be
commissioner of the NFL. Other people in this building have
(13:11):
aspirations to become commissioner in the NFL. Are we fucking crazy? Well,
that's a good way to put it. Um no um listen,
I did too. To me, it's one of the greatest
honors and the greatest privileges that you could ever have.
I mean, think about the number of people care about
(13:32):
the National Football League or care about things that we
do every day. And I say that to our fellow
employees and coaches and players, and we have the greatest
platform and the greatest opportunity to influence people around us
with our game and to bring people together in ways
that you can't do in this country. And we saw
(13:55):
that last year through the pandemic. The NFL played every game,
started on time, finished on time, and I think we
made a difference in people's lives, even for a short
period of time on any given day, and really proved
that we can operate through a pandemic, which I know.
I think people needed to have that sense of belief
that the world was going to go on, and I
(14:16):
think the NFL demonstrated that. So to be part of that,
I don't know why you wouldn't want to do it personally,
and I think it's a great opportunity, So I encourage
you to do it. You always have and I think
a lot of people. When I was younger, when a
woman would say, you know, I want to be a commissioner,
there would be that dream chuckle where people would like, oh,
that's that's cute. Right. Since I met you, you've encouraged
(14:38):
me to do it, and it's been something that you've
told me I can do so well. Just may be clear,
when I first said that I wanted to be commissioned,
they chuckled to me too. So there's only been eight
of us in a hundred and two years, and I'm
not done yet. So when you look at that, it
probably deserves a chuckle in some ways. But you use
(15:00):
as your motivation to say, no, I want to be
part of this and I want to make a difference,
and you play your cards and you do what you
can to to do that. I didn't really get into
this to necessarily be the commissioner. I got into this
because I thought the NFL had that power that influenced,
that ability to to make the world a little better
(15:20):
for people. And now we're up to two people. I
think we're doing that and to be part of that
is a pretty cool privilege. Having said that, when we
were moving houses several years ago, we uncovered a box
and it was some papers of Rogers, and he found
a letter he had written to his dad upon his
college graduation, and he said, dear Pop, I want two
(15:43):
things now in life. One is to make you proud,
and the other is to become commissioner of the National
Football League. And you were twenty two years old. So
it was an intention. Yes, I'm not so sure if
it was just a naive college kid in some ways,
but but I really meant it in the context because
I love Peoprozel, who was then the commissioner. I thought
(16:05):
he was extraordinary what he did, and I followed him
very closely, and I wanted to work for him. The
idea that I would actually succeed after Paul Tagobu into
the same position at twenty two years old, I would
it had been pretty foolish, But I had a lot
of people who tried to talk me out of pursuing
this career, and I'm glad they didn't win. But Sam,
(16:27):
this podcast is all about pursuing dreams, and you had
a dream which we're watching become reality. So I think
I hear go for it in that message. Why not, right?
I think you make a great commissioner, So you need
to just determine that this is what you want to
do and do it. I kind of feel pretty powerful
at the front of this table. I'm afraid to turn
(16:51):
around scene. It's objectively a very cool job, but as
we all know, it's not. See the criticism is constant,
and that can be tough on your family. It's an
interesting perspective to be in the role of a spouse
of somebody who's in the public eye. And I have
the additional, i guess viewpoint of having been in the
(17:15):
media for twenty years. So I take it particularly hard
because I know I know what's true and what's not
because I live with him and I watch him work,
and I know what his work ethic is like, his
intentions are like, what his hard is like, and what
his soul is like, and that is not always portrayed
accurately um in the media. And I know how it
works because I've been on the other side. So I
(17:38):
don't want to sound like I'm complaining about being in
this position. Because his job comes with the most incredible
opportunities and experiences, and we get to go all over
the country and meet just the coolest fans and players,
But it is very hard to watch somebody you love
very much and you respect very much portrayed much differently
than they are. So I don't know how else to
(17:58):
say it other than that, well, I would say that
it's probably harder on them that it is on me,
and I include our girls and my brothers. I have
a brother that looks a lot like me that he
was walking down the street and they started screaming on him. So, um,
it is hard on them, and I really do understand that,
and it's it's something that is I think a cost
(18:19):
to them of this job. But I will also say,
just to the point of what Jane was saying, I'm
really comfortable who I am. I don't really worry about
people who don't know me and don't know what we're
dealing with. There are a lot of things that you're
balancing in this and so I would like to say,
if I get through a day where I haven't piste
off too many people, that's a good day. But you're
(18:41):
gonna piss off people, and you're gonna do it, hopefully
in the best interests of the lead and try to
do the right thing. He says a good example is
the NFL's work stoppage in two thousand and eleven when
the owners locked out the players in an epic labor battle.
You really you need to be doing things that are
(19:01):
tough decisions that may not be popular, but they're the
right decisions ultimately long term for the game, and you
have to be prepared to take that. And it was
really though important for us to get the right kind
of agreement that everyone has benefited from, by the way,
including the players and coaches and owners, but also the fans.
(19:23):
And that's not a popular decision. I can remember walking
out for the draft at Radio City. The booze almost
knocked me over. It was you could feel it physically.
Then Welcome to the NFL Draft. And I get it
because that's what the fans are expressing. They want football.
They don't want these disputes. They don't want anything other
(19:44):
than give me football. And sometimes when you have to
make tough decisions, other things get in the way of that,
and that's what we try to avoid. We try to
avoid that kind of thing. So thankfully it doesn't happen
very much and we can keep them focused on football
and it with other matters quietly, which is the best
thing we can do, and sometimes that's not obvious out
(20:06):
of the box. Sometimes it things that may look wrong
initially ultimately end up being right, and the reverse is
true also sometimes. But we live in a society where
it's a it's a very quick reaction and instinctive reaction
to things, and that's fine. I always like to say
we want fans to be passionate and loyal. They are
(20:27):
and that is great. So I fully understand that. Coming up,
it's game time around of would you rather? With the commissioner.
(20:53):
One thing my closest friends know about me is I
love asking would you rather? Questions. Jane Adell seemed up
for the game. The commission though, gave me a look.
I know all too well. We started with an easy one.
I have a would you rather question for you? Would
(21:14):
you rather be the starting quarterback on an Owen sixteen
team or the backup quarterback on a playoff bound team,
starting cornerback on an Owen sixteen team? Because you have
a chance to make a difference and I want to
be part of participating in that. I don't want to watch,
I want to participate. Now, listen, we all have roles
(21:34):
on a football team. As you said, so backups play
an important role, but I want to be out there
mixing it up. I want to be out there trying
to make us better, and I'd rather be part of
the turnaround. We've seen a lot of worse to first also, right,
So it's not out a question and that answer from
him does not surprise me in the least. There was
(21:54):
no question that was going to be his answer. So
I'll make it a little more realistic to close us out.
You know, you said that you were an average football player,
so maybe you wouldn't make the NFL. But I didn't
say I was average. Can somebody go back to average?
You just said you weren't a great running back. I
said it was as good as the other guy. That
didn't mean I was average. For the record, this is
(22:15):
what the commission said during episode one. I probably played
anything they told me to. I mean, I was running
back going into my senior year and they told me
I had to switch the tight end because we had
a great running back who switched over from another school
and he was better running back. Well, that kind of
the other guy was probably pretty good. But Sam played
against you on the high school football field at the
(22:37):
flag football game, so I'm not average. Maybe you're an
average running back. Okay, let's clarify, you're super football player,
topice running back. All Right, we're going into the two
minute drill here, and I have some rapid fire questions
that I'm going to ask Jane and Roger things again
that I've always wanted to know. Jane, I'm gonna start
with you, do we get a pass? If we have
(22:58):
something you can pass? After one pass you could pass.
This knew we wed game, but I'm really actually excited
to hear years what you said. What you say about
each other here would be kind of interesting. Roger, most
romantic thing that you've ever done for Jane? No, that
would be more appropriate for her to answer whether it
(23:20):
was romantic. I made like rom coms. I'd probably not
the best at romance, but I guess i'd probably go
back and say I chased Jane real hard for a
long time, and I was thirty seven at the time.
I think we met thirty eight when we got married.
It took a long time to get her attention, and
I wasn't real good at that, but I'm glad I
(23:42):
did well. I My answer is the most romantic thing
you ever did. Was surprised me. You left the girls
with my mom and took me to the Monday night
there Packer game in late December and it was zero
wind chill. We sat in the stands together, nobody recognized you,
(24:05):
and the beer was freezing, and somehow you finagled it
that the Bears won in overtime to I'm kidding that.
He had nothing to do with that, for the record,
but the Bears did win in overtime when we were freezing,
and it was like just the two of us and
it was awesome. Remember that. But I'm going to put
it in the romantic category. So that's good. If I
can get an NFL game in romance in one shot, right,
(24:27):
I think that's romantic as health it was. It was,
it was offical, and I can remember we sat there
all the way through that overtime and it was a
great experience. It was fun. I grew up in Chicago,
so Soldier Field is one of my favorite places on Earth,
and it was by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, Roger,
(24:47):
don't lie. Have you ever practiced sing with the first
pick in the NFL draft in front of a mirror?
I have not. I'm not lying. I will tell you that.
I do say repeatedly, not in front of a mirror.
That's the key. So I always try to make sure
I get the year right, and I worry about that sometimes,
(25:09):
is that I'm going to go to the wrong year
or something because you're doing it so many times, like
where you just have to get I'm so used to it.
So if you ask me now, I might say NFL Draft.
With the first pick in the NFL Draft, the Jacksonville
Jaguars select Trevor Lawrence quarterback Clipson. The New York Jets
(25:33):
select Zack Wilson quarterback b Y. You Nick, ye all
have to you know, the first couple of days before
I just sort of I just remind myself it'll be
twenty two. But I do. I will admit this. Also.
I do practice names a lot because I do not
want to screw that up. I think that's the moment
(25:54):
for this young man and his family, and I don't
want to be part of getting that name rks. Oh.
We do practice that. We have actually people who I
sit down within advance and write it out phonetically and
I'm usually pretty good at it. Amazing, your name represents you,
and certainly on the biggest day, one of the biggest
days of your life. You want to said correctly? All right,
two final questions directed at both of you. You know
(26:17):
you have twin daughters. One is a die hard Vikings
fan and one is a die hard Seahawks fan. And
I heard that two games of the year, your daughters
get to choose where you go. You sit in the stands,
the four of you watch the Vikings Seahawks. So Viking
Seahawks in the NFC Championship. Who are you both rooting
for taking a favorite child? Right? It almost happened. It
(26:41):
was a playoff game back in It was either fifteen
or sixteen seed. I think it was fifteen and they
were playing at the University of Minnesota Seahawks at UM
and I think it was a wild card game, and
we were there, we were outside the whole game, and
then we got in the car thinking and it was
a low scoring game, and I think it was. I
think it was ten nine somewhere in that in the
(27:03):
Vikings had a chance to win it with a field
goal to end, it would have gone I think twelve ten.
It was my recollection, and I think it was a
twenty seven yard field goal twenty seven yard of ten.
Jeff Lott is the holder Mcgermott is the snapper god
and he missed it. Wow. Go figure. So when we
(27:38):
got in the car, Jane and both of my girls
were there are girls, and they missed a kick, and
one daughter obviously was terribly sad and the other one
was overjoyed. But neither one of them really showed it
to one another, even though you knew they were doing it.
But I think that was sort of the love and
respect they have for one another. But that was a
tough moment. I did know how we were going to
(28:00):
manage that, but I'm always amazed at the way our
girls are so emotionally tied to this game. Last question
for you both. Roger, I know you're not a huge
music guy, but I'm interested in this question for both
of you. If you both were drafted by the NFL,
what would be your walkout song? I would be drafted
by like the baking Challenge. There's and I have no
(28:23):
athletic abilities that I would ever be drafted for a sport,
but it was this all make believe. I would say
I would be just running across the stage to get
the hug from the commissioner. So it's very good. That's
a red answer. But if I had to fake a song,
I would go uh Rihanna kaleed like, I'd have a
(28:43):
DJ mashup of Rihanna and called song for me. I'd
like kind of like saunter out and then I grabbed
the hug. I wouldn't do the bro hug that I'd
go in for like as sad as I am. I
don't do they play a song when you walk out
on the draft? I'm not. I'm not sure I'm aware
of it. Some years we've allowed the players that you
was what song they come out to? You're just waiting
for those big hugs to know if you're gonna get
(29:04):
picked up or not. And sometimes these players pick them
up on the air like two ft in the air, yes,
or land them maybe either one. But I couldn't even
pick out a song because I'm really bad at name
that tune and I'm really bad at naming things that
are my favorites because at that moment it just doesn't
strike me. And I have a pretty I would say
a broad range of likes in music and other things eclectic.
(29:29):
It's an eclectic music chase it's eclectic. It's so eclectic
that Jane usually pushes the button to move onto the
next song. NFL jobs are hard work on and off
the field, full of often unexpected challenges. We don't shy
away from those challenges and discuss them head on in
(29:49):
upcoming episodes. I gotta be honest, though I feel like
I'm where I'm supposed to be making change. There is
a reason why we are such a successful football league.
And I know you're going to say that's not you
or you're not the only reason, but we all know
that there's a reason why the bar is set so
high at this office and why we are all charged
(30:10):
with operating on a level that allows the league to
be the best board in the world. At the end
of the day, it's the great players and coaches on
the field and what they do. It's ownership who looks
long term. It's our employees who bus their butts in
extraordinary times and deliver unbelievable results. And the fans who
(30:31):
love this game and so for us, that makes the difference.
And in your specific case, where you are taking something
from the ground up, creating something really special that ultimately
is going to bring even more talented people into our
league and uh, I think going to change the face
of the NFL or the rest of our history. That
(30:54):
to me is pretty powerful, and you've led the way
this season on earning it. We meet the people in
the bunker with Sam making change, head, coaches, owners, and
of course the women themselves. I just wanted to get better.
I wanted the d lines that I was in charge
(31:14):
of to be absolutely obnoxious and feared and hated across
any league that I coached. You're bringing more vantage points
to the table. You're bringing more perspective to the table,
and with that comes value. I think every business should
have that model of getting the biggest number of voices
and different ideas to have your business model off of,
(31:37):
rather than everyone looks like everyone thinks of. Like he said,
you're gonna knail him again whenever you work Super Bowl
in Tampa. I had to pull over on side the road.
You know, I'm to make sure I didn't lose sal
service and that I wasn't hearing something that wasn't true
and just know him and he said, you've earned it.
Sam Report, He's like the godfather of women in football.
(31:57):
None of us would be here without Sam effort I
Owe her Everything. Be sure to watch for Earning It,
the five part TV series from NBC and NFL Films,
coming to NBC and Peacock in January
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