December 7, 2021 • 40 mins
In this episode of Earnin’ It, Sam is joined by Sarah Thomas, the first woman to officiate a Super Bowl. They get honest about breaking barriers on NFL football fields, the secret vote that changed her career path, and the power of a ponytail.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
I want to start by asking you all a question,
how do you deal with pressure? And I'm not talking
about your everyday pressure. I'm talking about prime time pressure.
Are you ready yet? Here we are kick off a
second actually super Bowl level pressure. Super Bowl is underway
(00:25):
with my guest today live that kind of pressure. Sarah
Thomas officiated Super Bowl, becoming the first woman in NFL
history to do so. Anytime I walked through that tunnel,
I flipped the switch, and knowing that it was the
Super Bowl, and all the hard work that I put
(00:48):
in that year with the crew I was on, it's
just amazing. On this episode of Earning It, Sarah takes
us into that moment and that long road she walked
before it. Hi, everybody, I'm Sam Rappaport. If you've listened
(01:09):
to our first few episodes, you know this podcast is
about a group of people working behind the scenes at
the NFL to bring talented football minded women to the
forefront of the game. We've sat down with owners, coaches,
the commissioner, but today marks the first, actually the first.
(01:32):
Sarah Thomas is the first woman in NFL history to
officiate a Super Bowl. She's also the first woman to
officiate a major college game and a bowl game. Basically,
she's been breaking grass ceilings since the mid nineties. Well, Jim,
we saw Sarah Thomas make the call on that fourth down.
History has been made today as she becomes the first
(01:54):
female to officiate a Super Bowl. I didn't want to
do a snow angel in the companion, but I didn't crying.
But it was another game to us. Sam and I
just flipped that switch, and I know I've got to
go and work and I've got to be with this
elite crew. We did an amazing job and we just
want to go unseen, and I believe we did. Outside
of maybe there was a little piece of history. It's
(02:15):
important to note that Sarah Thomas wasn't placed on that
elite crew because she's a woman. NFL officials are graded
each week during the season. Imagine at work, your every
move is televised, taped, and scrutinized. She made the Super
Bowl crew because she had the highest scores at her
(02:36):
position called down judge every game, even preseason. We we
are graded, and we're graded not only on the fouls
that we we throw, but you know if we miss something,
I mean, you do not want to miss something um.
And it's not as if I've ever thought, oh gosh,
if I missed this, I'm not gonna get a postseason
(02:57):
as time. And I can't think that way. I don't
think that way. I've got to be in the moment
um and every snap and so at every game, every
play is looked at in the NFL, and you don't
want to have those mistakes. And there is no hiding
as an official that ranks number one. I mean, you
cannot hide in this occupation. And so when I got
(03:20):
the call, I had worked a playoff game two weeks before,
and when I got the call from Wayne Mackie, we
were just kind of going over a couple of things
and he said, well, he said, you're gonna knel him
again whenever you work Super Bowl FIKI five in Tampa.
I had to pull over on side of the road,
you know, to made sure I didn't lose cell service
and that I wasn't hearing something that wasn't true, and uh,
(03:42):
just just knowing. And he said, you've earned it always
to be number one in our position, and as a result,
she got the opportunity. Today, Sarah said she probably will
get a little teiod, but knowing the impact that she
is having not just on her daughter, but on young
girls everywhere. It's just a more couple. Yeah, she's inspiring
a lot of young women up there, and that's a
(04:03):
great to see. And she's talented too. You have that
that those moments where it's just like, yes you do, Sam,
you get the chills, the war of the crowd, your
crewmates going on our little devices and going, hey, you
nailed it. Are you being able to tell that to
your partner? And and we just operate as one out there.
But yeah, first quarter, second quarter, and you go on
(04:25):
end a half, you break down the plays, you know,
and stuff at at halftime. We don't have a whole
lot of time to do it. And then you go
back out. And you got to know, the kickoff of
the third is just as important to the kickoff of
the first. So it's all right, get back in here,
and you know, if it's if it's thirty seven to seven,
this is the NFL. It could be tied by the
(04:45):
end of the third quarter. I mean, it's like you
just go back out and it's it's a tied game.
So that's interesting. And for fans we call it odoh,
which is official to official communication. Those are the headsets
that the officials are wearing so they can communicate with
each other. So, Sarah, when you or anyone makes a
great hall, is that what's going on? Yes? And I
love it because before we had THEO, you were kind
of like out on an island by yourself. I mean,
(05:06):
you have the teams, and you may have your deep wing,
but you weren't. You weren't able to completely communicate with
the guy across the field from you. And now it's
just like, hey, if I get a spot from a
crossfield guy, he's like thanks, Sarah. I'll even tell him, hey,
I got you, I got you. And just being able
to communicate like that has definitely elevated our game and
precision and just you know that that zone that we
(05:28):
all stay in and knowing, hey there's seven of us
down there and two in the booth, and we're there
as one unit. The officials are really the third team
on the field during a game. They have so much responsibility.
One call can completely shift the momentum of a game.
One thing that you'll see a lot of us officials
we are kind of emotionless, Like you don't see the
(05:51):
emotional maybe at certain times. And I remember early on
in the years where we may laugh or smile in
our our supervisors will tell us how you don't need
to do that. Um, but the intensity level, we just
know you're going out for that second half. I know
fans are anticipating. Hey, these are the last two quarters
of the entire season, the Super Bowl. You've got one
team as ahead, and like I said, any time it
(06:13):
could be a very one sided game, but it could
switch real quickly. But we just have to keep the
same level of intensity throughout the game. If you ever
lose focus as an official, you will miss a very
crucial next play. So you just have to stay focused.
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have a second Super Bowl title
(06:38):
in franchise history. So, Sarah, the clock hit zero, the
Buccaneers win the Super Bowl. What's going on on, Otto,
And what's your next move after the game is over? Yeah?
So when the game was over, Otto, somebody may have said,
hell of a job. And then we all came together
on one sideline and we hugged each other's neck and
(06:59):
we were saying, yeah, hell of a job. We did
a great job. And then when that was over, we
went back to the locker room and I picked up
my phone and my oldest said, Mom, can we please
get a picture with you? So I said to security,
can I can I get a picture? And of course
all the crews comes in and we're hugging and hugging
and high fiving, and you know, we did it. We
(07:19):
did an elite, amazing job. We were all fascinated, of
course by seeing a woman calling penalties on that Super
Bowl field. But coming up here, Sarah Thomas tell us
how she got there in the first place. I was
told no that I couldn't made the eight team in
sixth grade because I was a girl. I couldn't do
this because I was a girl. And we want to
look at him as roadblock, Sam, we don't go through them.
(07:42):
And I've just learned we gotta change those roadblocks to
speed bumps and and just look through that that windshield.
I don't focus on the rear view mirror, and just
go for it, my guest. Sarah Thomas grew up in Mississippi.
(08:03):
A passionate athlete. She played softball and was an excellent
college basketball player. Her path to becoming a football official
was hardly straightforward. Yes, say I'm I jokably say I
hated the officials when I played sports, and truth be told,
they hated me. But that's the truth. I was like,
(08:24):
I was a basketball player. I was that player that
would push the envelope. Yeah, I've got four files, but
I'm doing everything I can to make you call that
fifth win on me. I mean, I was that player
and I and I would tell the you know myself, like,
we see you out here, are you officials? We see
you in the black and white stripes. We know you
can blow the whistle. You're the authoritative figure. But after
playing college basketball, I had always played pick up basketball
(08:46):
with my brothers and this guys team, and I was
always the only girl. And I've been in this men's
church league for three years and we had just won
the championship. And a few days after that, this guy
came up to me. He said, hey, Sarah, I'm sorry
about what happened last night. And I said, what are
you talking about? And he said, you don't know and
I was like, no, I don't know what you're talking about.
It He said, they voted you out of the men's
league last night. And I was like why and he said, well,
(09:08):
because you're a girl, and I was like, well, I've
been in this league for three years and they just
now realizing it. So I said, was anybody there from
my team? Because no one from my team said this
was happening because they knew I would be there if
that was the case. And he said no, there was
no one there, and so I said, I'm gonna protest
the vote. So we had a revote and it came
down to a tie. It was eight versus eight. And
(09:28):
there were these two brothers and I can't remember who
they are, but I guarantee that they remember who I am.
But they were so dirty. They would try to trip me,
they would hold my jersey, they would try to elbow me.
I'll just post him up and turn around shoot on
them or whatever. Well, they brought up this vote, and
so the preacher of the church league asked like, why
(09:51):
don't you want her end this league? And he said, well,
when she post us up or we post her up,
it just feels funny. Well, Sam, you know I'll speak
by mine at time. And uh so I just looked
at him and I said, you know what, I know,
I'm gonna get the boot if y'all didn't have the
decency to allow my team to have a vote in
the original vote. I said, but I'm I know I'm
gonna get the boot. So I looked at that guy
(10:13):
and I said, let me tell you something. I said,
as fast paced of the game as basketball is, if
you get some type of sexual sensation, now this, you
don't need to be playing the game of basketball. And
so I walked out of that that gymnasium. I said,
I tell everybody, I said, sexual sensation and the Baptist gymnasium.
You know, I was toast. I was history. And so
I call up my dad. I'm twenty three, and I'm furious.
(10:36):
I mean, I'm crying. I'm I'll never get I'm like, damn,
you gotta be kidding me. I mean, I think sports
my whole life from five and and because I'm a girl,
I can't play. It's not like I'm doing this to
bust up the good old voice book. It's just they
didn't have a woman's league, and I was trying to
work from eight to five. I couldn't drive the goulf
for it. I didn't have the money to do it.
And I it was about a couple of months. I mean,
(10:57):
I was distraught. Well, my older brother Lee, who I
jokingly say was average at best as an athlete, and
he could kill me, you know when I say that.
But we were on the phone and I asked him
what he was doing that even I was like, I
could care less what you were doing, brother at that time,
and if you said something, I definitely probably wasn't going
to join you. But when he said he was going
to a football officials meeting, I just said, can girls
(11:19):
do that? But I walked in that first meeting Sam,
and I was shocked that these guys actually took pride
in what they were doing. They were challenging each other
on you know what if scenarios, plays that may happen, rules,
and I loved it. I was like, if I hadn't
known this as an athlete, I may would have changed
my perspective of them. Then that competitive side of me,
(11:43):
I was like, I don't I don't know anything about
the game of football. I'm sure there's still people that
think I don't know anything about the game of football,
but I didn't know that there was, you know, eleven
on eleven. I didn't know that the numbers on the
jersey meant something. I mean It was a huge learning
curve for me. I thought I knew what holding was.
So imagine you're a young woman walking into a room
full of men asking to be a part of their club,
(12:07):
a club you know very little about. But yeah, I
walked in and sure enough they just stopped. There were
a lot of them that just stopped, like looking to
see and George Nash he stared me down and I said, hey,
I said, I said, is this where you've become a
football official? And I can't repeat exactly what George said,
but then he said, I guess so. George Nash was
(12:27):
one of Sarah's early mentors. He said, Sarah, we had
never had a woman to walk in, and he said,
I really thought you were somebody's wife coming to make
sure her husband was at the place he told her
he was going to be at. And he said, but
then whenever the guys would come up to me and
they'd be like, why is she here? What is she doing?
She didn't know anything about football. And this is what
(12:49):
George said. It is always great to have that one
advocate or mentor that is in a position, much like
Roger Goodell and Walt Anderson and Dean Landino that hired
me that one strong advocate. George just looked down and said,
all right, can we just point out a few things.
She is by far more athletic than we are. She's
younger than us, so she's got to have better eyesight
(13:11):
in us. And she's a graduate from the university, which
you haven't graduated from. You haven't either, so he said,
she's got to be smarter than us. And so if
I hadn't, I had that in George. But yeah, this
the stairs there, and then also the field, especially when
I got to college. Offreciating the high school kids, I
think they were just glad to be out there and
they wanted to win. But when I got the players
(13:32):
would they would turn around, they go, oh, that's a woman.
That's a woman. And of course some of my peers
is just like, you know, what is she? What is
she up to? What is she trying to do? And
and that's where I've learned that loves and I can't
try to prove people wrong. That list of people will
never end, and you will exhaust yourself on doing that.
But you just spend the time and energy on proven
(13:54):
that you belong and try to master your craft, and
things will fall into place. Sarah spend the next decade
learning about football officiating Peewee high school and eventually collegiate games.
In two thousand and seven, you were the first woman
to officiate a college football game. Two thousand and nine,
you were the first woman to officiate a bull game,
(14:14):
and then in two thousand and thirteen, you were one
of twenty one finalists in the NFL's officiating Development Program,
and then two years later first woman to officiate in
the NFL full time. Being selected to the twenty one
was huge, and being a part of the training camps
and and things that they would send me to and
asking questions, being on time, controlling the things you can control,
(14:38):
because chemistry off the field is just as important as
it is from the field. And so Sam, I just
think a lot of hard work and stay in humble
and surround yourself with good people and not being afraid
of failure. I just would want to say, those are
some of the characteristics that you know play a huge
part in it. Then then you know, just trying not
to make the mistakes of screwing up the game and
(14:59):
throwing a fly when you shouldn't and not throwing it
when you should right. So you're the first woman hired
is a full time official for the NFL, and then
four seasons later, you're the first female on field official
in playoff history. During a Divisional round playoff game between
the Chargers and the Patriots, Hillary Clinton was tweeting you,
Billy Jane Ki was tweeting you. Everyone was losing their
(15:21):
minds when you got that playoff assignment again because of
your grades and how you performed that season. So talk
to me a little bit about playoff game. What's going
through your minds that the same as a super Bowl
where it's just another game? Or do you have a
moment where like what is my life? What is going on?
You have officiating a playoff game? Yeah? You know that
fourth season whenever Ron Tolbert called me and he said, Sarah,
(15:42):
I want to congratulate you on being assigned to the
Charges Patriots playoff game. And I said, Ron, am I
on the field or am I on ulternate? And he
said You're on the field. Yeah. I screamed like a girl.
I'm stoked for sure. And I can't say, you know,
it's just I feel like I was so new. It
(16:04):
seems like, yes, my fourth season, but gosh, yeah, I was.
I was pumped getting a very first playoff assignment, kind
of like getting hired in the NFL and then with
growth and experience and being around the guys, Sarah, talk
to me a little bit about the reaction from players, Right,
you're in very close proximity to players, coaches, coaches screaming
(16:24):
in your phase, players interacting with you. Can you tell
us a little bit about your interaction with NFL players
during games and how that lives out for you. I'm
gonna tell you it's an equal opportunity employer, Sam. We
get showed out, I get chewed out, just like the
guys do. I mean the players are passionate there. I
mean this is their livelihood and that I take preseason
(16:44):
games as serious we do as I was a regular season,
because it could mean the difference in some guy's career, right,
I mean, it's important. Anything to do with the National
Football League is important, and it's meaningful to everybody. And
they all have a mama, is what I like to say.
And you would be shocked. People would be shocked at
(17:05):
the number of players that come up to me each
season and say congratulations. It's an honor to be on
the field with you. Yes, once you get into the
guts of the game, it's a different you know, we're
all down to business. I'll never forget my second year
saying my first year, I wanted to go into the
radar right. I didn't want to ruffle the crew. I didn't,
you know, draw togit to myself. My second season, I
(17:28):
got a preseason game in New York and there's a
coach that comes up to me, an assistant coach, and
he says, I just want to say thank you, And
I said for what? And he said, for what you're doing.
He said, I have coached in this league for twenty
plus years and I have two daughters, and because of you,
they now think they know more about football than I do.
And that has stuck with me, that this this is
(17:50):
going to be impactful, and I wanted to be impactful
and leave a mark that's positive and empowering. And and
so the players, yes, they see and stripes, it's business.
But before and after the game, it's congratulations. And it's
um an honor to be on the field with you.
And of course it's an honor for me to be
on the field with all of them. I can tell
(18:11):
you college was pretty humorous. I remember, um, somebody yelling
you need to take your panties off your head. Um,
you throw your flag like a girl, which is a
great thing. But now there's a lot of trolls that
had behind social media and they say, hey, why is
she in the kitchen and all this. But as far
as the players and the coaches in the NFL, um
(18:32):
anybody that I've encountered in the NFL, no one has
ever said you don't belong. It's been the complete opposite.
Belonging does not mean blending. In coming up the impact
of one long blonde ponytail on an NFL field, and
speaking of impact, and so they hit me and they
(18:52):
pinned my feet down in they sling me back, and
my hat blew off, and there was a gas in
the say and you know, I think they all realized, Oh,
it's the girl Sarah Thomas hits the frozen tundra heart.
(19:17):
When I have moments of doubt trying to make change,
I think about this story. When Sarah Thomas was hired
as a college official in two thousand and seven, she
was listed as SB Thomas, not Sarah. The commissioner of
the conference didn't know they had hired a woman. The
guy who hired Sarah, Gerald Austin, a former NFL official himself,
(19:41):
also told her to tuck her ponytail into her hat.
Sarah says he did it to protect her. Let me
say this about him telling me to tuck my hair.
I've learned that there was no one that looks like me.
But Gerald Austen had walked this walk and if he
felt the name, and he was a white male that
had been in the league, and he knew the scrutiny
(20:03):
that he would be he was under week in and
week out. He knew if I walked out there immediately,
I'd be stereotyped. So I do respect him for that,
I really did. But then he told me to wear
a little or no makeup, and I told him there
was no way in this world I would go without makeup.
There would be cameras and there's just no way. But
and also I didn't have the stack back. It's only
(20:25):
the fitted cap and I just gotten accustomed to it.
But Gerald diversifying and not being afraid to do it.
I want to say, yes here, I am working on
the field that if Gerald Austin hadn't have taken a
chance on hiring Sarah Thomas. Who knows? Who knows? Let's
dig deeper into that point on inclusion, Sarah, I think
(20:45):
that's a very important one. So when you started your
career in college in the NFL, you were asked to
keep your hair up in your fitted cap because they
didn't want you to stand out, and really they wanted
you to They were trying to protect you and put
you in a position to do your job. Well, but
can you talk about the evolution of that, because it's
very important for women to be able to be themselves
when they're trying to succeed in their jobs. Well, Gerald
(21:08):
told me to tuck my hair, and I ended up
doing that and it became I'm telling you it, it
felt weird. I mean, tucking this hair. Do I braid it?
Do I put a ponytail? Are their little stragglers hanging?
I mean, you know, you's just and I'm constantly worried
about my dad. I'm hat and how my hair looks
are what's the appearance it looks like? You know, I've
got this big old bubble on my you know, It's
(21:29):
just it looked odd and it felt off and progress
and I get hired into the NFL, and nobody in
them felt to me I could not wear my hair out.
But I'm just, you know, superstitious. I guess you know,
this is how I've done it, and I'm gonna do it.
And you called me my fourth season actually, and I
remember thinking to myself, we were talking about, Sarah, what
about your hair. We're seeing more and more females and
(21:52):
they're wearing their hair down. What do you Why don't
you wear your hair down? And I said, well, I
just don't like the look of it. You know, It's
like it's fitted and it's down, and the one looks good,
but it just wasn't mein And I told you, I
said I would wear a plentytail and a snap back,
and y'all sit, ma'am. It was pretty simple. We sent
her NFL officiating hats with a hole in the back.
(22:13):
Plus I have a hundred two year old ann and
she can spot me a lot easier on the field
and my blond plentytail. So can all the hundred thousands
of kids that are watching you on Sundays. Let's be
clear to our listeners those Sarah, this is not about vanity.
This is about being who you are on the field.
And when when men struggle to understand this, I often
ask them to picture coaching their daughter's lacrosse team in
(22:35):
address and will people take you seriously if you were
in address coaching And that's how we feel when you
make us fit into a box that isn't us. Right.
You are a big blonde ponytail, right, you are a woman,
and you're a proud woman on the sidelines. And so
I applaud the NFL offficiating department and applied you for
really saying, no, this is not good. We could be
better than this, right, and then we are better. We
(22:57):
got better, that's right? And gosh you am I going
to steal that line from you. Yeah, we're an address
of your daughter's lapross. I can't wait for that one.
I'm going to use that. Sarah, your position used to
be called headlinesman, right, that's right. That changed when you
came into the league. How did that happen? What's your
position called? Now? Talk to us about that, Kieff. Forever
(23:17):
it's been called headlinesman. And somebody asked me, they said, Sarah,
are they gonna if what if you were a headlinesman?
Even when like I was in college or or officiating
high school. Are they gonna say head lines woman? Are
they gonna say headlines person? Or because you're not a man?
And I didn't even it just changed and it was great,
Like I was told the position is changing headlinesman to
(23:39):
down judge? Whoever are doing all of this four thinking,
I just I've never been able to say thank you,
but it is great. I do say this though, Sam too.
Those digits on my back or a DJ or an
l J, they do not help me with fourth and
inches at the goal line on the last play of
the game. But I am telling you the fact that
it is down judge, Paul, wouldn't it be you know,
(23:59):
you've got a on judge of down jud field just sad.
But we're all, you know, except for the referee and umpire.
But it's great that it's just non gender and it's
a position, is a professional position, and it's non gender.
This reminds me of what Gerald Austin said about Sarah
when he hired her. Quote, if she does a good job,
(24:20):
she'll have a very positive effect. We're seeing it every day.
A couple of years ago, you spoke at the Boys
and Girls Club of America. And you've got a note
from someone after and I'll leave it anonymous, but something
she said was, I wanted to let you know that
the number of girls who have signed up to be
officials have increased from forty three to two hundred and
fifty eight in one year because you came and spoke
(24:41):
to them. The impact that you are having on young
girls involvement in sports is immeasurable. Talk to us about
what that felt like to read that that impact. It's
sad to me that little girls wouldn't take it aunts
(25:01):
and it is so rewarding and humbling, and just I'm
in off that it's me. I mean, you're you are
going to get material. I mean that's they hear someone,
they see it, and the numbers go from that to
two hundred and something. Just so honored. And I just
(25:23):
I stressed to any groups I talked to, no matter
the age, because if they're raising daughters or granddaughters, or
they're around nieces or nephews or just some childhood kid
that's next door, right, I just tell them they can
do anything they want. And the number of people that
come up to me around just the neighborhood I had
a sweet brand texted me this morning. She just said,
(25:44):
to see you, talk to anybody, wave at strangers, and um,
love on your kids and your daughter and she said,
just um, she said, you're walking the walk and so
I always want to be authentic and it is. It's
just crazy to a that, um, the impact this is having.
And I don't want to stop here. There's so much
(26:05):
more I'm going to do, and UM, I don't I
don't know where that's gonna be. I don't know if
I'm calling my shot on this one here, but I'm
not stopping here. And Sarah, you called me a few
days before the Super Bowl and what was one of
the most memorable calls I've received. And you talked about
your daughter Bailey and the impact that her seeing you
(26:27):
at this game will have on her, and you know,
hundreds of thousands of kids in this country. Can you
share with the with the listeners some of what you
told me about how important that is to you that
Bailey sees her mom on the sidelines of a Super Bowl.
Sam you remember a few years ago you asked me
about wearing my hair out and I said I would
wear it out if I had to snap back. Can
(26:48):
you believe that. My daughter Darren the start of the season,
she looked at me one night and she said, Mom,
because of you, and you get to wear your hair
out when I officiate, I can just be me, be
a girl. And when you hear your own daughters say that,
you know that there are so many other young girls
that are out there seeing the same thing. A post
(27:09):
on Instagram that your son posted soon after the game
to the strongest and most independent woman. I know, Mom,
I would be lying if I said I was just
proud of you. All that you have just done makes
me speechless. He must have wanted something, and you know,
like a new car or something that's I I kid
you not Sam. Yeah. Getting the honor to work a
(27:31):
Super Bowl amazing and the crew I was on with
Seoan Hockul. We had a great crew that year and
I tell them thank you all the time. But the
biggest joy I've received from working to Super Bowl is
being able to hear my kids be interviewed and just
like that was really posted and not ashamed to put
(27:53):
it out there, and listening to him say hey, yeah,
my mom's hard nos. And we may have our debates,
he said, but they just don't make them like her anymore.
And and then when he's asked, like, does she miss
a lot of things? And of course you knows some mom.
I know that I've missed tons of stuff, and he
just goes, No, she's been there for me, and she's
been there for the important things. And so I'll just
(28:14):
tell all those moms out there, listen, just be present
when you're there, and they'll forget that you miss the
Halloween party when they were in preschool. Sarah's got three
kids and one of the hardest jobs in sports. I've
had an inside view. I still don't know how any
of the NFL officials do it weekend and week out. Yeah,
a lot of fans and I get this. I get
(28:35):
this question a lot, like what do you do? What
do you call? And and I go there, like do
you just call like false starts or um all side?
And I go I do it all. I mean I
could call rough of the pastor if the quarterback comes
all the way outside and he gets hit and you know,
the white heads running, or the umpire and they don't
see it or whatever. I mean, my down judge position.
(28:55):
I do it all. And I'm constantly having to go
all right, I there's lines that means something to us
and when it creates a foul and my prestat routine.
If you only knew what was going through my head
from the last dead ball to the next snap, people
would be mesmerized because it's NonStop. We're snapping from here.
This means something, That line means something. Okay, they're lined
(29:18):
up right, all right, we get the ball off and
then it's depending on the formation, what am I going
to be looking at? Do I have quarterback ward passed
or I have the quarterback that goes beyond the line
of scrimmage for a foul. I mean, they don't know
that I'm watching that, and I am. But it's it's NonStop,
from the dead ball to the next snap. It's a lot.
The job is cerebral and quite physical. In two thousand sixteen,
(29:39):
Sarah got rocked on the sideline. Yeah, you know, it
was funny because when I was interviewed in two thousand eleven,
I remember being asked, what's gonna happen when you get hit?
And I just said, well, I hope you're concerned. Is
for all the officials, because I'm bigger than some of
the men that you hired, you know, And they got
a big laugh out of that. But yeah, it was
Christmas Eve, even bombing twenty nine degrees in Green Bay,
(30:02):
and the Vikings were playing the Packers, and it was
fourth quarter, around the seven minute mark. So the quarterback
I had responsibility for him if he goes beyond the
line of scrimmage. But he kind of flared out. He
didn't come right at me, and so I didn't go
too far back into the white and so I'm watching him.
And when I watched him, and that meant I took
(30:23):
my eyes off of the receiver and the defender. And
as soon as he slings it for a past I
turned to look at the feet and when I do,
I get trucked by two players, one being Kyle Rudolph.
The pass is caught by Kyle Rudolph. If you can't
picture Kyle, let me help you. The tight end is
(30:44):
six ft six and we was close to two hundred
and seventy pounds, and so they hit me and they
pinned my feet down and they sling me back and
my hat flew off, and there was a gas in
the stadium. I think they all realized, Oh, it's the girl.
Collusion on the sideline with the line judge. Her head
snapped back off the hard ground to hear at Lambeau Fields.
(31:07):
Hopefully she's ok. And so my head hit. My head
hit the frozen thunder, but I had the bun that
was probably what protected my head. And Sarah Thomas, the
line judge, too, popped right back up and yeah you could. Seriously,
I'm all right, But I come up and I knew
something was wrong with my wrist. So they take me
(31:30):
back to the trans ring. And when I got into
that tunnel, I lost my religion. I was so mad
at myself. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. The
girl got hit on national television on Christmas Eve. What
did I do wrong? Why did I get hit? So
they take me back the X ray say I have
a broken rest. I get on the trainer's table. There's
a player sitting there doing something and I look up
(31:52):
in the game. There's four minutes and something left to
go on this game. And I went, put this plint
on me. I'm going back in this game. And a
guy sitting on the trainer's table he goes, you're one
bay at you know what? And then security was like
You're not serious. Sorry, I said, oh, yes, I belonged
out there. And so I went back through that tunnel
and I it was I was on the the official
(32:13):
two official and it was a two minute warning. They
were all the way at the opposite end zone, and
I said, hey, fellows, you care if I join you?
And they were like, hell yeah, girl, get down here.
And so I tell everybody it was like the Cheeriots
of Fire. I felt like I was running the whole way.
And I got down there and and we finished the game.
I get back into my locker room and you can
(32:34):
imagine my kids blew up my phone. Everybody and said
I'll call my kids and they go, hey, Mom, are
you okay? And I said yes. I said, I just
have a broken rest and I go, well, you do
know you got run over by Rudolph on Christmas Eve
because it was Kyle Rudolph and it was Christmas Eve. Yeah,
so I have a nice plate and seven screws there
and a pin there, but um, you know it's that.
(32:56):
That's where I go back to that don't prove people wrong.
I knew I belonged out there. I wanted to be
out there, and so even though I had a broken risk.
I can still go work. That story blows my mind
every time I hear it. If you google that video,
Holy sh it, Sarah, you talked about you know that
you're not finished yet and that you have a lot
of work left to do in this You know you
(33:18):
are the first, but now you're not the only. Right
we have a second on field official in Mayashaka, a
friend of yours, talk about how did she get involved
in the game and and what's next for you her
and the rest of the women who want to get
into officiating. Maya and I have been co workers and
have formed a great friendship over the years. She came
(33:40):
into conference she wou was say, and we've talked several
times and her telling me thank you for paving this
way for her. And she's picked my brains about many
things that are off the field. But you know, when
you make it to the NFL, there's hundred twenty one
of us and the work that you've done to get
here our reason that we've been selected. And Maya she's
(34:03):
she's she's going to put in the work, She's going
to continue to put in the work, and I love
it that we're able to pick each other sprains and
talk about things, and she knows the importance of having
the male mentors to the ones that have walked this
before us. And you know, it's just welcome to the NFL.
And congratulations to Maya. Absolutely and certainly for women of
color and girls of color in this country, watching our
(34:25):
first woman of color who will be an official on
the field this season is incredibly exciting. Yeah, Sarah. Week
three of the season was a special moment for women
in football. Many of us had goose bumps watching that
game on the sidelines where we saw Cleveland Browns coach
Klie Brownson, Washington Football team running backs coach Jennifer King,
(34:46):
and you officiating a game. When we talk about women
in football, we don't want first, right, we want normalization.
We want ubiquity, and that game demonstrated ubiquity for maybe
the first time in NFL history. Sam, I love it
when you say, let's just get to a place where
there's not a first, And that is the mindset of
(35:08):
every woman on the sideline that I have met that
is coaching or in some role. They're gonna want to
be the first, and they're there to do their job
because they're capable of doing their job. But if we
can run a household and work in America, why can't
we be a part of football? If we love it,
(35:30):
we're doing the job. We're very capable, we're smart enough,
we we we want to do it. And like you,
I say that about my daughter and so many young girls.
I am ready for the day where they don't have
to ask can girls do that? They just go when
they do it. But having them on the sideline and
in the capacities that they're in, wow, and we're just wanted.
(35:53):
When we were doing the photo shoot, we knew well
the photo opportunity, the photo shoot, like we're some glamor girls.
But but when we're sitting there taking the picture, it
was literally we both were like, all right, let's do this.
And it's like congratulations, congratulations, and we got I mean,
we got jobs to do, right, but we know, we
all know the impact this is going to have and
that it did have and being a part of it,
(36:15):
and it was amazing. Sarah, where do you see football
sidelines in five to ten years? Gosh, Sam, five to
ten years, there's there's been a whole lot that's happened
in six season, seven seasons that I've been in the NFL.
I cannot imagine what it's going to be like in
five to ten years. I can tell you this, I'll
be shocked. Let me say this, there should be a
(36:38):
head coach Opinia in the NFL who that will be
the experience that she has. I don't know. There's people
way above my pay grade that know all that stuff sound,
but I just know the opportunities that are there for
women on the sideline are right there. I personally can't
(36:58):
wait until the day I get to see a female
head coach arguing a call with Sarah from the sidelines.
I could have talked to Sarah all day long, but
I knew I only had time for one last burning question.
All right, Sarah, everyone wants to know. I want to
know you officiated your first Super Bowl game. Did you
get a ring? I sure did, But you know, if
(37:21):
you talk about progression. Okay, So whenever I worked the
Super Bowl, one thing they talked about is your ring.
And I just text Sarah to Angelo at the office
and I said, Hey, I'm not gonna get a ring,
and I don't want to pendant because they're the men's
and they're just huge. And I said but could I get,
you know, just kind of like a knockoff like AZZ
or something for my two boys, and uh, you know,
(37:43):
have something maybe a pennant for my daughter later in life.
And she email Eva and she said, Sarah, they want
to make a woman's super Bowl ring for you. And
I went okay, And they sent me a couple of
designs and I looked at them and um, and I
chose this one. And I thought to myself, I pay
won't wear it, you know, I pay won't wear it.
(38:06):
I don't take it off. I take it off for
the games. But they made a woman's super Bowl ring.
I wear it all the time. I'm so proud of it.
I did change one little thing up though. The guys
put their last name on it, right, but I told
them I wanted my first name, Sarah, to put the
feminine touch on it instead of it being Thomas. So
(38:31):
it's pretty special. Love it, Sarah. Part of the path
you're blazing is now female officials will have hats that
suit their hairstyle. You've created a female super Bowl ring,
which is absolutely incredible. For people who are not fortunate
enough to have ever touched a super Bowl ring. That
thing must weigh like ten pounds. It's not very conducive
for a woman to wear it on her hand because
of the size of it. So the fact that you
(38:52):
created one, you know, specifically for women who would want
a ring like yours. The legacy you're leaving in this week, Sarah,
is a measurable and the impact that you've had on girls, women, boys, men,
every football fan in this country because of what you're
doing is nothing short of remarkable, and I want to
thank you so much for everything that you're doing to
make this game better and a little bit more like America.
(39:16):
Sam My Honor, you're the best. I'm telling you this
season on earning it. We meet the people in the
bunker with Sam making change, head coaches, owners and of
course the women themselves. I just wanted to get better.
I wanted the d lines that I was in charge
(39:37):
of to be absolutely obnoxius and feared and hated across
any league that I coached. You're bringing more vantage points
to the table, You're bringing more perspectives to the table,
and with that comes value. I think every business should
have that model of getting the biggest number of voices
and different ideas to have your business model off of that,
(40:00):
then everyone looks like everyone thinks I like, he said,
you're gonna kneil him again whenever you work Super Bowl
P five in Tamata. I had to pull over on
side the road. You know, I was to make sure
I didn't lose sal service and that I wasn't hearing
something that wasn't true and just know him. And he said,
you've earned it, Sam Wrapper for he's like the guyfather
of women in football. None of us would be here
(40:21):
without Sam's effort. I owe her everything. Be sure to
watch for Earning It, the five part TV series from
NBC and NFL Films, coming to NBC and Peacock in
January
I want to start by asking you all a question,
how do you deal with pressure? And I'm not talking
about your everyday pressure. I'm talking about prime time pressure.
Are you ready yet? Here we are kick off a
second actually super Bowl level pressure. Super Bowl is underway
(00:25):
with my guest today live that kind of pressure. Sarah
Thomas officiated Super Bowl, becoming the first woman in NFL
history to do so. Anytime I walked through that tunnel,
I flipped the switch, and knowing that it was the
Super Bowl, and all the hard work that I put
(00:48):
in that year with the crew I was on, it's
just amazing. On this episode of Earning It, Sarah takes
us into that moment and that long road she walked
before it. Hi, everybody, I'm Sam Rappaport. If you've listened
(01:09):
to our first few episodes, you know this podcast is
about a group of people working behind the scenes at
the NFL to bring talented football minded women to the
forefront of the game. We've sat down with owners, coaches,
the commissioner, but today marks the first, actually the first.
(01:32):
Sarah Thomas is the first woman in NFL history to
officiate a Super Bowl. She's also the first woman to
officiate a major college game and a bowl game. Basically,
she's been breaking grass ceilings since the mid nineties. Well, Jim,
we saw Sarah Thomas make the call on that fourth down.
History has been made today as she becomes the first
(01:54):
female to officiate a Super Bowl. I didn't want to
do a snow angel in the companion, but I didn't crying.
But it was another game to us. Sam and I
just flipped that switch, and I know I've got to
go and work and I've got to be with this
elite crew. We did an amazing job and we just
want to go unseen, and I believe we did. Outside
of maybe there was a little piece of history. It's
(02:15):
important to note that Sarah Thomas wasn't placed on that
elite crew because she's a woman. NFL officials are graded
each week during the season. Imagine at work, your every
move is televised, taped, and scrutinized. She made the Super
Bowl crew because she had the highest scores at her
(02:36):
position called down judge every game, even preseason. We we
are graded, and we're graded not only on the fouls
that we we throw, but you know if we miss something,
I mean, you do not want to miss something um.
And it's not as if I've ever thought, oh gosh,
if I missed this, I'm not gonna get a postseason
(02:57):
as time. And I can't think that way. I don't
think that way. I've got to be in the moment
um and every snap and so at every game, every
play is looked at in the NFL, and you don't
want to have those mistakes. And there is no hiding
as an official that ranks number one. I mean, you
cannot hide in this occupation. And so when I got
(03:20):
the call, I had worked a playoff game two weeks before,
and when I got the call from Wayne Mackie, we
were just kind of going over a couple of things
and he said, well, he said, you're gonna knel him
again whenever you work Super Bowl FIKI five in Tampa.
I had to pull over on side of the road,
you know, to made sure I didn't lose cell service
and that I wasn't hearing something that wasn't true, and uh,
(03:42):
just just knowing. And he said, you've earned it always
to be number one in our position, and as a result,
she got the opportunity. Today, Sarah said she probably will
get a little teiod, but knowing the impact that she
is having not just on her daughter, but on young
girls everywhere. It's just a more couple. Yeah, she's inspiring
a lot of young women up there, and that's a
(04:03):
great to see. And she's talented too. You have that
that those moments where it's just like, yes you do, Sam,
you get the chills, the war of the crowd, your
crewmates going on our little devices and going, hey, you
nailed it. Are you being able to tell that to
your partner? And and we just operate as one out there.
But yeah, first quarter, second quarter, and you go on
(04:25):
end a half, you break down the plays, you know,
and stuff at at halftime. We don't have a whole
lot of time to do it. And then you go
back out. And you got to know, the kickoff of
the third is just as important to the kickoff of
the first. So it's all right, get back in here,
and you know, if it's if it's thirty seven to seven,
this is the NFL. It could be tied by the
(04:45):
end of the third quarter. I mean, it's like you
just go back out and it's it's a tied game.
So that's interesting. And for fans we call it odoh,
which is official to official communication. Those are the headsets
that the officials are wearing so they can communicate with
each other. So, Sarah, when you or anyone makes a
great hall, is that what's going on? Yes? And I
love it because before we had THEO, you were kind
of like out on an island by yourself. I mean,
(05:06):
you have the teams, and you may have your deep wing,
but you weren't. You weren't able to completely communicate with
the guy across the field from you. And now it's
just like, hey, if I get a spot from a
crossfield guy, he's like thanks, Sarah. I'll even tell him, hey,
I got you, I got you. And just being able
to communicate like that has definitely elevated our game and
precision and just you know that that zone that we
(05:28):
all stay in and knowing, hey there's seven of us
down there and two in the booth, and we're there
as one unit. The officials are really the third team
on the field during a game. They have so much responsibility.
One call can completely shift the momentum of a game.
One thing that you'll see a lot of us officials
we are kind of emotionless, Like you don't see the
(05:51):
emotional maybe at certain times. And I remember early on
in the years where we may laugh or smile in
our our supervisors will tell us how you don't need
to do that. Um, but the intensity level, we just
know you're going out for that second half. I know
fans are anticipating. Hey, these are the last two quarters
of the entire season, the Super Bowl. You've got one
team as ahead, and like I said, any time it
(06:13):
could be a very one sided game, but it could
switch real quickly. But we just have to keep the
same level of intensity throughout the game. If you ever
lose focus as an official, you will miss a very
crucial next play. So you just have to stay focused.
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have a second Super Bowl title
(06:38):
in franchise history. So, Sarah, the clock hit zero, the
Buccaneers win the Super Bowl. What's going on on, Otto,
And what's your next move after the game is over? Yeah?
So when the game was over, Otto, somebody may have said,
hell of a job. And then we all came together
on one sideline and we hugged each other's neck and
(06:59):
we were saying, yeah, hell of a job. We did
a great job. And then when that was over, we
went back to the locker room and I picked up
my phone and my oldest said, Mom, can we please
get a picture with you? So I said to security,
can I can I get a picture? And of course
all the crews comes in and we're hugging and hugging
and high fiving, and you know, we did it. We
(07:19):
did an elite, amazing job. We were all fascinated, of
course by seeing a woman calling penalties on that Super
Bowl field. But coming up here, Sarah Thomas tell us
how she got there in the first place. I was
told no that I couldn't made the eight team in
sixth grade because I was a girl. I couldn't do
this because I was a girl. And we want to
look at him as roadblock, Sam, we don't go through them.
(07:42):
And I've just learned we gotta change those roadblocks to
speed bumps and and just look through that that windshield.
I don't focus on the rear view mirror, and just
go for it, my guest. Sarah Thomas grew up in Mississippi.
(08:03):
A passionate athlete. She played softball and was an excellent
college basketball player. Her path to becoming a football official
was hardly straightforward. Yes, say I'm I jokably say I
hated the officials when I played sports, and truth be told,
they hated me. But that's the truth. I was like,
(08:24):
I was a basketball player. I was that player that
would push the envelope. Yeah, I've got four files, but
I'm doing everything I can to make you call that
fifth win on me. I mean, I was that player
and I and I would tell the you know myself, like,
we see you out here, are you officials? We see
you in the black and white stripes. We know you
can blow the whistle. You're the authoritative figure. But after
playing college basketball, I had always played pick up basketball
(08:46):
with my brothers and this guys team, and I was
always the only girl. And I've been in this men's
church league for three years and we had just won
the championship. And a few days after that, this guy
came up to me. He said, hey, Sarah, I'm sorry
about what happened last night. And I said, what are
you talking about? And he said, you don't know and
I was like, no, I don't know what you're talking about.
It He said, they voted you out of the men's
league last night. And I was like why and he said, well,
(09:08):
because you're a girl, and I was like, well, I've
been in this league for three years and they just
now realizing it. So I said, was anybody there from
my team? Because no one from my team said this
was happening because they knew I would be there if
that was the case. And he said no, there was
no one there, and so I said, I'm gonna protest
the vote. So we had a revote and it came
down to a tie. It was eight versus eight. And
(09:28):
there were these two brothers and I can't remember who
they are, but I guarantee that they remember who I am.
But they were so dirty. They would try to trip me,
they would hold my jersey, they would try to elbow me.
I'll just post him up and turn around shoot on
them or whatever. Well, they brought up this vote, and
so the preacher of the church league asked like, why
(09:51):
don't you want her end this league? And he said, well,
when she post us up or we post her up,
it just feels funny. Well, Sam, you know I'll speak
by mine at time. And uh so I just looked
at him and I said, you know what, I know,
I'm gonna get the boot if y'all didn't have the
decency to allow my team to have a vote in
the original vote. I said, but I'm I know I'm
gonna get the boot. So I looked at that guy
(10:13):
and I said, let me tell you something. I said,
as fast paced of the game as basketball is, if
you get some type of sexual sensation, now this, you
don't need to be playing the game of basketball. And
so I walked out of that that gymnasium. I said,
I tell everybody, I said, sexual sensation and the Baptist gymnasium.
You know, I was toast. I was history. And so
I call up my dad. I'm twenty three, and I'm furious.
(10:36):
I mean, I'm crying. I'm I'll never get I'm like, damn,
you gotta be kidding me. I mean, I think sports
my whole life from five and and because I'm a girl,
I can't play. It's not like I'm doing this to
bust up the good old voice book. It's just they
didn't have a woman's league, and I was trying to
work from eight to five. I couldn't drive the goulf
for it. I didn't have the money to do it.
And I it was about a couple of months. I mean,
(10:57):
I was distraught. Well, my older brother Lee, who I
jokingly say was average at best as an athlete, and
he could kill me, you know when I say that.
But we were on the phone and I asked him
what he was doing that even I was like, I
could care less what you were doing, brother at that time,
and if you said something, I definitely probably wasn't going
to join you. But when he said he was going
to a football officials meeting, I just said, can girls
(11:19):
do that? But I walked in that first meeting Sam,
and I was shocked that these guys actually took pride
in what they were doing. They were challenging each other
on you know what if scenarios, plays that may happen, rules,
and I loved it. I was like, if I hadn't
known this as an athlete, I may would have changed
my perspective of them. Then that competitive side of me,
(11:43):
I was like, I don't I don't know anything about
the game of football. I'm sure there's still people that
think I don't know anything about the game of football,
but I didn't know that there was, you know, eleven
on eleven. I didn't know that the numbers on the
jersey meant something. I mean It was a huge learning
curve for me. I thought I knew what holding was.
So imagine you're a young woman walking into a room
full of men asking to be a part of their club,
(12:07):
a club you know very little about. But yeah, I
walked in and sure enough they just stopped. There were
a lot of them that just stopped, like looking to
see and George Nash he stared me down and I said, hey,
I said, I said, is this where you've become a
football official? And I can't repeat exactly what George said,
but then he said, I guess so. George Nash was
(12:27):
one of Sarah's early mentors. He said, Sarah, we had
never had a woman to walk in, and he said,
I really thought you were somebody's wife coming to make
sure her husband was at the place he told her
he was going to be at. And he said, but
then whenever the guys would come up to me and
they'd be like, why is she here? What is she doing?
She didn't know anything about football. And this is what
(12:49):
George said. It is always great to have that one
advocate or mentor that is in a position, much like
Roger Goodell and Walt Anderson and Dean Landino that hired
me that one strong advocate. George just looked down and said,
all right, can we just point out a few things.
She is by far more athletic than we are. She's
younger than us, so she's got to have better eyesight
(13:11):
in us. And she's a graduate from the university, which
you haven't graduated from. You haven't either, so he said,
she's got to be smarter than us. And so if
I hadn't, I had that in George. But yeah, this
the stairs there, and then also the field, especially when
I got to college. Offreciating the high school kids, I
think they were just glad to be out there and
they wanted to win. But when I got the players
(13:32):
would they would turn around, they go, oh, that's a woman.
That's a woman. And of course some of my peers
is just like, you know, what is she? What is
she up to? What is she trying to do? And
and that's where I've learned that loves and I can't
try to prove people wrong. That list of people will
never end, and you will exhaust yourself on doing that.
But you just spend the time and energy on proven
(13:54):
that you belong and try to master your craft, and
things will fall into place. Sarah spend the next decade
learning about football officiating Peewee high school and eventually collegiate games.
In two thousand and seven, you were the first woman
to officiate a college football game. Two thousand and nine,
you were the first woman to officiate a bull game,
(14:14):
and then in two thousand and thirteen, you were one
of twenty one finalists in the NFL's officiating Development Program,
and then two years later first woman to officiate in
the NFL full time. Being selected to the twenty one
was huge, and being a part of the training camps
and and things that they would send me to and
asking questions, being on time, controlling the things you can control,
(14:38):
because chemistry off the field is just as important as
it is from the field. And so Sam, I just
think a lot of hard work and stay in humble
and surround yourself with good people and not being afraid
of failure. I just would want to say, those are
some of the characteristics that you know play a huge
part in it. Then then you know, just trying not
to make the mistakes of screwing up the game and
(14:59):
throwing a fly when you shouldn't and not throwing it
when you should right. So you're the first woman hired
is a full time official for the NFL, and then
four seasons later, you're the first female on field official
in playoff history. During a Divisional round playoff game between
the Chargers and the Patriots, Hillary Clinton was tweeting you,
Billy Jane Ki was tweeting you. Everyone was losing their
(15:21):
minds when you got that playoff assignment again because of
your grades and how you performed that season. So talk
to me a little bit about playoff game. What's going
through your minds that the same as a super Bowl
where it's just another game? Or do you have a
moment where like what is my life? What is going on?
You have officiating a playoff game? Yeah? You know that
fourth season whenever Ron Tolbert called me and he said, Sarah,
(15:42):
I want to congratulate you on being assigned to the
Charges Patriots playoff game. And I said, Ron, am I
on the field or am I on ulternate? And he
said You're on the field. Yeah. I screamed like a girl.
I'm stoked for sure. And I can't say, you know,
it's just I feel like I was so new. It
(16:04):
seems like, yes, my fourth season, but gosh, yeah, I was.
I was pumped getting a very first playoff assignment, kind
of like getting hired in the NFL and then with
growth and experience and being around the guys, Sarah, talk
to me a little bit about the reaction from players, Right,
you're in very close proximity to players, coaches, coaches screaming
(16:24):
in your phase, players interacting with you. Can you tell
us a little bit about your interaction with NFL players
during games and how that lives out for you. I'm
gonna tell you it's an equal opportunity employer, Sam. We
get showed out, I get chewed out, just like the
guys do. I mean the players are passionate there. I
mean this is their livelihood and that I take preseason
(16:44):
games as serious we do as I was a regular season,
because it could mean the difference in some guy's career, right,
I mean, it's important. Anything to do with the National
Football League is important, and it's meaningful to everybody. And
they all have a mama, is what I like to say.
And you would be shocked. People would be shocked at
(17:05):
the number of players that come up to me each
season and say congratulations. It's an honor to be on
the field with you. Yes, once you get into the
guts of the game, it's a different you know, we're
all down to business. I'll never forget my second year
saying my first year, I wanted to go into the
radar right. I didn't want to ruffle the crew. I didn't,
you know, draw togit to myself. My second season, I
(17:28):
got a preseason game in New York and there's a
coach that comes up to me, an assistant coach, and
he says, I just want to say thank you, And
I said for what? And he said, for what you're doing.
He said, I have coached in this league for twenty
plus years and I have two daughters, and because of you,
they now think they know more about football than I do.
And that has stuck with me, that this this is
(17:50):
going to be impactful, and I wanted to be impactful
and leave a mark that's positive and empowering. And and
so the players, yes, they see and stripes, it's business.
But before and after the game, it's congratulations. And it's
um an honor to be on the field with you.
And of course it's an honor for me to be
on the field with all of them. I can tell
(18:11):
you college was pretty humorous. I remember, um, somebody yelling
you need to take your panties off your head. Um,
you throw your flag like a girl, which is a
great thing. But now there's a lot of trolls that
had behind social media and they say, hey, why is
she in the kitchen and all this. But as far
as the players and the coaches in the NFL, um
(18:32):
anybody that I've encountered in the NFL, no one has
ever said you don't belong. It's been the complete opposite.
Belonging does not mean blending. In coming up the impact
of one long blonde ponytail on an NFL field, and
speaking of impact, and so they hit me and they
(18:52):
pinned my feet down in they sling me back, and
my hat blew off, and there was a gas in
the say and you know, I think they all realized, Oh,
it's the girl Sarah Thomas hits the frozen tundra heart.
(19:17):
When I have moments of doubt trying to make change,
I think about this story. When Sarah Thomas was hired
as a college official in two thousand and seven, she
was listed as SB Thomas, not Sarah. The commissioner of
the conference didn't know they had hired a woman. The
guy who hired Sarah, Gerald Austin, a former NFL official himself,
(19:41):
also told her to tuck her ponytail into her hat.
Sarah says he did it to protect her. Let me
say this about him telling me to tuck my hair.
I've learned that there was no one that looks like me.
But Gerald Austen had walked this walk and if he
felt the name, and he was a white male that
had been in the league, and he knew the scrutiny
(20:03):
that he would be he was under week in and
week out. He knew if I walked out there immediately,
I'd be stereotyped. So I do respect him for that,
I really did. But then he told me to wear
a little or no makeup, and I told him there
was no way in this world I would go without makeup.
There would be cameras and there's just no way. But
and also I didn't have the stack back. It's only
(20:25):
the fitted cap and I just gotten accustomed to it.
But Gerald diversifying and not being afraid to do it.
I want to say, yes here, I am working on
the field that if Gerald Austin hadn't have taken a
chance on hiring Sarah Thomas. Who knows? Who knows? Let's
dig deeper into that point on inclusion, Sarah, I think
(20:45):
that's a very important one. So when you started your
career in college in the NFL, you were asked to
keep your hair up in your fitted cap because they
didn't want you to stand out, and really they wanted
you to They were trying to protect you and put
you in a position to do your job. Well, but
can you talk about the evolution of that, because it's
very important for women to be able to be themselves
when they're trying to succeed in their jobs. Well, Gerald
(21:08):
told me to tuck my hair, and I ended up
doing that and it became I'm telling you it, it
felt weird. I mean, tucking this hair. Do I braid it?
Do I put a ponytail? Are their little stragglers hanging?
I mean, you know, you's just and I'm constantly worried
about my dad. I'm hat and how my hair looks
are what's the appearance it looks like? You know, I've
got this big old bubble on my you know, It's
(21:29):
just it looked odd and it felt off and progress
and I get hired into the NFL, and nobody in
them felt to me I could not wear my hair out.
But I'm just, you know, superstitious. I guess you know,
this is how I've done it, and I'm gonna do it.
And you called me my fourth season actually, and I
remember thinking to myself, we were talking about, Sarah, what
about your hair. We're seeing more and more females and
(21:52):
they're wearing their hair down. What do you Why don't
you wear your hair down? And I said, well, I
just don't like the look of it. You know, It's
like it's fitted and it's down, and the one looks good,
but it just wasn't mein And I told you, I
said I would wear a plentytail and a snap back,
and y'all sit, ma'am. It was pretty simple. We sent
her NFL officiating hats with a hole in the back.
(22:13):
Plus I have a hundred two year old ann and
she can spot me a lot easier on the field
and my blond plentytail. So can all the hundred thousands
of kids that are watching you on Sundays. Let's be
clear to our listeners those Sarah, this is not about vanity.
This is about being who you are on the field.
And when when men struggle to understand this, I often
ask them to picture coaching their daughter's lacrosse team in
(22:35):
address and will people take you seriously if you were
in address coaching And that's how we feel when you
make us fit into a box that isn't us. Right.
You are a big blonde ponytail, right, you are a woman,
and you're a proud woman on the sidelines. And so
I applaud the NFL offficiating department and applied you for
really saying, no, this is not good. We could be
better than this, right, and then we are better. We
(22:57):
got better, that's right? And gosh you am I going
to steal that line from you. Yeah, we're an address
of your daughter's lapross. I can't wait for that one.
I'm going to use that. Sarah, your position used to
be called headlinesman, right, that's right. That changed when you
came into the league. How did that happen? What's your
position called? Now? Talk to us about that, Kieff. Forever
(23:17):
it's been called headlinesman. And somebody asked me, they said, Sarah,
are they gonna if what if you were a headlinesman?
Even when like I was in college or or officiating
high school. Are they gonna say head lines woman? Are
they gonna say headlines person? Or because you're not a man?
And I didn't even it just changed and it was great,
Like I was told the position is changing headlinesman to
(23:39):
down judge? Whoever are doing all of this four thinking,
I just I've never been able to say thank you,
but it is great. I do say this though, Sam too.
Those digits on my back or a DJ or an
l J, they do not help me with fourth and
inches at the goal line on the last play of
the game. But I am telling you the fact that
it is down judge, Paul, wouldn't it be you know,
(23:59):
you've got a on judge of down jud field just sad.
But we're all, you know, except for the referee and umpire.
But it's great that it's just non gender and it's
a position, is a professional position, and it's non gender.
This reminds me of what Gerald Austin said about Sarah
when he hired her. Quote, if she does a good job,
(24:20):
she'll have a very positive effect. We're seeing it every day.
A couple of years ago, you spoke at the Boys
and Girls Club of America. And you've got a note
from someone after and I'll leave it anonymous, but something
she said was, I wanted to let you know that
the number of girls who have signed up to be
officials have increased from forty three to two hundred and
fifty eight in one year because you came and spoke
(24:41):
to them. The impact that you are having on young
girls involvement in sports is immeasurable. Talk to us about
what that felt like to read that that impact. It's
sad to me that little girls wouldn't take it aunts
(25:01):
and it is so rewarding and humbling, and just I'm
in off that it's me. I mean, you're you are
going to get material. I mean that's they hear someone,
they see it, and the numbers go from that to
two hundred and something. Just so honored. And I just
(25:23):
I stressed to any groups I talked to, no matter
the age, because if they're raising daughters or granddaughters, or
they're around nieces or nephews or just some childhood kid
that's next door, right, I just tell them they can
do anything they want. And the number of people that
come up to me around just the neighborhood I had
a sweet brand texted me this morning. She just said,
(25:44):
to see you, talk to anybody, wave at strangers, and um,
love on your kids and your daughter and she said,
just um, she said, you're walking the walk and so
I always want to be authentic and it is. It's
just crazy to a that, um, the impact this is having.
And I don't want to stop here. There's so much
(26:05):
more I'm going to do, and UM, I don't I
don't know where that's gonna be. I don't know if
I'm calling my shot on this one here, but I'm
not stopping here. And Sarah, you called me a few
days before the Super Bowl and what was one of
the most memorable calls I've received. And you talked about
your daughter Bailey and the impact that her seeing you
(26:27):
at this game will have on her, and you know,
hundreds of thousands of kids in this country. Can you
share with the with the listeners some of what you
told me about how important that is to you that
Bailey sees her mom on the sidelines of a Super Bowl.
Sam you remember a few years ago you asked me
about wearing my hair out and I said I would
wear it out if I had to snap back. Can
(26:48):
you believe that. My daughter Darren the start of the season,
she looked at me one night and she said, Mom,
because of you, and you get to wear your hair
out when I officiate, I can just be me, be
a girl. And when you hear your own daughters say that,
you know that there are so many other young girls
that are out there seeing the same thing. A post
(27:09):
on Instagram that your son posted soon after the game
to the strongest and most independent woman. I know, Mom,
I would be lying if I said I was just
proud of you. All that you have just done makes
me speechless. He must have wanted something, and you know,
like a new car or something that's I I kid
you not Sam. Yeah. Getting the honor to work a
(27:31):
Super Bowl amazing and the crew I was on with
Seoan Hockul. We had a great crew that year and
I tell them thank you all the time. But the
biggest joy I've received from working to Super Bowl is
being able to hear my kids be interviewed and just
like that was really posted and not ashamed to put
(27:53):
it out there, and listening to him say hey, yeah,
my mom's hard nos. And we may have our debates,
he said, but they just don't make them like her anymore.
And and then when he's asked, like, does she miss
a lot of things? And of course you knows some mom.
I know that I've missed tons of stuff, and he
just goes, No, she's been there for me, and she's
been there for the important things. And so I'll just
(28:14):
tell all those moms out there, listen, just be present
when you're there, and they'll forget that you miss the
Halloween party when they were in preschool. Sarah's got three
kids and one of the hardest jobs in sports. I've
had an inside view. I still don't know how any
of the NFL officials do it weekend and week out. Yeah,
a lot of fans and I get this. I get
(28:35):
this question a lot, like what do you do? What
do you call? And and I go there, like do
you just call like false starts or um all side?
And I go I do it all. I mean I
could call rough of the pastor if the quarterback comes
all the way outside and he gets hit and you know,
the white heads running, or the umpire and they don't
see it or whatever. I mean, my down judge position.
(28:55):
I do it all. And I'm constantly having to go
all right, I there's lines that means something to us
and when it creates a foul and my prestat routine.
If you only knew what was going through my head
from the last dead ball to the next snap, people
would be mesmerized because it's NonStop. We're snapping from here.
This means something, That line means something. Okay, they're lined
(29:18):
up right, all right, we get the ball off and
then it's depending on the formation, what am I going
to be looking at? Do I have quarterback ward passed
or I have the quarterback that goes beyond the line
of scrimmage for a foul. I mean, they don't know
that I'm watching that, and I am. But it's it's NonStop,
from the dead ball to the next snap. It's a lot.
The job is cerebral and quite physical. In two thousand sixteen,
(29:39):
Sarah got rocked on the sideline. Yeah, you know, it
was funny because when I was interviewed in two thousand eleven,
I remember being asked, what's gonna happen when you get hit?
And I just said, well, I hope you're concerned. Is
for all the officials, because I'm bigger than some of
the men that you hired, you know, And they got
a big laugh out of that. But yeah, it was
Christmas Eve, even bombing twenty nine degrees in Green Bay,
(30:02):
and the Vikings were playing the Packers, and it was
fourth quarter, around the seven minute mark. So the quarterback
I had responsibility for him if he goes beyond the
line of scrimmage. But he kind of flared out. He
didn't come right at me, and so I didn't go
too far back into the white and so I'm watching him.
And when I watched him, and that meant I took
(30:23):
my eyes off of the receiver and the defender. And
as soon as he slings it for a past I
turned to look at the feet and when I do,
I get trucked by two players, one being Kyle Rudolph.
The pass is caught by Kyle Rudolph. If you can't
picture Kyle, let me help you. The tight end is
(30:44):
six ft six and we was close to two hundred
and seventy pounds, and so they hit me and they
pinned my feet down and they sling me back and
my hat flew off, and there was a gas in
the stadium. I think they all realized, Oh, it's the girl.
Collusion on the sideline with the line judge. Her head
snapped back off the hard ground to hear at Lambeau Fields.
(31:07):
Hopefully she's ok. And so my head hit. My head
hit the frozen thunder, but I had the bun that
was probably what protected my head. And Sarah Thomas, the
line judge, too, popped right back up and yeah you could. Seriously,
I'm all right, But I come up and I knew
something was wrong with my wrist. So they take me
(31:30):
back to the trans ring. And when I got into
that tunnel, I lost my religion. I was so mad
at myself. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. The
girl got hit on national television on Christmas Eve. What
did I do wrong? Why did I get hit? So
they take me back the X ray say I have
a broken rest. I get on the trainer's table. There's
a player sitting there doing something and I look up
(31:52):
in the game. There's four minutes and something left to
go on this game. And I went, put this plint
on me. I'm going back in this game. And a
guy sitting on the trainer's table he goes, you're one
bay at you know what? And then security was like
You're not serious. Sorry, I said, oh, yes, I belonged
out there. And so I went back through that tunnel
and I it was I was on the the official
(32:13):
two official and it was a two minute warning. They
were all the way at the opposite end zone, and
I said, hey, fellows, you care if I join you?
And they were like, hell yeah, girl, get down here.
And so I tell everybody it was like the Cheeriots
of Fire. I felt like I was running the whole way.
And I got down there and and we finished the game.
I get back into my locker room and you can
(32:34):
imagine my kids blew up my phone. Everybody and said
I'll call my kids and they go, hey, Mom, are
you okay? And I said yes. I said, I just
have a broken rest and I go, well, you do
know you got run over by Rudolph on Christmas Eve
because it was Kyle Rudolph and it was Christmas Eve. Yeah,
so I have a nice plate and seven screws there
and a pin there, but um, you know it's that.
(32:56):
That's where I go back to that don't prove people wrong.
I knew I belonged out there. I wanted to be
out there, and so even though I had a broken risk.
I can still go work. That story blows my mind
every time I hear it. If you google that video,
Holy sh it, Sarah, you talked about you know that
you're not finished yet and that you have a lot
of work left to do in this You know you
(33:18):
are the first, but now you're not the only. Right
we have a second on field official in Mayashaka, a
friend of yours, talk about how did she get involved
in the game and and what's next for you her
and the rest of the women who want to get
into officiating. Maya and I have been co workers and
have formed a great friendship over the years. She came
(33:40):
into conference she wou was say, and we've talked several
times and her telling me thank you for paving this
way for her. And she's picked my brains about many
things that are off the field. But you know, when
you make it to the NFL, there's hundred twenty one
of us and the work that you've done to get
here our reason that we've been selected. And Maya she's
(34:03):
she's she's going to put in the work, She's going
to continue to put in the work, and I love
it that we're able to pick each other sprains and
talk about things, and she knows the importance of having
the male mentors to the ones that have walked this
before us. And you know, it's just welcome to the NFL.
And congratulations to Maya. Absolutely and certainly for women of
color and girls of color in this country, watching our
(34:25):
first woman of color who will be an official on
the field this season is incredibly exciting. Yeah, Sarah. Week
three of the season was a special moment for women
in football. Many of us had goose bumps watching that
game on the sidelines where we saw Cleveland Browns coach
Klie Brownson, Washington Football team running backs coach Jennifer King,
(34:46):
and you officiating a game. When we talk about women
in football, we don't want first, right, we want normalization.
We want ubiquity, and that game demonstrated ubiquity for maybe
the first time in NFL history. Sam, I love it
when you say, let's just get to a place where
there's not a first, And that is the mindset of
(35:08):
every woman on the sideline that I have met that
is coaching or in some role. They're gonna want to
be the first, and they're there to do their job
because they're capable of doing their job. But if we
can run a household and work in America, why can't
we be a part of football? If we love it,
(35:30):
we're doing the job. We're very capable, we're smart enough,
we we we want to do it. And like you,
I say that about my daughter and so many young girls.
I am ready for the day where they don't have
to ask can girls do that? They just go when
they do it. But having them on the sideline and
in the capacities that they're in, wow, and we're just wanted.
(35:53):
When we were doing the photo shoot, we knew well
the photo opportunity, the photo shoot, like we're some glamor girls.
But but when we're sitting there taking the picture, it
was literally we both were like, all right, let's do this.
And it's like congratulations, congratulations, and we got I mean,
we got jobs to do, right, but we know, we
all know the impact this is going to have and
that it did have and being a part of it,
(36:15):
and it was amazing. Sarah, where do you see football
sidelines in five to ten years? Gosh, Sam, five to
ten years, there's there's been a whole lot that's happened
in six season, seven seasons that I've been in the NFL.
I cannot imagine what it's going to be like in
five to ten years. I can tell you this, I'll
be shocked. Let me say this, there should be a
(36:38):
head coach Opinia in the NFL who that will be
the experience that she has. I don't know. There's people
way above my pay grade that know all that stuff sound,
but I just know the opportunities that are there for
women on the sideline are right there. I personally can't
(36:58):
wait until the day I get to see a female
head coach arguing a call with Sarah from the sidelines.
I could have talked to Sarah all day long, but
I knew I only had time for one last burning question.
All right, Sarah, everyone wants to know. I want to
know you officiated your first Super Bowl game. Did you
get a ring? I sure did, But you know, if
(37:21):
you talk about progression. Okay, So whenever I worked the
Super Bowl, one thing they talked about is your ring.
And I just text Sarah to Angelo at the office
and I said, Hey, I'm not gonna get a ring,
and I don't want to pendant because they're the men's
and they're just huge. And I said but could I get,
you know, just kind of like a knockoff like AZZ
or something for my two boys, and uh, you know,
(37:43):
have something maybe a pennant for my daughter later in life.
And she email Eva and she said, Sarah, they want
to make a woman's super Bowl ring for you. And
I went okay, And they sent me a couple of
designs and I looked at them and um, and I
chose this one. And I thought to myself, I pay
won't wear it, you know, I pay won't wear it.
(38:06):
I don't take it off. I take it off for
the games. But they made a woman's super Bowl ring.
I wear it all the time. I'm so proud of it.
I did change one little thing up though. The guys
put their last name on it, right, but I told
them I wanted my first name, Sarah, to put the
feminine touch on it instead of it being Thomas. So
(38:31):
it's pretty special. Love it, Sarah. Part of the path
you're blazing is now female officials will have hats that
suit their hairstyle. You've created a female super Bowl ring,
which is absolutely incredible. For people who are not fortunate
enough to have ever touched a super Bowl ring. That
thing must weigh like ten pounds. It's not very conducive
for a woman to wear it on her hand because
of the size of it. So the fact that you
(38:52):
created one, you know, specifically for women who would want
a ring like yours. The legacy you're leaving in this week, Sarah,
is a measurable and the impact that you've had on girls, women, boys, men,
every football fan in this country because of what you're
doing is nothing short of remarkable, and I want to
thank you so much for everything that you're doing to
make this game better and a little bit more like America.
(39:16):
Sam My Honor, you're the best. I'm telling you this
season on earning it. We meet the people in the
bunker with Sam making change, head coaches, owners and of
course the women themselves. I just wanted to get better.
I wanted the d lines that I was in charge
(39:37):
of to be absolutely obnoxius and feared and hated across
any league that I coached. You're bringing more vantage points
to the table, You're bringing more perspectives to the table,
and with that comes value. I think every business should
have that model of getting the biggest number of voices
and different ideas to have your business model off of that,
(40:00):
then everyone looks like everyone thinks I like, he said,
you're gonna kneil him again whenever you work Super Bowl
P five in Tamata. I had to pull over on
side the road. You know, I was to make sure
I didn't lose sal service and that I wasn't hearing
something that wasn't true and just know him. And he said,
you've earned it, Sam Wrapper for he's like the guyfather
of women in football. None of us would be here
(40:21):
without Sam's effort. I owe her everything. Be sure to
watch for Earning It, the five part TV series from
NBC and NFL Films, coming to NBC and Peacock in
January
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