10 Most Interesting QBs with Ben Solak

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by ESPN's Ben Solak to discuss the top-ten most interesting quarterbacks in the NFL. First, the guys react to the Buccaneers giving Jason Licht and Todd Bowles contract extensions (01:00). After the news, the guys tell you why Geno Smith (03:30), C.J. Stroud (08:50), Bryce Young (12:30), Trevor Lawrence (17:50), Caleb Williams (24:46), Justin Herbert (28:50), Justin Fields (35:00), Dak Prescott (37:55), Bo Nix (40:40), and Kyler Murray (45:00), and at the most interesting parts of their careers. Finally, the show is wrapped up with a thank you to the listeners and everyone involved with the first year of NFL Daily and the announcement of NFL Daily's Top 25 Players of the Last 25 Years series (49:39).

Note: time codes approximate. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we don't need a stink
in island to talk about quarterbacks. I'm Greg rosenthalm here
in the Chris Wesleyan podcast studio and talking to my
friend Ben Solack of ESPN from across the country.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Can I call you a friend, Ben.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
We've just done a couple of podcasts together that might
be preventive.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
And we've we've regularly been at the same events and
then not been able to attend to the same like
social gatherings like Oh, I've got a poly gotta do this,
so you got to go somewhere TV and do that.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
So, yeah, friend, that's a stretch. Looking forward.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
I think I've shook your hand once. I hope it
will make a second time with them soon. It's a stretch.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
I felt self conscious about it the second I said it,
But Ben was the guy I thought of here and
shout out to our listener Eric Jensen, who gets a
co producer credit here, saying we hadn't been doing enough
quarterback stuff lately and thought of Ben. Talk a little
quarterbacks before we break for the summer. So we're going
to talk about the most interesting quarterbacks of twenty twenty five.

(01:01):
But before we do that, just a little bit of
news dropped surprisingly on Thursday morning, we got some contract
extensions for general manager Jason Light of the Buccaneers and
his head coach, Todd Bowles through twenty twenty eight. We
had Jason Light on the show earlier this offseason. We've
said it when he's not on the show that we
think he is one of the best GMS. Was It

(01:22):
was drafted very high in our GM Draft US a
few weeks ago, so makes a lot of sense that
he gets it. It's interesting that Bowles gets it at
the same time. Where do you look or where do
you see this Bucks team like where they are in
their team building, especially where Bulls and Light are at.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yeah, I've been very big on the Bucks this offseason,
and I think that when you go to make the
NFC market for who's going to represent the conference in
the Super Bowl, I think you have to put the
Eagles at the top, and then I think the Bucks
des are to be in that next tier. I would
like Lions, Rams Buccaneers would be doing my next grouping.
The Buccaneers defense last year was really rough and they
had a ton of injuries in the back seven, and
they struggled to generate a pass rush. If you go

(01:59):
when you look at the history of Todd bowles defenses,
it's it's probably going to get better, Like that's one
of the worst defenses he's ever fielded. He's a pretty
reliably good defensive coach, has the system that's been working
for a long time. They invested a ton in that
back seven, so I think the defense is going to
take a step back to normalcy. And then that offense
returned all eleven starters. They resigned Ben Bretison in free agency,
they resigned Chris Gobin free agency.

Speaker 4 (02:20):
Everybody's back in a meekig Buka is the cherry on top.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
So long as you trust Josh Grizzard to kind of
keep the ship online as I would expect him to
in Liam Cohn's departure, that's gonna be a top ten
offense again.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
So I'm big on the Bucks.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
I know that there's frustration with Todd Bowles's game management
and time out. U says he's not offensive head coach,
but I still think is a good head coach in
the league. Is a great defensive coach, and yeah, Jason
light Proof of the Puddings in the end with that team.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
They're a good group.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, he's a great game plan defensive coach, and that's
why I'm not too worried about last season for him.
I would also caution people of assuming too much based
on the extension, like Jason Light's going to be there
for a while if for whatever reason they had a
really disappointing year. That that ownership group has eaten some
coaching contract before. And so it's great for Todd Bowles

(03:02):
and his family, great guy that he gets some long
term security, but it's still the NFL like that did
not help out Rhal Morris back in the day, actually,
way back in the John Gruden days, he had just
signed like an extension. They have rolled through coaches if
they feel like making a change, so they're going to
have to keep winning. I'm with you, though, I hate
that it's the consensus pick, but it makes too much
sense that the Buccaneers to me, are right there at

(03:24):
the top of one of the favorites to go to
the Super Bowl. All right, let's get to let's get
to our quarterbacks. Let's talk most interesting quarterbacks. And I
alluded to it at the top. We do a lot
of talk about who are the best ten to twelve
quarterbacks in the league or the most fascinating who defines
a position? That's what we do on Quarterback Island, but
we haven't done that in the offseason. I didn't want

(03:45):
to do a rankings. I just wanted to kind of
take a step back, maybe Ben, and kind of look
at where these quarterbacks are in the big picture of
their careers, like where they are at their development. Who
is the most interesting guys going into twenty twenty five.
So this isn't a ranking, but we'll just go back
and forth and you can get us going who you
find interesting.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
Yeah, I would be remiss to come on a Greg
rosen Told podcast and not start with Gino Smith.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Okay, yeah, I think Gino is as a really really.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Interesting quarterback for twenty twenty five because Gino got the
starting job in twenty two there in Seattle, started for
three years, and pretty much everybody like, okay, everybody agreed,
this is a lot better than we thought it was
gonna be. Who knew Gino Smith had this in them.
But there's still a pretty decent divide between those who
are like, this is a good starting quarterback in the NFL.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
This guy's clearly got it.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
He can be like you know, the past or the
captain of a top offense, or no, he's just won
another big pile of like decent starters. You're you know
all the Sam Donald move is not like a downgrade.
He's maybe you win with him. Sometimes he's got some
problems whatever. I feel like there's still a solid disparity
between the believers and the doubters, even in the Gino
Smiths assension.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Where are you?

Speaker 3 (04:51):
I believer and like, I'm firmly there last season if
you look at true dropbacks, we're talking not play action,
not screens, and not garbage. Gino is eighth and success
rate thirteenth, ePaper play third, and on target rate first
and explosive pass rate. Gino Smith is heavy metal. He
grips in, rips it. He is a very fun pocket
passer to watch. We saw him for those three years
in Seattle behind a struggling offensive line with carousel of offensive coordinators,

(05:16):
without a reliable running game. Right by success rate, his
three run offenses were twenty fifth, seventeenth, and thirty first
over the last three years. Distanced to go on third
down thirtieth, twenty first, and twenty fifth. Yeah, playing behind
the sticks right on offense line that did not pass
protect well, and he have a lot of true dropbacks,
a lot of third and lungs. Now he's going to
Las Vegas, where I'm not sure the pass protection is better,

(05:37):
but the environment is totally new. Right, It's not okay
shots at DK Metcalf anymore. Now it's usdry Kobe Meyers,
your brock Bauers, your underneath stuff. It's a Chip Kelly offense.
The running game might be a lot better. The drafting
of Ashton gent like the Raiders are just a very
unique nucleus, a system in general, a unique solar system
in general. And then dropping Gino in there, I think
we're going to learn a ton about the truth of

(05:58):
Gino Smith Eve and I believe even that he's that
legitimate guy or maybe you know, we'll continue to see
the high interception issues, that some of the sack problems,
some of the inviting pressure issues, and we'll realize what
the ceiling is on the guy. So I think we're
gonna learn a ton about Geno on twenty five.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
I agree he was high on my list, but I
just want to replay, like everything you just said contextually
about Gino Smith every once in a while on this
podcast when anyone comes at me, Yeah, I got about
Gena that that was absolutely beautiful because the situation for
Seattle we've talked about and you did a good job
doing it. This is a different spot though, and Chip Kelly,
he's fascinating as well. Gino Smith is going to turn

(06:33):
thirty five years old this year, and so the way
that he's changed his career around, like he is going
to be a touchstone for talented quarterbacks who didn't get
off to a fast start for whatever reason or maybe
didn't even play that much in their twenties forever. And
that's great, but can you have a fourth act? Essentially,
his first act is the Jets. His second act is

(06:55):
floating around and being a backup to all.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
These great quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
His third act people can disagree about how great it was,
but you know, I think he's been underrated still because
of the situation around him.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
And as you say, he's heavy metal. Great way to
put it.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
That number three in on target rate really stands out
to me because that's the thing. To me, he can
make high level throws and be on target and does
the hardest thing.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
So well.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Now that said, like, it is another level to go
do it on another team, totally different situation. I know
he's had a different offensive coordinator in Seattle a couple
different times, so he's had to learn new systems, but
it is different to lead a totally different organization and
it's a weird build as you mentioned, kind of gent
and Bowers leading the way in Kelly.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
But I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
I don't know if I'm not going to change my
mind no matter how much this goes, how well this goes,
you know, in terms of how he did in Seattle
based on how he does in Las Vegas. But yeah,
if he's money in a totally different situation, that elevates
his career to an even different level. Like we really
haven't seen many careers quite like him. He's like a
poor man's rich Gannon or something like that.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, I do think and like to step away from
the offield stuff and to remind ourselves that Pete Carroll
was the guy who had faith in him. Gino has
a very strong relationship with Pete, and you go back
and you watch especially this twenty twenty four season, it's
pretty clear that like Gino and DK are frustrated each
other for a long time, and like no one was
able to really reconcile that, like they were just bad
body language.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
Sessbach.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
The second half of the season, I think Gino's player
can even take a step forward independent of like oh
who's he throwing to avins line situation, just with like
I'm back with Pete. This is the guy who believing me.
This is the guy who first got me up out
of that pit, and now we can we can elevate
another level. So I've got I'm very high on the Raiders.
If you if you see the team most likely to
jump from like you know, picking top ten to contending
for a playoff spot, Las Vegas is like top of

(08:38):
my list.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
I think they're going to be a jit.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
I feel that, and then I look at the depth chart,
especially on defense, and I do worry that I'm just.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Watching a lot of snaps.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
I'm counting so much on just like the magic Pete
Carroll like sprinkle all over the roster.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
But it could work, all right. I'm going to go
with c J. Stroud.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
I'm not putting this in any order for eat one,
but sometimes I'll see the numbers this off season and
I've seen a couple of the quarterback rankings where you
look at just the stats from last year, whether it's
success ray or EPA per play, and you see like CJ.
Stroud's like in the mid twenties, and You're like, WHOA,
Because I just didn't feel as different about CJ. Stroud

(09:17):
as a player last year as the numbers indicated. If anything,
the first six or seven weeks, I thought he was
fantastic in a very difficult situation, and then the roof
caved in on him and he started to play a
little more like a young quarterback. But one of the
things that I believe in watching quarterbacks over the years
is if you can show a high level of play

(09:37):
at some point, especially as early as CJ. Stroud did
in terms of the neck up and in terms of
the accuracy, that level is there, and I'm not worried
about him at all. So he's got to do it.
It's a different system. I know on paper, the offensive
line looks like a mess, so it's not like everything
is perfect. Tank Dell is not going to be around.
He's going to have to work in a couple of rookies,

(09:58):
but he is such a fun player to watch. Not
totally dissimilar to it to a Gino Smith in the
way that he can move inside the pocket and that
he's just inaccurate and as you would say, again heavy
metal down the field like just a talented thrower. But
you want to see it happen. Year three c J.
Stroud in the new offense. I'm excited to see what
he looks like.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, when you go and you look at Stroud's twenty
three into twenty four, it reminds me a lot of
the discussion we had about Mahomes twenty twenty into twenty one,
when defenses first really started changing how they played against
the guy and there was a growing process both from
a coaching perspective and from a quarterback play down perspective.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
And how do I deal with this?

Speaker 3 (10:36):
I have my numbers from I wrote about it in
week twelve, so I don't know what these season exact
numbers were. But he went from seeing in his rookie
season about thirty five percent cover three down to about
twenty six percent. His cover two rate, he saw it
doubled from ten percent to twenty percent. He was just
seeing too high at a dramatically higher rate. And it's
because those twenty three Texans Bobby Slovak and know it's
a condensed personnel run the football twenty one twelve personnel

(10:58):
run run, run, run, run, And then even with the
addition of Joe Mixon into twenty four, defenses were like, Okay,
we're more scared of CJ. We're more scared of Nico Columns,
We're more scared of the top coming off this defense.
We're going to make you be more physical with us underneath.
And that's where that offensive line really really failed them.
And so Stroud spoke a lot about this. You heard
him talk about it in the off season, before the
season and then during the season about how I've had
a pretty dramatically change how i play because I'm just

(11:20):
not getting the coverage just so I was able to
enjoy in your one. And so the expectation for Nick Cayley,
who I think is probably the most important new offense.
It's either Hahm or Josh Grizzer there with Campa Bay,
but the most important new offensive coordinator higher. The emphasis
is just if you can get the easy buttons back,
if you can get the strain back in the box,
you can get a little bit more single eye coverage
and let Shroud and Nico do what they do well.

(11:41):
This can rebound immediately. The office line might be a
limited factor, but you can get back to those coverages
you want to see, get back to that heavy zone
base personnel and then just grip it and rip it
against play action. And so I saw have a ton
of faith in Shroud. The individual player question marks, offensive coordinator,
offensive line are kind of get to dictate how much
we can get back to at that rookie season level.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, the the ability to ultimately handle pressure and move
around in the pocket while going through your reads. It's
just such a hard skill to learn. I don't think
you lose it. I think get into bad habits when
the offensive line is totally falling apart and you're not
getting enough answers from your coordinator.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
And so to me that he's got that, he's got
the tough.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Stuff, and I'm really excited and I'm rooting for him
since my son, for whatever reason, lives and dies by
c J.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Stroud. All right, give me another interesting quarterback, Ben.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Let's stay with that twenty three class. I think, like
Bryce Young is is absolutely fascinating. We've seen a lot
of quarterback recoveries over the last two years. We've seen
the Baker Mayfield moments and the Geno Smith moments. You
know you're for Sam Donald moment that's happening now. But
if we can get this faster recovery from like an
historically bad rookie season into then a functional year two
season and then year three, he's like cemented as the starter.

(12:57):
He is a legit quarterback in the NFL. That's a huge, huge,
which turnaround a massive feather in Dave Canalis's cap. I
have my suspicions. I think a lot of what you
saw Bryce Young be successful with last season was making
really high leverage connections down the field on important downs.
From Week five ons is after he was benched, he
was thirty first in on target rate, fourth and completion

(13:18):
percentage over expectation. So that's telling you we're not delivering
the number of accurate passes we'd like to see the boy.
When they are accurate, we're able to come down with
them even in get tested situations, even further down the field.
And of course, the Panthers wide receiver corps was not
renowned for being like a great unit. But if you
go put the film on and see what Jalen Kocher's

(13:39):
doing for him down the field, and Jadavid Sanders is
doing after the catch, Adam Field's doing through contact. They
were getting away with right, you know, pressured throws and
one on one shots and able to live on that.
That's typically not super sustainable, and especially doesn't feel sustainable
when we have a smaller quarterback back there, because the
hits that he's taking and the moonshots that he's connecting
on are just a lot more frail. You think about

(14:00):
the late career Russell Wilson, where it's like, all right,
I don't know if we can continue to catch these
checks the way that we do. When we were younger,
Russell moved a lot better, He escaped a lot more danger,
He survived a lot more contact than Bryce Joonks really
ever gonna do with Bryce Junk is that thinner guy.
And so the production last season was hugely important because
it gave young confidence, It gave the Panthers a blueprint,

(14:21):
It gave Dave Canal something he could roll back on
the draft Ted ROALDT. McMillan, which is a clear sign
that they want to continue living on some of these
vertical downfield balls. But it is it's a thin needle
to thread, it really really is. And so I'm cautiously optimistic,
but still have my doubts about Bryce hung and your
three and so again an interesting quarterback who were to
learn a lot more about it.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
I feel like you're a skeptic deep down.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
I mean, like I wrote after the benching in week
two that this is chocked, like was, there's just no
way because you go back and watch week one, Week two, dude,
I mean, it's not just bad, it's dreadful, right.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Gotta give it, you gotta give it some time.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
But he is different than almost any quarterback development that
I can think of, because my thing going into last
year with him was can he just be Alex Smith?
And I've seen enough rookie quarterbacks look completely abysmal that
had good careers. It's not that often, but Alex Smith

(15:15):
is one of them. Eli Manning is another one, Jared
Gofs another. Those are three of the worst rookie seasons
of all time. They're as bad or worse as Bryce,
including how Bryce looked in those first couple of games,
and they bounced back. The difference is Bryce's size. I know,
Alex Smith wasn't huge, but he's much bigger than Bryce Young.
Are you at all concerned, like looking inside, I don't.

(15:36):
I've never you know, I'm not sure how big you are, Ben,
but I'm a very dominiative man. That it's almost like
a self hating thing that you can't imagine a guy
like Bryce Young being that successful at the NFL level.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
It absolutely, it's a big part of it. Right.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
If Bryce Young succeeded the NFL level means I could
have succeeded and I quit too early.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
That's obviously that the big difference. Faker.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Bryce does have a few interests and a few pounds
on me, unfortunately. But I think that you bring up
the Alex Smith, you bring up the I Man, and
you bring up the Jared Goff, the path back is clear.
But I also the reason why, like again stylistically, what
he did in twenty four is important I'm moving into
twenty five is like, you know, man cannot live on
bread alone, You cannot live on downfield shots alone. You

(16:16):
can't do it if you could. Jamis Winston woun to
be making forty five million dollars. It's just they're too volatile, right,
it's you hit on them and you put up thirty points,
you miss on two, all of a sudden, you're down
by twenty.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
You've thrown a couple of interceptions.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Like we just know that in NFL passing offenses you
have to have a quick game component and Young last
year they survived without a quick game for like an
extended period of time. It is hugely to Dave Canalis's
credit that they were able to get that done. It
just we know that's not sustainable. It's one of like
the truth to NFL football. What are they able to
do in year three with a more confident Brice Young,

(16:49):
with a bit of a retool wide receiver room, with
another year off season to work on this, and a
much more confident Bryce Young. If we're ever going to
get that keystone plug back into this offense, I think
it can happen this year because the stars are are aligning.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
I gotta see it. I gotta see before I believe it.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
They have Hunter Renfro too, the big Hunter Renfro rejuvenation.
I mean, he did have this crazy illness that makes
me think if he's actually over that, that he can contribute.
But he's no lock to even make that team. I
do love that you point out the profile because I
don't think that many people watched a ton of Bryce
Young last season. And the thing that got me so excited,
but I think also is making you cautious is like

(17:25):
he was among the league leaders PFF does big time
throws that tracked with what I saw, I mean, and
that's it's one of the reasons I love Gino Smith too.
Like Bryce Young was hitting a lot of small window
throws down the field, like beautiful throws. So you saw
the arm talent, you saw a little bit more of
the escapability. But I think he's gonna need to lean

(17:46):
on that more and be confident and being able to
throw on the move and everything. But yeah, can you
do that year after year? He did a lot of
the hard stuff, which which is exciting. All Right, I'm
gonna I'm gonna go with a guy that, on one hand,
like isn't interesting in terms of like if I was
in a room with him, like he'd be low on

(18:06):
my rankings of who I would just want to hang
out with, I think for for like an hour, But
is interesting of where he's at in his career, and
that's Trevor Lawrence, I really do.

Speaker 4 (18:14):
My guess was Golf isn't sure.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
I wasn't sure which very polite but generally unexciting white man.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
We were going with that Herbert would be another one,
just because I've heard, you know, Mina did that profile
on him, and I think it helped us learn a
lot about Justin Herbert. But I don't think he's effusive
in you know, talking, and yeah, I don't know Trevor Lawrence.
I don't even find him like a fascinating player when
he's on the field. But to me, he's a fascinating

(18:40):
discussion and I think just adding Travis Hunter to this
team makes him more fascinating. And having the combination of
Travis Hunder and Brian Thomas Junior while you're leaning into
Hunter as a receiver on the same team. Look, all
of Lawrence's career, I've been a little underwhelmed, and not
just because he came into the league with so much hype,

(19:00):
but that he's just never been consistent. And that's what
I want, like someone that is a completely consistent thrower
of the football in terms of his accuracy, even his
best moments of his career, and I think maybe the
best moment is that second half come back against the Chargers. Yeah, well,
the first half of that game he throws four interceptions,
And to me, that's kind of typical of his career
if you remember last season, like the first couple of

(19:21):
weeks were rough and then he bounces back for a
little bit and it's just not there on a week
to week basis for me. And we have our friends
in the business. I'm not sure exactly where you are
on this scale, but our friend Nate Tice, who's coming
up on a big episode for us later this month,
you know, he's still got Trevor Lawrence in his top

(19:42):
ten of where he thinks he's going to be in
twenty twenty five. And I can't get there, but smart
people can. And so to me, this is a season
where he's got another great chance and he's got some
great weapons around him.

Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
So I think, like I continue to have cautious faith
and optimism in Trevor and probably above the publican census
on Trevor.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
I'm not where Nate is.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
Right if you gave me Trevor or Gino over the
last three seasons, like to me that I'm probably taking
Gino Smith for the next couple relative to Trevor, which
feels crazy. Lawrence, I'm pretty confident in saying that this
offense are about to see with Liam Cohen, with Travis Hunter,
with Brian Thomas Jr. Is about the best that he's
had available around him, right. I think that we cannot

(20:23):
discount just how much of a false start out of
the gate the Urban Meyer year was.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
From a development.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Perspective, from a leadership perspective, for your locker room confident
I can do this at the NFL level, and then
the Doug Peterson years, which, like you know, Doug doesn't
have the bad name that that Urban did. But from
a like you know, execution on field perspective, there was
a lot that was left to be desired there. So
there should be hopefully a floor raising, buttoning up experience
now with Liam Cohen, with a NFL offense a little

(20:50):
bit more cutting edge. With Lawrence, it will be learning
how to let the offense work for him. Though, Like
if Brian Thomas Junior is this guy, which like I
think by this time next year we'll be talking about
Brian Helmus Junior is like, Okay, where is he in
the top five of all NFL receivers right now, Like
I think he's like that caliber of dude. If Travis
Hunter is that guy, highest drafted receiver, if he's playing
receiver since Calvin Johnson, then let the guys work for you, right.

(21:11):
It doesn't always need to be a three second drop back.
It can be a two second drop back. It doesn't
always need to be the deep boast. It can be
the drag on third and six and he's going to
pick up the yardage for you. Lawrence has, in part
because of his upbringing, part of who he's been with
in Jacksonville, and then in part because of his play style,
has not been willing to let other players be the
elevators and kind of be the guys who lift things up.
And that's where you get some of these third down sacks,

(21:33):
these third down interceptions, right, these scrambles inus side of
the pocket. Then with these big hits and these injuries.
So he's gonna have to learn how to reduce himself
a little bit. If it is true that the pieces
around have have improved, and accordingly it's a much healthier
offensive ecosystem.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Those are all really good points, and I think the
issue I might have with Lawrence is that I'm going
a little off in tangibles in my doubt, which is
not necessarily fair that you're.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Like, that's force illustrated piece that was like this guy
might like other things.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
Can we do it?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (22:04):
So it's a tricky thing to talk about because I
hate it and I hate those sort of those sort
of reports when it doesn't feel fair. But since he's
been in the league, I have heard whispers about that
from people that have been around that team and would
have more of a place to have knowledge about it.

(22:25):
And because you do wonder, like what is stopping this
guy and all the quarterbacks at the top of the game,
Like it's almost understood that that they're absolutely maniacal in
their preparation and in their intelligence on field, and that
sometimes takes a while to get there. I don't think

(22:46):
Ben Roethlisberger, for instance, I always point him out was
that guy early in his career, and he became that guy.
And so maybe Trevor Lawrence is just a little younger
and a little further behind the developmental track. But when
I think about maybe what's gotten in the way for
him just a little bit, I think, well, maybe maybe
his off field, whether whether it's preparation or just learning

(23:07):
the game enough, and that takes being in the NFL.
Maybe that's just what's you know, prevented him from getting
ten percent fifteen percent better and being the guy.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
So we'll see.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
It's it's a very good point because again I go
back and I think to that Urban year, and I
think about how Lawrence came in as you know, the
Golden Boy, the prince that was promised ordained. He gets
a coach in Urban who's not an NFL guy, so
it's not going to like walk him in and say like, actually,
this is how we do things in the NFL. Is
the standard, Like Urban's just gonna kind of, you know,
run as Urban runs it. And then that Jaguars team

(23:37):
was never really one for impactful, long term, tenured offensive stars, right,
so they had the left tackle who'd been there for
ten years. It's not like they had the wide receiver
who's been doing it at a high level for five years.
And even now, right we're talking about Thomas Junior and
Travis Hunter, who are younger players than Lawrence. So Lawrence
hasn't really like Christian Kirk is the most I'm a vet,
I do this right at the NFL level march to

(23:58):
the beat of my drum, guy that I feel like
he's had, like there was like an actually impactful back.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
I mean they had had Morse last season.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Even his backup quarterbacks, like having mac Jones with him
or fighting against Garter Minshew who was the quarterback.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
I hear you and that, yeah, you know, I'm your
Your comment is making me think about the fact that, yeah,
like he I wonder who if you sat Laurence down
and said, who have you been your three biggest mentors
in the NFL space right now, he would say yes,
I feel like he would struggle against to three maybe
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
It's like, yeah, Cam Robinson and.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Evan Ingram, I don't know if these are the guys
that we want to be, you know, following the path
that they beat.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Right, let's take a quick break and we'll come back
with a few more interesting quarterbacks.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Back on NFL Daily.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
And yeah, if I'm going to give some pop to
our super listener Eric Jensen for helping to suggest this episode,
I might as well mentioned h he hosts the end
Zone podcast. Give him a little free plug. I was
on it like a month ago, So shout out to him.
He's a big fan of years Ben and I am
as well. And I want to hear who your next
most interesting quarterback is?

Speaker 4 (25:13):
Would you lie? So we just did Lawrence.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Would you like an ex first overall pick as Lawrence
was or was like a member of the twenty twenty
one NFL draft class as Lawrence was, helish choice.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Let's go number one overall pick?

Speaker 3 (25:26):
All right, love hanging fruit. But Caleb is very interesting
this year, Caleb Williams with the Bears. Because Caleb came out,
I would say, with equivalent, if not superior, number one
overall hype to that which Trevor Lawrence himself had when
he was coming out, like this is the guy whatever.
And then Williams had the very unfortunate luck of being
in the same class as and selected one pick before

(25:46):
a historically good rookie quarterback in Jane and Daniels. And
so the urgency feels very high on Calebly your two
what's it going to look like?

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Right?

Speaker 3 (25:54):
The addition of Ben Johnson, Oh, this is the offensive mastermind.
We were trying to get him out of Detroit for
three off seats. Since he finally takes job with the
Chicago Bears, kayleb. Williams ratchets up the urgency there. They
spent a top ten pick on Colston Lovelin passcatching tight end.
They spent another pick on a wide receiver, Luther Burden.
This a year after they spent a top ten pick
on a wide receiver.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
He's got the tools right. The urgency levers up.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
I think people over indexed how bad williams rookie season
was because Jaden daniels rookie.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
Season was so good.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
If you look at quarterbacks last year, like Caleb was
unquestionably not great thirty third and success rate thirty fee
pay per dropback thirty ninth and off target rate thirty
eighth and sack rate among the kind of forty quarterbacks,
but had enough dropbacks. If you look at first round rookies,
he was just like a lot more average than those numbers
twenty fifty, paper drop back twenty ninth and success rate.
The sack rate was still really high forty third out

(26:43):
of forty six quarterbacks, but for a rookie, he had
a predict like acceptably average, a little bit below average
season with a lot of ups, a lot of downs.
You go and you look at a team that had
three different offensive play callers that fired their head coach
in the middle of the season, and you go, okay,
like this should be recoverable, this should be fine. The
sack rays thing that really stands out, that's heavily, heavily
play style. He has to be the one to decide

(27:04):
to take your sacks, throw the ball away and or
get rid of it quicker. But I feel like Caleb's
rookie season was not as poor and as worrisome as
some people would have you believe. And then I do
think that the addition of Ben Johnson and Colson Loveland
and Luther Burden and DJ More being there roll Madoonsey
there obviously the whole change on the interior offensive line.
I do think there's a very nice high ceiling, though
the entire deck around him has been shuffled, and the
deck was really bad last time around. So I think

(27:27):
a big year two leap is not an unreasonable thing
to expect from Caleb Williams. At any time a rookie
is bad, we kind of always think it's going to
be a year two leap, and that's usually just kind
of like a little bit jumping in or guessing in
the dark stabbing in the dark this time. I really
do think there's there's enough anecdotal evidence. I think, yeah,
the production is going to get a lot better, a
lot quicker. I'm interested to see you.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
I totally agree that he was better last season than
he got credit for. It was a fine rookie season.
The fact that he had as much hype as he
did and was the number one overall pick. I still
saw enough to hold on to the situation and the
just inability to get rid of the ball even when
you know he was protected well was a problem. And

(28:06):
I think good coaching and he's falling into that this
year will really help him out. But I'm with you,
Like to me, he still had more box office moments
than I think people really recognized. Like it was kind
of awesome, like some of the things he did, especially
early in the season. So I'm excited to see him
this year as well.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
I was supposed to be five and two with a
game winning drive against Jaden Daniels in Washington, and then
Tyre Stevenson started talking to a kim Anders fan and
the entire Bear season legitimately fell off the tracks. So yeah,
like it was a lot closer to a lot more. Okay,
that wasn't as good as we thought it was gonna be,
but that was fine than people realize.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, and his strengths, Like he was too cautious, but
he really did like very Aaron Rodgers like just like
it was absolutely loath to like put a ball in
Harm's way. And that's a positive thing out out of
a young quarterback when you can mix it with some
of the arm talent that he has. Speaking of which
maybe this is the twenty twenty one guy you were
gonna say, I guess I'll go Herbo. It's time, it's funny. Okay, oh,

(29:04):
a good call. Always a huge Herbo fan. And last
year was maybe it was because of the playoff game.
I think it was the first year that he almost
got not too much credit because I think he had
a good year. But I wouldn't say I was underwhelmed,
but I don't think it went over par for what
I was hoping for for first year out of Harbaugh.

(29:26):
And I know the efficiency numbers were really good and
they really backed up the attempt. Speaking of Caleb Williams,
like I think that's going to be part of his
success this year, is is you just back up Yeah,
you're gonna lean more on the running game, and that's
gonna be it. But the playoff game was was tough,
and there was a lot of play action, not that
that's like a bad thing, and there were a lot
of big time throws. But I do think the second

(29:49):
year of Jim Harbaugh that a lot of I'm not
going to say excuse making that that Herbo Nation has
been doing myself included over the last five years, but
some of the context that we've added, I do think
a lot of that will be out the window this year.
I mostly feel good about the offensive line. I wish
they did a little more on the interior, but I
trust in the coaching staff and for the most part,

(30:11):
I think the roster's in good shape. Like the weapons
aren't amazing, but I think the continuity and what they've added,
like that's enough to feel a little bit better about
what's around him. And I just think they need to
dial the lever up on counting on him even more so.
To me, it's a big year where he came into
the league, those first two seasons, especially like you just

(30:35):
expected his career arc to be a little different, and
we've seen career arcs like this too. Like I do
think it's time for him to ramp it up and
kind of be in that conversation as one of the five,
one of the three, whatever it is, best quarterbacks and league.
I think he could do it, but I think it's
an interesting year for him to go make that happen.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Yeah, so they were I think that they what they
want to be identity wise on offense is a little
bit more important to them than it is to the
average team. And that's because Greg Roman and Jim Harbar
are pretty this is the way we're going to go
about things. Heavier personnel, we're going to be play action,
We're going to be very run heavy. And if you
go and you look back at their season last year,
they were extremely run heavy for the first like four

(31:14):
or five weeks of the season, right, super high run
rat of expectation, and like they were getting the big
JK Dobbins runs, but from a snap to snap perspective,
it wasn't working well and they kind of realized, all right,
we need to ratch up the pass a little bit more,
and then they did that. They started dropping back a
little bit more and then JK got hurt in the
middle of the year and it's now it's Gus Edwards
and they've got Hassan Haskins, the Kamani Vidal and it's like, not,
you know, Gus isn't running as well as he was. Okay,

(31:35):
we have to pass it a little bit more. I
think they had to get away from their identity in
a way that like they knew their interio, offensive line
and their running back room is not yet ready to
kind of be what they want to be as a team.
So with McKai beckon in the building, with a Marion
Hampton in the building, I think you're going to see
them go and slide back to being like one of
the run heaviest teams in football. And for Herbert, it's
going to be right, a lot of play action, a

(31:55):
lot of shot And if Trey Harris is what they
drafted him to be, and you salve ladm Conky to
be your like kind of base down, quick game underne separator,
your third and five guy, the vision is a lot
more clear to me. Such I think they'll just be
generally a lot more offensive success. However, the two baskets
with the most eggs are first round rookie running back
of Marion Hampton and second round rookie wide receiver Trey Harris.
So we are putting a lot of hope in that

(32:17):
these rookies can fill the roles we're expecting them to fill.
And so I'm always hesitant around the offensive, innovation, creativity,
and problem solving of a Greg Roman offense. I've seen
it enough times with enough really good quarterbacks with Lamar
Jackson and Baltimore that I know that they kind of march.
They get their formula and then they stick to it
even when they start needed to color outside lines a

(32:39):
little bit. And so I'm really hoping that the pieces
that they added allowed them to be in that formula.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
So I think this office could be.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Really good if they if they hit, if the if
that formula is successful, if they're not getting what they
want out of Hampton, if they're not getting the field
stretching out of Trey Harris, I think you're to see
them just kind of banging their head up against the
wall again this year.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, and the interior line like they bring in Mackay Beckton,
we'll see like well, especially in past protection. But the
combination of Makai Beckton, maybe Zion Johnson is playing center
as a salvation.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Maybe not.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Maybe it's Bradley Bosen, Maybe it's Andre James, like that,
those three starting on the interior, I don't feel amazing.
Maybe it's Jamari Sawyer is there too, Like I don't
feel amazing about all that. And part of what I
wanted to get to for me, most interesting is is
just the way the way that Herbert made me feel
so lack as a rookie. We're here in the Chris

(33:28):
Westling podcast studio and like me and Wes just talking
about just the jaw dropping plays Herbot was dropping as
a rookie. You know, he led the league an interception
rate last year, just like you know, didn't make any
mistakes basically all regular season, and then kind of collapsed
in the playoff game. I just want to see a

(33:48):
little more that that's not Herbo's nature totally, but just
a little more playmaking, a little more. Let's take some chances, devil,
make care count on all that natural gifts that he has,
and I hope he's confident enough to do that and
just make me feel about Herbal like I used to.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah, that playoff game is so tricky because man, was
it bad. And I do think that the worst draw
for the Chargers is the Texans, because I think that
Rashaun Slater and Joe all can pretty much win you
to a neutral or better against thirty one of the
thirty two pass rush duos in the NFL. And I
think the thirty second is Way Anderson and Daniel Hunter,
who just are so freaking fast, right, and then they

(34:25):
have the ability to press up on Lad McConkey, to
bother him right, to fluster him with press coverage, which
is the thing that a player that side is going
to struggle with. And all of a sudden, like everything
the Chargers wanted to do in the passing game just
wasn't there. Herbert's used to having time and being safe
off the edges and just wasn't and it imploded. And
so I don't know, I think that maybe maybe the
biggest note for the Charger in twenty twenty five is
of void Houston at all costs. It's a bad matchup

(34:48):
versus how that offense is built for how Houston's defense
is built. Houston goes wins that game, they get Baltimore
Devigo has it been Lamar Jackson in like three years?

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Right?

Speaker 5 (34:57):
Like that?

Speaker 3 (34:58):
That's their bad matchup. But that's kind of how it
goes some times with styles wicking fights.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
That's fair. All right, give me another quarterback you're looking at.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah, my twenty twenty one guy was justin fields. I
will I'll never stop being interested in justin fields.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
And I was ready to just.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Be like quietly, personally, privately interested in justin field. And
then the Jets gave him like a decently sized contract
with no quarterback competition.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
I was like, all right, I'm back to being publicly
interested in justin fields.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
The Steelers season, in which he started while Russell Wilson
at the CAF issue, was illustrative in the sense that
they did like more quick game stuff, and he was
a little bit better than the drop back than he
had been.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
He was getting the ball out a little bit sooner.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
But it was also wildly frustrating because they didn't run him,
and the whole premise find justin fields is you gotta
run him. He had six carries a game last season Leis.
Since his rookie season with the Bears, he only had
nine point eight four total scramble epa lowest of his
entire career. Thirteen percent is runs when over ten yards
lowest of his entire career. They used him as like
a short yardage, third and one fourth down guy. They

(35:55):
didn't want him breaking the pocket and creating stuff outside
of space inherently not how Justin Fields works in theory
and how we've seen him work on paper. Right that
twenty two season where he rushed for over a thousand yards,
Like people forget just how good that season one from
a rushing perspective. You have to be willing to just
let him create outside of space. And like so much
of the success of Jade and Daniels is predicated on

(36:15):
the idea that we're going to give this guy design
runs and we're going to allow him to scrip twenty
five percent scramble rate on third down Jane Daniels had last.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
Year's highest in NFL history.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
Just let him go, right, a quarterback scramble is such
a valuable play league wise by EPA perspective. And the
Steelers kept the handcuffs on him last season. The Jets
go and they gave him all this money, and you're
thinking to yourself, all right, Aaron Glenn, they're in Detroit.
You go back and you look at those games Fields
played against Glenn Stephenson Detroit, and I mean he was
averaging like eighty five yards a game, and it's because
all that man coverage, because that scrambling ability. So if

(36:46):
Glenn knows something and value something in fields, it's going
to be the tuck and run. It's going to be
the ability to put the ball in his hands and
play eleven or eleven football. I think you're going to
see that design run rate shoot back up to more
of those twenty twenty two Bears levels where he was
running nine times a game, ten times game, eleven times
a game, and I think that will benefit him offensively.
I think Garret Wilson's the best receiver he's played with
in his NFL career. I think we're going to see

(37:07):
a better looking justin field. I don't know if it's
good enough to be a long time starter. I don't
know if it's going to have to hold a job.
But I think we're seeing a better looking justin fields
in twenty twenty five. I'm excited to see it.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
I thought we said we saw one in twenty twenty
four until that Raiders game where they won it.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
But they like he like matured, but he's still wasn't
being used the right Okay, totally using the right way.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, I think I think you're right and this podcast,
I feel like we're too high on the Jets at
this point, but I've liked what they've done all off season.
I think the non Bills teams in the AFC East
are all much more equal than they are different, and
for whatever reason, people see the Jets as way lower
and I think a fields of Sants is going to

(37:44):
be part of that. It's not his last chance, but
it's probably his best chance to at least establish himself
as a guy that could be starting in Week one.
Pretty often, I do want to get through a few more,
so we'll go quick here.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
I kind of miss Dak Prescott. It just seems so weirdly.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
I feel like we haven't talked about that much this offseason.
It just seems like so long ago. He was second
in MVP, like he was literally in the twenty twenty
three season he was second in MVP and that playoff
game didn't go well. And last season I think people
just think of it as this injury season, but man,
it was a funky season. He did start half the season,

(38:22):
He played eight games, and it just never was right,
and so seeing him in this offense with George Pickens
added to the mix, without Mike McCarthy in the mix,
this sort of hybrid where I think it's going to
be mostly Brian Schottenheimer and I'm not sure how much
Clayton Adams, so they brought in from Arizona in theory

(38:43):
for the run game is really going to have a voice.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
We'll find out.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
But I do miss him, and he is still young
enough that you know, at thirty three, like it feels
like he's on the back nine. It's like Tom Brady,
not that he's going to be Tom Brady, but you
know Tom Brady and even Peyton Manning, they were just
warming up or thirty three was like the beginning of
some of their very best year.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
So I'm not ruling that out. With Dak Prescott, a guy.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Who wins from the neck up, and I'm just very
interested to see because I do think the range of
outcomes is huge. I've always been a Dak guy, but
this could go horribly or he could be back in
the MVP mix. I really don't know what to expect,
and that that's why I find him so interesting.

Speaker 4 (39:21):
Yeah, not to be two.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
You know, the Cowboys drive content, but the league is
better when Dak Prescott is good. When the Cowboys offense
is better because Dak plays such a cool, cerebral, precise,
you know, pocket passing, dice you up style of offense
that leads to some really good games against some really
good defenses against which other teams and other offenses struggle, right,
because he's pretty different stylistically than some of the other

(39:44):
quarterbacks on the other top offenses. And so yes, I
love a good Dak season. I love a We actually
have a wide receiver two question mark in George Pickens
for the first time in a while. I don't think
you can set your watch to George Pickens, but the
theory is there behind having a good wide receiver two.
I'm terrified of the running game, but maybe the officive
line is so good that it doesn't matter who's receiving
the football. So yeah, I'm I'm hoping for and I

(40:06):
think we all benefit from good death coming back.

Speaker 4 (40:08):
Its great. It's a very well taken point.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Twenty twenty three was eighteen months ago where we were
like MVP no and nowviously the forgotten man.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Right, and I was thinking about like He's had such
a strange career. He has timed and I'm not saying
this was like on purpose by him, but he has
timed his contract pushes like amazingly well, like he plays
his best right when he needed needed that money, and
that like his rookie season, you could have told me
anything was gonna happen in his career.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
He got MVP.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Votes a couple at least he was like buried, but
he got p votes in that rookie season. All right,
give me another quarterback. Let's say we got one.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
Or two left interested in Bonix for twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yees, well that was my next one.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
And I've been cast incorrectly by Broncos fans as a
Bonux hater.

Speaker 4 (40:52):
That is inaccurate. It has not been the case.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
They cast everyone in that in that bucket unless you
just like bow to them.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
What is it with you Broncos fans?

Speaker 3 (41:01):
Very very bellicost, very pugnacious group of fans. Don't know
what's in the air there in Colorado. However, I liked
Bonix a lot in the draft. Is like a game
manager type. I really wouldn't have liked taking him at
twelve overall. They took him at twelve overall, they play
him in the first month of the season. He's making
mistakes thrown in the middle of the field, he's overwhelmed
in the pocket, he's not good against pressure, and the
arms is a problem for him down the field. And

(41:22):
what do they do. They reduce his role in the offense.
Right from weeks one through eight to then the back
half of the season, he went from thrown behind line
of scrimmage twenty five percent of the time to thirty
three percent of the time. His aery yard dropped seven
point nine to six point six, time to throw drop
three point one to two point nine. They said, Hey,
a little bit more pointing, a little bit more shooting,
and especially like kind of in the zero to ten
yard or really the negative five to ten yard area

(41:44):
of the field. We're going to kind of minimize how
much decision making we want you to have and how
many opportunities want do you have to push the ball.
That really helped the offense and you saw us as
confidence grow. You think about that Bengals game at the
end of the season, right there were returns to the
intermediate stuff, return of the down stuff that was better
than the first time around, because he was just a
lot more confident because the offense was a little bit
more balanced, and they they had defenses in a bind.

(42:06):
If there's going to be a year two jump, it's
not going to because they're taking more things off his plate.
It's going to because they're putting some stuff back on there.
And in year two and you know, full NFL offseason
or whatever, it's reasonable to expect that he's more comfortable
with that than he was last season.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
So I'm hoping for Bo Nicks being more than the
game manager that I thought he would be.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
I thought for last year was a very good proof
of concept that hey, he can point and shoot for
the Champagne offense. Your tube are going to learn if
he can be anything beyond that.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah, And he was in effective throw down the field.
And that's where like the Breeze comparisons don't totally make sense.
But winning with Sean Payton in a highly disciplined timing
offense where the timing and the accuracy kind of overcome
any physical limitations, that is a similarity that I think
Nicks has with Breeze. The difference in Knicks's rookie year

(42:52):
was just that he he never really got over crumbling
under pressure, but he is playing behind one of the
better offensive lines in the league and one of the
the better coached offensive lines in league. Shout out to
Sean Payton, who just he knows how to find not
only the right offensive lineman and the right scheme, but
like the right offensive line coach. I think it's Zach Streef,
like he just brings them in and they're just they're

(43:13):
just a great unit. And I think it's the Broncos fans.
It's a combination of I feel like the every off season.
I think the Bears are very similar. They have like
the most positive local coverage and so you just believe
it every single season. And it hadn't been going felt
well for a while, but last time it actually did

(43:35):
go well and it was happening yeah, and so then
they can just stick it in all the haters' faces.
But I gotta admit like hearing Sean Payton's confidence and
everyone in that building's confidence. I don't know if they're
just speaking into an existence, but man, they talk about
bo Nicks like, all right, we've got our top ten
quarterback forever, and just the way Sean Payton in this
team has just been leading with their chess out all

(43:55):
off season. Does make me like worried about being wrong
about them.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
But that's I'm always thing where it's like watch the film,
you know, look through the information. You know, Champagne's telling
you what he believes about Bonex on a microphone, and
then he's telling you what he believes about Bonex in
terms of how he's calling plays. And we walked out
of of the bye week I want to say it
was week ten or something like that, and we're just
throwing every single swing screen of Marvin Mims that we
can dream up, and that's telling you something about his quarterback.

(44:19):
Where his offense is at now, Rgie, Harvey, Pat Bryant.
They've added some pieces and again your two Bonex. I
think it's reasonable to expect him to get it more
on his plate. But Champagne told you what he thought
about Bonex and his rookie year. He might have ideas
for him year two, year three, but he told you
what he thought about him.

Speaker 4 (44:32):
He really did.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Yeah, in the argument for Knicks certainly is yeah, he
came into the league with with like a lot of experience,
but he is a quarterback who along with his coach,
is going to take all the information that they got
from last year and really could be a much more
consistent quarterback this season, focusing in on his strength. And
there is absolutely a path to him being like a

(44:54):
top twelve type of quarterback this year, which is wild
and proving us all wrong. And they've already gotten pretty
far along that path. All Right, I'm gonna pick one
more guy I could. We've talked Penix a lot on
this off season, so I'm not going to us.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
Has done JJ or Pennix, So I feel like the conversation.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
I think part of that is just though that I've
talked about them a lot, and I thought this would
be a good exercise to like talk about some guys
we haven't as much on this show, like Joe Burrow,
who to me made a major step up. Is another
uh option of like the top guys that I find
very interesting. Jordan love Is is so box office and
so up and down. He's interesting. This is a long

(45:31):
way of me, you know, just giving him some honorable
mentions before talking about Kyler Murray because I'm I'm just
endlessly fascinated about his career and the year two step
up in this system didn't really happen. I always think
like he doesn't necessarily and I think about him and
Trevor Lawrence similarly. He doesn't always necessarily have the natural

(45:55):
feel of like what levers to pull and what buttons
to like you turn up and in a given game
in terms of what he's seen in everything, and so
that might always hold him back. And even at the
end of last year saying I got to run more.
I got he's been dialing back. I got to run more.
I don't need to run as much like his whole career,
and so that natural feel, I don't know if you
can fix that. But it's year three in this offense.

(46:19):
It's good weapons around him. I like the coaching staff overall,
and I think it's go time. I do think they've
had so much faith in him. This is a year
for him to really deliver on that faith in a
more consistent level. Or I think he's going to be
on the trade block next year because he's obviously a
good enough NFL quarterback. He is absolutely a talented starting

(46:41):
NFL quarterback. But I do think this organization might think
after this year, if there's no progress, that like, let's
see what we can get for him. I do think
he's kind of entering that season.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
And if you were, if you are John Gannon, this
would be year three for you. If you are Monty
asp for as the year three for you. And you
finish end of the season, you're nine to eight, you
missed the playoffs. Then you start saying to yourself, do
I make a Kyler Murray move so as to keep
my seat for the next couple of years? Right, And like,
you know, try to know there they Carl's gonna make
playoffs this year, right, like for Kyler, for Dan and
for Monty. If you want to, like, you know, keep

(47:10):
this nucleus in place. You have the top ten pick
a wide receiver, Marvin Harrison. You have the top ten
pick a tackle, Baris Johnson. Like this is it is
how it's supposed to be built. Like let's let's let's
get some fruit for our effort here, right, let's reap
what we've sown now.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
And so I agree, I think Kyler is good enough.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
But I also do think right stylistically, you play Kyler's
way or the highway, and that has been a challenge
for the Cardinals to coach around. Has been the challenge
for the Cardinals weapons to work with over the course
of the last couple of years. You just go watch
you some Marvin Harrison back shoulder balls. You just get
a sense of Kyler's unwillingness to kind of throw some
of these contested balls and his difficulty seeing these routes
open up. And it's like, all right, like there is there.

(47:48):
It feels like there's a ceiling on a Kyler Murray offense.
I would love to see that ceiling broken. It feels
like they have the weapons and the offensive mines to
do so. But let's say, hey, you got to see
it before you believe.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
It, right, He's someone that like if you just dropped them.
I guess you could say this about a life quarterbacks,
but if you could drop him in Philadelphia or something,
so like, I would just love to see that you
or or a different offense. But he doesn't have that.
And I mentioned that I like the weapons, but that
assumes a pretty big jump from Marvin Harrison to really

(48:16):
be that like co Number one with Trey McBride, who
I kind of see as like the fulcrum of this offense,
and then the other guys like Torch and Michael Wilson
kind of fall into places as a supplementary. Guys, you're
you're a lead guy, Ben Sole, Like, what do you
got coming up this offseason? You're I know, during the season,
you're writing. You're on weekly on the Meta Coimes Show

(48:37):
featuring Lenny Tough that he gets billing above you, but
you know he.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Is as featuring Benny and there was a typo on
the on the on the on the graphics. But yeah,
I'm not. We're writing during the off seasons per usual.
I have the the ultimate NFL draft coming out, I
want to say next week, which is the best pick
at all picks picks one. Oh yeah, so we got
we got the good goof off season content coming out.
The training camp stories will start coming out pretty soon.

(49:03):
So you know, if you're reading NFL content in July,
which you should not be, but.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
If you are, you should be. You should be. I
love that sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
And I love when when Ben pops up with his
uh his big fishing pictures, because you know, maybe he's
not the biggest quarterback around, but he's a real man
just catching big old fish right here.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
It's very it's very good. It's it's a nice, solid
that gives you a decent amount of shade.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
That is a preposterous prop.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Everyone check it out on the YouTube show like subscribe
and then comment about that fishing hat.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Thank you Ben, Thank Greg.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
All right, thank you to Ben, and uh, thanks to
everyone basically that has been listening over the last year
since we dropped this NFL Daily. I'm going to bring
in my producer here, Eric Roberts. Uh, you've been working
double time over time to deliver the listeners some good
content in this dead time. We have the top twenty

(50:03):
five players of the last twenty five years. I know
you and Gavin and Chris Babona have been doing like
double the amount of episodes over the last few weeks.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
So tell me what you think.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Give me the pitch for top twenty five players of
the last twenty five years.

Speaker 5 (50:19):
It's one. I want you to listen to it. It's
gonna be six episodes, yeah, you know, four at a time,
five at a time, third of time as we work
our way to the final you know, crescendo of a
year of NFL Daily. Yes, it was a great project,
fun stuff to look back on. Chris who has took
this project by the horns a younger guy. It was

(50:40):
fun to like go back through the NFL aughts with him, Yes,
and it was cool to look back. I mean, I'm
not trying to give away any.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Of the players, you know, you know, it's fine, It's fine,
you can give away some. So that's going to be
starting on Monday. Mina Kimes is our first episode and
Steve Weisch is going to be our second. We have
Brian Baldinger, we have Nate Bill Barnwall. Kevin Harlan did
an episode that was really exciting. So it's like some

(51:06):
of my favorite football minds and I love this stuff
and I thought it would be a fun way to
look back on this century. I've been covering the NFL
since two thousand and three, so basically that this whole
time and think about the very best of the best
and put them in order. And oh, by the way,
also give us a little bit of a break. Eric,

(51:30):
we're putting this up and I'm as excited about these
episodes as any that we've done over the last year.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
So it's not really a break for the listener.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
But we started July ninth, I believe, for NFL Daily,
and we've been cranking since you've been keeping track, like
how many episodes? Yes, so we've done two hundred and
fifty two episodes of NFL Daily in one calendar year. Basically,
I know those top twenty fives will kind of extend
past the calendar year marks.

Speaker 5 (51:57):
Okay, but everything has been recorded. Two hundred and fifty
two episodes, recaps, Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays, previews. Two hundred and
fifty two episodes in one calendar year.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Not quite daily. I know it's in the title. I
know you love the daily part of our all that
show title. Well, we got the weekends.

Speaker 5 (52:13):
Yeah, but that's a lot of football in one calendar.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Yeah, we got the weekends. We weren't counting the weekends.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
And frankly, once the season starts, we're doing about six
episodes a week, and we will let you know. We
have some really exciting announcements about what we're doing for
the twenty twenty five regular season that that's coming. All
your favorite people, of course, Patrick Claybahn and Steve Weiss
and Jordan Rodrieg and Colleen Wolf and Nick Shook, everyone

(52:41):
is going to be back and we're cranking up the
content and we will be back doing daily episodes responding
on the news of the day starting July twenty first,
but we'll have some of these twenty five players in
twenty five years episodes in the meantime, and Jordan might
pop into the feed too while I am over in Japan.
I just wanted to say thanks to you, Eric for

(53:05):
doing everything over this last year, and to Chris and
Gavin too, assisting of course Randy Schavez, who's no longer
working because he moved on to a great job. And
more than anything, thanks to the listeners for listening.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
So it's not.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Goodbye because I'll be in the feed, but it really
has meant like everything to me and my family. Everything
that happened transitioning from around the NFL to this NFL
daily like it was absolutely difficult and exciting and everything,
and to get through this one year has been awesome,
and I just wanted to thank everyone that's been listening

(53:40):
and watching.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Just all the best. So yeah, we will be.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Back on Monday. And that's the mean of Kimes episode. Well,
we got some controversial picks here. Not sure how Chiefs fans,
Ravens fans, how everyone's going to feel about it. So unfortunately,
football is not back but NFL daily is always to
be back in your feet and see in a few minutes.

Speaker 5 (54:05):
Mm hmm